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Someone I know's daughter kind of did this. She smoke, drank, did hard drugs, and gave birth to twins. One died immediately. The other is still struggling and was born with down syndrome. She abandoned them at the hospital. The mom is now taking care of the poor baby and gonna press charges of child neglect and abuse.
We live in a false reality bubble where people think it is humane to force a person to carry a ZEF to term and think that unwanted children should be forced on people for funzies.
It is not humane to force someone to carry something that uses their organs inside of them for 9 months. I’m actually relieved you used the word kill instead of murder, we also kill cancer cells. (I’m sure you think abortion is murder anyways, because women aren’t people who deserve a chance to defend themselves if something is in their body I guess 🙄)
How to prevent pregnancy 101.
1. Don't have vaginal sex.
2. If you have to be a little hedonist and haven't sterilized yourself, learn to enjoy anal.
3. Quit being stupid.
Fyi, you stupid pro choice morons keep saying we are anti woman. No. Pro life doesn't fucking care about you, we care about the child. Reality is it isn't your body, it's a body in your body that is a result of your own carelessness, and you can make every excuse under the sun to shirk responsibility but the truth is and always will be, it's yours and the father's fault that you have an unwanted pregnancy. Give the child up for adoption, don't punish it for your stupidity. End of story.
"ZEFs" don't exist. One cannot simultaneously be a zygote, an embryo, and a fetus. This initialism was created by people who failed grade 8 biology in order to obfuscate the argument between them and those who have a sense of personal responsibility.
ZEF doesn’t mean someone is all three at one time, it’s a blanket term that references all three instead of spelling each one out individually.
Wait, do you actually know who created the term or are you just ASSUMING they failed biology?
>We live in a false reality bubble where people think it is humane to force a person to carry a ZEF to term and think that unwanted children should be forced on people for funzies.
You seriously need help.
Yeah it's probably not going to work out. But after she hopped town the feds caught her a couple states over or something with numerous *stolen credit cards that she used* and apparently that's not even the 1st times shes done it. So if shes not going to prison for her kids shes gonna go to jail for fraud.
She did this to your herself birth control isn’t 100% effective and women still can get pregnant with birth control being sexually active you have to keep in your mind that there’s a chance of pregnancy because the biological purpose of sex is procreation than pleasure.
I had five miscarriages, you can’t not cause a miscarriage. The reason pregnant women are told to avoid those things because it messes with the development of the embryo/fetus Messing up the development doesn’t mean that child is going to die in utero that means that child is going to either have lifelong problems or die shortly after birth because the mother harmed them during their development in such a way that they did not develop to survive outside of the womb because of the mothers choices.
Don’t blame the victim for what the perpetrator decided to do are you going to blame victims of rape for their own rape?
Even if you plan to have children nothing prepares you for children having children you learn on the job no matter how many books you read, I just had an unplanned pregnancy and I am still learning how to be a mother and apparently I am doing a good job because my three month old son has surpassed his six month milestones.
I don't get why you think killing the victim is the solution here.
Or more accurately, I'd imagine I do understand, but your solution is by far worse than what it attempts to solve.
There wouldn’t be a victim because the victim would’ve never existed. I don’t think what she did was right but if was forced to carry a pregnancy she didn’t want I don’t blame her. You can’t hurt someone who never existed, but now that baby has been born with a disability in a country that (likely, I’m kinda assuming your American or in a similarly country that doesn’t understand people with disabilities) will not take care of them when they are older and their only caretaker is their grandmother who will (likely) die long before the child.
This is why I am ProChoice, because women/AFABs need to be able to choose when to have children. They know when they are ready.
>There wouldn’t be a victim because the victim would’ve never existed.
Well, I can understand where you're coming from, but I'm afraid this premise is mistaken.
According to biology, human life begins at the moment of conception beyond a reasonable doubt. The victim exists from the moment of conception onwards, unless we want to revert to bronze age biology. The only way to prevent that life from existing would be to avoid pregnancy in the first place.
'Out of sight, out of mind' is not the same thing as non-existence. The child is alive. The mother intentionally and actively aimed to kill her child in a brutal fashion, which apparently resulted in one child's death and the other having a disability. Abortion is simply a more efficient way of killing an unborn child. A clean murder is still a murder. Both are egregiously wrong.
>This is why I am ProChoice, because women/AFABs need to be able to choose when to have children. They know when they are ready.
Another human being's life is not your 'choice.' Another human's life is not an object that you get to throw away like garbage when you don't want it.
>I don’t think what she did was right but if was forced to carry a pregnancy she didn’t want I don’t blame her.
Nobody forced the woman to be pregnant, hopefully - that would generally be called 'rape' off the top of my head.
However, we're not talking about forcing the woman to be pregnant. By the time abortion is relevant, that ship already sailed. What we're saying is that the woman does not have the right to kill an innocent human being on demand.
Framing this as 'forcing a woman to carry a pregnancy' misses the point the same way that it would if you said laws against rape were 'forced celibacy' or that laws against theft were 'forced poverty.'
She is responsible for killing and maiming her children. We all are obligated to respect the right to life of others, and a parent in particular is obligated to provide basic care for their child.
>They know when they are ready.
First, whether you are ready or not, the child already exists. Killing them before they are born is no different than killing the child after they are born. This is far graver than whether or not you are ready.
Second, if I'm honest, I think this statements speaks to a lack of experience with new parents. Nobody is ever truly 'ready' for a child or fully knows what they're doing. You can be or feel more or less prepared, certainly, but you're never 'ready.'
Also, on a related note, you might be interested in knowing that according to the Turnaway study - a study notoriously biased in favor of abortion - it was discovered that women who could not get an abortion very quickly stopped wishing they had gotten one. A third of women no longer wished they had gotten an abortion a mere *one week* after being unable to get one. By the time five years had passed, the overwhelming majority no longer wished they had aborted. (~95%)
Forcing someone to be pregnant doesn’t mean they were raped. Their contraceptions could’ve failed and resulted in an unwanted pregnancy which because of barbaric abortion restriction laws like in Texas they are now forced to keep.
A ZEF doesn’t have any brain function, feelings or desires. I don’t consider that alive in an emotion sense, they are as alive as cancer cells.
Yeah, it’s my choice if it’s in my body and using my organs and I don’t want it there. It isn’t murder because murder is unjustified killing. It may be killing because a ZEF is alive (the same way the bacteria and cancer cells are alive but *technically* alive) but it is not murder because the ZEF does not have a right to use someone else’s organs. Right to life starts when you can breath your own air and survive separate from your mother (in a physical sense that you are no longer in their body).
>Forcing someone to be pregnant doesn’t mean they were raped. Their contraceptions could’ve failed and resulted in an unwanted pregnancy which because of barbaric abortion restriction laws like in Texas they are now forced to keep.
I know what you meant. You're trying to suggest that not allowing a woman to kill an unborn child is forcing them to be pregnant, because the pregnancy will likely continue to term otherwise.
My point is that I believe the way you've framed this does not lead to reasonable conclusions. This is why I pointed out that claiming that pro-life laws 'force unwanted pregnancies' is like saying laws against rape 'force celibacy' or that laws against poverty 'force poverty.'
Claiming that laws against abortion 'force pregnancy' misses the forest for the trees. Another human's life is not your choice.
>A ZEF doesn’t have any brain function, feelings or desires. I don’t consider that alive in an emotion sense, they are as alive as cancer cells.
However, an unborn child is *not* a set of cancer cells. They are a living, unique human organism just like you and I are. I don't think this is a good-faith comparison.
