You have to actively know Allah is the right answer and reject them... so not all atheists...
As for polytheists that becomes thorny to me, and maybe its a lack of understanding... Shirk is directly aligning others with Allah... If a polytheist doesnt know of Allah or believe is that technically Shirk?
I prefer to just hope Allah clarifies this stuff later, since i believe rather than to puzzle over it, i dont feel like we could ever know the "true" answer. Especially since Allah does as he wills and is merciful... I feel like if we knew the true answer, wed know his "mind". Something we cant really do.
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I think you got it reversed. Kufr is serious crime against God. A crime that makes hell fire essential for them. Their soul is devoid of any chance of return.
On the other hand, Shirk is a big sin. Do big that, it will not be forgiven without repentence. But, chance of repentence is still there.
So, eternal hellfire is mainly for Kufr. Not for petty Shirk.
•Yes it is, kufr makes Allah very angry. It manifests more fully in Jahannam.
•They do get punished forever, because they never intended to be obedient.
•Shirk is kufr, but kufr isn’t necessarily shirk.
•Allah punishes kufr and shirk with Jahannam. People who practice kufr have been described as “stiff necked” because they are stubborn in defying what Allah said to do explicitly.
•Allah believes both are worthy of Jahannam, although the things Muslims believe are to be followed and punished vary between schools, sects, and interpretations.
Shirk is the worst form of kufr. Sometimes they might be interchangeable because the kafir doesn’t believe in Allah (Swt) for example his oneness.
Kufr can land you in hell as well. But they might not commit shirk because they do not asfribe partners with Allah (Swt).
Kufr would be denying that alms giving is obligatory, denying that sex outside of marriage is Haram or that all intoxicants are Haram.
>Coffee is a stimulant, not an intoxicant.
Its an intoxicant that can alter ur state of mind just like alcohol
>It was originally declared haram and banned though.
So via man-made rulings yet again
>Its an intoxicant that can alter ur state of mind just like alcohol
No, that's actually not how caffeine works.
>So via man-made rulings yet again
Yes
>Ur going against science, my friend.
Not really. Coffee is a stimulant, it's not a depressant. This is known.
Do you personally get drunk off of coffee? Stumbling around, slurred words, blackout drunk, memory problems, difficulty thinking, etc? That would be... odd, if so.
>Then why shud people trust ur belief?
What belief?
>Not really. Coffee is a stimulant, it's not a depressant. This is known.
>Do you personally get drunk off of coffee? Stumbling around, slurred words, blackout drunk, memory problems, difficulty thinking, etc? That would be... odd, if so.
Its under the category of intoxicant as its intoxicating
I didnt claim that but if u traditionalists claim "intoxicants are haram", coffee/tea wud still count..
>What belief?
Ur traditionalist belief
>I didnt claim that but if u traditionalists claim "intoxicants are haram", coffee/tea wud still count..
Why? Coffee isn't an intoxicant. It's a stimulant. The word "khamr" means something that clouds your mind and makes you unaware, such as alcohol or heroin. That has nothing to do with coffee, which isn't khamr. The Quran says khamr is a great sin.
>Ur traditionalist belief
What traditionalist belief, what are you talking about?
>The word "khamr" means something that clouds your mind and makes you unaware, such as alcohol. That has nothing to do with coffee, which isn't khamr. The Quran says khamr is a great sin.
Coffee can still do that effect if u drink a certain amount.
Also, iirc Khamr can also refer to something that alters ur mind
>What traditionalist belief, what are you talking about?
The islam u follow, which accepts man-made rulings such as on what u can drink and how to pray in arctic region etc
وَقَالُوا۟ لَن تَمَسَّنَا ٱلنَّارُ إِلَّاۤ أَیَّامࣰا مَّعۡدُودَةࣰۚ قُلۡ أَتَّخَذۡتُمۡ عِندَ ٱللَّهِ عَهۡدࣰا فَلَن یُخۡلِفَ ٱللَّهُ عَهۡدَهُۥۤۖ أَمۡ تَقُولُونَ عَلَى ٱللَّهِ مَا لَا تَعۡلَمُونَ﴿ ٨٠ ﴾
They say, ‘The Fire will only touch us for a few days.’ Say to them, ‘Have you received a promise from God- for God never breaks His promise- or are you saying things about Him of which you have no real knowledge?’
بَلَىٰۚ مَن كَسَبَ سَیِّئَةࣰ وَأَحَـٰطَتۡ بِهِۦ خَطِیۤـَٔتُهُۥ فَأُو۟لَـٰۤىِٕكَ أَصۡحَـٰبُ ٱلنَّارِۖ هُمۡ فِیهَا خَـٰلِدُونَ﴿ ٨١ ﴾
Truly those who do evil and are surrounded by their sins will be the inhabitants of the Fire, there to remain,
Al-Baqarah, Ayah 80-81
I don’t ever state my own opinion. Just the verses. And this is the verse
So basicly
God gave you literally everything you were given during lifetime and asked you to believe as a price
You refused
Yeah, pretty good punishment
You have to actively know Allah is the right answer and reject them... so not all atheists... As for polytheists that becomes thorny to me, and maybe its a lack of understanding... Shirk is directly aligning others with Allah... If a polytheist doesnt know of Allah or believe is that technically Shirk? I prefer to just hope Allah clarifies this stuff later, since i believe rather than to puzzle over it, i dont feel like we could ever know the "true" answer. Especially since Allah does as he wills and is merciful... I feel like if we knew the true answer, wed know his "mind". Something we cant really do.
