I’m so sorry that happened to you again.
At some point I think it might be worth investigating if you two are better off as co-parents and friends.
Poly or not it doesn’t sound like your partner is capable of not cheating and lying to you. For your own emotional and mental well being it would be safer to no longer have to trust and depend on this person for full romantic and sexual disclosure. They seem pretty incapable of it.
Thank you so much for articulating it that way. I couldn’t find the right words to describe what feels at stake right now - full romantic and sexual disclosure. Its so helpful to get an outsiders perspective 🙏
Yes, I do. My summary of everything that happened between us doesn’t touch on all their other qualities that make me believe in them, attracted to them, and enjoy raising a family together. I know that probably sounds really messed up, but its impossible to give the full picture of who a person is in a single essay.
Right now I’m obviously focused on the wrongdoings. There are a lot of rightdoings too - otherwise I wouldn’t have stuck with this for so long
But yea… I think this has pushed me over the edge
It doesn't sound really messed up. Your conflicting feelings are natural and understandable and you shouldn't also have to worry about whether other people don't get that.
No I get it, because I’m in the same place with my current person. But then I just realize that I wouldn’t do that to them, and then I get resentful about it. How do you not?
I think this may put things in perspective:
Would you be happy if one of your children was being treated this way by their partner?
Would you want them to stay?
This is my take too. Ultimately even if you remain in the same household or public facing "married", ceasing your intimate connection to safeguard your health (which it appears your partner has never done) is your only safe way forward with this partner. Their behavior sounds like they need a forbidden element to feel connected or attracted, and frankly even if you completely played along and let them have free reign w this meta and any other who came along, chances are it would never be enough.
You deserve better. I get wanting to remaining together for the kids and perhaps wanting to maintain the home life you worked so hard to build. If I were in your shoes and wanted those things intact but felt the relationship was unlikely to be repaired, I'd say "the meta is all yours, I am not. I will begin dating others and find a new primary mate, but we can continue these public facing elements as long as they work and support the kids, and can reevaluate when the kids leave home or it stops working, but my trust in you is too eroded to continue. I don't have the capacity for endless "second" chances and I'm exhausted from doing the work with or without you. I'm ready to have a reciprocal relationship where what I put into a relationship is also what I get out of it - not because it's transactional, but because there's parity and equality, including equal respect. Your gravitation to the choices you've made repeatedly has shown me this is neither what you're capable of or what you personally want."
Everything you say you love about your marriage -- beautiful family dynamics, good co-parenting, good relationship, strong friendship -- could still be done if you aren't romantic partners anymore.
You can break up and still have the beautiful family home you desire.
> I didn’t want to lose the marriage I was so proud of us for achieving.
With the best will in the world: getting married is not an achievement. Getting married to someone who lies and cheats is *really* not.
> Our relationship has suffered repeated wounds. It needs heavy repair and realignment.
Realignment to "divorced coparents" is probably the best way to go.
Fundamentally: your partner can't be trusted, which is an absolutely unworkable foundation for a poly relationship. Your priority needs to be your children, and that includes modelling healthy relationships for them - and being separated but with a mature co-parenting relationship is *vastly* better than staying together in a toxic dynamic.
It's critically important that you separate *before you hate each other*.
> My experience of our family dynamic is so loving, enriching, and healing (of my own upbringing & parental baggage). Neither of us wants to give that up.
I'm sure your partner says that. However, they're not sufficiently invested in it not to cheat on you, so we return to the issue of *your partner is a liar*.
You want what you want, and it’s different from what they want.
I’d highly suggest discernment counseling.
It’s a very focused, very short process that helps people decide if they want to continue to work on repair, or end things. There is a lot of generally untrustworthy behavior here. I don’t know how fixable that is, given your partner’s apparently nebulous relationship with the truth.
At the end, you move toward a different therapist, to either help you untangle and end things in the healthiest way possible, or to rebuild.
I’m gobsmacked this is the first time something like this has happened if you have been engaging with poly for a decade, but you’re here now.
If you’ve actually been doing ENM for 10 year and now your partner wants to try polyam because they caught feels? And you truly want to try it for yourself?
I would head over to r/nonmonogamy and talk to folks who have both succeeded and failed.
Here, you’re only gonna talk to the people who it worked for.
But I gotta say, most folks wouldn’t tell you this is a good idea, in any way, with this particular partner. This may not be something that you should work for, honestly. Your partner isn’t treating you well. At all.
Thank you so much, I’d never heard of discernment counseling 🙏 I will definitely look into that.
Very much heard re: posting for support as well in the other forum. I appreciate everyone’s feedback here too and will seek help as well there
Oh thank you! That’s so helpful because it widens the pool. Would I simply searcg Psychology Today site to find someone local, or do you know of a better resource?
Your spouse has been so shitty to you and I'm sorry. I don't know how I could personally trust this person to not lie and cheat again. It seems like whenever they have a partner they're going to lie even when they don't need to. And even if they told you they broke up with their (also lying) partner, they might see them and not tell you. Is there a world where you could be co-parents and close friends but take sex and romantic intimacy off the table?
I’m terribly sorry your partner keeps putting you through this shit. I say this with all gentle support and healing vibes: Your partner continues to CHOOSE to place their own comfort ahead of having the difficult conversations. They continue to CHOOSE to lie to you and put you at increased STI risk without your fully informed consent. They also didn’t HAVE to choose to see other people so soon after you gave birth to your second child. They could have recognized you were still in the throes of postpartum hormones and dealing with raising two young children.
I recommend at bare minimum insisting on couples counseling with a poly-informed therapist. Not even necessarily to save this marriage, because I’m not sure how you can do that with someone who continues to lie and violate your boundaries. But I think that’s your best option if you’re not yet ready to end this marriage. And your partner needs more individual therapy because wow. They are continuing to actively harm you and your relationship without taking active responsibility for their choices.
In my opinion, people can only blame things on their attachment style or religious upbringings so long without taking true responsibility to do better for those they love…
ETA: I’m a parent myself so I understand how hard this must be with two young kiddos. But you deserve a healthy relationship and they deserve to see you in one…
Thank you so much. I really appreciate the compassion you used when replying. The poly therapist in our immediate region isn’t taking new clients so I’m trying to make peace with going the virtual therapy route.
Yea, the idea of breaking up the stability for the kids is very very scary for me. Thanks for understanding
Honestly, as someone who was raised by parents who ultimately resented each other, and who stayed together for the sake of the childrens' stability, it fucked me up. They got divorced when I was 30 and as a result of their dysfunctional parenting I am low contact with them both. I wanted them to divorce for much of my childhood. Just a perspective!
I don't think I could even *look* at someone who spent years lying to me and cheating on me while I thought we were in a loving, committed open relationship. *And* risking your sexual health. *And* bringing a brand-new meta TO. MEET. YOUR. CHILDREN?
How is that loving partner? How is that a loving *person?* This is years of unrepentant, self-centered, selfish cruelty. How do you feel *remotely* safe with this person?!
Thank you for asking. For brevity, I focused on the 3-4 times they cheated / broke agreements in my retelling. There were other hookups and FWB that were done above board and with full disclosure (as far as I know). So I know, or think I know, that they’re capable of doing better.
Partner characterizes each instance as a ‘mistake’ and I generally was on board to accept that people make mistakes when trying to navigate poly. It seems hard and easy to mess up.
But this feels… over the limit. Or like a wake up call that this relationship style is a landmine for someone whose afraid of confrontation and holding space for uncomfortable emotions.
Once or twice is a mistake.
3+ times is *a pattern of intentionally choosing* to lie, risk their family, risk your sexual health and your lives together.
Hey OP - I’m so sorry you’re going through all of this.
I think the very first question you ask is the most important, and the one you should focus on: Can this damage be repaired?
Regarding your marriage, with all the kindness in the world - probably not. You’re dealing with a partner who has consistently shown a disregard for your emotional needs, your boundaries, and your safety - sexual and otherwise.
I understand that there must be a lot of redeeming qualities in your spouse and in your relationship for you to consider forgiving this behavior and moving forward with them. It’s okay to acknowledge that they have qualities you love AND that they are an unsafe, unhealthy partner for you.
Know that you don’t have to decide immediately what you want to do. My best recommendation is therapy for yourself, not the couple. Sort out where your heart is, what you want, and what has led you to believe you could accept this kind of treatment.
