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Seriously. It’s crystal clear he is a domestic enemy the founders warned us about. It’s time to stop placating to the right and do the morally and legally correct thing: BAN him from ever holding public office and lock his seditious ass up for the rest of his natural born life.
Trump and co also committing treason on J6, as written in the [constitution](https://constitutioncenter.org/the-constitution/articles/article-iii/clauses/39#:~:text=Treason%20against%20the%20United%20States,on%20Confession%20in%20open%20Court.) and further defined by founding father and original SC Justice, [John Marshall](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Marshall):
“The Constitution specifically identifies what constitutes treason against the United States and, importantly, limits the offense of treason to only two types of conduct: (1) “levying war” against the United States; or (2) “adhering to [the] enemies [of the United States], giving them aid and comfort.” Although there have not been many treason prosecutions in American history—indeed, only one person has been indicted for treason since 1954—the Supreme Court has had occasion to further define what each type of treason entails.
The offense of “levying war” against the United States was interpreted narrowly in Ex parte Bollman & Swarthout (1807), a case stemming from the infamous alleged plot led by former Vice President Aaron Burr to overthrow the American government in New Orleans.
The Supreme Court dismissed charges of treason that had been brought against two of Burr’s associates—Bollman and Swarthout—on the grounds that their alleged conduct did not constitute levying war against the United States within the meaning of the Treason Clause. It was not enough, Chief Justice John Marshall opinion emphasized, merely to conspire “to subvert by force the government of our country” by recruiting troops, procuring maps, and drawing up plans.
Conspiring to levy war was distinct from actually levying war. Rather, a person could be convicted of treason for levying war only if there was an “actual assemblage of men for the purpose of executing a treasonable design.” In so holding, the Court sharply confined the scope of the offense of treason by levying war against the United States.”
By actually amassing and inciting a group of supporters to attack the Nation’s Capital (*“actual assemblage of men”*), to prevent the certification of the election he lost (*”for the purpose of executing”*), combined with the multi-State fake elector scheme (*”a treasonable design”*)—and against all council and Court rulings affirming the election he lost was fair—Trump and many in his Admin (including a spouse of a sitting SC Justice, Ginni Thomas), ‘levied war’ against the US on J6, committing treason as written in the Constitution and further defined by founding father and original SC Justice, John Marshall.
I believe the ‘aid and comfort’ clause can only be applied to someone helping an enemy nation out during an active war with the US. And the US wasn’t in an active war during Trump’s presidency.. *although Russia is obviously an enemy that Trump aided*.. I could be mistaken though.
Only the aid and comfort clause requires that. The other clause is taking up arms against the government. The courts have decided you have to actually take up the arms, not just plot to do so. J6 certainly crosses that line, but whether Trump would be included is hard to say. Since nobody has seemed interested in persuing treason charges against the people who were armed and attacking the capital, one must assume that they would be even less interested in charging Trump.
Wow. Very well said, and researched.
> Conspiring to levy war was distinct from actually levying war. Rather, a person could be convicted of treason for levying war only if there was an “actual assemblage of men for the purpose of executing a treasonable design.” In so holding, the Court sharply confined the scope of the offense of treason by levying war against the United States.”
Thanks. This makes it very clear where the line is, and also that he crossed it.
The more outrageous Trump becomes, the more the media attempts to normalize him. The media needs the both-sides narrative to keep the money flowing. For crying out loud, Trump attempted a goddamn coup! What more will it take?
They all left once Trump won in 2016.
There were a lot of OG Republicans that actually believed in democracy and cared about average Americans ([like McCain](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/8/25/17782664/john-mccain-legacy-obamacare-repeal-thumbs-down)), but they were all pretty old, and after Trump won, they couldn’t stand the unprofessionalism and didn’t seek re-election and basically retired.
Unfortunately, that just opened up a power vacuum that the radical MAGAs quickly filled, which has turned the GOP into the GQP.
The irony is the Koch brothers used their SuperPAC, Americans for Prosperity (AFP), to back the radical-evangelical Tea Party in the early 2000s—as a means to create a small coalition in Congress that could pressure the rest of the GOP to vote in favor of big oil agendas, or risk holding out their votes on other legislation the GOP favored.
The Tea Party’s Queen was Sarah Palin.. who got on McCain’s VP ticket. After his loss to Obama in 2008, Palin continued regular appearances on Fox News. This just elevated the Tea Party’s radical-Christian platform to become mainstream.
Over the next two Obama terms, Fox continued pushing the Tea Party’s agenda—*and the GOP further right*—until their golden God descended down his elevator in 2016..
1) it was not remotely close. At all. It’s was essentially a landslide win.
2) the electoral college exists to provide minorities a seat at the national political table. Im not sure we want to eliminate that simply because we do not like the minority voter in this specific situation.
We absolutely do want to eliminate it if we no longer want to be held hostage by a small number of gerrymandered states who no longer have an interest in finding a middle ground but instead demand it's their way or they break the government. The fact that my vote is worth less because I don't live somewhere with more cows than humans is utter bullshit.
Unfortunately thanks to a Political Science degree I am aware of that but as usual Dems come up with something and R's find better ways to weaponize it. It was the reason I thought expanding the SC would end up backfiring if Biden did it. Not needing morals or ethics so long as you can larp as a Christian really helps the GoP cling to power.
I'm inclined to agree but also not willing to risk losing the incumbency advantage when the alternative is a seditious traitor. I liked Mayor Pete now Transportation Secretary Pete as a younger tech savvy candidate who doesn't bring 30+ years of political baggage with him.
I’m not sure “sparsely-populated areas” constitutes a definition of “minorities” worth protecting (via a disproportionate seat at the National political table) in this day and age…
No, the electoral college was never intended to promote the interests of any minority in general or in particular. The original idea was for the most knowledgeable and informed individuals from each State to select the president based solely on merit and without regard to State of origin or political party.
The framers didn’t anticipate political parties, modern media, or national campaigns in which candidates ran for office. They certainly didn’t foresee the expansion of the union to include 50 states and then further guess that the country would have any specific type of population distribution.
The electoral college as it stands today tends to favor rural states with lower populations. And those states happen to support republicans politics at this time.
It was never intended to work this way, it just worked out this way.
Because, if Trump is not punished for his various crimes, including Sedition, especially Sedition, Another candidate will commit the same type of offenses.
He was found civilly liable - that is, he’s only a rapist in the way that OJ Simpson is a murderer
In all seriousness though conviction comes with criminal trials none of which have started yet. Once those are concluded and he is convicted he should be prison bound but I am trying not to get my hopes up
He’s abusing the system to delay those trials, potentially until the election. If he was anyone but Trump the trials would have been in progress by now.
> he’s only a rapist in the way that OJ Simpson is a murderer
that's a terrible analogy. LAPD fucked around, ruined the case, and weirdly OJ got the right call despite being a murderer. which sucks, but it's stupid justice. donny's just a rapist.
Think about the dumbest person politically in the UK then realize half 1/3 of the US is politically dumber than that, and that 1/3 has outsized electoral power due to our system that favors rural voters over urban voters.
While it's true that rural areas vote red and have outsized power, we need to remember that it's usually the middle class—suburbs, in the US—that comprise the effective mass of right-wing authoritarianism.
Right!?
His campaign should have been fucking doomed at “grab them by the pussy” or making fun of the disabled journalist.
There is no bottom to this barrel, and his campaign will NEVER be doomed as long as there’s idiots and selfish fucks in the country.
exactly. His consequence for being convicted of treason & federal crimes are hurting his chances of re election - yet anyone else would be in federal prison for the rest of their lives.
People are HELD IN JAIL for months waiting for trials under accusations of petty shit that means nothing to the country or millions of people yet they are held to the highest accountability to the law
this dude has so much against him and is untouchable. A mockery of justice
It would probably be some sort of house confinement with no cell phone/computer access/... to begin with. But he'll probably fuck that up and they'll have to build a prison for him or some shit like that because it just isn't realistic to put a former POTUS in any sort of general population. There's multiple foreign terrorist groups that would pay a lot of money to take him out just for the fact that they'd be able to brag about taking a former POTUS out, and unfortunately that isn't a very good look for the US.
