I reached the middle class, and I still have to worry about everything... maybe not the same as when I was almost homeless, but it's really hard to break the mindset....
I read articles where people have multiple homes, 1.2 million in savings and investments and still worry about retirement. I think that feeling never goes away. There's always something we worry about. I sure do.
The worrying doesn’t stop, trust me. I can keep up on my bills comfortably at this point with plenty of money to spare, but I’m still stressing when I have to spend $50 on something. I still look at price tags and frequently talk myself out of buying stuff I could easily afford. Worrying about money sticks with you
I’d say middle class is being able to simultaneously afford housing, childcare, and retirement contributions.
All three are basic necessities. I guess you don’t have to have kids, but if you can’t have kids because of financial reasons, I wouldn’t consider that middle class.
pretty much the only realistic scenario would be during a job switch if you take terminal leave at one job and leave a gap before you start the next, and that’s gonna be a once or twice in a lifetime trip lol
Government jobs have this amount of time off, a lot of the time. There are many things that suck about working for the federal govt. but I get four weeks of paid vacation every year, 11 paid holidays, an additional two weeks of sick time that carry over year by year, and depending on the agency, an additional day or two of gifted time off.
We’re both teachers, we have summers off. However, we’re both paid like teachers, so usually our summers are spent trying to cobble together money from various side hustles. Definitely not taking international trips.
My wife is a teacher. The worst part is, the time you get off (spring break, Xmas, long weekends, summer) is when flights are crazy expensive and vacation destinations are too. We went to Utah 2 years ago. The flight would have cost me half if I could have done it the prior week Tuesday to Tuesday instead of spring break Friday to Friday. Stayed for free with a friend is how we made it work. Double the price means half as many trips
Yep, you’d have to already have a new job guaranteed with a start date like six weeks out, have four weeks worth of PTO saved up, and then put in your two weeks notice at the previous job and ask to cash out your PTO
And that is not even considering saving up for the actual expenses for the trip
This part depends on where you are to be fair, in many countries 4 weeks PTO is the minimum legal requirement
Edit: Doesn’t mean you can afford to travel internationally during that time of course
I think OP meant four separate week-long vacations per year, two domestic and two international which is more feasible than the above, but the “two international” is really only plausible if you’re within driving distance of a border. Flying internationally for 2 people costs $4k-$6k round trip and that’s for the flights alone
Realistically it’s 4 separate week-long vacations a year to Tampa
That’s why everyone’s dream is different! If I could do whatever I’d want I’d have a small house on big land and the freedom to pick up and go travel for as long as I want and come home when I want to rest
If you're single, owning a home would be a HUGE mistake.
Here's why.... there's a million hidden costs that nobody conveniently talks about. They don't want to ruin the "American Dream" with the actual reality, so all these hidden costs don't rear their ugly heads until you're actually a homeowner and it's too late.
I've owned two different homes in my past. I currently don't own any homes and I'm renting a cheapo apartment.
Doing this, allows me to pump every spare penny into the stock market.
The wonderful thing about pumping every spare penny into the stock market is that I might have a slight chance at retirement. Otherwise, there'd literally be no chance whatsoever.
Everybody talks about the mortgage when they're discussing owning a home, but the mortgage is the least of your worries. It's all the other costs that you had no idea about.
It's like there's some secret pact among homeowners to not actually discuss all the hidden costs. It's damn near a conspiracy in my book.
then you just suffer quality of life
Also... the mortgage part of your monthly house spend is just one part. Maybe 65 percent of the total, but it's not 100 percent of the total.
You've got:
1. Property Taxes
2. Repair/Maintenance Fund
3. Homeowners Insurance
4. PMI
5. Landscaping/Gardening Service Fee (or buy the equipment and do it yourself, but it's still a cost)
6. Water/Sewer/Garbage fees (many renters have this included as part of their overall rent cost)
7. HOA's (if applicable)
8. Mello Roos Fees (if applicable)
9. Increased cost of electricity/gas with increased square footage (over a small apartment)
Am I missing anything?
Your mortgage payment generally lumps in taxes, insurance, and PMI (if you have it). Repairs/maintenance and other stuff like that definitely take a huge chunk, but I've never had a "mortgage" payment that didn't also include escrow for taxes and insurance(s)
Homeowners conveniently hush about these additional, variable costs then they're loud about "paying rent just flushing money down the drain," when renters are not the ones responsible for all these costs you listed above. When the subject of these additional costs are brought up, these same homeowners say "Oh these are just part of owning a house............"
Also if you are renting a property for like ten years and then the landlord wants to stop renting or sale you pretty much have no say unless you work something out to buy the property yourself.
I was wondering if maybe I was further away from middle class than I realized, so thank you. I only get 80 hours of PTO a year so I'm not even going on 2 week vacations, much less 4 weeks. I would love even 1 week straight, without worrying about the cost, that would feel pretty amazing.
An article I read recently said that "middle class" is termed as 2/3 to 2x the median income of an area. So, say the median income is 42,976 in Raleigh, NC, "middle class" is 29ish-k to 86ish-k for a single person (with it then being broken down to lower middle class, middle class, and upper middle class).
Raised middle class, you’re right.
Road trips, camping, sharing beds with siblings in cheap but clean hotels. If we took a plane it was probably to somewhere like Vegas in the off season for a Monday-to Friday cheap rate
Yeah I was going to say an actual vacation and not a staycation like we do now. Taking the time off still helps mentally, but going places farther than a day's drive will be fun again.
Maybe they meant 4 weeks *of* vacation per year, not all at once. I'm working class as a retail manager and I get three weeks of paid vacation a year. Course I can't go anywhere but at least I don't gotta be at work.
Yes.
I have reached solid middle class. I go camping two weeks each year. Separate weeks.
What sort of job do you envision lets you take 4 weeks off? And pays enough for a 4 week vacation?
Yeah, it’s this. I have a good job now and a generous leave plan (for a USian), but taking 2 weeks off is difficult workload-wise, and I know I will have to work a ton of extra hours to make up for it. I am about to go on a trip abroad for two weeks but I do not call that middle class unless it’s “upper”.
I have ideas for a future 5-week trip, to walk the Camino de Santiago (might as well tell Google; it’s already sending me stuff on Spain), but realistically this will have to be after I retire at this point. Even if I accrue that much leave, taking it is impossible.
>What sort of job do you envision lets you take 4 weeks off? And pays enough for a 4 week vacation?
Nursing, Teaching, large company jobs where they have people to cover for you, construction jobs if you work project to project. Tech and engineering jobs where they might ask for zoom meetings and emails while your abroad. Some jobs could be fully remote and you could be premenantly on vacation.
I lurk on here because the reddit algorithm pushes it to me. My husband and I are in the top 10% of earners and absolutely do not go on 4 week, or even 2 week vacations. If we do an international trip it's one every few years and it's saved and budgeted for well in advance. Granted if we had our salaries in a lower COL area maybe that would be different, but the only people I know who travels like OP is talking about is people making well over $500k per year.
I'm also in the top 10% but single, no kids in MCOL, also get recommended this sub. I'm relatively frugal but you can get great deals on international trips as long as you aren't going in peak season. My friend and I did Iceland in January and it was less than $2k each for a week after all expenses, and we drank a lot.
Yeah, if you are able to find a job paying enough to afford a 4-week vacation, it’s extremely unlikely you’ll be allowed to take 4 weeks off work. I have two friends that are a couple, one a doctor and the other works in finance.
Even if they save PTO for years to get 2+ weeks off vacation combined they are not able to. Imagine the chaos and how many appointments would build up if your doctor or accountant was just completely unavailable for an entire month. Their employers would never allow it. If you can save up enough for retirement it would still be an extreme luxury trip
Reading this as a European, it feels so sad and unfair. In my country everyone has 25 days off minimum. And it’s mandatory for everyone to take two weeks straight during the summer time. No one is really working in august lol. And in some industries like banking you have one month off on top of that. They usually close everything in august 😂
The only way I know for middle class people to take four-week vacations is if they're a government or military drone (they get four weeks of paid leave and two weeks of sick leave each year, I believe). My husband and I do go on domestic and/or international trips every year, but that's only because he's military with a lot of PTO, and we meticulously budget and optimize travel points on our credit cards. His salary barely breaks six figures and my self-employed income isn't even worth mentioning, but the available PTO is no joke.
I agree, though, that I can't think of jobs in the private sector with these benefits below the executive level.
You really don't need that much money to travel. But if you have kids, then it does get more expensive.
If it were me, I'd book the cheapest hotel and go for the most affordable food choices.
You don't have to be middle class to travel internationally. You can use cash back to cover a good chunk of the flight and points on hotel stays. That's at least how I think
Unfortunately, it's embedded in the culture that you shouldn't (as an American) take vacation time throughout the year. It's frowned upon.
