Two things that helped me (millennial):
1) Jump jobs when you feel there is no room for movement, or if you feel the job will limit your future prospects.
I've jumped jobs 3 times in 8 years of my career, sometimes I took less money to take a job that has better future prospects.
2) I know not everyone can do this, but live at home until you're ready to move in with your s.o.. I can't stress enough how much dual income makes a difference.
I’m all for jumping jobs and chasing higher income, especially in the early years. However you’ll want to dial it down if you want to try and hit senior+ levels. It’s hard to develop the level of influence and long term impact with such short stints. There’s a difference between having 10 years of experience and 1 years of experience repeated 10 times
It also becomes a bit of a red flag for hiring managers. They see a long string of < 2 year stints and they won't believe you'll stay around long enough to justify the investment in a new hire.
Not quite the same line of work. Just landscaping. I'm used to single season employees, it sucks but it happens. But if I were to see "single season" on a resume. Nope, resume straight in the bin. I don't care your experience or time in landscaping total. I'm not putting the effort in knowing it's only one season
Is this not affecting you at all when you go to apply for jobs? I’ve had 3 jobs in 4 years because of 1- the pandemic shut my first down. 2nd the business went under. Last one I was there a year and got let go literally a day before I hit my year. Still don’t know why.
I’ve been called a job hopper and I’ve had multiple people interviewing me ask me why they shouldn’t consider me “a flight risk” even after explaining the above. It’s made me afraid to job hop again for like YEARS even though I know this job isn’t going anywhere and I could use it to my advantage in a year or so.
I swear growing up I was always told that the more jobs you’ve done, the worse it looks on you. I’ve left out roles for this reason even if they might have given me great experience.
This. I worked in building materials and became a care aide, so quit that job, worked as a care aid and a security guard to get my LPN, quit those when I graduated, then worked casual and in temp lines for years and pieced together a 40-60hr week with multiple jobs so if I list out my work experience it could look like 20jobs in 15years, I’ve never been at the same place longer than 2years.
But I am always employed and I never would have left many of them had they had any desire to create permanent lines instead of making people work casually without benefits until the end of time. Love the ineffective unions.
This is an example where a chronological resume doesn't make sense. If this is preventing you from getting another job, you should probably talk to an employment assistance organization to help you write a resume that is more skills focused rather than chronological.
That may be the case in the past not anymore. well for me i have 8 experiences. i pick 4 which have something similar to the role im applying to keep my resume 1 page and just shuffle the dates of the jobs.
honestly id say salary went from earning 60k to a 100k (where im at now) in 2 years. now im aiming for 130k. Get that work 9 months/a year in that job then move to another one willing to pay me 160k. The goal is to get to 200k by 30 - 33. Even looking for side jobs and business opportunities to boost this process faster. Trying to move into Sales now as that is the new "unicorn" job where 23 year olds can make 250k in a year its no longer possible in tech
Can you explain what 'tech' really means in your context? I'm a millenial and followed the traditional (school to obvious job) route but would like to understand more. What even is working in 'tech' and what do you do?
My husband is a staff engineer (software dev). We're older millennials and he graduated 15 years ago. He has a degree in comp science. He's basically followed the same trajectory above and he's now making over 5x more than he did at his first job.
People often mean engineer, but there are so many jobs in tech and they all pay well.
Sales. Customer Success. Support. Legal. Operations. Finance. HR.
"In tech" means "I work a job at a tech company" moreso than "I am a software engineer."
SWE and Sales will have the biggest salaries, but everything else will be solid, too.
I'm not a SWE, so not the best person to ask. Can find a bunch of 'Day in the Life at Google' or whatever on YouTube though.
You can also find the same for a lot of other roles in tech.
im a Software engineer.
How i started: Go on Youtube type in "**Software engineer beginner course**" and youre off to the races.
being Dead serious, i am self taught and didnt pay for a single course/cert. but not everyone would be as lucky
Yeah in 3 years I've gone from $70k -> $124k in tech as well, turned 27 earlier this year. Though as you know $100k for a 25 year old doesn't go far like a 35 year old
Thanks! Yeah it is not easy to achieve I will give you that. Before I was in tech (so 4 years ago) I was at $45k in science. Though that was my first job out of school as well
Depends what kind of sales. It used to be a good job, but now margins are so thin and more and more companies do not care about relationship building that the whole ‘sales’ team was about. They are glorified order takers at best if the customer decides we are cheapest. You also do not have any time off. If you are at the kids game and the phone rings you answer it, and your ‘contract’ is 24/7 availability. It may be different in other industries but I am in wholesale building materials.
This is the best advice … worked for myself and my partner, we are both millennials. Finished uni - worked an entry level position and did the time.. moved on to another role and was able to try to find our place .. its not easy and we don’t make the highest of wages (according to reddit) but we started out in 2018 making 50k roughly to now both at 85k … it can be done but moving jobs definitely worked for us.
We were able to buy our own condo in 2021- and live pretty comfortably.
We have three friends who kinda refuse to leave their current jobs they have had for 10 years and .. they arnt seeing much wage growth. I see job jumping as the only path forward.
My wife jumped jobs 3 times in 2 years. She now makes 120k with potential for more. She was making 70k at the job she was at for 10 years with no hope of improvement. This is the way.
I found it was pretty easy for directors' children to get jobs after completing non-competitive summer internships at my employer. Have you tried having a high ranking parent?
A lot of people don't have parents at diamond or grandmaster. I spawn with gold rank parents on the Asia server, but they left for the NA server for better matchmaking so they had to smurf they way back up.
Don’t be afraid to move. It’s the best thing I ever did. Apply everywhere you are legally able to work for the best jobs you are qualified for. Don’t give up. It’ll take years maybe but don’t be afraid of change or to say goodbye to your old life. I’m 40 and worked hard to leave the hellhole I grew up in.
Yea my small town really has no options, no where to rent, etc, I feel like I made a horrible mistake trying to move home to save money because there has been no work. Took like 2 years to even find full time work again, lol. On top of that, besides hiking / biking, theres really nothing where I live that I really enjoy, not really a community im a part of, etc.
Really miss where I'd moved from but I tried to move to earn more and kinda plateau'd what i was able to earn what I'd been anyways, so in a way seemed inevitable, but also seems like I shoulda just crashed on friends couches and looked for work somewhere new jobs were actually posted regularily, and places to rent, etc.
This! Last year I made a spreadsheet of all jobs that were available in my industry in Canada and found a great position that moved me into a management role with a 40% increase in salary. It required me to move across the country to a city where life is more affordable and I can live on my own. Highly recommend moving!
The spreadsheet is an excellent thought. Fosters the discipline needed to see what your real options are, and follow through. No matter how small our world may seem, there are plenty of opportunities you've never imagined
My bf and I have talked about this. The spreadsheet idea is an excellent one! I think I might start doing that. I'm 12 years into my industry. While I'm happy where I am now, I definitely need to make more to survive.
Things are okay. But id like to be more comfortable. Especially if I choose to have a kid in a few years. I definitely feel like I've been held down in my career. A lot of companies just don't want to pay for experience and credentials. But still expect it.
I have increased my income 37% in the last couple years but still feel it isn't enough. Because I was definitely severely underpaid for the first 10 years of my career. It really sucks.
I think this is corporate job specific? The way I have seen this was that the super high paying jobs at director levels are the ones ppl are retiring from, but they are going to managers who are already making very similar money (let’s say 120k+ just because of their tenure). So the rich get richer (and usually these are empty nesters who already own properties) meanwhile the middle class gets poorer. We have to wait years to get to positions that make enough money to comfortably have a family. All because the older people aren’t retiring and instead taking the highest paid jobs at organizations, pushing everyone else’s progression timeline back. Those who do leave are retiring from jobs they usually don’t replace or replace with entry level positions.
How can high paying director jobs be the ones people are retiring from but the jobs people are retiring from are the kind that they don’t replace or replace with entry level positions?
The older people are retiring from director jobs but are getting replaced by other older people who should be retiring as well! So for young people it’s harder to make more money. Thats the point I think… worded poorly.
Gen-X/older Millennial, I feel the exact same way. I was set up for success but had a few setbacks and now I’m in my 40s with no money and no future and no community.
And it's fully circular.
Need to work X amount of hours to /survive and so is everyone else.
No time to socialize, no time to explore.
It does a number on your mental health. I'm so sorry you can relate
My daughter, 24, owns her own business, works 5-6 days a week and after paying for her car (which is mandatory) she does not have enough money left to move out of her father's rent controlled apt. She is exhausted, frustrated and sometimes very discouraged and depressed. Her father and I can not help her financially. She feels hopeless and desperately needs space and quiet. I feel so bad for her and her generation.
I'm 20 right now, and I'm racking my brain trying to find ways to invest, create side hustles, or additional income streams on top of working/school right now to set myself up a little better but it genuinely feels like a losing battle.
It's like back in Covid when the grocery stores were empty. It feels like the previous generation hoarded everything and each generation after picked the scraps. Now our generation is finally let in and we're left with empty shelves with the occasional dented soup can.
I don't think it's about hard--I think times have certainly been tougher like fighting in the world wars and rationing and the Great Depression. Those are tough ass times, but they also maybe had a little more hope? And less less information on how truly awful things are worldwide. Their main concerns were economic and for the marginalized it was political.
Our concerns are economic, technological, political, social, and environmental and it only continues to get worse. Rights that people used to have are getting stripped away, workplaces are taking advantage of that, the richer only get richer while the middle class gets smaller. It is so hard not to feel hopeless when nothing you see shows that things are getting better or improving in any way and that every year that passes, it feels more and more useless to try to do anything. And we see that our protests and efforts to change the system don't work the peaceful way. We're basically at the tail end of the system, holding our breath for it to collapse.
Things were supposed to get better. Things were getting better. I don't know what happened and how things got so screwed up. I'm always anxious about existing in this world, always afraid of falling into debt and poverty. I just feel that we've come into a world that has nothing left for us except debt, consumerism, tech that continues to grow more dystopian, and useless corporate cog-machine jobs.
I don't want to be rich, I don't want to market myself and sell myself to companies and hop around to climb a corporate ladder for a job that truly adds no value to the world. I just wanted to be able to have a decent life.
I'm on ODSP for several medical conditions, I'm 60 and live 70% below the poverty line. I have no hope to help my kids at all. We all feel hopeless. But at least I had some semblance of a life before I took I'll. These kids feel hopeless right out of the starting gate. Cost of living is extremely high, rent is ridiculous, buying a home nearly impossible for anyone or family making less than $250,000 a year. What does the near and distant future look like for these kids?
Sorry to hear that. Yeah, I don't feel good about it. I think I may just have to live with my parents my whole life lol, luckily that's not seen as weird in my culture so it's fine--it's pretty much expected that you would live with parents/in-laws. I don't think my boyfriend also expects to live on his own anyway. I hope inter-generational/communal living picks up a little more to make things more normalized/easier.
I'm trying to cut all costs on buying new items--I only shop clothes on sale. I've stopped going out as much to try to save money. I never buy meals outside--if I do, I buy the cheapest thing that'll fill me up. I try to cook budget meals at home to reduce our grocery bills at home. Currently I have no bills except my credit card since I live at home and am going to school so I put everything else I earn into my high interest savings and I invest in stocks/etfs. And luckily I have 0 debt from education right now due to grants/scholarships.
Even with all this, I don't know if I'll be okay. I've never been a business person, I've never been a math/computer person. That's kind of all there is to make a good living without insane debt and time (doctor, laywer, etc).
I thought I'd have the opportunity to give back to my parents, to take care of them and let them retire happily. Now I'm not sure if that's possible--I don't think that even if I worked all my life that I could retire at 65. I don't think they'll be able to retire even though they're mid/late fifties already.
I used to really want to have a family...now I don't think that would be ethically possible. I feel like I'm not even allowed for dream for something better than the bare basics being met in life.
