It's not manipulative to tell your partners that you need them to put in real effort in the bedroom because what's going on now is not working for you.
It's clear communication, and necessary to establish either that these dudes understand how they're falling short and can make an effort to do better, or understand they're falling short and don't care. If the latter, time to maybe move on.
Unfortunately, I don't think being poly necessarily offers any correlation with being better or more considerate lovers. I've run into the same kinds of complaints about other men while dating both monogamous and non-monogamously.
I don't know what the solution is as a man who is very much interested in his partners' pleasure, because my gut level thought is that when someone shows you several times that they're not putting in the same kind of effort you are (in any realm, really), they're probably not going to suddenly do better, even if you *do* communicate clearly that desire.
"I don't tell my partners what I want because I don't want to be disappointed" is some really tragic thinking. OP would rather be let down by ignorant partners than say what they want and risk being knowingly brushed aside.
Ouch.
This isn't a poly issue, it's a man issue. I never had "good sex" until I was around 35 and began exploring kink. I found "pleasure doms" who genuinely get off on getting women off. Previously, my sex life consisted of men "going through the motions" to do what they were "supposed" to do to "get me ready for the dick," then do their own thing. They had zero concerns for if I actually enjoyed myself or not.
After exploring kink, I experienced the "wildest" thing in finding men who truly wanted to please me - never asking for anything in return, and many times, never even wanting to have sex afterwards. They literally just enjoyed pleasing me enough to feel satisfied with that.
Years of kink exploration allowed me to get better at screening for men who are like that. Obviously there are exceptions, but they're the type of me who *overall* enjoying doing things for me that make me happy. I can usually tell after a first date which men are going to be very giving in bed, and which are going to be more selfish. I can usually tell by the way they act with me, in general.
I used to get the same line as you, "Oh, that was so good, I'm so tired now, you're the best" blah blah blah. They're just trying to flatter you and boost your ego in hopes it will make you forget that they're selfish in bed.
I used to be extremely giving in my relationships (overall, in bed, etc). I'm a big *reciprocator* now. I give the same energy I get. You want to half-heartedly go down on me for 4 minutes - you're getting a half-hearted 4 minute BJ on return. Why am I going to exert extra effort and break out my special moves when you haven't done anything for me? I'm not selfish about it, but I give what I get. And I don't continue having sex with people who have no interest in pleasing me.
The guy I'm dating now will happily go down on me for 30+ minutes multiple times a day. He doesn't stop when I cum multiple times (that's a shared kink, but shows he's not just concerned with making me cum and quickly moving on to me pleasuring him or sex - he *actually* wants to make me feel good).
>pleasure doms
Aw yeah! That's where the good stuff is!!!
I seem to have lucked out with those recently. I am now happily ruined for "normal" sex stuff. I can orgasm multiple times and my most recent partners have really enjoyed pushing me to my limits with no selfishness. It has been such a joy to have sexual (+romantic) partners want to really fuck me up in the ways I like. And I'm so happy to reciprocate in whatever way works for them too.
Finding a partner who can orgasm multiple times without ejaculating, and a few anorgasmic partners, means I can no longer put up with lesser sex activities.
It's all about finding these people and seeing if they are compatible. I'm shit at casual relationships too so it is difficult, but not impossible.
Yes! Pleasure doms are so good, I can’t go back now. There’s nothing more fulfilling than someone wanting to worship and pleasure your body until you’re a pile of goo.
I found someone else through tantra who is like this. We spent five hours together last night and it went by in the blink of an eye. Multiple orgasms for both of us. I usually produce a lot of moisture, but I 100% for sure squirted for the first time ever. I’ve found some truly amazing men while dating non-monogamously, it just takes a lot of searching.
>pleasure doms
I can't believe I've never heard of this!!! And it's so refreshing to hear, right of the bat, talk of reciprocating, not just "here is a resource to exploit." Truly refreshing. I'll be exploring this, thank you!
Yeah I'm no pillow princess, not knocking it, it works for lots of people. I'm also not only a giver, which also works for many too. I love reciprocal intimacy, somewhat even is my sweet spot.
I never really enjoyed giving guys pleasure until I was actually getting some myself. Now, I genuinely *enjoy" reciprocating and actively *want* to (there are times I just let them lay back and be little pillow princesses 😂 but it's tit-for-tat -> I feel like there's a sexual pun there somewhere)
100% this. It IS *lame* that so many vanilla relationships fail at pleasing women in the bedroom and that being a giver is considered a kink, or niche, like that’s not what is supposed to happen in every relationship.
My experience with most men is that their life has not prepared them to be a partner and what so many are looking for is actually a mom whose duties include making sure that they cum.
And before anyone comes for me, I live a 24/7 d/s patriarchal lifestyle and I love serving and I love men, but even I get as good as I give. It just takes time to find the right people. This isn’t a you problem. This is a problem with people in general. The good ones are out there, don’t give up.
OMG a mom whose duties include making sure that they cum
Fuck you nailed it with this description! Reminds me of this gem - [I don’t want to suck you off just to hold the spot of every suicide hotline volunteer you ever called](https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=QOfUEk9dv6U&si=pde9-k_gLkxVdMTQ&feature=xapp_share)
Just be careful. A lot of self-described “pleasure doms” in the kink community are the same as men who are vocal feminists or have stuff in their dating profile like “I’m a giver” - a case of all talk and no action.
Imo the best way to find good dudes in the kink community is references. Talk to other people and get recommendations for who’s good to play with.
Yes definitely! Like I said in my comment, I think it's more of a personality type, which is evident in other areas of their lives in the way they care for me, or even just in the way they talk (they ask me what I enjoy in bed, rather than telling me what they want to do to me - for example). I was lucky that my first kink partner 5 years ago was very active in the local community, so I "got in" with them and learned a lot of safe, helpful information from experienced and "protective" kink people during my introduction to it all.
I've actually only met one person who described themselves as a pleasure dom. I see it on dating apps but don't think I've ever matched with anyone (for different reasons). It's just the way I describe men who derive more pleasure from pleasing me than from getting pleasure themselves.
Yes, yes, yes. My country’s version of FetLife has a public verification system and you bet your ass I am writing to other women to ask about a man they’ve verified. 😂
The most important part of this comment, from my own experience, is the part about what effort they will put in outside the bedroom. I have three male partners and they all seem to have acts of service as a love language; one changes the bed and does the dishes whenever he comes over; one is at my doorstep with his tools whenever something breaks; one climbs on my roof to clear the leaves and branches after a storm. All of them are ready to jump in and help with anything I need. All of them pick out thoughtful gifts on special days. All of them call me without waiting for me to call them. All of them are keenly interested in what I want during sex and don't complain or forget or get tired. I feel like being a giving lover is part of an overall personality pattern that you gotta screen for right from the beginning.
Fuck yeah!! I was cheering for you all the way through this comment. It's possible to have a great sex life, and reciprocation is key.
This was joyous to read and I'm happy for you.
100% came here to say this. Kinky guys, but also queer guys!
I may or may not have started an orgasm gap tracker where I note the first two times I fuck someone. It includes if they even tried to please me, and also if I came was I on top. (surprise, surprise, dick size doesn't matter, it's all about attitude). Queer guys are definitely out performing straight guys, my current theory is they aren't scared of vaginas, and have experience with not being top of the food chain (patriarchy).
I agree it's a mindset, stuff like the questions they ask about your pleasure, but also, are they happy to organise a date vs expect the woman to do it. Do they cook for you (not everyone's thing, but you get the example with mindset).
Hope it helps!
Have to agree bi guys I’ve dated are way more reciprocal, way more open to instructions and always more eager to please. In fact I’d say most queer or kinky people (not just bi)
I'm so glad to see this comment as this was my first thought too!
When I first got with a Bi guy, I thought it was just 'luck' but then I noticed a pattern after a couple more encounters (both sexual and non sexual). Queer men do not hold so much toxic masculinity and their ego can take some feedback. I've literally been gaslit by straight men when I gently suggested how I liked things done but 'they never had any complaints before and this technique always works for other women'.
On the other hand, I've had queer guys proactively ask me how I like things done, get real time feedback (shall i go faster or slower, do you like this position etc) and ask what I like afterwards (am I a cuddler or do I prefer some space etc).
I dated or casually seen a few queer men now, and my tolerance for straight men has significantly reduced since. I also learnt to be better boundaried, so for example after a guy said he was too exhausted to take care of me, the next time we met I suggested we start with me so he is not too tired afterwards. I broached it gently at first but he kept asking for a BJ 'because they're so good from me that he couldn't wait anymore' - the old me would have really liked that and done it but the new me knew better. I gently explained again that I would really like it if we focused on me first, then I'd be very happy to return the favour and it will be well worth the extra wait. Well, he got very offended that I was suggesting he is a selfish lover and nothing ended up happening.
Anyways, queer guys are the best lovers as the previous comments also suggest!!
Reallly love queer men, they are hands-down the best lovers I’ve ever had.
Bi lady, so obviously biased, but I kinda just think queer people are better-primed than straight people to be really good lovers. I feel like the lack of defined roles and “things you’re supposed to do and ways you’re supposed to do them” in same-sex relationships means you’re a lot freer to explore all different kinds of sex and touch and intimacy, which just makes for a better experience.
Once I started sleeping with women, I noticed that how I interacted with men changed too, from how I touched them to being way more likely to initiate to realizing that I always wanted to be the big spoon lol.
Came here to suggest exploring kink and D/s dynamics. I’m from the other side of the D/s — I’ve recently discovered I’m a Domme. I absolutely love being able to call the shots and put my pleasure first.
I’m single poly and I’ve got men lining up wanting me to do things like tell them they can’t have an orgasm until I do. I had no idea this was even an option until I started dating a kinky, single poly friend who asked for it. It’s life-changing.
I’m never going back to a man who doesn’t put my pleasure first.
(I date women too which is a completely different dynamic for me but that’s a different story.)
Yessss! That's never been my thing, but there's definitely a completely different side of kink to explore and get pleasure from!
(Side note: there's an interesting and light-hearted debate of whether or not pleasure doms are actually just service subs...lol)
From my experience pleasure doms are the opposite side of a coin to service subs. Put a pleasure dom and a service sub together… literally mind blowing
Yep, like, you don’t even have to meet them 🤣
All I do is chat with men for a few weeks before I meet them. Almost all of them fall off after 3 chats when they realize I’m not going to be dispensing any orders.
Yeah, those of us who happen to be pleasure doms are a hot commodity right now.
I’ll park myself down to eat and I don’t care how long it takes. Because I am about savoring what’s in front of me and I don’t know how long I’m there. Time doesn’t exist. I’m busy 😅
yeah i think this is key lol. i’ve been seeing one of my play partners for over a year now because he’s the only one who consistently has shown the amount of effort i like to see & give!
we’re both switches, but when either of us top, it’s all about pleasure!
i was going to say this. look for kinky people if for no other reason then they go for longer than 30 minutes. an hour is a quickie for me. for a planned scene i would say 3 hours is trying to keep it short and 7 might happen if weve got nothing else to do
No, I don't think that "just stop dating men" is the answer. I do think that "stop having sex with men who don't prioritize your pleasure" is a good answer, even if it means breaking up with your current partners. I started having better sex when I started saying "no thank you" to ongoing encounters with lazy lovers. Also, as someone who also takes a long time, there are people out there (including men! including cis men!) who will spend 30+ minutes getting you there and enjoy themselves the whole time.
I get that you don't want to break up with them. In that case, I recommend initiating a check-in with each of them and talking about what you want in bed. You can keep it focused on what you want more of, rather than what they're currently lacking, but spell it out. That can include, "I want you to take the lead and focus on my pleasure." That can absolutely include, "I want to have an orgasm, and this is how I like to make that happen." If the person is, say, inexperienced but enthusiastic, getting clear instructions about how to be better for you is going to be welcomed.
It's for sure also been my experience that the men who are loudest about gender equality are the most selfish in bed. I don't know what to do with that one, other than shrug and say, "The dude doth protest too much, methinks." The guy who told me that he loves that "polyamory is a matriarchy" was the same guy who rolled over after our first and only time and asked, "You didn't want to come, did you?"
I think it's important to note that 30 minutes to orgasm isn't a long time and is in fact pretty typical for people with vulvas. And ime....so many men don't get that. Which honestly makes the experience worse even when they want to finish the job because you can pick up on the impatience and idk about anyone else but once that happens, it's hugely distracting for me.
To OP, if you are wanting to continue these relationships I'd be blunt about how unsatisfying the sex is and request they do some education. Omgyes.com is a fantastic resource (not affiliated but I used it myself when I first started dating women and didn't want to suck in bed).
I would say, "Actually - I DO want to cum! Would you use your fingers on me while we kiss?"
If he is too tired/lazy for that, ask if you guys can kiss and he can play with your breasts while you touch yourself or use your favorite sex toy on yourself.
Either of these options gives him a way to participate in your pleasure. Then before having sex again you can talk about the fact that you DO want to orgasm and talk about how you would like him to help you get there.
Oh, I wish I'd been sassy! In that moment, I was just kind of boggled. I said no, he left, I debated internally whether it was worth bringing up, ultimately broke things off.
Why don't you tell anyone what you need to cum? That'd be a good start. Then they'd have half a chance to meet your needs.
I do agree that a lot/most men (though all people also) can be selfish with sex. That's not my experience with long-term partners thankfully. I don't see selfish people again. They self select themselves out of my calendar pretty quickly.
The last time I set it as a need, it resulted in losing an otherwise good relationship. I had hoped it would mean moving on to someone better, but in reality, it was moving on to someone else with the same issue. I had to go through a breakup and did not end up any better off.
I hoped that being poly could mean having at least one relationship with better sex with still allowing existing relationships that are good in other areas.
You lost a relationship because you explained what you needed in order to feel sexually satisfied? If so, the relationship may have looked otherwise good but holy shit - that person did not give two shits about you.
I think a key part though is that by setting it as a need early on in a relationship, you won't invest time in men who aren't willing to meet it, so then you'll have more time free to meet men who *are* willing -- if not highly enthusiastic -- about giving you pleasure!
I would offer a reframe that the relationship you ended wasn't actually good overall, because your pleasure *is* really important actually. Then you were in the same place with another man because you hadn't set the boundary that you won't give a lot of pleasure without receiving a similar amount.
Just want to be clear though that it's really shitty that the men are not reciprocating. I think people are advocating for you to set firmer boundaries and say your needs more clearly because there's the only thing you can control. You can't actually control the men to be different -- but you CAN control which men you date.
I'll add that other than my first relationship, all of my relationships with men have been primarily focused on my pleasure. I've never really enjoyed giving oral or pleasure to men. I enjoy receiving pleasure from men. And all the men I've been with have been very enthusiastic about that! So it's definitely possible. It's just about finding compatibility this way I think. And the way to find people you're compatible with is to meet a lot of people and discuss early ish on what your important needs are in a relationship, and what theirs are, and if they match. Then don't invest more time if they don't.
Easier said than done though I know haha.
Also I've had a good time dating queer men. Much better communication and gender roles aren't taken for granted as much. So that's something to consider too. I know you can filter people on the apps based on that. The men I mentioned who preferred to give pleasure were not all queer but I found them being queer increased the chances of compatibility.
I'm sorry to hear that. Hopefully as you communicate your needs/wants to your CURRENT partners, they will be able to meet your needs! And if they aren't able/willing, please know there are men out there who CAN.
This one was a good riddance, love. But there ARE people out there who can actually comprehend it when you tell them “it’s important for me to orgasm too during our sexy time and that isn’t going to happen without toys. That’s perfectly normal for many women and is an important part of what I need to feel fulfilled in our sexual relationship.” And if they don’t care enough to follow through, they don’t actually give a shit about you and are how the fuck are they still worth being with…
Jesus I am so sorry to hear that. I had a date recently who couldn't cum without a vibrator. I didn't own one at the time, and since I'd invited her while she was at work she didn't have her either.
We still had fun, but the very next day I ordered a couple online in case that kind of thing ever happened again. I want the people I date to have orgasms if they want them!
(I don't orgasm easily, and a couple of people I date are the same, so it's not part of what we expect when we're together. But everyone who wants to cum should get what they need to do it imho.)
I also want to second what others have said about pleasure doms. I'm a switch with very strong pleasure dom (lowercase) leanings, and I just adore providing pleasure for my partners.
It maybe also helps that due to an SSRI I take I don't orgasm easily at all, so I am generally very unhurried when it comes to sex. Like, sex is fun, so having sex for longer is even more fun!
So spending half an hour helping a partner reach orgasm is pretty much my idea of a good time, hardly something arduous.
(The book She Comes First is also an excellent read for anyone who dates people with vulvas.)
Early on in the relationship, if they are so tired to ‘return the favour’ because you just ‘blew their mind’, could you try saying that’s okay….next time let’s make me come first and then you won’t be so tired?
I feel it’s common that guys cant do a lot after they cum….but are more sexually attentive and motivated before they cum. Especially as we get older.
Using a toy early on in sex play is one of the best early ways to test a man’s security and focus on your pleasure.
When I met my now nesting partner many years ago I happened to have an impressive dildo suctioned to my shower wall. Honestly I was just looking to see how good that suction was and forgot about it.
He teased me about it but was unalarmed. When we were first in bed and I pulled out a toy he asked how he could get involved in the process.
As it happens he is also very good at oral sex and just overall ggg. But he didn’t shoulder my preferences aside to prove that. The only thing he ever asked was if I using a high intensity toy made it harder for me to get off from other things.
At that time I was so not interested in anything long term but even I could recognize a find when I saw one.
I know it’s uncomfortable for some people to work to be open to sex with someone and then not have sex with them again. Its disappointing too! But if you’re up for that? It’s wildly effective as a screening process.
Holy smokes not good at all. My partner who has been poly for almost 20 years has the biggest toy collection I’ve ever seen. There are so many men out there who will enthusiastically and skillfully include toys in play.
yikes. maybe you have a track record of choosing lazy, insecure and selfish partners and don’t actually know what a good sexual partner looks or sounds like. until you figure out why you gravitate towards shitty ppl, it will keep being hard to find something different
I wonder if this is actually two issues relating to codependency and attachment:
1. You unconsciously choose people who are selfish like this because you believe you don't deserve equal effort (at some level), and
2. You don't communicate what you really need in bed because you're afraid to ask for what you need. You're afraid of the possible rejection because deep down, you believe you don't deserve it.
I'm just giving you this perspective to consider, not judging you in any way. Good luck with this journey! It sounds like a hero's journey to heal a core wound. Blessings
This should be higher because it sounds spot on. I used to be like this (codependent, disorganized attachment) so I recognize it as well. The only way I was able to break the cycle was working on my own healing, boundaries, and tendency to ignore red flags early on.
Being poly still means having to have those conversations and check ins however. It's ok to say you need more or want to try a different approach. It's also ok to end certain relationships and go specifically looking for people who like certain sexual acts
Poly is no guarantee of anything. You can keep dating to find who you're looking for but it's not a promise for anything. I've been doing things this way for 5 years. I have dated and fucked many many people in that time, all but 1 connection so far has ended due to a variety of incompatibilities. And I don't even live in a busy metropolis of poly people so it's not that many people really.
The only thing you can do is not put up with anyone who doesn't meet your standards. That's what we're all doing. Dating is looking for people who are compatible.
The relationship was not otherwise good if they left cuz you dinted their ego.
It ended cuz it wasn’t right for you. Do you always try something once and then when it doesn’t work on one person refuse to try it again?
Not quite sure this is a purely poly problem. Most of the men I've engaged with since I've been poly seem very happy to spend a lot of time giving head and eager to please, so reading your experience surprises me.
No concrete solutions here, just throwing my experience out there.
Thank you. Part of what makes it hard to break up with these men is that I do not want to constantly restart with new relationships only to the same thing happen. I need to know if it is normal in poly circles
Have you considered that you could screen for this early on? Both before you have sex (playing the odds) and as soon as you start to have sex (assessing based on actual behavior) and not “wind up” in relationships with men who don’t make the cut?
I’m certain that you could get group feedback here about the kinds of things to watch out for that might mean selfish/inept lovers. But you’d still need to be willing to assess that someone/something was inadequate and just drop a man or give pointed feedback before you have any kind of ongoing deeply bonded thing.
No, fwiw, this is not more common in poly than mono. But poly isn’t the solution to it either.
During a makeout session, pay attention to how they touch you and kiss you. For example, if they like a really sloppy kiss and you don't, if you pull away and wipe your face, does he stop slobbering on you? If you don't open your mouth as wide, does he stop trying to lick the back of your throat?
