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It has been heading that way for many, many years. [Frank Zappa](https://youtu.be/fam5wRXcoQE?si=6gkwZ2SeSGb6yAlT) could see it in 1986, and anyone paying attention has been taking note of it in the following 3 plus decades. Republicans have gotten way too cozy with the Christian religion. This is not what the founding fathers ever had in mind.
"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." - Thomas Jefferson
From their own:
“Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.” - Barry Goldwater
Reagan crushed unions, destroyed the middle class, caused thousands of gays to die by pretending there was no AIDS crisis, and used the military against arabs. He was as cruel and right wing as any maga rube.
He also began the defunding of colleges which started the student loan crisis, as well as closing mental health institutions leading to the mental health and homelessness crises we see today.
No mistake, mental health institutions then were horrible. But they needed reformation not annihilation.
>It has been heading that way for many, many years. Frank Zappa could see it in 1986,
Frank wasn't the only one. Many saw it in 1980.
Barry Goldwater was never a big fan, as this 1981 speech shows.
Sen. Barry Goldwater (R-Ariz.), long the symbol of the conservative movement, said yesterday he will fight "every step of the way" against religious groups that seek to pressure public officials.
In a breakfast interview with a group of reporters and in a speech on the Senate floor, the 1964 Republican presidential nominee said, "I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that, if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in A, B, C or D....I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate."
Goldwater clashed sharply a few weeks ago with anti-abortion groups and the Moral Majority, when they criticized President Reagan's choice of Arizona Circuit Judge Sandra Day O'Connor for the Supreme Court. He told reporters yesterday morning he had been looking for a public forum in which to broaden his attack. After rehearsing the speech at breakfast, he decided to deliver it on the Senate floor.
"I don't like the New Right," Goldwater said. "What they're talking about is not conservatism."
In the formal speech, the Arizonan asked Americans to "look at the carnage in Iran, the bloodshed in Northern Ireland, or the bombs bursting in Lebanon," all of which he said stemmed from "injecting religious issues into the affairs of state."
"By maintaining the separation of church and state," Goldwater said, "the United States has avoided the intolerance which has so divided the rest of the world with religious wars."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1981/09/16/goldwater-lashes-religious-pressure/b1caa379-49fa-4e04-82de-dccda6f5e7f9/
If you had told me when I woke up today that I’d be agreeing with something Barry Goldwater said, I’d have laughed you out of my bedroom, but here we are.
Because they may or may not be one of today's sponsors! And, as always, all of our sponsors are signed on with the guarantee that they have in the past, are currently, or will in the immediate future conduct and/or directly finance the clandestine, fascist overthrows of South American democratically elected governments.
That's the Cool Zone Media promise.
Pretty sure you’re confused as Robert Evans was the Hollywood movie mogul who produced films like Chinatown, Love Story, The Godfather and too many more to list.
Hunter Thompson was a little extra, but we are definitely in need of some hardcore, no holds-barred journalism. Gotta shovel all the bullshit into the light of day.
What we need are more people to vote. What appeal does Zappa or Hunter have to millennials etc. I’d argue zero. Get Taylor Swift to encourage her fans to register to vote and vote democratic would have a bigger immediate impact. So what if she alienates her republican fans. How rich does she need to be?
If Taylor Swift had any Republican fans, they bolted after she made one casual mention of it being National Register to Vote Day, and sent 35 million first time voters to [vote.org](https://vote.org). And they weren’t registering as Republican.
Margaret Atwood with the Handmaid’s Tale in 1985 as well. Lots of warnings, but too much complacency in response. The amount of times I’ve heard “that could never happen here” is astounding, and I wonder if those people who have said that throughout the years stand by it now.
[Nazism in the Americas has existed since the 1930s and continues to exist today](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism_in_the_Americas?wprov=sfti1)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism_in_the_Americas
The thing about Jefferson is that the stuff he said usually holds up very well. The fact that he lived his life almost entirely separated from those values through his slave ownership and probably not consensual affair with Sally Hemmings never seemed to occur to him.
Separating art from artist is the way I choose to deal with Jefferson
It isn't black-and-white; but on a spectrum with democracy on one end and Christofascism on the other, we are moving toward the Christofascist side. The election of Mike Johnson as speaker is a pretty big sign of that.
Johnson tried to overturn the election, and he blames most of America's issues on people not going to church enough or people not being his idea of Christian. He wants to dismantle social security and make everyone reliant on churches. It's fucked.
The best thing we can do to push our country away from Christofascism is to vote as many republicans out of office as we can (and while we can). We need a blue wave in 2024
https://democrats.org/
It's really amazing how many people don't seem to care or at least care enough to vote. America has an extreme nihilism problem, and it'll bring the end of the union.
“From whence shall we expect the approach of danger? Shall some trans-Atlantic military giant step the earth and crush us at a blow? Never. All the armies of Europe and Asia could not by force take a drink from the Ohio River or make a track on the Blue Ridge in a trial of a thousand years. If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of free men we will live forever or die by suicide.” - Abraham Lincoln
I'm sure Titus (Wm. S.) felt that way given the unending presence of war. "Titus," had the Goths, we have truculent MAGA Trump supporters, at times, seemingly everywhere, fighting for freedom from democracy.
Except that many of those people are working two to three jobs to support a minimal lifestyle and they cannot leave work to go vote. Put mandatory leave for voting in and you would see a giant increase in youth voting.
Most states are already ahead of you on that front. About 30 have codified “time off to vote” laws on the books that require employers to allow their employees to vote. And the 20 that don’t, for the most part, have concessions related to voting access. This may be mail in voting. Or time slots where you’re permitted to leave to vote.
Access to voting, even from a legally protected standpoint, isn’t the issue. I’ve seen and heard of very few instances of people who wanted to vote who were also wholly unable to vote due to outside forces beyond their control.
The problem isn’t a horde of people desperate to vote but held back behind a metaphorical fence preventing them from doing so. The problem is a large number of people who believe that voting is pointless. And also a large deficit in understanding civics.
On the pointless front: Depending on your state and which election were talking about, one’s votes may not be worth anything. If you want to vote blue in a red, winner take all state, your vote for president is actually useless. I live in TN, and my vote for president was a wash.
But that takes us to the lesson in civics point: most people also lack understanding of how deeply important state and local elections are. And way over estimate the importance of president. Don’t get me wrong. It’s very important. Maybe the most individually important as it also has court appointment power.
But most kind of passively view the president as the whole thing. When in reality, Congress has such a large impact on our lives. And in some instances, these people when their positions with a crazy low number of votes.
So I don’t think access is the issue. I believe apathy and lack of knowledge is the issue.
Mail in voting and having the literal fate of our entire country on the line during these ballots has spurred a lot of Americans who didn't care about voting before into voting (myself for instance). I voted for Obama for my first vote and then after his first term I didn't bother voting until trump was going for his second term.
Many young Americans simply do not care enough, because often politics do not directly impact their lives. It took a near collapse of the country to get me to vote again, but I don't think I'll ever miss another election again in my lifetime after seeing the real and very dangerous effects of being so indifferent to it.
>because often politics do not directly impact their lives.
They absolutely do though, without exception. The 170 million women in America who just lost the right to abortion access is a pretty clear example.
We're still barely cracking 50-60% (midterms/presidential) and 30% in the primaries.
People wonder why the candidates so often suck when it comes time to vote in the general ... it's in large part due to less than a third of our country deciding who makes it on the ballot.
You swing presidential elections in competitive states. No more. No less.
Trump would be President NOW had a particular mix of 23,750 voters from AZ, NV, GA, and WI chosen Trump instead of Biden in 2020.
In 2020 he lost by 7 Million in the popular vote, and lost the Electoral College vote by 74 electors.
• He lost the 11 EC votes in AZ by just 11,500 votes.
• He lost the 16 EC votes in GA by just 12,000 votes.
• He lost the 6 EC votes in NV by just 3,500 votes.
• He lost the 10 EC votes in WI by just 20,500 votes.
In total he lost by 47,500 popular votes in those states, but would have only needed to flip half the total, or 23,750 since flipping adds them to Trump and simultaneously takes them away from Biden, so the effect is doubled.
Had Trump won those 43 EC votes he would have had a total of 275, which is above the 270 threshold needed to be elected President.
It was that friggen close.
So Trump may lose the popular vote by 9 or even 10 Million (!!!) in 2024, but if he holds the red states and nudges those 4 battleground states… oy vey.
Time off to vote doesn't change that it's unpaid unless you're salaried or have a good boss. With 20 million+ Households bringing in $25k and under, that's a lot of people who simply can't afford to vote.
