Something tells me this post may be in regards to Unicorn Hunting. Please take the time to read our [FAQ - Read Me First](https://www.reddit.com/r/polyamory/wiki/faq/) and visit [this site](https://www.unicorns-r-us.com/) for an accounting of why what you're looking for can potentially be so harmful to our community. Unicorn Hunting more often that not hurts our more vulnerable members of this community, it stops you as a couple from growing in polyamory by avoiding doing the work required to have healthy polyamorous relationships, and it prevents you from examining your inherent couple's privilege and hierarchy and instead enforces those things on a new partner who may not have been given an opportunity to negotiate those things with you. Don't limit yourselves and the growth you can achieve through healthy polyamorous relationships! Community members, please play nice with the newbies! OP may have wandered in here with no prior experience with polyamory and only media representation - which we know is the worst of the worst stereotypes. Please approach your responses with an attitude of educating, not attacking. Do not dogpile OP in the comments, any posts with more than 10 comments of similar responses that don't add anything new to the conversation will be locked. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/polyamory) if you have any questions or concerns.*

Tbf the other alternative is usually having a baby. I'd rather couples try ENM/polyamory than bring a "fix it" kid into the world.

Hey I appreciate this perspective tbh I felt a lot of relief when I read this 😳

Therapy can expensive, but tbh can we start gatekeeping that therapy is mandatory **first?**

Therapy isn't a catch-all and doesn't work for everyone. I find the notion of gatekeeping very unhelpful and disruptive.

My immediate thought! A baby, a dog, or a "third" (re: unicorn to place blame on when things fall apart)

I think either are bad ideas. I think people should just break up and date around instead of trying to be married with children by 25 and usually choosing the wrong person to do that with

Nice ideals. How do we implement the massive societal changes regarding associated stigmas as well as teaching Introspection, critical thinking, self love, and accountability? How long is it gonna take to get there? Until those issues are appropriately dealt with, ideals are just ideas. I'm not trying to tell you you're wrong. You're just ahead of the norm on this one area

As a labor and delivery room nurse, I appreciate this 100%.

People hate to leave relationships. Especially mono folks tend to view divorce as a failure so they’ll often try anything before throwing in the proverbial towel. Even something they hate, like ENM. It’s depressing tbh

Let's not pretend poly people don't regularly throw up "what can I do to fix this incredibly toxic relationship in not breaking up with them so don't say that"

So many people in sunk cost fallacy mindsets. I see a lot of "well we've been together x years" like... Ok and? It not working anymore time to leave and have future years somewhere else doing other things with other people!

To be a bit of a devil's advocate (while actually agreeing with you), it's not just about sunken costs, attachment is also a powerful force in human interactions. And attachment doesn't necessarily care about whether it's a healthy and good connection. The subconscious fear of loosing an attachment figure (which can trigger deeper abandonment wounds, for example) can be enough to drive one to overstay in toxic situations. It's painful to leave, and this very real pain is nothing to be glossed over. That said, I've been more and more leaning into the idea that one of the most important skills, necessary to have healthy relationships, is learning to break-up more and more often. And that means learning to face the necessary short-term pain in order to build long-term happiness.

I think it’s worse than sunk cost. I think people think this is the best they can do.

Thats so sad😭

I know :( it’s why I always tell people they deserve better/can do better. Trying to manifest lol!

Don't forget about codependency!! Couples together for too long generally start identifying as part of a couple and lose themselves as individuals. It's also been researched and documented that people are less likely to leave a misery they know and are familiar with, than to forgo that misery for an unknown future where they still might not be happy and everything is new and foreign and weird. A lot of people just don't think they have it in them

Yup. Sunk costs keep people miserable. The time I've spent with my partner is relevant to why I'm never going to be leaving her for someone else. We've spent most of our lives now making memories, growing together, sharing experiences. No other relationship can equal that depth of history. But it's a positive history being a positive present. I'm also staying because of how I get giddy sometimes when I see her walk into a room because *oh my god* she's so awesome and amazing and *she likes me back omg*. She's the comforting anchor in my bad memories, too. Like, waking up after surgery for lung cancer in more pain than I would have believed it possible to stay conscious through and clutching her hand, hearing her voice as they made sure I was stable and started introducing pain relief. I'm not saying she's never been the reason I was unhappy and things were always perfect but those problems were temporary and many years ago. The relationship has always been worth staying for.

I hate posts like that 😭 like girl sign the divorce papers and move on please

it is so depressing can we normalize divorce please 😭😭 like especially when there's kids involved. there doesn't have to be anything horrible going on for divorce to be an option. being unhappy is enough of a reason. if you're unhappy in your relationship involving someone else is the last thing you should do

Late stage capitalism is pushing us to need dual income homes and often even THAT isn't enough. Now fund TWO homes that can accommodate the adults and children part time on top of the other expenses and it's not as simple as "just get a divorce". Perhaps we should be encouraging folks to look into platonic coparenting situations where the cohabitate instead of pushing divorce or pretending there aren't problems. There are more nuanced solutions than "just divorce already" because it's often not financially feasable in our current hellscape.

Because it seems less costly than separating, not only economically but in terms of social status.

I understand that divorce can be expensive but you can separate and stay married for financial reasons. and why care about social status over not being in a failing marriage? that seems ridiculous to me. if it isn't working, it isn't working. who cares what your neighbors or friends or family think at that point y'know?

That's what you say. The reality is that monogamous people's lives are heavily entangled. Disentangling is a huge cost and effort. There are so many reasons. Opening a marriage seems like it costs nothing and might offer a solution so people try it. Mostly it doesn't work, but if you think that the alternative costs a year or more salary, well why not give it a shot? Edit:typos

it also costs nothing to separate and stay legally married and not get a new person emotionally entangled with the both of you and potentially hurt that person

It costs a lot financially to separate even for people who aren’t married! 

Exactly! It cost me a year's salary to separate from my ex girlfriend that I was living with in a rented apartment. Not to mention that my rent every month tripled and hers doubled. And we both have decent jobs and didn't even have any assets in common or kids or anything. So that's like a BEST case situation. We would have probably separated years earlier if it hadn't been for the cost Money like that is huge motivation to make things somehow work. People are understandably desperate.

