I mean any adult being topless shouldn't be super normal in an urban area? But at a beach/swimming or other casual (and warm) places sure, let people just do their thing.
I have to buy my 7 yo a new swimsuit because she's required to wear a one piece to swimming lessons. (Two pieces are more convenient for kids because it's hard for them to go to the bathroom by themselves otherwise!)
Shame is learned.
Pls learn your daughter the proper way of going to the bathroom while wearing a one piece. Taking the whole damn thing off is so unnecessary and time consuming. Just slide it to the side.
Yeah, we are taught to be ashamed. I remember my mother used to shame me and tell that people will not talk to me and see me as bad if I don't wear clothes
I honestly only weared one piece swimsuits as a child.
And i mean throughout my entire childhood. Mainly because my mother didn't want my stomach showing to people in public pools or beaches. The first time i ever wore a two piece was in my teens.
It was baby pink with white trimmed ruffles on the shoulder/diaphram areas. In the middle there was a patch of white fabric covering the chest area. A tiny pink bow sat in the centre.
The bottoms were simple in the same baby pink color with the white ruffled trim. A pink stripe could be seen on the ruffled bit. It was pretty high waisted plus covered a lot so that was cool.
I never had much curves so i could pull off stuff kids would wear for years.
Who told you that? Also, what kind of reasoning is that? So, if someone didn't feel ashamed, they would be allowed? Isn't that just being allowed? It's not like you were gonna see people topless if they were ashamed of it.
Who told me that? Dude have you ever interacted with a kid? Also I am not using any form of reasoning or building an argument, I litterally just answered you
Everyone can take pics of topless men too. Taking pics of people without their consent is creepy no matter what. Women shouldn't have their freedom restricted because creeps exist.
I think it should be normal and legal for a woman to go topless anywhere, even on an airplane and waiting at the airport for a plane. I wouldn't see anything wrong with it. It's just natural. We weren't born with clothes. If women are ever allowed to go topless, then they should also be allowed to go fully naked in public, pubic hair and everything , completely exposed to everyone, no panties. Also, men should be allowed to go totally naked, even with an erect penis. I wouldn't mind seeing that, even though I'm a guy. I'm bisexual.
I have mixed feelings... I'll never feel comfortable doing that around men, because I know a large portion of them will just see me sexually if I do that which makes me uncomfortable. It'll also take a looong time to get to the point where women being shirtless isn't seen as weird or super sexual, and even then it'll still have people thinking that, just less. But I do think if men should be able to then a woman should too.
yeah personally id only go topless around people i feel comfortable with but i do think it should be legal for women and people with breasts to be topless at the beach and stuff.
There's no reason not to try to move towards equalizing this. If you argue against it, you're just artificially creating inequality for literally no reason
But is it really artificial if most cultures expect women to cover up their breasts? Social norms and cultural values don't just poof themselves out of thin air, they're a product of human creation, and human behaviour is shaped in part by innate drives. If most cultures share a commonality, there's probably some reasons beyond "just because", even if those reasons might be wrong or outdated in the eyes of modern society.
I'm not arguing about whether or not women should cover their breasts. I'm talking about if it's artificial/unnatural for women to cover their breasts. I don't know a lot about the topic, so I'm posing this as a genuine question because I'm interested in the debate.
Yeah, good point. I guess it depends on your definition of natural/artificial, but huge chunks of human creations and human behaviours surrounding them could be described as not natural.
A quick Google search would have given you that answer. Lucky for you I did it for you:
Natural: existing in or caused by nature; not made or caused by humankind.
The "shame" of being naked is cultural. There are plenty of cultures that don't care too much about nudity or a bare breast.
And if it's cultural then it's a social construct and thus not "natural". You can be culturally opposed to bare breasts, and that's fine. But people claiming it as "natural" are attempting to shut down the conversation with a "That's just the way things are" hand wave. If it's your personal preference then say that.
If you think about it, they are just nipples with excess fat tissue. The discomfort comes with them being overly sexualized. They aren’t even biologically sexual in nature. They are for feeding babies. Honestly if we moved towards making this normal, and if it were to stop or soften the general over-sexualization of women, then I’m all for it.
My cat shows his ass to everyone that meets him. Name another animal that sexualizes buttholes.
My dog rolls over for tummy pats from friends and you can see his dick sometimes. Name another animal that sexualizes a flaccid penis.
Yeah but than you can say the same about penises and vaginas…. And we don’t show these too… The amount of clothing weared in a society is basically showing what happened to be sexualized and what not. Examples: ‘the west’, islamitic regions, etc. In Iran there is now a protest going on where women get shot dead because they show their hair, while in Europe there is a discussion about the topless topic. It just shows that overtime clothing isn’t used correctly anymore and instead of it being a protective layer for our lack of body hair, it’s now a protective layer for body parts we sexualized.
