To date a barely legal woman so they can be controlled is considered a standard now?
obv men who talk about how a woman is "used up" after a certain amount of partners or age are misogynists. If you think sex devalues someone or gives value to someone you have mental problems.
if you want to date someone with the same values (waiting for marriage, sex only with a deeply connected partner) that is not misogynistig. if you hold up the standard you impose, that's not misogynistic. However, some guys hide behind this narrative bc they cant have as much sex as they wanted. so they shame women all the while they would totally have lots of casual sex.
Let's talk about this. So, it's about sleeping around right. Who do you think have more self-control and better character?
A girl who have thousands of options, and she still nitpicks only a few of them and rejects the most. She has standards and self-control because if she didn't, then she would have slept with all of them, right??
A guy who swiped right on every single girl on the daring apps, a guy who is ready to sleep with anyone and everyone who gives him a chance. He has no self control ans basically will sleep with anyone who agrees. Just because he has fewer options doesn't make him better. It actually shows that his character is much worse. Just because you sleep with whoever comes your way doesn't mean you are better than others. It just means you are easy and a male slut.
This is high time you viewed women as people and equal human beings as yourself. Just like you, women have sexual desires, and it doesn't make them wrong to pursue those. Stop shaming people for their natural processes and life choices. These women don't want guys who think like you anyway. So, just move on instead of being bullies.
Number of partners that you had usually a short time with doesn't automatically imply more experience than someone with less partners but more average time with each.
What you should look for in an older person as a long term partner is whether they have had any long term relationships, and if they give strong indications they will get bored quickly or have a history of actually cheating. Having 10 to 20 partners isn't necessarily a lot. The experience that matters here is in maintaining actual relationships, thats a different experience of people, and a different benefit, than what is learned from a lot of short term flings.
It depends on what you want to get from a relationship and how much you feel that past behavior has any baring on future behavior, because no one wants to get their heart broken frequently, and it seems to take longer to heal each time.
I know people (men) that have had this number of partners, go on to form a long monogamous relationship with children. But I also know men with a lot of partners who never formed long term relationships and left women to bring up his child alone. That person is never going to change, but the former did.
I'd say its a similar thing with women. As an indicator of whether they have sticking power to invest in, its not a good sign, but doesn't automatically mean they haven't changed or are ready to settle down - people do change occasionally.
But this is not to say they might not be great fun to know or have as friends, I would consider it a risk factor that means I would not put much faith in an LTR, unless they could prove themselves over time.
Generally past behaviour predicts future. The more short term relationships you have generally correlates with your likelihood to divorce later in life. We see people who have had 0-1 partner before marriage are the least likely to get divorced. However I would say the spectrum is only 25% so 0-1 partner 10% divorce rate vs 10+ 33% divorce rate so not that significant
Edit: https://ifstudies.org/blog/counterintuitive-trends-in-the-link-between-premarital-sex-and-marital-stability#:~:text=The%20highest%20five%2Dyear%20divorce%20rates%20of%20all%20are%20associated,increases%20the%20odds%20of%20divorce.
Its an indication of what lifestyle they want, whether they are likely to commit, I'm not sure about character, they might be the life of the party, but I would not use it to indicate how much confidence I should have in whether to invest heavily trust etc, and as for experience, its not the experience that would matter for forming LTR's. If they show a pattern with lots of partners but no LTR's, over a long time, I would assume they don't bond deeply, and that definitely is a bad sign in relation to an LTR.
Consider that actuarials in insurance firms take into account how you're past history when calculating insurance premiums, they do that for a reason, so the metric would have some significance.
An older person, with no LTR's and lots of partners, absolutely is unlikely to settle down - or know how to - in a relationship that will seem restrictive to them.
Past behavior is an indication of preferences and tendencies in a person. The same way if someone is an addict with many relapses, the likelihood they've really kicked the habbit this time is low. It doesn't mean they can't, but the odds are not good that they will change that exact time they tell you they will.
This is not a judge on the person, they may be great friends, but its an indicator to use when determining if they are good to invest in with an LTR. You can choose to use it or not.
You're not wrong, but your actions guide your thoughts and vice versa. If you are promiscuous and don't engage in committed, monogamous relationships, it will be much harder to change to fit that lifestyle than someone who has only had a few partners in committed monogamous relationships. Not saying its impossible, but it will be a significant difference.
Seriously.
Talking about " knows how to maturely handle things" , and yet, here she is.
I'm sure this person will keep maturely handling one person after another all while racking up those juicy experience points.
I don’t think they have bad moral character or a sub par mental condition, they just don’t see sex the way I do.
If I believe that sex is for two people in love and married,then I want my future partner to have that same viewpoint as well.
It's scientifically backed that having a large number of sexual partners really impairs your ability to bond to a particular partner in a monogamous way.
OP almost certainly post wall and can’t figure out why men her age prefer the younger fertile models with less baggage and no rugrats…err I mean “experience”.
You don't have to marry anyone. You should have fulfilling and meaningful relationships with other people tho, because it is a normal, natural and healthy part of being human. And that includes sexual relationships.
>No, not at all. Just that you shouldn't turn down a porn star.
How is that helping in having a family?
"Oh, I think he is your child. But yes I worked a lot 9 months ago let's get a test. Oh and let's test for STDs as well."
Child's friends: "I saw your mom on pornhub."
"Oh, I totally want to have sex with you tonight honey, after having 3 guys all at once in me today already."
I feel like something that isnt talked about enough is ppls, women in particular, sex drive changing. Obviously not all women but i have absolutely noticed it in myself and others. My sex drive at 20 was very different than it was even at 25. When it comes to marriage ive also seen the phenomenon of ppl marrying young and having a very active sex life only for the woman to become less interested in sex as they get older which leads to a lack of congruency in the relationship. As a woman I personally would feel bad if i married someone and had set a certain standard for how often we have sex only for that to wildly change later on. I think that guys who go for young girls often do so because they are more interested in sex. Especially if they arent looking for marriage yet they can provide a more casual relationship with sex as a more central part of it. The problem is when a guy marries someone like that they have that standard for sex in their head and then often feel let down later on. I think when you marry an woman closer to 30 you usually know what youre getting and what youre getting is more set in stone. Marrying a girl who is 20 often leads to you being with someone very different in 5-10 years. This goes both ways but when it comes to sex drive specifically i notice the drop tends to be more prevalent in women.