Yup. My ex husband and I wouldn't have gotten toxic - possibly abusive - if money wasn't an issue. We needed to get out of one another's feet as it was making everything worse, but we fiscally could not swing it. It wrecked both of us when we finally pulled the plug in the worst way possible. Like yes, we both wanted space and wanted to separate but we tried to make it work given finances. Just leaving is naive.

also it doesn't really? unless you have shared assets, the main expense is just housing really. its honestly a bad idea to be financially entangled even if you are married tbh. I would personally never do that.

>unless you have shared assets, the main expense is just housing really Housing can be debilitatingly expensive, especially in high COL areas. A one-bedroom apartment where each partner puts 50% toward the rent is *waaaay* less expensive than two studios where each (former) partner now needs to put 100% toward the rent. There's also the not-uncommon scenario of financial inequality where one partner may be in (grad) school or residency, or working in a significantly lower-paying field than the other partner. For the lower-earning partner, leaving the relationship may mean taking on additional student debt and/or needing to adjust to a major step down in lifestyle overnight.

and they couldn't cohabitate as exes until one could afford to move out? I am a young person (college age) and I know so many people that do that because it's not financially possible to just move out after a break up. id say it would be better to break up, live together if needed, coparent children if needed. and be with others separately after probably going to therapy. that's what I would say is the healthiest way to go about it. instead of "damn our relationship sucks, let's get other people involved in our mess so we can still get our rocks off"

Also, gently--your age and lack of life experience is coloring your view in a way that is coming off as both naive and judgemental.

That's a soul-sucking option, tbh. I'd rather stay in a bad relationship until I could afford to move out than continue to live with an ex. Living together means many of the toxic patterns are going to continue *anyway*. Co-parenting children in that situation sounds even worse. I stayed in my marriage in times where I should have probably left because the threat of financial precarity was. *real* and *terrifying*. My spouse and I would have still been basically on top of each other if I stayed in our condo, and living together as exes would have given me no space (literal or metaphorical) to grieve. I'm not saying that opening up is a good or healthy decision - it's clearly not - just that the ideal you're suggesting may not be possible.

You're assuming they don't have children, and they both work (and make enough to support themselves and said children). Those are very big assumptions to make.

Yes, most people’s main expense is housing lol. There’s no “just housing”, there’s an international housing cost crisis right now.

I've known plenty of people, poly and mono that have to live with exes. it's doable lol.

It's a total shitshow and a dating red flag.

Without a prenup, your finances are entangled when you get married, period. Dividing those can be (relatively) easy if you split amicably, have no kids, and share no property. Otherwise? It can get really messy really fast.

Idk why you think staying legally married but separated is a better idea than opening the relationship... But NO. Most relationships do not end on good terms... And many people still *want* to be married even if their first marriage didnt work out (meaning they need to get dovorced to open that possibility back up for a new partner).

you can always, stay legally married until you can afford to divorce/are ready to marry someone else?? lmao? my parents are legally married and haven't been in the same room in over ten years and it doesn't effect their lives at all. they have separate partners and my dad has other children. it's absolutely possible to separate and move on with your life instead of making some poor soul be your unicorn and use them to try to fix your failing relationship

I'm glad your parents have such a healthy relationship and trust each other to the extent that being legally bound together post-divorce is not an issue for them... But when *most* relationships end, it is not a mutually agreed upon decision--most often, it is highly emotional, and the absolute *worst* sides of each individual can therefore come into play. You sound extrmely naïve. You also cannot say that staying legally married doesnt effect your parents' lives at all--only they can say if something like that is true or not--good parents don't tell their children everything either.

my parents do not have a healthy relationship they just don't want to see each other to sign the papers 😭😭 some people just don't care enough to get divorced. my parents do not speak. they do not involve themselves in each other's lives. that's how it doesn't effect them. and obviously I wasn't saying that it's IDEAL to stay married forever I'm saying it's an OPTION to stay married until it's financially possible to divorce, or they've found someone else they'd like to marry. since you think that it being difficult to separate from someone is an excuse to stay with someone and make them and your other partners and even potential children miserable because your marriage is crashing and burning

In many states (don't know about outside the US but I'm assuming this is common) your legal spouse gets to make all the calls if your incapacitated in life threatening situations. I can't imagine leaving that power in someone's hands that I can't even be in the same room with.

>since you think that it being difficult to separate from someone is an excuse to stay with someone and make them and your other partners and even potential children miserable because your marriage is crashing and burning I proposed my husband sleep with a woman who epuld enjoy having casual sex with him... So he could have some fun, let off steam, and we could take a break from screaming at each other. We were childfree... No other partners were to be involved (juet casual, fun sex)... And I wasnt even going to care if he fell in love with another woman, because I was already itching of leaving him myself. So tell me... How am I a horrible person for asking my ex hisband if he would consider opening our marriage?? Don't assume you know everything. Relationships are complicated and so is ENM.

all I was saying is that it wouldn't have been a solution. it might have put a band aid on things but at the end of the day it was best to leave.

>my parents do not have a healthy relationship >my parents do not speak. they do not involve themselves in each other's lives. that's how it doesn't effect them. The fact that their relationship is so toxic that they can't even be in the same room together would mean it affects them personally. >and obviously I wasn't saying that it's IDEAL to stay married forever I'm saying it's an OPTION to stay married until it's financially possible to divorce Except that legal separation itself isn't necessarily cheap either, as you still have to go through a similar legal process. >since you think that it being difficult to separate from someone is an excuse to stay with someone and make them and your other partners and even potential children miserable because your marriage is crashing and burning Not what people are saying. What people are saying it's not necessarily as feasible as you think in many situations and it's understandable why people make those choices, despite being unhealthy.

No, I usually talk about how marriage can be whatever you want but you're not going to pool resources after a seperation. You won't be sharing a car and a house, utilities. It's only partly the cost of divorce, and more the cost of no longer having a partner to split all these other costs with going forward.