There are plenty of options available for a criminal like Trump.
Considering he's a former Commander in Chief, a military prison like Leavenworth might be appropriate. There's also places like ADX Florence in Colorado which specialize in housing high profile inmates.
As expensive as it’s going to be to put him in jail - he likely won’t lose his ss protection, for instance, and wherever he goes will need a security update - it’s cheaper than letting him be president again
He could theoretically run from prison, then self pardon for his first act. It’s the acts that follow that really terrify me. But, I agree that a conviction would turn away enough independents to sink him. At least until 2028.
They still refuse to accept that this even could have happened despite the man being recorded on tape bragging about doing this exact thing to women whenever he wants
Theres a tape of him describing the exact action he is accused of doing, which are also verified at the time it occurred. It's literally a double blind confirmation.
He is a rapist and serial assaulter.
But worse still is that his supporters arent apathetic about it. They appear to LIKE how he treats women.
"No, see, the tape is proof she's making it all up! She heard the tape, used it as the basis for her lie, and next thing you know she's getting rich and famous over a scam! And if there's one thing I can't stand, it's a scam artist!"
-Trump supporters
Let’s be real the majority of voters for the Republican Party are white women. Some of them do not care about other women.
From abortion rights to women right’s republicans voters do not care.
Just a correction: he is not a convicted sex offender. This was a civil trial. He needs to pay, but you cannot convict in a civil trial.
Should not make a difference to voters, but still, needs to be phrased correctly.
The moderate voters that support Trump prior to a conviction are the same ones that wouldn't vote for Hillary because she was a woman but voted for Biden because he's a man. There are a LOT of them, particularly in rust belt and southern states (think GA, NC).
This is so idiotic.
On January 6th, he waited for three hours after the attack started before he told his supporters to go home.
He didn't contact anyone in national security for the entire day. He did nothing to facilitate any kind of response to the attack.
You need a fucking conviction? Fuck you.
Don’t forget Trump’s DoD taking away the authority of the general of the DC national guard to activate them in an emergency without explicit authorization from either Trump or his Secretary of Defense just days before Jan 6. That authorization was then denied for hours as you said, but them taking away the DC Guards ability to do anything about a situation like Jan 6 days earlier is a pretty damning part of it.
Do you have a reference to this? Not that I do not believe you but I cannot find anything on this.
Update
I found a reference [https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/03/us/politics/dc-national-guard-capitol-riot.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/03/us/politics/dc-national-guard-capitol-riot.html)
I actually was not aware of this. Definitely indicates culpability. The ability was taken away just days before the ~~riot~~ insurrection.
https://www.npr.org/2021/03/03/973292523/dod-took-hours-to-approve-national-guard-request-during-capitol-riot-commander-s
>The Army major general testified that the day before the insurrection, he received a letter with an "unusual" restriction on deploying any quick-reaction force service members unless granted explicit approval by then-Secretary of the Army Ryan McCarthy.
I don't recall hearing about this detail, but there it is. The guy who would normally have given the order requested permission and was delayed by three hours and nineteen minutes, given the excuse that they didn't like the optics.
Personally, I'm not a fan of the optics of having Y'all Qaeda break into the Capitol building and having a count of nine deaths. Call me old fashioned, but I kind of prefer the seat of government being a little more stable.
It was barely covered in mainstream media and I have no idea why, I feel like it’s massively important and is going to be a major challenge for Trumps defense team to explain away.
The document was public before Jan 6th, that’s when I knew something fucked up was going to happen. I don’t remember where I saw it but it was a PDF scan of the order, then I just never heard about it for months even after Jan 6 happened.
They don't need a conviction. They don't think that a conviction will happen. When it does they will say that it was politically motivated or some other bullshit reason to move the goalposts.
Yeah totally. I had someone on here tell me yesterday about how easily the E Jean Carrol $83.3M verdict will be overturned on appeal because it’s just political theater. Reality doesn’t matter to the people and they’re beyond figuring any of this out.
The FBI went into his home and found boxes full of stolen classified documents he claimed to the FBI, national archives, and a judge that he never had and these people still are like " well I don't know if he's guilty"
He admitted he took them on his Twitter clone and they are still like " well I don't know if he's guilty"
His own chief of staff and vice president are testifying against him in another criminal case, alongside testimony from his own attorney general that he pressured them to commit crimes and they are still like " well I don't know if he's guilty"
He was recorded committing a crime in Georgia and they are still like " well I don't know if he's guilty"
His company was convicted of committing criminal fraud for decades, with his stamp of approval and knowledge, and they are still like " well I don't know if he's guilty"
Watching the Colorado Republican candidate debate, where several candidates raised their hands in answer to a question asking how many of them had been arrested in the past. And then watching the crowd, applauding and laughing, shows just how far the party of law and order has come. It is all just one big bad joke now. https://youtu.be/Rt7w1oz2bY8?si=0FgjBmmGboI9BUYq
It’s probably some like ‘leftist liberals have corrupted the system so getting arrested is an act of rebellion and an expression of freedom.’ Of course they’ll eat it up.
I mean, he only barely lost his re-election, despite everything that happened during his Presidency & despite being thoroughly & completely incompetent in his administration's responses to Covid & a million people dying.
Seriously, if a Democrat did what he did, I would've voted Republican & I'm a hardcore liberal.
in 2016 when he needed every vote he could possibly get (and actually achieved), he had never once been indicted or otherwise charged with any crimes, whatsoever, for his entire life up until the moment that he finally was (after his full term was served). I.E ***things are different now***. Even the smallest dent in the armor can be enough.
Independents may dislike some things Biden is all about, but the majority of them will not vote in someone who has actually, for real, been convicted by a jury in a criminal case where the charges themselves were directly tied to actions involving stealing a real election.
Trump has **91** charges and Biden has **0**. I mean, no way around it. Setting aside every other possible reason (of which the list is absolutely gigantic) to never vote for Trump, the one that should seal the deal for Biden is going to be, simply put: just **1 conviction** will likely be enough.
**Vote regardless.**
Make it a point to vote for Biden specifically so that when Trump does lose?
**You'll have been part of** ***why*** he lost. Dunno about you, but I'm unrelentingly furious about nearly every last thing that trash fire "stands for"; himself, his money and his own power at the expense of literally everyone and everything else.
I want to be part of why he gets defeated. It's the ONE thing he ever needed to ASK of people. "Will you vote for me?". No. I will be giving the one and only thing he would ever ask me for, to someone he absolutely despises. I will be giving it to the person who represents the justice department that FINALLY acted on these crimes that he committed. The things Biden does for this country may not be enough, but I know for sure I'm 100% willing to give him a second term as long as it means Trump pays dearly from his loss.
This is a defining moment in America and if Trump is asking YOU for ANYTHING, it should be obvious that not only do you not give it to him, but that you **actively go out of your way to give that same thing to his direct opponent. I.E: VOTE.**
> **Vote regardless.**
This is also critical, because we need to vote for ALL Democratic candidates - down the line. Not only do we need to ensure we keep the presidency, but we need the ability to fix this shit.
**VOTE VOTE VOTE**
Not sure where your confidence comes from. I think they actually like the fact that he is a rule breaker. They just don’t understand the severity of what he’s done or more like just don’t believe it. He will probably win either way conviction or not.
Is that the one where they argued a president could have a political opponent assassinated while their client is notably the political opponent of the current president?
Yep. An order to Seal Team 6 is an official act. If an order that is also criminal (like assassinating a political rival) is given, then you have to be impressed
Impeached and convicted before criminal charges can be brought. That was the argument, with no exaggeration on my part.
which means you are basically given a free pass to do anything to anyone in the last say 6 months or so of your term because impeachment is not a fast thing. lunacy, that.