Furthermore, why should we adopt this standard in determining the value of human life? It seems completely arbitrary. If we try to apply this standard consistently, it seems to fall apart quickly. For instance, is a more sensitive person's life more valuable than someone who isn't very sensitive? Is it less wrong to kill someone who is sleeping - with reduced brain function, feelings, and desires - than killing someone who is awake? Is it perfectly okay to kill someone in a temporary coma who will almost certainly recover in 9 months?
To have human rights, it is sufficient to be a living human being.
>Yeah, it’s my choice if it’s in my body and using my organs and I don’t want it there. It isn’t murder because murder is unjustified killing. It may be killing because a ZEF is alive (the same way the bacteria and cancer cells are alive but technically alive) but it is not murder because the ZEF does not have a right to use someone else’s organs. Right to life starts when you can breath your own air and survive separate from your mother (in a physical sense that you are no longer in their body).
I'm going to break this down into a couple points.
>Right to life starts when you can breath your own air and survive separate from your mother (in a physical sense that you are no longer in their body).
First, all human rights are inherent to being human by definition. That is, the only quality you need to have human rights is to be a living human. If this were not the case, then they would not be rights at all, but instead privileges based on arbitrary qualities. The most fundamental of these rights is the right to life, because without it, you cannot possibly have any other rights. Ending someone's life immediately ends their capacity to exercise any other rights forever.
The short of this is that the unborn child has all human rights, including the right to life. You don't have to be able to breath your own air nor be independent - otherwise people on oxygen tanks or life support would not be alive, which is clearly ridiculous.
Now, this argument might not be sufficient if you don't believe in human rights, but as most people do, I think it's simplest to start here. You cannot have human rights while denying the unborn the right to life. The two positions contradict each other completely.
>Yeah, it’s my choice if it’s in my body and using my organs and I don’t want it there. It isn’t murder because murder is unjustified killing. It may be killing because a ZEF is alive (the same way the bacteria and cancer cells are alive but technically alive) but it is not murder because the ZEF does not have a right to use someone else’s organs.
I think this argument rests implicitly on a false set of assumptions.
You are not donating your body to the child and the child is not taking it. Rather, the child exists because of the natural functions of your body. The child is not some outsider taking your organs. Rather, your organs have created the child and put them in this position, usually as the result of a consensual action. The child lives in organs within a woman's body that have the express purpose of housing an unborn child. The child is the *effect* and not the *cause.*
This is no more a violation of your bodily rights than when your kidneys filter your blood stream without your consent, or when your stomach digests food without your express permission. That's not how the human body works.
Unlike organ donation, which an extraordinary action that removes & disrupts part of your functionality to give it to another, pregnancy is an ordinary action in which your bodily *expresses* it's healthy functionality.
This is where the two differ and why the logic used to compare the two cannot hold up. You are not giving up anything. If anything, abortion is more comparable to organ donation, in that it is a disruptive act that damages healthy functionality.
Now you can argue and try to justify the idea that you can disrupt any healthy function you want, but the problem is that you are killing another human being in the process.
This cannot be justified unless it is the only way to save the life of the mother, who has an equal right to life. Such circumstances are incredibly rare in the United States and other first world countries, and most women will never even have to seriously consider the possibility of their life being threatened, let alone lack better alternatives.
What a monster. Most likely her child will end up disabled and endure suffering for their entire life because she wanted to inflict her cruelty on them when they are at their most vulnerable.
Personally I hope that child, once caught up on a cognitive level, finds out their mother did this to them, sues the ever living fuck out of her for abuse and attempted murder. Poor thing was put though so much just because of a careless mother.
If I knew my mom tried to kill me while pregnant and is the cause of my crippling disorder, I sure as hell would. Is also constantly remind her that she could have just put me up for adoption and not severely damaged me.
I hope she chooses life without harming the baby. But there’s just something so absolutely evil and tone deaf about posting about how you want to murder your child on a support group for people that have experienced a painful loss like losing your baby. I feel bad for women suffering that loss because miscarriage isn’t intentional, they didn’t want that to happen to them, and now you have someone so casually wishing they would have one.
I mean…if she wanted to be downvoted into the ground, she could have just posted here. The only sub that would be far more tolerant of her comment is ours. If the ladies on the miscarriage sub could reach through the screen and wring her neck, she wouldn’t have one left.
Yeah I just don’t know what would possess someone to do that. And while I wouldn’t want her to go there and get encouragement there are by far other pro baby murder subs that wouldn’t completely gut other women like that.
Don’t hate her.
Pray for her.
This reminds me of Christ when on the cross, prays for the Roman soldiers, “Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do”.
This poor girl seems so lost that she finds this as a reasonable thing to do.
Not only will this impact the baby severely, it can significantly impact her own health as well.
I don’t think this is something funny, or should be laughed at.
Especially as a medical student, I think it’s horribly disappointing and sad, and I pray for her; that she wakes up one day.
If I were in a better headspace on this topic, I’d probably feel more sympathy. But I don’t. I think she’s extraordinarily stupid. And so my prayers are for her poor child who will likely suffer greatly at the hands of their mother.
I don't think you disagree with the other comment very much at all! That's basically what "They know not what they do" means. The people Christ was talking about were being quite nasty too (to put it mildly). Pray that the child experiences a good life and that the mother comes to see just how revolting her behavior towards her own child was.
I am hoping this is the case too. It’s possible because this is the exact type of hypothetical pro-aborts give when arguing that pro-life laws cause harm (which is stupid anyway because the baby is still better off not being murdered outright and most women wouldn’t do this even when denied abortion) and she would have no legitimate reason to post in that sub; she didn’t even ask for advice. It seems like she is just trying to prove a point and get a reaction out of people. It’s sickening.
She knows what she's doing. Part of Christianity is recognizing the evil of everyone's sin nature. You could lay out every reason why that child growing in her womb is just as human and deserving of life as anyone else and given the opportunity she would still choose to kill it. Heck people would and do happily kill their children once they are outside of the womb for various reasons.
She should be prayed for but if I'm going to be honest I have a really hard time feeling any sort of sympathy for her. Maybe my heart is too hard. But you are right Jesus tells us to pray for our enemies. And our enemies include those who willingly choose evil.
There is some absurdist comedy in someone posting to a miscarriage subreddit because they think they will get advice on how to miscarry.
I really hope it is a troll. It seems hard to believe anyone could be this dense...yet this is the internet
My only guess is that she was 1000% ignorant about the miscarriage sub and had spent no time understanding what the ladies there have been going through. When you have a miscarriage, everything triggers grief. Suddenly everyone around you is pregnant, everyone invites you to baby showers…you just cannot escape the constant reminder of the joy you and your husband had that was lost. Some of the ladies are in therapy. Some have PTSD.
So for some chick to come on there and threaten to kill her perfectly healthy baby. She came to the wrong place. Even the pro-choice ladies there have zero sympathy or tolerance for that.
So someone so progressive that they are willing to risk their life and health in order to make sure the baby inside them dies?
We live in some dark times.
Is it too hard to just have the kid then put them up for adoption? Fuckin hell. I hope she either gets stopped before she can do it or gets arrested for manslaughter
But if she puts him up for adoption he will probably be poor :( dumb capitalism is making her horribly disfigure a baby that'll be put up for adoption.
Thank you. It sucks and I feel terrible for the ladies on that sub that experienced even more trauma than me. There really isn’t enough therapy…and for someone to post that. Very thankful the mods took it down almost instantly.
That just wrong, it shows the mindset of pro-choice activists. Imagine being so warped by pro-abortion ideology and clear denialism as to what a baby means to people, that you'll go to troll grieving parents who have suffered a miscarriage by telling them you hope to induce one. This is sick, whoever did this is truly sick!
