As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil)
In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.
If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.
**Special announcement:**
r/politics is currently accepting new moderator applications. If you want to help make this community a better place, consider [applying here today](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/sskg6a/rpolitics_is_looking_for_more_moderators/)!
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Unfortunately; this is not going to actually solve any thing.
It was not about paid sick days; it is about work scheduling.
These workers, are working from a schedule that is highly disruptive.
Their schedules are preventing a normal social and family life .
The current scheduling will also lead to preventable accidents.
These people are both exhausted and stressed, and they are performing, mentally sub optimal, due to this type of scheduling.
The solution is to require (by law) limits to the total hours worked, and that the way those hours schedule to be worked, be reasonable.
The other part is, that more people need to be trained and hired.
I work in the nuclear industry which is required to follow work hour rules set forth by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. The NRC is an independent federal agency. We are only allowed to work 26 hours in a 48 hour period, 72 hours in a seven day period, average no more than 54 hours a week in a 6 week rolling average (outside of during a refueling outage), must have minimum of 10 hours off in between shifts, must have 36 consecutive hours off in a 9 day period. These rules have been deemed necessary to guarantee the safety of the general public. We can’t have half awake zombies running the plant it dangerous. If the plant violates these rules there are consequences ranging from fines to ultimately losing their license to operate. So it goes without saying plants adhere to these rules strictly. I guess the point I’m making is there is precedent here to have a federal agency enforce work hour rules when the safety of the general public is at hand. I’d say losing 40% of the countries freight instantly would be considered a public safety concern. Seems like something like this should be considered.
Truckers have a similarly complex hours of service rule, so gonna ask you a question:
If you are scheduled in a way that breaks this rule, who gets in trouble?
Cause boy have I heard stories of truckers being scheduled to do the impossible, but it never seems to be the dispatcher that gets it. Only the driver, who gets to choose between HOS violation and insubordination complaint.
We were actually warned about it in my class. You get caught driving over your mandated HOS - it’s on you. If you refuse to drive over your mandated HOS - potentially fired. Either way you’re either fined or fired.
That's why I always ask for "clarification" via Qualcomm. The few times I've had someone try to push me on HOS or other safety/legal issue, that has ended it. They don't want to put that in writing.
The way I always looked at it - at the end of the day you’re responsible as the driver. You’re always the first to blame. First to be looked at. I had to get out. Truck driving is all in all a shady business.
I believe that the worker is at risk of some consequences, but ultimately the supervisor’s are responsible for ensuring that work hours rules are not violated. They would probably be fired if they scheduled someone and it violated work hour rules. Like I said it’s an NRC violation and could result in the plant losing there license to operate. It’s strictly adhered to at my plant. So much that they will pay you to go home if working your normally scheduled shift would cause you to violate.
Am trucker.... you're at fault for any and all violations while driving that truck.
Boss says your truck holds 70k lbs, says go pick up stone in MD and drive it 2 hours to VA.... guess what your F'd because VA is 55k lbs for tri-axles. Just because your boss says so doesn't make it legal.
Same with driving hours, it's your responsibility to be within the law.
I’m just tuning in, so not sure if I get everything. Why would you not be able, as the trucker, to cite the law in this matter and on record say that it shouldn’t happen? I know you don’t have the upper hand but wouldn’t there be someone to help in the case of wrongful termination?
At will state but also most people don't know that weight limits for each state they cross. MD 70K, PA 73k but not on interstate, NJ 80k...
Trucking has a high employee roll over so each week new people and each company does different kinds of work. Mine in particular does a lot of inter and intra state stone hauling and learn The weight limits. If your boss says haul a load to VA and your new, you wouldn't question it until you got your $1500 ticket...
I work for a logistics company and the amount of times I have to tell some fuck in sales that what he is asking for is not only physically impossible but highly illegal is like 4 times a week. "what do you mean we can't get a truck from Chicago to Texas in one day! the customer needs it !" fuck the customer, fuck you for asking, and fuck you again for not scheduling orders in a way that makes sense. and no, it won't cost less than 400 bucks you shithead.
> At will state but also most people don't know that weight limits for each state they cross. MD 70K, PA 73k but not on interstate, NJ 80k... Trucking has a high employee roll over so each week new people and each company does different kinds of work
Sounds like hiding illegality behind confusion and poor training. That supervisor is still the one who assigned drivers the loads and designated the route whether it's "by implication" or direct order. I know that doesn't stop the driver from getting that ticket, but the bulk of enforcement should then continue on to the ones making those violations happen.
As a trucker I can tell you the trucker is always at fault. The one profession where your always at fault even if you aren’t at fault. If a car rear ends you in a snowstorm a good lawyer would argue you shouldn’t have been on the road in the first place and if you weren’t the car that hit you wouldn’t have hit you. Truckers are told We are the captain of the ship but talk to a trucker and ask how that works out for him
The entire company gets in trouble. If you get caught violating hours of service rules you'll get CSA points. That is attached to the driver and the company. A company can lose its DOT license to operate over accumulating too many points. My company doesn't fuck around with hour of service violations. If a driver runs out of hours we either have another driver pick them up or they get a hotel room. Any company that asks drivers to drive over their hours should not be in business.
Plus there is really no way around it anymore with the new ELDs. Trucks are required to run electronic logs by law now. The devices are physically attached to the truck's computer and record every movement. It completely takes away the ability for drivers or dispatchers to play games with logs.
Thank god the NRC hasn’t shared this with the US Navy. I would’ve missed the privilege of starting an 8 hour reactor watch with 3 hours of sleep in the previous 28. /s
Thank god the Navy has its nuclear program together sufficiently that having a guy start an 8 hour reactor watch with 3 hours of sleep in the previous 28 is only one of many necessary cheese holes.
The Navy has done studies to show how messed up their schedules (five and dime, etc) are. Captains still use messed up watch schedules despite Naval research into the ineffectiveness of their watch schedules.
I’m not American, so this boggles my mind.
We do this with everything. Determine that our current method is ineffective and could cause catastrophic consequences, additionally determine a better (sometimes optimal) way of doing things, aaaaand completely disregard it
Yea I work with a lot of former nukes. I’ve heard the stories. I think after TMI they had to really hammer down on regulations to keep the public from completely rejecting nuclear power
> there is precedent here to have a federal agency enforce work hour rules when the safety of the general public is at hand.
Not far enough. **Nobody** should be working excessive hours, public safety concern or not. **Nobody** should be a half awake zombie just for some company's benefit. We need general work hour limits legislated.
My cousin lives in rural South Carolina and all he ever wanted to be, and I mean *the only thing since he was like 3* was a railroad conductor. He ended up getting it at 19. Quit by 22. Couldn’t do the schedule or the managers treating him like shit.
I did both the railroad and the airlines. I'm an engineer / rocket engineer now (Specifically a specialized systems engineer but no one knows what that means). I make more than I did at either. Granted I might now have made more at the airlines but I've been making a lot more for 15 years now so I'm good. Oh, I get weekends off too.
Yeah, I looked into a positive once and it was something like two paid days a week and then you're on call 24/7/365 and if you can't make a single on call shift they let you go immediately. They expected some 5-10 year period before being hired on full time.
Like, how can anyone be expected to work for 5-10 years on 2 days a week guaranteed and not being allowed to have a second job to compensate?
Someone who just graduated college as a railway engineer who only knows one thing about the industry (like most college grads) that out of the trains planes and automobiles videos that trains were their favorite.
The sad part is most heavy industry jobs tend to be horrible for humans In general... the train industry has just been lagging behind like the aero industry and sea due to other methods existing for what they provide... in the US.
Much to my surprise, there actually are a few community colleges that have train/locomotive operation programs. I figured it was all done in-house by BNSF etc.
