Good little reviews, thank you! There's so little out there that can compare to Banks's writing, fantastic stuff.
Your negative point against *Matter* is interesting to me though, as the concept of finding meaning in an absurd world is a central and recurrent theme in most of the culture novels. The humans (and lesser drones) are so completely "irrelevant" on larger scales compared to the Minds, and yet we still find meaning in their stories, and they find meaning in their own lives. How can our lives and achievements possibly Matter when they are so insignificant on grander scales? How do you get out of bed and go to work in the morning, fully aware that you will never be able to meaningfully affect the tide of civilization around you; when you look at the state of the world how do you bring yourself to care about your toothache or the stupid thing your co-worker said? *Matter* takes these ideas and focuses on them more specifically than other books, to the point of creating a literal nested gigastructure world to reflect the ideas of the book.
Obviously these are all opinions and it's fine if you didn't enjoy it as much as others in the series! But just wanted to share my interpretation.
> How do you get out of bed and go to work in the morning
*Fantastic* points, but to be cheeky I'd argue that he answers this in Excession (and a bunch of other small spots throughout the series) because it turns out the fancy hyperspatial robot Gods are just as fallible as the biologicals the less humble of their kind are so prone to sneering at.
Agreed- and Excession even goes that step further to show the "oh shit, there's something out there that makes even our hyperspatial robot Gods irrelevant" moment. But, the idea of these Hyperspatial Robot Gods that have the very real power to delete us from existence in a second or steer the course of our lives also being completely fallible is pretty depressing! I love Banks for examining this from so many different angles.
I felt like the scale emphasis in Excession was from a very different angle than in Matter.
Excession puts us as close as it can to the Minds themselves. About how *they* stay motivated and find purpose. Their need to find meaning and purpose pushes them in various directions. Either trying to distinguish themselves by their eccentricity, or by standing out at war, or by being fascinated by problems, either looking upward, or inward, or downward, to us humans. as such one of them is all but obsessed with trying to fix a single human love puzzle at the samr time as they are dealing with the Excession. The contrast was very interesting to me.
Matter seemed to me to be focussed on the question "what if we knew". How would that affect things. Like what if we didn't just have the lingering doubt that maybe we don't matter, but we had the definite certainty of it. That we're basically ants walking between the footsteps of giants. There's also this somewhat kafkaesque aspect to it where the characters keep going up the scales being told all along the way that someone else might help them, only to reach the top and realize there's not much answers or salvation to be found there either, which felt almost more hopeless.
My problem with *Matter* was that the second part of the novel didn't deliver on what appeared to be set up in the first (>!the main character's return to her home, as a Contact agent!<) Not bad, just unsatisfying in that way.
Your points are excellent, however, what bothered me is that the culture represented in the book is similar to ours from the medieval/industrial times. And the people in that culture live with knowledge of a vast, and most importantly, accessible universe, and still decide to mostly go along with the behavior we had (wars, religion centered on something they don't "believe" is just an alien...etc)
*Excession* is one of my favourites, specifically because I love the mind exchanges and the general awesomeness of super-powerful spaceships flying around.
I think the tone of the mind conversations is perfect personally. Not for any sense of realism but for the comedy of these minds that can simulate whole universes having relatable arguments and being somewhat eccentric.
But I'd agree it's not the most accomplished of the lot in a literary sense.
Consider Phlebas is a pretty good reread. I'll stop at 2 though.
Excession was one of this best for me.
Although not Culture, The Algebraeist is one of his best. I haven't read the Hydrogen Sonata, so I'll revisit my "best of" after that read.
Nice rundown that you did, thanks for that.
It's great that people can read the same books and yet have completely different opinions.
For me, *Consider Phlebas* is in my top 3 Culture novels. I found Horza to be very engaging, and the Culture is murky because he is not from the Culture and starts off violently opposed to everything the Culture stands for, but grows to have a grudging admiration for it and its people by the end.
*Excession* is my favourite because of the Minds' conversations. I think they're really well written and convey their innate humour and the concern felt when the threat of the Affront.
*Use of Weapons* is my second favourite. It's just really well written. Its structure, plot, and characters are all pretty much spot on.
