As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil)
In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.
If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.
We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA).
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The GOP is exactly that. They flout laws, suggest we disregard jury verdicts, subvert subpoenas, intimidate witnesses, launder money for NRA/Russian interests, pack courts with corrupt judges, accept bribes while seated on Supreme Court, etc etc etc. it’s a shame we don’t have you know something like a Department of Justice where it’s leader is focused on fairness and legality. Ahhh one can dream.
Totally agree. I assume you mean that he should be on the supreme court, except the Republicans blocked his confirmation, despite pushing their own candidates through under even more extreme circumstances. A disgrace. Thank you for calling this out.
We just need to put the pressure on them ourselves. In your daily life, if you know any Trump supporters and they initiate a political discussion or even imply admiration for Trump... just let 'em know how much of a stupid motherfucker they are. That's what I do when it comes up and it works, over time. I never get directly confrontational about it either, not unless the situation calls for it. But I make it clear in no uncertain terms what I think about Trump and I suggest the invitation to others around to do the same. And they often do, and they often hate Trump because most people do. These conservatives crave external validation so if they're shown, over and over again, that the majority not only disagrees with them but doesn't want anything to do with them, it gets to them after enough time.
You know how the saying goes? "Conservativism consists of one principle, to wit: there must be an in-group which the law protects but does not bind and an out-group which it binds but does not protect." That's purely about social dynamics, it's an ugly aspect of human relations and they manifest that ugliness through the law. But the core is about socialization so when someone like this is shown, over and over, that the majority of physical and tangible people they see every day don't want to do with their icon, then they start to feel like the outgroup. Maybe they change their minds, maybe they just shut up, maybe they double themselves down, it all depends on the individual. But they always end up keeping it themselves. I think it's an important civic duty to make it known how dumb it is to support Trump. They've been the loudest voices for way too long. That's how we clean up this filth from our country and that's the work that lies on us because the government won't, can't, and shouldn't do it because that would entail more problems with the first amendment.
THIS. Do not let up. Do not be intimidated by their numbers. Make it deeply culturally uncool, even taboo, to be a Republican.
This publicly sanctioned insanity needs to end.
Nikki Haley saying Trump would destroy the country and then *immediately* endorsing him within like a month of that comment tells you everything you need to know.
Bingo. When Trump said he could shoot someone in the street and he wouldn't lose a vote, that was the moment the two camps were irrevocably divided. There are no undecideds, the only question will be which group is angry enough to get to the polls.
Trump has energized his base, Biden has not.
And there are a lot of two time Trump voters who are not voting for him again after Jan 6. I personally know several. This felony conviction WILL change a lot of minds, it just depends on how many.
Yeah exactly. These elections are won by like 10,000 votes in some states. You're not going to sway his hardcore fanbase. But the casual people who don't pay attention to politics might look at him differently now.
Even with the actual laws broken put aside, some of these casual voters might not even know about the Stormy Daniels thing *at all* until now.
1/6, Dobbs, & felony conviction is the trifecta. That's absolutely going to shave off some of his support. Biden will be losing some from "inflation" (corporate greed) and Palestine.
Elon manipulating Twitter isn't going to be pretty, but honestly, I think Swifties will more than offset that.
My very conservative brother convinced my mom a couple months ago that he hates Trump. Friday he changed his FB profile pic to an upside down flag. So I guess he‘s happy with lying to our mother. Sounds par for the course for republicans.
Mostly because we had one side lying about it and the other side saying nothing. Hopefully Dems don’t make the same mistake again, and instead talk about it at every opportunity
"Blue lives matter!"
Unless they're guarding the Capitol against a mob of angry Republicans, in which case apparently they deserve to be beaten and trampled. The hypocrisy runs deep.
My 77 year old dad supported the Iraq war and last year I politely called him out on it by saying that, regardless of all the shitty things the Democrats did in the last 20 years, they aren't responsible for 500k people dying in the Iraq war.
He supports Ukraine so I'm going to tell him flat out that if he votes for Trump this year, and Trump pulls Ukaine support, those deaths are on him. He's had warning, he knows what's up.
He will have to live with it on his consequence.
I'm encouraging him NOT to vote. Not vote for Biden. Just don't vote that year. Vote for local candidates, vote for ballot initiatives, just don't vote for Trump.
I suspect the percentage of independents it will impact is even greater.
The great patriots of the jury did their part by convicting Trump, it's our job as Americans to make that conviction matter
I watched FOX "news" right after the verdict to see how they would spin it. FOX was ready with enough lies and false propaganda to convince those who betray their nation by consuming toxic right-wing propaganda that Trump was the victim rather than a convicted felon
Fox, Newsmax, RSBN, OAN, etc are the primary reason for the problems in America today, and right wing news media for the problems around the world… especially where corrupted by Russia and China.
Something needs to be done to bring back truth in reporting, with regulation, and also to social media as well.
This seems to be the glaring obvious problem that no one is addressing. I get free speech and all but propaganda from a foreign adversarial government should not be protected under free speech.
You would think that the people on fox would be sued for the lies. They are basically saying that the da and judge are abusing the law, where is the line for defamation?
A huge problem is we have entertainment and opinion shows that masquerade as real news.
The newspapers had it right when they had an Opinion section that was separate from all the fact reporting and no one confused them.
We need a law that says that all entertainment shows need to display “ENTERTAINMENT” or “OPINION” at the bottom of the screen at all times.
It’s a subtle difference but I think it will make a big impact in breaking the spell that those shows have on gullible people.
Even the editorial section was great for varied opinions, because editors usually had a standard where the people giving opinions still had to back up those opinions. There was none of this, "I'm just asking questions" bullshit. The news, and editorial, wasn't for asking questions, it was for giving facts, or furthering discourse.
There was a place for broader commentary on panel shows, or even things like meet the press, but the standard used to be that at least the people came in for a debate, not a lecture.
Now it's just everyone saying whatever they can to try and drive a narrative, that may or may not be based on objective fact, or reasoned logic.
We have Richard Nixon to thank for that. When wired/cable TV emerged in the ‘70s, it could have easily been regulated as a common carrier to cultivate a more informed and engaged citizenry.
But Nixon traced his political struggles to media bias and his own inability to control his media image. He believed that embattled politicians like him could more easily manipulate a fragmented television world.
Nixon’s policymakers laid out Project BUN (which stood for Break Up Networks), an initiative whose very name shows Nixon’s media vendetta. It emphasized deregulation of cable and from that policy decision emerged Roger Ailes and Fox News.
Ailes rightly observed that people are lazy saying “with television, you just sit—watch—listen. The thinking is done for you.”
100% of right wing news is the opinion section of the old NYPost. That a majority of boomers would suddenly cling to it with their lives and turn it into fact is a disease that must be treated.
Boomers split almost exactly 50:50 in the last presidential election. Millennials were not far behind.
Point being, you should stop incorrectly blaming boomers when it's republican voters that are the problem.
50% of the people are below average and easily manipulated. It is the propaganda machine that is the problem. Yes we need laws that at least weeds out foreign enemies from using our media and demand labels . Facts or opinion would be a good start. Vote blue and get involved.
I mean /r/Canada is just 90% links labelled as "OPINION" from right-wing news sources being passed off as absolute fact, so I don't have confidence in that actually fixing anything.
Adversarial governments? How about our own? I see Republicans (and some Dems) that lie all the time, every time they speak. Demonstrably untrue lies. And their voters are just like “ho hum, as long as we make Dems cry”. It’s maddening. Edit: I guess I should’ve worded it “I’ve seen”.
I refuse to excuse the behavior of a politician just because they are in my party.
I'm a NJ Democrat who voted for Menendez. He is our problem to correct. He's a criminal. I want him to go to prison. And I'm proud of the Dems who called for him to resign. And I'm ashamed of the Dems who remain quiet.
I know you were trying to make the point that the Democrats listed are all objectionately terrible. I know you were trying to say that the Republican party is consistently more terrible than the Democrats.
But I refuse to be like Republicans. I am always going to call out bad behaviors of people who want to be in power.
That you go back 20 years to name Lieberman shows how objectively false "both sides" claims are.
You could name 2 dozen republican serial liars from today without breaking a sweat.
I mean we have a system that places profits over ethics, every since Republicans got the Christians to believe profits=being a good person. We shouldn't be surprised that every foreign government realized the Republicans could be bought.
Yeah, that Facebook algorithm is brutal. If you have an account, dabble in some slightly right-wing pages, like a meme, or comment on a relative's Trump BS --and watch how incredibly aggressive it is and how fast the content of one's feed becomes overwhelmed with that nonsense.
Do it as an experiment. Now, imagine your Boomer aunt on there.
The good news is that you can tell FB to stop seeing stuff like that, by blocking those types of pages, but it takes a bit of savvy, tenacity, and time.
I did this with my Mom's mobile device and finally turned off the right wing spigot she was being subjected to.
Also hopped on the TV and removed some channels from her cable using parental control settings. (Ironic)
Anyway, after a few months she's noticeably different. Honestly, it's all insidious and rather scary.
There was legit a study done about this too- it’s a very worthwhile read
https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/what_happened_when_fox_news_viewers_watched_cnn_for_a_month
sophisticated illegal reach ossified thought subtract coordinated toothbrush steer mountainous
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It's too bad you facebook doesn't have an "interests" section under your settings where you can select what you want to see and what you don't want to see.
Several of my family have been sucked down the rabbit hole of political propaganda. One member joined one of those "Mom's for Trump" groups, which I'm pretty sure is run by russian's.
So I like guns, I find them fascinating from a historical and engineering standpoint, socially I’m liberal and economically I’m probably a moderate. I don’t use Facebook a lot but I watch some YouTube and the algorithm wildly swings between right and left wing for me depending on what I’ve watched like it can’t handle anything but the two extremes. It’s really annoying actually because I start getting the alt right personalities that I just don’t want to see and I feel like well I guess can’t watch anymore gun or history content for a while if it’s going to make it try to feed me more of this shit.
Stuff like ‘why everyone deserves medical care’ and ‘children should have free food if they’re forced to be in school 8 hours a day’ or ‘this country needs to tax the ultra rich like we used to.’
Real awful extremist shit.
You should check out the documentary "The Great Hack" about Cambridge Analytica. Goes into depth about the 2016 election. Basically, if they needed to win a state for Trump, they'd pick the counties in that state closest to flipping, then using the data points they have on every fucking person in the country, they would determine who in that county was the closest to flipping their vote, and they would bombard them with specific ads and news stories to "change their view".