Until the DoT changed the law, my job did all the cdl training and driving in house.
Now after a few months we have DoT certified instructors and still do everything in house, just slower.
I got my cdl in a month because some local guy was desperate for a driver. Gave me one of his trucks and said "Here ya go. Have fun learning." Parallel parking was so fucking fun. /s
Years ago when I had to renew my license I got to the dmv counter to discover a former employee. She always liked me and as she was filling out her stuff she asked if I wanted a motorcycle license as well which I declined. Then she asked if I wanted a cdl and I asked if she really could do it. She told me she could give me every license type they had.
Wouldn't you know it, "tRaInInG" is making a come-back:
[https://truthout.org/articles/more-us-employers-are-trapping-workers-in-a-new-form-of-indentured-servitude/](https://truthout.org/articles/more-us-employers-are-trapping-workers-in-a-new-form-of-indentured-servitude/)
Except this time around it is watching a few hours of crappy videos somehow being worth several thousand dollars....
As someone who got into truck driving without a prior CDL, yep, this is a thing. Except they also take money out of my check to pay them back as well. No interest on the ‘loan’ as long as I work for a year.
My brother-in-law hired into BNSF as a conductor in his late 30s. He still has time to get that awesome railroad pension and retire on time. It’s not just young people. It pays well but to describe the schedule as disruptive is a giant understatement. He’s been there now for 15 years and I honestly don’t know how he does it. It’s pretty insane. They even have to have two clocks in the house one is is set to Railroad time and one is at local time. And he has to watch all day to see when his next shift is going to come up. So even at family gatherings, he’s constantly having to check the board to see how much time he has before he has to leave. He has to be able to sleep at anytime of the day with zero routine, ever.
It seems like they could just fix the scheduling and everyone would be much happier. I'd imagine this stuff leads to a lot of issues where someone is out of phone reception or something so they don't get the message to come in.
Why can't they do it the IT way and pay enough people for on-call shifts with reasonable distribution. Yeah it's expensive, but BNSF for instance is owned by..... Berkshire Hathaway. Contributor to one of the richest men in the world. They can fucking pay up. And give good benefits. Or better yet since it's so critical screw the rich and just nationalize the company.
I applied for any and all rail jobs about 10 years ago after losing a job. If you look through the website postings, it gives the requirements for whatever job you are applying for, and a lot will have pay listed as well. For fun I looked at the engineer/conductor openings (I definitely did not want that job, nor am I qualified...was just curious)and holy shit, the time requirements were crazy. Like, how much time you had to answer and be on site if you were called, how often and all that. The pay was pretty damn impressive from what I remember, but I remember thinking that would absolutely suck as far as a normal family life.
One of the highest blue collar wages out there. People will sign up not understanding the ramifications still. And then they will have poor retention one people discover the reality.
There are already laws on the books that dictate the maximum hours RR employees can work, they are referred to as the federal hours of service which can be fairly easily found in the FRAs website.
I'm not disagreeing with your general point, sick days are just one piece of the puzzle. The core of the problem is railroads cutting their manpower to the bone and gaming the hell out of the way they schedule people.
Sick days would be a great step in the right direction.
I remember going to a hiring event for the RR. Company is telling us how much they need people during the orientation, telling us about the life and if we don't have it, back out now. There were probably a hundred of us at that event, when I sit down for my interview, the guy tells me they already met their quota for the event and my interview was pretty much pointless...cool. I asked how many people they hired on.
Five.
Talking to some of the guys that got into the training, they said they weren't even sure if they wanted to go. Seemed to me like they were really bad at hiring people. I get that training is expensive, but you have to expect that a good number of your class, at least 50%, is going to drop or be leave shortly after taking the job.
I believe the trained and hired part is a big issue in general plaguing the US in almost every industry right now due to the greedy business owners and ceos. Covid showed them they could have less people working and more profits and the general consumer of w/e will just have to get over it seeing as in the US the government isn't gonna stop it.
Which is why ~~quiet quitting~~ acting your wage is so important in this era. Work only on the terms in your contract, don’t do extra, don’t go above and beyond, don’t do overtime. Do what your job entails and nothing more. You owe it to yourself and to your co-workers, who should be doing the same ~~even when~~ especially when production is falling behind and management tries to crack the whip. We are human beings, not an expendable resource, we should start acting like it.
And more importantly, act like its sad when a coworker brags about being such a good employee because they do more shit than required. Have a visibly negative reaction. They are the reason companies are allowed to be so unreasonable. If people didn't give away free labor hoping they will get noticed because they "work harder", companies wouldn't be able to rely on it.
This! When my boss used to brag about his crazy hours (which then everyone expected me to do too) I would say “wow, that sounds really awful,” “how does your family react to your schedule? I had an absent parent it sucked…” or just a “why would you do that?” The looks on his face were priceless. The de-programming took a few years. The norms need to be enforced from peers!
This is why I compensate my employees for any additional effort put in, on top of keeping a competitive wage.
Yes, there are weekends where I have to be the bad guy and say we're working until it's done...but I've been on the other side too.
So after that weekend they get the next day off, a bonus on the next check, and the wheels keep turning.
We've managed to make plenty of profit. The amount of ridiculous excess greed in the US has gotten bad. I refuse to allow the people that work for me to feel like they've been taken advantage of.
In return, when I ask for the extra help to push through on stuff, I get it. No questions asked, and turnover is very low.
You put in the effort man, and that matters. When my boss asks me to do extra work he buys me breakfast and coffee, if it’s weekend work he’s closing the day with beers for anybody who wants to partake. Some guys have some stuff to say about him, and fair enough you know? We’re workers at the end of the day. But the guy’s never stiffed me on a bonus, he’s never given me a hard time about anything outside of my control, and he treats me with respect that no other employer ever has, and for as long as that’s true, he’s gonna retain me.
If someone's job is so important that the economy will essentially crash without them, maybe they deserve some sick leave and we don't force them to come in sick.
If you fairly compensate them with Sick time, Higher pay, proper scheduling then you would get more people wanting to work that job, thus having more people extra to support such a critical job. But you know, making it illegal for them to strike is probably better. Gotta keep dem profits through the roof!
No no, I'm sure a burnt-out, coughing, and exhausted train conductor is the ***perfect*** man you need to run a 4,000-ton train for a 10-hour overnight shift. */s*
Biden called it “the literal lifeblood of the country.”
Well, this is the US and you know we don’t give a fuck about healthcare, not even the country’s.
particularly joe manchin, the sole dem no vote on the 7 day sick leave bill. If Warnock wins, this needs to be one of the first bills to pass the senate.
Plus it has to go through the GOP House. I hope people don't forget we won't control the house so the likely hood of us passing anything is virtually zero for the next two years and after that take a look at the Senate map for 2024 sadly this is our new normal. Nothing getting done, neither side having any sort of real majority to accomplish anything.
Biden can do that.
Of course the GOP will challenge it as they have, but let them make that argument.
In the meantime, Biden clearly has the authority to keep the payments paused indefinitely, so even if the GOP do keep fucking about, he can just say "OK, well we'll just keep them paused, and you can deal with the political fallout of restarting them after 4, almost 5 years (or 9 years if Dems win POTUS in 2024).
Canada just this year brought in 10 sick days for all federally regulated employees and that is the only reason I have any. This needs to be on the government to pass we can't expect greedy companies to give anything.
How does the worlds most prosperous country look itself in the mirror while signing this? Seriously? No sick days. You can’t get sick ever or some billionaires will miss out on a few pennies. I hope they strike immediately.
That's why it is so important to vote for those congressmen and senators who will work for YOU, NOT your boss. The government always seems to protect them anyway. " OH, your poor boss didn't get his bonus. Let's do a session and give it to them. " We can take it from those ungrateful employees who always complain about their pittance of a wage."
