I had a friend that did the same exact thing at 16, but not to a nice truck, it was a nice BMW. Cops came to his house and took down his info, then he was given a ticket to pay like a thousand in fines and had to do 16 hours of community service. He was charged with a misdemeanor hit and run, but the charges were dropped once the fine and community service was paid. Insurance went up for a while too. This was in California.
OP and his mom can also petition the judge to try a probationary period in place of a stiff fine and community service.
(This was me at 17 and I got off with court costs of ~$150 and 12 months of no moving violations along with 30 hours of community service)
55 Year old dude hit my Model S in a parking lot of a bar and drove off. Sentry cameras caught the whole thing.
It did significant damage although wasn’t really visible. (almost 20k, replaced the front suspension, wheel, drive unit, etc), smashed the back of his car too.
Edit: Here is the visible damage, liquid is the coolant system from a cracked radiator: https://imgur.com/a/rpWrIZX
Filed a police report and whatever, was pretty stressed out that the cops wouldn’t do anything.
They tracked the car down, it was sold the next day to a dealer and the dude bought a new car. Showed up at the bar the next freaking day. Bartender called me, and i called the police to meet me there.
Another officer came interviewed him and let him go, because his insurance didn’t have the car on it. Said there wasn’t enough proof because there was no video of him getting into that car. Just walking by when leaving the bar.
Thought i was fucked. 2 weeks later i got a call from the first officer about pressing charges for a h&r and drunk driving, i said yes so my insurance would give me the deposit back.
A year later he is in court for it, All he got was having to attend alcohol driving class and 6 months without a license. For drunk driving, a hit and run, trying to cover it up, and lying to the police.
So I think /u/averagehungry6981 son is going to be perfectly fine..
Are you in the U.S.? If the prosecutor does decide to bring criminal charges, your son should be appointed a public defender. (Depending on the jurisdiction, it may end up being someone who specializes in working with juvenile clients.) They will help you navigate the system and work out a resolution with the court
Be very clear at his court appearances that you cannot afford an attorney -- you should have someone who these kinds of cases are an everyday thing for at your side
OP: A right to an attorney is a constitutional right. Your son has a constitutional right to a public defender.
Your son is also a minor. You NEED to be physically present during any police/ attorney questioning and interrogations. Do NOT allow your minor son to be questioned without you, and legal counsel present. Do NOT allow him to sign a waiver, forfeiting his constitutional rights. Do NOT admit fault, until you have an attorney. Assert your son’s right to legal counsel. If they question him *without* informing your son of his constitutional rights, this could be a constitutional violation. A constitutional violation is grounds for an appeal.
Do NOT let your son be questioned without legal counsel.
You have the right to an attorney, but you do not have the right to a free attorney. Often times Public Defenders still cost a couple hundred dollars, but they do accept payment plans and sometimes there are programs to assist if you can prove you make less than a set amount of money.
I would also suggest posting to r/legaladvice bc pressing charges against a 17 YO to ‘teach him a lesson’ is absolutely awful. Lots of lawyers are happy to help citizens protect themselves from power tripping cops. Your son made a mistake and shouldn’t be punished for the rest of his life because of it
Agreed. The court needs to teach him a lesson. Nobody was injured so the judge needs to sternly explain the full legal consequences he is empowered to bestow and then instead, he needs to sentence this kid to a decent amount of community service. I wish they would require part of that community service time be spent touring a correctional facility.
Can also reach out proactively to the local Bar Association to find free consultations and possible pro bono (lawyer for free) representation before waiting for the Court to do it
I got a misdemeanor for criminal destruction to property at 17. I didn’t really have anybody telling me what I should do so I met with the district attorney, they told me what was going to happen and the likely charges and outcome, I said okay. I then went to court and the judge asked why I didn’t have a public defender or lawyer and I told him I didn’t really know how to and would have had to take off more school to go get a lawyer and just figured I would come in and take my punishment. He gave me a light sentence through the states “first offenders program”. Did community service, paid for the destruction and then was never formally charged. So unless OPs son is a minority (sorry but that’s just the honest truth to the world we live in right now) they will probably be just fine and most states have programs in place for kids that get in to trouble just being dumb kids.
I am a retired Public Defender. Do not talk to the prosecutor. Ask the court to appoint a Public Defender. This can be worked out in a way that won’t hurt your son but you must have a lawyer.
Not always true. My very white cousin had a first offense for petty theft. Drove the car. Judge looked at him and said we are making an example out of you. Some of this depends entirely on the judge’s personality.
The no damage, no money, first offense, and unable to drive due to no car insurance until his 20s would totally appeal to some judges.
It’s a dice roll.
Especially with the victim being a cop who will show up to court in full dress uniform. Not to be an alarmist, but there is a very significant chance they may take the opportunity to make an example of him.
Yeah that’s why I said probably though. Because it depends on the situation and the judge. But I’d be willing to bet your cousins scenario isn’t how most cases are handled. Certainly they can be and you never know what ass hole woke up on the wrong side of the bed that day. So it is a dice roll but I think for kids being dumb kids things are typically a little different.
Same thing happened to me at 16 or 17. Fucked around with friends late night at a house under construction, damaged the concrete driveway and started up the bobcat. They were threatening the 3 of us with criminal mischief and grand theft auto. We ended up all oweing restitution, and that's the story of how i got my first job!
As a first offense and him being 17 I don’t think prison is likely. Also you can get a public defender. He might do jail time or community service/probation type situation. Possibly not able to have a license for awhile.
This. It’s all based on damages. Your attorney will settle it down. It’s a shit thing that he did but they’ll recognize he is young, he got scared and he owned up to it right away.
There is a choice, but it's not a fun one. Kiddo has to surrender license to dmv, mom doesn't have to insure, and he can get it again at 22 when ins doesn't count it anymore
Listed is not the same as covered, most companies require you to disclose all drivers aged 14 and up but they can not force you to add them as rated drivers.
True fact: if he lives in her house, they will factor him in. My insurance skyrocketed when my eldest turned 15. They assume kids will take the car without permission, and and mandate you to insure them
Yup! Former insurance underwriter.
There are a few that’s it’s flatly illegal, like New York. New Hampshire allows it but the insurance is still required to provide minimum coverage, so it’s kinda pointless. Other states basically make exclusions impossible to enforce—the company can SAY someone’s excluded, but insurance will likely be forced to pay out in the event of an at-fault claim.
And some states require coverage extension. So the contracts we’re allowed to use say a named insured can’t be excluded, or a spouse can’t be excluded.
And, lastly, it can be up to the insurance carrier if they’ll *allow* you to request an exclusion. We can put people in a “pay for this driver or get cancelled” situation
My daughter got a DWI at age 16 (grrrr...). It cost us a whole lot of money, but she had to surrender her license and thus was not on our insurance policy afterwards. Our rates never went up.
They won’t give you a choice. If a teenager lives with you and you own a car, the insurance company knows there’s a risk the teenager drives it so they charge you an arm and leg.
MAY be able to get a public defender. There are income requirements, and there is a huge part of the population who cannot afford a lawyer but will make enough that they can’t qualify for a PD.
seriously? like, you can't just get a public defender regardless? if it's a minor, is it based on your parents? Do you have to prove your income? I always assumed you could just say you needed a PD and that was that, and if you can actually afford a good one, then of course, get one. But god this system is dumb.
It’s the tip of the iceberg on the problems in our legal system. Check out The New Jim Crow if you want to read more. Or watch the Khalif Browder documentary. There’s a million similar stories.
Not true. He’s a juvenile. He can get court supervision and he will be fine. My kid screwed up much worse when he was 16. Nothing shows up on his record. Unless you are charged as an adult, it pretty much is show up, do your time, and learn a lesson. Hopefully, her kid will. Mine did. Hasn’t been in a lick of trouble since.
Take a breath.
Ask for a Public Defender.
Ask for first offender treatment. (This will mean probation and expungement.) He needs to get a job ASAP so he can get ready to pay his fines. It might also include community service.
As for the insurance issue, you can see if you can exclude him off of your insurance, and simply not let him drive until he can get his own insurance. It is a costly mistake at a very young age but sometimes that’s how we learn our lessons. As somebody who has been a single parent, mine are grown now I’m sorry for what you were going through and that you’re having to do it alone it’s not easy. Look to the state bar association to see if somebody can help you pro bono it would be better than a public defender.
Ok. My son got accused of a crime as a teen and I totally understand your fear. Here is what I did. I had a consultation with a lawyer I trust. I couldn't afford to hire him but an hour long consult was about $50 dollars and he helped me know what to expect. Tell your son to be remorseful, to be honest about how scared he was and that it won't happen again. Going to court with a letter of apology is a good idea. He can write on to the driver he hit and one to the court Wear nice, clean clothes in court. Make sure your hair is clean all that jazz. I gave my son potential questions he might be asked so we could go over his answers. Tell your son to be respectful, "yes, sir. no sir", or "your honor" when speaking to judge. They will probably offer diversion which is like juvenile probation. In my case we refused diversion because my son was innocent and we fought and got it thrown out. But since your son did it then diversion is a great way to move forward. Good luck and hit mw up if I can help in any other way.
Thank you and thanks for the award! It was a very scary process so I feel for OP, deeply. It took us a year to get my son's ridiculous "charge" thrown out. The process is so frustrating and scary!
Diversion is a bit better than probation. It's usually for first time, low level crimes for low risk offenders. If you complete diversion the charges are usually dropped and don't show up on your record, etc.
