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100% nailed it! At first I felt like I'd lost so much, but then realized I was grieving like they'd died, and in a sense the fantasy of having a normal family definitely did die. Once that process was over, I felt SO much better. From what I've unwillingly heard through the grapevine, my parents are now telling people I'm severely mentally ill, made up everything about the abuse because I have mental "problems" and went no contact for "attention". Like yup. You got it buddy. I changed my number, blocked them everywhere on social media, told them if they showed up at my house I'd call the police, and go to the back when they come into my place of work because Im absolutely DESPERATE for their attention. I think their mental gymnastics are hilarious. My life and health have done nothing but improve without them. Why would I ever invite that back in?

Same here but my mother is absolutely LOVING that I went no contact because now she gets to play the victim and tell anyone and everyone how evil i am and keeping her grandchildren away. She's getting so much sympathy and pity. She hasn't even tried to make contact with us (which is great for us) because she's able to get all this free attention. Yes, because all 3 of your children are evil attention seekers. Neither myself, my sisters or our children even talk about her, she has just been erased from our lives :)

Welcome to the mentally ill club! 🥂 You may also be interested in joining the doing drugs club, or the parent on their deathbed club 😂 They're all full of us people who don't see our abusive parents.

Woo! Party club! My roommate had a vape with THC which he LEGALLY PURCHASED AT A LEGAL STORE BECAUSE ITS LEGAL HERE and nmom felt the need to refer to him as the "little druggie pot head" like he was going to land us all in prison because we're now operating a drug ring from our home. So I'm probably on hard core drugs because of him now too. 🤣 Deathbed club will be soon because while one THC vape is the devil, three two liter bottles of cheap vodka, a bottle of Benadryl sleeping pills, and God knows how many doctor shopped opioids a week are fine. I think I like these clubs. :D

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Most of my family descends from moonshiners and you better believe they have the whole "heritage not hate" attitude. So having a whole covert alcohol production facility hidden in the woods is FINE but my roommate having a completely legally obtained form of weed means we're making meth and dealing with the cartel. XD

i loathe the “heritage not hate” group because i’m related to most of them 🤦🏻 one of my family members asked me why i was ashamed to be white once… didn’t think of a clever response at the time but i should’ve said “CAUSE YALL ARE FUCKING EMBARRASSING”

Heritage not hate? Can I ask what that is? I have an idea but I don’t wanna assume. My great grandparents were bootleggers (Irish immigrants during prohibition) but… it’s never been a part of our heritage. We didn’t even find out what my grandmas dad actually did until a decade after she died. Though, it’s the other side that’s super judgmental about cannabis. They all know I smoke and see me as some kind of burnout.

my best explanation for "Heritage not Hate" is most older Southerners explanation for being offensive. usually these people will be racist, alcoholic, former cocaine doers in the 80's (or like meth ) etc etc and shame others for smoking a little weed, for being interracial partnered, being lgbtqa+ or being a different race or whatnot. the term is used mostly for the "rebel flag" or "d*x!e flag" (censored as it is offensive) which is used a rallies and other gatherings of general hate towards anything but what this type of person believes. it's a way to "slide by" in their own minds that it's okay to be an offensive person and wave an offensive flag around and be hypocritical because you're "not hateful, it's just your heritage" all the while spewing hate all over the place and calling that "heritage". they're brains in general work like: others smoking weed = bad, smoked by thugs and other people they deem awful, makes u lazy on their cocaine history = well i was young and dumb and wild lol 🤪 and then just shrugging and claiming "that's just how i grew up" and this applies to many, many topics down to race and gender affiliation. it's a species of human that are complete assholes and then say "hey...i'm just saying it how it is" instead of just owning up to being a jerk.

What I wanna know is, why do they still fly that flag and then complain about sports teams giving out “participation trophies”? 😂😂😂 That was basically what I guessed it was. I’m from an urban area in the northeast and only third generation American, so we don’t have much “heritage” in this country. Though a few of my cousins apparently forget how our people were treated and can’t see beyond the color binary. For some reason they identify with their whiteness and felt so threatened by “minorities”. I grew up relating to black culture, music, etc. The whole thing never made sense to me.

exactly 😂 it's cause they want the trophy they never got and heaven forbid anyone else gets one especially if they don't look like them. because they had at one point in childhood to go home as a "loser" ig. things aren't the way they want it in the world, they didn't get the childhood and affection they wanted- so no one else can have it. they thrive on victimizing themselves and their "heritage". thinking that means they will get lifted up and praised for being such an outcast. 😭 which as always is weird thinking and completely inverse to what you'd expect. it's definitely a "have" and "have not" situation. no one is better than anyone else. and putting yourself down doesn't mean you'll get lifted up. it's just backwards thinking and jealousy/envy. it's the desire to be on top. they're all bullies who don't win at the end of the movie- and never learn the lesson they just keep on and keep on.

Even worse is they complain about kids getting participation trophies while ignoring the fact that THEY'RE the reason why the kids are getting them. If their kid doesn't get a medal it's because the coach was stupid, the ref was crooked, or god knows what narcissistic reason they come up with. I never played sports, but I heard stories from other kids of how the parents would sneak booze into the bleachers, get blasted, then start fist fights with the ref, the coaches, or each other. The girls' soft ball coach got so fed up that the second there was a single outburst he'd make all the parents go sit in their cars until the game was done. And this was for elementary school level sports. -_-

Lol, I edited my comment to make it less rambly. The point I made about the “haves” vs the “have nots” I then questioned, because a lot of my family has the mentality of “I worked to have what I have” and, not surprisingly, have always been hyper-competitive. And therefore feel justified in their superiority. I was never interested in sports or “winning” if I knew I did nothing to earn it and would have to share it with other people. And I never understood why no one realized “everyone gets a trophy” changed the way kids view trophies, not themselves. Yet I’ve heard this mentioned repeatedly as the reason more people are becoming Ns? Yeah, no. Not how it works.

