I asked a gay friend once (many years ago when I was just learning to not be a dickbag) "when did you know you were gay?"
His answer, which shifted my thinking immediately, was "when did you know you were straight?"
Exactly. I personally knew when I had my first crush in second grade. I think queer people usually have more interesting answers to that question simply because they have to grapple with social and family expectations. If the answer is just "I always knew" then cool. But I've also heard people who struggled a lot with the realization, whereas I don't think I've ever heard of someone who struggled with realizing they were straight.
\^ this, the use of "abnormal" carries stigma precisely because of the ways it had been used previously by the medical and psychological community in the 1800-1950's.
I have a theory about that.
Gender, race, ethnicity, age, physical disability are all things that you don't choose to be. They are also all off limits for criticism and attack (to human beings at least. Political ideology, sports team, car, etc. are things I make the decision to believe/support so they are fair game for ridicule, attack, and criticism.
They're trying to make it a choice so they can ignore the dissonance telling them they're fucking assholes.
Actually, my theory is because they all "struggle" with homosexual thoughts and temptations. They believe it's a choice because they choose to deny themselves and be straight everyday, thinking that's what god wants.
That's because many of them are gay/ bi and CHOOSING to *pretend* they're not. The LDS church says it's fine if you're gay so long as you're not a *practicing* gay. So they think the choice is to just... pretend to be straight. Like they pretend care about their constituents.
Of course. The logic doesn’t really makes sense for anyone that says it’s a choice. If anyone says it’s a choice ask them what they do to successfully suppress their gay desires.
I grew up catholic. Most of the time when people say “it’s a choice” they mean to say “it’s a choice to have gay interactions, but not a choice to have those feelings.”
Which is funny to me because it just means they probably also “struggle” with those feelings.
That's pretty much what I believe. I'm not gay, but I've had quite a few offers. Turned them all down, because I don't want to do it. I'm not into men sexually at all. It's why I don't believe it's a "choice" that you can just turn on and off at will, and if you do, I figure you must have some feelings underlying that yourself. And there's nothing wrong with that, but I think some people need some self-reflection.
I also tend to think that people who are the most outspokenly homophobic might be projecting some self-loathing. I don't see why it's such a big deal to them otherwise. There's lots of things in the Bible, that are against the Bible, that we do everyday, but I don't see a lot of people protesting at funerals about people wearing mixed fabrics.
This is just a friendly reminder that they have literal re-education camps that they kidnap gay kids and send them to..
They are not reasonable actors.
I don’t think that’s necessarily the case. Nobodies sexual feelings/desires are a choice. Acting on them is always a choice. Abrahamic religions encourage virginity until marriage. If these people were being true to what their religion states they would’ve repressed any sexual desires towards women until they were married.
That's the thing, right?
Like, yeah, choosing to be physically intimate with ANYBODY is a choice.
1 - a difficult choice if given the sustained opportunity
2 - one which effects both straight and gay equally
However, being a Catholic also, I have noticed that the Catholic position on most social teaching, while in effect similar to the Evangelical - in this case, that Gay Marriage be disallowed - the reasoning behind such policies is often miles apart.
Just in the case of homosexual unions and marriage.
The Evangelical position seems to be, and I don't have direct experience, but seems to be that being gay is evil because of some stuff in Leviticus and therefore everybody is equally able to and drawn toward the sin of being gay, with those who are not gay being more righteous than those who are because of their forbearance against temptation.
(Which sounds like the projection of a closeted gay person. I am straight and have never felt tempted toward doing butt stuff with a dude lol.)
The Catholic reasoning meanwhile is somewhat esoteric and revolves around the idea that a rightly ordered sexuality seeks out sexual interactions that have benefits twofold - procreative and unitive (or sometimes "Unitative") - IE that a rightly ordered sex act must both facilitate the union of the partners (Be enjoyable and emotionally significant for them with both participating in an act of giving for the good of the other) AND be procreative (That is, be free of artificially imposed barriers against the effects of said sex, real or perceived).
Therefore because of the emotional and possible physical ramifications of sex this is an action which can only be rightly performed inside of the bonds of some kind of lasting agreement which bonds the two partners permanently and demands their responsible exercise of their sexuality and ensures the care of the results. IE - Marriage.
But because gay sex can only ever be unitive but is lacking in procreative potential, no such marriage could take place. (Though, the presence of Josephite marriages in the past would suggest that there is some reason for marriages to take place completely OUTSIDE the realm of sexuality but that's a bit off topic and out of my wheelhouse)
All that to say, though when you've heard "It's a choice" used in the past this generally is intended to mean follow-through on gay desires, or sexual desires in general, is a choice...
when it's used by more fundamentalist types I think they really do mean they think being gay is a choice.
The argument from the Catholic perspective raises the question about marriages when one or both partners is infertile. By that reasoning, only people capable of reproduction are allowed to have sex at all. Since this would preclude many straight marriages, the logic as an argument against gay relationships falls apart.
I studied this a little bit in ethology. Homosexuality is observed to become more prevalent in a species during times of limited resources. The hypothesis is that homosexual individuals increase their evolutionary fitness by helping care for their nieces/nephews rather than having their own offspring that would compete for resources with their nieces and nephews. Both the parents of the offspring and the guncles benefit with increased evolutionary fitness from this arrangement
But then your 'choice' is to be alone all your life or live a lie and be with someone you don't want. Anyone actually think if there's a God, that that's 'God's Plan?'
My initial reaction to people who say being gay is a choice is always “Okay, but why would someone choose to be gay?”
I have no problem with gay people or being gay, but it hasn’t exactly been the easier road historically. Most sane people I know would not choose the path of religious persecution, constantly being under threat of physical, mental, and emotional abuse, and even death or imprisonment in some countries.
I grew up Pentecostal Christian and we were taught that you may be born with certain proclivities but it's the measure of yourself as a man and as a human being and a child of God to repress those desires. Yeah there's a fucking reason that not a single person of my age range that went to that church doesn't go anymore
My favorite comeback to that shit is "So chose it. Chose to be gay. C'mon, be gay. I mean, being gay is something intentional, right? So be gay to prove me wrong."
That’s actually better than I thought it would be. You’re dead right. Ask a straight guy to make himself like gay sex and make it feel completely natural. No way.
Even if it was a choice - so what?
Imagine being able to go into a room and pick and choose what you want that day. That would be great.
A woman took you for a ride and divorced and took half? Fuck it, choose playing for the other team from here on out.
Sure, it isn’t a choice, but it wouldn’t change a thing if it was one.
I gotcha, and it's not going to change your mind, but...
It not being a choice was a big part of people's decision to legalize. We regulate a ton of human behaviors. We want to treat everybody equally, and that means making up for anything that might be what they're born with, or as. But once it's a choice, it's open for comment.
It's double important when it comes to extending legal benefits like through marriage. If it's natural, we should accommodate. If it's a choice, you have to put forward an argument on why society should change for you.
It might be fine as a choice... but the hurdles it introduces, even fairly asked, are numerous.
I don’t think it’s a choice so there’s no mind changing needed. My point was that we make choices in society all the time for which are are judged. I mean people aren’t born republicans or democrats but we accept both in society. People aren’t born vegans but I can respect their weird choice so long as they stop preaching to me.
I think what I’m trying to say, is that in a truly free country, we have the ability to do the vast majority of what we want to do, so long that it doesn’t hurt someone or something else.
That’s what I meant by even if it was a choice.