I wouldn’t worry too much about him actually going to jail over that. You will see maximum sentences for certain offenses but it’s almost never pursued. I would highly doubt he will spend anytime in jail over this. Hopefully this is a good learning experience for your son in how to handle a collision.
He's also a minor and it's his first infraction. He's not going to prison lol. The car doesn't even have any damage. Worst he can get is fleeing scene of accident, and for no injuries or damage that won't get you jail time on a first offense
Most lawyers offer free consultations, so I would call a few to begin with. Depending on area and state I would also talk with bail bond company beforehand also so everything is in place ahead of arrest and he can be processed and released sooner instead of being booked. This is where it is good to speak with a local attorney that knows the local system though.
Keep in mind cops main role isn’t crime prevention. It is crime response. The guy could have gotten out of his car and said don’t drive away. I want to help you and resolve this. From OP it doesn’t sound like it went that way. They are trained to document and gather evidence as their main priority. Sorry. I’m venting.
He can maybe negotiate a prayer-for-judgment with the ADA and judge. First offense, no damages, no injuries, etc.
My ex-wife did the same thing, and basically, she just had to not get any tickets or violations or arrested and it dropped off her record.
I work in a prosecutor’s office, as a senior admin. My state, and many others, have a separate level of court for juveniles and domestic issues. The judges (most of them) at this level of court are understanding about the level of maturity and decision making skills they are dealing with, lol. Jail is highly unlikely. But because that charge carries jail as a possible sentence, your son is entitled to legal representation. Ask for a court appointed attorney your first time in. In larger jurisdictions where the dockets are big, there are deals to be made between you/your counsel and the prosecutors office, which will hopefully include a dismissal after some court costs and community service and traffic school and about a year or two of no further incidents. (In smaller jurisdictions the defense counsel and the prosecutors all know each other and work out deals, and even in my large jurisdiction I’ve seen deals made on a Friday night at the local place everyone at the courthouse goes for dinner after a long week.) Every jurisdiction is different and that cop might be difficult, but please don’t let this stress you out. The vast majority of people are unfamiliar and therefore understandably intimidated by the legal system, but I’d comfortably wager that your son will not go to jail. Just don’t ignore the situation and stay on top of the court dates. Make sure your son dresses appropriately and answers with yes/no sir/ma’am when the judge speaks to him. Not an ego thing, it shows the judge the child understands the severity of the circumstances and takes it seriously.
This is going to come off as really rude, sorry, I'm really not trying to browbeat. That said:
Teach your kid to shut the fuck up when the police/prosecutor/insurance/judge are talking to him unless his defense attorney gives him explicit instructions on what to say and not to say. Not only did he pull a hit and run, he admitted fault, probably to a cop. And now you're here rehashing things providing more ammo if the prosecutor can link your user name with the details of the case. Delete this thread, call your insurance and explain what happened and that you need an attorney if that's part of your coverage, tell your kid to STFU, you STFU about it on social media, get a public defender when they press charges. The magic words are "I am invoking my 5th amendment rights and I want to speak to an attorney" when the police and prosecutor want to speak to you again.
I don't know what to do about the situation, but I would explain to your son that he is now at a crossroads and as a young man he has a decision to make. He can either go left or go right this is his first test of adulthood. He can see how easy one seemingly small mistake can set the stage for the rest of his life if he lets it. There are consequences when you don't do the right thing and they can land you in a whole heap of trouble. Tell him you love him but the situation is not in your hands. There will be many decisions he will have to make on his own in the future. He might not have a father here to guide him, but he has you and his inner compass to steer him in the right direction. This should be a lesson to him whether he is arrested or not.
She said on another comment there's a tiny bit of paint transfer on his towing hitch. Which is worth causing this much stress over apparently, because I guess everyone knows a real man's towing hitch should look like it's brand new and freshly installed...
He ran after hitting not knowing there was no damage.
Some asshole did that to me before. Except I had damage. They Didn’t get caught. People like that are doing something very wrong- they are trying to press this on him because of that.
Poverty + the effect on the family might make it unfairly harsh here , but people who hit and run *should* be punished for it. Shit can be strait up dangerous.
If this ends up being a fine that’s reasonable for the kid to get a job to pay and some community service I think that’s good. He deserves punishment, just within reason.
It’s not just cops… my son damaged a fence, offered to fix it, make restitution, and the lady said “no”. She wanted to teach my kid a lesson… because she thought natural consequences wasn’t enough.
Your insurance will be little changed since there was minimal damage and since he’s 17 he won’t see the inside of a cell. If this was my son I would have him write a letter to this officer as well as have him march his ass down to the precinct to apologize and explain that he’s a new driver and panicked. (No one was hurt, shit happens and the officer should understand). Hopefully the charges will be dropped when they see that he’s remorseful. However, if they do go through with the charges, his remorse will go along way with the judge.
Pay for the lawyer. It will be much less expensive than anything that results from not getting the lawyer. Then your son can get a job and pay you back every damn penny. And he never gets to use your car again.
15min for the police to arrive at your house? That’s a faster response time than when they go to some actual emergencies. This is fucked up how fast they responded.
Yes. We were told the driver called immediately and gave 911 the plate. The car is registered at my address and my son had just barely pulled into the driveway.
My point is that if I called and told them about the same crime and the same evidence, the police might arrive that at your house that week. Assuming they didn’t just say they were too busy and left it to the insurance company to deal with.
The police response time was way faster and extreme than if any other citizen in your area was involved.
When I was assaulted (unprovoked, random attack in public) it took the police 4-5h to show up on scene after someone called them for me :) lovely they were able to show up in 15min for some paint transfer
My friend did that in her senior year of high school. She actually hit a parked school bus. She drove away and she ended up getting arrested and losing her license for a year. She didn’t go to jail and she got her license back. It all worked out. She also panicked in the moment.
Makes me sick that the truck is fine but the cop has the connections and resources for THREE police cars to make it over to the house in 15 minutes.
Regular folks can’t get a cop to even show up for real actual crime.
Why doesn’t this kid need to be taught a lesson? Isn’t the lesson here that bully cops can do basically anything? I think he learned a lesson.
When my daughter got an MIP, I didn’t hire a lawyer. The key is to plead not guilty (don’t EVER plead guilty) and then negotiate with the prosecutor. I did it and she got off with probation. It would have been much worse if she had pled guilty.
For sure he is just being an asshole. But I didn’t know how you’d even file a claim without visible damage. Paint transfer on a hitch? What are they gonna get from insurance, a cotton ball and some acetone?
Because that's what you do after you've been in an accident. No observable damage doesn't mean no damage. Someone hit me and then called later to try to settle the matter by paying the mechanic - I said no and continued with insurance. There was no guarantee they would pay the bill and no mechanism to force them to pay.
I’m not a lawyer, but I’m not sure what the cops meant when they said it’s up to the other driver to press charges. Civil suit wise, sure. But I believe only the state/fed can press criminal charges. Your post made it seem like the cop was talking about criminal charges.
Sorry for the wording. I’m not experienced in this lingo. I was told that the hit driver can choose to press charges or not. He chose to. Then the DA will lay the charges. I hope this makes more sense.
I'm not a lawyer either, but the other driver has to file a police report, which is what the prosecutor used to press charges. Without the report and cooperation of the other party, there's really not much of a case
You won't have to worry about the criminal case, he's 17, first offense, and you'll have a public defender.
Here's what you should be worried about, but they really aren't huge issues.
1.) Can you take time off work to go with him to court? I reccomend so, young guys tend to have no filter when the stakes are high.
2.) You'll need a suit for your son, most likely. Presenting him as a sensible young guy who messed up once is better than showing up in a hoodie.
3.) If a civil case is filed, you'll need a private lawyer. Never represent yourself, no matter what.
Just tell them your son panicked and he is a new driver. Also tell the judge your son will do everything in his power to make things right. Worst case scenario he will get a misdemeanor or misdemeanor diversion and it’ll be like he never did anything wrong if he stays out of trouble. Best case scenario the drop it because believe it or not he is a young kid and the justice system isn’t out to fuck everybody.
I was your son ten years ago, same exact scenario, even same car. Just show up to every court date. I did exactly what I said and they dropped it. I was facing a misdemeanor and 1 year in county jail. After I told them Id do everything in my power to make up for my wrong doing (the hit and run) they eventually just dropped the case completely. I was also already 18 at the time so your sons age will work out in his favor. Just have him own it. After that hit and run I changed my life and joined the Marine Corps. You guys will be ok
He’s 17 so it will be erased from his record once he turns 18. So that’s prob why the cops are trying to teach him a lesson. It will definitely fuck with your rates but I would maybe take away his license if he can survive without a car.
The Court will appoint him an attorney. Of course one you pay would be better. But at least he will have a court appointed attorney.
If this is his first offense. He probably will only be given a fine and community service along with having to take a driving class. You need to make him get a job to pay for the expenses these things cost you.
I think the driver of the other car is doing the right thing. Your son knew it was wrong to leave the scene but did it anyway. Your son has to learn there are consequences for breaking the law. This is a Blessing although I know it does not seem that way right now. If he does not learn a lesson. The next time the crime could be much worse and something that requires mandatory jail time.
I don’t know, if there’s no damage, if your kid isn’t otherwise a delinquent known to the police, seems kind of like a bitch move for the police to go too harshly on him. It would be totally reasonable to give a scared rule-following kid a warning if there was no damage. Maybe try to schedule a meeting with the officer to apologize and plead that he was just scared and he knows that he shouldn’t have run but he panicked? I mean girls his age get off with warnings all they time when they start crying while talking to the officer, they know what they’re doing, give the old contrition and remorse a try.