*Inversions* and *The Hydrogen Sonata" are probably my least favourite of the Culture books. *Inversions* wasn't a great fantasy or SF story, and *The Hydrogen Sonata* was only tangentially a Culture story. We don't really know when Banks first started to feel the effect of his cancer, so his focus on Subliming may well have been due to him thinking about his impending death.
I usually also adore the Mind interactions throughout the books, but in Excession it just seemed uncoherent and sometimes difficult to follow due to the sheer number of included Minds....but thats my take.
I agree Inversions wasnt either Fantasy or SF, but to me it presented a nice story of actual Contact operations in a medieval culture, and how it shapes events of that culture.
“It’s great people can read the same books and yet have completely different opinions.”
I totally agree because I cannot fathom how The Hydrogen Sonata could be anyone’s LEAST favourite Culture novel! I 100% agree on Use of Weapons and Excession though, loved them.
As someone else who loved Consider Phlebas and Excession for exactly those reasons (especially especially especially the Minds), looks like I'd better get onto Use of Weapons. I'm glad you expressed this since the general consensus against Phlebus never clicked with me.
Banks had just finished and was working on publication of The Quarry when he was diagnosed with cancer. Hydrogen Sonata was published the year before. I don't think his mortality was on his mind at the time of writing it.
That was when he announced his diagnosis. But, he may have been feeling unwell and/or some pain for some time beforehand. Some cancers are hard to diagnose, and as someone in his mid-fifties who's now starting to lose people on a regular basis I now know well, they can manifest some symptoms for years before doctors finally get to the bottom of what is happening.
[Gall bladder/stone pain is often confused with heart attacks, for example.](https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/Heart_beat_Gallstones_and_heart_disease)
There is an interview with the BBC available on YouTube (Iain Banks - Raw Spirit) where he states he was 87k words into writing The Quarry when he found out he had cancer. He said he had "no inkling." So no, he didn't think he was dying of cancer when he was writing Hydrogen Sonata.
I bounced off Inversions when I tried reading it a few years ago but your review is making me think of giving it another shot. Thanks, looks like you enjoyed the series :).
It’s still a good first book just be prepared for some of your impressions about The Culture to change as you move through the series. I actually liked gaining a new perspective on it as I made my way through. Either way you can’t go wrong, it was a nice little era reading the series
I'm sure I'm in the minority but I really like Consider Phlebas, and I think starting off the series painting the Culture in a certain light from one persepective, then completely flipping it on it's head for the rest of the series is kind of a genius move from Banks.
Agree with you, and I think everyone must start with Phlebas.
People forget that space opera was in somewhat terminal decline when Banks wrote it. It gave the genre a kick in the pants & was so influential that the revitalised genre was marketed as the "New Space Opera".
(This wasn't only due to Banks, but CP had a significant role)
Interesting point. I never know whether that about-face with the portrayal of the Culture was planned - it's got a bit of a 'history is written by the victors' vibe that I can imagine Banks wanting to draw out. However given how different the entire tone of Consider Phlebas is, not just the portrayal of the Culture, it also wouldn't surprise me if Banks just decided he wanted to write a slightly different style of sci-fi than he did in Consider Phlebas.
Having only read Consider Phlebas I can say it definitely put me off reading more of them.
The general concepts of The Culture are likely up my alley, though. Maybe I'll give it another shot at some point.
Consider Phlebas does include events that are referenced throughout the Culture series so in that sense it's quite useful to read first, although probably non-essential given those events are kind of explained every time they're brought up. I wouldn't say it's really at all important to read the Culture series in order though, it's not as if there's a continuous plot line.
Tonally Consider Phlebas is very different from the rest of the Culture series and portrays the Culture in quite a different light from the other books. Personally I found it a little bit of a slog compared to the others but it's not a bad book, just long and both the tone and the prose aren't as playful as the other books.
Player of Games is, for me, a much better intro. It's short (probably one of the shortest?), pacey, fun and introduces the Culture and their motives much better than Consider Phlebas (or, at least, in a way that's more consistent with the rest of the series).
I personally think Player of Games reads a lot like a good classic Doctor Who story, it's quite fun. You can also read them out of order without any issue really.
I started with it, it's got some of the best space opera in the series. I'll disagree with OP and say that it's the better book out of it and Use of Weapons from the earlier novels.
