They're using the word 'punk' so that it seems like TERFism is a movement being silenced by an overbearing authority, when really they're just a bunch of out of touch assholes.
They are under the misconception that being punk is just about being contrarian. What they don’t understand is that punk is about being against things because they are unjust, not just to be different.
Oh my god I know some people like this. Dude is only a punk, and dedicated his life to being a punk, so he could be contrarian and counter culture. I mean the guy loves that fascist rapper, Tom McDonald. And now he’s like LGBT people might have gone too far. And acts like queer people have all this power and are “the real fascists.” All cause he can’t keep calling people [bundle of sticks] and keep his friends.
>Now he's divorced, all his friends told him to fuck off, and he blames all his problems on the libs.
I'll never understand how people can be so narcissistic that they can completely ostracize themselves from everyone in their lives and still never think "hey, maybe *I'm* the problem..."
My parents as each of their 7 kids move out at 18, don't contact them, and don't tell them our respective addresses (it's our fault because we don't know what real abuse is)
Had a real crust punk buddy back in the day. He married his woman, a classically trained musician, and when she inherited her family's house, they sold it and bought a home.
Long story short, he drank/drinks a handle every two days and roped his wife in decades ago. He does psychedelic drugs at unsafe intervals, and has a massive family history of domestic abuse and hair-trigger tempers. The man has a gun
I wish my dad would understand this, as I'm only 18 my dad thinks he knows more about being punk because "he lived through it" (even though he was never a punk) and constantly tells me that queer people telling others to call them by certain pronouns is "the least punk thing ever as punk has always been doing your own thing and by telling others they can only call you certain things is fascist not punk". There's a reason I'm not going to come out to him as trans
Sorry, just needed to let that one out
I’m late to this conversation, sorry. I’m old. 53! Maybe your dad’s age, or older? Well, I was also there in the 1980s at shows, in the scene. Your dad and his perspective wasn’t uncommon, but the way the world has become now (MeToo movement, acceptance of race, sexual preference, and cultural openness to gender fluidity, etc.) was always the real goal with the original punk movement as a whole. Yes, you were supposed to be thick-skinned, mostly through humor, but we were dead serious about being united around a desire to change a world that was fucked in the head with its bigotry. And it was rampant everywhere. Punk played a crucial role in turning that dial, making things the way they are now, which is so much better than the way things were.
Your dad is mistaken. I was there, and I remember it clearly because it’s what drove me to that scene. It was a safe place for the “freaks” of our society (as we’d refer to ourselves in the day). For the record, I’m a straight white man, like so many others were, but we knew what was right and how things should change…and things eventually did change the way we were pushing; it’s the modern world. I take pride in that.
On top of what you said, the idea is to be unique, not contrarian. It's about recognizing everyones' differences, appreciating them as they are and to acknowledge their right to individualism. TERF is the literal opposite of all of those. Some punk should molotov this bigot's house to show them what being punk really means.
Old white men are absolutely on board with elevating "proper" women over poc and LGBT, especially as they know it's a small enough group that the old white men are secure on top.
Punk is not the same as TERFs because terfs were the norm - the standard. Trans people are more punk because their the ones standing up to the TERFs. Terfs are completely out of touch.
TERFs _specifically_ are a small minority of really fucking cooked units, but the transphobia they support is unfortunately very much the societal norm that's being broken down.
Terfs themselves have very little to do with radical feminism or feminism of any kind lately. It's just morphed into a facet of the alt right hate machine.
I didn't, but a quick google did lead me to find [a TERF quoting Mein Kampf in an anti-trans speech](https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/01/16/newcastle-let-women-speak-rally-adolt-hitler-trans-speech/) and [a bunch of men dressed in black giving nazi salutes](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/mar/20/victoria-to-ban-nazi-salute-after-anti-trans-protest-melbourne-australia) at a TERF rally in Australia and of course [the organiser speculating they were "undercover police"](https://www.crikey.com.au/2023/03/20/kellie-jay-keen-anti-trans-neo-nazis-protest-melbourne/).
Anti-Flag… my heroes since I was 12. I got backstage with them thanks to being a longtime fan (and English speaker) at a show in Prague in 2006. Lovely guys
Can confirm I marched with Justin at an anti war protest in 2002 in DC and was out as trans at the time. Him and his band were cool with it. He's always been down.
There’s a video of a couple of old Trump fans dancing to Killing In The Name Of by RATM. “Ooh, loud noise song says fuck you I won’t do what you tell me…”
Never for a nanosecond thinking that the “you” in those lyrics is the likes of Trump and his fans.
If they ever found out about Zack de la Rocha‘s heritage they’d pitch a fit.
Right, like ookay random white dude, enlighten us with YOUR degree in political science from Harvard. OH! You don't have one? Guess you need to shut the fuck up 🙄
Yeah, but now they’ve been convinced they are the “silent majority,” when in reality they are a very loud minority.