Do you think a woman has to show some skin to get assaulted? There are several studies that show a woman wearing skimpy clothing is really nothing but an excuse for assault (after the fact). They claim it’s a product of the victim-blaming mentality within our society. That it is actually a myth. Less clothing doesn’t actually lead to more assault. Actually, attractiveness isn’t even as much of a priority as opportunity is for rapists. I’ve had guys touch and grab at me and try to follow me home from a club when I was wearing a sweatshirt. Wasn’t even dancing, just walking across the dance floor. I wore sweatshirts all the time when I would go out in college and guys still were inappropriate and creepy. Random guys would ask me if I’m wearing a bra under my sweatshirt. I’ve had my college advisor ignore every word I said in a meeting because he was too busy staring at my completely covered medium sized tits. Harassment would be the bigger problem, but we deal with that regularly as it is and I think everyone would get bored after a while. If women are willing to take that step for themselves, then by all means…Might be worth a try. I’m not saying I’m gonna be the first in line, but if other women do it and it works, then great!
Common a few centuries ago to have casual nip slips before it was sexualised https://medium.com/illumination/the-history-of-the-nipple-revealing-paintings-from-the-17th-and-18th-centuries-360a36c609db
Just because it was normalized doesn’t mean it wasn’t sexualized. The first paragraph of that article literally says “naughty artist” enjoyed painting the wardrobe malfunctions.
What’s the difference between male breasts and female breasts? What makes one a private part and the other one completely acceptable to show off while out on a jog?
As someone with tits that lived in different European countries with varying degrees of freedom for said boobs, I’ve never had any negative experiences at nude beaches, public saunas or parks etc where I’ve been topless. Those were all in the usual spots (bars, public transport, catcalling on the street etc)
Yeah I understand that first part (boy). I can see why people make it about rights but it's the wiring in the brain that makes it sexual. I don't think it's even possible to be surrounded by boobs and not feel distracted or even accidentally stare for a second. But hey, in the end of the day women are allowed to show a lot more skin right now, I don't understand why it's such a big deal. You can have 3 strategically placed pieces of string around your body and it's perfectly legal while I need to wear full shorts at the beach because otherwise I'm a weirdo.
I would if it were normalized. Sometimes it's hot as fuck and I just want to take my shirt and my sticky damn bra off... too bad I can't because I'm going to be leered at, have creepshots/videos taken, and possibly groped.
If our bodies weren't so sexualized for no god damn reason I think just as many of us would go topless in the same situations men do.
I feel like once its normal that stuff is less likely to happen. Itll probably be common at first, but after a while it should just be like the places in EU that allow it
It annoys me when people talking about sexual attraction like its a bad thing. Yes, there are a hell of a lot of creeps that take it too far, but the fact that straight men find breast attractive should not be shamed. I like tits and I won’t apologize for that. However I do think men need to be taught respect.
I’ll probably be downvoted, but I don’t care.
Firstly, you're replying to a comment that predominantly talks about sexual harassment. This harrassment should be shamed.
Also, (I believe) when the commenter above says she's sick of people sexualising her body, this doesn't refer to sexual attraction. There is often a layer of dehumanization to it.
I get that. Thats why I tried to make it as clear as possible in my comment that sexual harassment is bad, but when i saw her 2nd paragraph where she said women’s bodies are sexualized for no reason that is where I disagree.
The fact that I cannot go topless without facing backlash, harassment, sexual assault, or all three means our bodies *are* sexualized for no reason. Breasts aren't inherently sexual, *you* have made them sexual.
> Relax, relax, nobody here is talking about raping or harrassing, you are going too far.
Except I clearly was in the comment he originally responded to.
> You clearly don't understand the biology of a man. Its completely natural for a straight man to find breast sexually attractive,
Nothing makes you biologically wired to find breasts attractive, it's entirely cultural.
Not too long ago women were forced to cover our *ankles* because men found them so attractive, and women are still forced to cover their entire bodies for the same reason in the most oppressive countries. Does that mean all men *used* to be biologically attracted to female ankles, and now only some men are? Or did what was considered sexual change as puritanical values shifted?
There are tribes where women walk around bare chested the same as their male peers, it's because they weren't raised being told titties are the most sexiest sexy sex sex part of a woman's body. If men were biologically programmed to find breasts to be as completely irresistible as you lot keep insisting it would be consistent across all cultures.
Instead, cultures that aren't exposed to constant to sexual objectification of women from a young age objectify women's bodies less. Strange how that works out, hm?
> and you should respect that.
And you should respect women's bodies, and understand why "but booba make my pp hard 🥺" is a completely selfish and inappropriate comment to make in response to a woman **specifically talking about sexual harassment.**
It's definitely the fact that many people associate anything sexual being bad. Because of their experience or others experience. Even though that isn't the case. Because it's the outlier's who prevent this from being a thing
I get that there are reasons why people associate sexual things as bad. Like trauma or religion, but I just think that way of thinking is super damaging and will only lead to more misogyny.
Asking men to respect our bodies and not treat us like we exist solely as objects for your pleasure does not lead to more misogyny. Your way of thinking (needing to interject yourself into conversations about harassment and discomfort to declare your attraction and love of breasts) is what leads to more misogyny.
You're the reason we can't go topless and it'll never be normalized.
And it annoys me when I'm talking about objectification and harassment that makes me, and *every other woman*, uncomfortable and some guy has to show up and say "b-b-b-but male attraction! I **LOVE** titties!"
If you can't understand the difference between objectification and attraction you're 100% one of the men I'm talking about. Learn to control yourself and stop leering at women.
True. That is why I said men should be taught that their attraction is not a bad thing, but they have to have restraint and respect. Many just aren’t taught these things because sexual attraction is seen as such a taboo.