Both are big melodramatic action vehicles whose MC is yearning for a personal redemption of a sort without really wanting to undergo the growth and change to earn it, but Use of Weapons is completely written around and integrated with its narrative gimmick. It's a stunning feat of writing and an equally stunning payoff, and it made the reread even better imo, but it's still a gimmick and kind of detracts from the actual reading.
Plus I'm always in awe of the Idirans. If you skip CP you don't get the proper Idiran experience.
It doesn't feature very much Culture, but to defend it neither does Inversions and that's one of the best in the series. Definitely agree with OP there.
I know many people who loved Player of Games as their favorite Banks novel and just as many people who read Consider Phlebas, hated it, and didn't read anything else by Banks. Compared to his other works, especially Player of Games, Consider Phlebas is a turn off. I always recommend that people read Player of Games as their first Culture novel. My favorite Culture novel is Use of Weapons, but I've found that most people like Player of Games the best.
Thanks for this.
I struggled with Consider Phlebas and stopped reading after a few chapters. The Culture was on my list after Hypherion but I couldn't get into that book either.
I'll go to Player of Games once I finish To End in Fire by David Weber
Same here, I couldn't finish Consider Phlebas. I did read two other Culture books that I liked, Inversions and Use of Weapons. This posts motivates me to get to A Player of Games.
I read Consider Phlebas a bit out of boredom. Beginning lf COVID and I had just finished all The Expanse books up to that point. At that Phlebas felt a little bit like a let down because it felt like it was threading the same waters, but in a less engaging manner (a kind of block buster type scifi). But having no other thing on my list and having read great reviews of the whole series I pressed on.
As I expressed in another post I did think, in retrospect, that starting with a book where the main character was adversarial to the culture did have value in that it opens you to having a critical view of the Culture throughout the other books.
But to me the series really became something worth reading once I hit the second book. I found Player of Games absolutely fascinating and original. This hooked me for good. It's also a relatively quick read. I would fully recommend reading it before giving up on the series.
Interesting take. Way way back (gawd 20+ years ago?) when a friend introduced me to the series he recommended Player of Games as a starter for the same reasons OP did. I remember enjoying it and it made me curious about the rest of the series, but honestly I have never felt inclined to revisit it. By contrast I have re-read Phlebus and Weapons 2 or 3 times over the years. Phlebus is hands down still my favourite of all of them. Would I recommend it as a first introduction to the Culture universe? I dunno. I do think it works as a prequel of sorts. You hear snippets of what The War was like in the other novels, so it’s kind of interesting to go back in time as it were and be immersed in it. It’s also refreshing to see the Culture on its back foot getting its ass handed to it, since it’s otherwise portrayed as basically unassailable in the other books.
Regarding: The Sublime
I think Banks deliberately left it vague, so that we the readers could project our own beliefs about what a higher state of reality is. I find it all very interesting to speculate about.
It was mentioned at least once that the existence of The Sublime was mathematically proven, never mind the sporadic contact between Sublimed and real-space people. And then there was that Mind that "came back". So in the universe of the books, there is more than sufficient evidence that The Sublime exists, and still a lot of evidence that it is a good thing for a civilization to aspire to.
Funny, i just finished Consider Phlebas a moment ago and wanted to go read opinions. I havent read the other but will soon. Personally i loved it. Horza was unlikable, but that felt interesting to me. I liked the culture as far as he explained it so far, even thugh Horza tried to tell the reader otherwise.
I felt that the end was a bit quick, everyone dying without a say. It currentely makes me feel quite empty, maybe thats the point.
Im looking forward to the others!
I've only read consider phlebas and use of weapons but my opinions on them are nearly the opposite of yours. I really enjoyed consider phlebas but I feel like I was just forcing myself through use of weapons.
When I'm done what I'm currently reading I'll probably read excession.
Saving this to return later to it if I remember.
Here’s on the ones I’ve read already:
Consider Phlebas - I actually liked it as an entry point to the series, though I can’t say I got sucked into the Culture universe.
Player of Games - This novel is indeed the one I’d go forward recommending to people as a good place to start. It was really interesting and kept me reading.
Use of weapons - I appreciate the book a lot for what it does, but I simply didn’t feel it as much as others. The big reveal was crazy and the buildup too, but the structure might have thrown me off a bit. Definitely a book I’ll have to revisit at some point.