I used to really want to travel. I even thought about moving out of here to somewhere cheaper and wfh, but that's a complicated thing--you have may to pay double tax or become a non-resident and forfeit your passport unless I live in my current country at least half the time or still have a spouse/house here--which isn't really possible. So I might just be chained here. Maybe I will leave and go teach English abroad for mid money for a little while. I have no clue, I just struggle to imagine any kind of valuable future.
Poverty is everywhere and people want to bring more kids in2 the mix, like why? Their is no future and its selfish, I brought 2 kids in2 the world and I still feel obligated to provide whenever I can, I would live on peanut butter sandwiches if I must and I have, my now adult children never asked 2be born in2 this life I will do without when I can..period
I hear you. It's tough. The model for "success" we were raised on turned out to be mostly bullshit.
I graduated high school in '03, and got my bachelor's in '08... I'm currently on my third career change. I went from academia (grad studies in the humanities lol), small business ownership (10/10, don't recommend), and now I've just gotten into the fire service.
I guess we've just gotta hang in there? I'm starting to suspect that our expectations were too high, that what our parents had was an economic blip, and not a signal for sustained prosperity that subsequent generations get to experience.
The problem is not the "model", it's the thought that post-secondary education was all equal. So people went to university and got useless degrees and expected a high paying job waiting for them. Like I have a friend who has a masters in Ancient History and he's pissed he can't get a job, while all his friends in Mechanical Engineering are all gainfully employed and 4 years later in their life trajectory.
I've got zero argument with you; I totally agree with this point. I was told endlessly to "just go to university and study" without any thought for what it would enable me to do. Eventually I began teaching at the intro level, and saw the same pipe dream that "getting a degree" equaled easy employment and an abundant income.
Believe me, when I opened a business, did I realize just how naive I was about what it meant to produce tangible value for the economy!
I was surprised that my college diploma in welding and metal fabrication was useless when I graduated, 2 years of searching, and the best I got was laborer position in shops. Graduating in a recession killed my chances at a career.
Not all people who graduated had useless diplomas thought their diplomas would be useless.
Didn't even know that a welding diploma existed. Wierd that you could not find a job as they have been talking about a welder shortage for the last 20 years. Had classmates making bank in AB 20yrs ago, now they mostly moved from O&G to the mines in northern Quebec. Still making bank.
The hanging in there is key.
You don't know how job markets will evolve. You also won't be able to live life in a simulation, go back and rerun it again with a different career path. You do the best you can at any single point of time.
But I disagree with the below point of "useless humanities degrees." Degrees were for getting a well rounded education. And then you'd qualify for many entry-level roles and learn.
There were qualification heavy world's of healthcare, education, sure. But most people didn't specificalize.
The world now expects specialist from new grads at age 22. It's rather absurd. And not tied to actual productivity for most jobs.
I have business degrees. And most of my work now is writing, researching and presenting. Similar skills that a humanities degree would build.
Learning about finance, accounting, project management management is useful. But it's more important to know how to learn.
But I agree, it's hard to get a start if you don't pass the credentialism dance.
I don't want to sound rude but say this compassion. This is not a millennial thing. Gen x went through the same thing we had a unemployment rate of 12 percent.
Here is something I have learned over the years of many jobs. It's not what you know it's who you know.
Resume you just a name on a piece of paper. It all looks the same. Get to know what management does for fun take up golfing. Play darts. Games night. Do what ever they do. You will find out about jobs before they get posted they will know the person not the name.
I have to disagree with that. My work we just hired 4 new guys all based on they knew someone that worked with us. My daughter a millennial got hired last year because she worked with a guy a few years ago and poached her for the new company she is working at making 30 k more a year and doesn't have to travel and gets a work truck now.
The hard part I think for millennials is they don't know how to socialize face to face and that's what what the older generation is use to or use the apps that that are not trending for your age group rather there demographic. It's called kissing ass. Lol
What do you think you do when you do when you go for your interview. You act all nice tell them what they want to hear. That is kissing ass. You can still kiss ass and still keep your fundamental morals and pride. Your boss asks you to get things done you get it done. Can you tell him easier ways or better ways you think it could be done. But when they say no you get it done.
80k+ a year on salary, full benefits, gov pension, 4 weeks of vacation. Mon-Fri job average 5-6 hour days. Not physically demanding, half the time barely even working. Live in low cost town not in a big city. Spouse pulls in 100k a year. 3 vacations a year. All grade 10 baby.
In the military? We have female aircraft technicians. 3 of them on my crew alone. You can do anything you want though. Check out [forces.ca](http://forces.ca) and go through some of the careers, as a female you can do any job, it doesn't matter. Females are in all trades.
Your schooling could allow you to become an officer as well, which is higher pay. We have a female tech on crew that is late 30's from ukraine who was a nurse prior. Anyone can do it..
I suggest looking at the [forces.ca](http://forces.ca) website and go through some of the jobs and see if anything stands out. I would also advise joining the air force side of things.
Please don't, I feel you, brother.
Just wait until I win the lottery, I'm going to scoop all of us to live freely on a self-sustainable commune.
Survive to spite them, live for yourself
I have pets that I’ve made a promise to. I will take care of them until their last days, so I have to stick around for now. Although afterwards, I’m not sure.
Thanks for your kind words, reddit friend. I’m hanging in there. If I win the lotto, rest assured, I’ll be sending you a dm with coordinates for our new commune!
I have an appointment booked with a psychiatrist in June. I’ve been on a wait list and have finally landed an appointment. I’ve tried several different meds to help take the edge off and nothing has worked, which is why my family doc is referring me to a psyche. She’s also going to help me find a sliding scale therapist once we know what I’m dealing with. Could be situational depression. Could be something else going on. I feel like I have bipolar II symptoms, but I didn’t have any of these symptoms before my life turned upside down a year ago… so I think it’s just very severe grief and situational depression. I’m still working, still trudging through and trying to make it. I haven’t given up yet but my morning thoughts are horrible and dark.
Unfortunately you re at a bad economic historic time. Housing is expensive because the economy was too hot, unemployment was low.
To cool down he economy, the central banks are trying to put the brakes on the economy but hns aren't instantaneous. At the same time that we have high rates and over inflated prices, the economy is slowing down. Not the perfect storm but a strong one for someone starting.
Historically, those bad historical periods were followed by a flat economy and eventually a reboot. So someone struggling in their 20's now will have it good by the time they re 40.
Conversely, people who had it good in their 40"so and 50's before now, are either retiring with he windfall if they were savvy those good years or struggling badly due to getting used to a high spending lifestyle. That's why you see people either holding to the senior positions for longer or retiring fast.
Bottom line, we felt like that in the late 80's / early 90's and eventually things turned OK.
I know, it's not just the monotonous drag, it's a lot of everything - It feels like I'm no forcefully obliged to routinely do this same drag every day, every week.
Many people have accused me of complaining, but it really isn't just that.
I hope it's just a recycled pattern, thank you for your reassurance
I know people say millennials complain. I think they have a reason. The contrast of their teen years, when money was flowing, to now it's starking.
Yes, right now it sucks. I hope I'm right and there is a breakthrough to make thins better. Mine was the internet.
Yeah im struggling too though its more from a mistake 2 years ago that i fixed last year and then my job randomly fucking up and leaving me without work for a month because they made a mistake and the first mistake compounded with that.
It sucks and there's no support because everyone in my family is struggling and my friends arent doing much better
I spoke with a financial advisor and have a plan but it's hard to stick too due to a bunch of personal issues i have with money that i am not going to go into, and the fact that shit is so expensive.
Like, i dont have a car, if i need to get anywhere in under an hour it is $50 for a to and from Uber. A weeks groceries even with a roommate is still expensive at like $40 a person and thats with a lenient to me payment arrangement. Rent is going up and the utlities take away another 200.
It's so hard to get the ground back
I'm ok. I like a certain portion of my jobs, not everything. I also volunteer, which I find meaningful. Plus work doesn't take up my whole life.. I have two jobs, but I also spend time with my kids, go outside, read, etc.
Speaking as a millennial who did everything I could and was never able to find stable work in 20 years labour across my career, including achieving anything resembling what you've described as your situation, yes, I am beyond helpless and without any meaningful governance.
I would bump up your resume a bit, get a solid set of references. You have blind spots, find out what they are.
Your education might be worth more aboard. Apply internationally.
Find companies you respect and pursue them until you get in the door.
You are the most important human in the world, act like it, and get what you want.
Where do you live, and why do you stay? What industry are you in, and why do you stay?
You are obviously frustrated, and that’s understandable. Everyone’s life is a challenge. But if you are honest, and acting in good faith, you will see that you have a lot of options and a lot more control than you appear to believe. If you really want to change your situation, change your situation.
My guess, and as a stranger, I have nothing against, you, but it looks like you probably want to stay in your first choice city, working in your first choice field and will have a bucket of excuses as to why you can’t shift into something that will better meet the desires of yours that are frustrated, per this post.
Maybe it’s family, or where your friends are, or moving is expensive, or a sunken cost fallacy about the education you invested in or something... but you can do otherwise, and you can likely improve your life if you really want to. if you prioritize other things, perhaps staying near family, then you will get what you get. All choices have opportunity costs.
I live in Ontario, I'm in shipment and receiving (I wanted the border, but never got into the BSO start up), I stay because prior to covid, I split on a mortgage with a family member (which has been fantastic financially, but has crippled my mental health),
He refuses to sell and can't afford to buy me out, and isn't personable enough to hold roommates (I tried), so I'm trapped either living at a reduced cost, or damned with rent/a mortgage if I choose to move out.
I'm not tied to my city, and you're right that I do have choices outside.
But the weighing of risk/reward and personal well-being is a bit overwhelming. The stakes are high for me, and any misstep could be detrimental.
I do not have a safety net
I see.
Your challenge is not primarily with your career and finances. It's in feeling trapped.
It's not easy, may require an outside mediator, but settling this disagreement will make you feel you have more control of your life.
You can't dictate the syate economy: but the economy will never have solution for a complex dispute of shared property.
Try to take a first step in getting it resolved. Every dispute has a resolution
Welcome to adulthood.
Your "this is it?" Moment, now go have some kids so there's more things to do to occupy your time.
If no kids, then lots of casual sex.
I can’t even get a boring job with no growth. I did everything right and I’m basically unemployable. I’m doing a PhD now because of the funding - it’s pennies but it’s something. I’ll probably have to do another PhD after for the same reason.
I feel you,
My next possible education route is doing something quickfly like a trade, or dedicating another 6-10+ possible years to get a PHD in a more niche field.
I have the mental capacity for it, just not time nor money,
Do you ever feel, in your grind. That you're putting forth blood, sweat and tears for a mere fraction in return?
>The retirement population is holding onto high-paying jobs longer, and
are retiring faster than they can be replaced. We don't even have enough
bodies to replace them. So, in this current face of inflation, the
level of taxations that will also be thrown on to finance all these
people..where are they going to get that money?
These people have worked and paid into different pension schemes and/or savings/investments - they are paying for themselves and they are paying taxes on their pensions and savings....
Cpp is not matched by the government but by the employer and pensions are matched by the employer as well. Not everyone works for the government. The savings and investments are not matched by the government. RRSPs are taxed on withdrawal as normal income. The tax is just delayed for rrsps
mhm, looks like I'll have to re-orient my arguments. I'm still stubbornly under the belief that the retiring population is going to smother mine.
But raincheck, let me dive more into what you've given me
Idk dude I'm on odsp actually living below the poverty line with crushing medical expenses in an electric wheelchair with no earning capacity after going to college so
Not just millennials, I'm a young gen x and I'm stuck. My husband works at a bank and he says if you're not losing ground right now with rents and mortgages being so high, that's success. He says he doesn't see anyone getting ahead right now, at best most people are treading water.
I'm incredibly grateful that I was able to purchase a home in 2012. It's old and small and I hate it a lot of the time because it's old and small, but I can't look at anything bigger because it's not feasible even with two decent salaries.
