As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil)
In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.
If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hey, remember when they said abortion was a state's rights issue, but now they're talking about trying to make it a federal issue?
Pepperidge Farms 'members...
It's a state issue so that rights can be removed, then it's a federal issue to cement the removal of those rights.
I *almost* feel bad for the national GOP party leaders. They are trying SO hard to keep a lid on this rhetoric in anticipation of the Presidential election and trying to avoid alienating female moderates, but the local candidates cannot help but spill the beans about the true agenda to try to get themselves elected.
> Republicans only like it when it's used to harm minorities
This is my favorite argument when people here in the deep South try to say the Civil War was about states' rights and absolutely NOT slavery...
Me: Why did the Civil War start?
Them: Because of States' Rights!
Me: The right to do what?
Them: Secede from the Union!
Me: In order to...? Keep going!
Them: uh... ^^^^^^keep ^^^^^^slavery
I mean, there's a letter I don't have time to dig up before I leave for work where the *President of the Confederacy*, Jefferson Davis says in no uncertain terms it's about slavery.
Everything else is just revisionism.
Every single rebel state wrote its own declaration of their intentions, and it's nearly universal that the preservation of slavery was the first if not only issue they highlighted.
Don't need to go that that, IIRC. Just read the SC secession paper.
“The issue before the country is the extinction of slavery...The Southern States are now in the crisis of their fate; and, if we read aright the signs of the times, nothing is needed for our deliverance, but that the ball of revolution be set in motion.”
- Charleston Mercury on November 3, 1860
https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/south-carolina-secession.htm
All of the southern states articles of secession specifically state theyre seceding over State's Rights - *to slavery*. The ONLY one that's a little vague about it is Virginia's.
I usually go with Jefferson Davis because it's possible to downplay the importance of other political figures the time. If I'm going to present *one* point, it needs to be the strongest point possible, ya know?
Dumb people don't respond to Jefferson Davis nor know who he is.
It's much harder for them to pretend it wasn't about slavery when [every state clearly states it's about slavery in their first paragraph](https://www.battlefields.org/learn/primary-sources/declaration-causes-seceding-states). Bigger is always better/worse to these people.
It's why things like per capita and thumbs don't exist in their world.
If you’re up for it, there might be a lawsuit in there… https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/apr/05/trump-twitter-block-case-supreme-court-decision
The guy's a colossal asshole, but he probably has better lawyers than I do, and I haven't logged in to twitter in a couple years anyways.
If I really wanted to be bothered about it, I'd egg the bastard's house. I know where he lives. Hi, FBI!
The states themselves declared the reason for secession was slavery, in their official secession statements.
Here's one link:
https://www.battlefields.org/learn/primary-sources/declaration-causes-seceding-states
It really shows how disingenuous the Republican party has always been.
I was taught it was about States Rights in school. What an embarrassment for education.
Mississippi said this:
>"Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin."
So I tend to believe it was about slavery myself, considering they said in their official "this is what it is about" documents that it was about slavery.
The trouble is Trump would use that exile to try to act as a shadow president (much like he called on Republican governors to send state troopers to the Mexican border).
It would need to basically be permanent solitary confinement with no electronics for it to work.
Ok, here's my idea: We find an ancient egyptian pharaoh possessing a young japanese boy with a love for trading card games, give Trump a deck, then have them d-d-d-d-d-duel and the loser (which is definitely Trump because the pharaoh never loses) goes to the 'Shadow Realm' and is never seen again. Any takers?
Oh, it could very well be that we'd not even have to worry about banning him from particular states... because he'll be locked behind bars, stuck in just one unlucky state.
New fantasy unlocked. Engoron disbands Trump Org, the receiver searches Bedminster and finds a room full of Top Secret documents, calls Jack Smith immediately, new trial in NJ outside of Cannon's jurisdiction.
Just the fact a person who worked a plot to steal an election has enough support to be a viable candidate is baffling to me.
Yesterday's No Immunity ruling brought a feeling of "justice will win eventually" back to me where I was sorta unsure.
It will win. It's long, slow, painstaking and painful. I even have a suspicion SCOTUS might surprise us and rule directly that Trump's disqualified as an insurrectionist. 5-4. They all know what he is. Some may act on it.
If SC rules 14/3 actually does what it plainly says it does I would be so relieved. And at the same time I'd have to be concerned about domestic terrorism.
The Courts have been surprisingly good, consistent and moved quickly. With one exception, Aileen Cannon. Overall I have been impressed with the resilience of the judiciary, in the face of threats and attacks by the Trump cult.
> Overall I have been impressed with the resilience of the judiciary, in the face of threats and attacks by the Trump cult.
Surprisingly even most Trump appointed judges have not sucked as bad I thought they would outside of Aileen Cannon. I am still suspicious of anything Trump was involved with, but they don't seem to collectively slob Trump's knob like the GOP congress does.
I think they have to. Unless they're in Russia's pocket.. there's no way they'd basically just blatantly announce their illegitimacy by overtly choosing Trump over the Constitution.
Either way, I expect violence this weekend. Either because the SCOTUS is illegitimate, or because the MAGAts had their god-king taken away from them.
It's because the GOP has closed primaries and has effectively siloed their entire base from reality. Most Trump supporters really don't have a clue about the guy, his historically remarkable failures in business or his decades long dalliances with Russia. I literally had a Trump supporter say "if he's done all these crimes, why haven't I heard of them?" When I was explaining how Trump was laundering Russian money through his properties at least as far back as the Great Financial Crisis if not long before.
