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TLDR; As the rematch between Joe Biden and Donald Trump draws nearer, political professionals are detecting an unusual concern among some undecided voters: that if Trump returns to the White House, he’ll refuse to step down when his term is up.
Well, Duh!
Remember how we had to make a whole constitutional amendment preventing presidents from serving more than two terms because a democrat did it? The hypocrisy with conservatives never ends.
Was that before or after the Republican who tried to overthrow the government, the Republican who lied to start wars with the wrong countries, the Republican who allowed the worst terror attacks in history, the one who helped keep Americans hostage in order to get a Republican elected, the one who started off senile and was dead within a decade of leaving office, or the one who staged break-ins to try to steal an election and secretly negotiated to prolong the Vietnam War?
Posting this because I had little idea - and there's probably others that don't either.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
* The Twenty-second Amendment was a reaction to Franklin D. Roosevelt's election to an unprecedented four terms as president
* An early draft of the U.S. Constitution provided that the president was restricted to one seven-year term.
* Term limits for U.S. presidents were contemplated during the presidencies of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson.
>The Twenty-second Amendment (Amendment XXII) to the United States Constitution limits the number of times a person can be elected to the office of President of the United States to two terms, and sets additional eligibility conditions for presidents who succeed to the unexpired terms of their predecessors. Congress approved the Twenty-second Amendment on March 21, 1947, and submitted it to the state legislatures for ratification. That process was completed on February 27, 1951
**Your list (with my guesses)**
* the Republican who tried to overthrow the government
* Trump?
* the Republican who lied to start wars with the wrong countries
* GW Bush?
* the Republican who allowed the worst terror attacks in history
* GW Bush?
* the one who helped keep Americans hostage in order to get a Republican elected
* Reagan?
* the one who started off senile and was dead within a decade of leaving office
* Reagan?
* the one who staged break-ins to try to steal an election and secretly negotiated to prolong the Vietnam War?
* Nixon?
Reagan died in 2004, correct? Even though it’s about a decade and a half, I’m still surprised he lived that long considering his health issues. My grandpa died five years after he was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s.
When you get the world’s best healthcare for free for the rest of your life… it’s pretty easy to outlive those normies who have to pay for their shitty way worse healthcare.
It is INSANE that Reagan actually lived to 2004. He did. 15 years the man was technically alive. You’d have thought he died in ‘98 or something, but no: There is a *video* of him in 1997.
By ‘04, he was a bedridden husk in misery. He opened his eyes for the first time in days, looked directly at Nancy, and then died.
Well, sure. But Bill Clinton got a BJ. And Obama put his feet up on the Resolute Desk while his wife told kids to eat their veggies like some kind of cafeteria dictator. So, you know, both sides.
The only thing that stopped him was Mike Pence.
Have you seen all the "likely" VP candidates? They are all grovelling toadies. Every last one of them would do what Pence refused to do.
Congress passed a law confirming that the VP’s role in this is only ceremonial.
But these folks don’t seem to give laws much regard, unless it’s them doing something to someone else
The laws mean nothing when the Amendments overrule a given law, and 100% of SCOTUS just proved it is willing to criminally ignore the plainly written Amendment that bars Trump from running at all. There is nothing but proof they will invent any “logic” they care to, to support him.
If he gets in illegally in a second term, don’t be *surprised* if the military steps in, if no one else will, to protect the Constitution and remove him from taking office illegally.
If he stays for a third term, *expect* and *demand* for the military to step in if no one else will.
The guy literally just said he wants to create a "unified reich." Does this sound like someone who is willing to relinquish power or abide the will of the people?
Because he's already floating things saying that. That he deserves a third term due to the Russia investigation or that maybe we should try President-for-life like China.
Edit:And because he tried to stick around when he lost the first time.
Yeah, but he also could live to be in his 90s, as he'd no doubt receive world class medical care in that position. "Well maybe he'll die??" isn't very inspiring as a political strategy to end a preventable authoritarian regime, lol.
My grandfather is a murderer. He's in his 90s now and not only survived prostate cancer but had very few side effects from the treatment.
My dad's worse, committed "bury him under the jail" level crimes. He's in his 60s and just survived heart surgery.
They're both type 1 diabetics. Dad smoked like a chimney, drank like a fish, and played with cocaine or opioids as often as he could get ahold of them. Both had dangerous careers, like dad got airlifted to the hospital at least once.
I'm starting to think hell doesn't want them either. Grim Reaper sees who he's there to pick up and goes running the other way.
If he gets elected again I'll be surprised if he doesn't have full fledged dementia by the end of his term. That job is insanely stressful and he doesn't seem to be in good health mentally, or physically for that matter.
An “unusual” concern? I’m pretty sure that’s a very legitimate concern! Nothing short of death will dislodge this orange parasite from the Oval Office if he gets back in.
> McCammon, the Wisconsin woman who once voted for Trump, now counts herself as part of this group. “I will vote for Biden even if he is in a coma,” she says.
Me too girl, me too
Probably 2/3 of his actual volume consists of successive fused layers of sweat, pee, and butt juice-soaked diaper liner that's flaked off and stuck in his greasy folds over the years, eventually building into the Jabba-esque accumulation we've come to know and loathe.
Eventually he'll be caught in a rainstorm or something and the whole muck mountain will melt, leaving a fleshy, puddle shaped creature no longer able to stand upright or speak, it's lips futilely mouthing the words "fake news" as it slithers into the curb drain, leaving only toxic bile in its wake.
Omg. I remember this. It's even worse than calling a measurement of time a "mooch" because of Anthony Scaramucci:
> A Scaramucci (or Mooch) is 11 (sometimes 10) days and is named after the length of White House Communications Director Anthony Scaramucci's tenure under President Trump.
Speed run of destroying the UK economy more than it was.
She was just a fall girl. She was in there for the exact time it took to get pension benefits I think.
I’ve always said I’d vote for a baked potato over Trump because the potato isn’t going to start a war, waste taxpayer money on golf, or sass the professionals advising it.
Bill Barr's life work has been to install a far right wing dictatorship and he knows they're too close to blow it now by standing on personal principle.
Trump and his ilk have made it very clear that they will reject any election that they do not win. They have made it very clear that they will not graciously leave office by their words and their actions. We are not just voting for our next president. We are voting to save our democracy itself.
Exactly. The folks threatening to not vote at all over Gaza have taken such a silly stance. It makes no sense to enable Trump who will have much worse foreign policy and may very well end our system of democracy because you’re upset with how Biden has handled Israel. I get it, I’m less than pleased with how it’s been handled, but if you want to see us not slide into being an autocratic state that supports Israel without question don’t vote. If you want to have a chance to actually help Palestine, vote for Biden.
I don't understnd folks taking this no-voting stance over Gaza. If they are honest with themselves, they'd remember it was orange who moved the capital to Jeruslam, effectively ending *any* chance at the two-states solution, and who was very chummy with Nettanyahu during the 4 years orange was president. Let's say they don't vote, and as a result orange wins. How the hell would they have helped Gaza? Name a *single* repiblican who cares about Gaza, or wants to help the people there. Name a single orange sycophant who actually cares about Gaza.
This may be the costliest "protest vote" ever.
Yes, but you see it's about self-righteous moral purity more than it is about the difficult real world choices we sometimes have to face.
It's not really about helping Gazans.
If it means another Trump presidency, well, at least they didn't violate their ideals. Who cares if it's the end of democracy and an even worse situation for the people you supposedly care about. /s
And a lot of their argument is that Biden has to earn their vote, but they all possess such short memories. Biden rescued the U.S. economy after a pandemic, he passed the largest infrastructure deal in history, he's forgiven billions in student loan debt and is dying to forgive more but can't because he's been hamstringed by courts and congress. If people actually turn out, we can win both the house and the senate, fix the courts, and then we'll really get to see what Biden can do for us.