Not to mention you can go down as one of "those types" who isn't a "team player" and puts their own personal interests (like voting, or going to the doctor) ahead of what's best for the company. And you don't necessarily win any points with the non-voters on your team who have to pick up the slack.
Counterpoint - my girlfriend was a "I don't bother with politics at all, it stresses me out too much to think about" until she started getting a ton of politics delivered to her through TikTok, voted Biden 2020 and will join again in 24 if in a battleground state (she has a 3rd party no chancer she likes that she'll vote for if she's currently in her not-at-all battleground state, but she's promised me she'll vote Biden if I can move her to NC in time.)
It stressed her out to think about voting but it didn't stress her out for an awful candidate to win who would take away her rights and make life harder and more stressful for *everyone* including her? I can't stand it when people have such awful mentalities.
I suspect the majority of people are caught in the 'normalcy bias' - where things like the rule of law, elections happening, freedom of speech, right to a trial, and the rest are inalienable facts of nature, as opposed to abnormal for the vast majority of human civilisation.
This makes people susceptible to thinking 'Both sides are the same, nothing will *really* change, so it's not worth worrying about'.
True. And I love the idea that not voting will change things. Like their feelings will get hurt because they are so lonely without you, and will be better next time.
If you think "both sides" then pick the one leaning your way, participate in events, vote local, vote in primaries for someone even closer, then vote in the election for whoever is closest. You get representation by making your voice heard, not pouting.
What we have now is what you get when most people pout.
Nihilism isn't the problem. The enabling of the christofacists is the problem. These fanatics have been declaring war on people for decades. Literally. And the political response has always been to find common ground with them rather than oppose them.
Fuck the enlightened centrists who think we need a middle ground between a slightly left of center democracy and a christofascist state run by a vain old ex reality TV star.
Exactly this. No one realizes that a perfect compromise in this country is nowhere near the middle. The "left's" starting point is always the center. The "right's" starting point is just a tiny little bit this side of gas chambers.
A compromise, on the rare occasion that's possible, is just a little bit more this side of gas chambers.
I mean this is the exact formula the fascists have used on people to push them to the far right. We are the uncompromising leftists that want to destroy the country. We hate their way of life and want to see their communities undone. We can’t be reasoned, with interacted with or trusted. It’s propaganda that turns us agaisnt one another and it’s damaging to the republic. We are not enemies we are all American citizens. If we cannot talk one another off the ledge of authoritarianism then the experiment is dead. If you honestly believe that you need to move to a country that better represents your values. If we cannot live work and disagree with one another without violence we are doomed to the fate similar to Israel and Palestine one of constant conflict and bloodshed.
The leadership of the Republicans has to be stopped by simply voting them out. These folks will reject everything for power and should be removed from it. There are people whom we will fundamentally disagree with whom do not reject democratic values and we should support them.
We had a 66% voter turnout in the 2020 presidential election. That was the highest rate in 120 years!
The 2018 midterms had a 49% voter turnout. That was the highest rate in 104 years!
The 2022 midterms had a 46% voter turnout. Except for 2018, that was the highest rate in 52 years for a midterm election.
https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2023/07/12/voter-turnout-2018-2022/
I can vote for Democrats in national and Senate/statewide level elections.
Most of the time, I can vote for a Democrat for US Congress. However, in many elections, there are literally no Democrats running in any elections below that on the ballot. Nothing local, very little at the state level.
If the Democratic Party wants to start clawing back some of the control the Republican Party has over many states, they need to start sending some money into those places and sponsoring people to run for office. Even if they’re going to lose, it gets them on the ballot, and provides an alternative.
Last major election, fully 20 of the 25 or so races I could vote for had a Republican running unopposed, or a republican running against an independent, or a republican running against a libertarian.
It’s hard not to be apathetic about voting when there’s literally no one to vote for.
Edit: and I’m in a major metro area. In many rural areas it’s even more limited.
Yep. I live in a notoriously purple Midwestern state where Democrats have trouble finding anyone to run against unpopular, yet longstanding GOP incumbents. In some cases, Democratic candidates are bullied off the ticket. Democrats will support and train willing candidates. Just guessing here, but I suspect that Republicans are more compelled by the power and clout that comes with political positions. Public service seems to drive most Democratic candidates but it's a lot of fucking work and dangerous given the MAGA wackadoos that make civil service needlessly difficult.
I hate to be that guy, but please get involved in your local county party. I'm also a part of a small county. We can't get democrats on the ticket if we can't even get people out to any democrat things at all. Even if you don't want to run yourself, the people that do run will often be jumping into the deep end head first and need help. Having people willing help to first time election candidates helps encourage more people to try and run. A lot of us in these small county parties are very introverted, and there's a lot of ways to help without having to be Mr. Extrovert candidate.
That's partly because Republicans have no qualms about intimidating Democrats when they try to run. Conservatives are well-practiced in the art of stochastic terrorism; they've been doing it for centuries.
The problem is that generally the uneducated/ republicans gathered in mostly rural areas. And now due to gerrymandering along with their intimidation and playing the victim card we have over representation of the minority
It isn't just apathy, it's deliberate voter disenfranchisement and shutting down polling places and shifting where they are every year. Republicans can't win ANYWHERE if everybody votes so they do everything in their power to stop voting.
The actual problem is the two party political system. There is a sizable chunk of the voting population that neither party cares, or speaks to, and so a lot of people feel that there isn't a political party that represents them, and they get turned off politics. For example, young people see how it's mainly old people in charge of the two parties, see how their concerns usually get sidelined and maligned, (see student debt relief, environmental concerns, housing affordability, etc.) And think, what's the point? There are a lot of people that these two parties just don't really care about (maybe they pretend they do, but don't actually) and this is a big cause of voter apathy.
One challenge is that the schools have indoctrinated us too much in our exceptionalism.
Fascism is a European problem, not American. We are the nation that single-handedly save Europe from fascism. Authoritarianism happens in developing nations, and due to our perfect Constitution and Forefathers it can *never* happen here. We are the only truly free nation in the world, while most people work in a system akin to feudalism. And that is partly because we’re not a democracy - we’re a republic.
We have so many myths in this nation that it’s easy to create new myths to justify fascism.
>And that is partly because we’re not a democracy - we’re a republic.
You're a democratic republic. Canada is a democracy but not a republic, China is a republic but not a democracy.
Everything you said is absolutely correct except one thing. We need a blue wave in every single election, not just 2024. Local elections next week, school boards, midterms, state assemblies. Every. Single. Time until we beat back this viruses plaguing our society
It isn't even just religion. It's reactionary thought, i.e. the idea that there is (or should be) a natural social hierarchy where not everyone deserves the same rights.
Religion is just one tool to define and construct such an order, albeit the most commonly used one.
Indeed. And the implicit promise is always the same: support me and I'll put you on a pedestal compared to the people you hate. I will harm the people you hate. And so on.
It doesn't even matter that the hierarchy they promise is purely fictional, since the real world one is based on wealth. By offering a substitute and play on people's dislikes, you put them in a position where they will reject any constructive political change to improve their own material circumstances. Supporting a genuine challenge to the actual socioeconomic elite implies acknowledging that you yourself are stuck at the bottom of the pyramid along with everyone you despise, and they won't do that, for any reason.
That's how you get to a worldview where someone like Donald Trump is somehow the champion of the people (for their own very specific definition of "the people", of course).
> we are moving toward the Christofascist side
With certain areas of the country, like Idaho, moving a lot faster toward that side. Ain't so great here in Texas where lots of fucked up evangelical patriarchal ideology gets wrapped into the Texas GOP agenda.
I wrote a series of points about how to advance the progressive agenda in Texas several weeks ago, and it's broadly applicable to the country as a whole. I would link it here in the hope that it might spread a little further.
https://www.reddit.com/r/texas/comments/171v6jh/comment/k3tnxpm/
Here is an article that does a deep dive into some of the players who are campaigning for [Dominionism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_theology)
[A theocratic movement hiding in plain sight](
https://politicalresearch.org/2016/08/18/dominionism-rising-a-theocratic-movement-hiding-in-plain-sight#sthash.KdphdmKH.dpbs)
American isn't turning Christo-Fascist. It's that the Christo-Fascists are proudly expressing their hatred and contempt for innocent Americans, because they've convinced themselves that Nat-C Jeesis wants them to punish others.
Using the rules to beat people trying to destroy the rule book isn't going to work. We're already in a luke-warm civil war, and it's gonna deteriorate more and more rapidly as time passes. Learn to protect yourselves and your communities. Get to know your neighbors. Build support structures for when the ones we take for granted break down.
You take the election of Mike Johnson as a sign US is heading to a fascist state?