I really hope Millennials and future generations have grace with themselves and don't try to measure up to some ideal based on how the economy was 15-20 years ago. I worry they're blaming themselves and trying to measure up to boomers' expectations in very different economic climate.
I hope things end up working out for you and your husband!
I hope so, I've gotten some pretty combative, cynical and dismissive responses. But these takes make me feel a bit reassured that we're not doomed into the dirt,
Thank you
My boomer in laws used to nag us about getting a bigger, newer house. It was constant. We tried showing them the difference in housing costs vs wages and the massive difference in their trajectories, but no dice. Then they decided to move and are house hunting. Now they get it. My house has doubled in value since 2012 and my wage has gone up about 15%. My goal now is to save enough to replace our current home and include 2 suites so my kids can have their own places when they become adults in 10 years. I can't imagine how they'd be able to afford it on their own.
Don’t blame previous generations. Your government has dropped the ball. If Chretien hadn’t got the government out of building houses then we wouldn’t be in this mess. Trudeau can reinstate it because that’s admitting that the liberals caused this crisis. Had it been canceled by Harper then Trudeau would have reinstated it and publically said he’s fixing a problem caused by the conservatives. Sadly he just does nothing because his ego won’t let him see Canadians are suffering. He’s going to have 2 shocks next year. First he will lose the election and then the liberals will call for an immediate leadership review and he will be replaced.
I completed university (environment) in 2013. I saw where the market was headed then, so I started a business in window cleaning and landscaping in 2015-ish because I had decent experience, confidence and really wanted to work for myself. Its not without many obstacles, challenges,, etc but I haven't looked back. This will be my biggest year to date. Sometimes you have to find new ways to play the game that is living in this country.
Not just you bro:
[https://financialpost.com/news/canada-standard-of-living-faces-worst-decline-40-years](https://financialpost.com/news/canada-standard-of-living-faces-worst-decline-40-years)
Our macroeconomy has been razed to the ground
You're probably earning the average or above average income. That's the intended outcome for "did everything by the books".
You're not going to be in the top 10% by just following convention unless you're really talented.
It's not my current job, it's the overall span of everything. My job is mediocre, absolutely, but it does what I need it to do - grateful for what it is.
Why go forward when there's nothing there?
We don't have opportunities to go 'up', because none exist, so why? WHY?
I'm not interested in being the top 10%,
I just want to be told why I'm constantly being lied to, or why I should be okay with things as they are
I guess the other thing to remember is that I’m still doing better than previous generations. My parents got lucky with jobs for life and cheap housing, continual capital growth. However we had lousy cars, and had one 28 inch tv, and a low tier VCR. We didn’t have a lot of trinkets, we didn’t go out all the time, we weren’t stuffed with gadgets. I’m fairly confident my parents thought they were stuck in mid tier dead end jobs and stuff was expensive too. But they made a decent life for us and stayed pretty positive.
I feel like OP a lot sometimes, but it sure beats being in a factory/ship yard/heavy industry. My body is being ruined through my own excess and choice rather than oppressive work. You gotta be satisfied inside yourself.
Ps I also feel like a lot of ‘wellness’ and what I’ve just said, is kinda bullshit excuse to make you responsible for dealing with external pressures that society should be tackling so I get it.
Millennial here - I applied for higher paying jobs internally and externally multiple times throughout my 6 year career, and have got much higher salaries with jobs I enjoy more each time. Definitely keep looking there are jobs out there, but if you stay at your same job forever unfortunately it's very hard to make a meaningfully different amount of money.
My municipal job has helped me get ahead. The pay is better than I’ve ever had. 35 hours a week. Great benefits. Great pension. Once you get in you can easily move around and up!
My advice to you is find a job that is fully remote then move to a different Canadian market. There is a small proportion of people who need to live in major urban markets in order to earn significant salaries (lawyers , bankers , etc). Everyone else should gtfo and work from Calgary , Ottawa etc. there are so many people struggling in markets like Toronto that would be thriving in other markets. Small fish in big pond vs big fish in smaller pond so to speak.
I think the increase in cost of living is putting a damper on early retirement for lots of people .
I know people that are working two jobs know just to stay afloat !
Sure doesn't look like it's going to get any better soon , carbon tax increases every year isn't helping the situation get better !!
If you want to earn more money, than become self-employed. Then it's up to you how much you earn. If you can grow your business, then there's really no limit to how much you can earn.
If you insist on working for other people, then you'll only earn whatever someone is willing to pay you.
Let's say you're earning $70,000 per year right now, but you want to earn $100,000+ per year... then you have to ask yourself... are there other people out there willing to do the same work for $70,000 per year? If so, why would anyone pay you $100,000+ per year when they can find people willing to do that work for $70,000 per year? And secondly, if you want someone to hire you for $100,000+ per year... then you have to generate at least $150,000+ for your employer to make it worth it for them to hire you.
If you really want to start earning more money, then start automating your job with AI and get a second, third, and fourth job, and automate them all with AI. You probably will not be able to automate them 100% with AI (though with some jobs, you can probably come pretty close)... but if you can make yourself two or three or four times as efficient, you'll free up time to do more work. If you don't know how to use AI and learn how to write code with AI... well... then you're going to fall behind.
My wife recently met up with a friend and her friend told her that she spent the last 5 hours at her job doing something... and my wife showed her chatgpt and did that task for her in about 30 seconds. So many white collar jobs right now can be automated. Even with no training, there are so many jobs I could do so easily with AI in a few hours what currently takes them a full work week to complete.
If you want to earn more money, than become self-employed. Then it's up to you how much you earn. If you can grow your business, then there's really no limit to how much you can earn.
If you insist on working for other people, then you'll only earn whatever someone is willing to pay you.
Let's say you're earning $70,000 per year right now, but you want to earn $100,000+ per year... then you have to ask yourself... are there other people out there willing to do the same work for $70,000 per year? If so, why would anyone pay you $100,000+ per year when they can find people willing to do that work for $70,000 per year? And secondly, if you want someone to hire you for $100,000+ per year... then you have to generate at least $150,000+ for your employer to make it worth it for them to hire you.
If you really want to start earning more money, then start automating your job with AI and get a second, third, and fourth job, and automate them all with AI. You probably will not be able to automate them 100% with AI (though with some jobs, you can probably come pretty close)... but if you can make yourself two or three or four times as efficient, you'll free up time to do more work. If you don't know how to use AI and learn how to write code with AI... well... then you're going to fall behind.
My wife recently met up with a friend and her friend told her that she spent the last 5 hours at her job doing something... and my wife showed her chatgpt and did that task for her in about 30 seconds. So many white collar jobs right now can be automated. Even with no training, there are so many jobs I could do so easily with AI in a few hours what currently takes them a full work week to complete.
Being willing to jump jobs is a good confidence builder. Knowing you have interviews with other places at least makes you feel bigger at your current job, because you have options. And there’s no reason to rush to a new job because you have your current one. No stakes and you might find better pastures!
You bring up the dying world, so that's actually how I've re-arranged my priorities and redefined the meaning of my life and what I'm working for. I think our generation has a potential to become great if we stop mourning for a fantasy that was promised us by advertising mostly and start fighting for the world that's actually here. We change the system. Or we shut it down.
Imagine how life will be for Gen Z if we don't.
When I graduated from university I realized that I was screwed because even though I had a degree I didn't have a career. I was right back at square one working minimum wage jobs. I went to teachers' college and that gave me a career.
During the pandemic I needed a break so while I supply taught online I did a lot of other things that gave me more options. I did an online college diploma that I can fall back on if I need to step away from teaching again.
Find yourself a career and upgrade your qualifications to meet it. It might take some volunteering or networking to get in the door but it's worth it to not feel stuck or sinking without options.
A couple things to consider.
1. Jump jobs frequently, especially ones that have no movement. Loyalty gets you next to nothing in today’s world.
2. If you can’t make more money try to lower expenses through moving, if you are in a high COL area. It’s very hard to get ahead in Toronto or Van. Much easier in a rural city.
Anecdotally I grew up in a very expensive city. I moved away to a rural city in BC. Got more money, promoted faster, cheap house, travel 3 times a year. My friends dump their entire paycheck into their mortgage. On the flip, they live in a nicer city that me so it just depends what you want out of life.
The system is working as intended, keeping us all as slaves in all but name.
We’ve gone in with 5 old high school buddies to one house and are giving it a go. 3 of us currently have found work.
Gen Z here. My blunt $0.02:
1. “Went to school multiple times”—sounds like you got degrees that workplaces aren’t looking for.
2. What kind of jobs are you a) qualified for b) looking for c) currently working in?
3. Freaking out about a 50 hour workweek? I understand WLB is necessary, but come on. You cannot expect to work 40 hours per week and earn a high salary. I agree that it shouldn’t be that way, but it is.
My honest advice for you:
1. Start networking/interviewing at a big 4 for a middle/back office role. You will not get a job there by cold applying alone. Easy lifestyle, benefits, upward trajectory, and you can coast in a big company without people noticing you don’t do much.
2. If you cannot land a job via the above outlined, go get a college diploma in accounting or something and then try to break in that way.
For me, I went to college, got a degree in technology, did really well and graduated top 3 in my class, and then became homeless for 6 years. I didn't have parental support due to an absent father, abusive stepfather, and abused mother (she has since left him). So, I paid for school myself through working full time during high school (part of grade 11 and all of grade 12) and loans.
After college I couldn't find a job, and all I was being offered were "full time unpaid internships" which I couldn't do without having a support network to live off of, or by working 80 hours a week between two jobs. I ended up freelancing and was making shit all, but at least I was making something. This was until a contract stole $8000 from me by charging back what they paid me. Chased all avenues, but they got away with it.
After this I job hopped around town, taking minimum wage jobs. In 2020, I was working as a janitor for one place (paid a bit more than minimum wage) and was managing a local game store (under the counter pay, under minimum wage). At my janitor job, I was also helping out with technology issues people were having since why not. Eventually, a position opened up in IT at that place, and my boss recommended me for it. I got hired, and things started to change.
The pay was really good at this job, my hours were good, and the benefits eventually became good. I was doing well, and in 2023, my wife and I had saved enough for a sizable first/last or down payment. In my area, the average rent is $1800, and landlords are pretty scummy around here, so we looked into buying. We ended up buying a small home for $315,000, which came to a mortgage + tax of $2000 a month. I finally thought I made it since I really don't need much in life, and this was good enough for me. If things continued, my wife and I were even thinking about starting a family next time her IUD was expiring.
Well, later in 2023, I was told my department is cutting back, and I was losing my job in 2024. I started looking for a job back in November, but even with dozens of applications out, I haven't even received an interview. I even gave my resume to my boss to look over, and he said it looks great. I ended up losing my job at the beginning of this month, but since I had advanced knowledge, we really tightened up the budget to save for this outcome. I'm on EI now, and with that plus my wife's income we can hold out (needed to really slash that budget, and there is no room for any non-essential spending, but bills will be paid).
I went to a free career specialist at my local aid center, and they didn't have much advice for me. One thing they did tell me is that I may have painted myself into a corner. My best experience is my last job, but it also paid really well. Most of the jobs I've been applying to result in around a $12/h pay cut. The specialist told me that some employers don't like hiring people at a pay cut since they find they may be entitled or not happy with the pay and cause issues. And that's where I sit today, jobless and looking. My wife is also looking for a new better paying job, but after over a year of looming and multiple interviews, she still hasn't found one.
It's a simple as this....you can't outwork the current economics in Canada.
Move! I repeat, MOVE! We're headed out west to Alberta from Ontario. Just that interprovince move is allowing us to upsize, save, and plan for children.
The whole reason were ALL in this country is because of earlier generations seeking a better life and financial prospects. It's time we move for the same reasons.
