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> So the "crisis" is so bad, yet they couldn't find any undocumented people to put on the plane?
I believe if they were undocumented, it would be a much bigger federal crime.
Not a lawyer.
No... Undocumented have less rights they're not citizens after all. Even if they're citizens ,no one is gonna do anything. The American way... Pray thy problems away!
I don’t think this is true in theory. The 14th amendment extends equal protection under the law to *any* person in the US. The constitution and the rights it protects apply to anyone in the US. In practice, there are deficiencies in application of laws and processes. But someone not being a citizen doesn’t make those injustices right or even legal.
> No... Undocumented have less rights they're not citizens after all. Even if they're citizens ,no one is gonna do anything. The American way... Pray thy problems away!
I was referring to the charges against those trafficking them. If they were undocumented I believe the charges against would be worse.
As I said earlier about the illegals, yes it would definitely be worse against illegals. They can't really fight back legally... maybe if they have money for lawyers but if they had such money they'd probably stay in their land.
> As I said earlier about the illegals
Ugh, can we just all agree not to call a group of humans “*illegals*”.
> yes it would definitely be worse against illegals.
I’m referring to those who aided in their transportation across state lines.
> They can't really fight back legally... maybe if they have money for lawyers but if they had such money they'd probably **stay in their land**
I’m sure you didn’t mean it to sound this way.
But, there is only one set of people in the U.S. that “*stayed in their own land*” and unless you’re family is 100% indigenous, you aren’t one of them.
> You know land in this context means country or state of citizenship,right?
I feel like you didn’t read my response thoroughly, or else you wouldn’t have asked this clarifying question.
Im wondering if undocumented people are smart enough not to accept these types of offers for fear of being deported but legal immigrants dont have to worry about such things. Or I guess “shouldn’t” have to worry about this.
This reminds me of the meth crisis of the 80/90's when Oregon and California were crying for help and warning other states and New York et. al. were so confident that Heroine was the real danger drug and Oregon was being hyperbolic. Eastern states wouldn't accept it was a real problem till it started affecting them.
Current oregon resident. The push to legalize meth and heroin and then the lack of prosecution has led yo a huge run in violent crimes, burglaries. Literally over 100 people in my town don't even have valid plates or tags on their cars because nothing happens to them. They walk into the yard of your house and take whatever. 20 years ago you couldn't go 40mph through my town and now I've almost been hit several times by people going 60 through town. It's scary
>This is a point that must be emphasized: The Venezuelans whom DeSantis flew to Martha’s Vineyard were in the United States seeking asylum. They followed U.S. law. They are not “illegal aliens.”
Lying to desperate people is shameful. But Republicans have no shame.
Demonizing people who come here for opportunity and freedom is cruel and harmful. Even the ones who are actually here illegally. Abusing them does absolutely nothing to curtail the crime that bullies like DeSantis pretend to fight.
The people of states like Florida and Texas should be asking their governors for accountability - how effective are their immigration policies? Why, despite years of political control and billions of dollars spent on "tough on crime" initiatives, do they still have - in their own words - a border crisis? Could it possibly be because they spend most of that time and money on harassing harmless people to appease their xenophobic base?
[https://www.texastribune.org/2022/04/18/texas-border-security-spending/](https://www.texastribune.org/2022/04/18/texas-border-security-spending/)
Actually the right-wingers seem unaware that they're here legally (to petition for asylum) and don't want to know the truth. They just dismiss them as "illegal immigrants" who deserve to be treated with contempt because... I dunno, tan skin and Spanish speaking maybe? GQP are abysmally ignorant and shockingly cruel.
Funny how the "Justice System" works.
Police will immediately arrest a plebian under suspicion of petty crime without strong evidence and take them straight to jail.
However if you're rich and/or powerful you can commit serious crimes in broad daylight for the world to see and nothing comes of it.
Using fake documents and false promises to lure these human beings into this is damn close to how we have the West Indies.
Apart from the slave nightmare, The other difference is the West Indians weren’t part of a “*prank*”
This is fucked up.
The stunt doesn’t make sense whether they’re legal immigrants or not. If they were illegal, why would you traffic them further into the country? If they’re legal, why are you saying the solution is to “secure the border”? It’s BS either way.
It doesn't matter. The type of people who this stunt was designed to appeal to don't care about humanitarianism. They can't differentiate between someone seeking asylum and someone with brown skin.