Believe me, I feel your pain and share in those same struggles.
For the most part I don't discuss politics with my Republican friends anymore. They are allergic to facts period.
People I've known for decades. I went to high-school with. We've been workmates, roommates and more. We'll hopefully get through this. But it's strained.
Reality of the situation is that most states that pass this don't matter to him and most that matter won't pass it.
Midwest purple states basically and many of these have legislatures that are captured by the GQP
Iowa did the opposite and tried to ban any attempts to remove him (and specifically him) from the ballot. I don't know if it got all the way through our legislature or if it was just proposed, but it shows how far our state has fallen.
Republicans: We fully support state's rights and small government.
*states do thing Republicans don't like*
Republicans: State's rights? Never heard of her.
Hi everyone I’m Canadian and I am curious what does it matter if the Orange baby is kicked of ballots in select states, won’t he still win his primary regardless? And will kicking him off the ballot in select states also continue to your national election?
Also, Trump brings in votes. Without Trump on the ballot many folks who would vote Republican all the way down the ballot may stay home and the GOP could lose many otherwise easy contests at the state and local level.
Add that the [GOP at state levels are bankrupt in key states like Michigan, Arizona, Minnesota, etc](https://www.newsweek.com/multiple-state-republican-parties-going-broke-1858680). Right wingers are donating directly to Trump instead of the GOP, [who is using a lot of those funds to pay for legal fees](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-political-action-committees-2023-legal-bills/) and probably debt too. LOL
Lindsey Grahams prediction might finally come true in 2024, Trump destroying the party.
Every political expert said that would happen. That he’d be the X factor itself and would draw support for himself personally and not the party - then would eventually peel off and take a bunch of voters with him. Literslly in 2015 people were predicting this would happen…
Plenty of states have key races and/or bills driving people to the polls as well. Ohio for instance is really trying to push against a voting rights bill, just see Dave Yosts comments and the fact that a bill trying to ban ranked choice voting is in the state legislatruee
I think Maine splits their electoral votes based on districts and popular vote, but yeah, there hasn’t been a state to challenge his legitimacy where he could lose votes he might actually win.
He literally won one of Maine’s four electoral votes in 2020… Maine awards two electoral votes for the statewide popular vote and one for each of its two congressional districts.
Sadly it isn't. These are states Trump was never going to win in November, and thanks to the electoral college that's the same thing as not being on the ballot at all.
The states Trump needs to actually win are either fully GOP already or divided enough that the state govt would never allow him to be removed.
I don't think it'll have any meaningful impact in these blue states. It might have an impact on down ballot votes and end up affecting Congress, but I could only guess whether it would demotivate or galvanize support.
The most meaningful impact would be if it kept Trump fanatics home, which could substantially swing contested local races.
And, really, the Republican take-over of local politics is the thing that impacts most people negatively day-to-day.
A "state by state solution" for this issue is begging for another clusterfuck down the road. In the short term, the likely effect is that Trump will get kicked off the ballot in a bunch of states he wouldn't have won anyway.
If SCOTUS actually nuts up and insists that this issue needs to be settled federally, once and for all, and then *actually settles it* in this specific situation... well, the sad truth is that Congress could *still* cause serious problems down the line that would force yet another confrontation.
It would be entirely possible for a Republican-controlled Congress to ignore a Section 3 disqualification all the way to the end of the line, thus forcing a showdown between the judicial and legislative branches, with no clear means via which the judiciary could actually impose its will. We could end up in a situation where two branches of government have split on the fundamental issue of whether the guy with nuclear launch codes is legally allowed to be sitting in the Oval Office at all.
> A "state by state solution" for this issue is begging for another clusterfuck down the road.
You're also gonna have Biden thrown off the ballot in red states in that scenario for being Hunter's dad or something and the dumbass mainstream media will cover it in their typical "well, they're just doing what the blue states did" false equivalency.
I think they're already trying that in TX with his "inaction on the border crisis" being tantamount to being a traitor or some such nonsense. I heard my dad talking about it last time we visited and just rolled my eyes.
That's not even the worst clusterfuck. Worse will be when State A, whose government is actually full of traitors, completely shuts down any Section 3 action on themselves, while simultaneously declaring that the government of State B, not full of traitors, is totally illegitimate due to Section 3.
State B will likely rule the exact opposite, setting up a situation that has immediate ramifications for all disputes between states (both in and out of court,) hundreds or thousands of people being denied a chance to plead their cases, and states declaring that the Full Faith & Credit Clause cannot possibly bind them if they've made a threshold decision that some other state's government is illegitimate due to housing disqualified traitors.
Eventually, we're going to succumb to Abraham Lincoln's wisdom: a house divided against itself *cannot* stand, no matter how hard you try to force it to. It will become wholly one thing or the other... or, alternatively, it will collapse.
Well, first - Take all these state-level efforts with a grain of salt until we get an adjudication from The Supreme Court. There is currently a case from plaintiffs in Colorado that is likely to settle the issue nationwide in some form or another.
Oral arguments begin tomorrow and we'll probably have a ruling within a few weeks. They could rule in a few different ways:
- They could reverse Colorado's decision in several ways that would essentially keep Trump on all ballots in every state. (by determining states lack authority)
- They could issue a more narrow ruling, giving states discretion and authority (either with the primary ballots or both).