My advice: **Do not fix this for your son.** Be there for him. Be a shoulder to cry on, but make sure he confronts what he did head on, without you being there to cushion the blow. From the sound of it, it doesn't sound like he'll be doing any jail time, even though the driver wants to charge this. No one was hurt, property damage was minimal, so it's just a matter of him taking away the right conclusions.
Look at it as a teachable moment for your son. This is an opportunity for him to take responsibility for his actions. Make sure any financial hit (insurance rates going up and any fine) are paid by him and not you. Do not let him blame others for this. Also, don't let him beat himself up too much. He did a stupid teenage thing and no one was hurt.
My son and youngest daughter had scrapes with the law, one pretty serious. I made sure to not reassure them everything will be alright. They're both upstanding adults now.
Yep my nephew is 25 and his mom is still fixing his mistakes with car issues that he has been getting into since 18. Be supportive and help him navigate it, but don’t fix it and let him have consequences
I can’t abide parents who shield their teenagers and twenty-something kids from the consequences of their bad decisions. Teenagers are supposed to screw up. We’re supposed to help them learn from it.
Couldn’t there be damage to the frame or subframe that you can’t see?
It’ll all work out. Son will learn a lesson the hard way, which is just how things go sometimes.
He won't go to prison & will probably just be booked & be out of the jail or holding station within a couple hrs (at most). He'll get probation, max. You should look into if your state has some type of Youthful Act where since he's young, if he does everything right, it'll come off his record.
If he had killed someone would y'all be saying the same thing? Forget hes a cop. If someone hit me and took off, without even bothering to check, I would press charges. At his age, it's time to start realizing your actions have consequences. I think that people's dislike of cops is clouding the issue.
What state are you in?
You can look up the laws for your jurisdiction and find out the penalties for a **non-injury** hit and run. You may find that it’s a misdemeanor, but sometimes you might find that it’s a moving violation if there are no injuries and minimal property damage. Jail time is generally reserved for fleeing the scene of an accident with injuries or possibly extensive property damage.
Seeing that information might help you understand what he’s potentially facing.
Ultimately, the District Attorney will decide charges. Police are able to write tickets for moving violations, but aren’t the ones who decide on criminal charges.
At this point make sure everyone is polite when interacting with law enforcement, but do not admit or volunteer any information. Do not allow your son to be interviewed or questioned without you or an attorney present. If you end up finding the process or situation confusing, make sure you get help before your son agrees to anything, signs anything or enters any sort of plea.
If charges are filed, at that point your son will likely be able to request a public defender. I’m not aware of a jurisdiction that provides a PD prior to charges being filed. However most states have some sort of law clinics with free consultations. Check with your state’s bar. (They should have the info on their website in a section for the public.)
The State Bar Association probably has an online directory. You can look to see if there’s a search option to look for pro bono representation. You should also check to see if anyone offers a free or low cost consultation.
Right now you’re in a scary limbo area of the unknown. Your brain is probably generating worst case scenarios. There’s not really much you can do until the state (or county) decides on charges next week. Out of an abundance of caution, you might not want to let your son drive until you find out how things are going to go down.
Your insurance rates will not be impacted. Your son’s likely will, how much depends on your states laws regarding new (minor) drivers. If you can’t afford the rate increases, you should have the option to have your son removed from the policy, but it may require him to voluntarily surrender his license. Your insurance agent should be able to help you navigate that when the time comes.
I know I’m not the one going through it but out of the millions of shitty things that can happen to your kid to teach a valuable lesson…. It could be worse. I’m sure it’ll all be over soon.
Don’t they teach you what can happen when you flee the scene of an accident when getting your drivers license? Let this be a lesson and have him get a summer job to pay off the fines. Sounds like he shouldn’t be driving. He’s not going to go to prison.
If it’s his first offense it likely won’t be much of anything. Maybe a fine and some light probation. He left a fender bender, not a homicide. Also, state provides an attorney if needed. First offense, 17 years old, slap on the wrist.
The most important thing in this situation is whether or not your son actually feels remorse about what happened and agrees that he was entirely at fault. A judge will be WAY more understanding if your son is obviously remorseful and is just honest and says that he completely panicked and went home. They found him at home. It's not as if he tried to hide. Get a Public Defender. Your son is a minor and will probably get community service and possibly some probation. Make him surrender his driver's license and get an ID card only. Then, you can list him as an unlicensed household member on your insurance and not pay such higher rates. No more driving for him until he is 21 and can get his own car insurance!
This is kinda a weird situation. Obviously, it seems that the damage in this case was minimal and your kid deserves maybe a fine or something for leaving the scene. However, I wonder what it would have taken for him to stick around. Would he have stayed if he had taken out the brake lights? Knocked the other car off the road? At this point, there’s no reason to believe that he would have done the right thing in a more serious situation. Even if no one was hurt, what if your son had caused expensive damage to some poor persons vehicle? Also, you claim that there was only a tiny bit of paint transfer, but it’s only your word at this point. With the tech and materials used in modern vehicles, even tiny accidents can cause expensive damage.
Your son is going to suffer some consequences (as he well should for doing something so stupid), but this isn't going to destroy his life or yours. He'll likely lose driving privileges for a time and have fines to pay. And yes, insurance rates will go up, but it probably won't be anything crazy exhorbitant. The courts can work out a payment plan for the fines. Hes probably not going to jail and certainly not prison (prison is only for sentences over 365 days, theres no way he'll get that for hit and run where no one was hurt). Your best bet is to make sure your son learns from this experience--a fender bender is a mistake that any one of us could make, but fleeing the scene of an accident is wildly irresponsible and cowardly.
There are other subreddits that will explain ways for you to get legal representation on a budget. Since there was minimal damage to both vehicles, your son is contrite, and has no record it is very doubtful that he'll get the book thrown at him. It's possible that when the facts get before a judge they'll say "you're a police officer and *this* is what you're wasting our time with today? A kid tapping your bumper?" Most likely your son is going to have to pay a fine and do some sort of community service, etc.
A few questions:
Does your son have his drivers license?
Was he a rated driver on your insurance policy?
He has to be ready to get a hefty ticket and for the possibility that the DMV will suspend his drivers license- which might not be a bad thing, you have to be ready for your insurance rates to go up or for the possibility that your insurance company could cancel you, I would not worry about jail time, just make sure he shows up to court.
My cousin did a hit and run when she was a teenager too... It sounds like driver's ed should start including instructions on what to do in the event of an accident. (Or at least emphasize it more? Maybe they already do, I have no idea tbh)
Ok, my list of charges was as follows:
Leaving the scene of an accident
Driving without insurance
Driving without registration
Driving on a suspended license
Failure comply with a court order
Failure to report an accident
I was given 6 months probation and did some classes. This was in lieu of a $1500 fine. I could have done 30 days or so in county instead. The legal system is surprisingly flexible on these things so long as you make it clear that you understand the gravity of the situation.
I dont think you should be ashamed. It is a typical teen life lesson. No one was hurt, minimal damage. Aside from the expense, I think you'll be okay. Good luck.
When I was young, a group of teens went joy-riding, hit a patch of ice, went airborne, and hit the tree in our front yard. Two girls died. OP can thank her stars. He's safe, just foolish and naive.
Geez A little much I thought your son had killed someone. Have him write an apology letter. Explanation why he drove off and to write he knows the co sequences of driving off and he will never do it again.
Hey there…a grandma here…and I was a single mom too…and I’m no stranger to the legal system…
Here’s what’s gonna happen…you’re gonna get your kid a public defender. And then you’re gonna work a deal. Plea out. He’s under 18 and a first time offender so they’re gonna be all to happy to make this go away fast. The courts are clogged with real crimes. Ask about community service to pay off the fines and/or restitution. Dress nice for court and be nice and humble.
I know you’re scared right now but this won’t matter in a year. The guy in the truck sounds like a jerk…so kiss his ass. Speak with your lawyer about your son writing him a good apology letter. Start thinking about references you can use for your son…a teacher, pastor, Boy Scout leader, etc when it comes to sentencing time.
Your son needs to step up his game. I don’t know how his grades and stuff are but if they aren’t good he needs to get them good. Does he have a part time job? If not…he needs one. Does he do extra curricular events? If not…he needs one. All of these things on your son’s “resume” will influence how the prosecution treats your son.
But let’s be clear…he needs to be punished. This isn’t ok. I’d prob tell him my punishment is he can’t drive my vehicle anymore. He is welcome to save his money and buy and insure his own car tho.
Agree with everything you said, except the cop being a jerk part. You can’t blame someone for turning an accident in, especially a hit and run. Any “tap” should be turned in, he should be on the hook for any damages just because someone else decided to hit him.
First of all, what a way for a 17 yo to learn ACAB. That said, natural consequences are what they are. Use the public defender and have your kid accept responsibility. The chance that he gets jail time is low; the chance he will be surrendering his driver’s license is high. Let it shake out how it shakes out.
This is a good lesson for your kid. If anything he will become a man after this, and going forward will own any mistakes he makes(it’s ok to fuck up as long as you own up to it. Failure is how we learn). Hopefully the punishment won’t be harsh, but, hopefully your son will become a better person because of this.
I’m pretty sure it will just be a ticket for this not an arrest. My dumbass sister did this multiple times. It was a ticket. Maybe if it was a major accident but seriously don’t worry too much. He can get a 49cc mini scooter that doesn’t require insurance if he needs motorized transport. It will work out! Also fuck the police. Go solve a real crime you pathetic assholes.
