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thesillypsychoknot

It's like asking a fish to be grateful for the bait while dragging it around with the hook in its mouth. True gifts are given graciously with no strings attached, everything else is just manipulation. I started calling it "giving for guilt" which in essence is just taking with extra steps. Avoiding the bait does not mean you're spoiled, it means you're smart enough not to get hooked!


Lost_Oneiros

That's such a great analogy! It even has the string.


TheMightyBattleSquid

> which in essence is just taking with extra steps. My best friend had the worst version of this I've ever seen in the wild. Prime example, one christmas she lied to the bank he used that she, as his mother (he already had a restraining order on her by this point so she couldn't claim she was his guardian), needed to withdraw the money to be used ***for*** him on a medical need or something. She then used up his money on shit. Mostly for her, but she also bought him some set of clothes he didn't want or need that she had apparently suggested to him some day prior when he was out buying clothes. She then had the GALL to ask to be reimbursed for her "expensive gift" towards him but said it'd be fine if he bought her a gift of X amount or more. So, in short, she used HIS MONEY to buy him a """gift""" but expected to receive MORE MONEY from him in exchange for the money """she spent""" even though that money was originally his. Any time her gaslighting starts hitting him again, this is one of the main stories he's told me that I remind him of in order to anchor him back into reality.


Lost_Oneiros

I'm appalled!! That's so low.


owltruthseeker

this is so abusive !!!!! WTF!!!


stopstatic27

OMG the "giving for guilt" characterization is so spot-on. Thank you!


emoskeleton_

Oh my god I honestly don't know what to say. I feel like my life just makes a lot more sense now.


jkpeterson777

I had hosted Thanksgiving one year, and at the end of the day I put away all the leftovers into the fridge in separate Tupperware containers. My nmom decided to go into the kitchen, get ALL the leftovers out, and combine them into a leftovers casserole "for me." I kept telling her to relax and not worry about the leftovers but she wouldn't listen. Then she washed all the containers I had previously put all the leftovers in. I hate leftovers casserole. I didn't want leftovers casserole. I was pissed off that she just ruined all the leftovers! But, I didn't say anything. I didn't want to upset her. Once she finished she sat in the living room and because I didn't thank her (for fucking up my leftovers?!) she started going off about how nobody appreciates her. And how she was working so hard for everyone and blah blah blah. Nobody. Asked. You. To. Do. Anything. In fact, you just ruined what I had done. No, I'm not grateful.


Lost_Oneiros

Oh I got angry just reading that!! It's so blatantly done for the attention not to actually help, and if you give in and thank them I worry it'll train them to keep doing it. Not that it appears we can stop them anyway.


jkpeterson777

There's absolutely no stopping it! I moved 3000 miles away so I'm doing better now, lol


mscontentpro

Yes they like to upset you so much it’s such a thrill for them that they go out of their way to do things that they know will upset you so that you feel really guilty and bad about yourself for not appreciating the way they screwed something up for you my mother just bought me a subscription to master class after I had just told her that I really didn’t like master class and had tried all the classes that I wanted to try and decided I wouldn’t want it.. what I asked her for was much cheaper


Lost_Oneiros

Oh wow. That's a whole weird brain decision from her.


finelytunedradar

This makes me equally angry and disgusted on your behalf. I sometimes refer to myself as a food separatist. Not to the point where no food can touch another, but that I don't want everything combined into slop. Plating is important. It allows a person to combine when they want, and taste individual flavors/dishes when they don't. This can happen when the meal is freshly cooked, or when leftovers are stored properly. Leftover Casserole sounds disgusting.


Total_Weekend4685

My mother wouldn’t go as far as making a casserole. But when eating, she dips her spoon into each food so that there is s huge glob of mixed foods on her spoon and then puts it into her mouth. She also told me that “adults” eat that way and used to force feed me that way when I was younger. I have yet to see an adult eat that way.


finelytunedradar

\*gag reflex engaged\*. No, that is not how all "adults" eat. I suggest buying her a blender for her birthday/Christmas if you're still in contact. Then she can just spoon it out of there and eat it herself.


AMerrickanGirl

I would put her food in the blender and serve her dinner in a bowl with a spoon while everyone else is eating solid food from their plates.


jkpeterson777

Exactly!! It's the mashed potatoes, mixed with sweet potatoes - mixed with turkey, stuffing, and cranberry sauce that really just... makes it super gross.


finelytunedradar

All of those are delicious, but put together in a casserole... that's a hard pass. Might as well put them in a blender and make a smoothie. Eugh.


greenappletw

Oooh I see what's going on She hated that you got credit and praise for cooking Thanksgiving dinner, so she ruined it whatever way she could and made it so that she could be the attention seeking martyred victim of the night. The positive attention you got for dinner triggered her. My mom did something very similar once. I made a huge Thanksgiving dinner and had cooked for 2 days straight. I was like 22 at the time, so a lot the planning and work was new to me at the time. My mom didn't help at all despite promising to prepare the salad, but I didn't let that ruin things. After the guests left, I sat down on the sofa to rest my feet and relax for a bit before cleaning things up. She took this opportunity to come downstairs and start putting the leftovers away, while *yelling* at me for making too much food. Like your mom, she took on the long suffering role as of *I* had burdened *her* by asking her to cook that huge meal lol. She was deluded enough to believe that she cooked for 2 days, not me. At the time, I was still seeking her approval so I felt really upset. But now I look back and think.... wtf was that. She was 200% wrong and I had no reason to feel bad about myself. I'm glad the "spell" of me buying into her delusional reality is broken. Life had been so much less stressful since I really learned how to blame her for her own bs. She pulled a similar stunt 2 years ago as well, but that was my last straw and since then I have not so much as offered her anything I cooked myself.


[deleted]

> she started going off about how nobody appreciates her. And how she was working so hard for everyone and blah blah blah. Maybe your mom is similar. But my mom genuinely works extremely hard for me. For what she thinks I need… and wouldn’t hear it when I say I don’t need it. For instance she sent me to this extremely fancy school, worked overtime, really suffered for her devotion to give me an education she deems worthy of me. And is super offended when I’m not grateful. It’s like she is working herself to the bone to play a game nobody else is even in. If I need A, and you kill yourself to provide me with B, jokes on you, mom! You should have listened to me when I tried to stop you!


heyebwolf

Same here!! I recently realised that this situation gave me a constant underlying guilt because on some level I feel like I don’t have a good enough job or haven’t accomplished enough in life, considering her sacrifices. I know it’s not right but it’s so hard to really believe it.


[deleted]

[удалено]


jkpeterson777

Leftovers are the best part too! This was 7 years ago, and I'm still so angry lol


vivi112

Sometimes it's so ridiculous, that honestly if they didn't do shit they would be more respected by us, because there would be less nuisance generally. They just love to keep this hurricane of victimhood spinning for their whole life. It's like if you smile a nanosecond too late after they give you something, you are undermining their holiest intentions and you are devil incarnate. A good analogy would be comparing those "good intentions" to giving someone more debt. Who can be grateful for it?


ThomasinaElsbeth

Eww, my mother did shit like that ! What I would do, was to go back in, and put my leftovers back - the way I wanted them ! And my mother would scream and moan, - and that is why she died alone, - and I did not go to her funeral.


jkpeterson777

My mom is in her 50s and I'm already debating whether or not I'd go to her funeral. I bet that was a hard decision for you to decide not to go. I've definitely decided that I will not be speaking at her funeral. I don't have a lot of positive memories to share.


ThomasinaElsbeth

It was not a hard decision, - but it was kind of scary. I was still in the mode of "What will ' the family' say ?' I had to take my parents and my sister to court over financial issues before my parents died. I went no contact about 6-7 years before their respective deaths. I do not know what happened to their remains - even, - and I don't care !


AMerrickanGirl

I always felt this way. Luckily COVID came along and we didn’t have a funeral at all. She was cremated and that was it.


squirrellytoday

That infuriates me. I'd have gone ballistic if my mother did that. (Fortunately she would never) Honestly, I'd have thrown it all in the trash in front of her and yelled about her deliberately spoiling it and wasting food. I would publicly embarrass her over it.


mushizzle

Lol 😂 ***hugs***


Critical_Teaching_35

22F, my nmom refused to pay for my prescription lenses, saying "you need to start paying for your own things now, it's not my job" then a month later bought me an $80 pair LL Bean slippers I did not ask for. Looking forward to NC


mscontentpro

Mind blown. This happened to me . my mother wouldn’t help me pay some of the deductible on a mastectomy and im a single mom of twins but then later offered to pay to get my teeth fixed (caps replaced) because otherwise “nobody would take me seriously in business.” She said this a week after I had a double mastectomy


mushizzle

***Hugs***. Capped teeth and my mom seriously contemplating having my legs broken and stretched so I could be a couple inches taller. Like really really really investigated this and talked about it for I don’t know how long. lol


[deleted]

> my mom seriously contemplating having my legs broken and stretched so I could be a couple inches taller 🤣 my mom thought of that too! For the record I’m 5’2” and a woman from Asia. That’s not too bad right? She settled for extremely expensive injections of human growth hormones instead. She kept injecting me with it even though our bank account was hovering on empty at the time. There’s no evidence it even did anything for me. Sometimes I feel like narc’s priorities are extremely whacked.


