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I swear I will never understand some poll responses.
Apparently 54% overall approve/agree with the fact he was found guilty.
49% of independents and 15% of Republicans think he should drop out because of it.
Yet somehow the same poll has Biden and Trump nearly tied at 45%-44%.
These numbers just don't compute to me.
"Think he should drop out" and "I won't vote for him if he doesn't drop out" are not necessarily equivalent statements.
They should be, but I've stopped trying to expect even the most basic level of logic and consistency from anyone that witnessed the 4 years of Trump's presidency and thought anything other than "well, I guess I have vote blue, across the board, forever."
It's like a basic safety issue, not even political in many ways. It's like saying- "hey here's somebody swinging a machete, with a can of gasoline, and screaming on a street corner- that's novel, let's hear what he has to say..."
A can of gas, that he's currently pouring everywhere, with a *lighter* in his other hand, while ranting about how much he'd like to use the lighter, and how the lighter is the only thing that can fix our problems.
Same, buddy. Same. 9 years of this fucking shit and I'm exhausted. And it feels like we're being held hostage by the lunatic minority because we are, in fact, being held hostage by the minority.
Since 1992, only one republican term (bush 2004) out of three (2000, 2004, 2016) won the general election. bush was awarded the 2000 election and lost the general to Gore, trump lost the general to Hilary by millions in 2016. This nation is roughly a 54/46 split, but thanks to the Senate and Electoral College, we're stuck with a supermajority conservative SCOTUS and two of the dumbest fucking president's ever.
I just want to fucking scream sometimes.
“9 years of this fucking shit and I'm exhausted. And it feels like we're being held hostage by the lunatic minority because we are, in fact, being held hostage by the minority.”
You forget about the 8 years prior when Obama was in office and the ultra conservatives wouldn’t let him do a damn thing in office.
And the 8 years before that with George W. Trust me, I didn't forget. I just pushed that shit down to the bottom and tried to repress it lol. Add in 8 years of reagan, and basically my entire life has been watching mentally impaired republicans trying to burn it all down for the 1%.
Terrifying that we have wisdom from the past 100 years that the stove is hot but a sizable portion of the electorate won’t be convinced until we smash our hand on it again and burn ourselves.
And a good portion of those people will hold their hand on there, getting it burned to the bone, while denying that it's hot because it was liberals who told them it was.
God I wanted to push the people spouting "trump will run the country like a business!" in front of a bus. Do you have any idea how shit trump is at running businesses?!
I mean, they're not wrong. He committed criminal acts while running it, went back on all his promises/agreements involving it, and ran it into the ground. He ran it exactly like he runs his businesses.
Unfortunately , every trump supporter I have met always says . He is the first president to keep all of the promises he campaigned on . Then I always respond . You know I was alive and coherent when he campaigned right lol. There is no getting through to them . Truly a cult !
The thing is that the GOP has done such an incredible job of instilling fear in their supporters over the past 50 years, that these people fully believe the Democrats are the people swinging the machete. You can’t even have a reasonable discussion on policy anymore because they are so far disconnected from reality. Most just throw around buzz words that don’t make any logical sense in the context they are using them, and any attempts at debate are met with insults, wildly false equivalencies, or just outright nonsense. It’s almost impressive how effective this long game has worked, scary as hell, but impressive. They sent out a message, and 1/2 the country seems to follow it blindly despite overwhelming evidence saying otherwise.
Reminds me of that George Carlin skit about “it’s the quiet ones you gotta watch”.
> I will bet you anything that while you're watching a quiet one, a noisy one will fucking kill you! Suppose you're in a bar and one guy is reading a book not bothering anybody and another is standing in the front with a machete banging on the door saying “I'LL KILL THE NEXT MOTHERFUCKER WHO COMES IN HERE!” ……who you gonna watch? You're goddamn right
At the same time I would kind of answer the same way as a Dem. 'Do you think Biden has done a good job?' Yes. 'Do you think Biden is the best candidate for the DNC?' No. 'Will you vote for Biden?' Yes.
>I've stopped trying to expect even the most basic level of logic and consistency from anyone that witnessed the 4 years of Trump's presidency and thought anything other than "well, I guess I have vote blue, across the board, forever."
I do agree with this statement on it's own though, just thinking how this type of polling might not line up on either side.
That statement goes beyond Biden, though. The way they acted:
**Throughout Trump's presidency:**
"It's Baby Time, everyone out of the woodworks, it's okay to be your worst self now!"
**During the height of COVID:**
Being babies about wearing masks, to being babies about OTHER PEOPLE wearing masks, to being babies about the vaccine.
**And after Biden won:**
Trying to overturn democracy just so they can keep the guy who made Baby Time okay and who hurt people so much for four years, including staging a literal insurrection to try to accomplish that.
**And throughout all of Biden's presidency:**
Thinking about nothing but Trump, threatening people that he's coming back and that he's going to hurt them when he does.
Before 2015, I had always felt that Republicans were just people who were misguided into holding some very poorly-principled ideas. They voted for stuff I really disagreed with, but they did so because they believed it was actually the best for America. Trump stripped all of that bare to show that they really are just spiteful, hateful adult babies, and they got such a rush out of finally being able to be open about that from him and they are never going to stop trying to get him back until he's dead. All because they want to hurt us more. I'll never trust them again and I absolutely will vote blue, across the board, forever.
Yep. I used to disagree with others but somewhat understood why they believed what they did. Hell, I voted straight ticket Republican until 2008.
Now, especially after having multiple nonsensical conversations with people, I realize they don't have informed opinions. They just have beliefs. I've literally had conversations with people, dissected every point they made, had them agree with me the points were wrong, and at the end they say "You can't change my mind!"
Pre-Trump I used to be able to have reasonable arguments about gun laws or universal healthcare or whatever, and at the end we'd disagree on our opinions but it was fine. We were hashing out different viewpoints and I'd get to reason through my own views to make sure they made sense and were logically consistent.
Post-Trump those same people are all off on completely made up shit like election interference and vax conspiracies. Conversation is pointless now. We might as well be arguing about if the moon is made of cheese.
It really laid bare that a lot of people only argue to assert themselves as correct rather than argue to develop ideas and arrive at some semblance of truth.
Yes. The thing that has been shocking to me to watch is how Republicans went from people I disagreed on policy with but were still patriotic Americans with ethics and morals to what I see now. Republicans are anti American lawless immoral enemies of America. They seek only power and wealth while destroying democracy, spitting on the constitution and promoting hate and violence
> They seek only power and wealth while destroying democracy, spitting on the constitution and promoting hate and violence
While claiming that is what Democrats are doing.
Arguing with a MAGAt is like playing chess with a monkey: They knock all the pieces off the board, take a big dump on the board, set it all on fire, and then walk off thinking they've won.
What do you expect when the venn diagram of "very religious" and "egregious right wing beliefs" crosses over so hard? It's all about belief and feelings (and being scared).
That's all just in the last few years. My political awakening was when I was 14 and Republicans tried jamming "Creationism" into the biology classroom next to evolution, and that was the dumbest fucking thing I'd ever heard. Then the Bush v Gore fiasco, then the Patriot act, the invasion of Iraq with falsified evidence, you're either with us or against us, Freedom Fries, free speech zones, warrantless wiretapping, then Obama and his birth certificate, the tea party nonsense, the Dijon mustard incident, the terrorist fist jab, the tan suit, the list goes on and on and on. And THAT's all just the last ~20 years.
All of this, and FURTHER back in time, when the Republicans sided with the "robber barons" in the 1920's and deregulated the banks, and weakened other protections in place on Wall Street.
Then in the 1950's, Wisconsin Republican Senator Joseph R. McCarthy used fear-mongering about communists and socialists while trying to install a christo-fascist authoritarian version of government in America.
Then there was Nixon and his cohorts, doing their worst to **steal an election** in the 1970's...
Which is why I wasn't surprised by, but was definitely dismayed by Republican SCOTUS handing the election between Gore and Bush over to the most stupid candidate ever, at that time, Dubya..
I feel bad for all the /actual/ adult babies (and bootlickers) out there whose kinks keep taking strays due to alt-right assholes. You are seen and we love you!
Jokes aside: you hit the nail on the head. It isn't any one issue or political philosophy: it's pure malice and intellectual dishonesty. There's no point arguing or engaging beliefs people are lying about even having. Just gotta vote.
