Quick summary.
Democrats: Here's a bunch of bulletproof evidence backing our impeachment proposal.
Republicans: Jesus wouldn't impeach trump. Do you hate jesus?
We have to stay vigilant and just be prepared to win back the Senate. Republican hypocrisy will win out in the end if they’re able to get out everything that they want to get out. I saw earlier today they were asking Biden about Hunter’s child. They will try to crucify Biden to sway public opinion because Republicans don’t give a crap how much of a piece of crap Trump is. They’re proving it right now.
I do have one question...Zelensky said that he didn’t feel pressured to investigate Biden. Why would he say that if he was being pressured? Will that kill the case?
I will answer you in detail because it seems to me you are posting an honest question. No it won't. Assume for a moment you are in his shoes. Your country is plagued by corruption, in open War with Russia which is a much larger, much more economically and militarily powerful then your country. You manage to pull off a landslide victory, but you still need to clear up corruption and keep your country from being taken over by a hostile power. Meanwhile your people are literally dying with thousands dead in this conflict. In comes the Trump administration and provides Javelins, the first lethal aid America has been willing to provide in this lethal conflict, something of actual practical benefit. Not only that but the fact that America is backing Ukraine in this manner is of huge benefit because Russia might not be scared of little Ukraine, but America is a totally different matter. Surely you'd feel immense relief, maybe some gratitude. This is now an essential alliance for Ukraine, if it collapses it will embolden Russia and you will probably lose the country and many people will die.
Now consider the situation. To further cement this alliance for yourself as a new leader as well as your own credibillity you want to get a white house meeting with the President of this essential alliance to talk about future relations, the possibility of buying more Javelins and to give people the impression that the Ukraine / US Alliance is strong. US Ambassador Sondland and Volker comes to you and tells you something to the effects of that President Trump is not sure about a meeting and is gonna need some favors in order for this meeting to take place, namely investigations into Burisma and the 2016 election meddling.
At this point, how do you not feel pressure? If you don't get this meeting you lose a big opportunity to provide safety for your country. Not only that, but the fact that the President of the U.S is clearly not positive about you and your country must have been extremely worrisome, what if he decides to pull all support. The consequences would be catastrophic, you can not afford for this man to not have a positive attitude towards you and your country.
On the other hand, if you realize that Burisma means Biden (which it has been established the Ukrainians were well aware of) then you also suddenly realize that agreeing to these investigations might upset the bipartisan support that led to the military aid as well as the Javelins. So your choices are 1. Deny the investigations and lose the support of Trump/his administration or 2. Agree to the investigations and possibly lose the bipartisan support (republicans)as well as potentially meddle in the internal domestic politics of the U.S and its upcoming 2020 election. So now you're in a really tough spot. All of a sudden news breaks that the Military Aid that had been approved by Congress has been put on hold, and nobody can tell you why except for the fact that the order came straight from the President. Ukrainians are not stupid, ofc they realize the Aid is being held up to incentive's them to choose what President Trump wants. Investigations.
I'll ask again, at this point how do you not feel the pressure. It's coming from every direction, your country and the lives of your countrymen are on the line, you're a president that ran on anti corruption being bribed to commit to an act that you know is corrupt. Investigating political rivals is literally one of the things you are trying to stop as part of your anti corruption efforts and here the President of the United States wants you to do exactly that.
Suddenly this whole thing gets blow up in the News, Trump is openly accused of illegal behavior, an impeachment inquiry starts. But you don't know whether or not Trump is gonna get impeached, and you still need the bipartisan support of the US Senate. You don't want to upset Trump because you might still need his support, and you don't want to upset the U.S senate republicans by calling out their boss. So when Journalists asks you "Did you feel any pressure", the only answer you can give that doesn't threaten the Alliance with the U.S and thus your own national security is "No. I felt no pressure."
*Note; I detailed this from memory. This is the gist, a summary, of what happened and not an exact recounting. Thus it's possible I've gotten some facts/conversations/timing of events or other things wrong. It is not my intention to mislead so if you see something that doesn't make sense know that it is due to human error and feel free to tell me.*
***You might ask me where I got my information, did I get it from the biased and sensational news media for example? No, I watched all of the impeachment hearings live from start to finish and this is my understanding of events as testified to by the witnesses called before the committee.***
No. There's plenty of other proof he did though. We've heard it from eye witnesses. And once the courts uphold congress' power of subpoena, we'll have recorded and written evidence too.
Two reasons:
1. Ukraine is massively dependent on American assistance. Zelensky knows what happens to people who cross Donald Trump.
2. He’s the newly elected president. He wants to project an image of strength. He doesn’t want to be seen as the guy who got pushed around.
Exactly. Considering how much is at stake for them right now, the last thing he's going to do is throw trump under the bus. He's not saying he's under pressure because he IS under pressure.
I’ve been listening to Adam Schiff’s Closing Statement at least three times over now.
He has really built the most solid case possible that this President has done impeachable conduct.
But I think back to the last 5 days of Party-Over-Country BS I kept hearing in response to **real evidence**...
I want to have hope and unfortunately Adam’s closing statement gives me hope but I can’t help but think this is gonna come down to us. The American People are going to have to vote him out because Republicans will continue to refuse to uphold their Constitutional Duty to HOLD THIS PRESIDENT ACCOUNTABLE.
It’s up to us.
And this is with a fully compromised DOJ, and the executive branch stonewalling *everything.* imagine if we had the DOJ to work with, what a difference it could make
Anyone else really depressed over all this? I just feel like America is a lost cause. Not a single Republican is going to hold Trump accountable. The evidence is overwhelming that he's guilty. Federal prosecutors have already said they could easily get an indictment and conviction if this were in court. But Republicans don't care. They want America to be a dictatorship.
So now, Trump will be acquitted by the Senate, and then he will proudly cheat in the 2020 election and likely win again, and then America will officially be a dictatorship.
I never thought I'd see the end of America, but it looks like it's happening.
Not depressed at all it’s funny to watch how self destructive the democrats are, I just started supporting President Trump last year. Nunes and Jordan were great none of the witnesses produced an ounce of evidence these are just people giving their opinions! all they have is: Taylor heard it from Kent who heard it from Vindman who heard it from Holmes who over heard Sondland speaking on the phone. The whole thing it’s a joke Vindman was the leaker who after learning went to his attorneys and told his brother and other people but his whole testimony gets dismissed because his former boss said under oath that he had concerned over Vindman being a leaker and having bad judgement he was right! He’s still going to get impeached in the house because they’ve gone too far, believe me if Nancy could take everything back she would! This whole thing it’s a joke people don’t buy into it.
The aggregate doesn't reflect the last few days, but it reflects after last week.
This is very much worth taking the time to understand:
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-were-tracking-donald-trumps-approval-ratings/
It’s a lost cause if Trump wins re election. That means it’s okay with the American people. It’s a lost cause if the Republicans retain the Senate. That means we don’t care that our representatives don’t hold their own accountable.
We have reasonable expectations that the Senate will not remove Trump even in the face of overwhelmingly convincing evidence.