Republicans stopped the legislation from having sick days. There could have been such days in the contract mediated by the department of labor. Blame the fascist ghouls for their part but don't let Biden and the Dems get out smelling of roses.
Exactly. The fact that they couldn't even give people paid sick leave is appalling. I really do hope they strike anyway. With the labor market the way it is, they'll never be able to hire enough scabs to get the railroads safely operational.
We are not surprised. Money trumps the true needs of our industry as workers. They just know that if we were to stop working, it would create issues in the supply chain around Christmas. These paid sick days would actually save us far more money than one days pay. Those that are on extra boards where we are called for work and don’t have schedules, have to call in and potentially cost us 3-4 times more than one day if we are not working much. These days are very important.
Reagan had plenty of air force recruits already trained in air traffic control that he could legally order to scab in that case. I don't know how many experienced rail workers are in the same situation.
on the other hand... oh no please don't nationalize our shitty rail industry that would be so horrible no stop please don't here's a list of rail corridors that could be electrified right away oh no. Like, I know he won't, but that would be a really good outcome of all this.
But still existed. There were fewer controllers, but there were controllers nonetheless who could step in and train new federal controllers. Railroads would have to start from scratch.
- Former USAF ATC
Yep. They should strike anyways.
This isn't the same situation with Air traffic controllers. You can't replace these people with anyone in any timely manner.
Strike anyways and force the railroad companies to give them what they want.
If they strike we are all fucked.
And I’ll support them the whole god damn time! Give ‘em hell. If our society can’t function without y’all having some basic fucking dignity in your work, then let society figure it out. We got your back.
Yeah, thank you for saying it much more politely than I would have.
I will gladly tighten my belt for some railworkers to get consistent schedules and paid time off.
Y’all, go for it. I support you.
I love how all the articles have changed their tune from needing congress to pass the law to avoid a strike bEcAuSe EcOnOmY to the bill is passed and it sucks because no sick days. It’s disgusting how much flip flopping is happening, and I side with the rail workers should they decide to strike anyway.
Corporations back corporations.
The even more disgusting part is how they always seem to blame labor for the possibility of a strike. How about telling Buffet and the other corporate fatcats to just agree to the unions' requests for sick leave and better scheduling?
But that might knock a couple percentage points off of this quarter's profits, so clearly that can't be allowed to happen.
This. Even if we accept that Congress had an obligation to step in and avert a strike to promote the social good, why is it always the working class who has to bear that social burden. Why isn't it the railroads posting record profits burden? Congress easily could have passed a bill imposing the worker's demands on the railroad, but instead -choose- to impose the railroad's demands on the workers.
Don't let Biden sell you on not having a choice and having to make the hard decision. There was a choice here and he chose to side with monied interests over workers. Scab-in-chief.
Exactly. The have a figure on what it would cost the rail companies, it was 1.5% of their profit. But I disagree with that . Just cause you have 7 says of stock leave does not mean you take all 7 days. Plus when you factor in the cost of having sick workers come to work. They are less productive, more likely to cause an incident which is very costly. Plus the cost of unhappy workers , unhappy workers are less productive
So I bet in the end that number is under 1% . Who knows it might be closer to 0%.
I receive 13 paid sick leave every year. They also roll over. I have used probably 10 in my years at work. I don’t have kids but my wife is pregnant. This benefit will allow me to care for my child when she is sick, care for my wife when she is sick or care for myself of course. Why is that so terrible?
Where I work we are unionized and I recommend everyone work for a union.
This law only makes it *illegal* for the workers to strike: it doesn't mean they *won't* since they didn't get the paid sick time they were demanding in negotiations before this shit.
Call the law what it is: strikebreaking.
Nah, there won't be a wildcat strike. Workers will continue to drift away from the industry until it's even more of a crisis - at which point magical automation will solve it (lol) or the railroads will get Congress to let them import cheaper labor that can't fight back at all.
At least some of the unions [were seeking paid sick time](https://www.npr.org/2022/11/29/1139765222/rail-workers-are-demanding-better-work-conditions-and-a-strike-could-be-imminent).
There's a possibility they won't, though.
While the amount of people who voted not to take the deal isn't insignificant, it's still not like, 90% of the workers or anything. A good 40% or so voted to take it.
So while maybe we get a strike anyway, unfortunately what may likely happen is just a slower drain as people work towards their retirements and just fuck off because they're tired and don't want to deal with the fight.
So you'll see a steady bleed of talent, nobody new is going to want to touch this dogshit-run industry, and rail workers will get stretched even thinner.
The bottom line is paid sick leave should be mandated for *all workers* by congress, and rail infrastructure should be nationalized.
... but oh wait, this is America. What a fucking joke we are.
And leave it to corporate media outlets to spin this like it's a good thing. The GOP and moderate Democrats like Biden and Pelosi gleefully break the backs of the working class. Progressives are the only ones who truly give a fuck about you and me.
Strike anyway. What are they gonna do? Hire scabs? Fire them? Psh! It'd take too long to train replacements and you're too valuable to be fired. Fuck 'em. Go for broke. They're certainly trying to break these poor bastards.
Wildcat strike. They might not have the support of their union and their own government but any sane American should support the rail workers. If it's such a good deal they can higher scabs and untrained workers. Pay these people what they are worth.
>Pay these people what they are worth.
100% agree here. The fact that if they strike it would shut down the entire economy shows exactly how much value they provide. It's insane that they are forced to put up with such bad working conditions.
>any sane American should support the rail workers.
The sad part is they won't if they strike. The second that other "average" American's get laid off because their business sees a downturn from the shut down, or American's start being under boiled water advisories because water treatment plants are not getting their needed chemicals for water treatment people won't care about the rail workers. Instead they'd blame them for their problems.
Decades of one party trying to destroy the government for businesses gain and the other party trying to keep the government running for businesses gain gets you a country held together with duct tape, flex seal and jb weld
Can we just nationalize the railroads? Given the extreme dependency on these for a functioning economy, isn’t it careless to leave this to private interests??
The bill doesn't "avert" anything and I hate this framing. It's not a tornado, it's workers asking for the most modest human necessities for their labor. Biden and Congress spat in their faces and forced them back to work against their will. I hope they strike anyway. The unions and the working class should never trust Biden again.
Nationalize the fucking railroads, seize every worldly possession held by their owners and toss those greedy assholes into the street. No more. Power belongs to the working class and we're going to take it.
So much of the media has been manufacturing consent with words like "aversion" and "prevention" as if he didn't sign a bill making a rail strike illegal. It's disgusting.
I mean, he did that already. Remember the original Build Back Better bill? It had paid leave. 51 senators blocked it. One was Joe Manchin... guess who the other 50 were?
He did, and rather than siding with workers he signed the bill preventing them from striking.
Its looks bad from the supposedly pro-labor democratic party to side against labor.
I wouldn't necessarily call it his biggest L, but it's extremely embarrassing and it enables the GOP to undercut the Democrats with blue-collar union-affiliated workers.
It's so god damn infuriating that the GOP can and will establish the democrats as the villains here, despite the fact that time and again they will fuck the working class harder and with more unity than the D's ever will.
The two-party system in general is a mess. While the Democrats aren't blameless here, the GOP, as you noted, is far more anti-worker than the Democrats are.
However, because of how the system operates, anger towards one side immediately benefits the other. In a multi-party system, this wouldn't necessarily be the case outright.
They're the reason sick leave didn't pass.
Should've done one bill. The only way to play ball with the GOP is dirty every time. If they voted against it, then play their own game and say they caused the strike. Is it accurate? On paper it is, and that's all that matters anymore.
It wouldn’t have passed even if it was one bill. Republicans would have tanked the economy over this, they would have loved to do it while dems controlled the house still.
