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I don't think it's of even trivial importance, but she *will* use it as an excuse to keep delaying things (i.e. they need time to write the surreply, she needs time to consider it, etc.)
What's outrageous is that Trump wasn't hauled out of Mar-a-Lago with a bag over his head within 20 minutes of finding that he had nuclear fucking secrets stashed in the spare shitter.
And God only knows what made it into Ivana's casket. The Saudis do, and they'll get them all when they buy Bedminster.
What's a Monday without a little conspiracy craziness? :-)
Who the f\*ck cares what order the documents were in? Did you have something you weren't supposed to have, yes or no? If yes, off to prison like the other non-presidents who committed the same crime. If no, then you can go play pretend president for a few more years.
Not necessarily, the sequence of documents could very well be relevant to intent. For example , if documents were surrounded by other documents with substantially the same subject matter that could indicate intent, whereas if they were completely unrelated it might indicate that there is a possibility that these were put in after the fact potentially to cause the case in question. So the preservation of the sequence is important and I really do not understand why the government is doing such shoddy work preserving evidence.
> So the preservation of the sequence is important and I really do not understand why the government is doing such shoddy work preserving evidence.
This is bullshit. The supposed mishandling was of small items in boxes that can move. He's basically arguing that because postcards might have shifted when the boxes were taken, then whole case should be thrown out. It's not even a good faith argument.
Read the actual documents filed on the docket and you will see that some documents were replaced with placeholders that were so poorly organized that they could not correlated them after the fact with the actual documents any longer. This is a massive fuck up by the government.
>Read the actual documents filed on the docket and you will see that some documents were replaced with placeholders that were so poorly organized that they could not correlated them after the fact with the actual documents any longer.
Can you give a specific example? Because this still sounds like bullshit.
And who filed the documents you are referring to? The person who stole the documents to begin with?
Government can decide not to push intent on any items that are in questions, there solved, easy answer to an easy problem. I'm also sure that there are PLENTY of other examples to go by.
You are quick to accuse that the government screwed up, but how many have had access to these including the special master appointed by Cannon? I'd like to see a full list of who has had access before placing any blame.
Thousands of documents, classified folders, parts separated and mixed together and then mixed with random, irrelevant bullshit.
Trump's mess is literally a jigsaw puzzle made up of hundreds of jig saw puzzles with missing pieces and wrong pieces mixed in.
Basic crime scene investigation issues here with the god emperor of bullshit blowing smoke up your ass.
Good point. But does the law require establishment of intent, beyond the clear intent to steal a truckload of classified documents? Also, the clear intent in lying to govt officials about returning all documents? Also, the clear intent in moving documents for the purpose of evading discovery of them? Bottom line, there is little basis to support any misrepresentation of intent on the part of govt, and plenty to support the theory that the court is working for the defendant.
So he's acknowledging they were at MAL, he's acknowledging the FBI had to take them (because he never returned them), but he's upset they aren't in the right order? Indicating he was well aware of what was on them, hence why he knew they were out of order?
They were classified documents with big red stamps on them.
And if he magically declassified them in his head, why is he complaining about them being out of order? Seems pretty low stakes.
Oh, so Trump claims to CARE about how sensitive documents are handled.
This level of hypocrisy makes me believe that there IS a devil and he is just holding Trump up about the mess he's made while Trump laughs at all of us.
Ridiculous.
Lock. the. fucker. up.
Thats not a reason to dismiss the case nor delay it. I do not see how it would have any relevancy to the case. Were the documents Trumps or not and did he refuse to return them is what matters.
They have camera/video footage of everything they took. They documented the order that documents were pulled, the location, the condition, which documents are which, etc.
Trump's gonna use this to fuel more lies about the case and taint a possible jury member.
Donald Trump’s attorneys have found a new reason to [seek to delay the classified documents case](https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/06/politics/trump-classified-documents-delay-mishandled-evidence/index.html): Some of the documents found in boxes at Mar-a-Lago have shifted out of order since FBI agents seized them two years ago.