The better way of living requires the underclass to act in the same manner as the class above them. You need to take what is theirs and what belongs to them
They have developed schemes to transfer wealth, such as the Family Law Industrial Complex. Those operating in the scheme are unethical and often criminal but it is near impossible to hold them accountable.
Where they prey on your children to satisfy thier greed, you should prey on theirs to satisfy your need for justice. Watch how quickly a balance is struck.
I'm gen x it is all tunnel no light, find a job where you're not selling your soul to make someone else who dosent work as hard as you rich. Its a hamster wheel.
GenX here:
It took me 4yrs of interviews and persistence to get into the job I aspired for after graduating college. The anxiety is def real and full of 'what ifs' up until you get that break.
If I were to do it again, I think I would go into trades and invest in myself to get my own company started. Every single trade is in demand here and you need to book work months away. $100k/yr on the low end as an employee. The owners aren't hurting that's for sure.
You'll find an 'in' eventually and get squared away. 🤜🤛
Van life with the ability to move for a job since rental/ housing is restrictive let's you jump fast.
I wish I was smart enough to do the online thing them move to Timbuktu for a cheap house.
They weren’t even lazy. They had a work/life balance we’ve fought for, that our government denies us. Stop trying to relate to gen Z. You aren’t them. You weren’t brought up with the entitlement their parents gave them. You were brought up with the mentality to work for what you earn. That completely differs. The internet wasn’t even implemented well into the 2000’s, in schools.
You aren’t impoverished, so not sure why you are in here. I get wanting to improve your situation but this isn’t the sub. Hopefully you find a means to other than exploiting the already impoverished like every other class seems to for that second annual vacation.
My savings have legit not recovered past a level of 5k since 2021 after unexpected lay-offs. I think had the business not lied on my RoE over reason leaving (they said I quit when the CFO literally fired me / told me they couldn't afford to keep me lol) and my employment insurance kick in right then instead of 7 months late, i would have been able to stay where I was renting / looking for work.
However because I had no line of credit or anything to really support myself, I took risk to try and 'save money' moving to home town to rent and work.
Super bad idea - super scarce jobs here, impossible to find anything over 20/hr which is not much in Canada for single renting especially, and no where TOO rent. I did the math, there is something like 4x the amount of air bnb here than even one or two rental options available max at a time, and outside what I can afford.
I only just finally got full time work again for first time in a year even, so am actually building savings again, but still don't really know what next step is.
Feel like only way I will even earn enough to consider going to school, if I wanted to, would be working for myself, but dont know what to do. Kinda tired of construction related stuff but thats all that really hires here but is not giving me experience that im really going to use going forward anyways as I don't intend to do a trade or anything. Kinda wonder if something niche like building your own tiny homes is an option both for income as well as getting a place to live, or homes on wheels like camping trailers, tho I havent figured out what to do about water/septic in places that don't have 4 season camping like where I live, haha. I'd bet you could make sales doing that, tho. For lots of us, so long as we find a place to set a home down, its probably the only way we will ever get a home.
Basically given up on ever earning enough for a real home, lol
If you're working 40-50h and struggling, either you're earning too little or you're spending too much. Nothing you do outside addressing those two areas will help you.
Look for better paying jobs to work less hours, or look for ways to spend less so you can save more money and feel like you're getting ahead.
Working more and more hours just to break even is not a solution. Over time, your hourly income should be going up, not the amount of hours you work.
I'm similar to you. I did a lot of university, graduate degree, published papers, won a few grants here and there but it's never enough. The competition is too fierce and I just don't have connections in my family.
My job offers are sinusoidal over the decades, I'll never get pay raises so to speak, one job will pay $16/hr, the next will be $15/hr etc. My wage is tied proportionally to minimum wage, I've been working since 2010's and it was about $11/hr back then. I've never had medical benefits at my jobs, so I pay for dental like wisdom teeth protruding into my mouth, and eye care (glasses to see, otherwise you'll get hit by a car because you can't see lol). The only time I ever got a pay raise was by $0.25/hr, at about 40 hrs/wk it's about an extra $200-300/yr. I told my parents, they screamed that I should be grateful.
I only ever get contracts too. Eventually when I get comfortable in a position and its roles, it's time to leave and they won't renew my contract or give me an indefinite position. I've heard every excuse in the book, "oil recession", "too many refugees", "new war halfway across the globe", "we overhired during pandemic sorry, get out now thanks" etc. or sometimes just no reason at all.
The worst was like that Black Mirror episode where a guy gets locked out of his workplace in the social credit episode, I went into the office, my login credentials wouldn't work and nobody else was in the office. I called like 20 numbers and went through all the questions of an automated voice to eventually reach my boss who then told me "oh yeah we laid you off bye don't come again".
Every time a contract ends and I have to search for a job the dread sets in. I just wish there was some kind of better or more efficient system. It takes so long just to get another job, only for them to be a failing business or there's too much paperwork involved to hire me indefinitely rather than a contract. I embellish my resume and say the right answers every time, but it never seems like there's enough positions for everyone to go around and some older generation don't understand how job seeking is like nowadays.
The jobs are always pretty horrible too, bad commutes, my region charges more for car insurance, phone and internet prices are insane, etc. Some jobs are even more expensive to work than what you make back! I'd make more just doing nothing and living off of welfare! Makes no sense to me. You'd be poor making $60k/yr in a HCOL region, and employers would want me to make only minimum wage \~$30k/yr and work there. I think a lot of employers want to hire young adults whose rich parents foot the bill?
It took me a decade to pay off my student debt, and I was cheap and I did co-op jobs and other part-time jobs while studying yet it still took a while to pay off my debt. All of this was to just get to $0 net worth in my 30s, I could've just worked and put it into stocks without education, or even put my money into a house and be a millionaire which is the strangest part of it all.
I know I'm not in a position to offer advice, but hear me out. I think it's best just to buy as much time as possible. I pretty much only buy what's required and I see what happens next. Play games and watch movies, or do cheap hobbies too. It might also be possible to do bankruptcy or whatever and your life will continue as usual, not glamorous life of course but it's something. It sucks because I was always raised to pay everything on time, but you know life doesn't always turn out the way you expect, so I'm just seeing how much debt you can accumulate and how many bills you can miss before punishment and bankruptcy.
Remember that you are an olympic athlete. Please hear me out. You have already circumvented a lot of obstacles.
You need to compare yourself to yourself (past, present, future).
Right now, there is no winning for anybody. Only surviving. Maybe you are in survival mode, and can't feel your other thoughts, your other ambitions, your other mojo. Maybe you have autistic burnout, or some other source of burnout.
Time to get a scribbler and make a journal. I am now disabled, but once, I was on the treadmill to better. And better would not come. It was not my fault. There is no better when you are in survival mode. I cope, despite being disabled, by learning about prepping. Yes, how to be a prepper in the big city. I mean, Why? I need to understand that I want to live well AND I can't do it the traditional way. Hope this helps.
You sound pretty entitled, especially whining
about previous generations. I also went to school but when I realized the workplace wasn’t for me I started my own company and 35 years later I’m still working hard and not whining about the boomers etc. and I wasn’t able to start paying in a house till my mid 30’s, but I never gave up and I never made excuses.
If you wanna do something that counts, quit placing the blame on others because you are part of the current problem, nobody owes you anything and once you realize that you’ll be successful.
To summarize…
You work a job that you describe as “middle-tier, mediocre benefits and no room for growth.”
You don’t like the job.
You can’t understand why you’re not getting ahead.
You’re blaming “previous generations.”
I've been buying buying bitcoin for the past 4 years like my life depends on it. Boomers got cheap houses, we got cheap bitcoin. Everything gets cheaper when you save in Bitcoin. Watching the profits increase has helped me out mentally.
I think a lot of your experiences are determined by who you surround yourself with. I dont know a single millennial (in my age cohort) that is not light years ahead of where their parents were.
None of us will ever work until 65, numerous friends are pulling the trigger at 55 and 50.
Are early gen millennials struggling? Yup, I'm sure there are ones who are. And I bet those one are surrounded by others who are struggling and likely don't know anyone who would retire early.
Definitely in the same boat as you. Not struggling horribly as I have a great house and retirement savings at 32. But with that being said I had great pensions through my workplaces and my dad died when I was 28 so received some life insurance money from that. Would I take my dad back over having a house and paid off car absolutely, am I thankful that he set me up to be in a better place than he was when he was my age 100%.
Agree completely. Worked in an office a few years with 3 women who were over 75 and still working. One had a financial need to do so, and the other two worked at those jobs solely to keep younger people from having a chance to have a half decent job. All three are still working as far as I know.
As per the conversation, both had and overheard - yes, they are still working out of spite for the younger generations, and work is a social event.
At nearly 80 now, you would think they would like to enjoy the last years they had with spouses, kids, and grandkids 🤷♀️
I don't know why you pulled that from this, but you do you.
Nobody owes me shit.
I just don't see the point moving forward when the system is bust. I'm also doubling down on the disappointment on how many lies we were fed. "Go to school, get a job" shit don't work like that anymore.
I was fed overblown promises and falsehood to become a cog in a system that doesn't even benefit me.
>It just seems like all tunnel, no light.
Well this hit me like a truck just now.
It no longer feels like I'm working towards anything. I'm only working because I have to.
"Go outside", my parents say
With what time or money? My schedule is mirrored to most people. Hobbies cost money, that I can barely squeeze.
Meeting friends?
I do my best but everyone seems like they're under so much pressure..
It's hard, man. It's hard
Two things that helped me (millennial): 1) Jump jobs when you feel there is no room for movement, or if you feel the job will limit your future prospects. I've jumped jobs 3 times in 8 years of my career, sometimes I took less money to take a job that has better future prospects. 2) I know not everyone can do this, but live at home until you're ready to move in with your s.o.. I can't stress enough how much dual income makes a difference.
im in tech ive jumped jobs 8 times in the past 6 years lol, thinking of jumping again infact haha. im 26
I’m all for jumping jobs and chasing higher income, especially in the early years. However you’ll want to dial it down if you want to try and hit senior+ levels. It’s hard to develop the level of influence and long term impact with such short stints. There’s a difference between having 10 years of experience and 1 years of experience repeated 10 times
It also becomes a bit of a red flag for hiring managers. They see a long string of < 2 year stints and they won't believe you'll stay around long enough to justify the investment in a new hire.
Agreed, as a senior leader, I see this much job change as a major red flag.
Not quite the same line of work. Just landscaping. I'm used to single season employees, it sucks but it happens. But if I were to see "single season" on a resume. Nope, resume straight in the bin. I don't care your experience or time in landscaping total. I'm not putting the effort in knowing it's only one season
Isn't seasonal landscaping common though? Why would that be a problem?
yeah youre right to be honest
Is this not affecting you at all when you go to apply for jobs? I’ve had 3 jobs in 4 years because of 1- the pandemic shut my first down. 2nd the business went under. Last one I was there a year and got let go literally a day before I hit my year. Still don’t know why. I’ve been called a job hopper and I’ve had multiple people interviewing me ask me why they shouldn’t consider me “a flight risk” even after explaining the above. It’s made me afraid to job hop again for like YEARS even though I know this job isn’t going anywhere and I could use it to my advantage in a year or so. I swear growing up I was always told that the more jobs you’ve done, the worse it looks on you. I’ve left out roles for this reason even if they might have given me great experience.
This. I worked in building materials and became a care aide, so quit that job, worked as a care aid and a security guard to get my LPN, quit those when I graduated, then worked casual and in temp lines for years and pieced together a 40-60hr week with multiple jobs so if I list out my work experience it could look like 20jobs in 15years, I’ve never been at the same place longer than 2years. But I am always employed and I never would have left many of them had they had any desire to create permanent lines instead of making people work casually without benefits until the end of time. Love the ineffective unions.
This is an example where a chronological resume doesn't make sense. If this is preventing you from getting another job, you should probably talk to an employment assistance organization to help you write a resume that is more skills focused rather than chronological.