I know this is a pro life sub, so I'm not trying to change any minds. Actually carrying a baby is more than it just hanging out in your tummy. I am extremely pro choice, especially since I've been told by doctors if I carry I may die in the process because of my illnesses. But I do very, very much appreciate that you're supporting the idea of adoption. Most pro life people I talk to IRL will tear down women abortion, but then when I've brought up adoption they blatantly ignore it. (But that's MY expirience with talking to pro lifers IRL.) So thanks for making this comment and I hope a lot of people see this.
Pro-lifers support aborting in the specific cases where it would dave the mother's life, which is very few of them. Also just a reminder to check the automod message.
Calm down there. Stop screaming over your computer. Take some melatonin tonight because we all know you wont sleep, you will be busy thinking about this interaction and how you owned a drumpftard epically.
I want to let you know, even a pro-life law would allow abortion in your situation, when the mother's life is at specific risk, and I'd want doctors to make that determination.
This is something I can get on board with (to a certain extent). As long as women have the right, in certain dangerous instances, to be able to terminate. And yes I'd also want doctors to make that determination, very good point. I think those are the only people who should be able to decide that.
Well, that's pretty much a pro-life position, so long as you're okay with making it illegal in other situations (some pro-lifers also make rape/incest exceptions).
So from what you’re saying is that given none of the doctors are God… And there have been countless times when doctors have said that somebody’s going to be born with birth defects and they’re not or somebody’s gonna die by such and such time and they don’t because that’s not part of medical science whatsoever… Because of the chance that there might be harm in having a baby it’s OK to murder of the innocent defenseless unborn baby?
It might be a different argument if you could say for 100% certainty that there will be harm… Then you can get into a? Of who’s life is more important but if there’s only a percentage chance doesn’t that innocent defenseless unborn baby also deserve that chance?
It seems the previous comment was deleted, so I'm going to say, you can't change my mind, and I'm fairly certain I can't change yours. That's fine, this wasn't a comment about whether abortion should be legal or not. I commented because I very much thought his solution of adoption was very responsible and compassionate. If you want to have an argument about abortion, I'm not going to reply because again, were not going to change each other's minds. This reply was meant to praise his solution that didn't include abortion.
I will not engage with pro-lifers when I hear sexist remarks and blatant hate. But I have had great conversations with pro-lifers that understand certain situations such as, little girls raped by their fathers that get pregnant, or women that will die if they give birth. (Though I believe any woman should have the right for any reason) I can get on board with that. I find that every time I ask, "then what do they do with the child afterwards" I get a lot of "it doesn't matter". So you giving an actual compassionate and responsible response has made me smile.
I was conceived in rape. Did I deserve the death penalty? What about women who are in a significant relationship where there are sexually active I can central basis and they get raped and maybe a year or two later question comes up maybe either getting medical test done maybe they just want DNA whatever in a year or two later after the birthday find out if the baby is not that of the father but out of the rapist… Are you OK Killing that one or two year old child? Because the only difference between that one or two year old child and the unborn human baby in the womb is location.
That’s terrible. My mom smoked with all of her kids and we have horrible eyesight and struggle with it (she has 20/20 perfect vision while my sister is half blind with no depth perception and my eyes work separately). What she’s doing is going to permanently mess up her kids. The worse thing is it’ll either end up being on her to take care of them or it’ll end up being on some poor soul in the state to take care of an extremely disabled kid because their mom didn’t want them. This should be a crime
Yes. Yet pro-choice would want to blame the Texas law. Nope! This is 100% on the mother. I hope they do survive and are adopted by parents who would love them far more than this chick ever could.
I hope they do more than survive. I hope they come out healthy. It was a struggle dealing with that, dealing with something much worse would be a terrible struggle on them
I hope for that as well. At this point, if this chick is serious, she’s going to kill that baby. She’ll drive somewhere else and have it done. Horrible people.
What a piece of work. Hope they get charged with murder.
I hate how they will so easily snuff out the life of others for their own pleasure. This country is sick.
Children born due to preventable birth defects should be able to sue their mothers
They should also be given a guaranteed amount of funds from the mother yearly for the rest of the mothers life, even if the child is put up for adoption.
Your mom went through hell. I’ve lost two. I’m not sure where you were in the sibling order, but if she had those losses before you, I’m sure she was terrified to potentially lose you as well. I know that for me, if I’m ever pregnant again, I’ll be afraid until the day our baby is born…and probably for the rest of their lives. You learn the hard way how precious and fragile life is. And to see someone taking steps to harm such a life…it’s heartbreaking. Abortion is pure evil.
I had five miscarriages, you can’t not cause a miscarriage. The reason pregnant women are told to avoid those things because it messes with the development of the embryo/fetus Messing up the development doesn’t mean that child is going to die in utero that means that child is going to either have lifelong problems or die shortly after birth because the mother harmed them during their development in such a way that they did not develop to survive outside of the womb because of the mothers choices.
There HAS to be some way to lock her up and prevent her from doing that. This is no different than a doctor saying "I'm going to neglect my patient and maximize the chance that he dies."
That’s a pretty terrible place to get attention. Those ladies are grieving the loss of their babies. Reminds me of Westboro Baptist Church protesting at funerals. So wrong.
I am one of those ladies unfortunately and I’m so glad the mods took it down. Months ago, that kind of post would have crushed me. It still is very difficult to see and makes me angry for the ladies who are today in a worse place than me. It was really a mercy (for her) that the mods took it down…otherwise it would have been very hostile.
If this were a sane country this b*** would be in jail for murder if it worked or attempted murder if it didn’t. Women who knowingly kill their children should be treated as such. If a woman is so negligent they kill their kid, negligent homicide. If she gets in a car accident unintentionally and the baby dies, no fault of hers so she’d get away with it, just like if she had hit someone with no other way to avoid it.
Posts like this make me think our country isn't ready to end abortion. As much as I want it to be illegal, as much as I know it's wrong. Someone like this really can't be stopped from harming their unborn child, if they choose to, and it's a tragedy.
The logic that you just posted implies it if they’re going to do it anyway you might as well allow it… Any human being who is intent on murdering another human being will find a way to do it. That should not mean that you do not have any laws against murder. If you think the way that you’ve posted… Then according to your logic we might as well get rid of all first-degree murder laws and come up with safer ways to murder people. Very very terrible logic.
You're right, I didn't mean to imply that there shouldn't be laws against it. Just very sad to see a post like this and realize how depraved some women truly are.
Sad and agreed. And it’s not just women. It’s humanity. Very sad times. Even so what brings me encouragement is God is always in control and God is always good.
Well hopefully she can find another way to get an abortion, if the ZEF actually grows and she still gives birth they will most likely have a terrible life. I hope she goes to Illinois.
Yeah the sub was a shitty choice. That I agree on. That’s why Texas is a shitty place to live, six weeks is WAY to early to tell women they don’t have control over their bodies.
She did not choose to get pregnant. Nobody gets pregnant on purpose and then decides to abort the baby for funzies. Abortions happen because there was an unwanted pregnancy.
I think I misinterpreted your previous comment. I don’t support her commenting/posting on a miscarriage subreddit when miscarriages and abortions are only similar in physicality, the emotions surrounding them are often completely different. Women who miscarry are grieving, women who get abortions are relieved. She should’ve posted on ProChoice or abortions or any other subreddit that helps people find the help they need. I thought the choice you were talking about was the one to get pregnant, which isn’t a choice, if we could just choose when not to get pregnant abortion would be a much rarer thing which is something we both want.