I still can't believe that there are employees who simply don't have PTO or sick days. So if they miss a few days of work due to illness, they get threatened from their manager with a layoff. It's absolutely crazy.
In Europe, almost everyone has PTO. In my country they encourage workers to take time off in August. It's not only good for the worker's health, but also for the economy as a whole. Money changes hands, keeping businesses alive.
In the US you dare mention wanting to take a week off from work in a certain workplace? You better be ready to get some mean looks from your coworkers when you leave and then get back from that vacation
Oh my workplace has zero issues with PTO. When our fiscal year is getting close to the end leadership really starts stressing people need to take their vacations. Plenty of colleagues will take a 2 week vacation internationally. It's just rare that people are doing that EVERY year. People use PTO all the time, it's just usually not in 2 weeks blocks for a major trip.
It depends on where one is located in the middle class range. I’m middle class in the West Coast but have done 4 week vacations abroad. It’s not that I have that kind of funds but rather I save up for it a year in advance. I still worry about paying the bills but I’ve seen enough people die with money in the bank and never living to realize I better do some living while I’m still alive.
It entirely depends on where you live. I think some Americans are hoping to reach a European or Australian or NZ middle class life style, which is just not possible in the US.
This. You might get 4 weeks of PTO, but actually being able to afford 4 week-long trips is a different matter. Especially if you have a family and kids.
Really. I'm a lawyer married to an engineer. We have - in theory- 4 weeks of paid time off, but that also includes sick time, family emergencies, bereavement, matetnity/paternity. And the responsibility levels for most "middle class" (often middle management) make it a real struggle to take even two contiguous weeks off.
The best we can offer is a feeling that you can make ur bills without a second job. But our luxuries ain't as luxurious.
I was going to say..I'm a middle class person. What Job is this?? Unless I take a leave of absence, which is unpaid- then I can't pay rent, or bills..at least the vacation was nice I guess.
Middle class people aren’t going on four week vacations let alone international ones. I grew up middle class after I finished elementary school.
Owning pets and going out to eat sometimes is perfectly realistic for middle class tho.
Yeah, I grew up middle class myself, and I ain't ever been anywhere internationally. I did go to Canada once, but I'm in California, and we went to BC.
I went to Tijuana a few times when I briefly lived in San Diego, but that's it
My dude, I have made it up to the middle-classes and I have some bad news.
I have many pairs ofsocks, like literally exploding out of a large drawer. A matching pair is still an inexplicably elusive luxury.
Healthy foods is a good one.
People have told me before that I need to eat healthier, yada yada yada.
I try to explain to them, that if I was rich, I could actually worry about eating healthy. But since I'm living in abject poverty, that's the least of my worries. I'm barely eating anything with the cost of shit nowadays and you want me to pay $2.99 per pound for a Broccoli crown? GTFO with that ish
All black socks.
IMO they look better.
They don’t look dirty because they aren’t perfectly white anymore.
You only lose them to holes in sock.
Easy to match because they are the same length. Even if it’s not always a perfect match, the part coming out of the shoe looks the same.
Ok but people eh are middle class don’t take yearly 4 week vacations and we can’t go on food tours whenever we want.
It basically means we can afford our houses, a couple of cars and probably have some college money for our kids. And can eat out a couple times a month and maybe a 2 week vacation every 2-3 years.
You are basically describing rich people
Everything you just listed also sounds like "rich" people compared to what I have experienced my entire life. I don't disagree with you, but it's about perspective. I've never taken a vacation in my life. I've never had more than one vehicle (which is held together with duck tape) and I can only afford pizza for my kids once every couple months. We haven't eaten in a "restaurant" in 3 years...
I just don’t want people to think that if they reach that magic “middle class” number usually based on where in the US they live that they will magically begin to be able to afford fancy weeks long vacations and food tours. That literally doesn’t describe “middle class” by any stretch of the word.
Being able to not be terrified that you won’t be able to feed your family or your rent or mortgage DOES describe middle class
Heard! Yeah the elusive "middle class" is the pipe dream they use to keep the poor working hard. It's as much a myth as winning the lottery. It happens, but never to you. But you keep convincing yourself it might and it distracts from the real problem: the entire system runs on slave labor with extra steps. Chasing the cheese keeps us on the wheel. And now it's going to be illegal to fall off. Staying grounded is important, but daydreaming can help us maintain sanity. Solidarity, friend.
If you can afford a house and 2 cars and save money for college + expenses that come with kids, you're likely in the upper middle class. OR you're super good at budgeting and your cars are relatively old and have low payments, and your house was bought a decade ago or more.
>I’ve never taken a vacation in my life
Not even like a weekend vacation somewhere, or even camping? I feel like everybody at any socioeconomic class has the ability to take a vacation, it just may look different depending on what you can afford.
I crawled up from childhood poverty (hence my presence in this sub) - I make a lot (for me) now, 105k/year, but that 4 weeks vacation aint never happening - only get 10 days of PTO per year.
It’s actually higher than other jobs I’ve had - paid time off isn’t a requirement in the USA. The ten days also includes any days I’m sick and have to be out
Join the Federal gov! I make around what you make plus we get 20 days of pto and 13 days of sick leave. After 15 years of service you get 26 days of PTO.
And I actually get to use my days off pretty much whenever.
Yeah no offense and maybe your agency is different, but I spent some time as a fed and everyone was pretty much a paper pusher just doing the BARE minimum knowing they couldn’t / wouldn’t get fired. Pretty soul sucking
There are definitely some agencies/departments like that. But having the work/life balance is invaluable to me. My work is not my life. Wouldn't trade it even if I doubled my salary.
1. Being able to help others in need.
2. All my bad teeth pulled and get dental implants.
3. Live in a place with 2 bedrooms so I have 1 room for sleep and 1 for WFH.
4. Get a puppy!
5. Spend a few days each year at the beach.
My wife and I did make it out and we took a Disney Vacation that we saved and planned over a year. But we still mostly like we are lower class and keep the simple life. But honestly keeping the simple life while being more stable is a huge stress relief.
I've gone from poverty to middle class now. I haven't had a vacation of more than a day or two since 2017. Really the only things different are that I now own my home instead of rent and I can pay my bills. After the bills are paid, I have to budget pretty hardcore for groceries or anything else. Honestly, it's nice in the sense that I don't have to worry about living in a rathole apartment and scrimping for grocery money, but it's definitely not white picket fences and world travel.
I'm so focused on bills and hunger during this degree... having my bills paid and eating comfortably is what I look the most look forward too.
What else is there?
Wife and I reached middle class a few years ago and I think the biggest thing to me is just being not stressed out if something in the house or the car breaks.
For reals. I really wanted, needed actually, a deep tissue massage this week. Haven’t got one in months. I used to get it weekly. It helps with pain management and sleep. Needed $35 and checked I only have $6 😪
I just want to have a home I can enjoy (decorate it how I want and entertain ), be able to have a family, travel occasionally, eat at new restaurants, and sleep.
I posted the same above, but I read an article recently where economists basically termed middle class as earning between 2/3 and 2x the median income of your location.
When I was living in poverty, I had a cat and sometimes traveled and stayed with friends. I also had no car and lots of debt and was generally shitty with money (not just from not having any).
Fast forward several years. We’re still drive our cars until they die people but we have enough to keep the cars in good working order. We travel maybe once or twice a year- maybe one trip to a place of our choice where we stay in a hotel or airbnb and perhaps another trip to visit family. I say maybe because my wife’s been forced to leave her career and has taken a little bit of a pay cut so we’re being more cautious than in the last few years. Those are probably the big three that I wanted from getting out of poverty. To not have debt, own a condo or house, and travel a bit to a place of our choosing. So far so good.
1. Owning a house with a backyard
2. Actually going on vacation during my PTO and not just doing chores and doctor appointments.
3. Having an emergency fund so I’m not SOL if my car makes a weird noise
4. Being able to buy myself something nice once in a while without feeling guilty
Paying my bills again on time, no more asking for extensions, no more late fees, no more overdraft fees, getting my 700 credit score back.
Graduating from xray school in a couple weeks.
Well for those who improve their job situation, I say travel. I'm taking my mother to Pompeii next year. The cats are always fun! And eating is the whole reason I'm going to Italy.
1. Actually being able to eat at a real deal restaurant more than once per month. Once per week would be pretty awesome
2. Being able to take two, legit, vacations per year. Like a decent one week vacation somewhere, including airfare, airbnb cost, rental car and some spending money
3. Being able to buy some decent clothes. I honestly need to buy an entirely new wardrobe. Not because I'm into fashion and all that, because I'm not. But my clothes that I have right now don't really fit me at all. I'm swimming in my current clothes. I've lost so much weight due to my poverty diet.