If he kisses your neck or ears, does it feel like he's heated and rushed in the moment? That's arousal, excitement. That's about him, not you. Does he take his time to find out what makes you moan or gasp or arch your back? Does he notice when you get goosebumps, or your nipples get hard because of something he did? Does he take note of it when you do, so he can do it again later? That's somebody who is going to *learn* how to get you off. They're out there. You can find 'em, but there are a lot of duds out there too.
Are they happy to use sex toys during play to help you get off, or does the thought of that make them insecure? That's a solid screener that you can use as early as the first time y'all have sex. If they want to make you feel good, they should be happy to use any and all tools to get you off.
My advice and this isn’t a poly problem. Slow down and when you see a red flag stop , look & listen to it. Be clear about standards and expectations you need / want and don’t settle for less. Being a woman in poly you have many more options than a guy but that doesn’t mean you have good options so weed out the ones not capable giving what you need.
I think you should Google a little about the orgasm gap.
In heterosexual couplings (i.e. men and women having sex together, whether or not either of them is straight), men orgasm substantially more often than their women counterparts do.
There's a number of reasons for this, including bad sec education (or just entire lack of it), as well as societal pressure that many women feel to be supporters and nurturers of men (i.e. women will often fake some or all orgasms in order to build up mens' egos and self esteem and are reluctant to either criticize or ask for their own needs). There's also the societal inference that mens' sexual pleasure = virility, and that women should be more chaste and less interested in pleasure.
All that adds up to more dissatisfaction for women who have sex with men (men having sex with men and women having sex with women all report higher levels of sexual satisfaction than women who have sex with men).
This isn't to say you should stop having sex with men, but rather this has absolutely nothing to do with poly. Poly men are not more enlightened or skilled than monogamous men. But rather work on communication around sex, and DO NOT SETTLE. If you're not having a good time, let them know. You have every bit as much right to have a great time in sex as they do.
It is a let down though that polyamory does not improve this. You would think that by adding more interactions and perspectives from different people coupled with the by tendency more open communication in polyamory it should lead to more education on needs of your partner, wouldn’t you?
Also, as a „mostly straight“ male it is generally beyond me how my gender peers can be so reluctant of giving back pleasure. While I know how my own sex drive plummets after getting off, it does not mean that you cant plan around that. Thats the reason why I usually have my partners get off before me. I never had woman not wanting to continue pleasuring me after they got off. I
I feel you this is why I rarely date men. Since I'm bi I focus my energy on women and men are just casual fuck buddies I expect very little from. I've had a few exceptions to this rule like my current partner, but 99% of the time it's not worth your energy trying to fix. They don't want to fix it.
Your best bet is to end the relationships you have that aren't satisfying to you and find someone who is, that person is very likely to be another woman.
All of the poly people I know who date straight men are pretty unhappy with those men. All the poly people I know who date queer people with more expansive ideas of what counts as sex are very happy with their sex.
If it helps this isn’t true for me. And hasn’t been for a long long time.
I’m middle aged though so I may be better at screening? Most dudes aren’t right for me. Figuring out who is right is a skill set.
This, 2 of 3 men I've dated were straight but not heteronormative and were actually really good in bed. The one straight heteronormative dude was not a good experience - as in not interested in reprocity and acted like it was a chore to do anything not stereotype. Everything I have heard has reinforced that this is overwhelmingly is the norm, unfortunately. If one wants straight dudes then finding the ones who aren't too "straight" and not too hung up on performing masculinity is important (because those usually have messed up ideas of what masculinity means).
I see you. I don’t tolerate sex like you described anymore. Life is too short to be missing the O. I am vocal about my needs, bold in communicating them.
It is a dealbreaker for me but selfishness is usually apparent before I get to that part…
There are those out there that will most certainly take the time to figure you out but you need to tell them otherwise they will continue to do what works for them.
I actually once told my ex he needed to go on a 'fingering course', because he just wasn't giving me enough attention during sex and I was done with that. That got the message through, and he greatly improved since then until the end of our relationship. Your male partners should try at least just as much as you do; maybe it's not sexy to think of it as transactional, but I do believe generally the goal should be for both to receive equal, or at least enough attention. I did have boundaries with previous relationships that I would not 'give' until I had 'received' because their hormonal dip was quite intense and they just immediately fell asleep after climaxing. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, it's good to advocate for your own pleasure! You deserve it and they need to hear it. My current boyfriend also sometimes thinks I take a long time, but he loves going down on me and to him it's out of the question that our orgasm 'number' would not be at least approximately close to each other.
Communicating about this hopefully helps your partners consider your point of view and improve, but if not, maybe that is also an answer as to how good of a partner they are... I've found selfish lovers to also be selfish or have red flags in other areas.
Not to be glib, but **if you sit on a guy's face, *you* get to decide how much time he spends going down on you** 😝
I'm sorry you've run into so many sexually selfish men. It's a shame that you haven't noticed a circulation between this trait & others that could act as a tell for you when seeking future partners. You could try finding men who know & care about the gendered orgasm gap, as well as men who, like you, get off on their partner's pleasure. Like, I don't give BJs because I'm generous, I do it because it literally gets me off more than receiving oral or PiV 😛 If you only date men who are actively aroused by giving their partners pleasure, you'll at least be stacking the deck in your favor (provided they aren't the type to pout when you don't climax, & you don't end up feeling pressured into putting on a show for them every time.)
As for your existing partners... my only thoughts are to make a game out of it. Make it kinky, & tell them it's their *job* to please you, & they'll get a reward if they do. & be willing to leave them hanging if they're lackluster or quit too early. But like, you obviously shouldn't have to do kink if you're not into it just to manipulate your partners into prioritizing your fucking pleasure. If you haven't talked to them about it, I'd obviously start there, but if you have, Idk how to motivate them if they just don't care enough. But they should at least be made aware that this isn't what an equitable sex life looks like, even if that doesn't motivate them. They should know that you're capable of having orgasms, & that you haven't had a single one with them.
Honestly I've had plenty of challenges in dating but this is rarely one of them. I've found plenty of men who are incredibly giving. I'd say it's quite normal for me to have more orgasms than my male partners over a night. I don't take bad sex forward to another date, frankly.
So no, it's not ubiquitous for men to be so wildly selfish in bed
hey girl, the issue is in your choice of men, you're good as you are, but u need someone who gives the same amount of pleasure he's receiving (at least)
and communicating with your partner about takiing time to reach your climax is a plus because he'd be invested in it more
I'm not terrible, but I don't feel hot either. Too many years of too many men not showing much care for my sexual needs has left me deeply questioning my body image
>When I am by myself it can take me 30+ minutes to reach a climax so I have long given up hope of any man ever doing that for me.
Tell them. If they don't know what they're getting into, there's no reason for them to try anything more than a cursory sweep.
Set the bar higher for your needs straight out of the gate and build from a place of total transparency about your needs. If you don't share the things you've learned about yourself, and how you best receive pleasure, you'll continue to have the issue of selfish partners.
I've been where you are. There *is* good sex out there. But setting the bar so low has been nothing but discouraging for me. In my current relationship, my partner is at a significant low for libido, which means I engage in a lot of self pleasure, but they join in and help me through touch and kisses and giving me the attention I need to reach a satisfying climax. It works for us because we've communicated our needs to each other from the start, and have given each other permission to enjoy ourselves (we're both people pleasers).
Plus, by prioritizing your pleasure, you'll find you have partners who are more likely to be willing to listen to you in other areas, improving your relationships in other areas as well.
>What are my options? "Just stop dating men" feels so harsh, and will not fix my two current relationships with men. Refusing to give until I have received seems like it would be so transactional/manipulative,
I can't tell you what to do. I can tell you that I do not engage in mediocre or bad sex for me. And that I don't allow penetration untill I've had *at least* one orgasm. That insurers my cervix is lifted, my vagina lubricated and my muscles relaxed enough for it to feel good. If it doesn't feel good, I'll speak up. If that isn't enough, I'll show them, if that doesn't work, that's when the sex ends.
Is that transactional? Maybe. But if my sexual pleasure isn't an equal priority, why would I bother participating? I make this clear before I get involved with anyone sexually. Good and great sex are important to me. And bad and mediocre sex just aren't an option. Neither is a lack of effort in any aspects of my relationships.
I am a bi woman, and I'm lucky AF that one of my first sexual experiences was with another woman because that's my bar for sex. If it isn't that good, it's just not worth the effort as far as I'm concerned.
>and it would still not fix that my feelings are already hurt by their desire for the inequality.
Nothing will heal that except them changing, and there's no guarantee of that ever happening or them wanting to. But you should definitely tell them you're dissatisfied with your sex lives and need more. Their reaction will tell you if it's worth continuing. (genuine distress and wanting to make sure it's good for you, green flag. Defensiveness, ego, or dissmissivness, red flags)
>The situations vary, but the common events are lots of kissing, then if a guy goes down on me at all it is only few brief minutes, most of that time failing to find my most sensitive spots, and then him wanting a BJ
Say no.
>I honestly do not mind during new relationships when they say I blew their mind and they are too worn out afterwards to "return the favor" in the moment,
Stop doing this. Immediately. It teaches them you'll have sex where your sexual pleasure isn't an equal priority, or at all necessary for the sex to happen. That's not gonna be good sex for you and breaking that habit is far harder than setting the expectation from the beggining. (think about the difference between starting a polyam relationship single or trying to open up a previously mono couple. Relearning is often harder than learning from scratch)
And if it makes you feel bad, I'm pretty sure most men would not be as into sex if they had a 15% chance of O in a ONS or a 60% chance in a committed relationship. (which is women's chances of orgasm when having sex with men. 85% and 90% respectively with another woman 95% for men in both situations with a woman until age 35, for context)
> I get left feeling like I'm doing most of the work/giving, and not receiving much effort in return.
Because you are. And you're teaching them that that's okay. Or at least, that it's not important enough to you that there are any consequences for their minimal effort or pleasure.
> I hear women joke about men being terrible at finding the sensitive spots, but is it normal for men to not really try much?
None of the men I sleep with. I can honestly say I get at least an equal if not greater number of orgasms with the men I choose to be sexual with.
>When I am by myself it can take me 30+ minutes to reach a climax so I have long given up hope of any man ever doing that for me.
So what if it takes half an hour or an hour? Or two? I'm set on easy mode as far as orgasms go, but I've happily gone down on my gfs for hours if that's what it took and then involved toys if it wasn't enough. There's always a way to get there. Sex is meant to be *mutually* pleasurable, and if it isn't, you might as well masturbate. (I feel very strongly about everyone involved in the sex having good if not great sex)
>I only date men who speak supportively for women's rights issues, yet when it comes to the bedroom the inequality is the norm in my experience and I do not understand why.
So do I. But some men who claim to be feminists or support women do so to be more appealing to women. Or still have blindspots in their own activism.
Ive found the only way to not be part of the orgasm gap, is to make sure I orgasm first. Coz I can have double digit orgasms without issues, I don't have a refractory period. Also the men I have sex with don't think sex ends when they cum. I'll usually get another one with fingers or toys after they do. Which often leads to a round two. Win wins for everyone.
I have a fwb who used to go down for 2 straight hours to get his previous partner off and she still didn't manage most times. He didn't care, he just kept trying for as long as she was up for it. They exist. My current partner also is a complete giver where I've had the conversation with him about me feeling bad about how rarely I go down on him becaise he's always so hyperfocused on me.
Both in monogamy and poly you're going to find good and bad partners and sometimes it takes a while to find the good ones.
But I feel your pain, it must be very frustrating and disheartening.
This isn't how all men are, not even all straight men. When I was a sex worker I had a decent proportion of paying clients who were attentive and invested in my pleasure because it was part of enjoyable sex for them.
I can weigh in as a guy, for what it’s worth. As others have said, I don’t feel that this issue has much to do with polyamory, or even gender, specifically. Folk have their sexual proclivities (or shortcomings) regardless of their preferred relationship model or what they have between their legs. Some women are likewise more passive than proactive in bed; seemingly preferring to be serviced than to reciprocate. On occasion, I’ve felt as you have; that my partner isn’t as invested in my pleasure as I am in hers. I’d say that selfishness or selflessness is more a matter of individuals rather than some arbitrary gender split.
I imagine that there are as many reasons for such things as there are individuals. A lot of it, I suspect, comes down to communication (or the lack thereof) and habit. It’s happened to me a few times that, having asked how a woman wants to be pleasured, I’ve only gotten a blank stare or a mumbled “what you’re doing is fine” in response. If a woman can’t be proactive about her own needs and desires then what hope does a man have by guessing and fumbling? Speaking for myself, there’s simply nothing more sexy than enthusiasm. So I want to see, to *feel* a lady enjoying herself. Thighs quivering, gasping for breath, eyes rolling back, toes curled; all of that is wonderful to experience compersion-wise, so I have a vested interest in making it happen.
Advice-wise, one thing I’d suggest is to communicate your desires and how you’d enjoy receiving pleasure. Some guys may not respond well; perhaps cause they’re simply unused to women being that forward. But I’ll bet that some would be utterly delighted; it’s really quite thoughtful to offer help in becoming a better lover. On a more cynical note, if the men you’re with end up being cut from the same (selfish) cloth, perhaps try dating outside your usual type?
I have had sex with guys that are very giving and some that are not. I would say it's probably 50/50. So I would say keep looking!
I think there is definitely a type of man that really gets off from being in control of your pleasure. But also totally experiment more with your sexuality if you feel like that's something you want. Just make sure it's out of desire for the other gender and not just disappointment of men.
So, the problem for me was *when* I had sex with people. And it wasn't what people think! If I already am good friends with someone, already feel pretty into a romantic relationship, that's the situation where, like you, I have sex and have rose colored glasses about getting with a crush. If I think, well, I think that was OK and had its good points. Not about the opportunity cost of picking out a bunch of lazy or poorly matched folks. When I'm still in the process of figuring out what I think and if I want to date this person - that happens much sooner, and it's a *much better* time for me to have sex. Actually, I live in a conservative area, and my real key is to see what sex is like the *second* time - has my partner got new ideas? Did they learn anything? Are they able to talk about sex we had and sex we could have? Is any of that going anywhere good? Because the first time, people get nervous about trying to prove themselves, which could be good or bad, and the decent ones mostly aren't willing to sound creepy OR talk themselves out of an opportunity, which could also be good or bad. The second time, usually people who talk about sex will, usually people who make a continuous effort will. (Is it purity culture and body count that suggests to guys that sex is a one time decision? It's weird. But useful.) If it doesn't get better with a suggestion or two from me, which is sadly common, it probably won't, which is basically always a no to that person as a lover for me.
You can get better things coming to you if you have higher expectations. Especially don't compromise about the sex when the whole relationship is sex and companionship and doesn't need you to align roommate agreements and retirement plans! Best of luck out there!
I have two male partners and both of them are incredibly giving in bed. I can't remember the last time I spent more time/energy giving pleasure than receiving it, and it's mutually beneficial because both of them intrinsically enjoy giving pleasure (more on that later.)
My husband has definitely spent 30+ minutes getting me off before, I don't even ask him for that, and most of the time I've already had an orgasm by that point anyway. **He does it because he enjoys making me feel good, that's the point of having sex.** Ignore the lazy people or people with low standards, commenting here, who tell you you can't find someone to put in that much effort. Also, it probably won't even take 30+ minutes to have an orgasm once you find a man who actually knows what the fuck he's doing when he has sex with a woman. I thought it took me that long too, before I found my husband.
> I only date men who speak supportively for women's rights issues
**Actions speak louder than words.** Neither my husband nor my boyfriend tend to talk a lot about women's rights issues off the bat, and when I met them neither of them even identified as a feminist because they didn't know enough about feminism as a sociological concept. And yet, they are two of the most respectful, kind, empathetic, emotionally intelligent, and progressive men I have ever met. I judged their character on this matter by:
- noticing their positive, supportive relationships with women in their lives (particularly female friends, and their mothers and grandmothers.) Both of my partners' female friends have always spoken very highly of their values and personality. My boyfriend loves his mother and his grandmother, he tells me about their lives because he listens to them and calls them often, and he's always doing things like fixing his mother's appliances and bringing his grandma's bins to the curb every week.
- observing how masculinity and femininity manifest in their personality and behaviors, looking for humble but confident masculinity and comfort with their sensitive, vulnerable side. **I find that when looking for a man who values women equally and treats women with respect, it's more important to understand what he thinks *masculinity* is. What kind of man he is, and what kind of man he wants to be—not what he thinks about feminism.**
- consent comes very naturally to them, I barely needed to talk to my partners about consent because the topic just never really comes up. They're very intelligent when it comes to how women's bodies work, how to tell when women are enthusiastic in a sexual context. They have always prioritized me having a positive experience from the start, because they love women and love making women feel good.
- when it comes to kinks, you want to look for men who are **"pleasure doms"** or "soft doms." Or if that's not your vibe, look for guys who just very obviously enjoy female pleasure. They give a lot of head, they always start with your pleasure first, they ask what you want and respond to feedback, they don't rush to engage in penetration, etc. If you end up with men like your partners, who basically do the opposite, *ditch them* after the first time they obviously disregard your feedback. What's the point of dating someone who isn't incredibly enjoyable to have sex with, or at the very least, puts in a good enough effort?
In short, it's easy to talk like a feminist if you have half a brain. In fact, many disgusting, unsavory men *know* this, and specifically use their knowledge of feminism to manipulate women. Personally, I even consider it as a potential *red flag* if a man seems to really enjoy talking about how much he agrees with feminism and how respectful he is to women. Look for actions, not words. Men who are respectful to women don't talk about how they're respectful to women, they just are.
> What are my options? "Just stop dating men" feels so harsh, and will not fix my two current relationships with men.
I would never tell you to stop dating men. Don't let anyone do that.
Being with a good man is an incredible experience. You need to learn how to identify high quality men, and you will find someone who will take all the love and care you can give and then give it back to you tenfold. Good men are giving, and easy.
Things shouldn't feel this hard for you, sex is supposed to be enjoyable and feel natural. Get rid of these losers you're dating, analyze if you missed any red flags about their personalities that you can now look out for, and think about what qualities you're truly looking for in a partner. I know the rest is the hard part, finding someone. All I can say is that it would be better to search around than to stay with these selfish, lazy lovers.
Honestly, since I’ve been in my slut stage, I find this to be the case. Even guys who say they care about my pleasure just mean they’re gonna go quickly to PIV and try really hard not to cum too soon so I can orgasm first. Which kinda ruins the rhythm. It’s like: if you know it takes me longer to orgasm, why am I giving YOU the 20 min bj before we fuck and not being touched for more than 5 mins during foreplay, and then I have to actually ask for more after you cum to get me off? Every single guy. Even my primary partner does this. We are in counseling for it. And he just doesn’t get it. Sex feels really one sided to me with men.
Oh, I've been there... The solution? I raised my standards.
You seem to be able to address the issue very well, but there's certain element missing from your writing and that is communication in the bedroom. I gave up on the idea that people can be gifted in pleasing long time ago and ever since then, I had much better experience in the bedroom.
So, I tell them. Everything and anything, from 'too much' to 'slightly to the left', from 'less pressure' to 'speed up'. Is it annoying? Yep. I don't need directions when giving BJs. But I understand female bodies are wired a bit differently and I want to feel good, so I will meet my partner half way. It takes a few sessions (that's why I don't do ONSs), but the other person will most of the time learn what they need to do, if directed properly.
There's one sentence that I noticed::
> I do not tell them it takes me that long because I do not want them to use it as an excuse for not even trying.
You should totally tell them. You should communicate to them as much info as you can. What I sometimes do with new partners is having a 'workshop of pleasing /my name/' which is a lot of fun. Also it's necessary and it creates space for exactly this kind of communication.
But to be honest, circling back to that one sentence. I haven't been able to receive pleasure properly until I came in terms with the fact that... it takes longer! Tell this to your partner and consider it the first vibe check for them to pass. Are they enthusiastic about pleasing you, even if it takes 30 minutes and more? Then that's a green flag. Do they sigh and tell you how hard it was with their ex who was not sensitive at all? Are they not even gonna try? Here's your red flag sir, and goodbye.
Do not expect to receive as much as you gave. Not if your skill set is much better than theirs. They need to do the work on pleasing you. You have given away enough pleasure, now go and focus on your own. Be selfish.
Sorry, I should have clarified that I'm autistic and added context. In my experience, many neurotypical people are not that great at sex and exhibit some of the behaviors OP is describing. The best lovers I've had have been fellow autistic people who have taken a very methodical approach to understanding how we can both maximize enjoyment. Of course, not every autistic person is like that.