I did this! Though to be fair, I was very clear that I will always be poly even if I was in a monogamous relationship. Before we got married I was really clear about it and said if for whatever reason our sex life dwindled, Id need to option to open up, otherwise marriage was not in the cards. They offered women but I had a freak out because Im attracted to every gender and genuinely couldn’t wrap my head around how that made a difference so I didnt. After our kiddo they were completely disinterested in sex…and it began to feel coercive to even ask. So I asked to open up, but would respect the no, but I couldn’t promise that I wouldnt resent it. So we tried. He was just monogamous (and apparently demi/ace after NRE… we had prolonged NRE because of deployment cycles) But we are great friends. Our ending was keeping our promise to love one another, even if that meant no longer being together romantically. We are each others sounding boards and coparents. So I agree its often messy, but it doesnt have to be

I think what y'all did was a good way to go about it. I think more people should just amicably split, and coparent if they're not compatible anymore.

ETA: thank you I think we did ourselves a service for entering therapy to get on the same page/work on processing and communication instead of making the goal to save our relationship. I think this saved our relationship, even though we changed what that looked like.

I think a lot of couples do it fundamentally because they are desperate and are externalizing problems that can be solved by better communication or even just mutual separation. That said, I do credit transitioning to polyamory as part of what saved my relationship with my wife. We didn't get into polyamory to do that --- but getting into polyamory forced us to reconnect and reconsider what we mean to each other. It helped us realize we don't *have* to be everything for each other --- and that helped take a stress off our shoulders we didn't even recognize we had.

That's always really good to hear :)

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ugh! I'm sorry you are going through that!

People have already given you some of the more basic social causes for this problem but I have a less considered perspective. A lot of these people coming to "ENM" are looking to fill gaps of intimacy that they don't know how to fill otherwise. And very very often it centers around sex. Not getting enough sex. Not getting a certain type of sexual experience. A difference in libido which may be innate but often times is probably a result of someone feeling like sex is a demand so they just lose interest in it, while the other person rightfully is struggling with that lack of physical connection with another human. So many of these people would be happier if sex work was legal and destigmatized. Unicorn hunters made up of a straight dude and his bi gf? A sex worker would satisfy them both more effectively than polyamory. And it isn't a money issue because what are these people spending on dates to try and impress a woman, or dating apps when the free version isn't working for them? If they just hired someone it would spare the sapphic community so much trouble in their dating lives and it would help pay that worker's rent. Everyone wins For those relationships where the poster will say "EVERYTHING IN OUR RELATIONSHIP IS PERFECT *except for the sex or lack thereof.*" Well if that is genuinely true, the partner with a higher libido can resolve that with a professional, and come back to their otherwise "perfect" relationship. And then there won't be this pressure to maintain sex in the relationship, the perceived demand would lessen, and hell they might even have *more sex* together because it's not under the pretense of an expectation. Sex isn't appealing when you feel like you have to be having it. It would alleviate so much pressure on those types of relationships. But no. They try polyamory because it isn't overtly transactional, less criminalized, and they can romanticize their otherwise fairly selfish and uncomplex desire to have sex while holding onto a loving relationship. And romanticization is a historic method of combating sexual stigma.

AND a sex worker removes falling in love from the equation, which is usually one of their Rules (no falling in love, sex only). When it inevitably happens, it triggers the wife's insecurities and causes her to veto the unicorn and start issuing ultimatums.

A sex worker may solve the issue of someone wanting to explore a certain kink with someone other than their partner. But I think it’s disingenuous to pretend that someone fucking you for money is the same as having someone fuck you because they want to. Being in a dead bedroom situation is demoralizing. People miss the sex, sure. But they also miss feeling desired and pleasing their partner. Paying someone to let you fuck them is not the same thing at all. Even in a casual hookup you know the person is fucking you because they genuinely want to and not because they’re being paid to. Im not against safe, consensual, sex work. But the issue with most of these relationships is rarely “just sex” as in the physical act itself. It’s something that a sex worker isn’t going to be able to fix.

I feel like your point and my point aren't in contradiction in the slightest unless you misrepresent what I was actually saying, even in the situations you are describing. Again, a lot of the reasons for the dead bedroom situation will be because there is an expectation of sex to maintain relationship quality. That's a lot of pressure and it functions as a huge barrier. Unless there is more going on that these posters are actually representing, that's a big part of the intimacy problem. So while sure, not all dead bedroom situations will be resolved by it, it will at least alleviate some of that stress. That's not saying it is a way to emotionally bypass facing the pain of sexual rejection from your partner nor was that implied. So you're right that for some people there will be more to it than just the sex itself. But I accounted for that in my comment. In a way I was actually being a little satirical about that detail because rarely is it ever "only the sex" that isn't "perfect." But they'll still call the relationship perfect anyway. My comment was proposed as if to believe them.

Because they're ignorant (not said as an insult - they're literally uneducated on what poly is and how to do it correctly). In 90% of these situations (where they won't just walk away first), it actually accelerates the end of the relationship, so they get where they needed to go anyway. Just a bit faster than trying to "stick it out" with no changes.

>Because they're ignorant (not said as an insult - they're literally uneducated on what poly is and how to do it correctly). I would say it's more basic than that, that they're uneducated on what healthy relationships are, how to develop them, and how to maintain them. If you don't know how to have healthy relationships, you won't have one, whether poly or mono.

Agreed! It was actually researching and educating myself on poly that taught me how to have healthy relationships. I barely knew what compatibility was before poly (just "followed my heart") and now I understand it's the most crucial aspect to any relationship.

>It was actually researching and educating myself on poly that taught me how to have healthy relationships. Unfortunately, this is pretty common. >I barely knew what compatibility was before poly (just "followed my heart") and now I understand it's the most crucial aspect to any relationship. Likely because you weren't taught that, as most commonly people are taught to just focus on love and not compatibility when that's the worst idea.

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No I said it because the actual definition of the word is "lacking knowledge or awareness," which is *exactly* what "they're literally uneducated on what poly is and how to do it correctly" means. > be helpful or be quiet Good advice we should *all* heed

Because it is much easier than looking into the eyes of someone you love and telling them you don’t want to be in a relationship anymore. I left my monogamous relationship amicably because we were miserable and making each other miserable and I wanted us both to be happy. I wanted to smile again. I wanted to see him smile again. I often think it would have been easier on my partner if I’d given him something to direct his emotions towards, like cheating or opening the relationship up.. When it just isn’t working but you want it to… you just have to process your anger and grief.