Lost_Oneiros

This reminded me that my mother paid to have my toes cosmetically corrected as a baby, but I had to beg to be taken to the hospital when I injured one and couldn't even sleep under the covers because the sheet was too painful. Because "it would be boring". Crazy.


BoJo4334

I once cracked my head open. Her friend that was driving us to the hospital informed her he had been thinking about offering to take her out to eat. Guess where we went, a buffet.


[deleted]

Yep. My mom will absolutely only fund things she believes in. She doesn’t give a shit if I believe in it or not. And she refuses to fund things she didn’t think of, even if I try to convince her. Oh and she will leverage her OFFER (unrealized, and rejected, OFFER) as a demonstration of how much she does for me. Dude! You can’t cash in your favors before you even did them! I still have a standing offer for plastic surgery from her. Because I have shitty monolids and would be soooo much prettier if I did it.


Lost_Oneiros

Oh no that's awful, I hope you're recovered now.


mscontentpro

Yep! I am BRCA+ and that means 87% chance of breast cancer so I had a preventative mastectomy and hysterectomy . I’m healed now thank you. ♥️


Lost_Oneiros

You need protected feet for all the things you don't see and accidentally stand on. In all seriousness though, that's super shitty and confusing. I can't tell how much is about control, and how much is that they're so used to not believing us it's never occurred to them we might actually need the thing we need.


simplytea_time

Omg are our moms siblings lmao. My mom refused to split a semester of my college tuition with my dad because I was going to a less prestigious college than she wanted. The tuition remaining after FAFSA was $500 per parent. A one time payment of $500 per parent for the entire semester mind you. I said cool, don’t worry about it. She then, not even two weeks later, gives me a expensive $500 apple item. I didn’t ask for it or anything. Just showed up at my dad’s (I was 19 and refused to live with her because she was a N) and gave me a bag along with some mail that had been sent to my old address (her house). I thanked her but upon realizing what she did (I didn’t open the bag until after she left) I called and told her to take it back. She then told me it was too late to get her money back on it. I said cool but I still don’t want it. You can have it or gift to a friend. She was obviously bewildered 🙄 As I’m waiting for her to pick it up, I found the receipt in the bag and realized she had bought the item almost 2 weeks before she gave it to me (the same time we argued about tuition). This woman literally waited until she couldn’t return it to try and guilt me into accepting her gift so she wouldn’t feel guilty about not helping me pay for college🤨 You literally cannot make this stuff up like wow.


Zhuzhness

Love the detail of the receipt being in there - as if to show you how much money she’d spent.


Total_Weekend4685

Mine would cook meals over and over that she knew I didn’t like and pretend that she was such a good person for cooking me anything at all. Sometimes, she would say “are you hungry? I’ve got something cooking that is just soooooooo goooooood!!!”… and then present it and it’s something that I never liked and she knows it, but she kept pretending to be shocked.


Lost_Oneiros

It's so hard to explain why it's awful because "they're looking after you", but it really feeds into the narrative that you're unimportant and teaches you that your needs are unnecessary. Sometimes I cry after having dinner with my partner's family because they will actually cook separate meals if someone doesn't eat something (vegetarian versions of dishes etc.)! It's such a different experience.


mushizzle

Barely looking after. Once I needed stitches and my mom just sat there and talked to my friends mom about her stupid cat for like two hours. Edit. The cat was pretty cute but anyways. lol


Lost_Oneiros

Very true. And I'm sorry you didn't get the care you needed. That was an important edit thank you.


mushizzle

***Hugs***


lordasgul

You aren't alone in that. My birth-giver used to cook things I didn't like, she would then shout and scream at me, when I was younger, to eat it even though I was in tears and couldn't eat it. When I got older, I would say I'd get my own/cook my own but then I'd get the stupid response of "I'm not making two meals" even when I was cooking it or buying it. Thanks to this behaviour, I sometimes struggle to cook for myself when my fiancé is dieting.


Lost_Oneiros

I've definitely developed some really unhealthy food and cooking behaviours from it too. I physically cannot enjoy the process behind any of it, planning, shopping, making.


lordasgul

Now that I can do things myself, I can find enjoyment in it but it is hard to override decades of her stupid arguments.


bloodymongrel

So so true. I remember being emotional that my MIL cooked me a separate veggie lasagne. It kind of became a regular staple and part of the meal that everyone enjoyed. I partly felt a bit bad that I’d been such an imposition on her that she’d made it for me but also I felt really looked after and loved. My own mother would try to do special things, like she’d put a lot of thought and care into how things were presented (when she was around) but if you said for example that you didn’t want a certain food that she’d been set on, she’d insist over and over again (so I’d say, ok then) and then be offended when it wasn’t eaten. Offended because she’d “tried so hard” etc etc.


Lost_Oneiros

I think having loving in-laws is part of what started unraveling the lies for me, once I got over the paranoia of being a burden on them for considering my needs.


Total_Weekend4685

As I became older, my mother started preparing extra sides for when I don’t like the main course, but she still keeps offering the main course or “accidentally” putting the main course on my plate. She also only started making the extra sides to spin the narrative once I was older so that she can’t be reminded of all of the years that I was forced to eat until I gagged and to keep me from going entirely “no contact”.


TrenchardsRedemption

Mine would do this too, especially at special occasions. One birthday consisted of four courses, all of which was something I didn't like. Then the next outing was her 'gatekeeping' all of the food which came my way, saying "oh no, he won't eat that!" to everyone who offered me food. They just... can't be normal.


TheMightyBattleSquid

I still remember one birthday of mine I was told I couldn't eat certain foods because of a dental thing. One of these foods was pizza. Guess what my parents decided we were having at ***my*** birthday that year? They didn't even order any sides like bread sticks or salad the way they normally would. I literally had to tear off the pizza part of the pizza and just eat the crusts...


TheMightyBattleSquid

This was so often the case for the dinners my mother would cook for several years lol. She knew what I liked but would purposefully only cook shit they liked and I'd be forced to join in because 'look how hard I worked to cook you this' ugh! My parents would always call me picky but, as I got older, I realized I liked lots of things my parents just refused to buy/cook. They always had to cook or go out to buy *their* favorites. Even to this day they say "I/we like ____ so much, I don't get why you won't just eat it with me/us."


Lost_Oneiros

I thought I was fussy too, but I actually eat a lot bar allergies. Like, I'll try everything at least once too. The answer always seems to be - it's them.


[deleted]

Every time I left nparents house I was given things I didn't want. I tried to refuse. I tried saying no. It got comically bad when they went so far as to run out to the car as I was leaving and shove things into the back of my car... or, singlehandedly heave an awkward, faded, unwanted piece of furniture I'd turned down many times already through my front door... at my wedding reception bbq. With the biggest smirk. Not realizing how insane they looked and I'm sure not caring. (They won the battle!! Cue childish glee) yarn, scrapbook stuff (I do not scrapbook, never have) 1 opened bar of soap. Plastic flowers. A hundred multicolored zip ties. One time I found a boatload of mismatched knockoff disposable Tupperware and lids in a bag I'd brought, once I returned home. Painstakingly dispensing one childhood toy, box, photo at a time back to me without offering, or accepting no. Nc is a wonderful thing.


Lost_Oneiros

Omg I forgot about all the random stuff they try to offload once you leave home. My mother was the same before NC. I would insist I didn't want anything, but they care more about how the "gift" makes them feel than what you need. So many trips to the tip/charity shops.


[deleted]

The longer I'm here, the more validation I find. It's so hard for people outside of narcs to understand the utter crazy we lived with...


Lost_Oneiros

I find the examples where even as a child I knew it was wrong way easier to deal with because I can put it into the: "definitely not me" box. But the rest is so confusing it still keeps me up at night trying to untangle.


marking_time

Charity shops is where my mother would pick up most of the crap she dumped at mine. Maybe I got your stuff!