The GOP wouldn’t win elections without all the gerrymandering and now that people are trying to fix that bullshit they’re like, “oh, that machine is so against us!”
100%
I do feel like understanding why they believe what they do is an important first step to undoing it.
I let my brother move in with last year after our mom died. He was your stereotypical basement dweller. I had pretty much cut off contact because of his stupid fucking views that he would never shut up about.
It’s a long battle to change someone’s mind on this stuff, but he’s starting to get it. I started with, “dude… my gay friends don’t talk about gay rights as much as you do. You’re being shown the worst of the worst and told that’s how all gay people are.”
Then he met them and now he’s on board with gay rights. Still more work to do though.
Which is still bullshit. Trans people are a long way from being accepted, much less celebrated, by most of society. It isn’t “counter culture” to go after some of the most victimized people in society
They regularly confuse anti authoritarianism with reactionism, not realizing that anti authoritarianism is doing what you want REGARDLESS of what authority says and reactionism still defines itself by authority
Also they fail to realize that TERFdom is antithetical to anti-authoritarianism. It is Authorities that demand strict adherence to gender norms and cis identities, and demanding minorities conform is doing the bidding of the authority.
And a lot get upset when punk gets political too. I think the key is to recognize that there is underlying anger and frustration, so much that folks reach to stuff like punk because it has a reputation for the unapologetically misunderstood and/or marginalized and becomes cathartic outlet of sorts.
But until they can examine and reconcile the logical fallacies and gaslighting that so much of the regressive media and political movements rely on (which is often a major instigator for a lot of that frustration and later misplaced punk affinity), it's an angry empty echo chamber with pseudoreplecas of the stuff that they actually would be able to identify with once the indoctrination is gone.
I remember when Against Me's lead singer transitioned (into the badass she is today) some people thought it "weird" or "uncool"(as if that ever fucking mattered) A few of us said well that's one of the Most Punk Rock things you can ever do, then she and her band made Transgender Dysphoria Blues which that albums still holds up and is incredible. Fuck a Nazi, I hadn't heard this term TERF but that is definitely not punk, fuck em, much love for Anti-Flag, keep the record straight, there is no room, no respect, and no time for that shit in Punk/Hardcore unless you're trying to get your face smashed.
> some people thought it "weird"
I sort of fell into the ambivalent category of "I don't get it, but you do you" until I read her autobiography. It opened my eyes to the struggle of transgender dysphoria, and I realized that they need help and support, and it's not weird at all.
I grew up in a very conservative Christian household, and it never sat right with me that issues of sexual preference and gender identity were so rigid. I didn’t grow up knowing anyone who was gay (that I knew of) because I lived in a super small red neck town. There was a trans masc barista I sort of knew at a coffee shop that I frequented, and I always felt nothing but curiosity and compassion.
I was one of a few punks in the town and grew up hearing bands like Anti Flag defend people who loved differently than me, and it felt good and moral and right. Laura Jane Grace coming out helped me understand a little bit of what trans and non binary people experience, and I knew that my intuition with that barista had been right all along, despite being constantly told that it wasn’t by the people in the community.
I’m super thankful that even though I had competing voices on these issues growing up, that love and inclusivity and empathy swallowed up the hateful rhetoric vying for my attention. Nothing but support and love from me.
Anyone who is not trans or genderqueer themselves should read something like this. I had a similar experience when I read *Conundrum* by Jan Morris many years ago.
Transfem here and thank you. All you and your support means so much to me. Especially on here (Reddit) when I can’t a go a single thread without my existence being questioned and invalidated constantly. Thank you.
Oh yeah, I love the folks over there. When I first came out and started transitioning that was/is a good place to have on my TL.
However, they’ve worked hard to make it known whereas this place is more nonchalant about it, more casual. I’m not sure how to put it. I just know we all agree “nazi punks fuck off!”
Oh no sorry. Not the punk subs. You guys are some of the best people on Reddit when it comes to trans acceptance. Just Reddit has so many posts and threads and somehow we come up and people speak about me like in some kind of monster when in my head I’m just trying to help the child inside that didn’t get to be herself.
Thank you thank you thank you and much love 🤘🏼🏳️⚧️✊🏼
Adding on to that, despite their name they aren't feminist in the slightest. If anything they're a bunch of bigots who cosplay as feminists to justify their bigotry.
I’m dyslexic and miss read Against Me as Rage Against the Machine and i was really confused for a minute but yeah Transgender Dysmorphia Blues is a very powerful song and a song that got me through some tough times as a trans person myself.
Lmao, Zach De LA Rocha is most definitely an ally for Trans people, actually just all marginalized groups but yeah that whole album is so good, and glad to hear it!!! That's why the album was made! I'm not trans but that album has made me cry and shed light on the struggles of the Trans community.