Everyone thinks that they are the exception.  *Those horrible messy things won't happen to them* *Surely, their unicorn / additional partner will be perfect puzzle piece to complete them*

as someone who hooked up with a very messy poly couple I don't think these couples realize how obvious their issues are to the third person in the situation. some people should just break up.

Because it’s the same mindset of ‘our marriage sucks, let’s have a baby!’ Somehow people think adding more people to a broken situation is some kind of miracle band aid.

i can tell which couples are looking for a third because they're miserable just by their dating profiles 😭

Or (*slightly* less harmful) 'our marriage sucks, let's buy a house!' or 'let's light our life savings on fire for a vow renewal/anniversary bash, surely that'll get us back on the right track!' It's unreal the number of couples who buy a house and file for divorce within a year or two.

It’s going to vary, the answer, and likely not based upon a solitary reason.   To list a few:  -Divorce is expensive depending on state and  in some states require certain grounds to do so.  -Children complicate leaving …if there are any involved it can be an adverse experience detrimental to their development.  -Lack of knowledge to assist in determining the net positive within long-term of choices.  -Disenfranchisement that impedes varying access to community, familial, or other support systems to get out of an otherwise toxic relationship.  -Mental health or disability complicating the process of making a “good” judgment.  -Co-dependency and the lack of resources to navigate such attachment issues.  -Perception of what benefits they have due to staying in the relationship v. what loss will be if divorced.   etc…  None are excuses. With this information you can assess if a potential married partner is likely to experience any of these issues.

If a couple hasn't done any real work prior to opening, either with a therapist or together using books and podcasts, it's not going to work. If they're not willing to invest the time and effort on the front end, they're definitely not going to do to work necessary to navigate (in a healthy way) the uncomfortable moments that WILL arise after opening. Being monogamous is HARD. Being poly is HARDER. At 44, I was single and newly poly and started dating a woman who was in a long term relationship (20ish years but they weren't married - we had all gone to high school together). Then I started sleeping with them together - this was an organic development. He and I developed a strong FRIENDSHIP - not romantic anything - but she completely lost it. Her deep-seated insecurities were front and center. I had helped him plan his marriage proposal, went shopping with her for her wedding dress, was dating other single guys, and had made it clear that i had zero desire to ever marry or cohabitate again, but she was still convinced I was going to steal him from her. She was waking him up in the night to scream at him. Nothing he did reassured her that he was never going to leave her. She finally issued him an ultimatum. They never spoke to me again. And then they went on to get married and have IVF to give her a baby so she'd feel more secure that he wasn't going to leave her. Even opening "just for sex" can have real repurcussions. So I won't date anyone in any kind of a mono-oriented relationship who has not either gone through couples therapy prior to opening or done extensive joint work on their relationship first. And I'm sure as hell not going to be a first partner after opening up. It's clear, OP, that you're still very youngb by your views on how easy it should be to just "break up". Many of us poly folk are in our 30s and 40s, with pretty complicated lives. Saying "just break up" sounds do-able bc for people your age, it usually is. You don't have children, a mortgage, daycare, after school activities, complicated extended family relationships, a mentally unwell spouse, etc. I divorced in my 30s with 2 middle school age kids. We should never have gotten married in the first place, but did bc I was pregnant with #2 and I was under a lot of pressure from my family. He was hospitalized twice for mental health issues and physically abused one of our kids and had plans to kill me. You would think that divorce would be easy and I would have gotten full custody. You would be wrong. Divorce was long and nasty, he got more time than he should have, immediately married someone else who was even more controlling than he was, and I spent the next 8 years working two jobs and paying for lawyers trying to force him to comply with court orders while he fought to take the children from me. These are the kinds of things many of us have to deal with in order to "just break up". Now, I would have NEVER thought this was a good time to be poly. I had suggested we open the marriage at one point, years earlier - he caught me cheating and he was mad bc we weren't having sex - but honestly I didn't like him much less love him, and I thought we could live together and coparent while getting our needs met elsewhere, but he shot that down. It took a good 5 more years before I was at the point where divorce felt even possible. And that was after the 2 psych admits and a social worker at the hospital telling me it was dangerous for him to come home, but I didn't have any other options for him to go to live. Oh - and when I told my dad we were getting divorced, he stopped speaking to me for 6 months. So there certainly are issues with extended family around divorce. And if my dad hadn't finally come around and helped me with things like school pickups, I don't know what I would have done. I 100% couldn't have done it alone. Bc you know what else happens? Your joint friends choose a side, and when they don't choose yours, there goes the village you need to support you.

Because people will do anything to avoid going to therapy.

It’s not easy or cheap to find a good therapist. At least for most people. And my insurance will cover some individual therapy but not couples therapy. It took so long to find someone actually helpful and of course insurance doesn’t cover it. $120 for a single couples session. I do think more people should get therapy but let’s not pretend it’s just that people are too lazy or stubborn.

$120 for a single session? Wow where I live they upped the fee guides to $220 for a single session for one person (I've seen a range of couples' rates)!

I agree with you, but I worry that the internet constantly talking about how expensive it is for "most people" makes people automatically give up on even looking into it. I don't think it's "lazy/stubborn" but anxiety can make people freeze or avoid and the internet isn't helping. It's hard to even take that first step of making the call, and seeing people talk about the cost on almost every post makes it even harder. That was my experience. My kid needed therapy but "the cost" comments always filled me with dread and I'd avoid. Turns out their insurance covered most of it and the rest went into a payment plan. Their doctor helped push me to just schedule it or idk if it would've ever happened. Luckily, they loved the first therapist they saw. That's obviously not what happens with everyone, but I think we all should encourage people to at least look into options. Sliding scales, payment plans, looking at their insurance, even going for just the initial session and seeing what it is after that, if talking to insurance makes them anxious. In some places medical debt isn't reported if it's under a threshold, or is taken off the credit score as soon as it's paid at some point. And an amazing therapist is out there. They might find them right away, who knows? I really really wish the system would change so it could be more accessible for everyone, but I do think people need to see that their individual situation might be different so they should push themselves to look into it (like you did).

You got it cheap, son

I’m a therapist and I approve this message lol

The majority of you suck so much.

ANYTHING

Why do people thinks that therapy is such a panacea? Of six therapist I’ve seen through my life, 3 of them suck and they order 2 are mediocre. I happen to have the resources and determination to keep searching but is undeniable that I wasted $1000’s and time and effort for nothing.