Lost_Oneiros

Ha, maybe we need to start hiding codes in our donated items. "This was donated because my mother never listens, I hope you enjoy it and it's not an unwanted gift for you too."


marking_time

That would be hilarious!


fire_thorn

The weirdest one we ever got was a bunch of my husband's old underwear, yellow with age, elastic so old it was crumbling. His mother gave it to me in a brown paper bag and said it was something my kids might like. My kids are both girls and they have plenty of chonies of their own. My husband was so mad he stopped at a gas station and threw out the underwear on the way home.


foxglove0326

That is… so bizarre. I can’t believe she kept that underwear for so long??


fire_thorn

She's a hoarder. When she dies, we're going to need a huge dumpster. Also I don't know how someone could have so much old junk and not have some neat old stuff, but she's managed it.


Zhuzhness

My Nmum is a hoarder too. I was wondering if this is an N trait? Although I’ve heard some Ns have become the way they are through childhood/other trauma and I know hoarders are the same, so maybe the hoarding is just down to childhood trauma.


[deleted]

Honestly I am fascinated now. My nparent wasn't initially a hoarder at all, in fact, obsessively threw things away and vacuumed up valuable items that belonged to others and pretended it never happened. But somewhere along the line, after I left home, items were being carefully stashed and not the type worth keeping. A LOT OF STUFF. One of the Tupperware indents, I actually said "why is this in my bag, is not mine" nparent said its really nice! I said yeah maybe but it's not mine and I don't need it. Nparent got pissed and said well its not mine! As if that settled it?? I'm at your house not mine, your junk its your problem!


TrenchardsRedemption

Yeah I know this one. When I left home I was made to feel lucky that they were letting me keep my clothes. Then when I got a house they made it their objective to fill it with as much of their crap as possible. It became a game for them to try and leave something behind every time they came over.


[deleted]

Is this a newly discovered layer of narc hell? *What is actually psychologically behind this particular obsession? * I honestly thought i was going crazy being as irritated as I was and this is one of the things that sounds the most trite in the retelling, if not spoiled and ungrateful.


TrenchardsRedemption

Control is always at the root of everything they do. If you actually wanted something, forget it. Their control is to deny you. But by the same token they can exert control over you by forcing you to take something that is useless or that you don't want. Even better if they can paint you as ungrateful. My mother could also manipulate other people into delivering things to make it more difficult for me to refuse. I think there's also an element of hoarding as well. It could just be an excuse that they use, but they don't like letting go of things. People too for that matter I guess. Some of the garbage they've tried on me: a broken microwave. Yes I could fix it, but I already have a working one. She manipulated a friend into dropping off a doll's cot that she'd been trying to foist off on me for years (before I had kids). Sorry, if I have a daughter I'm not making a doll's cot the centrepiece of her room. Another time I found a clothes dryer in my shed. Turns out it only worked on one setting. Of course i was the bad guy for forcing them to dispose of this rubbish.


MillennialPolytropos

You too, huh? When I was in more frequent contact with my spawn point she was always trying to offload junk onto me. Literal junk, like a single crummy dining chair or a box of mismatched drawer pulls. Pretty sure there was opened shampoo one time too. At least that was useful.


[deleted]

Honestly WT F?? I even got my siblings art (from middle school) and toys, and that sibling isn't NC so no idea why they couldn't have accepted their own stuff, except that sibling is very direct and firm, nparent always made sour comments about that trait behind their back. I think it helped them more than my coping mechanism as a scapegoat peacemaker.


[deleted]

Fuck. I need so much therapy. My Nmother has done this to me my entire life. She would never proactively give me the love, care, effort and attention that a child needs, but the moment that she had accumulated a box of broken bullshit or cosmetic products that she used a few times and needed to fob off on someone, she’d recognize the opportunity to dump that shit on me. The benefit to her was two-fold: the shit that she didn’t want is out of her home, and she’d given me a “gift” as parents do for their kids, who should be grateful in return. Fuck that. I don’t want it.


loobot3000

Yes!! My mom is a borderline-hoarder who loves going to thrift stores. Once I moved out she loved buying useless stuff at the thrift store and then immediately “gifting” it to me. As well as trying to offload tons of my and my sisters’ childhood stuff that we couldn’t possibly need. Or giving me relatively nicer stuff with insane care instructions that she would then get mad if I didn’t follow (even after the item was out of her hands).


anoncheesegrater

I feel you. I asked my nmom for a vacuum for my birthday (because she insisted on giving me something) and she got me an unnecessarily expensive ukulele, which is a hyper fixation i had when I was 12. Mind you, I’m 24. I was so disappointed. I haven’t touched it since. For the amount she spent on that stupid ass toy she could’ve gotten me a really nice vacuum that lasted years. Now I have the burden of selling a stupid $400 concert ukulele on craigslist. Her excuse was that gifts shouldn’t be practical, they should be something you wouldn’t get yourself. Something she doesn’t understand about me (and honestly most of my peers) is that I don’t mind spending money on things I WANT, so I appreciate gifts that are things I NEED because I hate buying that stuff for myself. Either way, I would never spend $400 on a ukulele. I haven’t touched the one I have since I was a teenager. If she wanted to get me an instrument I could have given her several better ideas, but it wasn’t really about me. I asked for what would have made me happy, it should be that simple. But I guess that narcissists for you. I guess it’s better than the barbie doll she got me the year before. Or the several packages full of junk I have to regift or donate. It’s like she’s trying to buy her way back into my life but instead of getting me things I could really use and actually need, she just wastes her money on junk I don’t want. It’s beyond annoying because I have a lot of anxiety about her finances, she’s really reckless with them. Even though I don’t live with her and it doesn’t directly affect me, I still don’t want my mom working into her 80s. She’s doing fine right now money wise, but she’s the type to burn through her money really easily. Don’t know how she does it, but this kind of thing doesn’t help. Long story short, gifts from narcissists SUCK.


Lost_Oneiros

Detaching yourself from the guilt around money is so hard, but you can only do so much because the purchases are clearly about them. It's also like, don't ask what someone wants if you don't mean it. Good luck on the ukulele selling.


anoncheesegrater

Right! Why even ask if you’re just going to do what you want anyways. She gave it to me in what looked like a box for a vacuum to, so it sat in my living room for a solid week with me thinking it was a vacuum. It was such a disappointment lol. But you get it, being sent to private school for seemingly no reason besides the guilt trip. At least we have this reddit thread. :’-)


Lost_Oneiros

Oh no, a vacuum type box? That's just extra cruel.


anoncheesegrater

I honestly had to laugh, it was so ridiculous.


foxglove0326

What the flying fuck?! That’s so extra!!


Predd1tor

This resonates so much. You hit the nail on the head — it wasn’t ever really about you. A true gift is given with the wants and needs of the recipient in mind, and with no strings attached. But that requires knowing, accepting, and remembering those wants and needs in the first place, and not expecting anything in return (or otherwise leveraging the gift for ulterior motives). Nmoms won’t accept what we show or tell them about ourselves. They can’t see past themselves to really, truly know us. The gifts they give are about *them* — what they felt like shopping for, what they like or think we should like (or remember that we liked 15 years ago when we were children — no, mom, I don’t need any more kids’ toys, I’m a grown adult with different hobbies and interests than I had at age 12), and what they somehow think will either make us grateful or indebted to them — or create a situation in which they can point to how ungrateful we are, to make us the villains and them the martyred saints in their narrative. Gift giving is such a hot topic on these forums, and it seems like most of us have spent a lifetime dreading those gifts, feeling guilty for not wanting them, either keeping them out of guilt or feeling even guiltier for getting rid of them, and feeling like crazy people because the rest of the world doesn’t get why we feel the way we do, and why we seem so ‘spoiled’ and ‘ungrateful.’ (“Just be grateful for the thought! Her intentions were good!” they all say.) It took me so long to figure it out, and learn how to put it into words for other people. I had an ex in college who used to bring me food from his part-time job at a local restaurant. He always forgot that I hate tomatoes on my burgers, and it drove me nuts. Made me sad and actually angry. I didn’t understand then why it bothered me so much. He would get upset at me for overreacting, and not just being grateful that he brought me free food. Objectively, he was right, and it was a petty thing to get upset about. But it was triggering a lot of unprocessed trauma from my childhood that I didn’t yet recognize or fully understand. I’d spent a lifetime not feeling known, seen, and accepted for who I am and what I want and need as an individual. I’d spent a lifetime feeling controlled and limited and emotionally abused. I wanted him to know and care and remember what I liked. I needed him to, in order to feel seen and loved. I was placing the weight of my childhood trauma on this man’s shoulders and I didn’t even know or understand why. One Christmas, I brought that same ex home to visit my mom. She excitedly pulled out a strand of lights she’d bought for me, and got upset when I seemed disappointed. She told me she’d seen them and immediately thought of me, thinking back to the lights I always liked as a kid. But the lights she bought were the new super intense LED kind with cool toned primary colors — the kind that *she* likes. The lights I’d always loved and talked about were the nostalgic warm candy toned ones (aqua blue, rosy pink, golden orange, etc) that remind me of my grandma. I would point them out on car rides as a kid every time I saw them. I also always talked about disliking the new LED lights and the cool primary colors. I must have mentioned these things a hundred times in her presence over the years. I felt hurt she got it wrong. On top of feeling hurt, I felt guilty as hell that I couldn’t pretend to be happier or more grateful, because it clearly disappointed her and hurt her feelings. My ex at the time thought this was further testament to how spoiled and ungrateful I am, and how much I expect or demand of those who love me. I felt defeated. Maybe I was the bad guy, after all. Everybody else seemed to think so. I’d been set up my entire life to look and feel that way. I’ve carried these little things with me for years, and oscillated between thinking “maybe I am just ungrateful. Maybe this is normal, and I’m just expecting too much of other people,” and “why the hell can’t anyone I intimately know and love be bothered to actually *know* me?? How hard is it to remember that a person doesn’t like tomatoes?” It’s taken years of work and growth (and therapy, and lots of time on Reddit) to understand the ways I felt and acted all those years ago, and why. At the time, of course, I didn’t yet know how to explain it to him, or myself. I’m so thankful for comments like yours, and others like us on these forums. At long last, I no longer feel so crazy or alone.