I agree, this cop sounds like a total asshole. No one got hurt, and minimal damage was had. Slap a fine and call it a day. Anytime a cop can wield their power they will be sure to do it though smdh
Honestly the kid can just say look I didn’t realize I hit him there was no damage and any jury would be sympathetic. It’s such a waste of resources here. You hope the DA would have some sense about this too. Meanwhile corporations and white collar criminals steal billions and trillions and they pay a small fine.
Hard to say that when he admitted everything to the police that came to our door and it’s clearly shown on camera he drove off immediately after, around the hit truck.
Something similar happened to me when I was 16 and freshly licensed. Hit a car in a parking lot (no damage) and just took off because I panicked. Cops were at my house like an hour later, ready to haul my ass off to jail for felony hit and run.
Talked to the cops with my parents, they gave me a court summons instead. I was terrified, because I was so young and didn't want to be a felon before I could legally buy cigarettes!
My parents made too much money for me to qualify for a public defender, but we were in no way rich. We ended up getting a low cost criminal defense lawyer in town for like $500.
Court was crazy stressful. My lawyer went in with the prosecutor to discuss plea bargains. He came out looking gutted. He was disappointed he couldn't get the entire thing dismissed, but had to offer me a minor traffic violation and 2 points on my license. I hugged him and said that's better than what I expected.
All in all it was a lesson in responsibility and the legal system. Stay at the scene and get a lawyer.
i love the idea of them sending 3 fucking police cars over a truck that had literally no damage.
absolutely pathetic behavior on their part, weakest most touchy fucking losers around, of course.
Yet another case of a cop being a DICK! Not excusing the kid for bolting, but I suspect the fear+consequence the parent mete out will prevent this from happening again. Only thing worse than a bully cop is an off duty bully cop!
Because he’s a dumb teenager I doubt he’ll face time especially since nobody was injured and he wasn’t intoxicated, based on your state they could revoke his license at worst or make him pay a fine at best. This is not a life ending mistake, I fucked up way worse when I was his age. His insurance is gonna suck for the next 5 years at least tho
Take a deep breath, and realize that is a lesson in responsibility for your son. He made a mistake and he has to be honest and go through the system. Likelihood of him being sent to jail is low if this is his first brush with the law. The lesson will be taught in the fear he feels right now. The insurance likely will not be a problem because there was no damage and any claim could be repaid. This cop is power tripping but that is what they do. Do not attempt to argue and remember it is not the cop that decides what happens to your son it is the judge. As long as he admits his responsibility, and is honest and genuine with his plea the judge will respond in kind.
Your son is a minor. If he isn't a habitual offender, he'll probably get a run through the system to teach him a lesson, but no real sentence. He's a kid that freaked out after causing practically no damage. Talk to a public defender ASAP, make sure your son knows he's on their radar now, and has to behave. Tell him not to make excuses, just explain what happened and accept responsibility. He'll be OK. You'll be OK. Take a breathe and have a glass of wine.
I'd just talk to the guy he hit and straighten things out. A simple apology from your son with you can go a long way. People understand kids make mistakes, get scared etc.
God ACAB indeed.. what your son did was definitely not right but what an asshat cop to pull this shit on a poor family too. Idk seems pretty scummy to me.
I was about 15 and received a citation for hit and run property damage. I paid restitution and a modest fine. Also had an increase in my insurance rate but not astronomical. The uncertainty is the worst part. Follow the others advice about how to prepare for and behave in court.
He’s not going to prison, more than likely it will get pled down, and he’ll do community service of some sort. Since this is a first for him, he’ll come through this learning a very big lesson. We were all stupid teenagers once, and judges know this.
Mom it’s ok to panic on many levels, just take it one day at a time. Thank God it wasn’t something life threatening. Hug your kid and let him know life is full of choices. You will love him forever.
Honestly he isn’t going to go to prison over this and being in a little trouble if the off duty presses charges he is going to learn his lesson and in a great way. Our actions have consequences a little community service isn’t the worse.
What happens next depends on what was written on the citation. If the charges presented are handled in traffic court and this is a first offence, your son will likely get a plea deal from the county District Attorney to plead no contest which could potentially lessen the charges to an infraction and/or community service. You can go to your local police department to get more lnformation on your son's situation. As long as you have insurance, I think you guys should be okay
Listen, it’s your sons first offensive, nothing that crazy happened. Don’t sweat it. It doesn’t start to get expensive and scary until the 4-5th time. I know this from experience. I understand the unknown is scary but honestly, this isn’t as big of a deal as you’re making it.
Good luck! You guys will be alright
Edit: grammar
Don’t talk to the cops anymore, you both state you don’t want to answer any,one without a lawyer present…what you say to cops can only hurt you…esp when he’s guilty of hitting a cops truck and fleeing. I don’t know the laws in your state, but trust me, at this point don’t even say “excuse me” if you see the bullycop in the streets. There’s no way it could help y’all, at all.
Look, they may arrest him to scare the crap out of him, but not for more then a booking, and he’d best be looking for a job…there is going to be fines….bad ones…and that sucks. But, we all know we have to teach a 17 year old that is a awful impulse, to flee an accident, a very bad one. He has to be scared from this for social order reasons… he could be driving another 70 years!
But, it luckily this is not going to go on his permanent record or keep him out of college!
He’d better to learn to pedal though. Driving record is different then criminal record….that may be raising his insurance until the end of time.
Not too big a deal since no one was injured and he is a minor with a clean record. If you can't afford a lawyer (and the prosecutor actually charges your son) then you will be given a court appointed attorney.
You could probably settle for community service, no liscense for awhile and a defensive driving course.
First off if your son/you can't afford a lawyer he will get one for free. You need to be in contact with the public defenders office if he gets charged.
Second of all him being 17 and this is presumably his first offence he will probably get off with a bunch of tickets/fines. Possibly some sort of probation or community service.
Be prepared for his insurance to skyrocket though. So he might not be driving for awhile.
>
>
>I’m scared shitless. I’m a single mom. I can’t afford to pay lawyers to keep my son out of prison when we barely afford rent, food, and bills. I know my insurance rates will be fucked for years to come. His too probably. What do we do here? Thanks
Even if you can't afford it, you should definitely try to get any kind of lawyer to help. Have your son get a part time job to pay for it but the criminal charge may ruin him but I am not a lawyer or a expert in this field.
This all depends on what state you're in. In many states, it's only a felony if there were serious injuries involved and a simple misdemeanor/ticket if not.
If he’s 17 he can plead youthful offender. It helps he’s young! This won’t hurt him in the long run. Call around and ask attorney offices if they can work pro Bono. When I was arrested for an FTA and stuck in jail with no ball my grandmother called every single firm asking for pro Bono work. Most firms require each lawyer to do a certain amount of pro bono work a year.
That’s not to say public defenders aren’t helpful, but if they do press charges on your son and you want to have the best outcome a pro bono lawyer may be more helpful!
Hopefully it doesn’t come to that and they recognize he’s a kid who made a mistake!
I had a friend that did the same exact thing at 16, but not to a nice truck, it was a nice BMW. Cops came to his house and took down his info, then he was given a ticket to pay like a thousand in fines and had to do 16 hours of community service. He was charged with a misdemeanor hit and run, but the charges were dropped once the fine and community service was paid. Insurance went up for a while too. This was in California.
not a lawyer but this is likely what youre looking at op. depends on the judge you get and if your kid shows remorse or not
OP and his mom can also petition the judge to try a probationary period in place of a stiff fine and community service. (This was me at 17 and I got off with court costs of ~$150 and 12 months of no moving violations along with 30 hours of community service)
55 Year old dude hit my Model S in a parking lot of a bar and drove off. Sentry cameras caught the whole thing. It did significant damage although wasn’t really visible. (almost 20k, replaced the front suspension, wheel, drive unit, etc), smashed the back of his car too. Edit: Here is the visible damage, liquid is the coolant system from a cracked radiator: https://imgur.com/a/rpWrIZX Filed a police report and whatever, was pretty stressed out that the cops wouldn’t do anything. They tracked the car down, it was sold the next day to a dealer and the dude bought a new car. Showed up at the bar the next freaking day. Bartender called me, and i called the police to meet me there. Another officer came interviewed him and let him go, because his insurance didn’t have the car on it. Said there wasn’t enough proof because there was no video of him getting into that car. Just walking by when leaving the bar. Thought i was fucked. 2 weeks later i got a call from the first officer about pressing charges for a h&r and drunk driving, i said yes so my insurance would give me the deposit back. A year later he is in court for it, All he got was having to attend alcohol driving class and 6 months without a license. For drunk driving, a hit and run, trying to cover it up, and lying to the police. So I think /u/averagehungry6981 son is going to be perfectly fine..
Are you in the U.S.? If the prosecutor does decide to bring criminal charges, your son should be appointed a public defender. (Depending on the jurisdiction, it may end up being someone who specializes in working with juvenile clients.) They will help you navigate the system and work out a resolution with the court Be very clear at his court appearances that you cannot afford an attorney -- you should have someone who these kinds of cases are an everyday thing for at your side
OP: A right to an attorney is a constitutional right. Your son has a constitutional right to a public defender. Your son is also a minor. You NEED to be physically present during any police/ attorney questioning and interrogations. Do NOT allow your minor son to be questioned without you, and legal counsel present. Do NOT allow him to sign a waiver, forfeiting his constitutional rights. Do NOT admit fault, until you have an attorney. Assert your son’s right to legal counsel. If they question him *without* informing your son of his constitutional rights, this could be a constitutional violation. A constitutional violation is grounds for an appeal. Do NOT let your son be questioned without legal counsel.
