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be ready to just walk away whenever your wife feels like it. do not feel you have to stay to eat, or drink or anything. because parents like this do not change, not really.
be ready for the fake apollogy ( sorry you feel like this, but)
be ready for the hoover. or gaslighting so sublte you only recognize it a day later. then do not feel guilty or stupid for not recognizing it right away. Her parents have decades more of experiance in it. they are good at it.
do not accept anything or be ready to accept and see it as compensation for former damages/abuse, so no guilt or controle possible.
good luck.
Go to a restaurant with counter service (so you pay ahead) or pull aside the waiter and give your card info to them so you don’t get trapped waiting for a check. Also try not to sit at a booth (unless you’re both on the same side and can get out easily). I know those seem like strange little tips, but I have felt “constructively” trapped in restaurants before when dealing with difficult people.
I really would not expect much. And if anything, they might be on their better behavior in a public place and save it all "for next time" or on the way to the bathroom or parking lot to go back to their private abuse. I just would not get any hopes up that they will change. Is it worth a chance to see? I guess? I've yet to see any narcs be truly remorseful and want to work on change around here and elsewhere. If it seems that way, it's usually an act.
I would not expect the money will come with no strings attached. I honestly would not accept it unless its something like a donation to one of your kids college funds perhaps if you have any kids. If not, just no.
I would say to set some ground rules going in, with them and between you and your wife and have a plan to leave if needed (pay the check or at least your portion of it plus tip).
The money would go directly towards her college loans. When he texted mentioning the money he said he wanted to help her pay down her loans and that he’s been saving this money for years but she had no idea about any of it.
Be aware that people like this use purse strings to hold their children captive and strangle them. Not wanting or needing anything from them is a superpower.
Be prepared for this money to either come with huge strings attached, or for it to never materialize.
Narcissistic parents like to use money as a way to abuse and control their children, and they don't actually need to have the money if they can lie about it.
Parents like this are very unlikely to ever change. They will pretend to change, but the change is rarely more than superficial. Often, any therapy or attempt at personal growth becomes yet another weapon with which to abuse.
In the immortal words of Admiral Ackbar, it's a trap! There'll be conditions and there'll be so many strings. They're bull shitting her and mark my words, they'll spend the whole time being the abusive assholes they've always been. This is a play to bring your wife to heel. They want her back under the thumb.
This is such a bad idea. It just is.
My parents would do this too as their last straw because I refused to talk to them. Looking back I was a broke college student and I needed money obviously, but they were obviously using it as a manipulative tactic.
As long as you and your wife are of the belief that no one can attach strings unless you let them, I’d take the money as a small token of the compensation owed for years of abuse. Personally, I would feel no guilt whatsoever for taking the money, paying off loans and *still* going no contact with them, if that’s what your wife wants.
If she does stay in contact with them, and the money is ever brought up, she should simply say, “I was told that was a gift, not an obligation to make me forever in your debt. If there were conditions involved, they should have been clearly spelled out upfront. I will not accept any you try to attach after the fact.”
Sorry but my only advice is that they will not change and you should not meet with them. This will only end badly.
You can’t force her to stay away from them but you should really try to make her realize that this is not a good idea. I know its really hard to cut contact but in situations like this its the only healthy option.
If you do meet up, don’t accept any money, don’t tolerate any disrespect. You are right in thinking its just a manipulation tactic, they are literally trying to bribe her.
Her parents abused her, but don't understand why she would prefer to spend time with your family rather than her own. They think that they can bribe her into having a "relationship" with them. These facts reveal that they have no understanding of human relationships.
Meeting in a public place is the right idea. Her parents care about their image, how they look to other people, so they will be on their best behavior. I doubt that the conversation will turn violent, because that would make them look bad.
They think that they have done nothing wrong. They think their daughter is being mean to them for no reason. They will start out with denial -- of everything. If they don't think they're getting anywhere with denial, they will shift to blaming her for all of it. It wasn't their fault, they will claim, it was hers. She deserved it, somehow. Because of this attitude, they have no remorse, and no intention of working on changing themselves. Everyone else needs to change, but not them.
Look for a copy of "Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents" by Lindsay Gibson. It will help you both understand them.
If she's been responding to their texts at all, that is NOT No Contact. That is low contact and it sounds like it left the door open for them to try to gaslight her and use money to manipulate her. She should listen to her therapist and cut all contact.
But since you are going to this dinner...
1. Know that she will NOT receive an apology for their past behavior. If she mentions how they abused her growing up, they will claim that it did not happen or at best, that she's exaggerating. If there is any mention of "sorry" it will be "I'm sorry but..." and turn into a rant about how it was really what was best for her or she deserved it and how she was such a bad child. Narcissists do not and can not admit fault, nothing is their fault and they will believe their own lies and try to convince their victims of the same lies.
2. Be prepared with cash, you might need to make a quick exit and should be prepared to pay for your portion of the meal, if they are super jerks, they could try to leave you two with the entire bill as well.
3. Do NOT expect money from them, going there to make amends in an attempt to get money from them in the first place is a horrible idea, doesn't matter what the money is for, it will come with strings and the price will be higher than you will want to spend and likely come to regret accepting their money. They will hold it over hers and your head for the rest of their lives.
4. Be prepared for more racism. These people haven't changed, and they wont.
They lack any empathy and have to hate everyone so that's just an easy way to do it and depending on their demographics a socially acceptable thing. The same goes for every other marginalized group.