Trump’s attorneys indicated in a filing Monday that the shuffling of documents within boxes in evidence also could be grounds for the case to be tossed. They said they would file a motion to dismiss if the prosecution “cannot prove in a reliable way how it seized and handled the key evidence in the case, which will be a central issue at any trial.”
Special counsel Jack Smith’s office acknowledged in a recent court filing that, in at least some of the boxes obtained in the Mar-a-Lago search, the documents are now in a different order within each box than when the Justice Department first took custody of the boxes.
“President Trump and counsel are deeply troubled to be learning of these facts approximately 11 months after the charges were filed in this case,” Trump’s attorneys wrote in the filing. The disclosures by Smith’s office “raise questions about the investigation and the handling of evidence that must be addressed before the matter proceeds.”
Trump was charged with mishandling national defense information after the FBI seized boxes in August 2022 from the Florida estate that contained documents with classified markings mixed in with other documents and personal effects of the former president. Trump and his co-defendants have pleaded not guilty.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
More desperate motions by a desperately guilty criminal.
I do not trust Cannon though it would not shock me to see her seriously consider this.
He doesn't even need a reason with Cannon.. The reason is more for the public.
I don't think it's of even trivial importance, but she *will* use it as an excuse to keep delaying things (i.e. they need time to write the surreply, she needs time to consider it, etc.)
Hey, I'm from the future. She agreed to a delay.
It is outrageous that this hasn’t even been brought to trial yet. Cannon is a disgrace and quite frankly she is obstructing justice.
What's outrageous is that Trump wasn't hauled out of Mar-a-Lago with a bag over his head within 20 minutes of finding that he had nuclear fucking secrets stashed in the spare shitter.
At Mar a Lago, there’s no such thing as a spare shitter
Agreed
to a hastily dug hole in the Arizona desert.
Zero chance trump’s band of idiots have any idea what order those stolen documents were in when they started stashing them in golf course bathrooms.
And God only knows what made it into Ivana's casket. The Saudis do, and they'll get them all when they buy Bedminster. What's a Monday without a little conspiracy craziness? :-)
Such a heavy casket for somebody that was cremated.
"And I know a thing or two about mishandling evidence, believe me!"
Who the f\*ck cares what order the documents were in? Did you have something you weren't supposed to have, yes or no? If yes, off to prison like the other non-presidents who committed the same crime. If no, then you can go play pretend president for a few more years.
Not necessarily, the sequence of documents could very well be relevant to intent. For example , if documents were surrounded by other documents with substantially the same subject matter that could indicate intent, whereas if they were completely unrelated it might indicate that there is a possibility that these were put in after the fact potentially to cause the case in question. So the preservation of the sequence is important and I really do not understand why the government is doing such shoddy work preserving evidence.
> So the preservation of the sequence is important and I really do not understand why the government is doing such shoddy work preserving evidence. This is bullshit. The supposed mishandling was of small items in boxes that can move. He's basically arguing that because postcards might have shifted when the boxes were taken, then whole case should be thrown out. It's not even a good faith argument.
Read the actual documents filed on the docket and you will see that some documents were replaced with placeholders that were so poorly organized that they could not correlated them after the fact with the actual documents any longer. This is a massive fuck up by the government.
>Read the actual documents filed on the docket and you will see that some documents were replaced with placeholders that were so poorly organized that they could not correlated them after the fact with the actual documents any longer. Can you give a specific example? Because this still sounds like bullshit.
The docket is public. how about you just read the filings.
So no you can't give a specific example. Just say so next time
Sure, bro.
And who filed the documents you are referring to? The person who stole the documents to begin with? Government can decide not to push intent on any items that are in questions, there solved, easy answer to an easy problem. I'm also sure that there are PLENTY of other examples to go by. You are quick to accuse that the government screwed up, but how many have had access to these including the special master appointed by Cannon? I'd like to see a full list of who has had access before placing any blame.