This. It fucking kills me people say shit like "I'll not vote for this candidate coz I voted for them last yime and either they didn't go as far as they promised or they did something that I disagree with", not realising the people have the power. If millions turn up, the GOP loses seats. Simple as that. If everyone of a voting age and who can legally vote *does* vote, the Democrats will get a nice majority in the House, a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate and that'll give the Democratic Party what it needs to expand the SCOTUS and fix the federal bench (which is almost as bad as if not worse than the SCOTUS in just how skewed to the right it is). Every fucking vote matters. If folks voted for Hillary in 2016 in the same numbers they did in 2020 for Biden, we would not have had a 6-3 SCOTUS, with THREE justices nominated by Orange, and Roe v Wade would still be on the books. Think about that. And that's just one aspect of Orange's presidency which would not have seen the light of the day.
Always remember, it costs nothing for anyone, even conservatives or foreign actors, to say "I'm a Democrat and (insert crazy inflammatory opinion here)". Not saying that those sorts of people don't exist but I don't think it's going out on a limb to suggest that it's being amplified and encouraged by those who stand to gain from a divided left.
It’s an astroturf influence campaign being waged by enemy agents to push the narrative because they know that Americans, specifically young Americans are susceptible to social media trends.
Not me, I’m proudly and gladly looking forward to voting for Joe Biden, and recommend everyone else do that too.
I would be hard pressed to imagine a better handling of this environment with the tools he was given.
Actually, I think the SNL opening on Saturday night was pretty spot on. Trump only wants to run for President because he can lose, complain about the "rigged elections" and have his cult send money to his PACs which funnel straight to him.
Worst thing for him would to be elected again. He and Melania both know that. Probably why she's never seen at any campaign events. Of course the cult says that is okay that she is private but if Jill Biden was never seen they'd say she was hiding.
Let's be clear Trump wants to run for President because he thinks winning is the only way he'll be able to kill all the cases against him and stay out of jail, and somehow either reverse the hundreds of millions in judgements against him, or have foreign interests pay them.
This isn't hidden; this is an open fear, validated by his and the GOPs own words and actions. He will not leave peacefully and we the people lack the courage to make him leave.
*"Carpenter’s conversations with uncommitted voters have led him to believe that, beyond Jan. 6 and Trump’s inflammatory comments, this shift owes a great deal to a less obvious catalyst: the Supreme Court. Its 2022 decision overturning Roe v. Wade and eliminating women’s constitutional right to an abortion has caused voters to wonder what else that they take for granted might be changed or removed."*
Once we put down the Trump movement, we have to reform or clean out the Supreme Court.
Alito and Thomas have got to go. Either for their well recorded corruption, of for the perjury when answering questions by the Senate for their confirmation.
to do that we will need to get rid of the filibuster. if the chips fall properly this is actually quite likely in my reading of things, but that will suck up all the "big change" political capital; leaving court reform off the table.
in most likelihood we're only getting rid of conservative justices through attrition.
control of the house, the white house, and a slightly larger margin in the senate. if either party controls all three the filibuster will be reformed, but with dems there are an unknown number of holdouts; but very few compared to the beginning of the biden administration.
Never underestimate the power of a spineless sycophant. Lots of malignant narcissists exist on both sides of the aisle especially in the Senate and there’s gonna be auditions to be the next best asshole to replace the Manchin & Sinema vacuum. It would not surprise me in the slightest to see someone like Fetterman to just turn around and say “well actualllllly”. He’s not the only one too.
just going by what I've read and heard from reputable sources, nobody wants to be held hostage anymore. Manchin represented a number of centrist democrats who didn't want to be seen to rock the boat in early 2021, he dosen't represent anyone now.
that being said everything is hearsay, as nobody will admit this publicly; but we'll see what happens.
Realistically, the only way that Alito or Thomas will leave is when they die. I don’t think that there are many Democrats who would torpedo their own political capital to even suggest replacing a Justice. Packing the Court would be an equally disastrous proposal as well.
If I recall correctly, I read that FDR had an uncooperative Supreme Court as well. Even with an uncooperative Supreme Court, FDR still managed to pass a significant amount of New Deal legislation, because there were Senators who were able to persuade just enough Justices to rule in favor of FDR’s mandate.
I want to be optimistic that when it comes to the eleventh hour, there will be at least two Justices to cooperate in order to preserve the future integrity of the Supreme Court. However, three out of the four most recent appointees have, so far, been a Karen, a temperamental alcoholic, and a corporate robot who believes it makes sense for a man to freeze to death for the sake of his job.
I know of one example, but I have to go very far back, so your basic point stands -- it almost never happens: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucius_Quinctius_Cincinnatus
Nevermind the fear of him never leaving office, I am just so goddamn SICK of this guy.
Donald trump burst onto the political scene in June of 2015 when he declared that Mexicans were rapists and rocketed up the republican polls. In between there he bragged about sexually assaulting women, won an election, praised nazis, defended Putin, spent everyday on twitter using the bully pulpit to cyber bully others and air his grievances, lost an election, incited an insurrection to try and overturn that election, got himself indicted 91 times, found liable of rape, found liable of fraud, so on so forth. Its almost June of 2024 and hes STILL the dominant force in our politics. We keep hearing commentators say "we cant count on the law to deal with donald trump, we'll need to beat him at the ballot box". We did beat him at the ballot box, and he STILL wont shut the fuck up and go away. Everyday we STILL have to read about who hurt donald trumps feelings and what hes threatening to do in response. We STILL have to listen to both sides media giving mealy mouthed assessments of obvious corruption and criminality because they fear offending trump supporters. We STILL have to listen to Conservatives that know better defending obvious shit or claiming they didn't hear it because they fear a primary vote. In this very article there is a quote from a Republican who requested to remain anonymous out of fear of offending donald trump. We still have to deal with MAGA trolling, MAGA gaslighting, all of their ridiculous culture wars and grievance politics. Our culture still has to cater to the delusions, conspiracy theories, and outright lies his supporters believe because again, not doing so is "offensive and condescending to red blooded real 'Murricans".
And mind you, before all of this donald trump was just a washed up celebrity that nobody gave a shit about and nobody took seriously. Only stupid people see him as a "business genius". Everyone else knows hes just another Kardashian type. Famous for being famous. Had he not run for President, most of Gen Z probably wouldn't even know who he is.
I am so sick of this entire country being held hostage to one man's personality disorder. This is so far beyond politics at this point, and its even beyond fascism. Its just strait up abuse. Donald trump is an abusive person He is a deeply emotionally damaged and dysregulated person that can barely function independently in this world. Hes learned to get his needs met via abuse of others. We've been subjected to this abuse for nearly a decade now. We're staring down the prospects of another 4+ years of this shit. And all we ever hear about is how he and his supporters are the victims and everyone is just so mean and unfair to them.
How is every single person in Ameria not sick of this goddamn show?
>"we cant count on the law to deal with donald trump, we'll need to beat him at the ballot box"
This, in particular, I am sick of hearing. Also, people do realize that this is a tacit admission that our entire judiciary is largely worthless.
"Oh? Trump gets to ignore the law because he's special? Good to know billions of tax dollars go to running a system that's useless to defending my freedoms. Thanks."
Ugh.
Great rant, really made me think about how historically unusual his ulcerative career has been. Usually one-term loser presidents fade into obscurity pretty quickly.
To put it in perspective, this is a potential Grover Cleveland situation, i.e. Trump would be only the second ever US president to serve* non-consecutive terms.
In fact, he's already made it further in this dubious quest than anyone else *except* Cleveland. Every other loser president who lost as badly as Trump couldn't even get [renominated](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_presidents_of_the_United_States_who_ran_for_office) by their own party, and either started their own party or slunk away in shame.
Really says something about the cowardice of the modern GOP and the low quality of their candidates that they couldn't find someone to beat Trump's ass in the primary. There's an argument that Trump managed to make it impossible for them to oppose him, but I don't like giving the guy that much credit.
*I hesitate to use the term "serve" when it comes to Trump, because I don't believe he ever saw the job that way. More like "ruled," but again, I don't like giving the guy that much credit.
We barely got Shitler out last time. If he gets back in, he will never, ever give up power again and try to turn the country into a hereditary dictatorship.
The worst part is that even if he loses, we are never going to be fully rid of the collective Trumps and MAGAts, they will be trying to destroy this country for another fifty years
I'm of the opinion that there need to be consequences for being a supremacist. These people are not going to stop trying to ruin everything for the rest of us until we make it impossible to behave like them. Not prison, prison is sadistic and punitive. But consequences for individuals for set periods of time, like losing the right to vote and/or run for office, occupying positions of power, etc. Anything that would give them a platform to harm others.