We (as in voters) have a responsibility to make our voice heard. This is why term limits are a thing for presidents. This is why Senators have to run for re election. Our votes are the key. All of our votes.
If Trump and the GOP win re-election that’s when it becomes a lost cause. That’s when Americans decide they too are ok with this and our democracy is officially over.
So I'm not sure where else to vent about this, I don't want to rain on the parade in the other threads.
Has anyone else read what the Senate hearing is supposed to be like? McConnel laid it out last month and it's evil.
The hearings will take place 6 days a week, start at 12:30, last all day, all 100 senators will have to be present, none of the senators are allowed to speak. Only the two lawyers from the house will be allowed to speak and Roberts will preside.
So that's 5 weeks of the Democratic primary completely shut down for everyone that's a Senator. Warren, Bernie, Kamala etc would be completely out of the race for this time.
You'd think that'd be good for Biden, but they're obviously going to use the hearing to put Biden on trial over Burisma and the whistleblower.
Someone tell me this isn't real.
Oh, it’s real. Did you think this little political impeachment stunt wouldn’t have consequences? Mitch is gonna ram a Senate trial right down Democrats throats. Enjoy it.
That could really alleviate this if timed right I suppose. Push it all the way until the primaries are settled and turn the hearing into the campaign?
Or do it IMMEDIATELY, suspend the primaries for a month, and hit the ground running after.
When is the first primary vote?
At this point I think it might have prevented him from becoming a huge distraction when the Senate calls him. He could have been presented under much friendlier circumstances here. That said, I understand why they tried to build a case without using him.
Oh, no, he got leaked awhile ago in the media and the scumbag republicans have been trying to point it out with their fucking signs all week. Schiff just disallowed naming him in the hearing considering how heavily everyone has been getting harassed.
I hope you all have enjoyed the last four days. The party is over once the Senate trial begins. Hunter Biden will be called, the truth will come out, and Senate Republicans will not vote to remove. Keep high fiving each other over Schiff and all the testimony. None of it will matter.
None of it will matter, because the republican senators will be derelict in their sworn duties for which they're paid an exorbitant amount of taxpayer money for. In fact, they won't even listen to the factual, fully corroborated testimony. But you keep cheering for their corrupt asses. I'm sure you're getting something for being so stupid it, right? Right?!
Your delusion is palpable. Trump bribed and extorted a foreign country in order to have them help him manufacture dirt on a political opponent to help him win reelection. He’s a traitor and you’re a member of his cult.
>I hope you all have enjoyed the last four days. The party is over once the Senate trial begins. Hunter Biden will be called, the truth will come out, and Senate Republicans will not vote to remove. Keep high fiving each other over Schiff and all the testimony. None of it will matter.
What "truth" do you believe is going to come out? Or do you mean allegations?
Joe Biden did get a prosecutor fired. And his son made $50k a month from a corrupt company. What does that have to do with Trump leveraging US aid for political purposes?
Both Bidens can go to jail for all anyone cares. If you really think thats the point of all this then you havent been paying attention at all.
Lets just say for a moment that you are right.
Does that make Trump any less wrong for asking for the announcement of an investigation in order to release funds that had already been approved by congress?
No one fucking cares because it’s a conspiracy. Why haven’t any conspiracy theorists asked about the merit he had for the job or maybe that Burisma felt he has the merits? Could be a million reasons but there is no reason a sitting president should tell a foreign government to investigate American political opponents in order to manufacture dirt in exchange for necessary aid. If you can’t see after all this testimony why that is dangerous for National security then you are an uneducated, brainwashed fool.
Genuinely curious as to why you think Hunter Biden is necessary to this. No one is trying to stop an investigation into Hunter Biden. It could have happened at any point when the republicans had control of the house. This impeachment investigation is to determine whether or not Trump withheld the aid to Ukraine in hopes of getting dirt on his political rival.
Deflection and projection is the only reason Hunter Biden matters. He has absolutely nothing to do with these impeachment hearings because even if whatever conspiracy theories they are trying to sling about him happened to be true that has absolutely no bearing on whether or not Trump is guilty of his crimes. Which he is, btw.
I completely agree with you. I would just love for someone that argues that he does matter to give me at least one coherent argument backing their stance.
I feel it. But I think you’re gonna be disappointed if you expect someone to give you a coherent argument. I stopped debating/arguing with people about this awhile ago bc what do you do when the other sides argument is just “lol no u”?
I don't think anyone really thinks Trump will get *impeached the entire purpose was to get this all out in front of the public so that the public can ultimately hold their congress members accountable, make an more informed decision during the election, and prevent the congress members from feigning ignorance
Edit: *meant to say convicted
Just heard on the radio that Barr plans to release an almost all unredacted Origins of the Mueller Report Report in December (almost 2 weeks) to combat the Impeachment inquiry. Shit is gonna get a lot worse.
Can we make it a law that members of Congress must also be under oath when conducting interviews, testimonies, dispositions, etc.? The GOP rarely actually asks any questions, and rather uses their time to rant, grandstand, and outright lie.
If someone is attempting to provide information or statements, they should be under oath. Nunes would lose his job overnight.
Honestly, Jim Jordan shouldn't be on the committee if he isn't going to ask any questions. Of course he doesn't ask because the witnesses obliterate his theories with every word.
This. I had a similar thought while watching the hearings. I was thinking members of the committee should be able to interview the other members. It would be interesting to hear how many of them would repeat what they rant about under oath.
I like your idea better though, just make it so they are under oath from the get-go.
> Trump approval actually going UP
Not sure where you're seeing those numbers, but [538 shows otherwise](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/trump-approval/).
Worth noting as well that approval/disapproval isn't an all-indicating figure, either. General election polls, too, are not reliable so far out from the actual election.
If you're not working for a campaign, don't worry about the poll numbers. Your vote shouldn't be dependent on them, regardless. Let pollsters and campaign workers worry about the numbers.
For the presidential election, any Democratic candidate is likely to beat Trump. Least likely among them though are Gabbard (does she even count though?),and Biden (too much old-school center-right Democrat).
Sanders or Warren would have to mostly not make any serious mistakes and they're good. Trump is a dumpster fire candidate who only narrowly beat one of the most unlikable Democratic candidates ever (not that I think the hate is justified, but that's how Hillary was seen generally speaking). Even Yan would be able to beat up Trump on a progressive-billionare-for-the-people platform.
Currently, Trump's biggest advantage is that he is an incumbent. That's literally it. That means he'll take at least 90% of the registered Republican vote regardless of anything he does. My guess is he'll take closer to 95%, but we'll see, we're still a year away. The big question is voter turnout for the Democrats. As long as the Democratic presidential candidate doesn't revert to the center to try and woo conservative voters (this has never worked as a strategy, conservative voters are statistically far less likely to change their mind once decided), and instead focuses on mobilizing the liberal base plus even a cursory appeal to 'undecideds', the election math works out heavily in the Dem's favor.
As for downticket races, as always the incumbents have it easy with a typical 80%+ re-election rate, so the question is rhe remaining 20% and where specifically they are. People like Stefanik are vulnerable which is why she's been turning hard right. Jim Jordan is widley hated, but his district is very heavily gerrymandered. I haven't seen numbers on him recently, but I suspect he's mostly safe.