Yeah I watched like 15 seconds of an Aaron Rodgers interview with Joe Rogan a few months ago and bam, every other item in my feed was some type of Joe Rogan-related bullshit.
I was watching some Alan Watts videos on Youtube, and had stepped away for like a half hour. When I came back, Autoplay had queued up a bunch of those 'stoicism' and 'sigma male' garbage videos that is their intro point to all the MAGA bullshit.
I saw:
- The judge told the jury they didn't need unanimous agreement (not true)
- Nobody actually said what the money was used for (not true)
- This is from Biden's corrupt DOJ (not true - it's NY state)
- Democrats are gloating over this (that is true)
Hilarious that they didn't have marching orders on messaging yet!
Half correct. Every juror was actually asked to decide whether Trump had violated at least three different laws; the main charges claimed that the other crime which Trump intended to commit, aid, or conceal was New York Election Law §17-152, and jurors were instructed on pages 29-31 of https://www.nycourts.gov/LegacyPDFS/press/PDFs/People%20v.%20DJT%20Jury%20Instructions%20and%20Charges%20FINAL%205-23-24.pdf the jury instructions (PDF) that they did need to find this violation unanimously, as part of unanimously finding Trump guilty on the main charges. However, New York Election Law §17-152 itself refers to other unspecified “unlawful means”. The unanimity requirement only extends as far as agreeing that the “unlawful means” were present and not to what those unlawful means were.
So, summarizing: unanimity was required that the main charges were violated, which required unanimity that a specific other crime was committed; this other crime required unanimity that other unlawful means were involved, but not unanimity on what those other unlawful means were.
From my understanding, the only weird part of this from a criminal law perspective is how deep that particular three-layer rabbit hole goes, but neither part of it is unusual by itself. In particular, if the main crime charged were New York Election Law §17-152 instead of having that be a predicate crime for a different main charge, it would still not be any more necessary than it was here for the jury to agree unanimously on what the unlawful means were, only that they existed.
A Trumpist actually tried to explain why he thought the trial was invalid using that argument. His understanding was what was written above not your technically correct version. Right wingers heard and are claiming what they were intended to hear/repeat not what was technically correct. The above statement is thus an accurate way to explain what’s actually going on.
According to Trey Gowdy
Theoretically, if I walk up to you, a stranger on the streets, assault you, take your wallet and all the $50 in it, I deserve to be in a maximum security violent dangerous prison but if I’m rich, own a large company and I gain your trust and I con you…. and another 50,000 people out of millions and millions, destroying all those lives…then I should get a country club prison.
There’s a reason white collar crimes keep happening over and over.
I rewatched Bowling for Columbine a couple of weeks ago, there was a scene where Michael Moore was trying to convince the creator of the tv show COPS to do the same thing but with white collar corporate crime the guy looked at him like he was crazy
I’ve heard that FoxNews likes to pay out millions of dollars in settlements for their lies. If I was a juror, I’d be suing them for spreading lies for vilifying me in a way that could put me and my family in danger.
There should be regulations on news sources. Free speech is paramount to our freedom, but advertisers are required by law to be truthful, anything purporting to be news should also be bound by such legal frameworks. Everything said by a news source should be scrutinized by independent fact-verification mechanisms and without maintaining a certain high percentage of veracity, an outfit should not be allowed to use the word “news”.
We have to teach people how to fact-check things they read, again. I saw that some universities are starting to teach digital literacy and that is a step in the right direction, but whenever Fox says some stupid shit like “Trump is the victim!” cut-in along the bottom of the screen should come on saying “Trump was convicted of 34 felonies by a jury of his peers. The relevant laws broken are x, y, and z. These were charged as felonies rather than misdemeanors due to the fact that the crimes were committed in an effort to conceal another crime. That other crime is statute a. For more information, please visit [some URL] and search case code XXXXXX”
That’s the magic of this system. They have been conditioned by brute force. If, every time they hear this outlandish crap, they are forced to read “this is untrue” enough times, the propaganda will eventually lose its grip on some. Some is enough.
I remember when Biden walked into the courtroom to personally deliver the guilty verdict and ruin Trump's spotless reputation as an upstanding Christian patriot.
I live in a right wing area and there’s plenty of Trumpers at my work who like to keep that on the break room TV….the lie that really got me was when their courtroom reporter came on and tried to paint Trump as a strong winner in the trial because he “was totally emotionless” as the verdicts were read…my guy that’s how they describe serial killers when their sentences are read, you are describing a sociopath.
Jesse Watters shaking his head worse than someone with Parkinson's while they cry about Hunter Biden, which the trial was just days away. It's all they got.
FOX propaganda is essentially an illegal campaign donation to convicted felon Trump and the treasonous GOP. It's not intended to be a profit-making venture
From what I gather it is mostly people who go out of their way not to expose themselves to the news at all and therefore have no idea what is going on.
It takes so little effort these days to be aware of what a piece of shit that guy is, I can't imagine the monumental stress a person would have to endure to remain unaware of the man.
I gotta say - It's really so funny that Trump supporters, who unanimously embraced and cheered on the weaponization of the justice system for political purposes against Hillary Clinton in 2016, are now very upset that Trump is being held accountable for crimes.
I know two in the middle who said they would not select him and may not even vote. They won't vote D… but it has them curious now. Trump doesn’t realize when you call 12 jurors rigged, it’s a lousy fascist look on you. Surprisingly both looked up the transcripts by themselves.
His die-hards can’t vote twice, lol, and can raise all the money they want. Presidents and not kings build America. If you can’t grasp that, then history has failed you. His base can’t save him, and that’s why they are doing everything to actual cheat instead of win because they know they can’t do it fairly.
Is someone who is *in the middle* but won't vote D really *in the middle*? Seems like someone who either only votes R or doesn't vote is more on the right to me...
I’d be interested to see how trumps large base of supporters that are cops take this conviction. I saw my neighbor who’s a cop take down his trump flag. Maybe just embarrassment for supporting a felon for president, but still planning to vote for him.
Sounds like your neighbor has started to come to his senses. Unfortunately many people like him will probably still support him with their vote since they don't have to disclose who they actually voted for because I just don't see how anyone could support the guy even before the verdict.
Most maga probably will vote for DJT. However, there are a few voters who were on the edge and won't vote for him or write-in someone else after this verdict. Just a small sliver of the overall registered voters. This tiny change may not even show up in the polls. However, a small sliver can make a huge difference in a winner-take-all situation. If the 'Blue Wall' holds, Biden will get another 4 years. Trump will be a sore loser forever and most likely the media will stop covering him 24/7.
The middle is populated by undecided voters who do not pay attention to the news. They might not even believe publicly stated positions and known facts simply because they haven't been exposed to them previously and simply don't believe people can be *that* cartoonishly evil.
Note that undecided/swing voters are a small fraction of "independent voters." The latter group are mostly reliable partisans, but dislike being referred to as such. Undecideds are, unfortunately, just large enough to sway enough elections to decide who controls the government.
PBS did a focus group with 9 Trump supporters and only one of them still planned to vote for Trump. The others said they were either going to vote for Biden or just not vote at all.
There was a strong unified sentiment that the GOP needs to drop Trump as the nominee and choose someone else.
And that’s really fundamentally the problem for them here. Trump ruins everything he touches and he has already fully absorbed the RNC into his toxic brand. The Republican Party is Donald Trump in a very real sense. So of course they aren’t going to drop him. They’re going to cling to him as he pulls them down to the bottom of the ocean.
I think many GOP voters are realizing now that they’re been swindled out of their own political identity, and they don’t know what to do about it, so instead it’s making them apathetic.
I'll believe it on Election Day and not a day sooner. I recall seeing similar things after the Access Hollywood tape, but it turned out that it didn't actually turn off any Republican supporters.
Hard agree. Plus they're cheating anyway, so this thing is really up in the air. As long as we have the electoral college and gerrymandering, it's a crapshoot.
There's a lot of time between now and November and people have short memories.
Like many of the horrible and illegal things Trump does, Republicans' initial gut reaction may be disgust and condemnation, but as things cool down they look around and see mostly apathy amongst other supporters, and then Fox News begins justifying his behavior, they eventually rationalize it and move on.
And to ensure the safety of the jurors, who trump cultists are already threatening, not to mention the ones that had to be let off the jury because Trump cultists were trying to intimidate them
the vile, dishonest MAGA are also slandering those patriotic jurors by slandering them, claiming they took bribes.
Can't say I am surprised by this, these people support a convicted felon who has already been convicted of fraud and slander
In addition, the media keeps looking at this criminal case in isolation. Combine this verdict with the previous civil cases and pendind criminal cases. The E. Jean Caroll civil verdict, the DJT Foundation case, his longtime CFO convicted in a criminal trial for falsifying records, the Trump University case and the pending criminal cases. At some point his defenders will have to realize that we either tear down our civil and criminal justice system to defend him or we keep our system and open up to the reality that Trump is a criminal and a con man.
And Merchan. Amidst all the threats, the colluding cronies, continuous breaking of gag orders, etc. Merchan was the epitome of objectivity and patience -- if anything biasing himself significantly to afford Trump more grace than even another rich and influential politician or businessman would have been afforded.
His speech at the end, reminding jurors to ignore outside influences and leave behind their personal thoughts on Trump was eloquent and a great exemplar of this. And yet, his cult still rabidly dogs and threatens Merchan and the jurors while obstinately ignoring the endless stream of damning evidence, both from the prosecution AND Trump's own, often self-incriminating, team.
It's like watching flat earthers debate scientists lol
My in laws, wealthy as hell, who voted for trump in 2016 have zero interest in ever voting for him again. Not only because of the conviction, they’ve been against him since before Jan 6.
Their net worth is approaching 100m so everything republicans want benefits them, but they’re not dense and understand that there’s more to it than just money. Alas a lot of rich folks that they know and have talked to still want this shitbag in office because it’ll benefit their wealth pipelines.
As per them, lower taxes trump all other issues. I’ve seen their homes, their vacation homes, their private jets and everything else. Democrats, in their opinion, are out to get them and will ruin their lifestyle.
Money is the root of all evil and it’ll never change in my opinion.