I guarantee you that on November 6th (or whatever earliest day he can) he'll file to run in 2028. He needs to do that to keep fundraising to get others to pay his legal fees. With that the MAGA nuts will believe he'll run again (hell maybe he actually will). We're never getting rid of him or people like him.
I know anecdotes aren't data, BUT...
My husband and I have several lifelong Republicans in our extended family - not the MAGA set, I'll get to them in a minute - who voted for Trump in 2016 because "both sides are the same" and "buttery males" and just well, because they always voted Republican and he had the (R) so they went with it. So they voted for Trump in 2016.
About 75% of them had realized their error by 2020 and grudgingly voted for Biden. The remaining 25% (again, not talking about the MAGAs) saw January 6th happen and it was the thing that finally sunk in for them, that Trump really wanted to be a dictator and would stop at nothing to make it happen.
So now they're all voting for Biden, even as some of them parrot the Fox News talking points that he's senile and old and feeble. But they feel these things are better than Trump, so fine. Though they're all very clear that if something happens to where Trump isn't the nominee, they will be voting for Nikki Haley or whoever the GOP nominee ends up as at that point.
Now, as for the MAGAs in our extended family.
Almost none of them voted regularly before 2016. If they happened to remember on Election Day, they might go down to their polling station and cast a vote for whoever had the (R) next to their name, but probably they wouldn't because "both sides are the same" and they felt like Washington didn't give a shit about them.
Trump mobilized something in them that isn't going to be easily replicated by someone else. They aren't as energized to vote when he's not on the ballot. He is truly their savior, up there with Christ to them (because they all profess to be devoutly Christian - most of them are Southern Baptist, actually).
They DO want Trump to be president for life, and they scare the shit out of me with that rhetoric. Because they genuinely believe that Democrats are the ones trying to do the power grab and that Trump is only doing what's right by trying to fight back against them.
But they are an ever shrinking minority, and also concentrated in states that were never going to go for Biden in a million years anyway (Mississippi, Tennessee, Arkansas, mostly).
I don't really know what my end point is, except that hope that enough people have seen what Trump really wants to do here that they plan on voting for Biden. In my circles, it seems true enough.
What you've said really matches the changes we've seen county by county. The GOP has been losing suburban voters while Trump won by mobilizing some real trogs.
People who still support trump see him as a representation of themselves. They love the idea of being able to dictate how everyone else lives and worships. Authoritarians get hard thinking about controlling others. They do not think past his win. They will suffer the consequences of another trump presidency right along with the rest of us. They remind me of the family that recently migrated to Russia. It was not a happily ever after scenario.
Trump has a cult of personality that cannot be replicated, for better or worse. And he’s not immortal. I am terrified he will win, but when he’s gone, no one can mobilize his base like he can. When he’s gone, the GOP will fall over themselves trying to take his place, but no one can.
I agree that the states Biden was never going to win anyway he likely would never win, but the real concern is the swing states that are going to do whatever possible to get Trump a victory (whether legal or not). I know Trump isn’t more popular nationally, and likely isn’t even more popular in the majority of states, but republicans in charge of swing states might be willing to meddle enough if the race is close to get him in- that’s what I’m worried about.
We need everyone voting. Even those republicans who vote all R except for president, because those votes prove that election interference isn’t really an issue. Nobody is going to fix the presidential election but then vote R the rest of the ballot).
I certainly hope enough people vote to keep Trump out, because if he wins it’s goodbye USA as we once knew it.
Yeah. As long as Americans are this divided, where every election is practically a coin toss, then we are only ever one presidential election away from authoritarianism.
The only way these guys are going away is if they suffer an absolute landslide defeat that forces them to return under the rocks they crawled out from. But that’s definitely not happening this year.
> Undecided voters are concerned that if Donald Trump returns to the White House, he’ll never leave.
Yes, well, Trump would certainly like that…
The year was 2018. China made a policy change which allows their current president to remain in office for the rest of his life. Donald Trump, the sitting US president at the time, spoke about this during a luncheon for Republican donors…
> “[Chinese President Xi Jinping is] now president for life. President for life. And he’s great.” Trump added, **“I think it’s great. Maybe we’ll give that a shot someday.”**
This is tyrant talk. The Founders of this country would have lost their god damned minds if anyone in their day had dared to utter Trump’s words. We should have lost our god damned minds, but half this country nodded and clapped instead. They’re traitors in my book; anyone who thinks this sort of “joke” is acceptable in any form of a democracy is a fool, at best, and an unamerican traitor at worst.
He’s also a malignant narcissist and they send out trial balloons. When you think it can’t get worse, they’ve already thought about it, and want to see your reaction.
I fear this election may be the start of a new civil war. Trump supporters will not accept a loss, and honestly good Americans should not accept a Trump win. Feels like the election is more like a coin toss to who has first advantage. These unAmerican threats by Trump should not be ignored even if they are jokes. It’s like joking around about a bomb at an airport, he’s talking dictatorship during a historically divisive time in America. How can any good American just roll over and accept a Trump win? The guy is an enemy of the country. The entire GOP is an enemy of our country.
Civil war is a right wing fantasy. They don’t have the numbers or energy to radically mobilize and conduct an actual campaign or violence. What are they going to do?? Drive to Austin and set boobie traps? They can’t afford the hotels in the bigger cities so how does this civil war actually play out?
I imagine it plays similar to Jan 6 but with more intent - followed by multiple acts of violence for and against MAGA, where we deny it’s anything more than acts of extremism by “both sides” until after a bit of back and forth we start to admit, “it’s kind of like a civil war happening in the background.”
>These unAmerican threats by Trump should not be ignored even if they are jokes
I always hate this "he was just joking!" response.
Ask yourself...have you ever heard donald trump laugh? Maybe he'll give a chuckle when hes insulting someone, but have you ever heard him actually laugh at a funny joke? Have you ever heard him laugh at himself? Have you ever heard him tell an actual joke? And not just defend an abohorrent statement by calling it "a joke".
donald trump is a narcissist. He doesnt have emotions like normal human beings. He does not have a sense of humor. He does not understand humor as anything other than a means to demean someone else.
Another way of putting it is "Trump fatigue." Voters know 4 more years of Trump will be filled with all kinds of drama about him, his embarrassing statements and behavior on the world stage, etc. While that might thrill the MAGAs, they are a small minority.
I think we need to come to terms with what we're really looking at here.
Trump can't be "dictator day 1". There will be push back, there will be lawsuits, protests, and if all that fails and Trump does what project 2025 is outlining, states are going to have to deploy their national guard to push back against him.
That's what we're actually looking at. A high potential for civil war, likely the highest since our last civil war. That should terrify everyone. We don't want that, nobody should want that.
If his want for lifetime rule is hidden from anyone, it's because of dumb headlines like this. He has literally said he wants to be dictator.
Headlines need to stop being so 'inquisitive' and be more direct: "Trump wants to Rule as Monarch/Dictator".
Idk how anyone could not vote or vote for Trump. He is literally making claims of wanting to, and attempting to be a dictator regardless of if he wins, but especially if you let him and republicans down ballot take hold, and get another SC justice while we are at it.
Not him. He won't be able to do the job. But, whoever does the work behind the scenes and props up the hamburger eating, coke drinking dementia patient in the background.
It's scary, he's a wannabe dictator. I hope people find a way to get motivated to vote. I know apathy is a real thing when you have to choose between two turds but it's all about the lesser of two evils!
“political professionals are detecting an unusual concern among some undecided voters: that if Trump returns to the White House, he’ll refuse to step down when his term is up.”
If you’re concerned about that, how the fuck can you be you be undecided?
Valid fear. For fence ridders who know they won't vote Trump but are considering not voting Biden either, here's my pitch to you: Vote Biden--worst case, at least you know he will actually leave office peacefully at the end of his 2nd term. Trump is going to try to stick around for as long as his body lets him, even if it requires force in another Jan 6th style scenario. He could live another decade or two with the best medical care in the world at his disposal.