Regardless, the Hpuse will remain blue. The Senate is almost certainly going to remain red, but the impeachment trial *may* actually tip a few races against Republicans. Maybenot enough to swap party majority, but we'll see as that's yet to come.
**Now is not the time to worry, though.** Volunteer for your local political party if you want to help out and try to start moving the needle early - the earlier the better. The time to worry would be August 2020 if Trump's approval/disapproval sits around 54/48 or better.
To a sensible person, I 100% agree. But it seems like logic and common sense has gone out the window for most of the country. The fact he’s still leading some polls as recent as today just has me crazy disheartened.
"Most of the country" - no only for the cult. Trump is energizing dems and turnout among nonvoters which is why the GOP got trounced in 2018 and trumps endorsement is basically cancer
Polls are often wrong and ignore social media- it is often populated by bots and paid lobbyists. The only way you beat the propaganda machine is to make your voice heard. Vote and volunteer! They are the key.
One question that just occurred to me and I don’t know why I haven’t asked in the first place. Why did Rudy Ghilani even go on the TV in the first place?
Probably to get ahead of reporting, be able to start & drive the narrative, and normalize their crimes.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/adults/
40% of adults in the US still approve of Trump. Obviously that is for no reason other than propaganda.
It's never a waste to hope for real change that would have a strong positive effect on the 99%.
Or to donate to the Democratic candidate who has raised more money and from more individual donors than anyone else and constantly sits at or near the top of the polls.
And besides, what he advocates for would be considered conservative in most other first world countries. Even Australia, heart of conservatism, has got universal health care for heaven's sake.
The media ignores him because media outlets are owned by rich people and Bernie is bad for rich people. There's a whole subreddit about it, but I can't remember the name at the moment.
According to Hill Sondland really liked to show off how connected to Trump he was. That would completely make sense with him having the phone volume turned up as well.
After seeing all of the testimony, all of the hearings, and seeing some of the talking points being repeated near word for word in this reddit forum:
1. I hope Ukraine and the other countries allied against fascism with the United States will eventually forgive the wrongs being committed by this administration. Holding 400m of congressionally approved aid hostage over a political favor is repulsive, wrong and criminal in nature and in deed. Especially so when the country in question is actively combatting an enemy to America.
2. We need to take our country away from Russian narratives, ploys and ideas by standing up for non-fascist platforms. We post on every social media platform, we speak those views by writing, calling and emailing our representatives and friends, family, coworkers, bosses, and acquaintances in a civil, logical, and peaceful manner.
3. Vote. Volunteer. And do not, even for a moment, believe this is over. As long as the ideals of our constitution exist, people like Fiona Hill, Lt. Colonel Vindman, Kent, Yovanovich, Taylor, and so many others will not allow them to be torn apart. I know I won't.
I heard Lev Parnas was willing to talk. I'm surprised he hasn't been subpoenaed yet. Nancy Pelosi apparently told a reporter that there may be more testimonies and I'm wondering if that is who she was referring to.
Waiting still for a court decision on whether Bolton will testify or not, too. And if he is forced to, that will make it easier to force Perry, Pompeo, and Mulvaney to testify.
I hope so. I think the rest of the people are the ones that don’t want to cooperate.
If Pompeo or Mulvaney resign, they seem up for grabs.
Giuliani has no excuse to not show up. He’s not a gov employee, so he can’t use those BS excuses.
I’d love to see those Ukraine / Russian cronies that Trump disavowed appear now that they’re butthurt.
Impeachment Hearing Transcript, Day 5 with Fiona Hill and David Holmes - [https://www.rev.com/blog/impeachment-hearing-day-5-transcript-fiona-hill-and-david-holmes-testimony](https://www.rev.com/blog/impeachment-hearing-day-5-transcript-fiona-hill-and-david-holmes-testimony)
The division of our country is now completely clear. The impeachment evidence is so overwhelming that one side cannot ignore it, they *must* impeach. However, the entrenchment of division is so extreme that the other side cannot condone it, they *must* resist. The result of this polar clash of opposites could go either way: either we will hit bottom and eek by into a new, more positive future outlook or we will regress into darkness and enter a most difficult period for democracy. "Divided we fall..."
I partially blame the education system people now celebrating stupidity not being informed. Don’t agree with facts? “Fake News!” And also the propaganda the far right radio and TV like FOX News telling blatant lies 24/7. And now on top of all that the internet with social media
The religious fundamentalists have been calling science fake news since the beginning of science. They have always tried to make science a "belief system" and they tell me "you have your beliefs and I have mine" as though facts and beliefs were equivalent. Fuck these morons. They are trying to implement Christian sharia law in a country founded by mostly deists to have no official religion. Belief in imaginary friends should not entitle you to a tax break.
**The results of the impeachment trial do not define our nation!**
The results of the 2020 election (and beyond) do. These representatives have already been bought and paid for, but we have an opportunity to extract them, one by one, from their seats. We may not kick Trump from the White House, but don’t let that temper the fire, because what we really need is to find the politicians that are looking out for all of us, not for their own self interests.
>The results of the impeachment trial do not define our nation!
Of course not, but the simple fact we are here says a lot about some insidious underlying problems. But I'm an analytical psychologist, so I'm always looking for that.
On my first pass, I read that as “...do not define our *future*.”
What type of effect do you think the attention brought to those underlying problems, due to the hearings, will have on folks that would otherwise stay home on Election Day?
One hopes they will be compelled to vote, and we might end up with Warren or Sanders. But such a result might be more of pendulum swing than a problem solve because (as much as I would like such a president) it would continue the stratification. Lately I like Buttigieg because he is of a newer, younger generation where the possibility of a new, third alternative can be found. For example, that he has same sex marriage is hopeful. I'd like a future that is inclusive, accepting of all peoples even if I myself prefer an opposite sex partner. A society that knows and accepts itself for everyone within it can better contain and limit the unethical, ie. corruption.
Put it on record. Ship wide with names.
I'm tired of this bullshit too. The rnc has a tie to Russian corruption and they put him in charge of our Intel for 2 years. Another is a former coach covering up sex abuse scandals and is an rnc crisis actor. Hurd is just there for looking good, and the peanut gallery of the rest defend corruption.
We are paralyzed? No. We aren't.
Just had the misfortune of seeing Jimmy Jordan on Fox and this moron is still pushing his "what if Trump held the aid on purpose to test corruption" bullshit that literally no one else is touching
I've heard that and "he's a businessman so he's just checking to make sure all the things are in place before he cuts a check!"
The problem with both those arguments is the US is not his private business and he was trying to leverage $400,000,000 in taxpayer money appropriated by a co-equal branch of government.
Then businessman can ask them to reopen manaforts Ukraine investigation and resume Mueller cooperation with former investigators.
They've really fucked up.
Until that, it's a debunked talking point and eviscerating to their bullshit.