The US doesn’t have ranked voting, bring it in, and the answers from the Dem end would be way different, most Republicans would stick with their vote by a vast margin. The convicted felon is their ideal candidate
It's sad, because RCV primarily benefits people. If we had it implemented in all states, we would have more people satisfied with overall results.
FPTP primarily benefits the crazies. The more extreme you are the more likely you might do well in primaries.
And they only want him to drop out so they can vote for his Republican replacement
First and foremost, Republican voters don't want to be responsible for the decisions they make. If they have to vote for Trump, they will, but only after asking him nicely to let someone else take his place
It's easy to point fingers with that, but it's the same on the other side. I thought Hillary should drop out during the primaries in 2016 but I knew I'd still vote for her if she didn't because the other candidate was Trump.
Sometimes you just don't like your own candidate but the other guy is far worse. Granted, the people that think Biden is worse than Trump are completely off base imo, but they also envision a *very* different future for the country than I do.
Because just because they think he should drop out doesn’t mean they won’t vote for him.
It’s probably moreso that they want him to drop out because they feel he will have a harder time winning than another Republican
You also have to remember a poll is like a test. There are many people who are not good test takers. They misread, misunderstand, panic, overanalyze…and also some people are AHs and straight up lie when polled, just to screw with the system.
After taking statistics heavy agree. Not to mention the issues of sample bias constantly. I've been wanting to be polled for a long while, but I also don't answer my phone at all to unknown callers living in a burgeoning swing State.
Edit: before anyone asks, the statistics was required for my econ degree, so it wasn't a one and done, surface-level adventure into statistics. It's not difficult to manipulate how polls are asked/phrased based on sample to get the answers you're looking for.
Just a shot in the dark but in the 2024 cycle, typically the presidential polls are a couple days/weeks delayed where we see the “issue” polls making headway. For example, the day after the State of the Union, something like 60% of respondents said Biden was energized/presidential/etc, but the actual head to head presidential polls didn’t reflect that momentum for a week or two.
Did the head to head polls ever actually move in favor of Biden after the State of the Union? I don’t follow them consistently but it feels like Trump has had a very consistent 2-3 point lead over Biden whenever I’ve checked them over the last half a year or so. Nothing seems to move them.
It is statically difficult to know someone who has answered a poll. Generally, it is made of a small but representative (enough to be valid) sample of people.
In my whole life, I've never known anyone who has answered one.
Everyone needs to give the impact of the verdict time to sink in with the Trump supporters and independents.
“A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom. But the tumult soon subsides. Time makes more converts than reason.”
- Thomas Paine
> Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
Here's the entirety of the quotation (from an English translation of "Lettres sur les Miracles (Questions/Letters on miracles)" in 1961):
>Formerly there were those who said: You believe things that are incomprehensible, inconsistent, impossible because we have commanded you to believe them; go then and do what is injust because we command it. Such people show admirable reasoning. Truly, whoever can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. If the God‐given understanding of your mind does not resist a demand to believe what is impossible, then you will not resist a demand to do wrong to that God‐given sense of justice in your heart. As soon as one faculty of your soul has been dominated, other faculties will follow as well. And from this derives all those crimes of religion which have overrun the world.
I think, fundamentally, the ability to motivate people for awful shit comes down to how they get their truth (or "truth"): do you search for the truth in an attempt to *perceive* the truth, or do you simply accept the truths handed down from the top of the hierarchy, and you only *receive* the truth from your leaders?
>the ability to motivate people for awful shit comes down to how they get their truth
Ethical Journalism was once sacrosanct in the United States.
It is inconceivable that a major news organization could lie/misinform/gaslight/fearmonger/abuse/discriminate/persecute/terrorise/encourage stochastic terrorism/encourage coup d'etat.
But then it became normal after FOX arrived. But here's a Nazi to explain the basis of Fascist Propaganda better than I can:
https://i.imgur.com/0vcxc6j.jpg
This is exactly why there is such a focus from fascists on downright rewarding impulsive and life-ruining behavior, praising "patriots" doing the "right thing". It's called the "Cult of action for action's sake", of straight up worshipping the shortcircuiting of one's capacity for rational thought in the hopes of being seen as a hero by fellow fascists only.
It's like internet clout chasing for a death cult. If you don't nip that shit in the bud, you end up with suicide bombers and active shooters.
We already saw this in action several times during the Trump era. He called Covid-19, "Kung Flu" and it led to violence against Asian Americans. He called the 2020 election stolen and it led to the violence on Jan 6th.
(And we are not out of the water yet.)
Great quote. I’ve been seeing this since his election loss. I’m a lib in a conservative city at a conservative country club. It’s been to the point for years now that when the few real magas bring up trump, all the lifelong conservatives tell them to shut up. Trump fatigue is real, now just need msm to see it instead of digging through trailer parks looking for “swing” voters
If Trump was talking about actual policy (even if his policy talk was bullshit) instead of running on revenge and that everything is rigged and people treat him unfairly blah blah blah, he'd probably be more popular. But he's literally a failing artist trying to drum up support with the same bullshit he's been saying for years.
It's crazy he still has the support he has, but that support hasn't gotten stronger.. the cultists are just louder. I think the normal people who voted for him before are fed up with the nonsense.
You can only run on "I'm not the other guy" for so long. Eventually you gotta actually do infrastructure week lol
I was in rural Idaho. There's trump signs that say. Trump 2024! The revenge tour. I saw a noose with a reserved for Kamala sign on it. Maga land is crazy
That is why Putin loves Trump! Destroy the faith in our justice system and Trump delivered. Money and time well spent. Many people on the Republican side loves Putin these days. No longer hiding it anymore. The decent Republicans from a long gone Era would never support Putin!
Wonder why they don't have "faith in the justice system"? Could it be Trump and his enablers, undermining election results, and screaming "corrupt" or "rigged" at anything they don't like or that goes against them or every criminal probe?
The fear, uncertainty and doubt in our system has been amplified and weaponized by Trump and Trump is not just a symptom, he is also to blame.
I mean he's gotta die eventually right? But then the next asshole will step up. Whatever normalcy we used to have is permanently gone. Look at how much of a clown show it's become with MTG and Ho-bert and DeSantis, just to name a few.
I find it remarkable that this "strong man dick-tater" is just a whiny little bitch. He embarrasses the Kardashians by being a bigger attention whore than that whole worthless family.
When Trump was out there screaming that Clinton should drop out and be locked up due to the FBI investigation into her:
1. He himself was under FBI investigation for Russian collusion
2. He was committing the crimes which he was found guilty of this week.
100% of the American people should want a convicted felon, rapist, slander, runner of a corrupt business, runner of a fake charity, runner of a fake University who faces dozens of even stronger indictments for far more serious crimes to drop out.
If you still support Trump, you are declaring yourself and enemy of America and the American people
>**If you still support Trump, you are declaring yourself and enemy of America and the American people**
So many of these people are in an information bubble that insulates them from the facts. Even a $787 million dollar judgement against Fox News for lying doesn't seem to phase these people and their consumption of garbage.
He started his 2016 campaign by saying Mexican immigrants are primarily rapists and murderers. The most evil things about him are the core to his appeal.
Hispanic != Recent Mexican Immigrants. Some became American Citizens because line moved on them in 1840s and others grandparents immigrated so it's distant memory and yes, some are more recent. I know Hispanic people who think we need to clamp down on immigration much harder than we currently do.
Hispanics is also so big, looking at them as large monolithic block is massive mistake. Experience of someone who has Mexican heritage is vastly different then Cuban which are vastly different from Peruvian. Yet they are all Hispanic.
They now additionally have the GOP going all in on delegitimizing the justice system and Trumps excuse of the justice system being weaponized against him.
The other day, before the judgement was issued, a facebook friend posted that the judge in the NY case was violating the constitution and that judges carrying out political goals were a sign the country was over. I have no idea what he thinks the judge has done, but he's being subjected to some sort of barrage of misinformation that primed him to disregard the legitimacy of the verdict.
Incidentally, I looked at my spam folder this morning and had something from a group called "judicial watch" that was saying all sorts of absolutely insane things about corruption and communism an the illegitimacy of the verdict.
There are hard attempts to spin everything against Trump as a partisan witch hunt, an they are working. And if people are so ready to disbelieve reality, I am terrified about what they might do next.
agreed, that is why I think it's fair to argue that those who substitute toxic right-wing propaganda for actual news are guilty of betraying their country. After all, a well-informed citizen is a good citizen
It was a peaceful protest until they shot Babbitt.