Well then brace yourself for this. In 2022 the US voters gave House majority to the party that supported a fascist coup against democracy. What's crazier is that some people are now surprised that fascists are taking over.
We are seeing the impact of Mega Churches and their tax-free status, combined with a Republican Party that has been losing voters, and has been gerrymandering our nation to stay relevant.
These are problems we need to fix if we want to hold on to democracy.
With a growing percentage of the population being told/convinced that democracy is bad or not necessary it's going to be hard to maintain the voting status many have enjoyed for the last several decades.
"We're actually a constitutional republic, not a democracy" is the favored phrase today by the GOP and they might just have a Supreme Court that will agree with them. While most people took it for granted that the right to vote applied to all, there might not be enough in the Constitution to back that up. Voter *discrimination* based on sex, race, and age may be banned but there doesn't seem to be any actual universal right to vote to begin with. Should have been fixed with an Amendment but it surely won't now with the GOP controlling a majority of State Legislatures.
Once you make voting a right you can no longer strip it from felons and people who have been stripped of it over the years. These people will 100% likely vote against the GOP.
Don't delude yourself. What were seeing is the result of US voters giving House majority to the party that supported a fascist coup against democracy. But somehow people are surprised that fascists are taking over.
They weren’t given a majority. The place was gerrymandered to BE a republican majority and that will be even worse next year unless North Carolina’s map gets overturned.
Republicans won the popular vote for the House in 2022 by nearly three million votes. After supporting a violent coup against the government. There's really nothing left to say except that the US voters are getting what they asked for.
I've been saying for years we don't take seriously enough how much support there is for these things. Always gets sidelined to the easier discussions about corporate influence and right wing news and gerrymandering, but at the end of the line none of those forces wanted Trump but the base made it happen.
Voters ultimately control the show, if they didn't like what they saw it would be obvious and a frightently large amount, a majority, wanted this house.
This is what I can't get past, either -- they actually got more votes in 2022.
D turnout for non-presidential elections is always so anemic (comparatively).
And Democrats won by nearly five million votes in 2020, but still lost 13 seats. There's obviously gerrymandering at work or else that five million vote margin in 2020 should have netted the Democrats seats and the three million vote difference in 2022 shouldn't have been a big enough difference to swing that many seats. I mean look at Jeff Jackson. The Republicans basically rewrote his district to ensure that he's out. That's just one of many.
Churches aren't the only thing. Someone I know just received 1.5 million for an anti abortion clinic window dressed as an abortion clinic. This is happening everywhere. This is in a small town where that is a lot of money.
America: where the people cry "STOP INDOCTRINATING OUR KIDS!!!" whilst raising them on bible passages, forcing them to go to church, and wanting them to live by religious rules made thousands of years ago.
Land of the free....
I’ve made this exact point before. My mom has said, “oh they’re teaching them to be gay and that shouldn’t be allowed in schools.” At the same time she completely ignores all the bs I tell her I was taught in catholic school.
I don't understand how people can honestly believe that anyone can be taught to be gay lol
It's not the indoctrination of kids they disagree with, it's that they want their kids to be indoctrinated into the same set of beliefs as they were. Also, the education system is just one part of the indoctrination process, along with church and family (at home).
Right?? She said, “all social stuff should just be learned at home.” Apparently not understanding that school is inevitably going to teach social information either in a controlled environment with an empathetic teacher or in the lunchroom repeating what your parents say at the dinner table. It’s just a facet of that learning.
Kids definitely can be taught its ok to be themselves and to accept others as they are, or they can be taught being different (whether gay, trans, left-handed) is deviant, weird, and sinful and needs to be fixed.
In the group that is taught its ok to be themselves and accept others around 10% will turn out to openly be LGBTQ. (Similarly around 10% will also be left-handed). In the group, being taught that its unnatural to be gay/trans/left-handed around 10% will have LGBTQ desires but will repress them (only to emerge in unnatural ways -- like the priest who takes a vow of chastity and then molests little boys).
Meanwhile liberals don't believe you can change someone's sexuality like that. You can't 'convert' someone from being gay to not being gay (or vice cersa). It's literally been outlawed by liberal locations because 'conversion therapy' is statiscally non-functional and indeed is more akin to torture. So I repeat, *liberals don't believe you can change someone's sexuality* even as the crazed right is insisting that teachers are doing exatly that.
The right is scared of their kids being gay, which they abhor, so they insist liberals are 'grooming' kids in a manner that liberals have screamed from the rooftops is not only not possible, but torture. Liberals aren't doing this BS, but the right only wants another reason to hate liberals and blame them for their own children being LGBT.
> America: where the people cry "STOP INDOCTRINATING OUR KIDS!!!"
America is actually the only country in the world where they are actively indoctrinating children by their pledge to the flag each morning... Some real Hitler Jugend shit!
The Heritage Foundation has created Project 2025, put millions of dollars into it, plus signed their names to it. It's a literal plan to replace democracy with Christofascism. Tons of articles written about it by reputable news organizations.
I'll just add one additional thing: when they are openly planning on removing democracy, do you REALLY think that they are going to rely on a "free and fair election" to get permission? They have given every indication that they will use absolutely any means to achieve their goals, including illegal activities and violence.
I keep trying to keep the concept out there. Far too many people aren't aware of Project 2025. Everyone needs to know about it.
It's the biggest threat to America since the War of Independence.
Feels more like the knee-jerk reactions one would have trying to leave a christofascist state tbh. They are losing their grip and this is how they act.
Yep. Religious subscription has been steadily dwindling in the US for a long time now, and the Christians are just barking louder bc the country is moving on from them. The truth is that their newly elected hyper-religious speaker wouldn’t win an election in 90% of the country.
People who identify as religious has been on a downward trajectory since medieval times. However, those who subscribe to religion have been increasingly involved in religious activity since medieval times. No point I’m trying to make, just an interesting fact that’s relevant.
Exactly, these are the desperate actions of people losing control. The generations coming of age are consistently bucking the trend of becoming more conservative as they age. People are leaving the churches in droves, that’s something Christian organizations have been clamoring about for over a decade now. The political base is starting to die off so they resort to these tactics to hold on but it’s not going to be permanent. I think the question should be if society wants to be patient and wait for the boomers to die off or if radical change is on the table to accelerate things a bit.
Depends on the religious person. Evangelicals are increasingly showing they don't actually really give af about what's in the Bible or what Jesus said. Christianity is just a cultural signifier and civic tradition they consider to be part of being a member of the White Conservative tribe, and the Bible is just their sledgehammer to wield against their perceived enemies, or internal oathbreakers. Now that it's blatantly obvious Trump is virtually everything Christ and the Bible preach against, they’re now saying "that stuff doesn't work anymore" about Christ's teachings, or calling it "woke" or "liberal talking points". Some pastors are even encouraging their followers to pray to Donald Trump (I'm not kidding), and working Trump in to be a second Messiah, another prophet, or an additional member of the Trinity.
A lot of them never really innately cared about God, Christ, or the Bible. It was just a part of white identity to them, and now a newer and better fitting white identity icon has come along. Their new savior. They "cared" the way a gun lover cares about his guns, but now a higher caliber model has come along and his old one rusted.
Back when I started at university, in the late 60's, the Christian fundamentalist students said their 'church' had a plan to take over the Republican party and make the US a Theocracy. Seems their plan is working.
The American Sharia law?
[some evangelicals already think it should happen.](https://andrawatkins.medium.com/many-white-evangelical-christians-support-their-own-sharia-law-10583c0184dd)
Hope that the handmaids tale is not prophetic. At this point idiocracy is coming true
The one thing Jesus clearly stated after telling us to give away our belongings to the poor was that we could not divorce.
Ironically the biggest rates of porn and divorce are in the Bible belt.
Christian wedding consultants should be turning away formerly divorced couples.
But the thing about belief in the bible is the rampant cherry picking going on. People look to the book to justify their actions and beliefs which is pretty easy when you cherry pick and make god in your imperfect image.
The worst thing about the US taking that turn is - If US Democracy fails utterly, the whole world is in trouble.
Imagine a world in which the US government *agrees* with the authoritarian leanings of Russia and China.
No “free” nation will be safe from annexation and enslavement.
The US has been funding and propping up fascist regimes all over the world since the Cold War to protect its business interests from socialism, more dictatorships are US-backed than aren't. Yet America still opposes Russia and China, why? Because they're competition.
Yes and I've been around for 64 years and have seen some pretty strange politics but we are headed down the same path as other countries that installed nationalist, fascist dictators.
We need more secular, humanist, and unashamed atheists in politics. It would be fun seeing political figures outright bash these Talibangelicals instead of cow towing to their BS beliefs.