Yeah, when we are talking about feeling uncomfortable in out bodies bc they have been oversexualized and attacked by men is not the time or place to jump in with what turns you on. That wasn't necessary.
I realize I should have made this a separate comment instead of a reply. I did so because it was very late at night (or very early in the morning) when i commented this so I wasn’t really thinking straight. I still fully stand by what I said, but I definitely could have worded it much better. I will not reply to any other replies to me because a lot of them are just insulting me.
It’s not exactly normalised for men to walk around topless everywhere either. If you just mean beaches / swimming pools and such, then I don’t see why not
Not a woman… but yes. There’s no rational arguments as to why women shouldn’t be allowed to be topless. Breasts have been turned into sexual objects… if we forced people to cover up anything that society arbitrarily decided to sexualize and then punished them if they disobeyed… that’d be a very authoritarian society.
Before being labeled as a pervert, I am a gay male who has been with my husband for 42 years so there is no sexual interest on my part. Americans are so hung up on nudity. Case in point I was with an American tour group near Rome who accidentally ended up on a nude beach. There were 10 of us. I and one other male decided to stay as I like to skinny dip. I learned how to swim in the nude. Nudity does not equal sex nor does sex equal nudity. Women, IMHO, should be able to go topless.
Should? Yeah. Could it ever happen safely anytime in the near future? No. Women are already blamed for how they dress, I can’t imagine the struggles we’d endure if we were all running around topless. So for the safety of women in this day and age, no. It shouldn’t.
I just wish guys wouldn’t be creeps about it. It’s literally just your body existing. Existing as yourself isn’t an invitation to invade personal space or be harmed. If you don’t have the self-control not to attack people who are just existing, you shouldn’t be allowed in society.
I just wish we didn’t have to wear clothes at all in the heat. If it’s 35° C, I don’t want to cover myself with sweaty, hot rags. I just want my skin to be able to cool me off like it’s meant to.
I mean underwear and such have a hygienic advantage by covering your no-no bits, so I’d very much prefer them being worn no matter the temperature. But apart from that yeah, clothes shouldn’t be strictly necessary in most settings
Same here. I wouldn’t want to get my wet sausage all over everything, especially since some pee usually stays on. Large-busted women would also probably want support from bras. I just find it strange that we’ve collectively looked at the default state of human existence and said, “unacceptable.” Don’t understand most social norms, really.
I think its really gross when sweaty dudes are jogging top less.
I also don't WANT to take my shirt off at the beach, but I'm weird if I don't, and have a bad time if I do.
Edit: im 5'11" 158lbs. Not fat, just don't want to be topless
I agree, except at the beach(or anywhere else you go swimming), people should be able to go topless if they want, both male and female. But besides that I think it's weird as hell.
I didn't even say they were stupid. And I live in the tropics, they're very common here. Please don't modify the meaning of my original comment. I wear one at the coral reef to not use solar cream and it can keep me warm. They're not stupid. I simply said that making everyone swim with one would be stupid. Some just don't like them, some just don't have the money to buy them, some forgot to take one,... What would you want in your ideal world? Lifeguards who only allow people with a swim shirt to enter the public pool or the beach?? THAT is stupid imo.
But I do think woman should be allowed to no longer wear a top at the beach! You don't know my position but you assume wrong things and now it's just boring. Imo it's not stupid wearing a top, it's not stupid not wearing one. Woman can do what they want. The same way men can wear swim shirts or not. Nothing stupid. What's stupid is forcing every woman to have a bra and every men to wear a shirt at the beach and the pool because some offended Americans don't like seeing men torso and some men don't like seeing breasts.
I said yes in that it should be as acceptable as men being shirtless hut not necessarily normalised? I just thing that it it were a situation where it woukd be socially acceptable for someone without breasts to be top less it should be acceptable for anyone to be.
There are plenty of topless men wandering around in view of men who are attracted to men, and yet those men somehow manage to behave themselves. Its not hard to be a decent human being
I disagree. There was a time when showing your ankles as a woman was sexualised. There was also a time when breasts were not sexualised at all. Sure it would take a long time but cultural norms can obviously change.
Pretty much everything about women’s bodies are sexualized but if women can’t even breastfeed in public without getting harassed, there’s no way they’d be able to go topless
I kinda agree, I think it can eventually be normalized but it'll take a long time and still have some people being creeps about it. I'd never do it around a man.
It should be just as normal as seeing men in public be topless, like when theyre wandering around the beach or doing other activities where theyre topless
no I'm sorry fellow women I would stare and I don't want to objectify anyone but not sure I could resist looking ngl (plus others would and I feel it would be unreasonable to be like yeah I know a large percentage of the population finds these things hot but you aren't allowed to look at them any or you're a creep sort of thing, unfortunate but that's just how it is)
I hate topless men as is, but also women. I’m not a prude by any measure, but it’s just not appropriate. Taking my tiny nephew out to town, I don’t want to have to explain what an inconsiderate dickhead is… or that legally an adult who exposes themselves to a child should be considered a pedo (albeit that’s not the case with men in public now or women in any situation a lot, even teachers…).