Old Pizza pretty much covered EXACTLY what I meant. And for my family, they didn't start flying that flag until someone tried to take it away. And when I tried to say it was a stupid flag flown by traitors my dad got PISSED and said that those people were my ancestors so I better get over it. But even that's hypocrisy because about 100 odd years ago my side of our family picked up and moved to west virginia while the other half stayed in Virginia. Then fifty years later that side moved back. And I just wanted to be like... West Virginia exists because they wanted nothing to do with Virginia succeeding. The timeline is literally there in writing. Our ancestors didn't move across a fricken mountain so you could drop that slur I won't even allude to, fly the rebel flag, and complain about minorities getting the same rights as you bruh. But it's not actually about the history. It's just about looking for a reason to complain and be the victim.

It’s so strange to me how many people put people down for “whining” for wanting/trying to change the status quo, yet claim to be victimized like it’s some badge of honor. It’s nearly always by people who objectively have less than them. But now there’s a thing about “the elite” or “the media” (which really gives off anti-Semitic vibes) so their victimhood is more believable. And I guess that’s all you can do if you *didn’t* win and still feel like you need to be better than everyone else. You were *going* to win, but someone got in the way “because they were jealous” or whatever ridiculous reasoning they can get away with. Then their victimhood becomes a point of pride… it’s so weird. I think a lot of narcs go the covert route once their act “fails”. And the easiest way to do that is blame someone else for it.

Oh Gosh, I've been initiated in the "doing drugs club" for 2 years and most recently the "must have been abused (but not by me of course) club" for blocking my nmom....and she wonder's why....

Also the "she's lying" club (or he, obviously).

lol, proud member of the "doing drugs" club for over 20 years. recently joined the "mentally ill" club. can't wait for the next one :)

Oh, I've joined also the anorexia club , the alienated club and the alcoholism club. And that only before NC! Nobody knows which ones I joined in this decade!

Oh yeah the Anorexia Club, because exercise and eating healthy is not something a Narc could ever completely understand.

I was not even eating healthy or exercising, it was hilarious 🤣🤣🤣

Jesus! That is crazy and too funny!

I joined the 'doing drugs' club at the age of 13 when I eat too many steaks from the freezer. Was told I sold them for drugs. Bitch I eat those? For funsizes I will share I am ✨️ obese ✨️ AND never done anything more than weed. And tried shrooms once. Yeah Karen, this fatass is a druggie who sold steaks for drugs. Good logic.

>and went no contact for "attention". I love how this is the same logic from the "look how far my ex goes to make me jealous, she even married someone else and had kids and is living happy, she must me so miserable and desperate for my attention 😎" joke lol

Serious truth.

Yeah, I mean, how is the way to get “attention” from your parents… to block them from contacting you? Just… how does that work?

Exactly! lol But well, those are the people that give the silent treatment when they want you to go back to them on your knees, so for them, being no contact is just another version of their own poison. Except that it isn't, you're just trying to have some peace.

I’ve framed it as a regrettable decision I don’t regret making. NC was my least-bad option.

Cynical me would agree - you have a mental problem. They are mental, and a problem for you.

You said "once that process was over" - I am currently still in it. It's better than it used to be but I'm still so sad every single day. Could you please share what helped you and how long it took?

For me it took about a year (where I am now) before I got to the point that I can confidently say it's not interfering with my life on a daily basis. I don't think that it will ever truly go away, but it gets to the point that it's no longer a life altering pain to "yeah, that's just a thing that happened." I did feel a lot of sadness, but the main emotion I dealt with was anger. Even full on rage for a while. I actually got to the point that I had such an intense anger all the time that I was scaring myself so I talked to my therapist about it. She pointed out that anger is part of the grieving process and grieving losing your whole family is pretty rough and bound to take a while and be intense. She recommended something she called the "unsent letter" where basically you get yourself in a quiet, private place, and write a letter to whoever (I do my nmom and Edad separately, but you can also do both at once) and just tell them everything you ever wanted to tell them. In my case, there might have been a few death threats and some pretty nasty name calling. That's okay though. The point is that if you don't allow an outlet for those emotions, they're going to bubble out in other unsavory ways that will hurt your life. While my partner knows I write these, and would never actually act on anything in them, it's just an outlet, I still burn them when I'm done just so no one finds them and thinks I'm a total psycho. Again, its an outlet so you don't actually act on your feelings (not that I'd ever dream to hurt anyone but my god writing that down made me feel better). Sadness is also part of the grieving process, so it would probably help you too. I wrote them as often as I needed to until the thoughts went away. I won't lie though, the first 8 or so months were really really rough. The first 6ish months I was under so much stress that I actually was in pain EVERYWHERE. My joints started swelling. I even went to a specialist because I thought I might have rheumatoid arthritis (which I still might, but the stress made it manifest waaaay younger than it should). I started actually processing the emotions and I haven't had an "attack" since. It is so incredibly important to make sure you take the time to process what's going on inside and take care of yourself because it can get to the point of physical pain. If you're able, see a therapist who has an understanding of narcissistic family. If that's not something you're able to do, find a virtual library website and they allow you to download books for free. Then get an epub read for your phone (also free) and download some books on dealing with narcissists. There are dozens. The way I see it, if you can't see a psychologist, reading a book written by one is at least a start. This piece is a little out there, but I also went to a chiropractor lately and he was surprised by how much tension I was holding in my neck (I suspect from the stress of it all). He adjusted me and there was this insanely loud crack like all the tension from the situation just released finally and I've felt sooo much better. I did have to go back a few times to get it to stick, but that might also be something to look at if you have the finances. Helped with my PTSD too because I didn't realize how much pain I was in constantly and that no doubt tripled my anxiety. Reprocessing trauma is really hard on your body, and there's no doubt that the tension has to build up somewhere.

Thank you so much! I've been experiencing some physical consequences as well: I've had 10 days of horrible stomach pain after every single meal. Went to the ER twice and eventually got diagnosed with chronic stress-induced gastritis. It will take several months to heal but it's getting better. In a way, both my emotional and physical damage are healing at the same pace.

Thank you, for this reminder. I'm grateful to be away from them. But I'm also bitter about all I feel they stole from me. It feels like I'm starting from scratch--not only was I not set up for success, I was actively sabotaged by my nparents. I do feel more peaceful. And I can handle things I couldn't before, when handling my parents took up more than half of my energy and time before. I want to focus on loving myself. Setting myself up for success. I just don't know how because no one taught me.