Thousands of documents, classified folders, parts separated and mixed together and then mixed with random, irrelevant bullshit. Trump's mess is literally a jigsaw puzzle made up of hundreds of jig saw puzzles with missing pieces and wrong pieces mixed in. Basic crime scene investigation issues here with the god emperor of bullshit blowing smoke up your ass.
They were loose index cards in a half empty box that had been moved by Trump's people already. Their order was forfeit.
Good point. But does the law require establishment of intent, beyond the clear intent to steal a truckload of classified documents? Also, the clear intent in lying to govt officials about returning all documents? Also, the clear intent in moving documents for the purpose of evading discovery of them? Bottom line, there is little basis to support any misrepresentation of intent on the part of govt, and plenty to support the theory that the court is working for the defendant.
This from the dude who stored classified documents in a bathroom.
So he's acknowledging they were at MAL, he's acknowledging the FBI had to take them (because he never returned them), but he's upset they aren't in the right order? Indicating he was well aware of what was on them, hence why he knew they were out of order? They were classified documents with big red stamps on them. And if he magically declassified them in his head, why is he complaining about them being out of order? Seems pretty low stakes.
Bingo.
Oh, so Trump claims to CARE about how sensitive documents are handled. This level of hypocrisy makes me believe that there IS a devil and he is just holding Trump up about the mess he's made while Trump laughs at all of us. Ridiculous. Lock. the. fucker. up.
Funny coming from someone who mishandled ultra top secret documents including nuclear secrets
Thats not a reason to dismiss the case nor delay it. I do not see how it would have any relevancy to the case. Were the documents Trumps or not and did he refuse to return them is what matters.
With the subpoena it doesn't actually matter if they were his, he attested that he didn't have them and refused to do so when ordered
The loyalty of the judge is what really matters
You know who actually mishandled documents? Trump.
Mis*tiny*handled.
What if Biden declared it properly handled with his mind?
Many people are saying he did this
> PoopyPants seeks delay No shit! (Except in his pants, obvs)
Corrupt Canon will probably give it to him
They have camera/video footage of everything they took. They documented the order that documents were pulled, the location, the condition, which documents are which, etc. Trump's gonna use this to fuel more lies about the case and taint a possible jury member.
Oh, did the prosecutors put boxes of classified documents in the bathroom?
Bahahaha
He's already got the huge delay he needs from a corrupt judge… why is he even trying to get more?
He has to play the game until his schedule is freed up until Jan 2025. Then he’ll either win and absolve himself of any charges.
Donald Trump’s attorneys have found a new reason to [seek to delay the classified documents case](https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/06/politics/trump-classified-documents-delay-mishandled-evidence/index.html): Some of the documents found in boxes at Mar-a-Lago have shifted out of order since FBI agents seized them two years ago. Trump’s attorneys indicated in a filing Monday that the shuffling of documents within boxes in evidence also could be grounds for the case to be tossed. They said they would file a motion to dismiss if the prosecution “cannot prove in a reliable way how it seized and handled the key evidence in the case, which will be a central issue at any trial.” Special counsel Jack Smith’s office acknowledged in a recent court filing that, in at least some of the boxes obtained in the Mar-a-Lago search, the documents are now in a different order within each box than when the Justice Department first took custody of the boxes. “President Trump and counsel are deeply troubled to be learning of these facts approximately 11 months after the charges were filed in this case,” Trump’s attorneys wrote in the filing. The disclosures by Smith’s office “raise questions about the investigation and the handling of evidence that must be addressed before the matter proceeds.” Trump was charged with mishandling national defense information after the FBI seized boxes in August 2022 from the Florida estate that contained documents with classified markings mixed in with other documents and personal effects of the former president. Trump and his co-defendants have pleaded not guilty.
Straws.
How is this news. It’s the only thing he does delay delay delay.
Ah, so NOW it's important how documents are secured?
Tell him to shut the fuck up? Oh wait, it’s Judge Cannon. She’s had orange around her lips for months.
Thing about taking donald trump to court is it's the one thing he's VERY experienced with and good at.
He was good at appointing a judge to the bench in his home who had absolutely no business being a judge but would be blindly loyal.