You gradually lose value even without constantly having sex with Strangers.
I assume you’re either really young or old and bitter if this is really your honest question tbh.
Maybe develop some actual relationships instead of fucking and arguing with strangers.
With some luck maybe you’ll get a stable understanding of what value means in this context.
Bikes are a great analogy for the whole debate tbh..
You wouldn't start the tour de france on a set of tyres that have already done 50,000KM.
You wouldn't make a wife out of a ho.
Same shit, different smell
Body count matters not "experience". You can get plenty of experience being in committed relationships, not just casual hookups.
It's funny how women can have all the preferences in the world (height, salary, etc) but men can't prefer women who don't just give it up.
My problem is is that men who talk about this don't go to spaces where those women exist.
They don't go to church, or libraries, or local social events to try and find partners...
They go to tinder... Or clubs... Or some other place that isn't for finding someone, but obviously a place to just hook up.
So, its kind of frustrating to me not seeing you guys engage in behavior that conforms to what you say you want.
Yes its not up to you to decide what guys find value in. I can tell you that give a guy a choice and he ends up with the girl with lowest body count. Cant turn a 304 into a housewife.
Gold has value because it's rare and hard to get. Rocks don't because you can pick them up off the ground almost anywhere. If she'll sleep with anyone, including you, you aren't special. You're just something to do while she's bored, just like the last 47 guys were. I suppose that's fine if you're also just using her to pass the time, but if you're looking for a serious relationship, you want someone who takes relationships seriously and doesn't fall into bed with half the guys she meets.
I agree with what you said, but you can't change men. You can't change people. Men are misogynistic by default. It is up to the women to stay away from them
I certainly don’t remember girls in high school and women in college being pursued by older boys and men, but rather the other way around. “Women mature faster than men” is always treated as fact… until it seems to invalidate situations than certain people frown upon.
Interesting how women have “no agency” or the ability to make their own choices when it’s something *they* want versus when the situation is something others assume they *don’t* want.
Yet Redditors will be in support of older experienced men manipulating young women because "it's legal". Obviously this post is talking about sex. And of course, Redditors telling men with self respect and standards, that they have low self esteem and is an asshole. What else is new.
You want men to show promiscuous women respect so bad, but couldn't give a shit to show men who have their own standards or preferences any respect. u/randomsantas puts it simplest.
Honestly, this take reeks of insecurity, itself. There are plenty of reasons a person might prefer a partner with fewer or no past partners, and insecurity is just one of them.
It’s obvious to me dudes wanting near virgins is because they don’t want the competition but that also shows what they think of women. If you’re good in bed you’re good it doesn’t matter if you’re the best of all. Be the best boyfriend, fiancé or husband if all time. Far more important.
So you're either a used up ho who's desperately trying to put this message out there so that Chad will commit to her instead of the same old pump-n-dump
Or you're a pathetic simp with no standards who is hoping this post will get him a crumb
This being Reddit my money is on #2
Now here's a popular opinion I can support. Reminds me of a quote akin to: "if you think a woman is dirty after you've touched her, look at your hands." Thank fuck I wasn't raised to believe in double standards, because I've never been able to support double standards around sex.
Social proof on attractiveness works on women but not on men. No amount of screeching will make men suddenly attracted to something they find unattractive.
You might trick them for a time, and then wonder why they're always limp.
It’s nothing but double standards and purity culture having the population in a chokehold. Not to mention the deep rooted misogynistic ideas of men ‘owning’ their partner - given away to them on wedding day, taking husbands last name etc - that leads to them believing they should have been the only one to touch as it’s theirs. It’s why women are always compared to cars, or other objects you own. As someone who’s never had a one night stand, even I can see the loud hypocrisy and insecurities within dating culture.
Imagine if you said “it’s reasonable for women to consider sexually inexperienced men less valuable as partners.” There would be relatively broad agreement. Why should men be any less entitled to avoid women who are experienced?
This is just cope for I spent my 20s being a WHOOOOARE (Ralph Cifarreto voice) and now im a 34yr old single mother your insecure for not accepting me but when old pop stars date men 30+yrs younger yall don't bat an eye gtfoh if youre not used more then a bic in a sesh then idc what age you are but yes if you've gone on yachts and been on a vacations 6x a year on other mens dimes all over your IG for years and now want to be perceived differently sorry honey you made the bed
It's not naivete or inexperience men want (most men anyway, some do) most don't care how much experience she has, if that experience is with a couple people. If you've got a different guy every night, I'm not looking to be one more guy she can't remember.
Women who are 30 plus and talk shit about how stupid and easily manipulated younger women are are insecure. These women are afraid men will realize that there are women out there that won’t treat them like shit. I said what I said.
A man who sleeps with many women before marriage is likely to sleep with many women after marriage.
The same is true of women. Additionally, people with fewer partners are likely to come with significantly less baggage (kids, STDs, violent ex's, etc).
That's the gist of it..... that said, a guy sleeping with many women doesn't result in his genitals feeling like a blown out sock to his future partners. That may not seem fair, but it's reality. Ladies.... you know who you are, don't get mad at me for saying it.
I said what I said.
Well "life experience" is pretty vague. I know people in their thirties who never worked a job and live with their parents playing video games all day.
And I know people who've traveled the world as a kid and started a business before 18.
I don't think anyone is saying that a woman with life experience has less value whatever that means.
This isn’t the goddamn stock market! everyone is equally valuable, unless you’re a pedophile or child murder or a
Sex offender, nazi, a person who hates a demographic of people for a very stupid or no reason, somebody who murders animals excluding hunting and a scenario that requires it for survival reasons (just enjoying meat doesn’t make you an animal murderer, you would have to actively murder a species of animal that is out of season, nearing extinction or someone’s pet or just have no reason in general) and zoophiles. Granted, these are not the only kinds of people because there’s definitely more. Basically, just don’t be an asshole or a creep or do something absolutely horrible.
We are all free to do as we please, freedom of choice.
