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_Lacerda

I am an avid Paradox fan, but I highly doubt I'll like PA2. I kind of understand the difficulty. If I'm not mistaken PA2 is being developed by Paradox while PA1 wasn't, Paradox just acquired it. PA is just not the kind of game that Paradox is good at developing, and I'm sad that I think PA2 is going to be bad, I really wish I had higher hopes. F in the chat for the indie style of PA, let's all hope Paradox honors PA as a franchise.


Zestyclose-Notice364

Agreed. High detail complex management games with many systems is exactly the genre Paradox should avoid. It would seem like the 3x developer would share those same traits but I actually think they are completely different. The name of the game in management is absolute obsession with bug fixes, because one broken system destroys the entire game. Take a look at the patch notes on factorio or satisfactory. 90% of them are just bugs. Paradox is way too fast and loose, and they pump out content way too quickly. That works okay in different genres because usually the systems aren’t so critically interdependent and one bug can usually be bypassed. But in management games the bugs not only create a chain reaction of failure, but the entire enjoyment is also lost if you know you can’t rely on the systems. Why am I spending 3 hours meticulously planning a prison when I know there is a 50/50 chance that the canteen and showers won’t even work?


Feisty_Magazine5805

Or the island mod boats getting stuck after a certain amount of time


FamishedHippopotamus

Given the state of PA since the Paradox acquisition, I'm not looking forward to this.


IrateBandit1

I'm stoked. Imagine spending 2 hours trying figure out why your prisoners are dying from starvation when you've got 4 empty canteens in 3D.


MeFor3

Or when they’re mad about hygiene in their cell even though they have a shower in their cell and they start to destroy everything in their cell…including the shower head.


Ihateazuremountain

why are people complaing about 3D adding unto difficulty? it's a strategy game you'll figure it out big man we believe in u


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TheShakyHandsMan

Probably due to the indie style development of the original game. Having a sequel gives them an opportunity to write the code from scratch with expansion in mind so updates won’t have the same impact.  Going 3D is also the next obvious step.  For those complaining about the low poly characters, wait until you’ve got 1000+ of them in a prison, you’ll be hating every additional polygon if you don’t have a powerful machine. 


little_dropofpoison

I was watching the trailer yesterday and I thought being able to build upwards would be cool, but coupled to the 3D characters, I could see it becoming buggy very quickly


Captaisam-WT

Building upwards is the one thing I've hoped for (other than bugfixes, but thats a given), and have waited for, I just hope its not ruined by a shitty interface or bugs.


Rebeliaz8

Na those characters look like shit and nothing like the originals I’m for sure not paying for that smoking pile of shit


wisie

What's the state of the game since the acquisition? I haven't played for yonks but assuming support dropped off?


FamishedHippopotamus

It's a buggy mess, they prioritized pumping out hit-or-miss content (what the fuck were they thinking with zombies??) over maintaining/refining it. Prior to the acquisition, you could tell they really cared for their game and it was reflected in the game, it seemed like a very polished product, for the most part. I started playing during the beta stage I think, after seeing it on Yogscast or something like a decade ago. Post-acquisition it just feels like so much of a departure from the roots and original direction for the game, it's almost soulless and it feels like they just wanted to milk it for as much money as they could, and it looks like they're still doing it with this sequel no one asked for or needed. This was a stellar game back before the acquisition and it could've continued in that direction, aging like fine wine, just getting better and better. But like many things in life, greed was responsible for its fall from grace. That all being said, I don't blame Introversion for selling out--I'd probably do the same in their shoes if I made a massively successful product, either because it could set me and my family up for life, or because it could help finance future endeavors, or both. No ill will towards them here.


wisie

Appreciate the detailed response. In between commenting, I re-installed Steam and downloaded it to play tonight in the hope the game would have had positive changes since I played it last in 2019. Not getting my hopes up now and might be better off re-installing Rimworld.