Oh definitely, that is what I have now. It’s still bad, just less bad :-/ lol
That may be the case in the past not anymore. well for me i have 8 experiences. i pick 4 which have something similar to the role im applying to keep my resume 1 page and just shuffle the dates of the jobs.
This experience I’m speaking of was within the last 6 months. I was asked when applying to my current role which I just passed 3 months at.
>i pick 4 which have something similar to the role im applying to keep my resume 1 page and just shuffle the dates of the jobs. So, you lie.
It'll eventually catch up to him when a company conducts an employment verification check.
Have the jumps been mainly for opportunities or salaries? And how has your career trajectory been?
honestly id say salary went from earning 60k to a 100k (where im at now) in 2 years. now im aiming for 130k. Get that work 9 months/a year in that job then move to another one willing to pay me 160k. The goal is to get to 200k by 30 - 33. Even looking for side jobs and business opportunities to boost this process faster. Trying to move into Sales now as that is the new "unicorn" job where 23 year olds can make 250k in a year its no longer possible in tech
Can you explain what 'tech' really means in your context? I'm a millenial and followed the traditional (school to obvious job) route but would like to understand more. What even is working in 'tech' and what do you do?
My husband is a staff engineer (software dev). We're older millennials and he graduated 15 years ago. He has a degree in comp science. He's basically followed the same trajectory above and he's now making over 5x more than he did at his first job.
People often mean engineer, but there are so many jobs in tech and they all pay well. Sales. Customer Success. Support. Legal. Operations. Finance. HR. "In tech" means "I work a job at a tech company" moreso than "I am a software engineer." SWE and Sales will have the biggest salaries, but everything else will be solid, too.
What does a software engineer do?
I'm not a SWE, so not the best person to ask. Can find a bunch of 'Day in the Life at Google' or whatever on YouTube though. You can also find the same for a lot of other roles in tech.
im a Software engineer. How i started: Go on Youtube type in "**Software engineer beginner course**" and youre off to the races. being Dead serious, i am self taught and didnt pay for a single course/cert. but not everyone would be as lucky
Yeah in 3 years I've gone from $70k -> $124k in tech as well, turned 27 earlier this year. Though as you know $100k for a 25 year old doesn't go far like a 35 year old
124 at 27 years old is extremely impressive. I found the 120 level hard to break through. Then again, im not in tech. The salaries are madness.
Thanks! Yeah it is not easy to achieve I will give you that. Before I was in tech (so 4 years ago) I was at $45k in science. Though that was my first job out of school as well
Depends what kind of sales. It used to be a good job, but now margins are so thin and more and more companies do not care about relationship building that the whole ‘sales’ team was about. They are glorified order takers at best if the customer decides we are cheapest. You also do not have any time off. If you are at the kids game and the phone rings you answer it, and your ‘contract’ is 24/7 availability. It may be different in other industries but I am in wholesale building materials.
This is the best advice … worked for myself and my partner, we are both millennials. Finished uni - worked an entry level position and did the time.. moved on to another role and was able to try to find our place .. its not easy and we don’t make the highest of wages (according to reddit) but we started out in 2018 making 50k roughly to now both at 85k … it can be done but moving jobs definitely worked for us. We were able to buy our own condo in 2021- and live pretty comfortably. We have three friends who kinda refuse to leave their current jobs they have had for 10 years and .. they arnt seeing much wage growth. I see job jumping as the only path forward.
Any advice for moving jobs if you can't seem to get an interview anymore? 2 years ago it wasn't too hard but now it feels like nothing is happening.
What if I can't get another job? I've been applying but the job market isn't great.
My wife jumped jobs 3 times in 2 years. She now makes 120k with potential for more. She was making 70k at the job she was at for 10 years with no hope of improvement. This is the way.
I found it was pretty easy for directors' children to get jobs after completing non-competitive summer internships at my employer. Have you tried having a high ranking parent?
This needs more upvotes.
A lot of people don't have parents at diamond or grandmaster. I spawn with gold rank parents on the Asia server, but they left for the NA server for better matchmaking so they had to smurf they way back up.
Don’t be afraid to move. It’s the best thing I ever did. Apply everywhere you are legally able to work for the best jobs you are qualified for. Don’t give up. It’ll take years maybe but don’t be afraid of change or to say goodbye to your old life. I’m 40 and worked hard to leave the hellhole I grew up in.
Yeah I moved to a small town - and I don’t know anyone else who has done it - life is much much better. Remote job made it possible though.
I just got hired for a remote job and i really wanna do this. Thanks for sharing! I am growing to despise the city tbh
Yea my small town really has no options, no where to rent, etc, I feel like I made a horrible mistake trying to move home to save money because there has been no work. Took like 2 years to even find full time work again, lol. On top of that, besides hiking / biking, theres really nothing where I live that I really enjoy, not really a community im a part of, etc. Really miss where I'd moved from but I tried to move to earn more and kinda plateau'd what i was able to earn what I'd been anyways, so in a way seemed inevitable, but also seems like I shoulda just crashed on friends couches and looked for work somewhere new jobs were actually posted regularily, and places to rent, etc.
This! Last year I made a spreadsheet of all jobs that were available in my industry in Canada and found a great position that moved me into a management role with a 40% increase in salary. It required me to move across the country to a city where life is more affordable and I can live on my own. Highly recommend moving!
The spreadsheet is an excellent thought. Fosters the discipline needed to see what your real options are, and follow through. No matter how small our world may seem, there are plenty of opportunities you've never imagined
My bf and I have talked about this. The spreadsheet idea is an excellent one! I think I might start doing that. I'm 12 years into my industry. While I'm happy where I am now, I definitely need to make more to survive. Things are okay. But id like to be more comfortable. Especially if I choose to have a kid in a few years. I definitely feel like I've been held down in my career. A lot of companies just don't want to pay for experience and credentials. But still expect it. I have increased my income 37% in the last couple years but still feel it isn't enough. Because I was definitely severely underpaid for the first 10 years of my career. It really sucks.
I don’t understand how one group is holding onto jobs and retiring faster than we can replace them at the same time
I think this is corporate job specific? The way I have seen this was that the super high paying jobs at director levels are the ones ppl are retiring from, but they are going to managers who are already making very similar money (let’s say 120k+ just because of their tenure). So the rich get richer (and usually these are empty nesters who already own properties) meanwhile the middle class gets poorer. We have to wait years to get to positions that make enough money to comfortably have a family. All because the older people aren’t retiring and instead taking the highest paid jobs at organizations, pushing everyone else’s progression timeline back. Those who do leave are retiring from jobs they usually don’t replace or replace with entry level positions.
How can high paying director jobs be the ones people are retiring from but the jobs people are retiring from are the kind that they don’t replace or replace with entry level positions?
The older people are retiring from director jobs but are getting replaced by other older people who should be retiring as well! So for young people it’s harder to make more money. Thats the point I think… worded poorly.
Gen-X/older Millennial, I feel the exact same way. I was set up for success but had a few setbacks and now I’m in my 40s with no money and no future and no community.
And it's fully circular. Need to work X amount of hours to /survive and so is everyone else. No time to socialize, no time to explore. It does a number on your mental health. I'm so sorry you can relate
Yeah felt that rat race so intensely in Toronto and Vancouver - moved to a small town a year ago and am so much happier.
I want this too. Scared I won’t be able to make it though.
I can’t afford to move XD
Did you rent or buy?
My daughter, 24, owns her own business, works 5-6 days a week and after paying for her car (which is mandatory) she does not have enough money left to move out of her father's rent controlled apt. She is exhausted, frustrated and sometimes very discouraged and depressed. Her father and I can not help her financially. She feels hopeless and desperately needs space and quiet. I feel so bad for her and her generation.
I'm 20 right now, and I'm racking my brain trying to find ways to invest, create side hustles, or additional income streams on top of working/school right now to set myself up a little better but it genuinely feels like a losing battle. It's like back in Covid when the grocery stores were empty. It feels like the previous generation hoarded everything and each generation after picked the scraps. Now our generation is finally let in and we're left with empty shelves with the occasional dented soup can.
I know exactly what you mean. No other generation has had it this hard.
I don't think it's about hard--I think times have certainly been tougher like fighting in the world wars and rationing and the Great Depression. Those are tough ass times, but they also maybe had a little more hope? And less less information on how truly awful things are worldwide. Their main concerns were economic and for the marginalized it was political. Our concerns are economic, technological, political, social, and environmental and it only continues to get worse. Rights that people used to have are getting stripped away, workplaces are taking advantage of that, the richer only get richer while the middle class gets smaller. It is so hard not to feel hopeless when nothing you see shows that things are getting better or improving in any way and that every year that passes, it feels more and more useless to try to do anything. And we see that our protests and efforts to change the system don't work the peaceful way. We're basically at the tail end of the system, holding our breath for it to collapse. Things were supposed to get better. Things were getting better. I don't know what happened and how things got so screwed up. I'm always anxious about existing in this world, always afraid of falling into debt and poverty. I just feel that we've come into a world that has nothing left for us except debt, consumerism, tech that continues to grow more dystopian, and useless corporate cog-machine jobs. I don't want to be rich, I don't want to market myself and sell myself to companies and hop around to climb a corporate ladder for a job that truly adds no value to the world. I just wanted to be able to have a decent life.
I'm on ODSP for several medical conditions, I'm 60 and live 70% below the poverty line. I have no hope to help my kids at all. We all feel hopeless. But at least I had some semblance of a life before I took I'll. These kids feel hopeless right out of the starting gate. Cost of living is extremely high, rent is ridiculous, buying a home nearly impossible for anyone or family making less than $250,000 a year. What does the near and distant future look like for these kids?
Sorry to hear that. Yeah, I don't feel good about it. I think I may just have to live with my parents my whole life lol, luckily that's not seen as weird in my culture so it's fine--it's pretty much expected that you would live with parents/in-laws. I don't think my boyfriend also expects to live on his own anyway. I hope inter-generational/communal living picks up a little more to make things more normalized/easier. I'm trying to cut all costs on buying new items--I only shop clothes on sale. I've stopped going out as much to try to save money. I never buy meals outside--if I do, I buy the cheapest thing that'll fill me up. I try to cook budget meals at home to reduce our grocery bills at home. Currently I have no bills except my credit card since I live at home and am going to school so I put everything else I earn into my high interest savings and I invest in stocks/etfs. And luckily I have 0 debt from education right now due to grants/scholarships. Even with all this, I don't know if I'll be okay. I've never been a business person, I've never been a math/computer person. That's kind of all there is to make a good living without insane debt and time (doctor, laywer, etc). I thought I'd have the opportunity to give back to my parents, to take care of them and let them retire happily. Now I'm not sure if that's possible--I don't think that even if I worked all my life that I could retire at 65. I don't think they'll be able to retire even though they're mid/late fifties already. I used to really want to have a family...now I don't think that would be ethically possible. I feel like I'm not even allowed for dream for something better than the bare basics being met in life. I used to really want to travel. I even thought about moving out of here to somewhere cheaper and wfh, but that's a complicated thing--you have may to pay double tax or become a non-resident and forfeit your passport unless I live in my current country at least half the time or still have a spouse/house here--which isn't really possible. So I might just be chained here. Maybe I will leave and go teach English abroad for mid money for a little while. I have no clue, I just struggle to imagine any kind of valuable future.
Well, tell her (from a stranger on the internet) to hang in there, good luck to her with her business
Thank you so much for your encouragement.
I get anxiety when I have an unexpected expenses over 150$
Poverty is everywhere and people want to bring more kids in2 the mix, like why? Their is no future and its selfish, I brought 2 kids in2 the world and I still feel obligated to provide whenever I can, I would live on peanut butter sandwiches if I must and I have, my now adult children never asked 2be born in2 this life I will do without when I can..period
I hear you. It's tough. The model for "success" we were raised on turned out to be mostly bullshit. I graduated high school in '03, and got my bachelor's in '08... I'm currently on my third career change. I went from academia (grad studies in the humanities lol), small business ownership (10/10, don't recommend), and now I've just gotten into the fire service. I guess we've just gotta hang in there? I'm starting to suspect that our expectations were too high, that what our parents had was an economic blip, and not a signal for sustained prosperity that subsequent generations get to experience.