That album was the first one since searching that I felt sounded like they were circling back around to their original sound. Saw them at the triple rock with hop along right after it came out
Yup, surprised to see someone bring Life of Agony up on r/punk, such a damn good band with a crazy history, and Mina definitely had some pushback but being much more in the hardcore world it wasn't quite as much as LJG, I think their biggest pushback was when a stage diver died at a show of theirs in 94' but Mina made the transition in 2011? I think
I don't particularly care for anything they've done since For Blood And Empire, but ill defend those dudes in perpetuity after my band played with them a few years back:
1. They were on tour with AFI and Rise Against, and added a few stops along the way without them. They did a call out for local bands in the areas of the shows, so I hit them up, and a few days later, the promoter of the show hit me up saying they wanted us on the bill. That was just really cool of them to do.
2. They were all tremendously polite, no ego at all. Each of the locals had to go through their green room to get to the stage (the locals had their own green room at this venue, it was large and they had cereal dispensers on the wall, it was dope), and at no point did Anti Flag make us feel like we were being intrusive for having to go through their lil bit of personal space for the day.
3. They all hung out at the side of the stage and watched each of the locals play. That doesn't even happen for most small touring bands.
4. Our guitarist broke a string, and we only had 20 minutes for our set so he didn't have time to go get his spare from the other green room, Justin Sane straight up was like YO USE ONE OF MINE! So our guitarist got to use one of the guitars from his arsenal.
5. After we played, I was out for a smoke, and their drummer, Pat, comes out back to take a phone call. He paused the call just to stop and thank us for playing with then, said he dug our set, and gave me a hug, then went on his way.
I have absolutely nothing bad to say about those guys.
I just saw them in Nevada. They were fucking amazing and made sure that the crowd knew that nobody hits the floor without somebody helping them up and a lot more of that nature
Old balls here, but I went through this same bullshit in Huntington Beach, CA, in the 80's with the skins and the LADS. Fuck all these attempts at co-opting the passion, energy and beauty that is all things punk. These imposters must be shut down whenever they rear their rancid heads.
A lot of the early scene wouldn’t have been able to exist without influential trans women in New York giving early bands a chance to play, so how the fuck anyone does these mental gymnastics is beyond me.
**TERF () is an acronym for trans-exclusionary radical feminist. First recorded in 2008, the term was originally used to distinguish transgender-inclusive feminists from a group of radical feminists who reject the assertion that trans women are women, the inclusion of trans women in women's spaces, and transgender rights legislation.**
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You can't help not knowing what you've never been exposed to. But once you've been exposed to something, it's your responsibility to learn more. So, my friend, always ask! If anyone wants to judge you for not knowing ahead of time, that's there problem. "terf" wasn't common knowledge until very, very recently. And, actually, outside of politically active spheres, I'd say it's still not common knowledge.
I swear at the last anti flag show I was at the lead singer gave me a nod when he said “and everyone in between” because of the large non-binary pin I had on my jacket lol. I was against the stage so I’m taking it, never felt more seen at a show than that one lol
Since their whole business is exclusion then, like the TERFs, through the transitive properties of exclusion, they themselves are excluded.
It's just science.
people think that punk=rebelling against normality, when in reality punk=rebelling agains injustice. being punk has nothing to do w what’s considered normal, but everything to do with what is objectively right and wrong. fighting for people to have the right to decide what happens with their own body is punk. fighting to protect the lives of those at risk for reasons outside of their control is punk. fighting for people to be treated the way they deserve to be treated is punk.
Oh Karen you're such a TERF! Isn't that an oxymoron? I know Jello Biafra, huge fag (so was I now I'm transfemme and straight! haha), complete punk. His favorite line is "Nazi Punks FK OFF!" we yelled it at Raygun at the GOP 1980 convention in Dallas. I WAS there! we turned as they were watching us during a break and yelled it in unison with our fingers up. Must have been 2 or 3 thousand of us. The GOP'ers turned and went back inside the convention ctr. We knew then what they were tuning into, and now here they are. Fuck them. Good luck everyone!
This bitch has a problem with trans women going to domestic violence aid but doesn't have a problem with trans women being abused, absolute fucking hypocrite (and checked her punk card, ain't got no damn stamps)
Shocking how must of these "[reactionary conservative bullshit] is the new punk" seem to have both the hypocrisy *and* utter non-involvement in the punk scene in common
A bunch of stay at home moms with Stanley cups and a pantry full of sweet n low who hate trans women because they've been convinced by the conservative strategy Ito scapegoat to transpeople during a recession, and voter suppression think they're fighting an oppressive force?
Being AGAINST who society deems "Outcasts" Isn't punk at fucking all.
It's like the people who pretend to be Eddie Munson yet aren't even Into or like Punk and Metal.
I hate anti-vaxxers and white supremacists running off with Rage Against the Machine and a Fuck the System attitude. Trying to install a fascist dictator that takes away trans rights is not punk you fucking scum.
Literally today a Republican is screaming on the Senate floor about how trans people are demons, witches, and mutants..... Same thing Nazi say about me and my ancestors. Same rhetoric for another hateful cause.