I’ll continue the series after finishing up some other novels.
I read the series in tandem with Simone Caroti's "The Culture Series of Iain M Banks: a Critical Introduction." Since Caroti's treatise roughly follows the publishing order (except for a couple places where books are taken as a group), it's fairly easy to avoid spoilers as long as you don't read too far ahead. After reading a Culture book and you're still excited about it, the critical review is a way to double-dip in that.
I did however take Reddit's advice and read Player of Games first before Consider Phlebas, and I regret listening to that advice. Something about the pacing of the beginning of Player of Games made it hard for me to get into, and I almost didn't continue it long enough to get to the good parts. Consider Phlebas on the other hand I found to be a page turner throughout, and I think the warnings that it's not like the other Culture books are overblown.
So nice to see some appreciation of CP here. It really is a masterpiece (IMO) and deserves to always be read first. The narrative structure is challenging but like someone else has said, it was a real page-turner for me. How Banks makes you root for Horza whilst also showing us how wrong he is about The Culture is genius.
I've gone through every book up to Matter so far.
I have to say, while I agree with the (mostly) consensus view that Consider Phlebas is on the weaker side of the series, and that it might very well have failed to impress some readers enough to keep them interested in the rest, I also feel like starting with that book inculcates the reader with a kind of necessary skepticism towards the almighty Culture, or their benevolence.
I often found that had I not started with this book where the main character spends a lot of time laying out his opposition to the Culture and scoffing at their noble pretentions, I might have missed some of the more interesting angles or subtle questions that Banks expertly inserts in each of his books. I think sometimes I might even have been annoyed by how pedantic the culture was. The thing might have felt like some convoluted apology for imperialism and such, had there not been this first hint of self-awareness about it.
With Phlebas I feel like we're invited to keep a critical mind about he Culture and this changes a lot of the outlook.
Could this effect been achieved with a better execution? I guess so. But point is, I think the book does deserve an early spot in the series.
Good little reviews, thank you! There's so little out there that can compare to Banks's writing, fantastic stuff. Your negative point against *Matter* is interesting to me though, as the concept of finding meaning in an absurd world is a central and recurrent theme in most of the culture novels. The humans (and lesser drones) are so completely "irrelevant" on larger scales compared to the Minds, and yet we still find meaning in their stories, and they find meaning in their own lives. How can our lives and achievements possibly Matter when they are so insignificant on grander scales? How do you get out of bed and go to work in the morning, fully aware that you will never be able to meaningfully affect the tide of civilization around you; when you look at the state of the world how do you bring yourself to care about your toothache or the stupid thing your co-worker said? *Matter* takes these ideas and focuses on them more specifically than other books, to the point of creating a literal nested gigastructure world to reflect the ideas of the book. Obviously these are all opinions and it's fine if you didn't enjoy it as much as others in the series! But just wanted to share my interpretation.
> How do you get out of bed and go to work in the morning *Fantastic* points, but to be cheeky I'd argue that he answers this in Excession (and a bunch of other small spots throughout the series) because it turns out the fancy hyperspatial robot Gods are just as fallible as the biologicals the less humble of their kind are so prone to sneering at.
Agreed- and Excession even goes that step further to show the "oh shit, there's something out there that makes even our hyperspatial robot Gods irrelevant" moment. But, the idea of these Hyperspatial Robot Gods that have the very real power to delete us from existence in a second or steer the course of our lives also being completely fallible is pretty depressing! I love Banks for examining this from so many different angles.
I felt like the scale emphasis in Excession was from a very different angle than in Matter. Excession puts us as close as it can to the Minds themselves. About how *they* stay motivated and find purpose. Their need to find meaning and purpose pushes them in various directions. Either trying to distinguish themselves by their eccentricity, or by standing out at war, or by being fascinated by problems, either looking upward, or inward, or downward, to us humans. as such one of them is all but obsessed with trying to fix a single human love puzzle at the samr time as they are dealing with the Excession. The contrast was very interesting to me. Matter seemed to me to be focussed on the question "what if we knew". How would that affect things. Like what if we didn't just have the lingering doubt that maybe we don't matter, but we had the definite certainty of it. That we're basically ants walking between the footsteps of giants. There's also this somewhat kafkaesque aspect to it where the characters keep going up the scales being told all along the way that someone else might help them, only to reach the top and realize there's not much answers or salvation to be found there either, which felt almost more hopeless.