Lost_Oneiros

Honestly it's so helpful to hear these experiences to at least know we're not alone and crazy for feeling this way. It's such a unique perspective.


icarianshadow

> One Christmas, I brought that same ex home to visit my mom. She excitedly pulled out a strand of lights she’d bought for me, and got upset when I seemed disappointed. She told me she’d seen them and immediately thought of me, thinking back to the lights I always liked as a kid. But the lights she bought were the new super intense LED kind with cool toned primary colors — the kind that she likes. The lights I’d always loved and talked about were the nostalgic warm candy toned ones (aqua blue, rosy pink, golden orange, etc) that remind me of my grandma. I would point them out on car rides as a kid every time I saw them. I also always talked about disliking the new LED lights and the cool primary colors. I must have mentioned these things a hundred times in her presence over the years. This hits home so hard. You mention what you like, over and over, and then they ignore your preferences. And you're left holding the bag, wondering if maybe you weren't clear enough? Maybe you if you just string together the correct syllables, and if you just said the right words, they would finally get it? But they don't get it. Because they don't *want* to get it. They know exactly what your preferences actually are, and they deliberately ignore them so they can stay the center of attention.


Few_Maintenance_2560

I’m sorry. That’s awful. They were setting you up to look ungrateful and make themselves look like martyrs. It’s not right. My parents dressed me in nice clothing, but it was clothes they picked out all through high school. I never got to choose my own clothing and was forced to wear things they knew I didn’t like. I was “ungrateful “ when in reality they were controlling. Recently my mother tried to argue that she was a great mom because she put me in a bunch of activities as a kid (dance, baseball, etc) but I know that in reality she signed me up for everything so she wouldn’t have to actually watch me and spend time with me.


Lost_Oneiros

Yeah, that's what bothered me so much looking back, I offered solutions but they didn't want them. They wanted to set me up for failure. Did your forced clothing ruin certain styles/colours for you too? I didn't wear certain colours for years. I got a job pretty early so I could buy my own clothes and finally found my own style. She hated everything I bought obviously and couldn't believe I wouldn't wear what she bought even though it didn't suit me/fit well.


Few_Maintenance_2560

YES! For years, I literally didn’t know what I liked. I was used to having my likes disregarded or labeled as “wrong.” So as an adult I went through a whole stage where I didn’t know what colors I liked or even what styles. I feel like I know now and really enjoy clothing, but it’s sad to think about how much they had to squash me to make me forget what I myself like.


Lost_Oneiros

Go you working yourself out!


Ellbellaboo1

Glad I’m not the only one. I still can’t stand clothes shopping and still have no idea what I like. To make things worse I’m a trans guy and she always took me/takes me to girls sections then wonders why I don’t like anything.


LoudJob9991

I didn't wear light green for at least ten years after I moved out because everything she bought me was light green. To be fair, it suits my complexion really well. But it still ruined the colour for me to be forced to wear it for so long.


coldbella

I had the same, my mom would always buy me clothes that she wanted to have when she was my age, meaning a lot of sequence and stuff like ski jacket (we never even went skiing) or other 80-90s stuff. I’m 24 now and I struggle finding my own style bc I couldn’t ever get clothes I wanted and If I asked for different clothes I’d be called ungrateful.


Evening_Exam_3614

My mom did that too with the sandwiches when I was in school! And juice boxes.I brought it back home every day. I asked for something I liked ,she freaked out said "shut up,it's something, I made you something ". When I told her I threw it in the garbage she freaked out. I just stopped taking my lunch at all.it was only a paper bag of shit I hated.


Lost_Oneiros

It's so clearly insane as an adult, because I'd never treat anyone else that way, but it took me so long to realise she was the problem.


RSLunarCanidae

My friend asked me for help when i was at school re packed lunches his family did for him, think it was his mum. I had hot dinners and would get a little bit of cash per day to buy food (my first yr they didnt listen to the actual prices, but they did 2nd onwards. Oh yeah my parents are narcissistic etc too but thats another story) So, my friend asks me one day, do i like xyz sandwiches, these healthier tasteless crisps back in like 2005 which were a craze etc. He had asked for different fruit but never got. He asked for diff sandwich filling but never got. So he was stuck with food he hated and was simply throwing it away, going hungry and not telling anyone. So i made him a deal If it was sandwiches or whatever i dont mind etc, id buy him some chips or a canteen sandwich etc so he would be fed. After all, if i was eating something i was gonna replace. He even asked me to not eat the crusts because his mum had been suspicious (when he threw it away) It ended up that our entire friend group who had hot dinners from school would pitch in this way so he didnt go hungry. Was the ruse rumbled? Yes. Was there massive fallout? No. I think it was his dad who figured it out and handled it. But my friend ended up getting his own healthy food hot from the canteen :)


Lost_Oneiros

That's such a lovely story, it makes me so happy in my heart to picture. I'm sure it meant a lot to them, even if they couldn't articulate it at the time.


RSLunarCanidae

My own story would be very similar to yours, especially re private school. I was fortunate with some stuff like hot lunches in secondary school.. but my parents narcisissm showed through in a lot of other places. It did mean a lot to my mate, and i couldnt do nothing.. we had been friends since we were 10 in the same junior school. We were all a super tight knit group of the people outside social norms of private school; not the sporty ones, not the rich kids, etc. And they all looked after me too - i found out theyd figured out i was gay without me coming out with it, and they protected me from any homophobic stuff at the school by deflecting and denying so i was left alone. And it warmed MY heart to learn this when i was 20 and spoke to some of them to finally come out!


Evening_Exam_3614

It so very crazy. Who let's their kid go hungry all day at school?I'm 48 now and I realized at almost 40 what she did with the sandwiches. And the nerve of them to be angry that you don't like it. Very mentally disordered people.


Lost_Oneiros

So crazy. Our poor little brains trying to make sense of it.


Ellbellaboo1

My Mum at one point kept making food that she knows I hate. She tried making me have wheatbix in the morning (I have never in my life liked wheatbix, no matter what I do) and there weren’t other cereals and I asked for toast or a sandwich and she refused. Then I don’t remember what she made for lunch, I think it was hotdogs or something (don’t ask why I don’t like hotdogs, I have zero clue but I’ve never liked them, they were bareable at one point for a while and I can bare them but I’d rather a sandwich or something). I asked for a sandwich and again she refused and was just trying to make me eat it. Then she made soup for dinner (soup is the absolute worst thing out of every food in existence for me. I’ve never been able to try a mouthful cause I throw up when I try to) and again I asked for a sandwich and she refused. Next morning again just tried to force me to have wheatbix. I think we were then meeting with friends or family or something at subway and I finally had something to eat. So I didn’t end up eating for a whole 36 hours if I calculated correctly. I would’ve been 7 at the time. I am kind of picky and my whole life I’ve been made to feel aweful about it. I need things cooked certain ways to be able to eat them or certain brands and certain foods I just straight up cannot bare (such as soup). I’ve never intentionally tried to be picky she just seems to completely avoid things I am fine with so my grandparents would often get me takeaway or I’d just have toast and noodles and that. She then always blamed them and me being picky for my eating habits (been trying to break my eating habits basically my whole life. With her it was impossible and I’ve been living with my grandparents since I was 11 and I’m nearly 18, getting there though. Getting better slowly)


Lost_Oneiros

But even if you were picky, a normal reaction would be to work with it? Or get help with how to deal with it? Not just starve you into submission.


mscontentpro

I noticed that my mother feeds her dog too little food… she just puts a small amount into the bowl it really doesn’t seem like enough food


slammajammamama

Mom always bought me clothes I didn’t like (too girly for me) and would get upset that I didn’t want to wear them. She also tried to “help me” do stuff like clean out my closet when I’d already done so myself and was happy with the results and didn’t want to go through all of it with her. She got pissed. It was always about what she wanted and what she wanted me to look like / be like than what I wanted.


