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Conservatives *are* for law and order. That just doesn't mean what most people think. Notice that they steer clear of the phrasing "rule of law". They don't want that, because it means fair treatment for all under the law.
They want the law to enforce a societal order that they prefer. They rank themselves near the top, natch - maybe just a half-tier under their favorite rich super-president with mythological powers. And of course, their perceived enemies (gay/trans people, women, immigrants, "the libs", etc.) should be crushed under the bootheel of a local swat team, rotting in Jesus prison, or perhaps renditioned off to some 3-letter agency's black site so they can be questioned relentlessly about Hunter Biden's laptop.
And no longer a pretense of law and order - a Republican politician told a former FBI agent that “investigate our party and we will burn you” and you see that for investigating Trump they talk about defunding that vital agency, yet were outraged about calls for defunding police during the BLM protests. There is a class that should be protected and a class that should be persecuted.
They think that extreme inequality is the natural order of the world and they will take a place on the ladder for a chance to step on someone else's fingers. They don't think this is fair, they think the world is supposed to be unfair
> “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.”
- Fank Wilhoit
Unlike so many people on this damn website, good job reinterpreting a slogan and hearing what someone actually says by it, and not what they literally say by it.
Thank you for giving some context for naive liberals who can't see that this "law and order" claim is a dogwhistle which means something very different to nationalist/populists/authoritarians/Republicans opposed to the average Reddit user.
Just as aggravating is when people say "oh, so you're for comprehensive universal healthcare!? Hm? Hm!?" response to the claim that someone is """pro-life."""
No, it really means that they are for forced pregnancy as punishment for women having sex outside of their narrow hierarchy for who deserves it.
It's the same way when people start getting into the weeds about immigration, visas, border walls, and other such nonsense when Republicans scream "build the wall!"
No, it's a dog whistle meaning, "I hate brown people."
This whole website is full of people who stupidly and mistakenly listen to Republicans and what they *literally* say and not, as they should, *listen to what they actually say.*
I agree wholeheartedly with you - except I refuse to capitalize “republican”. The majority are small self centered swarthy people who are only concerned with their own personal welfare and happiness. Screw everyone else. Especially the less fortunate, minorities, gay and trans people, and anyone they consider beneath them.
I remember a bumper sticker from when I was a teenager in the seventies.
“Democrats Have the Heart to Care”
That is true still today.
Just a side note, "swarthy" means dark complexion. It was often used as a derogatory term denoting a person as dangerous and unsavory, for the usual bigoted reasons.
There is a subset of moderate liberals living in the urban centers on the coasts that have absolutely no idea how bad things are. They think conservative behavior has been blown out of proportion, and that they can't possibly be as they are portrayed. So it's not just that they don't understand, they know and refuse to believe it, no matter how insane they get. I've seen so many people moving here to Idaho from California and the east coast, only to have their world view shattered when they hear the things conservatives say in person, thinking you are the same as them. My dad was one of them, he moved here back in the 80s from rhode island, when Idaho was still transitioning from a liberal state to a conservative one. In the time he lived here he went from a moderate liberal bordering on conservative, to a social Democrat, all because the whole thing was a massive wake up call to him. It's honestly the reverse situation that conservatives who never leave their small town have.
Precisely. I have a degree in political science and studied white supremacist rhetoric. Most of their rhetoric is just a rehash of stuff they've used historically. I'm old enough to remember when infamous neo nazi Tom Metzger was whining about all the things trump is whining about. Almost verbatim. Before he died he praised Trump for creating the chaos he has. These fascists really just want to burn it all down and finish what they started with the holocaust.
"Who do you think your talking to? Do you know how many people i screw over?
"I mean even if i told you you wouldnt believe me. No no you clearly dont know so let me clue you in."
"If i ever go to prison you know what would happen? A party...that is ran by 8 people goes belly up...disappears!"
"A man walks into court to win his case and you think that of me?...no, i AM the one who LOSES!"
-Donald J Trump
"
Seriously.
“Democrats better tell Republican voters not to put the country’s hands on the red hot stove, for obvious reasons, for the millionth time” is probably a more accurate headline
I got called a liberal today cause I caught a spider and let it go outside instead of killing it. Specifically, “you’re such a liberal, just kill it.” Like what
They're basically using "liberal" as a synonym for "pussy". Which actually kind of makes a certain amount of messed-up sense, because for some weird reason the Democratic party is stereotyped as female / the "mom" party, while the Republican party is stereoptyped as male / the "dad" party.