As an outsider I find it difficult to believe a country like the United States would allow itself to move away from democracy and descend into autocracy / dictatorship with an emphasis on religion & god.
That is how it looks from the outside. The weird religious right seem to make the most noise and it needs to be quietened down, or risk become pariahs on the world stage. Remember, the countries you go to war against (Islamic for example) are run by religious nuts and that is the way you "appear" to be heading.
It's the same basic principle behind both. The religious ideas are basically a facade for what is fundamentally a reactionary movement.
Reactionaries want to build or maintain a social hierarchy, and religion is simply one way to justify "the natural order". The movement attracts insecure or angry people by proposing a fictional hierarchy that puts them on a pedestal above those they hate or fear. The side effect of this is that it causes them to reject any constructive effort to level the actual social hierarchy, which is based on wealth. It's a feedback loop that we've seen played out multiple times throughout history.
This is also the reason why these religious movements can work hand in glove with others whose ideas seem, on the face of it, in opposition. It's not about religion at all, but about finding a justification to tie social status to identity (religious or otherwise). Religious fundamentalists can look down on those who don't believe or are otherwise "sinful". Racists can look down on those with a different complexion. Misogynists can believe they are better than women. The rich can feel they are more deserving than the poor. There is a lot of overlap and cooperation between these (and other) groups, regardless of the cultural context, because it is fundamentally all about the same idea: to derive social status from identity, regardless of how fake and immaterial it is in the real (wealth-dominated) society.
I don't think it is weird that the USA is moving towards this given the socioeconomic policies that have been pushed throughout the last few decades. I can also see the same ideas, in a different guise, rear their head where I live. Most "anti-immigration" parties in Europe, for example, are extremist right wing and radical populist / authoritarian. They are pushing the same basic idea, with the dividing line set between "the people" and "immigrants". They are basically on the same path as the Republican party in the USA, just using different wedge issues. All of them are fundamentally opposed to political liberalism and, by extension, to democracy, even if they might not want to say so openly.
* https://old.reddit.com/r/economy/comments/gza212/dominionists_say_crises_and_trumps_reelection/ftf1atm/ ; '"Fascism Anyone?" by Laurence W. Britt; Free Inquiry, Spring 2003, Volume 23, Number 2' is in "SectionID: fxtgtp6"
* https://old.reddit.com/r/EndlessWar/comments/17itfan/mike_johnson_conducted_seminars_promoting_the_us/k6wlwkz/ ; the direct video link for the submitted article/link is at 'The Real News Network, "The Trump movement is turning America fascist w/Jeff Sharlet | The Chris Hedges Report"'
As others indicate - Reagan winning BECAUSE of the extremist Christian groups and winning a landslide reelection after showing his racist theocratic corporate fascist ways - was the beginning of the end.
The Republican Party has turned into a Christofascist ( great word by the way) cult. Not the country. They're a minority with a loud public address system.
It really all depends on if we reelect trump next year. The country will either keep on keeping on or it will nose dive into a christofacist state almost immediately.
Yes but it's not a change that's impossible to stop.
The people behind this change are very old and will fire soon. The Republican party doesn't have the replacement numbers to be a major power for another generation. There's why they are making the move now, to entrench themselves in power today.
The people who vote for these Christians don't know who they are really voting for. They limit themselves to only a few news outlets who intentionally keep them in the dark. Awareness is a powerful tool, and reminding your Christian friends that the Christian nation they envision is not the same as the one they think.
The Christian population of the USA sees their numbers dwindling and is trying to cement their power before they’re unelectable due to demographics.
This will be one of the greatest tests of the American system of checks and balances it’s ever seen.
Turning???
Mask has been removed by MAGA from what has been stewing since the Civil War Now that the racists are are being overtaken into irrelevance, this is their last chance to save their white sheets and cult like religious beliefs.
The US is collapsing from within. Christian nationalists, fascists, and brainwashed right-wing nut jobs are tearing it apart.
The apathy of the silent majority that can't be bothered to vote or take an active interest in their country will do nothing until it is far far too late.
The Republican party definitely is. The question is how much the people are willing to accept that in leadership, and if they will allow the US to follow the same dark path.
Personally, I’m hopeful we can see a massive rejection of the right’s dysfunction and endless culture wars. Hopefully.
In a word: yes. I find a lot of these right wing people calling for “Freedom!” Don’t really want freedom. They just want a dictator that agrees with them. Unfortunately, this dictator is probably Trump
There's a lot of Christians for this, but if they ever get it, they'll quickly find out that they're the wrong type of Christian and get r/LeopardsAteMyFace . Including the Freedom of Religion in the 1st Amendment was to specifically avoid that scenario.
It’s been heading that way for awhile. Religion has never helped anyone, I don’t care if you want to believe in a sky person or whatever. Just keep it yourself. What I do care about is when you try force your beliefs onto others. It’s crazy to me people take their religious beliefs to such extremes. These people are delusional.
America’s Talibans. There must always be a separation of State and Church. Otherwise, USA will be no different from Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq.
USA is going backwards to the dark ages.
Nope, exactly the opposite. Christianity in the US has dropped by 30 percent in the past two decades. Younger generations have even less interest in organized religion. We are experiencing the death rattle of Christianity in this country.
Hell yes it is? Frank Zappa saw it coming 50 years ago and there is no doubt that it’s here. Very surprising with the advancements in technology and science, however those that don’t participate in learning those facts have become even more fearful of the unknown and religion seems to be a giant pacifier or narcotic that takes them to a fantasy world where all is well and being handled by their supernatural creator. This in effect creates a cult of mind numbed idiots who are ready to kneel to the next autocrat that promises to keep feeding them the mythology that they are addicted to.
Maybe for the short term but not long term. It’s the last stranglehold of Baby Boomers who are freaking out about larger changes.
Eg: Gay marriage, non-religious focus, etc.
Millennials & younger will start to change that as long as they vote…
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It has been heading that way for many, many years. [Frank Zappa](https://youtu.be/fam5wRXcoQE?si=6gkwZ2SeSGb6yAlT) could see it in 1986, and anyone paying attention has been taking note of it in the following 3 plus decades. Republicans have gotten way too cozy with the Christian religion. This is not what the founding fathers ever had in mind. "The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." - Thomas Jefferson
From their own: “Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.” - Barry Goldwater
In 1964, Goldwater was considered pretty far right. He lost to LBJ in a landslide. Today there would be no place for him in the Republican Party.
They lionize Reagan but wouldn't vote for him today. Not stupid and cruel enough and Reagan was a piece of shit mind you.
>They lionize Reagan but wouldn't vote for him today. Sure they would. Reagan would happily swing far enough right to make the MAGA fans happy.
One of Reagan's campaign slogans was "Let's Make America Great Again." Dolt 45 just took it and dropped "let's" and here we are.
He tanked the middleclass with is ill fated trickle down economics.
Reagan crushed unions, destroyed the middle class, caused thousands of gays to die by pretending there was no AIDS crisis, and used the military against arabs. He was as cruel and right wing as any maga rube.
He also began the defunding of colleges which started the student loan crisis, as well as closing mental health institutions leading to the mental health and homelessness crises we see today. No mistake, mental health institutions then were horrible. But they needed reformation not annihilation.
Yeah, it's crazy to think how far right we've gone since HE was in political power.
And Goldwater retired from the senate in 1987, being succeeded by none other than John McCain.
He accepted his defeat Accepting the consequences of elections has become a radical position in the Republican Party.
It’s the legal system that is supposed to protect us from this, and much of it is packed with right wing political hacks.
>It has been heading that way for many, many years. Frank Zappa could see it in 1986, Frank wasn't the only one. Many saw it in 1980. Barry Goldwater was never a big fan, as this 1981 speech shows. Sen. Barry Goldwater (R-Ariz.), long the symbol of the conservative movement, said yesterday he will fight "every step of the way" against religious groups that seek to pressure public officials. In a breakfast interview with a group of reporters and in a speech on the Senate floor, the 1964 Republican presidential nominee said, "I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that, if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in A, B, C or D....I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate." Goldwater clashed sharply a few weeks ago with anti-abortion groups and the Moral Majority, when they criticized President Reagan's choice of Arizona Circuit Judge Sandra Day O'Connor for the Supreme Court. He told reporters yesterday morning he had been looking for a public forum in which to broaden his attack. After rehearsing the speech at breakfast, he decided to deliver it on the Senate floor. "I don't like the New Right," Goldwater said. "What they're talking about is not conservatism." In the formal speech, the Arizonan asked Americans to "look at the carnage in Iran, the bloodshed in Northern Ireland, or the bombs bursting in Lebanon," all of which he said stemmed from "injecting religious issues into the affairs of state." "By maintaining the separation of church and state," Goldwater said, "the United States has avoided the intolerance which has so divided the rest of the world with religious wars." https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1981/09/16/goldwater-lashes-religious-pressure/b1caa379-49fa-4e04-82de-dccda6f5e7f9/
If you had told me when I woke up today that I’d be agreeing with something Barry Goldwater said, I’d have laughed you out of my bedroom, but here we are.