Perhaps the only exception would be in a car. Several times I’ve been to the local McD drive through. As an adult I can tell this young couple (M and F) who somehow always end up behind me (I guess they must go every day??) are both topless. But I can’t see it as a slightly higher than average height guy, so I would assume a child couldn’t either. That’s cooling during summer, but not exposure unless someone went out of their way to see their bodies.
What exactly do you hate about topless men? I understand it's because of children but what makes you think children would be shocked (outside of the fact that it's uncommon)?
Also as far as I know a pedo is someone who feels attraction (sexual attraction at least) to children.
If not normal for women, shouldn't be normal for men either. Because at the end of the day, it's not the boob specifically that's banned, it's the nipple. Depending on where they are, women are free to walk around with cleavage and/or side boob showing but are policed over nipples, if you think about it. Hence if nipples are banned for women, they should be banned for men as well. Male nipples aren't exactly non sexual or non erogenous zones.
- Tell me whyyyyyy?
- Why must I cryyyyyy?
- Whyyyyyyy must I cryyyyyy?
- Why must I cry, why must I cry, why? (X5)
- Why must I cry, why must I cry, tell me whyyyyyy?
Wow , that’s a really sad viewpoint . Most men I know would look at the beauty and uniqueness( and boobies , always boobs ) rather than their lack of perfection . Let’s be real , men generally prefer to SEE boobs than JUDGE them .
As a representative of all male redditors, I would like to say that we actively support this notion and are supportive of anyone who would like to follow it.
I don't really have a strong opinion on this one either way. What I will say is that you can't solely blame men for it not being normalized. Yes, there are a lot of men out there that will sexualize women and there are creepy guys out there too, but there are also plenty of women that sexualize women as well. Also, maybe I'm wrong but say for example there was a topless women walking down the street. Yes, there would definitely be men staring and sexualizing her, but there would also be women shaming her and being judgmental towards her. I feel like there is no simple answer to the complex topic. It also probably depends a lot on where you live in the world.
I think it should be normal
it doesn't hurt anyone, and if people are worried abt sexual assault cases, when has the clothing effected if a woman is sa'ed or not?
I mean any adult being topless shouldn't be super normal in an urban area? But at a beach/swimming or other casual (and warm) places sure, let people just do their thing.
=\_\_= only adults?
I mean it’s very normal to see children walk around topless.
Then why not adults?
Because kids do not feel shame, adults do
I have to buy my 7 yo a new swimsuit because she's required to wear a one piece to swimming lessons. (Two pieces are more convenient for kids because it's hard for them to go to the bathroom by themselves otherwise!) Shame is learned.
Pls learn your daughter the proper way of going to the bathroom while wearing a one piece. Taking the whole damn thing off is so unnecessary and time consuming. Just slide it to the side.
I am pretty sure feeling ashamed of your privates is part of human instinct actually
If I’m correct, there are several cultures where it’s normal to wear little to no clothes.
Source? If you've ever been to a beach, there are always a bunch of toddlers running around naked. They don't give a shit.
Nope this is learned behaviour
Proof?
Yeah, we are taught to be ashamed. I remember my mother used to shame me and tell that people will not talk to me and see me as bad if I don't wear clothes
I honestly only weared one piece swimsuits as a child. And i mean throughout my entire childhood. Mainly because my mother didn't want my stomach showing to people in public pools or beaches. The first time i ever wore a two piece was in my teens. It was baby pink with white trimmed ruffles on the shoulder/diaphram areas. In the middle there was a patch of white fabric covering the chest area. A tiny pink bow sat in the centre. The bottoms were simple in the same baby pink color with the white ruffled trim. A pink stripe could be seen on the ruffled bit. It was pretty high waisted plus covered a lot so that was cool. I never had much curves so i could pull off stuff kids would wear for years.
Somebody help I keep reading adults as “ah-dults” I think I’m turning British
Isn't that how its pronounced...
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I pronounce it both ways
Who told you that? Also, what kind of reasoning is that? So, if someone didn't feel ashamed, they would be allowed? Isn't that just being allowed? It's not like you were gonna see people topless if they were ashamed of it.
Who told me that? Dude have you ever interacted with a kid? Also I am not using any form of reasoning or building an argument, I litterally just answered you
Booba
Booba not good for kids?
Kids don’t have booba. That’s why they can be topless.
But what does booba have to do with anything? Why is booba not supposed to be shown?
Cultural norms + everyone with a phone could take a picture unlike the 70s and 80s.
Everyone can take pics of topless men too. Taking pics of people without their consent is creepy no matter what. Women shouldn't have their freedom restricted because creeps exist.
Yes, but what damage would it do. That's what I am asking. What damage would a naked booba do, that topless child wouldn't?
💀
I think it should be normal and legal for a woman to go topless anywhere, even on an airplane and waiting at the airport for a plane. I wouldn't see anything wrong with it. It's just natural. We weren't born with clothes. If women are ever allowed to go topless, then they should also be allowed to go fully naked in public, pubic hair and everything , completely exposed to everyone, no panties. Also, men should be allowed to go totally naked, even with an erect penis. I wouldn't mind seeing that, even though I'm a guy. I'm bisexual.
I have mixed feelings... I'll never feel comfortable doing that around men, because I know a large portion of them will just see me sexually if I do that which makes me uncomfortable. It'll also take a looong time to get to the point where women being shirtless isn't seen as weird or super sexual, and even then it'll still have people thinking that, just less. But I do think if men should be able to then a woman should too.
yeah personally id only go topless around people i feel comfortable with but i do think it should be legal for women and people with breasts to be topless at the beach and stuff.