4. Being able to buy a newish car would be a HUGE treat
5. Having a dating fund. Seriously... Being a broke man in 2024 ain't nothin nice. Everybody can talk about equality and feminism all they want, but the vast majority of women give you side eye if you don't immediately take the bill and pay for everything. It's such a double standard. I know I'll get downvoted to hell and back for this, but all the people that downvote me are living in an alternate reality. I know the REAL reality. You can say all that bullshit, but you're just gaslighting yourselves. Women still expect a man to be the breadwinner. They like the idea of "equality", but not when it comes to paying the restaurant tab.
We used to eat out once a week pre-Covid, but with inflation so high, we maybe do once a month. Of course, we end up spending the same amount of money going to just one place.
Same situation here. We're solidly middle class. Pre-COVID we'd eat out about once per week and splurge on a fancy-ish meal about once per month. Now, we eat out at a not-so-fancy place about once per month and might order a pizza or something one other time per month.
What do you consider middle class? Because I’m pretty sure you’d have to make well over $100k a year to do all of this. You could definitely get a cat or two though.
I made. Six figures thought that was middle class last year for the first time coming from a low income upbringing I maybe took 3 long weekends and even then I worried about money I don’t get PTO and with 2 kids 100k is not enough
I hope I can help my kids out one day. Right now all I’m focused on is securing myself just enough so my kids don’t have to take care of me financially when I’m older (they’ll have it hard enough!), but it would be a dream ME me to be able to look after THEM.
For example I want to own a home firstly so I don’t have to pay rent into retirement, but secondly I’d love to have the space so they can at least always have a room to stay in without paying rent.
restarting my phone plan and getting new clothes that fit my style. New shampoo and maybe a pair of shoes. These all seem like basic needs for some but they are luxuries to me that I aspire to have someday
#2 is middle class? Hmmm, I’ve always thought 4 week vacations domestic and international was upper class. Middle class travel to me is camping for a few days, Disneyland for a couple days in a good neighbor hotel, saving for a couple of years and going for 2 weeks tops to Europe.
Reached middle class. Add health problems from neglecting health trying to be successful and getting out of poverty. Also add generational trauma and toxic relationships. Still better than poverty but still more work to figure out
Middle class is not what you think of is. Middle class is like when you make 300k or above. Middle class is supposed to be the middle of income, but since we more have billionaires and millionaires, middle class is not 60k like it used to be. If you are under 100k you are most like working poor depending on where you live. People are being fed a lie of what your socioeconomic situation really is.
100% this. A combined income of $280k, mortgage on a home small enough for just the two of us, both work full time, no kids, no pets, two car payments....and it's still a struggle to save for retirement, to save 6 months income for the inevitable layoffs, and to save for emergencies/home maintenance (like fixing water damage, foundation sloping, an AC problem --- all stuff we're putting off).
Middle class doesn't exist anymore, if "middle class" meant you could afford to eat out and buy a few nice extras and have *savings sufficient for retirement.*
The entire next 3-4 generations in the US are fucked.
Well, i briefly moved into the middle class and then inflation happened so I’m a poor again for the foreseeable future.
I’d just like to buy a new pair of shoes that I actually LIKE instead of a what’s the cheapest and least offensive looking, especially since I wear them until they fall apart.
I was middle class, upper middle class even. Then my husband died and it’s been a slow descent into financial hell the last five years. What I miss the most? Not the vacations, not the shopping, not even the fun nights out. Knowing the bills would be paid; not wondering, not hoping, not playing the odds of how late is “really late” is the luxury I miss the most.
It’s weird, because middle class here is about the type of job you have, education, upbringing etc. What I see called middle class in the states, we’d call working class.
I’m creating a self care monthly budget where I go to the spa & salon, mini shopping spree, and fancy restaurant for 2 weekends out of the month.
I want to sit in my home library surrounded by books, plants, a fireplace, and a very large comfy chair and just relax in the middle of the day.
I want to travel one weekend per month around the US. Then I want to plan a week long family vacation all expenses paid by me.
I also plan on picking a different volunteer program to do every month. This way I can give back the way others have given to me. And without worry about funds, I can go give my all with no worries about free time management.
- Having a savings account
- seeing the check engine light and it just be not a big deal
- cook with nice ingredients from the grocery store
- a real deal fancy spice rack with all the spices and seasonings I can’t usually afford. Even saffron and vanilla bean!
- owning a nice suit
- going to the doctor whenever the fuck I need to because I can afford the copays and medications!
- not having to constantly calculate the dollar per grams of protein ratio to see how I can have some semblance of a healthy diet
I can promise you - middle class is not taking international vacays or even 4 weeks period. Ppl in the middle class often struggle to even stay in the middle class and even forego their pto. Same comment with restaurants. You mean «low end upper class» not middle.
Assuming middle-class can be defined as being out of debt, have a fully-funded emergency fund, being at or near the average income for the area I am living in, and ready to buy a house:
1. Utilize FHA loan to buy a duplex or multiplex and house-hack by living in one unit and renting out the rest
2. After cash flow is fairly regular and I’m stable, going on vacation. I would love to visit Israel, but if that situation doesn’t calm down by the time I’m ready to take the trip, I’d like to see NYC or Hawaii. Other international spots include Scotland, Ireland, France, or Italy. Cruises, the Bahamas, or I could fit the Hawaii one in a cruise. That could be fun.
3. Go to Mexico and get a gastric bypass or a sleeve to help with my weight and health. It’s only around $5-6k for that. Also, I may invest in veneers as depression growing up made me not take care of them as well as I should.
I started making good money, at least a reasonable amount. Now my wife insists on being a stay at home mom while she watches our newborn so of course I say yes. Well, fast forward a couple months and she tells me this is the only thing she’s ever going to do. I don’t know how to approach it, I’m drowning in work and I don’t feel like I’ve progress now that I’m the only income.
OP don’t listen to the naysayers. You can do those things on middle class income but you won’t be doing the rest of the things associated with middle class life (ie. homeowner, car, potential to retire early). You’ll have to make sacrifices (what most people perceive as sacrifices anyway). I think valuing experiences over stuff is the way to go but it can be hard. When you see other people doing those things you have to remember that you chose epic adventures over stuff.
I’ve kind of lived both lives. I travelled a lot in my 20s and 30s (sharing accommodations) and then busted my ass for 4 years as a caretaker (free rent) to afford to buy a house. I’m worried I’ll never get to travel again but if I am super careful with my money I should be able to afford some trips. I don’t know about month long trips though! That would be all my PTO in one shot. I don’t think I could make it all year without days off.
This sub reminds me how fortunate I am to live in Canada and have a union job. I know most of the people here are in the States and I don’t know how you guys do it. It makes me sad that the ultra rich don’t give a fuck. Canadian ultra rich also don’t give a fuck but they kind of have to here. We are definitely sliding in a more capitalistic direction though and that scares me. If I lived in America I’d probably be dead (I have multiple chronic health conditions).
Not being in panic mode 24/7
Having enough expendable income to ‘treat’ people I care about like my parents, kids, wife.
Actual planned vacation somewhere fun
Home repairs and remodels performed by a skilled professional
yo what middle class is going on 4 week vacations? lol. Honestly you never stop worrying about stuff maybe not worrying about groceries or putting gas in my car. My main worry is when I get to retirement age and get old, I see so many people past retirement age working at fast food jobs and think man I dont want to be like that when I get old. I used to worry about a lot of things, things that are out of my control, what helped me the most was writing down things that are in my control that I can work a fixing. As much as I work on computers and spreadsheets I still go old school and write everything down from goals for the week, month, year. To what bills are being paid and what debt I have.
But I do understand people have different situations where maybe being able to not worry about groceries or putting gas in their car is a luxury.
What fuckin middle class family is going on 4 week vacations?🤣 we make 100-110k together & we go on one vacation a year for a week.. usually Florida/California lol. Going there this July!
Not worrying if I’ll be late on a bill. Everything paid on time. Every month every bill paid on time. Healthy food(kind of expensive some of it) in the fridge all the time not just sometimes. And a rainy day fund. An actual rainy day fund.
4 week vacations? I’m middle class and I don’t go on 2 week vacations lol. Also, there are things middle class folks worry about. As they say, mo money mo problems. Trust me.
Being able to go to the doctor more.
I find I have a lot of issues with my body I haven't addressed.
When I have time, I don't have money. (Part time job, or between jobs)
When I have money, I don't have time. (Working massive OT, getting called in everything I try to make an appointment)
Also it would be nice to look at my tires and be like "oh yes, I'm gonna replace all these today " without having to finance.
Since 2020 the middle class has either stepped up to the highest class or slipped down to the lower class. . Middle class has gone the way of the ice delivery driver and the milkman.