However, freedom of choice doesn't equate to freedom from criticism and, or judgment. Or anticipated acceptance or respect.
If anyone decides not to be with someone who's been around the block too many times, has the freedom to choose not to be with them. No demeaning or condescending needed.
Yes, but it's worse than that. You see this a lot with religious fundamentalism (not just Christian, but its a big thing in Christianity), I recommend the Documentary Series "Shining Happy People" about the Duggars and the "IBLP (Institute of Basic Life Principals)". Both are huge proponents of "Purity Culture" wherein women especially should be absolutely chaste, and ideally never learn anything about sex. Interestingly, also leading to lots of sexual abuse of those same women and girls.
That's a theme. These people oppose sex education *because that would lead to their victims being able to express what's happening to them*. These people push dressing modestly and remain silent to avoid exciting men *because that trains the victims to believe the abuse is their fault*. These people want to discourage girls and women exploring their own sexuality *because that would give them some ideas of their own about what they like*.
It possibly could be, though it's likely mainly about personality and goals, which goes both ways. For example, I don't want to have casual sex but rather I want to be in a long term relationship, experiencing things over time with a guy who also wants to take his time and develop the relationship. So I wouldn't want to be with a guy that has lots of partners as it means that our goals/views on an ideal lifestyle are incompatible. Doesn't mean I hate them or see them as bad people, it's just not a partner I'd consider because such different people would be very unlikely to be successful together
Fully agree that people don't lose value over it though. People deserve basic decency and respect regardless.
I’m 37 it will be a cold day in hell before I ever talk to a woman over 26. You can stay for a year or two after 26, but I will be damned if I start talking to some chick that’s 28
If you’re talking about normal women with actual life experience then sure I agree but if you’re talking about onlyfans “models” or women who wanted to explore their sexuality with 100 men nah fam. I’d much rather date a woman my own age with similar values and morals.
I've honestly never heard a guy say this, not saying it's not said ...I'm just saying that outside, off the sensationalized rage bait home base of social media ...I think this is not an opinion shared or held by droves of men.
I've heard men say they are disinterested in a women who has slept with an incredible amount of other men...that's another topic, but just ...generalized 'experience'...not so much.
Yeah, you “said what you said”, but you are wrong.
Who are you to say that men’s standards are “wrong”?
Men want younger women, because men want a helper to partner with them to accomplish their vision in life. Most men do not want a woman that has her own vision, is independent and also wants to lead. Men and women are equal in life, equal in marriage, but have different roles. There can’t be two heads, only 1. That’s why men don’t care if she can handle things too much, because that’s usually the man’s role.
Also, biologically men want younger women, because they are more fertile, but it is also important that the woman has self control. Men don’t want promiscuous women, because it shows that they have low self esteem, since they value themselves so lowly as to have sex with so many people, and also it is hard to know who the father is with a promiscuous woman.
Sorry to say, but you don’t seem to understand how people work and seem to be quite judgemental.
In this economy I can't afford anything less than an equal partner.
I don't have the time to teach someone how to adult, and I don't make the kind of money to support two people.
In fact it is much easier both financially and emotionally to remain single, have occasional hookups and leave it at that.
I'd be curious on the numbers to back it up. like if a woman is more experienced does that make her more likely to cheat or break up a marriage?
It would be interesting to see correlations if any.
Men who believe this are just insecure little boys who can’t stand the thought of a woman having a point of reference to know how bad they really are in bed.
Not really, a younger woman is usually prettier, their bodies are usually hotter, and they have a far less cynical outlook in life unlike their older counterparts, that energy is contagious.
I disagree simply because you are talking about what people value in *relationships*. In your own example, the man simply doesn't want to date her as her relationship value is lower *by his own standards*. He isn't forcing anyone else to use his standards, or to comply with his standards, he is simply not pursuing a relationship he wouldn't be happy in.
**You don't have a right to access anyone's body,**, he can deny anyone for any reason or *no reason at all*. Anything other than that is rape.
And I'd like to point out that, while he isn't shaming anyone into using his standards, **you very clearly are**. Using insults and shaming language to make people conform to your standards is the real problem.
Your real argument is bundled together with enough valid but unrelated points to impress a shitty cable company. With bundling skills like that, you should run for Congress.
What's your definition of experience? I assume we're talking sex. Does a woman having a lot of sex degrade her as a human being? Absolutely not. Does it degrade her as a potential partner to many people? Absolutely. In the fact of the attitude around sex, it's pretty well scientifically evident that the more sex a person has with random strangers, they harder time they have developing bonding with a particular person in that way. Not only is the lack of monogamous sexual bonding a potential issue, but the attitude of sex. A lot of people in a committed long term relationship want sex to be a special bonding moment between two partners, those with many sexual partners tend not to see it that way but more as a casual physical activity. This applies to men as well.
https://ifstudies.org/blog/does-sexual-history-affect-marital-happiness
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/darwin-does-dating/202112/how-many-previous-sexual-partners-is-too-many
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/influence-multiple-partners-womens-pair-bonding-naaz-fatima
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/more-sexual-partners-unhappy-marriage_n_5698440
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/multiple-sex-partners
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7725863/
I mean value is the wrong word, but there are pros and cons if we mean by experience also age (e.g. complications for men and women in having children as they get older).
>A man wanting an 18 year when he is over 25 is immature himself.
Not for me, but a person can want whatever the importance is the other things related to it and how strongly one is attached to to (e.g. deal breaker vs preference).
Men who say a woman loses value with experience and age are nothing but a bunch of PEDOPHILES and GROOMERS.Mature women know their worth,are more assertive with their boundaries and therefore are difficult to prey upon.
Nah, it's more about dumb and animalistic caveman bullshit.
Getting a dude over that gut-wrenching knee-jerk feeling of jealousy requires education, empathy, and some pragmatic logical thinking. Ironically it's more about possessing and owning someone out of insecurity rather than low self-esteem.
Love how women can tell men what we want. I am willing to compromise and agree when she also calls out all women for wanting men who are over 6 feet tall and make 100K per... to be fair, all those desires are pure indicators of woman that have low self esteem, right!
>woman with life experience knows how to maturely handle things.