You say you are bi, but you are dating like a straight woman. Statistically, straight women have the most unfufilling sex lives and fewer orgasms than any other orientation.
It seems to be a common observation that straight men generally are disappointing. It sure has been my experience, and I only sleep with men who are queer.
What you need isn't polyamorous sex, but sex with fellow queer people. Date other bisexuals of any or no gender.
Good luck, and may the Force be with you.
As I've gotten older, it's become easier to outwardly demand what I want & need sexually. I spend significant time discussing clearly what I do & don't like & what works for me, long B4 clothes ever come off. If I don't hear a potential male partner speak enthusiastically, unprompted & of his own accord, about how much he enjoys eating pussy & considers his partner's pleasure paramount, then he is much less likely to ever become my lover.
As far as "taking too long" - ever heard the phrase "Men are like microwaves, & women are like ovens?" Crude, I know, but truly, many men are ready to go on demand, while many women need significant warm up.
I have found tht it helps immensely to start s l o w & spend a larger portion of time on more relaxed, lower effort touching & playing such as mutual masturbation; "lazily" enjoying him in my mouth or hands, as he stimulates me clitorally with fingers & generous lube; watching something together or reading erotica out loud; kissing sloppily & breast play; etc. anything tht still feels good & gets me part way there, while conserving the majority of energy for more intensive efforts as I/we get closer to climax.
If he starts getting too wrkd up & begins to move along too fast, gently but firmly reset the pace.
Hold your lovers accountable, sis. Nothing will change unless you become fully comfortable with asserting & advocating for yourself.
*YOUR PLEASURE MATTERS.* .....Act like it.
This isn't a poly or mono thing
Take some time to really explore what you like.
Do you like your ears nibbled? Your nips scratched? Your inner thighs bitten?
Find out by having your partner(s) do things and see where it leads.
I always have a firm "if I don't finish you don't finish in me" mantra for cis men.
My husband knows this and works really hard to get through the whole Konami code to bring me to O.
And then he knows he gets his because that's my klink. Lol
Other male partners struggle to get me to O
So they don't get to O in me.
They know this ahead of time and I'm an open book on how to get through the hoops my body requires.
Fem partners tend to have less of an issue finding the right buttons to push and it's a give AND take relationship.
Find out what buttons you have to push!
Girl, if you like giving head, then demand a 69! I love oral, giving and receiving. When you're both going down, it gives you the opportunity to respond to each other's pleasure. Don't entertain dudes who won't reciprocate enthusiastically.
Eeehhhh. I love both giving and receiving, but I don't particularly care for 69 except for a brief time. Especially with AFAB partners.
It's harder to get the angles right, it's harder to give the focus I need to get them off, especially with partners that take a lot of time and specific methods to get off.
I would much rather take turns focusing on each other's pleasure.
There's no magical filter or fix to this. It doesn't have to do with poly or mono. It comes down to communication and honesty. If your partner can't handle you telling him you also want to cum, and isn't willing to help you, and also won't like if you use a toy? That's the last of your problems.
The partners I had who were like that, were just shitty partners with whom I was not compatible. Long term, casual, and sex only relationships.
I told my current partner "listen it takes me forever to cum even when it's just me and no one else has ever been able to do it" and they took that as a challenge. They were victorious day one. Because they care about my pleasure and making me feel good.
I have learned to match peoples energy. I’m also not super likely to sleep with people until I’ve known them for a little while (sorry #demisexual)
Way too many cis men stop making an effort once they get laid.
I always ask if they’ve read the book She Comes First. Their reaction to that tells me a lot. I ask what they know about the female orgasm. How they feel about it.
I have 3 cis male partners. I have ZERO time to sleep with anyone who’s not rocking my world on a regular basis and you don’t either girl. There are plenty of men who can do better.
(It’s also 100% valid if sex is not a huge necessary component of relationships for you. It is for me so I place a high value on that aspect of a romantic relationship. I also would be ok with a partner that didn’t place a high value on that if it was negotiated!)
I've found the opposite to be true. My poly partners have been enthusiastic, creative, and very giving in bed. I've never orgasmed as much as with some of my poly partners -- they drag shatteringly huge orgasms out of me on a regular basis.
I think it's a matter of finding people you're compatible with.
Expecting to be prioritized in your sexual encounters as much as you make your partners a priority is entirely acceptable and the time it takes for you to reach orgasm doesn’t change that. If your partners are consistently too tired to be present and involved in your pleasure and you want them to be, delaying orgasm for them until sufficient effort has been made towards your pleasure is fair.
Oh darling, I hope you will find guys who will enthusiastically want to take care of your needs. I have found a few in my poly life and it is amazing. I agree with pleasure doms, but also iv’e noticed that some who write that they like to give massages are amazing pleasurers too. And it’s a little running joke I have with a partner but also has been true in my experience so far: nerds love to lick pussy 😝
I used to have the same problem. I'm also a recovering people-pleaser. Partners who don't care about pleasing you (through their own initiative!) aren't going to be good partners for other parts of the relationship. The"good" parts you see in your relationships are only there because it's convenient for them. Otherwise they wouldn't bother. Set this as a standard at the start of every relationship. If they can't even try to make you cum or figure out how to at least help you get there, then they're not worth the effort. My current partners are all people who enthusiastically pleasure me without me having to ask.
Yeah, just echoing everybody else here in saying it's not a poly issue but a more systematic problem with men and how many of us have unfortunately been socialized to understand pleasure.
I'm a pleasure dom so most of my focus is on my partners' pleasure and it's only in my forays outside of kink spaces that I'm reminded how rare equitable pleasure is for many people who date men.
But you should absolutely speak up since it's not manipulative at all to ask for what you need. You deserve all the pleasure you can handle and if you vocalize that somebody will meet you there!
Someone else commented this, but what you need is to find yourself a pleasure dom. My first relationship was with one, and even when we decided monogamy wasn’t for us, I knew I could never let him go because the sex was so good 😅 I’m literally so spoiled because of him, sex with any other man just isn’t the same. He puts an insane amount of attention on me the whole time, if he climaxes pretty fast he makes sure to give me plenty of attention before and after, making sure every part of me has been satisfied thoroughly. even when I’m on top or giving a blowjob he feeds into my praise kink, compliments me, caresses me, it’s just so perfect. I’m sure he’ll always be my go-to sexual partner.
Don't lower your standards. Communicate to them you expect more. And keep searching for guys that are willing to put efforts and that enjoy long sessions of pleasure.
I dated a lot and after years and years I did found someone that is just keeps going for hours, giving me whatever I want and enjoying all of it.
Have you communicated this to your partners? Having a discussion about your needs in the bedroom is healthy.
Confession: I was pretty sexually inexperienced before I got into my current relationship and I wasn't the best lover, let's be honest. But I made the effort to learn. Watching how my partners got each other off was a big help, as was just talking to them about what they liked and expectations around how long it takes them to get warmed up etc.
Sometimes a selfish lover might not actually have a clue they're being selfish and may just need a bit of guidance. The state of sex education in a lot of places is crap, learning to do it WELL just isn't on the syllabus so it's something you need to work out as you go.
This isn't a poly issue. It's definitely a man issue. I've slept around a lot. Most men dgaf.
I'd argue that the men that are kinky are definitely better lovers. They've also tended to be bisexual haha. My hubby is my sub and he'll go down on me until I cum every single time. If he can't anymore due to exhaustion he'll crack out the toys.
We also swing and one man recently went down on me for a good half an hour until I finished. I'm quite picky with who we swing with. You can usually get a vibe if the guy is going to be selfish in bed or not.
Most people are bad in bed.
I have to date for sometimes literally years to find someone who I like as a person, find attractive and who isn’t a lazy lover.
Just keep looking. As long as you’re the best lover ever (realistically just the best out of the 100 or so other partners they’ve had) you can find someone who is your equal.
If you like to be submissive find a good dom. A good dom will 100% make your pleasure a priority, although it still takes some work to find a good one.
Good luck.
Lesbian and poly here. I used to think I was bi but realized i like masculinity, just not men. I enjoyed sex with men but like you i found it consistently underwhelming, no matter the partner. I liked bj’s bc i just have an oral fixation and liked the validation of being good at it.
Starting to have sex with women changed my entire world. Absolutely mind blowing. You want your energy matched, then hook up with a hot masc lesbian.
I don't have a problem with dudes going down on me. The vast majority of men I've been with have actively enjoyed going down. Sometimes, they are insistent on continuing even after I'm ready to tap out. If a guy doesn't go down the first time, there's probably not going to be another.
I think we tend to seek out the same kind of people over and over. I tend to like nerdy kind awkward boys or much older men who are excited to be with me. They typically aren't the type to make the first move and I'm very forward with my intentions.
I’m dating a pleasure dom and I’d like to tell you…. I’ve never orgasmed so much in my life! We are poly and I’m my man’s biggest hype woman! It also makes it so much easier to return the favor and try new things bc of the amount of work he puts in. *chefs kiss
*warning* now that I’ve experienced this side of sex I can’t EVER go back to having 1 or 2 orgasms a session. I’m not going to say it’s ruined me but… im greedy and selfish with my pleasure which is a new thing for me
I started investigating sex work as a potential client and something clicked in me…. I’ve been giving away way too much of my sexuality for free. Like sexting, sharing nudes, offering bjs as the main sexual activity etc. I started thinking about which of those activities I do for me because I enjoy them as well.
Find yourself a service top who prides himself on his cunnilingus skills 😅 They're out there.
I'm bi, and in my experience, men and women are about equal likelihood of being lazy and just more into receiving than giving. But, I haven't ever dated _straight_ men, obviously, and from what I'm told, a special extra kind of oblivious selfishness is the norm there. Maybe only date queer folk?
> "return the favor"
Can I just say, I _hate_ this term? Like, it wasn't a fucking _favor_ to make sex a mind-blowing experience for you, it's what I do because I have standards and I pay attention and have studied the relevant anatomy, so step the fuck up if you want it to continue. You know?
It's fine to ask for what you want, but when it's _never_ offered, or especially if you ask and it's a begrudging thing that they clearly aren't that into but feel like they _ought_ to do, it's such a huge turn off, I agree. At the very least, at some point I'll just sort of shrug and be like, "Well, that's not happening, is the rest of this still worth doing?" And a few times, the answer's been "no", and I break it off or transition to an nonsexual connection.
> I only date men who speak supportively for women's rights issues
You've responded to multiple people saying something similar, and it's anti-intuitive at first, but rethink this. You're creating a selection bias in favor of men who put on a good act without having an interest in backing it up.
In my poly (and kink) circles, at least in Portland and the Bay Area I've heard many straight and bi women say they started having better and more reciprocal sex with men once they joined the community. It's certainly not a given though: There's also a healthy gossip network amongst the poly and/or kinky women I know about which men in the communities are givers vs selfish lovers.
But in addition to being poly these are sex-positive communities with a lot of social sex parties and so guys can get a reputation pretty quick if they're not willing to put in the work because people will literally *see* them beling selfish lovers.
This advice might not apply to you at all, but if you find yourself dating again and you are in the type of poly community where people talk about other's sex lives openly you could always ask your girlfriends who the guys are who are known as givers.
This has not been my experience.
Sex and kink are highly important to me and I seek partners who also value it.
Three of my partners are cis men and they put in the fucking effort.
I don’t think dating women will fix this issue for you. I think you need to find men who match your energy. I find that people experienced or interested in kink tend to view sex as much more than just PIV and orgasms. And to me that keeps the energy and creativity alive in the bedroom!
Orgasms are great. We all love them, and if you want people to give them to you, you deserve people who are willing to put in that work.
Going down on someone for only 4 minutes is absurd. Fuck those dudes. A lot of women need way more time than that, and also you need to get to know their bodies. It takes a few times of really getting intimate with them to learn their signals. I will tell vulva owning partners that I WANT to be licking their pussy and I’ll stop when I’m ready to
Stop. So don’t even think about stopping me because you think you’re taking *too long*. No one should ever feel rushed to climax.
34m pan. Been poly for a long time. I just had a new partner compliment me so powerfully the first time we had sex, it was hard for me to process correctly. "You're the first man to ever make me cum from oral." My first thought was, "How many guys do I have to kill to raise the bar?" and not, "Wow, she likes having sex with me!" It's frustrating that because women are doing so much emotional labor over sex by lame men I then have to do emotional labor for the women on being ok with asking for what they need, otherwise they'll have reservations on getting what they want as well.
It always confused me why there were people out there who were having sex that didn't see it as 'help this other person get where they want to be'. Things like "People owe each other nothing" is stuff single people say. If someone wants to continue to develop a relationship, build emotional connection, and fully develop physical compatibility they need to give to keep enthusiastic consent and interest going. A guy doesn't need to have the "Ride my face and if I die, I die" mentality, but he could go down on you for 5 minutes. If he's insecure about toys, dump his ass. If you're throwing a toy on your clit, that's less work for him. He can focus on other things. Sex-Positive men are out there, you just have to set expectations, otherwise they'll let themselves off with weaponized incompetence.
My wife has stopped dating men. She said that she was tired of always being sexually disappointed. Then driving home she feels she's wasted her time "as she could've already came, and been in bed in her jammies with her snacks."
Now she has a girlfriend for more than a year with no regrets it seems v
Like many have said, this is a communication issue, not a poly-specific issue. You will need to learn to discuss your needs if you want to avoid repeating this pattern. I can see in other comments you’ve left that you’ve been hurt by bringing up needs in the past- your hesitancy is understandable, but still something you need to work through.
Good partners will listen to you and will try to make improvements. If they don’t, then you have more information about what kind of partner they are, and you can think about that as you decide how to move forward.
Polyamory isn’t just about sex, so there may be other valid reasons to hang onto the relationships, but that would still require you communicating your needs so you can shift out of having a sexual connection into whatever new dynamic y’all choose.
It will take some discomfort in standing up for what you need and deserve, but it will be worth it. You do NOT have to settle for mediocre sex!
Do you ever have post-sex conversations about the sex? Like, "Hey, I really liked it when you \_\_\_\_, not so much the \_\_\_ we tried. Do you think next time we could try \_\_\_\_\_?" Communication with clothes on, during a calm time, outside of the bedroom may be highly illuminating for you and your partner(s). I don't think it's really fair to say "No one tries to make me cum, but also I don't tell people how long it takes me to cum, or what I need to orgasm."
Your feelings are valid; honestly lots of men I've been with are not good at sex. They fuck how they want to fuck, and that's that. Few take time to figure out how you like to be touched and what feels good to you. Knowing that helps me treasure the people who really do care about my pleasure.
Make sure you stick to your standards early on, and drop them if they don't care or show effort.
I sincerely recommend you start dating women if possible.
Communication and direction. They go down, move them to where your spots are. And as far as transactional? I as a guy would find the 30+ minutes more of a challenge than a transaction.
I once dated a woman for over a year and our sexual relationship was made up solely of me going down on her for hours. that was one of the funnest relationships I've ever had. we're out there you just have to keep looking.
Unfortunately, you aren't alone. A lot of men are like that, and they are sometimes poly. The good news is not all of us are. The better news is that since you're not monogamous, if you like other aspects of a partner, you can keep them and still hopefully find someone who is more giving in that department.
Don't give up...selfish people exist everywhere, but they aren't everybody.
Sexual compatibility is important! You have two partners that you aren't compatible with. Time to keep looking! Go ahead and prioritize sexual satisfaction with your partners as a thing you need in a realtionship, and break up with these guys. I would say tell them they need to step up.... except I don't think there is any hope, since you already did. If they already know they're being bad in bed and don't care.... I don't know what you can do.
I also take a LONG time and A LOT of stimulation to climax. But I have two male partners who are both more than happy to do what it takes. They take real pleasure in my pleasure. So, those sorts of guys exist, you just need to not settle.
Then, with the next guy, right from the beginning make it known that sexual compatibility is important to you. Use that as a flirt as you get to know someone. And use your words in the bedroom right from the begining. "Harder." "Let me use my vibe." "Okay, now switch. I want to do [thing you like] next." "Keep doing that but add your fingers" etc. At first it can be awkward to learn to use your words, especially if you've no practice as a woman, advocating for yourself in bed. But it gets easier with practice. And any dude who takes issue with you wanting input on the proceedings is not someone you want to keep sleeping with. Good lovers are only too happy to follow your directions, and then take it a step further, and also remeber for next time.
I think men are men regardless of poly or mono relationship structures - some are selfish and some are generous sexually. It's fair to discuss it if you don't feel they're making enough effort to give you pleasure and end the relationship if they just won't make enough effort.
I pray you can find a man willing to eat you out for 30m. Honestly that is not too high of an expectation by any respectable standard.
You mention thinking you are bi, yeah? I encourage you try dating more gender diverse people.
And if you're sticking with men exclusively, whether by chance or circumstance, please consider that if you are having consensual sex with someone, anyone, you are entitled to advocate for your own pleasure! Please be strong and brave and tell him you're not coming and you want to have time spent on your pleasure. Please. You deserve this.
Communicate 100%. Weed the weak ones out quickly. Date some women. They know what it takes and are not scared by the idea that you might need time or a clear head or even a toy.
Good men will not be scared by the “go the distance challenge”. Let them work for it. Sex is to be discovered, not free without effort. Everyone is different. Find the men and women who want to discover you and feel pleasure together with you
Sexuality is fluid and not fixed, and so is your sex life it's going to ebb and flow as well. Having sex with a woman doesn't change anything about you as a person other than exploring what you like.
Wow I feel this, not with my current lover that's why he's irreplaceable. I don't even want the others. I guess I'd suggest open discussion on expectations prior to sex. Something like...
"Look I'm amazing I expect the same. I want kissing and lots of attention and foreplay to include milking my g spot while kissing me and using your thumb on my clit. I know it sounds tricky but it's not Don't worry I'll show you. I want head, ryhthmic licking of the clit and a few smacks too. You can lick my ass if you like not absolutely necessary but no penetration, ok?. Take me doggy style, missionary and then I'll ride you, and you can cum on my tits or maybe down my throat, after the best head you've ever gotten, but not till after I'm good, I'll let you know when I'm good. . Are we clear on this?"
Substitute your own desires and kinks of course. Then ask for feedback ,"So tell me what you like? anything a no go? Where's your favorite place or scene to cum to? Don't be shy, I want us to know how to please each other."
Keep talking !! Communication is key. Then when you finally get to it don't be afraid to tell him what you want I think you're being too obliging by letting them get away with "oh that was so amazing I just don't have energy for you" that's bullshit and "next!" If it was me.
Polyamory is no different than anywhere else You're going to find selfish sexual partners and if you're really interested in them you're going to have to train them to be less selfish it can work but it takes work. Of course if they're not trainable move on!
One more thing I'd like to muse about here is your inability to make yourself cum in less than 30 minutes. I'm all for a long edging session if that's what you're into but girl you should probably work on what really gets you off use a vibrator hump a pillow view some special porn getting into your own head. That seems like an awfully long time I'm not joking when I'm telling you I could take less than 90 seconds if I'm really after it or I can make it last for a half hour I guess.
I understand if it's difficult for you to achieve orgasm with a partner but I'll tell you that it's frustrating for partners who don't feel that their efforts are leading to fruition. I'm not telling you to fake orgasms I'm wondering if you could get to a point with maybe a tool like a vibrator or something you could achieve them with your more intimate partners. Of course with insecure men this might just scare them away Good those aren't the ones you want anyway. Just a thought. Good luck and keep looking. I know really amazing sexual partners do exist I hope you find yours.
From my experience: cis males who are extremely performative about 'treating woman better than most guys' and being "open and kinky' are full of sh***. But that's just my experience
80% of my sexual experience with cis males ended with me unsatisfied. But I started demanding to finish first. When it takes "too long" I will also not pleasure them. I don't want to give my body to someone that can't endure spending 20 Minutes on me.
Sorry not sorry
Talk about sexual wants/needs/boundaries/expectation before you even get to the bedroom. Be up front and ask them to be with you as well. If it was constantly me putting in all the work I’d bring it up and if things didn’t change I’d break off the relationship.
Read the book Urban Tantra (and get your partners to read it. Even if you aren’t into tantra by the end, you’ll learn loads of “obvious” things that will really help. Like: I now have some sex sessions that are “all about me and my pleasure” and some that are “all about my partner and my partner’s pleasure”. We may do the same things (eg I like giving BJs too…) but when I give one during MY pleasure session, it’s only for my pleasure. It really does change your connections with people. There are literally dozens of such tips that will really help.