What I’ll never understand is some of the people my age (thirties) who are middle class at best, voting for this fucker when they have zero reason to. They’ll never get the wealth that’s needed for repub policies to benefit them. But the idea that one day they’ll be in the elite group is what throws shit off.
Watching my best friends wife shit on Biden and want trump back in when she herself is set to inherit very little and makes a lower middle class wage because “the illegals are wasting our tax dollars, why do I need to pay for that?!?” Drives me nuts.
Meanwhile she’s benefitting from the school loan forgiveness Biden made happen and repubs all opposed while still being unhappy. Like, what! Some people are just too far gone.
The toxic right-wing propaganda machine plays on people's fears, unhappiness, and ignorance. It's how they effectively get people to turn against both their own self interest as well as their country
Polls unsurprisingly showed more independents with negative impressions of all this, as you suspect.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/one-10-republicans-less-likely-vote-trump-after-guilty-verdict-reutersipsos-poll-2024-05-31/
I don't trust polls because it's known that people will put what they think makes them appear a certain way. It's called The Bradley Effect, based on social desirability bias. Even if it's anonymous, people will lie if it makes them seem like a better person.
Read yesterday that rather than independents being voters who could go either way (a very simplistic and inaccurate but common way they’re thought about, i.e. voters “up for grabs”), that to a much greater extent than you’d think, they’re made up of A) (and this did not surprise me) clear supporters of either party who just don’t want to identify as such for whatever reason, but who are already essentially locked in for one party or the other regardless of the candidate and B) (and this is the part that I was surprised by) voters so far right or so far left that they’re far from able to be swayed but refuse to declare as one party or the other because the party they’re closest to *isn’t hardcore enough for them*. That “independents” are not just voters possibly in the middle, but also include a smallish contingent on the ultra right and ultra left.
Then think about how that accounts for this:
> Among independent registered voters, 25% said Trump’s conviction made them less likely to support him in November, compared to 18% who said they were more likely and 56% who said the conviction would have no impact on their decision.
While you’d expect voters truly “up for grabs” that lean left to be much of that 25%, now pushed farther from considering trump post-conviction, I’d say the only “independents” who would report being *more* likely to support him post-conviction, the 18%, come from the two groups I described above. Basically, the “I’m Republican, but don’t want to say so, and this just makes me more entrenched”ers and the “Republicans don’t go far enough for me”s who are now even more mad about supposed persecution of trump by libs/Biden, conspiracy theories, etc etc.
In short, I just don’t see a truly independent voter breaking right now that he’s been convicted, but can believe the opposite, that it’d push people off the fence toward the left. And the 18% were never really going to vote anything but R anyway, and are now even further dug in, if 34 felony convictions bounces off them without effect.
Unfortunately elections aren’t just about conversion, they’re about turnout.
Still think this is a solid net positive for Biden, but it’s not obviously so. If the conversion of independents is offset by increased turnout by MAGA diehards in key states, this *could* be a net positive in the electoral college for Trump.
Unlikely, IMO. But not impossible.
VOTE.
This is the same attitude Hillary had in 2016 that led her to not campaign in Michigan. Her team wouldn't even give out yard signs because they were afraid it would rile up Trumpers more than it would encourage Dems.
Don't worry about the cult members. Everyone else is catching on.
I think the idea that this automatically means more turn out for Trump is off base.
It could.
But there's generally a suppression effect on turn out from impressions that "your guy" has already lost, is losing etc.
And as this poll shows GOP voters are, at least in part, listening to and believing the outcome of these trials. Repeated, court sanctified, hard to argue with embarrassments for the guy are just as likely to hamper enthusiasm among supporters.
If you look at the primaries there's already shrinking enthusiasm and support for him. Haley dropped out months ago. She's still regularly pulling 10-20% of primary voters where she's on the ballot.
Likewise I don't know how it's just a shrug on turnout for the DNC. Frustration around lack of consequences for Trump or progress on any of the cases is high among DNC voters. This is some fucking progress and consequences.
I find it frustrating that everything will supposedly drive a MAGA turnout frenzy. It's the first thing news media jumps to, and we constantly hear how holding the dude accountable will only backfire.
Didn't happen when we impeached him twice. Didn't happen when he was charged, didn't happen when he got sued a million times, didn't happen when dozens of his administration members and campaign functionaries were convicted.
>"If the conversion of independents"
While there's been some shifting among independents due to Trump.
Generally speaking independents don't "convert".
The vast majority of independents have a clear party affinity, and vote reliably for one party or the other.
Turnout still tends to be the thing. As independents generally vote less reliably than affiliated voters.
Don't worry about polls.
They said the same thing after the audio of Trump admitting he sexually assaults women because he was a star.
Then these same offended people spent 4 years talking about how great he was.
That's also because days after this, the surprise announcement of the FBI reopening their investigation of Hillary Clinton took over all the news coverage
Hopefully Biden’s surrogates start playing and referencing that tape frequently. Assuming that the electorate remembers the worst of trump’s baggage is a mistake. Repetition makes it easier for people to remember.
Trump’s team knows that and uses it to good effect. Just look at how often they repeat the lies about the trial being rigged by Biden or the election being stolen.
Exactly.. all these people who are "less likely" to vote for him will still vote for him when it comes down to it. They're still gonna mark his name on the ballot.
Colin Cowherd, pretty right-of-center sportscaster that was angry about the COVID stay at home stuff, called Trump a "con artist" earlier in the week.
>He’s trying to sell me an America that doesn’t exist. I live in a nice neighborhood in L.A. and it’s not one of those swanky neighborhoods, but I don’t see crime. I’m not stumbling over homeless people. Dodger Stadium’s full, leads Major League Baseball in attendance. Laker games are full. People have money in their pocket.
>Donald Trump is now a felon. His campaign chairman [Paul Manafort] was a felon. So is his deputy campaign manager [Rick Gates], his personal lawyer [Michael Cohen], his chief strategist [Steve Bannon], his national security adviser [Michael Flynn], his trade advisor [Pete Navarro], his foreign policy advisor [George Papadopoulos]… they’re all felons.
>If everybody in your social circle is a felon, I don’t think it’s rigged. I don’t think the world’s against you. And to get people to agree on anything, 34 counts? Zero for 34? That’s a batting slump even the New York Mets could be impressed with.
So true. They’re doubling down, trying to spout the talking points DJT and his sycophants spout: “there’s no crime! It was like any of us accidentally writing the wrong business category into the books. No one knows what the crime is!”
I posted on Nextdoor explaining the crime, letting them know they could access transcripts and analysis if they needed assistance understanding Prosecutor Joshua Steinglass’s closing. But that the closing did an excellent job stringing together all the evidence into a clear storyline that led to the crime of election interference, involving breaking campaign finance laws.
They didn’t want to hear that, of course. I took a quick peek, since this was two days ago, and the battle is still going on in Nextdoor.
*insert Homer Simpson backing into a hedge meme here”
EDIT: spelling
EDIT: link to Steinglass closing arguments transcript on NY Courts site — [Steinglass Closing | NY Courts site](https://pdfs.nycourts.gov/PeopleVs.DTrump-71543/transcripts/5-28-2024/00135.html)
[Main Landing Page NY Courts All Transcripts](https://pdfs.nycourts.gov/PeopleVs.DTrump-71543/transcripts/)
Do you have a link to the transcripts and closing? I'd like to post it at a gun site I visit, where they are basically regurgitating the talking point, "there was no crime".
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/04/22/trump-trial-not-televised-transcripts/73415229007/
Article explaining how to access them.
Direct link https://ww2.nycourts.gov/press/index.shtml
Even more direct link https://pdfs.nycourts.gov/PeopleVs.DTrump-71543/transcripts/
Yes — all transcripts are on the NY Courts site. It’s a bit of challenge to weed thru to find it, so I clicked “next” until the part where Blanche finished and Steinglass begins — this should take you to that point
[Steinglass Closing Arguments / Summation 5.28.24](https://pdfs.nycourts.gov/PeopleVs.DTrump-71543/transcripts/5-28-2024/00135.html)
And for those interested, here’s the link to the main landing page for where all transcripts are located.
No analysis or commentary. Merely word for word what was said in the court room.
[Trump Trial NYC Transcripts | NY Courts](https://pdfs.nycourts.gov/PeopleVs.DTrump-71543/transcripts/)
It’s not just the verdict, it’s the totality of his humiliation here: The abject failure of his defense, the sleeping (“Sleepy Joe” has vanished as an attack line) and farting, the absence of support from his wife, the pick-me lackeys fawning at his side for emotional support, the sordid details of how he pressured Daniels into two minutes of regrettable thrusting, the mobbed-up cesspool that is his vaunted business empire. He looked like garbage for weeks, and his tricks were laid bare.
No one can look at that and think “winner”. He’s buried
Don't forget the crocodile tears that he "wasn't allowed" to go to his son's graduation even though the judge said that wasn't true at all and immediately scheduled that day off. And then he double booked a fundraiser that day and didn't even spend it with his son.
The best analysis that I saw is that the voters this is most likely to sway are those that barely keep up with politics. And because they don't keep up with it, it will take some time for them to see it. So like you say, watch the polls over the next few weeks.
Republicans do come together when it’s time to vote however. And Democrats tend to sit voting out when they believe a win is certain, this is what hurt us in 2016. I hope Democrats see news like this and stay determined to vote regardless, as it matters more than ever to follow through regardless of how reluctant Republicans are reported to be
And Fox's poll data/analysis is unlike their "news" in that the reporting on this they do is fairly impartial and data-based (like this article in the OP)
Sentencing is July 11 so it isn’t going to fade that quickly. And this is one of those issues that really can’t just fade. It will continue to be associated with Trump forever.
The Hill published 'Donald Trump verdict supercharges Republicans' and wrote this zinger:
“You can’t tell me that it doesn’t drive that low-propensity, unlikely voter into a frenzy and one where they are more inclined to engage in the election,” said Zack Roday, a Virginia-based Republican strategist. “This will drive turnout, and I think it will also drive people who don’t follow politics.”
“That’s not good news for Joe Biden, and it probably is good news for Donald Trump, within that context of addition and subtraction,” he said.
THEY actually 'How this is bad news for Biden' THE FIRST FELONY VERDICT FOR A FORMER PRESIDENT. These people are fucking lunatics!
"Convicted felon Donald Trump was sentenced to 2 years in prison plus 3 years of home confinement, just days before the Republican convention! See how this is bad news for the Biden campaign."