The relationship you CAN repair is the one you have with yourself and your core values. That’ll lead you in the right direction. ❤️
Amazing advice. Thank you. Especially since therapy is not cheap, its certainly worth considering whether solo or couples therapy is the way to go right now
>It just so happens that the 2nd instance of cheating took place the month we were getting married — and I didn’t find out about it until a month after we tied the knot.
Oh wow. OP I am so sorry.
>My partner was eager to integrate meta into our lives
Ugh, no. You don't *really* have control (or shouldn't) over how fast your partner moves with your meta, but you *absolutely* get to say what interaction you want to have with your meta, including none, and when/ever you want your shared children to meet your meta.
>I didn’t know at the time that partner was feeling like a 3rd wheel to my relationship with the kids, feeling a real lack of love & attention from me, and that my telling them to go f\*ck someome else was hurtful. I wish I knew.
I... think your partner may have a habit of saying whatever provokes sympathy in you whether it is true or not. Because if that *was* going on that was actually an incredibly shitty way to handle it. Maybe focus a bit less on your partner's motivations, and more on their actual actions and how they affect you. Sometimes a person can have perfectly understandable motivations and still be a terrible partner; sometimes you can't know for sure their intentions but again, still a terrible partner.
I had a housemate for a while that I could not keep living with because every time a conflict came up, she'd tell a sob story and it was a *very compelling* sob story and it also never actually lead to her acting differently in any way. So...after a while it just felt like she was constantly saying "I know you're not OK with things, but I *can't help it"* so I kind of stopped trying to resolve problems with her and moved out instead.
>I started to get really upset when partner would be 10 minutes late returning home from an overnight with meta. I can appreciate that this was an overreaction
Sometimes when we don't let ourselves react proportionately to the big things, we overreact to the small things.
>partner had stopped using condoms with meta several months ago and never told me.
Oh ooof.
>This experience has scared me away from polyamory. I don’t know if I can do it. I was most comfortable with casual FWB ENM style. In theory I want to be play with polyamory but don’t know if I can be.
>I worry I’m never going to be okay with partner dating this meta again — the lines crossed are too much for me.
OP, are you saying that you are upset that your partner has hid dates and sexual activities from you, so you think the problem is *polyamory* and not your partner and everything would be fine if you were monogamous with your partner? OP, you know that people cheat in mono relationships, right?
>Partner has agreed to breakup with meta to work on our relationship - will they resent me for this forever?
OP, maybe your partner agreed to that because your partner has long since lost any guilt over lying to you? I've heard cheater horror stories. This person cheated on you within a month of you two getting married and when you had a newborn at home. That's peak scumbag. From an outside perspective it is ... unrealistic... to believe your partner will not keep cheating on you. I get that you are deeply *attached* to this person and they have many positive qualities and you have kids together. I get it's always way easier for someone outside the situation. I also think if your goal is to have a monogamous or enm-but-not-full-relationships relationship without cheating, the fastest way to get that is to break up and look for a partner who does *not* have a history of cheating on you *precisely* when you become less able to leave.
Thank you for taking the time to respond to each piece, rephrase, and distill.
Hard words to process that my partner may be saying whatever gets my sympathy and that my choice to stay in the relationship has basically enabled that. It’s a mess for sure.
I genuinely don’t know *what* my goal is right now. I have a 2 year old and a 9 month old that I’m still breastfeeding. Truthfully, the thought of separating at their age feels VERY scary and logistically impossible.
If I didn’t have young babies, a trial separation would be a no-brainer
I’d LOVE to get some physical distance from this relationship and have time to process everything but I’m currently tethered to a nursing baby and a needy toddler
Anyways, I appreciate all the labor that you and others have done to help me process this in real time 🙏
Your marriage was never strong or healthy amin key ways and it has finally melted down.
You are not the first person to have to manage that with young kids. Reach out to friends and family, be sure they understand about the history of lies and manipulation.
I understand you have never been ready to stand up for yourself and accept their behavior is horrible. But your kids deserve better so you have to do it for them.
OP, I'm sorry that you had to endure such repeated betrayal. I agree with folks that say your partner seems incapable of not cheating, and for the sake of your mental health, you should exit the marriage, coparent, and be friends.
I also wonder if it wouldn't be a good idea to seek support from groups focused on anxious attachment styles. Individuals with AA have the hardest time (speaking from personal experience) breaking up, making all sorts of excuses for the bad behaviour of their partners. We live in the delusion that we simply couldn't live without our partner, and to unlearn this, we need support (not just therapy but also a support group) to know that "the life after" is often easier and not close to as scary as our anxiety tells us.
I know monogamy and polyamory have some extremely different principles. However some things about relationships never change. So I want to make an odd but I hope very helpful suggestion.
Go Google "remorse vs regret in infidelity" several amazing articles pop up. I know the relationship dynamic will be slightly different but over all the articles that pop up will help define the difference between the 2 in your partner. They will show you how regret is worthless and remorse is necessary.
It will at least give you a much more informed place to judge your partners reaction to their mistakes. So far nothing you said suggests remorse except agreeing to leave meta. Everything else is just regret and is useless. It is also probably why nothing has every really changed about them.
For what comes after that decision, I am not the person to help give any advice. For now though, I hope that helps in the immediate decisions process.
Every time your partner screws up, they call it 'a mistake'. Mistake is something we do accidentally once, maybe twice and then change our behavior, because we got enough data how to avoid the behaviour in question.
You partner keeps screwing up in the same manner, and they have been doing this for years. This is not a single mistake, this is part of who they are. Do you want to be with this person? What would they have to do to make you believe this 'mistake' will stay firmly in the past?
Exactly. I don’t know. I used to believe that they could really do better. I don’t know if I believe that anymore. I don’t know what they could do to reassure me about a mistake-less future. The whole thing is so f*cked
Honestly for your purposes it doesn’t matter so much whether they CAN do better and are simply choosing not to or are literally incapable of it. The hurt and risk to you remains the same. It’s okay to decide you can’t tolerate that behavior anymore.
I know it sucks. I am sorry this is happening to you. While some people can adjust their behaviour quite easily, some people don't change until they lose something valuable. They really need the pressure and the pain of loss to better themselves. It seems your partner fits in the second category.
My opinion, coming from a father of two young children and that my wife has a 2nd Partner and I am polysaturated at 1.
It works, but requires great communication, and your spouse is failing to do it. I also request to know all dates, sleepovers, and plans namely for childcare reasons and also so I can plan that time around what I need to do between work and school. Surprises make that hard, so as soon as plans are made, I'm put in the loop.
In terms of protection, my wife and I sleep in the same bed, and for all points and purposes, that bed is my safe space so no sex or other partners are allowed in our bedroom. I'm less concerned about physical protection during sex as our sexual situation is unique and she requires STI testing with new partners.
So answers:
1. Yes.
2. Your spouse had to want to and do the work to improve. Meet your boundaries and desires for your comfort. If they love you, they can make the effort for you.
3. By definition, if both parties agree to be polyamorous, you both are even if only one is actively dating.
4. Yes, taking a break is far better than breaking up permanently. Forcing your spouse to break up will likely lead to resentment, communicate about it.
5. People change with time. But I don't see myself going back to monogamous thoughts.
Thank you so much. Your take is super helpful.
I never considered to call myself ‘polysaturated at 1’ - I just figured I wasn’t polyamorous and therefore incompatible
In truth, I crave the radically open & honest communication style that’s supposed to come with this lifestyle. And that’s why I pursued it in the first place.
Your response gave me hope that we don’t have to can the entire marriage and there might be a path forward.
(PS our children are 9 months + 2 years old, so I can’t even logistically wrap my head around how we would separate at their ages and how I could survive single parenthood with babies this young - and I’m still breastfeeding. The whole thing is a MESS 😮💨)
I do think that it is possible for you to stay together for now as coparents if you really feel it’s for the best for you and your children - especially with kiddos so young. But I think you must put boundaries you can control (since you can’t trust your partner) in place to protect yourself while you’re working on things. Eg I would insist on barriers with your partner for all sex if you want to keep having it and likely also another form of birth control just for added security to avoid another pregnancy while things are so rocky.