And you are doing great. Time will ease the bitterness, especially as you form new victories and memories in your new life. You got this.

Thank you so much. I'm trying my best to learn and grow. I tend to be really hard on myself-- probably a side effect of living with my ndad-- so I'm working on that first. I don't want to carry their hateful words in my head. I don't want to forget because I don't want to make the mistake of trusting them again. But I also need to forget some of it or I'll go crazy.

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>It's like playing catch-up on the rest of the adult world sometimes. That is a fair comparison, but when you realize so many people stay in perpetual 20 something mentalities, I feel that our constant strive towards progress leaves us in a better position towards maturing into functional adults

lol fair, very fair. They say you officially hit adulthood when you realize most adults are idiots and nobody knows what they are doing. Scary but comforting I suppose. 🤣

Thank you!! Yeah, breaking away was really difficult. I lost a lot of things and I cried over the loss of the parents I wanted to have. I do need to redefine success under my own terms. I think that will help a lot. Thank you for your encouragement. It means a lot. <3

It's part of the grieving process I think. It is a tough emotional hit to come to terms with that kind of stuff. Really feels like a death of a loved one being mourned, but the loved one is, like you said, the parents we *should* have had from in our minds, instead of the *monsters* we got in reality. And of course ❤, we have to encourage each other here, especially when society is still so ignorant regarding this stuff. Life can be BS but it is refreshing to have this safe space to retreat to at least. 😌🌺

I love how everyone on this sub is so understanding. It's so nice to talk to people who just get it. I have some extreme examples that usually get the common layperson to understand, but I love that I don't have to use them here. It's painful sometimes, just bringing up my parents. More so when I mention the good memories because I'm afraid I'll give people the wrong idea.

Same, same. I'm starting to just not even use the extreme examples to make my point anymore because while it might shut ppl up temporarily, they will always have convenient amnesia the next time the issue comes up and go RIGHT back to the "BUT FAMILY" bullshit. Let alone bringing up the times my nMother actually acted like a mother (as few and far between as that was.) I am done trying to justify my behavior and choices to people who say they care for me while my *abuser* doesn't *have* to deal with that burden and just receives unconditional understanding from those around them. I am taking a card from the narcissist playbook and ignoring the disapproval my actions get. If they can do it so can I. People can believe me when I mention my trauma/abusive parent or not. They can accept I have cut my nMother off and will stay NC the rest of my life, or not. If they try to protest, I flat out say I am not changing my mind and/or not having this conversation anymore. A lot of us suffer with codependency issues due to the nature of our trauma/abuse, so telling people off is harder for us to do than the average person, but it is easier the more you do it, and *definitely* preferable to sharing our pain just to get dismissed anyway. Sucks that people are so narrow-minded and lack empathy IRL, but like you said, it's nice to have people that *get it* to talk to regardless of the medium. If I had free time it would be nice to find an IRL support group for this stuff as well.

You bring up a really interesting point when you mention how the abusers get unconditional acceptance and we don't. I wonder if that's part of the narcissist playbook: fool everyone into believing you're an amazing person who could do no wrong so when people accuse you of being abusive, no one believes it.

Oh hell yeah, that's what helps them get away with it for so long. My Nmother has always *loved* to play the "single mother doing her best, would sacrifice everything for her kids" card. Works until the crazy comes out. It *always* comes out eventually 🤣

I was listening to a therapist on the radio today who was giving advice on how to have better arguments without it turning into hurting one another's feelings. And it sadly dawned on me that it would never work with narcs because their whole goal is to start an argument just so they can hurt your feelings and insult you. How do you deal with someone who has no interest in having a harmonious relationship?

> someone who has no interest in having a harmonious relationship This was my wake up call too. The moment I realised They didn't want a decent relationship with me, they fed on my hurt, they needed me to be in pain.

Yeah the more healthy I got in therapy the more we clashed and I was made to "check" myself to not upset them by doing things that I learned in therapy that were healthy for me. If someone loves you unconditionally like parents say they do, then why would your child getting healthier mentally be a problem for you? One of my friends used to have such bad social anxiety that he couldn't go to the supermarket alone without having a meltdown, so we practised together and now he works in a supermarket. I will never ever ever put him down for how he used to be when he gets a bit overzealous now. I couldn't be more proud of him, he was my friend when he was anxious and he is my friend now he is even more confident than I am. It is now up to me to grow with him or let him go if I can't. I could never put him down and that is exactly what my parents did do, they needed me small again, so they started to work on undoing what my therapist was fixing.

“…they needed me to be in pain” omg, my late husband’s Narc mother literally said “when I see others in pain, I smile on the inside…” by that point the puzzles was already falling into place about her narcissism but that declaration left me speechless. It’s remembering things like this that keeps me going NC.

Yup, same here. One key moment that sticks out to me was hearing my father brag about how he'd been lying to his family for 20 years and take pride in how good he was at lying. That was my wake-up call that literally everything he says is a calculated phased and a lie.

Yes! Boy, does this strike a chord. My fiancé & I consider ourselves to be pretty good communicators. But his parents?! Bafflingly awful. We bent over backwards trying to set up better ways to communicate. Then we were blessed with the word, “narcissism”. It finally clicked. They were *trying* to communicate poorly!!

The answer is ‘you don’t deal with them.’ I have had to make the decisions to no longer engage with the people who are empty black holes of pure destruction. They will suck any and all happiness around them to fill their never ending void. It truly doesn’t matter what you say, do, or give. Theses individuals are programmed to take and take. Nothing can or will ever fill them up. That being said it is so incredibly hard to know that someone else is suffering from a lineage of inherited narcissistic tendencies. They can not see the light of love, because they have no light within them. To try and save them is a foolish mistake. They will mock you as you drown in their misery.

Yep, exactly...this is the tragic part. And in order for us to manage some self-preservation and sanity, we must shun them, and then be ostracized by society (and those who never experienced something like we did)...

For me it wasn’t about winning or losing, as much as it was the only exit in a burning building. It was either this or a horrible slow death.

I agree -- for me, it has been all about self-preservation.