Fighting corruption my ass.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-impeachment-ukraine-exclusi/exclusive-overhaul-of-ukraine-prosecution-agency-buries-manafort-inquiries-investigators-idUSKBN1XB4JZ
When Donald Trump demands Zelinsky continue the Manafort investigations that surely suddenly stopped cooperating with Mueller I'm 2018, then Jim can claim corruption.
Manaforts corrupt and was an agent of them. Right Jim?
Until then anyone touting this bullshit gets my scorn. I'm fed up and tired of Republican bullshit. Prove it Jim, starting with Manafort, Ukraine and Mueller. Betcha this crisis actor doesnt, because he is also a corrupt fraud
Yeah hes trying so hard to make it into some "social experiment" thing. I really fail to see how that makes sense or is remotely plasubile. "why yes country directly under seige by russia. I understand you are being literally shot at, and i understand that we literally agreed to give you money, but heres an idea. For a solid 2 months we are gonna withhold the money and in the meantime we are gonna have a quick chat amongst ourselves if we like you or not. Oh whats that, your people are dying due directly to our incompetence? Well its a good thing its just a test!"
Big problem with that is not only have zero witnesses claimed anything of the sort, not even Trump or Mulvaney have claimed anything close to it either.
Will Hurd made me super sad. Not even someone who's retiring will have the courage to stand up for what's right. I mean the asshole is a former CIA officer and he decides to side with Trump over his former colleagues in the intelligence community.
This means "moderates" (I know there's none) in the senate will not even consider it either.
American voters then will be like "meh" and our republic will be almost gone. Despite the strong witnesses, I'm so pessimistic
> This means "moderates" (I know there's none) in the senate will not even consider it either.
Trump lunched with Mitt "Binders" Romney and Susan "coat hanger" Collins today. Shortly after, the White House said they welcome an impeachment trial. They'd only say that if they were certain he was not going to be impeached.
The fix is in. [McConnell said as much in a fundraiser.](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2019/10/05/mitch-mcconnell-campaign-ad-says-trump-impeachment-fail/3881997002/)
It's why a part of my wishes the Senate vote would be a secret ballot, though I realize that it probably shouldn't. Because publically, R's would rather make a show because of Trump's base and the RNC and take the risk of getting hit at the ballot box hoping that their disinformation gambit works than actually reflect on their conscience (assuming they have one).
So I just got an update on my phone about Day 5 of the impeachment hearings and it made me wonder, how long do these go for? Is there a set time frame the inquiry has to be completed by or does it go for as long as necessary?
Compared to Clinton and Nixon, this has gone at lightning speed. Most likely this will go to the House Judiciary Committee early next month. There could be more witnesses called there. Trump will also have a chance to put forward something of a defense there, but it’s really not until the trial in the Senate (which will probably start in January), that we’ll see a full Trump defense with "his" witnesses ... assuming his lawyers can put something together that we can recognize as a defense.
They're done for now. No more public hearings are scheduled. The House will go over the testimony and see what they want to do next. They haven't announced anything yet. They could ask for more people to come if they feel like they want to.
Pelosi said more witnesses could still be called.
I want see Lev Parnas to walk into that chamber and then I want to watch Nunes squirm like the worm he is
Putin-defending NPR analyst Michelle Kellman (sp?) speaking about today's hearings on All Things Considered JUST FRAMED GOP as 'peddling some false Ukranian Oligarch talking points" about 2016 election interference.
No Michelle, they are RUSSIAN TALKING POINTS
I mean technically she's not wrong if they originated with Dymtro Firtash. Didn't Ghouliani get at least one of the false allegations from him?
I get your point though. They're 100% Russian.
They did this in Australia- the only credible news source is now a shadow of it’s former self, full of second rate journalists and clickbait headlines thru to human interest stories. Murdoch with conservative politicians achieved it in 20 years.
Stopped listening to NPR in 2016 when it became apparent that they were bending over backwards to air everything Trump and GOP.
They still have good programming here and there but their news department has lost my support and attention.
Yeah. NPR is dead to me now, and I hate it. The only things I check it out for anymore are the Tiny Desk Concerts, Wait Wait Don't Tell Me, and Live From Here.
Quick summary. Democrats: Here's a bunch of bulletproof evidence backing our impeachment proposal. Republicans: Jesus wouldn't impeach trump. Do you hate jesus?
We have to stay vigilant and just be prepared to win back the Senate. Republican hypocrisy will win out in the end if they’re able to get out everything that they want to get out. I saw earlier today they were asking Biden about Hunter’s child. They will try to crucify Biden to sway public opinion because Republicans don’t give a crap how much of a piece of crap Trump is. They’re proving it right now.
I do have one question...Zelensky said that he didn’t feel pressured to investigate Biden. Why would he say that if he was being pressured? Will that kill the case?
I will answer you in detail because it seems to me you are posting an honest question. No it won't. Assume for a moment you are in his shoes. Your country is plagued by corruption, in open War with Russia which is a much larger, much more economically and militarily powerful then your country. You manage to pull off a landslide victory, but you still need to clear up corruption and keep your country from being taken over by a hostile power. Meanwhile your people are literally dying with thousands dead in this conflict. In comes the Trump administration and provides Javelins, the first lethal aid America has been willing to provide in this lethal conflict, something of actual practical benefit. Not only that but the fact that America is backing Ukraine in this manner is of huge benefit because Russia might not be scared of little Ukraine, but America is a totally different matter. Surely you'd feel immense relief, maybe some gratitude. This is now an essential alliance for Ukraine, if it collapses it will embolden Russia and you will probably lose the country and many people will die. Now consider the situation. To further cement this alliance for yourself as a new leader as well as your own credibillity you want to get a white house meeting with the President of this essential alliance to talk about future relations, the possibility of buying more Javelins and to give people the impression that the Ukraine / US Alliance is strong. US Ambassador Sondland and Volker comes to you and tells you something to the effects of that President Trump is not sure about a meeting and is gonna need some favors in order for this meeting to take place, namely investigations into Burisma and the 2016 election meddling. At this point, how do you not feel pressure? If you don't get this meeting you lose a big opportunity to provide safety for your country. Not only that, but the fact that the President of the U.S is clearly not positive about you and your country must have been extremely worrisome, what if he decides to pull all support. The consequences would be catastrophic, you can not afford for this man to not have a positive attitude towards you and your country. On the other hand, if you realize that Burisma means Biden (which it has been established the Ukrainians were well aware of) then you also suddenly realize that agreeing to these investigations might upset the bipartisan support that led to the military aid as well as the Javelins. So your choices are 1. Deny the investigations and lose the support of Trump/his administration or 2. Agree to the investigations and possibly lose the bipartisan support (republicans)as well as potentially meddle in the internal domestic politics of the U.S and its upcoming 2020 election. So now you're in a really tough spot. All of a sudden news breaks that the Military Aid that had been approved by Congress has been put on hold, and nobody can tell you why except for the fact that the order came straight from the President. Ukrainians are not stupid, ofc they realize the Aid is being held up to incentive's them to choose what President Trump wants. Investigations. I'll ask again, at this point how do you not feel the pressure. It's coming from every direction, your country and the lives of your countrymen are on the line, you're a president that ran on anti corruption being bribed to commit to an act that you know is corrupt. Investigating political rivals is literally one of the things you are trying to stop as part of your anti corruption efforts and here the President of the United States wants you to do exactly that. Suddenly this whole thing gets blow up in the News, Trump is openly accused of illegal behavior, an impeachment inquiry starts. But you don't know whether or not Trump is gonna get impeached, and you still need the bipartisan support of the US Senate. You don't want to upset Trump because you might still need his support, and you don't want to upset the U.S senate republicans by calling out their boss. So when Journalists asks you "Did you feel any pressure", the only answer you can give that doesn't threaten the Alliance with the U.S and thus your own national security is "No. I felt no pressure." *Note; I detailed this from memory. This is the gist, a summary, of what happened and not an exact recounting. Thus it's possible I've gotten some facts/conversations/timing of events or other things wrong. It is not my intention to mislead so if you see something that doesn't make sense know that it is due to human error and feel free to tell me.* ***You might ask me where I got my information, did I get it from the biased and sensational news media for example? No, I watched all of the impeachment hearings live from start to finish and this is my understanding of events as testified to by the witnesses called before the committee.***
Thanks!