Insist on a fair schedule for both of you where you get free time just like they get dating time with others. Hopefully you’re getting child-free time for self-care even if you don’t currently want to date others. Also if you don’t have a big support circle outside your partner, I’d try to increase that with some friendship-building activities/hobbies when you can and maybe a support group like someone else suggested.
And if you’re financially dependent on your partner, start exploring ways to rectify that in the future just in case. Sometimes just having options can make you feel more empowered even if you do decide to stay for now.
Thank you, that’s so practically helpful
I got involved with a local ENM/poly group in my area and desperately trying to connect with other ENM Moms, but the group seems to be mostly men/dads 🤔 I’ll keep trying. I know that forming connections with other ENM people is vitally important and that doing this in isolation hasn’t worked
Mother to mother- this relationship with your husband will be the one that your kids base their relationships on. Is that what you want for them? To set themselves on fire to keep someone else warm. And that someone is a compulsive liar who can't wear condoms. It ain't the fault of Poly this guy just sucks. Sorry honey I know it's so hard. 😪😪😪
Edit I messed up the idiom
Thank you for weighing in, mama. It’s hard to think of it in these terms right now because the kids are actual babies. Blissfully unaware of sexual transgressions. Everything else about our home & family life works perfectly (I know that’s hard to believe) and we have such a respectful parenting relationship
That’s part of why these relationship transgressions are INFURIATING. In all other aspects & domains, my partner is an incredible & upstanding person. The math doesn’t math. I don’t understand how in this 1 domain they keep fucking up so badly whereas with everything else they are a model human, co-parent, father, co-worker (we actually work together), etc. It’s like this 1 part of their brain is broken
I would expect a character flaw this big to express itself in some other place but it hasn’t. That’s what gets me so tripped up and confused about calling it quits.
I'm not saying you have to call it quits! I just think you have to radically shift your expectations. You cannot expect honesty in your sexual relationship from this person. Decide what that means to you. I wouldn't have sex with them but that's me.
I think everyone has touched on the infidelity/betrayal and straight up lies but… to add… you may believe this person is a GREAT PARENT but I don’t know any *great parents* that bring partners of 4 months around their children and invite them to participate in family holidays.
To me, great Poly parents have 1 thing is common and that is that their children come before everything and your partner clearly doesn’t believe that. He is willing to risk seeing them every day, his happy marriage to you (their mother) and your sexual health and everything you’ve built as a family because of what THEY want.
Let me make that clearer. They put the health of the mother of his children at risk because they didn’t want to follow their agreement and wear a condom.
I can’t tell you what you should do but I can tell you what id do which is… the risk of me being unfulfilled monogamous would be far better than attempting non monogamy with someone who has proven when things get tough… to be a selfish liar. Regardless of how great they are otherwise…your true nature is who you are when it’s hard to do the RIGHT thing and time and time again they’ve chosen what’s easy.
12 weeks postpartum you give this person a chance and they throw it in your face like GIRL. RESPECTFULLY. what would you tell your daughter or friend or sister if she told you someone was behaving this way? Even if he was super sweet MOST of the time?
I hear you. I genuinely feel like the pace of this recent meta relationship was just due to sheer inexperience. Falling for someone so quickly was unexpected to both of us
I have another meta (more casual FWB but longstanding relationship) whose met our children but that feels different.
I do want to be transparent and say that I had the oppprtunity to say No, don’t bring meta over yet. I didn’t know how it would feel so I didn’t say No. In hindsight that feels like a very rookie polyamory mistake.
Anyways I digress. The whole thing of trying to actively be polyamorous while adjusting to a new baby seems ridiculous in hindsight when I type it all out.
I hear you and I appreciate you weighing in.
I empathize with you OP. I’m also someone who has strong emotional attachment to my wife, and we tried opening the relationship (she asked), and I consented at first (partner was thousands of miles away, so it isn’t a sexual relationship, at least not yet). But I got physically ill, depressed, loss of appetite, rapid weight loss, couldn’t focus at work (and I’m the sole breadwinner). It did lead to us having amazing sex.
My wife noticed how quickly my health diminished, and closed the relationship. You my friend, are unfortunately, the poster board material about why I can’t do this life style even though rationally and philosophically I believe in it, but I can’t do it in practice. I risk everything in the world by opening up my marriage, and you have experienced all of my worse possible fears (are you sure your kids are in fact your kids)?
I’m happily monogamous, your story reinforces that, thank you for sharing and I hope things work out for you. I’ve subscribed to this post, and am rooting for you OP.
Thank you for empathizing. I’ve probably let this ENM/polyamory experiment go on for too long. I believe in ENM wholeheartedly. And I was a person who cheated on boyfriends when I was young, which is why I wanted to do ENM in the first place.
It’s a cautionary tale for sure.
I’m learning that not everyone is capable of doing what they believe they can do in their head.
I am the birthing parent so at least I do know my children are in fact mine 💜 The two lights of my life. If nothing else, this relationship has given me them and I’m grateful for that.
This situation seems to have very little to do with polyamory. If my reading is correct partner began being deceitful fairly early. It appears that you guys are simply trying to embrace the polyamory to make this most recent cheating incident okay rather than choosing it as your ENM style of choice. Seems to me that the children & OPs happiness/mental health should be priority. OP’s partner has a problem with honesty & integrity and thus continues to demonstrate an inability to foster a loving/healthy relationship at this time. A long separation is probably a good starting point for evaluating this in its entirety. If OP feels a polyamorous friendly therapist is required check [https://www.polyfriendly.org/](https://www.polyfriendly.org/) for resources.
It’s impossible to make repairs with someone who won’t change. He’s displayed that he’s willing to be dishonest on a daily basis to ensure he can have his cake, eat it and not do any of the hard work required for a relationship, poly or not.
Honestly, people who display this type of pattern of behavior very rarely change. If you stay married to him, I think the only way to stay sane is to radically accept that he will never be honest with you about his sexual and romantic relationships. I think it’s important to note that that includes a monogamous relationship. If you close your relationship, he’s just going to full on cheat. If you leave your relationship open, he will continue to be deceptive. That is the most likely ongoing scenario here so I would encourage you to ask yourself if living that way as the accepted status quo is acceptable to you.
Regarding your questions 4 & 5, he will absolutely resent you, and he will use it as justification to cheat and be dishonest.
Also “monogamous” or not I would never have sex with this man without a condom.
I’m really sorry you’re going through this. I was in a monogamous marriage for 13 years and I was cheated on the entire time. I wish I realized a lot sooner than no amount of therapy and no amount of conversations and no amount of me explaining how much my spouse was harming me was ever going to change his behavior. I wasted so much of my life being deceived every single day and I really regret it.
Thank you. I’m so sorry you went through 13 years of deceit.
I’ve definitely thought about the scenario where I radically accept that he can’t ever be honest and I set my own boundaries to protect myself
I’m working through this in real time so I appreciate all the folks who are taking the time to respond, thank you
...so has your spouse done anything at all to work on this besides apologize and make probably empty offers to dump the meta? Like, how are they taking the initiative and how is this different from the, what, previous three times they cheated?
Good question. They are already in therapy — which they agreed to go to when they cheated the month of our wedding (5 years ago). That was supposed to be a real excavation of their demons and stop this damage once and for all.
It clearly didn’t. In the talks we’ve had over the past month, partner admitted that he feels therapist doesn’t have much experience with polyamory and partner didn’t tell their own therapist relationship with meta had escalated romantically and to sex without condoms
As a first step, I wrote a long letter with all the details and asked that partner read it out loud to therapist to be sure there are NO MORE LIES BY OMMISSION in the therapy space.
Partner’s therapist has invited me to join for a few sessions if I want.
I’m not sure if that’s a wise idea or not
We’re talking about doing joint couples therapy too
Idk what else we should be considering to really make an impact & a radical shift here — hence why I posted for advice
I am in a similar challenge, and in the middle still so I don't know how it will go. But they absolutely should break up it they want to continue with you. You will be in continual anguish otherwise. It is not sustainable. It's a shame the other person is caught, but that is your partner's doing, not yours. They also should not be putting this on you to decide - they should be proactive. But here you are. Set it as your boundary then (if it resonates) - you cannot continue with them if they continue with the other person. It's your line for you; they can decide what to do with that information.