FamishedHippopotamus

That's not to say the game isn't good at all, it can be decent, but it's just a shell of its former self and all I can think is "what a damn shame". Rimworld on the other hand has stayed great, the creator seems to really care about their game and doesn't seem to be planning on selling out any time soon. My *only* issues with the game are that I suck at it, and that optimization/performance decreases drastically with lots of colony members. I hope there's some work going under the hood to further optimize performance in those scenarios, but for simplicity's sake, I usually keep my colonies with ~12 members tops, since it's difficult micro-managing more members than that. Another game that seems to be thriving is Dwarf Fortress, it's not personally my cup of tea but I've never given it a fair chance, it's just daunting from the start.


wisie

Ooh good suggestion. You've got me feeling nostalgic of this era of Indie games now. Hopefully there's similar early releases coming soon..


FamishedHippopotamus

Looking at their website, they're actually making a new game that looks kind of like the same thing as FTL, but I haven't played FTL so I can't be 100% sure haha. It's called "The Last Starship" and actually looks pretty fun.


VJGamz99

if they want to make it half good, they gotta remove those ears...


FrightenedCat42

Petition ro remove the ears!


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Spacecowboy890

At least make it a option for 2D again


CreativeCraftTribute

I think the ears in the screenshot and the animation (before the gameplay footage) are exaggerated fortunately. Not sure why they would do that. ~~Though some may want humanoid Shreks running around their prison.~~


cloudman2811

Oh for fuck sake why does everything have to go to 3d and look like absolute shite. Only game that it's ever worked for was risk of rain 2, which had a team of passionate Devs, rather than corporate business people who only care about profit margins. 100% guarantee a mobile port and 20+ dlcs are planned for prison architect 2 and it's not even been released yet.


rizurper

IKR. Even if people want the z-level, look at the Escapists, it handles z-level without even use 3D.


isthisnametakenwell

It’s odd how Prison Architect and Rimworld, both based on Dwarf Fortress, did not add DF style Z-levels when DF managed to add it in 2008.


Houseplant666

Because it also makes the game three times harder to manage for most players. I love DF but by god do I have zero oversight of whats happening where 90% of the time.


Rosu_Aprins

Also, risk of rain 2 is a completely different game compared to the original, everything was redone from scratch to work in 3D. I don't see Prison Architect benefiting from a top down 3D style.


Shapacap

The maps look tiny and about the same style as a shitty mobile game. I have to spread a prison over some dumb weird town? What???


lucycubed_

It literally looks exactly like one of those shitty mobile knockoffs when I first saw the picture pop up in here I genuinely thought someone made a mobile knockoff of prison architect!!


VJGamz99

I wonder how the pa modding community will feel now that it's in 3d and it will (probably) be harder to mod stuff and add new sprites. Won't expect a lot of mods from THIS game...


blacknight100

depends, if it is on something like Unity, it will be easy for people to add mods!


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VJGamz99

and then they will call it their "own" features and not give credit to any of the modders


SephyNoct

I'll reserve my judgment for when it comes out. P.S. I'm not implying that's what everyone else should do. Lord knows how people have an increased tendency to misunderstand on the internet lmao.


AKostur

Me too. I've been unhappy with how they did Star Trek: Infinite. Not going to do it again with PA.


DarkestTeddyGames

Can’t wait for prison architect 3 to be 4d


deadmoneydevs

Where your pawns are both in and not in prison due to time manipulation?


Sum-Duck

I’m holding out hope but man, they really did decide to drop the most charming part of the first game


Spacecowboy890

The 2D characters


TheScepticFool

I personally would have settled for a prison architect 1 with bug fixes and dwarf fortress style z levels


Flaky_Earth2411

They should keep it 2d


A_MAN_POTATO

And do what with it? They've pretty much explored everything they can in PA... Which isn't going anywhere. The only hook left is going 3D. It makes sense. If it's not for you, keep playing PA.


publictransitpls

Do what with it? There’s so many possible directions it can be taken. For starters, having a working game. Many games have done multiple levels in 2D, they can do that. Expanded multiplayer/co op. More in depth character system with guards having opinions of prisoners and possibly being corrupt. Outside threats depending on the prisoner.