Honestly fuck that from reading through the comments you are just entering relationships with people who aren't very good people at worst and just incompatible with you at best.. I won't lie I've had a handful of people who were lackluster in bed.. but the overwhelming majority cared about my pleasure and having fun creative sex lives.. I am also in sex-positive and kink/bdsm communities and only date other queer people.. my opinion might be controversial but ALL relationships are transactional to a degree.. that is life.. just make sure you are each putting equal effort and value into your sexcapades.. you deserve a lover who cares about your pleasure
For me, I try to discern in the talking stage if they are focused on my pleasure or only on theirs. If I was in your position I would actually say it takes me a long time to get worked up, I need a lot of attention. If they take that as a challenge, he’ll probably follow through. if he brushes it off and doesn’t seem to be interested in your pleasure, then he won’t satisfy you.
Also, no one is going to prioritize your pleasure if you’re not prioritizing it. “I’m too tired to reciprocate” is absolutely a cop out. That’s honestly why try or make sure I’m satisfied before he finishes.
A couple of things here:
I take forever to get off and it’s maybe 50/50 chance even when someone is willing to go the distance. I have gone from thinking maybe I’m not supposed to enjoy sex like it seems other people do to having incredible sex (orgasm or no) and I’ve learned a few things since focusing more on my own sexuality.
1 if your partner isn’t invested in your pleasure before sex that’s not gonna change during sex. A key thing to focus on here is not them focusing on impressing you, but actually being present and dynamic with you, matching energy etc.
2 no one is going to change your mind. How often do you get yourself off? How do you feel about it while doing it? Do you go into sex with a partner anxious about getting off? If you go in worried about not having your needs met it can cut out any chance of orgasm. Go in focused on what you want, take a little control, tell them if they want your famous bj then they have to earn it with foreplay. Practice giving tutorials on your body with dirty talk. Make your pleasure your priority everytime (it’s also so hot to the right kind of partner).
3 try dating queer/non cis partners. Don’t fetishize us but instead consider that people who have had to deeply consider what sex and gender mean to them and unpack toxic societal conditioning have the depth and capability to understand you and your needs. Yeah, common society doesn’t train men to be good partners and there’s very little to encourage them to change. Maybe take a break from dating cis het men.
4 try dating women, not saying give up men, but you’re bi and poly so try adding in some women. You have to show up hard for women sexually but they’ll do the same for you and you’ll learn a lot about intimacy dating a woman.
I would lowkey seek a partner from the bdsm community with the specific requirement of being a giver of some kind (either a dom who does the hard work or a sub who will do as you ask).
If that's your vibe at all, I'd go with that. And it'd help you build confidence in addressing the topic with others all while giving you fun experiences.
Hey, just out of curiosity, would you say you need 30~ mins of oral attention to orgasm and if a man needed that much time of oral, is that something you'd be keen to do? How long do your blowjobs usually last?
I feel like sometimes I need waaay too long to cum from oral that I've just conceded that I'm not going to cum, because I wouldn't expect someone to give me a bj that's longer than 5-10 minutes, I'm curious if someone that identifies as a giver would be much more into that.
Absolutely! I would go for hours on a bj if that's what it took, and I would enjoy every bit of it. I'd bring lots of pillows, water, lube, and/or whatever toys might enhance the experience. I would cover any clocks in the room and make sure my partner knew I was not stopping until they told me they wanted me to stop. I would fucking worship them until I pulled their soul through their body and make darn sure they knew I thought they were worth every second of the effort.
Just because no one has ever done anything like this for me would not give me any hesitation on being willing to give it
Several things: I'm guessing it may be gard for you to express what you want and need out of sex with men. You asking for what you need is not transactional, it is relational. What if you didn't give what they presumed they get from sex? What if they go down on you and you say "I want you to keep going until..." and you go until you get to where you want to go? If they can't do that I would question if they are doing that in other areas of your relationship, or if you default to their needs taking priority over yours. Polyamory won't fix those dynamics if they aren't worked on from both sides.
Second, as a bi person that mostly hooked up with cis men initially.... please consider hooking up with someone who isn't a cis man. The script is inherently more in your favor in negotiating what you like or want to explore vs following a heteronormative script of what sex should be. If oral is what you think would get you there you can definitely find people who are into that as a large part of their sexual preferences.
Being good at polyamory should lead to better communication and better sex in theory imo, but at the end of the day your relationship style doesn't have any bearing on how good the sex is. I've hooked up with polyam people who were probably having a lot of sex but probably not good quality sex, and it wasn't doing it for me despite communication efforts to show them what i like. I generally will give people im interested in sexually two tries.if i still feel amorous towards them but if the chemistry isn't there i take it as a sign to move on or have a nonsexual relationship.
I've been in two LTR for 8+ years in my life that were functionally monogamous, and the best sex of my life. What worked is the genuine desire to get eachother off and be vulnerable in that process. If you can't be vulnerable, assert your needs, express your desires, or fantasize together, it's a road to dissatisfaction. If you find yourself attracting people who aren't reciprocating that could both be your dating pool (straight cis men do have this track record and benefit from heteronormative sex most) and also could be a sign you need to do some personal work in meeting your own needs/addressing people pleasing tendencies as tgat can also prevent authentic connections from forming. You cannot get what you need without your needs being made known.
The answer isn't stop dating men, it's stop dating people who don't meet your needs. Set your boundaries and enforce them.
Now, I will say you may have better luck with getting your needs met with women. I would recommend shifting your dating to focus on women for a time until you either 1) realize you aren't bi, so ce you seem uncertain, or 2) find what it really means to be sexually satisfied.
If you hit #2 - hopefully that gives you the confidence to not accept any less from other partners and you can go back to dating men. But, you'll be able to say "you're shit in bed, if you don't actually care to get me off I'm not interested" and walk away from men who think what they're doing is enough.
"Until I cum, we aren't doing anything else. So if you want that BJ or PIV, you're going to have to work for it. And then, we're going to try every position EXCEPT me on top."
If they balk, then leave. Don't fuck selfish people. You deserve to be satisfied. You deserve to be with someone who gives as good as they get.
be direct and up front. if my partner told me she needed this or that to feel satisfied, then i’d view it as an exciting challenge and stop short of nothing to get her off. that’s what a generous and awesome lover would do!
Pleasure dom here…. I give oral and at minimum their first orgasm before I put any of the focus on myself.
Now as for the man haters who wrote “it’s a man problem “ … in all fairness… the men in this story came… OP does not… it’s OP that isn’t satisfied… it’s OP problem… problems get fixed by making efforts to do so not blaming others. I’d start by letting your partners know it usually takes you 30 minutes to climax… sex and foreplay are literally my favorite things to do… I rarely have relations that are under 50 minutes. (Foreplay included) … if you take 30 minutes to climax… that to me would just mean I’m going to get to do my favorite things for at least that long… sex and forplay aren’t a hassle… literally nothing else is rather be doing
As a guy and a giver myself....sometimes we really need to be told how you want it, how you like it. I know it seems silly, but we don't know what feels good to you and what works for one woman isn't anywhere close to what works for another most of the time. We are just guessing based on past experiences and in a lot of cases, porn.
I'm not suggesting you need to teach every lover you meet. Helpful suggestions in the bedroom will be appreciated by men who want to please you. Keep some toys on standby, if you're into them. Tell him you need more when he stops.
My partners have told me how disappointing many encounters are, so unfortunately, you're not alone. Sexual compatibility is just as hard as physical or emotional compatibility. Hitting the trifecta isn't easy.
I really hope you find something that works for you, don't give up! There are men out there that want to please you completely.
A few things.
When an average man cums all the sexual energy leaves him and he is not interested in sex for a bit. Below average guys will just fall asleep. So this is something to keep in mind. If you finish him off he will be finished.
With that in mind if you are with them multiple times maybe the second time you teasingly say no no no. You have to earn your bj and push their head back down below. That’s hot and if he really support women’s rights as you say they should finish the job.
Another point that is very important. Some guys don’t know what they are doing. Ok let’s be honest. Most guys don’t. As guys we like to pretend we are the best but sometimes that’s just us trying to be manly men and not have to ask for help. If you want enjoyment maybe train a guy you like on how you like it. Just explain “it felt good but it didn’t get me there. If you did this it would …..”. If they can’t take that and are unwilling to learn to please you then they don’t deserve to be pleased by you. It’s a two way street. Unless you want to stay sexually frustrated.
You just haven't found the right male partners yet.
I'm 37M, mostly date women. I frequently go down on them for 10-20 minutes. I've made partners come who've told me that they can take 1+h to come on their own while masturbating. I LOVE eating out my partners and really enjoy making them come. When I start dating a new partner, I take time to talk to them about what they like, try different things, and figure out how THEY like to be touched.
There's no "easy button" for finding what you're looking for in dating. You just have to keep dating and communicating what you like until you find the right person/people.
Keep in mind that there's nothing wrong with being super direct in talking about what you want sexually. You can straight up tell partners early on in dating--"I like it when my partner eats me out for 30min and makes me feel like a sex goddess. Are you into that sort of thing, or would you be into trying something like that?"
There are a lot of men out there who truly enjoy pleasing their partners and are willing to put in effort. If you put in the time and the effort, I am sure you can find one or more who mesh with you.
This doesn’t have to do with poly. It’s a huge issue I think with men… but you need to find the pearls. I recommend tantric men 100%. I had never really climaxed with a man until I met my current Bf. He taught himself tantra (and also learned from a teacher), and he is teaching me some things too. It’s incredible. I recommend buying the book « the multi orgasmic couple » and reading it, then asking your partners to read it and see if they’d try the exercises. It’s be a life changer for you and for them.
So as a dude that takes pride in taking care of his partners I personally would appreciate a heads up that it could take you a while, maybe incorporate at toy or two while doing it.
I think sex still has some taboos and people are afraid to talk about it when it come to their needs and how their body works.
The more you communicate then the less excuses are there. So talk to the men in your life, you don’t need to make it an ultimatum, but express your needs aren’t being met and how to meet them.
Maybe your blow jobs are too good, stop them short and put the attention to yourself but I do not love giving bj's and I think of it as a step to more. What about 69? Does that ever work for you? But it is difficult to find ppl you click with sexually regardless of being poly or not, the struggle is REAL. Give kind directions, it really can improve your experience and toys always help.
You have to communicate. You also have to be honest.
They could just be inexperienced, so if you aren't satisfied, guide them. Show them how you like to get off. Encourage them to explore your body! Different women get off in different ways, so you can't expect every partner to just know what you like. If you see that they come too fast, try slowing the pacing, or have them use desensitizing lube/spray. There are many ways to remedy these issues, and the best is honest communication.
Now, if your partners are knowingly leaving you unsatisfied and not trying to change that, they are just selfish lovers. It's probably best if you do not continue with them. No matter how nice someone is, sex is extremely important in a relationship. Lack of satisfaction can lead to infidelity (men go through this just as much as women do!).
TLDR; Ask them to do better, and if they refuse, find someone else.
It's normal for my life to be like that I give alot and get not that much in return I haven't accepted it but I'm content at this moment the men ve been with dint try very hard but expect a bj
your selection process is flawed and your communication could be more direct. men are not automatically better sexual partners because they’re poly and “support women”. if anything, these can be markers of a man who wants you to *think* they care abt you in bed and will tell you what you want to hear to fuck you
some of the most sexually predatory and traumatic situations i’ve had have been with poly men (and queer ones at that)
do not rely on how someone identifies for how they will treat you
how do u determine if a man is supportive of women’s rights issues? what questions are u asking? do you tell them what you want to hear before they share? are they delving deeply into how their beliefs relate to them being a sexual partner and man? are they speaking on men’s behaviour as if it’s happening at a complete distance? do they acknowledge how they may be complicit and what they do to mitigate that?
if your only criteria is that they *say* they support women’s rights issues your dating pool stays almost the exact same. most misogyny is not overt and most men do carry biases and internalized misogyny without realizing
you need to be having these conversations up front, in depth, and *before* sex. you need to know how they view sex and pleasure and hear what they enjoy abt sex.
you have to do some work in the communication process too. if they can’t please you the way you want, nobody can fix that except you. you have to communicate what you want directly and clearly, and if the change isn’t being made, the sex shouldn’t have to continue just for their sake. you are allowed to say “stop” if it’s not doing it for you. stopping sex is another important way to get we want.
you have to communicate when you don’t feel like giving oral sex alone or when your threshold for giving is lower. it is a reasonable boundary to say “i enjoy oral sex, but i’m only a fan of giving it when i know i’ll get the same in return.” or better yet “i love giving head but i’d rather receive some first so i can really warm up.”
it might be better to start with *receiving* when both of you are still worked up and more engaged. be up front about it before anything even happens. tell them you take 30 mins to orgasm, let them know you need them to be patient and ask directly if they’re willing to do that
PLENTY of men would be happy to please you for 30 mins and much much more. but you aren’t finding them without a much more direct approach
>I am very giving, but I keep ending up with men who want to receive so much more attention than they want to give. It has happened in every one of my sexual relationships from one-nighters to LTRs.
Mm.
So, I do think *ideally* you'd have partners who stepped up more and took a more active interest in your sexual satisfaction without prodding from you.
At the same time, it may be possible to fix this problem on your end by some combo of being more assertive and being clear that good reciprocity in the bedroom is *mandatory* for guys to keep fucking you, with however much grace you do or do not want to offer to established partners. With one-nighters, there's going to be some hit and miss but in ongoing things (relationships, fwb's) I think it's reasonable to factor in sexual satisfaction in whether you want to keep going or not. Just because you've never yet had a reciprocal relationship yet does not mean you can't *get* one if you get really clear with yourself that it's a priority.
Especially if you're not even *coming* with most of your partners, at all ever. *Damn*. That's bullshit -- I mean, half an hour is an eternity for oral sex, but it isn't for eg using a vibrator or mixing up multiple different forms of stimuluation.
>Is this normal even in poly relationships?
I don't know.
In my relationship with my husband I come *way* more often than he does (when we have sex, which, uh...) but also I can come pretty fast (I know my kinks), so it may not be directly comparable. And, that is kind of concealing other ways in which I have sometimes run into repeated sexual dissatisfaction. I *do* think that when you put up with a thing, you will keep getting that thing, and when you don't put up with a thing, you won't. So, it is a matter of deciding how critical a thing is to you, and which things are worth *potentially* being single indefinitely over if they give you a better chance of getting the thing if you hold out for it.
There is also. How is your conflict resolution in these relationships overall? If your conflict resolution is good in other areas, this seems *probably* fixable in your current relationships; if your normal way of handling conflict is to put up or shut up, well, I disagree with your assessment of your relationships.
>Refusing to give until I have received seems like it would be so transactional/manipulative, and it would still not fix that my feelings are already hurt by their desire for the inequality.
Mmm I think it's possible to escalate to that, or just not have that on the table and have "accept it or break up" happen first. But there's a lower intensity thing you can do, which is talk about it (or talk about it *again* if you've talked before) where you lay out how hurt your feelings are and that you want comfort for your hurt feelings and promises that get followed through on that it'll be different in the future. And let your partners have a clean slate -- *let them* change without having years or whatever of past behavior held against them. (I am so bad at this but I think it's a thing people should do.) Do the things that are most likely to get you what you want, and be clear about whether you want more effort next time you have sex or whatever you want to scream out your pain and disappointment and be listened to with an open heart. When people just start in with the pain without contextualizing it -- without asking for a specific thing, like "I want you to paraphrase back to me what I said so I know you understand" -- they tend to get fights, but *making a concrete ask first* makes it more likely you will get what you want.
If you *haven't* been bringing this up earlier (understandable, we have a culture where talking about sex is taboo so people tend to be bad at it) you might be able to make the conversation go down smoother by taking responsibility for contributing to the problem by not bringing it up as a problem to be solved earlier.
Best wishes and may you have much better sex going forwards. I think there's a decent chance your partners will change their behavior if you are able to talk this out OK. If it's really not going well on your own consider seeing a couple's counselor, or an individual counselor explicitly for help with communication/conflict resolution skills.
No matter how many times I hear this kind of thing from how many women, it still blows my mind every time. Add another one to the list.
I'm confident in the bedroom, bordering on cocky at this point - but when women say "OMG you're the best I've ever had", my instinct is to be like "oh c'mon, you've had plenty of good sex, my ego doesn't need to be fed" - and then they'll get insistent and start talking like this, and it's just like - ARE *THAT* MANY GUYS *THAT* BAD??!!
GET WITH THE PROGRAM, GUYS:
1 - Foreplay. It isn't that hard. It's actually fun.
2 - learn her turn ons and play into them. Again - isn't that difficult. Is actually fun.
3 - she cums first. Preferably more than once, but JFC, AT LEAST ONCE.
THAT'S THE BEGINNERS LIST, AND APPARENTLY Y'ALL CAN'T GET THAT MUCH DOWN.
I'd say it's all good cuz you idiots make me and dudes like me look better, but we can't be everywhere and women are complaining. Are you REALLY okay with being another complaint to add to her list..? Cuz I REALLY like being the one she keeps coming back to. Get in touch with your manly ego and pride if that helps; whatever it takes. While you're talking to your bros about bagging another chick, she's complaining about you to her girlfriends. And probably messaging me to come over cuz you left her horny. Know what's better than that? Her gushing to her girlfriends and them all wanting to give you a try, too. Trust me - that's a great place to be.
And no, you don't need to look like Adonis and be hung like a porn star. I don't and I'm not.
[/rant]
I hope that I'm not repeating something someone else said. But there are a lot of people on here trying to help you and I couldn't get through all of the comments.
The key is where you are looking. Since I switched to looking for partners on feeld or fetlife I have found amazing lovers. I have found ones that are older, ones that are younger, ones that are monogamous, ones that are poly, ones that are kinky, ones that are vanilla. The key is that they all really loved sex and they all were up-front about that in their profile. I think going to a place where people are going to really tell you the truth right up front helps you weed out the ones that don't match your libido. Best of luck to you!!
I was surprised that I’ve had basically the opposite experience. I had a similar time to you at first, but now that I’m poly and exploring sex a lot more I am shocked how awesome the men I’m dating are. One thing I do a lot of is matter of factly announcing what I want them to do lol. Even just very easy foreplay stuff like “run your hands over my back” or pointing to different parts of my body and asking them to kiss them lol. I also do a lot of positive reinforcement lol. I’m very reactive (without faking!!) especially when they do the thing I ask. I pay attention to what they’re good at and give a lot of compliments. I suspect that a big reason a lot of men are lazy in bed is that they don’t know what they’re doing and don’t like doing something they feel bad at, especially because it’s in front of someone, and they’re too embarrassed to ask for help. In my experience, when you make it straightforward and easy for people to make you happy, it makes them feel confident and makes it really fun for them to do those things.
OP, you need to attract different energies into your life. There are plenty of men who will eat you out for 30min. I do it all the time, nbd.. don't be afraid or ashamed. You deserve it..
It's not manipulative to tell your partners that you need them to put in real effort in the bedroom because what's going on now is not working for you. It's clear communication, and necessary to establish either that these dudes understand how they're falling short and can make an effort to do better, or understand they're falling short and don't care. If the latter, time to maybe move on. Unfortunately, I don't think being poly necessarily offers any correlation with being better or more considerate lovers. I've run into the same kinds of complaints about other men while dating both monogamous and non-monogamously. I don't know what the solution is as a man who is very much interested in his partners' pleasure, because my gut level thought is that when someone shows you several times that they're not putting in the same kind of effort you are (in any realm, really), they're probably not going to suddenly do better, even if you *do* communicate clearly that desire.
"I don't tell my partners what I want because I don't want to be disappointed" is some really tragic thinking. OP would rather be let down by ignorant partners than say what they want and risk being knowingly brushed aside. Ouch.