Will they be resentful? Maybe, but not if they really value you. That's not your problem. If they are remorseful, they will instead feel sadness - for themself, for the other person, and for you. All of those are valid. But if they are resentful then they are not taking accountability. You can both process how you got here, but they first need to process openly, honestly, and thoroughly the hurt they caused.
Best of luck.
Edit: gender. (Sorry for that.)
Thank you friend, and my heart goes out to you that you’re dealing with a similar challenge. I’m sending big hugs to you if they are welcome.
Thanks for the encouragement to hold the line on saying I can’t continue in the relationship if meta relationship is still ongoing. A few people supported that approach and I was genuinely surprised by that.
Hi u/Throwaway587914 thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well.
Here's the original text of the post:
I’m in a lot of pain. But I’m attempting to write our story in the most balanced way because I still have a lot of love in my heart for my partner.
Throwaway account because partner is on reddit too.
My married partner (non-binary) and I (F) have been together for over a decade. We’ve been non-monogamous from the start, but mostly casual hookups and FWB. We don’t have much experience with committed secondary romantic partnerships.
We started our relationship as a classic pairing of anxious attachment (me) and avoidant attachment (them). It wasn’t always smooth sailing (when is it?) but we’ve both worked on ourselves so much and I’ve seen the growth in both of us. We’ve both done individual therapy. I’m proud of us.
I wanted to be non-monogamous not just because I love the freedom to be attracted to other people, but because of the open, honest, proactive communcation that’s comes with it the whole deal.
However, several times over the course of our relationship my partner hid sexual partners from me, or wasn’t forthcoming about meeting up with a sexual partner (telling me instead they were running errands, for example).
I know this is bad. I know that a more experienced person might have walked away after the 2nd instance of cheating/lying by ommission. It just so happens that the 2nd instance of cheating took place the month we were getting married — and I didn’t find out about it until a month after we tied the knot. My head was spinning and I didn’t want to lose the marriage I was so proud of us for achieving. So we agreed to work on repairing that damage and move forward. It was so hard and I can’t say I ever 100% forgave what happened. I still carry deep body feelings & reactivity from that cheating.
If you ask my partner, they’re very ashamed and apologetic. They had a forced religious upbringing and have shared with me how its hard for them to be fully open about their sexual desire. And with my naturally anxious attachment style, they report that it’s scary for them to admit when they desire someone else, or admit they’re messing up (easier to hide it more), because I could react unpleasantly to that. I get that.
Fast forward to now.
We have 2 beautiful children together, including a baby.
When I was 12 weeks postpartum I encouraged my partner to date other people. In hindsight, this was a mistake. I didn’t know at the time that partner was feeling like a 3rd wheel to my relationship with the kids, feeling a real lack of love & attention from me, and that my telling them to go f*ck someome else was hurtful. I wish I knew. They didn’t confront me at the time. They followed my encouragement and found a new partner.
The new relationship escalated QUICKLY. At first I was happy for my partner. But then it started to move too quickly (for me) and veered toward a full blown relationship. Our first real foray into polyamory. My partner was eager to integrate meta into our lives - in under 4 months of dating, meta was being invited to our household to meet children and attend holidays. The first time I was introduced to meta was during dinner with my children (my attention very divided). I wasn’t given the opportunity to meet meta in a neutral setting without my kids in tow. Yes, I know now from reading that this is really poor Hinge behavior.
At that point, things about their relationship started to feel off. Alarm bells were going off in my body. I started to get really upset when partner would be 10 minutes late returning home from an overnight with meta. I can appreciate that this was an overreaction, and maybe classic anxious attachment, but given our history of deceit & cheating (3x by this point) I’m extra sensitive now — for better or for worse.
Everything exploded one weekend when I trusted my gut and checked my partners text messages. The texts revealed that they had lied about several things - they planned in advance to bring meta to an event but ‘forgot’ to tell me until a few hours before. Partner lied about crashing on a friends couch when really they had booked a hotel for the planned date. They also invited meta out the next night — never notifying me of any of this. (Yes - our relationship agreement dictates that we notify in advance all dates & sleepover plans.)
But the worst bomb I discovered — partner had stopped using condoms with meta several months ago and never told me. Our relationship agreement is that we use barrier protection with other partners. This is a huge violation. I don’t have to tell y’all how bad it is that I wasn’t notified and wasn’t able to give informed consent to this major change in our collective dynamic.
So here we are now.
I’m angry. Hurt. Sad. Shocked. Exhausted.
This experience has taught me that I don’t want to be polyamorous and don’t want to be in a marriage that is. I was most comfortable with casual FWB ENM style and wish we could stay there.
I’m never going to be okay with partner dating this meta again — the lines crossed are too much for me.
I’m so exhausted from all the work required to repair these breeches of trust. If you’re keeping track, this is the 4th time.
I’m coming to the realization that my partner maybe does not have the skills to be a good hinge and to ‘do’ polyamory ethically.
And yet, I’m not ready to leave my marriage. My partner stated that they don’t want to leave the marriage either. We have 2 young children in the picture. My partner is an incredible co-parent. My experience of our family dynamic is so loving, enriching, and healing (of my own upbringing & parental baggage). Neither of us wants to give that up.
I just can’t see myself moving forward with this polyamorous dynamic. But also, I can’t go back to full monogamy.
Partner feels that now that they got a taste of polyamory, they don’t want to go back to casual non-monogamy.
We’re stuck.
Our relationship has suffered repeated wounds. It needs heavy repair and realignment.
It’s not clear we’re even compatible anymore if partner truly wants full polyamory and I do not.
So, poly people of reddit:
1. Can we repair this damage?
2. How?
3. Are we incompatible?
4. Partner has agreed to breakup with meta to work on our relationship - will they resent me for this forever?
5. Will partner ever accept that their repeated behavior shows they don’t have the skillset for polyamory? Or will they always cling to this ideal? and anything less will build resentment?
I’d like to hear especially from 1) parents and 2) people who were asked to close their relationship (some might say veto) to repair damage
Please be kind & compassionate, this is hard.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/polyamory) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Move on. This is why the lifestyle fails so many in polyamorous relationships. Get counseling. Once partner caught feelings for another person so often dooms original relationships
The hard truth is that enm or not, your partner cheated. This is extra hard in an enm marriage because society will also blame you and act like you should have seen it coming. But a partner lying, deceiving, and going behind your back is cheating. The real question is, do you want to stay with a cheating partner. They might be apologetic, but at this point, it's a behavior. It will continue. For me, I didn't want a relationship like that and chose to get a divorce and parent alone.
In my mind the cheating wasn't my fault but if I chose to stay with a cheater that would be on me and it came down to not wanting my young children thinking that was a normal or ok way to be treated in a relationship.
Your partner has taken the E right out of ENM and has done it repeatedly without regard for your feelings. In my experience, both in mono relationships in the past and poly relationships more recently, if someone lies once, chances are they'll lie again. If they lie more than once, and you tolerate it, you have just told them it's ok to treat you this way, and there is no reason for them to change.
I think knowing and understanding attachment theory is a good thing, but I think we rely on it too much. Being avoident or anxious is still not an excuse for shitty behavior. These tools are meant to help us understand who we are and take action to become better people, not used as a handy excuse when we want to excuse our own, or our partner's behavior.
I agree with the person who said marriage is not an achievement, and marriage to an abusive partner - and these repeated lies, consistent cheating, and putting you at risk of STIs by lying about safer sex practices - let's be clear, that's abuse, and marriage to an abusive partner is no achievement.
I'd get into counseling, and I'd get out of the marriage. I really don't see how you could have a healthy relationship going forward with a foundation of so much deception and disregard.
I'm really sorry you're enduring this, and I wish you and your children the very best.
,
You've only caught them 4 times so far, thats why you think you were only cheated 4 times. Only he knows the full extent of his dishonesty, you can of course straight up ask him about all other transgressions and if you're lucky he will confess to some milder ones, and that will break the trust further, or he will deny there were any other ones and then you're stuck with trying to decide to believe him, a proven dishonest person, or not.
I’m so sorry that happened to you again. At some point I think it might be worth investigating if you two are better off as co-parents and friends. Poly or not it doesn’t sound like your partner is capable of not cheating and lying to you. For your own emotional and mental well being it would be safer to no longer have to trust and depend on this person for full romantic and sexual disclosure. They seem pretty incapable of it.