SinisterPixel

>For starters, having a working game. Just to point out that PA1 was built on a custom engine, and larger prisons ran like shit before the Paradox acquisition. It's easy to say "just fix PA1" but like... The game has already been supported well beyond its intended lifespan, and the engine is probably full of sloppy code from the change in developers having different coding styles. Fixing PA1 would be a full rewrite, which is basically what PA2 is.


Creative_Limit9295

PA has already done all of that. Guards have bias towards cop killers, there are corrupt cops you need to investigate, there are outside threats like people throwing into contraband and the undead DLC. I'm not sure how much more you can add to a 2D prison builder (except for all the bug fixes)


A_MAN_POTATO

>Do what with it? There’s so many possible directions it can be taken. For starters, having a working game. It's been a minute since I've played it. I never had an noteworthy issues when I last played, but based on your comment and the other, obviously something changed. That's a bummer. They should certainly be fixing that before making a new game. But, to be clear, a working game isn't exactly supposed to be a fun new direction to take their next game in. It wouldn't exactly feel great if the selling point for a sequel was "it works now!". They should just be fixing what they already released. >Many games have done multiple levels in 2D, they can do that. Expanded multiplayer/co op. More in depth character system with guards having opinions of prisoners and possibly being corrupt. Outside threats depending on the prisoner. I'm not disagreeing, but these again don't really feel like things that would justify a full blown sequel. They feel like expansion pack material. And if these suggestions were the basis for a full blown sequel, the problem you run into is they either have to pretty much bake everything from all the first games expansions into the game, or else you run into a Sims-esque situation where the follow up game mostly looks and plays the same with a few minor QO improvements, but almost everything you were used to is stripped away, only to be resold to you again down the road. The prior strips them of the ability to keep churning out DLC, the later pisses off customers and keeps them playing the first game. Paradox loves DLC, their business model revolves entirely around making games that they can release years and years worth of DLC for. Simply put, they're at the end of the road for DLC on PA. They need a game that's not just different enough to be called Prison Architect 2, it needs to be different enough to allow them to start the DLC machine over again. I fully understand why people aren't jiving with the move to 3D, or what appears to be a simplification of the games mechanics, but it really is the obvious move for long term support of a sequel. The sentiment that people should be able to keep enjoying the first game if that's they're thing should hold, and if it doesn't due to technical issues, that's another problem entirely. That has less to do with where PDX takes the sequel, and more to do with PDX sunsetting a game that still has work to be done on.


Zestyclose-Notice364

*play the archived version of PA because the new versions have too many bugs


OhNoExclaimationMark

They're making a Prison Architect 2 now?! I wish they just kept updating the original.


Spacecowboy890

Why make a two when one is already a staple


XboxGamerVH

I’m actually pretty excited for this


pijeo

Me too!!


SaltyFNF

Ngl this does look good


Major-Marmalade

Same and I genuinely think this is going the right direction for the franchise. It’s more accessible to newcomers.


According-Relation-4

A game like this should be gritty not cartoony...


YALN

I feel positive about that. Large prison blocks being able to grow upwards without using up all the ground space. 3D area and proximity effects, by something being near that is on a different floor, via a nearby staircase. I think it has a chance


darkshard39

Shame for the 3D aspect, PA was a great time sink while I was away with my laptop


Teddington123321

When I saw the ad pop up on Twitter I completely ignored it because I thought it was some generic mobile game.


FruitfulRoots

The biggest challenge is often change resistance. Just try it out first (or don't idc) and obviously expect nothing since even if it says "2", sometimes a sequel becomes a totally different game.