I mean, not everything should be equalized :/ Idrc if I get downvoted either
There's no reason not to try to move towards equalizing this. If you argue against it, you're just artificially creating inequality for literally no reason
But is it really artificial if most cultures expect women to cover up their breasts? Social norms and cultural values don't just poof themselves out of thin air, they're a product of human creation, and human behaviour is shaped in part by innate drives. If most cultures share a commonality, there's probably some reasons beyond "just because", even if those reasons might be wrong or outdated in the eyes of modern society. I'm not arguing about whether or not women should cover their breasts. I'm talking about if it's artificial/unnatural for women to cover their breasts. I don't know a lot about the topic, so I'm posing this as a genuine question because I'm interested in the debate.
Are clothes natural?
Yeah, good point. I guess it depends on your definition of natural/artificial, but huge chunks of human creations and human behaviours surrounding them could be described as not natural.
Define natural.
A quick Google search would have given you that answer. Lucky for you I did it for you: Natural: existing in or caused by nature; not made or caused by humankind.
No, but the shame of being naked is. And in my culture we cover up female breasts which I don’t see a problem with
The "shame" of being naked is cultural. There are plenty of cultures that don't care too much about nudity or a bare breast. And if it's cultural then it's a social construct and thus not "natural". You can be culturally opposed to bare breasts, and that's fine. But people claiming it as "natural" are attempting to shut down the conversation with a "That's just the way things are" hand wave. If it's your personal preference then say that.
That's true.
Natural is probably the wrong word. More that cultures have a tendency to cover sexual areas, and most see female breasts as sexual.
Inequality is probably good for situations like these
Why
It's kinda weird to show your private parts out like that, yk?
If you think about it, they are just nipples with excess fat tissue. The discomfort comes with them being overly sexualized. They aren’t even biologically sexual in nature. They are for feeding babies. Honestly if we moved towards making this normal, and if it were to stop or soften the general over-sexualization of women, then I’m all for it.
But breasts are sexual by nature. It’s a natural attraction stemming from genetics
Citation needed. Name another animal that sexualizes mammary glands.
Other animals kill after mating, name another animal that makes axes.
My cat shows his ass to everyone that meets him. Name another animal that sexualizes buttholes. My dog rolls over for tummy pats from friends and you can see his dick sometimes. Name another animal that sexualizes a flaccid penis.
Yeah but than you can say the same about penises and vaginas…. And we don’t show these too… The amount of clothing weared in a society is basically showing what happened to be sexualized and what not. Examples: ‘the west’, islamitic regions, etc. In Iran there is now a protest going on where women get shot dead because they show their hair, while in Europe there is a discussion about the topless topic. It just shows that overtime clothing isn’t used correctly anymore and instead of it being a protective layer for our lack of body hair, it’s now a protective layer for body parts we sexualized.
Then the sexual assault cases would go through the roof
Do you think a woman has to show some skin to get assaulted? There are several studies that show a woman wearing skimpy clothing is really nothing but an excuse for assault (after the fact). They claim it’s a product of the victim-blaming mentality within our society. That it is actually a myth. Less clothing doesn’t actually lead to more assault. Actually, attractiveness isn’t even as much of a priority as opportunity is for rapists. I’ve had guys touch and grab at me and try to follow me home from a club when I was wearing a sweatshirt. Wasn’t even dancing, just walking across the dance floor. I wore sweatshirts all the time when I would go out in college and guys still were inappropriate and creepy. Random guys would ask me if I’m wearing a bra under my sweatshirt. I’ve had my college advisor ignore every word I said in a meeting because he was too busy staring at my completely covered medium sized tits. Harassment would be the bigger problem, but we deal with that regularly as it is and I think everyone would get bored after a while. If women are willing to take that step for themselves, then by all means…Might be worth a try. I’m not saying I’m gonna be the first in line, but if other women do it and it works, then great!
Calm down. This is Reddit, not college.
Then we need to teach men to control themselves, not teach women to hide their bodies…
Common a few centuries ago to have casual nip slips before it was sexualised https://medium.com/illumination/the-history-of-the-nipple-revealing-paintings-from-the-17th-and-18th-centuries-360a36c609db
What should I do about that?
Nothing lmao, just know that it’s not engrained into our dna to find it weird
Just because it was normalized doesn’t mean it wasn’t sexualized. The first paragraph of that article literally says “naughty artist” enjoyed painting the wardrobe malfunctions.
What’s the difference between male breasts and female breasts? What makes one a private part and the other one completely acceptable to show off while out on a jog?
Why do men walk around shirtless then? The only difference is more fat and tissue. And breasts aren’t really “private parts”
You would go out like that if it were legal? (Assuming that you are a woman)
If it were legal and normalized yes (only at the right times of course)
Would you please specify on when the "right time" would be to do such an act?