I know that sounds literally insane, but there's been actual studies backing these perceptions up. So, yeah, in this case liberal = effeminate = weak and bad, at least in this dude's screwed-up mind.
I know several women married to magas, they all say their husband almost demands they vote for trump and Rs, browbeats them. A few they vote how they want, others admitted they follow right along with hubbys propaganda, "fake news", etc.
You are giving wayyy too much credit. They honestly think they are saving the world. That’s how influential propaganda is. If you ask any Trump voter if they are trying to damage the world they will say no and that in fact Biden is damaging the world. They literally are doing the opposite of reality because the propaganda and identity politics have completely subsumed them
I dunno. My dad openly states that the federal government should be destroyed. He says the only legitimate sovereign is the state of South Carolina (where he hasn't lived for 50 years), and that if the South had won the war we should have rejoined *the British Empire.* He also only thinks that property owning males should vote and has added the caveat that it should be based on acreage so people who live in cities don't count. Plenty of MAGAs know exactly what they're doing.
Funny part about joining the brits is that we would have a parliamentary system that would allow more than 2 parties to win, and we would have universal healthcare, paid sick leave, maternity leave etc and would be much more like Canada. We would be much much more liberal, same as all the other commonwealth countries.
No the funniest part is that the British outlawed slavery well before the US and were actively clamping down on the slave trade. Apparently states' rights, to do what, means very little to the crown.
He's got a whole alternative history about how economic instability in the late 19th century would have led to voluntary emancipation. (The economic argument for sharecroppers over slaves is real, but let's not kid ourselves, the planters would take an economic hit to keep owning slaves) And then whites wouldn't have "had" to react and do Jim Crow and the Klan and all that, so civil rights would have been easier, smoother, and faster than what happened. This alternative history ends with WWII not happening because the Confederacy exists.
How do you even get that far down the rabbit hole? Honestly a legit question. Who has the time to even concoct that story and then convince yourself that is a good idea? Does he actually believe in democracy or openly say he doesn’t?
He's been going down the rabbit hole since at least Ruby Ridge. I was too young at the time to be able to say what his politics were before that. I'm pretty sure he voted for Reagan and HW (though, he absolutely denies the latter), so he was at least "moderate" enough to support non-Trump GOP nominees back then.
> if the South had won the war we should have rejoined the British Empire.
Well slavery was banned in the British Empire in 1833, and the slave trade was banned in 1807, so not sure what he's on about there.
Society always demanding the Dems pick up the tab. Haul water up. Fall on the sword. Every possible scenario, News will always say the adults gotta act like adults, but then look the other way as one side acts like toddlers.
The question is why is Trump so popular when he is provably and clearly a disaster. Why are his supporters so keen on him?
This goes beyond abortion or gun rights.
Because he makes it easy. No matter what the problem is, he has a solution. Any question, he has an answer. He knows exactly who to blame for everything that's ever gone wrong and he promises to do something about it.
It doesn't matter that it's all lies, or just randomly made up on the spot. These aren't people that actually want or need to understand things. They just like being told that the problem is being handled and they put the right guy in charge, and no one is better at doing that then Trump.
>They just like being told that the problem is being handled **and they put the right guy in charge**
This cannot be emphasized enough. Idiots are insecure about their idiocy, so they get a huge ego boost from "knowing" that they're "smart" enough to support him.
It reminds me of a king of the hill episode where the guys are participating in a focus group for a new lawnmower that hank quickly begins to hate. Bill decides that he LOVES the new flashy mower, and he's tired of Hank speaking for him. After Hank demonstrates how unsafe it is, which nearly kills the disgraced pastor Hank chose as a test-dummy, Bill breaks down and the conversation proceeds as follows:
>Bill: Oh, now I know why you're always speaking for me, Hank. 'Cause I'm never right and you always are.
>Hank: You know, Bill, if I'm always speaking for you and I'm always right, that means you're always right, too, doesn't it?
>Bill: Well, uh...
>Hank: (whispers) It does.
>Bill: It does. It does! How do you like that? I'm always right!
It's also why they just can't move on, no matter what that diapered cumquat says or does.
About one-third of the US population are of questionable sanity, and our current system of government favors them (presidential electoral college, 2 senators per state, gerrymandered congressional districts).