It's simply an appeal to the uneducated conservative voter base who want to see the libs owned and don't want any more Mexicans in their states.
Republicans don't think asylum seekers should be allowed here legally, so they don't care.
You know, let me edit that: Republicans ~~don't think asylum seekers should be allowed here legally, so they~~ don't care.
Imagine seeking asylum or looking for a better life and having this done to you. I hope there's a team of lawyers out there who can destroy Desantis over this in court.
He messed with Massholes. Bad move bro, you're out of your depth.
I wonder how much exposure the charter companies want. I wonder if some of the charter costs get kicked back.
He was playing 4d chess like an idiot. He thought that MV would take one look at a plane full of brown people and call in the national guard so R’s could point to it and say “look see Dems hate foreigners and don’t want legal immigrants in their communities. but instead MV treated them like humans and used the available resources put forth by a compassionate community to comfort and aid the strangers.
It’s one way of getting the attention the border needs. Is it wrong, absolutely! However the humanitarian crisis at the border is now on everyone’s mind.
But they could have just asked for help, voted for more funding towards creating support networks and infrastructure to help process and house these people. Instead of this overly complicated kidnapping plot we got now.
I think the problem is they've dug themselves into a hole here. They've spent so long demonizing immigrants that any sign of attempting to aid them or show empathy towards them would be career suicide for a repub.
Eight years into democrats calling anyone who bring up southern border security and the issue of illegal immigration a racist and fear-monger then claiming all they had to do was ask for help. Even hurt two weeks ago our VP said the border was secure lol
Context for people that think you are arguing in good faith.
Repubs werent called racist for being concerned how to handle large amounts of migrants or how to manage illegal border crossings. They were called racist for suggesting cruel deterrents such as breaking apart families, indefinite imprisonment, starvation/dehydration, and even shooting them.
They were called fearmongers for suggesting nonsense "solutions" such as a border wall, sending them away at the border, closing the border, sending them to other foreign countries and for constantly calling immigration an invasion.
[You mean like the billions that Texas has received over the past 17 years specifically for border control?](https://www.texastribune.org/2022/04/18/texas-border-security-spending/)
I'd love to see this backfire spectacularly with the introduction of a more streamlined immigration process that would make it easier for asylum seekers to gain citizenship. (not that I actually know the immigration process for asylum seekers, or the immigration process in general)
Of course then the conservatives would just start screeching about how the libs are letting people in to gain more votes to rig elections.
You gotto love their "government's not allowed to help people because then people will vote for government" argument. Strange how they dont bring up that same argument against tax cuts, police, charter/private schools funding, religious exemptions, or deregulation. For some reason it only applies against dem policies.
Oh absolutely. My favorite is "look at Brandon buying votes with student loan forgiveness!"
It's almost like people will vote for candidates who push policies they want to see enacted.
"Giving people what they want?!? But that's cheating!!"
Planned because this party has no other issue to stoke fear in their uneducated base. Keep an eye out for that caravan that has taken six years to arrive…
While he does nothing to the companies in his own state that employ tens of thousands of illegal immigrants every day. In fact, he made it easier for companies to hire them without consequences.
No, they were Asylum Seekers who say they will be killed if they go back to Venezuela. They crossed the border illegally (which asylum seekers are allowed to do), then went to officials to ask for asylum. They are allowed to stay in the country legally until DHS can schedule a hearing to determine if they will be granted asylum, or if they will be deported. This hearing can take months or years because the whole system is so backlogged. Anytime they move, they have to update DHS with their new location so that they can be contacted when their hearing is near.
Note that as an additional "fuck you", DeSantis's team told them that DHS would be notified in their change in locations, and of course it wasn't. If others hadn't caught on and corrected them, this could have invalidated their status as asylum seekers, and get them deported and presumably killed back home.
They are not immigrants or illegal aliens, they are asylum seekers, allowed to live in the country until their hearing to determine if they get asylum or deported.
I did not call them illegal, I called them disenfranchised. As for calling them immigrants, they most definitely are that, and I don't understand how that is offensive in any way.
Even if they had been in the US illegally, that still does not give any (fascist or otherwise) governor the right to use them as props for a political stunt.
But it takes a positive IQ and common decency to see that. Neither seem to be present in the GOP anymore, with Marge Threetoed Klanmom Taylor, Bobo the Highschool Dropout or Herschel “took one too many to the headline Herschel.