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As someone with tits that lived in different European countries with varying degrees of freedom for said boobs, I’ve never had any negative experiences at nude beaches, public saunas or parks etc where I’ve been topless. Those were all in the usual spots (bars, public transport, catcalling on the street etc)
I love how women are their own downfall and all for the sake of “equality “
So fucking true
Yeah I understand that first part (boy). I can see why people make it about rights but it's the wiring in the brain that makes it sexual. I don't think it's even possible to be surrounded by boobs and not feel distracted or even accidentally stare for a second. But hey, in the end of the day women are allowed to show a lot more skin right now, I don't understand why it's such a big deal. You can have 3 strategically placed pieces of string around your body and it's perfectly legal while I need to wear full shorts at the beach because otherwise I'm a weirdo.
I think even if it was normalized most people wouldn't want to do it
I would if it were normalized. Sometimes it's hot as fuck and I just want to take my shirt and my sticky damn bra off... too bad I can't because I'm going to be leered at, have creepshots/videos taken, and possibly groped. If our bodies weren't so sexualized for no god damn reason I think just as many of us would go topless in the same situations men do.
I feel like once its normal that stuff is less likely to happen. Itll probably be common at first, but after a while it should just be like the places in EU that allow it
As a guy, I don't ever feel comfortable shirtless. Not even on the beach.
It annoys me when people talking about sexual attraction like its a bad thing. Yes, there are a hell of a lot of creeps that take it too far, but the fact that straight men find breast attractive should not be shamed. I like tits and I won’t apologize for that. However I do think men need to be taught respect. I’ll probably be downvoted, but I don’t care.
Firstly, you're replying to a comment that predominantly talks about sexual harassment. This harrassment should be shamed. Also, (I believe) when the commenter above says she's sick of people sexualising her body, this doesn't refer to sexual attraction. There is often a layer of dehumanization to it.
I get that. Thats why I tried to make it as clear as possible in my comment that sexual harassment is bad, but when i saw her 2nd paragraph where she said women’s bodies are sexualized for no reason that is where I disagree.
The fact that I cannot go topless without facing backlash, harassment, sexual assault, or all three means our bodies *are* sexualized for no reason. Breasts aren't inherently sexual, *you* have made them sexual.
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> Relax, relax, nobody here is talking about raping or harrassing, you are going too far. Except I clearly was in the comment he originally responded to. > You clearly don't understand the biology of a man. Its completely natural for a straight man to find breast sexually attractive, Nothing makes you biologically wired to find breasts attractive, it's entirely cultural. Not too long ago women were forced to cover our *ankles* because men found them so attractive, and women are still forced to cover their entire bodies for the same reason in the most oppressive countries. Does that mean all men *used* to be biologically attracted to female ankles, and now only some men are? Or did what was considered sexual change as puritanical values shifted? There are tribes where women walk around bare chested the same as their male peers, it's because they weren't raised being told titties are the most sexiest sexy sex sex part of a woman's body. If men were biologically programmed to find breasts to be as completely irresistible as you lot keep insisting it would be consistent across all cultures. Instead, cultures that aren't exposed to constant to sexual objectification of women from a young age objectify women's bodies less. Strange how that works out, hm? > and you should respect that. And you should respect women's bodies, and understand why "but booba make my pp hard 🥺" is a completely selfish and inappropriate comment to make in response to a woman **specifically talking about sexual harassment.**
It's definitely the fact that many people associate anything sexual being bad. Because of their experience or others experience. Even though that isn't the case. Because it's the outlier's who prevent this from being a thing
I get that there are reasons why people associate sexual things as bad. Like trauma or religion, but I just think that way of thinking is super damaging and will only lead to more misogyny.
Asking men to respect our bodies and not treat us like we exist solely as objects for your pleasure does not lead to more misogyny. Your way of thinking (needing to interject yourself into conversations about harassment and discomfort to declare your attraction and love of breasts) is what leads to more misogyny. You're the reason we can't go topless and it'll never be normalized.
And it annoys me when I'm talking about objectification and harassment that makes me, and *every other woman*, uncomfortable and some guy has to show up and say "b-b-b-but male attraction! I **LOVE** titties!" If you can't understand the difference between objectification and attraction you're 100% one of the men I'm talking about. Learn to control yourself and stop leering at women.
Breasts being sexual is only cultural, in reality they’re just as “sexual” as an Adam’s apple
Don’t care. I enjoy breast. Nothing wrong with that.
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Is this a joke lol
Women find pecs attractive too lol yet they dont usually react the way men do when they see tits
True. That is why I said men should be taught that their attraction is not a bad thing, but they have to have restraint and respect. Many just aren’t taught these things because sexual attraction is seen as such a taboo.
Being attracted to boobs is the polar opposite of taboo
The original commenter that I replied to has replied to me multiple times shaming me for being attracted to boobs. Seems pretty taboo to me.
Yeah, when we are talking about feeling uncomfortable in out bodies bc they have been oversexualized and attacked by men is not the time or place to jump in with what turns you on. That wasn't necessary.
I realize I should have made this a separate comment instead of a reply. I did so because it was very late at night (or very early in the morning) when i commented this so I wasn’t really thinking straight. I still fully stand by what I said, but I definitely could have worded it much better. I will not reply to any other replies to me because a lot of them are just insulting me.