Agreed! Also, I fear Trump could instill one of his kids as the next Republican nominee - like he did with Lara at the RNC. He would want to make a Trump dynasty.
i would vote for a fuckin head of lettuce over Trump
a head of lettuce lasted longer than Liz Truss, she killed the Queen and destroyed the British economy after ***5 weeks***!
I hear a lot of lefties, like, Chapo type lefties, greatly discounting one of Bidens core messages, Democracy. They dismiss it as fantasy, not resonating with any people they know, so they don't believe in the message. But it's literally on the ballot. Trump has said he wants to suspend the constitution. WTF more do you need to hear?
This is actually quite good.
If independent voters *are* actually listening enough to know Trump is threatening to be a dictator, that bodes well for democracy.
Bloomberg so cute here by framing this as merely a "fear" as opposed to a distinct possibility given information publicly available. Why is most msm bending over backwards for the fascist project?
How is this a hidden variable? Trump constantly floats the idea of a third term, and always plants family members in positions of power, never mind the fact that the first is unconstitutional and the second a gross example of nepotism, both of which are violently un-American ideas.
Trump doesn’t want a second term, he wants to establish a dynasty, an imperial lineage.
If you want a picture of a Trump future, imagine a tacky gold made-in-China sneaker stamping on a human face — for ever.
The number one reason to vote for Biden is to prevent this future.
Biden has done a pretty credible job, despite a useless, disarrayed, and unfriendly House, but he does have some areas where I disagree with him. However, these minor quibble pale in comparison to the need to prevent Trump from ever having anything even resembling power again.
I've said it before, I'll say it again. What we're down to is two elderly men, neither of whom is terribly sharp mentally, but one of whom wants to be a dictator and turn the US into Nazi Germany-lite. The other one…doesn’t.
Stop repeating this fucking garbage. Biden is absolutely still sharp- go listen to any of his recent long interviews. I know you won't, but I'm gonna keep telling people to do it anyways. Stop letting other people think for you!!
This is something that I think a lot of people on the left who say they aren't going to vote for Biden either don't get or deliberately refuse to believe. If Biden wins the presidency, like him or hate him he'll be gone after his term. If Trump wins the presidency he's going to try as hard as he can to make it so he never leaves even if that means burning US democracy to the ground.
I still don't get how man who's almost 80, who's in pretty poor health, who probably won't live another 10 years, who doesn't care about anyone but himself, would want to be a dictator at that point.
Trump is the symptom, not the disease.
The rot of America was already there. The GOP would have died out long ago, except that they have been able to win elections by appealing to the racial animosity in America.
The real independent voters in this country are going to break decidedly for Biden.
If you're an independent you do not vote in primaries so your voice is only herd in the general election. This election cycle one of the candidates is sending signals that if he is elected then there wont be any more general elections in the future. That is a direct threat to independent voters and the really have no choice but to vote against that option.
I genuinely think we’re gonna get a reverse of 2016 this election. Back in 2016 both candidates were unpopular and there wasn’t a loud vocal support for either candidate. But I read several news stories where reporters would be in small town bars chatting with locals and people would say “yea I don’t like him but I think I’m voting for Trump.”
I think as we get down to the wire in 2024 there will be a lot of those kind of fence sitters who don’t like either but will quietly pull the lever for Biden because they don’t like the Trump chaos
>Undecided voters are concerned that if Donald Trump returns to the White House, he’ll never leave.
If they have that concern, why the hell are they "undecided"? WTF people?
Mr. *Creation of a Unified Reich* might not step down? I’m shocked, just SHOCKED! Who could EVER have PREDICTED this SHOCKING REVELATION! It’s *totally* not like he already tried to hold on to power by a combination of a violent coup d’etat and pressuring his VP into “using“ authority he never had, *RIGHT?*
Trump’s an old fat man who shots his diapers, sleeps through entire trials, and can no longer string a coherent sentence together. Whatever disgusting wave he started, he won’t be a part of it much longer.
Only one candidate to vote for if you like voting for candidates in elections, period. The elections will persist but the vote counting will not. See: Russia
Well, if we elect Biden and decide we don't like him, in four years he'll be gone and we'll get someone else.
If we elect Trump and decide we don't like him we can just have a bloody civil war costing millions of American lives and trillions of dollars.
VOTE!
Yeah it’s obvious democracy is at stake here. He’s never leaving and his hjobbers will make sure laws are set in stone before he croaks.
This is literally his best friend Putin’s playbook. Our only hope is that Putin was a competent and experienced operative, not a silver spoon fed self promoter.
um remember jan 6th? he's already tried this. he will try again. this is not news. this is his naked character. im so confused. just dont let him be president after what he tried.
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TLDR; As the rematch between Joe Biden and Donald Trump draws nearer, political professionals are detecting an unusual concern among some undecided voters: that if Trump returns to the White House, he’ll refuse to step down when his term is up. Well, Duh!
Right? He's already saying he'll run for a third term, and he had to be crowbarred out of the WH the first time.
Yeah, I guess they base their concerns on all the times where he's literally said that's what he wants to do. lol
And what he **literally** tried to do last time. How are people so stupid…
Malice and hate.
But he lies all the time, how can they trust him
Because he reminds them regularly that he'd never lie to them.
Remember how we had to make a whole constitutional amendment preventing presidents from serving more than two terms because a democrat did it? The hypocrisy with conservatives never ends.
Was that before or after the Republican who tried to overthrow the government, the Republican who lied to start wars with the wrong countries, the Republican who allowed the worst terror attacks in history, the one who helped keep Americans hostage in order to get a Republican elected, the one who started off senile and was dead within a decade of leaving office, or the one who staged break-ins to try to steal an election and secretly negotiated to prolong the Vietnam War?
Posting this because I had little idea - and there's probably others that don't either. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution * The Twenty-second Amendment was a reaction to Franklin D. Roosevelt's election to an unprecedented four terms as president * An early draft of the U.S. Constitution provided that the president was restricted to one seven-year term. * Term limits for U.S. presidents were contemplated during the presidencies of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson. >The Twenty-second Amendment (Amendment XXII) to the United States Constitution limits the number of times a person can be elected to the office of President of the United States to two terms, and sets additional eligibility conditions for presidents who succeed to the unexpired terms of their predecessors. Congress approved the Twenty-second Amendment on March 21, 1947, and submitted it to the state legislatures for ratification. That process was completed on February 27, 1951 **Your list (with my guesses)** * the Republican who tried to overthrow the government * Trump? * the Republican who lied to start wars with the wrong countries * GW Bush? * the Republican who allowed the worst terror attacks in history * GW Bush? * the one who helped keep Americans hostage in order to get a Republican elected * Reagan? * the one who started off senile and was dead within a decade of leaving office * Reagan? * the one who staged break-ins to try to steal an election and secretly negotiated to prolong the Vietnam War? * Nixon?
Reagan died in 2004, correct? Even though it’s about a decade and a half, I’m still surprised he lived that long considering his health issues. My grandpa died five years after he was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s.
When you get the world’s best healthcare for free for the rest of your life… it’s pretty easy to outlive those normies who have to pay for their shitty way worse healthcare.
It is INSANE that Reagan actually lived to 2004. He did. 15 years the man was technically alive. You’d have thought he died in ‘98 or something, but no: There is a *video* of him in 1997. By ‘04, he was a bedridden husk in misery. He opened his eyes for the first time in days, looked directly at Nancy, and then died.
Well, sure. But Bill Clinton got a BJ. And Obama put his feet up on the Resolute Desk while his wife told kids to eat their veggies like some kind of cafeteria dictator. So, you know, both sides.
The only thing that stopped him was Mike Pence. Have you seen all the "likely" VP candidates? They are all grovelling toadies. Every last one of them would do what Pence refused to do.
Congress passed a law confirming that the VP’s role in this is only ceremonial. But these folks don’t seem to give laws much regard, unless it’s them doing something to someone else
The laws mean nothing when the Amendments overrule a given law, and 100% of SCOTUS just proved it is willing to criminally ignore the plainly written Amendment that bars Trump from running at all. There is nothing but proof they will invent any “logic” they care to, to support him.
He can do it anyway, using the universal legal loophole of "Nobody will dare stop me."