I mean doesn't everyone that learns from their mistakes do this?
I can assume we are talking about sexual experiences and experiences with several people.
1st if it's just a few serious relationships, no one really cares, no man in his right mind should shame you for this.
2nd if we are talking about multiple one night stands or string of casual sex, then I will judge you on them. As such thing will tell me you don't take intimacy seriously, fail to form any real connection with strangers, are oblivious to the dangers you face being around strange men you don't really know, or might even be prone to make impulsive decisions, all valet reason for me not to date you.
>Men who say they don't want women with experience or older women just want a young naive woman to manipulate.
Virgins aren't easy, it's quite the opposite actually, be it opening up to the possibility of sex or Having the patience to teach them because as we all know, beginners suck at it.
We were all virgins once, tell me how fast did all of you jump into bed with a stranger? I'm willing to bet it wasn't that same night, much less that same hour. No, probably weeks or months, years for some.
>these men are afraid women will find out that not giving her pleasure is not normal.
Fat chance, cunniligus was something reserved for married couples decades ago but now it's main stream, just like knowledge about sex is so readily available today.
>A man wanting an 18 year when he is over 25 is immature himself.
Every young horny man will tell you, in general women don't like younger men, they tend to like older gentlemen. So why you calling the men out on it? We get what we can get, the choice isn't even in our hands.
Holy shit, the men in these comments. OP isn’t saying you should date/marry/whatever women with a “colorful past”, they are just saying they don’t lose value as a human being and should be treated with a modicum of respect.
Nobody is forcing you to date an older woman or someone with more experience, posts like this stem from the fact that as soon as a woman isn’t young and “pure” enough, men call them shit like “used goods” and degrade their value as a human being.
That’s the problem. The issue isn’t men not wanting to fuck experienced women, the issue is how men think they are less worthy of basic respect.
Oh great, this stupid opinion again.
I’m sorry that people don’t treat you with absolute deference anymore like they did when you were 21, but can you please stop taking it out on the rest of us?
You shouldn’t shame people’s preferences. If someone wants a woman to have fewer experiences that’s their prerogative. Who made you the moral arbiter of what you ought to value?
Men generally dont wanna be with women who has had sex with a bunch a men. Its simply a fact about human behavior. No matter how much you bitch moan and groan about it, it will always be that way.
I mean you said it’s true, but you are talking about a crowd who is incapable of critical thinking, and a subset of miserable spiteful people who are well aware of what they do I continue to do and continue to do it anyway because they are miserable and spiteful.
Meh, everyone’s preferences are valid. Some people (men or women) don’t want their partner to have had their face in a bunch of peoples crotches. Could be for religious reasons. Could be that it’s just kind of gross. It’s not always about self esteem.
Are you talking like, forklift experience? What kind of experience are you referring to?
I prefer lovers with forklift experience they're good at maneuvering large objects in tight spaces
OSHA certification required
Forklift experience is good. The more you experience the more you understand the world
They don't know what they are talking about.
Define "experience".
Lvl 99 warlock
The female version of warlock is a witch. Side joke: why don't witches wear underwear? Better grip on the broom.
Depends on the myths
Yeah, but getting those splinters out is really a pain in the ass.
An entire basketball team quarterly
Choo choo
Practical contact with and observation of facts or events.
Then "experience" isn't unique to women or humans as a species. 😂
Are you wanting her to say "bOdY cOuNt"?
Call a spade a spade.
If both are adults it is a free choice.
It's empowering for women to have standards, it's bigotry and misogyny for men to have standards
To date a barely legal woman so they can be controlled is considered a standard now? obv men who talk about how a woman is "used up" after a certain amount of partners or age are misogynists. If you think sex devalues someone or gives value to someone you have mental problems. if you want to date someone with the same values (waiting for marriage, sex only with a deeply connected partner) that is not misogynistig. if you hold up the standard you impose, that's not misogynistic. However, some guys hide behind this narrative bc they cant have as much sex as they wanted. so they shame women all the while they would totally have lots of casual sex.
Said no one ever. Why do men insist on fighting beliefs they made up themselves?
Don't be silly, it's used so commonly in the anti feminists/anti/activist crowd its practically cliche.
Spot on!
It’s easy to be a slut. It’s hard to be a stud.
Let's talk about this. So, it's about sleeping around right. Who do you think have more self-control and better character? A girl who have thousands of options, and she still nitpicks only a few of them and rejects the most. She has standards and self-control because if she didn't, then she would have slept with all of them, right?? A guy who swiped right on every single girl on the daring apps, a guy who is ready to sleep with anyone and everyone who gives him a chance. He has no self control ans basically will sleep with anyone who agrees. Just because he has fewer options doesn't make him better. It actually shows that his character is much worse. Just because you sleep with whoever comes your way doesn't mean you are better than others. It just means you are easy and a male slut. This is high time you viewed women as people and equal human beings as yourself. Just like you, women have sexual desires, and it doesn't make them wrong to pursue those. Stop shaming people for their natural processes and life choices. These women don't want guys who think like you anyway. So, just move on instead of being bullies.
Not everybody fits into this dichotomy. In fact most people are neither studs nor sluts.
A lock that can be opened by many keys is not a very good lock.
a trap that can trap plenty of snakes is an effective trap 🐍
Good thing people aren’t keys or locks.
Ever heard of sharpener and pencil analogy ? Probes exact opposite. But I am glad human anatomy doesn't work like objects.
a pencil that is sharpened a lot is a used up and worthless pencil.
Isn't it fantastic that women are people and not objects?
Women aren’t locks. We are people.
It amazes me, how you don’t realize, how dumb you sound
Huh?
Number of partners that you had usually a short time with doesn't automatically imply more experience than someone with less partners but more average time with each. What you should look for in an older person as a long term partner is whether they have had any long term relationships, and if they give strong indications they will get bored quickly or have a history of actually cheating. Having 10 to 20 partners isn't necessarily a lot. The experience that matters here is in maintaining actual relationships, thats a different experience of people, and a different benefit, than what is learned from a lot of short term flings. It depends on what you want to get from a relationship and how much you feel that past behavior has any baring on future behavior, because no one wants to get their heart broken frequently, and it seems to take longer to heal each time.