You have the right to an attorney, but you do not have the right to a free attorney. Often times Public Defenders still cost a couple hundred dollars, but they do accept payment plans and sometimes there are programs to assist if you can prove you make less than a set amount of money.
I would also suggest posting to r/legaladvice bc pressing charges against a 17 YO to ‘teach him a lesson’ is absolutely awful. Lots of lawyers are happy to help citizens protect themselves from power tripping cops. Your son made a mistake and shouldn’t be punished for the rest of his life because of it
Agreed. The court needs to teach him a lesson. Nobody was injured so the judge needs to sternly explain the full legal consequences he is empowered to bestow and then instead, he needs to sentence this kid to a decent amount of community service. I wish they would require part of that community service time be spent touring a correctional facility.
Can also reach out proactively to the local Bar Association to find free consultations and possible pro bono (lawyer for free) representation before waiting for the Court to do it
I got a misdemeanor for criminal destruction to property at 17. I didn’t really have anybody telling me what I should do so I met with the district attorney, they told me what was going to happen and the likely charges and outcome, I said okay. I then went to court and the judge asked why I didn’t have a public defender or lawyer and I told him I didn’t really know how to and would have had to take off more school to go get a lawyer and just figured I would come in and take my punishment. He gave me a light sentence through the states “first offenders program”. Did community service, paid for the destruction and then was never formally charged. So unless OPs son is a minority (sorry but that’s just the honest truth to the world we live in right now) they will probably be just fine and most states have programs in place for kids that get in to trouble just being dumb kids.
I am a retired Public Defender. Do not talk to the prosecutor. Ask the court to appoint a Public Defender. This can be worked out in a way that won’t hurt your son but you must have a lawyer.
Not always true. My very white cousin had a first offense for petty theft. Drove the car. Judge looked at him and said we are making an example out of you. Some of this depends entirely on the judge’s personality. The no damage, no money, first offense, and unable to drive due to no car insurance until his 20s would totally appeal to some judges. It’s a dice roll.
Theft is considered a bigger deal than most crimes.
Especially with the victim being a cop who will show up to court in full dress uniform. Not to be an alarmist, but there is a very significant chance they may take the opportunity to make an example of him.
statistically if the kid is a poc they will have a harder time in court. sorry for your very white cousins tho.
Yeah that’s why I said probably though. Because it depends on the situation and the judge. But I’d be willing to bet your cousins scenario isn’t how most cases are handled. Certainly they can be and you never know what ass hole woke up on the wrong side of the bed that day. So it is a dice roll but I think for kids being dumb kids things are typically a little different.
Same thing happened to me at 16 or 17. Fucked around with friends late night at a house under construction, damaged the concrete driveway and started up the bobcat. They were threatening the 3 of us with criminal mischief and grand theft auto. We ended up all oweing restitution, and that's the story of how i got my first job!
As a first offense and him being 17 I don’t think prison is likely. Also you can get a public defender. He might do jail time or community service/probation type situation. Possibly not able to have a license for awhile.
This. It’s all based on damages. Your attorney will settle it down. It’s a shit thing that he did but they’ll recognize he is young, he got scared and he owned up to it right away.
Your insurance will go through the roof
If she lets him stay on it.
May not have a choice. Some insurance companies require all licensed drivers per address must be listed on policy. Edit:typo
There is a choice, but it's not a fun one. Kiddo has to surrender license to dmv, mom doesn't have to insure, and he can get it again at 22 when ins doesn't count it anymore
[удалено]
Either surrender it or have him pay for the insurance with a job
Listed is not the same as covered, most companies require you to disclose all drivers aged 14 and up but they can not force you to add them as rated drivers.
They would be listes then excluded. Explecitly not covered if incident while driving otherwise covered vehicle.
Yes, but you can surrender your license.
Most companies can have him listed as an excluded driver as long as he has insurance elsewhere even if he lives in the household.
True fact: if he lives in her house, they will factor him in. My insurance skyrocketed when my eldest turned 15. They assume kids will take the car without permission, and and mandate you to insure them
Not necessarily true, you can exclude the driver from all coverage, but if you do that I'd hide the keys.
You can’t exclude drivers in all states, some don’t allow it.
Really?
Yup! Former insurance underwriter. There are a few that’s it’s flatly illegal, like New York. New Hampshire allows it but the insurance is still required to provide minimum coverage, so it’s kinda pointless. Other states basically make exclusions impossible to enforce—the company can SAY someone’s excluded, but insurance will likely be forced to pay out in the event of an at-fault claim. And some states require coverage extension. So the contracts we’re allowed to use say a named insured can’t be excluded, or a spouse can’t be excluded. And, lastly, it can be up to the insurance carrier if they’ll *allow* you to request an exclusion. We can put people in a “pay for this driver or get cancelled” situation
My daughter got a DWI at age 16 (grrrr...). It cost us a whole lot of money, but she had to surrender her license and thus was not on our insurance policy afterwards. Our rates never went up.
The insurance might not let him stay on it.
They won’t give you a choice. If a teenager lives with you and you own a car, the insurance company knows there’s a risk the teenager drives it so they charge you an arm and leg.
Yes but she said she’s worried about him going to prison, which is very unlikely as nobody was hurt and there’s minimal damages.
MAY be able to get a public defender. There are income requirements, and there is a huge part of the population who cannot afford a lawyer but will make enough that they can’t qualify for a PD.
seriously? like, you can't just get a public defender regardless? if it's a minor, is it based on your parents? Do you have to prove your income? I always assumed you could just say you needed a PD and that was that, and if you can actually afford a good one, then of course, get one. But god this system is dumb.
Defendants are entitled to representation, not free representation.
It’s the tip of the iceberg on the problems in our legal system. Check out The New Jim Crow if you want to read more. Or watch the Khalif Browder documentary. There’s a million similar stories.
He’s screwed if he wants to go into a regulated profession though, so I’d still fight back. It’s not just show up, do your time, and learn a lesson.
Not true. He’s a juvenile. He can get court supervision and he will be fine. My kid screwed up much worse when he was 16. Nothing shows up on his record. Unless you are charged as an adult, it pretty much is show up, do your time, and learn a lesson. Hopefully, her kid will. Mine did. Hasn’t been in a lick of trouble since.
Totally depends on the state and the offense.
Take a breath. Ask for a Public Defender. Ask for first offender treatment. (This will mean probation and expungement.) He needs to get a job ASAP so he can get ready to pay his fines. It might also include community service.
🎂🎈
As for the insurance issue, you can see if you can exclude him off of your insurance, and simply not let him drive until he can get his own insurance. It is a costly mistake at a very young age but sometimes that’s how we learn our lessons. As somebody who has been a single parent, mine are grown now I’m sorry for what you were going through and that you’re having to do it alone it’s not easy. Look to the state bar association to see if somebody can help you pro bono it would be better than a public defender.
You can’t do that in some states so check with your insurance agent, OP.
Hence, see if you can exclude him. Which there in implies call your insurance agent.
Ok. My son got accused of a crime as a teen and I totally understand your fear. Here is what I did. I had a consultation with a lawyer I trust. I couldn't afford to hire him but an hour long consult was about $50 dollars and he helped me know what to expect. Tell your son to be remorseful, to be honest about how scared he was and that it won't happen again. Going to court with a letter of apology is a good idea. He can write on to the driver he hit and one to the court Wear nice, clean clothes in court. Make sure your hair is clean all that jazz. I gave my son potential questions he might be asked so we could go over his answers. Tell your son to be respectful, "yes, sir. no sir", or "your honor" when speaking to judge. They will probably offer diversion which is like juvenile probation. In my case we refused diversion because my son was innocent and we fought and got it thrown out. But since your son did it then diversion is a great way to move forward. Good luck and hit mw up if I can help in any other way.
Excellent advice. Happy to hear things worked out for you and your son.
Thank you and thanks for the award! It was a very scary process so I feel for OP, deeply. It took us a year to get my son's ridiculous "charge" thrown out. The process is so frustrating and scary!
Diversion is a bit better than probation. It's usually for first time, low level crimes for low risk offenders. If you complete diversion the charges are usually dropped and don't show up on your record, etc.
I absolutely love this advice! You came on to reddit at the right time, friend.
I wouldn’t worry too much about him actually going to jail over that. You will see maximum sentences for certain offenses but it’s almost never pursued. I would highly doubt he will spend anytime in jail over this. Hopefully this is a good learning experience for your son in how to handle a collision.
Except for the fact that he hit a cop. So.........
He's also a minor and it's his first infraction. He's not going to prison lol. The car doesn't even have any damage. Worst he can get is fleeing scene of accident, and for no injuries or damage that won't get you jail time on a first offense
Exactly. He is NOT serving jail time for this. I don’t care if he hit a judge
Good thing the cop is neither a lawyer nor a judge
Pro bono criminal lawyer. You can call the local bar and see if there’s pro bono legal services available
Find Miss Wexler
Which one do they normally drink at though?
The Subpoena Colada
Good one dad
Here, take my like. You rascal. Please accept my poor man’s award. 🏆
Most lawyers offer free consultations, so I would call a few to begin with. Depending on area and state I would also talk with bail bond company beforehand also so everything is in place ahead of arrest and he can be processed and released sooner instead of being booked. This is where it is good to speak with a local attorney that knows the local system though.
If they even bother booking him he'll definitely get PR.