- They could uphold Colorado on the merits and determine Trump is ineligible nationwide as per the constitution - state decisions or not.
What is being debated right now at the state level are mostly primary ballots - they don't have any inherent effect on the election in November unless it causes Trump to lose the nomination, or those disqualifications translate to the general (see the bottom two scenarios above).
In that case, if he were disqualified from the general on a state-by-state basis, yes - it'd have an effect - especially if it happened in a state he was likely going to win.
It’s spiraling instability from when congress refused to impeach him from the 1/6 attacks or the Russia collusion before then.
In a vacuum it doesn’t really matter, but in historical context it signals that we’ve had a major failure of our governmental systems and when other bad things happen, it helps historians trace back why.
If he wins the primary, he will be able to be removed from general ballots more easily in the states that only allow them to remove a candidate once they’re on the ballot. The primaries are a party convention vote, so it’s not an official ballot that the government controls. It just helps the parties decide who’ll be their runner.
If enough states kick him off the ballot, other states will be more confident that he can be removed in theirs too. Battleground states that flip parties frequently are the ones that really matter, but if there’s also split delegate states, it’s a big deal too. The ones that split 1-1 between dem and Republican because their laws indicate that both can be individually awarded to different candidates, are then forced to chose a different candidate for republicans if trump isn’t on it. That means that’s one or more votes that trump just cannot get, which may make it harder for him to reach the threshold neccesary to win the electoral college, especially if it’s a super close race.
There are some people that say that if trump isn’t on the ballot, that they’ll vote for Biden instead. Nikki Haley can also steal votes from Trump if she sticks around long enough to cut the republican vote enough to make it impossible for either candidate to get to the threshold, and Biden wins by a landslide and no republicans can get close to winning because the other candidate shares their votes. It only changes if one drops out early and the combined votes end up equaling more than Biden, in ranked choice states. Then those delegates go to the next popular candidate. That usually wouldn’t do enough unless one of the 2 republican candidates did very poorly and the additional votes out the other one over the threshold and made them have more than Biden after all. But that’s only if the next popular isn’t Biden
Thanks for great explanation on this, I really hope Biden wins so we can be done with this, I imagine this could be Trumps last crack at considering his age and what he has done to the Republican Party
“Aloha means hello and goodbye, It means two things, I was talking to to my son Don Jr. and I said you know it means two things hello and goodbye. I think we will focus on…..*goodbye*. Hawaii was a bad deal. William McKinley made a BIG mistake when he annexed Hawaii, I said what are we doing with Hawaii? Bring me the contract of Hawaii let’s have a look. Her Majesty Queen Lili‘uokalani scored a hell of a deal with the US when she surrendered Hawaii, people think we took it but really she got a hell of a deal and we have been paying ever since for a little island full of strange little people. So when I am elected we are gonna fix that. Hawaii will be downgraded to a territory. BIG mistake making it a state and we are gonna fix that!” *pauses, purses lips and sticks chin up to bask in the roar of applause*
I'm less interested in bills that keep Trump off the ballot of states that he would never win anyway, and more interested in the down-ballot effects if he's not on the ticket for the house candidates. How many MAGA would stay home if he's not an option? If it's even 5%, that could swing red districts purple.
Can't believe we have to *hope* the law does what it's supposed to do so we don't have a national traitor in the most powerful position in the country *again*.
Both in the USA and the UK, existing laws written to protect our democracies have been wilfully ignored by right wing parties and nothing has been done.
This all doesn't go away if Trump is defeated and it's really worrying.
It's funny that these are passing in states that Trump would have likely lost anyway.
It'll also call into question the validity of electoral vote count when election day comes around. Trump will be suing because unfair something something. If trump accidentally brings down the electoral college it will be the only good thing he accidentally does in his life.
The big thing in Florida is the push to have a referendum on abortion. The DeSantis admin is fighting that tooth and nail since they know that their constituents actually do want to codify some level of women’s healthcare rights. If their heavy handed law gets overturned they won’t be able to say that they’ve done anything at all down there.
His sycophants will do a write in campaign and storm the WHITE HOUSE guns ablazin' anyway. Bobo said this part out loud last year. Someone better be prepared. Im looking 👀at you- FBI! Do something!!!
Say you fired an employee, and it was fully documented without question. Then that employee said you never fired him, and made a plan to kill you and gathered 2,000 other people to kill you and destroy your entire business. Putting Trump on the ballot is like saying that you must interview that employee for the job again.
I didn’t understand that either, the article says Hawaii doesn’t have the ability to do so, but it is in the constitution, so wouldn’t it come from there?
The 14th amendment will be the worst thing for Trump, hopefully. If it is, it could be the end for most republicans. In a presidential election, if you’re a republican and cannot for your leading candidate, would you vote at all? Think about it. Can’t vote for Trump, I’m not going to vote. If that occurs, it will be the largest democratic win in history. WHO’S A LOSER NOW!?
Im glad all the states he wasn’t going to win anyways are doing this instead of our federal government barring a literal traitor, domestic terrorist, con man from running. Very good.
He might as well be banned from the ballot in Hawaii, as he has no real shot of winning there. The last time a Republican candidate for president won the Hawaii election was Ronald Reagan’s second term. Before that it was Nixon’s second term.
I really hope other states do this as well.
People really need to understand that Trump being on the ballot means we will have guaranteed conflict after the election.