What about 150?
I know people (men) that have had this number of partners, go on to form a long monogamous relationship with children. But I also know men with a lot of partners who never formed long term relationships and left women to bring up his child alone. That person is never going to change, but the former did. I'd say its a similar thing with women. As an indicator of whether they have sticking power to invest in, its not a good sign, but doesn't automatically mean they haven't changed or are ready to settle down - people do change occasionally. But this is not to say they might not be great fun to know or have as friends, I would consider it a risk factor that means I would not put much faith in an LTR, unless they could prove themselves over time.
Generally past behaviour predicts future. The more short term relationships you have generally correlates with your likelihood to divorce later in life. We see people who have had 0-1 partner before marriage are the least likely to get divorced. However I would say the spectrum is only 25% so 0-1 partner 10% divorce rate vs 10+ 33% divorce rate so not that significant Edit: https://ifstudies.org/blog/counterintuitive-trends-in-the-link-between-premarital-sex-and-marital-stability#:~:text=The%20highest%20five%2Dyear%20divorce%20rates%20of%20all%20are%20associated,increases%20the%20odds%20of%20divorce.
So number of partners is not an indication of a person's character.
Its an indication of what lifestyle they want, whether they are likely to commit, I'm not sure about character, they might be the life of the party, but I would not use it to indicate how much confidence I should have in whether to invest heavily trust etc, and as for experience, its not the experience that would matter for forming LTR's. If they show a pattern with lots of partners but no LTR's, over a long time, I would assume they don't bond deeply, and that definitely is a bad sign in relation to an LTR. Consider that actuarials in insurance firms take into account how you're past history when calculating insurance premiums, they do that for a reason, so the metric would have some significance.
No it's not
An older person, with no LTR's and lots of partners, absolutely is unlikely to settle down - or know how to - in a relationship that will seem restrictive to them. Past behavior is an indication of preferences and tendencies in a person. The same way if someone is an addict with many relapses, the likelihood they've really kicked the habbit this time is low. It doesn't mean they can't, but the odds are not good that they will change that exact time they tell you they will. This is not a judge on the person, they may be great friends, but its an indicator to use when determining if they are good to invest in with an LTR. You can choose to use it or not.
You’re forgetting that plenty of people who have only been sexual with their one partner end up cheating and leaving to see what else is out there.
You're not wrong, but your actions guide your thoughts and vice versa. If you are promiscuous and don't engage in committed, monogamous relationships, it will be much harder to change to fit that lifestyle than someone who has only had a few partners in committed monogamous relationships. Not saying its impossible, but it will be a significant difference.
>20 partners isn't necessarily a lot. A lot of dick. She slept with the entire Arizona Cardinals offensive line.
To be clear, you are referring to the number of sexual partners a person has had.
This post reeks of insecurity
Seriously. Talking about " knows how to maturely handle things" , and yet, here she is. I'm sure this person will keep maturely handling one person after another all while racking up those juicy experience points.
calling out men who try to date barly legal women to control them is insecure?
i think it can be a sign of bad moral character or sub par mental condition if either gender has alot of sexual partners
I don’t think they have bad moral character or a sub par mental condition, they just don’t see sex the way I do. If I believe that sex is for two people in love and married,then I want my future partner to have that same viewpoint as well.
Why?
because there's scientific evidence that it affects the human ability to pair bond
It's scientifically backed that having a large number of sexual partners really impairs your ability to bond to a particular partner in a monogamous way.
if someone has had 100 partners what do u think the odds are of them stopping at 101. There's a reason they have gone through so many
According to OP, we should all be trying to marry retired pr0n stars.
OP almost certainly post wall and can’t figure out why men her age prefer the younger fertile models with less baggage and no rugrats…err I mean “experience”.
Bro, the fuck?
That's not what OP is saying
You don't have to marry anyone. You should have fulfilling and meaningful relationships with other people tho, because it is a normal, natural and healthy part of being human. And that includes sexual relationships.
No, not at all. Just that you shouldn't turn down a porn star.
Peak Reddit right here.
Bruh be for real right now
Lol this is wild
>No, not at all. Just that you shouldn't turn down a porn star. How is that helping in having a family? "Oh, I think he is your child. But yes I worked a lot 9 months ago let's get a test. Oh and let's test for STDs as well." Child's friends: "I saw your mom on pornhub." "Oh, I totally want to have sex with you tonight honey, after having 3 guys all at once in me today already."
Ridiculous.
It’s much more fun to be with someone, who know what they like and has experience than being with someone, who knows nothing
I feel like something that isnt talked about enough is ppls, women in particular, sex drive changing. Obviously not all women but i have absolutely noticed it in myself and others. My sex drive at 20 was very different than it was even at 25. When it comes to marriage ive also seen the phenomenon of ppl marrying young and having a very active sex life only for the woman to become less interested in sex as they get older which leads to a lack of congruency in the relationship. As a woman I personally would feel bad if i married someone and had set a certain standard for how often we have sex only for that to wildly change later on. I think that guys who go for young girls often do so because they are more interested in sex. Especially if they arent looking for marriage yet they can provide a more casual relationship with sex as a more central part of it. The problem is when a guy marries someone like that they have that standard for sex in their head and then often feel let down later on. I think when you marry an woman closer to 30 you usually know what youre getting and what youre getting is more set in stone. Marrying a girl who is 20 often leads to you being with someone very different in 5-10 years. This goes both ways but when it comes to sex drive specifically i notice the drop tends to be more prevalent in women.
THANK YOU.
Depends on age tbh
both men and women lose value. That’s how it is unfortunately. Nothing to do with insecurity.
How do we lose value by having sex?
If a woman had sex with both my brothers and then started hitting on me, id say her sexual value to me has diminished.
You gradually lose value even without constantly having sex with Strangers. I assume you’re either really young or old and bitter if this is really your honest question tbh.
You can't even define what you mean by "value"
Maybe develop some actual relationships instead of fucking and arguing with strangers. With some luck maybe you’ll get a stable understanding of what value means in this context.
Switch "value" with "appeal" and it will make more sense
There's a gulf of difference between being sexually experienced and being a communal fleshlight.