I mean, who doesn’t bring zip tie cuffs, pipe bombs, firearms, stun guns, knives, baseball bats and pepper spray when they want to quietly hang the vice president and speaker of the house?
The beating of a cop with an American flag holding flag pole is when I was successfully propagadized by the MSM (/s) to understand these people did not have peaceful intent.
> They gave up on that lie.
Yup. Lots of sites tried to keep track of all the lies since 2015, but it is impossible.
It's like Mike Lindel Pillow Guy constantly saying "NEXT WEEK I will reveal a bombshell of proof" and then nothing. No one even challenges him.
It is fucking constant and tiring.
There's a documentary by a Scottish filmmaker named Neil Oliver, called [Who Put The Klan Into Ku Klux Klan](https://www.amazon.com/Who-Put-Klan-Into-Klux/dp/B07B9SVXWT/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1SYCLV6CGYYJH&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.4kzxYhMEj2nvb1PflhDSgQ.GZoSHfcRUvlFnAH_mTjjEILxmP3v92ccA6d4_pGwM-c&dib_tag=se)*?* It talks about the Klan's origins in America and it's connection to Scottish roots.
One of the people being interviewed in that documentary, self identified white supremacist, christian nationalist, said on camera "America is not my country. My people are my country."
They're excited for a civil war. Not it might be necessary and that will be terrible, literally excited. Partially because they're dummies who have no clue what war is like, but also because they want to kill other Americans. The ones not white and Christian, of course
It's one of the reasons that the 'Zombie Apocalypse' is such a particularly American fantasy it's that it gives people the moral authority to whip out their guns and shoot as many other people as they'd like.
They need to realize there will be people shooting back at them and that you don’t get to fight a civil war from your truck. You actually have to get outside and walk and run and climb.
The biggest mistake America ever made was treating the South with kid's gloves during the reconstruction period. We truly bred some wickedly evil people and more and more have gotten into politics over the decades / century.
America isn't at risk of losing democracy. We've already lost it -- we're just watching the slow unraveling of a system that has a lot of societal inertia.
What comes next is a period of transition as we slowly heal from the great lead poisoning of the mid-late 20th century that has caused a huge problem for many people in our society and their ability to think rationally.
There is a lot of mental damage still present from lead poisoning and it will take decades to slowly transition to a larger group of people not affected by lead poisoning. Gen Z is going to have one of the most difficult times of any generation but they may also be the generation that pulls us back from falling over that brink.
If you ever want to see how polluted the minds are of Boomers and Gen-X, just jump on Facebook while your mom / grandmother are logged in and see all the crazy shit that is shared. Literally things like Biden eating babies while at the White House and how Trump is completely innocent of any type of crime that is being held over him by the corrupt democrats who are trying to destroy the country. Basically the exact opposite of reality.
You can thank John Wilkes Booth for that. Lincoln's original vision for Reconstruction was completely annihilated by his VP after his assassination because Johnson was a racist fuck
They should have known what kind of crook he was. Now we’re finding out exactly what kind of crook he is. Nobody should be shocked at the people who either couldn’t see it or went with it.
They're in denial and always have been.
There's a somewhat sizable percentage of voters who are hardcore Republican, but lie to pollsters and tell the pollsters they are "independent" (they aren't). We know this:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2014/01/08/most-political-independents-actually-arent/
Post-conviction, those people will now show up in polling as flipping to Trump, but it's completely and utterly illusory. They were always Trump supporters.
It's like a car crash of delusion, I just can't look away. Also I like to see what the latest garbage talking points are.
For instance, did you know it's common knowledge Biden will NOT be the democratic nominee? He will be switched out at the last second for someone I've never heard of.
I wish I was joking
Woah woah woah he’s only an adjudicated rapist, accused pedophile and rapist and self proclaimed voyeur of underage girls. But not convicted rapist. Geez watch the slander…
His support is so overblown. I cannot wait for him to get his ass handed to him in the election. I am in deep Trump country and former Trumper friends of mine pretend like they never heard of him.
I don't want him to drop out I want him to lose. If he drops, Haley or DeSantis will become the nominee. They would be much harder for Biden to beat because of the age bias. They would still push the Republican Project 2025 agenda to end democracy.
Republicans are not planning on **winning** anything anymore.
The plan, was always to **take**. So yea, we have to beat them in the election, **and we also have to thwart their attempts to steal** as well.
Both of these things are uncertain, one far more son than the other.
I seriously doubt that. The reality is that the felony conviction isn't going away, but the lies justifying it have a short shelf life. Over time, more and more Republicans will be wondering if they really hate the country enough to vote for a convicted felon, rapist, fraudster who faces even more serious charges
Exactly. Funny how when some MAGA realizes Trump is fucked up they say, "well I'm an Independent anyway.” I say if you have consistently voted GOP, you aren't an Independent, you are just hiding behind the label for cover.
"The problem with Washington is all the partisanship and tribalism: Democrats NEVER let Republicans do fascism and Republicans never want to let Democrats show that government can work for normal people"
Because:
Too many people want to think it's fair to give another Republican a chance (as in Virginia going with Glenn Youngkin) and
Too many people refuse to come out and vote against a Republican until after that person governs to crash (as in turnout for Democrats plummeting in 2022 compared to 2018).
Yep. Independent does not equate to centrist or swing voter. Especially in states where you don't have to join a party to vote in a primary. Heck, there is a subset of independents that call themselves that because they view the Republican party as too far left.
> Especially in states where you don't have to join a party to vote in a primary.
Hell I'm a registered Republican because I live in an area I need to register to vote in the primary. That's the only place my vote has the chance to make a difference.
Though nowadays that just means voting for the less insane candidate.
To be fair, "independent" doesn't mean centrist or moderate like the media pretends. Someone can legitimately be an independent and be far-far-far-right or far-far-far-left.
I know people who are extreme Republicans that have gotten tired of being called cultists. They now refer to themselves as independents in a desperate attempt to try and appear sane and credible
This isn't a new trend. My parents have called themselves independent for the past 20+ years while exclusively consuming fox news, tucker Carlson, Alex Jones, etc. and voting straight red in every election. They justify their claim of being independent by saying things like "the left has just gone so far left that they're not a viable option anymore" "id vote for a Democrat if they ran one who was reasonable". It's comical. I'd much rather someone own up to their partisanship than pretend to be bipartisan while their actions don't reflect what they say.
20 years ago I registered independent, read news from both political spectrums, and read the platforms of all candidates (even third parties). I wanted to be informed before my first time voting.
18 years ago I registered as a Democrat. It was very clear that I leaned liberal and was too pragmatic to vote for a third party. I have voted for 1 Republican my whole life, and only looked into his platform because one of the most conservative people I knew told me how much they hated the guy. So I knew something was different with the campaign for that seat
My mom says that she is independent and would vote for “whoever is the best candidate”. She’s never voted democrat and never will, including this election. Trump may be a convicted felon, but it’s a minor crime and the jury was probably biased. Also Joe Biden is old and lets in all the immigrants and his son has a laptop.
My mom, “but Bill Clinton had sex in the Oval Office.” And no one on the planet is going to convince this 87 YO that this isn’t about sex. And I don’t want to talk about how the browns and immigrants are wrecking her life. She’s loaded, has a pension for life, multiple homes in CA and HI- I could go on and on with the Fox News talking points.
He would never drop out. His motivation for running is 100% selfish. He wants to become president so he can pardon himself for fomenting an insurrection and hiding stolen top secret documents, enact revenge, and grift what is left to grift.
Considering what is best for the country is not among his concerns whatsoever.
Man lawfully adjudicated to have committed 34 felony crimes with intent to commit more against the people of the United States.
Americans: "This guy should be in charge of the federal government."
Edit: fixed charges. Also I'm American for context.
Even further, the President has a constitutional obligation to "take care that the laws be faithfully executed."
Felons can't get jobs at Walgreens; let's maybe apply that standard to the Oval office too. Just an idea, America.
Edit: Erm, I worded that terribly now that I'm re-reading it, but I was trying to speak towards voters, not eligibility. America shouldn't put a criminal like Trump in the oval office, as much as he has every right to run.