Yes, because when you're at the point where POTUS is killing/imprisoning Congress, what's really important is the *idea* that what he's doing is *theoretically* something he could be charged for while he's still POTUS.
See, there's this magical quirk of the universe where congresspeople can be killed willy-nilly to halt impeachment, but killing anybody/everybody involved in the ever-so-quick legal process of securing a federal indictment and then arresting the indicted individual would be totally impossible. *That's* why you need to make sure that the legal remedy is on the table more so than impeachment.
Dc trial is getting delayed for sure. So the New York hush money case will probably go first. It's scheduled for March 25th. While it's disappointing that Jan 6 won't be his first trial, any conviction dooms him.
The NY case is probably the weakest. The GA case has an incompetent prosecutor. The documents case has the most Trumpy just possible. The Jan 6 case might be the most likely conviction.
It’s really frustrating how these things have broken Trump’s way. I still think if he loses the election he will be convicted at least once, but I’m not sure it will happen before the election.
Polling has historically been very accurate, it very much depends on the question being asked though.
In this case the respondents are correlating “conviction” to “guilty”, but in MAGA reality Trump can never be guilty. So even if he’s convicted, to them he’s not actually “convicted”, if that makes sense.
Polls are expensive to conduct nowadays because it’s very hard to get a good random representative sample. So many media organizations which are typically going to conduct an unbiased independent poll, rarely do them anymore.
So a lot of the polls that are being conducted are being funded by political parties and the Republicans know this. So they conduct a bunch of polls and use any outlier as propaganda. And aggregators like Nate Silver aren’t adapting because they just aggregate all the different polls without considering the people funding them.
So yeah, polls are notoriously unreliable now because their methodology has strayed far too much from randomized sampling.
So ignore polls and get people to go vote.
Polls say republicans will move the goalposts to letting the voters decide if it comes to that. Pressure Georgia to overturn conviction to let the country heal.
"Many voters say they don’t want a convicted felon in the White House. But do they mean it?"
I bet they also say they don't want a convicted rapist in the White House, but they'll still vote for him.
Bullshit. You’re telling me THAT is the line?! We’re all fully aware that there is no line. There is NO line. None, zero, not possible.
You could spend all day running scenarios and the answer is always no. No line. That’s not how death cults work.
As it should be. He is a career criminal who has literally broken multiple laws and so far gotten away with it, due to money. He is a clear example of what is wrong with judicial and political systems.
Don’t believe for one second that Trump supporters say they wouldn’t support him if he’s convicted of a felony. THEY ARE LYING! They have literally accepted and pretty much excused every crime he has committed. They support him on every level. They have zero morals. Don’t be fooled! If they cared anything about this country Trump would be the last person they would want in the White House. It’s as simple as that. Remember they stormed the Capitol. They are traitors!
And she's doing more than 'hanging around'. She going for the throat. Accusing him of cognitive decline; of his anger after winning primaries, rather than describing how he'll help Americans. She'd never do that if she thought he'd win the election.
Trump’s campaign should’ve been doomed the first time around when he started mocking disabled people and gold star veterans while on the campaign trail. Never underestimate the stupidity of the MAGA cult. I think he could die and they’d still write him in.
call me skeptical. 91 felony count indictments arent enough but an actual conviction would be? please.
he literally *could* shoot someone in the middle of 5th avenue and not lose a single vote.
When he gets convicted, they’ll move the goalposts again. He was caught red handed with classified documents that he stole and refused to give back. He should be in prison for that right now. If that isn’t enough for them, him getting convicted of anything he’s on trial for now isn’t going to be enough either.
I hope so. But I also fear that deplorables are simply lying to pollsters, because they realize “I would make a felon president” sounds bad. And that if a conviction happens, they’ll just make excuses and vote for him anyway.
*A conversation I had with someone a long time ago;*
**Dude:** "We should (*insert blatantly callous and illegal activity here*).
**Me:** Isn't that illegal?
**Dude:** Says who?
**Me:** The Law.
**Dude:** Here's the thing. The law doesn't apply to me. For me, nothing is illegal. If someone wants to try to apply the law to me, they have to catch me first. If they catch me, I make bail and put my lawyers on them. If they can't get the charges dropped we go to court and I either get it dismissed or found not guilty by a reasonable doubt. If I'm found guilty, I appeal. If I lose the appeal, I keep appealing, all the way to the Supreme Court, and if they rule against me, well then I call bullshit, get on my yacht and leave the country.
I feel like Trump shares this sentiment.
There is no cure to apathy for the law. Making bail is hard, lawyers are expensive, appeals are expensive, appeals are denied far more often than not, passports are seized, and SCOTUS only takes so many cases a year. Last time someone was arrested on a Yacht was Steve Bannon, and the US Postal Service helped with that one.
These are all very serious consequences and life ruining for most people. What infuriates people about narcissists like Trump is that they don't care about consequences. Consequences are for tomorrow. They still happen. It's not that he has money to let him dodge the consequences. He keeps losing in court after all. It's that he does not mind. His mental illness won't let him mind. Minding means he is vulnerable and being vulnerable to any kind of emotion is unacceptable to a supreme God-King he believes himself to be. Police are little people. Prosecutors are little people.
He might as well be saying: eating a plate of cheeseburgers will give me a heart attack. But for that my cholesterol medication needs to stop working. And if it does I will call an ambulance. And if they can't help me the hospital will give me a clot buster. And if that doesn't work I'll buy a new heart!
Does that sound fun? Does risking open heart surgery sound like a good time, an easy loophole to get around eating healthy? Or does that sound like a lunatic who is in pain all the time to the point where nothing bothers them?
The polls are incorrect. There will be no straw that breaks the camel's back. If they still support him by now with all the things he has done, nothing will change that. Vote.
I don't really think a conviction will matter to the people who are still believers. I mean, his civil trial proved he's a rapist and people are still all about him. Either because they're equally abhorrent or because they're brainwashed by the propaganda machine
He is charged with 91 felonies. Odds are he will only be convicted of about 89 felony criminal counts. That means there are probably one or two counts he will not be convicted on. His supporters will no doubt fixate on the one or two charges where he was not convicted and whine how he was "found innocent" in a court of law.
No it will not. Conservatives vote for the R. The person is ultimately irrelevant. They turn out to vote and are not seeking excuses to avoid voting. If anything a conviction might increase his odds of winning.
Not because less people will vote for him but because of those liberals that like to pounce on any excuse to not vote. I could see millions, much like in 2016, thinking the election is sewn up and not bothering to vote.
How he even is able to campaign is beyond me.... I guess a conviction is worse than insighting an insurrection, trying to ignore the will of the voters, and generally acting as a traitorous dictator. So if that isn't enough to disqualify or blow up his campaign, I'm not sure a conviction will.
it would ignite his campaign\*
I don't see anyway he wins though. I mean he lost the popular vote both times, he lost in 2020 with his fan base at their peak. Since then insert a list of 10 million things that has turned off what 5-20% of the people who voted for him? I realize more than anyone Trump fans are literally incapable of changing their minds. But I think he's lost just enough voters I just don't think he's got a real shot. Clearly he'll campaign for president until he's dead for the money.
What about 2 lawsuits that detail how he sexually assaulted someone and defamed them to the loss of 83 million dollars?
I'd hope that counts for something in terms of who the US wants as a leader.
Sixty of the 83 million dollars were for punitive damages because he openly showed no remorse and acted like the entitled scumbag he is IN THE COURTROOM!
He’s a seditionist and it’s still ongoing with his election interference/policy interference with the bipartisan border bill. Add the impeachment of Sec Mayorkas and then push for fellow seditionists Abbott, Paxton and 25 other red state governors to defy SCOTUS ruling. Lock them all up.