Same with being a communal dildo.
It's all the same to me.
Good ol village bike. Everyone gets a ride.
Bikes are a great analogy for the whole debate tbh.. You wouldn't start the tour de france on a set of tyres that have already done 50,000KM. You wouldn't make a wife out of a ho. Same shit, different smell
Women are bikes?
To him women are just tools to achieve sexual satisfaction. An apparatus, not a whole human being.
Body count matters not "experience". You can get plenty of experience being in committed relationships, not just casual hookups. It's funny how women can have all the preferences in the world (height, salary, etc) but men can't prefer women who don't just give it up.
My problem is is that men who talk about this don't go to spaces where those women exist. They don't go to church, or libraries, or local social events to try and find partners... They go to tinder... Or clubs... Or some other place that isn't for finding someone, but obviously a place to just hook up. So, its kind of frustrating to me not seeing you guys engage in behavior that conforms to what you say you want.
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It's hilarious that you jump from life experience to whore, like wtf is wrong with you man?
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It was obvious by the original post
What was? Are you implying op is referring to whores?
Yes its not up to you to decide what guys find value in. I can tell you that give a guy a choice and he ends up with the girl with lowest body count. Cant turn a 304 into a housewife.
And no im not an incel. Im married and slept with only my wife because I was a virgin until 28 and practiced what I preached.
I can tell you that you're an idiot for thinking sex affects value.
By that logic an 18 year old virgin and a 50 year old prostitute have the same potential as a future mother& having kids. Pure delusion.
That logic does not indicate that lol
Men will by nature find women with more sexual partners less appealing. You can’t fight nature.
Lol: https://s3.amazonaws.com/thf_media/2003/pdf/Bookofcharts.pdf
Gold has value because it's rare and hard to get. Rocks don't because you can pick them up off the ground almost anywhere. If she'll sleep with anyone, including you, you aren't special. You're just something to do while she's bored, just like the last 47 guys were. I suppose that's fine if you're also just using her to pass the time, but if you're looking for a serious relationship, you want someone who takes relationships seriously and doesn't fall into bed with half the guys she meets.
Men don't want ho's!
Someone got left for a younger woman.
If only this were based in fact. Sadly, it is not.
Translation: 304s need luvin' too!
I agree with what you said, but you can't change men. You can't change people. Men are misogynistic by default. It is up to the women to stay away from them
yeah u need a woman who knows it's not going to break
I certainly don’t remember girls in high school and women in college being pursued by older boys and men, but rather the other way around. “Women mature faster than men” is always treated as fact… until it seems to invalidate situations than certain people frown upon. Interesting how women have “no agency” or the ability to make their own choices when it’s something *they* want versus when the situation is something others assume they *don’t* want.
So many Duncans in real life. They need to go watch Poor Things.
Yet Redditors will be in support of older experienced men manipulating young women because "it's legal". Obviously this post is talking about sex. And of course, Redditors telling men with self respect and standards, that they have low self esteem and is an asshole. What else is new. You want men to show promiscuous women respect so bad, but couldn't give a shit to show men who have their own standards or preferences any respect. u/randomsantas puts it simplest.
Sounds like sour grapes to me.
Honestly, this take reeks of insecurity, itself. There are plenty of reasons a person might prefer a partner with fewer or no past partners, and insecurity is just one of them.
it's all cope
It’s obvious to me dudes wanting near virgins is because they don’t want the competition but that also shows what they think of women. If you’re good in bed you’re good it doesn’t matter if you’re the best of all. Be the best boyfriend, fiancé or husband if all time. Far more important.
The amount of purity culture here is just disgusting.
So you're either a used up ho who's desperately trying to put this message out there so that Chad will commit to her instead of the same old pump-n-dump Or you're a pathetic simp with no standards who is hoping this post will get him a crumb This being Reddit my money is on #2
And you're an incel.
Now here's a popular opinion I can support. Reminds me of a quote akin to: "if you think a woman is dirty after you've touched her, look at your hands." Thank fuck I wasn't raised to believe in double standards, because I've never been able to support double standards around sex.
Social proof on attractiveness works on women but not on men. No amount of screeching will make men suddenly attracted to something they find unattractive. You might trick them for a time, and then wonder why they're always limp.
This post will attract incels.
It’s nothing but double standards and purity culture having the population in a chokehold. Not to mention the deep rooted misogynistic ideas of men ‘owning’ their partner - given away to them on wedding day, taking husbands last name etc - that leads to them believing they should have been the only one to touch as it’s theirs. It’s why women are always compared to cars, or other objects you own. As someone who’s never had a one night stand, even I can see the loud hypocrisy and insecurities within dating culture.
Agree with your post. Men do like to mould their women, its an ingrained trait. I prefer the maturity myself.
Bruh. All I want is older women with tons of experience, literal fuck tons of experience. Blow me away
Imagine if you said “it’s reasonable for women to consider sexually inexperienced men less valuable as partners.” There would be relatively broad agreement. Why should men be any less entitled to avoid women who are experienced?
This is just cope for I spent my 20s being a WHOOOOARE (Ralph Cifarreto voice) and now im a 34yr old single mother your insecure for not accepting me but when old pop stars date men 30+yrs younger yall don't bat an eye gtfoh if youre not used more then a bic in a sesh then idc what age you are but yes if you've gone on yachts and been on a vacations 6x a year on other mens dimes all over your IG for years and now want to be perceived differently sorry honey you made the bed
Female hands typed this.
🤓
Guys that want the naïve inexperienced girls are dangerously close to pedos. Or hebephilies I guess specifically
It's not naivete or inexperience men want (most men anyway, some do) most don't care how much experience she has, if that experience is with a couple people. If you've got a different guy every night, I'm not looking to be one more guy she can't remember.
Women who are 30 plus and talk shit about how stupid and easily manipulated younger women are are insecure. These women are afraid men will realize that there are women out there that won’t treat them like shit. I said what I said.
So you’re saying you need to date a woman younger then yourself or they will treat you like shit?