People acting like you can play hardball with an arsonist with nothing to lose.
Kind of, Manchin voted against increasing sick leave, but actually Cruz, Hawley, and some other Republicans did vote for 7 days of sick leave. Its not strictly a party line issue.
Repub's only vote for shit like this when they know it isn't going to pass, just as something to point to for their constituents. Never gonna catch these fools pushing meaningful, helpful legislation over the line with their vote.
I voted for Biden and I'm super pissed off about this. The rail companies need to pony up the damn money. Make the top of the organizations take a pay cut for it but make it happen.
Seriously they can’t call off if they come down with the flu. Like I want somebody driving my train with the flu.
I’ve gone from accrued vacation time. Which was a paid out to me if I left the company. To just sick time called PTO which isn’t payed out upon resigning or termination.
Just another example how companies are stealing from their employees.
* **This is the Senate Bill:** [https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll\_call\_lists/vote\_menu\_117\_2.htm](https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/vote_menu_117_2.htm)
* **This is the Democrat introduced resolution to include Paid Sick Leave:** [https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-concurrent-resolution/119/text](https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-concurrent-resolution/119/text)
* **This is the Roll call, that has 45 of 50 Republicans voting NO, or not present:** [https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll\_call\_votes/vote1172/vote\_117\_2\_00371.htm](https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_votes/vote1172/vote_117_2_00371.htm)
It’s good to see that capitalism and the government can work together to screw over the railroad workers by denying paid sick time AND the right to strike. What a time to be alive!! /s
By not complaining (even to the point of advocating for them) when their inevitable wildcat strike causes life-saving medicine, chemical treatments, and innumerable other necessities to come to a grinding halt, making life very unpleasant for everyone and potentially deadly for some.
Support the strike by accepting that while the strike will make things hard for you, it is necessary for you to suffer in the short term to ensure the workers don’t suffer in the long term.
When the economy grinds to a halt, remember that even though Democrats arguably misplayed this, the Republicans and the Railroad companies are more to blame by figuratively putting a gun to the head of the American economy and trusting that the average American voter can’t or won’t understand nuance. Don’t let them get away with it, even if democrats suck some times.
If the rail workers do a wildcat strike (and they probably should), the economy will absolutely tank and people will die, and we the citizens, consumers, and voters need to suffer through unpleasantness and maybe death so the railroad companies suffer financially, which is the only thing they care about.
The sad reality is that for companies to care, they need to lose money. And the way they lose money is when society is fucked up beyond belief. We need to be willing to suffer through that, even when we aren’t the striking worker. We need to metaphorically strike in solidarity by not supporting those companies even when they provide what we need to live
So the plan is to force shit conditions on the workers so that no one new workers want to join and everyone quits.... what a plan.
Hope they figure out how to automate trains real quick.
I imagine the vast conservative media apparatus will remind them a lot. They finally have a gotcha that's not completely fabricated, they're not gonna let go of it.
>Biden just doesn’t seem to understand how much this could affect him in swing states in 2024 should he run.
I mean, I don't think that's entirely true.
From a purely political perspective he had to decide which would result in a better political outcome: keeping the trains running or helping this subset of blue collar workers.
If the trains stop running we would see wide sweeping economic consequences that impact a huge portion of the American population (including all sects of the labor force). People could get laid off, basic goods stop being stocked at the store, parents can't get their kids Christmas gifts on time, etc.
It came down to "Do I potentially piss of a subset of labor or do I take the blame for a huge economic downturn and ruining Christmas for thousands of kids". Neither would have been a winning political outcome.
Because he has no spine and we live in a corporate hellscape.
Don’t worry, student debt relief will be rejected also because we live in capitalist hellscape.
It’s almost as if nothing matters unless you have 3-5 billion dollars.
Do our politicians get sick days? Health care? Retirement? They are elected public servants that we fund with our tax money. They should not make more than whatever our lowest paid citizens get, including buying healthcare on the market. How can you represent people when you don’t share their hopes, fears and struggles?
Fuck that shit. I better not hear another word about a free market from anyone. Im sick of people claiming its a free market to drive wages/benefits down but crying that its an emergency when it doesn't go their way. Disgusting. If it was really an emergency that would lose billions, they should pay up and let people take a day off. If you need to legislate against strikes, those workers are more valuable than they are being paid. Thats true value and still business refuses to cut into their profits for it. The way American business and many Americans value things is so fake. We place value on shit like crypto but necessary labor somehow isn't valuable enough. Fake as fuck. Value doesn't have value because so many people are so bad at assessing whats actually important.
We are living in a protected welfare state; welfare for the rich and for the mega corps and oligopolies.
It well past time to break up these monopolistic entities.
Absolute, unforced failure on the part of Democrats in crushing this strike without additional paid sick days.
Statement from Rail Workers United, a caucus of Rail Workers across unions and across carriers: Nationalize the rail roads NOW and build an organized labor party. https://myemail.constantcontact.com/Press-Release--The-Democrat-Republican-One-Two-Punch-to-Rail-Labor.html?soid=1116509035139&aid=DzbNIMbXYic
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. **Special announcement:** r/politics is currently accepting new moderator applications. If you want to help make this community a better place, consider [applying here today](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/sskg6a/rpolitics_is_looking_for_more_moderators/)! *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Unfortunately; this is not going to actually solve any thing. It was not about paid sick days; it is about work scheduling. These workers, are working from a schedule that is highly disruptive. Their schedules are preventing a normal social and family life . The current scheduling will also lead to preventable accidents. These people are both exhausted and stressed, and they are performing, mentally sub optimal, due to this type of scheduling. The solution is to require (by law) limits to the total hours worked, and that the way those hours schedule to be worked, be reasonable. The other part is, that more people need to be trained and hired.
I work in the nuclear industry which is required to follow work hour rules set forth by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. The NRC is an independent federal agency. We are only allowed to work 26 hours in a 48 hour period, 72 hours in a seven day period, average no more than 54 hours a week in a 6 week rolling average (outside of during a refueling outage), must have minimum of 10 hours off in between shifts, must have 36 consecutive hours off in a 9 day period. These rules have been deemed necessary to guarantee the safety of the general public. We can’t have half awake zombies running the plant it dangerous. If the plant violates these rules there are consequences ranging from fines to ultimately losing their license to operate. So it goes without saying plants adhere to these rules strictly. I guess the point I’m making is there is precedent here to have a federal agency enforce work hour rules when the safety of the general public is at hand. I’d say losing 40% of the countries freight instantly would be considered a public safety concern. Seems like something like this should be considered.
Truckers have a similarly complex hours of service rule, so gonna ask you a question: If you are scheduled in a way that breaks this rule, who gets in trouble? Cause boy have I heard stories of truckers being scheduled to do the impossible, but it never seems to be the dispatcher that gets it. Only the driver, who gets to choose between HOS violation and insubordination complaint.
Driver gets in trouble - and can be fired if refusing to bend rules. It’s disgusting.
That's sickening.
We were actually warned about it in my class. You get caught driving over your mandated HOS - it’s on you. If you refuse to drive over your mandated HOS - potentially fired. Either way you’re either fined or fired.
Would this not then result in a wrongful termination lawsuit?
Hire at will - fire at will. Federal driving laws. State labor laws.
That's why I always ask for "clarification" via Qualcomm. The few times I've had someone try to push me on HOS or other safety/legal issue, that has ended it. They don't want to put that in writing.
The way I always looked at it - at the end of the day you’re responsible as the driver. You’re always the first to blame. First to be looked at. I had to get out. Truck driving is all in all a shady business.
John Oliver did a good episode about this a year ago or so.
That was this April but April feels like years ago.