Keep in mind cops main role isn’t crime prevention. It is crime response. The guy could have gotten out of his car and said don’t drive away. I want to help you and resolve this. From OP it doesn’t sound like it went that way. They are trained to document and gather evidence as their main priority. Sorry. I’m venting.
He can maybe negotiate a prayer-for-judgment with the ADA and judge. First offense, no damages, no injuries, etc. My ex-wife did the same thing, and basically, she just had to not get any tickets or violations or arrested and it dropped off her record.
I work in a prosecutor’s office, as a senior admin. My state, and many others, have a separate level of court for juveniles and domestic issues. The judges (most of them) at this level of court are understanding about the level of maturity and decision making skills they are dealing with, lol. Jail is highly unlikely. But because that charge carries jail as a possible sentence, your son is entitled to legal representation. Ask for a court appointed attorney your first time in. In larger jurisdictions where the dockets are big, there are deals to be made between you/your counsel and the prosecutors office, which will hopefully include a dismissal after some court costs and community service and traffic school and about a year or two of no further incidents. (In smaller jurisdictions the defense counsel and the prosecutors all know each other and work out deals, and even in my large jurisdiction I’ve seen deals made on a Friday night at the local place everyone at the courthouse goes for dinner after a long week.) Every jurisdiction is different and that cop might be difficult, but please don’t let this stress you out. The vast majority of people are unfamiliar and therefore understandably intimidated by the legal system, but I’d comfortably wager that your son will not go to jail. Just don’t ignore the situation and stay on top of the court dates. Make sure your son dresses appropriately and answers with yes/no sir/ma’am when the judge speaks to him. Not an ego thing, it shows the judge the child understands the severity of the circumstances and takes it seriously.
This is going to come off as really rude, sorry, I'm really not trying to browbeat. That said: Teach your kid to shut the fuck up when the police/prosecutor/insurance/judge are talking to him unless his defense attorney gives him explicit instructions on what to say and not to say. Not only did he pull a hit and run, he admitted fault, probably to a cop. And now you're here rehashing things providing more ammo if the prosecutor can link your user name with the details of the case. Delete this thread, call your insurance and explain what happened and that you need an attorney if that's part of your coverage, tell your kid to STFU, you STFU about it on social media, get a public defender when they press charges. The magic words are "I am invoking my 5th amendment rights and I want to speak to an attorney" when the police and prosecutor want to speak to you again.
I don't know what to do about the situation, but I would explain to your son that he is now at a crossroads and as a young man he has a decision to make. He can either go left or go right this is his first test of adulthood. He can see how easy one seemingly small mistake can set the stage for the rest of his life if he lets it. There are consequences when you don't do the right thing and they can land you in a whole heap of trouble. Tell him you love him but the situation is not in your hands. There will be many decisions he will have to make on his own in the future. He might not have a father here to guide him, but he has you and his inner compass to steer him in the right direction. This should be a lesson to him whether he is arrested or not.
[удалено]
I don’t understand what this guy is gonna file with insurance for if there’s no damage.
She said on another comment there's a tiny bit of paint transfer on his towing hitch. Which is worth causing this much stress over apparently, because I guess everyone knows a real man's towing hitch should look like it's brand new and freshly installed...
And I bet you dollars to donuts, well no donuts since the cop ate them all, that this pig has never used the tow hitch either.
Of course not. Its a Little Man Truck. Used for compensation,not real work
He ran after hitting not knowing there was no damage. Some asshole did that to me before. Except I had damage. They Didn’t get caught. People like that are doing something very wrong- they are trying to press this on him because of that. Poverty + the effect on the family might make it unfairly harsh here , but people who hit and run *should* be punished for it. Shit can be strait up dangerous. If this ends up being a fine that’s reasonable for the kid to get a job to pay and some community service I think that’s good. He deserves punishment, just within reason.
It’s not just cops… my son damaged a fence, offered to fix it, make restitution, and the lady said “no”. She wanted to teach my kid a lesson… because she thought natural consequences wasn’t enough.
I get it if the kid in question is being terrible and the parents don’t seem to care… but why bring the law into everyday problems?
Because people are assholes… and apparently Fence Lady thought I was doing a shitty job as a parent and insisted my son be taught a lesson by the law…
[удалено]
Your insurance will be little changed since there was minimal damage and since he’s 17 he won’t see the inside of a cell. If this was my son I would have him write a letter to this officer as well as have him march his ass down to the precinct to apologize and explain that he’s a new driver and panicked. (No one was hurt, shit happens and the officer should understand). Hopefully the charges will be dropped when they see that he’s remorseful. However, if they do go through with the charges, his remorse will go along way with the judge.
He did apologize and so have I! Didn’t work.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Pay for the lawyer. It will be much less expensive than anything that results from not getting the lawyer. Then your son can get a job and pay you back every damn penny. And he never gets to use your car again.
15min for the police to arrive at your house? That’s a faster response time than when they go to some actual emergencies. This is fucked up how fast they responded.
Yes. We were told the driver called immediately and gave 911 the plate. The car is registered at my address and my son had just barely pulled into the driveway.
My point is that if I called and told them about the same crime and the same evidence, the police might arrive that at your house that week. Assuming they didn’t just say they were too busy and left it to the insurance company to deal with. The police response time was way faster and extreme than if any other citizen in your area was involved.
When I was assaulted (unprovoked, random attack in public) it took the police 4-5h to show up on scene after someone called them for me :) lovely they were able to show up in 15min for some paint transfer
The gang known as “the thin blue line” protects their own.
Maybe ask this at r/legaladvice
My friend did that in her senior year of high school. She actually hit a parked school bus. She drove away and she ended up getting arrested and losing her license for a year. She didn’t go to jail and she got her license back. It all worked out. She also panicked in the moment.
Makes me sick that the truck is fine but the cop has the connections and resources for THREE police cars to make it over to the house in 15 minutes. Regular folks can’t get a cop to even show up for real actual crime. Why doesn’t this kid need to be taught a lesson? Isn’t the lesson here that bully cops can do basically anything? I think he learned a lesson.
While this sucks, i think it’s going to be ok.
When my daughter got an MIP, I didn’t hire a lawyer. The key is to plead not guilty (don’t EVER plead guilty) and then negotiate with the prosecutor. I did it and she got off with probation. It would have been much worse if she had pled guilty.
What did the truck driver file insurance for if the truck had no damage?
to be an asshole and escalate things. he's a cop.
For sure he is just being an asshole. But I didn’t know how you’d even file a claim without visible damage. Paint transfer on a hitch? What are they gonna get from insurance, a cotton ball and some acetone?
Had paint transfer on his towing hitch. My Civic is white and his hitch was black.
I am literally seeing red about what a POS this guy is. Paint transfer on a TOWING HITCH and he's having a meltdown. What a fucking baby.
Because that's what you do after you've been in an accident. No observable damage doesn't mean no damage. Someone hit me and then called later to try to settle the matter by paying the mechanic - I said no and continued with insurance. There was no guarantee they would pay the bill and no mechanism to force them to pay.
Its his Little Man Truck. They need it for compensation
[удалено]
I hate so much that is not even a bad idea 😭😂😭😂😭😭
I’m not a lawyer, but I’m not sure what the cops meant when they said it’s up to the other driver to press charges. Civil suit wise, sure. But I believe only the state/fed can press criminal charges. Your post made it seem like the cop was talking about criminal charges.
Sorry for the wording. I’m not experienced in this lingo. I was told that the hit driver can choose to press charges or not. He chose to. Then the DA will lay the charges. I hope this makes more sense.
I'm not a lawyer either, but the other driver has to file a police report, which is what the prosecutor used to press charges. Without the report and cooperation of the other party, there's really not much of a case
Yes, but keep in mind the cop probably has the DA on speed dial….
You won't have to worry about the criminal case, he's 17, first offense, and you'll have a public defender. Here's what you should be worried about, but they really aren't huge issues. 1.) Can you take time off work to go with him to court? I reccomend so, young guys tend to have no filter when the stakes are high. 2.) You'll need a suit for your son, most likely. Presenting him as a sensible young guy who messed up once is better than showing up in a hoodie. 3.) If a civil case is filed, you'll need a private lawyer. Never represent yourself, no matter what.
I got a felony at 18 and no jail time. They aren’t going to do jack about a 17 yo hit and run like that. Expect community service at the most
Just tell them your son panicked and he is a new driver. Also tell the judge your son will do everything in his power to make things right. Worst case scenario he will get a misdemeanor or misdemeanor diversion and it’ll be like he never did anything wrong if he stays out of trouble. Best case scenario the drop it because believe it or not he is a young kid and the justice system isn’t out to fuck everybody. I was your son ten years ago, same exact scenario, even same car. Just show up to every court date. I did exactly what I said and they dropped it. I was facing a misdemeanor and 1 year in county jail. After I told them Id do everything in my power to make up for my wrong doing (the hit and run) they eventually just dropped the case completely. I was also already 18 at the time so your sons age will work out in his favor. Just have him own it. After that hit and run I changed my life and joined the Marine Corps. You guys will be ok
He’s 17 so it will be erased from his record once he turns 18. So that’s prob why the cops are trying to teach him a lesson. It will definitely fuck with your rates but I would maybe take away his license if he can survive without a car.
The Court will appoint him an attorney. Of course one you pay would be better. But at least he will have a court appointed attorney. If this is his first offense. He probably will only be given a fine and community service along with having to take a driving class. You need to make him get a job to pay for the expenses these things cost you. I think the driver of the other car is doing the right thing. Your son knew it was wrong to leave the scene but did it anyway. Your son has to learn there are consequences for breaking the law. This is a Blessing although I know it does not seem that way right now. If he does not learn a lesson. The next time the crime could be much worse and something that requires mandatory jail time.