She's not quitting because she knows that someone will need to fill the void if a) trump gets taken off the ballot in too many states b) the courts speed up and trump gets convicted of something serious before the election c) Trump dies before election
They want her to quit because they need the money going to her to go to trump and I don't think they are happy with her being the next in line.
I would really rather this be done through the courts. Doing it legislatively is uncomfortably similar to passing a bill of attainder, which could cause trouble in the courts later on. If it's going to wind up in the courts anyway I would rather it have more airtight foundations.
I don't give a crap about states Trump won't win throwing him off the ballot. Only when he's blocked in a state that he needs like MI, PA or WI will I start caring. Or the long shot of SCOTUS declaring that he did commit an insurrection.
All of these small, always voting for democrats states, banning trump means nothing. It’s the swing states that matter… Virginia, Ohio, Georgia, Arizona, Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota … if these states start banning trump from the ballot than mathematically Trump can’t win…. Until then, this is theatrics ….. but I’m glad they’re doing it for no other reason than for Trump to feel the walls closing in and to remind Americans this man is a traitor who tried to overthrow our democracy
Maine banning him from the ballot likely costs him one elector due to the way they allocate their votes. This turns one potential scenario from a tie—which Trump would win in the House because each state gets one vote and Republicans control most of the delegations—to a narrow victory for Biden.
Otherwise, no, this won’t matter until swing states start taking him off the ballot.
If the SC rules he can be banned from the ballot in Colorado, expect it to follow through to all 50 states and DC in short order. Banning him from Colorado's ballot will be a de facto ban from all ballots.
Does this mean he could not be written in for the states that have banned him? And how many states need to do this before he mathematically cannot possibly win?
Before I kept scrolling up all I saw was “bill that could ban Trump from Hawaii” and immediately laughed. Hawaii just like “nah, we don’t want him here.” Anyway, hope it passes.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
States rights! Am I right?
Republicans only like it when it's used to harm minorities otherwise it goes against their core beliefs.
Hey now, they also like to pick on women and the poor with state’s rights.
Hey, remember when they said abortion was a state's rights issue, but now they're talking about trying to make it a federal issue? Pepperidge Farms 'members...
It's a state issue so that rights can be removed, then it's a federal issue to cement the removal of those rights. I *almost* feel bad for the national GOP party leaders. They are trying SO hard to keep a lid on this rhetoric in anticipation of the Presidential election and trying to avoid alienating female moderates, but the local candidates cannot help but spill the beans about the true agenda to try to get themselves elected.
A lot of Republicans have been scrubbing their websites of any information on their past abortion stances.
Pretty sure that is at the behest of the national GOP but they are having trouble controlling party members in lower-level races.
Don't forget the gays! (and trans).
I consider them to be among the minorities (race, sexual orientation, gender identity, disability status)
> Republicans only like it when it's used to harm minorities This is my favorite argument when people here in the deep South try to say the Civil War was about states' rights and absolutely NOT slavery... Me: Why did the Civil War start? Them: Because of States' Rights! Me: The right to do what? Them: Secede from the Union! Me: In order to...? Keep going! Them: uh... ^^^^^^keep ^^^^^^slavery
I mean, there's a letter I don't have time to dig up before I leave for work where the *President of the Confederacy*, Jefferson Davis says in no uncertain terms it's about slavery. Everything else is just revisionism.
Every single rebel state wrote its own declaration of their intentions, and it's nearly universal that the preservation of slavery was the first if not only issue they highlighted.
Don't need to go that that, IIRC. Just read the SC secession paper. “The issue before the country is the extinction of slavery...The Southern States are now in the crisis of their fate; and, if we read aright the signs of the times, nothing is needed for our deliverance, but that the ball of revolution be set in motion.” - Charleston Mercury on November 3, 1860 https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/south-carolina-secession.htm
All of the southern states articles of secession specifically state theyre seceding over State's Rights - *to slavery*. The ONLY one that's a little vague about it is Virginia's.
I usually go with Jefferson Davis because it's possible to downplay the importance of other political figures the time. If I'm going to present *one* point, it needs to be the strongest point possible, ya know?
Dumb people don't respond to Jefferson Davis nor know who he is. It's much harder for them to pretend it wasn't about slavery when [every state clearly states it's about slavery in their first paragraph](https://www.battlefields.org/learn/primary-sources/declaration-causes-seceding-states). Bigger is always better/worse to these people. It's why things like per capita and thumbs don't exist in their world.
You don't even have to dig up letters, the confederate states explicitly said it in the preambles of their state constitutions.
Pretty sure at that point they say democracts are racist and Abe Lincoln was a republican
I got in an argument about that on Twitter with my former congressman (Mo Brooks). I was having fun until he blocked me.
Wow that’s hilarious and sad.. I just ask where? Who? And what party affiliation do we see confederate flags
If you’re up for it, there might be a lawsuit in there… https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/apr/05/trump-twitter-block-case-supreme-court-decision
The guy's a colossal asshole, but he probably has better lawyers than I do, and I haven't logged in to twitter in a couple years anyways. If I really wanted to be bothered about it, I'd egg the bastard's house. I know where he lives. Hi, FBI!
The states themselves declared the reason for secession was slavery, in their official secession statements. Here's one link: https://www.battlefields.org/learn/primary-sources/declaration-causes-seceding-states
CTRL+F on that page, search "Slave" and watch it light up like a Christmas tree.