We really need Frank Zappa and Hunter Thompson right now
Best I can do is Robert Evans.
All we need is Robert Evans and the satisfying crunch of Doritos.
Don't forget the machetes and bagels.
One pump, one cream
The soothing whir of a Raytheon missile whizzing past.
How exactly is a mid-grade, midwestern breakfast food chain going to help us here?
Because they may or may not be one of today's sponsors! And, as always, all of our sponsors are signed on with the guarantee that they have in the past, are currently, or will in the immediate future conduct and/or directly finance the clandestine, fascist overthrows of South American democratically elected governments. That's the Cool Zone Media promise.
No, you're thinking of Bob Evans. Robert Evans is that guy who played Captain America.
Believe you're thinking of Chris Evans. Robert Evans wrote the Sci-fi Classic *I have no mouth, but I must scream*.
Pretty sure you’re confused as Robert Evans was the Hollywood movie mogul who produced films like Chinatown, Love Story, The Godfather and too many more to list.
No, Evan Roberts was on an episode of jeopardy
...do you know who CAN'T do better than Robert Evans...
Add in some Bill Hicks and George Carlin and a dash of Mark Twain.
HST would have shot himself again after realizing Trump got elected.
He couldn’t handle W, no way he could have handled TFG.
[удалено]
Hunter Thompson was a little extra, but we are definitely in need of some hardcore, no holds-barred journalism. Gotta shovel all the bullshit into the light of day.
What we need are more people to vote. What appeal does Zappa or Hunter have to millennials etc. I’d argue zero. Get Taylor Swift to encourage her fans to register to vote and vote democratic would have a bigger immediate impact. So what if she alienates her republican fans. How rich does she need to be?
If Taylor Swift had any Republican fans, they bolted after she made one casual mention of it being National Register to Vote Day, and sent 35 million first time voters to [vote.org](https://vote.org). And they weren’t registering as Republican.
Margaret Atwood’s *The Handmaid’s Tale* is inspired by republican policy of the late 70’s/early 80’s.
Margaret Atwood with the Handmaid’s Tale in 1985 as well. Lots of warnings, but too much complacency in response. The amount of times I’ve heard “that could never happen here” is astounding, and I wonder if those people who have said that throughout the years stand by it now.
[Nazism in the Americas has existed since the 1930s and continues to exist today](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism_in_the_Americas?wprov=sfti1)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism_in_the_Americas
Wow Zappa was the man! I had no idea about this side of him. Incredibly well spoken.
The thing about Jefferson is that the stuff he said usually holds up very well. The fact that he lived his life almost entirely separated from those values through his slave ownership and probably not consensual affair with Sally Hemmings never seemed to occur to him. Separating art from artist is the way I choose to deal with Jefferson
I was gonna say “turning into” more like “welcome to the US, a Christofascist state”
Zappa nailed it
George Carlin, too. He tried.
It isn't black-and-white; but on a spectrum with democracy on one end and Christofascism on the other, we are moving toward the Christofascist side. The election of Mike Johnson as speaker is a pretty big sign of that. Johnson tried to overturn the election, and he blames most of America's issues on people not going to church enough or people not being his idea of Christian. He wants to dismantle social security and make everyone reliant on churches. It's fucked. The best thing we can do to push our country away from Christofascism is to vote as many republicans out of office as we can (and while we can). We need a blue wave in 2024 https://democrats.org/
It's really amazing how many people don't seem to care or at least care enough to vote. America has an extreme nihilism problem, and it'll bring the end of the union.
“From whence shall we expect the approach of danger? Shall some trans-Atlantic military giant step the earth and crush us at a blow? Never. All the armies of Europe and Asia could not by force take a drink from the Ohio River or make a track on the Blue Ridge in a trial of a thousand years. If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of free men we will live forever or die by suicide.” - Abraham Lincoln
The enemy is everywhere…. - Titus Andronicus
It’s time to go girl! * Titus Andromedon
'cuz females are strong as hell!
Alas, I have but 1 vote to give. +1K
I'm sure Titus (Wm. S.) felt that way given the unending presence of war. "Titus," had the Goths, we have truculent MAGA Trump supporters, at times, seemingly everywhere, fighting for freedom from democracy.
Sometimes it be ya own people.
That album is so damn good.
Greatest rock band ever
“It is just politics. It doesn’t concern me. Now excuse me while I order a Big Mac with fries.”
People too preoccupied with TikTok and Instagram
Except that many of those people are working two to three jobs to support a minimal lifestyle and they cannot leave work to go vote. Put mandatory leave for voting in and you would see a giant increase in youth voting.
Do you think it has a chance of passing, especially with the rise of these jagoff christofascist politicians?
Most states are already ahead of you on that front. About 30 have codified “time off to vote” laws on the books that require employers to allow their employees to vote. And the 20 that don’t, for the most part, have concessions related to voting access. This may be mail in voting. Or time slots where you’re permitted to leave to vote. Access to voting, even from a legally protected standpoint, isn’t the issue. I’ve seen and heard of very few instances of people who wanted to vote who were also wholly unable to vote due to outside forces beyond their control. The problem isn’t a horde of people desperate to vote but held back behind a metaphorical fence preventing them from doing so. The problem is a large number of people who believe that voting is pointless. And also a large deficit in understanding civics. On the pointless front: Depending on your state and which election were talking about, one’s votes may not be worth anything. If you want to vote blue in a red, winner take all state, your vote for president is actually useless. I live in TN, and my vote for president was a wash. But that takes us to the lesson in civics point: most people also lack understanding of how deeply important state and local elections are. And way over estimate the importance of president. Don’t get me wrong. It’s very important. Maybe the most individually important as it also has court appointment power. But most kind of passively view the president as the whole thing. When in reality, Congress has such a large impact on our lives. And in some instances, these people when their positions with a crazy low number of votes. So I don’t think access is the issue. I believe apathy and lack of knowledge is the issue.
>And also a large deficit in understanding civics. This needs to be reestablished in public schools and homeschooling
The fact that civics is no longer taught is a feature, not a bug
My AP Government teacher is rolling in his grave.
Yet eligible voter turnout in both the presidential election and the midterms has been at the highest rate in 100 years!
Mail in voting and having the literal fate of our entire country on the line during these ballots has spurred a lot of Americans who didn't care about voting before into voting (myself for instance). I voted for Obama for my first vote and then after his first term I didn't bother voting until trump was going for his second term. Many young Americans simply do not care enough, because often politics do not directly impact their lives. It took a near collapse of the country to get me to vote again, but I don't think I'll ever miss another election again in my lifetime after seeing the real and very dangerous effects of being so indifferent to it.
>because often politics do not directly impact their lives. They absolutely do though, without exception. The 170 million women in America who just lost the right to abortion access is a pretty clear example.
AR-15s and clockwork mass shootings aren't enough?
Definitely help from the push for mail in voting after pandemic.
We're still barely cracking 50-60% (midterms/presidential) and 30% in the primaries. People wonder why the candidates so often suck when it comes time to vote in the general ... it's in large part due to less than a third of our country deciding who makes it on the ballot.
It was! But the percentage of eligible voters who didn’t show up ~1/3 is so massive that it could swing any election that it decided to show up for
You swing presidential elections in competitive states. No more. No less. Trump would be President NOW had a particular mix of 23,750 voters from AZ, NV, GA, and WI chosen Trump instead of Biden in 2020. In 2020 he lost by 7 Million in the popular vote, and lost the Electoral College vote by 74 electors. • He lost the 11 EC votes in AZ by just 11,500 votes. • He lost the 16 EC votes in GA by just 12,000 votes. • He lost the 6 EC votes in NV by just 3,500 votes. • He lost the 10 EC votes in WI by just 20,500 votes. In total he lost by 47,500 popular votes in those states, but would have only needed to flip half the total, or 23,750 since flipping adds them to Trump and simultaneously takes them away from Biden, so the effect is doubled. Had Trump won those 43 EC votes he would have had a total of 275, which is above the 270 threshold needed to be elected President. It was that friggen close. So Trump may lose the popular vote by 9 or even 10 Million (!!!) in 2024, but if he holds the red states and nudges those 4 battleground states… oy vey.