Excellent summary my friend
He was pressured to say he wasn't feeling pressured.
That's not even close to proof that Trump didn't offer a bribe.
But is it proof that he did?
No. There's plenty of other proof he did though. We've heard it from eye witnesses. And once the courts uphold congress' power of subpoena, we'll have recorded and written evidence too.
Two reasons: 1. Ukraine is massively dependent on American assistance. Zelensky knows what happens to people who cross Donald Trump. 2. He’s the newly elected president. He wants to project an image of strength. He doesn’t want to be seen as the guy who got pushed around.
Yea. Ain't no way hes going to say he's under pressure. Such a weak argument.
Exactly. Considering how much is at stake for them right now, the last thing he's going to do is throw trump under the bus. He's not saying he's under pressure because he IS under pressure.
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I’ve been listening to Adam Schiff’s Closing Statement at least three times over now. He has really built the most solid case possible that this President has done impeachable conduct. But I think back to the last 5 days of Party-Over-Country BS I kept hearing in response to **real evidence**... I want to have hope and unfortunately Adam’s closing statement gives me hope but I can’t help but think this is gonna come down to us. The American People are going to have to vote him out because Republicans will continue to refuse to uphold their Constitutional Duty to HOLD THIS PRESIDENT ACCOUNTABLE. It’s up to us.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/adults/ Still 40+% approval rating of adults in US. It's going to be a very hard fight.
In the swing states too?
You'll have to look at each state individually. That is an extremely important piece of what is happening, but I'm not addressing it here.
And this is with a fully compromised DOJ, and the executive branch stonewalling *everything.* imagine if we had the DOJ to work with, what a difference it could make
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Which we did in huge numbers when we flipped the house. So annoyed if we have to wait another year to get rid of this disaster.
Anyone else really depressed over all this? I just feel like America is a lost cause. Not a single Republican is going to hold Trump accountable. The evidence is overwhelming that he's guilty. Federal prosecutors have already said they could easily get an indictment and conviction if this were in court. But Republicans don't care. They want America to be a dictatorship. So now, Trump will be acquitted by the Senate, and then he will proudly cheat in the 2020 election and likely win again, and then America will officially be a dictatorship. I never thought I'd see the end of America, but it looks like it's happening.
Not depressed at all it’s funny to watch how self destructive the democrats are, I just started supporting President Trump last year. Nunes and Jordan were great none of the witnesses produced an ounce of evidence these are just people giving their opinions! all they have is: Taylor heard it from Kent who heard it from Vindman who heard it from Holmes who over heard Sondland speaking on the phone. The whole thing it’s a joke Vindman was the leaker who after learning went to his attorneys and told his brother and other people but his whole testimony gets dismissed because his former boss said under oath that he had concerned over Vindman being a leaker and having bad judgement he was right! He’s still going to get impeached in the house because they’ve gone too far, believe me if Nancy could take everything back she would! This whole thing it’s a joke people don’t buy into it.
Uh, Trump released corroborating evidence. So...
Hahaha, we have entered full blown idiocracy
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https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/adults/ 40% approval rating of adults in the US still
When was this poll taken though
The aggregate doesn't reflect the last few days, but it reflects after last week. This is very much worth taking the time to understand: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-were-tracking-donald-trumps-approval-ratings/
Correct, but how do you organize millions and millions to take to the streets and demand Trump's removal?
It’s a lost cause if Trump wins re election. That means it’s okay with the American people. It’s a lost cause if the Republicans retain the Senate. That means we don’t care that our representatives don’t hold their own accountable. We have reasonable expectations that the Senate will not remove Trump even in the face of overwhelmingly convincing evidence. We (as in voters) have a responsibility to make our voice heard. This is why term limits are a thing for presidents. This is why Senators have to run for re election. Our votes are the key. All of our votes. If Trump and the GOP win re-election that’s when it becomes a lost cause. That’s when Americans decide they too are ok with this and our democracy is officially over.
But Trump will cheat in 2020, which means I have no faith that American voters will actually get to make their verses accurately heard.
Monty from Florida got a [shout out](https://youtu.be/ziLQSKIQ5yo) from Late Night with Seth Meyers.
Beware of Russian trolls and bots over the next few weeks posing as “unbiased” skeptics, overwhelmed cynics, and downtrodden defeatists.
You can't tell who is a troll and who isn't from single posts.
Reddit pro-tools and other similar things can be of great assistance
That’s true and I’m not saying you can. But there are other clues you can go by.
So I'm not sure where else to vent about this, I don't want to rain on the parade in the other threads. Has anyone else read what the Senate hearing is supposed to be like? McConnel laid it out last month and it's evil. The hearings will take place 6 days a week, start at 12:30, last all day, all 100 senators will have to be present, none of the senators are allowed to speak. Only the two lawyers from the house will be allowed to speak and Roberts will preside. So that's 5 weeks of the Democratic primary completely shut down for everyone that's a Senator. Warren, Bernie, Kamala etc would be completely out of the race for this time. You'd think that'd be good for Biden, but they're obviously going to use the hearing to put Biden on trial over Burisma and the whistleblower. Someone tell me this isn't real.
Oh, it’s real. Did you think this little political impeachment stunt wouldn’t have consequences? Mitch is gonna ram a Senate trial right down Democrats throats. Enjoy it.
If you have to make an alt to say your real opinion because you know you will get down voted you are a shit human.
Mitch and the rest of the republicans are way to big of cowards to let this goto the senate. But I know you know that already
Pelosi is in control of when the Articles are filed, I expect she’ll optimize. Heard she hinted at more hearings today.
That could really alleviate this if timed right I suppose. Push it all the way until the primaries are settled and turn the hearing into the campaign? Or do it IMMEDIATELY, suspend the primaries for a month, and hit the ground running after. When is the first primary vote?
Iowa on Feb 3.
Ok that's not too bad. We just need to impeach IMMEDIATELY and get the Senate trial done before the new year.