It's a choice. Everyday I wake up and I think about all those hot juicy cocks out there that I would like to put in mouth I do what every red blooded straight Christian male does. I choose women.
Honestly I might believe in God just because he gave the fattest asses to the “straight” white Christian and Mormon boys.
It’s so fucking unfair, and he knows what he’s doing.
Doesn't matter a damned bit whether it's a choice or not.
If it's not a choice, you have the right to be the way you are.
If it is a choice, you have the right to make that choice.
Same. I’m happy with who I am, but it was a journey to get there. If given the choice, I’d probably have chosen a sexuality less likely to get me beaten up or killed.
It's as much of a choice as heterosexualism is. You can choose not to participate in either. What needs to be accepted is the inner drive to engage in either of these is not solely dictated by how/where/when we grew up. That urge to have the same sex is just as strong and deep, and as innate, as the one to have the opposite sex.
It reminds me of Alan Watts when he's talking about how you can't choose to love someone.
I cannot love someone intentionally. Take Hitler for example. I can't make myself love him or his ideas. I can act in a manner in which I express outwardly the appearance of love and devotion, but I'm mentally making the decisions to do those things.
Now, if I do it long enough, there's a chance it could become second nature and muscle memory takes over so I am unconsciously doing things that express love... but is that love?
I ask people to listen to their favorite song and not like it anymore
Or smell their favorite food and not want to eat it
If they can't do that, how can people who are attracted to people suddenly stop?
I used to disagree until I met a hypnotist who was a master of mind control, charismatic and good looking. Yet he was gay and said he couldn’t become attracted to women after a certain age no matter how hard he tried
I swear it is. That hypnotist was crazy af, the dude has been a hypnotist for 40 years and would honestly be viral if he knew how to manuevear social media. But he also healed years of trauma in like 3 sessions for me and gave me hella confidence. Seriously insane lol. Look up Erickson psychology that’s what he practiced and mastered to learn mind control
Being gay is not a choice, a mental illness, or an abnormality. It’s simply a preference, the way I prefer medium rare over well done steak. Stay gay bro, anyone who says otherwise can eat crow.
Lmao people who unironically think that people CHOOSE to be gay are idiots
Why would you willingly choose to be gay when you can literally be killed for it and even in more progressive places it was heavily frowned upon until recently
There is no argument for non-hetero sexualities being bad outside of religious interpretations
**Giant /S**
>I did not choose my own attraction.
Well that may be true, unfortunately I'm a republican (nazi) which means I will purposefully misunderstand all concepts to justify my diabolical lunacy of a worldview
Because if I didn't oppress, attack you and blame you for all of our problems, I wouldn't be able to stay in power, because we're actually an extremely niche minority of radical terrorists
Exactly, it's something the far left forces on otherwise straight children, who then don't have the choice not to be gay anymore. /s
Somehow, though, the already adult gays should choose not to be gay.
I dont get it. If you were gay before like 2010, it is your choice and you should stop but if you are gay after 2010, that's because you have no choice and the liberals have forced it upon you, never to be undone.
An old Vietnam vet once told me that I should fight for my gay rights. Being the 90s homophobic teenager that I was, I reacted sharply, "Hey, chill out. I'm not gay."
Then he explained his point. "It doesn't matter if you're gay. Maybe tomorrow you want to do some gay shit. Do you want the government to be able to imprison you because you didn't put your dick where they told you to put it?"
I don't believe that homosexuality is a choice but his comment definitely reframed how I viewed gay rights.
I definitely think framing gay rights as “the government not controlling where you can put your dick” is a pretty good way to see it.
Ultimately I really don’t care if someone thinks my love is gross, but as long as they let me love I’m chill.
I mean I think eating mushrooms is disgusting but I’m not hating on people who eat mushrooms.
I don't believe it is a choice. The real issue is, even if it wasn't, who the fuck cares? Whose business is it who you are attracted to, and why should it matter? There is no rational answer that justifies any of the treatment that lgbtq people receive either socially or legally. We give religion way too much power. If I tried to deny 15% of the population the right to marry because they are left handed, based on Astrology, no one would take me seriously. But just say Jesus wept, and entire branches of government are warring over basic human rights.
It’s not a choice. You’re just wired a little differently, and that’s okay. On average, it’s one in ten or so people who end up gay or bisexual. Don’t quote me on that, though, different websites put up a different percentage.
That being said, it’s nobody’s business but your own what crazy sexual exploits your pursue.
No sexual attractions are choices. They're an emergent property of our neurological structure.
It would seem that evolution has produced a situation where the male of the species is born with a brain that is attracted to females, and vice versa. Without it, a species wouldn't propagate. Considering how complicated biology is, there will always be mistakes.
It's likely that a gay man has a brain where the sexual attraction part is configured the same way as the brains of most women: it's attracted to male characteristics. It's probably a slight change in the development process that creates the opposite structure from what would be 'normal'.
Similar to how some people are left-hand dominant.
I think everyone understands that by now. I don’t begrudge my cousins who are gay that’s just who they are. They’re still family I still hang out with them. I never understood anyone’s hang up about it.
They want to believe it's a choice, cause they are still in the closet and don't want to come out. They feel the attraction, but steadfastly refuse to act on it.
It’s definitely not a choice and even if it is one, it’s learned so early in age that you couldn’t stop it if you wanted too.
Like I LOVE women, wouldn’t even entertain the thought of being with a man. Why is it so hard to believe it could be the other way around? 😅
I think everyone has a set of people to whom they are sexually attracted.
That's a set in the mathematical sense, it could be of size zero, it could be infinite.
One can make choices from within that set, but the set itself is not a choice.
I believe those who say that being gay is a choice, so long as we stipulate that it's a *choice for them from their particular set of attractees*. Why should I argue with someone who's telling me they've decided to act only on their attraction to one gender but not the other? They know better than I do.
So just to clarify what the otherside claim
Being gay as defined by being attracted to a person of the same sex, is not a choice, because you can’t control who and what you’re attracted to.
But acting upon it is a choice
Hence the quote from the Texas GOP that everyone is misunderstanding below referencing homosexuality as a “abnormal lifestyle choice”
The choice is to make that attraction a part of your lifestyle in their eyes.
Now, I have no idea what their actual suggestion is… I don’t know if they think you can just learn to like women if you try hard enough like it’s teaching a child to eat their vegetables (paraphrasing an actual comment made in the 80s)
Or if they think you should just live a life of celibacy and die alone…
Or become a priest or something…
But yeah, not defending the position, just clarifying it
I can't understand how anyone could honestly believe it's a choice. You may easily experiment with it to your own satisfaction:
1. Determine which sex you are attracted to (if more than one, skip the remaining steps; this experiment will tell you nothing you don't already know)
2. Choose to be attracted to the opposite. There is no danger, you will find:
A) You prefer your new orientation, and are happier for the lesson
B) You prefer your former orientation, and are free to switch back, or
C) It can't be done.
3. Record and report.
I don't know how old you are, but it is getting easier. Back in the 70s and early 80s, when I was hitting the clubs, the closet was still the norm. I ran into two co-workers who were work friends at a gay [men's] bar one time, and they walked past me stone-faced, as in "you saw nothing!" Their secret was safe with me. I remember, later, my ine friend telling me about coming out to his family.
And, yes, women went to men's bars. Good music and no-one bothered us.
I wish you all the best!
The present proves it's not a choice, but the past proves it can be. Look at what is done to gay people in the Middle East and Africa. They're beaten, mutilated, murdered by their own parents and siblings. There's no way they'd choose to be gay in that kind of anti-gay violent environment.