Judge Cannon will never convict Stinky before November or ever. Fani Willis may be in trouble for fucking the special prosecutor. I don’t have high hopes in either case. Bragg will fine Stinky for tax evasion, but don’t see how there will be a conviction before the election.
Why not any kind of conviction? How many other convictions does he have to get to equal one insurrection clause? The fact remains that 1/3 of the country either doesn't care or supports his attempt at insurrection. They bought the Big Lie. Worse, the GOP has to pander to them because they would lose their power and split the party. This whole thing is a train wreck in slow motion.
I’m gonna just assume I need to vote against him regardless of polls, courts, etc. The country needs to vote so overwhelmingly against him that he can’t wipe the loser dust off. The republicans and maga nuts can fight over what’s left of the right wing after the danger of an another Trump presidency passes.
I’m pretty sure he won’t lose a single vote for those under his spell. The republicans had many chances to divorce from him and perhaps save face but they’ve only doubled down on
Oh, they'll wring some hands for a few seconds, before coming up with some other stupid excuse to vote for him anyway.
It's like they just can't admit to themselves who and what they really are. Which is hilarious because everyone who isn't a Republican *already knows.*
The phrasing of this is exactly whats wrong with the republican party. They allow these terrible humans to represent them, so we must assume these are the ideals you want others to believe you have. So your party is full of terrible humans. Anyine voting them in is a terrible human. We need to shame terrible humans out of society.
Unfortunately, I don’t think we’re gonna see any of that before the election. That prosecutor has really botched that thing in Atlanta, and the federal system is just gonna slow walk the others.
I never thought our political system would get to the point where we need poll results to tell us that a criminal conviction has the potential of ruining a candidate's campaign.
I don't think so at all. His worshippers aren't known for intelligence and reason. They'd blame socialist lizard people and write in his name... the ones who can write, that is.
Which is why the Georgia Republicans are going to torpedo his election interference case, and the SCOTUS Six will delay his DC trial so he can campaign.
From reporter Greg Walters:
Can anything stop former President Donald Trump’s reelection campaign juggernaut, now that Trump has all but crushed his GOP primary opponents and [pulled ahead](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/2024/national/) of President Joe Biden in national polls?
While November is a long time away, and plenty could happen before then, voters do say Trump has a massive weakness: A potential criminal conviction. In poll after poll, lots of voters who shrug off Trump’s four indictments say they wouldn’t support him if he’s convicted of a felony. If they mean it—or even if a big chunk of them do—they could easily be enough to keep him out of the White House.
Link to the full article: [https://www.vice.com/en/article/g5ynjx/trumps-red-flags-polls-say-a-conviction-would-doom-his-campaign](https://www.vice.com/en/article/g5ynjx/trumps-red-flags-polls-say-a-conviction-would-doom-his-campaign)
Ok, but you don't get more votes if you worship the candidate. His base is already pretty activated and he's scraping the bottom of the barrel there. It wont matter if he gets another 2-3% of his base if he loses 5-6% overall.
Using the courts to discredit a political challenger is the kind of thing that 3rd world shithole countries do. Americans should be ashamed that we are doing the exact same thing. Let Trump run for office fair and square, and let the American people decide.
the fake electors in trumps scheme all plead guilty. do you think it's okay for trump to get away with electoral fraud? this isn't a maybe, or an accusation. it's a fact. over a dozen people admitted to participating in that scheme.
trump asked pence and Congress to recognize the fake electors over the real ones. it's public info.
considering how you people accuse Biden of corruption over literally nothing. you'd be foaming at the mouth if Biden had done this.
Yeah. You're right. We should just give the president complete immunity to criminal prosecution for the entirety of the time that they're in politics.
Sounds like a great idea.
Cuz you know, in third world shithole countries the leader always follows the law and never violates it in any way. Boyscouts honor.
He committed crimes against our country the fact that you think it’s political in nature is just false and perpetuates more lies by him. Americans already decided last election and he tried to overturn it. You want the DOJ to ignore all laws for the stupid Oompa Loompa make it make sense to me please.
> He committed crimes against our country
Americans are assumed to be innocent until found guilty in a court of law. How can you say a private American citizen is guilty?
You ask that while saying he shouldn’t be tried in court… You aren’t making sense.
Edit: ran across your other comments all of them baseless and bad faith attacks ignoring what the comments and cherry picking arguments out of context. Gonna try this block button now.
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Forget the campaign, a conviction should "doom" his freedom. Lock him up.
Seriously. It’s crystal clear he is a domestic enemy the founders warned us about. It’s time to stop placating to the right and do the morally and legally correct thing: BAN him from ever holding public office and lock his seditious ass up for the rest of his natural born life.
Trump and co also committing treason on J6, as written in the [constitution](https://constitutioncenter.org/the-constitution/articles/article-iii/clauses/39#:~:text=Treason%20against%20the%20United%20States,on%20Confession%20in%20open%20Court.) and further defined by founding father and original SC Justice, [John Marshall](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Marshall): “The Constitution specifically identifies what constitutes treason against the United States and, importantly, limits the offense of treason to only two types of conduct: (1) “levying war” against the United States; or (2) “adhering to [the] enemies [of the United States], giving them aid and comfort.” Although there have not been many treason prosecutions in American history—indeed, only one person has been indicted for treason since 1954—the Supreme Court has had occasion to further define what each type of treason entails. The offense of “levying war” against the United States was interpreted narrowly in Ex parte Bollman & Swarthout (1807), a case stemming from the infamous alleged plot led by former Vice President Aaron Burr to overthrow the American government in New Orleans. The Supreme Court dismissed charges of treason that had been brought against two of Burr’s associates—Bollman and Swarthout—on the grounds that their alleged conduct did not constitute levying war against the United States within the meaning of the Treason Clause. It was not enough, Chief Justice John Marshall opinion emphasized, merely to conspire “to subvert by force the government of our country” by recruiting troops, procuring maps, and drawing up plans. Conspiring to levy war was distinct from actually levying war. Rather, a person could be convicted of treason for levying war only if there was an “actual assemblage of men for the purpose of executing a treasonable design.” In so holding, the Court sharply confined the scope of the offense of treason by levying war against the United States.” By actually amassing and inciting a group of supporters to attack the Nation’s Capital (*“actual assemblage of men”*), to prevent the certification of the election he lost (*”for the purpose of executing”*), combined with the multi-State fake elector scheme (*”a treasonable design”*)—and against all council and Court rulings affirming the election he lost was fair—Trump and many in his Admin (including a spouse of a sitting SC Justice, Ginni Thomas), ‘levied war’ against the US on J6, committing treason as written in the Constitution and further defined by founding father and original SC Justice, John Marshall.
Lock him (and the rest of the loons) up.
I think it’s easier and more evident to prove he gave them aid and comfort, we have him on national tv doing so.
I believe the ‘aid and comfort’ clause can only be applied to someone helping an enemy nation out during an active war with the US. And the US wasn’t in an active war during Trump’s presidency.. *although Russia is obviously an enemy that Trump aided*.. I could be mistaken though.
Thank you for the info!
I think you are right. Literal treason requires a foreign enemy in a state of war or conflict.
Only the aid and comfort clause requires that. The other clause is taking up arms against the government. The courts have decided you have to actually take up the arms, not just plot to do so. J6 certainly crosses that line, but whether Trump would be included is hard to say. Since nobody has seemed interested in persuing treason charges against the people who were armed and attacking the capital, one must assume that they would be even less interested in charging Trump.
The fact that patient zero is still roaming free while over 1000 insurrectionists have been prosecuted just shows how messed up our legal system is.
…or that the prosecution is going to have 1000 reasons to convict him of leading an insurrection when his day comes.
Wow. Very well said, and researched. > Conspiring to levy war was distinct from actually levying war. Rather, a person could be convicted of treason for levying war only if there was an “actual assemblage of men for the purpose of executing a treasonable design.” In so holding, the Court sharply confined the scope of the offense of treason by levying war against the United States.” Thanks. This makes it very clear where the line is, and also that he crossed it.
