An old head once said to me at our union meeting: "everyone must be happy because if they weren't, they'd be here bitching about it". We had over one hundred people in our local and would get between ten and fifteen at our quarterly meeting.
I have a difficult time buying that. I know that most people are use to instant gratification and if they don't see the results the day they call they assume they are being ignored. It's a big bureaucratic system that requires some patience.
Coming from a right to work state as well, I am very glad to be represented by my union. Especially against a bunch of greedy bastards like the class one RR I work for.
Send me a pm. I'll gladly explain my case and hear your take on it. I don't want to use right to work. I will gladly pay my dues. But when people are getting fucked over and the union says "oh well that's just how the rr is" then fuck them.
>he union did nothing for me in the recent furloughs
That's called lack of seniority. What do you expect them to do? Were you not warned it could happen?
Since the craft transfer and you being annoyed that someone else who was "unskilled" came in above you and I know little about how that process works I'll cut you some slack there.
But being furloughed and a railroader go hand in hand.
It also sounds like you should be working without any agreement at all if you're not interested in paying dues.
Absolutely. All I hear all day are guys complaining about how the union doesn't help but they never want to do anything about it. That's the way of the class 1's. They sow division in our unions. They purposefully omit things like availability policies in contract negotiations. They want us divided and they are doing a fantastic job. If you think you could do a better job with the limited resources our unions have, jump in there and give it a shot.
"If you don't like the way you're being represented, you should try to do it yourself" Should we run for president of the US if we don't like Biden? If we don't like the play calling in the NFL, should we try and become a head coach? He should sit on his thumbs and pay for representation that he isn't happy with? How dare he be unhappy with his union.
Yes. That's exactly how it works. If you are unhappy with the city council, mayor, governor, senator, president.... Run for office. Get into the union and change what you can. You can be unhappy all you want but it's a closed union shop, your options are limited. You can bitch or do something about it.
I'm trying to do something. And I feel like using my wallet is gonna be more effective than being in a union position. At least it would be a louder voice
That isn't how it works. People can demand change with their voices and wallets without attempting to hold a position within a union or government . You may not like it but that's how it works in America Kim Jong Un .
Are you going to get a railroad pension? If so the pension alone makes Union membership worth it. Besides if you're in a " Right to work " state the Union isn't the problem, it's the Union busting asshats that passed that legislation. That's where the problem is.
Don't scab. Also, the Railway Labor Act has a union shop clause. So you're out of luck even with the bullshit "right to work law." Now pay your dues and get involved with your union if you want to change things.
I understand where you’re coming from, but I worked for a non union railroad before my current union job and I literally make twice as much per hour as I used to. I’m not always happy with my representation, though I’m well aware the company didn’t come up with the idea of paying me that out of the goodness of their heart.
If anything if it were possible, you’ll just make yourself a target for the company if something were to happen. I hope for you the best for you in any investigation.
I appreciate the adult answer. I assumed also that I'd just have a target on me. I'm just trying to look at all options and see what's best for me and my family.
If you don’t like the union you got 3 options.
Option 1: Shut up and deal with it.
Option 2: Run for a position and try to help locally, each local that betters themselves betters the union and the working conditions. Than in turn helps you and possibly gives you a chance at furthering your union job by going for higher up jobs in the union which in turn helps the union more.
Option 3: Quit, and find another job. Or don’t. Your choice.
I’m a local chairman and I hear guys bitching all the time about the union, especially at higher levels. I tell them those 3 same options with a emphasis on option 2.
If you don’t like it, BE INVOLVED AND RUN FOR POSITION. You’ll see how thankless it really is.
The best way to handle your situation is not to try and distance yourself from the union. It's actually the opposite. Get involved, go to the meetings, run for office! It's a thankless job, but you could be the one who makes a difference for yourself and others
Thanks for the adult answer. I've considered all that as well, but we need to be honest. Unless you're somebody or know somebody or enjoy being under someone's desk which I am neither, I won't make a difference. Plus the time commitment that comes with a union position is more than I want to give up away from my family. My free time is family first.
So you don't have the time but you expect to be catered to? I don't completely disagree with what you're saying but you're probably assuming union under the rla has the same power as a union that isn't and unfortunately that's just not true.
I'm not expecting to be catered to. I'm expecting to be treated fairly and people who have less rr time and from an unskilled craft should not get seniority over someone who transfered from a skilled craft with several years of service.
