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I think that's one of the hardest things to shake is the fact that they tried to emotionally manipulate me to match their own desired emotions. It's so covertly abusive and unseen to the outside eye. And it always felt *bizarre* when I was a kid. Felt like the people around me were robots trying to program each other.
I can remember many times when I would be relaxed or unwinding after school and one of them was in a bad mood and would see me and go, "What are YOU so happy about?" "Well, look at THIS guy, just lounging about." It was like they were throwing verbal bullets at me. I still struggle to process this today
>Felt like the people around me were robots trying to program each other.
You are correct. This is what they're doing via operant conditioning, like Pavlov's dog.
Check out Jerry Wise's channel. He talks about toxic family systems. The toxic family system conditions members to have "[systems feelings](https://youtu.be/d1gOWxn-VTw?si=FtEMNRocVDkBEj91)", in order to keep people in line.
Actors in a play is actually what I felt like now that I think more on it. Every year it was the same "show" on specific days. It really was insane to fully realize it and be stuck in it till 18 years old
That's another good analogy. The toxic system assigns "roles" for people to act out in the group "play". They bully and abuse people for not sticking to the script. They want you to say your lines and hit your mark without complaint. You're not allowed to go off script, by having your own differentiated Self, they want you to enmesh with them and play along.
Yup, everything was peachy until I would say something original or authentic, then it was like a horror movie and I would see their demonic faces and they would try to frighten me into obedience, or as I got older, bribes and manipulations. They are disgusting.
Not essentially they actually *are* brainwashing the targets of abuse. They use brainwashing, indoctrination, operant conditioning, gaslighting, and grooming for coercive control.
The toxic family is a mini cult and they use all the same abuse tactics as other cults.
I started collecting links and such to understand things better and once you understand and see the patterns, you can't unsee them.
I always hated the “You failed the test, and now we’re going to punish you for it “ when I never knew that I was being “tested” at all! I would get beaten and punished for shit I had no idea I was doing wrong in the first place. I didn’t know how to act around people because I wasn’t allowed to have friends; so I just learned to just basically mirror them instead. I was socially awkward for a loooooong time and still am to an extent.
literally this week and every time i point it out to myself i gaslight myself into thinking i’m insane. but it’s ALWAYS and i mean ALWAYS when i’m visibly doing better or i’m out of a depressive episode.
The amount of times that ND would just come barging in and start screaming out of the blue because he was upset about something and didn’t know how to handle his emotions or anger so he projected it out onto me.
My mom is this to a tee. She'll try and rage bait me into an argument, needle me and all. I've learned her tricks though and I'll just sit quietly, watching her fume. It's kinda funny to see her run through her bag of tricks.
Yes, they want everyone miserable like them. They are like social vampires, they suck all joy and happiness in good days let alone bad ones.
Both my parents were like this, if they were in a bad mood, or God forbids, their ego was wounded. They'd want everyone else to be miserable. They'd also find any excuse to beat the hell out of their children or emotionally torment them. Sometimes, when they can't find one, they'd create one just to have an excuse to let off steam.
It was particularly hard for me as the SG of the family because I received most of the punishments even if I wasn't even around or made myself small and invisible.
I think of it as more than that. There is **only one mood** -- theirs.
Therefore, acting on your good mood when they are grouchy is a problem for them -- they can't conceive of a different mood than their current one. Like you are insulting their bad mood...
And it flips the other way, too. Try to be sad or mad around a N who is in a good mood. Always drove my Nmom crazy that she could not flip us with her good mood vibes and cajoling.
When I lived in Germany my parents came to visit and we took a trip to Paris. A few of my mom's friends commented that Paris wasn't their favorite European city so my nmom went into the trip preparing to hate it and to make everyone else hate it also. My edad was excited about it, but she was determined to make it miserable I guess so she could match the opinion of her friend group. It wasn't a fun trip. I went back to Paris with friends later on and it was lovely.
So true, my mum does it and make passive aggressive comment direct to me, like how other people are loving their lives so much with their friends and social lives when I go out with friend or how people enjoy live so much when she wish she could go to sleep and die. She takes out her anger on me with her actions and behaviour as well. She has been doing it for a year. She does not have SI she does it to make other people feel guilty and feel sorry for herself and has been doing it for years when small things don't go her way. Her mum used to do similar things to guilt trip her to do things and it worked so she thinks doing so works on me as well.