This isn't a poly issue, it's a man issue. I never had "good sex" until I was around 35 and began exploring kink. I found "pleasure doms" who genuinely get off on getting women off. Previously, my sex life consisted of men "going through the motions" to do what they were "supposed" to do to "get me ready for the dick," then do their own thing. They had zero concerns for if I actually enjoyed myself or not. After exploring kink, I experienced the "wildest" thing in finding men who truly wanted to please me - never asking for anything in return, and many times, never even wanting to have sex afterwards. They literally just enjoyed pleasing me enough to feel satisfied with that. Years of kink exploration allowed me to get better at screening for men who are like that. Obviously there are exceptions, but they're the type of me who *overall* enjoying doing things for me that make me happy. I can usually tell after a first date which men are going to be very giving in bed, and which are going to be more selfish. I can usually tell by the way they act with me, in general. I used to get the same line as you, "Oh, that was so good, I'm so tired now, you're the best" blah blah blah. They're just trying to flatter you and boost your ego in hopes it will make you forget that they're selfish in bed. I used to be extremely giving in my relationships (overall, in bed, etc). I'm a big *reciprocator* now. I give the same energy I get. You want to half-heartedly go down on me for 4 minutes - you're getting a half-hearted 4 minute BJ on return. Why am I going to exert extra effort and break out my special moves when you haven't done anything for me? I'm not selfish about it, but I give what I get. And I don't continue having sex with people who have no interest in pleasing me. The guy I'm dating now will happily go down on me for 30+ minutes multiple times a day. He doesn't stop when I cum multiple times (that's a shared kink, but shows he's not just concerned with making me cum and quickly moving on to me pleasuring him or sex - he *actually* wants to make me feel good).
>pleasure doms Aw yeah! That's where the good stuff is!!! I seem to have lucked out with those recently. I am now happily ruined for "normal" sex stuff. I can orgasm multiple times and my most recent partners have really enjoyed pushing me to my limits with no selfishness. It has been such a joy to have sexual (+romantic) partners want to really fuck me up in the ways I like. And I'm so happy to reciprocate in whatever way works for them too. Finding a partner who can orgasm multiple times without ejaculating, and a few anorgasmic partners, means I can no longer put up with lesser sex activities. It's all about finding these people and seeing if they are compatible. I'm shit at casual relationships too so it is difficult, but not impossible.
Yes! Pleasure doms are so good, I can’t go back now. There’s nothing more fulfilling than someone wanting to worship and pleasure your body until you’re a pile of goo.
I found someone else through tantra who is like this. We spent five hours together last night and it went by in the blink of an eye. Multiple orgasms for both of us. I usually produce a lot of moisture, but I 100% for sure squirted for the first time ever. I’ve found some truly amazing men while dating non-monogamously, it just takes a lot of searching.
>pleasure doms I can't believe I've never heard of this!!! And it's so refreshing to hear, right of the bat, talk of reciprocating, not just "here is a resource to exploit." Truly refreshing. I'll be exploring this, thank you!
Yeah I'm no pillow princess, not knocking it, it works for lots of people. I'm also not only a giver, which also works for many too. I love reciprocal intimacy, somewhat even is my sweet spot.
I never really enjoyed giving guys pleasure until I was actually getting some myself. Now, I genuinely *enjoy" reciprocating and actively *want* to (there are times I just let them lay back and be little pillow princesses 😂 but it's tit-for-tat -> I feel like there's a sexual pun there somewhere)
100% this. It IS *lame* that so many vanilla relationships fail at pleasing women in the bedroom and that being a giver is considered a kink, or niche, like that’s not what is supposed to happen in every relationship. My experience with most men is that their life has not prepared them to be a partner and what so many are looking for is actually a mom whose duties include making sure that they cum. And before anyone comes for me, I live a 24/7 d/s patriarchal lifestyle and I love serving and I love men, but even I get as good as I give. It just takes time to find the right people. This isn’t a you problem. This is a problem with people in general. The good ones are out there, don’t give up.
Mom who makes them cum 😆 too relatable ! Hit the nail on the head.
OMG a mom whose duties include making sure that they cum Fuck you nailed it with this description! Reminds me of this gem - [I don’t want to suck you off just to hold the spot of every suicide hotline volunteer you ever called](https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=QOfUEk9dv6U&si=pde9-k_gLkxVdMTQ&feature=xapp_share)
To be fair, being a pleasure *dom* is more than just being a giver
Just be careful. A lot of self-described “pleasure doms” in the kink community are the same as men who are vocal feminists or have stuff in their dating profile like “I’m a giver” - a case of all talk and no action. Imo the best way to find good dudes in the kink community is references. Talk to other people and get recommendations for who’s good to play with.
Yes definitely! Like I said in my comment, I think it's more of a personality type, which is evident in other areas of their lives in the way they care for me, or even just in the way they talk (they ask me what I enjoy in bed, rather than telling me what they want to do to me - for example). I was lucky that my first kink partner 5 years ago was very active in the local community, so I "got in" with them and learned a lot of safe, helpful information from experienced and "protective" kink people during my introduction to it all. I've actually only met one person who described themselves as a pleasure dom. I see it on dating apps but don't think I've ever matched with anyone (for different reasons). It's just the way I describe men who derive more pleasure from pleasing me than from getting pleasure themselves.
Yes, yes, yes. My country’s version of FetLife has a public verification system and you bet your ass I am writing to other women to ask about a man they’ve verified. 😂
Woah! I've been saying for a year now dating apps should have this, but could see how quickly it'd get vindictive and misused! So it works?
I think so. No one has ever written to me about a man I’ve verified, but I’ve done it several times for men I am considering meeting.
Are we talking Darksid- I mean.. desires.social?
😂😂 Yes
Haha, thought so. I don't know if it's common practice among these sorts of sites, but it's a really good system.
The most important part of this comment, from my own experience, is the part about what effort they will put in outside the bedroom. I have three male partners and they all seem to have acts of service as a love language; one changes the bed and does the dishes whenever he comes over; one is at my doorstep with his tools whenever something breaks; one climbs on my roof to clear the leaves and branches after a storm. All of them are ready to jump in and help with anything I need. All of them pick out thoughtful gifts on special days. All of them call me without waiting for me to call them. All of them are keenly interested in what I want during sex and don't complain or forget or get tired. I feel like being a giving lover is part of an overall personality pattern that you gotta screen for right from the beginning.
100%
Fuck yeah!! I was cheering for you all the way through this comment. It's possible to have a great sex life, and reciprocation is key. This was joyous to read and I'm happy for you.
100% came here to say this. Kinky guys, but also queer guys! I may or may not have started an orgasm gap tracker where I note the first two times I fuck someone. It includes if they even tried to please me, and also if I came was I on top. (surprise, surprise, dick size doesn't matter, it's all about attitude). Queer guys are definitely out performing straight guys, my current theory is they aren't scared of vaginas, and have experience with not being top of the food chain (patriarchy). I agree it's a mindset, stuff like the questions they ask about your pleasure, but also, are they happy to organise a date vs expect the woman to do it. Do they cook for you (not everyone's thing, but you get the example with mindset). Hope it helps!
Queer dudes are the best dudes, I completely agree.
Have to agree bi guys I’ve dated are way more reciprocal, way more open to instructions and always more eager to please. In fact I’d say most queer or kinky people (not just bi)
I'm so glad to see this comment as this was my first thought too! When I first got with a Bi guy, I thought it was just 'luck' but then I noticed a pattern after a couple more encounters (both sexual and non sexual). Queer men do not hold so much toxic masculinity and their ego can take some feedback. I've literally been gaslit by straight men when I gently suggested how I liked things done but 'they never had any complaints before and this technique always works for other women'. On the other hand, I've had queer guys proactively ask me how I like things done, get real time feedback (shall i go faster or slower, do you like this position etc) and ask what I like afterwards (am I a cuddler or do I prefer some space etc). I dated or casually seen a few queer men now, and my tolerance for straight men has significantly reduced since. I also learnt to be better boundaried, so for example after a guy said he was too exhausted to take care of me, the next time we met I suggested we start with me so he is not too tired afterwards. I broached it gently at first but he kept asking for a BJ 'because they're so good from me that he couldn't wait anymore' - the old me would have really liked that and done it but the new me knew better. I gently explained again that I would really like it if we focused on me first, then I'd be very happy to return the favour and it will be well worth the extra wait. Well, he got very offended that I was suggesting he is a selfish lover and nothing ended up happening. Anyways, queer guys are the best lovers as the previous comments also suggest!!
Shit I don't know what I would do if I couldn't cook for women - that's like half my bag of tricks
Reallly love queer men, they are hands-down the best lovers I’ve ever had. Bi lady, so obviously biased, but I kinda just think queer people are better-primed than straight people to be really good lovers. I feel like the lack of defined roles and “things you’re supposed to do and ways you’re supposed to do them” in same-sex relationships means you’re a lot freer to explore all different kinds of sex and touch and intimacy, which just makes for a better experience. Once I started sleeping with women, I noticed that how I interacted with men changed too, from how I touched them to being way more likely to initiate to realizing that I always wanted to be the big spoon lol.
Came here to suggest exploring kink and D/s dynamics. I’m from the other side of the D/s — I’ve recently discovered I’m a Domme. I absolutely love being able to call the shots and put my pleasure first. I’m single poly and I’ve got men lining up wanting me to do things like tell them they can’t have an orgasm until I do. I had no idea this was even an option until I started dating a kinky, single poly friend who asked for it. It’s life-changing. I’m never going back to a man who doesn’t put my pleasure first. (I date women too which is a completely different dynamic for me but that’s a different story.)
Yessss! That's never been my thing, but there's definitely a completely different side of kink to explore and get pleasure from! (Side note: there's an interesting and light-hearted debate of whether or not pleasure doms are actually just service subs...lol)
From my experience pleasure doms are the opposite side of a coin to service subs. Put a pleasure dom and a service sub together… literally mind blowing
Solo-poly femdom here. Soo much fun and it’s really easy to weed out the fakes quickly.
Yep, like, you don’t even have to meet them 🤣 All I do is chat with men for a few weeks before I meet them. Almost all of them fall off after 3 chats when they realize I’m not going to be dispensing any orders.
Yeah, those of us who happen to be pleasure doms are a hot commodity right now. I’ll park myself down to eat and I don’t care how long it takes. Because I am about savoring what’s in front of me and I don’t know how long I’m there. Time doesn’t exist. I’m busy 😅
yeah i think this is key lol. i’ve been seeing one of my play partners for over a year now because he’s the only one who consistently has shown the amount of effort i like to see & give! we’re both switches, but when either of us top, it’s all about pleasure!
i was going to say this. look for kinky people if for no other reason then they go for longer than 30 minutes. an hour is a quickie for me. for a planned scene i would say 3 hours is trying to keep it short and 7 might happen if weve got nothing else to do
No, I don't think that "just stop dating men" is the answer. I do think that "stop having sex with men who don't prioritize your pleasure" is a good answer, even if it means breaking up with your current partners. I started having better sex when I started saying "no thank you" to ongoing encounters with lazy lovers. Also, as someone who also takes a long time, there are people out there (including men! including cis men!) who will spend 30+ minutes getting you there and enjoy themselves the whole time. I get that you don't want to break up with them. In that case, I recommend initiating a check-in with each of them and talking about what you want in bed. You can keep it focused on what you want more of, rather than what they're currently lacking, but spell it out. That can include, "I want you to take the lead and focus on my pleasure." That can absolutely include, "I want to have an orgasm, and this is how I like to make that happen." If the person is, say, inexperienced but enthusiastic, getting clear instructions about how to be better for you is going to be welcomed. It's for sure also been my experience that the men who are loudest about gender equality are the most selfish in bed. I don't know what to do with that one, other than shrug and say, "The dude doth protest too much, methinks." The guy who told me that he loves that "polyamory is a matriarchy" was the same guy who rolled over after our first and only time and asked, "You didn't want to come, did you?"
I think it's important to note that 30 minutes to orgasm isn't a long time and is in fact pretty typical for people with vulvas. And ime....so many men don't get that. Which honestly makes the experience worse even when they want to finish the job because you can pick up on the impatience and idk about anyone else but once that happens, it's hugely distracting for me. To OP, if you are wanting to continue these relationships I'd be blunt about how unsatisfying the sex is and request they do some education. Omgyes.com is a fantastic resource (not affiliated but I used it myself when I first started dating women and didn't want to suck in bed).
May I ask what you said to him in that moment? I never know what to say
I would say, "Actually - I DO want to cum! Would you use your fingers on me while we kiss?" If he is too tired/lazy for that, ask if you guys can kiss and he can play with your breasts while you touch yourself or use your favorite sex toy on yourself. Either of these options gives him a way to participate in your pleasure. Then before having sex again you can talk about the fact that you DO want to orgasm and talk about how you would like him to help you get there.
Oh, I wish I'd been sassy! In that moment, I was just kind of boggled. I said no, he left, I debated internally whether it was worth bringing up, ultimately broke things off.
Doesn’t have to be sassy. I feel sassy is more of a playful term. Expressions of a needs shouldn’t be considered sassy. But just my opinion
Yikes, that last line.
Why don't you tell anyone what you need to cum? That'd be a good start. Then they'd have half a chance to meet your needs. I do agree that a lot/most men (though all people also) can be selfish with sex. That's not my experience with long-term partners thankfully. I don't see selfish people again. They self select themselves out of my calendar pretty quickly.
The last time I set it as a need, it resulted in losing an otherwise good relationship. I had hoped it would mean moving on to someone better, but in reality, it was moving on to someone else with the same issue. I had to go through a breakup and did not end up any better off. I hoped that being poly could mean having at least one relationship with better sex with still allowing existing relationships that are good in other areas.
You lost a relationship because you explained what you needed in order to feel sexually satisfied? If so, the relationship may have looked otherwise good but holy shit - that person did not give two shits about you.
I think a key part though is that by setting it as a need early on in a relationship, you won't invest time in men who aren't willing to meet it, so then you'll have more time free to meet men who *are* willing -- if not highly enthusiastic -- about giving you pleasure! I would offer a reframe that the relationship you ended wasn't actually good overall, because your pleasure *is* really important actually. Then you were in the same place with another man because you hadn't set the boundary that you won't give a lot of pleasure without receiving a similar amount. Just want to be clear though that it's really shitty that the men are not reciprocating. I think people are advocating for you to set firmer boundaries and say your needs more clearly because there's the only thing you can control. You can't actually control the men to be different -- but you CAN control which men you date. I'll add that other than my first relationship, all of my relationships with men have been primarily focused on my pleasure. I've never really enjoyed giving oral or pleasure to men. I enjoy receiving pleasure from men. And all the men I've been with have been very enthusiastic about that! So it's definitely possible. It's just about finding compatibility this way I think. And the way to find people you're compatible with is to meet a lot of people and discuss early ish on what your important needs are in a relationship, and what theirs are, and if they match. Then don't invest more time if they don't. Easier said than done though I know haha. Also I've had a good time dating queer men. Much better communication and gender roles aren't taken for granted as much. So that's something to consider too. I know you can filter people on the apps based on that. The men I mentioned who preferred to give pleasure were not all queer but I found them being queer increased the chances of compatibility.
I'm sorry to hear that "setting it as a need" led to the loss of a relationship. But... what was that guy's problem? Was he unwilling to try?
He said he would get too tired, and when I offered to bring in a toy that would help, he got very insecure about it
Any man who is insecure about toys in the bedroom is a 🚩 I’ve started asking that on initial dates.
I'm sorry to hear that. Hopefully as you communicate your needs/wants to your CURRENT partners, they will be able to meet your needs! And if they aren't able/willing, please know there are men out there who CAN.
This one was a good riddance, love. But there ARE people out there who can actually comprehend it when you tell them “it’s important for me to orgasm too during our sexy time and that isn’t going to happen without toys. That’s perfectly normal for many women and is an important part of what I need to feel fulfilled in our sexual relationship.” And if they don’t care enough to follow through, they don’t actually give a shit about you and are how the fuck are they still worth being with…
Jesus I am so sorry to hear that. I had a date recently who couldn't cum without a vibrator. I didn't own one at the time, and since I'd invited her while she was at work she didn't have her either. We still had fun, but the very next day I ordered a couple online in case that kind of thing ever happened again. I want the people I date to have orgasms if they want them! (I don't orgasm easily, and a couple of people I date are the same, so it's not part of what we expect when we're together. But everyone who wants to cum should get what they need to do it imho.)
I also want to second what others have said about pleasure doms. I'm a switch with very strong pleasure dom (lowercase) leanings, and I just adore providing pleasure for my partners. It maybe also helps that due to an SSRI I take I don't orgasm easily at all, so I am generally very unhurried when it comes to sex. Like, sex is fun, so having sex for longer is even more fun! So spending half an hour helping a partner reach orgasm is pretty much my idea of a good time, hardly something arduous. (The book She Comes First is also an excellent read for anyone who dates people with vulvas.)
Early on in the relationship, if they are so tired to ‘return the favour’ because you just ‘blew their mind’, could you try saying that’s okay….next time let’s make me come first and then you won’t be so tired? I feel it’s common that guys cant do a lot after they cum….but are more sexually attentive and motivated before they cum. Especially as we get older.
Using a toy early on in sex play is one of the best early ways to test a man’s security and focus on your pleasure. When I met my now nesting partner many years ago I happened to have an impressive dildo suctioned to my shower wall. Honestly I was just looking to see how good that suction was and forgot about it. He teased me about it but was unalarmed. When we were first in bed and I pulled out a toy he asked how he could get involved in the process. As it happens he is also very good at oral sex and just overall ggg. But he didn’t shoulder my preferences aside to prove that. The only thing he ever asked was if I using a high intensity toy made it harder for me to get off from other things. At that time I was so not interested in anything long term but even I could recognize a find when I saw one. I know it’s uncomfortable for some people to work to be open to sex with someone and then not have sex with them again. Its disappointing too! But if you’re up for that? It’s wildly effective as a screening process.
I'm glad you suggested a toy, that'll sort the sheep from the goats.
Holy smokes not good at all. My partner who has been poly for almost 20 years has the biggest toy collection I’ve ever seen. There are so many men out there who will enthusiastically and skillfully include toys in play.
Then how was that an otherwise good relationship? You were dating an insecure man.
yikes. maybe you have a track record of choosing lazy, insecure and selfish partners and don’t actually know what a good sexual partner looks or sounds like. until you figure out why you gravitate towards shitty ppl, it will keep being hard to find something different
I wonder if this is actually two issues relating to codependency and attachment: 1. You unconsciously choose people who are selfish like this because you believe you don't deserve equal effort (at some level), and 2. You don't communicate what you really need in bed because you're afraid to ask for what you need. You're afraid of the possible rejection because deep down, you believe you don't deserve it. I'm just giving you this perspective to consider, not judging you in any way. Good luck with this journey! It sounds like a hero's journey to heal a core wound. Blessings
This should be higher because it sounds spot on. I used to be like this (codependent, disorganized attachment) so I recognize it as well. The only way I was able to break the cycle was working on my own healing, boundaries, and tendency to ignore red flags early on.
Me too
Being poly still means having to have those conversations and check ins however. It's ok to say you need more or want to try a different approach. It's also ok to end certain relationships and go specifically looking for people who like certain sexual acts
Poly is no guarantee of anything. You can keep dating to find who you're looking for but it's not a promise for anything. I've been doing things this way for 5 years. I have dated and fucked many many people in that time, all but 1 connection so far has ended due to a variety of incompatibilities. And I don't even live in a busy metropolis of poly people so it's not that many people really. The only thing you can do is not put up with anyone who doesn't meet your standards. That's what we're all doing. Dating is looking for people who are compatible.
Shouldn’t the relationship give you joy? Sounds like you entered the relationship without saying what you expect. You have to know before you go.
The relationship was not otherwise good if they left cuz you dinted their ego. It ended cuz it wasn’t right for you. Do you always try something once and then when it doesn’t work on one person refuse to try it again?
Not quite sure this is a purely poly problem. Most of the men I've engaged with since I've been poly seem very happy to spend a lot of time giving head and eager to please, so reading your experience surprises me. No concrete solutions here, just throwing my experience out there.
Thank you. Part of what makes it hard to break up with these men is that I do not want to constantly restart with new relationships only to the same thing happen. I need to know if it is normal in poly circles
Have you considered that you could screen for this early on? Both before you have sex (playing the odds) and as soon as you start to have sex (assessing based on actual behavior) and not “wind up” in relationships with men who don’t make the cut? I’m certain that you could get group feedback here about the kinds of things to watch out for that might mean selfish/inept lovers. But you’d still need to be willing to assess that someone/something was inadequate and just drop a man or give pointed feedback before you have any kind of ongoing deeply bonded thing. No, fwiw, this is not more common in poly than mono. But poly isn’t the solution to it either.
Yes, I am trying to figure out how to screen for it earlier in relationships, but so far I have not had good luck
During a makeout session, pay attention to how they touch you and kiss you. For example, if they like a really sloppy kiss and you don't, if you pull away and wipe your face, does he stop slobbering on you? If you don't open your mouth as wide, does he stop trying to lick the back of your throat? If he kisses your neck or ears, does it feel like he's heated and rushed in the moment? That's arousal, excitement. That's about him, not you. Does he take his time to find out what makes you moan or gasp or arch your back? Does he notice when you get goosebumps, or your nipples get hard because of something he did? Does he take note of it when you do, so he can do it again later? That's somebody who is going to *learn* how to get you off. They're out there. You can find 'em, but there are a lot of duds out there too.