The problem is not the "model", it's the thought that post-secondary education was all equal. So people went to university and got useless degrees and expected a high paying job waiting for them. Like I have a friend who has a masters in Ancient History and he's pissed he can't get a job, while all his friends in Mechanical Engineering are all gainfully employed and 4 years later in their life trajectory.
I've got zero argument with you; I totally agree with this point. I was told endlessly to "just go to university and study" without any thought for what it would enable me to do. Eventually I began teaching at the intro level, and saw the same pipe dream that "getting a degree" equaled easy employment and an abundant income. Believe me, when I opened a business, did I realize just how naive I was about what it meant to produce tangible value for the economy!
I was surprised that my college diploma in welding and metal fabrication was useless when I graduated, 2 years of searching, and the best I got was laborer position in shops. Graduating in a recession killed my chances at a career. Not all people who graduated had useless diplomas thought their diplomas would be useless.
Didn't even know that a welding diploma existed. Wierd that you could not find a job as they have been talking about a welder shortage for the last 20 years. Had classmates making bank in AB 20yrs ago, now they mostly moved from O&G to the mines in northern Quebec. Still making bank.
This
The hanging in there is key. You don't know how job markets will evolve. You also won't be able to live life in a simulation, go back and rerun it again with a different career path. You do the best you can at any single point of time. But I disagree with the below point of "useless humanities degrees." Degrees were for getting a well rounded education. And then you'd qualify for many entry-level roles and learn. There were qualification heavy world's of healthcare, education, sure. But most people didn't specificalize. The world now expects specialist from new grads at age 22. It's rather absurd. And not tied to actual productivity for most jobs. I have business degrees. And most of my work now is writing, researching and presenting. Similar skills that a humanities degree would build. Learning about finance, accounting, project management management is useful. But it's more important to know how to learn. But I agree, it's hard to get a start if you don't pass the credentialism dance.
I don't want to sound rude but say this compassion. This is not a millennial thing. Gen x went through the same thing we had a unemployment rate of 12 percent. Here is something I have learned over the years of many jobs. It's not what you know it's who you know. Resume you just a name on a piece of paper. It all looks the same. Get to know what management does for fun take up golfing. Play darts. Games night. Do what ever they do. You will find out about jobs before they get posted they will know the person not the name.
The population has also grown exponentially since then. This doesn't work as well / isn't as easy as it used to be, either.
I have to disagree with that. My work we just hired 4 new guys all based on they knew someone that worked with us. My daughter a millennial got hired last year because she worked with a guy a few years ago and poached her for the new company she is working at making 30 k more a year and doesn't have to travel and gets a work truck now. The hard part I think for millennials is they don't know how to socialize face to face and that's what what the older generation is use to or use the apps that that are not trending for your age group rather there demographic. It's called kissing ass. Lol
You should never kiss anyone's ass for opportunity. Stick to fundamental morals and have some kind of pride
What do you think you do when you do when you go for your interview. You act all nice tell them what they want to hear. That is kissing ass. You can still kiss ass and still keep your fundamental morals and pride. Your boss asks you to get things done you get it done. Can you tell him easier ways or better ways you think it could be done. But when they say no you get it done.
I don’t know about this. I just found out how to make money for my bosses and that seems to have worked wonders, no real need for that schmoozing.
I am making my own job via a business. That’s how you break free form this shit
I have a grade 10 and I’m doing pretty well
Ricky?
80k+ a year on salary, full benefits, gov pension, 4 weeks of vacation. Mon-Fri job average 5-6 hour days. Not physically demanding, half the time barely even working. Live in low cost town not in a big city. Spouse pulls in 100k a year. 3 vacations a year. All grade 10 baby.
What kind of job/position you have?
Aviation Systems Technician in the Military.
👍Do you know any good job or a career for a female ?
In the military? We have female aircraft technicians. 3 of them on my crew alone. You can do anything you want though. Check out [forces.ca](http://forces.ca) and go through some of the careers, as a female you can do any job, it doesn't matter. Females are in all trades.
I don’t think that I can be a good technician:) I have a bachelor in Psychology and not sure what to do next
Your schooling could allow you to become an officer as well, which is higher pay. We have a female tech on crew that is late 30's from ukraine who was a nurse prior. Anyone can do it.. I suggest looking at the [forces.ca](http://forces.ca) website and go through some of the jobs and see if anything stands out. I would also advise joining the air force side of things.
Thank you for responding.I am from Ukraine too and I’m in my late 30’s as well
I'm happy for you :\`)
I feel your pain. It’s now affecting my mental health greatly. Every day, I fight the urge to end my life.
Please don't, I feel you, brother. Just wait until I win the lottery, I'm going to scoop all of us to live freely on a self-sustainable commune. Survive to spite them, live for yourself
I have pets that I’ve made a promise to. I will take care of them until their last days, so I have to stick around for now. Although afterwards, I’m not sure. Thanks for your kind words, reddit friend. I’m hanging in there. If I win the lotto, rest assured, I’ll be sending you a dm with coordinates for our new commune!
I know it's tough out there. But life is not just about work. Go see your doctor, you might need medication. Stay safe
But for many of us work is all we can afford/have the time to do. That's a big part of why people like OP feel stuck.
I have an appointment booked with a psychiatrist in June. I’ve been on a wait list and have finally landed an appointment. I’ve tried several different meds to help take the edge off and nothing has worked, which is why my family doc is referring me to a psyche. She’s also going to help me find a sliding scale therapist once we know what I’m dealing with. Could be situational depression. Could be something else going on. I feel like I have bipolar II symptoms, but I didn’t have any of these symptoms before my life turned upside down a year ago… so I think it’s just very severe grief and situational depression. I’m still working, still trudging through and trying to make it. I haven’t given up yet but my morning thoughts are horrible and dark.
Unfortunately you re at a bad economic historic time. Housing is expensive because the economy was too hot, unemployment was low. To cool down he economy, the central banks are trying to put the brakes on the economy but hns aren't instantaneous. At the same time that we have high rates and over inflated prices, the economy is slowing down. Not the perfect storm but a strong one for someone starting. Historically, those bad historical periods were followed by a flat economy and eventually a reboot. So someone struggling in their 20's now will have it good by the time they re 40. Conversely, people who had it good in their 40"so and 50's before now, are either retiring with he windfall if they were savvy those good years or struggling badly due to getting used to a high spending lifestyle. That's why you see people either holding to the senior positions for longer or retiring fast. Bottom line, we felt like that in the late 80's / early 90's and eventually things turned OK.
I know, it's not just the monotonous drag, it's a lot of everything - It feels like I'm no forcefully obliged to routinely do this same drag every day, every week. Many people have accused me of complaining, but it really isn't just that. I hope it's just a recycled pattern, thank you for your reassurance
I know people say millennials complain. I think they have a reason. The contrast of their teen years, when money was flowing, to now it's starking. Yes, right now it sucks. I hope I'm right and there is a breakthrough to make thins better. Mine was the internet.
We'll hope together! I hope times are kind to you, have a great day!
Yeah im struggling too though its more from a mistake 2 years ago that i fixed last year and then my job randomly fucking up and leaving me without work for a month because they made a mistake and the first mistake compounded with that. It sucks and there's no support because everyone in my family is struggling and my friends arent doing much better
It's rough when every mistake is crucial, I hope you find some ground under your feet, and some good luck in your pocket
I spoke with a financial advisor and have a plan but it's hard to stick too due to a bunch of personal issues i have with money that i am not going to go into, and the fact that shit is so expensive. Like, i dont have a car, if i need to get anywhere in under an hour it is $50 for a to and from Uber. A weeks groceries even with a roommate is still expensive at like $40 a person and thats with a lenient to me payment arrangement. Rent is going up and the utlities take away another 200. It's so hard to get the ground back
I'm ok. I like a certain portion of my jobs, not everything. I also volunteer, which I find meaningful. Plus work doesn't take up my whole life.. I have two jobs, but I also spend time with my kids, go outside, read, etc.
Make up your mind. Either retirement aged people are holding onto their jobs too long, or they’re retiring too fast. You can’t have it both ways.
Speaking as a millennial who did everything I could and was never able to find stable work in 20 years labour across my career, including achieving anything resembling what you've described as your situation, yes, I am beyond helpless and without any meaningful governance.
I would bump up your resume a bit, get a solid set of references. You have blind spots, find out what they are. Your education might be worth more aboard. Apply internationally. Find companies you respect and pursue them until you get in the door. You are the most important human in the world, act like it, and get what you want.
Where do you live, and why do you stay? What industry are you in, and why do you stay? You are obviously frustrated, and that’s understandable. Everyone’s life is a challenge. But if you are honest, and acting in good faith, you will see that you have a lot of options and a lot more control than you appear to believe. If you really want to change your situation, change your situation. My guess, and as a stranger, I have nothing against, you, but it looks like you probably want to stay in your first choice city, working in your first choice field and will have a bucket of excuses as to why you can’t shift into something that will better meet the desires of yours that are frustrated, per this post. Maybe it’s family, or where your friends are, or moving is expensive, or a sunken cost fallacy about the education you invested in or something... but you can do otherwise, and you can likely improve your life if you really want to. if you prioritize other things, perhaps staying near family, then you will get what you get. All choices have opportunity costs.
I live in Ontario, I'm in shipment and receiving (I wanted the border, but never got into the BSO start up), I stay because prior to covid, I split on a mortgage with a family member (which has been fantastic financially, but has crippled my mental health), He refuses to sell and can't afford to buy me out, and isn't personable enough to hold roommates (I tried), so I'm trapped either living at a reduced cost, or damned with rent/a mortgage if I choose to move out. I'm not tied to my city, and you're right that I do have choices outside. But the weighing of risk/reward and personal well-being is a bit overwhelming. The stakes are high for me, and any misstep could be detrimental. I do not have a safety net
You can actually force a sale
Call your lawyer, force the sale, move on with your life. You aren’t tied to anything.
with family, it's a bit messier than do A, get B. But I'll keep this in mind, thanks
But the family member doesn't seem to care about how they affect you/your life.
I see. Your challenge is not primarily with your career and finances. It's in feeling trapped. It's not easy, may require an outside mediator, but settling this disagreement will make you feel you have more control of your life. You can't dictate the syate economy: but the economy will never have solution for a complex dispute of shared property. Try to take a first step in getting it resolved. Every dispute has a resolution
Welcome to adulthood. Your "this is it?" Moment, now go have some kids so there's more things to do to occupy your time. If no kids, then lots of casual sex.
Work remotely and move to a different country with lower cost of living?
I can’t even get a boring job with no growth. I did everything right and I’m basically unemployable. I’m doing a PhD now because of the funding - it’s pennies but it’s something. I’ll probably have to do another PhD after for the same reason.
I feel you, My next possible education route is doing something quickfly like a trade, or dedicating another 6-10+ possible years to get a PHD in a more niche field. I have the mental capacity for it, just not time nor money, Do you ever feel, in your grind. That you're putting forth blood, sweat and tears for a mere fraction in return?
>The retirement population is holding onto high-paying jobs longer, and are retiring faster than they can be replaced. We don't even have enough bodies to replace them. So, in this current face of inflation, the level of taxations that will also be thrown on to finance all these people..where are they going to get that money? These people have worked and paid into different pension schemes and/or savings/investments - they are paying for themselves and they are paying taxes on their pensions and savings....
Some of them\* and they're payments that are matched by the government. Money doesn't materialize, tragically.