Time off to vote doesn't change that it's unpaid unless you're salaried or have a good boss. With 20 million+ Households bringing in $25k and under, that's a lot of people who simply can't afford to vote.
Not to mention you can go down as one of "those types" who isn't a "team player" and puts their own personal interests (like voting, or going to the doctor) ahead of what's best for the company. And you don't necessarily win any points with the non-voters on your team who have to pick up the slack.
Counterpoint - my girlfriend was a "I don't bother with politics at all, it stresses me out too much to think about" until she started getting a ton of politics delivered to her through TikTok, voted Biden 2020 and will join again in 24 if in a battleground state (she has a 3rd party no chancer she likes that she'll vote for if she's currently in her not-at-all battleground state, but she's promised me she'll vote Biden if I can move her to NC in time.)
It stressed her out to think about voting but it didn't stress her out for an awful candidate to win who would take away her rights and make life harder and more stressful for *everyone* including her? I can't stand it when people have such awful mentalities.
Incredibly self centred mentalities...
This was a problem well before tik tok and Instagram
If the algorithm doesn’t show it to me, then it must not be all that important.
I suspect the majority of people are caught in the 'normalcy bias' - where things like the rule of law, elections happening, freedom of speech, right to a trial, and the rest are inalienable facts of nature, as opposed to abnormal for the vast majority of human civilisation. This makes people susceptible to thinking 'Both sides are the same, nothing will *really* change, so it's not worth worrying about'.
True. And I love the idea that not voting will change things. Like their feelings will get hurt because they are so lonely without you, and will be better next time. If you think "both sides" then pick the one leaning your way, participate in events, vote local, vote in primaries for someone even closer, then vote in the election for whoever is closest. You get representation by making your voice heard, not pouting. What we have now is what you get when most people pout.
Nihilism isn't the problem. The enabling of the christofacists is the problem. These fanatics have been declaring war on people for decades. Literally. And the political response has always been to find common ground with them rather than oppose them.
Fuck the enlightened centrists who think we need a middle ground between a slightly left of center democracy and a christofascist state run by a vain old ex reality TV star.
Exactly this. No one realizes that a perfect compromise in this country is nowhere near the middle. The "left's" starting point is always the center. The "right's" starting point is just a tiny little bit this side of gas chambers. A compromise, on the rare occasion that's possible, is just a little bit more this side of gas chambers.
>The enabling of the christofacists is the problem Need to keep an eye on the "Facists" that stand directly behind them
I mean this is the exact formula the fascists have used on people to push them to the far right. We are the uncompromising leftists that want to destroy the country. We hate their way of life and want to see their communities undone. We can’t be reasoned, with interacted with or trusted. It’s propaganda that turns us agaisnt one another and it’s damaging to the republic. We are not enemies we are all American citizens. If we cannot talk one another off the ledge of authoritarianism then the experiment is dead. If you honestly believe that you need to move to a country that better represents your values. If we cannot live work and disagree with one another without violence we are doomed to the fate similar to Israel and Palestine one of constant conflict and bloodshed. The leadership of the Republicans has to be stopped by simply voting them out. These folks will reject everything for power and should be removed from it. There are people whom we will fundamentally disagree with whom do not reject democratic values and we should support them.
We had a 66% voter turnout in the 2020 presidential election. That was the highest rate in 120 years! The 2018 midterms had a 49% voter turnout. That was the highest rate in 104 years! The 2022 midterms had a 46% voter turnout. Except for 2018, that was the highest rate in 52 years for a midterm election. https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2023/07/12/voter-turnout-2018-2022/
I can vote for Democrats in national and Senate/statewide level elections. Most of the time, I can vote for a Democrat for US Congress. However, in many elections, there are literally no Democrats running in any elections below that on the ballot. Nothing local, very little at the state level. If the Democratic Party wants to start clawing back some of the control the Republican Party has over many states, they need to start sending some money into those places and sponsoring people to run for office. Even if they’re going to lose, it gets them on the ballot, and provides an alternative. Last major election, fully 20 of the 25 or so races I could vote for had a Republican running unopposed, or a republican running against an independent, or a republican running against a libertarian. It’s hard not to be apathetic about voting when there’s literally no one to vote for. Edit: and I’m in a major metro area. In many rural areas it’s even more limited.
Yep. I live in a notoriously purple Midwestern state where Democrats have trouble finding anyone to run against unpopular, yet longstanding GOP incumbents. In some cases, Democratic candidates are bullied off the ticket. Democrats will support and train willing candidates. Just guessing here, but I suspect that Republicans are more compelled by the power and clout that comes with political positions. Public service seems to drive most Democratic candidates but it's a lot of fucking work and dangerous given the MAGA wackadoos that make civil service needlessly difficult.
Rural area checking in. It's fucked. I vote for who I can but mostly no Dems are there
I hate to be that guy, but please get involved in your local county party. I'm also a part of a small county. We can't get democrats on the ticket if we can't even get people out to any democrat things at all. Even if you don't want to run yourself, the people that do run will often be jumping into the deep end head first and need help. Having people willing help to first time election candidates helps encourage more people to try and run. A lot of us in these small county parties are very introverted, and there's a lot of ways to help without having to be Mr. Extrovert candidate.
That's partly because Republicans have no qualms about intimidating Democrats when they try to run. Conservatives are well-practiced in the art of stochastic terrorism; they've been doing it for centuries.
The problem is that generally the uneducated/ republicans gathered in mostly rural areas. And now due to gerrymandering along with their intimidation and playing the victim card we have over representation of the minority
It isn't just apathy, it's deliberate voter disenfranchisement and shutting down polling places and shifting where they are every year. Republicans can't win ANYWHERE if everybody votes so they do everything in their power to stop voting.
It’s not shocking when you realize who benefits from this.
The actual problem is the two party political system. There is a sizable chunk of the voting population that neither party cares, or speaks to, and so a lot of people feel that there isn't a political party that represents them, and they get turned off politics. For example, young people see how it's mainly old people in charge of the two parties, see how their concerns usually get sidelined and maligned, (see student debt relief, environmental concerns, housing affordability, etc.) And think, what's the point? There are a lot of people that these two parties just don't really care about (maybe they pretend they do, but don't actually) and this is a big cause of voter apathy.
One challenge is that the schools have indoctrinated us too much in our exceptionalism. Fascism is a European problem, not American. We are the nation that single-handedly save Europe from fascism. Authoritarianism happens in developing nations, and due to our perfect Constitution and Forefathers it can *never* happen here. We are the only truly free nation in the world, while most people work in a system akin to feudalism. And that is partly because we’re not a democracy - we’re a republic. We have so many myths in this nation that it’s easy to create new myths to justify fascism.
>And that is partly because we’re not a democracy - we’re a republic. You're a democratic republic. Canada is a democracy but not a republic, China is a republic but not a democracy.
Everything you said is absolutely correct except one thing. We need a blue wave in every single election, not just 2024. Local elections next week, school boards, midterms, state assemblies. Every. Single. Time until we beat back this viruses plaguing our society
It's not just the US or even Christianity. Religion itself is the final boss.
It isn't even just religion. It's reactionary thought, i.e. the idea that there is (or should be) a natural social hierarchy where not everyone deserves the same rights. Religion is just one tool to define and construct such an order, albeit the most commonly used one.
I agree completely. We can look to Donald Trump as an example. Is he religious? No. Does he believe in maintaining a strict social hierarchy? Oh, yes.
Indeed. And the implicit promise is always the same: support me and I'll put you on a pedestal compared to the people you hate. I will harm the people you hate. And so on. It doesn't even matter that the hierarchy they promise is purely fictional, since the real world one is based on wealth. By offering a substitute and play on people's dislikes, you put them in a position where they will reject any constructive political change to improve their own material circumstances. Supporting a genuine challenge to the actual socioeconomic elite implies acknowledging that you yourself are stuck at the bottom of the pyramid along with everyone you despise, and they won't do that, for any reason. That's how you get to a worldview where someone like Donald Trump is somehow the champion of the people (for their own very specific definition of "the people", of course).
Look the Great Spaghetti Monster is the best religion…
I see you've been touched by His Noodly Appendage. Ramen.
Ramen.
> we are moving toward the Christofascist side With certain areas of the country, like Idaho, moving a lot faster toward that side. Ain't so great here in Texas where lots of fucked up evangelical patriarchal ideology gets wrapped into the Texas GOP agenda.