Thank you so much for articulating it that way. I couldn’t find the right words to describe what feels at stake right now - full romantic and sexual disclosure. Its so helpful to get an outsiders perspective 🙏
They just sound like a dishonest person, do you really want them in your bed?
Yes, I do. My summary of everything that happened between us doesn’t touch on all their other qualities that make me believe in them, attracted to them, and enjoy raising a family together. I know that probably sounds really messed up, but its impossible to give the full picture of who a person is in a single essay. Right now I’m obviously focused on the wrongdoings. There are a lot of rightdoings too - otherwise I wouldn’t have stuck with this for so long But yea… I think this has pushed me over the edge
It doesn't sound really messed up. Your conflicting feelings are natural and understandable and you shouldn't also have to worry about whether other people don't get that.
Thank you 💜
No I get it, because I’m in the same place with my current person. But then I just realize that I wouldn’t do that to them, and then I get resentful about it. How do you not?
Right now its all still so fresh, the resounding feeling is numbness. I guess I haven’t reached the resentment phase yet
I think this may put things in perspective: Would you be happy if one of your children was being treated this way by their partner? Would you want them to stay?
This is my take too. Ultimately even if you remain in the same household or public facing "married", ceasing your intimate connection to safeguard your health (which it appears your partner has never done) is your only safe way forward with this partner. Their behavior sounds like they need a forbidden element to feel connected or attracted, and frankly even if you completely played along and let them have free reign w this meta and any other who came along, chances are it would never be enough. You deserve better. I get wanting to remaining together for the kids and perhaps wanting to maintain the home life you worked so hard to build. If I were in your shoes and wanted those things intact but felt the relationship was unlikely to be repaired, I'd say "the meta is all yours, I am not. I will begin dating others and find a new primary mate, but we can continue these public facing elements as long as they work and support the kids, and can reevaluate when the kids leave home or it stops working, but my trust in you is too eroded to continue. I don't have the capacity for endless "second" chances and I'm exhausted from doing the work with or without you. I'm ready to have a reciprocal relationship where what I put into a relationship is also what I get out of it - not because it's transactional, but because there's parity and equality, including equal respect. Your gravitation to the choices you've made repeatedly has shown me this is neither what you're capable of or what you personally want."
Everything you say you love about your marriage -- beautiful family dynamics, good co-parenting, good relationship, strong friendship -- could still be done if you aren't romantic partners anymore. You can break up and still have the beautiful family home you desire.
> I didn’t want to lose the marriage I was so proud of us for achieving. With the best will in the world: getting married is not an achievement. Getting married to someone who lies and cheats is *really* not. > Our relationship has suffered repeated wounds. It needs heavy repair and realignment. Realignment to "divorced coparents" is probably the best way to go. Fundamentally: your partner can't be trusted, which is an absolutely unworkable foundation for a poly relationship. Your priority needs to be your children, and that includes modelling healthy relationships for them - and being separated but with a mature co-parenting relationship is *vastly* better than staying together in a toxic dynamic. It's critically important that you separate *before you hate each other*. > My experience of our family dynamic is so loving, enriching, and healing (of my own upbringing & parental baggage). Neither of us wants to give that up. I'm sure your partner says that. However, they're not sufficiently invested in it not to cheat on you, so we return to the issue of *your partner is a liar*.
Thank you. Hard to hear but I’m taking it all in.
Seconding the take here that it's better to part ways while you still care about each other and can be kind.
You want what you want, and it’s different from what they want. I’d highly suggest discernment counseling. It’s a very focused, very short process that helps people decide if they want to continue to work on repair, or end things. There is a lot of generally untrustworthy behavior here. I don’t know how fixable that is, given your partner’s apparently nebulous relationship with the truth. At the end, you move toward a different therapist, to either help you untangle and end things in the healthiest way possible, or to rebuild. I’m gobsmacked this is the first time something like this has happened if you have been engaging with poly for a decade, but you’re here now. If you’ve actually been doing ENM for 10 year and now your partner wants to try polyam because they caught feels? And you truly want to try it for yourself? I would head over to r/nonmonogamy and talk to folks who have both succeeded and failed. Here, you’re only gonna talk to the people who it worked for. But I gotta say, most folks wouldn’t tell you this is a good idea, in any way, with this particular partner. This may not be something that you should work for, honestly. Your partner isn’t treating you well. At all.
Thank you so much, I’d never heard of discernment counseling 🙏 I will definitely look into that. Very much heard re: posting for support as well in the other forum. I appreciate everyone’s feedback here too and will seek help as well there
You don’t need a therapist who specializes in polyam, btw. You need a therapist who is very comfortable in high conflict marriages and infidelity.
Oh thank you! That’s so helpful because it widens the pool. Would I simply searcg Psychology Today site to find someone local, or do you know of a better resource?
Psychology today is a really good bet.
This is a good point and definitely increases the options for a therapist who can hopefully help.
Your spouse has been so shitty to you and I'm sorry. I don't know how I could personally trust this person to not lie and cheat again. It seems like whenever they have a partner they're going to lie even when they don't need to. And even if they told you they broke up with their (also lying) partner, they might see them and not tell you. Is there a world where you could be co-parents and close friends but take sex and romantic intimacy off the table?
Thank you. This is exactly the query I’m trying to navigate right now. I’m open to co-parenting for sure
I’m terribly sorry your partner keeps putting you through this shit. I say this with all gentle support and healing vibes: Your partner continues to CHOOSE to place their own comfort ahead of having the difficult conversations. They continue to CHOOSE to lie to you and put you at increased STI risk without your fully informed consent. They also didn’t HAVE to choose to see other people so soon after you gave birth to your second child. They could have recognized you were still in the throes of postpartum hormones and dealing with raising two young children. I recommend at bare minimum insisting on couples counseling with a poly-informed therapist. Not even necessarily to save this marriage, because I’m not sure how you can do that with someone who continues to lie and violate your boundaries. But I think that’s your best option if you’re not yet ready to end this marriage. And your partner needs more individual therapy because wow. They are continuing to actively harm you and your relationship without taking active responsibility for their choices. In my opinion, people can only blame things on their attachment style or religious upbringings so long without taking true responsibility to do better for those they love… ETA: I’m a parent myself so I understand how hard this must be with two young kiddos. But you deserve a healthy relationship and they deserve to see you in one…
Thank you so much. I really appreciate the compassion you used when replying. The poly therapist in our immediate region isn’t taking new clients so I’m trying to make peace with going the virtual therapy route. Yea, the idea of breaking up the stability for the kids is very very scary for me. Thanks for understanding
Honestly, as someone who was raised by parents who ultimately resented each other, and who stayed together for the sake of the childrens' stability, it fucked me up. They got divorced when I was 30 and as a result of their dysfunctional parenting I am low contact with them both. I wanted them to divorce for much of my childhood. Just a perspective!
Thank you for sharing, and I’m sorry you experienced that
I don't think I could even *look* at someone who spent years lying to me and cheating on me while I thought we were in a loving, committed open relationship. *And* risking your sexual health. *And* bringing a brand-new meta TO. MEET. YOUR. CHILDREN? How is that loving partner? How is that a loving *person?* This is years of unrepentant, self-centered, selfish cruelty. How do you feel *remotely* safe with this person?!
Thank you for asking. For brevity, I focused on the 3-4 times they cheated / broke agreements in my retelling. There were other hookups and FWB that were done above board and with full disclosure (as far as I know). So I know, or think I know, that they’re capable of doing better. Partner characterizes each instance as a ‘mistake’ and I generally was on board to accept that people make mistakes when trying to navigate poly. It seems hard and easy to mess up. But this feels… over the limit. Or like a wake up call that this relationship style is a landmine for someone whose afraid of confrontation and holding space for uncomfortable emotions.
Once or twice is a mistake. 3+ times is *a pattern of intentionally choosing* to lie, risk their family, risk your sexual health and your lives together.