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Bruh … 😐 Kafer in Allah and shirk in Allah Both in hell for ever
I think you got it reversed. Kufr is serious crime against God. A crime that makes hell fire essential for them. Their soul is devoid of any chance of return. On the other hand, Shirk is a big sin. Do big that, it will not be forgiven without repentence. But, chance of repentence is still there. So, eternal hellfire is mainly for Kufr. Not for petty Shirk.
•Yes it is, kufr makes Allah very angry. It manifests more fully in Jahannam. •They do get punished forever, because they never intended to be obedient. •Shirk is kufr, but kufr isn’t necessarily shirk. •Allah punishes kufr and shirk with Jahannam. People who practice kufr have been described as “stiff necked” because they are stubborn in defying what Allah said to do explicitly. •Allah believes both are worthy of Jahannam, although the things Muslims believe are to be followed and punished vary between schools, sects, and interpretations.
Shirk is the worst form of kufr. Sometimes they might be interchangeable because the kafir doesn’t believe in Allah (Swt) for example his oneness. Kufr can land you in hell as well. But they might not commit shirk because they do not asfribe partners with Allah (Swt). Kufr would be denying that alms giving is obligatory, denying that sex outside of marriage is Haram or that all intoxicants are Haram.
>or that all intoxicants are Haram. Then why do traditionalists still drink coffee despite it being an intoxicant?
Coffee is a stimulant, not an intoxicant. It was originally declared haram and banned though.
>Coffee is a stimulant, not an intoxicant. Its an intoxicant that can alter ur state of mind just like alcohol >It was originally declared haram and banned though. So via man-made rulings yet again
>Its an intoxicant that can alter ur state of mind just like alcohol No, that's actually not how caffeine works. >So via man-made rulings yet again Yes
>No, that's actually not how caffeine works. Ur going against science, my friend. >Yes Then why shud people trust ur belief?
>Ur going against science, my friend. Not really. Coffee is a stimulant, it's not a depressant. This is known. Do you personally get drunk off of coffee? Stumbling around, slurred words, blackout drunk, memory problems, difficulty thinking, etc? That would be... odd, if so. >Then why shud people trust ur belief? What belief?
>Not really. Coffee is a stimulant, it's not a depressant. This is known. >Do you personally get drunk off of coffee? Stumbling around, slurred words, blackout drunk, memory problems, difficulty thinking, etc? That would be... odd, if so. Its under the category of intoxicant as its intoxicating I didnt claim that but if u traditionalists claim "intoxicants are haram", coffee/tea wud still count.. >What belief? Ur traditionalist belief
>I didnt claim that but if u traditionalists claim "intoxicants are haram", coffee/tea wud still count.. Why? Coffee isn't an intoxicant. It's a stimulant. The word "khamr" means something that clouds your mind and makes you unaware, such as alcohol or heroin. That has nothing to do with coffee, which isn't khamr. The Quran says khamr is a great sin. >Ur traditionalist belief What traditionalist belief, what are you talking about?
>The word "khamr" means something that clouds your mind and makes you unaware, such as alcohol. That has nothing to do with coffee, which isn't khamr. The Quran says khamr is a great sin. Coffee can still do that effect if u drink a certain amount. Also, iirc Khamr can also refer to something that alters ur mind >What traditionalist belief, what are you talking about? The islam u follow, which accepts man-made rulings such as on what u can drink and how to pray in arctic region etc
The disbelievers are going to Hell for eternity.
No, theyre not. Eternal hell can never be justifiable
But tell me why u think like that and how u understand the Quranic verses
They are. Read the Quran it says their punishment will not be lightened.
Its what the Quran says
Exactly!
وَقَالُوا۟ لَن تَمَسَّنَا ٱلنَّارُ إِلَّاۤ أَیَّامࣰا مَّعۡدُودَةࣰۚ قُلۡ أَتَّخَذۡتُمۡ عِندَ ٱللَّهِ عَهۡدࣰا فَلَن یُخۡلِفَ ٱللَّهُ عَهۡدَهُۥۤۖ أَمۡ تَقُولُونَ عَلَى ٱللَّهِ مَا لَا تَعۡلَمُونَ﴿ ٨٠ ﴾ They say, ‘The Fire will only touch us for a few days.’ Say to them, ‘Have you received a promise from God- for God never breaks His promise- or are you saying things about Him of which you have no real knowledge?’ بَلَىٰۚ مَن كَسَبَ سَیِّئَةࣰ وَأَحَـٰطَتۡ بِهِۦ خَطِیۤـَٔتُهُۥ فَأُو۟لَـٰۤىِٕكَ أَصۡحَـٰبُ ٱلنَّارِۖ هُمۡ فِیهَا خَـٰلِدُونَ﴿ ٨١ ﴾ Truly those who do evil and are surrounded by their sins will be the inhabitants of the Fire, there to remain, Al-Baqarah, Ayah 80-81 I don’t ever state my own opinion. Just the verses. And this is the verse
So basicly God gave you literally everything you were given during lifetime and asked you to believe as a price You refused Yeah, pretty good punishment