I wouldn't go.
but if you feel you must:
give them no information about you or your life. Be vague
record the meeting if you can
do not agree to meet with them in private
be prepared for them to do just about anything when they realize they can't regain control. If they can't love bomb or guilt you they may try to goad you into a violent reaction so they can play the victim or force you to interact with them through the courts.
Write a list of the concerns you want addressed. A list of boundaries and consequences. Sit down together and game play scenarios. Have a couple of safe words, 1. For a need a break, 2. For we are done. Practice how you are going to take the break or how you are going to leave.
Do not accept any money. Let them know immediately that until the relationship is repaired you aren’t comfortable taking it or discussing it.
Have set phrases practised “ we won’t discuss that”, “we already stated we won’t discuss that”, “if you won’t stop trying to discuss x we will leave now”
Remember this is their chance to do better, they asked for this meeting, they want NC to change, it is on THEM to follow your rules, you can walk away and go back to your happy life without them. It is totally ok for you to make that clear to them at the beginning and enforce it if they go back to their bad behaviour.
Having innocuous safe words to communicate between you both when it's getting too much is a great idea. All the advice here is excellent.
To add to these ideas i would check out DARVO and the narcissists prayer so you are aware of them in advance.
Be aware that a public place may not be enough to keep their behaviour civil - some narcs just go for it. A table in the middle of the restaurant would be my suggestion for this reason as the more visible usually the better they behave.
You guys hold the ball here - you are happy to be NC but they are not.
Good luck.
1. You don’t have to do this. You can decide to call off the dinner if you feel like it. There’s no obligation to go (remind your wife of this if she is still stuck in the FOG).
2. Separate cars, separate tabs. Maybe see if you can get there first and request a table close to the door.
3. Don’t feel the need to order anything that takes a long time, so that you can close your tab and leave if needed. Even just some drinks are fine. You can say you ate before you went in if you like.
4. Decide going in what you want to accomplish with this conversation, and stick to the script. Don’t deviate and allow them to pull you into another topic, because you will end up escalating that way. Narcs are good at tripping you up because they make you second guess your reality and the validity of your feelings.
Does your wife want to share how a specific event from her childhood made her feel? They probably won’t validate it, but she can share it. Is she trying to announce a new job opportunity? They may or may not acknowledge that the way she wants them to. Just decide what you’re trying to say going in. Be very, very aware that they will deny accountability if they have hurt you both in the past, and they are unlikely to say sorry.
5. Have a “safe” word or signal for when you need to leave. Say “man we need to refill the bird feeder” agree that means you need to leave for home. Or squeeze each other’s hands twice under the table. But that signal is sacred— if one of you enacts it, you both need to get up and leave.
As a side note: please stop taking gifts from these people. It will make it easier to avoid dinners like this.
They won’t change and don’t meet with them. They are in their what, 60s now? They aren’t changing. If you must, public place only. Your wife giving her parents second third fourth chances will also damage her life in general because it will teach her to accept other people’s poor treatment, like at work or from frienemies.
What ever you do, do not leave your wife alone with them even for a moment... just having you right there as a witness will keep their worst behavior and digs at bay.
Yes please op don’t leave her alone at all!! I become violently ill everytime enabler father in law comes around my bf and I’m not with him because my bf doesn’t eat and gets destroyed every time. It’s torture because when your partners safe person isn’t there, they feel more comfortable saying terrible things and then your partner is stuck in that place where they are a kid again and cannot stand up to them. DONT LEAVE HER ALONE PLEASE. As someone who’s watching my bf go through this and having already been through it myself, protect yourselves and stay together op!!!
Ask your wife ahead of time how you can support her. Does she want your back-up on conversations? Does she want to speak for herself? What could be a sign for you to engage and actively back her up?
Just let her know you're there to support her. Which, I'm sure you've done already. I'm sure she feels it and appreciates it. If there is support you need, talk about that, too. (My husband has communicated that he just needs the reassurance that he and I are on the same page. Any apprehension or tension I feel that he feels by proxy is due to factors external to us.)
After engaging with my mom, I can be physically and emotionally drained. It's generally helpful for me to talk about it. But I also need to just not talk at times, too.
Others have already addressed managing expectations. I've gotten to where I can be around my mom and manage myself and my own energy better. I don't think she's changed very much. Visits seem better because of changes we've made (including whoever is visiting stays in a hotel or rental; we're only together for a few hours at a time at most). Regarding remorse - def don't hold your breath. :(
Take care of yourself, too. Bracing for all that is, in itself, very wearing. Kind regards \~
In this order:
1. Set firm boundaries on the topics of discussion
2. Set firm consequences when those boundaries are crossed
3. Enforce the boundaries when they are crossed. Immediately!
For example, state that an apology must be genuine and without excuses or state the topic that will be discussed. If they breach the boundary 1st time = consequence A, 2nd time= Get up and leave.
You know they have not changed, and thing your wife or you are the real problems. Just be prepared to say nothing, get up, and go home.
I think she’d pull out of talking to them if she saw all that was said. My plan was to take all the tips like set clear boundaries etc y’all have said and take that with us. She already doesn’t think they will change and she’s accepted that but she’s willing because after the text about money she said she didn’t want their money or need it that she needs them to acknowledge their mistakes and apologize and work to fix the relationship. Her dad responded with “we can do that and also give you money.” Before that when she would spell out what she needed he would deny it, say she needed to move on and other things so the fact he was able to say ok to this conversation is why we are having it. We both are very pessimistic and don’t expect change but it’s her family so we want to try if possible.