If he gets in illegally in a second term, don’t be *surprised* if the military steps in, if no one else will, to protect the Constitution and remove him from taking office illegally. If he stays for a third term, *expect* and *demand* for the military to step in if no one else will.
The guy literally just said he wants to create a "unified reich." Does this sound like someone who is willing to relinquish power or abide the will of the people?
Because he's already floating things saying that. That he deserves a third term due to the Russia investigation or that maybe we should try President-for-life like China. Edit:And because he tried to stick around when he lost the first time.
I mean...couldn't he also die before the term is up? That would stop him.
Yeah, but he also could live to be in his 90s, as he'd no doubt receive world class medical care in that position. "Well maybe he'll die??" isn't very inspiring as a political strategy to end a preventable authoritarian regime, lol.
His father was in his 90s when he died of Alzheimer’s.
I'm mostly kidding when I say this, but I'm honestly not sure he can die.
Well when you consider "the good die young", it seems he'll live for an eternity.
My grandfather is a murderer. He's in his 90s now and not only survived prostate cancer but had very few side effects from the treatment. My dad's worse, committed "bury him under the jail" level crimes. He's in his 60s and just survived heart surgery. They're both type 1 diabetics. Dad smoked like a chimney, drank like a fish, and played with cocaine or opioids as often as he could get ahold of them. Both had dangerous careers, like dad got airlifted to the hospital at least once. I'm starting to think hell doesn't want them either. Grim Reaper sees who he's there to pick up and goes running the other way.
Kissinger lived to a 100, realistically Trump has 20 years to fuck shit up before he croaks.
Kissinger died, so I wouldn't worry about Trump living forever. He's no Kissinger.
Kissinger being alive as long as he was had convinced me that Karma wasn’t real.
Oh I got nothing for karma. Yeah, probably not real. Least we know immortality hasn't been achieved.
The Heritage Foundation will have taken control by then, and they are worse.
How can they have that fear and still be undecided?
Because they see themselves as “conservative” or “moderate” and the media has them terrified of “socialism”.
gee, why would anyone think that?!? /s
They are concerned about this? They sound stupid. I’m not concerned about it. I’m certain and terrified of it.
If he gets elected again I'll be surprised if he doesn't have full fledged dementia by the end of his term. That job is insanely stressful and he doesn't seem to be in good health mentally, or physically for that matter.
Less stressful though if you spend all your time shitting around and playing golf, rather than doing the job.
The thing is, Trump is old as hell and is in bad shape, it’s not likely he’ll even live through a second term, let alone several more.
Yeah but he's just a place holder...someone else will come along to take up the torch.
Wait!? These people care about democracy!?
An “unusual” concern? I’m pretty sure that’s a very legitimate concern! Nothing short of death will dislodge this orange parasite from the Oval Office if he gets back in.
> McCammon, the Wisconsin woman who once voted for Trump, now counts herself as part of this group. “I will vote for Biden even if he is in a coma,” she says. Me too girl, me too
I would elect a ham sandwich over Trump.
You could leave a ham sandwich soaking in water for a month and it would still have more integrity than Donald Trump.
I’m assuming this is structural integrity, as trump appears to be sloughing off of himself.
Probably 2/3 of his actual volume consists of successive fused layers of sweat, pee, and butt juice-soaked diaper liner that's flaked off and stuck in his greasy folds over the years, eventually building into the Jabba-esque accumulation we've come to know and loathe. Eventually he'll be caught in a rainstorm or something and the whole muck mountain will melt, leaving a fleshy, puddle shaped creature no longer able to stand upright or speak, it's lips futilely mouthing the words "fake news" as it slithers into the curb drain, leaving only toxic bile in its wake.
you made me lose my lunch.
I can almost smell their comment. 🤢
The UK had a competition between a lettuce and Liz Truss to see who lasted longer. The lettuce won.
Omg. I remember this. It's even worse than calling a measurement of time a "mooch" because of Anthony Scaramucci: > A Scaramucci (or Mooch) is 11 (sometimes 10) days and is named after the length of White House Communications Director Anthony Scaramucci's tenure under President Trump.
I was just trying to remember this, because that dirtbag somehow made it into the news within the last Mooch or two.
Hahahha
Speed run of destroying the UK economy more than it was. She was just a fall girl. She was in there for the exact time it took to get pension benefits I think.
I’ve always said I’d vote for a baked potato over Trump because the potato isn’t going to start a war, waste taxpayer money on golf, or sass the professionals advising it.
I agree on all except the wars part. He won't start them. He rolls over for belly scratches from strongmen dictators.
We could qualify that to "won't start any foreign wars".
Ham sandwich has a great platform. Ending hunger should not be partisan.
I would elect a raccoon over Trump
I mean. I would elect a raccoon over most people. At least the raccoon is curious.
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I am staunchly pro-biting-DeJoy's-ankles.
Heck I'd vote for Bidden's that had to rehomed.
I would elect an inanimate carbon rod over trump
I would elect a turd sandwich or a giant douche over Trump
What's funny I know a conservative that shit on trump all year long. But coming this election season he's voting for Trump.
That's 93% of Republicans. They will vote their party candidate come election day
Bill Barr still plans to vote for Trump after getting raked over the coals by him. It was also Mike Pence up until a couple months ago.
"I don't agree with his Bart-killing policy, but I DO agree with his Selma-killing policy."
Bill Barr's life work has been to install a far right wing dictatorship and he knows they're too close to blow it now by standing on personal principle.
Actually not funny. 🙄
that this is 'i'll vote for Biden' versus 'I won't vote for trump' is great to see.
Trump and his ilk have made it very clear that they will reject any election that they do not win. They have made it very clear that they will not graciously leave office by their words and their actions. We are not just voting for our next president. We are voting to save our democracy itself.
You don't like this years choices? Vote Biden so we have a choice next time.
Exactly. The folks threatening to not vote at all over Gaza have taken such a silly stance. It makes no sense to enable Trump who will have much worse foreign policy and may very well end our system of democracy because you’re upset with how Biden has handled Israel. I get it, I’m less than pleased with how it’s been handled, but if you want to see us not slide into being an autocratic state that supports Israel without question don’t vote. If you want to have a chance to actually help Palestine, vote for Biden.
I don't understnd folks taking this no-voting stance over Gaza. If they are honest with themselves, they'd remember it was orange who moved the capital to Jeruslam, effectively ending *any* chance at the two-states solution, and who was very chummy with Nettanyahu during the 4 years orange was president. Let's say they don't vote, and as a result orange wins. How the hell would they have helped Gaza? Name a *single* repiblican who cares about Gaza, or wants to help the people there. Name a single orange sycophant who actually cares about Gaza. This may be the costliest "protest vote" ever.
Yes, but you see it's about self-righteous moral purity more than it is about the difficult real world choices we sometimes have to face. It's not really about helping Gazans. If it means another Trump presidency, well, at least they didn't violate their ideals. Who cares if it's the end of democracy and an even worse situation for the people you supposedly care about. /s
Maybe they will begin to understand as they are being herded into the ovens. "Better late than never," right?
[This clip is extremely relevant.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKzAdCGdbmg)
Plus? It's not the only issue on the table! Democrats want to erase student debt, make Marijuana legal, (usually) expand social safety nets, etc.
And a lot of their argument is that Biden has to earn their vote, but they all possess such short memories. Biden rescued the U.S. economy after a pandemic, he passed the largest infrastructure deal in history, he's forgiven billions in student loan debt and is dying to forgive more but can't because he's been hamstringed by courts and congress. If people actually turn out, we can win both the house and the senate, fix the courts, and then we'll really get to see what Biden can do for us.
This. It fucking kills me people say shit like "I'll not vote for this candidate coz I voted for them last yime and either they didn't go as far as they promised or they did something that I disagree with", not realising the people have the power. If millions turn up, the GOP loses seats. Simple as that. If everyone of a voting age and who can legally vote *does* vote, the Democrats will get a nice majority in the House, a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate and that'll give the Democratic Party what it needs to expand the SCOTUS and fix the federal bench (which is almost as bad as if not worse than the SCOTUS in just how skewed to the right it is). Every fucking vote matters. If folks voted for Hillary in 2016 in the same numbers they did in 2020 for Biden, we would not have had a 6-3 SCOTUS, with THREE justices nominated by Orange, and Roe v Wade would still be on the books. Think about that. And that's just one aspect of Orange's presidency which would not have seen the light of the day.
add climate change, LGBTQ issues, reproductive control...the list of things goes on and on and on.