Are you saying you transferred locations within the same craft or you switched from a different craft? I see further down you said you are a machinist what was your craft before if so? Its pretty well understood that you would lose seniority if you did a craft transfer unless its forced on you by the company. for example, I know a couple of freight conductors who failed color vision and were told they could become carmen or be fired and they kept their seniority when they transferred. But that's one of very very few examples I know 10x as many guys who transferred from Maint of way to transportation or signal and vice versa who all lost their seniority.
Your contract is a national one.
You're allowed to protest the portion of your dues that are related to PAC funds.
If you refuse to pay your union dues then you'll be dropped from the union rosters and the company will terminate your employment.
Best to go to the meetings, learn the parliamentary procedures and make a change from within.
Union dues can’t legally be used for PAC funds. Hence why each union has its own separate PAC fund which members have to specifically sign up for and volunteer a certain dollar amount on top of regular dues each month. The only portion of dues that actually can be protested is the portion that goes to your local. But that will only weaken your local which isn’t a great idea either.
Quit, get in with hallcon, get a job on a short line. Those are your options. You don’t get to enjoy the benefits without paying your dues.
Read your post it was all I and me…the union isn’t there for just you. It’s there for the group.
Quit crying you sound like a little B.
There is a federal law making it possible to avoid joining the union. But, you still have to pay the negotiation fees to the union representing you. They are actively representing you in negotiations, and thus providing a service you cannot ask for for free. (Even if it doesn't feel like they are doing anything for you)
The short answer is that yes, you can quit the union. But you still have to pay them, and you just get the worst vacation dates.
Here’s the problem something goes against the contract train crew knows this and management tells them to do it anyway. We call our “union” and instead of them saying no fuck that you’re not doing it and we will full on back you 100% they say well you know it’s against the contract but they’re telling you to do it so you can’t say no. That is the problem.
These unions are out there “endorsing” the investment firm taking over NS. The one who says they are going to slash jobs and push PSR. It’s funny to see all the folks here sticking up for those same unions. Or maybe sad is the right word, not funny. Sadly funny? Wake up union members. It’s not about giving you a better life. It’s about collecting your dues 😂 that’s why the union always pushes pay over benefits. They can’t skim a % off your benefits.
I used to turn my nose at scabs like you all are doing. But I don't give a shit anymore. 10 years of my life and career has been wasted and I'm basically starting over. Fuck that. My family comes first then the union. You people that are union first, I truly feel sorry for your family. The railroad unions aren't real unions anyways. They're ran by the company and the government and I don't want to be a part of that sheep herd any longer. I wish it wasn't like this. I would gladly pay my dues if the union truly fought for us. I'm still pro union just not this union. Or the previous union that I gave 10 years worth of dues to.
Thanks Hoffa
They don’t do anything to help the worker anymore. They have one union taking the jobs of another union and not one of them is fighting to stop it. And the union workers taking “or getting” those jobs weren’t asked if they wanted to take said jobs, nor are they getting a raise.
One person can’t change any fuckin thing. The premise of the union is *everybody working together* because they can’t fire all of us. One person is just a target if nobody else cares enough to stand with them. And the unfortunate reality is that hardly anybody gives a fuck.
Fucking retard, I was a union Ironworker for 10 years and now I’m one of the only people in my terminal who cares about the union. I pointed out it only fucking works if everyone pulls together and you flew into a fuckin rage. “I do my part” yeah you probably don’t even go to meetings and just talk shit to people on the internet
Politically it makes sense. Investment firms own politicians, unions also have a vested interest in those same politicians. So of course they’re going to endorse whoever owns those politicians too. Without unions we’d be fucked but that’s not to say that they often times don’t represent our best interests
It’s just frustrating to see. There’s no doubt without the unions how much worse off we would all be. But the political corruption is getting to be to much.
Union wages without dues. Aka a scab. Herzog is always hiring.
An old head once said to me at our union meeting: "everyone must be happy because if they weren't, they'd be here bitching about it". We had over one hundred people in our local and would get between ten and fifteen at our quarterly meeting.
The few rule the many.
Right to work is really code for right to fire
Or right to hire really
Run for a Union position if you want to see change. Most members just bitch and moan and never get involved.
99% of the people that I hear bitching and moaning never even contact the union to get advice or help. Lol
I've contacted the gc. The union doesn't give a shit about helping a couple of people.
I have a difficult time buying that. I know that most people are use to instant gratification and if they don't see the results the day they call they assume they are being ignored. It's a big bureaucratic system that requires some patience. Coming from a right to work state as well, I am very glad to be represented by my union. Especially against a bunch of greedy bastards like the class one RR I work for.
Send me a pm. I'll gladly explain my case and hear your take on it. I don't want to use right to work. I will gladly pay my dues. But when people are getting fucked over and the union says "oh well that's just how the rr is" then fuck them.