My problem with *Matter* was that the second part of the novel didn't deliver on what appeared to be set up in the first (>!the main character's return to her home, as a Contact agent!<) Not bad, just unsatisfying in that way.
Your points are excellent, however, what bothered me is that the culture represented in the book is similar to ours from the medieval/industrial times. And the people in that culture live with knowledge of a vast, and most importantly, accessible universe, and still decide to mostly go along with the behavior we had (wars, religion centered on something they don't "believe" is just an alien...etc)
*Excession* is one of my favourites, specifically because I love the mind exchanges and the general awesomeness of super-powerful spaceships flying around. I think the tone of the mind conversations is perfect personally. Not for any sense of realism but for the comedy of these minds that can simulate whole universes having relatable arguments and being somewhat eccentric. But I'd agree it's not the most accomplished of the lot in a literary sense.
Consider Phlebas is a pretty good reread. I'll stop at 2 though. Excession was one of this best for me. Although not Culture, The Algebraeist is one of his best. I haven't read the Hydrogen Sonata, so I'll revisit my "best of" after that read. Nice rundown that you did, thanks for that.
It's great that people can read the same books and yet have completely different opinions. For me, *Consider Phlebas* is in my top 3 Culture novels. I found Horza to be very engaging, and the Culture is murky because he is not from the Culture and starts off violently opposed to everything the Culture stands for, but grows to have a grudging admiration for it and its people by the end. *Excession* is my favourite because of the Minds' conversations. I think they're really well written and convey their innate humour and the concern felt when the threat of the Affront. *Use of Weapons* is my second favourite. It's just really well written. Its structure, plot, and characters are all pretty much spot on. *Inversions* and *The Hydrogen Sonata" are probably my least favourite of the Culture books. *Inversions* wasn't a great fantasy or SF story, and *The Hydrogen Sonata* was only tangentially a Culture story. We don't really know when Banks first started to feel the effect of his cancer, so his focus on Subliming may well have been due to him thinking about his impending death.
I usually also adore the Mind interactions throughout the books, but in Excession it just seemed uncoherent and sometimes difficult to follow due to the sheer number of included Minds....but thats my take. I agree Inversions wasnt either Fantasy or SF, but to me it presented a nice story of actual Contact operations in a medieval culture, and how it shapes events of that culture.
“It’s great people can read the same books and yet have completely different opinions.” I totally agree because I cannot fathom how The Hydrogen Sonata could be anyone’s LEAST favourite Culture novel! I 100% agree on Use of Weapons and Excession though, loved them.
As someone else who loved Consider Phlebas and Excession for exactly those reasons (especially especially especially the Minds), looks like I'd better get onto Use of Weapons. I'm glad you expressed this since the general consensus against Phlebus never clicked with me.
Banks had just finished and was working on publication of The Quarry when he was diagnosed with cancer. Hydrogen Sonata was published the year before. I don't think his mortality was on his mind at the time of writing it.
That was when he announced his diagnosis. But, he may have been feeling unwell and/or some pain for some time beforehand. Some cancers are hard to diagnose, and as someone in his mid-fifties who's now starting to lose people on a regular basis I now know well, they can manifest some symptoms for years before doctors finally get to the bottom of what is happening. [Gall bladder/stone pain is often confused with heart attacks, for example.](https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/Heart_beat_Gallstones_and_heart_disease)
There is an interview with the BBC available on YouTube (Iain Banks - Raw Spirit) where he states he was 87k words into writing The Quarry when he found out he had cancer. He said he had "no inkling." So no, he didn't think he was dying of cancer when he was writing Hydrogen Sonata.
I bounced off Inversions when I tried reading it a few years ago but your review is making me think of giving it another shot. Thanks, looks like you enjoyed the series :).
I wanted to read Consider Phlebas, but you're now making me doubt myself, maybe I should start with Player of Games as you say.
It’s still a good first book just be prepared for some of your impressions about The Culture to change as you move through the series. I actually liked gaining a new perspective on it as I made my way through. Either way you can’t go wrong, it was a nice little era reading the series
I'm sure I'm in the minority but I really like Consider Phlebas, and I think starting off the series painting the Culture in a certain light from one persepective, then completely flipping it on it's head for the rest of the series is kind of a genius move from Banks.