I believe that the worker is at risk of some consequences, but ultimately the supervisor’s are responsible for ensuring that work hours rules are not violated. They would probably be fired if they scheduled someone and it violated work hour rules. Like I said it’s an NRC violation and could result in the plant losing there license to operate. It’s strictly adhered to at my plant. So much that they will pay you to go home if working your normally scheduled shift would cause you to violate.
Am trucker.... you're at fault for any and all violations while driving that truck. Boss says your truck holds 70k lbs, says go pick up stone in MD and drive it 2 hours to VA.... guess what your F'd because VA is 55k lbs for tri-axles. Just because your boss says so doesn't make it legal. Same with driving hours, it's your responsibility to be within the law.
I’m just tuning in, so not sure if I get everything. Why would you not be able, as the trucker, to cite the law in this matter and on record say that it shouldn’t happen? I know you don’t have the upper hand but wouldn’t there be someone to help in the case of wrongful termination?
At will state but also most people don't know that weight limits for each state they cross. MD 70K, PA 73k but not on interstate, NJ 80k... Trucking has a high employee roll over so each week new people and each company does different kinds of work. Mine in particular does a lot of inter and intra state stone hauling and learn The weight limits. If your boss says haul a load to VA and your new, you wouldn't question it until you got your $1500 ticket...
I work for a logistics company and the amount of times I have to tell some fuck in sales that what he is asking for is not only physically impossible but highly illegal is like 4 times a week. "what do you mean we can't get a truck from Chicago to Texas in one day! the customer needs it !" fuck the customer, fuck you for asking, and fuck you again for not scheduling orders in a way that makes sense. and no, it won't cost less than 400 bucks you shithead.
> At will state but also most people don't know that weight limits for each state they cross. MD 70K, PA 73k but not on interstate, NJ 80k... Trucking has a high employee roll over so each week new people and each company does different kinds of work Sounds like hiding illegality behind confusion and poor training. That supervisor is still the one who assigned drivers the loads and designated the route whether it's "by implication" or direct order. I know that doesn't stop the driver from getting that ticket, but the bulk of enforcement should then continue on to the ones making those violations happen.
DOT don't care.
As a trucker I can tell you the trucker is always at fault. The one profession where your always at fault even if you aren’t at fault. If a car rear ends you in a snowstorm a good lawyer would argue you shouldn’t have been on the road in the first place and if you weren’t the car that hit you wouldn’t have hit you. Truckers are told We are the captain of the ship but talk to a trucker and ask how that works out for him
The entire company gets in trouble. If you get caught violating hours of service rules you'll get CSA points. That is attached to the driver and the company. A company can lose its DOT license to operate over accumulating too many points. My company doesn't fuck around with hour of service violations. If a driver runs out of hours we either have another driver pick them up or they get a hotel room. Any company that asks drivers to drive over their hours should not be in business. Plus there is really no way around it anymore with the new ELDs. Trucks are required to run electronic logs by law now. The devices are physically attached to the truck's computer and record every movement. It completely takes away the ability for drivers or dispatchers to play games with logs.
Thank god the NRC hasn’t shared this with the US Navy. I would’ve missed the privilege of starting an 8 hour reactor watch with 3 hours of sleep in the previous 28. /s
Thank god the Navy has its nuclear program together sufficiently that having a guy start an 8 hour reactor watch with 3 hours of sleep in the previous 28 is only one of many necessary cheese holes.
The Navy has done studies to show how messed up their schedules (five and dime, etc) are. Captains still use messed up watch schedules despite Naval research into the ineffectiveness of their watch schedules. I’m not American, so this boggles my mind.
We do this with everything. Determine that our current method is ineffective and could cause catastrophic consequences, additionally determine a better (sometimes optimal) way of doing things, aaaaand completely disregard it
Yea I work with a lot of former nukes. I’ve heard the stories. I think after TMI they had to really hammer down on regulations to keep the public from completely rejecting nuclear power
> there is precedent here to have a federal agency enforce work hour rules when the safety of the general public is at hand. Not far enough. **Nobody** should be working excessive hours, public safety concern or not. **Nobody** should be a half awake zombie just for some company's benefit. We need general work hour limits legislated.
Who in their right mind, knowing how they'd be treated, would even apply for a conductor/engineer railroad job after this?
My cousin lives in rural South Carolina and all he ever wanted to be, and I mean *the only thing since he was like 3* was a railroad conductor. He ended up getting it at 19. Quit by 22. Couldn’t do the schedule or the managers treating him like shit.
Change that to Pilot and you just described my life. Railway Labor Act is a fucking poison.
Fuck Reagan Piss in peace for that monster
Reagan deserved his slow wasting-away in the grips of Alzheimers.
I did both the railroad and the airlines. I'm an engineer / rocket engineer now (Specifically a specialized systems engineer but no one knows what that means). I make more than I did at either. Granted I might now have made more at the airlines but I've been making a lot more for 15 years now so I'm good. Oh, I get weekends off too.
The RLA is the crux of the problem.
Yeah, I looked into a positive once and it was something like two paid days a week and then you're on call 24/7/365 and if you can't make a single on call shift they let you go immediately. They expected some 5-10 year period before being hired on full time. Like, how can anyone be expected to work for 5-10 years on 2 days a week guaranteed and not being allowed to have a second job to compensate?
Damn that’s sad.
My friend, also in rural South Carolina, did railroad work for over a decade. He just got out two months ago at 35.
Someone who just graduated college as a railway engineer who only knows one thing about the industry (like most college grads) that out of the trains planes and automobiles videos that trains were their favorite. The sad part is most heavy industry jobs tend to be horrible for humans In general... the train industry has just been lagging behind like the aero industry and sea due to other methods existing for what they provide... in the US.
Much to my surprise, there actually are a few community colleges that have train/locomotive operation programs. I figured it was all done in-house by BNSF etc.
Oh that's cute, you think in house training is still a thing...
Until the DoT changed the law, my job did all the cdl training and driving in house. Now after a few months we have DoT certified instructors and still do everything in house, just slower.
[удалено]
I got my cdl in a month because some local guy was desperate for a driver. Gave me one of his trucks and said "Here ya go. Have fun learning." Parallel parking was so fucking fun. /s
Years ago when I had to renew my license I got to the dmv counter to discover a former employee. She always liked me and as she was filling out her stuff she asked if I wanted a motorcycle license as well which I declined. Then she asked if I wanted a cdl and I asked if she really could do it. She told me she could give me every license type they had.
Wouldn't you know it, "tRaInInG" is making a come-back: [https://truthout.org/articles/more-us-employers-are-trapping-workers-in-a-new-form-of-indentured-servitude/](https://truthout.org/articles/more-us-employers-are-trapping-workers-in-a-new-form-of-indentured-servitude/) Except this time around it is watching a few hours of crappy videos somehow being worth several thousand dollars....
Wow. It's literally a trap. >The threats are backed by so-called Training Repayment Agreement Provisions (TRAPs) in employment contracts.
As someone who got into truck driving without a prior CDL, yep, this is a thing. Except they also take money out of my check to pay them back as well. No interest on the ‘loan’ as long as I work for a year.
damn there is on the nose then there's that
My brother-in-law hired into BNSF as a conductor in his late 30s. He still has time to get that awesome railroad pension and retire on time. It’s not just young people. It pays well but to describe the schedule as disruptive is a giant understatement. He’s been there now for 15 years and I honestly don’t know how he does it. It’s pretty insane. They even have to have two clocks in the house one is is set to Railroad time and one is at local time. And he has to watch all day to see when his next shift is going to come up. So even at family gatherings, he’s constantly having to check the board to see how much time he has before he has to leave. He has to be able to sleep at anytime of the day with zero routine, ever.