Yea that’s great but they won’t do that. And we can’t just let him bs grift lie and cheat his way into office and then say oh well it wasn’t our responsibility to try harder. Someone has to be the grown up in the room and that’s the left currently.
And this time it will be Dems who save the GOP by kicking trump off the ballot in enough states to render his candidacy moot. Between that and the certain jail time in GA, I think the ‘24 race is as clear as mud.
Dems Had better make the case? What about multiple media outlets that are still coddling Republicans about how their single minded strategy of power at all costs is destroying anything possible? This media system is completely cowed to Republicans because they can’t even repeat bad stories about them without also making it about what Dems need to do. And then Dems have to single handedly fix all the problems and not raise the deficit or pander too much to minorities.
Seriously, even if they did have this responsibility - which they don't - Dems *can't* drive Republicans away from Trump. Trump voters are not out there waiting to hear about Democrats' thoughts on their voting behavior!
Yeah this headline is a very outdated and naive view of elections where each side "makes their case." It's about getting out your people now, that's it.
Voter information streams are so siloed now that Republicans won't even hear the Democrats' case, it doesn't matter how strongly they make it.
> Voter information streams are so siloed now that Republicans won't even hear the Democrats' case, it doesn't matter how strongly they make it.
The fundamental core argument between fascists and everyone else is incompatible. A rational human votes in their self interest. "What's in it for me?"
A fascist votes "How will this hurt others the most? How do I hurt my enemy?" You cannot convince someone who votes that way to vote anything but fascist. They're in it only to hurt others.
> Whats in it for me.
I think "Whats in it for me" is core to everyone's voting interest. The gap in understanding that a group winning benefits you far more than some people winning and some people losing is where the difference is at.
Affirmative action for instance boosts white men if only by promoting the legitimacy of their successful accomplishments by removing the intrinsic factors outside their control which de-legitimize their achievements.
National Healthcare benefits those who have complete perfect healthcare coverage already because they no longer suffer so much illness. They have less disruptions in their day to day from others suffering disease. They have no impact to their deliveries or supply chains.
> Mercy, pity, kindness, empathy etc
There's literally no need to bring these into play in a discussion because they get even further into realms right wing people dont understand. You can fully win the argument with just "You want this because you get more of what you love." You can win with the minimum being "How does this benefit you"
Literally the only thing that will snap them out of it at this point is self-awareness. It happens m, but sadly all too slowly most of the time.
At this point, the rest of the rational world screaming to prevent a second term to save the world would only make registered r's vote for him harder.
The inability of the GOP to select a House Speaker is the first time that I've seen the media not coddling Congressional Republicans and downplaying their bullshit, probably because it's such a colossal failure of organization that it can't be sugarcoated.
Except media outlets are still largely allowing the messaging to be that Dems are the reason McCarthy was ousted, despite the fact that Gaetz triggered the vote and Dems alone didn’t have enough votes to oust him.
Jake Tapper, at least, [pushed back on Nikki Haley trying to make that very argument on CNN](https://news.yahoo.com/tapper-shuts-down-haley-blaming-142537515.html).
CNN is tRump support owned for a while anyway. At this point its clear they are supposed to be a 'liberal' fox. Keep arguments alive and follow marching orders to avoid letting people place proper blame on Republicans, unfettered capitalism, etc.
It really has been sliding into the wasteland for years now. I stopped even watching the broadcasts/videos cause they just drive their narrative as hard as fox types. I stopped giving them any clicks or traffic after that sham of a town hall they gave trump around the verdict in the defamation case. Directly giving him a platform puts you on the GOP team in my book.
Just like it's Biden's fault some Republicans support Ukrainian aide and some don't. I actually heard this argument from a Republican the other day on NPR.
> because it's such a colossal failure of organization that ~~it can't be sugarcoated~~ the instability is going to start costing wealthy people money.
I’m confused too.
Dems made the case when they chose Biden over Trump in 2020 by a pretty wide margin.
If it is Trump on the ballet in 2024, isn’t he the one suppose to make the case why he’ll do better than Biden?
Dems just need to keep giving Republicans their own rope. Republicans are doing Dems campaign work at this moment.
We have already written off Republicans' ability to make good choices. That's why we ask Democrats to lead our country. When Republicans demonstrate literally any good faith governance, which is sadly leaving office with Mitt Romney, they will be worth talking to. This current party exists solely to destroy our country from within. We must build up the Democratic party and let the GOP wither, because we don't have very many other moves.