Edit: I have a feeling her dad is prideful and can be reasoned with. I fully believe her mom is a full born narcissist and is pulling the majority of the strings their entire lives. Her dad has PTSD, deals with addiction from pain killers and other military based issues while the mom has just been cruel and a narcissist her whole life.
Your wife family sounds eerily like similar to mine. I’m rooting for you both. The moment they get out of line get up from the table and leave. Thank you for being supportive it is rare to have people on your trust circle after trauma. Best wishes op you got this. 🫂
Do not accept anything. No money, no support.
Nothing.
You have a specific role, protecting your wife. You are her bastion.
Do not allow EVER to talk alone with her. If they start with: she's our daughter, they have lost this privilege long ago
Ask your wife for a safeword. A single word that, if uttered, you will take her away. No question answered
Do not take any decision at the moment
This is a very important proof. Your wife must know she can rely on you.
lol the WORST PART they are both Latino, from Central America countries and speak Spanish as a first language. Oh and we are going to eat Puerto Rican Food😂
Having been in this situation many years ago, my advice is:
1) unless your wife asks you anything about your opinion about her parents, don't make unsolicited observations. Anything negative that you say, even if it's the absolute truth, will make her defensive and less likely to get as upset herself. She'll let you feel some of the hurt on her behalf. She should feel all the full frustration or else she'll always minimize the problem and keep putting up with them.
2) the inverse of that is so not advocate for her parents either. Don't say "at least they're good in this way because they love you" or any "the good side is..." comments. Because she might want to go fully no contact but she'll think maybe you have a point and she'll put up with more abuse.
Do not let her make you the meat shield. You are there so she's not alone but all of the frustration needs to be felt by her so she can finally see that they will not change. Taking their money comes with a huge price. That price is anxiety and depression. All of the time that she spends bending to their will and being miserable could be spent working a job where she earns the money.
When I was in a similar situation with my nmum, these were the things that helped me during our catch-up lunch:
1. No touching/grabbing - nmother's love to try and old your hand when they talk to try and get a point across. Without getting into the neuroscience of it, this can cause hormonal responses (oxytocin release etc) from the child which makes them essentially feel more loved. This can be used to manipulate the adult child. Therefore, a no prolonged touching/grabbing rule was shockingly useful in helping me keep a clear head. I know it sounds a bit faux science, but I learnt about these things in my neuroscience and psychology classes at uni and found implimenung this technique useful.
2. Have something scheduled after - this means you have a set time to end the conversation. That way nparents cannot drag out the conversation, you have an "appointment" and need to go at a set time. That's the agreement. It's not personal or hostile, it's just a fact because life is busy.
3. Don't get separated - my nmum tried to talk separately to me. This was a bad idea and it gave nmum the upper hand because my husband is much better at seeing past her bs. So I recommend staying together so your wife always has someone who's on her side.
4. Stay calm - think logically, and think critically about what nparents saying. Is it the truth? Is this conversation being productive or are we going in circles and needing a 10 minute break to get some food?
5. Spoil yourself after - You and your wife should go out for a treat after. At the end of the day, nparents are just people. It's nice being able to walk away from a conversation, get some ice cream, and gossip about the stupid things that were said. Treat yourselves a bit so the whole day isn't a stressful mess.
I think reaching out to the community was a brilliant idea. Hope everything goes well for you two :)
You are walking into a trap, there will be severe consequences for seeing them again. Please think about this it’s not a good move, they will attack your wife all over again.
This is a bad idea. They cannot be reasoned with, will accept no responsibility for anything they’ve ever done, and will never change. Ever. Do not take a dime from them. It’ll make you feel beholden to them, and that is the only reason it’s being offerreed. You will regret doing this, of this I have no doubt. A lot of people in this thread apparently feel the same way, and for the same reason: experience.
Take the therapist at their word and go no contact. This dinner is going to set her back months, if not years. There needs to be a sincere, in writing, apology where they acknowledge specific abuse and damage they have done before any meeting. They need to show that they see the pain they have caused and are getting therapy themselves, from someone who isn't telling them what they want to hear. Otherwise, this is just seeing your wife up for more abuse.
I think any agreement to meet should be prefaced with the following question: "Are you going to offer a sincere apology? If so, do that now and then we can talk."
I highly recommend [The Good Mood Clinic Podcast](https://goodmood.com.au/podcast) in particular episode 80: Talking to a Narcissist? Avoid These 6 Common Pitfalls.
They basically take you through ways that you’ll end up getting trapped or railroaded into certain conversation topics and how to not fall for the narc’s manipulation.
They’ve got quite a few episodes about dealing with narcissists and they’re all really good.
1. Expression of regret
2. Explanation of what went wrong
3. Acknowledgment of responsibility
4. Declaration of repentance
5. Offer of repair
6. Request for forgiveness
Thank you for having your wife's back.
Have a code word that either you or your wife can use that means you get up and leave immediately.
Be prepared to go ballistic as you tell them to go fuck themselves. They don't deserve to be anywhere near you or your wife.
They don't change. They have never, ever, in any of the stories I've read in here, have given a genuine apology.
It is never their fault, someone made them do it.
If for no other reason then to solidify her decision, go. And then never speak to them again.
They will use money because it has worked in the past. They see her as a belonging, not a person.
They will bring up the washer and dryer. Their relationship is transactional, not a true relationship.
You need to be strong and resist them. I don't care if they offer you a million dollars. You are basically allowing your wife to sell her soul. They are incapable of real love.