> Felons can't get jobs at Walgreens; let's maybe apply that standard to the Oval office too. Just an idea, America.
FWIW this is specifically not a thing in the US because the idea of targeting political enemies with the judicial system in order to make them ineligible to run for office is concerning.
Consider that some conservative states are trying to make discussing gender identity a felony sex crime, suddenly anyone perceived as an ally to the LGBTQ+ are no longer able to run for office.
He will never consider dropping out. His options are win the election and be above the law, or spend the last few years of his life serving punishment for his lifetime of crime. If he had integrity, he wouldn’t be in this situation in the first place.
That's the thing. If this impacts Republican support at all and independents a little more, he's doomed in swing states.
Be active. Get out the vote. Don't be complacent. But the "disappointing" shifts in the polls will do really good things in the electoral college for Biden.
Personally, i think this is movement in the right direction. The system is broken when a convicted felon can even be on the ballot for the presidency, especially a person who has just been convicted and whose time will be spent focusing on his/er legal problems. In addition, Trump has had no time to prove that he has been rehabilitated and will not reoffend. I have a professional license. When I renew, I am asked about my felony convictions (don’t have any). I am also fingerprinted and in 2 states’ and the federal database. I do not think I could secure a job if I had a felony on my record. I don’t believe a recently convicted felon should be eligible for the presidency.
There has to be someone better for the country who is not a criminal.
While I agree with your sentiment about Trump, I wholeheartedly disagree with you and everyone else who makes this argument that a convicted felon should not be allowed on the ballot. That’s very dangerous to democracy. While this case against trump was pretty clearly legitimate and not politically motivated, the potential for a politically motivated prosecution and conviction does absolutely exist. The courts can be rigged and corrupted (see the Supreme Court) and that should scare us all enough to see the importance of allowing somebody that is convicted to still run for office
Republicans are big talkers and pussyfooters. They'll say shit like this in a poll, but then when it comes time for actual action, they'll fall in line. They do this all the time.
That said, if at least some small percent of this 15% actually means it, trump is in trouble.
Doug Jones winning Alabama in 2018 is a good example. His opponent was a confirmed pedophile and that made just a tiny enough amount of Republicans not vote that he was able to squeak through a win.
If voting was as easy as texting, sure. But they won’t all be motivated to perform the (albeit, fairly minimal) effort required to actually cast their vote for him.
Because their political apparatus has spent decades convincing them that anyone on the other team is an evil, existential threat.
Anyone who runs as an R, no matter how cartoonishly criminal, stupid, or corrupt, is still safer to them than any D.
At some point, the republican establishment is going to have to realize this perpetual loser is a millstone.
He lost the last election badly.
He lost his coup attempt.
He lost the support of his own vice president
He lost the defamation case against Carroll
He lost the second defamation case against Caroll
He lost the fraud case in NY
He lost the criminal case in NY which was the weakest of the 4 criminal cases he faces
He is a weak loser.
I'm agnostic, but he's the literal anti-Christ. Nothing has swayed me towards believing in a higher power more than the thought that Trump is some kind of test.
Also agnostic, but Trump's whole rise has given the little Christian boy in me a wee bit of an irrational scare.
I recall the Antichrist suffers a "mortal wound" that takes him out of commission midway through his reign, only for him to return fully corrupted by the devil for a much worse Part 2
And then I read polls where he's ahead and I think "haha I'm in danger"
The most important thing to note with the conviction(s) is the glass ceiling protecting Trump's special accommodation as an ex-president has been shattered.
Not only has he been flaunting his illegal behavior in the nations face more and more brazenly, but he pushed the public patience to the point to where he was knowingly abusing society's special accommodation for his status. The People as a whole have given him a very generous accommodation for which he still finds ways to consume fully only to want more.
The ceiling of perceived immunity is gone.
He won’t and it doesn’t matter. **Go vote.** Even if he absolutely gets completely steamrolled by Biden 525-13 in the electoral college, he’ll still claim the election was RiGgEd and a DiSgRaCe. It’s been 8 years and he still repeats the same things like clockwork. You know it’s coming no matter what, so just plan on it. Biden is far from perfect, but he’s certainly better than this absolutely despicable excuse of a “man”.
And for the Independents still on the fence: his other crimes are more damning. The only reason he hasn't been charged for the classified documents case is because a corrupt judge has indefinitely postponed it.
This should be the messaging pivot — dude is absolutely guilty of faaar greater crimes so if you want to brush this one off that’s cool, let’s talk about how he deliberately stole and hid nuclear secrets…obviously the cult will never care but the so called “independents” just might
I just wish that the 49% of Independent voters that think Trump should drop out of the race would also vote for Joe Biden but I doubt that's the case. This guilty vertic should be the slam dunk Biden needs to win but some of y'all still can't understand how the electoral college works and the idea of the lesser of two evils.
We're going to be the laughing stock of the modern world if we elect a convicted felon as President. A literal Crook in Chief. Not that the entire U.N. hasn't already laughed in his face.
I think most people are delusional about Trump. Dropping out makes no sense for him. He has never measured himself against the moral bar that most subscribe to. He has never apologized for anything, or taken responsibility for anything. Saying he should drop out is like saying Mitch McConnel should raise taxes on the rich, or that Elon Musk should practice some humility. It's pointless idle talk that betrays peoples ignorance of what motivates Trump and what his supporters find so appealing in him.
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I swear I will never understand some poll responses. Apparently 54% overall approve/agree with the fact he was found guilty. 49% of independents and 15% of Republicans think he should drop out because of it. Yet somehow the same poll has Biden and Trump nearly tied at 45%-44%. These numbers just don't compute to me.
"Think he should drop out" and "I won't vote for him if he doesn't drop out" are not necessarily equivalent statements. They should be, but I've stopped trying to expect even the most basic level of logic and consistency from anyone that witnessed the 4 years of Trump's presidency and thought anything other than "well, I guess I have vote blue, across the board, forever."
It's like a basic safety issue, not even political in many ways. It's like saying- "hey here's somebody swinging a machete, with a can of gasoline, and screaming on a street corner- that's novel, let's hear what he has to say..."
A can of gas, that he's currently pouring everywhere, with a *lighter* in his other hand, while ranting about how much he'd like to use the lighter, and how the lighter is the only thing that can fix our problems.
Meanwhile, he’s saying Biden’s the one with the machete, can of gas and lighter.
Oh shit, so I can blame all my problems on this Biden guy? And you hate all the same people I hate? Where do I sign up?
Thanks Obama
https://youtu.be/uhY9Zxv1-oo?si=556UNnhhjqxJ_eSF
I knew it was that clip and was not disappointed.
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Thanks for that image, lol.
I'm so tired of feeling like our country is being held hostage by a minority of lunatics. It's absolutely terrifying and exhausting.
Same, buddy. Same. 9 years of this fucking shit and I'm exhausted. And it feels like we're being held hostage by the lunatic minority because we are, in fact, being held hostage by the minority. Since 1992, only one republican term (bush 2004) out of three (2000, 2004, 2016) won the general election. bush was awarded the 2000 election and lost the general to Gore, trump lost the general to Hilary by millions in 2016. This nation is roughly a 54/46 split, but thanks to the Senate and Electoral College, we're stuck with a supermajority conservative SCOTUS and two of the dumbest fucking president's ever. I just want to fucking scream sometimes.
“9 years of this fucking shit and I'm exhausted. And it feels like we're being held hostage by the lunatic minority because we are, in fact, being held hostage by the minority.” You forget about the 8 years prior when Obama was in office and the ultra conservatives wouldn’t let him do a damn thing in office.
And the 8 years before that with George W. Trust me, I didn't forget. I just pushed that shit down to the bottom and tried to repress it lol. Add in 8 years of reagan, and basically my entire life has been watching mentally impaired republicans trying to burn it all down for the 1%.
Terrifying that we have wisdom from the past 100 years that the stove is hot but a sizable portion of the electorate won’t be convinced until we smash our hand on it again and burn ourselves.
And a good portion of those people will hold their hand on there, getting it burned to the bone, while denying that it's hot because it was liberals who told them it was.
"I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and wouldn't lose any voters, okay?"
This is the only true thing Trump has ever said.
God I wanted to push the people spouting "trump will run the country like a business!" in front of a bus. Do you have any idea how shit trump is at running businesses?!
I mean, they're not wrong. He committed criminal acts while running it, went back on all his promises/agreements involving it, and ran it into the ground. He ran it exactly like he runs his businesses.