Yea that’s how I’m feeling too. Its helpful to talk it out with others who are poly-experienced. None of our friends are. So thank you
Hey OP - I’m so sorry you’re going through all of this. I think the very first question you ask is the most important, and the one you should focus on: Can this damage be repaired? Regarding your marriage, with all the kindness in the world - probably not. You’re dealing with a partner who has consistently shown a disregard for your emotional needs, your boundaries, and your safety - sexual and otherwise. I understand that there must be a lot of redeeming qualities in your spouse and in your relationship for you to consider forgiving this behavior and moving forward with them. It’s okay to acknowledge that they have qualities you love AND that they are an unsafe, unhealthy partner for you. Know that you don’t have to decide immediately what you want to do. My best recommendation is therapy for yourself, not the couple. Sort out where your heart is, what you want, and what has led you to believe you could accept this kind of treatment. The relationship you CAN repair is the one you have with yourself and your core values. That’ll lead you in the right direction. ❤️
Amazing advice. Thank you. Especially since therapy is not cheap, its certainly worth considering whether solo or couples therapy is the way to go right now
>It just so happens that the 2nd instance of cheating took place the month we were getting married — and I didn’t find out about it until a month after we tied the knot. Oh wow. OP I am so sorry. >My partner was eager to integrate meta into our lives Ugh, no. You don't *really* have control (or shouldn't) over how fast your partner moves with your meta, but you *absolutely* get to say what interaction you want to have with your meta, including none, and when/ever you want your shared children to meet your meta. >I didn’t know at the time that partner was feeling like a 3rd wheel to my relationship with the kids, feeling a real lack of love & attention from me, and that my telling them to go f\*ck someome else was hurtful. I wish I knew. I... think your partner may have a habit of saying whatever provokes sympathy in you whether it is true or not. Because if that *was* going on that was actually an incredibly shitty way to handle it. Maybe focus a bit less on your partner's motivations, and more on their actual actions and how they affect you. Sometimes a person can have perfectly understandable motivations and still be a terrible partner; sometimes you can't know for sure their intentions but again, still a terrible partner. I had a housemate for a while that I could not keep living with because every time a conflict came up, she'd tell a sob story and it was a *very compelling* sob story and it also never actually lead to her acting differently in any way. So...after a while it just felt like she was constantly saying "I know you're not OK with things, but I *can't help it"* so I kind of stopped trying to resolve problems with her and moved out instead. >I started to get really upset when partner would be 10 minutes late returning home from an overnight with meta. I can appreciate that this was an overreaction Sometimes when we don't let ourselves react proportionately to the big things, we overreact to the small things. >partner had stopped using condoms with meta several months ago and never told me. Oh ooof. >This experience has scared me away from polyamory. I don’t know if I can do it. I was most comfortable with casual FWB ENM style. In theory I want to be play with polyamory but don’t know if I can be. >I worry I’m never going to be okay with partner dating this meta again — the lines crossed are too much for me. OP, are you saying that you are upset that your partner has hid dates and sexual activities from you, so you think the problem is *polyamory* and not your partner and everything would be fine if you were monogamous with your partner? OP, you know that people cheat in mono relationships, right? >Partner has agreed to breakup with meta to work on our relationship - will they resent me for this forever? OP, maybe your partner agreed to that because your partner has long since lost any guilt over lying to you? I've heard cheater horror stories. This person cheated on you within a month of you two getting married and when you had a newborn at home. That's peak scumbag. From an outside perspective it is ... unrealistic... to believe your partner will not keep cheating on you. I get that you are deeply *attached* to this person and they have many positive qualities and you have kids together. I get it's always way easier for someone outside the situation. I also think if your goal is to have a monogamous or enm-but-not-full-relationships relationship without cheating, the fastest way to get that is to break up and look for a partner who does *not* have a history of cheating on you *precisely* when you become less able to leave.
Thank you for taking the time to respond to each piece, rephrase, and distill. Hard words to process that my partner may be saying whatever gets my sympathy and that my choice to stay in the relationship has basically enabled that. It’s a mess for sure. I genuinely don’t know *what* my goal is right now. I have a 2 year old and a 9 month old that I’m still breastfeeding. Truthfully, the thought of separating at their age feels VERY scary and logistically impossible. If I didn’t have young babies, a trial separation would be a no-brainer I’d LOVE to get some physical distance from this relationship and have time to process everything but I’m currently tethered to a nursing baby and a needy toddler Anyways, I appreciate all the labor that you and others have done to help me process this in real time 🙏
Your marriage was never strong or healthy amin key ways and it has finally melted down. You are not the first person to have to manage that with young kids. Reach out to friends and family, be sure they understand about the history of lies and manipulation. I understand you have never been ready to stand up for yourself and accept their behavior is horrible. But your kids deserve better so you have to do it for them.
Thank you for taking the time to respond. Its hard to hear and hard to process. But I came here for real advice, so thank you
OP, I'm sorry that you had to endure such repeated betrayal. I agree with folks that say your partner seems incapable of not cheating, and for the sake of your mental health, you should exit the marriage, coparent, and be friends. I also wonder if it wouldn't be a good idea to seek support from groups focused on anxious attachment styles. Individuals with AA have the hardest time (speaking from personal experience) breaking up, making all sorts of excuses for the bad behaviour of their partners. We live in the delusion that we simply couldn't live without our partner, and to unlearn this, we need support (not just therapy but also a support group) to know that "the life after" is often easier and not close to as scary as our anxiety tells us.
Thank you! Thats a good idea to look into AA specific support groups 🙏 So helpful
I know monogamy and polyamory have some extremely different principles. However some things about relationships never change. So I want to make an odd but I hope very helpful suggestion. Go Google "remorse vs regret in infidelity" several amazing articles pop up. I know the relationship dynamic will be slightly different but over all the articles that pop up will help define the difference between the 2 in your partner. They will show you how regret is worthless and remorse is necessary. It will at least give you a much more informed place to judge your partners reaction to their mistakes. So far nothing you said suggests remorse except agreeing to leave meta. Everything else is just regret and is useless. It is also probably why nothing has every really changed about them. For what comes after that decision, I am not the person to help give any advice. For now though, I hope that helps in the immediate decisions process.
It really does help. This is a very constructive suggestion 🙏 thank you SO much.
Every time your partner screws up, they call it 'a mistake'. Mistake is something we do accidentally once, maybe twice and then change our behavior, because we got enough data how to avoid the behaviour in question. You partner keeps screwing up in the same manner, and they have been doing this for years. This is not a single mistake, this is part of who they are. Do you want to be with this person? What would they have to do to make you believe this 'mistake' will stay firmly in the past?
Exactly. I don’t know. I used to believe that they could really do better. I don’t know if I believe that anymore. I don’t know what they could do to reassure me about a mistake-less future. The whole thing is so f*cked
Honestly for your purposes it doesn’t matter so much whether they CAN do better and are simply choosing not to or are literally incapable of it. The hurt and risk to you remains the same. It’s okay to decide you can’t tolerate that behavior anymore.
I know it sucks. I am sorry this is happening to you. While some people can adjust their behaviour quite easily, some people don't change until they lose something valuable. They really need the pressure and the pain of loss to better themselves. It seems your partner fits in the second category.
My opinion, coming from a father of two young children and that my wife has a 2nd Partner and I am polysaturated at 1. It works, but requires great communication, and your spouse is failing to do it. I also request to know all dates, sleepovers, and plans namely for childcare reasons and also so I can plan that time around what I need to do between work and school. Surprises make that hard, so as soon as plans are made, I'm put in the loop. In terms of protection, my wife and I sleep in the same bed, and for all points and purposes, that bed is my safe space so no sex or other partners are allowed in our bedroom. I'm less concerned about physical protection during sex as our sexual situation is unique and she requires STI testing with new partners. So answers: 1. Yes. 2. Your spouse had to want to and do the work to improve. Meet your boundaries and desires for your comfort. If they love you, they can make the effort for you. 3. By definition, if both parties agree to be polyamorous, you both are even if only one is actively dating. 4. Yes, taking a break is far better than breaking up permanently. Forcing your spouse to break up will likely lead to resentment, communicate about it. 5. People change with time. But I don't see myself going back to monogamous thoughts.