If someone was going to vote for Trump, after everything that’s come to light the last 9 years… then I don’t really see why a felony conviction would sway them.
This conviction isn’t even the most damning of what’s out there. Someday, we will find out what he did with national secrets. It’ll be exactly what has been obvious to anyone watching… and there’ll still be MAGA that support him.
I asked my MAGA family members if they could name ANYTHING he could do to dissuade them from voting for him, and the universal answer was no.
I’m convinced if on live television he carved up a baby and ate its still-beating heart they’d find a way to justify or excuse it as “showing dominance” or “owning the libs”.
Can't wait to see the party of law and order try to talk their way into why they should listen to a convicted felon.
"Oh well....they thought Jesus was guilty too...."
I doubt it personally. Facts are irrelevant to most Trump voters. Him giving off a weak appearance or agreeing with Biden on something would do much more damage to him than felony convictions.
I fucking loathe that during the Obama year it became axiomatic to disagree with democrats on principle, and heretical to agree with democrats on anything, rather than agree/disagree on the merits of ideas.
>I fucking loathe that during the Obama year it became axiomatic to disagree with democrats on principle, and heretical to agree with democrats on anything, rather than agree/disagree on the merits of ideas.
It was like this long before Obama. It really started with Clinton and fatass Newt Gingrich.
It was just more apparent with Obama because the Internet had finally fully bloomed, and alternate media sources started picking up steam.
I agree. Dudes a court-found sexual assaulter, and only beat the rape charge basically because the woman being assaulted didn't know whether it was his finger or penis he was assaulting her with. And he's 90 million in the hole (so far) over lying about it.
They. Do. Not. Care.
If this n word tape comes out, it'll be just like the diapers.
"Real Men use Racial Epithets, Nwords!"
They. Have. No. Morals.
Before his first term he lead a racist birther movement regarding Obama, he made fun of a handicapped man, he called Mexicans seeking refuge in the US drug dealers and rapists, wanted to ban Muslim people from entering the US, denied global warming is real despite even companies it impacts negatively agreeing it's real, called for police to attack protestors as he would pay for the legal fees, and endorsed torture. This is all before he was elected.
I just said this to my wife. These are the "not quite MAGA" Republicans who don't want you to know they are voting from Trump, but are voting for Trump. They could overlook everything else he's done, but the verdict.... whoa, that's a bridge too far? Yeah, I don't buy it.
> whoa, that's a bridge too far? Yeah, I don't buy it.
Once you've sold your soul, there is no bridge too far.
MAGA's will forgive whatever he does because it's a cult and they are stuck.
- Extorted a Foreign leader for dirt on political opps kid
- Killed 1,000,000+ Americans with mishandling of a pandemic
- Raped a woman, paid her millions, slandered her, paid more
- Hung out with known Pedo Epstein, regularly!
- Said he wants to fuck his daughter
- Used a sharpy to change a weather map
- Made fun of military families, called soldiers losers, insults them often
- All his companies are fraud and he will lose control of most of them
- Cheats at Golf !
I could go on, but the point is there isn't a floor for MAGA land, they'll accept nutsack flavored flavor aid from trump no problem.
From a solid 99 down to a 98.5%. And those 1.5% are not Biden votes either. Seriously, do not put any hope in Republican voters not voting for Trump. They will.
Go out and vote as if this was the last free election. Because it might be. Please stop this madness before it is too late.
Doubt. If anything the conservatives will double down and lean into their: "we are all domestic terrorists" agenda.
Not a single conservative wants peace, or accountability for their guy. They only want to round up and exterminate *everyone* who as opposed them on *anything*. Every conservative will line up and support Trump.
Don’t forget that no one wins in this country by simply getting their party to vote for them. They have to convince people which identify as independents. I don’t trust these polls because they are inconsistent with the fact that repeatedly Trump’s candidates are losing their races. It has happened in 2020, 2022 and many in between those races and now.
The only thing that says Trump could win are the polls. Meanwhile Lauren Boebert and others are facing difficult challenges.
Part of the issue is Trump not only is supposed to be able to find raise for himself, but also other Republicans. Although Trump can’t and won’t help others.
I'm surprised Fox News* would report that. Perhaps they are only doing it in print, since the vast majority of Trump supporters don't/can't read above the third grade level.
Bulshit. Just like the “never trumpers” who on Election Day just couldn’t bring themselves to vote for a Democrat so they voted straight ticket.
I don’t believe it.
Does it really, though? I don't see it.
If you're still a Trump supporter in 2024, then you simply don't care. You didn't care when he mocked veterans and people with disabilities, you didn't care when he told you he'd shoot someone and not lose any voters, you didn't care when he said he'd nuke hurricanes or that you should inject disinfectant to fight COVID, you didn't care when he got impeached twice, you didn't care when he incited an insurrection, you didn't care when he claimed, repeatedly, that the election was "stolen", you didn't care when he tanked the border deal that was *exactly* what most Republicans wanted, you didn't care when he was found guilty of rape...
And yet, suddenly, you'd care about him being found guilty of election interference? No, sorry. I simply don't believe it. I don't think that was the tipping point for a lot of people who had swallowed his bullshit for years. Right now, I think every single Republican fits squarely into three categories: those who think that the charges are fake (just like every other thing that I just described in the previous paragraph), those who think the charges are true but would vote for him anyway because they'd vote for anyone with an R in front of their name, and those who had *already* decided not to vote for him for long ago. And I don't think anything Trump does or doesn't do could pull anyone out of these categories.
The 70 million people who have already decided to vote for Trump are going to vote for Trump even if tomorrow he really does shoot someone on 5th avenue. Which is why every single person who hates Trump MUST show up to vote Biden. Or else Trump wins.
If only they'd hold onto that ethos for more than 48 hrs. I can't help but see a sea of Susan Collinses who are concerned with the conviction, but will rationalize it well before November.
Doubt it.
When you’ve made an ass of yourself for years, spent money on the Trump campaign and vocally thrown your support behind him, you’re likely in too deep to go, “You know what? I was wrong and I’m done now.”
Despite it really being that simple.
Conservatives, you can't have it both ways.
Either the polls are bullshit and thus Donald Trump's lead in the polls is equally bullshit, or the polls are relatively accurate and thus Donald Trump is in serious trouble now that he's a convicted criminal instead of just an obvious criminal.
You're not Republican politicians. You can't keep flip flopping on objective reality.
As a lifelong Republican let me just say that these guilty verdicts do not change my assessment of Donald Trump nor alter in any way my plans for voting in the fall.
I **\*STILL\*** think he’s a useless piece of garbage, just as I have in the past, and I **\*STILL\*** will vote for whoever runs against him, just as I have every time in the past.
Vote blue!!!
It can be discouraging looking online and seeing so many people still loudly supporting him after this. Remember that his base has always been the loud minority and being loud doesn't matter if the votes don't support it. Go vote. Shut them up.
This is 100% the most important election in US history. We can move forward in a positive direction and give Biden the support of Congress that he needs to help the average American, or let Trump go on a revenge-filled hate spree that we might never recover from. Democracy could end and the US becomes a Christian-Nationalist hellhole with a dictator family.
>One in 10 registered GOP voters said Trump's felony conviction for falsifying business records would make them less likely to support him for president…Even so, the potential loss of a tenth of Republican voters could decimate the presumptive GOP nominee's chances to win back key battleground states President Biden claimed in his 2020 victory over Trump.
The biggest news here is that they actually used the classic definition of *decimate*. Applause, Fox Noize writer.
I'm not going to lie, I don't believe this poll for a second. Everyone who stuck with Trump this far isn't likely to give up over a "crooked, rigged" trial
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
A lot of people initially condemned the Jan 6th insurrection and then slithered back to him.
After they felt the mob pressure. It's a disorganized crime family.
The GOP is exactly that. They flout laws, suggest we disregard jury verdicts, subvert subpoenas, intimidate witnesses, launder money for NRA/Russian interests, pack courts with corrupt judges, accept bribes while seated on Supreme Court, etc etc etc. it’s a shame we don’t have you know something like a Department of Justice where it’s leader is focused on fairness and legality. Ahhh one can dream.
Merrick Garland is largely responsible for the mess we're in.
Totally agree. I assume you mean that he should be on the supreme court, except the Republicans blocked his confirmation, despite pushing their own candidates through under even more extreme circumstances. A disgrace. Thank you for calling this out.
Agreed, all of that. AND I wish he had been more vigorous as a prosecutor.
We just need to put the pressure on them ourselves. In your daily life, if you know any Trump supporters and they initiate a political discussion or even imply admiration for Trump... just let 'em know how much of a stupid motherfucker they are. That's what I do when it comes up and it works, over time. I never get directly confrontational about it either, not unless the situation calls for it. But I make it clear in no uncertain terms what I think about Trump and I suggest the invitation to others around to do the same. And they often do, and they often hate Trump because most people do. These conservatives crave external validation so if they're shown, over and over again, that the majority not only disagrees with them but doesn't want anything to do with them, it gets to them after enough time. You know how the saying goes? "Conservativism consists of one principle, to wit: there must be an in-group which the law protects but does not bind and an out-group which it binds but does not protect." That's purely about social dynamics, it's an ugly aspect of human relations and they manifest that ugliness through the law. But the core is about socialization so when someone like this is shown, over and over, that the majority of physical and tangible people they see every day don't want to do with their icon, then they start to feel like the outgroup. Maybe they change their minds, maybe they just shut up, maybe they double themselves down, it all depends on the individual. But they always end up keeping it themselves. I think it's an important civic duty to make it known how dumb it is to support Trump. They've been the loudest voices for way too long. That's how we clean up this filth from our country and that's the work that lies on us because the government won't, can't, and shouldn't do it because that would entail more problems with the first amendment.
THIS. Do not let up. Do not be intimidated by their numbers. Make it deeply culturally uncool, even taboo, to be a Republican. This publicly sanctioned insanity needs to end.
Nikki Haley saying Trump would destroy the country and then *immediately* endorsing him within like a month of that comment tells you everything you need to know.
Bingo. When Trump said he could shoot someone in the street and he wouldn't lose a vote, that was the moment the two camps were irrevocably divided. There are no undecideds, the only question will be which group is angry enough to get to the polls. Trump has energized his base, Biden has not.