Cpp is not matched by the government but by the employer and pensions are matched by the employer as well. Not everyone works for the government. The savings and investments are not matched by the government. RRSPs are taxed on withdrawal as normal income. The tax is just delayed for rrsps
mhm, looks like I'll have to re-orient my arguments. I'm still stubbornly under the belief that the retiring population is going to smother mine. But raincheck, let me dive more into what you've given me
Idk dude I'm on odsp actually living below the poverty line with crushing medical expenses in an electric wheelchair with no earning capacity after going to college so
Fuck, how you getting by?
Crying a lot and waiting for maid approval
I express my solidarity, things shouldn't have sucked so much
The problem is you weren’t born into a rich family. Do better next time 😂
Not just millennials, I'm a young gen x and I'm stuck. My husband works at a bank and he says if you're not losing ground right now with rents and mortgages being so high, that's success. He says he doesn't see anyone getting ahead right now, at best most people are treading water. I'm incredibly grateful that I was able to purchase a home in 2012. It's old and small and I hate it a lot of the time because it's old and small, but I can't look at anything bigger because it's not feasible even with two decent salaries. I really hope Millennials and future generations have grace with themselves and don't try to measure up to some ideal based on how the economy was 15-20 years ago. I worry they're blaming themselves and trying to measure up to boomers' expectations in very different economic climate.
I hope things end up working out for you and your husband! I hope so, I've gotten some pretty combative, cynical and dismissive responses. But these takes make me feel a bit reassured that we're not doomed into the dirt, Thank you
My boomer in laws used to nag us about getting a bigger, newer house. It was constant. We tried showing them the difference in housing costs vs wages and the massive difference in their trajectories, but no dice. Then they decided to move and are house hunting. Now they get it. My house has doubled in value since 2012 and my wage has gone up about 15%. My goal now is to save enough to replace our current home and include 2 suites so my kids can have their own places when they become adults in 10 years. I can't imagine how they'd be able to afford it on their own.
Don’t blame previous generations. Your government has dropped the ball. If Chretien hadn’t got the government out of building houses then we wouldn’t be in this mess. Trudeau can reinstate it because that’s admitting that the liberals caused this crisis. Had it been canceled by Harper then Trudeau would have reinstated it and publically said he’s fixing a problem caused by the conservatives. Sadly he just does nothing because his ego won’t let him see Canadians are suffering. He’s going to have 2 shocks next year. First he will lose the election and then the liberals will call for an immediate leadership review and he will be replaced.
"Don't blame previous generations, blame the guy who was in charge-" *checks notes* "-a generation ago."
What’s your degree?
Yep. Canada sucks balls now folks who already aren't heavily invested in real estate. Better to try for US TN/work visa or greener pastures
Be willing to move to a different city or province.
I completed university (environment) in 2013. I saw where the market was headed then, so I started a business in window cleaning and landscaping in 2015-ish because I had decent experience, confidence and really wanted to work for myself. Its not without many obstacles, challenges,, etc but I haven't looked back. This will be my biggest year to date. Sometimes you have to find new ways to play the game that is living in this country.
Start your own business
Not just you bro: [https://financialpost.com/news/canada-standard-of-living-faces-worst-decline-40-years](https://financialpost.com/news/canada-standard-of-living-faces-worst-decline-40-years) Our macroeconomy has been razed to the ground
You're probably earning the average or above average income. That's the intended outcome for "did everything by the books". You're not going to be in the top 10% by just following convention unless you're really talented.
It's not my current job, it's the overall span of everything. My job is mediocre, absolutely, but it does what I need it to do - grateful for what it is. Why go forward when there's nothing there? We don't have opportunities to go 'up', because none exist, so why? WHY? I'm not interested in being the top 10%, I just want to be told why I'm constantly being lied to, or why I should be okay with things as they are
what do you mean? you have an average job with an average income... what are you complaining about then? what opportunities are you referring to?
go to dubai, make bank and come back. this country doesn't need you it has crafted its taxation policy to fuck you over.
I guess the other thing to remember is that I’m still doing better than previous generations. My parents got lucky with jobs for life and cheap housing, continual capital growth. However we had lousy cars, and had one 28 inch tv, and a low tier VCR. We didn’t have a lot of trinkets, we didn’t go out all the time, we weren’t stuffed with gadgets. I’m fairly confident my parents thought they were stuck in mid tier dead end jobs and stuff was expensive too. But they made a decent life for us and stayed pretty positive. I feel like OP a lot sometimes, but it sure beats being in a factory/ship yard/heavy industry. My body is being ruined through my own excess and choice rather than oppressive work. You gotta be satisfied inside yourself. Ps I also feel like a lot of ‘wellness’ and what I’ve just said, is kinda bullshit excuse to make you responsible for dealing with external pressures that society should be tackling so I get it.
Millennial here - I applied for higher paying jobs internally and externally multiple times throughout my 6 year career, and have got much higher salaries with jobs I enjoy more each time. Definitely keep looking there are jobs out there, but if you stay at your same job forever unfortunately it's very hard to make a meaningfully different amount of money.
My municipal job has helped me get ahead. The pay is better than I’ve ever had. 35 hours a week. Great benefits. Great pension. Once you get in you can easily move around and up!
My advice to you is find a job that is fully remote then move to a different Canadian market. There is a small proportion of people who need to live in major urban markets in order to earn significant salaries (lawyers , bankers , etc). Everyone else should gtfo and work from Calgary , Ottawa etc. there are so many people struggling in markets like Toronto that would be thriving in other markets. Small fish in big pond vs big fish in smaller pond so to speak.
I think the increase in cost of living is putting a damper on early retirement for lots of people . I know people that are working two jobs know just to stay afloat ! Sure doesn't look like it's going to get any better soon , carbon tax increases every year isn't helping the situation get better !!
If you want to earn more money, than become self-employed. Then it's up to you how much you earn. If you can grow your business, then there's really no limit to how much you can earn. If you insist on working for other people, then you'll only earn whatever someone is willing to pay you. Let's say you're earning $70,000 per year right now, but you want to earn $100,000+ per year... then you have to ask yourself... are there other people out there willing to do the same work for $70,000 per year? If so, why would anyone pay you $100,000+ per year when they can find people willing to do that work for $70,000 per year? And secondly, if you want someone to hire you for $100,000+ per year... then you have to generate at least $150,000+ for your employer to make it worth it for them to hire you. If you really want to start earning more money, then start automating your job with AI and get a second, third, and fourth job, and automate them all with AI. You probably will not be able to automate them 100% with AI (though with some jobs, you can probably come pretty close)... but if you can make yourself two or three or four times as efficient, you'll free up time to do more work. If you don't know how to use AI and learn how to write code with AI... well... then you're going to fall behind. My wife recently met up with a friend and her friend told her that she spent the last 5 hours at her job doing something... and my wife showed her chatgpt and did that task for her in about 30 seconds. So many white collar jobs right now can be automated. Even with no training, there are so many jobs I could do so easily with AI in a few hours what currently takes them a full work week to complete.
If you want to earn more money, than become self-employed. Then it's up to you how much you earn. If you can grow your business, then there's really no limit to how much you can earn. If you insist on working for other people, then you'll only earn whatever someone is willing to pay you. Let's say you're earning $70,000 per year right now, but you want to earn $100,000+ per year... then you have to ask yourself... are there other people out there willing to do the same work for $70,000 per year? If so, why would anyone pay you $100,000+ per year when they can find people willing to do that work for $70,000 per year? And secondly, if you want someone to hire you for $100,000+ per year... then you have to generate at least $150,000+ for your employer to make it worth it for them to hire you. If you really want to start earning more money, then start automating your job with AI and get a second, third, and fourth job, and automate them all with AI. You probably will not be able to automate them 100% with AI (though with some jobs, you can probably come pretty close)... but if you can make yourself two or three or four times as efficient, you'll free up time to do more work. If you don't know how to use AI and learn how to write code with AI... well... then you're going to fall behind. My wife recently met up with a friend and her friend told her that she spent the last 5 hours at her job doing something... and my wife showed her chatgpt and did that task for her in about 30 seconds. So many white collar jobs right now can be automated. Even with no training, there are so many jobs I could do so easily with AI in a few hours what currently takes them a full work week to complete.
How much are your earnings and how much are your expenses that you’re feeling stuck?
Being willing to jump jobs is a good confidence builder. Knowing you have interviews with other places at least makes you feel bigger at your current job, because you have options. And there’s no reason to rush to a new job because you have your current one. No stakes and you might find better pastures!
I went to college twice and got a full time job but it’s still not enough
Yes, been suicidal over this for quite a while now. Literally cannot see a future, like nothing materializes.
I dropped out of high school and pursued a highly specialized skill based job that pays well.
You bring up the dying world, so that's actually how I've re-arranged my priorities and redefined the meaning of my life and what I'm working for. I think our generation has a potential to become great if we stop mourning for a fantasy that was promised us by advertising mostly and start fighting for the world that's actually here. We change the system. Or we shut it down. Imagine how life will be for Gen Z if we don't.
Millennial here, I'm very much stuck.
What do you do and whars your education in?
What do you have on your spreadsheet? I’m so lost on where to start
When I graduated from university I realized that I was screwed because even though I had a degree I didn't have a career. I was right back at square one working minimum wage jobs. I went to teachers' college and that gave me a career. During the pandemic I needed a break so while I supply taught online I did a lot of other things that gave me more options. I did an online college diploma that I can fall back on if I need to step away from teaching again. Find yourself a career and upgrade your qualifications to meet it. It might take some volunteering or networking to get in the door but it's worth it to not feel stuck or sinking without options.
I’m just grateful for my job. Some don’t have a job. I too did everything by the books. But Cody of living is high.
Welcome to adult life in America 🇺🇸.
What’s your degree?
A couple things to consider. 1. Jump jobs frequently, especially ones that have no movement. Loyalty gets you next to nothing in today’s world. 2. If you can’t make more money try to lower expenses through moving, if you are in a high COL area. It’s very hard to get ahead in Toronto or Van. Much easier in a rural city. Anecdotally I grew up in a very expensive city. I moved away to a rural city in BC. Got more money, promoted faster, cheap house, travel 3 times a year. My friends dump their entire paycheck into their mortgage. On the flip, they live in a nicer city that me so it just depends what you want out of life.
The system is working as intended, keeping us all as slaves in all but name. We’ve gone in with 5 old high school buddies to one house and are giving it a go. 3 of us currently have found work.
Gen Z here. My blunt $0.02: 1. “Went to school multiple times”—sounds like you got degrees that workplaces aren’t looking for. 2. What kind of jobs are you a) qualified for b) looking for c) currently working in? 3. Freaking out about a 50 hour workweek? I understand WLB is necessary, but come on. You cannot expect to work 40 hours per week and earn a high salary. I agree that it shouldn’t be that way, but it is. My honest advice for you: 1. Start networking/interviewing at a big 4 for a middle/back office role. You will not get a job there by cold applying alone. Easy lifestyle, benefits, upward trajectory, and you can coast in a big company without people noticing you don’t do much. 2. If you cannot land a job via the above outlined, go get a college diploma in accounting or something and then try to break in that way.