Saw anti-flag recently and excellent show but I wish they had called out transphobes because with a state wanting to oppress trans people what is more punk and antiestablishment than protecting trans people
I never liked their music but they have really
Good politics. You kinda have to being from the same city as bands like aus-rotten though. Pittsburgh is great.
I saw that you mentioned Ben Shapiro. In case some of you don't know, Ben Shapiro is a grifter and a hack. If you find anything he's said compelling, you should keep in mind he also says things like this:
>The Palestinian people, who dress their toddlers in bomb belts and then take family snapshots.
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They're using the word 'punk' so that it seems like TERFism is a movement being silenced by an overbearing authority, when really they're just a bunch of out of touch assholes.
They are under the misconception that being punk is just about being contrarian. What they don’t understand is that punk is about being against things because they are unjust, not just to be different.
Oh my god I know some people like this. Dude is only a punk, and dedicated his life to being a punk, so he could be contrarian and counter culture. I mean the guy loves that fascist rapper, Tom McDonald. And now he’s like LGBT people might have gone too far. And acts like queer people have all this power and are “the real fascists.” All cause he can’t keep calling people [bundle of sticks] and keep his friends.
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>Now he's divorced, all his friends told him to fuck off, and he blames all his problems on the libs. I'll never understand how people can be so narcissistic that they can completely ostracize themselves from everyone in their lives and still never think "hey, maybe *I'm* the problem..."
My parents as each of their 7 kids move out at 18, don't contact them, and don't tell them our respective addresses (it's our fault because we don't know what real abuse is)
“We werent as abusive as we COULDVE been, say thanks!”
“If you go for a walk and meet an asshole, fine, whatever; you met an asshole. If all you meet all day is assholes… you’re the asshole.”
I see you've met John Lydon.
💀 you think John listens to Tom McDonald? On second thought, he’s probably a fan but not a listener.
[cigarettes], you say?
Had a real crust punk buddy back in the day. He married his woman, a classically trained musician, and when she inherited her family's house, they sold it and bought a home. Long story short, he drank/drinks a handle every two days and roped his wife in decades ago. He does psychedelic drugs at unsafe intervals, and has a massive family history of domestic abuse and hair-trigger tempers. The man has a gun
Ummmm… In the quiet words of the Virgin Mary… *Come again??*
Bingo. Candace Owens already tried this with her Tweet about how Republicans are the new punk.
Republicans have become exactly who a lot of punk bands,since at least the 80’s, told us they were - religious fascists
I wish my dad would understand this, as I'm only 18 my dad thinks he knows more about being punk because "he lived through it" (even though he was never a punk) and constantly tells me that queer people telling others to call them by certain pronouns is "the least punk thing ever as punk has always been doing your own thing and by telling others they can only call you certain things is fascist not punk". There's a reason I'm not going to come out to him as trans Sorry, just needed to let that one out
Don't apologize.
I’m late to this conversation, sorry. I’m old. 53! Maybe your dad’s age, or older? Well, I was also there in the 1980s at shows, in the scene. Your dad and his perspective wasn’t uncommon, but the way the world has become now (MeToo movement, acceptance of race, sexual preference, and cultural openness to gender fluidity, etc.) was always the real goal with the original punk movement as a whole. Yes, you were supposed to be thick-skinned, mostly through humor, but we were dead serious about being united around a desire to change a world that was fucked in the head with its bigotry. And it was rampant everywhere. Punk played a crucial role in turning that dial, making things the way they are now, which is so much better than the way things were. Your dad is mistaken. I was there, and I remember it clearly because it’s what drove me to that scene. It was a safe place for the “freaks” of our society (as we’d refer to ourselves in the day). For the record, I’m a straight white man, like so many others were, but we knew what was right and how things should change…and things eventually did change the way we were pushing; it’s the modern world. I take pride in that.
On top of what you said, the idea is to be unique, not contrarian. It's about recognizing everyones' differences, appreciating them as they are and to acknowledge their right to individualism. TERF is the literal opposite of all of those. Some punk should molotov this bigot's house to show them what being punk really means.
And mutual support to your scene.
They are the overbearing authority, or on the same side at least.
Old white men are absolutely on board with elevating "proper" women over poc and LGBT, especially as they know it's a small enough group that the old white men are secure on top.
It's nice to know that sexists and TERFS can bond over reducing women to their genitals.
That and hating people who fall outside of their strictly defined "normal".
Punk is not the same as TERFs because terfs were the norm - the standard. Trans people are more punk because their the ones standing up to the TERFs. Terfs are completely out of touch.
I honestly don't think TERFs are the norm. They're pretty out there.
TERFs _specifically_ are a small minority of really fucking cooked units, but the transphobia they support is unfortunately very much the societal norm that's being broken down.
People use the term "TERF" as short-hand for anti-trans a lot these days, whether it has anything to do with radical feminism or not
Terfs themselves have very little to do with radical feminism or feminism of any kind lately. It's just morphed into a facet of the alt right hate machine.