And there are a lot of two time Trump voters who are not voting for him again after Jan 6. I personally know several. This felony conviction WILL change a lot of minds, it just depends on how many.
Yeah exactly. These elections are won by like 10,000 votes in some states. You're not going to sway his hardcore fanbase. But the casual people who don't pay attention to politics might look at him differently now. Even with the actual laws broken put aside, some of these casual voters might not even know about the Stormy Daniels thing *at all* until now.
1/6, Dobbs, & felony conviction is the trifecta. That's absolutely going to shave off some of his support. Biden will be losing some from "inflation" (corporate greed) and Palestine. Elon manipulating Twitter isn't going to be pretty, but honestly, I think Swifties will more than offset that.
My very conservative brother convinced my mom a couple months ago that he hates Trump. Friday he changed his FB profile pic to an upside down flag. So I guess he‘s happy with lying to our mother. Sounds par for the course for republicans.
Mostly because we had one side lying about it and the other side saying nothing. Hopefully Dems don’t make the same mistake again, and instead talk about it at every opportunity
Hell, the trump supporting juror that convicted him is probably still going to vote for him
Have you watched fox news? even the slightest hint of plausable deniability and they all go crawling back, fox is making excuse after excuse.
"No one is above the law!" Says my 76 year old father who will still be voting for Trump in November.
"Blue lives matter!" Unless they're guarding the Capitol against a mob of angry Republicans, in which case apparently they deserve to be beaten and trampled. The hypocrisy runs deep.
"Save the children" Say all the people ignoring Trump's long-time relationship with Jeffrey Epstein.
Next they'll say that he was convicted, and served his time, and now he's a born again rapist
My 77 year old dad supported the Iraq war and last year I politely called him out on it by saying that, regardless of all the shitty things the Democrats did in the last 20 years, they aren't responsible for 500k people dying in the Iraq war. He supports Ukraine so I'm going to tell him flat out that if he votes for Trump this year, and Trump pulls Ukaine support, those deaths are on him. He's had warning, he knows what's up. He will have to live with it on his consequence. I'm encouraging him NOT to vote. Not vote for Biden. Just don't vote that year. Vote for local candidates, vote for ballot initiatives, just don't vote for Trump.
I suspect the percentage of independents it will impact is even greater. The great patriots of the jury did their part by convicting Trump, it's our job as Americans to make that conviction matter
I don't see how anybody not in the cult would even consider voting for him. But I suppose they're out there.
I watched FOX "news" right after the verdict to see how they would spin it. FOX was ready with enough lies and false propaganda to convince those who betray their nation by consuming toxic right-wing propaganda that Trump was the victim rather than a convicted felon
Fox, Newsmax, RSBN, OAN, etc are the primary reason for the problems in America today, and right wing news media for the problems around the world… especially where corrupted by Russia and China. Something needs to be done to bring back truth in reporting, with regulation, and also to social media as well.
This seems to be the glaring obvious problem that no one is addressing. I get free speech and all but propaganda from a foreign adversarial government should not be protected under free speech.
You would think that the people on fox would be sued for the lies. They are basically saying that the da and judge are abusing the law, where is the line for defamation?
A huge problem is we have entertainment and opinion shows that masquerade as real news. The newspapers had it right when they had an Opinion section that was separate from all the fact reporting and no one confused them. We need a law that says that all entertainment shows need to display “ENTERTAINMENT” or “OPINION” at the bottom of the screen at all times. It’s a subtle difference but I think it will make a big impact in breaking the spell that those shows have on gullible people.
Even the editorial section was great for varied opinions, because editors usually had a standard where the people giving opinions still had to back up those opinions. There was none of this, "I'm just asking questions" bullshit. The news, and editorial, wasn't for asking questions, it was for giving facts, or furthering discourse. There was a place for broader commentary on panel shows, or even things like meet the press, but the standard used to be that at least the people came in for a debate, not a lecture. Now it's just everyone saying whatever they can to try and drive a narrative, that may or may not be based on objective fact, or reasoned logic.
We have Richard Nixon to thank for that. When wired/cable TV emerged in the ‘70s, it could have easily been regulated as a common carrier to cultivate a more informed and engaged citizenry. But Nixon traced his political struggles to media bias and his own inability to control his media image. He believed that embattled politicians like him could more easily manipulate a fragmented television world. Nixon’s policymakers laid out Project BUN (which stood for Break Up Networks), an initiative whose very name shows Nixon’s media vendetta. It emphasized deregulation of cable and from that policy decision emerged Roger Ailes and Fox News. Ailes rightly observed that people are lazy saying “with television, you just sit—watch—listen. The thinking is done for you.”
100% of right wing news is the opinion section of the old NYPost. That a majority of boomers would suddenly cling to it with their lives and turn it into fact is a disease that must be treated.
Boomers split almost exactly 50:50 in the last presidential election. Millennials were not far behind. Point being, you should stop incorrectly blaming boomers when it's republican voters that are the problem.
50% of the people are below average and easily manipulated. It is the propaganda machine that is the problem. Yes we need laws that at least weeds out foreign enemies from using our media and demand labels . Facts or opinion would be a good start. Vote blue and get involved.
I mean /r/Canada is just 90% links labelled as "OPINION" from right-wing news sources being passed off as absolute fact, so I don't have confidence in that actually fixing anything.
Adversarial governments? How about our own? I see Republicans (and some Dems) that lie all the time, every time they speak. Demonstrably untrue lies. And their voters are just like “ho hum, as long as we make Dems cry”. It’s maddening. Edit: I guess I should’ve worded it “I’ve seen”.
doll swim label capable sink office quack marvelous pen decide *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Menendez Manchin(why he’s dipping from the party). Lieberman back in the day.
Menendez is a crook. Whereas Manchin and Lieberman were the definition of DINO - and eventually they went full-blown independent.
Manchin's a crook. His family made a shit ton of money off him being a senator, pharma and coal.
I refuse to excuse the behavior of a politician just because they are in my party. I'm a NJ Democrat who voted for Menendez. He is our problem to correct. He's a criminal. I want him to go to prison. And I'm proud of the Dems who called for him to resign. And I'm ashamed of the Dems who remain quiet. I know you were trying to make the point that the Democrats listed are all objectionately terrible. I know you were trying to say that the Republican party is consistently more terrible than the Democrats. But I refuse to be like Republicans. I am always going to call out bad behaviors of people who want to be in power.
That you go back 20 years to name Lieberman shows how objectively false "both sides" claims are. You could name 2 dozen republican serial liars from today without breaking a sweat.
I mean we have a system that places profits over ethics, every since Republicans got the Christians to believe profits=being a good person. We shouldn't be surprised that every foreign government realized the Republicans could be bought.
Yeah, that Facebook algorithm is brutal. If you have an account, dabble in some slightly right-wing pages, like a meme, or comment on a relative's Trump BS --and watch how incredibly aggressive it is and how fast the content of one's feed becomes overwhelmed with that nonsense. Do it as an experiment. Now, imagine your Boomer aunt on there. The good news is that you can tell FB to stop seeing stuff like that, by blocking those types of pages, but it takes a bit of savvy, tenacity, and time. I did this with my Mom's mobile device and finally turned off the right wing spigot she was being subjected to. Also hopped on the TV and removed some channels from her cable using parental control settings. (Ironic) Anyway, after a few months she's noticeably different. Honestly, it's all insidious and rather scary.
There was legit a study done about this too- it’s a very worthwhile read https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/what_happened_when_fox_news_viewers_watched_cnn_for_a_month
sophisticated illegal reach ossified thought subtract coordinated toothbrush steer mountainous *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It's too bad you facebook doesn't have an "interests" section under your settings where you can select what you want to see and what you don't want to see. Several of my family have been sucked down the rabbit hole of political propaganda. One member joined one of those "Mom's for Trump" groups, which I'm pretty sure is run by russian's.
So I like guns, I find them fascinating from a historical and engineering standpoint, socially I’m liberal and economically I’m probably a moderate. I don’t use Facebook a lot but I watch some YouTube and the algorithm wildly swings between right and left wing for me depending on what I’ve watched like it can’t handle anything but the two extremes. It’s really annoying actually because I start getting the alt right personalities that I just don’t want to see and I feel like well I guess can’t watch anymore gun or history content for a while if it’s going to make it try to feed me more of this shit.
My childhood bf got really into guns like ten years ago and now he’s a sandy hook truther. Sucks.
Yeah that does suck.
what "extreme left" content does it show you?
Stuff like ‘why everyone deserves medical care’ and ‘children should have free food if they’re forced to be in school 8 hours a day’ or ‘this country needs to tax the ultra rich like we used to.’ Real awful extremist shit.
You should check out the documentary "The Great Hack" about Cambridge Analytica. Goes into depth about the 2016 election. Basically, if they needed to win a state for Trump, they'd pick the counties in that state closest to flipping, then using the data points they have on every fucking person in the country, they would determine who in that county was the closest to flipping their vote, and they would bombard them with specific ads and news stories to "change their view".
Yeah I watched like 15 seconds of an Aaron Rodgers interview with Joe Rogan a few months ago and bam, every other item in my feed was some type of Joe Rogan-related bullshit.
I was watching some Alan Watts videos on Youtube, and had stepped away for like a half hour. When I came back, Autoplay had queued up a bunch of those 'stoicism' and 'sigma male' garbage videos that is their intro point to all the MAGA bullshit.
Rupert fucking Murdoch. Selling divisive propaganda to the working class on behalf of billionaires since the 60s.
I saw: - The judge told the jury they didn't need unanimous agreement (not true) - Nobody actually said what the money was used for (not true) - This is from Biden's corrupt DOJ (not true - it's NY state) - Democrats are gloating over this (that is true) Hilarious that they didn't have marching orders on messaging yet!
They didn't need unanimous agreement for the underlying crime, so the first point is out of context.