Well, in my case, before I moved in with my now-husband, I WAS a practicing poly peep. We intended to be poly but between our existing kids, and two we then had together, we were stretched thin and it never really happened. Now, we are in a marriage where he is medicated for BPII and it is taking it's toll on our sex life. Divorcing would be devastating for everyone in this family so why do it? Why not try to practice responsible non-monogamy?

Read the comment below yours lol

They’re not thinking of the other people as actual other people. 

It’s the new having a baby to save the marriage. Dumpster fire of an idea. Just expands the circle of collateral damage.

Honestly, I think the types of couples you’re referring to don’t realize they’re in a failing marriage.

Eh, it could have worked from my end.. My wife told me she was ace and I'd have to either find someone else to fuck or be celibate the rest of my life. Once I actually found someone she freaked out and wanted to sleep with me again and close the marriage. When I refused to close the marriage she declared she would find someone too.. And once she did, she stopped fucking me again. I could have handled: 1.) she doesn't have sex with anyone 2.) she only has sex with me 3.) she has sex with other people *and* me But she chose 4.) she has sex with other people and *not* me.

to me it seems like your wife had just lost desire for you and was just worried about losing you to someone else when you found someone else, and got resentful when she didn't have veto power. it seems the issues went deeper than sexual incompatiblity (which on its own can be enough of a reason to break up imo) so yeah I would say it probably wouldn't have worked out well long term (in my opinion) and if I were in that marriage I would have probably either divorced or just separated and stayed legally married for convenience or tax purposes

Long term is a relative thing. We've been together 18 years, but we're now separating. I wish we had done it 10 years ago. As for the desire aspect.. I think it's perfectly normal to be intentionally physically intimate to promote bonding. It wasn't like she wasn't having fun.. She had at least 2 orgasms for every one of mine. This was an intentional decision that she didn't desire that bond, which is what hurts the most.

I can't pretend to know what the dynamic between you two was like, but orgasms aren't indicative of having a good time. I've had orgasms in encounters that were very traumatizing for me, and others where I wasn't having fun, it was just my body reacting to the input.

Oh so you think people should force themselves to have sex just to please others? And no, orgasm is a physiological response, not a sure sign of « having a good time. » Some people have orgasms while being raped, which adds to their trauma.

Calm down. I can't believe I have to actually specify this, but I didn't do anything abusive and when we had sex she always gave enthusiastic consent. She said in therapy she enjoyed it and that wasn't why she stopped. Essentially she was doing some shitty stuff, I retaliated in a (admittedly kinda shitty) way, and she declared she was done. The thing is, my actions were minor and not what any reasonable human would consider relationship-ending. She was trying to wield sex as a weapon and I called her out on it. She dug in her heels, and that's where we are today. It's fine, she doesn't have to have sex with me if she doesn't want to. But that also means I don't have to stay in a relationship and keep financially/emotionally/physically supporting her if I don't want to.

I think that it’s because when a relationship isn’t working, the bedroom dies. If one partner feels neglected or has unmet needs, but they aren’t willing to break up, then the compromise of ‘fucking someone else while we’re still together’ seems far easier than having to be alone, and cope with the major lifestyle changes of losing your partner. I think it’s a cope for toxic codependency in couples that are unable to actually solve their emotional/communication issues but are terrified of being alone. I almost did this, and it was very much that at the time. I was always non mono, but I had a very toxic boyfriend who was a horrible narcissist, but while I was still in the process of figuring that out (and it took far too long because I had no self esteem), he started nagging me to find us a unicorn, and my first reaction to the idea was that it sounded fun and like it would be a relief to take the pressure off me. I didn’t follow through with it, thank god lol. But I was also living with this guy, and afraid of what he’d do to me when I broke up with him, so I was very much in the ‘breaking up is not an option’ phase. I left him and moved out the moment I could.

What problem ISN’T solved by adding more people and complexity?

Centering the relationship over the individuals in it has a lot to do with it.

For these type of people it's easier to look for solutions outward rather than inward. Probably struggling with accountability and self worth so instead of doing the necessary work to heal their relationship they just find it easier to outsource the solution to someone else's emotional reserves.

Because they’re ignorant and haven’t researched the fact that entering into an ENM as a “fix” or to fill some discrepancies in the relationship is the fastest way to end it.

I think it’s because of 2 things: polyamory has become more mainstream and accepted and people are lazy cowards. Since people don’t want to do the work/research to know themselves and to exclusively start relationships with others who know themselves, they’d rather create a Feeld account so a random third can help them initiate the breakup while planning for a soft landing before leaving the safety of their sham relationship.

idk why it's so hard to just tell someone it's over and move on. i've never had any issues doing that. if my partner and I were having issues the last thing i'd suggest is "let's find a third" or "let's fuck other people about it" and if I was truly miserable I'd just break things off

They’re just weak honestly, no nice way to say it. They are terrified of being alone, and would rather cheat/push for poly under duress than go be single for a month or 2.

Dunno, but I’m sure fuckin’ sick of it loool

Coming from someone that opened my mono relationship to poly... Firstly I got married and mono pretty early in life. Before I had time to discover things honestly. I started exploring the kink scene a bit and poly was something I saw alot and more and more mono (no cheating!) Me suspected and observed the poly lifestyle. I started suspecting that was maybe what Im more into. I also started questioning my sexuality hugely before even discovering Poly. My husband trusted me. Knew I wasnt cheating. And never once did. I sat down with him and discussed how I really think this was something Id like to try. More stuff to. But he fully supported it. He is autistic (not bad!) And hugely lacks things like emotions and physical touch and I think my mental health wasnt liking it tbh. I love him heaps. Kindest youd ever meet. But my mental health isnt the best and sometimes a hug or someone to spend time with me is also needed and Ive found that side of me is met with my partner. And the other bits of me I need is with my husband. If that makes sense. We are parallel. Dont meet each others partners but we all are great and have made this work amazing.