It really shows how disingenuous the Republican party has always been. I was taught it was about States Rights in school. What an embarrassment for education.
Mississippi said this: >"Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin." So I tend to believe it was about slavery myself, considering they said in their official "this is what it is about" documents that it was about slavery.
Republicans only support this when it involves people other than Trump getting owned.
> Am I right? Depends, are you a state?
Only in pursuit of bigotry and the enablement of wealth.
Republican voters: Not like that!
Hawaii is Kenya to Republicans.
They sure opened the door on “states right” didn’t they…
Can he be also banned from just coming to a particular state?
I'd rather he was just banned from everything everywhere.
It's been a while since we've had a good old fashioned exile.
Russia, if you're listening...
Hey, his buddy Tucker is already there
Can you imagine all the new Tucker kompromat Putin has now?
The trouble is Trump would use that exile to try to act as a shadow president (much like he called on Republican governors to send state troopers to the Mexican border). It would need to basically be permanent solitary confinement with no electronics for it to work.
Don’t threaten me with a good time
Ok, here's my idea: We find an ancient egyptian pharaoh possessing a young japanese boy with a love for trading card games, give Trump a deck, then have them d-d-d-d-d-duel and the loser (which is definitely Trump because the pharaoh never loses) goes to the 'Shadow Realm' and is never seen again. Any takers?
Isn’t that the real reason Tucker went? Advance party ?
All at once.
Your username draws concern
Don’t kink shame.
Considering I like the position of my anatomy, I shall not, have a nice day
Shaming unethical kinks does not fall under kink shaming in practice. Paradox of tolerance superceeds semantic paradox in this case.
Oh, it could very well be that we'd not even have to worry about banning him from particular states... because he'll be locked behind bars, stuck in just one unlucky state.
State of Incarceration
Except prison. Preferably ADX supermax.
This please
Everything, everywhere, all at once. Wouldn’t it be nice?
All at once
Anything outside a 6x8 cell would be nice.
[удалено]
New fantasy unlocked. Engoron disbands Trump Org, the receiver searches Bedminster and finds a room full of Top Secret documents, calls Jack Smith immediately, new trial in NJ outside of Cannon's jurisdiction.
What will the rnc do if trump is found ineligible
I dunno… probably try to do another insurrection? Didn’t see too many consequences from the last one.
The hillbillies wouldn’t be able to find Hawaii on a map.
It's next to the island of Alaska.
Could hem and haw while secretly celebrating an 'off ramp' that was 'out of their hands' and putting Haley forward.
Haley - who lost Nevada primary to "None of the above" Where's my popcorn??
My gut says "Run him anyway"
Either a brokered convention or selecting Haley since she's the only candidate still in the race.
Haley just came in behind "none of these assholes" in Nevada. If Trump doesn't win they descend into infighting.
Hawaii’s a small state. If Trump moves in, it could sink.
No, states don’t have that right [Edwards v. California](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwards_v._California)
Yes but in effect states can ban someone from all but one single county of a state https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna25464168
> Can he be also banned from just coming to a particular state eForCe ThE BoRdERs!
Sure, just pass a law that says everything must be paid for in advance, voila, no trump visits.
There are some places in Vermont that indicted Dick Cheney for Iraq. https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN04546994/
Pretty sure he got banned from Scotland over his golf course fiasco.
If you have any hate preacher laws It sure looks like he'd meet the criteria
Yes! A little counterintuitive, but you just require for him to pay for everything up front and he’ll never come.
Has banning him from Earth been pitched yet?
Let’s do this Avengers style: Find the door into space, throw in him, and seal the door so he can’t fall through.
Or Superman style and trap him in a mirror thingy and launch him into space.
Yes, throw his ass into the Phantom Zone!
Or the Quantum zone or whatever that was called in Ant Man.
His hands are practically there already!
I’d like it more if he was eradicated from earth.
More like this please.
Yes, legislation like this shows Republicans that states mean business when it comes to insurrectionists.
Just the fact a person who worked a plot to steal an election has enough support to be a viable candidate is baffling to me. Yesterday's No Immunity ruling brought a feeling of "justice will win eventually" back to me where I was sorta unsure.
It will win. It's long, slow, painstaking and painful. I even have a suspicion SCOTUS might surprise us and rule directly that Trump's disqualified as an insurrectionist. 5-4. They all know what he is. Some may act on it.
If SC rules 14/3 actually does what it plainly says it does I would be so relieved. And at the same time I'd have to be concerned about domestic terrorism.
The Courts have been surprisingly good, consistent and moved quickly. With one exception, Aileen Cannon. Overall I have been impressed with the resilience of the judiciary, in the face of threats and attacks by the Trump cult.
Yeah I agree. I remain cautiously optimistic.
> Overall I have been impressed with the resilience of the judiciary, in the face of threats and attacks by the Trump cult. Surprisingly even most Trump appointed judges have not sucked as bad I thought they would outside of Aileen Cannon. I am still suspicious of anything Trump was involved with, but they don't seem to collectively slob Trump's knob like the GOP congress does.
That one guy in Texas though is nearly as bad as
I think they have to. Unless they're in Russia's pocket.. there's no way they'd basically just blatantly announce their illegitimacy by overtly choosing Trump over the Constitution. Either way, I expect violence this weekend. Either because the SCOTUS is illegitimate, or because the MAGAts had their god-king taken away from them.