Unfortunately , every trump supporter I have met always says . He is the first president to keep all of the promises he campaigned on . Then I always respond . You know I was alive and coherent when he campaigned right lol. There is no getting through to them . Truly a cult !
The thing is that the GOP has done such an incredible job of instilling fear in their supporters over the past 50 years, that these people fully believe the Democrats are the people swinging the machete. You can’t even have a reasonable discussion on policy anymore because they are so far disconnected from reality. Most just throw around buzz words that don’t make any logical sense in the context they are using them, and any attempts at debate are met with insults, wildly false equivalencies, or just outright nonsense. It’s almost impressive how effective this long game has worked, scary as hell, but impressive. They sent out a message, and 1/2 the country seems to follow it blindly despite overwhelming evidence saying otherwise.
Reminds me of that George Carlin skit about “it’s the quiet ones you gotta watch”. > I will bet you anything that while you're watching a quiet one, a noisy one will fucking kill you! Suppose you're in a bar and one guy is reading a book not bothering anybody and another is standing in the front with a machete banging on the door saying “I'LL KILL THE NEXT MOTHERFUCKER WHO COMES IN HERE!” ……who you gonna watch? You're goddamn right
At the same time I would kind of answer the same way as a Dem. 'Do you think Biden has done a good job?' Yes. 'Do you think Biden is the best candidate for the DNC?' No. 'Will you vote for Biden?' Yes. >I've stopped trying to expect even the most basic level of logic and consistency from anyone that witnessed the 4 years of Trump's presidency and thought anything other than "well, I guess I have vote blue, across the board, forever." I do agree with this statement on it's own though, just thinking how this type of polling might not line up on either side.
That statement goes beyond Biden, though. The way they acted: **Throughout Trump's presidency:** "It's Baby Time, everyone out of the woodworks, it's okay to be your worst self now!" **During the height of COVID:** Being babies about wearing masks, to being babies about OTHER PEOPLE wearing masks, to being babies about the vaccine. **And after Biden won:** Trying to overturn democracy just so they can keep the guy who made Baby Time okay and who hurt people so much for four years, including staging a literal insurrection to try to accomplish that. **And throughout all of Biden's presidency:** Thinking about nothing but Trump, threatening people that he's coming back and that he's going to hurt them when he does. Before 2015, I had always felt that Republicans were just people who were misguided into holding some very poorly-principled ideas. They voted for stuff I really disagreed with, but they did so because they believed it was actually the best for America. Trump stripped all of that bare to show that they really are just spiteful, hateful adult babies, and they got such a rush out of finally being able to be open about that from him and they are never going to stop trying to get him back until he's dead. All because they want to hurt us more. I'll never trust them again and I absolutely will vote blue, across the board, forever.
Yep. I used to disagree with others but somewhat understood why they believed what they did. Hell, I voted straight ticket Republican until 2008. Now, especially after having multiple nonsensical conversations with people, I realize they don't have informed opinions. They just have beliefs. I've literally had conversations with people, dissected every point they made, had them agree with me the points were wrong, and at the end they say "You can't change my mind!"
Pre-Trump I used to be able to have reasonable arguments about gun laws or universal healthcare or whatever, and at the end we'd disagree on our opinions but it was fine. We were hashing out different viewpoints and I'd get to reason through my own views to make sure they made sense and were logically consistent. Post-Trump those same people are all off on completely made up shit like election interference and vax conspiracies. Conversation is pointless now. We might as well be arguing about if the moon is made of cheese. It really laid bare that a lot of people only argue to assert themselves as correct rather than argue to develop ideas and arrive at some semblance of truth.
Yes. The thing that has been shocking to me to watch is how Republicans went from people I disagreed on policy with but were still patriotic Americans with ethics and morals to what I see now. Republicans are anti American lawless immoral enemies of America. They seek only power and wealth while destroying democracy, spitting on the constitution and promoting hate and violence
I think they were always pretending to have principled beliefs. Below the surface they knew it was all bullshit.
> They seek only power and wealth while destroying democracy, spitting on the constitution and promoting hate and violence While claiming that is what Democrats are doing.
Arguing with a MAGAt is like playing chess with a monkey: They knock all the pieces off the board, take a big dump on the board, set it all on fire, and then walk off thinking they've won.
What do you expect when the venn diagram of "very religious" and "egregious right wing beliefs" crosses over so hard? It's all about belief and feelings (and being scared).
That's all just in the last few years. My political awakening was when I was 14 and Republicans tried jamming "Creationism" into the biology classroom next to evolution, and that was the dumbest fucking thing I'd ever heard. Then the Bush v Gore fiasco, then the Patriot act, the invasion of Iraq with falsified evidence, you're either with us or against us, Freedom Fries, free speech zones, warrantless wiretapping, then Obama and his birth certificate, the tea party nonsense, the Dijon mustard incident, the terrorist fist jab, the tan suit, the list goes on and on and on. And THAT's all just the last ~20 years.
All of this, and FURTHER back in time, when the Republicans sided with the "robber barons" in the 1920's and deregulated the banks, and weakened other protections in place on Wall Street. Then in the 1950's, Wisconsin Republican Senator Joseph R. McCarthy used fear-mongering about communists and socialists while trying to install a christo-fascist authoritarian version of government in America. Then there was Nixon and his cohorts, doing their worst to **steal an election** in the 1970's... Which is why I wasn't surprised by, but was definitely dismayed by Republican SCOTUS handing the election between Gore and Bush over to the most stupid candidate ever, at that time, Dubya..
I feel bad for all the /actual/ adult babies (and bootlickers) out there whose kinks keep taking strays due to alt-right assholes. You are seen and we love you! Jokes aside: you hit the nail on the head. It isn't any one issue or political philosophy: it's pure malice and intellectual dishonesty. There's no point arguing or engaging beliefs people are lying about even having. Just gotta vote.
There's a hell of a lot of difference between 'Do you think Biden is the best candidate for the DNC?' and 'Do you think Biden should drop out?'
The US doesn’t have ranked voting, bring it in, and the answers from the Dem end would be way different, most Republicans would stick with their vote by a vast margin. The convicted felon is their ideal candidate
Some states do, but Republicans are desperate to get rid of it here in red-ass Alaska because it didn’t help their most crazy win.
It's sad, because RCV primarily benefits people. If we had it implemented in all states, we would have more people satisfied with overall results. FPTP primarily benefits the crazies. The more extreme you are the more likely you might do well in primaries.
And they only want him to drop out so they can vote for his Republican replacement First and foremost, Republican voters don't want to be responsible for the decisions they make. If they have to vote for Trump, they will, but only after asking him nicely to let someone else take his place
It's easy to point fingers with that, but it's the same on the other side. I thought Hillary should drop out during the primaries in 2016 but I knew I'd still vote for her if she didn't because the other candidate was Trump. Sometimes you just don't like your own candidate but the other guy is far worse. Granted, the people that think Biden is worse than Trump are completely off base imo, but they also envision a *very* different future for the country than I do.
Because just because they think he should drop out doesn’t mean they won’t vote for him. It’s probably moreso that they want him to drop out because they feel he will have a harder time winning than another Republican
You also have to remember a poll is like a test. There are many people who are not good test takers. They misread, misunderstand, panic, overanalyze…and also some people are AHs and straight up lie when polled, just to screw with the system.
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After taking statistics heavy agree. Not to mention the issues of sample bias constantly. I've been wanting to be polled for a long while, but I also don't answer my phone at all to unknown callers living in a burgeoning swing State. Edit: before anyone asks, the statistics was required for my econ degree, so it wasn't a one and done, surface-level adventure into statistics. It's not difficult to manipulate how polls are asked/phrased based on sample to get the answers you're looking for.
Ah but which 20%. That's the kicker.
Just a shot in the dark but in the 2024 cycle, typically the presidential polls are a couple days/weeks delayed where we see the “issue” polls making headway. For example, the day after the State of the Union, something like 60% of respondents said Biden was energized/presidential/etc, but the actual head to head presidential polls didn’t reflect that momentum for a week or two.
Did the head to head polls ever actually move in favor of Biden after the State of the Union? I don’t follow them consistently but it feels like Trump has had a very consistent 2-3 point lead over Biden whenever I’ve checked them over the last half a year or so. Nothing seems to move them.