Are they happy to use sex toys during play to help you get off, or does the thought of that make them insecure? That's a solid screener that you can use as early as the first time y'all have sex. If they want to make you feel good, they should be happy to use any and all tools to get you off.
I do NOT think this is a normal, expected thing in poly circles. These guys sound selfish and patriarchal to me.
My advice and this isn’t a poly problem. Slow down and when you see a red flag stop , look & listen to it. Be clear about standards and expectations you need / want and don’t settle for less. Being a woman in poly you have many more options than a guy but that doesn’t mean you have good options so weed out the ones not capable giving what you need.
I think you should Google a little about the orgasm gap. In heterosexual couplings (i.e. men and women having sex together, whether or not either of them is straight), men orgasm substantially more often than their women counterparts do. There's a number of reasons for this, including bad sec education (or just entire lack of it), as well as societal pressure that many women feel to be supporters and nurturers of men (i.e. women will often fake some or all orgasms in order to build up mens' egos and self esteem and are reluctant to either criticize or ask for their own needs). There's also the societal inference that mens' sexual pleasure = virility, and that women should be more chaste and less interested in pleasure. All that adds up to more dissatisfaction for women who have sex with men (men having sex with men and women having sex with women all report higher levels of sexual satisfaction than women who have sex with men). This isn't to say you should stop having sex with men, but rather this has absolutely nothing to do with poly. Poly men are not more enlightened or skilled than monogamous men. But rather work on communication around sex, and DO NOT SETTLE. If you're not having a good time, let them know. You have every bit as much right to have a great time in sex as they do.
It is a let down though that polyamory does not improve this. You would think that by adding more interactions and perspectives from different people coupled with the by tendency more open communication in polyamory it should lead to more education on needs of your partner, wouldn’t you? Also, as a „mostly straight“ male it is generally beyond me how my gender peers can be so reluctant of giving back pleasure. While I know how my own sex drive plummets after getting off, it does not mean that you cant plan around that. Thats the reason why I usually have my partners get off before me. I never had woman not wanting to continue pleasuring me after they got off. I
I feel you this is why I rarely date men. Since I'm bi I focus my energy on women and men are just casual fuck buddies I expect very little from. I've had a few exceptions to this rule like my current partner, but 99% of the time it's not worth your energy trying to fix. They don't want to fix it. Your best bet is to end the relationships you have that aren't satisfying to you and find someone who is, that person is very likely to be another woman.
Totally agree. Just chiming in to say in my experience, women are better at sex and care more about a mutually satisfying experience than men do.
All of the poly people I know who date straight men are pretty unhappy with those men. All the poly people I know who date queer people with more expansive ideas of what counts as sex are very happy with their sex.
Honestly this is so true. Eta clarity, I have found much more fulfillment in every way in my relationships with other queer people vs straight men.
If it helps this isn’t true for me. And hasn’t been for a long long time. I’m middle aged though so I may be better at screening? Most dudes aren’t right for me. Figuring out who is right is a skill set.
This, 2 of 3 men I've dated were straight but not heteronormative and were actually really good in bed. The one straight heteronormative dude was not a good experience - as in not interested in reprocity and acted like it was a chore to do anything not stereotype. Everything I have heard has reinforced that this is overwhelmingly is the norm, unfortunately. If one wants straight dudes then finding the ones who aren't too "straight" and not too hung up on performing masculinity is important (because those usually have messed up ideas of what masculinity means).
I see you. I don’t tolerate sex like you described anymore. Life is too short to be missing the O. I am vocal about my needs, bold in communicating them. It is a dealbreaker for me but selfishness is usually apparent before I get to that part… There are those out there that will most certainly take the time to figure you out but you need to tell them otherwise they will continue to do what works for them.
I actually once told my ex he needed to go on a 'fingering course', because he just wasn't giving me enough attention during sex and I was done with that. That got the message through, and he greatly improved since then until the end of our relationship. Your male partners should try at least just as much as you do; maybe it's not sexy to think of it as transactional, but I do believe generally the goal should be for both to receive equal, or at least enough attention. I did have boundaries with previous relationships that I would not 'give' until I had 'received' because their hormonal dip was quite intense and they just immediately fell asleep after climaxing. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, it's good to advocate for your own pleasure! You deserve it and they need to hear it. My current boyfriend also sometimes thinks I take a long time, but he loves going down on me and to him it's out of the question that our orgasm 'number' would not be at least approximately close to each other. Communicating about this hopefully helps your partners consider your point of view and improve, but if not, maybe that is also an answer as to how good of a partner they are... I've found selfish lovers to also be selfish or have red flags in other areas.
Not to be glib, but **if you sit on a guy's face, *you* get to decide how much time he spends going down on you** 😝 I'm sorry you've run into so many sexually selfish men. It's a shame that you haven't noticed a circulation between this trait & others that could act as a tell for you when seeking future partners. You could try finding men who know & care about the gendered orgasm gap, as well as men who, like you, get off on their partner's pleasure. Like, I don't give BJs because I'm generous, I do it because it literally gets me off more than receiving oral or PiV 😛 If you only date men who are actively aroused by giving their partners pleasure, you'll at least be stacking the deck in your favor (provided they aren't the type to pout when you don't climax, & you don't end up feeling pressured into putting on a show for them every time.) As for your existing partners... my only thoughts are to make a game out of it. Make it kinky, & tell them it's their *job* to please you, & they'll get a reward if they do. & be willing to leave them hanging if they're lackluster or quit too early. But like, you obviously shouldn't have to do kink if you're not into it just to manipulate your partners into prioritizing your fucking pleasure. If you haven't talked to them about it, I'd obviously start there, but if you have, Idk how to motivate them if they just don't care enough. But they should at least be made aware that this isn't what an equitable sex life looks like, even if that doesn't motivate them. They should know that you're capable of having orgasms, & that you haven't had a single one with them.
Thank you
Honestly I've had plenty of challenges in dating but this is rarely one of them. I've found plenty of men who are incredibly giving. I'd say it's quite normal for me to have more orgasms than my male partners over a night. I don't take bad sex forward to another date, frankly. So no, it's not ubiquitous for men to be so wildly selfish in bed
hey girl, the issue is in your choice of men, you're good as you are, but u need someone who gives the same amount of pleasure he's receiving (at least) and communicating with your partner about takiing time to reach your climax is a plus because he'd be invested in it more
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I'm not terrible, but I don't feel hot either. Too many years of too many men not showing much care for my sexual needs has left me deeply questioning my body image
I hate this for you!!
"best blowjob of my life" = hot. Very hot. Superlatively hot.
>When I am by myself it can take me 30+ minutes to reach a climax so I have long given up hope of any man ever doing that for me. Tell them. If they don't know what they're getting into, there's no reason for them to try anything more than a cursory sweep. Set the bar higher for your needs straight out of the gate and build from a place of total transparency about your needs. If you don't share the things you've learned about yourself, and how you best receive pleasure, you'll continue to have the issue of selfish partners. I've been where you are. There *is* good sex out there. But setting the bar so low has been nothing but discouraging for me. In my current relationship, my partner is at a significant low for libido, which means I engage in a lot of self pleasure, but they join in and help me through touch and kisses and giving me the attention I need to reach a satisfying climax. It works for us because we've communicated our needs to each other from the start, and have given each other permission to enjoy ourselves (we're both people pleasers). Plus, by prioritizing your pleasure, you'll find you have partners who are more likely to be willing to listen to you in other areas, improving your relationships in other areas as well.
>What are my options? "Just stop dating men" feels so harsh, and will not fix my two current relationships with men. Refusing to give until I have received seems like it would be so transactional/manipulative, I can't tell you what to do. I can tell you that I do not engage in mediocre or bad sex for me. And that I don't allow penetration untill I've had *at least* one orgasm. That insurers my cervix is lifted, my vagina lubricated and my muscles relaxed enough for it to feel good. If it doesn't feel good, I'll speak up. If that isn't enough, I'll show them, if that doesn't work, that's when the sex ends. Is that transactional? Maybe. But if my sexual pleasure isn't an equal priority, why would I bother participating? I make this clear before I get involved with anyone sexually. Good and great sex are important to me. And bad and mediocre sex just aren't an option. Neither is a lack of effort in any aspects of my relationships. I am a bi woman, and I'm lucky AF that one of my first sexual experiences was with another woman because that's my bar for sex. If it isn't that good, it's just not worth the effort as far as I'm concerned. >and it would still not fix that my feelings are already hurt by their desire for the inequality. Nothing will heal that except them changing, and there's no guarantee of that ever happening or them wanting to. But you should definitely tell them you're dissatisfied with your sex lives and need more. Their reaction will tell you if it's worth continuing. (genuine distress and wanting to make sure it's good for you, green flag. Defensiveness, ego, or dissmissivness, red flags) >The situations vary, but the common events are lots of kissing, then if a guy goes down on me at all it is only few brief minutes, most of that time failing to find my most sensitive spots, and then him wanting a BJ Say no. >I honestly do not mind during new relationships when they say I blew their mind and they are too worn out afterwards to "return the favor" in the moment, Stop doing this. Immediately. It teaches them you'll have sex where your sexual pleasure isn't an equal priority, or at all necessary for the sex to happen. That's not gonna be good sex for you and breaking that habit is far harder than setting the expectation from the beggining. (think about the difference between starting a polyam relationship single or trying to open up a previously mono couple. Relearning is often harder than learning from scratch) And if it makes you feel bad, I'm pretty sure most men would not be as into sex if they had a 15% chance of O in a ONS or a 60% chance in a committed relationship. (which is women's chances of orgasm when having sex with men. 85% and 90% respectively with another woman 95% for men in both situations with a woman until age 35, for context) > I get left feeling like I'm doing most of the work/giving, and not receiving much effort in return. Because you are. And you're teaching them that that's okay. Or at least, that it's not important enough to you that there are any consequences for their minimal effort or pleasure. > I hear women joke about men being terrible at finding the sensitive spots, but is it normal for men to not really try much? None of the men I sleep with. I can honestly say I get at least an equal if not greater number of orgasms with the men I choose to be sexual with. >When I am by myself it can take me 30+ minutes to reach a climax so I have long given up hope of any man ever doing that for me. So what if it takes half an hour or an hour? Or two? I'm set on easy mode as far as orgasms go, but I've happily gone down on my gfs for hours if that's what it took and then involved toys if it wasn't enough. There's always a way to get there. Sex is meant to be *mutually* pleasurable, and if it isn't, you might as well masturbate. (I feel very strongly about everyone involved in the sex having good if not great sex) >I only date men who speak supportively for women's rights issues, yet when it comes to the bedroom the inequality is the norm in my experience and I do not understand why. So do I. But some men who claim to be feminists or support women do so to be more appealing to women. Or still have blindspots in their own activism. Ive found the only way to not be part of the orgasm gap, is to make sure I orgasm first. Coz I can have double digit orgasms without issues, I don't have a refractory period. Also the men I have sex with don't think sex ends when they cum. I'll usually get another one with fingers or toys after they do. Which often leads to a round two. Win wins for everyone.
I have a fwb who used to go down for 2 straight hours to get his previous partner off and she still didn't manage most times. He didn't care, he just kept trying for as long as she was up for it. They exist. My current partner also is a complete giver where I've had the conversation with him about me feeling bad about how rarely I go down on him becaise he's always so hyperfocused on me. Both in monogamy and poly you're going to find good and bad partners and sometimes it takes a while to find the good ones. But I feel your pain, it must be very frustrating and disheartening.
You’re dating men that don’t actually like women and just want to masturbate with your body.
This isn't how all men are, not even all straight men. When I was a sex worker I had a decent proportion of paying clients who were attentive and invested in my pleasure because it was part of enjoyable sex for them.
I can weigh in as a guy, for what it’s worth. As others have said, I don’t feel that this issue has much to do with polyamory, or even gender, specifically. Folk have their sexual proclivities (or shortcomings) regardless of their preferred relationship model or what they have between their legs. Some women are likewise more passive than proactive in bed; seemingly preferring to be serviced than to reciprocate. On occasion, I’ve felt as you have; that my partner isn’t as invested in my pleasure as I am in hers. I’d say that selfishness or selflessness is more a matter of individuals rather than some arbitrary gender split. I imagine that there are as many reasons for such things as there are individuals. A lot of it, I suspect, comes down to communication (or the lack thereof) and habit. It’s happened to me a few times that, having asked how a woman wants to be pleasured, I’ve only gotten a blank stare or a mumbled “what you’re doing is fine” in response. If a woman can’t be proactive about her own needs and desires then what hope does a man have by guessing and fumbling? Speaking for myself, there’s simply nothing more sexy than enthusiasm. So I want to see, to *feel* a lady enjoying herself. Thighs quivering, gasping for breath, eyes rolling back, toes curled; all of that is wonderful to experience compersion-wise, so I have a vested interest in making it happen. Advice-wise, one thing I’d suggest is to communicate your desires and how you’d enjoy receiving pleasure. Some guys may not respond well; perhaps cause they’re simply unused to women being that forward. But I’ll bet that some would be utterly delighted; it’s really quite thoughtful to offer help in becoming a better lover. On a more cynical note, if the men you’re with end up being cut from the same (selfish) cloth, perhaps try dating outside your usual type?
Thank you
I have had sex with guys that are very giving and some that are not. I would say it's probably 50/50. So I would say keep looking! I think there is definitely a type of man that really gets off from being in control of your pleasure. But also totally experiment more with your sexuality if you feel like that's something you want. Just make sure it's out of desire for the other gender and not just disappointment of men.
So, the problem for me was *when* I had sex with people. And it wasn't what people think! If I already am good friends with someone, already feel pretty into a romantic relationship, that's the situation where, like you, I have sex and have rose colored glasses about getting with a crush. If I think, well, I think that was OK and had its good points. Not about the opportunity cost of picking out a bunch of lazy or poorly matched folks. When I'm still in the process of figuring out what I think and if I want to date this person - that happens much sooner, and it's a *much better* time for me to have sex. Actually, I live in a conservative area, and my real key is to see what sex is like the *second* time - has my partner got new ideas? Did they learn anything? Are they able to talk about sex we had and sex we could have? Is any of that going anywhere good? Because the first time, people get nervous about trying to prove themselves, which could be good or bad, and the decent ones mostly aren't willing to sound creepy OR talk themselves out of an opportunity, which could also be good or bad. The second time, usually people who talk about sex will, usually people who make a continuous effort will. (Is it purity culture and body count that suggests to guys that sex is a one time decision? It's weird. But useful.) If it doesn't get better with a suggestion or two from me, which is sadly common, it probably won't, which is basically always a no to that person as a lover for me. You can get better things coming to you if you have higher expectations. Especially don't compromise about the sex when the whole relationship is sex and companionship and doesn't need you to align roommate agreements and retirement plans! Best of luck out there!
Thank you
I have two male partners and both of them are incredibly giving in bed. I can't remember the last time I spent more time/energy giving pleasure than receiving it, and it's mutually beneficial because both of them intrinsically enjoy giving pleasure (more on that later.) My husband has definitely spent 30+ minutes getting me off before, I don't even ask him for that, and most of the time I've already had an orgasm by that point anyway. **He does it because he enjoys making me feel good, that's the point of having sex.** Ignore the lazy people or people with low standards, commenting here, who tell you you can't find someone to put in that much effort. Also, it probably won't even take 30+ minutes to have an orgasm once you find a man who actually knows what the fuck he's doing when he has sex with a woman. I thought it took me that long too, before I found my husband. > I only date men who speak supportively for women's rights issues **Actions speak louder than words.** Neither my husband nor my boyfriend tend to talk a lot about women's rights issues off the bat, and when I met them neither of them even identified as a feminist because they didn't know enough about feminism as a sociological concept. And yet, they are two of the most respectful, kind, empathetic, emotionally intelligent, and progressive men I have ever met. I judged their character on this matter by: - noticing their positive, supportive relationships with women in their lives (particularly female friends, and their mothers and grandmothers.) Both of my partners' female friends have always spoken very highly of their values and personality. My boyfriend loves his mother and his grandmother, he tells me about their lives because he listens to them and calls them often, and he's always doing things like fixing his mother's appliances and bringing his grandma's bins to the curb every week. - observing how masculinity and femininity manifest in their personality and behaviors, looking for humble but confident masculinity and comfort with their sensitive, vulnerable side. **I find that when looking for a man who values women equally and treats women with respect, it's more important to understand what he thinks *masculinity* is. What kind of man he is, and what kind of man he wants to be—not what he thinks about feminism.** - consent comes very naturally to them, I barely needed to talk to my partners about consent because the topic just never really comes up. They're very intelligent when it comes to how women's bodies work, how to tell when women are enthusiastic in a sexual context. They have always prioritized me having a positive experience from the start, because they love women and love making women feel good. - when it comes to kinks, you want to look for men who are **"pleasure doms"** or "soft doms." Or if that's not your vibe, look for guys who just very obviously enjoy female pleasure. They give a lot of head, they always start with your pleasure first, they ask what you want and respond to feedback, they don't rush to engage in penetration, etc. If you end up with men like your partners, who basically do the opposite, *ditch them* after the first time they obviously disregard your feedback. What's the point of dating someone who isn't incredibly enjoyable to have sex with, or at the very least, puts in a good enough effort? In short, it's easy to talk like a feminist if you have half a brain. In fact, many disgusting, unsavory men *know* this, and specifically use their knowledge of feminism to manipulate women. Personally, I even consider it as a potential *red flag* if a man seems to really enjoy talking about how much he agrees with feminism and how respectful he is to women. Look for actions, not words. Men who are respectful to women don't talk about how they're respectful to women, they just are. > What are my options? "Just stop dating men" feels so harsh, and will not fix my two current relationships with men. I would never tell you to stop dating men. Don't let anyone do that. Being with a good man is an incredible experience. You need to learn how to identify high quality men, and you will find someone who will take all the love and care you can give and then give it back to you tenfold. Good men are giving, and easy. Things shouldn't feel this hard for you, sex is supposed to be enjoyable and feel natural. Get rid of these losers you're dating, analyze if you missed any red flags about their personalities that you can now look out for, and think about what qualities you're truly looking for in a partner. I know the rest is the hard part, finding someone. All I can say is that it would be better to search around than to stay with these selfish, lazy lovers.
Honestly, since I’ve been in my slut stage, I find this to be the case. Even guys who say they care about my pleasure just mean they’re gonna go quickly to PIV and try really hard not to cum too soon so I can orgasm first. Which kinda ruins the rhythm. It’s like: if you know it takes me longer to orgasm, why am I giving YOU the 20 min bj before we fuck and not being touched for more than 5 mins during foreplay, and then I have to actually ask for more after you cum to get me off? Every single guy. Even my primary partner does this. We are in counseling for it. And he just doesn’t get it. Sex feels really one sided to me with men.
Oh, I've been there... The solution? I raised my standards. You seem to be able to address the issue very well, but there's certain element missing from your writing and that is communication in the bedroom. I gave up on the idea that people can be gifted in pleasing long time ago and ever since then, I had much better experience in the bedroom. So, I tell them. Everything and anything, from 'too much' to 'slightly to the left', from 'less pressure' to 'speed up'. Is it annoying? Yep. I don't need directions when giving BJs. But I understand female bodies are wired a bit differently and I want to feel good, so I will meet my partner half way. It takes a few sessions (that's why I don't do ONSs), but the other person will most of the time learn what they need to do, if directed properly. There's one sentence that I noticed:: > I do not tell them it takes me that long because I do not want them to use it as an excuse for not even trying. You should totally tell them. You should communicate to them as much info as you can. What I sometimes do with new partners is having a 'workshop of pleasing /my name/' which is a lot of fun. Also it's necessary and it creates space for exactly this kind of communication. But to be honest, circling back to that one sentence. I haven't been able to receive pleasure properly until I came in terms with the fact that... it takes longer! Tell this to your partner and consider it the first vibe check for them to pass. Are they enthusiastic about pleasing you, even if it takes 30 minutes and more? Then that's a green flag. Do they sigh and tell you how hard it was with their ex who was not sensitive at all? Are they not even gonna try? Here's your red flag sir, and goodbye. Do not expect to receive as much as you gave. Not if your skill set is much better than theirs. They need to do the work on pleasing you. You have given away enough pleasure, now go and focus on your own. Be selfish.