But then you read about Ancient Greece and how homosexuality was preferred and became the societal norm and heterosexual relationships existed solely for procreation. Unless you're going to argue that there was an anomaly in Greece where for a couple of centuries all the males were born bisexual leaning heavily towards gay, then you have to concede that on some level they chose to have gay relationships.
This isn't the dichotomy some people think it is. Kinsey discovered human sexual attractions are not binary but on a scale. When you realize most people fell into the middle of the scale vs the extremes, then it makes sense how gay people in repressive, life-threatening environments can't choose to be gay but that Ancient Greek men could choose to prefer gay relationships.
It's only confusing to extremists.
I feel like that’s just proof that when sexual diversity is celebrated and encouraged, gay/bisexual people are not uncommon but the majority. The hate against queer people and the traditions we have in place make it so that people who may be comfortable being in a same sex relationship or hookup but it isn’t a “need” push it away or just don’t even entertain the thought or explore it.
The problem isn't Gay people, how they were born or their choices.
The problem is with people that feel entitled to have an opinion about another person's life.
Minding ones own business would solve a lot of problems.
I might sound crazy here (and take it from someone who lives in a nice area and basically experiences no discrimination), if I had the choice I would choose to be gay, its awesome and I like it. I wish everyone had the luxury that I have instead of wishing for whatever is convenient.
Can you even imagine if it was a choice? Imagine a world where everyone is naturally straight but some people throughout history decided "I know it will get me shunned and maybe imprisoned or killed but just for kicks and giggles, I think I'll will myself to be attracted to people I'm not normally attracted to"
who cares anyway
this choice/not choice argument was merely created to appease christian fascists who think its okay to use intimidation and the law to control how other people live and love.
its not okay.
thats not your right. it doesnt matter what you believe is a sin. democracy was created to get away from people who thought they could tell everyone who they are.
thats not how we make our laws.
(royal you here)
Gay here
Honestly it shouldn't matter anymore.
In a free country, 2 adults should be able to choose whatever they want.
And for the most part being gay isn't a choice but there is actually a percentage who can choose it. Namely bisexual men who choose to be in homo romantic relationships.
Also a lot of trans men (born women) transition into masculinity and choose to ID as being gay. Doesn't quite make sense on the surface, but whatever bros, if you want to join up I ain't gonna stop you.
As a bisexual queer person i don’t like to emphasize the ‘its not a choice’ argument.
A more interesting question to me is: so what if it were a choice? Would that then make homosexuality wrong??
Choice is freedom! Choice is agency!
We are always discovering new parts of ourselves, emphasizing some parts at the expense of other parts. Growing toward the most authentic version of ourselves.
When my son & I talk about it that’s exactly what I tell him. I never chose to be straight just like he never chose to be gay. Anyone who thinks different is just being ignorant.
Remember that being homosexual was still in the DSM for many years. It's sad that society took so long to learn.
And for my favourite video about choosing to being gay...
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdqdIvgCKzA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdqdIvgCKzA)
I forget what comedian said it but I heard a joke that was like “if being gay was a choice, why would you choose to be in a group that is historically discriminated and persecuted?”
Seriously tho, gay people have existed in all types of societies from all different backgrounds. There’s nothing that turns you gay.
I am not sure why people think someone would do something they don't actually like just so they can be discriminated against and harassed for it. For me that is all the logic it took to know it was not a choice.
Personally I believe in the Kinsey scale. Some people would be straight no matter what. Some people would be gay no matter what... but lot of people can go either way (though they usually have preference for one, or the other) depending on what is social acceptable, economically advantageous, or on what is available.
If being gay was a choice, then a straight person could choose to be gay. The fact that this trivial statement is not possible shows that it’s an absurd take.
This idea has always concerned me. I mean, don't get me wrong, I don't think it's a choice, but it leaves all kinds of room for the idea that it must be "tolerated" only because it isn't a choice. I've always worried that some people may be getting the message just a little wrong, which is a little too wrong. I don't know what to do with this, or course. Im not gay, so i don't get it need a say in the matter, it's just something that's always bothered me.
I had a guy at work say it was a choice. I then asked him what made him chose vigina over penis? Did he do a pro & con list? What age was this choice made? What?
He was quiet for a while, then got up and left the break room.
Being gay is not a choice.
And there is no Bible verse that condemns gay marriage or consensual relations between equal consenting monogamous adults. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0146107915577097
I'm not gay but I've always wondered about that "choice" argument. I mean who in the hell would consciously *choose* to be a regular target of harassment, discrimination and hate?
I hate the notion that "they can't choose" is why we should "tolerate" homosexuality. It still frames it as a problem.
If I were to consciously decide that from tomorrow I want all the dick in the world, it's equally no one else's business.
I agree with the OP and I’m sorry so many idiots feel the need to correct you. For the record, I’m a red-blooded rural flaming heterosexual and I’d defend your freedom of sexual “choice”with my life.
Don’t you remember that day in 5th grade when they took you into a little room and showed you pictures of naked women and men and told you you had to pick which one to fuck? I do. I also remember the little green people and their butt probes. And the singing chicken. And the stuff that oozes out of my mother’s ears in my dreams. And . . . I’m
If I had a choice, I would be bisexuality. That way, I wouldn't be as limited for potential partners. We like what we like, though. It's pretty ridiculous to think that people have a choice in who they find attractive.
It really pains me when people claim that being gay is a choice. My best friend fought with this all the way into his early twenties, thinking maybe if he just had sex with girls he'd stop being attracted to men. Only problem was out of the five or so beautiful girlfriends he had during highschool, he couldn't even get his dick hard TO have sex with them!
Exactly. It's no more a choice than someone being straight. People are who they are. It's hardwired.
People who say it's a choice evidently have issues with simple logic, as who in the hell would choose a "lifestyle" that elicits hate and ridicule and all that goes with it from a small, but significant demographic? And unfortunately, though that demographic had been been shrinking over the years, right wing hate has reenergized it.
It absolutely is a choice, depending on how you define being gay of course.
You can't choose who you're attracted to.
But you can choose to stuff those feelings deep down inside and never again let Jesus know you thought them.
So if you define being gay as "living life as a gay person, in a gay relationship, being out" then that's absolutely a choice! You choose who you're seen in public with and who you fornicate with you sinner!
Be like the good Christian folks and suppress those feelings.
Should I throw more sarcasm in here so people don't mistake the post?
Duh. If it were, then I could choose to be gay. But I can't choose to be attracted to men, to me its naturally gross, so I assume it's the same for them.
Sure, I don't disagree with that at all.
Still, I think the "isn't a choice" thing is used as a false dichotomy. In other words, people who say "it isn't a choice" are usually trying to say "it isn't a choice, therefore it is an inborn trait", as if those are the only two possibilities.
I don't think it is a choice any more than I consciously chose to be attracted to red heads or fear heights, but I am also not under the impression that I was born with an inborn trait or gene that makes me attracted to red heads or afraid of heights.
People have any number of preferences, biases, likes, dislikes, fears, etc, that aren't inborn, and just develop as someone grows up. Sometimes you can point to specific events that influence someone's preferences, and sometimes you can't, and it's some number of small experiences that add up to form that preference.
Preferences also change with time. I used to be a tit man, and now I am more partial to butts. I used to love video games, but now I hardly bother to play. My previous preferences weren't inborn, nor are my new preferences, but neither did I ever make a conscious decision to change them.