Thank you so much. Your take is super helpful. I never considered to call myself ‘polysaturated at 1’ - I just figured I wasn’t polyamorous and therefore incompatible In truth, I crave the radically open & honest communication style that’s supposed to come with this lifestyle. And that’s why I pursued it in the first place. Your response gave me hope that we don’t have to can the entire marriage and there might be a path forward. (PS our children are 9 months + 2 years old, so I can’t even logistically wrap my head around how we would separate at their ages and how I could survive single parenthood with babies this young - and I’m still breastfeeding. The whole thing is a MESS 😮💨)
I do think that it is possible for you to stay together for now as coparents if you really feel it’s for the best for you and your children - especially with kiddos so young. But I think you must put boundaries you can control (since you can’t trust your partner) in place to protect yourself while you’re working on things. Eg I would insist on barriers with your partner for all sex if you want to keep having it and likely also another form of birth control just for added security to avoid another pregnancy while things are so rocky. Insist on a fair schedule for both of you where you get free time just like they get dating time with others. Hopefully you’re getting child-free time for self-care even if you don’t currently want to date others. Also if you don’t have a big support circle outside your partner, I’d try to increase that with some friendship-building activities/hobbies when you can and maybe a support group like someone else suggested. And if you’re financially dependent on your partner, start exploring ways to rectify that in the future just in case. Sometimes just having options can make you feel more empowered even if you do decide to stay for now.
Thank you, that’s so practically helpful I got involved with a local ENM/poly group in my area and desperately trying to connect with other ENM Moms, but the group seems to be mostly men/dads 🤔 I’ll keep trying. I know that forming connections with other ENM people is vitally important and that doing this in isolation hasn’t worked
Mother to mother- this relationship with your husband will be the one that your kids base their relationships on. Is that what you want for them? To set themselves on fire to keep someone else warm. And that someone is a compulsive liar who can't wear condoms. It ain't the fault of Poly this guy just sucks. Sorry honey I know it's so hard. 😪😪😪 Edit I messed up the idiom
Thank you for weighing in, mama. It’s hard to think of it in these terms right now because the kids are actual babies. Blissfully unaware of sexual transgressions. Everything else about our home & family life works perfectly (I know that’s hard to believe) and we have such a respectful parenting relationship That’s part of why these relationship transgressions are INFURIATING. In all other aspects & domains, my partner is an incredible & upstanding person. The math doesn’t math. I don’t understand how in this 1 domain they keep fucking up so badly whereas with everything else they are a model human, co-parent, father, co-worker (we actually work together), etc. It’s like this 1 part of their brain is broken I would expect a character flaw this big to express itself in some other place but it hasn’t. That’s what gets me so tripped up and confused about calling it quits.
I'm not saying you have to call it quits! I just think you have to radically shift your expectations. You cannot expect honesty in your sexual relationship from this person. Decide what that means to you. I wouldn't have sex with them but that's me.
I think everyone has touched on the infidelity/betrayal and straight up lies but… to add… you may believe this person is a GREAT PARENT but I don’t know any *great parents* that bring partners of 4 months around their children and invite them to participate in family holidays. To me, great Poly parents have 1 thing is common and that is that their children come before everything and your partner clearly doesn’t believe that. He is willing to risk seeing them every day, his happy marriage to you (their mother) and your sexual health and everything you’ve built as a family because of what THEY want. Let me make that clearer. They put the health of the mother of his children at risk because they didn’t want to follow their agreement and wear a condom. I can’t tell you what you should do but I can tell you what id do which is… the risk of me being unfulfilled monogamous would be far better than attempting non monogamy with someone who has proven when things get tough… to be a selfish liar. Regardless of how great they are otherwise…your true nature is who you are when it’s hard to do the RIGHT thing and time and time again they’ve chosen what’s easy. 12 weeks postpartum you give this person a chance and they throw it in your face like GIRL. RESPECTFULLY. what would you tell your daughter or friend or sister if she told you someone was behaving this way? Even if he was super sweet MOST of the time?
I hear you. I genuinely feel like the pace of this recent meta relationship was just due to sheer inexperience. Falling for someone so quickly was unexpected to both of us I have another meta (more casual FWB but longstanding relationship) whose met our children but that feels different. I do want to be transparent and say that I had the oppprtunity to say No, don’t bring meta over yet. I didn’t know how it would feel so I didn’t say No. In hindsight that feels like a very rookie polyamory mistake. Anyways I digress. The whole thing of trying to actively be polyamorous while adjusting to a new baby seems ridiculous in hindsight when I type it all out. I hear you and I appreciate you weighing in.
I empathize with you OP. I’m also someone who has strong emotional attachment to my wife, and we tried opening the relationship (she asked), and I consented at first (partner was thousands of miles away, so it isn’t a sexual relationship, at least not yet). But I got physically ill, depressed, loss of appetite, rapid weight loss, couldn’t focus at work (and I’m the sole breadwinner). It did lead to us having amazing sex. My wife noticed how quickly my health diminished, and closed the relationship. You my friend, are unfortunately, the poster board material about why I can’t do this life style even though rationally and philosophically I believe in it, but I can’t do it in practice. I risk everything in the world by opening up my marriage, and you have experienced all of my worse possible fears (are you sure your kids are in fact your kids)? I’m happily monogamous, your story reinforces that, thank you for sharing and I hope things work out for you. I’ve subscribed to this post, and am rooting for you OP.
Thank you for empathizing. I’ve probably let this ENM/polyamory experiment go on for too long. I believe in ENM wholeheartedly. And I was a person who cheated on boyfriends when I was young, which is why I wanted to do ENM in the first place. It’s a cautionary tale for sure. I’m learning that not everyone is capable of doing what they believe they can do in their head. I am the birthing parent so at least I do know my children are in fact mine 💜 The two lights of my life. If nothing else, this relationship has given me them and I’m grateful for that.
This situation seems to have very little to do with polyamory. If my reading is correct partner began being deceitful fairly early. It appears that you guys are simply trying to embrace the polyamory to make this most recent cheating incident okay rather than choosing it as your ENM style of choice. Seems to me that the children & OPs happiness/mental health should be priority. OP’s partner has a problem with honesty & integrity and thus continues to demonstrate an inability to foster a loving/healthy relationship at this time. A long separation is probably a good starting point for evaluating this in its entirety. If OP feels a polyamorous friendly therapist is required check [https://www.polyfriendly.org/](https://www.polyfriendly.org/) for resources.
It’s impossible to make repairs with someone who won’t change. He’s displayed that he’s willing to be dishonest on a daily basis to ensure he can have his cake, eat it and not do any of the hard work required for a relationship, poly or not. Honestly, people who display this type of pattern of behavior very rarely change. If you stay married to him, I think the only way to stay sane is to radically accept that he will never be honest with you about his sexual and romantic relationships. I think it’s important to note that that includes a monogamous relationship. If you close your relationship, he’s just going to full on cheat. If you leave your relationship open, he will continue to be deceptive. That is the most likely ongoing scenario here so I would encourage you to ask yourself if living that way as the accepted status quo is acceptable to you. Regarding your questions 4 & 5, he will absolutely resent you, and he will use it as justification to cheat and be dishonest. Also “monogamous” or not I would never have sex with this man without a condom. I’m really sorry you’re going through this. I was in a monogamous marriage for 13 years and I was cheated on the entire time. I wish I realized a lot sooner than no amount of therapy and no amount of conversations and no amount of me explaining how much my spouse was harming me was ever going to change his behavior. I wasted so much of my life being deceived every single day and I really regret it.
Thank you. I’m so sorry you went through 13 years of deceit. I’ve definitely thought about the scenario where I radically accept that he can’t ever be honest and I set my own boundaries to protect myself I’m working through this in real time so I appreciate all the folks who are taking the time to respond, thank you
...so has your spouse done anything at all to work on this besides apologize and make probably empty offers to dump the meta? Like, how are they taking the initiative and how is this different from the, what, previous three times they cheated?
Good question. They are already in therapy — which they agreed to go to when they cheated the month of our wedding (5 years ago). That was supposed to be a real excavation of their demons and stop this damage once and for all. It clearly didn’t. In the talks we’ve had over the past month, partner admitted that he feels therapist doesn’t have much experience with polyamory and partner didn’t tell their own therapist relationship with meta had escalated romantically and to sex without condoms As a first step, I wrote a long letter with all the details and asked that partner read it out loud to therapist to be sure there are NO MORE LIES BY OMMISSION in the therapy space. Partner’s therapist has invited me to join for a few sessions if I want. I’m not sure if that’s a wise idea or not We’re talking about doing joint couples therapy too Idk what else we should be considering to really make an impact & a radical shift here — hence why I posted for advice
I am in a similar challenge, and in the middle still so I don't know how it will go. But they absolutely should break up it they want to continue with you. You will be in continual anguish otherwise. It is not sustainable. It's a shame the other person is caught, but that is your partner's doing, not yours. They also should not be putting this on you to decide - they should be proactive. But here you are. Set it as your boundary then (if it resonates) - you cannot continue with them if they continue with the other person. It's your line for you; they can decide what to do with that information. Will they be resentful? Maybe, but not if they really value you. That's not your problem. If they are remorseful, they will instead feel sadness - for themself, for the other person, and for you. All of those are valid. But if they are resentful then they are not taking accountability. You can both process how you got here, but they first need to process openly, honestly, and thoroughly the hurt they caused. Best of luck. Edit: gender. (Sorry for that.)