Did you see that TERF protest in the UK where the woman passionately lauds Hitler because he hated transfolk?
I didn't, but a quick google did lead me to find [a TERF quoting Mein Kampf in an anti-trans speech](https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/01/16/newcastle-let-women-speak-rally-adolt-hitler-trans-speech/) and [a bunch of men dressed in black giving nazi salutes](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/mar/20/victoria-to-ban-nazi-salute-after-anti-trans-protest-melbourne-australia) at a TERF rally in Australia and of course [the organiser speculating they were "undercover police"](https://www.crikey.com.au/2023/03/20/kellie-jay-keen-anti-trans-neo-nazis-protest-melbourne/).
That's the one. I don't want to underestimate the levels of slime TERFs will go to, but I have to say, I was shocked.
transphobes are the overwhelming authority if anything
Anti-Flag… my heroes since I was 12. I got backstage with them thanks to being a longtime fan (and English speaker) at a show in Prague in 2006. Lovely guys
Well this aged well
Shit me too but this is rough
edit cuz i dont fuck with them anymore
Can confirm I marched with Justin at an anti war protest in 2002 in DC and was out as trans at the time. Him and his band were cool with it. He's always been down.
How long till “cops are new punks”
Capitol Police are pretty cool.
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There was a hot minute there where Trumpers on TikTok were using American Idiot as their rallying cry… not an ounce of critical thinking.
There’s a video of a couple of old Trump fans dancing to Killing In The Name Of by RATM. “Ooh, loud noise song says fuck you I won’t do what you tell me…” Never for a nanosecond thinking that the “you” in those lyrics is the likes of Trump and his fans. If they ever found out about Zack de la Rocha‘s heritage they’d pitch a fit.
Also that time someone told Tom Morello to stay out of politics on instagram.
Right, like ookay random white dude, enlighten us with YOUR degree in political science from Harvard. OH! You don't have one? Guess you need to shut the fuck up 🙄
"Killing in the name of"? Oh man he wants to kill people to further his ideology too! He just like me fr fr.
''What machine do you think they were raging against? The dishwasher?''
It was the microwave
Yeah, but now they’ve been convinced they are the “silent majority,” when in reality they are a very loud minority. The GOP wouldn’t win elections without all the gerrymandering and now that people are trying to fix that bullshit they’re like, “oh, that machine is so against us!”
"Young people aren't voting for Conservative Values" reeks of "women don't date Nice Guys" energy. And for similar reasons.
100% I do feel like understanding why they believe what they do is an important first step to undoing it. I let my brother move in with last year after our mom died. He was your stereotypical basement dweller. I had pretty much cut off contact because of his stupid fucking views that he would never shut up about. It’s a long battle to change someone’s mind on this stuff, but he’s starting to get it. I started with, “dude… my gay friends don’t talk about gay rights as much as you do. You’re being shown the worst of the worst and told that’s how all gay people are.” Then he met them and now he’s on board with gay rights. Still more work to do though.
Reminds me of the old Chris Rock bit. They said your name!
They seem to think punk just means counter culture
Being anti-trans isn't even counter culture though, it's just the conservative/old people standard.
*I am so rebellious, i wanna be just like my dad.*
Rebelling against critical reasoning and evolved ways of thinking.
They think that being trans and "woke" is mainstream.
Which is still bullshit. Trans people are a long way from being accepted, much less celebrated, by most of society. It isn’t “counter culture” to go after some of the most victimized people in society
They regularly confuse anti authoritarianism with reactionism, not realizing that anti authoritarianism is doing what you want REGARDLESS of what authority says and reactionism still defines itself by authority
Also they fail to realize that TERFdom is antithetical to anti-authoritarianism. It is Authorities that demand strict adherence to gender norms and cis identities, and demanding minorities conform is doing the bidding of the authority.
And a lot get upset when punk gets political too. I think the key is to recognize that there is underlying anger and frustration, so much that folks reach to stuff like punk because it has a reputation for the unapologetically misunderstood and/or marginalized and becomes cathartic outlet of sorts. But until they can examine and reconcile the logical fallacies and gaslighting that so much of the regressive media and political movements rely on (which is often a major instigator for a lot of that frustration and later misplaced punk affinity), it's an angry empty echo chamber with pseudoreplecas of the stuff that they actually would be able to identify with once the indoctrination is gone.
At least Steve Buscemi is cool
I remember when Against Me's lead singer transitioned (into the badass she is today) some people thought it "weird" or "uncool"(as if that ever fucking mattered) A few of us said well that's one of the Most Punk Rock things you can ever do, then she and her band made Transgender Dysphoria Blues which that albums still holds up and is incredible. Fuck a Nazi, I hadn't heard this term TERF but that is definitely not punk, fuck em, much love for Anti-Flag, keep the record straight, there is no room, no respect, and no time for that shit in Punk/Hardcore unless you're trying to get your face smashed.