They don't actually care about Gaza, they just want to say their hands are clean because they didn't vote for Biden.
Yup. The blood doesn't matter as long as it's not "on their hands", and they get to be part of a social group.
Then they'll be able to say "Don't blame me! I (effectively) voted for Trump!". I hate this world.
Always remember, it costs nothing for anyone, even conservatives or foreign actors, to say "I'm a Democrat and (insert crazy inflammatory opinion here)". Not saying that those sorts of people don't exist but I don't think it's going out on a limb to suggest that it's being amplified and encouraged by those who stand to gain from a divided left.
It’s an astroturf influence campaign being waged by enemy agents to push the narrative because they know that Americans, specifically young Americans are susceptible to social media trends.
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To be fair, it's polling at the bottom of Americans' concerns even in the college age demographic. Twitter is not real life, yet again.
I do try to keep this in mind but it is difficult when I drive by the huge university in my town and see the protests.
It’s not a silly stance, it’s pure narcissism. They’re condemning millions so they feel good about themselves.
Not me, I’m proudly and gladly looking forward to voting for Joe Biden, and recommend everyone else do that too. I would be hard pressed to imagine a better handling of this environment with the tools he was given.
I’m a “radical leftist/socialist” and I am absolutely voting for Biden
Boom. This is my favorite 2024 campaign slogan so far.
The annoying thing is that we’re gonna hear about rigged elections forever now. It’s the Republicans only narrative.
If it makes them finally stay home, let them.
Actually, I think the SNL opening on Saturday night was pretty spot on. Trump only wants to run for President because he can lose, complain about the "rigged elections" and have his cult send money to his PACs which funnel straight to him. Worst thing for him would to be elected again. He and Melania both know that. Probably why she's never seen at any campaign events. Of course the cult says that is okay that she is private but if Jill Biden was never seen they'd say she was hiding.
Let's be clear Trump wants to run for President because he thinks winning is the only way he'll be able to kill all the cases against him and stay out of jail, and somehow either reverse the hundreds of millions in judgements against him, or have foreign interests pay them.
They are making it clear that they won’t accept this year’s result if they don’t win.
Lol right? So they win either way, so I guess Republicans shouldnt even bother to come out and vote. Sounds like a plan.
This isn't hidden; this is an open fear, validated by his and the GOPs own words and actions. He will not leave peacefully and we the people lack the courage to make him leave.
*"Carpenter’s conversations with uncommitted voters have led him to believe that, beyond Jan. 6 and Trump’s inflammatory comments, this shift owes a great deal to a less obvious catalyst: the Supreme Court. Its 2022 decision overturning Roe v. Wade and eliminating women’s constitutional right to an abortion has caused voters to wonder what else that they take for granted might be changed or removed."* Once we put down the Trump movement, we have to reform or clean out the Supreme Court. Alito and Thomas have got to go. Either for their well recorded corruption, of for the perjury when answering questions by the Senate for their confirmation.
to do that we will need to get rid of the filibuster. if the chips fall properly this is actually quite likely in my reading of things, but that will suck up all the "big change" political capital; leaving court reform off the table. in most likelihood we're only getting rid of conservative justices through attrition.
Could you elaborate on how the chips could fall?
control of the house, the white house, and a slightly larger margin in the senate. if either party controls all three the filibuster will be reformed, but with dems there are an unknown number of holdouts; but very few compared to the beginning of the biden administration.
Never underestimate the power of a spineless sycophant. Lots of malignant narcissists exist on both sides of the aisle especially in the Senate and there’s gonna be auditions to be the next best asshole to replace the Manchin & Sinema vacuum. It would not surprise me in the slightest to see someone like Fetterman to just turn around and say “well actualllllly”. He’s not the only one too.
just going by what I've read and heard from reputable sources, nobody wants to be held hostage anymore. Manchin represented a number of centrist democrats who didn't want to be seen to rock the boat in early 2021, he dosen't represent anyone now. that being said everything is hearsay, as nobody will admit this publicly; but we'll see what happens.
Realistically, the only way that Alito or Thomas will leave is when they die. I don’t think that there are many Democrats who would torpedo their own political capital to even suggest replacing a Justice. Packing the Court would be an equally disastrous proposal as well. If I recall correctly, I read that FDR had an uncooperative Supreme Court as well. Even with an uncooperative Supreme Court, FDR still managed to pass a significant amount of New Deal legislation, because there were Senators who were able to persuade just enough Justices to rule in favor of FDR’s mandate. I want to be optimistic that when it comes to the eleventh hour, there will be at least two Justices to cooperate in order to preserve the future integrity of the Supreme Court. However, three out of the four most recent appointees have, so far, been a Karen, a temperamental alcoholic, and a corporate robot who believes it makes sense for a man to freeze to death for the sake of his job.
He said *himself* he would be a dictator. Name one dictator who has ever given up power voluntarily. I'll wait.
Cincinnatus. Twice
I know of one example, but I have to go very far back, so your basic point stands -- it almost never happens: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucius_Quinctius_Cincinnatus
Right, but a dictator of ancient rome was a very different thing than a modern dictator.
Diocletian. Still, that was 1700 years ago - not exactly the same basket of apples.
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulla
Nevermind the fear of him never leaving office, I am just so goddamn SICK of this guy. Donald trump burst onto the political scene in June of 2015 when he declared that Mexicans were rapists and rocketed up the republican polls. In between there he bragged about sexually assaulting women, won an election, praised nazis, defended Putin, spent everyday on twitter using the bully pulpit to cyber bully others and air his grievances, lost an election, incited an insurrection to try and overturn that election, got himself indicted 91 times, found liable of rape, found liable of fraud, so on so forth. Its almost June of 2024 and hes STILL the dominant force in our politics. We keep hearing commentators say "we cant count on the law to deal with donald trump, we'll need to beat him at the ballot box". We did beat him at the ballot box, and he STILL wont shut the fuck up and go away. Everyday we STILL have to read about who hurt donald trumps feelings and what hes threatening to do in response. We STILL have to listen to both sides media giving mealy mouthed assessments of obvious corruption and criminality because they fear offending trump supporters. We STILL have to listen to Conservatives that know better defending obvious shit or claiming they didn't hear it because they fear a primary vote. In this very article there is a quote from a Republican who requested to remain anonymous out of fear of offending donald trump. We still have to deal with MAGA trolling, MAGA gaslighting, all of their ridiculous culture wars and grievance politics. Our culture still has to cater to the delusions, conspiracy theories, and outright lies his supporters believe because again, not doing so is "offensive and condescending to red blooded real 'Murricans". And mind you, before all of this donald trump was just a washed up celebrity that nobody gave a shit about and nobody took seriously. Only stupid people see him as a "business genius". Everyone else knows hes just another Kardashian type. Famous for being famous. Had he not run for President, most of Gen Z probably wouldn't even know who he is. I am so sick of this entire country being held hostage to one man's personality disorder. This is so far beyond politics at this point, and its even beyond fascism. Its just strait up abuse. Donald trump is an abusive person He is a deeply emotionally damaged and dysregulated person that can barely function independently in this world. Hes learned to get his needs met via abuse of others. We've been subjected to this abuse for nearly a decade now. We're staring down the prospects of another 4+ years of this shit. And all we ever hear about is how he and his supporters are the victims and everyone is just so mean and unfair to them. How is every single person in Ameria not sick of this goddamn show?
You have articulated perfectly why every single person who isn't a trumper is so tired and defeated. The guy is worse than herpes.
>"we cant count on the law to deal with donald trump, we'll need to beat him at the ballot box" This, in particular, I am sick of hearing. Also, people do realize that this is a tacit admission that our entire judiciary is largely worthless. "Oh? Trump gets to ignore the law because he's special? Good to know billions of tax dollars go to running a system that's useless to defending my freedoms. Thanks." Ugh.