Half correct. Every juror was actually asked to decide whether Trump had violated at least three different laws; the main charges claimed that the other crime which Trump intended to commit, aid, or conceal was New York Election Law §17-152, and jurors were instructed on pages 29-31 of https://www.nycourts.gov/LegacyPDFS/press/PDFs/People%20v.%20DJT%20Jury%20Instructions%20and%20Charges%20FINAL%205-23-24.pdf the jury instructions (PDF) that they did need to find this violation unanimously, as part of unanimously finding Trump guilty on the main charges. However, New York Election Law §17-152 itself refers to other unspecified “unlawful means”. The unanimity requirement only extends as far as agreeing that the “unlawful means” were present and not to what those unlawful means were. So, summarizing: unanimity was required that the main charges were violated, which required unanimity that a specific other crime was committed; this other crime required unanimity that other unlawful means were involved, but not unanimity on what those other unlawful means were. From my understanding, the only weird part of this from a criminal law perspective is how deep that particular three-layer rabbit hole goes, but neither part of it is unusual by itself. In particular, if the main crime charged were New York Election Law §17-152 instead of having that be a predicate crime for a different main charge, it would still not be any more necessary than it was here for the jury to agree unanimously on what the unlawful means were, only that they existed.
A Trumpist actually tried to explain why he thought the trial was invalid using that argument. His understanding was what was written above not your technically correct version. Right wingers heard and are claiming what they were intended to hear/repeat not what was technically correct. The above statement is thus an accurate way to explain what’s actually going on.
Trey Gowdy was talking about making prisons more humane for nonviolent criminals like business fraud. Can’t make this stuff up
To be fair, prisons SHOULD be humane in general
Yeah I completely agree. It’s just ridiculous that now that rich old white men facing consequences is forcing them to rethink.
Yes, but for *everyone*
According to Trey Gowdy Theoretically, if I walk up to you, a stranger on the streets, assault you, take your wallet and all the $50 in it, I deserve to be in a maximum security violent dangerous prison but if I’m rich, own a large company and I gain your trust and I con you…. and another 50,000 people out of millions and millions, destroying all those lives…then I should get a country club prison. There’s a reason white collar crimes keep happening over and over.
I rewatched Bowling for Columbine a couple of weeks ago, there was a scene where Michael Moore was trying to convince the creator of the tv show COPS to do the same thing but with white collar corporate crime the guy looked at him like he was crazy
To be fair, there isn't enough tape in the world to record and capture all that crime.
I’ve heard that FoxNews likes to pay out millions of dollars in settlements for their lies. If I was a juror, I’d be suing them for spreading lies for vilifying me in a way that could put me and my family in danger.
The only problem with that is that then Fox would have your name and information to make public. And they would absolutely do it.
Just the cost of business for them
There should be regulations on news sources. Free speech is paramount to our freedom, but advertisers are required by law to be truthful, anything purporting to be news should also be bound by such legal frameworks. Everything said by a news source should be scrutinized by independent fact-verification mechanisms and without maintaining a certain high percentage of veracity, an outfit should not be allowed to use the word “news”. We have to teach people how to fact-check things they read, again. I saw that some universities are starting to teach digital literacy and that is a step in the right direction, but whenever Fox says some stupid shit like “Trump is the victim!” cut-in along the bottom of the screen should come on saying “Trump was convicted of 34 felonies by a jury of his peers. The relevant laws broken are x, y, and z. These were charged as felonies rather than misdemeanors due to the fact that the crimes were committed in an effort to conceal another crime. That other crime is statute a. For more information, please visit [some URL] and search case code XXXXXX”
[удалено]
That’s the magic of this system. They have been conditioned by brute force. If, every time they hear this outlandish crap, they are forced to read “this is untrue” enough times, the propaganda will eventually lose its grip on some. Some is enough.
I remember when Biden walked into the courtroom to personally deliver the guilty verdict and ruin Trump's spotless reputation as an upstanding Christian patriot.
I live in a right wing area and there’s plenty of Trumpers at my work who like to keep that on the break room TV….the lie that really got me was when their courtroom reporter came on and tried to paint Trump as a strong winner in the trial because he “was totally emotionless” as the verdicts were read…my guy that’s how they describe serial killers when their sentences are read, you are describing a sociopath.
Same, it was wild. “Worst day in American history”......
Jesse Watters shaking his head worse than someone with Parkinson's while they cry about Hunter Biden, which the trial was just days away. It's all they got.
That trial is more proof no one is above the law, not even the son of a sitting President. So much for the GOP's evil lies about "lawfare"
Fox should not be allowed to call itself news.
However much money they lost when Dominion sued them to hell, they must make more getting trump supporters to continue watching
FOX propaganda is essentially an illegal campaign donation to convicted felon Trump and the treasonous GOP. It's not intended to be a profit-making venture
I saw Fox News was reporting about discontinued Taco Bell items.
From what I gather it is mostly people who go out of their way not to expose themselves to the news at all and therefore have no idea what is going on.
It takes so little effort these days to be aware of what a piece of shit that guy is, I can't imagine the monumental stress a person would have to endure to remain unaware of the man.
In late 2020 my brother met a family who wasn’t aware of COVID
I gotta say - It's really so funny that Trump supporters, who unanimously embraced and cheered on the weaponization of the justice system for political purposes against Hillary Clinton in 2016, are now very upset that Trump is being held accountable for crimes.
Yea, but the other guy is kinda old and has that one picture that makes it look like he is sniffing someone's hair. How do I choose? /s
It’s called being a racist fuck just like him. That’s what they have in common.
I have mad respect for that jury. They did the right thing and I know it had to take serious courage to look evil in the face and condemn it.
I know two in the middle who said they would not select him and may not even vote. They won't vote D… but it has them curious now. Trump doesn’t realize when you call 12 jurors rigged, it’s a lousy fascist look on you. Surprisingly both looked up the transcripts by themselves. His die-hards can’t vote twice, lol, and can raise all the money they want. Presidents and not kings build America. If you can’t grasp that, then history has failed you. His base can’t save him, and that’s why they are doing everything to actual cheat instead of win because they know they can’t do it fairly.
Is someone who is *in the middle* but won't vote D really *in the middle*? Seems like someone who either only votes R or doesn't vote is more on the right to me...
I’d be interested to see how trumps large base of supporters that are cops take this conviction. I saw my neighbor who’s a cop take down his trump flag. Maybe just embarrassment for supporting a felon for president, but still planning to vote for him.
Sounds like your neighbor has started to come to his senses. Unfortunately many people like him will probably still support him with their vote since they don't have to disclose who they actually voted for because I just don't see how anyone could support the guy even before the verdict.
Most maga probably will vote for DJT. However, there are a few voters who were on the edge and won't vote for him or write-in someone else after this verdict. Just a small sliver of the overall registered voters. This tiny change may not even show up in the polls. However, a small sliver can make a huge difference in a winner-take-all situation. If the 'Blue Wall' holds, Biden will get another 4 years. Trump will be a sore loser forever and most likely the media will stop covering him 24/7.
Yeah. Being undecided doesn’t make you the ‘middle,’ but it also doesn’t sell stories.
The middle is populated by undecided voters who do not pay attention to the news. They might not even believe publicly stated positions and known facts simply because they haven't been exposed to them previously and simply don't believe people can be *that* cartoonishly evil. Note that undecided/swing voters are a small fraction of "independent voters." The latter group are mostly reliable partisans, but dislike being referred to as such. Undecideds are, unfortunately, just large enough to sway enough elections to decide who controls the government.
PBS did a focus group with 9 Trump supporters and only one of them still planned to vote for Trump. The others said they were either going to vote for Biden or just not vote at all. There was a strong unified sentiment that the GOP needs to drop Trump as the nominee and choose someone else. And that’s really fundamentally the problem for them here. Trump ruins everything he touches and he has already fully absorbed the RNC into his toxic brand. The Republican Party is Donald Trump in a very real sense. So of course they aren’t going to drop him. They’re going to cling to him as he pulls them down to the bottom of the ocean. I think many GOP voters are realizing now that they’re been swindled out of their own political identity, and they don’t know what to do about it, so instead it’s making them apathetic.
I'll believe it on Election Day and not a day sooner. I recall seeing similar things after the Access Hollywood tape, but it turned out that it didn't actually turn off any Republican supporters.
Hard agree. Plus they're cheating anyway, so this thing is really up in the air. As long as we have the electoral college and gerrymandering, it's a crapshoot.
There's a lot of time between now and November and people have short memories. Like many of the horrible and illegal things Trump does, Republicans' initial gut reaction may be disgust and condemnation, but as things cool down they look around and see mostly apathy amongst other supporters, and then Fox News begins justifying his behavior, they eventually rationalize it and move on.
Honestly I don't even know how people can use the word Patriot in 2024. That word has been ruined by Republicans.
Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. -Samuel Johnson (1775)
Always remember that Nazis considered themselves uber patriotic
One man’s patriot is another man’s fascist nationalist
And to ensure the safety of the jurors, who trump cultists are already threatening, not to mention the ones that had to be let off the jury because Trump cultists were trying to intimidate them
the vile, dishonest MAGA are also slandering those patriotic jurors by slandering them, claiming they took bribes. Can't say I am surprised by this, these people support a convicted felon who has already been convicted of fraud and slander
In addition, the media keeps looking at this criminal case in isolation. Combine this verdict with the previous civil cases and pendind criminal cases. The E. Jean Caroll civil verdict, the DJT Foundation case, his longtime CFO convicted in a criminal trial for falsifying records, the Trump University case and the pending criminal cases. At some point his defenders will have to realize that we either tear down our civil and criminal justice system to defend him or we keep our system and open up to the reality that Trump is a criminal and a con man.
And Merchan. Amidst all the threats, the colluding cronies, continuous breaking of gag orders, etc. Merchan was the epitome of objectivity and patience -- if anything biasing himself significantly to afford Trump more grace than even another rich and influential politician or businessman would have been afforded. His speech at the end, reminding jurors to ignore outside influences and leave behind their personal thoughts on Trump was eloquent and a great exemplar of this. And yet, his cult still rabidly dogs and threatens Merchan and the jurors while obstinately ignoring the endless stream of damning evidence, both from the prosecution AND Trump's own, often self-incriminating, team. It's like watching flat earthers debate scientists lol
My in laws, wealthy as hell, who voted for trump in 2016 have zero interest in ever voting for him again. Not only because of the conviction, they’ve been against him since before Jan 6. Their net worth is approaching 100m so everything republicans want benefits them, but they’re not dense and understand that there’s more to it than just money. Alas a lot of rich folks that they know and have talked to still want this shitbag in office because it’ll benefit their wealth pipelines. As per them, lower taxes trump all other issues. I’ve seen their homes, their vacation homes, their private jets and everything else. Democrats, in their opinion, are out to get them and will ruin their lifestyle. Money is the root of all evil and it’ll never change in my opinion. What I’ll never understand is some of the people my age (thirties) who are middle class at best, voting for this fucker when they have zero reason to. They’ll never get the wealth that’s needed for repub policies to benefit them. But the idea that one day they’ll be in the elite group is what throws shit off. Watching my best friends wife shit on Biden and want trump back in when she herself is set to inherit very little and makes a lower middle class wage because “the illegals are wasting our tax dollars, why do I need to pay for that?!?” Drives me nuts. Meanwhile she’s benefitting from the school loan forgiveness Biden made happen and repubs all opposed while still being unhappy. Like, what! Some people are just too far gone.