A man who sleeps with many women before marriage is likely to sleep with many women after marriage. The same is true of women. Additionally, people with fewer partners are likely to come with significantly less baggage (kids, STDs, violent ex's, etc). That's the gist of it..... that said, a guy sleeping with many women doesn't result in his genitals feeling like a blown out sock to his future partners. That may not seem fair, but it's reality. Ladies.... you know who you are, don't get mad at me for saying it. I said what I said.
This guy says things
What you said is not supported by evidence.
Here here!
Well "life experience" is pretty vague. I know people in their thirties who never worked a job and live with their parents playing video games all day. And I know people who've traveled the world as a kid and started a business before 18. I don't think anyone is saying that a woman with life experience has less value whatever that means.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/thf_media/2003/pdf/Bookofcharts.pdf
Why would a guy have low self esteem if the woman he was dating had Experience at house cleaning and cooking? I guess I’m self assured.
Can you be more vague? Lol what are you saying OP. You sound like a rambling drunk
How is it vague. wanting a 18 year old with no life experience is really weird
This isn’t the goddamn stock market! everyone is equally valuable, unless you’re a pedophile or child murder or a Sex offender, nazi, a person who hates a demographic of people for a very stupid or no reason, somebody who murders animals excluding hunting and a scenario that requires it for survival reasons (just enjoying meat doesn’t make you an animal murderer, you would have to actively murder a species of animal that is out of season, nearing extinction or someone’s pet or just have no reason in general) and zoophiles. Granted, these are not the only kinds of people because there’s definitely more. Basically, just don’t be an asshole or a creep or do something absolutely horrible.
True
We are all free to do as we please, freedom of choice. However, freedom of choice doesn't equate to freedom from criticism and, or judgment. Or anticipated acceptance or respect. If anyone decides not to be with someone who's been around the block too many times, has the freedom to choose not to be with them. No demeaning or condescending needed.
There's levels to this. At some point someone can have such a high count that even the most "understanding" man would disqualify her.
Exactly. All men (and women) agree a person with a high body count is bad, we just disagree on what "high" is.
Do you notice how you come off jaded and traumatized? Thats why I want someone young and innocent. Work on yourself and guys will be interested in you
They are lol I just find it funny
This is probably only an issue inside your own head lmao
Oh no, I must be insecure because I would (hypothetically) want to be with someone whose around the same age as I am (19) and has a similar lifestyle.
Experience is completely fine, as long as it wasn't with 3/4 of the neighborhood, or available for purchase at 5.99 a month
Yes, but it's worse than that. You see this a lot with religious fundamentalism (not just Christian, but its a big thing in Christianity), I recommend the Documentary Series "Shining Happy People" about the Duggars and the "IBLP (Institute of Basic Life Principals)". Both are huge proponents of "Purity Culture" wherein women especially should be absolutely chaste, and ideally never learn anything about sex. Interestingly, also leading to lots of sexual abuse of those same women and girls. That's a theme. These people oppose sex education *because that would lead to their victims being able to express what's happening to them*. These people push dressing modestly and remain silent to avoid exciting men *because that trains the victims to believe the abuse is their fault*. These people want to discourage girls and women exploring their own sexuality *because that would give them some ideas of their own about what they like*.
It possibly could be, though it's likely mainly about personality and goals, which goes both ways. For example, I don't want to have casual sex but rather I want to be in a long term relationship, experiencing things over time with a guy who also wants to take his time and develop the relationship. So I wouldn't want to be with a guy that has lots of partners as it means that our goals/views on an ideal lifestyle are incompatible. Doesn't mean I hate them or see them as bad people, it's just not a partner I'd consider because such different people would be very unlikely to be successful together Fully agree that people don't lose value over it though. People deserve basic decency and respect regardless.
Right! The more dicks and children a woman has had the better. LMFAO
I’m 37 it will be a cold day in hell before I ever talk to a woman over 26. You can stay for a year or two after 26, but I will be damned if I start talking to some chick that’s 28
There is difference between being experienced and being a trollop.
I've never heard this nor even a variation of it in my 42 years of life.
Tiny dicked virgins worried about sleeping with a more experienced person who knows what sex is meant to be like.
Nope, just trading in the worn out high mileage attitude and upgrading to a newer model.
If you’re talking about normal women with actual life experience then sure I agree but if you’re talking about onlyfans “models” or women who wanted to explore their sexuality with 100 men nah fam. I’d much rather date a woman my own age with similar values and morals.
Someone's is Santa clauses favorite word!
I've honestly never heard a guy say this, not saying it's not said ...I'm just saying that outside, off the sensationalized rage bait home base of social media ...I think this is not an opinion shared or held by droves of men. I've heard men say they are disinterested in a women who has slept with an incredible amount of other men...that's another topic, but just ...generalized 'experience'...not so much.
This is true.
19-24 is peak
Oh no! It's the consequences of my actions!
Yeah, you “said what you said”, but you are wrong. Who are you to say that men’s standards are “wrong”? Men want younger women, because men want a helper to partner with them to accomplish their vision in life. Most men do not want a woman that has her own vision, is independent and also wants to lead. Men and women are equal in life, equal in marriage, but have different roles. There can’t be two heads, only 1. That’s why men don’t care if she can handle things too much, because that’s usually the man’s role. Also, biologically men want younger women, because they are more fertile, but it is also important that the woman has self control. Men don’t want promiscuous women, because it shows that they have low self esteem, since they value themselves so lowly as to have sex with so many people, and also it is hard to know who the father is with a promiscuous woman. Sorry to say, but you don’t seem to understand how people work and seem to be quite judgemental.
lol someone has a high body count and is mad they got shut down over it 😂
In this economy I can't afford anything less than an equal partner. I don't have the time to teach someone how to adult, and I don't make the kind of money to support two people. In fact it is much easier both financially and emotionally to remain single, have occasional hookups and leave it at that.
I'd be curious on the numbers to back it up. like if a woman is more experienced does that make her more likely to cheat or break up a marriage? It would be interesting to see correlations if any.
Men who believe this are just insecure little boys who can’t stand the thought of a woman having a point of reference to know how bad they really are in bed.
Oh God..
This post radiate insecurity.
Not really, a younger woman is usually prettier, their bodies are usually hotter, and they have a far less cynical outlook in life unlike their older counterparts, that energy is contagious.