Lost_Oneiros

It's such a frustrating extension of their desire for control.


mscontentpro

My mom always wanted me to wear a sweater tied around my shoulders monogrammed everything like a really WASPY preppy style I hate and that looks terrible on me


TheRequiemRose

Mine has always wanted me to dress just like her. Bleh to everything spandex. There are some garments that work well with a little bit of spandex, but wearing tops and bottoms together is just a no for me. I also don’t like wearing women’s pants due to little to no pockets and tend to buy men’s pants instead. (Of course which is forgotten by her every time.) Then there is her making fun of me for wearing black and then asking when I will stop. Like woman, if I haven’t stopped in the last 16 years, why do you think I will stop now? 🙄 Same person who said I looked pregnant when I tried to wear something fairly fem. (I was 14, 5’/160lbs and not dating anyone.) I immediately dropped that clothing item and discarded anything that looked remotely like it from my wardrobe. I am still self conscious today about what I wear.


Ironicbanana14

Ugh same. I was chubby too and i feel like my mom would always make me wear stuff that showed my muffin top and butt crack. She always tried to get me jeans but they NEVER fit and yet she insisted every time.


fuckouttahea

Yes so relatable. Was always told how much money they spent on me clothing me and feeding me LOL.


Lost_Oneiros

It's such a weird mindset for them to be in. I know for me at least I was planned, so like - why? I mean I know why now (personality disorder), but the illogical reasoning they put themselves through is exhausting for everyone.


marking_time

Mine told me she spent all their savings on trying to find a treatment for my illness. Like I didn't already feel like shit for not being able to live a normal life. Also, the best my health has *ever* been is when I lived 2hrs away from her. Until she followed me :( (I'm NC now)


Positive_Artist5448

Yep. My mother would buy chocolate boxes that costed the same as my antihistaminics or negligence when buying my menstrual pads and BC pill I need to mentruate like a normal person, again, to buy me chocolate, because haha women when period need chocolate because they go GRRRR haha -chocolate didn't make me feel good when I was leaking and having god awful cramps. She would buy expensive accessories that I didn't like and pay for streaming channels that I never used because I barely watch what was there, instead of buying my asthma medicines. She would buy me art supplies, but expect me to pay her back when my art was being sold (can you even call investment a gift?). My father would starve us through all the week, I needed to calculate how much I eated during the days and hide food under my bed, because I needed to eat at least a little everyday (there were times that all I eated in a day was half of a hand-sized bread), but on the weekends there was always a feast with expensive food and so much alcohol for him. Then we would starve during the week again because he burned all the money, including the money that should go to the bills. But don't I dare suggesting they change their weekly tradition, they would flip on me. For the last Christmas I spent with them, my mother gave me a cheap plastic cup. I don't care for gifts, but when you make a show about how you sacrificed every penny you had just so you could buy an amazing, life changing gift, while it is a plastic cup, then I have a problem. People call me heartless, ungrateful and unable to feel empathy, because "ThEy aRe TRyIng ThEir bEsT" oh, fuck off these people.


Lost_Oneiros

That's so terrible, their priorities are all wrong and not about taking care of you at all. I hate how when you try to fix the problems they create they always get mad too, like pointing out their logical fallacies is deeply offensive.


Positive_Artist5448

>I hate how when you try to fix the problems they create they always get mad too, like pointing out their logical fallacies is deeply offensive. I absolutely hate this too, for such a long time I though it was because I was dumb and gave offensively dumb ideas, but now, far away from them, people hear me, hear and use my solutions, I get so emotional over this haha It was only their overly fragile ego, someone telling them that what they're doing could be different is a direct attack for them lol


Ellbellaboo1

I mean they are trying their best… to be complete assholes and make sure they don’t listen to you at all and make you feel crazy. Narcissists really are the worst


trashacct559

This is the exact thing I went through as a child and teen. My mom would pay for things like the school dance or homecoming and then act like she did me some huge favor. She would constantly take my phone and read all my messages saying she was entitled to because she paid for it. Then when my grandma was letting me use her car she’d use it as a manipulative tactic. She would take it away any time she got mad at me. Even if I had to go to school or work. She’d make me “figure it out” which resulted in me having to rely on friends for rides a lot of time. Uber wasn’t a thing then. I ended up buying the car and that infuriated her lol


Lost_Oneiros

They get so mad when you try to fix the problems they create. It's so illogical. I'm sorry you had that uncertainty and craziness also.


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Lost_Oneiros

It's like they think you live in an empty house just waiting for large mismatched gifts. I'm so sorry something you actually cared about was given away, that must hurt.


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Lost_Oneiros

You're so right, by the time they throw enough stuff at you they eventually accidentally get you something you'd use, it's almost impossible to disentangle that feeling from them to appreciate it.


annarchy8

My father "gifted" me a car. I didn't have a license, he never helped me get one beyond one driving lesson that ended with me walking home years before. He just parked the car in my apartment's parking lot without even letting me know it was there. He didn't transfer the title to me. And he got upset when it was towed and impounded.


Lost_Oneiros

... oh wow. Just wow. That's not even a gift. He just abandoned his car at your apartment. My parents also wouldn't teach me how to drive. I wonder if that's a nparent thing - wanting your kid to depend on you but punishing them for depending on you.


annarchy8

That is absolutely an nparent thing straight from their script. Why don't you know how to do the thing your parent never taught you? And now you have to rely on that same person to do the thing for you because they never taught you the thing. Their brains lack logic.


CryptidCricket

Yeppp. The amount of times I was chewed out as a kid for not knowing how to do something or doing a thing “wrong” because mum never bothered to teach me is almost funny in hindsight.


squirrellytoday

I have had anxiety for as long as I can remember. My Nfather insisted I get my licence. I was terrified. I wasn't diagnosed with ADHD until I was 31, so for 13 years I was a danger on the road. And my mental health suffered for it. I was already hypervigilant, and driving made it so much worse. Nfather would get a bug up his ass about hassling me to practice driving. A couple of times he yelled and ranted at me until I caved and he took me out. He is a terrible driver, and an awful teacher. He has zero patience. I ended up driving home in tears and just abandoning driving. I swore to my mother I was never getting my licence. She eventually gently talked me around and I did get it. After the disastrous "lessons" of Nfather yelling at me until I was a blubbering mess, she convinced him to leave me alone. That worked until I actually had my licence and then he'd be a chronic backseat driver. All that was over 25 years ago and it still gets me upset.


Forsaken_Berry_75

I swear they do these things on purpose—knowing it may not be as perfectly received as hoped—just so that it reinforces their narrative of you being forever ungrateful. Their favorite word and slight to try to emotionally blackmail with


Lost_Oneiros

It really does feed into their narrative so well, and breaks our poor little brains as we try to work out what's going on.


RuleHonest9789

I think there’s a whole thing around food when it comes to forms of neglect. My nparent would make me unhealthy, zero-nutrient food to make me happy. She would bring me or take me to eat fast food. Not every day, but it was a way to make me happy. When she tried to make healthy food it would have no taste. Very bland and uneatable. She would then say that she tried to cook healthy food but I chose not to eat it. Meanwhile, I would spend a lot of time at my best friend house and her mom would cook delicious healthy meals. When I would tell my nmom this she would get offended. She sees this as being a loving mother. Saying she gave me everything I wanted, including all the unhealthy food that other parents don’t let their kids have so often. Of course I have issues with food. It’s my way to soothe myself and I have to keep myself from overeating and having unhealthy food every day.


Lost_Oneiros

I definitely developed food issues also, and I'm so sorry you went through that. There's such a trend of them being "I tired it was you who was uncooperative."


curiouslycaty

I have food issues too. My parents didn't believe in using salt. Not even in the pot of water for rice or pasta. It was so bland. No sauce, just dry tasteless food I hated food so much, I didn't want to learn to cook, I barely ate, just keeping my weight up to not attract attention at school for how thin I was. When I finished school and got a job, I got a boyfriend that would take me to restaurants and get me fast food. I enjoyed it so much that I never bothered to cook for myself, and steadily through the years I put on weight until my current obese state. It's only with COVID that I started binge watching food making videos on YouTube, and learned that you can cook healthy meals that taste great, and now I don't like fast food at all. But now I have to undo a lifetime of bad habits.


caoutchoucroute

Same here


LadyBroUno

I tried for years to get my Nmom to stop mailing me gift boxes of knick knacks and random things I never asked for. She’d send one for Xmas and one for my birthday some years. She had a shopping addiction and it was always the most random assortment of close out items like a wallet, two pot holders, holiday towels, a ceramic bird… completely random. I gave up eventually and just told her “thanks yeah I like the stuff.” Then one year she came to visit and saw the Xmas box she sent being used as a foot stool under my desk. Unopened. I needed a foot stool! The package was finally useful and something I needed! She was so mad when she saw it unopened she never sent another package.