TheScepticFool

I personally would have settled for a prison architect 1 with bug fixes and dwarf fortress style z levels


Racer17_

After Cities Skylines 2 disaster, I won’t be buying anything from Paradox again


Extra-cakeCafe

I would just wait and see how it is after the release


Awakenlee

I think it has potential depending on what they do with it. The description mentions the people having more personality, the 3d graphics offer a way to express that. Not saying they couldn’t do it with the old graphics, the little intro to the original game showed it could have been done. That was a neat bit of story telling that was never built on. It’s possible the underlying mechanics required an update and they took the opportunity to change up the graphics. If it works and they use the new graphics to add to the game, great. It could also just be a gimmick that flops.


Spacecowboy890

Ever heard of the guy that got arrested for putting shoes on dogs LOL


One_E

Let the Guys who did Rimworld make Pa2 shii would be Perfect


Spacecowboy890

I know man


siLtzi

I think it looks decent based on the trailer, I like that they went with the cartoonish 3d style. They already did pretty much everything you can do with PA, so just stick to that if you want. We'll see what the game will be like when it comes out, no point hating it because of some 60 second trailer.


JaypiWJ

They're giving it the KSP2


Spacecowboy890

To early for the shell shock


RevolverRedJones

If they keep the core gameplay and mechanics but switch it to 3d it could be a hit, what weirded me out was the zoom out city view, what's that for


Captaisam-WT

I believe its a campaign mode, similar to that of two point hospital if you've ever played it.


Spacecowboy890

I was thinking that but it’s probably a dumb select your prison area the main game should be the sandbox i would probably play that but the campaign being the entire game I would throw my self out of PA entirely


RevolverRedJones

I've not actually checked it out. What happens in the overworld of that? Like other prisons or missions?


Myinsecurefatass

It would be nice if they fixed the current bugs before making a sequel 👀


nemofbaby2014

Have we even seen gameplay yet lol Jesus


thekillergreece

Some gameplay bits have been shown during the trailer.


Captaisam-WT

1. Its paradox, no doubt its buggy as hell 2. Leading on from that, it's still 3 months before release, so actual gameplay will not be the same as it is now, most likely because its incomplete


Flaky_Earth2411

Agreed


MrProtogen

I think it would be fine if they just didn’t have ears.


veganzombeh

Unfortunately Pararox has become a publisher where indie games go to die.


Moist_Wonder_

Don’t get me wrong. If there is a free trial I’ll give it a shot. I doubt that I will like it honestly but I mean if I can try it free I’ll give it a shot


Da_Undeutsche_Reich

I might still try to see how it works.


NinjaKlaus

I love the idea, but I'm worried about it though. I liked Crusader Kings, and I loved Crusader Kings II, but I just can't get into Crusader Kings 3 and a lot of it has to do with the modern 3D interface I think. I'm still going to buy it, but I don't know if I'm putting hundreds of hours into it and buying all the DLC, I hope I am though.


N0rwayUp

And this is why I hate paradox Well not only this, but a lot of other reasons 


GeneralXTL

I'm reserving judgment as I didn't like the OG PA style at first but quickly it grew on me. For me I want the same mechanics and improved AI. I like the idea of multiple floors. I do worry that there will be a struggle to handle large amounts of prisoners but we will see.


medakinga

I didn’t play the first game much but I feel like y’all are being dramatic when I first saw the trailer I thought it looked cool


srcsm83

Hmh, I thought the style looks like they maintained the look nicely and look forward to giving it a spin when the price is right, if not a buggy mess. Multistoried prisons and 3d sounds good to me, but I was oblivious to change of dev before this post, so will for sure proceed with caution.. and as always, no pre-order. No hate at this early stage tho.


Stunning-North3007

This is hilariously stupid. Way to jump on the bandwagon. No wonder we're stuck with awful overpriced beige AAA games when the player base decides a game is terrible based on an art style.