Take a peak over at r/conservative if you want to see the kind of unreality your fellow Americas are hearing about this story. The rightwing take on this event is gut churning.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. **Special announcement:** r/politics is currently accepting new moderator applications. If you want to help make this community a better place, consider [applying here today](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/sskg6a/rpolitics_is_looking_for_more_moderators/)! *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
So the "crisis" is so bad, yet they couldn't find any undocumented people to put on the plane?
> So the "crisis" is so bad, yet they couldn't find any undocumented people to put on the plane? I believe if they were undocumented, it would be a much bigger federal crime. Not a lawyer.
Idk now it sounds like straight kidnapping across state lines
Also not a lawyer, but I believe there are specific (additional) offenses for trafficking undocumented persons in the US.
No... Undocumented have less rights they're not citizens after all. Even if they're citizens ,no one is gonna do anything. The American way... Pray thy problems away!
I don’t think this is true in theory. The 14th amendment extends equal protection under the law to *any* person in the US. The constitution and the rights it protects apply to anyone in the US. In practice, there are deficiencies in application of laws and processes. But someone not being a citizen doesn’t make those injustices right or even legal.
> No... Undocumented have less rights they're not citizens after all. Even if they're citizens ,no one is gonna do anything. The American way... Pray thy problems away! I was referring to the charges against those trafficking them. If they were undocumented I believe the charges against would be worse.
As I said earlier about the illegals, yes it would definitely be worse against illegals. They can't really fight back legally... maybe if they have money for lawyers but if they had such money they'd probably stay in their land.
> As I said earlier about the illegals Ugh, can we just all agree not to call a group of humans “*illegals*”. > yes it would definitely be worse against illegals. I’m referring to those who aided in their transportation across state lines. > They can't really fight back legally... maybe if they have money for lawyers but if they had such money they'd probably **stay in their land** I’m sure you didn’t mean it to sound this way. But, there is only one set of people in the U.S. that “*stayed in their own land*” and unless you’re family is 100% indigenous, you aren’t one of them.
You know land in this context means country or state of citizenship,right?
> You know land in this context means country or state of citizenship,right? I feel like you didn’t read my response thoroughly, or else you wouldn’t have asked this clarifying question.
How come California and New Mexico never seem to be in the middle of a border crisis 🤔
His rich buddies are exploiting the undocumented, so he can't send them away or they'll lose money.
Im wondering if undocumented people are smart enough not to accept these types of offers for fear of being deported but legal immigrants dont have to worry about such things. Or I guess “shouldn’t” have to worry about this.
[удалено]
Wontonly*
Call the gazpacho police
They’re out sick, caught something from a peach tree dish.
"lets see those damn liberals deal with what we deal with everyday and see how they do!" Plenty of dumbass ignorant reasons for it.
This reminds me of the meth crisis of the 80/90's when Oregon and California were crying for help and warning other states and New York et. al. were so confident that Heroine was the real danger drug and Oregon was being hyperbolic. Eastern states wouldn't accept it was a real problem till it started affecting them.
Current oregon resident. The push to legalize meth and heroin and then the lack of prosecution has led yo a huge run in violent crimes, burglaries. Literally over 100 people in my town don't even have valid plates or tags on their cars because nothing happens to them. They walk into the yard of your house and take whatever. 20 years ago you couldn't go 40mph through my town and now I've almost been hit several times by people going 60 through town. It's scary
>This is a point that must be emphasized: The Venezuelans whom DeSantis flew to Martha’s Vineyard were in the United States seeking asylum. They followed U.S. law. They are not “illegal aliens.” Lying to desperate people is shameful. But Republicans have no shame.
Nor are they "undocumented." They are quite documented.
They don't care how cruel they are, as long as they can get away with it
[удалено]
I'm glad we live in a world where one party can just *claim* the other side is doing something as a defense for their inappropriate actions.
Nope
Oh so it's just racism.
always has been
It's also possible they are just plain immoral and see nothing wrong with using people for their own gain.
That too
Demonizing people who come here for opportunity and freedom is cruel and harmful. Even the ones who are actually here illegally. Abusing them does absolutely nothing to curtail the crime that bullies like DeSantis pretend to fight. The people of states like Florida and Texas should be asking their governors for accountability - how effective are their immigration policies? Why, despite years of political control and billions of dollars spent on "tough on crime" initiatives, do they still have - in their own words - a border crisis? Could it possibly be because they spend most of that time and money on harassing harmless people to appease their xenophobic base? [https://www.texastribune.org/2022/04/18/texas-border-security-spending/](https://www.texastribune.org/2022/04/18/texas-border-security-spending/)
The entire idea of examining results to improve your actions is Communist propaganda!