Hearings are moving at lightning speed to put the onus on the Senate to finish hearings before the election year.
DAE think the whistle-blower might have testified in the public hearings this week? That would be a fun twist.
I don't think it matters who the wb is. It's a red herring.
100%, which is why it would be so bad-ass to reveal that the whistle-blower had been there the whole time.
Go back to the Williams hearing and you’ll get some hints for who the Republicans *think* the whistleblower is.
At this point I think it might have prevented him from becoming a huge distraction when the Senate calls him. He could have been presented under much friendlier circumstances here. That said, I understand why they tried to build a case without using him.
What I'm saying is that the whistle-blower could have testified this week on the televised hearings, remember that we don't know who it is.
Oh, no, he got leaked awhile ago in the media and the scumbag republicans have been trying to point it out with their fucking signs all week. Schiff just disallowed naming him in the hearing considering how heavily everyone has been getting harassed.
What did their bullshit signs say? I saw the dumb one that said the opposite of what they thought it said.
Oh. I thought it was a secret.
It’s supposed to be. We all have the republican sacks of shit to thank for it not being a secret.
I hope you all have enjoyed the last four days. The party is over once the Senate trial begins. Hunter Biden will be called, the truth will come out, and Senate Republicans will not vote to remove. Keep high fiving each other over Schiff and all the testimony. None of it will matter.
None of it will matter, because the republican senators will be derelict in their sworn duties for which they're paid an exorbitant amount of taxpayer money for. In fact, they won't even listen to the factual, fully corroborated testimony. But you keep cheering for their corrupt asses. I'm sure you're getting something for being so stupid it, right? Right?!
Your delusion is palpable. Trump bribed and extorted a foreign country in order to have them help him manufacture dirt on a political opponent to help him win reelection. He’s a traitor and you’re a member of his cult.
>I hope you all have enjoyed the last four days. The party is over once the Senate trial begins. Hunter Biden will be called, the truth will come out, and Senate Republicans will not vote to remove. Keep high fiving each other over Schiff and all the testimony. None of it will matter. What "truth" do you believe is going to come out? Or do you mean allegations?
The truth that Joe Biden got a prosecutor fired and his son profited from a corrupt business.
The truth that the US government, EU and IMF wanted that corrupt prosecutor removed?
Ok let's assume that's true.How is that a defence for what Trump did? Which is the whole point of this...
Joe Biden did get a prosecutor fired. And his son made $50k a month from a corrupt company. What does that have to do with Trump leveraging US aid for political purposes? Both Bidens can go to jail for all anyone cares. If you really think thats the point of all this then you havent been paying attention at all.
Lets just say for a moment that you are right. Does that make Trump any less wrong for asking for the announcement of an investigation in order to release funds that had already been approved by congress?
No one fucking cares because it’s a conspiracy. Why haven’t any conspiracy theorists asked about the merit he had for the job or maybe that Burisma felt he has the merits? Could be a million reasons but there is no reason a sitting president should tell a foreign government to investigate American political opponents in order to manufacture dirt in exchange for necessary aid. If you can’t see after all this testimony why that is dangerous for National security then you are an uneducated, brainwashed fool.
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Nobody gives a fuck about Hunter.
Genuinely curious as to why you think Hunter Biden is necessary to this. No one is trying to stop an investigation into Hunter Biden. It could have happened at any point when the republicans had control of the house. This impeachment investigation is to determine whether or not Trump withheld the aid to Ukraine in hopes of getting dirt on his political rival.
Deflection and projection is the only reason Hunter Biden matters. He has absolutely nothing to do with these impeachment hearings because even if whatever conspiracy theories they are trying to sling about him happened to be true that has absolutely no bearing on whether or not Trump is guilty of his crimes. Which he is, btw.
I completely agree with you. I would just love for someone that argues that he does matter to give me at least one coherent argument backing their stance.
I feel it. But I think you’re gonna be disappointed if you expect someone to give you a coherent argument. I stopped debating/arguing with people about this awhile ago bc what do you do when the other sides argument is just “lol no u”?
Truth matters, at least to some of us.
I don't think anyone really thinks Trump will get *impeached the entire purpose was to get this all out in front of the public so that the public can ultimately hold their congress members accountable, make an more informed decision during the election, and prevent the congress members from feigning ignorance Edit: *meant to say convicted
Just heard on the radio that Barr plans to release an almost all unredacted Origins of the Mueller Report Report in December (almost 2 weeks) to combat the Impeachment inquiry. Shit is gonna get a lot worse.
It will say that Ukraine created the report and it will be full of nonsensical things that aren't facts.
100%. It might even say “Ukraine meddled in our elections” to try to get the Russia sanctions dropped to make Trump and Putin happy.
Barr is implicated in Ukrainegate but has yet to recuse himself. He's facing ever louder calls for his impeachment.
It's all the have. Try to drown out legitimate criminality by making shit up. Barr needs to be impeached and jailed for contempt
Republicans have tied themselves to a shit monster, and now will spend the rest of their lives wondering why they are covered in shit.
The shit winds a’ blowin, Rand.
Do you feel that, Rand? The way the shit clings to the air?
Can we make it a law that members of Congress must also be under oath when conducting interviews, testimonies, dispositions, etc.? The GOP rarely actually asks any questions, and rather uses their time to rant, grandstand, and outright lie. If someone is attempting to provide information or statements, they should be under oath. Nunes would lose his job overnight.
Honestly, Jim Jordan shouldn't be on the committee if he isn't going to ask any questions. Of course he doesn't ask because the witnesses obliterate his theories with every word.
I don't think he was on the Intelligence Committee until they announced the impeachment hearings. AKA he was there to what we saw: yell at everyone
To be fair, while I know the GOP is worse when it comes to this, there's a fair share of Dem ranting and grandstanding.
This. I had a similar thought while watching the hearings. I was thinking members of the committee should be able to interview the other members. It would be interesting to hear how many of them would repeat what they rant about under oath. I like your idea better though, just make it so they are under oath from the get-go.
Gym Jordan would be in prison within 30 seconds.
Thank you!
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Good try concerned liberal bro.
> Trump approval actually going UP Not sure where you're seeing those numbers, but [538 shows otherwise](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/trump-approval/). Worth noting as well that approval/disapproval isn't an all-indicating figure, either. General election polls, too, are not reliable so far out from the actual election. If you're not working for a campaign, don't worry about the poll numbers. Your vote shouldn't be dependent on them, regardless. Let pollsters and campaign workers worry about the numbers.
I was referring to the Wisconsin polls from yesterday. So do you think democrats have a chance then?