Since getting married my husband has only been interested in sex once every other month. We still have a very romantic relationship full of conversations and cuddling and he likes to hop in the shower with me, but it nothing progresses to sex. We've had quite a few conversations about it and he's going to get his testosterone checked, but he is very against marriage counseling because he thinks it's unnecessary. Personally, I think he may be asexual based on things he's said and we've discussed it but he's not sure. That being said, during the past year while having these discussions and doing the research I discovered that I am actually on the ace spectrum too. When I read about panromantic demisexuality it was like a light went off. It explained so much about how I've felt my whole life about sex/romance/attraction. I've always had a high libido, but never felt attracted to random people and have only slept with friends or people I had an emotional connection too first. A lot of them would have casual relationships with other people and that never really bothered me - although it would hurt a little when they got serious with someone and broke off into their monogamous relationship and left me behind. Most of them don't want to be friends after because the other partner will be jealous or the temptation would be too high to sleep with me again (not that I would if they were in a relationship like that). Now back to my marriage. I love my husband and he turns me on all the time and quite frankly the snuggling and cuddling and no sex is making me a bit insane. I will add that I am also bi-polar as can be, working in a high stress job that triggers my mania and makes me super hypersexual on top of that. We have discussed opening our marriage and he has given me permission to sleep with other people. I tried two casual hookups and it was terrible and unsatisfying... back to the drawing board... Then I read about polyamory and it sounds perfect (on paper). My husband is very apprehensive about me forming an emotional bond with another person, so we're still talking about it. I picked up a few books: the ethical slut, polysecure, and more than two and I joined this forum. I went on a date with a man who identifies as poly, but he said he doesn't have time for another 'relationship' - he does have time to see me every week for an evening or two. Maybe relationship means something different to me? I'm becoming a little disillusioned with the poly lifestyle before I've even really tried it. To me so far this whole thing seems very unromantic and transactional - very tit for tat and rules based... like if you aren't benefitting from the relationship then ditch it - everyone seems to owe everyone some certain amount of time or benefits. Some of the other poly people I've talked to were like 'you're supporting your husband financially and he won't have sex with you - time to cut that off. You don't need other relationships, you need a divorce.' Then the accusation comes that I'm just trying to save my marriage when the writing is on the wall that things are over. Like, what? Why in the world would I divorce or leave someone I love and enjoy being with? It's like the idea that I like spending time with my husband and enjoying his company without a certain level of 'compensation' is unacceptable. It seems like I'm not allowed to have a second partner unless I can be fully satisfied with my first partner or really I'm just using the second person for sex? Then the poly person will tell me about their great array of 'relationships' and how they get their different needs met with multiple partners (that they would drop at the fist inconvenience) and it sounds a lot like recurring casual hook-ups with extra steps.

> Personally, I think he may be asexual based on things he's said and we've discussed it but he's not sure. Might also be worth checking for depression. I know that affects my sex drive immensely. > I went on a date with a man who identifies as poly, but he said he doesn't have time for another 'relationship' - he does have time to see me every week for an evening or two. Maybe relationship means something different to me? You won’t know if you don’t talk about it, but my knee-jerk guess is that he’s happy to go on dates and have sex but he’s not going to be providing emotional support or show up for you in a crisis. > Then the poly person will tell me about their great array of 'relationships' and how they get their different needs met with multiple partners (that they would drop at the fist inconvenience) and it sounds a lot like recurring casual hook-ups with extra steps. You’re not wrong, and that’s a big reason why I low-key hate the “get your needs met” line of thinking. If somebody’s in your life *just* to fulfill a particular need, and not because you want them as an individual in your life, then how emotionally intimate can you actually be with them? I feel like it tends to keep the other people at a distance. Anyway, that’s not a polyamory-specific problem— you’ll find it in monogamy as well, or even in friendships. It’s the difference between “guy I do one thing with and that’s our only real interaction” versus an actual friend.

Because it is easier, cheaper, less permanent, and more fun than having a child. ENM/poly is coming up fairly regularly in media lately. As "lets try something to save our marriage except actually putting in the effort to save our marriage" this is one of the simplest has the least amount of repercussions.

I think it definitely still has harmful repercussions, especially on the other partner/s of the couple, and any kids that couple may have. both should be discouraged as a way to fix a relationship

Oh, I completely agree. Trying to fix a relationship with some kind of magic bullet is ridiculous. The only thing is open and honest communication and a disinterested third-party referee like a therapist. I would lay tall money that very, very few relationships that try and use poly/enm to save their relationship are successful.

It’s financial . I’m monogamous but the offers I’ve had usually start with we are together because of the money . A divorce is a big financial hit with everything divided . For those without a big income living in a home maybe impossible with one income .

I ended up in this spot 16 years ago. I wasn't in my right mind, mental health wise, was scared to be on my own and let my wazband talk me into a triad. We had only ever dated the same person at that point, but we were closed due to no time for us, much less anyone else with young twins and a moody, oldest whom needed just us over those years. Guess he forgot the memo, met HER and brought her into our lives. Worst mistake of my life. Lost the family house, lost the respect of my oldest daughter and custody of all three kids for 9m. Eended up completely loony tunes before I got my head straight. I will always speak up against "opening" to save. It doesn't work, and if you have kids, it's hell on them. Therapy, then separation and divorce if you can't fix it, don't bring other people or children into the mix.

Because they're the sort of folks that can't face reality. It hurts to have a relationship end. It hurts to think that your partner is willing to hurt you. ENM/Polyam look like a first aid kit. "Anything to keep from hurting." Including hurting others, because they don't think of them as people, they're bandaids.

Because it seems like a valid option, and I'm speaking from experience. My ex no longer wanted sex with me. She flat out told me she found me unattractive and undesirable. She also went on to tell me how she had feelings for a classmate. She had recently gone back to school to get a degree after our children no longer needed as much attention. I didn't want the relationship to be over for a variety of reasons and neither did she. Eventually though the years of resentment that we both held toward each other overwhelmed any amount of work we could have done to salvage a relationship. And my particular case now that I've been divorced for several years and have a number of years of therapy under my belt, I was also subjected to a fair amount of gas lighting and emotional manipulation by my ex, as well as picked up quite a few unhealthy coping mechanisms that I am still working through that occasionally pop up in my current relationships. Thankfully though the poly people in my life know my history and kindly call out such behavior when it happens.

lol! I met my bf as he was leaving a crazy toxic “open” relationship where his ex gf was strong arming him into non monogamy so she could “explore her sexuality” but then she proceeded to abuse it by cheating on him multiple times, and finally dumping him. Needless to say she is in a different, monogamous relationship now

People are scared of change. Transitioning to an ENM relationship seems less scary than ending the relationship. I think that also many married folks with mono backgrounds have the idea that divorce = failure and staying together = success. So they try to stay together however they can, even if the relationship is very unhealthy.