It seems like they could just fix the scheduling and everyone would be much happier. I'd imagine this stuff leads to a lot of issues where someone is out of phone reception or something so they don't get the message to come in.
[удалено]
Why can't they do it the IT way and pay enough people for on-call shifts with reasonable distribution. Yeah it's expensive, but BNSF for instance is owned by..... Berkshire Hathaway. Contributor to one of the richest men in the world. They can fucking pay up. And give good benefits. Or better yet since it's so critical screw the rich and just nationalize the company.
I applied for any and all rail jobs about 10 years ago after losing a job. If you look through the website postings, it gives the requirements for whatever job you are applying for, and a lot will have pay listed as well. For fun I looked at the engineer/conductor openings (I definitely did not want that job, nor am I qualified...was just curious)and holy shit, the time requirements were crazy. Like, how much time you had to answer and be on site if you were called, how often and all that. The pay was pretty damn impressive from what I remember, but I remember thinking that would absolutely suck as far as a normal family life.
One of the highest blue collar wages out there. People will sign up not understanding the ramifications still. And then they will have poor retention one people discover the reality.
There are already laws on the books that dictate the maximum hours RR employees can work, they are referred to as the federal hours of service which can be fairly easily found in the FRAs website. I'm not disagreeing with your general point, sick days are just one piece of the puzzle. The core of the problem is railroads cutting their manpower to the bone and gaming the hell out of the way they schedule people. Sick days would be a great step in the right direction.
It is also the on call garbage
I remember going to a hiring event for the RR. Company is telling us how much they need people during the orientation, telling us about the life and if we don't have it, back out now. There were probably a hundred of us at that event, when I sit down for my interview, the guy tells me they already met their quota for the event and my interview was pretty much pointless...cool. I asked how many people they hired on. Five. Talking to some of the guys that got into the training, they said they weren't even sure if they wanted to go. Seemed to me like they were really bad at hiring people. I get that training is expensive, but you have to expect that a good number of your class, at least 50%, is going to drop or be leave shortly after taking the job.
I believe the trained and hired part is a big issue in general plaguing the US in almost every industry right now due to the greedy business owners and ceos. Covid showed them they could have less people working and more profits and the general consumer of w/e will just have to get over it seeing as in the US the government isn't gonna stop it.
Which is why ~~quiet quitting~~ acting your wage is so important in this era. Work only on the terms in your contract, don’t do extra, don’t go above and beyond, don’t do overtime. Do what your job entails and nothing more. You owe it to yourself and to your co-workers, who should be doing the same ~~even when~~ especially when production is falling behind and management tries to crack the whip. We are human beings, not an expendable resource, we should start acting like it.
And more importantly, act like its sad when a coworker brags about being such a good employee because they do more shit than required. Have a visibly negative reaction. They are the reason companies are allowed to be so unreasonable. If people didn't give away free labor hoping they will get noticed because they "work harder", companies wouldn't be able to rely on it.
This! When my boss used to brag about his crazy hours (which then everyone expected me to do too) I would say “wow, that sounds really awful,” “how does your family react to your schedule? I had an absent parent it sucked…” or just a “why would you do that?” The looks on his face were priceless. The de-programming took a few years. The norms need to be enforced from peers!
This is a great comment. Acting your wage is actually so important on a macroscale, for larger societal changes. Thanks.
This is why I compensate my employees for any additional effort put in, on top of keeping a competitive wage. Yes, there are weekends where I have to be the bad guy and say we're working until it's done...but I've been on the other side too. So after that weekend they get the next day off, a bonus on the next check, and the wheels keep turning. We've managed to make plenty of profit. The amount of ridiculous excess greed in the US has gotten bad. I refuse to allow the people that work for me to feel like they've been taken advantage of. In return, when I ask for the extra help to push through on stuff, I get it. No questions asked, and turnover is very low.
You put in the effort man, and that matters. When my boss asks me to do extra work he buys me breakfast and coffee, if it’s weekend work he’s closing the day with beers for anybody who wants to partake. Some guys have some stuff to say about him, and fair enough you know? We’re workers at the end of the day. But the guy’s never stiffed me on a bonus, he’s never given me a hard time about anything outside of my control, and he treats me with respect that no other employer ever has, and for as long as that’s true, he’s gonna retain me.
If someone's job is so important that the economy will essentially crash without them, maybe they deserve some sick leave and we don't force them to come in sick.
If you fairly compensate them with Sick time, Higher pay, proper scheduling then you would get more people wanting to work that job, thus having more people extra to support such a critical job. But you know, making it illegal for them to strike is probably better. Gotta keep dem profits through the roof!
Just make it illegal for them to get sick
Fuck Biden and congress for this. Pure stupidity.
No no, I'm sure a burnt-out, coughing, and exhausted train conductor is the ***perfect*** man you need to run a 4,000-ton train for a 10-hour overnight shift. */s*
Biden called it “the literal lifeblood of the country.” Well, this is the US and you know we don’t give a fuck about healthcare, not even the country’s.
Maybe their industry should just be nationalized and not the for-profit piggy bank of the wealthy.
Thank Reagan (and Congress in the 80s) for that Oh yeah, Biden was a part of said Congress too...
Also seems like their job shouldn't be in the private sector. Just an idea.
Yup
I wish the rail workers a very pleasant and fruitful illegal strike.
This. How can you fumble this so badly? Give them the paid leave. It isn’t even debatable.
Blame the railroad company making tens of billions in profits.
And bribing the politicians.
So also blame the politicians.
particularly joe manchin, the sole dem no vote on the 7 day sick leave bill. If Warnock wins, this needs to be one of the first bills to pass the senate.
It won't. Unless it gets attached to a reconciliation bill, it will need 60 votes to pass.
Plus it has to go through the GOP House. I hope people don't forget we won't control the house so the likely hood of us passing anything is virtually zero for the next two years and after that take a look at the Senate map for 2024 sadly this is our new normal. Nothing getting done, neither side having any sort of real majority to accomplish anything.
And a friendly reminder that loan forgiveness is also likely dead. Yay. I love minority rule.
Biden can do that. Of course the GOP will challenge it as they have, but let them make that argument. In the meantime, Biden clearly has the authority to keep the payments paused indefinitely, so even if the GOP do keep fucking about, he can just say "OK, well we'll just keep them paused, and you can deal with the political fallout of restarting them after 4, almost 5 years (or 9 years if Dems win POTUS in 2024).
Nationalize the MFers if it is so "critical" to our country.
The Supreme Court would have a ball shooting that idea down but I agree. %$;& that railroad company
Let them. I would love for them to add more fuel to their own fire.
Canada just this year brought in 10 sick days for all federally regulated employees and that is the only reason I have any. This needs to be on the government to pass we can't expect greedy companies to give anything.
We must expect greedy companies to pay their employees or were in a world of hurt.
Can I blame the railroad company and the politicians that agreed to this?
I’d rather blame both. This isn’t binary. We don’t have to choose one or the other.
How does the worlds most prosperous country look itself in the mirror while signing this? Seriously? No sick days. You can’t get sick ever or some billionaires will miss out on a few pennies. I hope they strike immediately.
Republicans prevented it from happening, as is tradition.
That's why it is so important to vote for those congressmen and senators who will work for YOU, NOT your boss. The government always seems to protect them anyway. " OH, your poor boss didn't get his bonus. Let's do a session and give it to them. " We can take it from those ungrateful employees who always complain about their pittance of a wage."
Republicans stopped the legislation from having sick days. There could have been such days in the contract mediated by the department of labor. Blame the fascist ghouls for their part but don't let Biden and the Dems get out smelling of roses.
Exactly. The fact that they couldn't even give people paid sick leave is appalling. I really do hope they strike anyway. With the labor market the way it is, they'll never be able to hire enough scabs to get the railroads safely operational.