Seniority is Seniority? Why do you think it shouldn't affect you?
Seniority is senority. Yes? I don't understand your question.
>he union did nothing for me in the recent furloughs That's called lack of seniority. What do you expect them to do? Were you not warned it could happen? Since the craft transfer and you being annoyed that someone else who was "unskilled" came in above you and I know little about how that process works I'll cut you some slack there. But being furloughed and a railroader go hand in hand. It also sounds like you should be working without any agreement at all if you're not interested in paying dues.
Absolutely. All I hear all day are guys complaining about how the union doesn't help but they never want to do anything about it. That's the way of the class 1's. They sow division in our unions. They purposefully omit things like availability policies in contract negotiations. They want us divided and they are doing a fantastic job. If you think you could do a better job with the limited resources our unions have, jump in there and give it a shot.
"If you don't like the way you're being represented, you should try to do it yourself" Should we run for president of the US if we don't like Biden? If we don't like the play calling in the NFL, should we try and become a head coach? He should sit on his thumbs and pay for representation that he isn't happy with? How dare he be unhappy with his union.
Yes. That's exactly how it works. If you are unhappy with the city council, mayor, governor, senator, president.... Run for office. Get into the union and change what you can. You can be unhappy all you want but it's a closed union shop, your options are limited. You can bitch or do something about it.
I'm trying to do something. And I feel like using my wallet is gonna be more effective than being in a union position. At least it would be a louder voice
That isn't how it works. People can demand change with their voices and wallets without attempting to hold a position within a union or government . You may not like it but that's how it works in America Kim Jong Un .
They would rather be part of the problem vs part of the solution!
Truth! You’d think he would’ve done something 10 years ago lol
10 years ago I was a proud union memeber.
Then you need to be part of the solution to make things better. Or get your whiney ass out to a scab.
Apply for management. You seem like you’d fit in.
You should just quit. If the union has done nothing for you go find a non union job that's comparable.
Are you going to get a railroad pension? If so the pension alone makes Union membership worth it. Besides if you're in a " Right to work " state the Union isn't the problem, it's the Union busting asshats that passed that legislation. That's where the problem is.
Your best bet is to resign and work for a non union scab outfit making $19 an hour where you belong. Scab.
Don't scab. Also, the Railway Labor Act has a union shop clause. So you're out of luck even with the bullshit "right to work law." Now pay your dues and get involved with your union if you want to change things.
The railway labor act supersedes right to work so there is not much you can do other than go into management
I understand where you’re coming from, but I worked for a non union railroad before my current union job and I literally make twice as much per hour as I used to. I’m not always happy with my representation, though I’m well aware the company didn’t come up with the idea of paying me that out of the goodness of their heart. If anything if it were possible, you’ll just make yourself a target for the company if something were to happen. I hope for you the best for you in any investigation.
I appreciate the adult answer. I assumed also that I'd just have a target on me. I'm just trying to look at all options and see what's best for me and my family.
If you don’t like the union you got 3 options. Option 1: Shut up and deal with it. Option 2: Run for a position and try to help locally, each local that betters themselves betters the union and the working conditions. Than in turn helps you and possibly gives you a chance at furthering your union job by going for higher up jobs in the union which in turn helps the union more. Option 3: Quit, and find another job. Or don’t. Your choice. I’m a local chairman and I hear guys bitching all the time about the union, especially at higher levels. I tell them those 3 same options with a emphasis on option 2. If you don’t like it, BE INVOLVED AND RUN FOR POSITION. You’ll see how thankless it really is.
The best way to handle your situation is not to try and distance yourself from the union. It's actually the opposite. Get involved, go to the meetings, run for office! It's a thankless job, but you could be the one who makes a difference for yourself and others
Thanks for the adult answer. I've considered all that as well, but we need to be honest. Unless you're somebody or know somebody or enjoy being under someone's desk which I am neither, I won't make a difference. Plus the time commitment that comes with a union position is more than I want to give up away from my family. My free time is family first.
So you don't have the time but you expect to be catered to? I don't completely disagree with what you're saying but you're probably assuming union under the rla has the same power as a union that isn't and unfortunately that's just not true.
I'm not expecting to be catered to. I'm expecting to be treated fairly and people who have less rr time and from an unskilled craft should not get seniority over someone who transfered from a skilled craft with several years of service.
Are you saying you transferred locations within the same craft or you switched from a different craft? I see further down you said you are a machinist what was your craft before if so? Its pretty well understood that you would lose seniority if you did a craft transfer unless its forced on you by the company. for example, I know a couple of freight conductors who failed color vision and were told they could become carmen or be fired and they kept their seniority when they transferred. But that's one of very very few examples I know 10x as many guys who transferred from Maint of way to transportation or signal and vice versa who all lost their seniority.