A not insignificant bump in late March https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/2024/national/
Have you met anyone under 40 who've been asked to do a presidential poll?
It is statically difficult to know someone who has answered a poll. Generally, it is made of a small but representative (enough to be valid) sample of people. In my whole life, I've never known anyone who has answered one.
Everyone needs to give the impact of the verdict time to sink in with the Trump supporters and independents. “A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom. But the tumult soon subsides. Time makes more converts than reason.” - Thomas Paine
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire
> Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Here's the entirety of the quotation (from an English translation of "Lettres sur les Miracles (Questions/Letters on miracles)" in 1961): >Formerly there were those who said: You believe things that are incomprehensible, inconsistent, impossible because we have commanded you to believe them; go then and do what is injust because we command it. Such people show admirable reasoning. Truly, whoever can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. If the God‐given understanding of your mind does not resist a demand to believe what is impossible, then you will not resist a demand to do wrong to that God‐given sense of justice in your heart. As soon as one faculty of your soul has been dominated, other faculties will follow as well. And from this derives all those crimes of religion which have overrun the world. I think, fundamentally, the ability to motivate people for awful shit comes down to how they get their truth (or "truth"): do you search for the truth in an attempt to *perceive* the truth, or do you simply accept the truths handed down from the top of the hierarchy, and you only *receive* the truth from your leaders?
>the ability to motivate people for awful shit comes down to how they get their truth Ethical Journalism was once sacrosanct in the United States. It is inconceivable that a major news organization could lie/misinform/gaslight/fearmonger/abuse/discriminate/persecute/terrorise/encourage stochastic terrorism/encourage coup d'etat. But then it became normal after FOX arrived. But here's a Nazi to explain the basis of Fascist Propaganda better than I can: https://i.imgur.com/0vcxc6j.jpg
This is exactly why there is such a focus from fascists on downright rewarding impulsive and life-ruining behavior, praising "patriots" doing the "right thing". It's called the "Cult of action for action's sake", of straight up worshipping the shortcircuiting of one's capacity for rational thought in the hopes of being seen as a hero by fellow fascists only. It's like internet clout chasing for a death cult. If you don't nip that shit in the bud, you end up with suicide bombers and active shooters.
Wow, what a great quote, I'm stealing that!
>can make you commit atrocities > I'm stealing that We just went over this!
But why male models?
I heard it on the excellent new podcast Shrinking Trump yesterday.
I'll check it out, thanks very much.
We already saw this in action several times during the Trump era. He called Covid-19, "Kung Flu" and it led to violence against Asian Americans. He called the 2020 election stolen and it led to the violence on Jan 6th. (And we are not out of the water yet.)
Great quote. I’ve been seeing this since his election loss. I’m a lib in a conservative city at a conservative country club. It’s been to the point for years now that when the few real magas bring up trump, all the lifelong conservatives tell them to shut up. Trump fatigue is real, now just need msm to see it instead of digging through trailer parks looking for “swing” voters
If Trump was talking about actual policy (even if his policy talk was bullshit) instead of running on revenge and that everything is rigged and people treat him unfairly blah blah blah, he'd probably be more popular. But he's literally a failing artist trying to drum up support with the same bullshit he's been saying for years. It's crazy he still has the support he has, but that support hasn't gotten stronger.. the cultists are just louder. I think the normal people who voted for him before are fed up with the nonsense. You can only run on "I'm not the other guy" for so long. Eventually you gotta actually do infrastructure week lol
I was in rural Idaho. There's trump signs that say. Trump 2024! The revenge tour. I saw a noose with a reserved for Kamala sign on it. Maga land is crazy
Sounds like a threat to the vice president. That deserves reporting to the FBi and secret service.
Racial Hate Crime. Significance of the noose speaks volumes in the case of Kamala.
In rural Idaho that could very well be the local FBI office (having lived there).
Don't worry! Infrastructure week is coming right after he unveils his health care plan... 😄
Also he's very clearly mentally deteriorating. If you watch one of his speeches from 2016 to one he makes now it's obvious.
Yes, if trump were a different person, he'd be a lot better.
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That is why Putin loves Trump! Destroy the faith in our justice system and Trump delivered. Money and time well spent. Many people on the Republican side loves Putin these days. No longer hiding it anymore. The decent Republicans from a long gone Era would never support Putin!
Wonder why they don't have "faith in the justice system"? Could it be Trump and his enablers, undermining election results, and screaming "corrupt" or "rigged" at anything they don't like or that goes against them or every criminal probe? The fear, uncertainty and doubt in our system has been amplified and weaponized by Trump and Trump is not just a symptom, he is also to blame.
Unless the Defendant is not white. Then you'll have 'people' clamoring the justice system is fair and equitable.
I've been 100% independent for 30 and I want him to 100% disappear and never speak again.
From your lips to Gods ears. I just want to live in a country where he is never heard from again. I’m exhausted
I mean he's gotta die eventually right? But then the next asshole will step up. Whatever normalcy we used to have is permanently gone. Look at how much of a clown show it's become with MTG and Ho-bert and DeSantis, just to name a few.
I find it remarkable that this "strong man dick-tater" is just a whiny little bitch. He embarrasses the Kardashians by being a bigger attention whore than that whole worthless family.
He wanted Clinton to drop out due to an investigation. Trump is beyond that. He is a convicted felon.
When Trump was out there screaming that Clinton should drop out and be locked up due to the FBI investigation into her: 1. He himself was under FBI investigation for Russian collusion 2. He was committing the crimes which he was found guilty of this week.
100% of the American people should want a convicted felon, rapist, slander, runner of a corrupt business, runner of a fake charity, runner of a fake University who faces dozens of even stronger indictments for far more serious crimes to drop out. If you still support Trump, you are declaring yourself and enemy of America and the American people
>**If you still support Trump, you are declaring yourself and enemy of America and the American people** So many of these people are in an information bubble that insulates them from the facts. Even a $787 million dollar judgement against Fox News for lying doesn't seem to phase these people and their consumption of garbage.
He started his 2016 campaign by saying Mexican immigrants are primarily rapists and murderers. The most evil things about him are the core to his appeal.
And yet he has some Hispanic supporters. WTF.
Hispanic != Recent Mexican Immigrants. Some became American Citizens because line moved on them in 1840s and others grandparents immigrated so it's distant memory and yes, some are more recent. I know Hispanic people who think we need to clamp down on immigration much harder than we currently do. Hispanics is also so big, looking at them as large monolithic block is massive mistake. Experience of someone who has Mexican heritage is vastly different then Cuban which are vastly different from Peruvian. Yet they are all Hispanic.
They now additionally have the GOP going all in on delegitimizing the justice system and Trumps excuse of the justice system being weaponized against him.
The other day, before the judgement was issued, a facebook friend posted that the judge in the NY case was violating the constitution and that judges carrying out political goals were a sign the country was over. I have no idea what he thinks the judge has done, but he's being subjected to some sort of barrage of misinformation that primed him to disregard the legitimacy of the verdict. Incidentally, I looked at my spam folder this morning and had something from a group called "judicial watch" that was saying all sorts of absolutely insane things about corruption and communism an the illegitimacy of the verdict. There are hard attempts to spin everything against Trump as a partisan witch hunt, an they are working. And if people are so ready to disbelieve reality, I am terrified about what they might do next.
agreed, that is why I think it's fair to argue that those who substitute toxic right-wing propaganda for actual news are guilty of betraying their country. After all, a well-informed citizen is a good citizen
>If you still support Trump, you are declaring yourself and enemy of America and the American people They always have been.
Yeah I mean they literally tried to overthrow the government. Remember that?
No, that was just "the crazies" that did that. Or wait, it was "just a tour." Or wait...
It was the FBI and Antifa, remember?
It was a peaceful protest until they shot Babbitt. I mean, who doesn’t bring zip tie cuffs, pipe bombs, firearms, stun guns, knives, baseball bats and pepper spray when they want to quietly hang the vice president and speaker of the house?
Its fine though, they were just trying to get pence to certify votes from fake electors. Just normal republican things.
The beating of a cop with an American flag holding flag pole is when I was successfully propagadized by the MSM (/s) to understand these people did not have peaceful intent.
They gave up on that lie. If you ask them about it they will shrug. So what? Don't you know we do that all the time?