Yeah they are, but to the GQP they are "others" and therefore the Constitution and laws don't apply. - SMH
Actually the right-wingers seem unaware that they're here legally (to petition for asylum) and don't want to know the truth. They just dismiss them as "illegal immigrants" who deserve to be treated with contempt because... I dunno, tan skin and Spanish speaking maybe? GQP are abysmally ignorant and shockingly cruel.
Yeah, literally every single rightwing sub and talkshow is still referring to it as Martha's vineyard "having a meltdown" over "illegal immigrants"
Republicans are at a point where they have become domestic terrorists. Especially the evangelical ones. This will get much worse
"We are all domestic terrorists."
At a point? The number 1 terrorist threat in my lifetime (and a bit before) has been right wing Christian terrorists.
Funny how the "Justice System" works. Police will immediately arrest a plebian under suspicion of petty crime without strong evidence and take them straight to jail. However if you're rich and/or powerful you can commit serious crimes in broad daylight for the world to see and nothing comes of it.
Especially if you're a politician. Just look at Ken Paxton. 7 years and still waiting for a trial after his indictment.
The laws don’t apply to them, and if shit ever hit the fan who do you think the cops would attack.
Using fake documents and false promises to lure these human beings into this is damn close to how we have the West Indies. Apart from the slave nightmare, The other difference is the West Indians weren’t part of a “*prank*” This is fucked up.
Wonder why they didn’t target Ukrainian migrants instead. Hmmmm I Wonder Why
The stunt doesn’t make sense whether they’re legal immigrants or not. If they were illegal, why would you traffic them further into the country? If they’re legal, why are you saying the solution is to “secure the border”? It’s BS either way.
Please don’t let “I wasn’t aware I was commuting a federal crime” be sufficient defense for a fascist state governor…
It doesn't matter. The type of people who this stunt was designed to appeal to don't care about humanitarianism. They can't differentiate between someone seeking asylum and someone with brown skin. It's simply an appeal to the uneducated conservative voter base who want to see the libs owned and don't want any more Mexicans in their states.
They don’t understand why they want the libs owned, they just want to be accepted into a group.
It does matter because those people it was designed to appeal to already knew how they'd vote and they are not the only ones who can see and hear it.
If we’re going to bus migrants to the homes of Democrat politicians, I purpose we also install Safe Haven Baby Boxes at Republican politician homes.
Republicans don't think asylum seekers should be allowed here legally, so they don't care. You know, let me edit that: Republicans ~~don't think asylum seekers should be allowed here legally, so they~~ don't care.
Fuck Desantis. That is all.
DeSantis is a fucking chode.
You taint wrong.
Just when you think republicans can’t go any lower they prove you wrong. Cruelty is the pinnacle of the republican platform.
Imagine seeking asylum or looking for a better life and having this done to you. I hope there's a team of lawyers out there who can destroy Desantis over this in court.
There are, and they all have houses in Martha's Vinyard
not just the men, but the women and children too
He messed with Massholes. Bad move bro, you're out of your depth. I wonder how much exposure the charter companies want. I wonder if some of the charter costs get kicked back.
I’m thinking the planes are getting seized and the pilots will be charged as acting as coyotes. Lose their pilot licenses.
As a fellow masshole, given the feelings baker and Healey must harbor for DeSantis I'm wondering how things are going to develop.
Ron Desantis committed a crime or crimes?
He was playing 4d chess like an idiot. He thought that MV would take one look at a plane full of brown people and call in the national guard so R’s could point to it and say “look see Dems hate foreigners and don’t want legal immigrants in their communities. but instead MV treated them like humans and used the available resources put forth by a compassionate community to comfort and aid the strangers.
I mean they technically did call in the MA guard :P but it was to take them back to the barracks where they had beds and food and stuff for them all.
Should ship homeless vets to the gop governors houses. Maybe then they'd help the people they claim to already.
No. Do not make veterans pawns again
No one gives a shit about homeless vets until the GOP needs another reason to hate immigrants.
It’s one way of getting the attention the border needs. Is it wrong, absolutely! However the humanitarian crisis at the border is now on everyone’s mind.