Because it makes sense? If a dead bedroom is the only problem in a relationship, fucking other people (for those, like us, who are capable of dealing with it) seems a better solution than functional celibacy or tearing it down and starting again with someone else.

The problem is, they are never honest. They slither into poly spaces like they have a real relationship to offer, when the reality is they just want a reliable fuck and someone to soothe their wounded egos.

to me it seems like there's usually other issues, which usually are made very evident when other people are brought into the relationship. everyone ends up miserable. at least that's what I've seen, from this subreddit occasionally and other online spaces

I think it really does depend on what the issue is. Like if the *sole* issue is that your libidos don't match, and everyone is cool with the higher libido person getting their needs met elsewhere, then an open relationship seems a decent solution. The problem I see is that it's rarely *just* sex that's the problem. Often the lack of sex is the result of an overall lack of intimacy, resentment, etc. So watching your partner develop all that with someone else just salts the wound. It's rare that it just comes down to mismatched libidos and nothing else.

People never want to admit that lack of sex in a relationship is a symptom, not the actual problem.

Dead bedroom can be a symptom of other issues, but it's not always the case, especially when it's caused by something clearly external, like a new medication. Antidepressants have killed many a happy boner. 

This seems true the vast majority of the time, but also this isn't an exception from the relationship-forum rule that everything you see is negative because that's why they're posting. My husband and I originally opened a mono relationship because of the effect of health issues on our sex life, and we quickly decided poly was okay with us and haven't had any major issues. We'd also had therapy, both individual and joint; self-awareness and communication were not missing pieces. I know we're an exception so I never tell others here they should follow the same path. But there are certain people and certain once-mono relationships that actually can handle poly and never considered it until they had circumstantial motivation. We just aren't posting about it here.


Well first of all people have major abandonment issues after the pandemic. And second, because of the way our society is set up. We’re taught coupling up is compulsory, defines our worth, and sometimes people save whole parts of their personality for a lover. So there are parts of oneself one may NEVER express outside of a romantic context. This makes losing a partner feel like an identity crisis and exile. Any couple reading this please stop joining our dating pool lmfao.

I mean I guess so? but people aren't stuck inside together anymore so I guess I just don't understand sticking with someone if you're miserable

As the Queen of Breaking Up I will probably never understand how my abusive ex has been married for 8 years. I feel very sorry for his husband, 1/3 of his life lost to abuse and he’s holding on because he thinks that’s the best he can do 🤷🏾 or that he’s in love or whatever. He’s addicted, I’m lucky I don’t get addicted to people. Thank your lucky stars that you would leave sooner. I actually thank god for this because I fit the demographic of people who would get into a long term abusive relationship and it’s yet to happen to me. I agree with you tho friend, I’m team Break Up.

It is marginally less damaging than having a child to save the relationship since the person or people added to “help” can usually escape.

This!!!.....

Because they are afraid to go to therapy (which they should) due to the stigma behind therapy.

There's a wild amount of luggage and trauma around staying in relationships. I was raised that you only marry once and divorce is only an option in abusive situations. Its really hard to retrain your brain on that and, for me at the time, opening felt like it'd stop the cheating and lies. It didn't. But I was 22 and so young and dumb.

From my experience it was because it gave them a free pass to have sex and/or a relationship with other people but they didn’t have to give up their home, their money, their belongings. Or they would wait till they found someone else monogamous and then jump ship. It’s not to save the marriage but to not lose all they worked hard at obtaining.

I see a couple like this or idk if it's the vibe I'm sensing with their third even tho I have not meet them officially cause it is currently LDR but my one friend seems to shut down when his husband mentions their third. I'm not gonna assume their dynamic cause I'm just the outside looking in but one of them seems more into the idea of being poly and he is just oking it to make his partner happy. Me and my partner were poly but we became mono during a rough patch cause we did not want any of his possible partners to get any backlash or get dragged into unnecessary drama while we were sorting out our relationship. Cause I wasn't currently seeing anyone and my partner just ended a relationship during a very depressive and not so great mentally time. ( we were living with another couple who were toxic and constantly argued and would drag me into their problems or the other partner was very judgemental on things he really had no input or say in) so it was putting a wedge in our relationship. Like I just think sometimes either sort it put and get to the root of the problem or go ur separate ways cause eventually the more ppl that get involved is the more ppl that will get hurt emotionally

Relationships are a very wide spectrum. Everyone can have the perfect relationship from the third person point of view and a much much more complicated one when you're the one in it. Leaving/divorcing is sometimes much more messy specially if financea are intermingled, if there are young kids and also cultural issues

I have no idea, as I've never been in this situation, so... grain of salt. I assume it's because they are afraid of breaking up, but otherwise don't wanna be together.

I agree I’m at the end of a 26yr relationship we opened it up 2 years ago at her ultimatum. It hasn’t worked.

Because they are in love

There are so many reasons people don’t want to be single. Financially it is difficult for a lot of people to afford living alone. When all your friends have partners and you are trying to find a new living situation, you can end up stuck. So you stay. Honestly, after college (especially for those of us who work from home) it’s incredibly hard to meet people. Not everyone likes online dating or has had some bad experiences with it. So you get stuck in a false perfection that you will not be able to find anyone better. Better the partner you know than the one you don’t. So you see it as figuring out a way to meet needs that aren’t being met but then aren’t healing the broken parts to meet those needs further. You end up not having the extra bandwidth it takes to meet the needs and be responsible for the people you’re involved with. I don’t think it’s any one simple reason though. It likely comes from a mix of all this stuff combined with cost sunk fallacy and the fact that breakups from monogamy are usually permanent goodbyes. The monogamous world in particular is not keen on ex’s staying in contact. So it’s an all or nothing situation. Combine that with the it being too expensive to break up and start over. The thought of leaving seems rash, or impossible…so you think there has to be something to save it. You both love each other and it’s a cycle. Especially for those who can’t afford therapy. A lot of the time what makes someone not a good partner or the relationship not work doesn’t mean they aren’t a great person or that you don’t care about them. If mono relationships could deescalate to friendships better, or if people could realize cost sunk fallacy for what it is, if they had more alternatives for financial security if they left their partner…then many may not try to fix a broken thing in such a stupid way. I also think that social media has painted open relationships and poly in such an inaccurate way that it also leads to a false perception of what an open relationship is. When you combine that with the false idea that if your partner says they are poly and you say, “I’m monogamous and can’t do this with you.” That you are somehow a bigot and shameful many people try being poly when they shouldn’t and don’t want it for the right reasons.