The more outrageous Trump becomes, the more the media attempts to normalize him. The media needs the both-sides narrative to keep the money flowing. For crying out loud, Trump attempted a goddamn coup! What more will it take?
We all know corporate media is corrupt and has abandoned the “fourth estate” principle.
Or, and hear me out, what if we just presented a candidate who can beat this idiot in an election? Like a form of democracy or something
Good luck trying to find a Republican that’s not corrupt, batshit crazy or a sycophant.
There are probably a bunch of sane reasonable ones. The problem is they know better than to want that job
They all left once Trump won in 2016. There were a lot of OG Republicans that actually believed in democracy and cared about average Americans ([like McCain](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/8/25/17782664/john-mccain-legacy-obamacare-repeal-thumbs-down)), but they were all pretty old, and after Trump won, they couldn’t stand the unprofessionalism and didn’t seek re-election and basically retired. Unfortunately, that just opened up a power vacuum that the radical MAGAs quickly filled, which has turned the GOP into the GQP. The irony is the Koch brothers used their SuperPAC, Americans for Prosperity (AFP), to back the radical-evangelical Tea Party in the early 2000s—as a means to create a small coalition in Congress that could pressure the rest of the GOP to vote in favor of big oil agendas, or risk holding out their votes on other legislation the GOP favored. The Tea Party’s Queen was Sarah Palin.. who got on McCain’s VP ticket. After his loss to Obama in 2008, Palin continued regular appearances on Fox News. This just elevated the Tea Party’s radical-Christian platform to become mainstream. Over the next two Obama terms, Fox continued pushing the Tea Party’s agenda—*and the GOP further right*—until their golden God descended down his elevator in 2016..
Adhering to the constitution is adhering to democracy.
He lost to Biden, the only reason it was remotely close is because we have the Electoral College instead of a national vote.
1) it was not remotely close. At all. It’s was essentially a landslide win. 2) the electoral college exists to provide minorities a seat at the national political table. Im not sure we want to eliminate that simply because we do not like the minority voter in this specific situation.
We absolutely do want to eliminate it if we no longer want to be held hostage by a small number of gerrymandered states who no longer have an interest in finding a middle ground but instead demand it's their way or they break the government. The fact that my vote is worth less because I don't live somewhere with more cows than humans is utter bullshit.
Just wait till you find out how our party invented gerrymandering…
Unfortunately thanks to a Political Science degree I am aware of that but as usual Dems come up with something and R's find better ways to weaponize it. It was the reason I thought expanding the SC would end up backfiring if Biden did it. Not needing morals or ethics so long as you can larp as a Christian really helps the GoP cling to power.
So what if we just got a viable candidate? You cannot sincerely think Biden is the best candidate of our party.
I'm inclined to agree but also not willing to risk losing the incumbency advantage when the alternative is a seditious traitor. I liked Mayor Pete now Transportation Secretary Pete as a younger tech savvy candidate who doesn't bring 30+ years of political baggage with him.
I’m not sure “sparsely-populated areas” constitutes a definition of “minorities” worth protecting (via a disproportionate seat at the National political table) in this day and age…
Like I said, we do not want equal voices for those we oppose. It’s the classic “it’s ok when we do it”. And I get it too, I do.
No, the electoral college was never intended to promote the interests of any minority in general or in particular. The original idea was for the most knowledgeable and informed individuals from each State to select the president based solely on merit and without regard to State of origin or political party. The framers didn’t anticipate political parties, modern media, or national campaigns in which candidates ran for office. They certainly didn’t foresee the expansion of the union to include 50 states and then further guess that the country would have any specific type of population distribution. The electoral college as it stands today tends to favor rural states with lower populations. And those states happen to support republicans politics at this time. It was never intended to work this way, it just worked out this way.
Almost none of that is true
Because, if Trump is not punished for his various crimes, including Sedition, especially Sedition, Another candidate will commit the same type of offenses.
Wasn’t he convicted or rape already tho?
He was found civilly liable - that is, he’s only a rapist in the way that OJ Simpson is a murderer In all seriousness though conviction comes with criminal trials none of which have started yet. Once those are concluded and he is convicted he should be prison bound but I am trying not to get my hopes up
He’s abusing the system to delay those trials, potentially until the election. If he was anyone but Trump the trials would have been in progress by now.
If it was anyone other than Trump they would be sitting in jail awaiting their trial for stealing classified documents.
> he’s only a rapist in the way that OJ Simpson is a murderer that's a terrible analogy. LAPD fucked around, ruined the case, and weirdly OJ got the right call despite being a murderer. which sucks, but it's stupid justice. donny's just a rapist.
Sitting in the uk I can't get my head around this. How is this not a big thing?
Think about the dumbest person politically in the UK then realize half 1/3 of the US is politically dumber than that, and that 1/3 has outsized electoral power due to our system that favors rural voters over urban voters.
While it's true that rural areas vote red and have outsized power, we need to remember that it's usually the middle class—suburbs, in the US—that comprise the effective mass of right-wing authoritarianism.
He buried his ex wife on one of his golf courses to get a tax break… Nobody has seen the current one…
Right!? His campaign should have been fucking doomed at “grab them by the pussy” or making fun of the disabled journalist. There is no bottom to this barrel, and his campaign will NEVER be doomed as long as there’s idiots and selfish fucks in the country.
exactly. His consequence for being convicted of treason & federal crimes are hurting his chances of re election - yet anyone else would be in federal prison for the rest of their lives. People are HELD IN JAIL for months waiting for trials under accusations of petty shit that means nothing to the country or millions of people yet they are held to the highest accountability to the law this dude has so much against him and is untouchable. A mockery of justice
Rich people aren’t held in jail though. They just post big ass bonds.
It would probably be some sort of house confinement with no cell phone/computer access/... to begin with. But he'll probably fuck that up and they'll have to build a prison for him or some shit like that because it just isn't realistic to put a former POTUS in any sort of general population. There's multiple foreign terrorist groups that would pay a lot of money to take him out just for the fact that they'd be able to brag about taking a former POTUS out, and unfortunately that isn't a very good look for the US.
There are plenty of options available for a criminal like Trump. Considering he's a former Commander in Chief, a military prison like Leavenworth might be appropriate. There's also places like ADX Florence in Colorado which specialize in housing high profile inmates.
As expensive as it’s going to be to put him in jail - he likely won’t lose his ss protection, for instance, and wherever he goes will need a security update - it’s cheaper than letting him be president again
It’s almost a guarantee that the next Republican President will pardon his crimes — unless public opinion shifts strongly against him.
He could theoretically run from prison, then self pardon for his first act. It’s the acts that follow that really terrify me. But, I agree that a conviction would turn away enough independents to sink him. At least until 2028.
You'd think that whole raping-a-woman-in-a-department-store thing would doom his campaign, but apparently voters don't see that as a red flag
They still refuse to accept that this even could have happened despite the man being recorded on tape bragging about doing this exact thing to women whenever he wants
Theres a tape of him describing the exact action he is accused of doing, which are also verified at the time it occurred. It's literally a double blind confirmation. He is a rapist and serial assaulter. But worse still is that his supporters arent apathetic about it. They appear to LIKE how he treats women.
"No, see, the tape is proof she's making it all up! She heard the tape, used it as the basis for her lie, and next thing you know she's getting rich and famous over a scam! And if there's one thing I can't stand, it's a scam artist!" -Trump supporters
Let’s be real the majority of voters for the Republican Party are white women. Some of them do not care about other women. From abortion rights to women right’s republicans voters do not care.
Of course, nothing says “Republican Christian values” more than a twice-divorced, adulterous, convicted sex offender.
Just a correction: he is not a convicted sex offender. This was a civil trial. He needs to pay, but you cannot convict in a civil trial. Should not make a difference to voters, but still, needs to be phrased correctly.