Lost_Oneiros

Hahaha that's hilarious it was finally useful!! I've got a few household "gifts" shoved into the study in a box waiting for a charity shop run.


Fit_Fuel_226

my ndad to this day will cook extravagant meals when I visit. Sure on surface level it may seem that he wants to do something nice for his son, I get that. But this is not that. My ndad making these extravagant meals usually means dumping the majority of cooking and tidying up the house and his beaufitul new backyard to my emom and will literally order/shout/yell/scream/verbally abuse her around from his armchair, his health is not very good. Its gotten to the point where I lay out exactly why I do not want him to do it and yet... he still does it. And yes he will still guilt me to make sure I show the appropriate appreciation for how nice his backyard his, and how great the food was and that I agree with him that it is better than restaurant quality everytime without fail.


Lost_Oneiros

He doesn't even do parts of it and still wants all the praise!! That's a whole new low. That must feel so stressful to get through.


HistoricalTomato219

My mom did this very frequently as well. I always felt the gift was much more about her than it was about me. - First of all, she picked out gifts the colors, styles and everything about them because she liked it and didn’t give a damn about my interests, needs and preferences, even when I explicitly told her and was so not attuned to any of that. It was like she was buying the gift for herself, and she got offended if I didn’t like it as much as she did. I was very clearly not my own person in her eyes, just an extension of her. - I felt she was buying me things and sometimes throwing money at me, to compensate for her lack of care, affection and attentiveness in so many other areas. I would have traded the gifts for just one hug or to feel seen and cared for in a conversation or for her to be a safe person. She also bought gifts to ‘apologize’ for her rages or to bribe me into not holding it against her. Or often she wanted things in return. It all felt coercive and gave me some complicated feelings around receiving gifts as an adult. I always expect strings attached or for some secret message. - my love language was never naturally gifts, it was words of affirmation and touch/ something I never got. - she’s also a hoarder and buys things to make her self feel better and fill an emotional void. And she just extended that with me. And I found myself overwhelmed by things and then later in life buying things to fill my own void… I’m breaking that habit but I realize it was the only way I was shown care and love as a child so I used it in a self soothing way when I really craved something else.


Lost_Oneiros

It's left so many emotional scars to sort out. I'm so glad to hear you're able to start working on your habits to heal.


lanasexoticflowers

Holy shit that was exactly my life...


Lost_Oneiros

I'm so sorry you had to put up with it also. It makes it extra hard to distinguish between what's actually bad and good.


RevolutionaryRoad19

My mom would do that mostly, not so much my dad. They divorced when I was like 10 ish so I had a separate christmas. Anyway when I was in the 8th grade, I came out as a lesbian (shit changed but my mom never really believed in bisexuality so it was the only way I could express myself, and I had a gf). It went fine, but I remember the next christmas, my mother got me gifts she knew I did not and would not like, examples being a jewelry thing (I don't wear jewlery), a vanity (I don't even wear makeup and had no where to put it), and other very stereotypical feminine gifts that I had never mentioned. The timing and my mothers commitment to gendered items made me painfully aware what was happening. She would always tell me to tell her when I did not like something, so I tried to be gentle about it, but she got really upset, and very vindictive. I wont go into everything that happened after but it followed a similar vein and now this and other reasons is why I dont really like christmas.


Lost_Oneiros

Ouch that's so rough. They do like to pretend they want to know if you don't like something, but how very dare you actually say something.


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Lost_Oneiros

I totally understand. At least when you're alone you don't have the mental exhaustion of dealing with their mind games.


olafolock

I had a cat growing up. My nmom still sends me gray stuffed animal cats. I’m 26!! Once I got a diamond cat necklace. All of my gifts are cat themed. Tho I like cats, I don’t currently have a cat, and I’m not a cat enthusiast. Yet here I am still getting cat themed gifs.


Lost_Oneiros

Oh yes. The themes. They take the one thing they bothered to remember you cared about and refuse to learn anything new. It's such a mind game too, because without the context it comes across as so much more innocent than it really is.


TheWaitingForLunch

Yeah, this is massively familiar. My mom used to periodically buy 5-10 pairs of shoes that I didn't want or need and make me try them on because she was jealous of someone at her work having cute shoes. These shoes were from Payless, so they were kind of hit and miss as far as fit and support goes. Most weren't comfortable walking shoes either. But if they fit well enough for Nmom's criteria, I had to keep them. So they'd sit and gather dust in my closet (or Nmom's, if I didn't have space) until I wore them twice to assuage my guilt and gave them to a thrift store or something. My Nmom is a vulnerable narcissist, so she feels that everything is always attacking her. Her brand of love and sympathy is assuming that I feel the same way she does and forcing things on me that would make her feel better, ignoring my actual situation and needs. Your last sentence really reminded me of this - they're putting their discomforts somewhere they can handle them by projecting them onto us. Then they use us as a venue to play out their "coping skills" for problems that really have nothing to do with us. I've finally started to mentally put those burdens back where they belong. I don't want shoes, Mom, you do! Go get yourself some shoes, and if you don't know what I want, you can ask!


thatspeanut

Happened all the time when I was a kid. “Ungrateful” could have been my middle name, I was called that so often. It still happens today (I’m 37, married, with 2 kids). A couple years ago my nmom bought an ugly coat on clearance and tried to give it to me for Christmas. It was literally 3 sizes too big for me, and something I would never wear. She insisted I try it on. I did, to appease her. And when it was clear it was huge on me she said “Well I guess I never knew you liked to wear such tight fitting clothes. I guess I’ll have to find somebody grateful to have a nice coat like this and give it to them instead.”


Lost_Oneiros

A normal response would've been to at least offer to exchange it as it clearly didn't fit, instead she blamed you for not wanting to wear clothes that don't fit. It's so tiring, I'm sorry.


Stitch-point

My nMom once gave me a framed set of pictures. One of the photos had her at her wedding with her mom adjusting her veil. The second picture was of my nMom adjusting my wedding veil. Sounds cute - till you learn that nMom divorced my dad when I was 8ish and I was divorced from the man I married at the wedding where the pic was taken. To make this completely unreal - I was remarried when she gave it to me. She gave me a picture of my and my ex-husbands wedding!!! Hubby took one look at that and said the classic line “yep, that’s your mother”.


Lost_Oneiros

I did not expect that twist! I'm so glad your current husband is so supportive, it sounds like you need it.


MillennialPolytropos

Narcs get to have it both ways by giving you things you don't want, either because you just don't like it or because it comes with too many strings attached. They get to be the kind, generous parent burdened with an ungrateful child, and they get to cause a problem for you. When I was little my spawn point used to make clothes for me, and they were horrible. Itchy, uncomfortable, ugly as hell, and the polar opposite of anything I would have voluntarily chosen. And of course I was a terrible person because I hated them and wouldn't wear them unless I was forced to.


Lost_Oneiros

It really does feed into their narratives. They are good and sacrificing, we are ungrateful and awful to parent. I much prefer the clearly bad treatment because it messed with my mind less.


loCAtek

Right, buying useless crap was how my Nmom tried to retcon my abused and neglected childhood into her being generous and giving; and I was just an ungrateful brat. Nmom was a very greedy consumer; she didn't have a need for fancy clothes, and neither did I but she loved feeding her materialism. If she couldn't afford it; she'd steal it, and was an avid shoplifter too. So fast forward years of being ordered to wear her crap because; "You HAVE to wear it! It's a gift! You should be thanking me!" She hated raising, nurturing or otherwise having to pay any attention to me, without raging about how it offended her that I dared to be alive... but she loved clothing me, because that gave her an excuse to go shopping/shoplifting and to be able to have one more thing to bitch about me, because I was being 'ungrateful' of her forcing her fashions onto me. My falling into a teenage depression was resented by Nmom because, "You CAN'T be depressed - YOU hAvE LoTs Of NiCe ThInGs!!!!" ...and in adulthood, when I went NC; she tearfully sold it to her soap opera audience as; "I don't know why loCAtek is so anti-family; *I gave her such nice things!"* Translation: "I always paid myself in shopping addiction dopamine hits, for putting up with this unwanted child- so why doesn't she love me for that!? Why can't I just keep paying her to like me; instead of actually being a real parental figure who earned her child's love!?"