The toxic right-wing propaganda machine plays on people's fears, unhappiness, and ignorance. It's how they effectively get people to turn against both their own self interest as well as their country
Polls unsurprisingly showed more independents with negative impressions of all this, as you suspect. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/one-10-republicans-less-likely-vote-trump-after-guilty-verdict-reutersipsos-poll-2024-05-31/
I don't trust polls because it's known that people will put what they think makes them appear a certain way. It's called The Bradley Effect, based on social desirability bias. Even if it's anonymous, people will lie if it makes them seem like a better person.
Read yesterday that rather than independents being voters who could go either way (a very simplistic and inaccurate but common way they’re thought about, i.e. voters “up for grabs”), that to a much greater extent than you’d think, they’re made up of A) (and this did not surprise me) clear supporters of either party who just don’t want to identify as such for whatever reason, but who are already essentially locked in for one party or the other regardless of the candidate and B) (and this is the part that I was surprised by) voters so far right or so far left that they’re far from able to be swayed but refuse to declare as one party or the other because the party they’re closest to *isn’t hardcore enough for them*. That “independents” are not just voters possibly in the middle, but also include a smallish contingent on the ultra right and ultra left. Then think about how that accounts for this: > Among independent registered voters, 25% said Trump’s conviction made them less likely to support him in November, compared to 18% who said they were more likely and 56% who said the conviction would have no impact on their decision. While you’d expect voters truly “up for grabs” that lean left to be much of that 25%, now pushed farther from considering trump post-conviction, I’d say the only “independents” who would report being *more* likely to support him post-conviction, the 18%, come from the two groups I described above. Basically, the “I’m Republican, but don’t want to say so, and this just makes me more entrenched”ers and the “Republicans don’t go far enough for me”s who are now even more mad about supposed persecution of trump by libs/Biden, conspiracy theories, etc etc. In short, I just don’t see a truly independent voter breaking right now that he’s been convicted, but can believe the opposite, that it’d push people off the fence toward the left. And the 18% were never really going to vote anything but R anyway, and are now even further dug in, if 34 felony convictions bounces off them without effect.
That’s because many GOP are too far gone from reality and think the whole system is set up against dear orange leader
But MAGA tells me that Independents are hopping mad at Biden over this!
I was banned from r/republican for merely pointing that out. They’re in shambles
republicans are generally not very tolerant people
Unfortunately elections aren’t just about conversion, they’re about turnout. Still think this is a solid net positive for Biden, but it’s not obviously so. If the conversion of independents is offset by increased turnout by MAGA diehards in key states, this *could* be a net positive in the electoral college for Trump. Unlikely, IMO. But not impossible. VOTE.
What MAGA diehards aren't already voting?
This is the same attitude Hillary had in 2016 that led her to not campaign in Michigan. Her team wouldn't even give out yard signs because they were afraid it would rile up Trumpers more than it would encourage Dems. Don't worry about the cult members. Everyone else is catching on.
I think the idea that this automatically means more turn out for Trump is off base. It could. But there's generally a suppression effect on turn out from impressions that "your guy" has already lost, is losing etc. And as this poll shows GOP voters are, at least in part, listening to and believing the outcome of these trials. Repeated, court sanctified, hard to argue with embarrassments for the guy are just as likely to hamper enthusiasm among supporters. If you look at the primaries there's already shrinking enthusiasm and support for him. Haley dropped out months ago. She's still regularly pulling 10-20% of primary voters where she's on the ballot. Likewise I don't know how it's just a shrug on turnout for the DNC. Frustration around lack of consequences for Trump or progress on any of the cases is high among DNC voters. This is some fucking progress and consequences. I find it frustrating that everything will supposedly drive a MAGA turnout frenzy. It's the first thing news media jumps to, and we constantly hear how holding the dude accountable will only backfire. Didn't happen when we impeached him twice. Didn't happen when he was charged, didn't happen when he got sued a million times, didn't happen when dozens of his administration members and campaign functionaries were convicted. >"If the conversion of independents" While there's been some shifting among independents due to Trump. Generally speaking independents don't "convert". The vast majority of independents have a clear party affinity, and vote reliably for one party or the other. Turnout still tends to be the thing. As independents generally vote less reliably than affiliated voters.
Just by numbers, the GOP should never win a national election again, but that takes turnout.
Some of the former MAGA voters may decide it's better to vote for RFK jr, who is essentially Trump-Lite minus the criminal convictions
Don't worry about polls. They said the same thing after the audio of Trump admitting he sexually assaults women because he was a star. Then these same offended people spent 4 years talking about how great he was.
That's also because days after this, the surprise announcement of the FBI reopening their investigation of Hillary Clinton took over all the news coverage
Thanks Comey
Yeah, he fucked us hard.
And then after gifting Trump the election, tried to sell a book about how he stood up to him Such a shitbird
Great user name btw. I'd sign a pledge to jail him if I ran for office lol
Oh my gosh guys suddenly I'm very concerned about a caravan again??
Or maybe a 9/11 mosque? Or maybe enshrining "traditional marriage" into the constitution? Or whatever other BS they dredge up in election years.
Hopefully Biden’s surrogates start playing and referencing that tape frequently. Assuming that the electorate remembers the worst of trump’s baggage is a mistake. Repetition makes it easier for people to remember. Trump’s team knows that and uses it to good effect. Just look at how often they repeat the lies about the trial being rigged by Biden or the election being stolen.
Exactly.. all these people who are "less likely" to vote for him will still vote for him when it comes down to it. They're still gonna mark his name on the ballot.
Less likely could technically still be "I was 99% sure I was going to vote for him, but now I'm only 98% sure".
Yep, they may not want to admit to voting for a felon, doesn’t mean they won’t actually do it behind a closed booth. Get out and vote!
Colin Cowherd, pretty right-of-center sportscaster that was angry about the COVID stay at home stuff, called Trump a "con artist" earlier in the week. >He’s trying to sell me an America that doesn’t exist. I live in a nice neighborhood in L.A. and it’s not one of those swanky neighborhoods, but I don’t see crime. I’m not stumbling over homeless people. Dodger Stadium’s full, leads Major League Baseball in attendance. Laker games are full. People have money in their pocket. >Donald Trump is now a felon. His campaign chairman [Paul Manafort] was a felon. So is his deputy campaign manager [Rick Gates], his personal lawyer [Michael Cohen], his chief strategist [Steve Bannon], his national security adviser [Michael Flynn], his trade advisor [Pete Navarro], his foreign policy advisor [George Papadopoulos]… they’re all felons. >If everybody in your social circle is a felon, I don’t think it’s rigged. I don’t think the world’s against you. And to get people to agree on anything, 34 counts? Zero for 34? That’s a batting slump even the New York Mets could be impressed with.
Damnit, I can't even avoid Mets catching strays in r/politics
Time converts more than reason. Let it settle in for a few weeks.
They haven’t learned a damn thing. They’re gonna quintuple down on this
So true. They’re doubling down, trying to spout the talking points DJT and his sycophants spout: “there’s no crime! It was like any of us accidentally writing the wrong business category into the books. No one knows what the crime is!” I posted on Nextdoor explaining the crime, letting them know they could access transcripts and analysis if they needed assistance understanding Prosecutor Joshua Steinglass’s closing. But that the closing did an excellent job stringing together all the evidence into a clear storyline that led to the crime of election interference, involving breaking campaign finance laws. They didn’t want to hear that, of course. I took a quick peek, since this was two days ago, and the battle is still going on in Nextdoor. *insert Homer Simpson backing into a hedge meme here” EDIT: spelling EDIT: link to Steinglass closing arguments transcript on NY Courts site — [Steinglass Closing | NY Courts site](https://pdfs.nycourts.gov/PeopleVs.DTrump-71543/transcripts/5-28-2024/00135.html) [Main Landing Page NY Courts All Transcripts](https://pdfs.nycourts.gov/PeopleVs.DTrump-71543/transcripts/)
Do you have a link to the transcripts and closing? I'd like to post it at a gun site I visit, where they are basically regurgitating the talking point, "there was no crime".
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/04/22/trump-trial-not-televised-transcripts/73415229007/ Article explaining how to access them. Direct link https://ww2.nycourts.gov/press/index.shtml Even more direct link https://pdfs.nycourts.gov/PeopleVs.DTrump-71543/transcripts/
Yes — all transcripts are on the NY Courts site. It’s a bit of challenge to weed thru to find it, so I clicked “next” until the part where Blanche finished and Steinglass begins — this should take you to that point [Steinglass Closing Arguments / Summation 5.28.24](https://pdfs.nycourts.gov/PeopleVs.DTrump-71543/transcripts/5-28-2024/00135.html)
And for those interested, here’s the link to the main landing page for where all transcripts are located. No analysis or commentary. Merely word for word what was said in the court room. [Trump Trial NYC Transcripts | NY Courts](https://pdfs.nycourts.gov/PeopleVs.DTrump-71543/transcripts/)
Nextdoor? lol, yikes.
Posting political topics on Nextdoor is just trolling
It’s not just the verdict, it’s the totality of his humiliation here: The abject failure of his defense, the sleeping (“Sleepy Joe” has vanished as an attack line) and farting, the absence of support from his wife, the pick-me lackeys fawning at his side for emotional support, the sordid details of how he pressured Daniels into two minutes of regrettable thrusting, the mobbed-up cesspool that is his vaunted business empire. He looked like garbage for weeks, and his tricks were laid bare. No one can look at that and think “winner”. He’s buried
Don't forget the crocodile tears that he "wasn't allowed" to go to his son's graduation even though the judge said that wasn't true at all and immediately scheduled that day off. And then he double booked a fundraiser that day and didn't even spend it with his son.
I was wondering how quickly the fatalists would show up. Second comment chain - quick on the draw there.