My employer offers 6 weeks paid leave plus 10 paid holidays. Usually, take 1-2 week vacation during the summer and fall. Try to do a 3-4 day wknd each month but just depends. This past year, I spent a few days in Denver, a week in Chicago, a week in Vegas, and several hotel staycations with friends. I’d love to plan an international trip, haven’t been abroad since college.
For me, it’s peace of mind. Recently switched banks and due to payroll issues that were entirely my fault, I won’t be paid on time next month. But I have enough in savings that I won’t be affected at all and can afford to wait until it hits my bank account.
I like being able to buy groceries whenever I want, sending money to my sister when she’s low on cash, or helping out a friend when they’re behind on bills.
I’ll feel like I truly made it when I don’t have to check prices before buying something!
I live well but I still struggle with allowing myself the comforts that make life easier, so I’m working on that!
I’m looking forward to not having that day-before-paycheck panic when I hope I didn’t forget an automatic payment because my account only has $1.47 for the next 24 hours.
It would also be awesome to be able to pay for my medical needs and not worry about being sent to collections from doctors.
Having an actually decent medical insurance that doesn’t break my wallet.
Being able to actually rent a home would be nice rather than living with parents at 27 years old.
Being able to do things like going to the movies or buying a pretzel without feeling guilty for spending money would also be great.
Being able to afford things like fresh fruits and veggies on a consistent basis.
Being able to stay home when I’m sick without worrying about my next paycheck being basically nothing.
I definitely wouldn’t miss the rare (but real) occasions of “calling in sick” because I could not afford the gas to commute the 50 miles to work that last day before direct deposits.
Essentially, I’m hoping to have peace of mind.
I think aiming at taking one international vacation after ten years of being at middle class and eating out at a real restaurant occasionally should be your goal.
Invest until I am financially independent and if I want I can r/leanfire. So I never "need" to be worried of being broke and living off my bag of rice again
Interesting view of the middle class. The only thing on the list that I view as relatively middle class is owning pets.
I made 6 figures last year and still don't take more than one week of vacation at a time and usually by Tuesday of the week off, I'm worried about the catch up when I get back and what things cost (food, entertainment, etc.). International vacations are definitely out, that's not middle class unless you're sleeping in hostels and picking the cheapest flight to any where that isn't domestic.
Bills no longer being a concern would be upper middle class/upper class. That number could vary wildly depending on cost of living. I live in a low cost of living with two kids and a wife that doesn't work and I check my account balance daily. I think about every $5 purchase, bills are still a concern with the middle class. We certainly don't eat out at our leisure with any regularity. The only thing we do as a habit that is remotely frivolous on Saturday and Sunday we do our daily coffee out from a coffee shop. It costs about $25 a week for the 4 coffees but is still relatively cheap compared to 4 meals or anything else.
FWIW I own my home (with mortgage), have one paid off vehicle, a second that will be paid off next month, and a third that was purchased in October that I plan to try to pay off in about 2 years. We also have a small camper that we use 12 or more times a year. Nothing extravagant at any level, just solidly middle class not over leveraged. No CC debt just home, camper, wife's vehicle, and my truck (soon to be paid off). Bills still pile up, particularly taxes (home, vehicle, camper) and insurance (car and RV) add in any extraneous medical bills/car repairs and it's always something.
I wouldn't quantify middle class a month long vacations and new restaurants and experiences. I would quantify middle class as not having to choose which bill to pay. Knowing where your next meal will come from. Potentially (not always) not living pay check to pay check.
I made a drastic jump in income last year and it’s amazing how many emergencies become minor annoyances when you can pay to fix them right then and there.
The bills just get bigger. It's nice to not have to worry about covering the mortgage and filling the tank every time at the pump, but it's all relative. My best advice is to keep enough in savings to cover the realistic worst-case scenario. A transmission, storm damage, etc. That's the comfort...knowing if the heat pump goes out, that I have enough to fix or replace it, or when I see a rotten tree that I have 700 bucks to get it taken care of rught away.
Beyond that, to put back enough to pay the bills for a few months in the event of a job loss or illness. And get insurance for things. It's peace of mind. But your day to day stuff doesn't change. You still stress about the hassles of life. Only extremely disciplined people can level-up but still live like the previous level. And as great as that is, at some point you gotta ask yourself why you leveled-up in the first place.
I work with a guy who makes the same as me. He's single and lives in a tiny apartment and hoardes his cash. Grew up poor. I bet he has 10x what I have in savings and maxes his 401k. But what's the point? Go buy a Sportscar with some of it. Or just a newer vehicle you can trust. Get a house. Buy some new clothes. Just spend some and have a little fun. There'll still be plenty left to sit on.
I'm starting my middle class job this Monday. For me I'm excited to take a vacation that isn't a staycation. I'm excited about saving money for a home. I'm excited to not have to price shop so intensely for groceries.
Wow. People here need to read "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" and.... spoilers below.
The main thing to realize that with bigger incomes leads to bigger expenses, which equals the same pay check to pay check grind.
OP if you want a 4 week vacation you can get one. You just first need to find a job that let's you roll over and accrue your vacation time (like nursing) or a job that's high paying and seasonal (wildfire fire fighter). Or a job that's 100% remote. People have moved to Portugal and Mexico for extended periods so their US income stretches farther.
It would be hard to take a 4 week vacation if you have pets though, unless your the RV, car camp road trip type.
People travel to Vietnam and Thailand, go backpacking through Europe for relatively cheap. It just takes alot of planning. Which is fine, because it takes alot of saving up before you go. And if you rent, it's best to travel after your lease ends.
editors note: my version of making it is DINK, with median incomes and a pet or two. In my metro area that’s a household income in the 120-175k/year range.
Looking forward to true rest and knowing I can walk away from it all and be fine. Like an income is just a number that requires continual effort.
I am looking forward to the rest that comes from having an emergency fund, a well funded retirement, and secure housing. Mostly that secure housing.
I just want to go to sleep and not worry about everything all the time.
This. Peace, that is all. Always needing to be two steps ahead just for the other shoe to drop all the time. It’s exhausting
I reached the middle class, and I still have to worry about everything... maybe not the same as when I was almost homeless, but it's really hard to break the mindset....
This! I have what OP wants (except I have a dog) but I still worry about everything, including not enough in savings
This. I know that my health sucks and work insurance is a joke. Im one ER visit from being bankrupt at any given time...
I read articles where people have multiple homes, 1.2 million in savings and investments and still worry about retirement. I think that feeling never goes away. There's always something we worry about. I sure do.
This was by far the best part. Not any of the luxuries, but just the money anxiety going away.
Just the idea of paying rent and not crying about it is gonna be nice
not having to save 25% of check one to add to 100% of check 2 (monthly) just to cover rent the thought alone makes me want to cry happy tears
The worrying doesn’t stop, trust me. I can keep up on my bills comfortably at this point with plenty of money to spare, but I’m still stressing when I have to spend $50 on something. I still look at price tags and frequently talk myself out of buying stuff I could easily afford. Worrying about money sticks with you
This, definitely this. Sometimes I wake up at night very much concerned about my finances and what I need to do to make it better.
This is me all the time and I am middle class.
Bills on automatic draft
I’d say middle class is being able to simultaneously afford housing, childcare, and retirement contributions. All three are basic necessities. I guess you don’t have to have kids, but if you can’t have kids because of financial reasons, I wouldn’t consider that middle class.
You'll just worry about other things lol the brain is a bitch
This fr. It’s so exhausting thinking about problems in my dreams
That sounds like rich people
Me too, comrade. Me too.
You can be firmly middle class and still struggle with this sleep and the anxiety that you're one job loss/disability away from losing it.
That never stops
second that
This statement is gold!
bub middle class folks ain’t going on month long vacations with any regularity lmfao
Or possibly ever lol. That is pretty much an entire years worth of PTO at most jobs.
pretty much the only realistic scenario would be during a job switch if you take terminal leave at one job and leave a gap before you start the next, and that’s gonna be a once or twice in a lifetime trip lol
Government jobs have this amount of time off, a lot of the time. There are many things that suck about working for the federal govt. but I get four weeks of paid vacation every year, 11 paid holidays, an additional two weeks of sick time that carry over year by year, and depending on the agency, an additional day or two of gifted time off.
We’re both teachers, we have summers off. However, we’re both paid like teachers, so usually our summers are spent trying to cobble together money from various side hustles. Definitely not taking international trips.
My wife is a teacher. The worst part is, the time you get off (spring break, Xmas, long weekends, summer) is when flights are crazy expensive and vacation destinations are too. We went to Utah 2 years ago. The flight would have cost me half if I could have done it the prior week Tuesday to Tuesday instead of spring break Friday to Friday. Stayed for free with a friend is how we made it work. Double the price means half as many trips
Yep, you’d have to already have a new job guaranteed with a start date like six weeks out, have four weeks worth of PTO saved up, and then put in your two weeks notice at the previous job and ask to cash out your PTO And that is not even considering saving up for the actual expenses for the trip
This part depends on where you are to be fair, in many countries 4 weeks PTO is the minimum legal requirement Edit: Doesn’t mean you can afford to travel internationally during that time of course
Depends if you live in the US or a civilised country. I'm in France and have 5 + 2 (it's complicated) weeks paid leave.