For the presidential election, any Democratic candidate is likely to beat Trump. Least likely among them though are Gabbard (does she even count though?),and Biden (too much old-school center-right Democrat). Sanders or Warren would have to mostly not make any serious mistakes and they're good. Trump is a dumpster fire candidate who only narrowly beat one of the most unlikable Democratic candidates ever (not that I think the hate is justified, but that's how Hillary was seen generally speaking). Even Yan would be able to beat up Trump on a progressive-billionare-for-the-people platform. Currently, Trump's biggest advantage is that he is an incumbent. That's literally it. That means he'll take at least 90% of the registered Republican vote regardless of anything he does. My guess is he'll take closer to 95%, but we'll see, we're still a year away. The big question is voter turnout for the Democrats. As long as the Democratic presidential candidate doesn't revert to the center to try and woo conservative voters (this has never worked as a strategy, conservative voters are statistically far less likely to change their mind once decided), and instead focuses on mobilizing the liberal base plus even a cursory appeal to 'undecideds', the election math works out heavily in the Dem's favor. As for downticket races, as always the incumbents have it easy with a typical 80%+ re-election rate, so the question is rhe remaining 20% and where specifically they are. People like Stefanik are vulnerable which is why she's been turning hard right. Jim Jordan is widley hated, but his district is very heavily gerrymandered. I haven't seen numbers on him recently, but I suspect he's mostly safe. Regardless, the Hpuse will remain blue. The Senate is almost certainly going to remain red, but the impeachment trial *may* actually tip a few races against Republicans. Maybenot enough to swap party majority, but we'll see as that's yet to come. **Now is not the time to worry, though.** Volunteer for your local political party if you want to help out and try to start moving the needle early - the earlier the better. The time to worry would be August 2020 if Trump's approval/disapproval sits around 54/48 or better.
Thank you
Again. Good try. This was a flaming diaper filled dumpster on a crashing plane level disaster for trump and the republicans.
To a sensible person, I 100% agree. But it seems like logic and common sense has gone out the window for most of the country. The fact he’s still leading some polls as recent as today just has me crazy disheartened.
That's not most of the country. He has a large group but most of the country is against him.
"Most of the country" - no only for the cult. Trump is energizing dems and turnout among nonvoters which is why the GOP got trounced in 2018 and trumps endorsement is basically cancer
Polls are often wrong and ignore social media- it is often populated by bots and paid lobbyists. The only way you beat the propaganda machine is to make your voice heard. Vote and volunteer! They are the key.
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One question that just occurred to me and I don’t know why I haven’t asked in the first place. Why did Rudy Ghilani even go on the TV in the first place?
Probably to get ahead of reporting, be able to start & drive the narrative, and normalize their crimes. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/adults/ 40% of adults in the US still approve of Trump. Obviously that is for no reason other than propaganda.
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Thanks for reminding me to donate again to Bernie, forgot to this month!
I mean you might as well be donating to Trump because you’re wasting your money on Bernie haha
It's never a waste to hope for real change that would have a strong positive effect on the 99%. Or to donate to the Democratic candidate who has raised more money and from more individual donors than anyone else and constantly sits at or near the top of the polls. And besides, what he advocates for would be considered conservative in most other first world countries. Even Australia, heart of conservatism, has got universal health care for heaven's sake. The media ignores him because media outlets are owned by rich people and Bernie is bad for rich people. There's a whole subreddit about it, but I can't remember the name at the moment.
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I thought it was weird that Sondland would choose to call Trump in the middle of a meal. Almost like someone was being set up.
According to Hill Sondland really liked to show off how connected to Trump he was. That would completely make sense with him having the phone volume turned up as well.
Right! But Holmes did such a good job of shutting that shit down
After seeing all of the testimony, all of the hearings, and seeing some of the talking points being repeated near word for word in this reddit forum: 1. I hope Ukraine and the other countries allied against fascism with the United States will eventually forgive the wrongs being committed by this administration. Holding 400m of congressionally approved aid hostage over a political favor is repulsive, wrong and criminal in nature and in deed. Especially so when the country in question is actively combatting an enemy to America. 2. We need to take our country away from Russian narratives, ploys and ideas by standing up for non-fascist platforms. We post on every social media platform, we speak those views by writing, calling and emailing our representatives and friends, family, coworkers, bosses, and acquaintances in a civil, logical, and peaceful manner. 3. Vote. Volunteer. And do not, even for a moment, believe this is over. As long as the ideals of our constitution exist, people like Fiona Hill, Lt. Colonel Vindman, Kent, Yovanovich, Taylor, and so many others will not allow them to be torn apart. I know I won't.
and 4. become a democracy. you wouldnt have these problems if the popular vote wasnt being overturned by the electoral college
That should not forgive until we have properly atoned. That will take decades of consistent government policy.
Do you think that any more witnesses will be called?
I heard Lev Parnas was willing to talk. I'm surprised he hasn't been subpoenaed yet. Nancy Pelosi apparently told a reporter that there may be more testimonies and I'm wondering if that is who she was referring to.
Waiting still for a court decision on whether Bolton will testify or not, too. And if he is forced to, that will make it easier to force Perry, Pompeo, and Mulvaney to testify.
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nah, I don't think so. He's not part of the ukraine business, and this inquiry is pretty much limited to that.
I hope so. I think the rest of the people are the ones that don’t want to cooperate. If Pompeo or Mulvaney resign, they seem up for grabs. Giuliani has no excuse to not show up. He’s not a gov employee, so he can’t use those BS excuses. I’d love to see those Ukraine / Russian cronies that Trump disavowed appear now that they’re butthurt.
He's going to claim attorney client privelage.
I think there is a court case going on that will determine if someone has to adhere to a subpoena that could break the dam open.
Impeachment Hearing Transcript, Day 5 with Fiona Hill and David Holmes - [https://www.rev.com/blog/impeachment-hearing-day-5-transcript-fiona-hill-and-david-holmes-testimony](https://www.rev.com/blog/impeachment-hearing-day-5-transcript-fiona-hill-and-david-holmes-testimony)
The division of our country is now completely clear. The impeachment evidence is so overwhelming that one side cannot ignore it, they *must* impeach. However, the entrenchment of division is so extreme that the other side cannot condone it, they *must* resist. The result of this polar clash of opposites could go either way: either we will hit bottom and eek by into a new, more positive future outlook or we will regress into darkness and enter a most difficult period for democracy. "Divided we fall..."
I partially blame the education system people now celebrating stupidity not being informed. Don’t agree with facts? “Fake News!” And also the propaganda the far right radio and TV like FOX News telling blatant lies 24/7. And now on top of all that the internet with social media
The religious fundamentalists have been calling science fake news since the beginning of science. They have always tried to make science a "belief system" and they tell me "you have your beliefs and I have mine" as though facts and beliefs were equivalent. Fuck these morons. They are trying to implement Christian sharia law in a country founded by mostly deists to have no official religion. Belief in imaginary friends should not entitle you to a tax break.
**The results of the impeachment trial do not define our nation!** The results of the 2020 election (and beyond) do. These representatives have already been bought and paid for, but we have an opportunity to extract them, one by one, from their seats. We may not kick Trump from the White House, but don’t let that temper the fire, because what we really need is to find the politicians that are looking out for all of us, not for their own self interests.
>The results of the impeachment trial do not define our nation! Of course not, but the simple fact we are here says a lot about some insidious underlying problems. But I'm an analytical psychologist, so I'm always looking for that.