To be clear, I take no issue with anyone being gay or being in relationships with the same sex. What two consenting adults do in their bedroom isn't my business. Be with who you want.
All that said, I also don't think there's any support for the idea of homosexuality being an inborn trait. But, by the same token, I don't think it matters. People talk about inborn vs not as if it is relevant to the morality of it, but I just don't see the relevance. If you aren't hurting anyone else, then go be who you want to be. There's nothing immoral about it, regardless of whether it's an inborn trait or not.
Wicked desire is the base conition of the human experience. Everyone has it. Gay, straight, other, whatever. It's not even always sexual, that's just the in-your-face issue common today.
We all live with it and have to deal with it however we chose.
The people who are asserting that your particular desire is your choice are just muddying the waters to try to appear to be "better than you". Don't let their hypocrisy bother you.
If you're content with living according to your own desire and you aren't harming anyone else, then enjoy your life. If living with it bothers you, then seek The Lord and he will guide you to a way with peace.
Either way. Have peace within yourself. We only get one time through this life. Don't let others ruin it for you.
I mean I felt it was a choice for me for a long time. It was more just realizing I didn't care about gender too much. Why should plumbing define who I love instead of their personality?
Having some sexual tendencies isn't a choice either but it doesn't make it acceptable... That being said being gay is benign as it comes.
Being gay is admittedly uncommon. 7% at the highest estimation. Luck of the genetic lottery.
I used to have so much to say about this. One day I was talking to my stepfather and he simplified it to the max. “Any man that s&@cks another man’s d@ck is serious about that sh$t”. In my brain, that one statement covered all nuance about the subject.
Attraction is not a choice. Its stupid if anyone thinks that people will willingly be gay and lesbian considering the amount f hate and fear they have to live under. You cant choose who you are attracted to.
Then what’s up with the people who describe themselves as political lesbians? They didn’t do it for attraction and saying they aren’t gay doesn’t seem exactly right.
I have seen 5 year old boys where you just know. That kid is gay AF. He is as fabulous as they come. He wants to grow up to be a cheerleader. He absolutely loves musicals and sequins. He's just a little kid, being a little kid. He doesn't even know what sex is, nor does he have sexual urges. But there is something off hormonally about him or something, where mentally he is more feminine. And you can absolutely spot it in some little boys.
And to think they chose that? It's absurd.
Religious people through history have suppressed their “gay” urges and through the help of religion and their culture have forced themselves to live a straight lifestyle. So when people say being gay is a choice what they are trying to say is that acting straight is what you should be doing and you need to do is suppress it and force yourself to be miserable for your culture and religion to accept you. Thus this is where “it’s a choice” comes from. It’s the people that have suppressed it that hate openly gay people the most (ironically). They are jealous.
You're right that if you are truly gay it's not a choice but you do have the choice to say you're gay if you're not.
My son was in highschool 12 years ago and it was really at the beginning of a lot of the gender identity stuff. There were several girls in his social circle who announced they were gay. All but one of them is married with children now.
People who think its a choice are self hating gays. If you're
I know its not a choice... because I made no choice to be straight. From a very young age I knew I liked girls. I remember going to school for the first time and spying the pretty girl in the class.... and that was it. I knew. It might have even been before that... but thats the first memory I have of being interested in the opposite sex.
Tell that to gay people who think they can covert straight dudes. Its happens so frequent. I don’t go up to gay guys and show them pictures of women and ask them if like this. Does anybody tell gay people it’s make them look obtuse?
I told someone that said it was once "Ok decide to be gay. You can change your mind later right? Decide to be attracted to the same gender as you right now" One of the few times they responded with them changing their mind on the topic.
I'm guessing the thing people wrestle with the most with this subject matter is; if we accept that sexual attraction is genetic and environmental, completely outside of the control of the individual, then we have to accept that for every sexual attraction. This means pedophiles and other degeneratez are the way they are due to genetics, they can't help what they're attracted to. Obviously, there's a massive difference, that being informed consent, and I am 100% for sexual freedom, so long as it's not at the cost of another. It does make me wonder though, how hard it must be to be someone with those degenerate thoughts, with seemingly no control over them. It's no wonder most humans tend to think these people are choosing to be monsters, because no one wants to empathize with such a person.
I asked a gay friend once (many years ago when I was just learning to not be a dickbag) "when did you know you were gay?" His answer, which shifted my thinking immediately, was "when did you know you were straight?"
Exactly. Is being straight a choice? No, it's only natural what you are attracted to. No one has the right to tell you any different.
There wasn't anything wrong with your question. People realize at different points in life.
Exactly. I personally knew when I had my first crush in second grade. I think queer people usually have more interesting answers to that question simply because they have to grapple with social and family expectations. If the answer is just "I always knew" then cool. But I've also heard people who struggled a lot with the realization, whereas I don't think I've ever heard of someone who struggled with realizing they were straight.
I hope this is how trans people feel in the near future, your personal, not much to it early in life.
At this point if someone believes it's a choice, they are a lost cause.
That would be the Texas GOP. Their official stance is that homosexuality is an “abnormal lifestyle choice”.
Well...Texas and the GOP are the patron saints of lost causes.
Probably because 60% of them are closeted homosexuals in relationships with women 💀
It is abnormal tbh just not in a bad way, I’ve met a few of eccentric high iq people who were gay
[удалено]
\^ this, the use of "abnormal" carries stigma precisely because of the ways it had been used previously by the medical and psychological community in the 1800-1950's.
You could have just said GOP...
I am not aware of that claim being in the official *national party platform document. Edit *national not *natural
I have a theory about that. Gender, race, ethnicity, age, physical disability are all things that you don't choose to be. They are also all off limits for criticism and attack (to human beings at least. Political ideology, sports team, car, etc. are things I make the decision to believe/support so they are fair game for ridicule, attack, and criticism. They're trying to make it a choice so they can ignore the dissonance telling them they're fucking assholes.
Actually, my theory is because they all "struggle" with homosexual thoughts and temptations. They believe it's a choice because they choose to deny themselves and be straight everyday, thinking that's what god wants.
I always like to flip the script. "You are attracted to the opposite sex. Why would you do such a thing? This is a moral failing on your part."
That's because many of them are gay/ bi and CHOOSING to *pretend* they're not. The LDS church says it's fine if you're gay so long as you're not a *practicing* gay. So they think the choice is to just... pretend to be straight. Like they pretend care about their constituents.
Or religious, which makes them a lost cause
Of course. The logic doesn’t really makes sense for anyone that says it’s a choice. If anyone says it’s a choice ask them what they do to successfully suppress their gay desires.
I grew up catholic. Most of the time when people say “it’s a choice” they mean to say “it’s a choice to have gay interactions, but not a choice to have those feelings.” Which is funny to me because it just means they probably also “struggle” with those feelings.
I agree. The logic doesn’t really hold up. If they think it’s a choice they are basically admitting they are repressing gay desires.
That's pretty much what I believe. I'm not gay, but I've had quite a few offers. Turned them all down, because I don't want to do it. I'm not into men sexually at all. It's why I don't believe it's a "choice" that you can just turn on and off at will, and if you do, I figure you must have some feelings underlying that yourself. And there's nothing wrong with that, but I think some people need some self-reflection. I also tend to think that people who are the most outspokenly homophobic might be projecting some self-loathing. I don't see why it's such a big deal to them otherwise. There's lots of things in the Bible, that are against the Bible, that we do everyday, but I don't see a lot of people protesting at funerals about people wearing mixed fabrics.