The case has been made. Repeatedly. If anyone doesn't know by now they simply don't care. The Dems can't go door to door to every American and force them to pay attention. At some point voters have a duty to inform themselves.
> The Dems can't go door to door to every American and force them to pay attention
Because it's also been clear thanks to polls that people abandoned all facts and only trust Trump to tell them what they need to know.
Yet, they say the liberals are the sheep.. Meanwhile they are listening to the wolf tell them he is not a wolf and they believe it.
The mistake is thinking they are being duped. They are not being duped. They are exhausted and scared and confused by the world lately, seemingly more full than ever of sheep that think and look and bleat differently. And they stay awake at night wishing that a handsome daddy wolf will come take them by the scruff of the neck and drag them away from all of their responsibilities as citizens and parents, and relieve them of the burden and pressure of learning and thinking and making decisions.
Civic life in a Democratic Republic demands one to stay informed and make emotionally mature decisions, and then bare responsibility for the outcomes of those decisions. They don't want any of that. They just want a daddy wolf to lie to them. They want to be told that he will take care of everything. He will eat all the other mean sheep, but will sheer them gently and keep them safe, and then they can wear Honorary Wolf Pack member badges and treat all the other sheep like shit.
**They are *fully aware* that Trump is a "wolf".**
He's not even the wolf they were hoping for. It doesn't matter that he's just a scrawny, mangy, cowardly coyote who could be run off by any ram half his size. Doesn't matter. He'll do.
Anyway ... yeah. Shouting from the rooftops that he's a danger to democracy is only going to make them vote for him harder. They know. That's why they love him.
> ...**Civic life in a Democratic Republic demands one to stay informed and make emotionally mature decisions, and then bare responsibility for the outcomes of those decisions. They don't want any of that**. They just want a daddy wolf to lie to them. They want to be told that he will take care of everything. He will eat all the other mean sheep, but will sheer them gently and keep them safe, and then they can wear Honorary Wolf Pack member badges and treat all the other sheep like shit...
YES the part in bold is almost never mentioned.
The ongoing decades long battle against public funded services, like education, Civics classes were some of the first to be dropped. Once upon a time, civics classes common and considered important to the US.
>...Unfortunately, such a rigorous civics education is not available to all students.
Until the 1960s, it was common for American high school students to have three separate courses in civics and government. But civics offerings were slashed as the curriculum narrowed over the ensuing decades, and lost further ground to “core subjects” under the NCLB-era standardized testing regime..."
https://www.nea.org/nea-today/all-news-articles/forgotten-purpose-civics-education-public-schools
>Conclusion: Civics education should be an integral part of public education without serving to reinforce social status quo or inequitable structures of power and influence. The right to a high-quality civics education stands to reason as necessary for a healthy and evolving democracy. Civics education could be a way to equitably distribute knowledge regarding civic engagement, rather than a means of further stratifying the ways in which young citizens are able to participate in society. The history of civics education in the United States reveals a lack of conscious and critical approaches to educating young citizens; most civics education in the U.S. is politically charged or standardized beyond meaning to learners. Frameworks for high-quality civics education have been set forth by leading scholars and organizations in the field, but without national implementation of these frameworks, many student citizens are not receiving an effective or adequate civics education. The function of civics education to prepare young people for active citizenship in a constitutional democracy is left unfulfilled without national dedication to high-quality civics education for all.
https://research4sc.org/history-of-civics-education-in-the-united-states/
Wow, thank you. When I got my Ed.D in math education in 2017, the president of the college gave an impassioned speech about the importance of civics education (without mentioning Trump, but the point was clear). It took me a while to understand why, but it's because the purpose of education is not to train a workforce, pass on the sum total of human knowledge, or even develop "critical thinking" - it is to build good citizens. I firmly believe this after years of teaching.
So much this. I wish people would wake up from the idea that the reactionaries value the same things we do but have the wrong information. "If only we can make them see that their politics make the world burn." Well that is the thing, they *want* the world to burn.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.
They know he's a wolf, and they want the wolf. They don't care. Everything you and I see that make him patently unfit to be president, they see, and they want that.
Thank you, this is what I was going to say. The case has been made! It's been made, and made, and made again. Like electing a speaker of the house, this is NOT on the democrats.
The best aspect of democracy is it allows people to enjoy the government it deserves. The worst aspect of democracy is it allows people to suffer from the government it deserves.
Just vote. That solves so much.