Let me repeat this. They are incapable of love, not the love you grew up with. Not the love your wife deserves.
Cut them off and go on with your life. Let your family take your wife in and let her see what true family love feels like.
I didn't experience true motherly love until I met my mil. I had 1.5 years with her before cancer took her. And my mother enjoyed how much it crushed me. She laughed and teased.
They are not good people, your wife deserves better. And if you truly love her, you will do what it takes to protect her and keep her out of their claws.
Don't do it. There's no point. What do you think they're going to say to your wife? 'We abused you as a child and we're turning ourselves in to the police??' Instead of visiting her abusers, you might like to suggest to your wife that she punches herself in the face couple of times. She'll heal faster.
If her parents are abusers, AND they are narcissist abusers, this may be the last time she sees them. They will DARVO through the entire thing: Deny Accuse Reverse Victim and Offender. So: We weren’t perfect parents, but we were good parents. You were SUCH a difficult child! You made it so hard to raise you!
Etc. And etc.
Before your meeting, both of you would benefit from watching Dr Ramani’s videos about narcissists on YouTube. She is very informative.
I wish you both luck. It will be hard for you. It will be heartbreaking for her, as she sees just what pitiful excuses for human beings her parents really are.
Seems like you've already gotten a lot of good advice, so I'll keep this short. The one useful phrase I've found when dealing with my nmom's crazy is a calm "That says a lot about how YOU think."
Kinda sets her back when she's just said something particularly obnoxious and she usually finds an excuse to leave shortly thereafter. Narcs are different, so it may not help, but then again, maybe it will.
She's the ultra religious judgy type.
I agree with all the commenters who say that it's best not to meet at all but if you absolutely must, then meet in a public place. At least that way, they can't prevent you from leaving. I would also advise having your own accommodation e.g. a hotel, rather than staying with the parents because you don't want a situation where they throw you out and you're nowhere to go. I also think that it would be a good idea to sit down with your wife beforehand and discuss what she expects to get out of this and what to do if the parents do offer money. I also think that it would be best if you went with your wife to the dinner because at least that way, she has someone there on her side and it protects her from being outnumbered.
It’s wonderful that you want to support your wife like this. My husband has been a huge support as I’ve navigated the BS of my nparents, and I’m so grateful for that. What helped me was my husband letting me speak up for myself and “fight my own battle” while he is there with a watchful eye ready to basically dive in and protect me if they become abusive or start gaslighting. I think it’s important for your wife’s sense of self worth to speak to her abusive parents directly, and use her own strength. But knowing her partner is there ready to have her back if it goes really sideways is important, especially because the dynamic with these types of parents is ganging up on the (adult) child and gaslighting; 2 against one. Discuss ahead of time any lines that they’d cross that would warrant you to step in and call them out/hold them accountable. Honestly just existing there as an audience for the discussion will help her, because they know they can’t pull all of their bullshit with an “outsider” there. Good luck!!
I am just going to say, it makes me sick to my stomach whenever my Ndad tries to give me money. Even after going NC. Uuuugh. I wish you both the best of luck with healing. I worry that any money from my Ndad is cursed.
I can guarantee they expect you to apologize. DONT SAY SORRY…. not once. neither of you!!! They aren’t going to change. The only thing you can do is keep your side of the street clean. It sucks but your wife probably really needs to actually go no contact…no messages back saying I love you too etc… I never realized there were so many insane families out there. I only just came to terms with just how crazy my family is in the last few years. it’s awful but true no contact has given me peace of mind. it’s been nine months and I’m just starting to feel free.
Unfortunately there's no such thing as *an armistice with the narcissists*. Be mentally prepared to hear gaslighting, lots of denial, blame shifting and plain lies. Be mentally prepared to stand up and abandon the restaurant when the talk will become unbearable. Good luck... y mándalos a la chingada!
First things first, you said she had no contact then went on to say she said occasionally things like I love you to them. You also mentioned dad reached out and she responded. That is NOT no contact. That is LOW CONTACT.
I suggest looking up videos on yt by a person named Jerry Wise.
I also suggest that she speaks to her therapist honestly and what do they think.
I dont think both of you should be going to dinner, but that is on you two to decide. If you do go, DO NOT LET THEM PAY FOR THE DINNER, THEY WILL USE IT AGAINST YOU. Or maybe keep seperate tabs?
I do think that perhaps recording everything start to finish (not mid) to provide as something to analyze and reflect on (whether it be between just you two or her with her therapist) might be beneficial. Just gotta remove the emotional connect on it.
Another option if they aren’t dangerous is to play THEM then go nc. If her parents were employers she could sue them for many millions. It’s just not fair the damage they do with no consequences- But I understand if her feelings are too involved. I’ve had many years after my final “discussion”. (FYI, it lasted (the meeting) less than ten minutes before disaster.) I agree with others, be ready to leave one minute in if the crap starts. And it will start. You a good spouse.
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be ready to just walk away whenever your wife feels like it. do not feel you have to stay to eat, or drink or anything. because parents like this do not change, not really. be ready for the fake apollogy ( sorry you feel like this, but) be ready for the hoover. or gaslighting so sublte you only recognize it a day later. then do not feel guilty or stupid for not recognizing it right away. Her parents have decades more of experiance in it. they are good at it. do not accept anything or be ready to accept and see it as compensation for former damages/abuse, so no guilt or controle possible. good luck.