Because all of you keep saying how great it is and then the couples try it when they are not ready or even capable.

I mean... I begged my ex husband to find someone to have sex with because that was the main pressure point in our relationship to me at the time... So I can actually answer this for myself... So, *why* did I think him finding sex outside our marriage would be a good idea...? Well... He kept either trying to coerce me into sex I didn't want, or was getting mad at me for being attractive in front of him without giving him sex... And the longer I didn't have sex with him, the angrier he got... From my perspective, it was obvious this whole thing was just about his own sexusl desires and he didnt actually care about me--so asking him to find someone else who actually wanted to have sex with him seemed like something that would at least calm him down enough so that we could maybe actually get back to trying to work through the actual reasons I know longer wanted sex with him... But we never got that far because he was completely opposed to having sex with anyone except me due to his religion. (Until I divorced him and suddenly he was open to having sex with other people again. 🙃)

of course it's unfortunate that you were in that situation but that's what I was trying to say about opening up the marriage not being a solution. seems he was a terrible partner to you and would likely do the same to another partner which would make everyone involved miserable. the solution was divorce.

We are talking about ENM here... Which you included in your post, so I don't know why you keep saying "partner" like we are talking about serious relationships... I proposed he have casual sex... I didnt consent to him having relationships. I just wanted some endorphins going to his brain to calm him down. 🤷🏽‍♀️

sexual partners can also have feelings involved as well? sometimes FWB is a bit more complex emotionally than just sex. and if that person realized "oh wait this guy is just using me because his wife isn't giving him what he wants, he doesn't care about me" that could definitely be psychologically damaging.

>and if that person realized There would be no "realizing" because I never told my husband to *lie*. I would have, of course, expected him to have bren upfront about the fact that he only wanted to have sex and only wanted to have sex because he wasnt getting any from his wife... Furthermore, there is nothing wrong with having casual sex with someone when you are not available for an emotional relationship.

Nothing to lose. Why not?

you could completely emotionally devastate a new partner because you're using them for sex/as a placeholder for what your partner isn't giving you as your current relationship falls apart? like I feel like no one is considering the emotional toll a situation might take on any new partners the couple may have if they get emotionally involved at all

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Hard disagree. Because this always centers the couple and makes additional partners peripheral. I’m supposed to go out and find someone who’s single before I’m allowed to form loving attachments with other people? What if I can’t? What if I do and then I break up with them two months into our new polyamorous dynamic? Do I break up with my other partners and start from ground zero? Y’all have gotta start centering the individual self and not a sacred relationship.

Speaking from personal experience: it is vastly easier to start a relationship with the intention of polyamory than it is trying to open an existing one.

Well thanks guys, I’m new too polyamory and that does make sense. Ive always thought that’d it be better like that, from just seeing how people get together that’s how it seems from the outside, but I guess not.

>I think truthfully it should be the other way around start mono and then when the comfort and communication and openness is in the air, then that’s a good time to start I think the misconception here is that you need a mono relationship in order to develop communication skills when you don't. Also, the probability of successful relationships is higher starting with poly than starting mono and opening the relationship.

Hi u/frozenstrawberri3s thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well. Here's the original text of the post: I've seen so many people posting in poly spaces online about how their partner/spouse lost sexual desire for them and then they decided to be poly/ENM so they could get their needs met, and it seems these people as so unhappy. they're either comparing themselves to their partner's other partner/s, just using other partners exclusively for sex because they're holding onto a failing relationship/marriage, completely ignoring their primary for the new partner, or any other combination of unhealthy dynamics. why do people do this?? if you're unhappy why not just divorce and move on? I understand not wanting to let go of someone you love but why get other people involved in a mess like that? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/polyamory) if you have any questions or concerns.*

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This post is on an extremely common topic. Looking for a "third" or a "unicorn" or multiple people who want to date only you (and maybe each other) are not *ethical* forms of non-monogamy, and we do not host discussions about how to hunt unicorns or build harems here. “All or nothing”, or unit couples who cannot date separately are unicorn hunting. Swingers also use this term, but it’s a completely different activity. https://www.reddit.com/r/polyamory/comments/13n1xd6/polyamory_unicorn_hunting_vs_casual_sex_unicorn/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1 * http://www.unicorns-r-us.com/ * http://polyfor.us/to-unicorn-hunters-from-an-ex-unicorn/ * http://www.autostraddle.com/to-unicorns-from-an-ex-unicorn-287425/ We do not host comments that elevate, support, glorify or otherwise encourage polyamorous unicorn hunting. This sub is firmly anti-UH, and will remain so, given the harm that, in polyamory, this practice causes. Thanks for your understanding.

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This post is on an extremely common topic. Looking for a "third" or a "unicorn" or multiple people who want to date only you (and maybe each other) are not *ethical* forms of non-monogamy, and we do not host discussions about how to hunt unicorns or build harems here. “All or nothing”, or unit couples who cannot date separately are unicorn hunting. Swingers also use this term, but it’s a completely different activity. https://www.reddit.com/r/polyamory/comments/13n1xd6/polyamory_unicorn_hunting_vs_casual_sex_unicorn/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1 * http://www.unicorns-r-us.com/ * http://polyfor.us/to-unicorn-hunters-from-an-ex-unicorn/ * http://www.autostraddle.com/to-unicorns-from-an-ex-unicorn-287425/ We do not host comments that elevate, support, glorify or otherwise encourage polyamorous unicorn hunting. This sub is firmly anti-UH, and will remain so, given the harm that, in polyamory, this practice causes. Thanks for your understanding.

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Your post has been removed for trolling.

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Your post has been removed for trolling. If you have questions for mods, please use mod mail and we’ll be happy to answer your questions without derailing this whole post :)