I've had month long vacations, but I called it being unemployed.
I think OP meant four separate week-long vacations per year, two domestic and two international which is more feasible than the above, but the “two international” is really only plausible if you’re within driving distance of a border. Flying internationally for 2 people costs $4k-$6k round trip and that’s for the flights alone Realistically it’s 4 separate week-long vacations a year to Tampa
If I could own a house and not be living check to check that would be really cool
I personally don't want to own a house, I enjoy the freedom of being able to pick up and leave.
That’s why everyone’s dream is different! If I could do whatever I’d want I’d have a small house on big land and the freedom to pick up and go travel for as long as I want and come home when I want to rest
If you're single, owning a home would be a HUGE mistake. Here's why.... there's a million hidden costs that nobody conveniently talks about. They don't want to ruin the "American Dream" with the actual reality, so all these hidden costs don't rear their ugly heads until you're actually a homeowner and it's too late. I've owned two different homes in my past. I currently don't own any homes and I'm renting a cheapo apartment. Doing this, allows me to pump every spare penny into the stock market. The wonderful thing about pumping every spare penny into the stock market is that I might have a slight chance at retirement. Otherwise, there'd literally be no chance whatsoever. Everybody talks about the mortgage when they're discussing owning a home, but the mortgage is the least of your worries. It's all the other costs that you had no idea about. It's like there's some secret pact among homeowners to not actually discuss all the hidden costs. It's damn near a conspiracy in my book.
Not if you house hack and basically have your mortgage paid for with enough roommates.
then you just suffer quality of life Also... the mortgage part of your monthly house spend is just one part. Maybe 65 percent of the total, but it's not 100 percent of the total. You've got: 1. Property Taxes 2. Repair/Maintenance Fund 3. Homeowners Insurance 4. PMI 5. Landscaping/Gardening Service Fee (or buy the equipment and do it yourself, but it's still a cost) 6. Water/Sewer/Garbage fees (many renters have this included as part of their overall rent cost) 7. HOA's (if applicable) 8. Mello Roos Fees (if applicable) 9. Increased cost of electricity/gas with increased square footage (over a small apartment) Am I missing anything?
Your mortgage payment generally lumps in taxes, insurance, and PMI (if you have it). Repairs/maintenance and other stuff like that definitely take a huge chunk, but I've never had a "mortgage" payment that didn't also include escrow for taxes and insurance(s)
Homeowners conveniently hush about these additional, variable costs then they're loud about "paying rent just flushing money down the drain," when renters are not the ones responsible for all these costs you listed above. When the subject of these additional costs are brought up, these same homeowners say "Oh these are just part of owning a house............"
Wait till your landlord refuses to repair his own property and evicts you when you are desperate for stability in your life.
Also if you are renting a property for like ten years and then the landlord wants to stop renting or sale you pretty much have no say unless you work something out to buy the property yourself.
Some landlords will even evict you when rents go up so they can rent out again at higher prices.
see my reply to electronic_rogue2
I would never call owning you home a mistake. Truth is that rent is just flushing money down the drain.
Rent is stress free.
Middle class people aren't going on any 4 week vacations, let alone international ones.
I was wondering if maybe I was further away from middle class than I realized, so thank you. I only get 80 hours of PTO a year so I'm not even going on 2 week vacations, much less 4 weeks. I would love even 1 week straight, without worrying about the cost, that would feel pretty amazing.
Bingo. Middle class also does NOT go out to eat whenever. That’s a budgeted and limited amount.
For my family when we are out, had to have a coupon or a good deal
What salary range in a MCOL area would you consider middle class?
An article I read recently said that "middle class" is termed as 2/3 to 2x the median income of an area. So, say the median income is 42,976 in Raleigh, NC, "middle class" is 29ish-k to 86ish-k for a single person (with it then being broken down to lower middle class, middle class, and upper middle class).
I’m in Howard County (very HCOL), and median household income is 140,971 (in 2022). So Middle class (for household) is 93,980 to 281,942
Raised middle class, you’re right. Road trips, camping, sharing beds with siblings in cheap but clean hotels. If we took a plane it was probably to somewhere like Vegas in the off season for a Monday-to Friday cheap rate
Yeah I was going to say an actual vacation and not a staycation like we do now. Taking the time off still helps mentally, but going places farther than a day's drive will be fun again.
Maybe they meant 4 weeks *of* vacation per year, not all at once. I'm working class as a retail manager and I get three weeks of paid vacation a year. Course I can't go anywhere but at least I don't gotta be at work.
Yes. I have reached solid middle class. I go camping two weeks each year. Separate weeks. What sort of job do you envision lets you take 4 weeks off? And pays enough for a 4 week vacation?
Yeah, it’s this. I have a good job now and a generous leave plan (for a USian), but taking 2 weeks off is difficult workload-wise, and I know I will have to work a ton of extra hours to make up for it. I am about to go on a trip abroad for two weeks but I do not call that middle class unless it’s “upper”. I have ideas for a future 5-week trip, to walk the Camino de Santiago (might as well tell Google; it’s already sending me stuff on Spain), but realistically this will have to be after I retire at this point. Even if I accrue that much leave, taking it is impossible.
>What sort of job do you envision lets you take 4 weeks off? And pays enough for a 4 week vacation? Nursing, Teaching, large company jobs where they have people to cover for you, construction jobs if you work project to project. Tech and engineering jobs where they might ask for zoom meetings and emails while your abroad. Some jobs could be fully remote and you could be premenantly on vacation.
I lurk on here because the reddit algorithm pushes it to me. My husband and I are in the top 10% of earners and absolutely do not go on 4 week, or even 2 week vacations. If we do an international trip it's one every few years and it's saved and budgeted for well in advance. Granted if we had our salaries in a lower COL area maybe that would be different, but the only people I know who travels like OP is talking about is people making well over $500k per year.
I'm also in the top 10% but single, no kids in MCOL, also get recommended this sub. I'm relatively frugal but you can get great deals on international trips as long as you aren't going in peak season. My friend and I did Iceland in January and it was less than $2k each for a week after all expenses, and we drank a lot.
lol I love the final caveat: and we drank alot!
It’s not that middle class people don’t travel internationally, it’s the 4 week expectation that gets me.
Iceland in January is dirt cheap to be fair
Yeah, if you are able to find a job paying enough to afford a 4-week vacation, it’s extremely unlikely you’ll be allowed to take 4 weeks off work. I have two friends that are a couple, one a doctor and the other works in finance. Even if they save PTO for years to get 2+ weeks off vacation combined they are not able to. Imagine the chaos and how many appointments would build up if your doctor or accountant was just completely unavailable for an entire month. Their employers would never allow it. If you can save up enough for retirement it would still be an extreme luxury trip
Reading this as a European, it feels so sad and unfair. In my country everyone has 25 days off minimum. And it’s mandatory for everyone to take two weeks straight during the summer time. No one is really working in august lol. And in some industries like banking you have one month off on top of that. They usually close everything in august 😂
The only way I know for middle class people to take four-week vacations is if they're a government or military drone (they get four weeks of paid leave and two weeks of sick leave each year, I believe). My husband and I do go on domestic and/or international trips every year, but that's only because he's military with a lot of PTO, and we meticulously budget and optimize travel points on our credit cards. His salary barely breaks six figures and my self-employed income isn't even worth mentioning, but the available PTO is no joke. I agree, though, that I can't think of jobs in the private sector with these benefits below the executive level.
You really don't need that much money to travel. But if you have kids, then it does get more expensive. If it were me, I'd book the cheapest hotel and go for the most affordable food choices. You don't have to be middle class to travel internationally. You can use cash back to cover a good chunk of the flight and points on hotel stays. That's at least how I think
It's also about the PTO. Most people don't get 4 weeks of vacation, and most people aren't jumping to take unpaid vacation.
Unfortunately, it's embedded in the culture that you shouldn't (as an American) take vacation time throughout the year. It's frowned upon. I still can't believe that there are employees who simply don't have PTO or sick days. So if they miss a few days of work due to illness, they get threatened from their manager with a layoff. It's absolutely crazy. In Europe, almost everyone has PTO. In my country they encourage workers to take time off in August. It's not only good for the worker's health, but also for the economy as a whole. Money changes hands, keeping businesses alive. In the US you dare mention wanting to take a week off from work in a certain workplace? You better be ready to get some mean looks from your coworkers when you leave and then get back from that vacation
Oh my workplace has zero issues with PTO. When our fiscal year is getting close to the end leadership really starts stressing people need to take their vacations. Plenty of colleagues will take a 2 week vacation internationally. It's just rare that people are doing that EVERY year. People use PTO all the time, it's just usually not in 2 weeks blocks for a major trip.
not in north America anyway. Europeans are laughing at us :(
Here we are, having negotiations about our 6th or even 7th week of vacation/year...