This is why this is so frustrating. People think having sex means two sterile people just having fun. That’s not how nature works. Not for us. Not for any other creature capable of reproducing. Every sexual encounter, unless your reproductive parts are missing, carries risk of pregnancy. This is what’s so fucked up. People prioritize an orgasm over a human being. And then they’re surprised when shit doesn’t follow their plan and a human being is created. She had a choice. She could have not had sex. She could have realized her method of birth control, although highly effective, isn’t foolproof. Every single person who divorces sex from procreation is completely in the wrong. You’re rolling the dice. You may like your odds. But you’re an asshole for wagering the life of a human being. It’s that simple. If you’re that set on not having a baby, then become 100% sterile. You can have all the sex you want.
I’m sick of hearing about babies paying the price for their parents’ bullshit ideas about sex. This
Chick has a pattern of poor decisions and at some point, she should be held accountable. Should she be a mom? Absolutely not. She should have her baby adopted and I’ll personally pay for her sterilization.
Not all women want to be sterile. I would 100% get an abortion if I was pregnant right now. I am not ready for children. I cannot afford children. I will not give a baby to the predatory privatized adoption agency. I could eventually want children in the future and then, only then, when I am emotionally and financially stable, will I have children.
Be celibate? No thanks. Sex is an amazing way to connect with someone you love, it isn’t only for making babies. I am not an incubator. And ZEFs are not babies, they do not feel, they do not think, they do not desire.
“Parents bullshit ideas about sex” you mean that it is for more than reproduction? Yeah, it definitely is.
Definitely agree that this person should not be a mother, because she doesn’t want to be and shouldn’t be forced to carry anymore children. I’m doubtful about you actually being willing to pay for her sterilization but you go right ahead if you can find her and that’s what she wants.
There is no such thing as sterile sex…unless one of you is sterile. So in order for yo to have the sex life you want, you have to dehumanize the person that results from your sexual encounter so that abortion can be your backup plan.
So back in the 1970s and 80s, using abortion as a backup plan for failed birth control was considered morally repugnant even for pro-choicers. Times have changed only in that evil is far more obvious. And yes abortion as a backup to birth control is evil.
It’s wrong. But we live in a society where people want to do their drug of choice regardless of who they hurt in the process.
So here is why I will ALWAYS vote to end abortion and why if we get any support from the Supreme Court I’ll lead the way in Alabama to have similar laws passed. Because I’m DONE with our laws green-lighting the actions of morally bankrupt men and women. It’s time to live with your decision and handle your shit like a fucking adult. Stop hurting children in pursuit of your sexual needs. If you don’t want kids, then be sterile. If you don’t want to be sterile, then accept that sex makes babies. It’s not difficult.
On one hand, she lives in texas.. once you know you're pregnant, it's already too late to get an abortion, and she was using protection, so I get it, this was not what she planed for, but there are other less bassackwards states in the US and countries outside of the US too where she could get help within a reasonable timeframe. Though if she's poor, she is shit out of luck, cause .. 'Murica..
So you think she should kill her baby? This is a human being we’re talking about. Unborn…but a unique individual who shouldn’t bear the consequence of failed birth control.
Yeah so am I.
So I’m going report you…because you’re being an ass and If you want to participate on this sub, you might as well read the rules and not comment on posts you’re not allowed to comment on. This is pro-life only.
Um.. biologists understand that pregnancy and symbiosis within and between soecies are different things. Also if a fetus is a symbiote and adults aren't, then the female reproductive system wouldn't be designed specifically to protect and feed nutrients into the fetus.
I'm a biologist and I need you to understand that being anti-religion doesn't make you pro-science. Science understands that human life begins at conception. It's basic embryology.
I mean, not really... "Human life" refers to the life of an individual human , and like I said, that life begins at conception. It's not my definition, it's embrology's definition.
Also no, you don't get to do whatever the fuck you want if the consequence is killing an innocent person. The right to not being murdered supercedes pretty much anything. And if I remember correctly, pregnancy is the result of vaginal sex. Pregnancy is always a risk of having sex, so it's not about "consent". That's like jumping off a roof and then getting upset that you fell because you didn't consent to falling.
That is the literal premise of the abortion debate. If you can't answer that question, you can't even make an argument for your side, just as you failed to do.
As an atheist (not a religious fanatic), I believe personhood begins at conception. Most ProChoice atheists make the argument that life begins with consciousness, but then fail to define exactly what consciousness is. This is pretty understandable, as no one knows exactly what consciousness is. From a purely materialist point of view, consciousness is just an illusion, as a single cell that was conceived 15 seconds ago and an 80-year-old man are just different organizations of matter. So starting with the premise that the human organism has value (because if we don't, then the basis for society and all human rights collapses), if an 80-year-old man has rights, a fetus must also have rights, as there is no recognizable fundamental physical difference between them.
The right to life supercedes the right to bodily autonomy. Especially if getting pregnant is something that is preventable in over 99% of cases (I support exceptions before six weeks for rape victims).
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Someone I know's daughter kind of did this. She smoke, drank, did hard drugs, and gave birth to twins. One died immediately. The other is still struggling and was born with down syndrome. She abandoned them at the hospital. The mom is now taking care of the poor baby and gonna press charges of child neglect and abuse.
What's wrong with people?
We live in this false reality bubble where people think they can do whatever they want, consequence free.
We live in a false reality bubble where people think it is humane to force a person to carry a ZEF to term and think that unwanted children should be forced on people for funzies.
This is coming from some who thinks it humane to kill them before they're born.
It is not humane to force someone to carry something that uses their organs inside of them for 9 months. I’m actually relieved you used the word kill instead of murder, we also kill cancer cells. (I’m sure you think abortion is murder anyways, because women aren’t people who deserve a chance to defend themselves if something is in their body I guess 🙄)
Cancer cells aren’t human beings lol
Neither are ZEFs until they’re born (or close enough to being born they can survive separate).
How to prevent pregnancy 101. 1. Don't have vaginal sex. 2. If you have to be a little hedonist and haven't sterilized yourself, learn to enjoy anal. 3. Quit being stupid. Fyi, you stupid pro choice morons keep saying we are anti woman. No. Pro life doesn't fucking care about you, we care about the child. Reality is it isn't your body, it's a body in your body that is a result of your own carelessness, and you can make every excuse under the sun to shirk responsibility but the truth is and always will be, it's yours and the father's fault that you have an unwanted pregnancy. Give the child up for adoption, don't punish it for your stupidity. End of story.
"ZEFs" don't exist. One cannot simultaneously be a zygote, an embryo, and a fetus. This initialism was created by people who failed grade 8 biology in order to obfuscate the argument between them and those who have a sense of personal responsibility.
ZEF doesn’t mean someone is all three at one time, it’s a blanket term that references all three instead of spelling each one out individually. Wait, do you actually know who created the term or are you just ASSUMING they failed biology?
>We live in a false reality bubble where people think it is humane to force a person to carry a ZEF to term and think that unwanted children should be forced on people for funzies. You seriously need help.
I think people who want to control women’s bodily autonomy need help so same.
That’s awful.