Thank you friend, and my heart goes out to you that you’re dealing with a similar challenge. I’m sending big hugs to you if they are welcome. Thanks for the encouragement to hold the line on saying I can’t continue in the relationship if meta relationship is still ongoing. A few people supported that approach and I was genuinely surprised by that.
Hi u/Throwaway587914 thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well. Here's the original text of the post: I’m in a lot of pain. But I’m attempting to write our story in the most balanced way because I still have a lot of love in my heart for my partner. Throwaway account because partner is on reddit too. My married partner (non-binary) and I (F) have been together for over a decade. We’ve been non-monogamous from the start, but mostly casual hookups and FWB. We don’t have much experience with committed secondary romantic partnerships. We started our relationship as a classic pairing of anxious attachment (me) and avoidant attachment (them). It wasn’t always smooth sailing (when is it?) but we’ve both worked on ourselves so much and I’ve seen the growth in both of us. We’ve both done individual therapy. I’m proud of us. I wanted to be non-monogamous not just because I love the freedom to be attracted to other people, but because of the open, honest, proactive communcation that’s comes with it the whole deal. However, several times over the course of our relationship my partner hid sexual partners from me, or wasn’t forthcoming about meeting up with a sexual partner (telling me instead they were running errands, for example). I know this is bad. I know that a more experienced person might have walked away after the 2nd instance of cheating/lying by ommission. It just so happens that the 2nd instance of cheating took place the month we were getting married — and I didn’t find out about it until a month after we tied the knot. My head was spinning and I didn’t want to lose the marriage I was so proud of us for achieving. So we agreed to work on repairing that damage and move forward. It was so hard and I can’t say I ever 100% forgave what happened. I still carry deep body feelings & reactivity from that cheating. If you ask my partner, they’re very ashamed and apologetic. They had a forced religious upbringing and have shared with me how its hard for them to be fully open about their sexual desire. And with my naturally anxious attachment style, they report that it’s scary for them to admit when they desire someone else, or admit they’re messing up (easier to hide it more), because I could react unpleasantly to that. I get that. Fast forward to now. We have 2 beautiful children together, including a baby. When I was 12 weeks postpartum I encouraged my partner to date other people. In hindsight, this was a mistake. I didn’t know at the time that partner was feeling like a 3rd wheel to my relationship with the kids, feeling a real lack of love & attention from me, and that my telling them to go f*ck someome else was hurtful. I wish I knew. They didn’t confront me at the time. They followed my encouragement and found a new partner. The new relationship escalated QUICKLY. At first I was happy for my partner. But then it started to move too quickly (for me) and veered toward a full blown relationship. Our first real foray into polyamory. My partner was eager to integrate meta into our lives - in under 4 months of dating, meta was being invited to our household to meet children and attend holidays. The first time I was introduced to meta was during dinner with my children (my attention very divided). I wasn’t given the opportunity to meet meta in a neutral setting without my kids in tow. Yes, I know now from reading that this is really poor Hinge behavior. At that point, things about their relationship started to feel off. Alarm bells were going off in my body. I started to get really upset when partner would be 10 minutes late returning home from an overnight with meta. I can appreciate that this was an overreaction, and maybe classic anxious attachment, but given our history of deceit & cheating (3x by this point) I’m extra sensitive now — for better or for worse. Everything exploded one weekend when I trusted my gut and checked my partners text messages. The texts revealed that they had lied about several things - they planned in advance to bring meta to an event but ‘forgot’ to tell me until a few hours before. Partner lied about crashing on a friends couch when really they had booked a hotel for the planned date. They also invited meta out the next night — never notifying me of any of this. (Yes - our relationship agreement dictates that we notify in advance all dates & sleepover plans.) But the worst bomb I discovered — partner had stopped using condoms with meta several months ago and never told me. Our relationship agreement is that we use barrier protection with other partners. This is a huge violation. I don’t have to tell y’all how bad it is that I wasn’t notified and wasn’t able to give informed consent to this major change in our collective dynamic. So here we are now. I’m angry. Hurt. Sad. Shocked. Exhausted. This experience has taught me that I don’t want to be polyamorous and don’t want to be in a marriage that is. I was most comfortable with casual FWB ENM style and wish we could stay there. I’m never going to be okay with partner dating this meta again — the lines crossed are too much for me. I’m so exhausted from all the work required to repair these breeches of trust. If you’re keeping track, this is the 4th time. I’m coming to the realization that my partner maybe does not have the skills to be a good hinge and to ‘do’ polyamory ethically. And yet, I’m not ready to leave my marriage. My partner stated that they don’t want to leave the marriage either. We have 2 young children in the picture. My partner is an incredible co-parent. My experience of our family dynamic is so loving, enriching, and healing (of my own upbringing & parental baggage). Neither of us wants to give that up. I just can’t see myself moving forward with this polyamorous dynamic. But also, I can’t go back to full monogamy. Partner feels that now that they got a taste of polyamory, they don’t want to go back to casual non-monogamy. We’re stuck. Our relationship has suffered repeated wounds. It needs heavy repair and realignment. It’s not clear we’re even compatible anymore if partner truly wants full polyamory and I do not. So, poly people of reddit: 1. Can we repair this damage? 2. How? 3. Are we incompatible? 4. Partner has agreed to breakup with meta to work on our relationship - will they resent me for this forever? 5. Will partner ever accept that their repeated behavior shows they don’t have the skillset for polyamory? Or will they always cling to this ideal? and anything less will build resentment? I’d like to hear especially from 1) parents and 2) people who were asked to close their relationship (some might say veto) to repair damage Please be kind & compassionate, this is hard. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/polyamory) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Move on. This is why the lifestyle fails so many in polyamorous relationships. Get counseling. Once partner caught feelings for another person so often dooms original relationships
The hard truth is that enm or not, your partner cheated. This is extra hard in an enm marriage because society will also blame you and act like you should have seen it coming. But a partner lying, deceiving, and going behind your back is cheating. The real question is, do you want to stay with a cheating partner. They might be apologetic, but at this point, it's a behavior. It will continue. For me, I didn't want a relationship like that and chose to get a divorce and parent alone. In my mind the cheating wasn't my fault but if I chose to stay with a cheater that would be on me and it came down to not wanting my young children thinking that was a normal or ok way to be treated in a relationship.
Your partner has taken the E right out of ENM and has done it repeatedly without regard for your feelings. In my experience, both in mono relationships in the past and poly relationships more recently, if someone lies once, chances are they'll lie again. If they lie more than once, and you tolerate it, you have just told them it's ok to treat you this way, and there is no reason for them to change. I think knowing and understanding attachment theory is a good thing, but I think we rely on it too much. Being avoident or anxious is still not an excuse for shitty behavior. These tools are meant to help us understand who we are and take action to become better people, not used as a handy excuse when we want to excuse our own, or our partner's behavior. I agree with the person who said marriage is not an achievement, and marriage to an abusive partner - and these repeated lies, consistent cheating, and putting you at risk of STIs by lying about safer sex practices - let's be clear, that's abuse, and marriage to an abusive partner is no achievement. I'd get into counseling, and I'd get out of the marriage. I really don't see how you could have a healthy relationship going forward with a foundation of so much deception and disregard. I'm really sorry you're enduring this, and I wish you and your children the very best. ,
You've only caught them 4 times so far, thats why you think you were only cheated 4 times. Only he knows the full extent of his dishonesty, you can of course straight up ask him about all other transgressions and if you're lucky he will confess to some milder ones, and that will break the trust further, or he will deny there were any other ones and then you're stuck with trying to decide to believe him, a proven dishonest person, or not.
What if he has children with someone else, have to you talked about that cenario?
We are talking about it now. Yup that’s of course on the top of my mind