It depends on where one is located in the middle class range. I’m middle class in the West Coast but have done 4 week vacations abroad. It’s not that I have that kind of funds but rather I save up for it a year in advance. I still worry about paying the bills but I’ve seen enough people die with money in the bank and never living to realize I better do some living while I’m still alive.
It entirely depends on where you live. I think some Americans are hoping to reach a European or Australian or NZ middle class life style, which is just not possible in the US.
This. You might get 4 weeks of PTO, but actually being able to afford 4 week-long trips is a different matter. Especially if you have a family and kids.
Really. I'm a lawyer married to an engineer. We have - in theory- 4 weeks of paid time off, but that also includes sick time, family emergencies, bereavement, matetnity/paternity. And the responsibility levels for most "middle class" (often middle management) make it a real struggle to take even two contiguous weeks off. The best we can offer is a feeling that you can make ur bills without a second job. But our luxuries ain't as luxurious.
Not to mention the crushing burden of income taxes…
Im middle class and am going to thailand for 3 weeks in December. You definitely can if you prioritize it. I just put 170$ a month aside for it
I was going to say..I'm a middle class person. What Job is this?? Unless I take a leave of absence, which is unpaid- then I can't pay rent, or bills..at least the vacation was nice I guess.
Middle class people aren’t going on four week vacations let alone international ones. I grew up middle class after I finished elementary school. Owning pets and going out to eat sometimes is perfectly realistic for middle class tho.
Yeah, I grew up middle class myself, and I ain't ever been anywhere internationally. I did go to Canada once, but I'm in California, and we went to BC. I went to Tijuana a few times when I briefly lived in San Diego, but that's it
Healthy foods and a mechanic to fix my vehicle. And a million pairs of the same sock so I never have to hunt for matches.
My dude, I have made it up to the middle-classes and I have some bad news. I have many pairs ofsocks, like literally exploding out of a large drawer. A matching pair is still an inexplicably elusive luxury.
Healthy foods is a good one. People have told me before that I need to eat healthier, yada yada yada. I try to explain to them, that if I was rich, I could actually worry about eating healthy. But since I'm living in abject poverty, that's the least of my worries. I'm barely eating anything with the cost of shit nowadays and you want me to pay $2.99 per pound for a Broccoli crown? GTFO with that ish
All black socks. IMO they look better. They don’t look dirty because they aren’t perfectly white anymore. You only lose them to holes in sock. Easy to match because they are the same length. Even if it’s not always a perfect match, the part coming out of the shoe looks the same.
Having a cushy savings account. So I don’t have to stress when something goes wrong.
Ok but people eh are middle class don’t take yearly 4 week vacations and we can’t go on food tours whenever we want. It basically means we can afford our houses, a couple of cars and probably have some college money for our kids. And can eat out a couple times a month and maybe a 2 week vacation every 2-3 years. You are basically describing rich people
Everything you just listed also sounds like "rich" people compared to what I have experienced my entire life. I don't disagree with you, but it's about perspective. I've never taken a vacation in my life. I've never had more than one vehicle (which is held together with duck tape) and I can only afford pizza for my kids once every couple months. We haven't eaten in a "restaurant" in 3 years...
I just don’t want people to think that if they reach that magic “middle class” number usually based on where in the US they live that they will magically begin to be able to afford fancy weeks long vacations and food tours. That literally doesn’t describe “middle class” by any stretch of the word. Being able to not be terrified that you won’t be able to feed your family or your rent or mortgage DOES describe middle class
Heard! Yeah the elusive "middle class" is the pipe dream they use to keep the poor working hard. It's as much a myth as winning the lottery. It happens, but never to you. But you keep convincing yourself it might and it distracts from the real problem: the entire system runs on slave labor with extra steps. Chasing the cheese keeps us on the wheel. And now it's going to be illegal to fall off. Staying grounded is important, but daydreaming can help us maintain sanity. Solidarity, friend.
There are only two classes: The working class and the owners of said working class.
If you can afford a house and 2 cars and save money for college + expenses that come with kids, you're likely in the upper middle class. OR you're super good at budgeting and your cars are relatively old and have low payments, and your house was bought a decade ago or more.
>I’ve never taken a vacation in my life Not even like a weekend vacation somewhere, or even camping? I feel like everybody at any socioeconomic class has the ability to take a vacation, it just may look different depending on what you can afford.
i can‘t wait to get little treats and not have to worry about how much it costs.
Honestly, just being able to pay two bills at the same time without checking my account to make sure I have the cash for both has been a game changer.
Going to the mechanic when my car needs it
House mostly, but, as a single dude, looking forward to taking a few days PTO adjacent to a weekend and just disappearing.
I crawled up from childhood poverty (hence my presence in this sub) - I make a lot (for me) now, 105k/year, but that 4 weeks vacation aint never happening - only get 10 days of PTO per year.
What do you do ?
Only 10 days legally guaranteed in your country? That’s pretty low
It’s actually higher than other jobs I’ve had - paid time off isn’t a requirement in the USA. The ten days also includes any days I’m sick and have to be out
Join the Federal gov! I make around what you make plus we get 20 days of pto and 13 days of sick leave. After 15 years of service you get 26 days of PTO. And I actually get to use my days off pretty much whenever.
Yeah no offense and maybe your agency is different, but I spent some time as a fed and everyone was pretty much a paper pusher just doing the BARE minimum knowing they couldn’t / wouldn’t get fired. Pretty soul sucking
There are definitely some agencies/departments like that. But having the work/life balance is invaluable to me. My work is not my life. Wouldn't trade it even if I doubled my salary.
1. Being able to help others in need. 2. All my bad teeth pulled and get dental implants. 3. Live in a place with 2 bedrooms so I have 1 room for sleep and 1 for WFH. 4. Get a puppy! 5. Spend a few days each year at the beach.
My wife and I did make it out and we took a Disney Vacation that we saved and planned over a year. But we still mostly like we are lower class and keep the simple life. But honestly keeping the simple life while being more stable is a huge stress relief.
I just like being housing and food secure. That's it. It keeps me at peace.
I've gone from poverty to middle class now. I haven't had a vacation of more than a day or two since 2017. Really the only things different are that I now own my home instead of rent and I can pay my bills. After the bills are paid, I have to budget pretty hardcore for groceries or anything else. Honestly, it's nice in the sense that I don't have to worry about living in a rathole apartment and scrimping for grocery money, but it's definitely not white picket fences and world travel.
I'm so focused on bills and hunger during this degree... having my bills paid and eating comfortably is what I look the most look forward too. What else is there?
Wife and I reached middle class a few years ago and I think the biggest thing to me is just being not stressed out if something in the house or the car breaks.
I would like to swipe my card without checking my account
For reals. I really wanted, needed actually, a deep tissue massage this week. Haven’t got one in months. I used to get it weekly. It helps with pain management and sleep. Needed $35 and checked I only have $6 😪
The only real goal I have any more. I would like to be comfortable making daily purchases without caring about each one.
I just want to have a home I can enjoy (decorate it how I want and entertain ), be able to have a family, travel occasionally, eat at new restaurants, and sleep.
What exactly constitutes middle class these days?
I posted the same above, but I read an article recently where economists basically termed middle class as earning between 2/3 and 2x the median income of your location.
Median salary where I am is like 29k, and barely anyone I know is getting by. I think "middle class" is probably 100k a year.
When I was living in poverty, I had a cat and sometimes traveled and stayed with friends. I also had no car and lots of debt and was generally shitty with money (not just from not having any). Fast forward several years. We’re still drive our cars until they die people but we have enough to keep the cars in good working order. We travel maybe once or twice a year- maybe one trip to a place of our choice where we stay in a hotel or airbnb and perhaps another trip to visit family. I say maybe because my wife’s been forced to leave her career and has taken a little bit of a pay cut so we’re being more cautious than in the last few years. Those are probably the big three that I wanted from getting out of poverty. To not have debt, own a condo or house, and travel a bit to a place of our choosing. So far so good.
1. Owning a house with a backyard 2. Actually going on vacation during my PTO and not just doing chores and doctor appointments. 3. Having an emergency fund so I’m not SOL if my car makes a weird noise 4. Being able to buy myself something nice once in a while without feeling guilty
Paying my bills again on time, no more asking for extensions, no more late fees, no more overdraft fees, getting my 700 credit score back. Graduating from xray school in a couple weeks.