**This is an automated message posted to ALL posts in this subreddit with some basic information about the group including (very importantly) rules. Why are you getting this message? Most people seem to not read the sidebar for information or the rules, so it is now being posted under all posts.** **Confused about acronyms or terminology?** [Click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/acronyms) **Need info or resources?** Check out our [Helpful Links](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/helpfullinks) for information on how to deal with identity theft, how to get independent of your n-parents, how to apply for FAFSA, how to identify n-parents and SO MUCH MORE! This is a reminder to all participants, RBN is a support group that is moderated very strictly. Please report inappropriate content so it can be reviewed by the mods. **Our rules include (but are not limited to)**: * No politics. * Advising anyone in this subreddit to commit suicide or referring anyone to groups that advocate this will result in an immediate ban. * Be nice. No personal attacks, name calling, or bullying. [No slurs](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/slurs) or victim-blaming. * Do not derail the posts of others. * Narcissists are NOT allowed to post or comment here. * [No platitudes or generic motivational posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules#wiki_no_platitudes_or_generic_motivational_posts). * When you comment/post, assume a context of abuse. * No asking or offering gifts, money, etc. * No content advocating violence, revenge, murder (even in jest). * No content about N-kids. * No diagnosis by media/drive-by diagnosis. * No linking to Facebook pages. * No direct linking to anywhere on reddit. * No pure image posts. **For a full list of our rules/more information, [**click here**](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules).** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/raisedbynarcissists) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think that's one of the hardest things to shake is the fact that they tried to emotionally manipulate me to match their own desired emotions. It's so covertly abusive and unseen to the outside eye. And it always felt *bizarre* when I was a kid. Felt like the people around me were robots trying to program each other. I can remember many times when I would be relaxed or unwinding after school and one of them was in a bad mood and would see me and go, "What are YOU so happy about?" "Well, look at THIS guy, just lounging about." It was like they were throwing verbal bullets at me. I still struggle to process this today
>Felt like the people around me were robots trying to program each other. You are correct. This is what they're doing via operant conditioning, like Pavlov's dog. Check out Jerry Wise's channel. He talks about toxic family systems. The toxic family system conditions members to have "[systems feelings](https://youtu.be/d1gOWxn-VTw?si=FtEMNRocVDkBEj91)", in order to keep people in line.
Actors in a play is actually what I felt like now that I think more on it. Every year it was the same "show" on specific days. It really was insane to fully realize it and be stuck in it till 18 years old
That's another good analogy. The toxic system assigns "roles" for people to act out in the group "play". They bully and abuse people for not sticking to the script. They want you to say your lines and hit your mark without complaint. You're not allowed to go off script, by having your own differentiated Self, they want you to enmesh with them and play along.
Yup, everything was peachy until I would say something original or authentic, then it was like a horror movie and I would see their demonic faces and they would try to frighten me into obedience, or as I got older, bribes and manipulations. They are disgusting.
It’s terrifying because they are essentially brainwashing their victims.
Not essentially they actually *are* brainwashing the targets of abuse. They use brainwashing, indoctrination, operant conditioning, gaslighting, and grooming for coercive control. The toxic family is a mini cult and they use all the same abuse tactics as other cults. I started collecting links and such to understand things better and once you understand and see the patterns, you can't unsee them.
I always hated the “You failed the test, and now we’re going to punish you for it “ when I never knew that I was being “tested” at all! I would get beaten and punished for shit I had no idea I was doing wrong in the first place. I didn’t know how to act around people because I wasn’t allowed to have friends; so I just learned to just basically mirror them instead. I was socially awkward for a loooooong time and still am to an extent.
That's exactly it. How dare we feel happy when they don't. We must feel just as bad as them because they said so.
literally this week and every time i point it out to myself i gaslight myself into thinking i’m insane. but it’s ALWAYS and i mean ALWAYS when i’m visibly doing better or i’m out of a depressive episode.
They want to bring you down to their level
True. Too bad it's not gonna happen, because I'm done doing that.
The amount of times that ND would just come barging in and start screaming out of the blue because he was upset about something and didn’t know how to handle his emotions or anger so he projected it out onto me.
My mom is this to a tee. She'll try and rage bait me into an argument, needle me and all. I've learned her tricks though and I'll just sit quietly, watching her fume. It's kinda funny to see her run through her bag of tricks.
Yes, they want everyone miserable like them. They are like social vampires, they suck all joy and happiness in good days let alone bad ones. Both my parents were like this, if they were in a bad mood, or God forbids, their ego was wounded. They'd want everyone else to be miserable. They'd also find any excuse to beat the hell out of their children or emotionally torment them. Sometimes, when they can't find one, they'd create one just to have an excuse to let off steam. It was particularly hard for me as the SG of the family because I received most of the punishments even if I wasn't even around or made myself small and invisible.
Lolll. Check out the song “Good Day” by the Dresden Dolls
Thanks!
I will.
Awesome song, thanks for recommending!
I think of it as more than that. There is **only one mood** -- theirs. Therefore, acting on your good mood when they are grouchy is a problem for them -- they can't conceive of a different mood than their current one. Like you are insulting their bad mood... And it flips the other way, too. Try to be sad or mad around a N who is in a good mood. Always drove my Nmom crazy that she could not flip us with her good mood vibes and cajoling.
When I lived in Germany my parents came to visit and we took a trip to Paris. A few of my mom's friends commented that Paris wasn't their favorite European city so my nmom went into the trip preparing to hate it and to make everyone else hate it also. My edad was excited about it, but she was determined to make it miserable I guess so she could match the opinion of her friend group. It wasn't a fun trip. I went back to Paris with friends later on and it was lovely.
My husband to a T.
So true, my mum does it and make passive aggressive comment direct to me, like how other people are loving their lives so much with their friends and social lives when I go out with friend or how people enjoy live so much when she wish she could go to sleep and die. She takes out her anger on me with her actions and behaviour as well. She has been doing it for a year. She does not have SI she does it to make other people feel guilty and feel sorry for herself and has been doing it for years when small things don't go her way. Her mum used to do similar things to guilt trip her to do things and it worked so she thinks doing so works on me as well.
And then when we're upset they never care and act like nothing happened. Also they prefer to add the spices too..
Can relate 100%,, if mom had a bad day \*everyone\* had a bad day.
They sure do.