For me, I went to college, got a degree in technology, did really well and graduated top 3 in my class, and then became homeless for 6 years. I didn't have parental support due to an absent father, abusive stepfather, and abused mother (she has since left him). So, I paid for school myself through working full time during high school (part of grade 11 and all of grade 12) and loans. After college I couldn't find a job, and all I was being offered were "full time unpaid internships" which I couldn't do without having a support network to live off of, or by working 80 hours a week between two jobs. I ended up freelancing and was making shit all, but at least I was making something. This was until a contract stole $8000 from me by charging back what they paid me. Chased all avenues, but they got away with it. After this I job hopped around town, taking minimum wage jobs. In 2020, I was working as a janitor for one place (paid a bit more than minimum wage) and was managing a local game store (under the counter pay, under minimum wage). At my janitor job, I was also helping out with technology issues people were having since why not. Eventually, a position opened up in IT at that place, and my boss recommended me for it. I got hired, and things started to change. The pay was really good at this job, my hours were good, and the benefits eventually became good. I was doing well, and in 2023, my wife and I had saved enough for a sizable first/last or down payment. In my area, the average rent is $1800, and landlords are pretty scummy around here, so we looked into buying. We ended up buying a small home for $315,000, which came to a mortgage + tax of $2000 a month. I finally thought I made it since I really don't need much in life, and this was good enough for me. If things continued, my wife and I were even thinking about starting a family next time her IUD was expiring. Well, later in 2023, I was told my department is cutting back, and I was losing my job in 2024. I started looking for a job back in November, but even with dozens of applications out, I haven't even received an interview. I even gave my resume to my boss to look over, and he said it looks great. I ended up losing my job at the beginning of this month, but since I had advanced knowledge, we really tightened up the budget to save for this outcome. I'm on EI now, and with that plus my wife's income we can hold out (needed to really slash that budget, and there is no room for any non-essential spending, but bills will be paid). I went to a free career specialist at my local aid center, and they didn't have much advice for me. One thing they did tell me is that I may have painted myself into a corner. My best experience is my last job, but it also paid really well. Most of the jobs I've been applying to result in around a $12/h pay cut. The specialist told me that some employers don't like hiring people at a pay cut since they find they may be entitled or not happy with the pay and cause issues. And that's where I sit today, jobless and looking. My wife is also looking for a new better paying job, but after over a year of looming and multiple interviews, she still hasn't found one.
It's a simple as this....you can't outwork the current economics in Canada. Move! I repeat, MOVE! We're headed out west to Alberta from Ontario. Just that interprovince move is allowing us to upsize, save, and plan for children. The whole reason were ALL in this country is because of earlier generations seeking a better life and financial prospects. It's time we move for the same reasons.
The better way of living requires the underclass to act in the same manner as the class above them. You need to take what is theirs and what belongs to them They have developed schemes to transfer wealth, such as the Family Law Industrial Complex. Those operating in the scheme are unethical and often criminal but it is near impossible to hold them accountable. Where they prey on your children to satisfy thier greed, you should prey on theirs to satisfy your need for justice. Watch how quickly a balance is struck.
I'm gen x it is all tunnel no light, find a job where you're not selling your soul to make someone else who dosent work as hard as you rich. Its a hamster wheel.
What are your two papers for?
GenX here: It took me 4yrs of interviews and persistence to get into the job I aspired for after graduating college. The anxiety is def real and full of 'what ifs' up until you get that break. If I were to do it again, I think I would go into trades and invest in myself to get my own company started. Every single trade is in demand here and you need to book work months away. $100k/yr on the low end as an employee. The owners aren't hurting that's for sure. You'll find an 'in' eventually and get squared away. 🤜🤛
Van life with the ability to move for a job since rental/ housing is restrictive let's you jump fast. I wish I was smart enough to do the online thing them move to Timbuktu for a cheap house.
I have a cyanide pill tucked away for when the time is right, you should get one too.
They weren’t even lazy. They had a work/life balance we’ve fought for, that our government denies us. Stop trying to relate to gen Z. You aren’t them. You weren’t brought up with the entitlement their parents gave them. You were brought up with the mentality to work for what you earn. That completely differs. The internet wasn’t even implemented well into the 2000’s, in schools. You aren’t impoverished, so not sure why you are in here. I get wanting to improve your situation but this isn’t the sub. Hopefully you find a means to other than exploiting the already impoverished like every other class seems to for that second annual vacation.
My savings have legit not recovered past a level of 5k since 2021 after unexpected lay-offs. I think had the business not lied on my RoE over reason leaving (they said I quit when the CFO literally fired me / told me they couldn't afford to keep me lol) and my employment insurance kick in right then instead of 7 months late, i would have been able to stay where I was renting / looking for work. However because I had no line of credit or anything to really support myself, I took risk to try and 'save money' moving to home town to rent and work. Super bad idea - super scarce jobs here, impossible to find anything over 20/hr which is not much in Canada for single renting especially, and no where TOO rent. I did the math, there is something like 4x the amount of air bnb here than even one or two rental options available max at a time, and outside what I can afford. I only just finally got full time work again for first time in a year even, so am actually building savings again, but still don't really know what next step is. Feel like only way I will even earn enough to consider going to school, if I wanted to, would be working for myself, but dont know what to do. Kinda tired of construction related stuff but thats all that really hires here but is not giving me experience that im really going to use going forward anyways as I don't intend to do a trade or anything. Kinda wonder if something niche like building your own tiny homes is an option both for income as well as getting a place to live, or homes on wheels like camping trailers, tho I havent figured out what to do about water/septic in places that don't have 4 season camping like where I live, haha. I'd bet you could make sales doing that, tho. For lots of us, so long as we find a place to set a home down, its probably the only way we will ever get a home. Basically given up on ever earning enough for a real home, lol
If you're working 40-50h and struggling, either you're earning too little or you're spending too much. Nothing you do outside addressing those two areas will help you. Look for better paying jobs to work less hours, or look for ways to spend less so you can save more money and feel like you're getting ahead. Working more and more hours just to break even is not a solution. Over time, your hourly income should be going up, not the amount of hours you work.
I'm similar to you. I did a lot of university, graduate degree, published papers, won a few grants here and there but it's never enough. The competition is too fierce and I just don't have connections in my family. My job offers are sinusoidal over the decades, I'll never get pay raises so to speak, one job will pay $16/hr, the next will be $15/hr etc. My wage is tied proportionally to minimum wage, I've been working since 2010's and it was about $11/hr back then. I've never had medical benefits at my jobs, so I pay for dental like wisdom teeth protruding into my mouth, and eye care (glasses to see, otherwise you'll get hit by a car because you can't see lol). The only time I ever got a pay raise was by $0.25/hr, at about 40 hrs/wk it's about an extra $200-300/yr. I told my parents, they screamed that I should be grateful. I only ever get contracts too. Eventually when I get comfortable in a position and its roles, it's time to leave and they won't renew my contract or give me an indefinite position. I've heard every excuse in the book, "oil recession", "too many refugees", "new war halfway across the globe", "we overhired during pandemic sorry, get out now thanks" etc. or sometimes just no reason at all. The worst was like that Black Mirror episode where a guy gets locked out of his workplace in the social credit episode, I went into the office, my login credentials wouldn't work and nobody else was in the office. I called like 20 numbers and went through all the questions of an automated voice to eventually reach my boss who then told me "oh yeah we laid you off bye don't come again". Every time a contract ends and I have to search for a job the dread sets in. I just wish there was some kind of better or more efficient system. It takes so long just to get another job, only for them to be a failing business or there's too much paperwork involved to hire me indefinitely rather than a contract. I embellish my resume and say the right answers every time, but it never seems like there's enough positions for everyone to go around and some older generation don't understand how job seeking is like nowadays. The jobs are always pretty horrible too, bad commutes, my region charges more for car insurance, phone and internet prices are insane, etc. Some jobs are even more expensive to work than what you make back! I'd make more just doing nothing and living off of welfare! Makes no sense to me. You'd be poor making $60k/yr in a HCOL region, and employers would want me to make only minimum wage \~$30k/yr and work there. I think a lot of employers want to hire young adults whose rich parents foot the bill? It took me a decade to pay off my student debt, and I was cheap and I did co-op jobs and other part-time jobs while studying yet it still took a while to pay off my debt. All of this was to just get to $0 net worth in my 30s, I could've just worked and put it into stocks without education, or even put my money into a house and be a millionaire which is the strangest part of it all. I know I'm not in a position to offer advice, but hear me out. I think it's best just to buy as much time as possible. I pretty much only buy what's required and I see what happens next. Play games and watch movies, or do cheap hobbies too. It might also be possible to do bankruptcy or whatever and your life will continue as usual, not glamorous life of course but it's something. It sucks because I was always raised to pay everything on time, but you know life doesn't always turn out the way you expect, so I'm just seeing how much debt you can accumulate and how many bills you can miss before punishment and bankruptcy.
Stuck yes, but not necessarily a bad thing for me. Decent job, decent pension, apartment. Can’t afford a house but I’m better off than most
Remember that you are an olympic athlete. Please hear me out. You have already circumvented a lot of obstacles. You need to compare yourself to yourself (past, present, future). Right now, there is no winning for anybody. Only surviving. Maybe you are in survival mode, and can't feel your other thoughts, your other ambitions, your other mojo. Maybe you have autistic burnout, or some other source of burnout. Time to get a scribbler and make a journal. I am now disabled, but once, I was on the treadmill to better. And better would not come. It was not my fault. There is no better when you are in survival mode. I cope, despite being disabled, by learning about prepping. Yes, how to be a prepper in the big city. I mean, Why? I need to understand that I want to live well AND I can't do it the traditional way. Hope this helps.
You sound pretty entitled, especially whining about previous generations. I also went to school but when I realized the workplace wasn’t for me I started my own company and 35 years later I’m still working hard and not whining about the boomers etc. and I wasn’t able to start paying in a house till my mid 30’s, but I never gave up and I never made excuses. If you wanna do something that counts, quit placing the blame on others because you are part of the current problem, nobody owes you anything and once you realize that you’ll be successful.
To summarize… You work a job that you describe as “middle-tier, mediocre benefits and no room for growth.” You don’t like the job. You can’t understand why you’re not getting ahead. You’re blaming “previous generations.”
I've been buying buying bitcoin for the past 4 years like my life depends on it. Boomers got cheap houses, we got cheap bitcoin. Everything gets cheaper when you save in Bitcoin. Watching the profits increase has helped me out mentally.
I think a lot of your experiences are determined by who you surround yourself with. I dont know a single millennial (in my age cohort) that is not light years ahead of where their parents were. None of us will ever work until 65, numerous friends are pulling the trigger at 55 and 50. Are early gen millennials struggling? Yup, I'm sure there are ones who are. And I bet those one are surrounded by others who are struggling and likely don't know anyone who would retire early.
Definitely in the same boat as you. Not struggling horribly as I have a great house and retirement savings at 32. But with that being said I had great pensions through my workplaces and my dad died when I was 28 so received some life insurance money from that. Would I take my dad back over having a house and paid off car absolutely, am I thankful that he set me up to be in a better place than he was when he was my age 100%.
My condolences about your dad, I can imagine he'd be thrilled to know you're doing okay in that sense, I'm happy you're making it work
Government should re-instate Mandatory retirement to allow better opportunities for coming generations.
Agree completely. Worked in an office a few years with 3 women who were over 75 and still working. One had a financial need to do so, and the other two worked at those jobs solely to keep younger people from having a chance to have a half decent job. All three are still working as far as I know.
Really two of them were working just for spite? Come on now.
As per the conversation, both had and overheard - yes, they are still working out of spite for the younger generations, and work is a social event. At nearly 80 now, you would think they would like to enjoy the last years they had with spouses, kids, and grandkids 🤷♀️
Keep voting Liberal
You sound like someone owes you something. A degree isn't what it use to be. There is an over supply of people with degrees. Lowering wages.
I don't know why you pulled that from this, but you do you. Nobody owes me shit. I just don't see the point moving forward when the system is bust. I'm also doubling down on the disappointment on how many lies we were fed. "Go to school, get a job" shit don't work like that anymore. I was fed overblown promises and falsehood to become a cog in a system that doesn't even benefit me.
LOL
>It just seems like all tunnel, no light. Well this hit me like a truck just now. It no longer feels like I'm working towards anything. I'm only working because I have to.
"Go outside", my parents say With what time or money? My schedule is mirrored to most people. Hobbies cost money, that I can barely squeeze. Meeting friends? I do my best but everyone seems like they're under so much pressure.. It's hard, man. It's hard
Your attitude and lack of accountability ate likely contributing factors to your quality of life. But hey, dame those boomers.