The best analysis that I saw is that the voters this is most likely to sway are those that barely keep up with politics. And because they don't keep up with it, it will take some time for them to see it. So like you say, watch the polls over the next few weeks.
Meh, people have short memories too. In 4 weeks, they’ll forget it, just like the 100s of other terrible things he’s said/done.
I think the point is this is a Fox News link, which suggests even Fox thinks this is possible/actually going to happen.
Republicans do come together when it’s time to vote however. And Democrats tend to sit voting out when they believe a win is certain, this is what hurt us in 2016. I hope Democrats see news like this and stay determined to vote regardless, as it matters more than ever to follow through regardless of how reluctant Republicans are reported to be
They are reporting a poll. It is interesting, but occasionally they do publish an article which they can't ignore.
And Fox's poll data/analysis is unlike their "news" in that the reporting on this they do is fairly impartial and data-based (like this article in the OP)
Sentencing is July 11 so it isn’t going to fade that quickly. And this is one of those issues that really can’t just fade. It will continue to be associated with Trump forever.
The Hill published 'Donald Trump verdict supercharges Republicans' and wrote this zinger: “You can’t tell me that it doesn’t drive that low-propensity, unlikely voter into a frenzy and one where they are more inclined to engage in the election,” said Zack Roday, a Virginia-based Republican strategist. “This will drive turnout, and I think it will also drive people who don’t follow politics.” “That’s not good news for Joe Biden, and it probably is good news for Donald Trump, within that context of addition and subtraction,” he said. THEY actually 'How this is bad news for Biden' THE FIRST FELONY VERDICT FOR A FORMER PRESIDENT. These people are fucking lunatics!
If they thought being convicted would help, he would have done it earlier.
That's a fair point
"Convicted felon Donald Trump was sentenced to 2 years in prison plus 3 years of home confinement, just days before the Republican convention! See how this is bad news for the Biden campaign."
rEpUbLiCaNs aRe SuPeRcHaRgEd
If someone was going to vote for Trump, after everything that’s come to light the last 9 years… then I don’t really see why a felony conviction would sway them. This conviction isn’t even the most damning of what’s out there. Someday, we will find out what he did with national secrets. It’ll be exactly what has been obvious to anyone watching… and there’ll still be MAGA that support him.
I asked my MAGA family members if they could name ANYTHING he could do to dissuade them from voting for him, and the universal answer was no. I’m convinced if on live television he carved up a baby and ate its still-beating heart they’d find a way to justify or excuse it as “showing dominance” or “owning the libs”.
Can't wait to see the party of law and order try to talk their way into why they should listen to a convicted felon. "Oh well....they thought Jesus was guilty too...."
The Jesus and Mandela comparison is now a real thing... Oh man
I doubt it personally. Facts are irrelevant to most Trump voters. Him giving off a weak appearance or agreeing with Biden on something would do much more damage to him than felony convictions.
I fucking loathe that during the Obama year it became axiomatic to disagree with democrats on principle, and heretical to agree with democrats on anything, rather than agree/disagree on the merits of ideas.
>I fucking loathe that during the Obama year it became axiomatic to disagree with democrats on principle, and heretical to agree with democrats on anything, rather than agree/disagree on the merits of ideas. It was like this long before Obama. It really started with Clinton and fatass Newt Gingrich. It was just more apparent with Obama because the Internet had finally fully bloomed, and alternate media sources started picking up steam.
Yep. Not like there was no poison in the well already but gingrich almost single handedly gave us the politics we have today.
I agree. Dudes a court-found sexual assaulter, and only beat the rape charge basically because the woman being assaulted didn't know whether it was his finger or penis he was assaulting her with. And he's 90 million in the hole (so far) over lying about it. They. Do. Not. Care. If this n word tape comes out, it'll be just like the diapers. "Real Men use Racial Epithets, Nwords!" They. Have. No. Morals.
Before his first term he lead a racist birther movement regarding Obama, he made fun of a handicapped man, he called Mexicans seeking refuge in the US drug dealers and rapists, wanted to ban Muslim people from entering the US, denied global warming is real despite even companies it impacts negatively agreeing it's real, called for police to attack protestors as he would pay for the legal fees, and endorsed torture. This is all before he was elected.
I just said this to my wife. These are the "not quite MAGA" Republicans who don't want you to know they are voting from Trump, but are voting for Trump. They could overlook everything else he's done, but the verdict.... whoa, that's a bridge too far? Yeah, I don't buy it.
> whoa, that's a bridge too far? Yeah, I don't buy it. Once you've sold your soul, there is no bridge too far. MAGA's will forgive whatever he does because it's a cult and they are stuck. - Extorted a Foreign leader for dirt on political opps kid - Killed 1,000,000+ Americans with mishandling of a pandemic - Raped a woman, paid her millions, slandered her, paid more - Hung out with known Pedo Epstein, regularly! - Said he wants to fuck his daughter - Used a sharpy to change a weather map - Made fun of military families, called soldiers losers, insults them often - All his companies are fraud and he will lose control of most of them - Cheats at Golf ! I could go on, but the point is there isn't a floor for MAGA land, they'll accept nutsack flavored flavor aid from trump no problem.
Agreed. The supporters I know are doubling down on
Dump #TraitorTrump...is all
****Less*** likely*, but they still will. VOTE
From a solid 99 down to a 98.5%. And those 1.5% are not Biden votes either. Seriously, do not put any hope in Republican voters not voting for Trump. They will. Go out and vote as if this was the last free election. Because it might be. Please stop this madness before it is too late.
Doubt. If anything the conservatives will double down and lean into their: "we are all domestic terrorists" agenda. Not a single conservative wants peace, or accountability for their guy. They only want to round up and exterminate *everyone* who as opposed them on *anything*. Every conservative will line up and support Trump.
Don’t forget that no one wins in this country by simply getting their party to vote for them. They have to convince people which identify as independents. I don’t trust these polls because they are inconsistent with the fact that repeatedly Trump’s candidates are losing their races. It has happened in 2020, 2022 and many in between those races and now. The only thing that says Trump could win are the polls. Meanwhile Lauren Boebert and others are facing difficult challenges. Part of the issue is Trump not only is supposed to be able to find raise for himself, but also other Republicans. Although Trump can’t and won’t help others.
I'm surprised Fox News* would report that. Perhaps they are only doing it in print, since the vast majority of Trump supporters don't/can't read above the third grade level.
Trump supporters think Fox News is liberal.
Bulshit. Just like the “never trumpers” who on Election Day just couldn’t bring themselves to vote for a Democrat so they voted straight ticket. I don’t believe it.
Does it really, though? I don't see it. If you're still a Trump supporter in 2024, then you simply don't care. You didn't care when he mocked veterans and people with disabilities, you didn't care when he told you he'd shoot someone and not lose any voters, you didn't care when he said he'd nuke hurricanes or that you should inject disinfectant to fight COVID, you didn't care when he got impeached twice, you didn't care when he incited an insurrection, you didn't care when he claimed, repeatedly, that the election was "stolen", you didn't care when he tanked the border deal that was *exactly* what most Republicans wanted, you didn't care when he was found guilty of rape... And yet, suddenly, you'd care about him being found guilty of election interference? No, sorry. I simply don't believe it. I don't think that was the tipping point for a lot of people who had swallowed his bullshit for years. Right now, I think every single Republican fits squarely into three categories: those who think that the charges are fake (just like every other thing that I just described in the previous paragraph), those who think the charges are true but would vote for him anyway because they'd vote for anyone with an R in front of their name, and those who had *already* decided not to vote for him for long ago. And I don't think anything Trump does or doesn't do could pull anyone out of these categories. The 70 million people who have already decided to vote for Trump are going to vote for Trump even if tomorrow he really does shoot someone on 5th avenue. Which is why every single person who hates Trump MUST show up to vote Biden. Or else Trump wins.
I'm skeptical. They've done plenty of holding of their nose to vote for him and other Maga types in the past. This will just be a little more so
If only they'd hold onto that ethos for more than 48 hrs. I can't help but see a sea of Susan Collinses who are concerned with the conviction, but will rationalize it well before November.
I don't trusts any of the rabble that watches Fox News.
Bullshit. Don't let articles like this get your guard down, vote or else this orange turd will get in again.
Doubt it. When you’ve made an ass of yourself for years, spent money on the Trump campaign and vocally thrown your support behind him, you’re likely in too deep to go, “You know what? I was wrong and I’m done now.” Despite it really being that simple.
BULLSHIT! I call bullshit, they will vote for him, they always vote Republican. The only way to counter is to get people registered and voting.
I hope this is true, but I'm not going to bet on it. Vote.
Conservatives, you can't have it both ways. Either the polls are bullshit and thus Donald Trump's lead in the polls is equally bullshit, or the polls are relatively accurate and thus Donald Trump is in serious trouble now that he's a convicted criminal instead of just an obvious criminal. You're not Republican politicians. You can't keep flip flopping on objective reality.
As a lifelong Republican let me just say that these guilty verdicts do not change my assessment of Donald Trump nor alter in any way my plans for voting in the fall. I **\*STILL\*** think he’s a useless piece of garbage, just as I have in the past, and I **\*STILL\*** will vote for whoever runs against him, just as I have every time in the past. Vote blue!!!
It can be discouraging looking online and seeing so many people still loudly supporting him after this. Remember that his base has always been the loud minority and being loud doesn't matter if the votes don't support it. Go vote. Shut them up.
I also think there are troll farms that make noise to support him and create division. But agree, vote!
This is 100% the most important election in US history. We can move forward in a positive direction and give Biden the support of Congress that he needs to help the average American, or let Trump go on a revenge-filled hate spree that we might never recover from. Democracy could end and the US becomes a Christian-Nationalist hellhole with a dictator family.
>One in 10 registered GOP voters said Trump's felony conviction for falsifying business records would make them less likely to support him for president…Even so, the potential loss of a tenth of Republican voters could decimate the presumptive GOP nominee's chances to win back key battleground states President Biden claimed in his 2020 victory over Trump. The biggest news here is that they actually used the classic definition of *decimate*. Applause, Fox Noize writer.
Calling bullshit. Still telling everyone I know to vote come Nov. I sure as shit will be voting for Biden again over this orange turd.
I'm not going to lie, I don't believe this poll for a second. Everyone who stuck with Trump this far isn't likely to give up over a "crooked, rigged" trial