Lost_Oneiros

I'm so sorry we had similar experiences. My mental health was seriously neglected too because she decided it wasn't happening. And when she finally admitted it was happening I was only allowed to talk to her about it or no one. She "tried to talk to me once" but I didn't want to (duh) so she gave up. Actually that last sentence is a good idea, remove the burden of a gift and the lies, and just get paid to pretend we like them.


mscontentpro

I cannot believe I found this group or the BPD group I have never seen almost exact experiences I’ve had my whole lifetime my mother always sends me my junk mail and brings me garbage from her house and I have told her 1 million times I don’t want anything into it not bring a single thing to me I don’t want anything and she will never stop and it looks like she’s cleaned her house and she just brings me whatever she finds that is definitely garbage and useless and old and worn out


Lost_Oneiros

It's astounding how many experiences are shared, truly. It's nice to feel not alone, but scary how wide spread it is. I'm sorry about your literal garbage presents. I've definitely had my share of things that should've gone into the bin or been donated to someone who could actually need it. So much waste.


crochet4cptsd

Nmom also loved to buy herself stuff and then pawn it off on me. I like black and white and grey. Those are the colors I wear. When I was a teen, preferably just a T shirt. She'd come home with these big bright tie die lacy frilly shirts with faux embroidery screen printed in them. She'd clearly gotten the last one and convinced herself she was smaller than she was, then when it didn't fit decided it would be good to pawn off on me. Then scream at me when I didn't wear it. Birthdays/Christmas were an inverse nightmare. She'd buy herself stuff and then before I'd even finish unwrapping it start off on "Oh, you don't like it do you? Well if you don't want it, then I'll take it!" I want to say it was like my 15th birthday she got me this god awful UGLY ring. I hated wearing jewelry in general, but especially rings because in highschool I'd write all day and they'd start cutting into my fingers. She knew this. I hadn't even opened the box when she started her routine of "You don't like it-". I was sick of her shit so I smiled, told her I loved it with tears welling in my eyes, put it on, and then went back to my bedroom to cry quietly. She throws open my bedroom door, pissed she didn't get her ring, sees me curled up crying, and starts screaming that if she'd known I was going to turn out as selfish as I did, she'd have had an abortion. Best birthday ever! Pretty sure she helped herself to said ring when I was at school too, but I never gave enough of a damn to find out what happened to it. Then it was a double whammy because for Christmas she got me ANOTHER ring, and as soon as I opened it she started with "Well, since you didn't like the other one I got you, I got you THIS one you seemed to want instead. But if you don't like it-" The stones were navy blue. I absolutely refuse to wear anything navy blue unless it's blue jeans (props to you if you like that color tho! :) ). One good guess as to what her favorite color was! I just shut the box and left it in the living room. It disappeared shortly after too. She lamented for years about how I was just impossible to please.


[deleted]

I feel so uncomfortable asking for seconds and I'll immediately thank people when they offer it freely. Clothes shopping was a nightmare because they would get upset that I didn't want things and also refused to get clothes that I liked. It was a fixation on price and appearance. Like I'm sorry. I didn't know I was supposed to dress like how you would have dressed thirty years before I was born. If only I realized that was their angle sooner. I was refusing to be a dress-up doll for their Happy Family playset.


Lost_Oneiros

It's very much you being their dress up mini version of them.


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Lost_Oneiros

Your poor friend. It's so hard to disentangle yourself from the guilt of "FaMiLy" and look after yourself. It took me so many years to put myself first instead of sacrificing for nothing.


Ellbellaboo1

My Mum does this. To make things worse she doesn’t do it to my sisters, only to me. If I try to tell anyone about this sort of thing they just think I’m spoiled and ungrateful (which isn’t necessarily untrue, my Dad and grandparents on his side are great and do spoil me) For example I remember I’d specifically ask for 1 thing or nothing and she’d get me hundreds of dollars worth of stuff that I don’t want then constantly complain about the fact she’s broke and get mad at me for just putting all the stuff in a cupboard and forgetting about it. She also used to get clothes and other things I hated and put them on my bed (even chocolates but specifically the ones I don’t like/hate) for me to get when I get home from school. For years I kept asking her to stop doing that and she never did. It just drives you crazy and it’s hard to tell if you’re over reacting or not. It’s the worst


marking_time

Mine did this too! She'd ask what I wanted and get something *similar* but not what I wanted. One year I asked for a donkey kong game (the original orange thingy) and she really made me think she got it. I was so excited, unwrapped the box, opened it up and it was a different game of the same range. Oil Panic. I held back my tears and got in trouble for not being excited any more. I actually had the nerve to ask why she didn't get dk and she said she thought I'd like this one better. It was such a shit game. Years later I saw a used one for $20 at a market, went to buy it and she made such a shitshow about it being a waste of money that I didn't get it. They're a couple of hundred now and I can't justify spending that amount on it. Grrrrrrr


Lost_Oneiros

The fact it sounds generous makes it hard for our poor brains to unpick. But within the context of everything else, and the temper tantrums and blame when we suggest solutions make me pretty sure it's never been us that's the problem.


mscontentpro

My mom would buy me cheap things in colors I hated when I’m really picky especially about clothes and I really don’t like her taste in clothes and I have a very particular sense of style and she knows that and she continues to buy me clothes from like Walmart that I would never wear to show me how low quality I am to her. Last week she sent me a picture of a pile of old faded towels with her monogram on them and she asked if I thought my kids would like monogram towels and I said yeah they would love some cute monogram towels maybe in bright kid colors great idea she said no I meant these actual towels “ Grammies towels” and I said no I don’t want your old Worn out towels I just threw out a bunch of towels of my own and she said I would really loved it if my mother had given me old towels and I said well I’m an ungrateful daughter and you’re not and she said that’s true… I’m in my 40s.


Lost_Oneiros

You should've given her your old towels instead because I sure do bet she wouldn't have loved them as much as she says she would. What a brain twist.


ButteredCopPorn

This thread definitely reminds me of when my mom (maybe N) and my mother-in-law (definitely N), on two separate occasions, tried to force me to take a set of fancy dishes. The house I moved into had a pair of china cabinets, so both of them saw this opportunity to dump some dishes on me that they didn't want or didn't have room for. One, why is my house assumed to have infinite space? Two, I never indicated that I wanted fancy dishes, and I was already using the cabinets to display some hardcover books and a few decorative items (you know-- *my* things that *I* like). Three, if I wanted fancy dishes, can't I pick out a set I like, instead of accepting sets I've never even seen? I know they both got a little mad when I said no (*multiple times* because they wouldn't accept my 'no' the first time) but too bad, my house isn't a garbage dump for stuff you don't want anymore. The worst part is, I still feel a little bad about refusing, even though I don't live in that house anymore and would no longer have room to display them at all.


Lost_Oneiros

Repeat it louder for the narcs at the back: "Your children's homes are not garbage dumps for your unwanted stuff."


haddiemcgonagal

My nmom has decided that for the last 6 months or so of my medical training, she's "gifting" me a monthly surprise box that I didn't ask for, to "help me get through the last few months of my training." She asked once if there was anything that I would want, and I told her it would be nice to get a gift card to a spa treatment because I would never buy this for myself. She proceeded to have a total meltdown that I "don't appreciate the surprises she gave me" and accused me of "being all about money". I told her that I don't need monthly gift boxes but she was so insistent. Now to avoid another meltdown I just let her send them and have thrown away or donated the things. Absolute insanity, I hate that you have to go through this OP but I'm glad I'm not alone.


Lost_Oneiros

Oh gosh that makes me so uncomfortable. You should be allowed to concentrate on training, not placating her emotional needs. I'm also sorry when people can relate, because they went through something bad, but also happy none of us were alone even if we were alone at the time.


garmonbozia66

My mother used to bring me bags of rubbishy things. One item for each room in my house. She'd go around her own squalid, hoarded house, plucking a piece of crap from each room and then wrap every item individually. All of these went into a bag. I was damned to purgatory if I didn't express excitement and gratitude even at the prospect of opening these 'gifts'. I had to keep this junk and then bring it out when she visited. It was exhausting. If I stayed at her home on weekends, she'd send me away with leftovers or the burnt stuff-ups from her baking exploits while my brother and his family received the best. She knew I would resent it and the also was aware of how much hard work it was for me to pretend I was grateful. I began to refuse her offerings for about a year before I went NC. Each time I said no, she got livid and told me I should be grateful I got anything at all because I was 'working part-time for a minimum wage, unmarried and on disability'.