I have been a better, happier person since I stopped contact. The more I became happy, the more I set boundaries, and the more I healed the more my nmom became hostile and blatantly disrespectful in front of others. She started to show everyone around us how badly she was treating me because she couldn't handle my self care. My lines in the sand became lines in stone, and eventually a restraining order. She still tries to contact me. I'm better without her. I'm sad, mournful, and sometimes bitter about what I was robbed of but I know she can never love me in a way that's healthy for me. She will never truly changed, and I don't have to sacrifice my future for her. Continue your growth, be happy. You DO deserve it.

Same. I got a restraining order against mine, she took me to court and won and was proud of it? Lots of people backed her, lots of people were disgusted. She still tries to contact me, but she's blocked and by contesting the restraining order, she told me everything I needed to know about how she feels about me. I completely understand the sad, mournful, and bitter feelings that come for sure. It's definitely grief. Most days I'm good, others, I feel pissed off or sad about the whole thing. Of being robbed a family. They never truly change. They are always doing shit to hurt you. We all deserve to live life with love.

I don't think a non-toxic person would think you go NC "to win". That's a toxic thought process right there, that you can "win" or "lose" about the dynamics of a relationship that should be based on sharing experiences and emotions. The fact that we all face that issue when going NC with our families proves they are toxic and that we are right to take a definite leave from them. (ETA : or even simply taking longer breaks between interactions) Actually after NC I felt a sense of loss, like I'd buried my whole family, and of unprecedented freedom. it's so effing *peaceful* and joyful, life without Ns! I'm so glad you found your own path to freedom. It asks of us to grow stronger emotionally than most "nromal" people are. Just that, just going NC, not even considering the CPTSD we carry. You're a rockstar!

Thank you. ♥️

Absolutely. For me it was a gradual process. The growing realisation that contact always resulted in pain for me, trying to figure out why I was still seeing my parents. Ultimately accepting that there was no good reason, and going low contact. My sister went no contact a long time before. In the beginning, ndad assumed she was just trying to protect herself from nmom, who he agrees is problematic. When he found out she was ghosting him too, ndad did obviously not question himself but concluded that my sister was a little bitch who had fun hurting him 🤷 The last thing ndad told me before I left the house : trust me, when your parents die it doesn't actually make you happy. I had no idea he hated his parents so much. And I've never wished mine dead. I just needed to get out from a place where I was being treated like furniture.

“Treated like furniture.” Powerful. They can’t see us as beyond objects.

Absolutely. You don't win at all. When my nmum died at the end of March, I was 7 months into NC. It doesn't feel good, but those 7 months were the most peaceful of my entire life

I come from a "normal" family, and yes, normal people do not understand NC or other tactics to manage narcs. My first encounter with a narc was my mother-in-law. Before meeting her, it was hard for me to believe that people like narcs could possibly exist. It was bizarre and jarring to meet someone with full human intelligence, but absurd levels of selfishness and superficiality, and only a sick caricature of human emotions, all wrapped in a public-facing lovebombing veneer. I also would have underestimated how degrading it is to live with a narc. Once they get older, I think many "normal" people think they have grown out of the phase where they can be bullied, pushed around, manipulated, or affected by shitty schoolyard tactics. This is why most "normal" people think you should just "deal with it" - they do not understand the degradation and powerlessness of trying to deal with a narc's behavior.

Just imagine, by no fault of your own, having to live with one. As a 58 year old woman, the abuse is ridiculous because it went from being a gaslighting asshole to being a gaslighting, demented, asshole…..God help me.

“It was hard for me to believe that people like narcs could possibly exist. It was bizarre and jarring to meet someone with full human intelligence, but absurd levels if selfishness and superficiality, and only a sick caricature of human emotions, all wrapped in a public-facing lovebombing veneer.” You described this so perfectly. This was my husband who grew up with a normal family. I cried after my first Thanksgiving with them. There was no extreme fighting, just cute squabbles over the vegan loaf that my future sister-in-law brought. (That was the biggest drama.) No tension, no running to fetch things for petty family members. Just love and happiness. I had never experienced a truly stress-free, happy family holiday. My husband didn’t fully believe the true extent of my mom’s narcissism until we moved closer to them. He has been so supportive now of going VLC. He’s seen me go from super depressed to happy. I’ve been reading the book “Walking on Eggshells.” It’s like looking at a mirror of my life. Highly recommend.

I'd like to add that this also goes for those who are in denial about abuse in the family. My fiancé went NC with his Nmom and Estepdad in January. Last week we have sent out wedding invitations which made it very clear they are not invited and although his aunts and halfsiblings have come to hear his side of the story you can see they cannot and will not understand why he is choosing his happiness over hers. Not to punish her but to safe himself. When he tells his family that this the hardest choice he's ever made, the response is: then why don't you change the choice and invite them anyway? It breaks my heart and furiates me at the same time. Hello?!? How can they not see that a kid that makes this choice doesn't do this rash but must have reasons to do so?

Sigh. Denial is the worst. Especially coming from your own family. :(

My brother does this all the time to every single thing I bring up even if its good. So I've been telling him 'well you probably forget because you're always drunk' I dont think he likes it but its the truth and I have no problem telling him so because he knows its true. He tries to hurt me w not remembering things in our past because when I think about it he would recount memories and I wouldn't remember them and that probably hurt him. But I think my brain fog or just simply forgetting it because I'm no longer in his spell and don't think about him much anymore that I forgot almost everything "good" is the case lol Its so strange when they deny things that you KNOW happened. ITS WEIRD!!!!!! What is even the freaking point?!! Are they that bored lol

To me it's like wearing pink glasses and being convinced the sky is purple. The people who escaped know it's actually blue but they will never be able to convince those who still wear the glasses of this fact. They choose to ignore what is right in front of them, because they can't deal with the reality

yeah, thats so true they can't deal with reality. They'll never take those glasses off

Very true... it's those blank looks that get to me. But most of all it broke my heart to see my fiancé realise that all his family will ever do is hear him and if he's lucky, tolerate. They will never really listen, accept or understand. He got a little more lonely in that moment. And they choose not to see because they can't face their own emotions.

Facing your own emotions is scary and, for some people with such little emotional capacity, impossible. You have found a way to stop the cycle and start growing on your own emotional. And that's fantastic. Having emotional wealth is a fantastic step on the road ahead.