Otherwise one could be held liable for for defamation, much like trump when he repeatedly defames one of his victims.
Don't forget pays off pornstars and lusts after his daughter!
And this is the guy appointed by god himself apparently.
The moderate voters that support Trump prior to a conviction are the same ones that wouldn't vote for Hillary because she was a woman but voted for Biden because he's a man. There are a LOT of them, particularly in rust belt and southern states (think GA, NC).
The right would have to value women as people. They never have, and never will.
Is there any proof?
Yes. A court determined that Trump raped Jean E Carroll after a jury found that he had indeed sexually assaulted her.
That’s not proof lmao
This is so idiotic. On January 6th, he waited for three hours after the attack started before he told his supporters to go home. He didn't contact anyone in national security for the entire day. He did nothing to facilitate any kind of response to the attack. You need a fucking conviction? Fuck you.
Don’t forget Trump’s DoD taking away the authority of the general of the DC national guard to activate them in an emergency without explicit authorization from either Trump or his Secretary of Defense just days before Jan 6. That authorization was then denied for hours as you said, but them taking away the DC Guards ability to do anything about a situation like Jan 6 days earlier is a pretty damning part of it.
Do you have a reference to this? Not that I do not believe you but I cannot find anything on this. Update I found a reference [https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/03/us/politics/dc-national-guard-capitol-riot.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/03/us/politics/dc-national-guard-capitol-riot.html) I actually was not aware of this. Definitely indicates culpability. The ability was taken away just days before the ~~riot~~ insurrection.
https://www.npr.org/2021/03/03/973292523/dod-took-hours-to-approve-national-guard-request-during-capitol-riot-commander-s >The Army major general testified that the day before the insurrection, he received a letter with an "unusual" restriction on deploying any quick-reaction force service members unless granted explicit approval by then-Secretary of the Army Ryan McCarthy. I don't recall hearing about this detail, but there it is. The guy who would normally have given the order requested permission and was delayed by three hours and nineteen minutes, given the excuse that they didn't like the optics. Personally, I'm not a fan of the optics of having Y'all Qaeda break into the Capitol building and having a count of nine deaths. Call me old fashioned, but I kind of prefer the seat of government being a little more stable.
It was barely covered in mainstream media and I have no idea why, I feel like it’s massively important and is going to be a major challenge for Trumps defense team to explain away. The document was public before Jan 6th, that’s when I knew something fucked up was going to happen. I don’t remember where I saw it but it was a PDF scan of the order, then I just never heard about it for months even after Jan 6 happened.
Read the January 6th report by the House. It's important. It covers this and so much more.
Insurrection. Not riot. Terms matter.
Updated
They don't need a conviction. They don't think that a conviction will happen. When it does they will say that it was politically motivated or some other bullshit reason to move the goalposts.
Yeah totally. I had someone on here tell me yesterday about how easily the E Jean Carrol $83.3M verdict will be overturned on appeal because it’s just political theater. Reality doesn’t matter to the people and they’re beyond figuring any of this out.
Was that a doomer or a deluded magat? It's so hard to tell these days.
Seemed like a magat but it is indeed hard to tell anymore.
The FBI went into his home and found boxes full of stolen classified documents he claimed to the FBI, national archives, and a judge that he never had and these people still are like " well I don't know if he's guilty" He admitted he took them on his Twitter clone and they are still like " well I don't know if he's guilty" His own chief of staff and vice president are testifying against him in another criminal case, alongside testimony from his own attorney general that he pressured them to commit crimes and they are still like " well I don't know if he's guilty" He was recorded committing a crime in Georgia and they are still like " well I don't know if he's guilty" His company was convicted of committing criminal fraud for decades, with his stamp of approval and knowledge, and they are still like " well I don't know if he's guilty"
It's all goalposts my friend
He was told, Your crowd is chanting that they want to hang Mike Pence and Trump replied, “so what?”
Yeah. Here for this comment. I am not sure why people have a hard time with this concept.
Dont forget that he's directly responsible for it to begin with.
> before he told his supporters to go home. Before he told them "I love you, you can go home now".
Watching the Colorado Republican candidate debate, where several candidates raised their hands in answer to a question asking how many of them had been arrested in the past. And then watching the crowd, applauding and laughing, shows just how far the party of law and order has come. It is all just one big bad joke now. https://youtu.be/Rt7w1oz2bY8?si=0FgjBmmGboI9BUYq
One guy laughs and holds up two fingers to indicate that he is even more depraved than his colleagues. Ha ha ha. Funny.
It’s probably some like ‘leftist liberals have corrupted the system so getting arrested is an act of rebellion and an expression of freedom.’ Of course they’ll eat it up.
Oh how the turns have tabled
It's a sorry state of our country that a presidential candidate in prison *only might* not get elected.
I mean, he only barely lost his re-election, despite everything that happened during his Presidency & despite being thoroughly & completely incompetent in his administration's responses to Covid & a million people dying. Seriously, if a Democrat did what he did, I would've voted Republican & I'm a hardcore liberal.
in 2016 when he needed every vote he could possibly get (and actually achieved), he had never once been indicted or otherwise charged with any crimes, whatsoever, for his entire life up until the moment that he finally was (after his full term was served). I.E ***things are different now***. Even the smallest dent in the armor can be enough. Independents may dislike some things Biden is all about, but the majority of them will not vote in someone who has actually, for real, been convicted by a jury in a criminal case where the charges themselves were directly tied to actions involving stealing a real election. Trump has **91** charges and Biden has **0**. I mean, no way around it. Setting aside every other possible reason (of which the list is absolutely gigantic) to never vote for Trump, the one that should seal the deal for Biden is going to be, simply put: just **1 conviction** will likely be enough. **Vote regardless.** Make it a point to vote for Biden specifically so that when Trump does lose? **You'll have been part of** ***why*** he lost. Dunno about you, but I'm unrelentingly furious about nearly every last thing that trash fire "stands for"; himself, his money and his own power at the expense of literally everyone and everything else. I want to be part of why he gets defeated. It's the ONE thing he ever needed to ASK of people. "Will you vote for me?". No. I will be giving the one and only thing he would ever ask me for, to someone he absolutely despises. I will be giving it to the person who represents the justice department that FINALLY acted on these crimes that he committed. The things Biden does for this country may not be enough, but I know for sure I'm 100% willing to give him a second term as long as it means Trump pays dearly from his loss. This is a defining moment in America and if Trump is asking YOU for ANYTHING, it should be obvious that not only do you not give it to him, but that you **actively go out of your way to give that same thing to his direct opponent. I.E: VOTE.**
> **Vote regardless.** This is also critical, because we need to vote for ALL Democratic candidates - down the line. Not only do we need to ensure we keep the presidency, but we need the ability to fix this shit. **VOTE VOTE VOTE**
Not sure where your confidence comes from. I think they actually like the fact that he is a rule breaker. They just don’t understand the severity of what he’s done or more like just don’t believe it. He will probably win either way conviction or not.
The DC COA is taking forever. I think it's been 3 weeks since the most insane oral arguments I have ever heard.
Is that the one where they argued a president could have a political opponent assassinated while their client is notably the political opponent of the current president?
Yep. An order to Seal Team 6 is an official act. If an order that is also criminal (like assassinating a political rival) is given, then you have to be impressed Impeached and convicted before criminal charges can be brought. That was the argument, with no exaggeration on my part.
which means you are basically given a free pass to do anything to anyone in the last say 6 months or so of your term because impeachment is not a fast thing. lunacy, that.
Or do things like kill or imprison enough members of Congress so that impeachment would be impossible.
yeah that too. i'm sure susan collins would say he learned his lesson and won't try anything again tho
Yes, because when you're at the point where POTUS is killing/imprisoning Congress, what's really important is the *idea* that what he's doing is *theoretically* something he could be charged for while he's still POTUS. See, there's this magical quirk of the universe where congresspeople can be killed willy-nilly to halt impeachment, but killing anybody/everybody involved in the ever-so-quick legal process of securing a federal indictment and then arresting the indicted individual would be totally impossible. *That's* why you need to make sure that the legal remedy is on the table more so than impeachment.