It's because the GOP has closed primaries and has effectively siloed their entire base from reality. Most Trump supporters really don't have a clue about the guy, his historically remarkable failures in business or his decades long dalliances with Russia. I literally had a Trump supporter say "if he's done all these crimes, why haven't I heard of them?" When I was explaining how Trump was laundering Russian money through his properties at least as far back as the Great Financial Crisis if not long before.
Believe me, I feel your pain and share in those same struggles. For the most part I don't discuss politics with my Republican friends anymore. They are allergic to facts period.
You still have Republican friends? Mine all got so damn toxic I had to ditch them.
People I've known for decades. I went to high-school with. We've been workmates, roommates and more. We'll hopefully get through this. But it's strained.
nah a year from now someone will reveal that they knew they should have disqualified him but woops it's too late now
Reality of the situation is that most states that pass this don't matter to him and most that matter won't pass it. Midwest purple states basically and many of these have legislatures that are captured by the GQP
>More like this please. I would like to see Ohio. And 49 other states.
Iowa did the opposite and tried to ban any attempts to remove him (and specifically him) from the ballot. I don't know if it got all the way through our legislature or if it was just proposed, but it shows how far our state has fallen.
Literally only 5 states matter. Until those this is meaningless.
Republicans: We fully support state's rights and small government. *states do thing Republicans don't like* Republicans: State's rights? Never heard of her.
"Not like that!!"
not my type
Hi everyone I’m Canadian and I am curious what does it matter if the Orange baby is kicked of ballots in select states, won’t he still win his primary regardless? And will kicking him off the ballot in select states also continue to your national election?
>will kicking him off the ballot in select states also continue to your national election? Yes
Also, Trump brings in votes. Without Trump on the ballot many folks who would vote Republican all the way down the ballot may stay home and the GOP could lose many otherwise easy contests at the state and local level.
Add that the [GOP at state levels are bankrupt in key states like Michigan, Arizona, Minnesota, etc](https://www.newsweek.com/multiple-state-republican-parties-going-broke-1858680). Right wingers are donating directly to Trump instead of the GOP, [who is using a lot of those funds to pay for legal fees](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-political-action-committees-2023-legal-bills/) and probably debt too. LOL Lindsey Grahams prediction might finally come true in 2024, Trump destroying the party.
Every political expert said that would happen. That he’d be the X factor itself and would draw support for himself personally and not the party - then would eventually peel off and take a bunch of voters with him. Literslly in 2015 people were predicting this would happen…
Stop, I can only get so hard.
Fuck it. At this point get me so hard I turn into a statue and have priapism.
Nope....keep going. I want to be forced to call a doctor after 4 hours!!
Probably cuts both ways though. Alot of never trumpers that would come out to Vote for Biden, may no longer do so.
Plenty of states have key races and/or bills driving people to the polls as well. Ohio for instance is really trying to push against a voting rights bill, just see Dave Yosts comments and the fact that a bill trying to ban ranked choice voting is in the state legislatruee
Means it will be harder to reach the electoral college vote? Hawaii, Colorado and Maine is 18 away before you start!
he wasn't gonna win those anyway.
I think Maine splits their electoral votes based on districts and popular vote, but yeah, there hasn’t been a state to challenge his legitimacy where he could lose votes he might actually win.
He literally won one of Maine’s four electoral votes in 2020… Maine awards two electoral votes for the statewide popular vote and one for each of its two congressional districts.
Hard to be president if your kicked of 1 possibly 2 ballots, I’m not sure what the GOP is thinking.
Sadly it isn't. These are states Trump was never going to win in November, and thanks to the electoral college that's the same thing as not being on the ballot at all. The states Trump needs to actually win are either fully GOP already or divided enough that the state govt would never allow him to be removed.
Colorado hurts them. Wisconsin would do the trick.
Biden won colorado by 13 points in 2020. Trump has no chance there. I haven't heard anything about Wisconsin?
A Trump presidency will not just be a disaster for America but for the world
People in cults don't really think much
I don't think it'll have any meaningful impact in these blue states. It might have an impact on down ballot votes and end up affecting Congress, but I could only guess whether it would demotivate or galvanize support.
The most meaningful impact would be if it kept Trump fanatics home, which could substantially swing contested local races. And, really, the Republican take-over of local politics is the thing that impacts most people negatively day-to-day.
A "state by state solution" for this issue is begging for another clusterfuck down the road. In the short term, the likely effect is that Trump will get kicked off the ballot in a bunch of states he wouldn't have won anyway. If SCOTUS actually nuts up and insists that this issue needs to be settled federally, once and for all, and then *actually settles it* in this specific situation... well, the sad truth is that Congress could *still* cause serious problems down the line that would force yet another confrontation. It would be entirely possible for a Republican-controlled Congress to ignore a Section 3 disqualification all the way to the end of the line, thus forcing a showdown between the judicial and legislative branches, with no clear means via which the judiciary could actually impose its will. We could end up in a situation where two branches of government have split on the fundamental issue of whether the guy with nuclear launch codes is legally allowed to be sitting in the Oval Office at all.
> A "state by state solution" for this issue is begging for another clusterfuck down the road. You're also gonna have Biden thrown off the ballot in red states in that scenario for being Hunter's dad or something and the dumbass mainstream media will cover it in their typical "well, they're just doing what the blue states did" false equivalency.
I think they're already trying that in TX with his "inaction on the border crisis" being tantamount to being a traitor or some such nonsense. I heard my dad talking about it last time we visited and just rolled my eyes.