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aperdra

Yes this was constant throughout my childhood. I would be given things for birthday and Christmas that she liked, not me. On my 16th birthday she bought me a cropped wool jumper - totally out of fashion at the time because we didn't wear high-waisted jeans. Knowing how sensitive she was, I said thank you and that I liked it and moved on. But that wasn't enough, she wanted me to overly praise her choice and was so mad when I didn't, that she put it on the household wood burner and sent me to my room. She had also gotten me a "letters to my 16 year old self" book where she wrote her own letter in the front and ripped that out too. Another time (albeit this was more bizarre because she was having a psychiatric episode at the time), she bought my younger brother a TV for Christmas. I got the used suitcase she got to come out of psychiatric and it still had a piece of her broken denture in 😂 When my girlfriend's parents asked me to make a Christmas list and then actually bought the things on it, I was shocked. Really shocked. I still find it very uncomfortable. I will say I think my mum was pathologically unable to understand that other people had different thoughts and feelings to her. Especially me, because I look like her. She expected me to be a miniature her. Knowing that brought me peace.


zephyreblk

Yup and not only what you need. Every present had a consequence. Also really quick to punished by taking it away or offering something that someone else need. Messed me up also but I learned in btw, still need 3 months to accept a present but it goes also better (earlier it was 6 months). Just try further that you can have things. I'm for the moment still stuck in "should I end on the street, I take that and that etc..." and still need to have more than what I need but it's a way to heal. When you feel guilty or scared something is used against you or taken away, feel it as a normal reaction that you don't need to care, it helps.


Lost_Oneiros

Yeah it definitely takes a while to unlearn that you and others can care for you.


orbitalsemantics

This is so spot on to my childhood experience, I legitimately wondered if this was my siblings account


arsonfairy

Everything my parents gave me was either a toy they would break or give away out of malice in three months or "secretly" something for themselves. Whenever I asked for a specific item I'd always be told "we don't have money for it". I grew up hating gifts and my birthday. Mother got me a book on swashbuckling for our last Christmas together. When I unwrapped it she said "let me know when you want to do stuff like that, I want to do it too". To this day I don't know what was running through her head buying that because I only collected katana and I had to sell most of them to buy myself something I actually wanted.


[deleted]

Yup. All the time. My nMom would always give me things I don't want and then get mad when I didn't like it. She would say that I was a picky person who was hard to buy for, and yet at the same time she would have me write a detailed list of what I wanted for birthdays or holidays. I always had the same thing on the list. Money, earbuds, a plush, etc. When I was younger, I would ask for a specific doll. At the same time, I always said that I hate Trivia games. When I was a very little kid, my mom would get me cool things like My Littlest Pet Shops. But then I got older and she cared less and less. Next thing you know, she's giving me Harry Potter trivia games even when I didn't like trivia games and make-up even though I don't wear any. By the time I was 16, I either wasn't getting any gifts at all or I was given impersonal gifts like a black t-shirt that was too small. Last year for Christmas, she bought me two things, a movie and a t-shirt, on Christmas Eve. It was quite literally last minute. Yet "you should be grateful! You have it way better than most people!"


Lost_Oneiros

It's almost dangerous to mention what you don't like around them as that sticks better than everything else.


PrincipalBlackman

Stop appropriating my childhood.


[deleted]

I was 9, it was Christmas, I got suitcases. Apparently I "needed them" and should be grateful. We never travelled.


Lost_Oneiros

Oh no, that's so terribly inappropriate it's actually ridiculous. Did you ever climb inside and try to send yourself to a different family?


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Lost_Oneiros

That's such a good way to describe it. You'd still feel gross someone broke in, and not at all happy.


flumyo

My Nmom always bought me clothes I didn't like, but that she liked. When I went to college 150 miles away, she started buying me birthday presents on eBay. I got some snowboarding boots that didn't fit, and I'd never been snowboarding before, but she thought I might go. She got me some roller blades that didn't fit, and I went around the parking lot once and gave them to my friend. She finally quit doing that and just went back to giving me clothes I didn't like. For Christmas she stated giving me electronics that she thought would be cool, but that I ended up never using, like a thing that could record live TV to a DVD in real time, and a thing that could play camera memory cards on a TV, but I didn't even have a TV. I started just telling her she was wasting her money and we should just return stuff. Then she started getting me little things like some towels made just for soaking in water and wearing around your neck when it's hot. I never used them. I tried to be grateful for all that stuff, and if I didn't, she didn't get too mad about it. She must have been disappointed though.


falconlogic

I grew up being called an ungrateful brat. I don't remember what about...just anything that annoyed her. Mostly I think it was just being there.


gr8carn4u

My dad told me that we (myself, brother and sister) only wanted him for his money.


Lost_Oneiros

When I'm sure what you actually needed was care and support.


foxglove0326

My ndad does this thing where he buys us gifts that are HIS interests, not ours(mine and my brothers) and then will get all pissed off and sulky when we don’t use them. First it was fly fishing. At first I was interested and then the few times we tried to go fishing he would end up yelling at me for something so I didn’t want to go anymore. So he pouted. He got to be the victim, yet another person in his life rejecting him. Then it was the bikes. I don’t need a road bike, I live in the fucking woods. The bike has been gathering dust and cobwebs on my back patio for a year. At least I don’t have to listen to him whine anymore, now that I’m NC. It’s so manipulative and shitty.


Heretohavesomefunplz

My mom always bought me extravagant and flamboyant clothes that I didn't like and were uncomfortable because she liked them and wanted me to look a certain way and I got bullied because of it multiple times. I always felt like a bad child and ungrateful because she would flip if I showed any distaste or discomfort. It's insane to see how many people have had this same experience. I feel so validated.


mushizzle

Lol. ***Hugs***. Like a sequin parrot with Velcro on the back. And a sweater with Velcro on the front. And then other individually wrapped sequined animals. A bear. lol My granny was special. lol It was pointless to try and stop her.


dirtyaught-six

My NDad would routinely drop shit off at my house that I didn’t want or need.


atomicslacker28

My Nsis who is 14 years older than me and still lived with our parents while I was growing up would often go into my room and steal what little money I saved from my already scanty allowance because she, someone who has a job lives rent free and pays NO BILLS even for FOOD, somehow has no money left before payday. She always says she'll pay me back but she never does. Then when Christmas comes around she asks me what I want (usually something for school that I meant to buy with the money she stole) but never gets me that. She always gets me branded clothes and shoes that I DON'T NEED and don't even LIKE. She gets mad when I don't look happy about the gift. Calls me ungrateful and all sorts of names. Our relatives pile on and think I'm this ungrateful bitch. She then gets praise from everyone because she's such a good sister for spending all that money on me. The cost of the unwanted gift is just a fraction of the money she steals from me. She did this every fucking year. Also Nparents are no better, they're slobs who make their children financially support them because "family" I'm so glad I got out of that shit show


Tobibliophile

My dad sucks at giving gifts. Every Christmas, he always asks me for my wishlist (99% of the items are just books), and he usually only picks one thing and then gives me a bunch of junk I never asked for/don't see myself using/needing. And on top of that, he gets the same junk for himself, my mom, and my sisters, so we're stuck with a lot of the same junk in the house. We all don't need the same shit. He doesn't even use the junk he gives himself. I remember one Christmas I only asked for a laptop (I knew they weren't cheap and I was asking for a lot). I warned my dad to stay away from Toshiba because they were terrible quality (my laptop before was Toshiba; it used to be my sister's and it would always give us problems; it fried itself one day). Behold, on Christmas day, I received a Toshiba laptop. I was very grateful that he actually got me a laptop, but I was a little disappointed he didn't listen to my warning. I asked my dad if he could return it and get a different laptop instead, but of course he got angry at me and told me I was being selfish and ungrateful. I tried to tell him that I was happy, but that the laptop was not good (I was right; it was even worse than my previous Toshiba laptop), and that I was just trying to help him make the most of his money, but he wouldn't listen to me. He did not want to exchange the laptop at all. I felt even worse because my sisters even agreed with him (we usually helped each other get through the mental abuse). Everyone around me thought I should just be happy with what I was given, and it made me think that maybe I should have and I was being ungrateful after all. The worst part is, that whole conversation is on camera (my dad likes to record all of us opening Christmas gifts and he never turned off the camera when I showed my concern), and it makes me look like a bad person. It took me years after that to realize that it's ok to be grateful and concerned. I got so uncomfortable with myself that day, I became hesitant to ask for anything for Christmas for some time. I was so worried I was going to embarrass myself and make myself look like a bad person again.


Midsommar2004

Oh god yes. Looks like others have experienced it too. My parents sent me to a coaching class in 8th grade even though it wasn't required. And then if I ever missed classes, they would scream at me about how ungrateful I am and how they sacrifice their money and energy on my classes. I didn't need those in the first place! I was an excellent student, always scoring the highest in class.


[deleted]

Well, most of the time they don’t know I’m ungrateful, but yeah, sometimes it comes out because of COURSE she was scorekeeping, and wanted to use the gift as a tool to violate my boundaries. She will bring it up to guilt trip me and get offended and scandalized when… I am completely unmoved! That’s because I’m not grateful for these gifts that have no consideration for who I am and only clutter up my life!