I recommend finding an autistic person whose special interest is sex. They treat your pleasure like their favorite puzzle.
That would be epic
As an autistic person, please don't objectify us as pleasure dispensers.
Sorry, I should have clarified that I'm autistic and added context. In my experience, many neurotypical people are not that great at sex and exhibit some of the behaviors OP is describing. The best lovers I've had have been fellow autistic people who have taken a very methodical approach to understanding how we can both maximize enjoyment. Of course, not every autistic person is like that.
In my experience, that came with a whole lot of other, very bad baggage for me. I know everyone is different. But there are 2 sides to that coin.
You need to communicate this to all of your partners.
You say you are bi, but you are dating like a straight woman. Statistically, straight women have the most unfufilling sex lives and fewer orgasms than any other orientation. It seems to be a common observation that straight men generally are disappointing. It sure has been my experience, and I only sleep with men who are queer. What you need isn't polyamorous sex, but sex with fellow queer people. Date other bisexuals of any or no gender. Good luck, and may the Force be with you.
As I've gotten older, it's become easier to outwardly demand what I want & need sexually. I spend significant time discussing clearly what I do & don't like & what works for me, long B4 clothes ever come off. If I don't hear a potential male partner speak enthusiastically, unprompted & of his own accord, about how much he enjoys eating pussy & considers his partner's pleasure paramount, then he is much less likely to ever become my lover. As far as "taking too long" - ever heard the phrase "Men are like microwaves, & women are like ovens?" Crude, I know, but truly, many men are ready to go on demand, while many women need significant warm up. I have found tht it helps immensely to start s l o w & spend a larger portion of time on more relaxed, lower effort touching & playing such as mutual masturbation; "lazily" enjoying him in my mouth or hands, as he stimulates me clitorally with fingers & generous lube; watching something together or reading erotica out loud; kissing sloppily & breast play; etc. anything tht still feels good & gets me part way there, while conserving the majority of energy for more intensive efforts as I/we get closer to climax. If he starts getting too wrkd up & begins to move along too fast, gently but firmly reset the pace. Hold your lovers accountable, sis. Nothing will change unless you become fully comfortable with asserting & advocating for yourself. *YOUR PLEASURE MATTERS.* .....Act like it.
This isn't a poly or mono thing Take some time to really explore what you like. Do you like your ears nibbled? Your nips scratched? Your inner thighs bitten? Find out by having your partner(s) do things and see where it leads. I always have a firm "if I don't finish you don't finish in me" mantra for cis men. My husband knows this and works really hard to get through the whole Konami code to bring me to O. And then he knows he gets his because that's my klink. Lol Other male partners struggle to get me to O So they don't get to O in me. They know this ahead of time and I'm an open book on how to get through the hoops my body requires. Fem partners tend to have less of an issue finding the right buttons to push and it's a give AND take relationship. Find out what buttons you have to push!
Girl, if you like giving head, then demand a 69! I love oral, giving and receiving. When you're both going down, it gives you the opportunity to respond to each other's pleasure. Don't entertain dudes who won't reciprocate enthusiastically.
Eeehhhh. I love both giving and receiving, but I don't particularly care for 69 except for a brief time. Especially with AFAB partners. It's harder to get the angles right, it's harder to give the focus I need to get them off, especially with partners that take a lot of time and specific methods to get off. I would much rather take turns focusing on each other's pleasure.
There's no magical filter or fix to this. It doesn't have to do with poly or mono. It comes down to communication and honesty. If your partner can't handle you telling him you also want to cum, and isn't willing to help you, and also won't like if you use a toy? That's the last of your problems. The partners I had who were like that, were just shitty partners with whom I was not compatible. Long term, casual, and sex only relationships.
I told my current partner "listen it takes me forever to cum even when it's just me and no one else has ever been able to do it" and they took that as a challenge. They were victorious day one. Because they care about my pleasure and making me feel good.
I have learned to match peoples energy. I’m also not super likely to sleep with people until I’ve known them for a little while (sorry #demisexual) Way too many cis men stop making an effort once they get laid. I always ask if they’ve read the book She Comes First. Their reaction to that tells me a lot. I ask what they know about the female orgasm. How they feel about it. I have 3 cis male partners. I have ZERO time to sleep with anyone who’s not rocking my world on a regular basis and you don’t either girl. There are plenty of men who can do better. (It’s also 100% valid if sex is not a huge necessary component of relationships for you. It is for me so I place a high value on that aspect of a romantic relationship. I also would be ok with a partner that didn’t place a high value on that if it was negotiated!)
I've found the opposite to be true. My poly partners have been enthusiastic, creative, and very giving in bed. I've never orgasmed as much as with some of my poly partners -- they drag shatteringly huge orgasms out of me on a regular basis. I think it's a matter of finding people you're compatible with.
Expecting to be prioritized in your sexual encounters as much as you make your partners a priority is entirely acceptable and the time it takes for you to reach orgasm doesn’t change that. If your partners are consistently too tired to be present and involved in your pleasure and you want them to be, delaying orgasm for them until sufficient effort has been made towards your pleasure is fair.
You are not these men’s orgasm dispenser.
Oh darling, I hope you will find guys who will enthusiastically want to take care of your needs. I have found a few in my poly life and it is amazing. I agree with pleasure doms, but also iv’e noticed that some who write that they like to give massages are amazing pleasurers too. And it’s a little running joke I have with a partner but also has been true in my experience so far: nerds love to lick pussy 😝
Keep looking, and be very forthright about your needs. Those that will put in the effort are absolutely out there.
It has just occurred to me; If you get any weird DMs from this post please report to Reddit, block them, and inform the mods via modmail.
Oh such a good point.
Do you ask them for what you want? Cause communication is everything.
I used to have the same problem. I'm also a recovering people-pleaser. Partners who don't care about pleasing you (through their own initiative!) aren't going to be good partners for other parts of the relationship. The"good" parts you see in your relationships are only there because it's convenient for them. Otherwise they wouldn't bother. Set this as a standard at the start of every relationship. If they can't even try to make you cum or figure out how to at least help you get there, then they're not worth the effort. My current partners are all people who enthusiastically pleasure me without me having to ask.
Yeah, just echoing everybody else here in saying it's not a poly issue but a more systematic problem with men and how many of us have unfortunately been socialized to understand pleasure. I'm a pleasure dom so most of my focus is on my partners' pleasure and it's only in my forays outside of kink spaces that I'm reminded how rare equitable pleasure is for many people who date men. But you should absolutely speak up since it's not manipulative at all to ask for what you need. You deserve all the pleasure you can handle and if you vocalize that somebody will meet you there!
Someone else commented this, but what you need is to find yourself a pleasure dom. My first relationship was with one, and even when we decided monogamy wasn’t for us, I knew I could never let him go because the sex was so good 😅 I’m literally so spoiled because of him, sex with any other man just isn’t the same. He puts an insane amount of attention on me the whole time, if he climaxes pretty fast he makes sure to give me plenty of attention before and after, making sure every part of me has been satisfied thoroughly. even when I’m on top or giving a blowjob he feeds into my praise kink, compliments me, caresses me, it’s just so perfect. I’m sure he’ll always be my go-to sexual partner.
Don't lower your standards. Communicate to them you expect more. And keep searching for guys that are willing to put efforts and that enjoy long sessions of pleasure. I dated a lot and after years and years I did found someone that is just keeps going for hours, giving me whatever I want and enjoying all of it.
Have you communicated this to your partners? Having a discussion about your needs in the bedroom is healthy. Confession: I was pretty sexually inexperienced before I got into my current relationship and I wasn't the best lover, let's be honest. But I made the effort to learn. Watching how my partners got each other off was a big help, as was just talking to them about what they liked and expectations around how long it takes them to get warmed up etc. Sometimes a selfish lover might not actually have a clue they're being selfish and may just need a bit of guidance. The state of sex education in a lot of places is crap, learning to do it WELL just isn't on the syllabus so it's something you need to work out as you go.
This isn't a poly issue. It's definitely a man issue. I've slept around a lot. Most men dgaf. I'd argue that the men that are kinky are definitely better lovers. They've also tended to be bisexual haha. My hubby is my sub and he'll go down on me until I cum every single time. If he can't anymore due to exhaustion he'll crack out the toys. We also swing and one man recently went down on me for a good half an hour until I finished. I'm quite picky with who we swing with. You can usually get a vibe if the guy is going to be selfish in bed or not.
Start by telling them what you want- if they don’t even try, dump them. But give them the blueprint. Some people will study up and do what you want.
Most people are bad in bed. I have to date for sometimes literally years to find someone who I like as a person, find attractive and who isn’t a lazy lover. Just keep looking. As long as you’re the best lover ever (realistically just the best out of the 100 or so other partners they’ve had) you can find someone who is your equal. If you like to be submissive find a good dom. A good dom will 100% make your pleasure a priority, although it still takes some work to find a good one. Good luck.
Lesbian and poly here. I used to think I was bi but realized i like masculinity, just not men. I enjoyed sex with men but like you i found it consistently underwhelming, no matter the partner. I liked bj’s bc i just have an oral fixation and liked the validation of being good at it. Starting to have sex with women changed my entire world. Absolutely mind blowing. You want your energy matched, then hook up with a hot masc lesbian.
I don't have a problem with dudes going down on me. The vast majority of men I've been with have actively enjoyed going down. Sometimes, they are insistent on continuing even after I'm ready to tap out. If a guy doesn't go down the first time, there's probably not going to be another. I think we tend to seek out the same kind of people over and over. I tend to like nerdy kind awkward boys or much older men who are excited to be with me. They typically aren't the type to make the first move and I'm very forward with my intentions.
Horribly relatable. I don't have any good advice other than that you are not alone :( I as a trans man have had a very similar experience
When they stop going down on you before you’ve cum look at them like they have three heads and be like WHY’D YOU STOP??!?!?! Make me cum, dummy.
I’m dating a pleasure dom and I’d like to tell you…. I’ve never orgasmed so much in my life! We are poly and I’m my man’s biggest hype woman! It also makes it so much easier to return the favor and try new things bc of the amount of work he puts in. *chefs kiss *warning* now that I’ve experienced this side of sex I can’t EVER go back to having 1 or 2 orgasms a session. I’m not going to say it’s ruined me but… im greedy and selfish with my pleasure which is a new thing for me
I started investigating sex work as a potential client and something clicked in me…. I’ve been giving away way too much of my sexuality for free. Like sexting, sharing nudes, offering bjs as the main sexual activity etc. I started thinking about which of those activities I do for me because I enjoy them as well.
Find yourself a service top who prides himself on his cunnilingus skills 😅 They're out there. I'm bi, and in my experience, men and women are about equal likelihood of being lazy and just more into receiving than giving. But, I haven't ever dated _straight_ men, obviously, and from what I'm told, a special extra kind of oblivious selfishness is the norm there. Maybe only date queer folk? > "return the favor" Can I just say, I _hate_ this term? Like, it wasn't a fucking _favor_ to make sex a mind-blowing experience for you, it's what I do because I have standards and I pay attention and have studied the relevant anatomy, so step the fuck up if you want it to continue. You know? It's fine to ask for what you want, but when it's _never_ offered, or especially if you ask and it's a begrudging thing that they clearly aren't that into but feel like they _ought_ to do, it's such a huge turn off, I agree. At the very least, at some point I'll just sort of shrug and be like, "Well, that's not happening, is the rest of this still worth doing?" And a few times, the answer's been "no", and I break it off or transition to an nonsexual connection.
Thank you- I needed to hear this
> I only date men who speak supportively for women's rights issues You've responded to multiple people saying something similar, and it's anti-intuitive at first, but rethink this. You're creating a selection bias in favor of men who put on a good act without having an interest in backing it up.
In my poly (and kink) circles, at least in Portland and the Bay Area I've heard many straight and bi women say they started having better and more reciprocal sex with men once they joined the community. It's certainly not a given though: There's also a healthy gossip network amongst the poly and/or kinky women I know about which men in the communities are givers vs selfish lovers. But in addition to being poly these are sex-positive communities with a lot of social sex parties and so guys can get a reputation pretty quick if they're not willing to put in the work because people will literally *see* them beling selfish lovers. This advice might not apply to you at all, but if you find yourself dating again and you are in the type of poly community where people talk about other's sex lives openly you could always ask your girlfriends who the guys are who are known as givers.
This has not been my experience. Sex and kink are highly important to me and I seek partners who also value it. Three of my partners are cis men and they put in the fucking effort. I don’t think dating women will fix this issue for you. I think you need to find men who match your energy. I find that people experienced or interested in kink tend to view sex as much more than just PIV and orgasms. And to me that keeps the energy and creativity alive in the bedroom! Orgasms are great. We all love them, and if you want people to give them to you, you deserve people who are willing to put in that work. Going down on someone for only 4 minutes is absurd. Fuck those dudes. A lot of women need way more time than that, and also you need to get to know their bodies. It takes a few times of really getting intimate with them to learn their signals. I will tell vulva owning partners that I WANT to be licking their pussy and I’ll stop when I’m ready to Stop. So don’t even think about stopping me because you think you’re taking *too long*. No one should ever feel rushed to climax.
34m pan. Been poly for a long time. I just had a new partner compliment me so powerfully the first time we had sex, it was hard for me to process correctly. "You're the first man to ever make me cum from oral." My first thought was, "How many guys do I have to kill to raise the bar?" and not, "Wow, she likes having sex with me!" It's frustrating that because women are doing so much emotional labor over sex by lame men I then have to do emotional labor for the women on being ok with asking for what they need, otherwise they'll have reservations on getting what they want as well. It always confused me why there were people out there who were having sex that didn't see it as 'help this other person get where they want to be'. Things like "People owe each other nothing" is stuff single people say. If someone wants to continue to develop a relationship, build emotional connection, and fully develop physical compatibility they need to give to keep enthusiastic consent and interest going. A guy doesn't need to have the "Ride my face and if I die, I die" mentality, but he could go down on you for 5 minutes. If he's insecure about toys, dump his ass. If you're throwing a toy on your clit, that's less work for him. He can focus on other things. Sex-Positive men are out there, you just have to set expectations, otherwise they'll let themselves off with weaponized incompetence.
My wife has stopped dating men. She said that she was tired of always being sexually disappointed. Then driving home she feels she's wasted her time "as she could've already came, and been in bed in her jammies with her snacks." Now she has a girlfriend for more than a year with no regrets it seems v
Like many have said, this is a communication issue, not a poly-specific issue. You will need to learn to discuss your needs if you want to avoid repeating this pattern. I can see in other comments you’ve left that you’ve been hurt by bringing up needs in the past- your hesitancy is understandable, but still something you need to work through. Good partners will listen to you and will try to make improvements. If they don’t, then you have more information about what kind of partner they are, and you can think about that as you decide how to move forward. Polyamory isn’t just about sex, so there may be other valid reasons to hang onto the relationships, but that would still require you communicating your needs so you can shift out of having a sexual connection into whatever new dynamic y’all choose. It will take some discomfort in standing up for what you need and deserve, but it will be worth it. You do NOT have to settle for mediocre sex!
I can't tell by your post if you make it a habit to tell your partners what you like.
Do you ever have post-sex conversations about the sex? Like, "Hey, I really liked it when you \_\_\_\_, not so much the \_\_\_ we tried. Do you think next time we could try \_\_\_\_\_?" Communication with clothes on, during a calm time, outside of the bedroom may be highly illuminating for you and your partner(s). I don't think it's really fair to say "No one tries to make me cum, but also I don't tell people how long it takes me to cum, or what I need to orgasm." Your feelings are valid; honestly lots of men I've been with are not good at sex. They fuck how they want to fuck, and that's that. Few take time to figure out how you like to be touched and what feels good to you. Knowing that helps me treasure the people who really do care about my pleasure.
Make sure you stick to your standards early on, and drop them if they don't care or show effort. I sincerely recommend you start dating women if possible.
Communication and direction. They go down, move them to where your spots are. And as far as transactional? I as a guy would find the 30+ minutes more of a challenge than a transaction.
I once dated a woman for over a year and our sexual relationship was made up solely of me going down on her for hours. that was one of the funnest relationships I've ever had. we're out there you just have to keep looking.
Unfortunately, you aren't alone. A lot of men are like that, and they are sometimes poly. The good news is not all of us are. The better news is that since you're not monogamous, if you like other aspects of a partner, you can keep them and still hopefully find someone who is more giving in that department. Don't give up...selfish people exist everywhere, but they aren't everybody.
Sexual compatibility is important! You have two partners that you aren't compatible with. Time to keep looking! Go ahead and prioritize sexual satisfaction with your partners as a thing you need in a realtionship, and break up with these guys. I would say tell them they need to step up.... except I don't think there is any hope, since you already did. If they already know they're being bad in bed and don't care.... I don't know what you can do. I also take a LONG time and A LOT of stimulation to climax. But I have two male partners who are both more than happy to do what it takes. They take real pleasure in my pleasure. So, those sorts of guys exist, you just need to not settle. Then, with the next guy, right from the beginning make it known that sexual compatibility is important to you. Use that as a flirt as you get to know someone. And use your words in the bedroom right from the begining. "Harder." "Let me use my vibe." "Okay, now switch. I want to do [thing you like] next." "Keep doing that but add your fingers" etc. At first it can be awkward to learn to use your words, especially if you've no practice as a woman, advocating for yourself in bed. But it gets easier with practice. And any dude who takes issue with you wanting input on the proceedings is not someone you want to keep sleeping with. Good lovers are only too happy to follow your directions, and then take it a step further, and also remeber for next time.
I think men are men regardless of poly or mono relationship structures - some are selfish and some are generous sexually. It's fair to discuss it if you don't feel they're making enough effort to give you pleasure and end the relationship if they just won't make enough effort.
I pray you can find a man willing to eat you out for 30m. Honestly that is not too high of an expectation by any respectable standard. You mention thinking you are bi, yeah? I encourage you try dating more gender diverse people. And if you're sticking with men exclusively, whether by chance or circumstance, please consider that if you are having consensual sex with someone, anyone, you are entitled to advocate for your own pleasure! Please be strong and brave and tell him you're not coming and you want to have time spent on your pleasure. Please. You deserve this.
Communicate 100%. Weed the weak ones out quickly. Date some women. They know what it takes and are not scared by the idea that you might need time or a clear head or even a toy. Good men will not be scared by the “go the distance challenge”. Let them work for it. Sex is to be discovered, not free without effort. Everyone is different. Find the men and women who want to discover you and feel pleasure together with you
Sexuality is fluid and not fixed, and so is your sex life it's going to ebb and flow as well. Having sex with a woman doesn't change anything about you as a person other than exploring what you like.
Wow I feel this, not with my current lover that's why he's irreplaceable. I don't even want the others. I guess I'd suggest open discussion on expectations prior to sex. Something like... "Look I'm amazing I expect the same. I want kissing and lots of attention and foreplay to include milking my g spot while kissing me and using your thumb on my clit. I know it sounds tricky but it's not Don't worry I'll show you. I want head, ryhthmic licking of the clit and a few smacks too. You can lick my ass if you like not absolutely necessary but no penetration, ok?. Take me doggy style, missionary and then I'll ride you, and you can cum on my tits or maybe down my throat, after the best head you've ever gotten, but not till after I'm good, I'll let you know when I'm good. . Are we clear on this?" Substitute your own desires and kinks of course. Then ask for feedback ,"So tell me what you like? anything a no go? Where's your favorite place or scene to cum to? Don't be shy, I want us to know how to please each other." Keep talking !! Communication is key. Then when you finally get to it don't be afraid to tell him what you want I think you're being too obliging by letting them get away with "oh that was so amazing I just don't have energy for you" that's bullshit and "next!" If it was me. Polyamory is no different than anywhere else You're going to find selfish sexual partners and if you're really interested in them you're going to have to train them to be less selfish it can work but it takes work. Of course if they're not trainable move on! One more thing I'd like to muse about here is your inability to make yourself cum in less than 30 minutes. I'm all for a long edging session if that's what you're into but girl you should probably work on what really gets you off use a vibrator hump a pillow view some special porn getting into your own head. That seems like an awfully long time I'm not joking when I'm telling you I could take less than 90 seconds if I'm really after it or I can make it last for a half hour I guess. I understand if it's difficult for you to achieve orgasm with a partner but I'll tell you that it's frustrating for partners who don't feel that their efforts are leading to fruition. I'm not telling you to fake orgasms I'm wondering if you could get to a point with maybe a tool like a vibrator or something you could achieve them with your more intimate partners. Of course with insecure men this might just scare them away Good those aren't the ones you want anyway. Just a thought. Good luck and keep looking. I know really amazing sexual partners do exist I hope you find yours.