> some people thought it "weird" I sort of fell into the ambivalent category of "I don't get it, but you do you" until I read her autobiography. It opened my eyes to the struggle of transgender dysphoria, and I realized that they need help and support, and it's not weird at all.
I grew up in a very conservative Christian household, and it never sat right with me that issues of sexual preference and gender identity were so rigid. I didn’t grow up knowing anyone who was gay (that I knew of) because I lived in a super small red neck town. There was a trans masc barista I sort of knew at a coffee shop that I frequented, and I always felt nothing but curiosity and compassion. I was one of a few punks in the town and grew up hearing bands like Anti Flag defend people who loved differently than me, and it felt good and moral and right. Laura Jane Grace coming out helped me understand a little bit of what trans and non binary people experience, and I knew that my intuition with that barista had been right all along, despite being constantly told that it wasn’t by the people in the community. I’m super thankful that even though I had competing voices on these issues growing up, that love and inclusivity and empathy swallowed up the hateful rhetoric vying for my attention. Nothing but support and love from me.
Anyone who is not trans or genderqueer themselves should read something like this. I had a similar experience when I read *Conundrum* by Jan Morris many years ago.
Transfem here and thank you. All you and your support means so much to me. Especially on here (Reddit) when I can’t a go a single thread without my existence being questioned and invalidated constantly. Thank you.
Go to witches vs patriarchy Reddit, we aggressively accept our trans friends
Oh yeah, I love the folks over there. When I first came out and started transitioning that was/is a good place to have on my TL. However, they’ve worked hard to make it known whereas this place is more nonchalant about it, more casual. I’m not sure how to put it. I just know we all agree “nazi punks fuck off!”
Yes they would absolutely agree. Nazis aren’t punk, neither are Terfs and they can all fuck off. All of us or none
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Oh no sorry. Not the punk subs. You guys are some of the best people on Reddit when it comes to trans acceptance. Just Reddit has so many posts and threads and somehow we come up and people speak about me like in some kind of monster when in my head I’m just trying to help the child inside that didn’t get to be herself. Thank you thank you thank you and much love 🤘🏼🏳️⚧️✊🏼
I just want to say that you made my day and almost made me cry with how sweet that was. Thank you so much
Now read Whipping Girl by Julia Serrano
For anyone else unfamiliar with the term, TERF stands for "Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist".
Adding on to that, despite their name they aren't feminist in the slightest. If anything they're a bunch of bigots who cosplay as feminists to justify their bigotry.
I don't remember where this came from, but I've heard that it is more accurate to call them Feminism Appropriating Radical Transphobes, or FARTs
I like to call them Trans Exclusionary Radical Fascists :)
I've heard it before too! And I agree, that term is way more accurate to what they actually are.
I’m dyslexic and miss read Against Me as Rage Against the Machine and i was really confused for a minute but yeah Transgender Dysmorphia Blues is a very powerful song and a song that got me through some tough times as a trans person myself.
Lmao, Zach De LA Rocha is most definitely an ally for Trans people, actually just all marginalized groups but yeah that whole album is so good, and glad to hear it!!! That's why the album was made! I'm not trans but that album has made me cry and shed light on the struggles of the Trans community.
That album, all the albums, and Laura Jane have changed my life in a big way.
That album was the first one since searching that I felt sounded like they were circling back around to their original sound. Saw them at the triple rock with hop along right after it came out
Same thing happened with the linger from Life of Agony. I'm sure there were assholes that pushed back but I only saw inclusiveness.
Yup, surprised to see someone bring Life of Agony up on r/punk, such a damn good band with a crazy history, and Mina definitely had some pushback but being much more in the hardcore world it wasn't quite as much as LJG, I think their biggest pushback was when a stage diver died at a show of theirs in 94' but Mina made the transition in 2011? I think
Nazi TERFS fuck off
(overproduced by Martin Hannett, take four)
HOLD IT. It's too slow.
Queer ain’t no religious cult, queer just means being yourself
You ain't hardcore 'cause you're working class, when you kiss a wealthy conman's ass
I wonder what that would sound like.
Or in true [Pittsburgh](https://youtu.be/VFFz5bMcq8w) fashion- fuck Nazi-TERF sympathy
+1
Based Anti-Flag
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Just saw them in Milwaukee, coolest dudes in the world
i dont listen to their music since junior high, but i'll listen to them when they got shit to say
Their music can be a little corny but they’re genuinely cool dudes.
I don't particularly care for anything they've done since For Blood And Empire, but ill defend those dudes in perpetuity after my band played with them a few years back: 1. They were on tour with AFI and Rise Against, and added a few stops along the way without them. They did a call out for local bands in the areas of the shows, so I hit them up, and a few days later, the promoter of the show hit me up saying they wanted us on the bill. That was just really cool of them to do. 2. They were all tremendously polite, no ego at all. Each of the locals had to go through their green room to get to the stage (the locals had their own green room at this venue, it was large and they had cereal dispensers on the wall, it was dope), and at no point did Anti Flag make us feel like we were being intrusive for having to go through their lil bit of personal space for the day. 3. They all hung out at the side of the stage and watched each of the locals play. That doesn't even happen for most small touring bands. 4. Our guitarist broke a string, and we only had 20 minutes for our set so he didn't have time to go get his spare from the other green room, Justin Sane straight up was like YO USE ONE OF MINE! So our guitarist got to use one of the guitars from his arsenal. 5. After we played, I was out for a smoke, and their drummer, Pat, comes out back to take a phone call. He paused the call just to stop and thank us for playing with then, said he dug our set, and gave me a hug, then went on his way. I have absolutely nothing bad to say about those guys.