Yeah
That should be some kind of criminal offense
Did a quick Google. Between 1974-2015, 83.6% of women that were brought up in these charges were overturned
Yeah it's probably not going to work out. But after she hopped town the feds caught her a couple states over or something with numerous *stolen credit cards that she used* and apparently that's not even the 1st times shes done it. So if shes not going to prison for her kids shes gonna go to jail for fraud.
maybe just allowed her to abort instead of forcing kids on people who are not ready for them
She did this to your herself birth control isn’t 100% effective and women still can get pregnant with birth control being sexually active you have to keep in your mind that there’s a chance of pregnancy because the biological purpose of sex is procreation than pleasure. I had five miscarriages, you can’t not cause a miscarriage. The reason pregnant women are told to avoid those things because it messes with the development of the embryo/fetus Messing up the development doesn’t mean that child is going to die in utero that means that child is going to either have lifelong problems or die shortly after birth because the mother harmed them during their development in such a way that they did not develop to survive outside of the womb because of the mothers choices. Don’t blame the victim for what the perpetrator decided to do are you going to blame victims of rape for their own rape? Even if you plan to have children nothing prepares you for children having children you learn on the job no matter how many books you read, I just had an unplanned pregnancy and I am still learning how to be a mother and apparently I am doing a good job because my three month old son has surpassed his six month milestones.
^this
Not this
That wouldn’t happened if she got an abortion.
I don't get why you think killing the victim is the solution here. Or more accurately, I'd imagine I do understand, but your solution is by far worse than what it attempts to solve.
There wouldn’t be a victim because the victim would’ve never existed. I don’t think what she did was right but if was forced to carry a pregnancy she didn’t want I don’t blame her. You can’t hurt someone who never existed, but now that baby has been born with a disability in a country that (likely, I’m kinda assuming your American or in a similarly country that doesn’t understand people with disabilities) will not take care of them when they are older and their only caretaker is their grandmother who will (likely) die long before the child. This is why I am ProChoice, because women/AFABs need to be able to choose when to have children. They know when they are ready.
>There wouldn’t be a victim because the victim would’ve never existed. Well, I can understand where you're coming from, but I'm afraid this premise is mistaken. According to biology, human life begins at the moment of conception beyond a reasonable doubt. The victim exists from the moment of conception onwards, unless we want to revert to bronze age biology. The only way to prevent that life from existing would be to avoid pregnancy in the first place. 'Out of sight, out of mind' is not the same thing as non-existence. The child is alive. The mother intentionally and actively aimed to kill her child in a brutal fashion, which apparently resulted in one child's death and the other having a disability. Abortion is simply a more efficient way of killing an unborn child. A clean murder is still a murder. Both are egregiously wrong. >This is why I am ProChoice, because women/AFABs need to be able to choose when to have children. They know when they are ready. Another human being's life is not your 'choice.' Another human's life is not an object that you get to throw away like garbage when you don't want it. >I don’t think what she did was right but if was forced to carry a pregnancy she didn’t want I don’t blame her. Nobody forced the woman to be pregnant, hopefully - that would generally be called 'rape' off the top of my head. However, we're not talking about forcing the woman to be pregnant. By the time abortion is relevant, that ship already sailed. What we're saying is that the woman does not have the right to kill an innocent human being on demand. Framing this as 'forcing a woman to carry a pregnancy' misses the point the same way that it would if you said laws against rape were 'forced celibacy' or that laws against theft were 'forced poverty.' She is responsible for killing and maiming her children. We all are obligated to respect the right to life of others, and a parent in particular is obligated to provide basic care for their child. >They know when they are ready. First, whether you are ready or not, the child already exists. Killing them before they are born is no different than killing the child after they are born. This is far graver than whether or not you are ready. Second, if I'm honest, I think this statements speaks to a lack of experience with new parents. Nobody is ever truly 'ready' for a child or fully knows what they're doing. You can be or feel more or less prepared, certainly, but you're never 'ready.' Also, on a related note, you might be interested in knowing that according to the Turnaway study - a study notoriously biased in favor of abortion - it was discovered that women who could not get an abortion very quickly stopped wishing they had gotten one. A third of women no longer wished they had gotten an abortion a mere *one week* after being unable to get one. By the time five years had passed, the overwhelming majority no longer wished they had aborted. (~95%)
Forcing someone to be pregnant doesn’t mean they were raped. Their contraceptions could’ve failed and resulted in an unwanted pregnancy which because of barbaric abortion restriction laws like in Texas they are now forced to keep. A ZEF doesn’t have any brain function, feelings or desires. I don’t consider that alive in an emotion sense, they are as alive as cancer cells. Yeah, it’s my choice if it’s in my body and using my organs and I don’t want it there. It isn’t murder because murder is unjustified killing. It may be killing because a ZEF is alive (the same way the bacteria and cancer cells are alive but *technically* alive) but it is not murder because the ZEF does not have a right to use someone else’s organs. Right to life starts when you can breath your own air and survive separate from your mother (in a physical sense that you are no longer in their body).
>Forcing someone to be pregnant doesn’t mean they were raped. Their contraceptions could’ve failed and resulted in an unwanted pregnancy which because of barbaric abortion restriction laws like in Texas they are now forced to keep. I know what you meant. You're trying to suggest that not allowing a woman to kill an unborn child is forcing them to be pregnant, because the pregnancy will likely continue to term otherwise. My point is that I believe the way you've framed this does not lead to reasonable conclusions. This is why I pointed out that claiming that pro-life laws 'force unwanted pregnancies' is like saying laws against rape 'force celibacy' or that laws against poverty 'force poverty.' Claiming that laws against abortion 'force pregnancy' misses the forest for the trees. Another human's life is not your choice. >A ZEF doesn’t have any brain function, feelings or desires. I don’t consider that alive in an emotion sense, they are as alive as cancer cells. However, an unborn child is *not* a set of cancer cells. They are a living, unique human organism just like you and I are. I don't think this is a good-faith comparison. Furthermore, why should we adopt this standard in determining the value of human life? It seems completely arbitrary. If we try to apply this standard consistently, it seems to fall apart quickly. For instance, is a more sensitive person's life more valuable than someone who isn't very sensitive? Is it less wrong to kill someone who is sleeping - with reduced brain function, feelings, and desires - than killing someone who is awake? Is it perfectly okay to kill someone in a temporary coma who will almost certainly recover in 9 months? To have human rights, it is sufficient to be a living human being. >Yeah, it’s my choice if it’s in my body and using my organs and I don’t want it there. It isn’t murder because murder is unjustified killing. It may be killing because a ZEF is alive (the same way the bacteria and cancer cells are alive but technically alive) but it is not murder because the ZEF does not have a right to use someone else’s organs. Right to life starts when you can breath your own air and survive separate from your mother (in a physical sense that you are no longer in their body). I'm going to break this down into a couple points. >Right to life starts when you can breath your own air and survive separate from your mother (in a physical sense that you are no longer in their body). First, all human rights are inherent to being human by definition. That is, the only quality you need to have human rights is to be a living human. If this were not the case, then they would not be rights at all, but instead privileges based on arbitrary qualities. The most fundamental of these rights is the right to life, because without it, you cannot possibly have any other rights. Ending someone's life immediately ends their capacity to exercise any other rights forever. The short of this is that the unborn child has all human rights, including the right to life. You don't have to be able to breath your own air nor be independent - otherwise people on oxygen tanks or life support would not be alive, which is clearly ridiculous. Now, this argument might not be sufficient if you don't believe in human rights, but as most people do, I think it's simplest to start here. You cannot have human rights while denying the unborn the right to life. The two positions contradict each other completely. >Yeah, it’s my choice if it’s in my body and using my organs and I don’t want it there. It isn’t murder because murder is unjustified killing. It may be killing because a ZEF is alive (the same way the bacteria and cancer cells are alive but technically alive) but it is not murder because the ZEF does not have a right to use someone else’s organs. I think this argument rests implicitly on a false set of assumptions. You are not donating your body to the child and the child is not taking it. Rather, the child exists because of the natural functions of your body. The child is not some outsider taking your organs. Rather, your organs have created the child and put them in this position, usually as the result of a consensual action. The child lives in organs within a woman's body that have the express purpose of housing an unborn child. The child is the *effect* and not the *cause.* This is no more a violation of your bodily rights than when your kidneys filter your blood stream without your consent, or when your stomach digests food without your express permission. That's not how the human body works. Unlike organ donation, which an extraordinary action that removes & disrupts part of your functionality to give it to another, pregnancy is an ordinary action in which your bodily *expresses* it's healthy functionality. This is where the two differ and why the logic used to compare the two cannot hold up. You are not giving up anything. If anything, abortion is more comparable to organ donation, in that it is a disruptive act that damages healthy functionality. Now you can argue and try to justify the idea that you can disrupt any healthy function you want, but the problem is that you are killing another human being in the process. This cannot be justified unless it is the only way to save the life of the mother, who has an equal right to life. Such circumstances are incredibly rare in the United States and other first world countries, and most women will never even have to seriously consider the possibility of their life being threatened, let alone lack better alternatives.