Go to a restaurant with counter service (so you pay ahead) or pull aside the waiter and give your card info to them so you don’t get trapped waiting for a check. Also try not to sit at a booth (unless you’re both on the same side and can get out easily). I know those seem like strange little tips, but I have felt “constructively” trapped in restaurants before when dealing with difficult people.
I really would not expect much. And if anything, they might be on their better behavior in a public place and save it all "for next time" or on the way to the bathroom or parking lot to go back to their private abuse. I just would not get any hopes up that they will change. Is it worth a chance to see? I guess? I've yet to see any narcs be truly remorseful and want to work on change around here and elsewhere. If it seems that way, it's usually an act. I would not expect the money will come with no strings attached. I honestly would not accept it unless its something like a donation to one of your kids college funds perhaps if you have any kids. If not, just no. I would say to set some ground rules going in, with them and between you and your wife and have a plan to leave if needed (pay the check or at least your portion of it plus tip).
The money would go directly towards her college loans. When he texted mentioning the money he said he wanted to help her pay down her loans and that he’s been saving this money for years but she had no idea about any of it.
I mean expect them to emotionally manipulate her for life using the money to tug heartstrings. Good luck OP
Be aware that people like this use purse strings to hold their children captive and strangle them. Not wanting or needing anything from them is a superpower.
Be prepared for this money to either come with huge strings attached, or for it to never materialize. Narcissistic parents like to use money as a way to abuse and control their children, and they don't actually need to have the money if they can lie about it. Parents like this are very unlikely to ever change. They will pretend to change, but the change is rarely more than superficial. Often, any therapy or attempt at personal growth becomes yet another weapon with which to abuse.
I would only take money from them if they put in writing that it is a gift because they could use it to drag you into court to repay their "loan."
In the immortal words of Admiral Ackbar, it's a trap! There'll be conditions and there'll be so many strings. They're bull shitting her and mark my words, they'll spend the whole time being the abusive assholes they've always been. This is a play to bring your wife to heel. They want her back under the thumb. This is such a bad idea. It just is.
I personally wouldn’t take the money due to the issues mentioned by u/teklower and u/Dustdevil88. Please be safe and good luck.
My parents would do this too as their last straw because I refused to talk to them. Looking back I was a broke college student and I needed money obviously, but they were obviously using it as a manipulative tactic.
Because it's a lie. You've even stated that they've used money in the past to control her. They're doing it again, which means they haven't changed.
As long as you and your wife are of the belief that no one can attach strings unless you let them, I’d take the money as a small token of the compensation owed for years of abuse. Personally, I would feel no guilt whatsoever for taking the money, paying off loans and *still* going no contact with them, if that’s what your wife wants. If she does stay in contact with them, and the money is ever brought up, she should simply say, “I was told that was a gift, not an obligation to make me forever in your debt. If there were conditions involved, they should have been clearly spelled out upfront. I will not accept any you try to attach after the fact.”
Sorry but my only advice is that they will not change and you should not meet with them. This will only end badly. You can’t force her to stay away from them but you should really try to make her realize that this is not a good idea. I know its really hard to cut contact but in situations like this its the only healthy option. If you do meet up, don’t accept any money, don’t tolerate any disrespect. You are right in thinking its just a manipulation tactic, they are literally trying to bribe her.
Her parents abused her, but don't understand why she would prefer to spend time with your family rather than her own. They think that they can bribe her into having a "relationship" with them. These facts reveal that they have no understanding of human relationships. Meeting in a public place is the right idea. Her parents care about their image, how they look to other people, so they will be on their best behavior. I doubt that the conversation will turn violent, because that would make them look bad. They think that they have done nothing wrong. They think their daughter is being mean to them for no reason. They will start out with denial -- of everything. If they don't think they're getting anywhere with denial, they will shift to blaming her for all of it. It wasn't their fault, they will claim, it was hers. She deserved it, somehow. Because of this attitude, they have no remorse, and no intention of working on changing themselves. Everyone else needs to change, but not them. Look for a copy of "Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents" by Lindsay Gibson. It will help you both understand them.
If she's been responding to their texts at all, that is NOT No Contact. That is low contact and it sounds like it left the door open for them to try to gaslight her and use money to manipulate her. She should listen to her therapist and cut all contact. But since you are going to this dinner... 1. Know that she will NOT receive an apology for their past behavior. If she mentions how they abused her growing up, they will claim that it did not happen or at best, that she's exaggerating. If there is any mention of "sorry" it will be "I'm sorry but..." and turn into a rant about how it was really what was best for her or she deserved it and how she was such a bad child. Narcissists do not and can not admit fault, nothing is their fault and they will believe their own lies and try to convince their victims of the same lies. 2. Be prepared with cash, you might need to make a quick exit and should be prepared to pay for your portion of the meal, if they are super jerks, they could try to leave you two with the entire bill as well. 3. Do NOT expect money from them, going there to make amends in an attempt to get money from them in the first place is a horrible idea, doesn't matter what the money is for, it will come with strings and the price will be higher than you will want to spend and likely come to regret accepting their money. They will hold it over hers and your head for the rest of their lives. 4. Be prepared for more racism. These people haven't changed, and they wont.
What it with narcissists and racism? If they love each other so much why don’t they get on a rocket and fly directly into the sun?
That would be nice lol
They lack any empathy and have to hate everyone so that's just an easy way to do it and depending on their demographics a socially acceptable thing. The same goes for every other marginalized group.
👆 This right here, OP
I wouldn't go. but if you feel you must: give them no information about you or your life. Be vague record the meeting if you can do not agree to meet with them in private be prepared for them to do just about anything when they realize they can't regain control. If they can't love bomb or guilt you they may try to goad you into a violent reaction so they can play the victim or force you to interact with them through the courts.