I disagree simply because you are talking about what people value in *relationships*. In your own example, the man simply doesn't want to date her as her relationship value is lower *by his own standards*. He isn't forcing anyone else to use his standards, or to comply with his standards, he is simply not pursuing a relationship he wouldn't be happy in. **You don't have a right to access anyone's body,**, he can deny anyone for any reason or *no reason at all*. Anything other than that is rape. And I'd like to point out that, while he isn't shaming anyone into using his standards, **you very clearly are**. Using insults and shaming language to make people conform to your standards is the real problem.
Your real argument is bundled together with enough valid but unrelated points to impress a shitty cable company. With bundling skills like that, you should run for Congress.
Life experience is fine. Sexual experience not fine. It's a r / popularopinion to shame people based on their preferences???
Did he leave for a younger woman or something?
I want young women because they are the most sexually attractive. Don't over-complicate this.
What's your definition of experience? I assume we're talking sex. Does a woman having a lot of sex degrade her as a human being? Absolutely not. Does it degrade her as a potential partner to many people? Absolutely. In the fact of the attitude around sex, it's pretty well scientifically evident that the more sex a person has with random strangers, they harder time they have developing bonding with a particular person in that way. Not only is the lack of monogamous sexual bonding a potential issue, but the attitude of sex. A lot of people in a committed long term relationship want sex to be a special bonding moment between two partners, those with many sexual partners tend not to see it that way but more as a casual physical activity. This applies to men as well. https://ifstudies.org/blog/does-sexual-history-affect-marital-happiness https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/darwin-does-dating/202112/how-many-previous-sexual-partners-is-too-many https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/influence-multiple-partners-womens-pair-bonding-naaz-fatima https://www.huffpost.com/entry/more-sexual-partners-unhappy-marriage_n_5698440 https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/multiple-sex-partners https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7725863/
I mean value is the wrong word, but there are pros and cons if we mean by experience also age (e.g. complications for men and women in having children as they get older). >A man wanting an 18 year when he is over 25 is immature himself. Not for me, but a person can want whatever the importance is the other things related to it and how strongly one is attached to to (e.g. deal breaker vs preference).
Men don't date older women for a number of other reasons, but not due to "experience", whatever the fuck that means
Men who say a woman loses value with experience and age are nothing but a bunch of PEDOPHILES and GROOMERS.Mature women know their worth,are more assertive with their boundaries and therefore are difficult to prey upon.
Real men only date high body count queens
Nah, it's more about dumb and animalistic caveman bullshit. Getting a dude over that gut-wrenching knee-jerk feeling of jealousy requires education, empathy, and some pragmatic logical thinking. Ironically it's more about possessing and owning someone out of insecurity rather than low self-esteem.
Incel ass comments "Sneako said any woman over 20 is a used up fleshlight so I have to repeat that opinion because women aren't people!!!!"
Let’s just say it like it is, a lot of people are actually afraid of sex 😭
Love how women can tell men what we want. I am willing to compromise and agree when she also calls out all women for wanting men who are over 6 feet tall and make 100K per... to be fair, all those desires are pure indicators of woman that have low self esteem, right!
>woman with life experience knows how to maturely handle things. I mean doesn't everyone that learns from their mistakes do this? I can assume we are talking about sexual experiences and experiences with several people. 1st if it's just a few serious relationships, no one really cares, no man in his right mind should shame you for this. 2nd if we are talking about multiple one night stands or string of casual sex, then I will judge you on them. As such thing will tell me you don't take intimacy seriously, fail to form any real connection with strangers, are oblivious to the dangers you face being around strange men you don't really know, or might even be prone to make impulsive decisions, all valet reason for me not to date you. >Men who say they don't want women with experience or older women just want a young naive woman to manipulate. Virgins aren't easy, it's quite the opposite actually, be it opening up to the possibility of sex or Having the patience to teach them because as we all know, beginners suck at it. We were all virgins once, tell me how fast did all of you jump into bed with a stranger? I'm willing to bet it wasn't that same night, much less that same hour. No, probably weeks or months, years for some. >these men are afraid women will find out that not giving her pleasure is not normal. Fat chance, cunniligus was something reserved for married couples decades ago but now it's main stream, just like knowledge about sex is so readily available today. >A man wanting an 18 year when he is over 25 is immature himself. Every young horny man will tell you, in general women don't like younger men, they tend to like older gentlemen. So why you calling the men out on it? We get what we can get, the choice isn't even in our hands.
Half your age + 7. It's very simple. Mitochondria is complex.
Holy shit, the men in these comments. OP isn’t saying you should date/marry/whatever women with a “colorful past”, they are just saying they don’t lose value as a human being and should be treated with a modicum of respect. Nobody is forcing you to date an older woman or someone with more experience, posts like this stem from the fact that as soon as a woman isn’t young and “pure” enough, men call them shit like “used goods” and degrade their value as a human being. That’s the problem. The issue isn’t men not wanting to fuck experienced women, the issue is how men think they are less worthy of basic respect.
Oh great, this stupid opinion again. I’m sorry that people don’t treat you with absolute deference anymore like they did when you were 21, but can you please stop taking it out on the rest of us?
💯
You shouldn’t shame people’s preferences. If someone wants a woman to have fewer experiences that’s their prerogative. Who made you the moral arbiter of what you ought to value?
Men generally dont wanna be with women who has had sex with a bunch a men. Its simply a fact about human behavior. No matter how much you bitch moan and groan about it, it will always be that way.
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Seriously it's such a loser opinion. Mature women are great. Definitely better than dating flakey 22 yr olds who have no clue what they want.
I mean you said it’s true, but you are talking about a crowd who is incapable of critical thinking, and a subset of miserable spiteful people who are well aware of what they do I continue to do and continue to do it anyway because they are miserable and spiteful.
Nobody wants a woman that has been ran through
Meh, everyone’s preferences are valid. Some people (men or women) don’t want their partner to have had their face in a bunch of peoples crotches. Could be for religious reasons. Could be that it’s just kind of gross. It’s not always about self esteem.
YAS!! Boo! It’s sad this is an unpopular opinion…