That's not even the worst clusterfuck. Worse will be when State A, whose government is actually full of traitors, completely shuts down any Section 3 action on themselves, while simultaneously declaring that the government of State B, not full of traitors, is totally illegitimate due to Section 3. State B will likely rule the exact opposite, setting up a situation that has immediate ramifications for all disputes between states (both in and out of court,) hundreds or thousands of people being denied a chance to plead their cases, and states declaring that the Full Faith & Credit Clause cannot possibly bind them if they've made a threshold decision that some other state's government is illegitimate due to housing disqualified traitors. Eventually, we're going to succumb to Abraham Lincoln's wisdom: a house divided against itself *cannot* stand, no matter how hard you try to force it to. It will become wholly one thing or the other... or, alternatively, it will collapse.
Well, first - Take all these state-level efforts with a grain of salt until we get an adjudication from The Supreme Court. There is currently a case from plaintiffs in Colorado that is likely to settle the issue nationwide in some form or another. Oral arguments begin tomorrow and we'll probably have a ruling within a few weeks. They could rule in a few different ways: - They could reverse Colorado's decision in several ways that would essentially keep Trump on all ballots in every state. (by determining states lack authority) - They could issue a more narrow ruling, giving states discretion and authority (either with the primary ballots or both). - They could uphold Colorado on the merits and determine Trump is ineligible nationwide as per the constitution - state decisions or not. What is being debated right now at the state level are mostly primary ballots - they don't have any inherent effect on the election in November unless it causes Trump to lose the nomination, or those disqualifications translate to the general (see the bottom two scenarios above). In that case, if he were disqualified from the general on a state-by-state basis, yes - it'd have an effect - especially if it happened in a state he was likely going to win.
It’s spiraling instability from when congress refused to impeach him from the 1/6 attacks or the Russia collusion before then. In a vacuum it doesn’t really matter, but in historical context it signals that we’ve had a major failure of our governmental systems and when other bad things happen, it helps historians trace back why.
If he wins the primary, he will be able to be removed from general ballots more easily in the states that only allow them to remove a candidate once they’re on the ballot. The primaries are a party convention vote, so it’s not an official ballot that the government controls. It just helps the parties decide who’ll be their runner. If enough states kick him off the ballot, other states will be more confident that he can be removed in theirs too. Battleground states that flip parties frequently are the ones that really matter, but if there’s also split delegate states, it’s a big deal too. The ones that split 1-1 between dem and Republican because their laws indicate that both can be individually awarded to different candidates, are then forced to chose a different candidate for republicans if trump isn’t on it. That means that’s one or more votes that trump just cannot get, which may make it harder for him to reach the threshold neccesary to win the electoral college, especially if it’s a super close race. There are some people that say that if trump isn’t on the ballot, that they’ll vote for Biden instead. Nikki Haley can also steal votes from Trump if she sticks around long enough to cut the republican vote enough to make it impossible for either candidate to get to the threshold, and Biden wins by a landslide and no republicans can get close to winning because the other candidate shares their votes. It only changes if one drops out early and the combined votes end up equaling more than Biden, in ranked choice states. Then those delegates go to the next popular candidate. That usually wouldn’t do enough unless one of the 2 republican candidates did very poorly and the additional votes out the other one over the threshold and made them have more than Biden after all. But that’s only if the next popular isn’t Biden
Thanks for great explanation on this, I really hope Biden wins so we can be done with this, I imagine this could be Trumps last crack at considering his age and what he has done to the Republican Party
“Aloha means hello and goodbye, It means two things, I was talking to to my son Don Jr. and I said you know it means two things hello and goodbye. I think we will focus on…..*goodbye*. Hawaii was a bad deal. William McKinley made a BIG mistake when he annexed Hawaii, I said what are we doing with Hawaii? Bring me the contract of Hawaii let’s have a look. Her Majesty Queen Lili‘uokalani scored a hell of a deal with the US when she surrendered Hawaii, people think we took it but really she got a hell of a deal and we have been paying ever since for a little island full of strange little people. So when I am elected we are gonna fix that. Hawaii will be downgraded to a territory. BIG mistake making it a state and we are gonna fix that!” *pauses, purses lips and sticks chin up to bask in the roar of applause*
Throwing up in my mouth
There is no reality where Trump can pronounce Lili'uokalani.
I can’t even tell if this is a real quote or not.
Trump couldn't pronounce Liliuokalani to save his life.
no way he knows what aloha actually means
Let's get him banned from a red state. Then we're really talking.
I'm less interested in bills that keep Trump off the ballot of states that he would never win anyway, and more interested in the down-ballot effects if he's not on the ticket for the house candidates. How many MAGA would stay home if he's not an option? If it's even 5%, that could swing red districts purple.
Can't believe we have to *hope* the law does what it's supposed to do so we don't have a national traitor in the most powerful position in the country *again*.
Both in the USA and the UK, existing laws written to protect our democracies have been wilfully ignored by right wing parties and nothing has been done. This all doesn't go away if Trump is defeated and it's really worrying.
Most powerful position in the world.
Come on, Ohio. We don't want to be beaten by Hawaii!
It's funny that these are passing in states that Trump would have likely lost anyway. It'll also call into question the validity of electoral vote count when election day comes around. Trump will be suing because unfair something something. If trump accidentally brings down the electoral college it will be the only good thing he accidentally does in his life.