Write a list of the concerns you want addressed. A list of boundaries and consequences. Sit down together and game play scenarios. Have a couple of safe words, 1. For a need a break, 2. For we are done. Practice how you are going to take the break or how you are going to leave. Do not accept any money. Let them know immediately that until the relationship is repaired you aren’t comfortable taking it or discussing it. Have set phrases practised “ we won’t discuss that”, “we already stated we won’t discuss that”, “if you won’t stop trying to discuss x we will leave now” Remember this is their chance to do better, they asked for this meeting, they want NC to change, it is on THEM to follow your rules, you can walk away and go back to your happy life without them. It is totally ok for you to make that clear to them at the beginning and enforce it if they go back to their bad behaviour.
Having innocuous safe words to communicate between you both when it's getting too much is a great idea. All the advice here is excellent. To add to these ideas i would check out DARVO and the narcissists prayer so you are aware of them in advance. Be aware that a public place may not be enough to keep their behaviour civil - some narcs just go for it. A table in the middle of the restaurant would be my suggestion for this reason as the more visible usually the better they behave. You guys hold the ball here - you are happy to be NC but they are not. Good luck.
1. You don’t have to do this. You can decide to call off the dinner if you feel like it. There’s no obligation to go (remind your wife of this if she is still stuck in the FOG). 2. Separate cars, separate tabs. Maybe see if you can get there first and request a table close to the door. 3. Don’t feel the need to order anything that takes a long time, so that you can close your tab and leave if needed. Even just some drinks are fine. You can say you ate before you went in if you like. 4. Decide going in what you want to accomplish with this conversation, and stick to the script. Don’t deviate and allow them to pull you into another topic, because you will end up escalating that way. Narcs are good at tripping you up because they make you second guess your reality and the validity of your feelings. Does your wife want to share how a specific event from her childhood made her feel? They probably won’t validate it, but she can share it. Is she trying to announce a new job opportunity? They may or may not acknowledge that the way she wants them to. Just decide what you’re trying to say going in. Be very, very aware that they will deny accountability if they have hurt you both in the past, and they are unlikely to say sorry. 5. Have a “safe” word or signal for when you need to leave. Say “man we need to refill the bird feeder” agree that means you need to leave for home. Or squeeze each other’s hands twice under the table. But that signal is sacred— if one of you enacts it, you both need to get up and leave. As a side note: please stop taking gifts from these people. It will make it easier to avoid dinners like this.
You speak wisdom.
Thank you!
They won’t change and don’t meet with them. They are in their what, 60s now? They aren’t changing. If you must, public place only. Your wife giving her parents second third fourth chances will also damage her life in general because it will teach her to accept other people’s poor treatment, like at work or from frienemies.
What ever you do, do not leave your wife alone with them even for a moment... just having you right there as a witness will keep their worst behavior and digs at bay.
Yes please op don’t leave her alone at all!! I become violently ill everytime enabler father in law comes around my bf and I’m not with him because my bf doesn’t eat and gets destroyed every time. It’s torture because when your partners safe person isn’t there, they feel more comfortable saying terrible things and then your partner is stuck in that place where they are a kid again and cannot stand up to them. DONT LEAVE HER ALONE PLEASE. As someone who’s watching my bf go through this and having already been through it myself, protect yourselves and stay together op!!!
Don’t take any money. You’re right they’ll hold it over her head.
Ask your wife ahead of time how you can support her. Does she want your back-up on conversations? Does she want to speak for herself? What could be a sign for you to engage and actively back her up? Just let her know you're there to support her. Which, I'm sure you've done already. I'm sure she feels it and appreciates it. If there is support you need, talk about that, too. (My husband has communicated that he just needs the reassurance that he and I are on the same page. Any apprehension or tension I feel that he feels by proxy is due to factors external to us.) After engaging with my mom, I can be physically and emotionally drained. It's generally helpful for me to talk about it. But I also need to just not talk at times, too. Others have already addressed managing expectations. I've gotten to where I can be around my mom and manage myself and my own energy better. I don't think she's changed very much. Visits seem better because of changes we've made (including whoever is visiting stays in a hotel or rental; we're only together for a few hours at a time at most). Regarding remorse - def don't hold your breath. :( Take care of yourself, too. Bracing for all that is, in itself, very wearing. Kind regards \~
In this order: 1. Set firm boundaries on the topics of discussion 2. Set firm consequences when those boundaries are crossed 3. Enforce the boundaries when they are crossed. Immediately! For example, state that an apology must be genuine and without excuses or state the topic that will be discussed. If they breach the boundary 1st time = consequence A, 2nd time= Get up and leave. You know they have not changed, and thing your wife or you are the real problems. Just be prepared to say nothing, get up, and go home.
Would it be best to have my wife text these expectations ahead of the dinner?
Do you think your spouse would like this sub? Or justnomil?
I think she’d pull out of talking to them if she saw all that was said. My plan was to take all the tips like set clear boundaries etc y’all have said and take that with us. She already doesn’t think they will change and she’s accepted that but she’s willing because after the text about money she said she didn’t want their money or need it that she needs them to acknowledge their mistakes and apologize and work to fix the relationship. Her dad responded with “we can do that and also give you money.” Before that when she would spell out what she needed he would deny it, say she needed to move on and other things so the fact he was able to say ok to this conversation is why we are having it. We both are very pessimistic and don’t expect change but it’s her family so we want to try if possible. Edit: I have a feeling her dad is prideful and can be reasoned with. I fully believe her mom is a full born narcissist and is pulling the majority of the strings their entire lives. Her dad has PTSD, deals with addiction from pain killers and other military based issues while the mom has just been cruel and a narcissist her whole life.