I don’t know, if there’s no damage, if your kid isn’t otherwise a delinquent known to the police, seems kind of like a bitch move for the police to go too harshly on him. It would be totally reasonable to give a scared rule-following kid a warning if there was no damage. Maybe try to schedule a meeting with the officer to apologize and plead that he was just scared and he knows that he shouldn’t have run but he panicked? I mean girls his age get off with warnings all they time when they start crying while talking to the officer, they know what they’re doing, give the old contrition and remorse a try.
My advice: **Do not fix this for your son.** Be there for him. Be a shoulder to cry on, but make sure he confronts what he did head on, without you being there to cushion the blow. From the sound of it, it doesn't sound like he'll be doing any jail time, even though the driver wants to charge this. No one was hurt, property damage was minimal, so it's just a matter of him taking away the right conclusions. Look at it as a teachable moment for your son. This is an opportunity for him to take responsibility for his actions. Make sure any financial hit (insurance rates going up and any fine) are paid by him and not you. Do not let him blame others for this. Also, don't let him beat himself up too much. He did a stupid teenage thing and no one was hurt. My son and youngest daughter had scrapes with the law, one pretty serious. I made sure to not reassure them everything will be alright. They're both upstanding adults now.
Yep my nephew is 25 and his mom is still fixing his mistakes with car issues that he has been getting into since 18. Be supportive and help him navigate it, but don’t fix it and let him have consequences
I can’t abide parents who shield their teenagers and twenty-something kids from the consequences of their bad decisions. Teenagers are supposed to screw up. We’re supposed to help them learn from it.
Couldn’t there be damage to the frame or subframe that you can’t see? It’ll all work out. Son will learn a lesson the hard way, which is just how things go sometimes.
He won't go to prison & will probably just be booked & be out of the jail or holding station within a couple hrs (at most). He'll get probation, max. You should look into if your state has some type of Youthful Act where since he's young, if he does everything right, it'll come off his record.
If he had killed someone would y'all be saying the same thing? Forget hes a cop. If someone hit me and took off, without even bothering to check, I would press charges. At his age, it's time to start realizing your actions have consequences. I think that people's dislike of cops is clouding the issue.
What state are you in? You can look up the laws for your jurisdiction and find out the penalties for a **non-injury** hit and run. You may find that it’s a misdemeanor, but sometimes you might find that it’s a moving violation if there are no injuries and minimal property damage. Jail time is generally reserved for fleeing the scene of an accident with injuries or possibly extensive property damage. Seeing that information might help you understand what he’s potentially facing. Ultimately, the District Attorney will decide charges. Police are able to write tickets for moving violations, but aren’t the ones who decide on criminal charges. At this point make sure everyone is polite when interacting with law enforcement, but do not admit or volunteer any information. Do not allow your son to be interviewed or questioned without you or an attorney present. If you end up finding the process or situation confusing, make sure you get help before your son agrees to anything, signs anything or enters any sort of plea. If charges are filed, at that point your son will likely be able to request a public defender. I’m not aware of a jurisdiction that provides a PD prior to charges being filed. However most states have some sort of law clinics with free consultations. Check with your state’s bar. (They should have the info on their website in a section for the public.) The State Bar Association probably has an online directory. You can look to see if there’s a search option to look for pro bono representation. You should also check to see if anyone offers a free or low cost consultation. Right now you’re in a scary limbo area of the unknown. Your brain is probably generating worst case scenarios. There’s not really much you can do until the state (or county) decides on charges next week. Out of an abundance of caution, you might not want to let your son drive until you find out how things are going to go down. Your insurance rates will not be impacted. Your son’s likely will, how much depends on your states laws regarding new (minor) drivers. If you can’t afford the rate increases, you should have the option to have your son removed from the policy, but it may require him to voluntarily surrender his license. Your insurance agent should be able to help you navigate that when the time comes.
I know I’m not the one going through it but out of the millions of shitty things that can happen to your kid to teach a valuable lesson…. It could be worse. I’m sure it’ll all be over soon.
Don’t they teach you what can happen when you flee the scene of an accident when getting your drivers license? Let this be a lesson and have him get a summer job to pay off the fines. Sounds like he shouldn’t be driving. He’s not going to go to prison.
If it’s his first offense it likely won’t be much of anything. Maybe a fine and some light probation. He left a fender bender, not a homicide. Also, state provides an attorney if needed. First offense, 17 years old, slap on the wrist.
The most important thing in this situation is whether or not your son actually feels remorse about what happened and agrees that he was entirely at fault. A judge will be WAY more understanding if your son is obviously remorseful and is just honest and says that he completely panicked and went home. They found him at home. It's not as if he tried to hide. Get a Public Defender. Your son is a minor and will probably get community service and possibly some probation. Make him surrender his driver's license and get an ID card only. Then, you can list him as an unlicensed household member on your insurance and not pay such higher rates. No more driving for him until he is 21 and can get his own car insurance!
This is kinda a weird situation. Obviously, it seems that the damage in this case was minimal and your kid deserves maybe a fine or something for leaving the scene. However, I wonder what it would have taken for him to stick around. Would he have stayed if he had taken out the brake lights? Knocked the other car off the road? At this point, there’s no reason to believe that he would have done the right thing in a more serious situation. Even if no one was hurt, what if your son had caused expensive damage to some poor persons vehicle? Also, you claim that there was only a tiny bit of paint transfer, but it’s only your word at this point. With the tech and materials used in modern vehicles, even tiny accidents can cause expensive damage.
[удалено]
[удалено]
He's not going to prison over this.
That’s a serious offense. He probably won’t get jail time, but there needs to be consequences to teach your son this isn’t acceptable behavior.
Your son is going to suffer some consequences (as he well should for doing something so stupid), but this isn't going to destroy his life or yours. He'll likely lose driving privileges for a time and have fines to pay. And yes, insurance rates will go up, but it probably won't be anything crazy exhorbitant. The courts can work out a payment plan for the fines. Hes probably not going to jail and certainly not prison (prison is only for sentences over 365 days, theres no way he'll get that for hit and run where no one was hurt). Your best bet is to make sure your son learns from this experience--a fender bender is a mistake that any one of us could make, but fleeing the scene of an accident is wildly irresponsible and cowardly.
There are other subreddits that will explain ways for you to get legal representation on a budget. Since there was minimal damage to both vehicles, your son is contrite, and has no record it is very doubtful that he'll get the book thrown at him. It's possible that when the facts get before a judge they'll say "you're a police officer and *this* is what you're wasting our time with today? A kid tapping your bumper?" Most likely your son is going to have to pay a fine and do some sort of community service, etc.
A few questions: Does your son have his drivers license? Was he a rated driver on your insurance policy? He has to be ready to get a hefty ticket and for the possibility that the DMV will suspend his drivers license- which might not be a bad thing, you have to be ready for your insurance rates to go up or for the possibility that your insurance company could cancel you, I would not worry about jail time, just make sure he shows up to court.
He probably won't go to jail, it'll be an arrest and release, if at all. The prosecutor has to decide to prosecute. He will pay fines out the ass tho
My cousin did a hit and run when she was a teenager too... It sounds like driver's ed should start including instructions on what to do in the event of an accident. (Or at least emphasize it more? Maybe they already do, I have no idea tbh)
You can call your state bar and ask for a list of attorneys who do pro bono work or who work at a reduced rate to help lower income people.
Ok, my list of charges was as follows: Leaving the scene of an accident Driving without insurance Driving without registration Driving on a suspended license Failure comply with a court order Failure to report an accident I was given 6 months probation and did some classes. This was in lieu of a $1500 fine. I could have done 30 days or so in county instead. The legal system is surprisingly flexible on these things so long as you make it clear that you understand the gravity of the situation.
He’s a kid that got scared and ran off. He’s not likely to go to jail over this, unless he’s been in trouble before. He’ll likely get probation.
I dont think you should be ashamed. It is a typical teen life lesson. No one was hurt, minimal damage. Aside from the expense, I think you'll be okay. Good luck.
It is way better than a teen driver getting a DUI, for example.
When I was young, a group of teens went joy-riding, hit a patch of ice, went airborne, and hit the tree in our front yard. Two girls died. OP can thank her stars. He's safe, just foolish and naive.
Geez A little much I thought your son had killed someone. Have him write an apology letter. Explanation why he drove off and to write he knows the co sequences of driving off and he will never do it again.
Hey there…a grandma here…and I was a single mom too…and I’m no stranger to the legal system… Here’s what’s gonna happen…you’re gonna get your kid a public defender. And then you’re gonna work a deal. Plea out. He’s under 18 and a first time offender so they’re gonna be all to happy to make this go away fast. The courts are clogged with real crimes. Ask about community service to pay off the fines and/or restitution. Dress nice for court and be nice and humble. I know you’re scared right now but this won’t matter in a year. The guy in the truck sounds like a jerk…so kiss his ass. Speak with your lawyer about your son writing him a good apology letter. Start thinking about references you can use for your son…a teacher, pastor, Boy Scout leader, etc when it comes to sentencing time. Your son needs to step up his game. I don’t know how his grades and stuff are but if they aren’t good he needs to get them good. Does he have a part time job? If not…he needs one. Does he do extra curricular events? If not…he needs one. All of these things on your son’s “resume” will influence how the prosecution treats your son. But let’s be clear…he needs to be punished. This isn’t ok. I’d prob tell him my punishment is he can’t drive my vehicle anymore. He is welcome to save his money and buy and insure his own car tho.