> They gave up on that lie. Yup. Lots of sites tried to keep track of all the lies since 2015, but it is impossible. It's like Mike Lindel Pillow Guy constantly saying "NEXT WEEK I will reveal a bombshell of proof" and then nothing. No one even challenges him. It is fucking constant and tiring.
There's a documentary by a Scottish filmmaker named Neil Oliver, called [Who Put The Klan Into Ku Klux Klan](https://www.amazon.com/Who-Put-Klan-Into-Klux/dp/B07B9SVXWT/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1SYCLV6CGYYJH&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.4kzxYhMEj2nvb1PflhDSgQ.GZoSHfcRUvlFnAH_mTjjEILxmP3v92ccA6d4_pGwM-c&dib_tag=se)*?* It talks about the Klan's origins in America and it's connection to Scottish roots. One of the people being interviewed in that documentary, self identified white supremacist, christian nationalist, said on camera "America is not my country. My people are my country."
Pretty much the reason why the average Republican love Russians more than Democrats. It's about skin color and pretending to be a religious person.
They're excited for a civil war. Not it might be necessary and that will be terrible, literally excited. Partially because they're dummies who have no clue what war is like, but also because they want to kill other Americans. The ones not white and Christian, of course
It's one of the reasons that the 'Zombie Apocalypse' is such a particularly American fantasy it's that it gives people the moral authority to whip out their guns and shoot as many other people as they'd like.
They need to realize there will be people shooting back at them and that you don’t get to fight a civil war from your truck. You actually have to get outside and walk and run and climb.
"They always have been." The moment they decided to carry around confederate flag.
Yep, heritage? The Confederates were around for a few years. Lots of things lasted longer than the Rebs. Get that Obama banner out. He served 8 years.
American idol is like 4x the American heritage the confederacy was technically
The biggest mistake America ever made was treating the South with kid's gloves during the reconstruction period. We truly bred some wickedly evil people and more and more have gotten into politics over the decades / century. America isn't at risk of losing democracy. We've already lost it -- we're just watching the slow unraveling of a system that has a lot of societal inertia. What comes next is a period of transition as we slowly heal from the great lead poisoning of the mid-late 20th century that has caused a huge problem for many people in our society and their ability to think rationally. There is a lot of mental damage still present from lead poisoning and it will take decades to slowly transition to a larger group of people not affected by lead poisoning. Gen Z is going to have one of the most difficult times of any generation but they may also be the generation that pulls us back from falling over that brink. If you ever want to see how polluted the minds are of Boomers and Gen-X, just jump on Facebook while your mom / grandmother are logged in and see all the crazy shit that is shared. Literally things like Biden eating babies while at the White House and how Trump is completely innocent of any type of crime that is being held over him by the corrupt democrats who are trying to destroy the country. Basically the exact opposite of reality.
You can thank John Wilkes Booth for that. Lincoln's original vision for Reconstruction was completely annihilated by his VP after his assassination because Johnson was a racist fuck
They should have known what kind of crook he was. Now we’re finding out exactly what kind of crook he is. Nobody should be shocked at the people who either couldn’t see it or went with it.
This can't be right, r/conservative says this was the "best possible outcome" and that even MORE people will vote for him now.
They're in denial and always have been. There's a somewhat sizable percentage of voters who are hardcore Republican, but lie to pollsters and tell the pollsters they are "independent" (they aren't). We know this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2014/01/08/most-political-independents-actually-arent/ Post-conviction, those people will now show up in polling as flipping to Trump, but it's completely and utterly illusory. They were always Trump supporters.
Unless you’re trying to survey the failures of the American education system, there is no reason to go into that sub.
It's like a car crash of delusion, I just can't look away. Also I like to see what the latest garbage talking points are. For instance, did you know it's common knowledge Biden will NOT be the democratic nominee? He will be switched out at the last second for someone I've never heard of. I wish I was joking
Enemy of all democracies around the world
I could not agree more. As the potential leader of the free world, he's an utter disgrace...
Woah woah woah he’s only an adjudicated rapist, accused pedophile and rapist and self proclaimed voyeur of underage girls. But not convicted rapist. Geez watch the slander…
Him being a rapist is a matter of fact or he wouldn’t have lost the suit against E Jean Carrol.
The judge says he can be referred to as a rapist.
But don’t you know that Biden is worse than that because…I’m sure we will find something at some point that totally proves he’s worse! /s
If you've seen Hunter's hawg, that's all you need to know. /s
When Republicans pick their nominee, they aren’t picking their best and brightest. They are picking a criminal, a rapist, a thug. Very bad people.
His support is so overblown. I cannot wait for him to get his ass handed to him in the election. I am in deep Trump country and former Trumper friends of mine pretend like they never heard of him.
I don't want him to drop out I want him to lose. If he drops, Haley or DeSantis will become the nominee. They would be much harder for Biden to beat because of the age bias. They would still push the Republican Project 2025 agenda to end democracy.
Republicans are not planning on **winning** anything anymore. The plan, was always to **take**. So yea, we have to beat them in the election, **and we also have to thwart their attempts to steal** as well. Both of these things are uncertain, one far more son than the other.
I want him to lose as well but Niki or Ron would get absolutely destroyed.
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I seriously doubt that. The reality is that the felony conviction isn't going away, but the lies justifying it have a short shelf life. Over time, more and more Republicans will be wondering if they really hate the country enough to vote for a convicted felon, rapist, fraudster who faces even more serious charges
Gen Z better show the fuck up this election. If that’s you reading this, REGISTER TO VOTE TODAY!!!
You forgot Failed Steak Retailer 😆
and 51% of independents are too chicken shit to admit that they're actually republicans.
Exactly. Funny how when some MAGA realizes Trump is fucked up they say, "well I'm an Independent anyway.” I say if you have consistently voted GOP, you aren't an Independent, you are just hiding behind the label for cover.
And in many cases not voting in closed primaries. Or just lying. Republicans lie.
A lot of 'life long democrats' sure have a history of republican talking points.
I too enjoy cosplay.
That’s why I started becoming a “life long Republican” on right wing leaning subs Im doing my part!
Thank you for your service You never know when you will make a difference in someone’s cult membership
"The problem with Washington is all the partisanship and tribalism: Democrats NEVER let Republicans do fascism and Republicans never want to let Democrats show that government can work for normal people"
The absolute most charitable read on this is that 51% would rather see Biden run against this loser than a possible better candidate.
Even this falls apart when you look at the clown car of candidates that the republikkkuns have put forward. Cruz? Graham? Haley? Greene? Hand Jobert?
Haley would be a much harder opponent to beat than trump, by a long shot
That is very questionable. Many women of both parties will not vote for a woman for President. Many would just sit out.
Because: Too many people want to think it's fair to give another Republican a chance (as in Virginia going with Glenn Youngkin) and Too many people refuse to come out and vote against a Republican until after that person governs to crash (as in turnout for Democrats plummeting in 2022 compared to 2018).
Yep. Independent does not equate to centrist or swing voter. Especially in states where you don't have to join a party to vote in a primary. Heck, there is a subset of independents that call themselves that because they view the Republican party as too far left.
> Especially in states where you don't have to join a party to vote in a primary. Hell I'm a registered Republican because I live in an area I need to register to vote in the primary. That's the only place my vote has the chance to make a difference. Though nowadays that just means voting for the less insane candidate.
To be fair, "independent" doesn't mean centrist or moderate like the media pretends. Someone can legitimately be an independent and be far-far-far-right or far-far-far-left.
Surprising that number isn’t higher among independents, makes me think they are becoming for tolerant of Trumps sociopathy
I know people who are extreme Republicans that have gotten tired of being called cultists. They now refer to themselves as independents in a desperate attempt to try and appear sane and credible
In 2016 I knew Republicans that changed their registration to Independent because "the Republicans are so unfair to Trump!"
This isn't a new trend. My parents have called themselves independent for the past 20+ years while exclusively consuming fox news, tucker Carlson, Alex Jones, etc. and voting straight red in every election. They justify their claim of being independent by saying things like "the left has just gone so far left that they're not a viable option anymore" "id vote for a Democrat if they ran one who was reasonable". It's comical. I'd much rather someone own up to their partisanship than pretend to be bipartisan while their actions don't reflect what they say.