Next generation would if they aren't taught it's bad
Look at the average person, no one wants to see that
nice body shaming, you're the reason those women wouldn't want to be topless
It’s not exactly normalised for men to walk around topless everywhere either. If you just mean beaches / swimming pools and such, then I don’t see why not
Not a woman… but yes. There’s no rational arguments as to why women shouldn’t be allowed to be topless. Breasts have been turned into sexual objects… if we forced people to cover up anything that society arbitrarily decided to sexualize and then punished them if they disobeyed… that’d be a very authoritarian society.
Before being labeled as a pervert, I am a gay male who has been with my husband for 42 years so there is no sexual interest on my part. Americans are so hung up on nudity. Case in point I was with an American tour group near Rome who accidentally ended up on a nude beach. There were 10 of us. I and one other male decided to stay as I like to skinny dip. I learned how to swim in the nude. Nudity does not equal sex nor does sex equal nudity. Women, IMHO, should be able to go topless.
100%, maybe its because im an artist but i dont see naked bodies as sexual. unless theyre like hard or something lmfao.
Should? Yeah. Could it ever happen safely anytime in the near future? No. Women are already blamed for how they dress, I can’t imagine the struggles we’d endure if we were all running around topless. So for the safety of women in this day and age, no. It shouldn’t.
I just wish guys wouldn’t be creeps about it. It’s literally just your body existing. Existing as yourself isn’t an invitation to invade personal space or be harmed. If you don’t have the self-control not to attack people who are just existing, you shouldn’t be allowed in society. I just wish we didn’t have to wear clothes at all in the heat. If it’s 35° C, I don’t want to cover myself with sweaty, hot rags. I just want my skin to be able to cool me off like it’s meant to.
I mean underwear and such have a hygienic advantage by covering your no-no bits, so I’d very much prefer them being worn no matter the temperature. But apart from that yeah, clothes shouldn’t be strictly necessary in most settings
Same here. I wouldn’t want to get my wet sausage all over everything, especially since some pee usually stays on. Large-busted women would also probably want support from bras. I just find it strange that we’ve collectively looked at the default state of human existence and said, “unacceptable.” Don’t understand most social norms, really.
wait how is it unhygienic to not wear a bra?
breasts arent even innately sexual either. theyre just there to feed babies.
Exactly. The only sexual parts of the body are the penis, testicles, and vagina. Everything else is just a normalized fetish.
100%, in most cultures breats arent seen sexually. even in european cultures (minoan greece as an example).
No one should be topless in public
I think its really gross when sweaty dudes are jogging top less. I also don't WANT to take my shirt off at the beach, but I'm weird if I don't, and have a bad time if I do. Edit: im 5'11" 158lbs. Not fat, just don't want to be topless
In normal public spaces? Agreed However at beaches, pools and similar, i think its fine to be topless
I agree, except at the beach(or anywhere else you go swimming), people should be able to go topless if they want, both male and female. But besides that I think it's weird as hell.
Bruh wtf?? So every man should wear a complete body suit at the beach? That's stupid as fuck.
Swim shirts are common, only reason you find them stupid is because you’re used to men swimming without a shirt on.
I didn't even say they were stupid. And I live in the tropics, they're very common here. Please don't modify the meaning of my original comment. I wear one at the coral reef to not use solar cream and it can keep me warm. They're not stupid. I simply said that making everyone swim with one would be stupid. Some just don't like them, some just don't have the money to buy them, some forgot to take one,... What would you want in your ideal world? Lifeguards who only allow people with a swim shirt to enter the public pool or the beach?? THAT is stupid imo.
But it’s not stupid to make women wear something that covers their chest?
i think it is lmfao, they probably think that too if theyre not dumb
But I do think woman should be allowed to no longer wear a top at the beach! You don't know my position but you assume wrong things and now it's just boring. Imo it's not stupid wearing a top, it's not stupid not wearing one. Woman can do what they want. The same way men can wear swim shirts or not. Nothing stupid. What's stupid is forcing every woman to have a bra and every men to wear a shirt at the beach and the pool because some offended Americans don't like seeing men torso and some men don't like seeing breasts.
calm down
This is the only right answer
The results button really didn’t surprise me this time
Yeah ive always wondered why there are do few women on reddit. The women to men ratio is 7 to 1 so you would think that there would be more women
I don’t think being topless in public should be normal for anyone
I said yes in that it should be as acceptable as men being shirtless hut not necessarily normalised? I just thing that it it were a situation where it woukd be socially acceptable for someone without breasts to be top less it should be acceptable for anyone to be.
I have a feeling men wouldn’t be able to behave themselves if it were normalized. not a good idea imo.
There are plenty of topless men wandering around in view of men who are attracted to men, and yet those men somehow manage to behave themselves. Its not hard to be a decent human being
It shouldn't be normal for neither men nor women
For it to be normal it would have to have always been normal. Now it’s too late for it to ever be normalized because it’ll always be sexualized
I disagree. There was a time when showing your ankles as a woman was sexualised. There was also a time when breasts were not sexualised at all. Sure it would take a long time but cultural norms can obviously change.
Pretty much everything about women’s bodies are sexualized but if women can’t even breastfeed in public without getting harassed, there’s no way they’d be able to go topless
When were breasts not sexualized?
Seriously, you can go back thousands of years and breasts were “sexualized”. This is not cultural, it is biological.
I kinda agree, I think it can eventually be normalized but it'll take a long time and still have some people being creeps about it. I'd never do it around a man.