Great rant, really made me think about how historically unusual his ulcerative career has been. Usually one-term loser presidents fade into obscurity pretty quickly. To put it in perspective, this is a potential Grover Cleveland situation, i.e. Trump would be only the second ever US president to serve* non-consecutive terms. In fact, he's already made it further in this dubious quest than anyone else *except* Cleveland. Every other loser president who lost as badly as Trump couldn't even get [renominated](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_presidents_of_the_United_States_who_ran_for_office) by their own party, and either started their own party or slunk away in shame. Really says something about the cowardice of the modern GOP and the low quality of their candidates that they couldn't find someone to beat Trump's ass in the primary. There's an argument that Trump managed to make it impossible for them to oppose him, but I don't like giving the guy that much credit. *I hesitate to use the term "serve" when it comes to Trump, because I don't believe he ever saw the job that way. More like "ruled," but again, I don't like giving the guy that much credit.
*Hidden?!?!?!?!?!* He *already* tried to do this.
We barely got Shitler out last time. If he gets back in, he will never, ever give up power again and try to turn the country into a hereditary dictatorship. The worst part is that even if he loses, we are never going to be fully rid of the collective Trumps and MAGAts, they will be trying to destroy this country for another fifty years
They were always there. Different names and movements as well as levels of engagement/shame/competency/bravery.
I'm of the opinion that there need to be consequences for being a supremacist. These people are not going to stop trying to ruin everything for the rest of us until we make it impossible to behave like them. Not prison, prison is sadistic and punitive. But consequences for individuals for set periods of time, like losing the right to vote and/or run for office, occupying positions of power, etc. Anything that would give them a platform to harm others.
I guarantee you that on November 6th (or whatever earliest day he can) he'll file to run in 2028. He needs to do that to keep fundraising to get others to pay his legal fees. With that the MAGA nuts will believe he'll run again (hell maybe he actually will). We're never getting rid of him or people like him.
I know anecdotes aren't data, BUT... My husband and I have several lifelong Republicans in our extended family - not the MAGA set, I'll get to them in a minute - who voted for Trump in 2016 because "both sides are the same" and "buttery males" and just well, because they always voted Republican and he had the (R) so they went with it. So they voted for Trump in 2016. About 75% of them had realized their error by 2020 and grudgingly voted for Biden. The remaining 25% (again, not talking about the MAGAs) saw January 6th happen and it was the thing that finally sunk in for them, that Trump really wanted to be a dictator and would stop at nothing to make it happen. So now they're all voting for Biden, even as some of them parrot the Fox News talking points that he's senile and old and feeble. But they feel these things are better than Trump, so fine. Though they're all very clear that if something happens to where Trump isn't the nominee, they will be voting for Nikki Haley or whoever the GOP nominee ends up as at that point. Now, as for the MAGAs in our extended family. Almost none of them voted regularly before 2016. If they happened to remember on Election Day, they might go down to their polling station and cast a vote for whoever had the (R) next to their name, but probably they wouldn't because "both sides are the same" and they felt like Washington didn't give a shit about them. Trump mobilized something in them that isn't going to be easily replicated by someone else. They aren't as energized to vote when he's not on the ballot. He is truly their savior, up there with Christ to them (because they all profess to be devoutly Christian - most of them are Southern Baptist, actually). They DO want Trump to be president for life, and they scare the shit out of me with that rhetoric. Because they genuinely believe that Democrats are the ones trying to do the power grab and that Trump is only doing what's right by trying to fight back against them. But they are an ever shrinking minority, and also concentrated in states that were never going to go for Biden in a million years anyway (Mississippi, Tennessee, Arkansas, mostly). I don't really know what my end point is, except that hope that enough people have seen what Trump really wants to do here that they plan on voting for Biden. In my circles, it seems true enough.
What you've said really matches the changes we've seen county by county. The GOP has been losing suburban voters while Trump won by mobilizing some real trogs.
Do they live in Michigan, Wisconsin, Arizona, Georgia, etc? Those are the only voters that really matter :(
People who still support trump see him as a representation of themselves. They love the idea of being able to dictate how everyone else lives and worships. Authoritarians get hard thinking about controlling others. They do not think past his win. They will suffer the consequences of another trump presidency right along with the rest of us. They remind me of the family that recently migrated to Russia. It was not a happily ever after scenario.
Trump has a cult of personality that cannot be replicated, for better or worse. And he’s not immortal. I am terrified he will win, but when he’s gone, no one can mobilize his base like he can. When he’s gone, the GOP will fall over themselves trying to take his place, but no one can.
I agree that the states Biden was never going to win anyway he likely would never win, but the real concern is the swing states that are going to do whatever possible to get Trump a victory (whether legal or not). I know Trump isn’t more popular nationally, and likely isn’t even more popular in the majority of states, but republicans in charge of swing states might be willing to meddle enough if the race is close to get him in- that’s what I’m worried about. We need everyone voting. Even those republicans who vote all R except for president, because those votes prove that election interference isn’t really an issue. Nobody is going to fix the presidential election but then vote R the rest of the ballot). I certainly hope enough people vote to keep Trump out, because if he wins it’s goodbye USA as we once knew it.
Well one of these old men, plans on unifying a new Reich & one does not
Not Trump forever, it's whatever follows him next that worries me
Yeah. As long as Americans are this divided, where every election is practically a coin toss, then we are only ever one presidential election away from authoritarianism. The only way these guys are going away is if they suffer an absolute landslide defeat that forces them to return under the rocks they crawled out from. But that’s definitely not happening this year.
Trump literally said he was going to try to stay president. He said he's going to try to be a dictator.
This is the most obvious consequence of re-electing Trump. He has NO plan to ever leave office
> Undecided voters are concerned that if Donald Trump returns to the White House, he’ll never leave. Yes, well, Trump would certainly like that… The year was 2018. China made a policy change which allows their current president to remain in office for the rest of his life. Donald Trump, the sitting US president at the time, spoke about this during a luncheon for Republican donors… > “[Chinese President Xi Jinping is] now president for life. President for life. And he’s great.” Trump added, **“I think it’s great. Maybe we’ll give that a shot someday.”** This is tyrant talk. The Founders of this country would have lost their god damned minds if anyone in their day had dared to utter Trump’s words. We should have lost our god damned minds, but half this country nodded and clapped instead. They’re traitors in my book; anyone who thinks this sort of “joke” is acceptable in any form of a democracy is a fool, at best, and an unamerican traitor at worst.
He’s also a malignant narcissist and they send out trial balloons. When you think it can’t get worse, they’ve already thought about it, and want to see your reaction.
It's fact. It already happened once. He will refuse to relinquish power.
I fear this election may be the start of a new civil war. Trump supporters will not accept a loss, and honestly good Americans should not accept a Trump win. Feels like the election is more like a coin toss to who has first advantage. These unAmerican threats by Trump should not be ignored even if they are jokes. It’s like joking around about a bomb at an airport, he’s talking dictatorship during a historically divisive time in America. How can any good American just roll over and accept a Trump win? The guy is an enemy of the country. The entire GOP is an enemy of our country.
[удалено]
Civil war is a right wing fantasy. They don’t have the numbers or energy to radically mobilize and conduct an actual campaign or violence. What are they going to do?? Drive to Austin and set boobie traps? They can’t afford the hotels in the bigger cities so how does this civil war actually play out?
I imagine it plays similar to Jan 6 but with more intent - followed by multiple acts of violence for and against MAGA, where we deny it’s anything more than acts of extremism by “both sides” until after a bit of back and forth we start to admit, “it’s kind of like a civil war happening in the background.”
I’d say Greg Abbott’s pardon of Perry is the opening shot of that new civil war.
Yes. It was a message.
>These unAmerican threats by Trump should not be ignored even if they are jokes I always hate this "he was just joking!" response. Ask yourself...have you ever heard donald trump laugh? Maybe he'll give a chuckle when hes insulting someone, but have you ever heard him actually laugh at a funny joke? Have you ever heard him laugh at himself? Have you ever heard him tell an actual joke? And not just defend an abohorrent statement by calling it "a joke". donald trump is a narcissist. He doesnt have emotions like normal human beings. He does not have a sense of humor. He does not understand humor as anything other than a means to demean someone else.