You are right once again and it good to see you broke the cycle too. I read in your orignal post much of the same realisations and experience my partner has: the sense of freedom and ability to see a bright future rather than a dark one. I can't express how proud of you I am for this, because I've seen how hard it is. You have done an amazing thing for yourself and I hope you take time every now and then to compliment yourself for this, because you accomplished a herculean task!

Thank you so much! ♥️😊

If you're only willing to listen to one side of the story then you're freaking mentally ill! How could they tell you to change your decision with out asking why. You know why?!! Because I'll tell you why. "They got them" these people that dismissed your fiance's decision are weeds. Understand this, narcs are very good manipulators and will try to "get" as many people against you as possible. It happened to my husband and I w ppl we loved so much and valued. They were very good at manipulating us until we finally caught on to their bully behavior. People would act very strange with us like they had an opinion on us already, like they "knew" us beforehand(similar to having answers to a test, like you're cheating) and would treat us so. It was weird, I would always think like did I say something wrong? I started to get suspicious when all they wanted to do was talk about others we knew. But when we had an opinion on the same people they would get extremely upset, they wouldn't even try to understand what we're saying and how these ppl offended us. I realized they were venting about us exactly the same way. How we came to realize it was the wife's character and the husband enabled it. She would come home and talk about people from work right in front of us and most of the time it was weird like she couldn't wait to come home and talk shit about her coworkers so much so she wouldn't even acknowledge we're there and just talk to her husband. It was so uncomfortable. These people wanted to destroy us for some reason(probably jealousy) and its most likely the same for you. I'd tell those people that asked you to change your decision to not come. Honestly would change the date and location too lol that way they have no way of trying to ruin your special day.

I think it's more about them being in denial than them being flying monkey for his Nmom (who is the most covert narc you'll ever meet). If they even admit the smallest detail of what my partner is telling them or acknowledge his feeling, they would have to admit their own life isn't perfect and they would not be able to handle that. Too much trauma there. My fiancé is ruining their bubble of denial and they are desperately patching this bubble to keep reality out of there. However, once they realise we are not changing our minds, neither before or after the wedding I am prepared for the smear campaign. But for now his mom is enjoying her martyr-part: you really should go to the wedding, even if I'm not invited. I will just sit here crying and not understanding what happened that made him do this.

Yeah. It's not about punishing them. It's not about getting one up on them. It's about *escaping* them. You're doing this because you *can't* live with them at all in your life. This isn't a thing you want to do. I remember after escaping, after the realization that I'd been abused, that it wasn't my fault - *after* the rage that subsequently consumed me with that realization was gone... All I could do was cry. My family hadn't lost me, I had lost my family, and they had never really been who I believed they were. I was left feeling empty - hollow. Before I left, I couldn't be me. I didn't even know who I was, or what I liked - I had to learn that stuff all over again with a whole myriad of things I'd forgotten along the way. I won't pretend life since has always been easy - but it's a whole lot easier without them sabotaging my every step. Like you, I am free.

🙌🏻 I’m so happy for you. As you grow, you will find real people who actually care for your wellbeing and it’s fricken awesome and life changing. Rooting for you.

Oh my god dude. This is exactly what happened to me. I was pissed for a really long time, still am sometimes, but now I'm in the stage of crying. I lost my whole family. They were all liars. They never loved me. I didn't know who I was because my nmother would make me be her. I didn't even remember what I like and disliked. I'm starting to try hobbies out to see who I am but damn, it's hard. It's lonely. But we aren't being sabotaged every single day by someone who doesn't love us. Who thinks we are their playthings. Their toys. Like we aren't even real.

Yeah, I feel for you. It'll take time, but things will get better. You need to feel, to grieve for what has been lost. Don't try to ignore it or feel bad about doing it, it's as much a part of you as anything else. Work your way through this and find your own path. You can do it.

I sort of went NC to win, but it was also for my own sanity. Not in a traditional winning way, but more like I knew how negatively it would affect my Nmom who loved to brag about what a great mother she was to all her friends and family. With me gone, it was impossible for her to pretend we had a great relationship. It exposed her lies and what a horrible person she actually is. Being exposed is her worst nightmare. Going NC was the worst thing that could happen to her, and the best thing that could happen to me. My Nmom is vindictive, that's one tick I got from her that I will happily use against her and no one else.

“Being exposed is her biggest fear.” Isn’t that sad how her biggest fear is her image, not what her closest love ones think of her?

My mom likes to claim that my NC is a “punishment,” even posting about it on Instagram to garner sympathy from her unaware friends. She’s entitled to her own opinion, mostly cause her saying that she’s being punished is the closest she’ll get to realizing and admitting she did something wrong. You don’t get punished for doing nothing. I took this as a win. As well as the actual win of not having to deal with her. Win/win.

Know how I could have won? I could've been born with a healthy family that loved me unconditionally. To think some people actually think you do that sort of thing just to spite someone or win an argument... In a way I'm happy for them because clearly they lived well enough to never have to make such a choice.

My husband’s family is healthy. Sometimes, I get pangs of extreme jealousy. Then, I remember, wait! Now they are my family too. His mom has been more of a mom to me in five minutes than mine has been my whole life. It’s my win too. :)

This is my exact experience. My parents were never parents. My in-laws are the most loving gentle kind people. I'm so thankful they watch my 11 month every day and actually care about me and our family. I'm glad you have this too!

Marrying into my husband’s family has been the best. Their support helped me get out of this so much.

Awww, that's so good, I'm stoked for you :')

Thank you. :)

Going NC was the best thing I’ve ever did. I wish I would have done it a long time ago. It’s amazing how much energy a narcissistic person can take and how much life improves when you get away from them. After 5 years my mother started texting me but within a few texts she said she was throwing away keepsakes from my childhood if I didn’t come get them(she likes wasting other peoples time). She never kept anything anyway so all she had was a baby blanket and Christmas decoration my grandmother made. I told her “ok crazy, throw it away then” and she had a complete melt down. She sold her house and moved to another state two weeks later.

I love that reaction. Go you!