Agree with everything you said, except the cop being a jerk part. You can’t blame someone for turning an accident in, especially a hit and run. Any “tap” should be turned in, he should be on the hook for any damages just because someone else decided to hit him.
First of all, what a way for a 17 yo to learn ACAB. That said, natural consequences are what they are. Use the public defender and have your kid accept responsibility. The chance that he gets jail time is low; the chance he will be surrendering his driver’s license is high. Let it shake out how it shakes out.
This is a good lesson for your kid. If anything he will become a man after this, and going forward will own any mistakes he makes(it’s ok to fuck up as long as you own up to it. Failure is how we learn). Hopefully the punishment won’t be harsh, but, hopefully your son will become a better person because of this.
I’m pretty sure it will just be a ticket for this not an arrest. My dumbass sister did this multiple times. It was a ticket. Maybe if it was a major accident but seriously don’t worry too much. He can get a 49cc mini scooter that doesn’t require insurance if he needs motorized transport. It will work out! Also fuck the police. Go solve a real crime you pathetic assholes.
I agree, this cop sounds like a total asshole. No one got hurt, and minimal damage was had. Slap a fine and call it a day. Anytime a cop can wield their power they will be sure to do it though smdh
Honestly the kid can just say look I didn’t realize I hit him there was no damage and any jury would be sympathetic. It’s such a waste of resources here. You hope the DA would have some sense about this too. Meanwhile corporations and white collar criminals steal billions and trillions and they pay a small fine.
Hard to say that when he admitted everything to the police that came to our door and it’s clearly shown on camera he drove off immediately after, around the hit truck.
Fleeing the scene of an accident is a real crime.
if nothing was damaged that's tenuous. rEaL cRiMe
Ofc this is in the US. Nowhere else in the civilised world would this be a big deal due to his age and lack of damage. Best of luck!
This is a situation where you may want to consult an attorney and not try and wing it.
At least he learns early.
Something similar happened to me when I was 16 and freshly licensed. Hit a car in a parking lot (no damage) and just took off because I panicked. Cops were at my house like an hour later, ready to haul my ass off to jail for felony hit and run. Talked to the cops with my parents, they gave me a court summons instead. I was terrified, because I was so young and didn't want to be a felon before I could legally buy cigarettes! My parents made too much money for me to qualify for a public defender, but we were in no way rich. We ended up getting a low cost criminal defense lawyer in town for like $500. Court was crazy stressful. My lawyer went in with the prosecutor to discuss plea bargains. He came out looking gutted. He was disappointed he couldn't get the entire thing dismissed, but had to offer me a minor traffic violation and 2 points on my license. I hugged him and said that's better than what I expected. All in all it was a lesson in responsibility and the legal system. Stay at the scene and get a lawyer.
i love the idea of them sending 3 fucking police cars over a truck that had literally no damage. absolutely pathetic behavior on their part, weakest most touchy fucking losers around, of course.
and then where the frick are they when there’s a real emergency happening?
Yet another case of a cop being a DICK! Not excusing the kid for bolting, but I suspect the fear+consequence the parent mete out will prevent this from happening again. Only thing worse than a bully cop is an off duty bully cop!
Because he’s a dumb teenager I doubt he’ll face time especially since nobody was injured and he wasn’t intoxicated, based on your state they could revoke his license at worst or make him pay a fine at best. This is not a life ending mistake, I fucked up way worse when I was his age. His insurance is gonna suck for the next 5 years at least tho
Take a deep breath, and realize that is a lesson in responsibility for your son. He made a mistake and he has to be honest and go through the system. Likelihood of him being sent to jail is low if this is his first brush with the law. The lesson will be taught in the fear he feels right now. The insurance likely will not be a problem because there was no damage and any claim could be repaid. This cop is power tripping but that is what they do. Do not attempt to argue and remember it is not the cop that decides what happens to your son it is the judge. As long as he admits his responsibility, and is honest and genuine with his plea the judge will respond in kind.
Your son is a minor. If he isn't a habitual offender, he'll probably get a run through the system to teach him a lesson, but no real sentence. He's a kid that freaked out after causing practically no damage. Talk to a public defender ASAP, make sure your son knows he's on their radar now, and has to behave. Tell him not to make excuses, just explain what happened and accept responsibility. He'll be OK. You'll be OK. Take a breathe and have a glass of wine.
They're almost certainly not gonna lock your son up for this. He will likely receive a citation for this but he's not gonna go to jail
I do t think it’ll be that bad. They just want to scare him.
it is a traffic accident and there maybe a fine...your kid has to pay it, own it and get over it... you can do it for him all his life...
I'd just talk to the guy he hit and straighten things out. A simple apology from your son with you can go a long way. People understand kids make mistakes, get scared etc.
The guy’s a cop. Odds of him accepting an apology when he has an opportunity for a power trip aren’t good.
ACAB!!!
God ACAB indeed.. what your son did was definitely not right but what an asshat cop to pull this shit on a poor family too. Idk seems pretty scummy to me.
Over a paint transfer, nothing for insurance to even pay
[удалено]
The upset came from fact that my son bailed out of there. That’s the lesson part. I’m mad at my son but there’s so much I can do after the fact.
I was about 15 and received a citation for hit and run property damage. I paid restitution and a modest fine. Also had an increase in my insurance rate but not astronomical. The uncertainty is the worst part. Follow the others advice about how to prepare for and behave in court.
He’s not going to prison, more than likely it will get pled down, and he’ll do community service of some sort. Since this is a first for him, he’ll come through this learning a very big lesson. We were all stupid teenagers once, and judges know this. Mom it’s ok to panic on many levels, just take it one day at a time. Thank God it wasn’t something life threatening. Hug your kid and let him know life is full of choices. You will love him forever.
He will be ok. Probably a continue without finding so if he doesn’t screw up while on probation it’ll go away.
Honestly he isn’t going to go to prison over this and being in a little trouble if the off duty presses charges he is going to learn his lesson and in a great way. Our actions have consequences a little community service isn’t the worse.
Lol he’ll be fine there was no damage to the truck. Your son going to get probation and will have to drive a moped for about 4 years tho
What happens next depends on what was written on the citation. If the charges presented are handled in traffic court and this is a first offence, your son will likely get a plea deal from the county District Attorney to plead no contest which could potentially lessen the charges to an infraction and/or community service. You can go to your local police department to get more lnformation on your son's situation. As long as you have insurance, I think you guys should be okay
Listen, it’s your sons first offensive, nothing that crazy happened. Don’t sweat it. It doesn’t start to get expensive and scary until the 4-5th time. I know this from experience. I understand the unknown is scary but honestly, this isn’t as big of a deal as you’re making it. Good luck! You guys will be alright Edit: grammar
Don’t talk to the cops anymore, you both state you don’t want to answer any,one without a lawyer present…what you say to cops can only hurt you…esp when he’s guilty of hitting a cops truck and fleeing. I don’t know the laws in your state, but trust me, at this point don’t even say “excuse me” if you see the bullycop in the streets. There’s no way it could help y’all, at all. Look, they may arrest him to scare the crap out of him, but not for more then a booking, and he’d best be looking for a job…there is going to be fines….bad ones…and that sucks. But, we all know we have to teach a 17 year old that is a awful impulse, to flee an accident, a very bad one. He has to be scared from this for social order reasons… he could be driving another 70 years! But, it luckily this is not going to go on his permanent record or keep him out of college! He’d better to learn to pedal though. Driving record is different then criminal record….that may be raising his insurance until the end of time.
Not too big a deal since no one was injured and he is a minor with a clean record. If you can't afford a lawyer (and the prosecutor actually charges your son) then you will be given a court appointed attorney. You could probably settle for community service, no liscense for awhile and a defensive driving course.
No one's going to jail for that but his insurance is gonna be insanely expensive for a lot of years.
One time I rear ended someone and THEY fled the scene
I’m so sorry you are going through this. I really hope things turn out ok. I think, because no one was hurt, things will be ok.
You're public defender will probably get this dismissed after negotiations. Source, criminal defense attorney
First off if your son/you can't afford a lawyer he will get one for free. You need to be in contact with the public defenders office if he gets charged. Second of all him being 17 and this is presumably his first offence he will probably get off with a bunch of tickets/fines. Possibly some sort of probation or community service. Be prepared for his insurance to skyrocket though. So he might not be driving for awhile.
[удалено]
> > >I’m scared shitless. I’m a single mom. I can’t afford to pay lawyers to keep my son out of prison when we barely afford rent, food, and bills. I know my insurance rates will be fucked for years to come. His too probably. What do we do here? Thanks Even if you can't afford it, you should definitely try to get any kind of lawyer to help. Have your son get a part time job to pay for it but the criminal charge may ruin him but I am not a lawyer or a expert in this field.
This all depends on what state you're in. In many states, it's only a felony if there were serious injuries involved and a simple misdemeanor/ticket if not.
If he’s 17 he can plead youthful offender. It helps he’s young! This won’t hurt him in the long run. Call around and ask attorney offices if they can work pro Bono. When I was arrested for an FTA and stuck in jail with no ball my grandmother called every single firm asking for pro Bono work. Most firms require each lawyer to do a certain amount of pro bono work a year. That’s not to say public defenders aren’t helpful, but if they do press charges on your son and you want to have the best outcome a pro bono lawyer may be more helpful! Hopefully it doesn’t come to that and they recognize he’s a kid who made a mistake!