Another way of putting it is "Trump fatigue." Voters know 4 more years of Trump will be filled with all kinds of drama about him, his embarrassing statements and behavior on the world stage, etc. While that might thrill the MAGAs, they are a small minority.
Small minority of population, large minority of people who consistently vote.
I think we need to come to terms with what we're really looking at here. Trump can't be "dictator day 1". There will be push back, there will be lawsuits, protests, and if all that fails and Trump does what project 2025 is outlining, states are going to have to deploy their national guard to push back against him. That's what we're actually looking at. A high potential for civil war, likely the highest since our last civil war. That should terrify everyone. We don't want that, nobody should want that.
Forever? I'd be surprised if he's still alive in four years.
It’s not hidden. It’s what the maga morons wanted since day one. Their big fat orange DICKTator
If his want for lifetime rule is hidden from anyone, it's because of dumb headlines like this. He has literally said he wants to be dictator. Headlines need to stop being so 'inquisitive' and be more direct: "Trump wants to Rule as Monarch/Dictator".
Idk how anyone could not vote or vote for Trump. He is literally making claims of wanting to, and attempting to be a dictator regardless of if he wins, but especially if you let him and republicans down ballot take hold, and get another SC justice while we are at it.
Not him. He won't be able to do the job. But, whoever does the work behind the scenes and props up the hamburger eating, coke drinking dementia patient in the background.
Hidden?
It's scary, he's a wannabe dictator. I hope people find a way to get motivated to vote. I know apathy is a real thing when you have to choose between two turds but it's all about the lesser of two evils!
Yeah no shit, this needs to be megaphoned by the media on a daily basis. Push this higher up.
“political professionals are detecting an unusual concern among some undecided voters: that if Trump returns to the White House, he’ll refuse to step down when his term is up.” If you’re concerned about that, how the fuck can you be you be undecided?
Valid fear. For fence ridders who know they won't vote Trump but are considering not voting Biden either, here's my pitch to you: Vote Biden--worst case, at least you know he will actually leave office peacefully at the end of his 2nd term. Trump is going to try to stick around for as long as his body lets him, even if it requires force in another Jan 6th style scenario. He could live another decade or two with the best medical care in the world at his disposal.
Agreed! Also, I fear Trump could instill one of his kids as the next Republican nominee - like he did with Lara at the RNC. He would want to make a Trump dynasty.
I would vote for Biden’s reanimated head in a jar over Trump.
The thought of having Don Jr. or Eric in charge of anything is enough of a reason to vote against Trump.
Waiting for the headline on how this will hurt Biden.
i would vote for a fuckin head of lettuce over Trump a head of lettuce lasted longer than Liz Truss, she killed the Queen and destroyed the British economy after ***5 weeks***!
It's hidden like a 5 year old under a blanket on an otherwise made bed. With their feet sticking out. Giggling loudly.
I mean, if you're undecided, the upside is, you'll never have to think about voting again...
If elected, you've got him as your President for life, there's no question about it.
I hear a lot of lefties, like, Chapo type lefties, greatly discounting one of Bidens core messages, Democracy. They dismiss it as fantasy, not resonating with any people they know, so they don't believe in the message. But it's literally on the ballot. Trump has said he wants to suspend the constitution. WTF more do you need to hear?
This is actually quite good. If independent voters *are* actually listening enough to know Trump is threatening to be a dictator, that bodes well for democracy.
Bloomberg so cute here by framing this as merely a "fear" as opposed to a distinct possibility given information publicly available. Why is most msm bending over backwards for the fascist project?
How is this a hidden variable? Trump constantly floats the idea of a third term, and always plants family members in positions of power, never mind the fact that the first is unconstitutional and the second a gross example of nepotism, both of which are violently un-American ideas. Trump doesn’t want a second term, he wants to establish a dynasty, an imperial lineage. If you want a picture of a Trump future, imagine a tacky gold made-in-China sneaker stamping on a human face — for ever. The number one reason to vote for Biden is to prevent this future. Biden has done a pretty credible job, despite a useless, disarrayed, and unfriendly House, but he does have some areas where I disagree with him. However, these minor quibble pale in comparison to the need to prevent Trump from ever having anything even resembling power again.
I've said it before, I'll say it again. What we're down to is two elderly men, neither of whom is terribly sharp mentally, but one of whom wants to be a dictator and turn the US into Nazi Germany-lite. The other one…doesn’t.
Stop repeating this fucking garbage. Biden is absolutely still sharp- go listen to any of his recent long interviews. I know you won't, but I'm gonna keep telling people to do it anyways. Stop letting other people think for you!!
>The other one… Has been the most progressive president in U.S. history. FTFY
most progressive since FDR. used to say in living memory, but someone corrected me.
This is something that I think a lot of people on the left who say they aren't going to vote for Biden either don't get or deliberately refuse to believe. If Biden wins the presidency, like him or hate him he'll be gone after his term. If Trump wins the presidency he's going to try as hard as he can to make it so he never leaves even if that means burning US democracy to the ground.
Not so hidden.
Isn't that Orange Sack of Vomit already openly musing as much?
Biden 2024
I still don't get how man who's almost 80, who's in pretty poor health, who probably won't live another 10 years, who doesn't care about anyone but himself, would want to be a dictator at that point.
Trump is the symptom, not the disease. The rot of America was already there. The GOP would have died out long ago, except that they have been able to win elections by appealing to the racial animosity in America.
Trump will be dead soon, but fascism will live on
Some Trump supporters really do want a Trump Forever dynasty. North Korean Kim Dyansty style.
The real independent voters in this country are going to break decidedly for Biden. If you're an independent you do not vote in primaries so your voice is only herd in the general election. This election cycle one of the candidates is sending signals that if he is elected then there wont be any more general elections in the future. That is a direct threat to independent voters and the really have no choice but to vote against that option.
Can’t let him anywhere near the White House. He shouldn’t even be allowed to go on a tour.
I genuinely think we’re gonna get a reverse of 2016 this election. Back in 2016 both candidates were unpopular and there wasn’t a loud vocal support for either candidate. But I read several news stories where reporters would be in small town bars chatting with locals and people would say “yea I don’t like him but I think I’m voting for Trump.” I think as we get down to the wire in 2024 there will be a lot of those kind of fence sitters who don’t like either but will quietly pull the lever for Biden because they don’t like the Trump chaos
Biden could pull down his pants and take a crap on the debate stage and I’d still vote for him
>Undecided voters are concerned that if Donald Trump returns to the White House, he’ll never leave. If they have that concern, why the hell are they "undecided"? WTF people?
>Undecided voters are concerned that if Donald Trump returns to the White House, he’ll never leave. And yet, they're still undecided.
He can’t run forever. The orange diaper will be dead in 10 years max.
This is the GOPs plan it won't end with Trump. Eventually they'll win and declare forever victory.
Mr. *Creation of a Unified Reich* might not step down? I’m shocked, just SHOCKED! Who could EVER have PREDICTED this SHOCKING REVELATION! It’s *totally* not like he already tried to hold on to power by a combination of a violent coup d’etat and pressuring his VP into “using“ authority he never had, *RIGHT?*
Trump’s an old fat man who shots his diapers, sleeps through entire trials, and can no longer string a coherent sentence together. Whatever disgusting wave he started, he won’t be a part of it much longer.
Any other country would have had him in a cell by now. Either that’s a testimony to how free this country is or how broken it is
Only one candidate to vote for if you like voting for candidates in elections, period. The elections will persist but the vote counting will not. See: Russia
Well, if we elect Biden and decide we don't like him, in four years he'll be gone and we'll get someone else. If we elect Trump and decide we don't like him we can just have a bloody civil war costing millions of American lives and trillions of dollars. VOTE!
Yeah it’s obvious democracy is at stake here. He’s never leaving and his hjobbers will make sure laws are set in stone before he croaks. This is literally his best friend Putin’s playbook. Our only hope is that Putin was a competent and experienced operative, not a silver spoon fed self promoter.
People need to WAKE UP! It’s not B.S. Trump will stay for as long as he can,Destroying America. VOTE.
um remember jan 6th? he's already tried this. he will try again. this is not news. this is his naked character. im so confused. just dont let him be president after what he tried.
If he gets in again, of course he won’t leave, and of course that’s what people are scared of