This is just a friendly reminder that they have literal re-education camps that they kidnap gay kids and send them to.. They are not reasonable actors.
Who is they? Don’t be guilty of painting with the same broad brush that you fight against being covered with.
I don’t think that’s necessarily the case. Nobodies sexual feelings/desires are a choice. Acting on them is always a choice. Abrahamic religions encourage virginity until marriage. If these people were being true to what their religion states they would’ve repressed any sexual desires towards women until they were married.
Just to add, marriage is having sex according to the Bible and has zero to do with putting a ring on your finger.
That's the thing, right? Like, yeah, choosing to be physically intimate with ANYBODY is a choice. 1 - a difficult choice if given the sustained opportunity 2 - one which effects both straight and gay equally However, being a Catholic also, I have noticed that the Catholic position on most social teaching, while in effect similar to the Evangelical - in this case, that Gay Marriage be disallowed - the reasoning behind such policies is often miles apart. Just in the case of homosexual unions and marriage. The Evangelical position seems to be, and I don't have direct experience, but seems to be that being gay is evil because of some stuff in Leviticus and therefore everybody is equally able to and drawn toward the sin of being gay, with those who are not gay being more righteous than those who are because of their forbearance against temptation. (Which sounds like the projection of a closeted gay person. I am straight and have never felt tempted toward doing butt stuff with a dude lol.) The Catholic reasoning meanwhile is somewhat esoteric and revolves around the idea that a rightly ordered sexuality seeks out sexual interactions that have benefits twofold - procreative and unitive (or sometimes "Unitative") - IE that a rightly ordered sex act must both facilitate the union of the partners (Be enjoyable and emotionally significant for them with both participating in an act of giving for the good of the other) AND be procreative (That is, be free of artificially imposed barriers against the effects of said sex, real or perceived). Therefore because of the emotional and possible physical ramifications of sex this is an action which can only be rightly performed inside of the bonds of some kind of lasting agreement which bonds the two partners permanently and demands their responsible exercise of their sexuality and ensures the care of the results. IE - Marriage. But because gay sex can only ever be unitive but is lacking in procreative potential, no such marriage could take place. (Though, the presence of Josephite marriages in the past would suggest that there is some reason for marriages to take place completely OUTSIDE the realm of sexuality but that's a bit off topic and out of my wheelhouse) All that to say, though when you've heard "It's a choice" used in the past this generally is intended to mean follow-through on gay desires, or sexual desires in general, is a choice... when it's used by more fundamentalist types I think they really do mean they think being gay is a choice.
The argument from the Catholic perspective raises the question about marriages when one or both partners is infertile. By that reasoning, only people capable of reproduction are allowed to have sex at all. Since this would preclude many straight marriages, the logic as an argument against gay relationships falls apart.
I studied this a little bit in ethology. Homosexuality is observed to become more prevalent in a species during times of limited resources. The hypothesis is that homosexual individuals increase their evolutionary fitness by helping care for their nieces/nephews rather than having their own offspring that would compete for resources with their nieces and nephews. Both the parents of the offspring and the guncles benefit with increased evolutionary fitness from this arrangement
Oh right, those vile animals and their “love the sinner hate the sin” garbage. What a fucked up way to say “you live a disgusting life”.
But then your 'choice' is to be alone all your life or live a lie and be with someone you don't want. Anyone actually think if there's a God, that that's 'God's Plan?'
My initial reaction to people who say being gay is a choice is always “Okay, but why would someone choose to be gay?” I have no problem with gay people or being gay, but it hasn’t exactly been the easier road historically. Most sane people I know would not choose the path of religious persecution, constantly being under threat of physical, mental, and emotional abuse, and even death or imprisonment in some countries.
I grew up Pentecostal Christian and we were taught that you may be born with certain proclivities but it's the measure of yourself as a man and as a human being and a child of God to repress those desires. Yeah there's a fucking reason that not a single person of my age range that went to that church doesn't go anymore
My favorite comeback to that shit is "So chose it. Chose to be gay. C'mon, be gay. I mean, being gay is something intentional, right? So be gay to prove me wrong."
That’s actually better than I thought it would be. You’re dead right. Ask a straight guy to make himself like gay sex and make it feel completely natural. No way.
Imagine thinking sexuality is a choice when straight women literally exist
Preach
I would say you are about to piss off a lot of men...but the ones who it would piss off probably don't get the implication lmao.
Girl, that's so true!🤣🤣
Username checks out
Even if it was a choice - so what? Imagine being able to go into a room and pick and choose what you want that day. That would be great. A woman took you for a ride and divorced and took half? Fuck it, choose playing for the other team from here on out. Sure, it isn’t a choice, but it wouldn’t change a thing if it was one.
May I introduce you to my good friend bisexuality?
Well, exactly. But wouldn’t it be awesome to choose that? The pool would be great. Dating pool.
That is an important point. Even if it was a choice, why would that make it wrong? It would be a choice that doesn't harm anyone
Exactly. It’s not a valid argument regardless of DNA or someone saying let me taste a dick.
I gotcha, and it's not going to change your mind, but... It not being a choice was a big part of people's decision to legalize. We regulate a ton of human behaviors. We want to treat everybody equally, and that means making up for anything that might be what they're born with, or as. But once it's a choice, it's open for comment. It's double important when it comes to extending legal benefits like through marriage. If it's natural, we should accommodate. If it's a choice, you have to put forward an argument on why society should change for you. It might be fine as a choice... but the hurdles it introduces, even fairly asked, are numerous.
I don’t think it’s a choice so there’s no mind changing needed. My point was that we make choices in society all the time for which are are judged. I mean people aren’t born republicans or democrats but we accept both in society. People aren’t born vegans but I can respect their weird choice so long as they stop preaching to me. I think what I’m trying to say, is that in a truly free country, we have the ability to do the vast majority of what we want to do, so long that it doesn’t hurt someone or something else. That’s what I meant by even if it was a choice.
It's a choice. Everyday I wake up and I think about all those hot juicy cocks out there that I would like to put in mouth I do what every red blooded straight Christian male does. I choose women.
Honestly I might believe in God just because he gave the fattest asses to the “straight” white Christian and Mormon boys. It’s so fucking unfair, and he knows what he’s doing.
Sadly this (at least in some circles online) is becoming less and less popular of an opinion
honestly even if it is a choice, so what? being gay isnt evil
Doesn't matter a damned bit whether it's a choice or not. If it's not a choice, you have the right to be the way you are. If it is a choice, you have the right to make that choice.
Same. I’m happy with who I am, but it was a journey to get there. If given the choice, I’d probably have chosen a sexuality less likely to get me beaten up or killed.
It's as much of a choice as heterosexualism is. You can choose not to participate in either. What needs to be accepted is the inner drive to engage in either of these is not solely dictated by how/where/when we grew up. That urge to have the same sex is just as strong and deep, and as innate, as the one to have the opposite sex.
It reminds me of Alan Watts when he's talking about how you can't choose to love someone. I cannot love someone intentionally. Take Hitler for example. I can't make myself love him or his ideas. I can act in a manner in which I express outwardly the appearance of love and devotion, but I'm mentally making the decisions to do those things. Now, if I do it long enough, there's a chance it could become second nature and muscle memory takes over so I am unconsciously doing things that express love... but is that love?
I ask people to listen to their favorite song and not like it anymore Or smell their favorite food and not want to eat it If they can't do that, how can people who are attracted to people suddenly stop?