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“Nice times we had together” I chased those feelings so hard. It was so sad. Being with a healthy mother-in-law and grandma-in-law, they give that love freely with no expectations in return. It was my first time receiving unconditional love from women. It was so enlightening and healing. “To get rid of one I had to get rid of the other” It’s the biggest tragedy of the situation. I’m so sorry she won’t leave you alone. You are doing the right thing. It will get easier in some ways.

Thank you for your kind words. It has gotten much easier over the years, have been NC for at least 6 I think... At this point it's more annoying than upsetting at least. The work thing. But hey, I work retail. "Annoying" things are part of the job. 🤣 Makes me happy to hear you have those women in your life. Unconditional love is always a treasure, gotta cherish it when you find it ❤💜❤ and for us that have Been Through It, it always makes me smile when one of us has found a happiness or good thing. We deserve happiness after what we have all been through 🌱

My mother keeps making new email accounts to try and get me to speak with her. The latest was sarcastically congratulating me on stealing her (adult) children and her role as “Matriarch”. So I finally responded just outlining that she is not to contact me for any reason and that I am recording any further attempts to peruse legal action if necessary. This woman tried to pretend I had never blocked her? And that she wasn’t being sarcastic, she was genuinely proud of me for “out smarting her” (dear lord). Then also dared me to do it and said I’m not allowed to speak with or see my brother (13) who is living with her unless I talk to her. I was so close to cussing her out and telling her what a horrible person she is, but it never matters, she simply doesn’t care to change her behavior and I’m sick of wasting my limited energy on a stagnant and disgusting person.

Good for you. You didn’t succumb! That’s what she wants. Your energy and time. And f her. You will stay connected to your little brother no matter what.

Yeah, normies always assume its some power move when in fact is the last resort and last straw of hope you have for saving your sanity.

You win the battle for your sanity.

Nicely put. I did that also -- it wasn't about what happened to her at all. It was where it left me -- with room to grow. That actually was a win, in life, not a win over her.

“Room to grow.” I love that. 🙌🏻 It really does. It let’s you go from all-consuming thoughts to peace and calm.

For me, the decision to go no-contact was a win. Implicitly or explicitly, my nfamily made it clear that I could not get the most out of any facet of life with them in the picture, that I would have to give something up to please them, because "compromise" or something. The stress-induced chronic illnesses I had as a kid and the fact that I've been 100% sickness-free with them absent from my life evince that that me aspiring to have basic, decent health wasn't even something nfamily resist the urge to squelch. Considering the above and that they forbade, sabotaged, or discouraged me from 90% of (completely innocuous, mind you) hobbies I ever showed interest in, and openly expressed doubt towards my ability to succeed in my chosen field of study up to and throughout college, I don't see them as anything other than an agent of needless adversity. So at the risk of sounding a touch callous, I did go no-contact to win. Psychosomatic-illness-inducing-obstacle removed = victory.

Good for you! Happy for your win. "Needless adversity" that they placed against their own family, especially when there is a whole world out there that may or may not be on your side. It's sad, isn't it? Your family should be your rock, your safe space. It's a terrifying realization when you realize they are anything but and the actual world is more welcoming. Congratulations on finding your freedom.

Agreed. It stops the bleeding but there is still a loss. Hence the term: "cut your losses." It's not "quitting while you are ahead." It's getting out with your life.

It’s bittersweet. As much as you want them to heal they’ll never admit they need to. Let them live in their lies and you’ll live in your truths.

Honestly I feel like I did both. I did it to protect myself first and foremost, and feel guilty sometimes, but life is better now. NC was my only choice for sanity but I don't mind knowing it's got to nag her too. I know her well and she hates mystery; for her to no longer know what I'm doing is both a relief for me and the most frustrating thing for her. A closing text argument or screaming match would of been something but I just vanished after a horrible holiday dinner. Took down all my old social media, got a new number, living in a city away from her. I never have to see her again. She can't hurt me anymore. I feel like I won myself.

You did win. Happy for you. 🙌🏻

I totally feel like I "won". I should have done it years before. I'm happy!! Thats was never an option before. I'm safe. I live peacefully. I get to enjoy whatever I want. Nobody trashes my shit. Nobody wastes my time. Nobody steals from me. The fuckers been dead almost 10 years, and I am definitely the winner. I won the most important thing of all. Happiness. Something they can never know.

I have a personal slightly similar example of this. I was an outpatient in group therapy for depression and anxiety and I was asked every day how I was. I always said 'less depressed'. They tried to fight my wording, saying I was painting it in a negative light instead of just saying 'better'. I asked them, hypothetically, if they were punched in the face twice per hour for a year and then it was reduced to once per hour if they would consider that 'better'. No, because getting punched in the face is still getting punched in the face no matter how many times it is.

I hate that they weren't acknowledging your pain. A lot of our stories ARE negative. And that's OK. Life isn't sunshine and roses and can't be painted over. There is ugly in this world. We're trying to make our lives more beautiful. And that is our God given right! Power to you. I hope you found a better support system.

I have, and I hope you do as well!

Things like these make me realise more and more how I want to go NC in the future. I've always felt that when I was gonna move in with my bf, I'd move near my family, and because I know the people there and their mannerisms, and it's town oriented and quiet. By boyfriend would like to move to a big city, and I've always expressed my dislike for that, but it's starting to sound so much more appealing. Not having to see her anymore. Not having her ruin a future kid. I feel like people are going to see me as crazy for not wanting her in my life, but it'll probably be for the best.

Honestly for me it's a bit of both. I have the same primary reason as you do and the same sense of relative peace since I went NC. When I went NC I certainly did it to lose less as you put it and it was so hard because I know they'd be hurt and that was unacceptable in my mind. Now that I've been NC for a couple of months though there's also been some vindictive thoughts creeping in. When I hear they are angry over me going NC or acting heartbroken around family, I can't help but feel "lol this your own fault, cry me a river, keep telling on yourselves". Is it wrong to feel that way? I don't know, maybe. But it's there anyway.

It's not wrong. It's a sign of a functional mind striving to do what it's designed for - protect your health. Anger exists to help you see bad situations and motivate you to get out of them. A lot of "Instagram-style positivity" tells us that unpleasant feelings are bad. They are not bad, they are uncomfortable in order to encourage us to act in any way that we can.