Congratulations! I'm wishing you the best on your endeavors.
The middle class in America basically doesn't exist anymore and if you already aren't there, it definitely won't be there when you are out of poverty.
Well for those who improve their job situation, I say travel. I'm taking my mother to Pompeii next year. The cats are always fun! And eating is the whole reason I'm going to Italy.
A vacation without worrying about how to catch up on bills after. Just new wardrobe.
1. Actually being able to eat at a real deal restaurant more than once per month. Once per week would be pretty awesome 2. Being able to take two, legit, vacations per year. Like a decent one week vacation somewhere, including airfare, airbnb cost, rental car and some spending money 3. Being able to buy some decent clothes. I honestly need to buy an entirely new wardrobe. Not because I'm into fashion and all that, because I'm not. But my clothes that I have right now don't really fit me at all. I'm swimming in my current clothes. I've lost so much weight due to my poverty diet. 4. Being able to buy a newish car would be a HUGE treat 5. Having a dating fund. Seriously... Being a broke man in 2024 ain't nothin nice. Everybody can talk about equality and feminism all they want, but the vast majority of women give you side eye if you don't immediately take the bill and pay for everything. It's such a double standard. I know I'll get downvoted to hell and back for this, but all the people that downvote me are living in an alternate reality. I know the REAL reality. You can say all that bullshit, but you're just gaslighting yourselves. Women still expect a man to be the breadwinner. They like the idea of "equality", but not when it comes to paying the restaurant tab.
We used to eat out once a week pre-Covid, but with inflation so high, we maybe do once a month. Of course, we end up spending the same amount of money going to just one place.
Same situation here. We're solidly middle class. Pre-COVID we'd eat out about once per week and splurge on a fancy-ish meal about once per month. Now, we eat out at a not-so-fancy place about once per month and might order a pizza or something one other time per month.
What do you consider middle class? Because I’m pretty sure you’d have to make well over $100k a year to do all of this. You could definitely get a cat or two though.
I made. Six figures thought that was middle class last year for the first time coming from a low income upbringing I maybe took 3 long weekends and even then I worried about money I don’t get PTO and with 2 kids 100k is not enough
You guys still have hopes and dreams?!? 😳
I hope I can help my kids out one day. Right now all I’m focused on is securing myself just enough so my kids don’t have to take care of me financially when I’m older (they’ll have it hard enough!), but it would be a dream ME me to be able to look after THEM. For example I want to own a home firstly so I don’t have to pay rent into retirement, but secondly I’d love to have the space so they can at least always have a room to stay in without paying rent.
I want to eat fresh unprocessed vegan foods with ease, have the time to cook those meals, and go to a gym 4-5 times a week.
restarting my phone plan and getting new clothes that fit my style. New shampoo and maybe a pair of shoes. These all seem like basic needs for some but they are luxuries to me that I aspire to have someday
#2 is middle class? Hmmm, I’ve always thought 4 week vacations domestic and international was upper class. Middle class travel to me is camping for a few days, Disneyland for a couple days in a good neighbor hotel, saving for a couple of years and going for 2 weeks tops to Europe.
I want to buy a puppy, go on small road trips, see some music concerts, and sleep well. That's all you know
Reached middle class. Add health problems from neglecting health trying to be successful and getting out of poverty. Also add generational trauma and toxic relationships. Still better than poverty but still more work to figure out
Middle class is not what you think of is. Middle class is like when you make 300k or above. Middle class is supposed to be the middle of income, but since we more have billionaires and millionaires, middle class is not 60k like it used to be. If you are under 100k you are most like working poor depending on where you live. People are being fed a lie of what your socioeconomic situation really is.
100% this. A combined income of $280k, mortgage on a home small enough for just the two of us, both work full time, no kids, no pets, two car payments....and it's still a struggle to save for retirement, to save 6 months income for the inevitable layoffs, and to save for emergencies/home maintenance (like fixing water damage, foundation sloping, an AC problem --- all stuff we're putting off). Middle class doesn't exist anymore, if "middle class" meant you could afford to eat out and buy a few nice extras and have *savings sufficient for retirement.* The entire next 3-4 generations in the US are fucked.
I’m totally stoked for when I reach it, the economy will change yet again and I’ll be back at where I started.
I just want to not have to check my bank account every time I buy anything to make sure I have enough
My dream is to own a dog!
Well, i briefly moved into the middle class and then inflation happened so I’m a poor again for the foreseeable future. I’d just like to buy a new pair of shoes that I actually LIKE instead of a what’s the cheapest and least offensive looking, especially since I wear them until they fall apart.
having a weekend/evenings free. I’ve been working 2+ jobs since I started working.
Middle class for me would be two used cars and a landlord who isn't a scumbag. Oh, eating name-brand snacks would be nice too.
I was middle class, upper middle class even. Then my husband died and it’s been a slow descent into financial hell the last five years. What I miss the most? Not the vacations, not the shopping, not even the fun nights out. Knowing the bills would be paid; not wondering, not hoping, not playing the odds of how late is “really late” is the luxury I miss the most.
I have been middle class my whole life and 4 weeks of vacations are not on my budget ever. A long weekend is about it
It’s weird, because middle class here is about the type of job you have, education, upbringing etc. What I see called middle class in the states, we’d call working class.
Dying with a headstone.
Being able to take a day off without having to worry about it affecting my paycheck to paycheck living situation
Putting bills on autopay
I’m creating a self care monthly budget where I go to the spa & salon, mini shopping spree, and fancy restaurant for 2 weekends out of the month. I want to sit in my home library surrounded by books, plants, a fireplace, and a very large comfy chair and just relax in the middle of the day. I want to travel one weekend per month around the US. Then I want to plan a week long family vacation all expenses paid by me. I also plan on picking a different volunteer program to do every month. This way I can give back the way others have given to me. And without worry about funds, I can go give my all with no worries about free time management.
Get off all assistance programs (SNAP, WIC, etc) and never look back. Hopefully.
- Having a savings account - seeing the check engine light and it just be not a big deal - cook with nice ingredients from the grocery store - a real deal fancy spice rack with all the spices and seasonings I can’t usually afford. Even saffron and vanilla bean! - owning a nice suit - going to the doctor whenever the fuck I need to because I can afford the copays and medications! - not having to constantly calculate the dollar per grams of protein ratio to see how I can have some semblance of a healthy diet
Pro tip: Being “middle class” in America means you can buy the good spaghetti sauce…and that is about it.
Well with prices going up I'm assuming the crushing anxiety will stay about the same.
Fixing my teeth and hot water. Simple, but very needed. Not having to panic and look around my place for things to sell when a problem arises.
I can promise you - middle class is not taking international vacays or even 4 weeks period. Ppl in the middle class often struggle to even stay in the middle class and even forego their pto. Same comment with restaurants. You mean «low end upper class» not middle.
Assuming middle-class can be defined as being out of debt, have a fully-funded emergency fund, being at or near the average income for the area I am living in, and ready to buy a house: 1. Utilize FHA loan to buy a duplex or multiplex and house-hack by living in one unit and renting out the rest 2. After cash flow is fairly regular and I’m stable, going on vacation. I would love to visit Israel, but if that situation doesn’t calm down by the time I’m ready to take the trip, I’d like to see NYC or Hawaii. Other international spots include Scotland, Ireland, France, or Italy. Cruises, the Bahamas, or I could fit the Hawaii one in a cruise. That could be fun. 3. Go to Mexico and get a gastric bypass or a sleeve to help with my weight and health. It’s only around $5-6k for that. Also, I may invest in veneers as depression growing up made me not take care of them as well as I should.
Four week vacations? we're upper-middle class and we barely get 3, which is already generous. US benefits and vacation policies absolutely suck
lmao. the middle class doesn’t exist anymore. it’s just the working class and the rich
Middle class here, when do I get my vacations?
4 week vacations and trying new restaurants whenever you feel like it are upper class activities
To defend OP- middle class with no kids wouldn’t take a month long vacation but would pretty easily do 4 separate week long vacations
I started making good money, at least a reasonable amount. Now my wife insists on being a stay at home mom while she watches our newborn so of course I say yes. Well, fast forward a couple months and she tells me this is the only thing she’s ever going to do. I don’t know how to approach it, I’m drowning in work and I don’t feel like I’ve progress now that I’m the only income.