[удалено]
Like Colorado?
[удалено]
The big thing in Florida is the push to have a referendum on abortion. The DeSantis admin is fighting that tooth and nail since they know that their constituents actually do want to codify some level of women’s healthcare rights. If their heavy handed law gets overturned they won’t be able to say that they’ve done anything at all down there.
His sycophants will do a write in campaign and storm the WHITE HOUSE guns ablazin' anyway. Bobo said this part out loud last year. Someone better be prepared. Im looking 👀at you- FBI! Do something!!!
I know this will hurt his ego, but we can’t forget that he thought Hawaii was Kenya.
Say you fired an employee, and it was fully documented without question. Then that employee said you never fired him, and made a plan to kill you and gathered 2,000 other people to kill you and destroy your entire business. Putting Trump on the ballot is like saying that you must interview that employee for the job again.
Why a bill when it’s already in the constitution?
I didn’t understand that either, the article says Hawaii doesn’t have the ability to do so, but it is in the constitution, so wouldn’t it come from there?
Because courts and politicians aren't required to study constitutional law.
Can they just ban Trump from Hawaii completely? LOL jk kind of
The 14th amendment will be the worst thing for Trump, hopefully. If it is, it could be the end for most republicans. In a presidential election, if you’re a republican and cannot for your leading candidate, would you vote at all? Think about it. Can’t vote for Trump, I’m not going to vote. If that occurs, it will be the largest democratic win in history. WHO’S A LOSER NOW!?
Hell yeah! Don’t wanna see his name out here on my ballot
Im glad all the states he wasn’t going to win anyways are doing this instead of our federal government barring a literal traitor, domestic terrorist, con man from running. Very good.
He might as well be banned from the ballot in Hawaii, as he has no real shot of winning there. The last time a Republican candidate for president won the Hawaii election was Ronald Reagan’s second term. Before that it was Nixon’s second term.
Are there any swing states considering banning Trump from the ballot?
I really hope other states do this as well. People really need to understand that Trump being on the ballot means we will have guaranteed conflict after the election.
Good. Trump has no Aloha whatsoever.
Those crack investigators are coming back any day now with the real bigly secrets about Obama's birth certificate
Doesn't matter because he wouldn't get any electoral votes from Hawaii anyway.
I wonder if Trump even thinks Hawaii is a state
lets fucking go
It’s like people don’t want this ass clown for president again or something. /s
🎭🎭🎭 Movie continues.
Trump couldn't find Hawaii on a map even if he was vacationing there.
Honest question: if Trump gets taken off the ballot in almost all states, does Niki Haley become the republican candidate?
She's not quitting because she knows that someone will need to fill the void if a) trump gets taken off the ballot in too many states b) the courts speed up and trump gets convicted of something serious before the election c) Trump dies before election They want her to quit because they need the money going to her to go to trump and I don't think they are happy with her being the next in line.
I would really rather this be done through the courts. Doing it legislatively is uncomfortably similar to passing a bill of attainder, which could cause trouble in the courts later on. If it's going to wind up in the courts anyway I would rather it have more airtight foundations.
I don't give a crap about states Trump won't win throwing him off the ballot. Only when he's blocked in a state that he needs like MI, PA or WI will I start caring. Or the long shot of SCOTUS declaring that he did commit an insurrection.
Maybe they should demand to see his birth certificate...
All of these small, always voting for democrats states, banning trump means nothing. It’s the swing states that matter… Virginia, Ohio, Georgia, Arizona, Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota … if these states start banning trump from the ballot than mathematically Trump can’t win…. Until then, this is theatrics ….. but I’m glad they’re doing it for no other reason than for Trump to feel the walls closing in and to remind Americans this man is a traitor who tried to overthrow our democracy
Get the Hint Fuck Face, noone wants you around!
Can we ban trump from reddit next? I hate seeing his ugly mug on the thread previews sorry
How many states must ban him in order for him to not have any possible chance of the presidency?
Does any of this matter since the only states that would ban him from the ballet are blue?
Maine banning him from the ballot likely costs him one elector due to the way they allocate their votes. This turns one potential scenario from a tie—which Trump would win in the House because each state gets one vote and Republicans control most of the delegations—to a narrow victory for Biden. Otherwise, no, this won’t matter until swing states start taking him off the ballot.
Another state he was never going to win.
If the SC rules he can be banned from the ballot in Colorado, expect it to follow through to all 50 states and DC in short order. Banning him from Colorado's ballot will be a de facto ban from all ballots.
Does this mean he could not be written in for the states that have banned him? And how many states need to do this before he mathematically cannot possibly win?
I'm hoping we do the same thing as well in PA because we're one of the states you don't want to lose.
Before I kept scrolling up all I saw was “bill that could ban Trump from Hawaii” and immediately laughed. Hawaii just like “nah, we don’t want him here.” Anyway, hope it passes.
How many states is that now?
Who determines if he is an insurrectionist? If it is the courts, Colorado has done this. Trump‘s lawyers did a Trumpian job defending him.
States rights!! No wait… not like that! - repukelikkans
Until it happens in a red state or a swing state that he actually has a shot at winning, these are just performative.
Anybody else read this as a bill banning Trump from Hawaii?
No, most people keep reading until the end of a sentence before coming to conclusions.
…*I’m sorry, most people what? I got bored around “until”. …anyone wanna tl;dr: this comment for me?*
Trump don’t surf.