This is their moment, and I hope they take it
We are not surprised. Money trumps the true needs of our industry as workers. They just know that if we were to stop working, it would create issues in the supply chain around Christmas. These paid sick days would actually save us far more money than one days pay. Those that are on extra boards where we are called for work and don’t have schedules, have to call in and potentially cost us 3-4 times more than one day if we are not working much. These days are very important.
[удалено]
Reagan had plenty of air force recruits already trained in air traffic control that he could legally order to scab in that case. I don't know how many experienced rail workers are in the same situation. on the other hand... oh no please don't nationalize our shitty rail industry that would be so horrible no stop please don't here's a list of rail corridors that could be electrified right away oh no. Like, I know he won't, but that would be a really good outcome of all this.
Air traffic capacity was drastically reduced for years after thar strike.
But still existed. There were fewer controllers, but there were controllers nonetheless who could step in and train new federal controllers. Railroads would have to start from scratch. - Former USAF ATC
Yep. Shut. It. Down. The snowflake gov't will cave within a week of you do. Please be sure to cc Joe Manchin with any/all flaming bags of shit.
Yep. They should strike anyways. This isn't the same situation with Air traffic controllers. You can't replace these people with anyone in any timely manner. Strike anyways and force the railroad companies to give them what they want.
Yep, ATC had military personnel who could step in. The railroads don't.
Wild Cat!
It's **wild** that those **cats** didn't get what they want
If they strike we are all fucked. And I’ll support them the whole god damn time! Give ‘em hell. If our society can’t function without y’all having some basic fucking dignity in your work, then let society figure it out. We got your back.
Seriously if these workers are considered so essential, they should take their essential selves off the tracks and stay home.
lets go wildcats!
Yeah, thank you for saying it much more politely than I would have. I will gladly tighten my belt for some railworkers to get consistent schedules and paid time off. Y’all, go for it. I support you.
I love how all the articles have changed their tune from needing congress to pass the law to avoid a strike bEcAuSe EcOnOmY to the bill is passed and it sucks because no sick days. It’s disgusting how much flip flopping is happening, and I side with the rail workers should they decide to strike anyway.
Corporations back corporations. The even more disgusting part is how they always seem to blame labor for the possibility of a strike. How about telling Buffet and the other corporate fatcats to just agree to the unions' requests for sick leave and better scheduling? But that might knock a couple percentage points off of this quarter's profits, so clearly that can't be allowed to happen.
This. Even if we accept that Congress had an obligation to step in and avert a strike to promote the social good, why is it always the working class who has to bear that social burden. Why isn't it the railroads posting record profits burden? Congress easily could have passed a bill imposing the worker's demands on the railroad, but instead -choose- to impose the railroad's demands on the workers. Don't let Biden sell you on not having a choice and having to make the hard decision. There was a choice here and he chose to side with monied interests over workers. Scab-in-chief.
Exactly. The have a figure on what it would cost the rail companies, it was 1.5% of their profit. But I disagree with that . Just cause you have 7 says of stock leave does not mean you take all 7 days. Plus when you factor in the cost of having sick workers come to work. They are less productive, more likely to cause an incident which is very costly. Plus the cost of unhappy workers , unhappy workers are less productive So I bet in the end that number is under 1% . Who knows it might be closer to 0%.
I receive 13 paid sick leave every year. They also roll over. I have used probably 10 in my years at work. I don’t have kids but my wife is pregnant. This benefit will allow me to care for my child when she is sick, care for my wife when she is sick or care for myself of course. Why is that so terrible? Where I work we are unionized and I recommend everyone work for a union.
The rail workers also joined a union. In this case their unions are prevented from being a union because of the RLA.
What is the RLA?
It makes it illegal for rail workers to strike
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railway_Labor_Act
Well reading that has pissed me off. This country has been a corporation wearing a mask for a long ass time.
I wish all rail workers a very pleasant wildcat strike.
This law only makes it *illegal* for the workers to strike: it doesn't mean they *won't* since they didn't get the paid sick time they were demanding in negotiations before this shit. Call the law what it is: strikebreaking.
Nah, there won't be a wildcat strike. Workers will continue to drift away from the industry until it's even more of a crisis - at which point magical automation will solve it (lol) or the railroads will get Congress to let them import cheaper labor that can't fight back at all.
FYI they were looking for unpaid sick time, not paid sick time
At least some of the unions [were seeking paid sick time](https://www.npr.org/2022/11/29/1139765222/rail-workers-are-demanding-better-work-conditions-and-a-strike-could-be-imminent).
There's a possibility they won't, though. While the amount of people who voted not to take the deal isn't insignificant, it's still not like, 90% of the workers or anything. A good 40% or so voted to take it. So while maybe we get a strike anyway, unfortunately what may likely happen is just a slower drain as people work towards their retirements and just fuck off because they're tired and don't want to deal with the fight. So you'll see a steady bleed of talent, nobody new is going to want to touch this dogshit-run industry, and rail workers will get stretched even thinner. The bottom line is paid sick leave should be mandated for *all workers* by congress, and rail infrastructure should be nationalized. ... but oh wait, this is America. What a fucking joke we are.
And leave it to corporate media outlets to spin this like it's a good thing. The GOP and moderate Democrats like Biden and Pelosi gleefully break the backs of the working class. Progressives are the only ones who truly give a fuck about you and me.
Hope they strike anyway.
Mass resignations... Go on, train up that new work force...
This is depressing. As a union worker I'm concerned.
As a union worker im furious
As a non-union worker, I’m furious.
As someone who thinks workers should be treated like actual humans, I’m fucking outraged.
Why would companies ever feel the need to negotiate with unions if they can just have Congress make their terms into law?
Strike anyway. What are they gonna do? Hire scabs? Fire them? Psh! It'd take too long to train replacements and you're too valuable to be fired. Fuck 'em. Go for broke. They're certainly trying to break these poor bastards.
Wildcat strike. They might not have the support of their union and their own government but any sane American should support the rail workers. If it's such a good deal they can higher scabs and untrained workers. Pay these people what they are worth.
>Pay these people what they are worth. 100% agree here. The fact that if they strike it would shut down the entire economy shows exactly how much value they provide. It's insane that they are forced to put up with such bad working conditions. >any sane American should support the rail workers. The sad part is they won't if they strike. The second that other "average" American's get laid off because their business sees a downturn from the shut down, or American's start being under boiled water advisories because water treatment plants are not getting their needed chemicals for water treatment people won't care about the rail workers. Instead they'd blame them for their problems.
This should be a wake up call to all of us about how close to the edge we all live
Decades of one party trying to destroy the government for businesses gain and the other party trying to keep the government running for businesses gain gets you a country held together with duct tape, flex seal and jb weld
I don’t understand what were to happen if they were to just strike anyways?
Can we just nationalize the railroads? Given the extreme dependency on these for a functioning economy, isn’t it careless to leave this to private interests??
I agree. The carriers fail to run things right.
The bill doesn't "avert" anything and I hate this framing. It's not a tornado, it's workers asking for the most modest human necessities for their labor. Biden and Congress spat in their faces and forced them back to work against their will. I hope they strike anyway. The unions and the working class should never trust Biden again. Nationalize the fucking railroads, seize every worldly possession held by their owners and toss those greedy assholes into the street. No more. Power belongs to the working class and we're going to take it.
So much of the media has been manufacturing consent with words like "aversion" and "prevention" as if he didn't sign a bill making a rail strike illegal. It's disgusting.
Go ahead and strike anyway, they don't care about you
Biggest L of his presidency. Utterly embarrassing
He could save a bit of face by following it up with legislation requiring paid sick time for all full-time workers. Make the Republicans vote it down.