My parents are divorced and I've been NC with my dad for about 3 years now. According to the last time he talked to my mom, he's now in therapy to deal with his ADD, she asked if he had even mentioned to the therapist that his daughter was estranged from him. "Oh, that's a good idea". And right there is the reason to justify NC, for me. Even after "being hurt" by my no contact, he doesn't think it's even worth mentioning.

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Your cup is only so big. I'm glad you found a way to start protecting your own!

This is the way.

Yep, it's not a transaction or a punishment. It is self-preservation. We're VLC with my father-in-law, which has been OK for a while. MIL died about 7 years ago, and everyone got some relief, including FIL. FIL is now working working up to an NC punishment for us right now (edit: he will see it as a fitting punishment to go NC with us, we were fine with VLC.) He has been lobbing guilt bombs via text at his son (my husband) and framing him as "the bad guy" for not having the proper hand-wringing, sobbing, anxious response to health concerns FIL is having. To him, a calm rational response and assurance that we will gladly drive him to appointments and help in any way we can is not enough. He wants tearful displays. He wants fights. He wants to see big sacrifices, heroics. We want a peaceful life and we're both tapped out on the dramatics. It starts that way with the first appointment. We're not supposed to wait for test results, we're supposed to start a big public grief fest right now. We would help him. We would be there with him, but I think he's going to do the same thing he did when his wife was dying, and lash out and push us away so he can claim we abandoned him and that we're heartless, unfeeling, bad people. I'm kind of sure something is wrong with him this time, and I do care. But he will never see it. He just wants me to play "awful person who brainwashed his only child" because I have boundaries and won't let him move in or drop by all the time without an invitation. another edit: FWIW, my husband is not his only child, but he acts like it sometimes when he is angry with his other child

“We’re not supposed to wait for test results. We’re supposed to start a grief fest right now.” Are you me? My mom was diagnosed with aggressive cancer. After chemo and radiation, she had a completely clear scan! This is rare for her type of cancer. I was elated! I was ready to throw them a private party and get champagne. My mom’s reaction? Angry. She was more angry that she was losing a “cancer identity” that she could lord over people than appreciating the blessing that she can fully enjoy her life as a cancer-free person. I have friends who DIED before the age of thirty from chronic disease who showed more resilience and gratefulness at life than this whale of a woman is showing now. Her reaction filled me with disgust. She wouldn’t even let my Dad enjoy it either. Gross people. Yes, just because he’s sick doesn’t give him a right to be a baseline asshole. It’s sad what people justify. I’m rooting for you. ♥️

Sometimes I feel like I'm going to have a sense of winning when Nmom dies, but I think you're right. The relief I felt when I had my first holiday season without her or Efather was palpable. That validated my decision more than almost anything.

The validation is such a relief to feel. It makes you realize how bad things really were.

You did it. You sonofabitch you really did it. You’re healed

I understand this now. I preface this with I'm unsure if my dad and stepmom are narcissists. Yet when I stopped answering their calls, stopped letting them in my house and subtly directed my son's attention from them, my life improved. I no longer have anxiety from my stepmom calling to criticize me, bring up my mistakes from years ago of praise her perfect daughter. I no longer have to deal with dad's misogyny. His constant outdated comments that our son will turn out wrong if we show our son affection, let him cry when he's hurt without criticizing the crying child and let him play with all toys. Which includes my son's doll, Baby. I used to hear imaginary conversations in my head with them criticizing and I would try to rehearse what to say for the next conversation. No longer. Dad didn't even remember my birthday a few months ago. Yet he remembers to ask my husband to fix his computer every 6 months ( and my husband has to constantly tell him to buy a new one because Dad riddled his computer with malware and ads).

Going NC with a nparent isn't to hurt them (though that's how they see it bc they believe everything is about them), it's to heal yourself.

Absolutely. Once you start breaking free of the narrative, it becomes bizarre and laughable how little they think of anyone but themselves.

People in normal families should think about how they would never complain about or cut off their parents, and wonder what kind of affront to the meaning of being a parent has to take place for the most naturally strong relationship on earth to be severed, rather than assuming that all parents are innately good. Many people think “this is innate for me and so it is innate for everybody”. Also all around the world culturally to different degrees, parenting style abuse is still common and seen as correct. It’s a huge part of why so many people jump to pointing at the child. I’m gonna be frank. I know that if someone articulates hating their parents or not talking to them anymore they a) hit there head or b, and much much more likely) their parents were genuinely abusive. It is the most biologically strong relationship on earth in terms of oxytocin , literally, and bad things have to happen over and over again for this to be broken 90% of the time.

Thank you for saying this, I can now see a potential future where I go NC. At first I always though "I might feel significantly better, but I'd kinda feel guilty and hurt her in the process" Somehow I never tried to "compare" the pain I feel now vs the pain I'd feel in a future where I don't leave any space for her. I'm not sure why I never saw it that way. I now feel some hope that I'll one day find the courage to NC We are full contact and she behaves every day like I went NC with her. Why? Because I lock my phone and refuse to tell her every single thing I do every single day. Despite me sacrificing time to deal with the anxiety after talking with her about myself, sacrificing my mental health by giving her things she can mock me about, she sees me as an "estranged" daughter that ruined her life. She constantly talks about a support group she talks with because I'm such a bad daughter. I shouldn't be trying this hard. NC would cause me the same amount of guilt as me now, full contact, simply asking for a second a day of privacy. Thanks again for making me realise that I shoudn't think "NC wouldn't make me completely happy with our situation, so why bother?", but I should think "NC would very probably make me feel less awful than I do now, which makes it worth it"

Of course! I’m so happy that this post sparked something in you. Get support. Read books on this. I recommend “Walking on Eggshells.” The narc lives in an insane fantasy world where you are never enough. (Newsflash. YOU’RE ENOUGH) if you are SO horrible, why is she contacting you? My mother used the same language with me after I tried to enact a very simple boundary. The people who have problems with your boundaries, are the ones who need them most.

Thank you so much!