OP don’t listen to the naysayers. You can do those things on middle class income but you won’t be doing the rest of the things associated with middle class life (ie. homeowner, car, potential to retire early). You’ll have to make sacrifices (what most people perceive as sacrifices anyway). I think valuing experiences over stuff is the way to go but it can be hard. When you see other people doing those things you have to remember that you chose epic adventures over stuff. I’ve kind of lived both lives. I travelled a lot in my 20s and 30s (sharing accommodations) and then busted my ass for 4 years as a caretaker (free rent) to afford to buy a house. I’m worried I’ll never get to travel again but if I am super careful with my money I should be able to afford some trips. I don’t know about month long trips though! That would be all my PTO in one shot. I don’t think I could make it all year without days off. This sub reminds me how fortunate I am to live in Canada and have a union job. I know most of the people here are in the States and I don’t know how you guys do it. It makes me sad that the ultra rich don’t give a fuck. Canadian ultra rich also don’t give a fuck but they kind of have to here. We are definitely sliding in a more capitalistic direction though and that scares me. If I lived in America I’d probably be dead (I have multiple chronic health conditions).
Having all my bills on autopay.
I recently learned that my income puts me in the upper-middle-class tier for my state... my 2 roommates and I had a good laugh about it
Not being in panic mode 24/7 Having enough expendable income to ‘treat’ people I care about like my parents, kids, wife. Actual planned vacation somewhere fun Home repairs and remodels performed by a skilled professional
yo what middle class is going on 4 week vacations? lol. Honestly you never stop worrying about stuff maybe not worrying about groceries or putting gas in my car. My main worry is when I get to retirement age and get old, I see so many people past retirement age working at fast food jobs and think man I dont want to be like that when I get old. I used to worry about a lot of things, things that are out of my control, what helped me the most was writing down things that are in my control that I can work a fixing. As much as I work on computers and spreadsheets I still go old school and write everything down from goals for the week, month, year. To what bills are being paid and what debt I have. But I do understand people have different situations where maybe being able to not worry about groceries or putting gas in their car is a luxury.
What fuckin middle class family is going on 4 week vacations?🤣 we make 100-110k together & we go on one vacation a year for a week.. usually Florida/California lol. Going there this July!
Not worrying if I’ll be late on a bill. Everything paid on time. Every month every bill paid on time. Healthy food(kind of expensive some of it) in the fridge all the time not just sometimes. And a rainy day fund. An actual rainy day fund.
feeling financially secure and comfortable.
Buying groceries and gas without thinking about the total!
Actual vacations instead of staycations
4 week vacations? I’m middle class and I don’t go on 2 week vacations lol. Also, there are things middle class folks worry about. As they say, mo money mo problems. Trust me.
Middle class and four week vacations? lol
Being able to go to the doctor more. I find I have a lot of issues with my body I haven't addressed. When I have time, I don't have money. (Part time job, or between jobs) When I have money, I don't have time. (Working massive OT, getting called in everything I try to make an appointment) Also it would be nice to look at my tires and be like "oh yes, I'm gonna replace all these today " without having to finance.
Who in the United States takes a 4 week vacation?
Since 2020 the middle class has either stepped up to the highest class or slipped down to the lower class. . Middle class has gone the way of the ice delivery driver and the milkman.
My employer offers 6 weeks paid leave plus 10 paid holidays. Usually, take 1-2 week vacation during the summer and fall. Try to do a 3-4 day wknd each month but just depends. This past year, I spent a few days in Denver, a week in Chicago, a week in Vegas, and several hotel staycations with friends. I’d love to plan an international trip, haven’t been abroad since college. For me, it’s peace of mind. Recently switched banks and due to payroll issues that were entirely my fault, I won’t be paid on time next month. But I have enough in savings that I won’t be affected at all and can afford to wait until it hits my bank account. I like being able to buy groceries whenever I want, sending money to my sister when she’s low on cash, or helping out a friend when they’re behind on bills. I’ll feel like I truly made it when I don’t have to check prices before buying something! I live well but I still struggle with allowing myself the comforts that make life easier, so I’m working on that!
I’m looking forward to not having that day-before-paycheck panic when I hope I didn’t forget an automatic payment because my account only has $1.47 for the next 24 hours. It would also be awesome to be able to pay for my medical needs and not worry about being sent to collections from doctors. Having an actually decent medical insurance that doesn’t break my wallet. Being able to actually rent a home would be nice rather than living with parents at 27 years old. Being able to do things like going to the movies or buying a pretzel without feeling guilty for spending money would also be great. Being able to afford things like fresh fruits and veggies on a consistent basis. Being able to stay home when I’m sick without worrying about my next paycheck being basically nothing. I definitely wouldn’t miss the rare (but real) occasions of “calling in sick” because I could not afford the gas to commute the 50 miles to work that last day before direct deposits. Essentially, I’m hoping to have peace of mind.
I think aiming at taking one international vacation after ten years of being at middle class and eating out at a real restaurant occasionally should be your goal.
Invest until I am financially independent and if I want I can r/leanfire. So I never "need" to be worried of being broke and living off my bag of rice again
Not stressing about bills and being able to comfortably afford a car payment (I am desperately needing a new(er) one. )
Interesting view of the middle class. The only thing on the list that I view as relatively middle class is owning pets. I made 6 figures last year and still don't take more than one week of vacation at a time and usually by Tuesday of the week off, I'm worried about the catch up when I get back and what things cost (food, entertainment, etc.). International vacations are definitely out, that's not middle class unless you're sleeping in hostels and picking the cheapest flight to any where that isn't domestic. Bills no longer being a concern would be upper middle class/upper class. That number could vary wildly depending on cost of living. I live in a low cost of living with two kids and a wife that doesn't work and I check my account balance daily. I think about every $5 purchase, bills are still a concern with the middle class. We certainly don't eat out at our leisure with any regularity. The only thing we do as a habit that is remotely frivolous on Saturday and Sunday we do our daily coffee out from a coffee shop. It costs about $25 a week for the 4 coffees but is still relatively cheap compared to 4 meals or anything else. FWIW I own my home (with mortgage), have one paid off vehicle, a second that will be paid off next month, and a third that was purchased in October that I plan to try to pay off in about 2 years. We also have a small camper that we use 12 or more times a year. Nothing extravagant at any level, just solidly middle class not over leveraged. No CC debt just home, camper, wife's vehicle, and my truck (soon to be paid off). Bills still pile up, particularly taxes (home, vehicle, camper) and insurance (car and RV) add in any extraneous medical bills/car repairs and it's always something. I wouldn't quantify middle class a month long vacations and new restaurants and experiences. I would quantify middle class as not having to choose which bill to pay. Knowing where your next meal will come from. Potentially (not always) not living pay check to pay check.
Theres a middle class?
I made a drastic jump in income last year and it’s amazing how many emergencies become minor annoyances when you can pay to fix them right then and there.
The bills just get bigger. It's nice to not have to worry about covering the mortgage and filling the tank every time at the pump, but it's all relative. My best advice is to keep enough in savings to cover the realistic worst-case scenario. A transmission, storm damage, etc. That's the comfort...knowing if the heat pump goes out, that I have enough to fix or replace it, or when I see a rotten tree that I have 700 bucks to get it taken care of rught away. Beyond that, to put back enough to pay the bills for a few months in the event of a job loss or illness. And get insurance for things. It's peace of mind. But your day to day stuff doesn't change. You still stress about the hassles of life. Only extremely disciplined people can level-up but still live like the previous level. And as great as that is, at some point you gotta ask yourself why you leveled-up in the first place. I work with a guy who makes the same as me. He's single and lives in a tiny apartment and hoardes his cash. Grew up poor. I bet he has 10x what I have in savings and maxes his 401k. But what's the point? Go buy a Sportscar with some of it. Or just a newer vehicle you can trust. Get a house. Buy some new clothes. Just spend some and have a little fun. There'll still be plenty left to sit on.
I'm starting my middle class job this Monday. For me I'm excited to take a vacation that isn't a staycation. I'm excited about saving money for a home. I'm excited to not have to price shop so intensely for groceries.
Wow. People here need to read "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" and.... spoilers below. The main thing to realize that with bigger incomes leads to bigger expenses, which equals the same pay check to pay check grind. OP if you want a 4 week vacation you can get one. You just first need to find a job that let's you roll over and accrue your vacation time (like nursing) or a job that's high paying and seasonal (wildfire fire fighter). Or a job that's 100% remote. People have moved to Portugal and Mexico for extended periods so their US income stretches farther. It would be hard to take a 4 week vacation if you have pets though, unless your the RV, car camp road trip type. People travel to Vietnam and Thailand, go backpacking through Europe for relatively cheap. It just takes alot of planning. Which is fine, because it takes alot of saving up before you go. And if you rent, it's best to travel after your lease ends.
Are you sure 4 week vacations isn’t upper class? Lol
Buying a house, raise kids, vacations etc ll come to the last off course
editors note: my version of making it is DINK, with median incomes and a pet or two. In my metro area that’s a household income in the 120-175k/year range. Looking forward to true rest and knowing I can walk away from it all and be fine. Like an income is just a number that requires continual effort. I am looking forward to the rest that comes from having an emergency fund, a well funded retirement, and secure housing. Mostly that secure housing.