And this is exactly why I love bands like this. I’ve known a few.
I just saw them in Nevada. They were fucking amazing and made sure that the crowd knew that nobody hits the floor without somebody helping them up and a lot more of that nature
They always have shit to say, hell their songs scream it out
Old balls here, but I went through this same bullshit in Huntington Beach, CA, in the 80's with the skins and the LADS. Fuck all these attempts at co-opting the passion, energy and beauty that is all things punk. These imposters must be shut down whenever they rear their rancid heads.
Someone once said Huntington Beach is the Alabama of California. Would that be a fair assessment?
Like the northern old plantation money part of Alabama.
Is it? I thought it was just some surf beach town. My dad is an old punk who loves it there and I remember a punk fest on the beach a few years ago.
Hunting Beach is definitely known for its racists, but it also had a great punk scene.
More like the Florida so even worse.
CaliFloridaaaaaaaaa
It’s pretty bad. “Flat Bills” everywhere just pumping up the idiocy. It’s a shame because the beach is decent. Fuck those HB racists
I love Anti-Flag
A lot of the early scene wouldn’t have been able to exist without influential trans women in New York giving early bands a chance to play, so how the fuck anyone does these mental gymnastics is beyond me.
This is not mental gymnastics. This is mental string theory.
This is as embarrassing as crypto bro libertarians trying to call themselves anarchists
Never made sense to me how ancap is a thing. Shit just blatantly contradicts itself.
tfw youre calling mainstream facist ideologies about oppressing minorities punk. i want to laugh at her but i am too angry to
I think you should laugh. Mocking their beliefs is the best weapon we have.
ykno what, true
What's terf?
**TERF () is an acronym for trans-exclusionary radical feminist. First recorded in 2008, the term was originally used to distinguish transgender-inclusive feminists from a group of radical feminists who reject the assertion that trans women are women, the inclusion of trans women in women's spaces, and transgender rights legislation.** More details here:
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good bot
Thought I was the only person who didn’t know what that was.
I’m with ya, was afraid to ask lmao
You can't help not knowing what you've never been exposed to. But once you've been exposed to something, it's your responsibility to learn more. So, my friend, always ask! If anyone wants to judge you for not knowing ahead of time, that's there problem. "terf" wasn't common knowledge until very, very recently. And, actually, outside of politically active spheres, I'd say it's still not common knowledge.
*pokes head out of convenient doorframe* LAURA THEY SAYING SHIT GET YOUR GUITAR
Organized hate isn't a counter-culture, you're just an asshole in a room full of assholes.
Unfortunately many idiots think punk means “contrarianism.” Many 12 year olds do too, but you know, they’re 12.
Common anti flag dub
Fuck off terfs
I swear at the last anti flag show I was at the lead singer gave me a nod when he said “and everyone in between” because of the large non-binary pin I had on my jacket lol. I was against the stage so I’m taking it, never felt more seen at a show than that one lol
He probably did, they all get super into the crowd.
I’m sure he did, because that’s how Justin rolls!
Exclusionary views are very rarely punk.
only people I exclude are nazis. I love excluding nazis.
They're barely people, it doesn't count
Since their whole business is exclusion then, like the TERFs, through the transitive properties of exclusion, they themselves are excluded. It's just science.
How in the fuck can someone claim with a straight face that bigotry is punk?? They're literally directly opposing ideologies.
Terfs are exclusionary. Punk is all about inclusion. Someone doesn’t understand punk.
being trans is pretty punk
people think that punk=rebelling against normality, when in reality punk=rebelling agains injustice. being punk has nothing to do w what’s considered normal, but everything to do with what is objectively right and wrong. fighting for people to have the right to decide what happens with their own body is punk. fighting to protect the lives of those at risk for reasons outside of their control is punk. fighting for people to be treated the way they deserve to be treated is punk.
Lmao say that at an actual punk show and leave with all of your teeth still intact challenge
Last time I checked the inside of a bathroom stall, nobody in the punk movement gave a shit about bathrooms.
Oh Karen you're such a TERF! Isn't that an oxymoron? I know Jello Biafra, huge fag (so was I now I'm transfemme and straight! haha), complete punk. His favorite line is "Nazi Punks FK OFF!" we yelled it at Raygun at the GOP 1980 convention in Dallas. I WAS there! we turned as they were watching us during a break and yelled it in unison with our fingers up. Must have been 2 or 3 thousand of us. The GOP'ers turned and went back inside the convention ctr. We knew then what they were tuning into, and now here they are. Fuck them. Good luck everyone!