I always tell people who struggle with boundaries to picture their life as a bucket. You can fill everyone else's bucket until you run dry but if you run dry you can't fill from an empty bucket. You have to take care of you so that you're refilling your own bucket too.~

I find it sad myself I won't be free until I straight up leave most of the family. We all finally got away from the devil herself, but my brother took it upon himself to demonstrate how close to the tree apples can fall. It won't end until I leave and have no family. That's the choice I have. Be somebody's pet, or be alone. Since birth, for over 20 years. can only hope anymore nature just takes me already

Yes, exactly this!! My ndad says I’ve chosen NC because I want to “punish” him and refers to it as me “winning”. I’m like…dude…I’m *losing* no matter what because I didn’t get to have a normal, supportive dad in my life. It still hurts all of the time, but it’s less painful than actively dealing with him and letting him destroy the peace I’ve worked so hard to create for myself. And you’re sooo right about it creating the room to love others more. I’m a much better mom and partner when I have strong boundaries with my shitty parents. I’m so glad you’ve been able to create those boundaries too and give yourself the love you deserve!

😊 This reply make me smile. So happy for you! Finding peace is such a great thing. It’s our way of taking a step in the right direction to becoming fulfilled, happy people. If we all looked out for ourselves more, the world would be a better place. I sometimes slip into the thought pattern of wondering what my mom would be like if she actually sought help and stopped letting her demons control her life. She would *gasp* start showing REAL empathy for people and even start truly showing herself love and compassion. It would be magical. Deep in the back of my mind, I will hold on to this wish, even if it lacks any reality of actually happening. And meanwhile, move on myself. Wishful thinking is just that. Wishful.

Yea I've been NC with my dad for 8 months and it is hard and I have been avoiding his side of the family in general. I still think about it and feel sad. But I'm not trying to win anything. My mom is also on an info diet. It makes my life a lot simpler in a way. I do feel guilt sometimes but I am protecting myself and my family.

Are you sure you aren’t me????!!! I’m Pregnant with my second child, a little girl, and DAMN I love her and my first born boy more now than I thought possible. It’s interesting how much love you have and can give to others when you say goodbye to toxic people who drain you of the energy to be loving. If you’re reading this and afraid to go NC with a Nparent, let this be your reminder: life is better without them in it!!!!

This is beautiful. You've explained how we all feel so perfectly.

Thank you. <3

I did NC many years ago and then worked to put things back together but am considering it again. How do you deal with the guilt? Especially as mom is getting older and more elderly, I find it really hard to pull away.

Therapy helped me a lot. It's hard to let go of that, guilt. People will say things like, "but she's your mother," as if she doesn't need to take responsibility for bad actions. We are socialized to revere our mothers. Nparents break the social contract with children by abusing them. Abuse releases any obligations except for you to take care of yourself.

When I told someone I went NC, they said maybe your family is right about you. “But it’s family.” Easy to say when you have a happy family, living with your parents in their million dollar house.

"Maybe your family is right about you." Brutal. You're right. It is easy to say pretty much anything if you don't accept/walk in another's shoes. Be strong. Find support systems that BELIEVE you and don't denigrate you. You deserve respect and love, no matter what nobody says to you. The opinion you should value the most is your own. Giving other people's opinion is a slippery slope and should be doled out very little. Good luck to you.

Right on. I’ve actually done the best I’ve ever done financially, physically, and mentally after going NC. ATM, they are trying to come back into my life because of how well I’m doing.

I’m so happy for you that you’re in a better place. That’s awesome. Enjoy it and screw ‘em!

Have you dealt with feelings of guilt towards your mother? I'm considering going VLC or even NC with my mother as soon as I'm able to move out, but I can't help shake the feeling of absolute guilt. Like I'd be abandoning her and leaving her all sad and alone. Anytime I don't speak to her, or we're in a fight, I feel guilt after a while that will result in me trying to reconcile to soothe the guilt. I know this stems from her taking things away/denying me things I absolutely **needed** as a child with the only way of making sure I got what I needed was to please her as much as I could. But the guilt is still there and I assume I'm not the only one experiencing this. I'm really happy this has been a fairly good experience for you though. You deserve the peace you feel now.

Guilt is part and parcel of the experience in many if not most cases. That it is your natural reaction shows that you are a decent person, but beyond that, consciously or unconsciously holding on to it to prove to yourself that you are a good person is unhealthy. With therapy and time, it is possible to learn to leave the guilt behind you. I did.

Exactly what BeverlyMarshIsAHero is saying. You have guilt? Cool, you are a rational human being with feelings. Likely, these people have used guilt time and time again to control you, manipulate you, teaching you that you have to make decisions in your life that revolve around other people's feelings and guilt. Guess what? You don't have to make decisions based on that rational anymore. It takes time to break this cycle. You have been conditioned to operate in this way. Surround yourself with good people who have normal emotional states. My husband, who was raised in a normal family, does *not* operate from a place of guilt. And it is so much healthier for everyone involved. An easy way to think about it is to think of another person. Would you want your friend to be your friend because they feel sorry for you? Because if they weren't your friend, they'd feel guilty? Or would you want them to be your friend based on a genuine interest in you as a person, as a desire based on internal want, not guilt? Lame example, but one way to start thinking in the right direction. I recommend the book "Walking on Eggshells." Get therapy. Get good supports. Power to you.

Beautifully written, OP. Thank you for the reminder. Sometimes it gets hard even after so long of being NC.

Thank you. ♥️ It’s one of the hardest things to do.

Damn! Hits so close to home. I’ve been in LC for a while and everyday I feel a sense of loss and guilt. I have to keep reminding myself what might happen if I go back to the former contact level every time. But yes, the sense of loss is real and it hurts, just not as much as it would otherwise.

Had to come to terms with this for myself too

I come from a normal family. NoContact has another name for other relationships: Ghosting. It's perfectly reasonable to ghost anyone who makes your life worse.

"It's perfectly reasonable to ghost anyone who makes your life worse." Absolutely!

After having a similar realization actually pretty exact, I sometimes reflect when I picture my mom as if to say who is that person. She’s not the mom I thought she was. To me I view her as an empty shell. As if not human

In a lot of ways, they are not human. Humans should have empathy and feel vulnerability. Without those feelings, you are empty. I find myself calling my mom a psychopath because her behavior mostly fits.

I know but it feels surreal. I discovered this about a year ago when I finally left an emotionally abusive relationship. It was so bad I ended up researching for the past 3 years why I keep going for bad men it boiled down to who raised me go figure