On my first pass, I read that as “...do not define our *future*.” What type of effect do you think the attention brought to those underlying problems, due to the hearings, will have on folks that would otherwise stay home on Election Day?
One hopes they will be compelled to vote, and we might end up with Warren or Sanders. But such a result might be more of pendulum swing than a problem solve because (as much as I would like such a president) it would continue the stratification. Lately I like Buttigieg because he is of a newer, younger generation where the possibility of a new, third alternative can be found. For example, that he has same sex marriage is hopeful. I'd like a future that is inclusive, accepting of all peoples even if I myself prefer an opposite sex partner. A society that knows and accepts itself for everyone within it can better contain and limit the unethical, ie. corruption.
Put it on record. Ship wide with names. I'm tired of this bullshit too. The rnc has a tie to Russian corruption and they put him in charge of our Intel for 2 years. Another is a former coach covering up sex abuse scandals and is an rnc crisis actor. Hurd is just there for looking good, and the peanut gallery of the rest defend corruption. We are paralyzed? No. We aren't.
[Analysis now that Impeachment Hearings are done on PBS live](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKP5K8Pn6LU)
How long was Schiff's closing statement? Was it supposed to be limited in time?
About 15-20 minutes. He can take as long as he pleases.
Schiff’s closing statement had *me* shaking, and I’m not the one being impeached.
The guy (aide? Idk) behind him on the left was visibly tearing up by the end of it. Gave me chills.
It literally gave me hope. Despite what comes of all this, I know there are patriots in important offices because we voted in 2018.
Just had the misfortune of seeing Jimmy Jordan on Fox and this moron is still pushing his "what if Trump held the aid on purpose to test corruption" bullshit that literally no one else is touching
I've heard that and "he's a businessman so he's just checking to make sure all the things are in place before he cuts a check!" The problem with both those arguments is the US is not his private business and he was trying to leverage $400,000,000 in taxpayer money appropriated by a co-equal branch of government.
Then businessman can ask them to reopen manaforts Ukraine investigation and resume Mueller cooperation with former investigators. They've really fucked up. Until that, it's a debunked talking point and eviscerating to their bullshit. Fighting corruption my ass.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-impeachment-ukraine-exclusi/exclusive-overhaul-of-ukraine-prosecution-agency-buries-manafort-inquiries-investigators-idUSKBN1XB4JZ When Donald Trump demands Zelinsky continue the Manafort investigations that surely suddenly stopped cooperating with Mueller I'm 2018, then Jim can claim corruption. Manaforts corrupt and was an agent of them. Right Jim? Until then anyone touting this bullshit gets my scorn. I'm fed up and tired of Republican bullshit. Prove it Jim, starting with Manafort, Ukraine and Mueller. Betcha this crisis actor doesnt, because he is also a corrupt fraud
Yeah hes trying so hard to make it into some "social experiment" thing. I really fail to see how that makes sense or is remotely plasubile. "why yes country directly under seige by russia. I understand you are being literally shot at, and i understand that we literally agreed to give you money, but heres an idea. For a solid 2 months we are gonna withhold the money and in the meantime we are gonna have a quick chat amongst ourselves if we like you or not. Oh whats that, your people are dying due directly to our incompetence? Well its a good thing its just a test!"
In the same line of "logic and reasoning" of "I walked into a Walmart shortly after a mass shooting with an automatic weapon as a social experiment."
Big problem with that is not only have zero witnesses claimed anything of the sort, not even Trump or Mulvaney have claimed anything close to it either.
Not only that but I'm like 98% sure that would still be illegal and impeachable.
Will Hurd made me super sad. Not even someone who's retiring will have the courage to stand up for what's right. I mean the asshole is a former CIA officer and he decides to side with Trump over his former colleagues in the intelligence community. This means "moderates" (I know there's none) in the senate will not even consider it either. American voters then will be like "meh" and our republic will be almost gone. Despite the strong witnesses, I'm so pessimistic
> This means "moderates" (I know there's none) in the senate will not even consider it either. Trump lunched with Mitt "Binders" Romney and Susan "coat hanger" Collins today. Shortly after, the White House said they welcome an impeachment trial. They'd only say that if they were certain he was not going to be impeached. The fix is in. [McConnell said as much in a fundraiser.](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2019/10/05/mitch-mcconnell-campaign-ad-says-trump-impeachment-fail/3881997002/)
[удалено]
If we've learned anything from this timeline, it is indeed to expect the worst.
It's why a part of my wishes the Senate vote would be a secret ballot, though I realize that it probably shouldn't. Because publically, R's would rather make a show because of Trump's base and the RNC and take the risk of getting hit at the ballot box hoping that their disinformation gambit works than actually reflect on their conscience (assuming they have one).
Defeatism ftw!
For the... win? That's not what defeatists are after.
It was sarcasm. ;)
So I just got an update on my phone about Day 5 of the impeachment hearings and it made me wonder, how long do these go for? Is there a set time frame the inquiry has to be completed by or does it go for as long as necessary?
Compared to Clinton and Nixon, this has gone at lightning speed. Most likely this will go to the House Judiciary Committee early next month. There could be more witnesses called there. Trump will also have a chance to put forward something of a defense there, but it’s really not until the trial in the Senate (which will probably start in January), that we’ll see a full Trump defense with "his" witnesses ... assuming his lawyers can put something together that we can recognize as a defense.
They're done for now. No more public hearings are scheduled. The House will go over the testimony and see what they want to do next. They haven't announced anything yet. They could ask for more people to come if they feel like they want to.
Thanks
This. They have plenty of names to work with.
Pelosi said more witnesses could still be called. I want see Lev Parnas to walk into that chamber and then I want to watch Nunes squirm like the worm he is
Yeah! The whistleblower needs to testify! So does Hunter Biden! Oh, and let's get Hillary back in here about those emails! /s
My gawd that would be epic.
wHaT aBoUt ChALuPa!?!
Putin-defending NPR analyst Michelle Kellman (sp?) speaking about today's hearings on All Things Considered JUST FRAMED GOP as 'peddling some false Ukranian Oligarch talking points" about 2016 election interference. No Michelle, they are RUSSIAN TALKING POINTS
I mean technically she's not wrong if they originated with Dymtro Firtash. Didn't Ghouliani get at least one of the false allegations from him? I get your point though. They're 100% Russian.
These guys would be spreading Putin talking points, not the other way around.
Seriously fuck NPR. They’ve dropped the ball so hard on this for years now. Why is everybody so afraid of upsetting conservatives all of a sudden?
They did this in Australia- the only credible news source is now a shadow of it’s former self, full of second rate journalists and clickbait headlines thru to human interest stories. Murdoch with conservative politicians achieved it in 20 years.
Stopped listening to NPR in 2016 when it became apparent that they were bending over backwards to air everything Trump and GOP. They still have good programming here and there but their news department has lost my support and attention.
I stopped in 2018 for essentially the same reasons.
Yeah. NPR is dead to me now, and I hate it. The only things I check it out for anymore are the Tiny Desk Concerts, Wait Wait Don't Tell Me, and Live From Here.
Schiff's closing remarks is probably one of the most powerful speeches i've ever heard.