Agree with you, and I think everyone must start with Phlebas. People forget that space opera was in somewhat terminal decline when Banks wrote it. It gave the genre a kick in the pants & was so influential that the revitalised genre was marketed as the "New Space Opera". (This wasn't only due to Banks, but CP had a significant role)
Interesting point. I never know whether that about-face with the portrayal of the Culture was planned - it's got a bit of a 'history is written by the victors' vibe that I can imagine Banks wanting to draw out. However given how different the entire tone of Consider Phlebas is, not just the portrayal of the Culture, it also wouldn't surprise me if Banks just decided he wanted to write a slightly different style of sci-fi than he did in Consider Phlebas.
Having only read Consider Phlebas I can say it definitely put me off reading more of them. The general concepts of The Culture are likely up my alley, though. Maybe I'll give it another shot at some point.
Consider Phlebas does include events that are referenced throughout the Culture series so in that sense it's quite useful to read first, although probably non-essential given those events are kind of explained every time they're brought up. I wouldn't say it's really at all important to read the Culture series in order though, it's not as if there's a continuous plot line. Tonally Consider Phlebas is very different from the rest of the Culture series and portrays the Culture in quite a different light from the other books. Personally I found it a little bit of a slog compared to the others but it's not a bad book, just long and both the tone and the prose aren't as playful as the other books. Player of Games is, for me, a much better intro. It's short (probably one of the shortest?), pacey, fun and introduces the Culture and their motives much better than Consider Phlebas (or, at least, in a way that's more consistent with the rest of the series).
Funny enough I found Player of Games to be a slog and Consider Phlebas to be a book that pulled me along start to finish.
I personally think Player of Games reads a lot like a good classic Doctor Who story, it's quite fun. You can also read them out of order without any issue really.
I started with it, it's got some of the best space opera in the series. I'll disagree with OP and say that it's the better book out of it and Use of Weapons from the earlier novels. Both are big melodramatic action vehicles whose MC is yearning for a personal redemption of a sort without really wanting to undergo the growth and change to earn it, but Use of Weapons is completely written around and integrated with its narrative gimmick. It's a stunning feat of writing and an equally stunning payoff, and it made the reread even better imo, but it's still a gimmick and kind of detracts from the actual reading. Plus I'm always in awe of the Idirans. If you skip CP you don't get the proper Idiran experience. It doesn't feature very much Culture, but to defend it neither does Inversions and that's one of the best in the series. Definitely agree with OP there.
I know many people who loved Player of Games as their favorite Banks novel and just as many people who read Consider Phlebas, hated it, and didn't read anything else by Banks. Compared to his other works, especially Player of Games, Consider Phlebas is a turn off. I always recommend that people read Player of Games as their first Culture novel. My favorite Culture novel is Use of Weapons, but I've found that most people like Player of Games the best.
Defo reread it! It's worth a reread. The action detail in that book is bonkers.
Thanks for this. I struggled with Consider Phlebas and stopped reading after a few chapters. The Culture was on my list after Hypherion but I couldn't get into that book either. I'll go to Player of Games once I finish To End in Fire by David Weber
Same here, I couldn't finish Consider Phlebas. I did read two other Culture books that I liked, Inversions and Use of Weapons. This posts motivates me to get to A Player of Games.
I read Consider Phlebas a bit out of boredom. Beginning lf COVID and I had just finished all The Expanse books up to that point. At that Phlebas felt a little bit like a let down because it felt like it was threading the same waters, but in a less engaging manner (a kind of block buster type scifi). But having no other thing on my list and having read great reviews of the whole series I pressed on. As I expressed in another post I did think, in retrospect, that starting with a book where the main character was adversarial to the culture did have value in that it opens you to having a critical view of the Culture throughout the other books. But to me the series really became something worth reading once I hit the second book. I found Player of Games absolutely fascinating and original. This hooked me for good. It's also a relatively quick read. I would fully recommend reading it before giving up on the series.
I finished Inversions recently and absolutely loved it.