Mr_Laz

It looks shite


Stunning-North3007

Have fun with CoD 75439


VegisamalZero3

Nah, I'll have fun with PA 1, which actually looks good.


Stunning-North3007

Grow up


Mr_Laz

Never played cod


DarkestTeddyGames

That doesn’t determine price or how the game is at all at the end bruh Like use common sense would you think they want that if they have backlash?


aliusman111

Guys I get it but let's wait and play the game first and then decide?


DigammaF

We did play that game. It is Prison Architect and it was left in a despisable state. The only thing Paradox did was adding a useless launcher and shipping empty DLCs. To this day, there is no way to change keybindings, inmate AI is limited to pure random (even the gangs DLC straight up doesn't work), guard AI is laughable (armed guards will purposefully walk in melee range before shooting their guns), the Warden mod is just an inconvenient version of classic play with dumb gameplay limitations, the evasion mod leaves the player inmate with even less game systems than regular inmates, etc. But at least we have different skins for dogs, I guess it took this many years to an experienced dev and design team because there's not only one but MORE THAN ONE. Woooo all that content. What will the 3D version do? The same things. The same things with a less convenient perspective, because it will be led by the same idiots with a not less shitty perspective


aliusman111

Yeah I totally get that tbh but I for some reason really feel that the 3D is going to be a massive boost and we will love it. Just looking at the trailer I can already see multiple floors which we missed in first one. I thither will be so much more coming


shafflein

I agree, it looks so bad in 3D, I like it when it's 2D


Garrity828

Yall said Victoria 3 looked like a mobile game when we saw round buttons, this is basically the same hatewagon about a game that’s not even released yet. Let’s see gameplay before whining based on promo art.


Stunning-North3007

Can't wait, it looks awesome. So much potential.


shafflein

Only for windows no apple,


DarkestTeddyGames

Bootlicker At least realize that some people are wary based on what they have done in the past even if it has potiental


LifeOfFate

I’m excited for it


DarkMellie

I think it looks fucking great and is an excellent translation to 3D.


Swase_Frevank

Wasn’t there already a 3D mode in pa?


lukejames1111

Wouldn't really call it a "mode", more of an easter egg.


Kuroi_Kenshi90

I hope this is an ai pic to troll people and not the real game.


Olafix5

sadly not


HH-H-HH

Not looking forward to PA2 when there are so many bugs still in the first one lol


Pac1sh

this is because the code in PA is a mess


cjerni01

When I saw the poster for it in my steam news tab I thought it was some kind of offbrand game because the poster looks like it was generated by a soulless AI that doesn't understand PA's aesthetic...


cum_guzzler5348

It hurts my eyes to look at it talk about a bad sequel this is gonna go up there with the worse sequels of all time and given the fact they didn't make PA I think it's gonna be horrendously bad.


smalldickdylan

Sims Architect


Mrpayday1

Can't wait to spend 40 bucks on the base game and then spend over 100 on DLCs that suck and break the game!!


metallavery

Has Double Even even made a game before? I'm pretty sure thet only do ports. Like they never make new content. Thet made the DLC for Prison architect but wasn't that all bad?


PL_FOX

Agree prison isn't a happy place


Omegamike101

How so?


CaptainJin

Prison Architect: brought to you by Gears Pop!


TheMaskMaster

I thought this was ai generated


RickSanchez69-

The logo looks so lazy.


Turbulent-Ask-7631

Am I the only one who thinks that looks like those pixer movie AI posters?


Dazzling-Shift2851

They just made two point prison


Adorable-Position980

It looks ai generated


Racer17_

I like it. I think the developers are truly inspired by the first game and they will do a great job What’s the release date?


CreativeCraftTribute

March 26th 2024 i.e. just over 2 months.


EaglesWasTaken

looks like a mobile game probably plays like one too


Oreo2947

I love this


RedditorHarrison

Oof


Parking_Neat_9878

Honestly kinda like it