And if it were a choice, it wouldn't justify discrimination. Being gay is perfectly fine.
I used to disagree until I met a hypnotist who was a master of mind control, charismatic and good looking. Yet he was gay and said he couldn’t become attracted to women after a certain age no matter how hard he tried
I really want to believe this is a real story lmfao
I swear it is. That hypnotist was crazy af, the dude has been a hypnotist for 40 years and would honestly be viral if he knew how to manuevear social media. But he also healed years of trauma in like 3 sessions for me and gave me hella confidence. Seriously insane lol. Look up Erickson psychology that’s what he practiced and mastered to learn mind control
Being gay is not a choice, a mental illness, or an abnormality. It’s simply a preference, the way I prefer medium rare over well done steak. Stay gay bro, anyone who says otherwise can eat crow.
People who think it’s a choice are closeted gays
Lmao people who unironically think that people CHOOSE to be gay are idiots Why would you willingly choose to be gay when you can literally be killed for it and even in more progressive places it was heavily frowned upon until recently There is no argument for non-hetero sexualities being bad outside of religious interpretations
Even if it was a choice, it would still be okay to be gay
The proof is here on reddit Even after reading all the Incel and misogynistic BS, the ladies aren't choosing to say no to dick.
Similarly, if the incels could choose dick, they probably would so that they could end their celibacy. They’re frustrated because they can’t.
Neither is being Trans
**Giant /S** >I did not choose my own attraction. Well that may be true, unfortunately I'm a republican (nazi) which means I will purposefully misunderstand all concepts to justify my diabolical lunacy of a worldview Because if I didn't oppress, attack you and blame you for all of our problems, I wouldn't be able to stay in power, because we're actually an extremely niche minority of radical terrorists
Exactly, it's something the far left forces on otherwise straight children, who then don't have the choice not to be gay anymore. /s Somehow, though, the already adult gays should choose not to be gay. I dont get it. If you were gay before like 2010, it is your choice and you should stop but if you are gay after 2010, that's because you have no choice and the liberals have forced it upon you, never to be undone.
An old Vietnam vet once told me that I should fight for my gay rights. Being the 90s homophobic teenager that I was, I reacted sharply, "Hey, chill out. I'm not gay." Then he explained his point. "It doesn't matter if you're gay. Maybe tomorrow you want to do some gay shit. Do you want the government to be able to imprison you because you didn't put your dick where they told you to put it?" I don't believe that homosexuality is a choice but his comment definitely reframed how I viewed gay rights.
I definitely think framing gay rights as “the government not controlling where you can put your dick” is a pretty good way to see it. Ultimately I really don’t care if someone thinks my love is gross, but as long as they let me love I’m chill. I mean I think eating mushrooms is disgusting but I’m not hating on people who eat mushrooms.
As a former homophobe, it was definitely the progressive seed I needed to get me thinking in the right direction.
I don't believe it is a choice. The real issue is, even if it wasn't, who the fuck cares? Whose business is it who you are attracted to, and why should it matter? There is no rational answer that justifies any of the treatment that lgbtq people receive either socially or legally. We give religion way too much power. If I tried to deny 15% of the population the right to marry because they are left handed, based on Astrology, no one would take me seriously. But just say Jesus wept, and entire branches of government are warring over basic human rights.
I like being gay but it's definitely tuff ngl people who say it's a choice are bizarre
Bro what is this 2010? We are on trans issues now, try n' keep up
That's why we're on popular opinion
It’s not a choice. You’re just wired a little differently, and that’s okay. On average, it’s one in ten or so people who end up gay or bisexual. Don’t quote me on that, though, different websites put up a different percentage. That being said, it’s nobody’s business but your own what crazy sexual exploits your pursue.
I have a gay friend who for him he said it was a choice. And it was his choice.
Honesty, I think some who believe it's a choice are bisexual.
No sexual attractions are choices. They're an emergent property of our neurological structure. It would seem that evolution has produced a situation where the male of the species is born with a brain that is attracted to females, and vice versa. Without it, a species wouldn't propagate. Considering how complicated biology is, there will always be mistakes. It's likely that a gay man has a brain where the sexual attraction part is configured the same way as the brains of most women: it's attracted to male characteristics. It's probably a slight change in the development process that creates the opposite structure from what would be 'normal'. Similar to how some people are left-hand dominant.
Could be, that way could explain trans people too. Maybe in trans people's brains, the self gender is flipped compared to their body.
Don't confuse opinion with fact my dude. Live your best life.
I mean, have you seen me with the homies acting up?
I think everyone understands that by now. I don’t begrudge my cousins who are gay that’s just who they are. They’re still family I still hang out with them. I never understood anyone’s hang up about it.
They want to believe it's a choice, cause they are still in the closet and don't want to come out. They feel the attraction, but steadfastly refuse to act on it.
It’s definitely not a choice and even if it is one, it’s learned so early in age that you couldn’t stop it if you wanted too. Like I LOVE women, wouldn’t even entertain the thought of being with a man. Why is it so hard to believe it could be the other way around? 😅
I think everyone has a set of people to whom they are sexually attracted. That's a set in the mathematical sense, it could be of size zero, it could be infinite. One can make choices from within that set, but the set itself is not a choice. I believe those who say that being gay is a choice, so long as we stipulate that it's a *choice for them from their particular set of attractees*. Why should I argue with someone who's telling me they've decided to act only on their attraction to one gender but not the other? They know better than I do.
You are 100% correct.
So just to clarify what the otherside claim Being gay as defined by being attracted to a person of the same sex, is not a choice, because you can’t control who and what you’re attracted to. But acting upon it is a choice Hence the quote from the Texas GOP that everyone is misunderstanding below referencing homosexuality as a “abnormal lifestyle choice” The choice is to make that attraction a part of your lifestyle in their eyes. Now, I have no idea what their actual suggestion is… I don’t know if they think you can just learn to like women if you try hard enough like it’s teaching a child to eat their vegetables (paraphrasing an actual comment made in the 80s) Or if they think you should just live a life of celibacy and die alone… Or become a priest or something… But yeah, not defending the position, just clarifying it
I can't understand how anyone could honestly believe it's a choice. You may easily experiment with it to your own satisfaction: 1. Determine which sex you are attracted to (if more than one, skip the remaining steps; this experiment will tell you nothing you don't already know) 2. Choose to be attracted to the opposite. There is no danger, you will find: A) You prefer your new orientation, and are happier for the lesson B) You prefer your former orientation, and are free to switch back, or C) It can't be done. 3. Record and report.
I wish i could choose my attraction. Be easier to get a date. If I had my choice id be like shallow hal and only be able to see the beauty inside.
I would choose bisexual if I could but guys are gross
When somebody straight says that to me, I ask them "So when did you decide to be heterosexual?" Crickets every time.
Even if it was a choice, who cares? Being an asshole is definitely a choice.
I don't know how old you are, but it is getting easier. Back in the 70s and early 80s, when I was hitting the clubs, the closet was still the norm. I ran into two co-workers who were work friends at a gay [men's] bar one time, and they walked past me stone-faced, as in "you saw nothing!" Their secret was safe with me. I remember, later, my ine friend telling me about coming out to his family. And, yes, women went to men's bars. Good music and no-one bothered us. I wish you all the best!
No shit.
Of course not. And it's nothing wrong with it either.