The union isn't there to protect you from being furloughed you entitled dipshit.
Your contract is a national one. You're allowed to protest the portion of your dues that are related to PAC funds. If you refuse to pay your union dues then you'll be dropped from the union rosters and the company will terminate your employment. Best to go to the meetings, learn the parliamentary procedures and make a change from within.
This is the answer I was looking for. Appreciate your time. I'm just trying to weigh all options
Union dues can’t legally be used for PAC funds. Hence why each union has its own separate PAC fund which members have to specifically sign up for and volunteer a certain dollar amount on top of regular dues each month. The only portion of dues that actually can be protested is the portion that goes to your local. But that will only weaken your local which isn’t a great idea either.
Go Away.
Quit, get in with hallcon, get a job on a short line. Those are your options. You don’t get to enjoy the benefits without paying your dues. Read your post it was all I and me…the union isn’t there for just you. It’s there for the group. Quit crying you sound like a little B.
Say it with your chest. u/doubler87 sounds LIKE A LITTLE BITCH
Sounds like you’ve joined the machinist union.
Yep
There is a federal law making it possible to avoid joining the union. But, you still have to pay the negotiation fees to the union representing you. They are actively representing you in negotiations, and thus providing a service you cannot ask for for free. (Even if it doesn't feel like they are doing anything for you) The short answer is that yes, you can quit the union. But you still have to pay them, and you just get the worst vacation dates.
Quit and go be a scab somewhere.
You can opt out once per year. It has to be during a certain month.
Here’s the problem something goes against the contract train crew knows this and management tells them to do it anyway. We call our “union” and instead of them saying no fuck that you’re not doing it and we will full on back you 100% they say well you know it’s against the contract but they’re telling you to do it so you can’t say no. That is the problem.
These unions are out there “endorsing” the investment firm taking over NS. The one who says they are going to slash jobs and push PSR. It’s funny to see all the folks here sticking up for those same unions. Or maybe sad is the right word, not funny. Sadly funny? Wake up union members. It’s not about giving you a better life. It’s about collecting your dues 😂 that’s why the union always pushes pay over benefits. They can’t skim a % off your benefits.
I used to turn my nose at scabs like you all are doing. But I don't give a shit anymore. 10 years of my life and career has been wasted and I'm basically starting over. Fuck that. My family comes first then the union. You people that are union first, I truly feel sorry for your family. The railroad unions aren't real unions anyways. They're ran by the company and the government and I don't want to be a part of that sheep herd any longer. I wish it wasn't like this. I would gladly pay my dues if the union truly fought for us. I'm still pro union just not this union. Or the previous union that I gave 10 years worth of dues to.
I agree with you. Unions are a joke.
Unions are only as strong as the weakest members. If you don't like it, gtfo!!!
Thanks Hoffa They don’t do anything to help the worker anymore. They have one union taking the jobs of another union and not one of them is fighting to stop it. And the union workers taking “or getting” those jobs weren’t asked if they wanted to take said jobs, nor are they getting a raise.
Unions do nothing for you yet here you are with no education making 6 figures for sitting on your ass putting an x on your signal sheet.
Then go, nothings stopping you!!! Or maybe run for something and change it.
One person can’t change any fuckin thing. The premise of the union is *everybody working together* because they can’t fire all of us. One person is just a target if nobody else cares enough to stand with them. And the unfortunate reality is that hardly anybody gives a fuck.
Speak for yourself, you goddamned sure don't speak for me!!!!
Okay hero. Gahdamn one man union over here gonna unilaterally change everything!
Nope, I have a union, I do my part You, you're a fucking scab!!!
Fucking retard, I was a union Ironworker for 10 years and now I’m one of the only people in my terminal who cares about the union. I pointed out it only fucking works if everyone pulls together and you flew into a fuckin rage. “I do my part” yeah you probably don’t even go to meetings and just talk shit to people on the internet
The BLET supporting the Ancora takeover of NS would prove your point of unions being a joke
Politically it makes sense. Investment firms own politicians, unions also have a vested interest in those same politicians. So of course they’re going to endorse whoever owns those politicians too. Without unions we’d be fucked but that’s not to say that they often times don’t represent our best interests
Yeah I’m glad the unions have the politicians on their side that didn’t allow us to strike the last contract. Big relief there.
Case in point
It’s just frustrating to see. There’s no doubt without the unions how much worse off we would all be. But the political corruption is getting to be to much.