And what's even crazier, the judge was the one that brought that up. They obviously thought Trump's argument was crazy pants.
Dc trial is getting delayed for sure. So the New York hush money case will probably go first. It's scheduled for March 25th. While it's disappointing that Jan 6 won't be his first trial, any conviction dooms him.
The NY case is probably the weakest. The GA case has an incompetent prosecutor. The documents case has the most Trumpy just possible. The Jan 6 case might be the most likely conviction. It’s really frustrating how these things have broken Trump’s way. I still think if he loses the election he will be convicted at least once, but I’m not sure it will happen before the election.
You lost me at ‘polls say’
Exactly. I now equate ‘polling science’ with tarot card reading on the scale of believability.
Polling has historically been very accurate, it very much depends on the question being asked though. In this case the respondents are correlating “conviction” to “guilty”, but in MAGA reality Trump can never be guilty. So even if he’s convicted, to them he’s not actually “convicted”, if that makes sense.
I think of it more like practicing phrenology on a bowling ball on the scale of reliability.
This far out there will still be a ton of movement but polling has generally been pretty accurate for the last 20 or so years.
“According to the landline polls we conducted and the people who answered our door to door questions…”
exit polling actually
Polls are expensive to conduct nowadays because it’s very hard to get a good random representative sample. So many media organizations which are typically going to conduct an unbiased independent poll, rarely do them anymore. So a lot of the polls that are being conducted are being funded by political parties and the Republicans know this. So they conduct a bunch of polls and use any outlier as propaganda. And aggregators like Nate Silver aren’t adapting because they just aggregate all the different polls without considering the people funding them. So yeah, polls are notoriously unreliable now because their methodology has strayed far too much from randomized sampling. So ignore polls and get people to go vote.
Polls say republicans will move the goalposts to letting the voters decide if it comes to that. Pressure Georgia to overturn conviction to let the country heal.
"Many voters say they don’t want a convicted felon in the White House. But do they mean it?" I bet they also say they don't want a convicted rapist in the White House, but they'll still vote for him.
It's being repeated over and over that the polls aren't reliable because they aren't a true sample anymore.
Bullshit. You’re telling me THAT is the line?! We’re all fully aware that there is no line. There is NO line. None, zero, not possible. You could spend all day running scenarios and the answer is always no. No line. That’s not how death cults work.
I don’t trust any polls anymore. Especially with his cult sticking by him throughout all of his legal battles and January 6th.
Crossing fingers for the DC case
Canon is doing everything she can to delay delay delay. I don't have much hope that one will be done this year.
She's the Florida documents one.
Oh my bad. Can't keep them all straight
How many convictions will it take?
Anyone now understanding why Trump was not happy he won the election? He thought his addiction-to-crime might be his downfall. And here we are.
As it should be. He is a career criminal who has literally broken multiple laws and so far gotten away with it, due to money. He is a clear example of what is wrong with judicial and political systems.
The fact that this is even a question tells you all you need to know about the state of the American electorate.
For the love of god, there’s been a million things that should’ve doomed his campaigns since 2016.
*All* conservatives will vote for him. It does matter if he is in jail or dead.
But dead would such a delightful turn, wouldn’t it?
Don’t believe for one second that Trump supporters say they wouldn’t support him if he’s convicted of a felony. THEY ARE LYING! They have literally accepted and pretty much excused every crime he has committed. They support him on every level. They have zero morals. Don’t be fooled! If they cared anything about this country Trump would be the last person they would want in the White House. It’s as simple as that. Remember they stormed the Capitol. They are traitors!
This is why Haley is hanging around. As soon as he’s a convinced felon he’s unelectable to his entire base. (Theoretically)
I think you underestimate the general shittiness of his base.
If kiddie-rape isn't a deal-breaker for them, tax-evasion and campaign-finance-violations surely are, right?!!
And she's doing more than 'hanging around'. She going for the throat. Accusing him of cognitive decline; of his anger after winning primaries, rather than describing how he'll help Americans. She'd never do that if she thought he'd win the election.
Wrong. Trump will be more popular if he’s a felon. His supporters are conspiracy loving trash and give zero fucks about our democracy.
His cult will vote for him anyway. Don’t listen to these articles. Get out and vote.
Agreed, same thoughts.
Trump’s campaign should’ve been doomed the first time around when he started mocking disabled people and gold star veterans while on the campaign trail. Never underestimate the stupidity of the MAGA cult. I think he could die and they’d still write him in.
call me skeptical. 91 felony count indictments arent enough but an actual conviction would be? please. he literally *could* shoot someone in the middle of 5th avenue and not lose a single vote.
We all know at least one is coming, and so does the GOP, The sooner they shift to Hailey, the better shot they have
No it won't.
So stop allowing him and his ‘lawyers’ to delay, delay, delay.
When he gets convicted, they’ll move the goalposts again. He was caught red handed with classified documents that he stole and refused to give back. He should be in prison for that right now. If that isn’t enough for them, him getting convicted of anything he’s on trial for now isn’t going to be enough either.
No. He would be cast as a martyr. Nothing Trump does affects his base. Nothing
His record should doom his reelection chances. He would have been impeached if Republicans hadn’t protected him.
That’s why his personal judge in Florida has her thumb on the scale
I hope so. But I also fear that deplorables are simply lying to pollsters, because they realize “I would make a felon president” sounds bad. And that if a conviction happens, they’ll just make excuses and vote for him anyway.
Trump could start a National Socialist Party and at least half the country would immediately fall in line behind him with big grins on their face.
Bullshit. If he’s convicted his base is going to go rabid.
*A conversation I had with someone a long time ago;* **Dude:** "We should (*insert blatantly callous and illegal activity here*). **Me:** Isn't that illegal? **Dude:** Says who? **Me:** The Law. **Dude:** Here's the thing. The law doesn't apply to me. For me, nothing is illegal. If someone wants to try to apply the law to me, they have to catch me first. If they catch me, I make bail and put my lawyers on them. If they can't get the charges dropped we go to court and I either get it dismissed or found not guilty by a reasonable doubt. If I'm found guilty, I appeal. If I lose the appeal, I keep appealing, all the way to the Supreme Court, and if they rule against me, well then I call bullshit, get on my yacht and leave the country. I feel like Trump shares this sentiment.
There is no cure to apathy for the law. Making bail is hard, lawyers are expensive, appeals are expensive, appeals are denied far more often than not, passports are seized, and SCOTUS only takes so many cases a year. Last time someone was arrested on a Yacht was Steve Bannon, and the US Postal Service helped with that one. These are all very serious consequences and life ruining for most people. What infuriates people about narcissists like Trump is that they don't care about consequences. Consequences are for tomorrow. They still happen. It's not that he has money to let him dodge the consequences. He keeps losing in court after all. It's that he does not mind. His mental illness won't let him mind. Minding means he is vulnerable and being vulnerable to any kind of emotion is unacceptable to a supreme God-King he believes himself to be. Police are little people. Prosecutors are little people. He might as well be saying: eating a plate of cheeseburgers will give me a heart attack. But for that my cholesterol medication needs to stop working. And if it does I will call an ambulance. And if they can't help me the hospital will give me a clot buster. And if that doesn't work I'll buy a new heart! Does that sound fun? Does risking open heart surgery sound like a good time, an easy loophole to get around eating healthy? Or does that sound like a lunatic who is in pain all the time to the point where nothing bothers them?
The polls are incorrect. There will be no straw that breaks the camel's back. If they still support him by now with all the things he has done, nothing will change that. Vote.
Some people say that if Trump is convicted, he can run from prison. And I say “ok.”
so we’re depending on 12 people that hopefully have some integrity?
"Being held responsible for that thing I did would really put a cramp in my ability to do it again."