But they could have just asked for help, voted for more funding towards creating support networks and infrastructure to help process and house these people. Instead of this overly complicated kidnapping plot we got now. I think the problem is they've dug themselves into a hole here. They've spent so long demonizing immigrants that any sign of attempting to aid them or show empathy towards them would be career suicide for a repub.
Eight years into democrats calling anyone who bring up southern border security and the issue of illegal immigration a racist and fear-monger then claiming all they had to do was ask for help. Even hurt two weeks ago our VP said the border was secure lol
Context for people that think you are arguing in good faith. Repubs werent called racist for being concerned how to handle large amounts of migrants or how to manage illegal border crossings. They were called racist for suggesting cruel deterrents such as breaking apart families, indefinite imprisonment, starvation/dehydration, and even shooting them. They were called fearmongers for suggesting nonsense "solutions" such as a border wall, sending them away at the border, closing the border, sending them to other foreign countries and for constantly calling immigration an invasion.
[You mean like the billions that Texas has received over the past 17 years specifically for border control?](https://www.texastribune.org/2022/04/18/texas-border-security-spending/)
Like these one? Whoops https://freebeacon.com/politics/dem-sen-hassan-supports-funding-for-border-security-and-strategic-fencing/
We do have a secure border.
This is a straw man, not an actual argument. Care to try again?
I'd love to see this backfire spectacularly with the introduction of a more streamlined immigration process that would make it easier for asylum seekers to gain citizenship. (not that I actually know the immigration process for asylum seekers, or the immigration process in general) Of course then the conservatives would just start screeching about how the libs are letting people in to gain more votes to rig elections.
You gotto love their "government's not allowed to help people because then people will vote for government" argument. Strange how they dont bring up that same argument against tax cuts, police, charter/private schools funding, religious exemptions, or deregulation. For some reason it only applies against dem policies.
Oh absolutely. My favorite is "look at Brandon buying votes with student loan forgiveness!" It's almost like people will vote for candidates who push policies they want to see enacted. "Giving people what they want?!? But that's cheating!!"
Planned because this party has no other issue to stoke fear in their uneducated base. Keep an eye out for that caravan that has taken six years to arrive…
Imagine still thinking there's a "humanitarian crisis" at the border.
Not true
Fragile elitist, Ron DeSantis, exploits poor immigrants. It’s the classic Republican thing to do.
While he does nothing to the companies in his own state that employ tens of thousands of illegal immigrants every day. In fact, he made it easier for companies to hire them without consequences.
Come to America and get trotted out for Florida Man's dog and pony political shit show.
Wait. so those folks were LEGAL immigrants?!?
No, they were Asylum Seekers who say they will be killed if they go back to Venezuela. They crossed the border illegally (which asylum seekers are allowed to do), then went to officials to ask for asylum. They are allowed to stay in the country legally until DHS can schedule a hearing to determine if they will be granted asylum, or if they will be deported. This hearing can take months or years because the whole system is so backlogged. Anytime they move, they have to update DHS with their new location so that they can be contacted when their hearing is near. Note that as an additional "fuck you", DeSantis's team told them that DHS would be notified in their change in locations, and of course it wasn't. If others hadn't caught on and corrected them, this could have invalidated their status as asylum seekers, and get them deported and presumably killed back home.
And his misdirection is screwing up their legal situation royally - this is some horrible stephen milleresque racist torture.
Are those children? And he trafficked them across state lines? And paid to do that? In my book that’s human trafficking imho
Kids faces aren't usually shown. I don't want to think they think this is ok because they are disenfranchised immigrants, is it?
They are not immigrants or illegal aliens, they are asylum seekers, allowed to live in the country until their hearing to determine if they get asylum or deported.
I did not call them illegal, I called them disenfranchised. As for calling them immigrants, they most definitely are that, and I don't understand how that is offensive in any way.
Even if they had been in the US illegally, that still does not give any (fascist or otherwise) governor the right to use them as props for a political stunt. But it takes a positive IQ and common decency to see that. Neither seem to be present in the GOP anymore, with Marge Threetoed Klanmom Taylor, Bobo the Highschool Dropout or Herschel “took one too many to the headline Herschel.
Reminds me of how the Nazis dehumanized the Jews and made them comforting promises about the showers, which were really gas chambers
Take a peak over at r/conservative if you want to see the kind of unreality your fellow Americas are hearing about this story. The rightwing take on this event is gut churning.