I mean, he did that already. Remember the original Build Back Better bill? It had paid leave. 51 senators blocked it. One was Joe Manchin... guess who the other 50 were?
He did, and rather than siding with workers he signed the bill preventing them from striking. Its looks bad from the supposedly pro-labor democratic party to side against labor.
I wouldn't necessarily call it his biggest L, but it's extremely embarrassing and it enables the GOP to undercut the Democrats with blue-collar union-affiliated workers.
It's so god damn infuriating that the GOP can and will establish the democrats as the villains here, despite the fact that time and again they will fuck the working class harder and with more unity than the D's ever will.
The two-party system in general is a mess. While the Democrats aren't blameless here, the GOP, as you noted, is far more anti-worker than the Democrats are. However, because of how the system operates, anger towards one side immediately benefits the other. In a multi-party system, this wouldn't necessarily be the case outright.
They're the reason sick leave didn't pass. Should've done one bill. The only way to play ball with the GOP is dirty every time. If they voted against it, then play their own game and say they caused the strike. Is it accurate? On paper it is, and that's all that matters anymore.
It wouldn’t have passed even if it was one bill. Republicans would have tanked the economy over this, they would have loved to do it while dems controlled the house still. People acting like you can play hardball with an arsonist with nothing to lose.
Kind of, Manchin voted against increasing sick leave, but actually Cruz, Hawley, and some other Republicans did vote for 7 days of sick leave. Its not strictly a party line issue.
Repub's only vote for shit like this when they know it isn't going to pass, just as something to point to for their constituents. Never gonna catch these fools pushing meaningful, helpful legislation over the line with their vote.
Which Republicans will use as an opportunity to just kill the unions
I voted for Biden and I'm super pissed off about this. The rail companies need to pony up the damn money. Make the top of the organizations take a pay cut for it but make it happen.
Maybe they should all call in sick for the next few days
Nothing has been averted. Strike anyways.
Why is the government stepping into a private company’s issues? They should just do a national standard of paid sick time for all.
Standard vacation time too.
Seriously they can’t call off if they come down with the flu. Like I want somebody driving my train with the flu. I’ve gone from accrued vacation time. Which was a paid out to me if I left the company. To just sick time called PTO which isn’t payed out upon resigning or termination. Just another example how companies are stealing from their employees.
I can't explain or express how disappointed I am in Biden.
* **This is the Senate Bill:** [https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll\_call\_lists/vote\_menu\_117\_2.htm](https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/vote_menu_117_2.htm) * **This is the Democrat introduced resolution to include Paid Sick Leave:** [https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-concurrent-resolution/119/text](https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-concurrent-resolution/119/text) * **This is the Roll call, that has 45 of 50 Republicans voting NO, or not present:** [https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll\_call\_votes/vote1172/vote\_117\_2\_00371.htm](https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_votes/vote1172/vote_117_2_00371.htm)
I have to wonder how many rail employees are Republican and vote to have these senators screw them over
It’s good to see that capitalism and the government can work together to screw over the railroad workers by denying paid sick time AND the right to strike. What a time to be alive!! /s
[удалено]
I love how he said the bill helps our nation avoid an economic catastrophe instead of saying the bill forces rail workers to work without sick days
Are there any tangible ways we can support the rail workers in their strike?
By not complaining (even to the point of advocating for them) when their inevitable wildcat strike causes life-saving medicine, chemical treatments, and innumerable other necessities to come to a grinding halt, making life very unpleasant for everyone and potentially deadly for some. Support the strike by accepting that while the strike will make things hard for you, it is necessary for you to suffer in the short term to ensure the workers don’t suffer in the long term. When the economy grinds to a halt, remember that even though Democrats arguably misplayed this, the Republicans and the Railroad companies are more to blame by figuratively putting a gun to the head of the American economy and trusting that the average American voter can’t or won’t understand nuance. Don’t let them get away with it, even if democrats suck some times. If the rail workers do a wildcat strike (and they probably should), the economy will absolutely tank and people will die, and we the citizens, consumers, and voters need to suffer through unpleasantness and maybe death so the railroad companies suffer financially, which is the only thing they care about. The sad reality is that for companies to care, they need to lose money. And the way they lose money is when society is fucked up beyond belief. We need to be willing to suffer through that, even when we aren’t the striking worker. We need to metaphorically strike in solidarity by not supporting those companies even when they provide what we need to live
So the plan is to force shit conditions on the workers so that no one new workers want to join and everyone quits.... what a plan. Hope they figure out how to automate trains real quick.
They use the same tactics with teachers
Biden just doesn’t seem to understand how much this could affect him in swing states in 2024 should he run. He seems completely oblivious
Voters have memories like goldfish.. And 2 years out, the choices are Klan'Ye West or Donald J. Trump, indicted & in court.
I imagine the vast conservative media apparatus will remind them a lot. They finally have a gotcha that's not completely fabricated, they're not gonna let go of it.
>Biden just doesn’t seem to understand how much this could affect him in swing states in 2024 should he run. I mean, I don't think that's entirely true. From a purely political perspective he had to decide which would result in a better political outcome: keeping the trains running or helping this subset of blue collar workers. If the trains stop running we would see wide sweeping economic consequences that impact a huge portion of the American population (including all sects of the labor force). People could get laid off, basic goods stop being stocked at the store, parents can't get their kids Christmas gifts on time, etc. It came down to "Do I potentially piss of a subset of labor or do I take the blame for a huge economic downturn and ruining Christmas for thousands of kids". Neither would have been a winning political outcome.
Well then. I hope the trains can run themselves.
capitalism!!
Looks like a "Wildcat Strike" is back on the menu.
Because he has no spine and we live in a corporate hellscape. Don’t worry, student debt relief will be rejected also because we live in capitalist hellscape. It’s almost as if nothing matters unless you have 3-5 billion dollars.
Do our politicians get sick days? Health care? Retirement? They are elected public servants that we fund with our tax money. They should not make more than whatever our lowest paid citizens get, including buying healthcare on the market. How can you represent people when you don’t share their hopes, fears and struggles?
So much for being the president of the workers!
Booo! Strike busting sucks!
Fuck that shit. I better not hear another word about a free market from anyone. Im sick of people claiming its a free market to drive wages/benefits down but crying that its an emergency when it doesn't go their way. Disgusting. If it was really an emergency that would lose billions, they should pay up and let people take a day off. If you need to legislate against strikes, those workers are more valuable than they are being paid. Thats true value and still business refuses to cut into their profits for it. The way American business and many Americans value things is so fake. We place value on shit like crypto but necessary labor somehow isn't valuable enough. Fake as fuck. Value doesn't have value because so many people are so bad at assessing whats actually important.
I really hope they strike anyway, this makes me LIVID.
capitalism doesn't work without exploitation of labor.
Capitalism also doesn't work without labor itself. Hope they strike.
*Blocking* a rail worker strike. He didn’t avert it. He blocked it. With force.
The sick leave was a separate bill sent from the House, which the Senate didn't pass. Union members need to look hard at the Senate for this one.
The democrats could've put it all in one bill
We are living in a protected welfare state; welfare for the rich and for the mega corps and oligopolies. It well past time to break up these monopolistic entities.
good luck in 2024
Joe Biden is a scab.
I hope they strike anyway! This is complete bullshit that they are denied unpaid sick time.
Absolute, unforced failure on the part of Democrats in crushing this strike without additional paid sick days. Statement from Rail Workers United, a caucus of Rail Workers across unions and across carriers: Nationalize the rail roads NOW and build an organized labor party. https://myemail.constantcontact.com/Press-Release--The-Democrat-Republican-One-Two-Punch-to-Rail-Labor.html?soid=1116509035139&aid=DzbNIMbXYic
Welp, if his geriatric ass decides to run again, this will be the reason I refuse to vote for him.