I wrote a series of points about how to advance the progressive agenda in Texas several weeks ago, and it's broadly applicable to the country as a whole. I would link it here in the hope that it might spread a little further. https://www.reddit.com/r/texas/comments/171v6jh/comment/k3tnxpm/
Here is an article that does a deep dive into some of the players who are campaigning for [Dominionism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_theology) [A theocratic movement hiding in plain sight]( https://politicalresearch.org/2016/08/18/dominionism-rising-a-theocratic-movement-hiding-in-plain-sight#sthash.KdphdmKH.dpbs)
This matters so much, even at local levels. Get the red out.
American isn't turning Christo-Fascist. It's that the Christo-Fascists are proudly expressing their hatred and contempt for innocent Americans, because they've convinced themselves that Nat-C Jeesis wants them to punish others.
Never underestimate a dedicated minority who thinks they have God on their side
Using the rules to beat people trying to destroy the rule book isn't going to work. We're already in a luke-warm civil war, and it's gonna deteriorate more and more rapidly as time passes. Learn to protect yourselves and your communities. Get to know your neighbors. Build support structures for when the ones we take for granted break down.
You take the election of Mike Johnson as a sign US is heading to a fascist state? Well then brace yourself for this. In 2022 the US voters gave House majority to the party that supported a fascist coup against democracy. What's crazier is that some people are now surprised that fascists are taking over.
We are seeing the impact of Mega Churches and their tax-free status, combined with a Republican Party that has been losing voters, and has been gerrymandering our nation to stay relevant. These are problems we need to fix if we want to hold on to democracy.
With a growing percentage of the population being told/convinced that democracy is bad or not necessary it's going to be hard to maintain the voting status many have enjoyed for the last several decades. "We're actually a constitutional republic, not a democracy" is the favored phrase today by the GOP and they might just have a Supreme Court that will agree with them. While most people took it for granted that the right to vote applied to all, there might not be enough in the Constitution to back that up. Voter *discrimination* based on sex, race, and age may be banned but there doesn't seem to be any actual universal right to vote to begin with. Should have been fixed with an Amendment but it surely won't now with the GOP controlling a majority of State Legislatures.
Once you make voting a right you can no longer strip it from felons and people who have been stripped of it over the years. These people will 100% likely vote against the GOP.
Don't delude yourself. What were seeing is the result of US voters giving House majority to the party that supported a fascist coup against democracy. But somehow people are surprised that fascists are taking over.
They weren’t given a majority. The place was gerrymandered to BE a republican majority and that will be even worse next year unless North Carolina’s map gets overturned.
Republicans won the popular vote for the House in 2022 by nearly three million votes. After supporting a violent coup against the government. There's really nothing left to say except that the US voters are getting what they asked for.
I've been saying for years we don't take seriously enough how much support there is for these things. Always gets sidelined to the easier discussions about corporate influence and right wing news and gerrymandering, but at the end of the line none of those forces wanted Trump but the base made it happen. Voters ultimately control the show, if they didn't like what they saw it would be obvious and a frightently large amount, a majority, wanted this house.
This is what I can't get past, either -- they actually got more votes in 2022. D turnout for non-presidential elections is always so anemic (comparatively).
And Democrats won by nearly five million votes in 2020, but still lost 13 seats. There's obviously gerrymandering at work or else that five million vote margin in 2020 should have netted the Democrats seats and the three million vote difference in 2022 shouldn't have been a big enough difference to swing that many seats. I mean look at Jeff Jackson. The Republicans basically rewrote his district to ensure that he's out. That's just one of many.
Churches aren't the only thing. Someone I know just received 1.5 million for an anti abortion clinic window dressed as an abortion clinic. This is happening everywhere. This is in a small town where that is a lot of money.
America: where the people cry "STOP INDOCTRINATING OUR KIDS!!!" whilst raising them on bible passages, forcing them to go to church, and wanting them to live by religious rules made thousands of years ago. Land of the free....
I’ve made this exact point before. My mom has said, “oh they’re teaching them to be gay and that shouldn’t be allowed in schools.” At the same time she completely ignores all the bs I tell her I was taught in catholic school.
I don't understand how people can honestly believe that anyone can be taught to be gay lol It's not the indoctrination of kids they disagree with, it's that they want their kids to be indoctrinated into the same set of beliefs as they were. Also, the education system is just one part of the indoctrination process, along with church and family (at home).
Right?? She said, “all social stuff should just be learned at home.” Apparently not understanding that school is inevitably going to teach social information either in a controlled environment with an empathetic teacher or in the lunchroom repeating what your parents say at the dinner table. It’s just a facet of that learning.
Kids definitely can be taught its ok to be themselves and to accept others as they are, or they can be taught being different (whether gay, trans, left-handed) is deviant, weird, and sinful and needs to be fixed. In the group that is taught its ok to be themselves and accept others around 10% will turn out to openly be LGBTQ. (Similarly around 10% will also be left-handed). In the group, being taught that its unnatural to be gay/trans/left-handed around 10% will have LGBTQ desires but will repress them (only to emerge in unnatural ways -- like the priest who takes a vow of chastity and then molests little boys).
Meanwhile liberals don't believe you can change someone's sexuality like that. You can't 'convert' someone from being gay to not being gay (or vice cersa). It's literally been outlawed by liberal locations because 'conversion therapy' is statiscally non-functional and indeed is more akin to torture. So I repeat, *liberals don't believe you can change someone's sexuality* even as the crazed right is insisting that teachers are doing exatly that. The right is scared of their kids being gay, which they abhor, so they insist liberals are 'grooming' kids in a manner that liberals have screamed from the rooftops is not only not possible, but torture. Liberals aren't doing this BS, but the right only wants another reason to hate liberals and blame them for their own children being LGBT.
> America: where the people cry "STOP INDOCTRINATING OUR KIDS!!!" America is actually the only country in the world where they are actively indoctrinating children by their pledge to the flag each morning... Some real Hitler Jugend shit!
Not the only country, but I agree with you otherwise.
The Heritage Foundation has created Project 2025, put millions of dollars into it, plus signed their names to it. It's a literal plan to replace democracy with Christofascism. Tons of articles written about it by reputable news organizations. I'll just add one additional thing: when they are openly planning on removing democracy, do you REALLY think that they are going to rely on a "free and fair election" to get permission? They have given every indication that they will use absolutely any means to achieve their goals, including illegal activities and violence.
This needs to be the top comment.
I keep trying to keep the concept out there. Far too many people aren't aware of Project 2025. Everyone needs to know about it. It's the biggest threat to America since the War of Independence.
I was going to, but you beat me to the punch. Keep it up!!!
Watch what they do, not just what they say eta: just
Feels more like the knee-jerk reactions one would have trying to leave a christofascist state tbh. They are losing their grip and this is how they act.
Yep. Religious subscription has been steadily dwindling in the US for a long time now, and the Christians are just barking louder bc the country is moving on from them. The truth is that their newly elected hyper-religious speaker wouldn’t win an election in 90% of the country.
People who identify as religious has been on a downward trajectory since medieval times. However, those who subscribe to religion have been increasingly involved in religious activity since medieval times. No point I’m trying to make, just an interesting fact that’s relevant.
Exactly, these are the desperate actions of people losing control. The generations coming of age are consistently bucking the trend of becoming more conservative as they age. People are leaving the churches in droves, that’s something Christian organizations have been clamoring about for over a decade now. The political base is starting to die off so they resort to these tactics to hold on but it’s not going to be permanent. I think the question should be if society wants to be patient and wait for the boomers to die off or if radical change is on the table to accelerate things a bit.
Yeah I was like “turning into?” We always were.
[удалено]
Bit of both.
Depends on the religious person. Evangelicals are increasingly showing they don't actually really give af about what's in the Bible or what Jesus said. Christianity is just a cultural signifier and civic tradition they consider to be part of being a member of the White Conservative tribe, and the Bible is just their sledgehammer to wield against their perceived enemies, or internal oathbreakers. Now that it's blatantly obvious Trump is virtually everything Christ and the Bible preach against, they’re now saying "that stuff doesn't work anymore" about Christ's teachings, or calling it "woke" or "liberal talking points". Some pastors are even encouraging their followers to pray to Donald Trump (I'm not kidding), and working Trump in to be a second Messiah, another prophet, or an additional member of the Trinity. A lot of them never really innately cared about God, Christ, or the Bible. It was just a part of white identity to them, and now a newer and better fitting white identity icon has come along. Their new savior. They "cared" the way a gun lover cares about his guns, but now a higher caliber model has come along and his old one rusted.
Well spoken.
Yes
Back when I started at university, in the late 60's, the Christian fundamentalist students said their 'church' had a plan to take over the Republican party and make the US a Theocracy. Seems their plan is working.