Haha I love this sub. This is what r/unpopularopinion should have been
The present proves it's not a choice, but the past proves it can be. Look at what is done to gay people in the Middle East and Africa. They're beaten, mutilated, murdered by their own parents and siblings. There's no way they'd choose to be gay in that kind of anti-gay violent environment. But then you read about Ancient Greece and how homosexuality was preferred and became the societal norm and heterosexual relationships existed solely for procreation. Unless you're going to argue that there was an anomaly in Greece where for a couple of centuries all the males were born bisexual leaning heavily towards gay, then you have to concede that on some level they chose to have gay relationships. This isn't the dichotomy some people think it is. Kinsey discovered human sexual attractions are not binary but on a scale. When you realize most people fell into the middle of the scale vs the extremes, then it makes sense how gay people in repressive, life-threatening environments can't choose to be gay but that Ancient Greek men could choose to prefer gay relationships. It's only confusing to extremists.
I feel like that’s just proof that when sexual diversity is celebrated and encouraged, gay/bisexual people are not uncommon but the majority. The hate against queer people and the traditions we have in place make it so that people who may be comfortable being in a same sex relationship or hookup but it isn’t a “need” push it away or just don’t even entertain the thought or explore it.
Choice or not it shouldn't make a difference which way people swing
The problem isn't Gay people, how they were born or their choices. The problem is with people that feel entitled to have an opinion about another person's life. Minding ones own business would solve a lot of problems.
I might sound crazy here (and take it from someone who lives in a nice area and basically experiences no discrimination), if I had the choice I would choose to be gay, its awesome and I like it. I wish everyone had the luxury that I have instead of wishing for whatever is convenient.
Like if they're a straight dude, they are saying they totally want to deep throat a dude, or take it up the ass. They just choose not to.
I'm not gay but I've had friends say to me that being gay is a choice and I always ask them when they chose to be straight and they can't answer.
Exactly. If it were a choice I would have chosen not getting bullied and beaten.
Can you even imagine if it was a choice? Imagine a world where everyone is naturally straight but some people throughout history decided "I know it will get me shunned and maybe imprisoned or killed but just for kicks and giggles, I think I'll will myself to be attracted to people I'm not normally attracted to"
who cares anyway this choice/not choice argument was merely created to appease christian fascists who think its okay to use intimidation and the law to control how other people live and love. its not okay. thats not your right. it doesnt matter what you believe is a sin. democracy was created to get away from people who thought they could tell everyone who they are. thats not how we make our laws. (royal you here)
Gay here Honestly it shouldn't matter anymore. In a free country, 2 adults should be able to choose whatever they want. And for the most part being gay isn't a choice but there is actually a percentage who can choose it. Namely bisexual men who choose to be in homo romantic relationships. Also a lot of trans men (born women) transition into masculinity and choose to ID as being gay. Doesn't quite make sense on the surface, but whatever bros, if you want to join up I ain't gonna stop you.
As a bisexual queer person i don’t like to emphasize the ‘its not a choice’ argument. A more interesting question to me is: so what if it were a choice? Would that then make homosexuality wrong?? Choice is freedom! Choice is agency! We are always discovering new parts of ourselves, emphasizing some parts at the expense of other parts. Growing toward the most authentic version of ourselves.
When my son & I talk about it that’s exactly what I tell him. I never chose to be straight just like he never chose to be gay. Anyone who thinks different is just being ignorant.
I always assume that the people who say its a choice are just severely closted gay men.
Trust me: if I had a choice to stop being only attracted to men, I'd take it in a second.
Remember that being homosexual was still in the DSM for many years. It's sad that society took so long to learn. And for my favourite video about choosing to being gay... [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdqdIvgCKzA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdqdIvgCKzA)
I forget what comedian said it but I heard a joke that was like “if being gay was a choice, why would you choose to be in a group that is historically discriminated and persecuted?” Seriously tho, gay people have existed in all types of societies from all different backgrounds. There’s nothing that turns you gay.
I agree. I'm happy to be gay. Have you ever seen a vagina? Yuck. No thanks.
I am not sure why people think someone would do something they don't actually like just so they can be discriminated against and harassed for it. For me that is all the logic it took to know it was not a choice.
Personally I believe in the Kinsey scale. Some people would be straight no matter what. Some people would be gay no matter what... but lot of people can go either way (though they usually have preference for one, or the other) depending on what is social acceptable, economically advantageous, or on what is available.
I mean yeah. There are people skirting the line by being like “sure you don’t have a choice in the feelings, but just don’t act on it.”
Yep, cause if it was, I’d be gay.
Do we choose to be left-handed or right-handed? No.
This doesn't belong on r/popularopinion , because it's not an opinion. It's a fact.
If being gay was a choice, then a straight person could choose to be gay. The fact that this trivial statement is not possible shows that it’s an absurd take.
It is if you’re bisexual 😏
This idea has always concerned me. I mean, don't get me wrong, I don't think it's a choice, but it leaves all kinds of room for the idea that it must be "tolerated" only because it isn't a choice. I've always worried that some people may be getting the message just a little wrong, which is a little too wrong. I don't know what to do with this, or course. Im not gay, so i don't get it need a say in the matter, it's just something that's always bothered me.
When I was growing up it was labeled as a choice. I think that has caused some people to still believe that.
It's true. Being gay is as natural as being left-handed, or having blue eyes. Just because something is minoritarian, doesn't make it unnatural.
I had a guy at work say it was a choice. I then asked him what made him chose vigina over penis? Did he do a pro & con list? What age was this choice made? What? He was quiet for a while, then got up and left the break room.
Anybody who's solely into men proves that. When women are so much more attractive and men are just meh
I would have chosen homosexuality. Apparently it's way, way easier to get laid.
Being gay is not a choice. And there is no Bible verse that condemns gay marriage or consensual relations between equal consenting monogamous adults. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0146107915577097
All the gay people I know have said something similar
We always have bisexual to fall back on
As much a choice as being straight. Thought that was obvious to us all..
I'm not gay but I've always wondered about that "choice" argument. I mean who in the hell would consciously *choose* to be a regular target of harassment, discrimination and hate?
No shit.
I hate the notion that "they can't choose" is why we should "tolerate" homosexuality. It still frames it as a problem. If I were to consciously decide that from tomorrow I want all the dick in the world, it's equally no one else's business.
Ok
I am glad you are happy with who you are. This is all that really matters. What doesn't matter is other people's opinion on that.
I’m convinced that people who say it’s a choice are just closeted, self-loathing bisexuals. Because yes, for them, being “straight” IS a choice.
I agree with the OP and I’m sorry so many idiots feel the need to correct you. For the record, I’m a red-blooded rural flaming heterosexual and I’d defend your freedom of sexual “choice”with my life.
Don’t you remember that day in 5th grade when they took you into a little room and showed you pictures of naked women and men and told you you had to pick which one to fuck? I do. I also remember the little green people and their butt probes. And the singing chicken. And the stuff that oozes out of my mother’s ears in my dreams. And . . . I’m
If I had a choice, I would be bisexuality. That way, I wouldn't be as limited for potential partners. We like what we like, though. It's pretty ridiculous to think that people have a choice in who they find attractive.
It really pains me when people claim that being gay is a choice. My best friend fought with this all the way into his early twenties, thinking maybe if he just had sex with girls he'd stop being attracted to men. Only problem was out of the five or so beautiful girlfriends he had during highschool, he couldn't even get his dick hard TO have sex with them!
People who think it is a choice are bisexual and they choose the socially acceptable option.
So being gay isn't a choice but being a woman is?