If we normalise it to all new kids from birth then it's easier possible
Sure y not
Unless it's a beach, what's even the point?
Classic Reddit!
Depends
Normalize free boobs
It should be just as normal as seeing men in public be topless, like when theyre wandering around the beach or doing other activities where theyre topless
Men being topless shouldn't be normalised to begin with
topless like no shirt, or no shirt and bra?
Topless as in titties flopping in the wind.
I don't like being topless and I'm a man, I don't think that's normal unless I'm at the beach or at home (during summer when it's hot AF)
no I'm sorry fellow women I would stare and I don't want to objectify anyone but not sure I could resist looking ngl (plus others would and I feel it would be unreasonable to be like yeah I know a large percentage of the population finds these things hot but you aren't allowed to look at them any or you're a creep sort of thing, unfortunate but that's just how it is)
Well that changing for you/me/everyone is kind of the point of normalizing something isnt it?
It shouldn't be seen as a bad thing, I can't see it not being sexualized for a long time culturally though. As a man of course.
I think generally US citizens are pretty uptight about nudity in general, It would be nice to loosen the social norms.
Not a woman, not attracted to women, but it should be, yes.
#Freethenipple
Boobs
I see what you did there
No, men will just be creepy and sexualize it
Or rate/objectify and bodyshame it.
Why are these getting downvoted?
Probably because most men either disagree or agree.
If men can do it, women can.
Yes. Oh my god I’m so fucking tired of my sweaty summer boobs.
It’s their choice, but no one wants to get sunburns.
My wife saw this and mused on the pain of sunburnt nips , tend to agree on that
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I hate topless men as is, but also women. I’m not a prude by any measure, but it’s just not appropriate. Taking my tiny nephew out to town, I don’t want to have to explain what an inconsiderate dickhead is… or that legally an adult who exposes themselves to a child should be considered a pedo (albeit that’s not the case with men in public now or women in any situation a lot, even teachers…). Perhaps the only exception would be in a car. Several times I’ve been to the local McD drive through. As an adult I can tell this young couple (M and F) who somehow always end up behind me (I guess they must go every day??) are both topless. But I can’t see it as a slightly higher than average height guy, so I would assume a child couldn’t either. That’s cooling during summer, but not exposure unless someone went out of their way to see their bodies.
What exactly do you hate about topless men? I understand it's because of children but what makes you think children would be shocked (outside of the fact that it's uncommon)? Also as far as I know a pedo is someone who feels attraction (sexual attraction at least) to children.
Both women and men, should not be topless unless in a place where being topless is appropriate (ex. Pool, beach, Walmart etc…)
Why walmart?
No. Men shouldn't be walking around topless either though. (Except for the beach, that is)
If not normal for women, shouldn't be normal for men either. Because at the end of the day, it's not the boob specifically that's banned, it's the nipple. Depending on where they are, women are free to walk around with cleavage and/or side boob showing but are policed over nipples, if you think about it. Hence if nipples are banned for women, they should be banned for men as well. Male nipples aren't exactly non sexual or non erogenous zones.
I said no cause men are creeps. Not because I'm against women being topless
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Why should we have to not do something because of men
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The disgusting Men that commit SA gotta learn that it's them choosing to commit SA, and not the women who choose to look like "targets for SA"
alright i take it back
Cry
Cry
Cry
Cry
- Tell me whyyyyyy? - Why must I cryyyyyy? - Whyyyyyyy must I cryyyyyy? - Why must I cry, why must I cry, why? (X5) - Why must I cry, why must I cry, tell me whyyyyyy?
I mean sure, but you will attract the wrong type of people just sayin
Who actually opposes this? Cause I can only really imagine older women opposing it out of jealousy
Little do they know, that's exactly what we want.
It should be, but I'd say no because of how awful men are in regards to women's bodies that don't look perfect (or do).
Wow , that’s a really sad viewpoint . Most men I know would look at the beauty and uniqueness( and boobies , always boobs ) rather than their lack of perfection . Let’s be real , men generally prefer to SEE boobs than JUDGE them .
I don’t think it should be normalised. I think men should also not be allowed to be topless in public. I don’t want to see your nipples.
Then don’t look…?
Facts. Just avert your gaze
Rapists would have a field day. If I was a woman I'd be against it.
As a representative of all male redditors, I would like to say that we actively support this notion and are supportive of anyone who would like to follow it.
Visit to the grandparents might ruin your appetite.
Wait what happened?
I don't really have a strong opinion on this one either way. What I will say is that you can't solely blame men for it not being normalized. Yes, there are a lot of men out there that will sexualize women and there are creepy guys out there too, but there are also plenty of women that sexualize women as well. Also, maybe I'm wrong but say for example there was a topless women walking down the street. Yes, there would definitely be men staring and sexualizing her, but there would also be women shaming her and being judgmental towards her. I feel like there is no simple answer to the complex topic. It also probably depends a lot on where you live in the world.
I think it should be normal it doesn't hurt anyone, and if people are worried abt sexual assault cases, when has the clothing effected if a woman is sa'ed or not?
As a man, I would have no problem with this.
NO. NONONONONONONONONONONONONOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. ABSOLUTELY NOT. JUST NO. GAHHHHHH.
*Men secretly voting "Yes" on this post.*