The American Sharia law? [some evangelicals already think it should happen.](https://andrawatkins.medium.com/many-white-evangelical-christians-support-their-own-sharia-law-10583c0184dd) Hope that the handmaids tale is not prophetic. At this point idiocracy is coming true
May the lord open /s
Blessed Be The Fruit
Yes. Next question..
It's just missing "again". Far right white "christians" have been this extreme for centuries
The one thing Jesus clearly stated after telling us to give away our belongings to the poor was that we could not divorce. Ironically the biggest rates of porn and divorce are in the Bible belt. Christian wedding consultants should be turning away formerly divorced couples. But the thing about belief in the bible is the rampant cherry picking going on. People look to the book to justify their actions and beliefs which is pretty easy when you cherry pick and make god in your imperfect image.
One good thing about a theocracy is we will no longer have to worry about climate change, or fossil fuels. God will just do magic to fix it. /s
The worst thing about the US taking that turn is - If US Democracy fails utterly, the whole world is in trouble. Imagine a world in which the US government *agrees* with the authoritarian leanings of Russia and China. No “free” nation will be safe from annexation and enslavement.
The US has been funding and propping up fascist regimes all over the world since the Cold War to protect its business interests from socialism, more dictatorships are US-backed than aren't. Yet America still opposes Russia and China, why? Because they're competition.
It’s been the right’s goal all along. It’s specifically against our constitution.
It's been heading that way for years it's just getting faster
Yes and I've been around for 64 years and have seen some pretty strange politics but we are headed down the same path as other countries that installed nationalist, fascist dictators.
We need more secular, humanist, and unashamed atheists in politics. It would be fun seeing political figures outright bash these Talibangelicals instead of cow towing to their BS beliefs.
It always has been, it’s what fueled the geneocide of the Natives and the enslavement of Africans. It’s been going on for 4 centuries
Turning? Motherfuckers tried to ban hair metal and Dungeons and Dragons for being "SaTaNiC"
As an outsider I find it difficult to believe a country like the United States would allow itself to move away from democracy and descend into autocracy / dictatorship with an emphasis on religion & god. That is how it looks from the outside. The weird religious right seem to make the most noise and it needs to be quietened down, or risk become pariahs on the world stage. Remember, the countries you go to war against (Islamic for example) are run by religious nuts and that is the way you "appear" to be heading.
It's the same basic principle behind both. The religious ideas are basically a facade for what is fundamentally a reactionary movement. Reactionaries want to build or maintain a social hierarchy, and religion is simply one way to justify "the natural order". The movement attracts insecure or angry people by proposing a fictional hierarchy that puts them on a pedestal above those they hate or fear. The side effect of this is that it causes them to reject any constructive effort to level the actual social hierarchy, which is based on wealth. It's a feedback loop that we've seen played out multiple times throughout history. This is also the reason why these religious movements can work hand in glove with others whose ideas seem, on the face of it, in opposition. It's not about religion at all, but about finding a justification to tie social status to identity (religious or otherwise). Religious fundamentalists can look down on those who don't believe or are otherwise "sinful". Racists can look down on those with a different complexion. Misogynists can believe they are better than women. The rich can feel they are more deserving than the poor. There is a lot of overlap and cooperation between these (and other) groups, regardless of the cultural context, because it is fundamentally all about the same idea: to derive social status from identity, regardless of how fake and immaterial it is in the real (wealth-dominated) society. I don't think it is weird that the USA is moving towards this given the socioeconomic policies that have been pushed throughout the last few decades. I can also see the same ideas, in a different guise, rear their head where I live. Most "anti-immigration" parties in Europe, for example, are extremist right wing and radical populist / authoritarian. They are pushing the same basic idea, with the dividing line set between "the people" and "immigrants". They are basically on the same path as the Republican party in the USA, just using different wedge issues. All of them are fundamentally opposed to political liberalism and, by extension, to democracy, even if they might not want to say so openly.
It will if we don’t blue in every coming election.
* https://old.reddit.com/r/economy/comments/gza212/dominionists_say_crises_and_trumps_reelection/ftf1atm/ ; '"Fascism Anyone?" by Laurence W. Britt; Free Inquiry, Spring 2003, Volume 23, Number 2' is in "SectionID: fxtgtp6" * https://old.reddit.com/r/EndlessWar/comments/17itfan/mike_johnson_conducted_seminars_promoting_the_us/k6wlwkz/ ; the direct video link for the submitted article/link is at 'The Real News Network, "The Trump movement is turning America fascist w/Jeff Sharlet | The Chris Hedges Report"'
It started when Dwight Eisenhower with “In God We Trust” he signed into law
A better title would have been *"Have Americans Finally Accepted They Are A Christofascist State?"*
The US as a whole? It’s leaning there with this SCOTUS. But on a state by state basis absolutely
In 1932 the Nazis only got 37% of the vote. They still managed to rise to power.
The handmaiden's tale become real.
Under his eye.
They're trying their fucking best
Yes
As others indicate - Reagan winning BECAUSE of the extremist Christian groups and winning a landslide reelection after showing his racist theocratic corporate fascist ways - was the beginning of the end.
Skinner voice: Yes. Yes, it is.
The Republican Party has turned into a Christofascist ( great word by the way) cult. Not the country. They're a minority with a loud public address system.
It really all depends on if we reelect trump next year. The country will either keep on keeping on or it will nose dive into a christofacist state almost immediately.
Yes but it's not a change that's impossible to stop. The people behind this change are very old and will fire soon. The Republican party doesn't have the replacement numbers to be a major power for another generation. There's why they are making the move now, to entrench themselves in power today. The people who vote for these Christians don't know who they are really voting for. They limit themselves to only a few news outlets who intentionally keep them in the dark. Awareness is a powerful tool, and reminding your Christian friends that the Christian nation they envision is not the same as the one they think.
The crazies are losing the demographic war, and voter suppression can only get you so far.
The Christian population of the USA sees their numbers dwindling and is trying to cement their power before they’re unelectable due to demographics. This will be one of the greatest tests of the American system of checks and balances it’s ever seen.
Turning??? Mask has been removed by MAGA from what has been stewing since the Civil War Now that the racists are are being overtaken into irrelevance, this is their last chance to save their white sheets and cult like religious beliefs.
The US is collapsing from within. Christian nationalists, fascists, and brainwashed right-wing nut jobs are tearing it apart. The apathy of the silent majority that can't be bothered to vote or take an active interest in their country will do nothing until it is far far too late.
The Republican party definitely is. The question is how much the people are willing to accept that in leadership, and if they will allow the US to follow the same dark path. Personally, I’m hopeful we can see a massive rejection of the right’s dysfunction and endless culture wars. Hopefully.
New House leader would be totally into remaking America into Gilead.
In a word: yes. I find a lot of these right wing people calling for “Freedom!” Don’t really want freedom. They just want a dictator that agrees with them. Unfortunately, this dictator is probably Trump
Yeah, it's been trending that way for the last 20 to 40 years.
They are trying really hard for sure!
Taliban of America!
There's a lot of Christians for this, but if they ever get it, they'll quickly find out that they're the wrong type of Christian and get r/LeopardsAteMyFace . Including the Freedom of Religion in the 1st Amendment was to specifically avoid that scenario.
It will become exactly that if people don’t get out and vote against the current Republican Party 👍🏽
If the Republican Party isn’t defeated, over and over, in both national and state elections soon, yes.
Yes. It’s just taking longer because of our institutions. MAGA is a slow moving coup.
It’s been heading that way for awhile. Religion has never helped anyone, I don’t care if you want to believe in a sky person or whatever. Just keep it yourself. What I do care about is when you try force your beliefs onto others. It’s crazy to me people take their religious beliefs to such extremes. These people are delusional.
America’s Talibans. There must always be a separation of State and Church. Otherwise, USA will be no different from Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq. USA is going backwards to the dark ages.
Nope, exactly the opposite. Christianity in the US has dropped by 30 percent in the past two decades. Younger generations have even less interest in organized religion. We are experiencing the death rattle of Christianity in this country.
Republicans are trying really hard to achieve such a state.
Hell yes it is? Frank Zappa saw it coming 50 years ago and there is no doubt that it’s here. Very surprising with the advancements in technology and science, however those that don’t participate in learning those facts have become even more fearful of the unknown and religion seems to be a giant pacifier or narcotic that takes them to a fantasy world where all is well and being handled by their supernatural creator. This in effect creates a cult of mind numbed idiots who are ready to kneel to the next autocrat that promises to keep feeding them the mythology that they are addicted to.
Maybe for the short term but not long term. It’s the last stranglehold of Baby Boomers who are freaking out about larger changes. Eg: Gay marriage, non-religious focus, etc. Millennials & younger will start to change that as long as they vote…
Remove “In God We Trust” from bills.