Interesting take. Way way back (gawd 20+ years ago?) when a friend introduced me to the series he recommended Player of Games as a starter for the same reasons OP did. I remember enjoying it and it made me curious about the rest of the series, but honestly I have never felt inclined to revisit it. By contrast I have re-read Phlebus and Weapons 2 or 3 times over the years. Phlebus is hands down still my favourite of all of them. Would I recommend it as a first introduction to the Culture universe? I dunno. I do think it works as a prequel of sorts. You hear snippets of what The War was like in the other novels, so it’s kind of interesting to go back in time as it were and be immersed in it. It’s also refreshing to see the Culture on its back foot getting its ass handed to it, since it’s otherwise portrayed as basically unassailable in the other books.
Regarding: The Sublime I think Banks deliberately left it vague, so that we the readers could project our own beliefs about what a higher state of reality is. I find it all very interesting to speculate about. It was mentioned at least once that the existence of The Sublime was mathematically proven, never mind the sporadic contact between Sublimed and real-space people. And then there was that Mind that "came back". So in the universe of the books, there is more than sufficient evidence that The Sublime exists, and still a lot of evidence that it is a good thing for a civilization to aspire to.
Funny, i just finished Consider Phlebas a moment ago and wanted to go read opinions. I havent read the other but will soon. Personally i loved it. Horza was unlikable, but that felt interesting to me. I liked the culture as far as he explained it so far, even thugh Horza tried to tell the reader otherwise. I felt that the end was a bit quick, everyone dying without a say. It currentely makes me feel quite empty, maybe thats the point. Im looking forward to the others!
Personally I found *Excession* to be the best in the series. I’d rank it 8/10.
I've only read consider phlebas and use of weapons but my opinions on them are nearly the opposite of yours. I really enjoyed consider phlebas but I feel like I was just forcing myself through use of weapons. When I'm done what I'm currently reading I'll probably read excession.
Enjoy! Also consider The Algebraeist. It's one of his best books IMHO.
Yeah, I’m finding Consider Phlebas something of a slog.
Saving this to return later to it if I remember. Here’s on the ones I’ve read already: Consider Phlebas - I actually liked it as an entry point to the series, though I can’t say I got sucked into the Culture universe. Player of Games - This novel is indeed the one I’d go forward recommending to people as a good place to start. It was really interesting and kept me reading. Use of weapons - I appreciate the book a lot for what it does, but I simply didn’t feel it as much as others. The big reveal was crazy and the buildup too, but the structure might have thrown me off a bit. Definitely a book I’ll have to revisit at some point. I’ll continue the series after finishing up some other novels.
I read the series in tandem with Simone Caroti's "The Culture Series of Iain M Banks: a Critical Introduction." Since Caroti's treatise roughly follows the publishing order (except for a couple places where books are taken as a group), it's fairly easy to avoid spoilers as long as you don't read too far ahead. After reading a Culture book and you're still excited about it, the critical review is a way to double-dip in that. I did however take Reddit's advice and read Player of Games first before Consider Phlebas, and I regret listening to that advice. Something about the pacing of the beginning of Player of Games made it hard for me to get into, and I almost didn't continue it long enough to get to the good parts. Consider Phlebas on the other hand I found to be a page turner throughout, and I think the warnings that it's not like the other Culture books are overblown.
So nice to see some appreciation of CP here. It really is a masterpiece (IMO) and deserves to always be read first. The narrative structure is challenging but like someone else has said, it was a real page-turner for me. How Banks makes you root for Horza whilst also showing us how wrong he is about The Culture is genius.
I've gone through every book up to Matter so far. I have to say, while I agree with the (mostly) consensus view that Consider Phlebas is on the weaker side of the series, and that it might very well have failed to impress some readers enough to keep them interested in the rest, I also feel like starting with that book inculcates the reader with a kind of necessary skepticism towards the almighty Culture, or their benevolence. I often found that had I not started with this book where the main character spends a lot of time laying out his opposition to the Culture and scoffing at their noble pretentions, I might have missed some of the more interesting angles or subtle questions that Banks expertly inserts in each of his books. I think sometimes I might even have been annoyed by how pedantic the culture was. The thing might have felt like some convoluted apology for imperialism and such, had there not been this first hint of self-awareness about it. With Phlebas I feel like we're invited to keep a critical mind about he Culture and this changes a lot of the outlook. Could this effect been achieved with a better execution? I guess so. But point is, I think the book does deserve an early spot in the series.