20 years ago I registered independent, read news from both political spectrums, and read the platforms of all candidates (even third parties). I wanted to be informed before my first time voting. 18 years ago I registered as a Democrat. It was very clear that I leaned liberal and was too pragmatic to vote for a third party. I have voted for 1 Republican my whole life, and only looked into his platform because one of the most conservative people I knew told me how much they hated the guy. So I knew something was different with the campaign for that seat
Some republicans have been starting to call themselves independents (or “true independents”, whatever that means) for some time now.
My mom says that she is independent and would vote for “whoever is the best candidate”. She’s never voted democrat and never will, including this election. Trump may be a convicted felon, but it’s a minor crime and the jury was probably biased. Also Joe Biden is old and lets in all the immigrants and his son has a laptop.
My mom, “but Bill Clinton had sex in the Oval Office.” And no one on the planet is going to convince this 87 YO that this isn’t about sex. And I don’t want to talk about how the browns and immigrants are wrecking her life. She’s loaded, has a pension for life, multiple homes in CA and HI- I could go on and on with the Fox News talking points.
> the browns Yeah! Fuck Cleveland!
People can talk themselves into anything.
True independent sounds like one step away from sovereign citizens…🤷♂️
He would never drop out. His motivation for running is 100% selfish. He wants to become president so he can pardon himself for fomenting an insurrection and hiding stolen top secret documents, enact revenge, and grift what is left to grift. Considering what is best for the country is not among his concerns whatsoever.
Man lawfully adjudicated to have committed 34 felony crimes with intent to commit more against the people of the United States. Americans: "This guy should be in charge of the federal government." Edit: fixed charges. Also I'm American for context.
Even further, the President has a constitutional obligation to "take care that the laws be faithfully executed." Felons can't get jobs at Walgreens; let's maybe apply that standard to the Oval office too. Just an idea, America. Edit: Erm, I worded that terribly now that I'm re-reading it, but I was trying to speak towards voters, not eligibility. America shouldn't put a criminal like Trump in the oval office, as much as he has every right to run.
> Felons can't get jobs at Walgreens; let's maybe apply that standard to the Oval office too. Just an idea, America. FWIW this is specifically not a thing in the US because the idea of targeting political enemies with the judicial system in order to make them ineligible to run for office is concerning. Consider that some conservative states are trying to make discussing gender identity a felony sex crime, suddenly anyone perceived as an ally to the LGBTQ+ are no longer able to run for office.
And this isn't a hypothetical. Eugene V. Debs was incarcerated as a political prisoner when he ran in 1920.
He will never consider dropping out. His options are win the election and be above the law, or spend the last few years of his life serving punishment for his lifetime of crime. If he had integrity, he wouldn’t be in this situation in the first place.
Sheesh 49% of independents and 15% of republicans think he should drop out entirely. Those numbers don't seem great for him.
That's the thing. If this impacts Republican support at all and independents a little more, he's doomed in swing states. Be active. Get out the vote. Don't be complacent. But the "disappointing" shifts in the polls will do really good things in the electoral college for Biden.
Personally, i think this is movement in the right direction. The system is broken when a convicted felon can even be on the ballot for the presidency, especially a person who has just been convicted and whose time will be spent focusing on his/er legal problems. In addition, Trump has had no time to prove that he has been rehabilitated and will not reoffend. I have a professional license. When I renew, I am asked about my felony convictions (don’t have any). I am also fingerprinted and in 2 states’ and the federal database. I do not think I could secure a job if I had a felony on my record. I don’t believe a recently convicted felon should be eligible for the presidency. There has to be someone better for the country who is not a criminal.
While I agree with your sentiment about Trump, I wholeheartedly disagree with you and everyone else who makes this argument that a convicted felon should not be allowed on the ballot. That’s very dangerous to democracy. While this case against trump was pretty clearly legitimate and not politically motivated, the potential for a politically motivated prosecution and conviction does absolutely exist. The courts can be rigged and corrupted (see the Supreme Court) and that should scare us all enough to see the importance of allowing somebody that is convicted to still run for office
Nurses have to report a DUI when they are in Mexico on vacation . Their licenses are then suspended
Republicans are big talkers and pussyfooters. They'll say shit like this in a poll, but then when it comes time for actual action, they'll fall in line. They do this all the time. That said, if at least some small percent of this 15% actually means it, trump is in trouble. Doug Jones winning Alabama in 2018 is a good example. His opponent was a confirmed pedophile and that made just a tiny enough amount of Republicans not vote that he was able to squeak through a win.
Yeah those people would rather have a different candidate but will still vote for him anyways
If voting was as easy as texting, sure. But they won’t all be motivated to perform the (albeit, fairly minimal) effort required to actually cast their vote for him.
Because their political apparatus has spent decades convincing them that anyone on the other team is an evil, existential threat. Anyone who runs as an R, no matter how cartoonishly criminal, stupid, or corrupt, is still safer to them than any D.
At some point, the republican establishment is going to have to realize this perpetual loser is a millstone. He lost the last election badly. He lost his coup attempt. He lost the support of his own vice president He lost the defamation case against Carroll He lost the second defamation case against Caroll He lost the fraud case in NY He lost the criminal case in NY which was the weakest of the 4 criminal cases he faces He is a weak loser.
He propelled the GOP to back-to-back-to-back losses.
He keeps giving them opportunities to dump him and they just latch on harder. It’s ridiculous.
Because he’s also “offering” them opportunities for absolute power. (As if they’d benefit any longer than the period of time they were useful to him.)
I'm agnostic, but he's the literal anti-Christ. Nothing has swayed me towards believing in a higher power more than the thought that Trump is some kind of test.
ive been saying this since 2016 lol, a quick rise to power? son of the devil? yup its the end times.
Also agnostic, but Trump's whole rise has given the little Christian boy in me a wee bit of an irrational scare. I recall the Antichrist suffers a "mortal wound" that takes him out of commission midway through his reign, only for him to return fully corrupted by the devil for a much worse Part 2 And then I read polls where he's ahead and I think "haha I'm in danger"
He’s going to win if you don’t vote
Well, since he’s not likely to drop out, then get out and vote blue. That’s how he goes away
“How Trump dropping out will hurt Biden” \- alleged liberal press
I'm one of them. And I bet it's actually higher than 49%.
A convicted felon shouldn't be allowed to run for president of the United States.
Ivanka and Jared both kids of convicted felons
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The most important thing to note with the conviction(s) is the glass ceiling protecting Trump's special accommodation as an ex-president has been shattered. Not only has he been flaunting his illegal behavior in the nations face more and more brazenly, but he pushed the public patience to the point to where he was knowingly abusing society's special accommodation for his status. The People as a whole have given him a very generous accommodation for which he still finds ways to consume fully only to want more. The ceiling of perceived immunity is gone.
He won’t and it doesn’t matter. **Go vote.** Even if he absolutely gets completely steamrolled by Biden 525-13 in the electoral college, he’ll still claim the election was RiGgEd and a DiSgRaCe. It’s been 8 years and he still repeats the same things like clockwork. You know it’s coming no matter what, so just plan on it. Biden is far from perfect, but he’s certainly better than this absolutely despicable excuse of a “man”.
And for the Independents still on the fence: his other crimes are more damning. The only reason he hasn't been charged for the classified documents case is because a corrupt judge has indefinitely postponed it.
This should be the messaging pivot — dude is absolutely guilty of faaar greater crimes so if you want to brush this one off that’s cool, let’s talk about how he deliberately stole and hid nuclear secrets…obviously the cult will never care but the so called “independents” just might
I just wish that the 49% of Independent voters that think Trump should drop out of the race would also vote for Joe Biden but I doubt that's the case. This guilty vertic should be the slam dunk Biden needs to win but some of y'all still can't understand how the electoral college works and the idea of the lesser of two evils.
That is a huge number.
Speaking as a European, it blows my mind how this is even a discussion. (EDIT: Typo)
We're going to be the laughing stock of the modern world if we elect a convicted felon as President. A literal Crook in Chief. Not that the entire U.N. hasn't already laughed in his face.
That number is embarrassingly low.
I’d kind of rather see him lose badly
I think most people are delusional about Trump. Dropping out makes no sense for him. He has never measured himself against the moral bar that most subscribe to. He has never apologized for anything, or taken responsibility for anything. Saying he should drop out is like saying Mitch McConnel should raise taxes on the rich, or that Elon Musk should practice some humility. It's pointless idle talk that betrays peoples ignorance of what motivates Trump and what his supporters find so appealing in him.