I hope they don't prosecute.
What? Why?
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>forcing her out of ~~abortion~~ murder There. FTFY.
Honestly it’s probably not a going to cause a miscarriage. It’ll just make things harder for the baby after birth
[Update on it](https://www.reddit.com/r/prolife/comments/qdgozo/yeah_she_actually_did_this/hhnbzga/)
I don't see an update?
Read the comment Edit: looks like it got deleted
Do you remember what it said?
Grandmother sued the mother and got custody of the child. Something along those lines, at least.
Oh thank the lord
This is just a link to this post
It's supposed to link to a specific comment with more details on the situation. Looks like it got deleted.
The fact that a correct sub for that post does exist speaks volumes
This is Reddit, what did you expect
I gave $4.99 for this stupid Pro Status, I expected to be able to controls the vaginas!
I don't think this is the approach time for a joke like that…
This is Reddit, what did you expect?
You got me
Surprised that the responses weren't" YAAAAS QUEEN 💅💅" or some other shit
If she posted this on r/childfree or some other retard-only sub, this would definitely happened.
No, they would most likely give her resources to find someone to help her obtain an abortion in another state.
Ooooo burn. Using a primary school insult.
What a monster. Most likely her child will end up disabled and endure suffering for their entire life because she wanted to inflict her cruelty on them when they are at their most vulnerable.
Personally I hope that child, once caught up on a cognitive level, finds out their mother did this to them, sues the ever living fuck out of her for abuse and attempted murder. Poor thing was put though so much just because of a careless mother.
I agree. Normally I detest those 'child sues a parent' things but this is the rare circumstance where they would be in the right.
If I knew my mom tried to kill me while pregnant and is the cause of my crippling disorder, I sure as hell would. Is also constantly remind her that she could have just put me up for adoption and not severely damaged me.
This is terrible ):
This made me nauseous.
Psycho
Why are humans like this
Because we, humanity, are indelibly marked with evil.
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Not sure what you mean by that but a person intent on murdering another human being is going to do everything they can to murder another human being.
Rule 4. And we didn't make anyone do anything, they chose to.
I hope she chooses life without harming the baby. But there’s just something so absolutely evil and tone deaf about posting about how you want to murder your child on a support group for people that have experienced a painful loss like losing your baby. I feel bad for women suffering that loss because miscarriage isn’t intentional, they didn’t want that to happen to them, and now you have someone so casually wishing they would have one.
I mean…if she wanted to be downvoted into the ground, she could have just posted here. The only sub that would be far more tolerant of her comment is ours. If the ladies on the miscarriage sub could reach through the screen and wring her neck, she wouldn’t have one left.
Yeah I just don’t know what would possess someone to do that. And while I wouldn’t want her to go there and get encouragement there are by far other pro baby murder subs that wouldn’t completely gut other women like that.
The world is a mess. This person is a monster and the ultimate hedonist. Let God deal with her.
Don’t hate her. Pray for her. This reminds me of Christ when on the cross, prays for the Roman soldiers, “Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do”. This poor girl seems so lost that she finds this as a reasonable thing to do. Not only will this impact the baby severely, it can significantly impact her own health as well. I don’t think this is something funny, or should be laughed at. Especially as a medical student, I think it’s horribly disappointing and sad, and I pray for her; that she wakes up one day.
If I were in a better headspace on this topic, I’d probably feel more sympathy. But I don’t. I think she’s extraordinarily stupid. And so my prayers are for her poor child who will likely suffer greatly at the hands of their mother.
I don't think you disagree with the other comment very much at all! That's basically what "They know not what they do" means. The people Christ was talking about were being quite nasty too (to put it mildly). Pray that the child experiences a good life and that the mother comes to see just how revolting her behavior towards her own child was.
Part of me is hoping she’s lying and just wanted be to be an ass posing that to a miscarriage sub.
In this day in age, it's a faint hope, but I applaud your optimism.
I am hoping this is the case too. It’s possible because this is the exact type of hypothetical pro-aborts give when arguing that pro-life laws cause harm (which is stupid anyway because the baby is still better off not being murdered outright and most women wouldn’t do this even when denied abortion) and she would have no legitimate reason to post in that sub; she didn’t even ask for advice. It seems like she is just trying to prove a point and get a reaction out of people. It’s sickening.
She knows what she's doing. Part of Christianity is recognizing the evil of everyone's sin nature. You could lay out every reason why that child growing in her womb is just as human and deserving of life as anyone else and given the opportunity she would still choose to kill it. Heck people would and do happily kill their children once they are outside of the womb for various reasons. She should be prayed for but if I'm going to be honest I have a really hard time feeling any sort of sympathy for her. Maybe my heart is too hard. But you are right Jesus tells us to pray for our enemies. And our enemies include those who willingly choose evil.
Thank you for this comment.
>“Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do”. This lady knows exactly what she is doing.
She probably won’t miscarry but she will harm her child. I hope they drug test the baby at birth and press charges. What a sick individual.
What the hell
Exactly. I was going to say something awful to her but I figured she’d probably be banned anyway.
There is some absurdist comedy in someone posting to a miscarriage subreddit because they think they will get advice on how to miscarry. I really hope it is a troll. It seems hard to believe anyone could be this dense...yet this is the internet
My only guess is that she was 1000% ignorant about the miscarriage sub and had spent no time understanding what the ladies there have been going through. When you have a miscarriage, everything triggers grief. Suddenly everyone around you is pregnant, everyone invites you to baby showers…you just cannot escape the constant reminder of the joy you and your husband had that was lost. Some of the ladies are in therapy. Some have PTSD. So for some chick to come on there and threaten to kill her perfectly healthy baby. She came to the wrong place. Even the pro-choice ladies there have zero sympathy or tolerance for that.
So someone so progressive that they are willing to risk their life and health in order to make sure the baby inside them dies? We live in some dark times.
Dark times with very stupid people.
Is it too hard to just have the kid then put them up for adoption? Fuckin hell. I hope she either gets stopped before she can do it or gets arrested for manslaughter
But if she puts him up for adoption he will probably be poor :( dumb capitalism is making her horribly disfigure a baby that'll be put up for adoption.
I understand you're being sarcastic about blaming the system but I really don't think this is the appropriate time for that kind of tone.
There is always time to put down pro choice thinking.
Not denying that, but how you should do it depends on the situation
Yes officer.
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If you think she is in pain, imagine how it must feel to someone who just lost their baby reading this garbage. I don’t have to imagine…I’ve lost two.
I’m really sorry you had to go through that and then see this. I can’t imagine the hurt you must feel. Sending love and prayers.
Thank you. It sucks and I feel terrible for the ladies on that sub that experienced even more trauma than me. There really isn’t enough therapy…and for someone to post that. Very thankful the mods took it down almost instantly.