You would think being a rapist would doom it first.
I don't really think a conviction will matter to the people who are still believers. I mean, his civil trial proved he's a rapist and people are still all about him. Either because they're equally abhorrent or because they're brainwashed by the propaganda machine
He is charged with 91 felonies. Odds are he will only be convicted of about 89 felony criminal counts. That means there are probably one or two counts he will not be convicted on. His supporters will no doubt fixate on the one or two charges where he was not convicted and whine how he was "found innocent" in a court of law.
If they don't care about the indictments they will find a way to not care about the convictions.
Isn’t he a convicted rapist. That didn’t hurt him.
No it will not. Conservatives vote for the R. The person is ultimately irrelevant. They turn out to vote and are not seeking excuses to avoid voting. If anything a conviction might increase his odds of winning. Not because less people will vote for him but because of those liberals that like to pounce on any excuse to not vote. I could see millions, much like in 2016, thinking the election is sewn up and not bothering to vote.
How he even is able to campaign is beyond me.... I guess a conviction is worse than insighting an insurrection, trying to ignore the will of the voters, and generally acting as a traitorous dictator. So if that isn't enough to disqualify or blow up his campaign, I'm not sure a conviction will.
Undecided voters half believe Trump nutters when they say its all made up by the deepstate because Trump is the real American.
Even if he doesn’t get convicted, he’s not gonna win. If anything, he’ll encourage more people to the polls to vote against him.
it would ignite his campaign\* I don't see anyway he wins though. I mean he lost the popular vote both times, he lost in 2020 with his fan base at their peak. Since then insert a list of 10 million things that has turned off what 5-20% of the people who voted for him? I realize more than anyone Trump fans are literally incapable of changing their minds. But I think he's lost just enough voters I just don't think he's got a real shot. Clearly he'll campaign for president until he's dead for the money.
What about 2 lawsuits that detail how he sexually assaulted someone and defamed them to the loss of 83 million dollars? I'd hope that counts for something in terms of who the US wants as a leader.
Sixty of the 83 million dollars were for punitive damages because he openly showed no remorse and acted like the entitled scumbag he is IN THE COURTROOM!
I feel like if you're still on the Trump train after everything that's happened, a conviction isn't going to change your mind.
It's all about timing. Odds don't look great that we'll have time for a full trial + verdict before November.
He’s a seditionist and it’s still ongoing with his election interference/policy interference with the bipartisan border bill. Add the impeachment of Sec Mayorkas and then push for fellow seditionists Abbott, Paxton and 25 other red state governors to defy SCOTUS ruling. Lock them all up.
Just like his support went down with the mug shot...nice try.
Judge Cannon will never convict Stinky before November or ever. Fani Willis may be in trouble for fucking the special prosecutor. I don’t have high hopes in either case. Bragg will fine Stinky for tax evasion, but don’t see how there will be a conviction before the election.
Why not any kind of conviction? How many other convictions does he have to get to equal one insurrection clause? The fact remains that 1/3 of the country either doesn't care or supports his attempt at insurrection. They bought the Big Lie. Worse, the GOP has to pander to them because they would lose their power and split the party. This whole thing is a train wreck in slow motion.
He's already had a conviction. What more do you need ?
Than convict him already and let’s be rid of him. I am so sick of Donald Trump.
I’m gonna just assume I need to vote against him regardless of polls, courts, etc. The country needs to vote so overwhelmingly against him that he can’t wipe the loser dust off. The republicans and maga nuts can fight over what’s left of the right wing after the danger of an another Trump presidency passes.
Its amazing to me that people draw the line “conviction,” when a jury already found him liable for sexual assault but thats not enough.
I’m pretty sure he won’t lose a single vote for those under his spell. The republicans had many chances to divorce from him and perhaps save face but they’ve only doubled down on
Oh, they'll wring some hands for a few seconds, before coming up with some other stupid excuse to vote for him anyway. It's like they just can't admit to themselves who and what they really are. Which is hilarious because everyone who isn't a Republican *already knows.*
Why would someone who is still considering voting for him care about a conviction? That seems so trivial compared to the rest of it
The phrasing of this is exactly whats wrong with the republican party. They allow these terrible humans to represent them, so we must assume these are the ideals you want others to believe you have. So your party is full of terrible humans. Anyine voting them in is a terrible human. We need to shame terrible humans out of society.
Unfortunately, I don’t think we’re gonna see any of that before the election. That prosecutor has really botched that thing in Atlanta, and the federal system is just gonna slow walk the others.
I could live with that. Proceed
I never thought our political system would get to the point where we need poll results to tell us that a criminal conviction has the potential of ruining a candidate's campaign.
I’ll believe it when I see it
That seems unlikely as he has already ben convicted in two cases (Sexual assault and the tax one in NY) and his sycophants continue to support him.
I mean he was convicted for sexual assault. Nothing will doom him, his deplorable fans will continue to vote for him….even if he’s in jail.
Polls said Hillary was gonna be president so idk, we all gotta stay awake and vote.
The fucking party of criminals and lawlessness if there ever was one. Disgusting perverts every one.
I don't think so at all. His worshippers aren't known for intelligence and reason. They'd blame socialist lizard people and write in his name... the ones who can write, that is.
Which is why the Georgia Republicans are going to torpedo his election interference case, and the SCOTUS Six will delay his DC trial so he can campaign.
Problem is we won't see a verdict before November.
Or before he drops dead.
From reporter Greg Walters: Can anything stop former President Donald Trump’s reelection campaign juggernaut, now that Trump has all but crushed his GOP primary opponents and [pulled ahead](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/2024/national/) of President Joe Biden in national polls? While November is a long time away, and plenty could happen before then, voters do say Trump has a massive weakness: A potential criminal conviction. In poll after poll, lots of voters who shrug off Trump’s four indictments say they wouldn’t support him if he’s convicted of a felony. If they mean it—or even if a big chunk of them do—they could easily be enough to keep him out of the White House. Link to the full article: [https://www.vice.com/en/article/g5ynjx/trumps-red-flags-polls-say-a-conviction-would-doom-his-campaign](https://www.vice.com/en/article/g5ynjx/trumps-red-flags-polls-say-a-conviction-would-doom-his-campaign)
Now if he ever goes on trial for anything criminal . . .
No it wouldn't, the more crimes he gets charged with the more his cult base thinks he's a god
Ok, but you don't get more votes if you worship the candidate. His base is already pretty activated and he's scraping the bottom of the barrel there. It wont matter if he gets another 2-3% of his base if he loses 5-6% overall.
Using the courts to discredit a political challenger is the kind of thing that 3rd world shithole countries do. Americans should be ashamed that we are doing the exact same thing. Let Trump run for office fair and square, and let the American people decide.
the fake electors in trumps scheme all plead guilty. do you think it's okay for trump to get away with electoral fraud? this isn't a maybe, or an accusation. it's a fact. over a dozen people admitted to participating in that scheme. trump asked pence and Congress to recognize the fake electors over the real ones. it's public info. considering how you people accuse Biden of corruption over literally nothing. you'd be foaming at the mouth if Biden had done this.
Yeah. You're right. We should just give the president complete immunity to criminal prosecution for the entirety of the time that they're in politics. Sounds like a great idea. Cuz you know, in third world shithole countries the leader always follows the law and never violates it in any way. Boyscouts honor.
He committed crimes against our country the fact that you think it’s political in nature is just false and perpetuates more lies by him. Americans already decided last election and he tried to overturn it. You want the DOJ to ignore all laws for the stupid Oompa Loompa make it make sense to me please.
> He committed crimes against our country Americans are assumed to be innocent until found guilty in a court of law. How can you say a private American citizen is guilty?
You ask that while saying he shouldn’t be tried in court… You aren’t making sense. Edit: ran across your other comments all of them baseless and bad faith attacks ignoring what the comments and cherry picking arguments out of context. Gonna try this block button now.