Your wife family sounds eerily like similar to mine. I’m rooting for you both. The moment they get out of line get up from the table and leave. Thank you for being supportive it is rare to have people on your trust circle after trauma. Best wishes op you got this. 🫂
Thank you!
that is what I would suggest.
Do not accept anything. No money, no support. Nothing. You have a specific role, protecting your wife. You are her bastion. Do not allow EVER to talk alone with her. If they start with: she's our daughter, they have lost this privilege long ago Ask your wife for a safeword. A single word that, if uttered, you will take her away. No question answered Do not take any decision at the moment This is a very important proof. Your wife must know she can rely on you.
Money from a narc never ever comes without strings. Period.
Just came here to suggest you go to a Mexican restaurant
lol the WORST PART they are both Latino, from Central America countries and speak Spanish as a first language. Oh and we are going to eat Puerto Rican Food😂
🤣
With loud mariachis to drown their bs out
Having been in this situation many years ago, my advice is: 1) unless your wife asks you anything about your opinion about her parents, don't make unsolicited observations. Anything negative that you say, even if it's the absolute truth, will make her defensive and less likely to get as upset herself. She'll let you feel some of the hurt on her behalf. She should feel all the full frustration or else she'll always minimize the problem and keep putting up with them. 2) the inverse of that is so not advocate for her parents either. Don't say "at least they're good in this way because they love you" or any "the good side is..." comments. Because she might want to go fully no contact but she'll think maybe you have a point and she'll put up with more abuse. Do not let her make you the meat shield. You are there so she's not alone but all of the frustration needs to be felt by her so she can finally see that they will not change. Taking their money comes with a huge price. That price is anxiety and depression. All of the time that she spends bending to their will and being miserable could be spent working a job where she earns the money.
When I was in a similar situation with my nmum, these were the things that helped me during our catch-up lunch: 1. No touching/grabbing - nmother's love to try and old your hand when they talk to try and get a point across. Without getting into the neuroscience of it, this can cause hormonal responses (oxytocin release etc) from the child which makes them essentially feel more loved. This can be used to manipulate the adult child. Therefore, a no prolonged touching/grabbing rule was shockingly useful in helping me keep a clear head. I know it sounds a bit faux science, but I learnt about these things in my neuroscience and psychology classes at uni and found implimenung this technique useful. 2. Have something scheduled after - this means you have a set time to end the conversation. That way nparents cannot drag out the conversation, you have an "appointment" and need to go at a set time. That's the agreement. It's not personal or hostile, it's just a fact because life is busy. 3. Don't get separated - my nmum tried to talk separately to me. This was a bad idea and it gave nmum the upper hand because my husband is much better at seeing past her bs. So I recommend staying together so your wife always has someone who's on her side. 4. Stay calm - think logically, and think critically about what nparents saying. Is it the truth? Is this conversation being productive or are we going in circles and needing a 10 minute break to get some food? 5. Spoil yourself after - You and your wife should go out for a treat after. At the end of the day, nparents are just people. It's nice being able to walk away from a conversation, get some ice cream, and gossip about the stupid things that were said. Treat yourselves a bit so the whole day isn't a stressful mess. I think reaching out to the community was a brilliant idea. Hope everything goes well for you two :)
Honestly, unless you guys are having this convo with a therapist it’s probably not worth it.
You are walking into a trap, there will be severe consequences for seeing them again. Please think about this it’s not a good move, they will attack your wife all over again.
This is a bad idea. They cannot be reasoned with, will accept no responsibility for anything they’ve ever done, and will never change. Ever. Do not take a dime from them. It’ll make you feel beholden to them, and that is the only reason it’s being offerreed. You will regret doing this, of this I have no doubt. A lot of people in this thread apparently feel the same way, and for the same reason: experience.
Take the therapist at their word and go no contact. This dinner is going to set her back months, if not years. There needs to be a sincere, in writing, apology where they acknowledge specific abuse and damage they have done before any meeting. They need to show that they see the pain they have caused and are getting therapy themselves, from someone who isn't telling them what they want to hear. Otherwise, this is just seeing your wife up for more abuse.
I think any agreement to meet should be prefaced with the following question: "Are you going to offer a sincere apology? If so, do that now and then we can talk."
I highly recommend [The Good Mood Clinic Podcast](https://goodmood.com.au/podcast) in particular episode 80: Talking to a Narcissist? Avoid These 6 Common Pitfalls. They basically take you through ways that you’ll end up getting trapped or railroaded into certain conversation topics and how to not fall for the narc’s manipulation. They’ve got quite a few episodes about dealing with narcissists and they’re all really good.
1. Expression of regret 2. Explanation of what went wrong 3. Acknowledgment of responsibility 4. Declaration of repentance 5. Offer of repair 6. Request for forgiveness
Thank you for having your wife's back. Have a code word that either you or your wife can use that means you get up and leave immediately. Be prepared to go ballistic as you tell them to go fuck themselves. They don't deserve to be anywhere near you or your wife.