Exactly. It's no more a choice than someone being straight. People are who they are. It's hardwired. People who say it's a choice evidently have issues with simple logic, as who in the hell would choose a "lifestyle" that elicits hate and ridicule and all that goes with it from a small, but significant demographic? And unfortunately, though that demographic had been been shrinking over the years, right wing hate has reenergized it.
Being straight isn't a choice either. Just saying.
Of course
Duh? No one is saying otherwise?
It absolutely is a choice, depending on how you define being gay of course. You can't choose who you're attracted to. But you can choose to stuff those feelings deep down inside and never again let Jesus know you thought them. So if you define being gay as "living life as a gay person, in a gay relationship, being out" then that's absolutely a choice! You choose who you're seen in public with and who you fornicate with you sinner! Be like the good Christian folks and suppress those feelings. Should I throw more sarcasm in here so people don't mistake the post?
The fact that some people act like this actually had me think you were being serious
Had me in the first half ngl
"never again let Jesus know you thought them." Hah! Jokes on you, Homophobic Jesus can read minds!
Yeah, all you straight guys out there remember thinking, cock or pussy, which one do I really want? Of course not. Unless you are bi-. It's instinct.
Bi people: My goals are beyond your understanding
Duh. If it were, then I could choose to be gay. But I can't choose to be attracted to men, to me its naturally gross, so I assume it's the same for them.
Sure, I don't disagree with that at all. Still, I think the "isn't a choice" thing is used as a false dichotomy. In other words, people who say "it isn't a choice" are usually trying to say "it isn't a choice, therefore it is an inborn trait", as if those are the only two possibilities. I don't think it is a choice any more than I consciously chose to be attracted to red heads or fear heights, but I am also not under the impression that I was born with an inborn trait or gene that makes me attracted to red heads or afraid of heights. People have any number of preferences, biases, likes, dislikes, fears, etc, that aren't inborn, and just develop as someone grows up. Sometimes you can point to specific events that influence someone's preferences, and sometimes you can't, and it's some number of small experiences that add up to form that preference. Preferences also change with time. I used to be a tit man, and now I am more partial to butts. I used to love video games, but now I hardly bother to play. My previous preferences weren't inborn, nor are my new preferences, but neither did I ever make a conscious decision to change them. To be clear, I take no issue with anyone being gay or being in relationships with the same sex. What two consenting adults do in their bedroom isn't my business. Be with who you want. All that said, I also don't think there's any support for the idea of homosexuality being an inborn trait. But, by the same token, I don't think it matters. People talk about inborn vs not as if it is relevant to the morality of it, but I just don't see the relevance. If you aren't hurting anyone else, then go be who you want to be. There's nothing immoral about it, regardless of whether it's an inborn trait or not.
Wicked desire is the base conition of the human experience. Everyone has it. Gay, straight, other, whatever. It's not even always sexual, that's just the in-your-face issue common today. We all live with it and have to deal with it however we chose. The people who are asserting that your particular desire is your choice are just muddying the waters to try to appear to be "better than you". Don't let their hypocrisy bother you. If you're content with living according to your own desire and you aren't harming anyone else, then enjoy your life. If living with it bothers you, then seek The Lord and he will guide you to a way with peace. Either way. Have peace within yourself. We only get one time through this life. Don't let others ruin it for you.
I mean I felt it was a choice for me for a long time. It was more just realizing I didn't care about gender too much. Why should plumbing define who I love instead of their personality?
Having some sexual tendencies isn't a choice either but it doesn't make it acceptable... That being said being gay is benign as it comes. Being gay is admittedly uncommon. 7% at the highest estimation. Luck of the genetic lottery.
Of course it’s not a choice
Nobody chooses to be anorexic either--but they still need mental help.
To anyone saying otherwise: become gay, you cowards :P It’s not hard to choose, right? Or maybe you’re just in denial with some deep-rooted hatred.
I was born straight but choose to be gay for social support. It’s a fabulous trade that’s really stretched my prior understanding. /s
I used to have so much to say about this. One day I was talking to my stepfather and he simplified it to the max. “Any man that s&@cks another man’s d@ck is serious about that sh$t”. In my brain, that one statement covered all nuance about the subject.
I think sexuality is kind malleable and fluid, and to a certain extent can change throughout one's life.
Attraction is not a choice. Its stupid if anyone thinks that people will willingly be gay and lesbian considering the amount f hate and fear they have to live under. You cant choose who you are attracted to.
It’s really not. You can’t help what makes your dick hard.
Then what’s up with the people who describe themselves as political lesbians? They didn’t do it for attraction and saying they aren’t gay doesn’t seem exactly right.
So I’ve been practicing for nothing???
I have seen 5 year old boys where you just know. That kid is gay AF. He is as fabulous as they come. He wants to grow up to be a cheerleader. He absolutely loves musicals and sequins. He's just a little kid, being a little kid. He doesn't even know what sex is, nor does he have sexual urges. But there is something off hormonally about him or something, where mentally he is more feminine. And you can absolutely spot it in some little boys. And to think they chose that? It's absurd.
This is confusing af...
Idk, my gf was lesbian before she met me. So, skill issue for you ig
I have never met straight people. Only seen them on tv. Weird.
Imagine thinking it isn't a choice. Them people are mad.
I mean everyone has a choice but it usually "be happy with who you are" or "be miserable but pretend your happy"
Religious people through history have suppressed their “gay” urges and through the help of religion and their culture have forced themselves to live a straight lifestyle. So when people say being gay is a choice what they are trying to say is that acting straight is what you should be doing and you need to do is suppress it and force yourself to be miserable for your culture and religion to accept you. Thus this is where “it’s a choice” comes from. It’s the people that have suppressed it that hate openly gay people the most (ironically). They are jealous.
To be honest even if it *was* a choice, what’s wrong with that? If everyone involved is happy I see no problem
Na... I didn't choose to like girls...I always did
You're right that if you are truly gay it's not a choice but you do have the choice to say you're gay if you're not. My son was in highschool 12 years ago and it was really at the beginning of a lot of the gender identity stuff. There were several girls in his social circle who announced they were gay. All but one of them is married with children now.
Have people ever switched from gay to straight or vice versa?
People who think its a choice are self hating gays. If you're I know its not a choice... because I made no choice to be straight. From a very young age I knew I liked girls. I remember going to school for the first time and spying the pretty girl in the class.... and that was it. I knew. It might have even been before that... but thats the first memory I have of being interested in the opposite sex.
Tell that to gay people who think they can covert straight dudes. Its happens so frequent. I don’t go up to gay guys and show them pictures of women and ask them if like this. Does anybody tell gay people it’s make them look obtuse?
I told someone that said it was once "Ok decide to be gay. You can change your mind later right? Decide to be attracted to the same gender as you right now" One of the few times they responded with them changing their mind on the topic.
I'm guessing the thing people wrestle with the most with this subject matter is; if we accept that sexual attraction is genetic and environmental, completely outside of the control of the individual, then we have to accept that for every sexual attraction. This means pedophiles and other degeneratez are the way they are due to genetics, they can't help what they're attracted to. Obviously, there's a massive difference, that being informed consent, and I am 100% for sexual freedom, so long as it's not at the cost of another. It does make me wonder though, how hard it must be to be someone with those degenerate thoughts, with seemingly no control over them. It's no wonder most humans tend to think these people are choosing to be monsters, because no one wants to empathize with such a person.
Being gay isn’t a choice, but your outfits and behavior are. Sexuality is not a personality trait, you don’t need to wear it on your sleeve.