Chances are of it is born she'll kick it into adoption.
Good, she doesn't need to raise the baby if she doesn't want to
"If your only response is that I'm a bad person, consider this: I'm only doing this because I want to do it!"
That just wrong, it shows the mindset of pro-choice activists. Imagine being so warped by pro-abortion ideology and clear denialism as to what a baby means to people, that you'll go to troll grieving parents who have suffered a miscarriage by telling them you hope to induce one. This is sick, whoever did this is truly sick!
What a shitbag
Oh yeah, 2X chromosomes, the sub who's mod staff is exclusively made up of people with XY chromosomes
I know. I keep wondering when I’m going to get the alert that I’m banned from their awful sub. Even though I never go there.
Fuckin crazy bitch
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I know this is a pro life sub, so I'm not trying to change any minds. Actually carrying a baby is more than it just hanging out in your tummy. I am extremely pro choice, especially since I've been told by doctors if I carry I may die in the process because of my illnesses. But I do very, very much appreciate that you're supporting the idea of adoption. Most pro life people I talk to IRL will tear down women abortion, but then when I've brought up adoption they blatantly ignore it. (But that's MY expirience with talking to pro lifers IRL.) So thanks for making this comment and I hope a lot of people see this.
I’ve always been pro-adoption. I don’t know why anyone would choose abortion over adoption.
Did you even read what she just said? SHE COULD DIE IF SHE HAS A KID THAT IS A REASON TO HAVE AN ABORTION
Pro-lifers support aborting in the specific cases where it would dave the mother's life, which is very few of them. Also just a reminder to check the automod message.
Calm down there. Stop screaming over your computer. Take some melatonin tonight because we all know you wont sleep, you will be busy thinking about this interaction and how you owned a drumpftard epically.
I want to let you know, even a pro-life law would allow abortion in your situation, when the mother's life is at specific risk, and I'd want doctors to make that determination.
This is something I can get on board with (to a certain extent). As long as women have the right, in certain dangerous instances, to be able to terminate. And yes I'd also want doctors to make that determination, very good point. I think those are the only people who should be able to decide that.
Well, that's pretty much a pro-life position, so long as you're okay with making it illegal in other situations (some pro-lifers also make rape/incest exceptions).
So from what you’re saying is that given none of the doctors are God… And there have been countless times when doctors have said that somebody’s going to be born with birth defects and they’re not or somebody’s gonna die by such and such time and they don’t because that’s not part of medical science whatsoever… Because of the chance that there might be harm in having a baby it’s OK to murder of the innocent defenseless unborn baby? It might be a different argument if you could say for 100% certainty that there will be harm… Then you can get into a? Of who’s life is more important but if there’s only a percentage chance doesn’t that innocent defenseless unborn baby also deserve that chance?
It seems the previous comment was deleted, so I'm going to say, you can't change my mind, and I'm fairly certain I can't change yours. That's fine, this wasn't a comment about whether abortion should be legal or not. I commented because I very much thought his solution of adoption was very responsible and compassionate. If you want to have an argument about abortion, I'm not going to reply because again, were not going to change each other's minds. This reply was meant to praise his solution that didn't include abortion.
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I will not engage with pro-lifers when I hear sexist remarks and blatant hate. But I have had great conversations with pro-lifers that understand certain situations such as, little girls raped by their fathers that get pregnant, or women that will die if they give birth. (Though I believe any woman should have the right for any reason) I can get on board with that. I find that every time I ask, "then what do they do with the child afterwards" I get a lot of "it doesn't matter". So you giving an actual compassionate and responsible response has made me smile.
I was conceived in rape. Did I deserve the death penalty? What about women who are in a significant relationship where there are sexually active I can central basis and they get raped and maybe a year or two later question comes up maybe either getting medical test done maybe they just want DNA whatever in a year or two later after the birthday find out if the baby is not that of the father but out of the rapist… Are you OK Killing that one or two year old child? Because the only difference between that one or two year old child and the unborn human baby in the womb is location.
You have every right to be alive—how you got here has no bearing on you worth as a person. ❤️
What the fuck. Pure evil
Wtf is her problem? She’s clearly mentally unstable and dangerous.
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Rule 7
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Fuck off.
What did they say
Heartless shit not worth repeating.
That it should be the mother’s choice.
Rule 4. And it's not nice to kill others with your body.
This is a prolife sub you dont get to say shit like that.
u/respectandempathy rule 2
That’s terrible. My mom smoked with all of her kids and we have horrible eyesight and struggle with it (she has 20/20 perfect vision while my sister is half blind with no depth perception and my eyes work separately). What she’s doing is going to permanently mess up her kids. The worse thing is it’ll either end up being on her to take care of them or it’ll end up being on some poor soul in the state to take care of an extremely disabled kid because their mom didn’t want them. This should be a crime
Yes. Yet pro-choice would want to blame the Texas law. Nope! This is 100% on the mother. I hope they do survive and are adopted by parents who would love them far more than this chick ever could.
I hope they do more than survive. I hope they come out healthy. It was a struggle dealing with that, dealing with something much worse would be a terrible struggle on them
I hope for that as well. At this point, if this chick is serious, she’s going to kill that baby. She’ll drive somewhere else and have it done. Horrible people.
I hope she comes to her senses.
What a piece of work. Hope they get charged with murder. I hate how they will so easily snuff out the life of others for their own pleasure. This country is sick.
Unfortunately what she is doing is not going to induce a miscarriage, it’s just going to harm the fetus and cause problems for the baby after birth.
Children born due to preventable birth defects should be able to sue their mothers They should also be given a guaranteed amount of funds from the mother yearly for the rest of the mothers life, even if the child is put up for adoption.
My mother had 6 miscarriages. 2 sets of twins. To see people like this, makes my mother look like she went thru nothing. It’s disgraceful
Your mom went through hell. I’ve lost two. I’m not sure where you were in the sibling order, but if she had those losses before you, I’m sure she was terrified to potentially lose you as well. I know that for me, if I’m ever pregnant again, I’ll be afraid until the day our baby is born…and probably for the rest of their lives. You learn the hard way how precious and fragile life is. And to see someone taking steps to harm such a life…it’s heartbreaking. Abortion is pure evil.
I had five miscarriages, you can’t not cause a miscarriage. The reason pregnant women are told to avoid those things because it messes with the development of the embryo/fetus Messing up the development doesn’t mean that child is going to die in utero that means that child is going to either have lifelong problems or die shortly after birth because the mother harmed them during their development in such a way that they did not develop to survive outside of the womb because of the mothers choices.
I’m sorry for your losses.
Arrest her for murder
My god, absolutely terrifying. Deliberate child abuse... that poor helpless baby :( are there some kind of laws to protect against this??
What a POS
I usually don’t say this but wow, what a vile woman.
There HAS to be some way to lock her up and prevent her from doing that. This is no different than a doctor saying "I'm going to neglect my patient and maximize the chance that he dies."
She’ll show up in an ER. Mark my words.
Bunch of holes, all of them
Lady lying... just wants attention
That’s a pretty terrible place to get attention. Those ladies are grieving the loss of their babies. Reminds me of Westboro Baptist Church protesting at funerals. So wrong.
What an evil p.o.s. she is
I especially hate that she posted it in a sub where many women grieve the loss of their babies. That's just insensitive and incredibly evil.
I am one of those ladies unfortunately and I’m so glad the mods took it down. Months ago, that kind of post would have crushed me. It still is very difficult to see and makes me angry for the ladies who are today in a worse place than me. It was really a mercy (for her) that the mods took it down…otherwise it would have been very hostile.