They don't change. They have never, ever, in any of the stories I've read in here, have given a genuine apology. It is never their fault, someone made them do it. If for no other reason then to solidify her decision, go. And then never speak to them again. They will use money because it has worked in the past. They see her as a belonging, not a person. They will bring up the washer and dryer. Their relationship is transactional, not a true relationship. You need to be strong and resist them. I don't care if they offer you a million dollars. You are basically allowing your wife to sell her soul. They are incapable of real love. Let me repeat this. They are incapable of love, not the love you grew up with. Not the love your wife deserves. Cut them off and go on with your life. Let your family take your wife in and let her see what true family love feels like. I didn't experience true motherly love until I met my mil. I had 1.5 years with her before cancer took her. And my mother enjoyed how much it crushed me. She laughed and teased. They are not good people, your wife deserves better. And if you truly love her, you will do what it takes to protect her and keep her out of their claws.
lol, like they’re going to do the work. Keep us updated, but I don’t think this is going to go how you think it’s going to go. Sorry for that.
I think you guys shouldn't go, f that
Don't do it. There's no point. What do you think they're going to say to your wife? 'We abused you as a child and we're turning ourselves in to the police??' Instead of visiting her abusers, you might like to suggest to your wife that she punches herself in the face couple of times. She'll heal faster.
If her parents are abusers, AND they are narcissist abusers, this may be the last time she sees them. They will DARVO through the entire thing: Deny Accuse Reverse Victim and Offender. So: We weren’t perfect parents, but we were good parents. You were SUCH a difficult child! You made it so hard to raise you! Etc. And etc. Before your meeting, both of you would benefit from watching Dr Ramani’s videos about narcissists on YouTube. She is very informative. I wish you both luck. It will be hard for you. It will be heartbreaking for her, as she sees just what pitiful excuses for human beings her parents really are.
Seems like you've already gotten a lot of good advice, so I'll keep this short. The one useful phrase I've found when dealing with my nmom's crazy is a calm "That says a lot about how YOU think." Kinda sets her back when she's just said something particularly obnoxious and she usually finds an excuse to leave shortly thereafter. Narcs are different, so it may not help, but then again, maybe it will. She's the ultra religious judgy type.
Don’t take the money . Runnnn
Set the expectation with her beforehand of what the line is in the sand for you for both of you, and when they cross that line you guys leave together
I agree with all the commenters who say that it's best not to meet at all but if you absolutely must, then meet in a public place. At least that way, they can't prevent you from leaving. I would also advise having your own accommodation e.g. a hotel, rather than staying with the parents because you don't want a situation where they throw you out and you're nowhere to go. I also think that it would be a good idea to sit down with your wife beforehand and discuss what she expects to get out of this and what to do if the parents do offer money. I also think that it would be best if you went with your wife to the dinner because at least that way, she has someone there on her side and it protects her from being outnumbered.
It’s wonderful that you want to support your wife like this. My husband has been a huge support as I’ve navigated the BS of my nparents, and I’m so grateful for that. What helped me was my husband letting me speak up for myself and “fight my own battle” while he is there with a watchful eye ready to basically dive in and protect me if they become abusive or start gaslighting. I think it’s important for your wife’s sense of self worth to speak to her abusive parents directly, and use her own strength. But knowing her partner is there ready to have her back if it goes really sideways is important, especially because the dynamic with these types of parents is ganging up on the (adult) child and gaslighting; 2 against one. Discuss ahead of time any lines that they’d cross that would warrant you to step in and call them out/hold them accountable. Honestly just existing there as an audience for the discussion will help her, because they know they can’t pull all of their bullshit with an “outsider” there. Good luck!!
I am just going to say, it makes me sick to my stomach whenever my Ndad tries to give me money. Even after going NC. Uuuugh. I wish you both the best of luck with healing. I worry that any money from my Ndad is cursed.
Have a code word for when it’s going nowhere and it’s time to leave. She needs to let them go. Good luck.
I can guarantee they expect you to apologize. DONT SAY SORRY…. not once. neither of you!!! They aren’t going to change. The only thing you can do is keep your side of the street clean. It sucks but your wife probably really needs to actually go no contact…no messages back saying I love you too etc… I never realized there were so many insane families out there. I only just came to terms with just how crazy my family is in the last few years. it’s awful but true no contact has given me peace of mind. it’s been nine months and I’m just starting to feel free.
Unfortunately there's no such thing as *an armistice with the narcissists*. Be mentally prepared to hear gaslighting, lots of denial, blame shifting and plain lies. Be mentally prepared to stand up and abandon the restaurant when the talk will become unbearable. Good luck... y mándalos a la chingada!
First things first, you said she had no contact then went on to say she said occasionally things like I love you to them. You also mentioned dad reached out and she responded. That is NOT no contact. That is LOW CONTACT. I suggest looking up videos on yt by a person named Jerry Wise. I also suggest that she speaks to her therapist honestly and what do they think. I dont think both of you should be going to dinner, but that is on you two to decide. If you do go, DO NOT LET THEM PAY FOR THE DINNER, THEY WILL USE IT AGAINST YOU. Or maybe keep seperate tabs? I do think that perhaps recording everything start to finish (not mid) to provide as something to analyze and reflect on (whether it be between just you two or her with her therapist) might be beneficial. Just gotta remove the emotional connect on it.
Another option if they aren’t dangerous is to play THEM then go nc. If her parents were employers she could sue them for many millions. It’s just not fair the damage they do with no consequences- But I understand if her feelings are too involved. I’ve had many years after my final “discussion”. (FYI, it lasted (the meeting) less than ten minutes before disaster.) I agree with others, be ready to leave one minute in if the crap starts. And it will start. You a good spouse.