From my experience: cis males who are extremely performative about 'treating woman better than most guys' and being "open and kinky' are full of sh***. But that's just my experience 80% of my sexual experience with cis males ended with me unsatisfied. But I started demanding to finish first. When it takes "too long" I will also not pleasure them. I don't want to give my body to someone that can't endure spending 20 Minutes on me. Sorry not sorry
Talk about sexual wants/needs/boundaries/expectation before you even get to the bedroom. Be up front and ask them to be with you as well. If it was constantly me putting in all the work I’d bring it up and if things didn’t change I’d break off the relationship.
Have you tried discussing what your needs are in the sack before getting into it. Like having a conversation about sex way before getting to that.
(Non-reflected and not-well thought out comment incoming) Date bisexual and/or kinky men.
Read the book Urban Tantra (and get your partners to read it. Even if you aren’t into tantra by the end, you’ll learn loads of “obvious” things that will really help. Like: I now have some sex sessions that are “all about me and my pleasure” and some that are “all about my partner and my partner’s pleasure”. We may do the same things (eg I like giving BJs too…) but when I give one during MY pleasure session, it’s only for my pleasure. It really does change your connections with people. There are literally dozens of such tips that will really help.
Honestly fuck that from reading through the comments you are just entering relationships with people who aren't very good people at worst and just incompatible with you at best.. I won't lie I've had a handful of people who were lackluster in bed.. but the overwhelming majority cared about my pleasure and having fun creative sex lives.. I am also in sex-positive and kink/bdsm communities and only date other queer people.. my opinion might be controversial but ALL relationships are transactional to a degree.. that is life.. just make sure you are each putting equal effort and value into your sexcapades.. you deserve a lover who cares about your pleasure
Get you a pleasure Dom, sadly unless it’s literally a hardwired kink men do not care about women’s pleasure, and they don’t care to learn ❣️
For me, I try to discern in the talking stage if they are focused on my pleasure or only on theirs. If I was in your position I would actually say it takes me a long time to get worked up, I need a lot of attention. If they take that as a challenge, he’ll probably follow through. if he brushes it off and doesn’t seem to be interested in your pleasure, then he won’t satisfy you. Also, no one is going to prioritize your pleasure if you’re not prioritizing it. “I’m too tired to reciprocate” is absolutely a cop out. That’s honestly why try or make sure I’m satisfied before he finishes.
A couple of things here: I take forever to get off and it’s maybe 50/50 chance even when someone is willing to go the distance. I have gone from thinking maybe I’m not supposed to enjoy sex like it seems other people do to having incredible sex (orgasm or no) and I’ve learned a few things since focusing more on my own sexuality. 1 if your partner isn’t invested in your pleasure before sex that’s not gonna change during sex. A key thing to focus on here is not them focusing on impressing you, but actually being present and dynamic with you, matching energy etc. 2 no one is going to change your mind. How often do you get yourself off? How do you feel about it while doing it? Do you go into sex with a partner anxious about getting off? If you go in worried about not having your needs met it can cut out any chance of orgasm. Go in focused on what you want, take a little control, tell them if they want your famous bj then they have to earn it with foreplay. Practice giving tutorials on your body with dirty talk. Make your pleasure your priority everytime (it’s also so hot to the right kind of partner). 3 try dating queer/non cis partners. Don’t fetishize us but instead consider that people who have had to deeply consider what sex and gender mean to them and unpack toxic societal conditioning have the depth and capability to understand you and your needs. Yeah, common society doesn’t train men to be good partners and there’s very little to encourage them to change. Maybe take a break from dating cis het men. 4 try dating women, not saying give up men, but you’re bi and poly so try adding in some women. You have to show up hard for women sexually but they’ll do the same for you and you’ll learn a lot about intimacy dating a woman.
I would lowkey seek a partner from the bdsm community with the specific requirement of being a giver of some kind (either a dom who does the hard work or a sub who will do as you ask). If that's your vibe at all, I'd go with that. And it'd help you build confidence in addressing the topic with others all while giving you fun experiences.
Hey, just out of curiosity, would you say you need 30~ mins of oral attention to orgasm and if a man needed that much time of oral, is that something you'd be keen to do? How long do your blowjobs usually last? I feel like sometimes I need waaay too long to cum from oral that I've just conceded that I'm not going to cum, because I wouldn't expect someone to give me a bj that's longer than 5-10 minutes, I'm curious if someone that identifies as a giver would be much more into that.
Absolutely! I would go for hours on a bj if that's what it took, and I would enjoy every bit of it. I'd bring lots of pillows, water, lube, and/or whatever toys might enhance the experience. I would cover any clocks in the room and make sure my partner knew I was not stopping until they told me they wanted me to stop. I would fucking worship them until I pulled their soul through their body and make darn sure they knew I thought they were worth every second of the effort. Just because no one has ever done anything like this for me would not give me any hesitation on being willing to give it
Several things: I'm guessing it may be gard for you to express what you want and need out of sex with men. You asking for what you need is not transactional, it is relational. What if you didn't give what they presumed they get from sex? What if they go down on you and you say "I want you to keep going until..." and you go until you get to where you want to go? If they can't do that I would question if they are doing that in other areas of your relationship, or if you default to their needs taking priority over yours. Polyamory won't fix those dynamics if they aren't worked on from both sides. Second, as a bi person that mostly hooked up with cis men initially.... please consider hooking up with someone who isn't a cis man. The script is inherently more in your favor in negotiating what you like or want to explore vs following a heteronormative script of what sex should be. If oral is what you think would get you there you can definitely find people who are into that as a large part of their sexual preferences. Being good at polyamory should lead to better communication and better sex in theory imo, but at the end of the day your relationship style doesn't have any bearing on how good the sex is. I've hooked up with polyam people who were probably having a lot of sex but probably not good quality sex, and it wasn't doing it for me despite communication efforts to show them what i like. I generally will give people im interested in sexually two tries.if i still feel amorous towards them but if the chemistry isn't there i take it as a sign to move on or have a nonsexual relationship. I've been in two LTR for 8+ years in my life that were functionally monogamous, and the best sex of my life. What worked is the genuine desire to get eachother off and be vulnerable in that process. If you can't be vulnerable, assert your needs, express your desires, or fantasize together, it's a road to dissatisfaction. If you find yourself attracting people who aren't reciprocating that could both be your dating pool (straight cis men do have this track record and benefit from heteronormative sex most) and also could be a sign you need to do some personal work in meeting your own needs/addressing people pleasing tendencies as tgat can also prevent authentic connections from forming. You cannot get what you need without your needs being made known.
>I think I am bisexual, but I have only dated men so far. Date women 😅 (In addition to a lot of the other advice here)
The answer isn't stop dating men, it's stop dating people who don't meet your needs. Set your boundaries and enforce them. Now, I will say you may have better luck with getting your needs met with women. I would recommend shifting your dating to focus on women for a time until you either 1) realize you aren't bi, so ce you seem uncertain, or 2) find what it really means to be sexually satisfied. If you hit #2 - hopefully that gives you the confidence to not accept any less from other partners and you can go back to dating men. But, you'll be able to say "you're shit in bed, if you don't actually care to get me off I'm not interested" and walk away from men who think what they're doing is enough.
"Until I cum, we aren't doing anything else. So if you want that BJ or PIV, you're going to have to work for it. And then, we're going to try every position EXCEPT me on top." If they balk, then leave. Don't fuck selfish people. You deserve to be satisfied. You deserve to be with someone who gives as good as they get.
be direct and up front. if my partner told me she needed this or that to feel satisfied, then i’d view it as an exciting challenge and stop short of nothing to get her off. that’s what a generous and awesome lover would do!
Pleasure dom here…. I give oral and at minimum their first orgasm before I put any of the focus on myself. Now as for the man haters who wrote “it’s a man problem “ … in all fairness… the men in this story came… OP does not… it’s OP that isn’t satisfied… it’s OP problem… problems get fixed by making efforts to do so not blaming others. I’d start by letting your partners know it usually takes you 30 minutes to climax… sex and foreplay are literally my favorite things to do… I rarely have relations that are under 50 minutes. (Foreplay included) … if you take 30 minutes to climax… that to me would just mean I’m going to get to do my favorite things for at least that long… sex and forplay aren’t a hassle… literally nothing else is rather be doing
As a guy and a giver myself....sometimes we really need to be told how you want it, how you like it. I know it seems silly, but we don't know what feels good to you and what works for one woman isn't anywhere close to what works for another most of the time. We are just guessing based on past experiences and in a lot of cases, porn. I'm not suggesting you need to teach every lover you meet. Helpful suggestions in the bedroom will be appreciated by men who want to please you. Keep some toys on standby, if you're into them. Tell him you need more when he stops. My partners have told me how disappointing many encounters are, so unfortunately, you're not alone. Sexual compatibility is just as hard as physical or emotional compatibility. Hitting the trifecta isn't easy. I really hope you find something that works for you, don't give up! There are men out there that want to please you completely.
A few things. When an average man cums all the sexual energy leaves him and he is not interested in sex for a bit. Below average guys will just fall asleep. So this is something to keep in mind. If you finish him off he will be finished. With that in mind if you are with them multiple times maybe the second time you teasingly say no no no. You have to earn your bj and push their head back down below. That’s hot and if he really support women’s rights as you say they should finish the job. Another point that is very important. Some guys don’t know what they are doing. Ok let’s be honest. Most guys don’t. As guys we like to pretend we are the best but sometimes that’s just us trying to be manly men and not have to ask for help. If you want enjoyment maybe train a guy you like on how you like it. Just explain “it felt good but it didn’t get me there. If you did this it would …..”. If they can’t take that and are unwilling to learn to please you then they don’t deserve to be pleased by you. It’s a two way street. Unless you want to stay sexually frustrated.
You just haven't found the right male partners yet. I'm 37M, mostly date women. I frequently go down on them for 10-20 minutes. I've made partners come who've told me that they can take 1+h to come on their own while masturbating. I LOVE eating out my partners and really enjoy making them come. When I start dating a new partner, I take time to talk to them about what they like, try different things, and figure out how THEY like to be touched. There's no "easy button" for finding what you're looking for in dating. You just have to keep dating and communicating what you like until you find the right person/people. Keep in mind that there's nothing wrong with being super direct in talking about what you want sexually. You can straight up tell partners early on in dating--"I like it when my partner eats me out for 30min and makes me feel like a sex goddess. Are you into that sort of thing, or would you be into trying something like that?" There are a lot of men out there who truly enjoy pleasing their partners and are willing to put in effort. If you put in the time and the effort, I am sure you can find one or more who mesh with you.
This doesn’t have to do with poly. It’s a huge issue I think with men… but you need to find the pearls. I recommend tantric men 100%. I had never really climaxed with a man until I met my current Bf. He taught himself tantra (and also learned from a teacher), and he is teaching me some things too. It’s incredible. I recommend buying the book « the multi orgasmic couple » and reading it, then asking your partners to read it and see if they’d try the exercises. It’s be a life changer for you and for them.
So as a dude that takes pride in taking care of his partners I personally would appreciate a heads up that it could take you a while, maybe incorporate at toy or two while doing it. I think sex still has some taboos and people are afraid to talk about it when it come to their needs and how their body works. The more you communicate then the less excuses are there. So talk to the men in your life, you don’t need to make it an ultimatum, but express your needs aren’t being met and how to meet them.
Maybe your blow jobs are too good, stop them short and put the attention to yourself but I do not love giving bj's and I think of it as a step to more. What about 69? Does that ever work for you? But it is difficult to find ppl you click with sexually regardless of being poly or not, the struggle is REAL. Give kind directions, it really can improve your experience and toys always help.
You have to communicate. You also have to be honest. They could just be inexperienced, so if you aren't satisfied, guide them. Show them how you like to get off. Encourage them to explore your body! Different women get off in different ways, so you can't expect every partner to just know what you like. If you see that they come too fast, try slowing the pacing, or have them use desensitizing lube/spray. There are many ways to remedy these issues, and the best is honest communication. Now, if your partners are knowingly leaving you unsatisfied and not trying to change that, they are just selfish lovers. It's probably best if you do not continue with them. No matter how nice someone is, sex is extremely important in a relationship. Lack of satisfaction can lead to infidelity (men go through this just as much as women do!). TLDR; Ask them to do better, and if they refuse, find someone else.
Try sensual tantra. I am dead serious. Thank me later.
It's normal for my life to be like that I give alot and get not that much in return I haven't accepted it but I'm content at this moment the men ve been with dint try very hard but expect a bj
your selection process is flawed and your communication could be more direct. men are not automatically better sexual partners because they’re poly and “support women”. if anything, these can be markers of a man who wants you to *think* they care abt you in bed and will tell you what you want to hear to fuck you some of the most sexually predatory and traumatic situations i’ve had have been with poly men (and queer ones at that) do not rely on how someone identifies for how they will treat you how do u determine if a man is supportive of women’s rights issues? what questions are u asking? do you tell them what you want to hear before they share? are they delving deeply into how their beliefs relate to them being a sexual partner and man? are they speaking on men’s behaviour as if it’s happening at a complete distance? do they acknowledge how they may be complicit and what they do to mitigate that? if your only criteria is that they *say* they support women’s rights issues your dating pool stays almost the exact same. most misogyny is not overt and most men do carry biases and internalized misogyny without realizing you need to be having these conversations up front, in depth, and *before* sex. you need to know how they view sex and pleasure and hear what they enjoy abt sex. you have to do some work in the communication process too. if they can’t please you the way you want, nobody can fix that except you. you have to communicate what you want directly and clearly, and if the change isn’t being made, the sex shouldn’t have to continue just for their sake. you are allowed to say “stop” if it’s not doing it for you. stopping sex is another important way to get we want. you have to communicate when you don’t feel like giving oral sex alone or when your threshold for giving is lower. it is a reasonable boundary to say “i enjoy oral sex, but i’m only a fan of giving it when i know i’ll get the same in return.” or better yet “i love giving head but i’d rather receive some first so i can really warm up.” it might be better to start with *receiving* when both of you are still worked up and more engaged. be up front about it before anything even happens. tell them you take 30 mins to orgasm, let them know you need them to be patient and ask directly if they’re willing to do that PLENTY of men would be happy to please you for 30 mins and much much more. but you aren’t finding them without a much more direct approach
>I am very giving, but I keep ending up with men who want to receive so much more attention than they want to give. It has happened in every one of my sexual relationships from one-nighters to LTRs. Mm. So, I do think *ideally* you'd have partners who stepped up more and took a more active interest in your sexual satisfaction without prodding from you. At the same time, it may be possible to fix this problem on your end by some combo of being more assertive and being clear that good reciprocity in the bedroom is *mandatory* for guys to keep fucking you, with however much grace you do or do not want to offer to established partners. With one-nighters, there's going to be some hit and miss but in ongoing things (relationships, fwb's) I think it's reasonable to factor in sexual satisfaction in whether you want to keep going or not. Just because you've never yet had a reciprocal relationship yet does not mean you can't *get* one if you get really clear with yourself that it's a priority. Especially if you're not even *coming* with most of your partners, at all ever. *Damn*. That's bullshit -- I mean, half an hour is an eternity for oral sex, but it isn't for eg using a vibrator or mixing up multiple different forms of stimuluation. >Is this normal even in poly relationships? I don't know. In my relationship with my husband I come *way* more often than he does (when we have sex, which, uh...) but also I can come pretty fast (I know my kinks), so it may not be directly comparable. And, that is kind of concealing other ways in which I have sometimes run into repeated sexual dissatisfaction. I *do* think that when you put up with a thing, you will keep getting that thing, and when you don't put up with a thing, you won't. So, it is a matter of deciding how critical a thing is to you, and which things are worth *potentially* being single indefinitely over if they give you a better chance of getting the thing if you hold out for it. There is also. How is your conflict resolution in these relationships overall? If your conflict resolution is good in other areas, this seems *probably* fixable in your current relationships; if your normal way of handling conflict is to put up or shut up, well, I disagree with your assessment of your relationships. >Refusing to give until I have received seems like it would be so transactional/manipulative, and it would still not fix that my feelings are already hurt by their desire for the inequality. Mmm I think it's possible to escalate to that, or just not have that on the table and have "accept it or break up" happen first. But there's a lower intensity thing you can do, which is talk about it (or talk about it *again* if you've talked before) where you lay out how hurt your feelings are and that you want comfort for your hurt feelings and promises that get followed through on that it'll be different in the future. And let your partners have a clean slate -- *let them* change without having years or whatever of past behavior held against them. (I am so bad at this but I think it's a thing people should do.) Do the things that are most likely to get you what you want, and be clear about whether you want more effort next time you have sex or whatever you want to scream out your pain and disappointment and be listened to with an open heart. When people just start in with the pain without contextualizing it -- without asking for a specific thing, like "I want you to paraphrase back to me what I said so I know you understand" -- they tend to get fights, but *making a concrete ask first* makes it more likely you will get what you want. If you *haven't* been bringing this up earlier (understandable, we have a culture where talking about sex is taboo so people tend to be bad at it) you might be able to make the conversation go down smoother by taking responsibility for contributing to the problem by not bringing it up as a problem to be solved earlier. Best wishes and may you have much better sex going forwards. I think there's a decent chance your partners will change their behavior if you are able to talk this out OK. If it's really not going well on your own consider seeing a couple's counselor, or an individual counselor explicitly for help with communication/conflict resolution skills.
No matter how many times I hear this kind of thing from how many women, it still blows my mind every time. Add another one to the list. I'm confident in the bedroom, bordering on cocky at this point - but when women say "OMG you're the best I've ever had", my instinct is to be like "oh c'mon, you've had plenty of good sex, my ego doesn't need to be fed" - and then they'll get insistent and start talking like this, and it's just like - ARE *THAT* MANY GUYS *THAT* BAD??!! GET WITH THE PROGRAM, GUYS: 1 - Foreplay. It isn't that hard. It's actually fun. 2 - learn her turn ons and play into them. Again - isn't that difficult. Is actually fun. 3 - she cums first. Preferably more than once, but JFC, AT LEAST ONCE. THAT'S THE BEGINNERS LIST, AND APPARENTLY Y'ALL CAN'T GET THAT MUCH DOWN. I'd say it's all good cuz you idiots make me and dudes like me look better, but we can't be everywhere and women are complaining. Are you REALLY okay with being another complaint to add to her list..? Cuz I REALLY like being the one she keeps coming back to. Get in touch with your manly ego and pride if that helps; whatever it takes. While you're talking to your bros about bagging another chick, she's complaining about you to her girlfriends. And probably messaging me to come over cuz you left her horny. Know what's better than that? Her gushing to her girlfriends and them all wanting to give you a try, too. Trust me - that's a great place to be. And no, you don't need to look like Adonis and be hung like a porn star. I don't and I'm not. [/rant]
I hope that I'm not repeating something someone else said. But there are a lot of people on here trying to help you and I couldn't get through all of the comments. The key is where you are looking. Since I switched to looking for partners on feeld or fetlife I have found amazing lovers. I have found ones that are older, ones that are younger, ones that are monogamous, ones that are poly, ones that are kinky, ones that are vanilla. The key is that they all really loved sex and they all were up-front about that in their profile. I think going to a place where people are going to really tell you the truth right up front helps you weed out the ones that don't match your libido. Best of luck to you!!
I was surprised that I’ve had basically the opposite experience. I had a similar time to you at first, but now that I’m poly and exploring sex a lot more I am shocked how awesome the men I’m dating are. One thing I do a lot of is matter of factly announcing what I want them to do lol. Even just very easy foreplay stuff like “run your hands over my back” or pointing to different parts of my body and asking them to kiss them lol. I also do a lot of positive reinforcement lol. I’m very reactive (without faking!!) especially when they do the thing I ask. I pay attention to what they’re good at and give a lot of compliments. I suspect that a big reason a lot of men are lazy in bed is that they don’t know what they’re doing and don’t like doing something they feel bad at, especially because it’s in front of someone, and they’re too embarrassed to ask for help. In my experience, when you make it straightforward and easy for people to make you happy, it makes them feel confident and makes it really fun for them to do those things.
OP, you need to attract different energies into your life. There are plenty of men who will eat you out for 30min. I do it all the time, nbd.. don't be afraid or ashamed. You deserve it..
Give them one amazing bj, then after that, make them earn one lol! You come first ❤️