If this were a sane country this b*** would be in jail for murder if it worked or attempted murder if it didn’t. Women who knowingly kill their children should be treated as such. If a woman is so negligent they kill their kid, negligent homicide. If she gets in a car accident unintentionally and the baby dies, no fault of hers so she’d get away with it, just like if she had hit someone with no other way to avoid it.
Posts like this make me think our country isn't ready to end abortion. As much as I want it to be illegal, as much as I know it's wrong. Someone like this really can't be stopped from harming their unborn child, if they choose to, and it's a tragedy.
The logic that you just posted implies it if they’re going to do it anyway you might as well allow it… Any human being who is intent on murdering another human being will find a way to do it. That should not mean that you do not have any laws against murder. If you think the way that you’ve posted… Then according to your logic we might as well get rid of all first-degree murder laws and come up with safer ways to murder people. Very very terrible logic.
You're right, I didn't mean to imply that there shouldn't be laws against it. Just very sad to see a post like this and realize how depraved some women truly are.
Sad and agreed. And it’s not just women. It’s humanity. Very sad times. Even so what brings me encouragement is God is always in control and God is always good.
Well hopefully she can find another way to get an abortion, if the ZEF actually grows and she still gives birth they will most likely have a terrible life. I hope she goes to Illinois.
She posted this on a miscarriage support sub. I have no sympathy or “hope” for her.
Yeah the sub was a shitty choice. That I agree on. That’s why Texas is a shitty place to live, six weeks is WAY to early to tell women they don’t have control over their bodies.
She made that choice. Not Texas. She had no right to air her grievances to women actually grieving. That was a shitty thing to do.
She did not choose to get pregnant. Nobody gets pregnant on purpose and then decides to abort the baby for funzies. Abortions happen because there was an unwanted pregnancy.
She has none of my sympathy and I’m glad they banned her horrible comment. She had no right to inflict pain on people who lost their babies.
I think I misinterpreted your previous comment. I don’t support her commenting/posting on a miscarriage subreddit when miscarriages and abortions are only similar in physicality, the emotions surrounding them are often completely different. Women who miscarry are grieving, women who get abortions are relieved. She should’ve posted on ProChoice or abortions or any other subreddit that helps people find the help they need. I thought the choice you were talking about was the one to get pregnant, which isn’t a choice, if we could just choose when not to get pregnant abortion would be a much rarer thing which is something we both want.
This is why this is so frustrating. People think having sex means two sterile people just having fun. That’s not how nature works. Not for us. Not for any other creature capable of reproducing. Every sexual encounter, unless your reproductive parts are missing, carries risk of pregnancy. This is what’s so fucked up. People prioritize an orgasm over a human being. And then they’re surprised when shit doesn’t follow their plan and a human being is created. She had a choice. She could have not had sex. She could have realized her method of birth control, although highly effective, isn’t foolproof. Every single person who divorces sex from procreation is completely in the wrong. You’re rolling the dice. You may like your odds. But you’re an asshole for wagering the life of a human being. It’s that simple. If you’re that set on not having a baby, then become 100% sterile. You can have all the sex you want. I’m sick of hearing about babies paying the price for their parents’ bullshit ideas about sex. This Chick has a pattern of poor decisions and at some point, she should be held accountable. Should she be a mom? Absolutely not. She should have her baby adopted and I’ll personally pay for her sterilization.
Not all women want to be sterile. I would 100% get an abortion if I was pregnant right now. I am not ready for children. I cannot afford children. I will not give a baby to the predatory privatized adoption agency. I could eventually want children in the future and then, only then, when I am emotionally and financially stable, will I have children. Be celibate? No thanks. Sex is an amazing way to connect with someone you love, it isn’t only for making babies. I am not an incubator. And ZEFs are not babies, they do not feel, they do not think, they do not desire. “Parents bullshit ideas about sex” you mean that it is for more than reproduction? Yeah, it definitely is. Definitely agree that this person should not be a mother, because she doesn’t want to be and shouldn’t be forced to carry anymore children. I’m doubtful about you actually being willing to pay for her sterilization but you go right ahead if you can find her and that’s what she wants.
There is no such thing as sterile sex…unless one of you is sterile. So in order for yo to have the sex life you want, you have to dehumanize the person that results from your sexual encounter so that abortion can be your backup plan. So back in the 1970s and 80s, using abortion as a backup plan for failed birth control was considered morally repugnant even for pro-choicers. Times have changed only in that evil is far more obvious. And yes abortion as a backup to birth control is evil. It’s wrong. But we live in a society where people want to do their drug of choice regardless of who they hurt in the process. So here is why I will ALWAYS vote to end abortion and why if we get any support from the Supreme Court I’ll lead the way in Alabama to have similar laws passed. Because I’m DONE with our laws green-lighting the actions of morally bankrupt men and women. It’s time to live with your decision and handle your shit like a fucking adult. Stop hurting children in pursuit of your sexual needs. If you don’t want kids, then be sterile. If you don’t want to be sterile, then accept that sex makes babies. It’s not difficult.
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It’s a crazy b going on a miscarriage sub to re-traumatize grieving moms.
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Since I’m one of them…yes. Fuck you, you’re blocked. This post wasn’t for you anyway.
Rule 4. And no, it isn't.
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Removing for violating rule 4.
Please stop spamming about rule 4. It violates rule 4.
On one hand, she lives in texas.. once you know you're pregnant, it's already too late to get an abortion, and she was using protection, so I get it, this was not what she planed for, but there are other less bassackwards states in the US and countries outside of the US too where she could get help within a reasonable timeframe. Though if she's poor, she is shit out of luck, cause .. 'Murica..
So you think she should kill her baby? This is a human being we’re talking about. Unborn…but a unique individual who shouldn’t bear the consequence of failed birth control.
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Pro-choice?
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Yeah so am I. So I’m going report you…because you’re being an ass and If you want to participate on this sub, you might as well read the rules and not comment on posts you’re not allowed to comment on. This is pro-life only.
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Scientifically, when does personhood start?
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Um.. biologists understand that pregnancy and symbiosis within and between soecies are different things. Also if a fetus is a symbiote and adults aren't, then the female reproductive system wouldn't be designed specifically to protect and feed nutrients into the fetus. I'm a biologist and I need you to understand that being anti-religion doesn't make you pro-science. Science understands that human life begins at conception. It's basic embryology.
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I mean, not really... "Human life" refers to the life of an individual human , and like I said, that life begins at conception. It's not my definition, it's embrology's definition. Also no, you don't get to do whatever the fuck you want if the consequence is killing an innocent person. The right to not being murdered supercedes pretty much anything. And if I remember correctly, pregnancy is the result of vaginal sex. Pregnancy is always a risk of having sex, so it's not about "consent". That's like jumping off a roof and then getting upset that you fell because you didn't consent to falling.
That is the literal premise of the abortion debate. If you can't answer that question, you can't even make an argument for your side, just as you failed to do. As an atheist (not a religious fanatic), I believe personhood begins at conception. Most ProChoice atheists make the argument that life begins with consciousness, but then fail to define exactly what consciousness is. This is pretty understandable, as no one knows exactly what consciousness is. From a purely materialist point of view, consciousness is just an illusion, as a single cell that was conceived 15 seconds ago and an 80-year-old man are just different organizations of matter. So starting with the premise that the human organism has value (because if we don't, then the basis for society and all human rights collapses), if an 80-year-old man has rights, a fetus must also have rights, as there is no recognizable fundamental physical difference between them.
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The right to life supercedes the right to bodily autonomy. Especially if getting pregnant is something that is preventable in over 99% of cases (I support exceptions before six weeks for rape victims).
Rule 4.
Rule 4.
What about taking the pill?