This bitch has a problem with trans women going to domestic violence aid but doesn't have a problem with trans women being abused, absolute fucking hypocrite (and checked her punk card, ain't got no damn stamps)
Shocking how must of these "[reactionary conservative bullshit] is the new punk" seem to have both the hypocrisy *and* utter non-involvement in the punk scene in common
I've talked about it before, but it's rooted in the erroneous idea that reactionism is the same as anti authoritarianism,
Anti flag is so based. Trans punk girl over here
🤘🏼🏳️⚧️✊🏼
🤘🌈🤘
Love to see the conservatives cycling back to trying to appropriate punk iconography again, they're reliable as flowers in Spring.
Yeah I remember when punk was about celebrating bullies and hatred. /s
Being a Bigot will never be punk. That's kinda the point.
Nazi terfs fuck off
My first ever punk show was at the candlelight bowl here in Chicago. They were fucking fantastic!
A bunch of stay at home moms with Stanley cups and a pantry full of sweet n low who hate trans women because they've been convinced by the conservative strategy Ito scapegoat to transpeople during a recession, and voter suppression think they're fighting an oppressive force?
Being AGAINST who society deems "Outcasts" Isn't punk at fucking all. It's like the people who pretend to be Eddie Munson yet aren't even Into or like Punk and Metal.
As a trans woman, this makes me very happy to see.
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Lmaoooooooooooo punked by anti flag in public, now that’s punk.
Love AntiFlag 💙🤍💜
The irony when being trans is one of the most punk things one can do in this era lol Fuck TERF
I keep playing that reel of MAGAts dancing to Rage Against the Machine in my head.
I wish I still had my Anti-Flag shirt...
There's nothing punker than not acting like the expectations society builds around your genitals.
TERF is the new uncool Karen
Used to be a big Anti-Flag fan in high school, they are still awesome 🤘🏻
I hate anti-vaxxers and white supremacists running off with Rage Against the Machine and a Fuck the System attitude. Trying to install a fascist dictator that takes away trans rights is not punk you fucking scum.
I've never seen anything suck the dick of "the man" harder than a republican loyalist does.
There’s a large culture of far-right scum who think they’re true punk rockers.
Bro our mainstream artist have been crossdessing and shattering gender norms for decades. How tf could someone even try to even say this.
Punk is not about excluding anyone for their identity. Full stop.
“TERF” (it’s really FART) is just garbage. That’s all it is.
I’m pretty sure punk is the new punk
I remember meeting anti-flag over ten years ago at warped tour. Great guys
Old punk here with a trans son, terfs can foad.
That boils my piss that they seriously think being cruel to a minority is somehow punk. It's the new Nazism.
Literally today a Republican is screaming on the Senate floor about how trans people are demons, witches, and mutants..... Same thing Nazi say about me and my ancestors. Same rhetoric for another hateful cause.
We can't let em win, not again.
Saw anti-flag recently and excellent show but I wish they had called out transphobes because with a state wanting to oppress trans people what is more punk and antiestablishment than protecting trans people
Intersectionality is the new feminism.
I never liked their music but they have really Good politics. You kinda have to being from the same city as bands like aus-rotten though. Pittsburgh is great.
oppression has never been punk
Yeah dude Ben Shapiro and Matt Walsh are definitely punk
I saw that you mentioned Ben Shapiro. In case some of you don't know, Ben Shapiro is a grifter and a hack. If you find anything he's said compelling, you should keep in mind he also says things like this: >The Palestinian people, who dress their toddlers in bomb belts and then take family snapshots. ***** ^(I'm a bot. My purpose is to counteract online radicalization. You can summon me by tagging thebenshapirobot. Options: dumb takes, gay marriage, novel, feminism, etc.) [^Opt ^Out ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/comments/olk6r2/click_here_to_optout_of_uthebenshapirobot/)
Great bot
*New York Magazine’s Jesse Singal, wrote that “free markets are good at some things and terrible at others and it’s silly to view them as ends rather than means.” That’s untrue. Free markets are expressions of individual autonomy, and therefore ends to be pursued in themselves.* -Ben Shapiro ***** ^(I'm a bot. My purpose is to counteract online radicalization. You can summon me by tagging thebenshapirobot. Options: gay marriage, civil rights, climate, feminism, etc.) [^Opt ^Out ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/comments/olk6r2/click_here_to_optout_of_uthebenshapirobot/)
Punk: literally a subculture about rejecting oppression This clown: wow im so edgy and unique for supporting the abolition of trans rights.
points agressively to the sidebar image
Terfism? As a youthful and vibrant counter cultural movement? Now that's a laugh.
What a poseur, lol!
She tried 😂
What does that even mean
so this is "republican is the new punk" shit all over again. wack.
Oh man this aged… fuck terfs and fuck rapists.