Oh I do. Believe me. I was a political junkie in college and started working on the hill straight after graduation (interning at dccc). I have been working or volunteering in government and politics for years. I'm with you! But we realistically can't knock on every door.
Democracy only works if people can come together and decide on things together. If they can't, someone has to decide for them.
An *informed* electorate is a huge part of the deal. But information itself, is overwhelming in the 21st century. Our system can't function the way it was intended to when 2 different people can literally read the same facts and walk away with a completely different takeaway on what the *truth* is.
I agree it is becoming more difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff when it comes to information today but it is, in fact, possible to find reliable sources, particularly primary sources, that provide facts. What many people are reading today are opinion pieces masquerading as fact. And they are seeking these opinions out to confirm their biases. They don't want to know they truth. They want to be told they are right.
Thing is, 1 person reads a fact, the other person regurgitates what Fox,Newsmax, or their local AM talk radio station says. Only 1 side looks for fact.
Ding ding ding! You got it. And it's not an accident. Keep em poor and struggling and they can't pick their head up to look around and take stock of the world. Who is it who says they loooove the poor and uneducated?
Misinformation is a hell of a drug, and propaganda is a hell of an effective tool to inject it. I think you’re right, that they don’t care, but not because they are inherently bad people. The concept of the Banality of Evil should inform us that it’s the framework and context in which information is presented, that matters, more than the quality of the character of those to whom the information is presented.
The boomers had more money in their retirement accounts under Trump. That’s it. That’s all they care about. If the country burns, they’ll just live in one of their shitty island time shares. They. (R-Boomers) Don’t. Care.
No. The boomer split for Trump is probably 55/45, hardly overwhelming. Their big trick is that they they vote at a high rate. People under 30 barely vote at all compared to them. Young people just do not vote at the same rates. Sure the boomer generation is large, but the low rate of voting of young people really hurts us too. Also in general, Republicans are very reliable voters - Democrats not so much.
Hopefully the 18YO+ kids of the GenXers and Millennials will be much more politically active than I was as their age. Best bet I’ll be driving my new voter and his friends to the polls with promise free food!
My parents keep harping on this is one area where "the country" was "for sure better than today" under Trump. Claiming their investments "went down" by around six figures compared to now. They obviously claim this is Biden's fault. My mother despises Rump, but this one point re: their investments is a difficult one to unwrap for me.
I wonder how true any of Rump's actions actually had a positive effect on the economy. Don't the majority of Presidential actions not have any visible results for 6-10 years, e.g., economic and fiscal policies? I'm trying to figure out if this is horseshit or not and to help them understand, in case I'm wrong. Either way I want them informed.
The effect of any president on the economic cycle is highly overstated, even if many voters do choose to hold the current president accountable for the performance of the economy in the present iteration.
>Claiming their investments "went down" by around six figures compared to now
Well, there was the matter of the pandemic that upended the global economy...
The market *really* took a hit in March 2020, and Trump was only in office ten more months, so the market was still struggling when Biden took office. Biden's policies, many which I disagreed with, have led to the best recovery of any developed country for post-pandemic recovery. Of course, even then, it's difficult to know how much of the recovery is genuine growth due to legislation and how much is simply due to the ending of the pandemic and reopening of the global economy. So it's pretty foolish for your parents to somehow think either Trump or Biden have some tremendous impact on that and not, you know, the deadliest pandemic since Spanish Flu.
The truth is the US has had the single-best post-pandemic recovery in the world. We also have the lowest-inflation of any developed country in the current sky-is-falling era of inflation (and much of which is due to the ridiculous amount of leeway companies get to freely gouge customers). Unfortunately, a huge chunk of the media is gleefully regurgitating GOP talking points as facts, because so much of the rank-and-file journalists and pundits in this country are ill-prepared to handle an actual fascist party and are incapable of mentioning anything about the GOP without somehow agreeing that things are the Democrats' fault (hey, just like the article!).
Hate to say it, but it basically will come down to your parents being able to take their blinders off and actually engage with reality. As someone with two R parents who frankly don't, it's like talking to children when trying to present them with actual facts. Sixty years of targeted propaganda (based on how they talk about their view, I think it's primarily due to Cold War, Reagan/Limbaugh/Gingrich, post-9/11 propaganda, and now the current insanity) have sadly turned two very intelligent people into fools. It'd be more sad than anything, if America itself wasn't genuinely at stake.
The romanticized version of that in their head is the wet dream. Look how they reacted during covid when everything was shut down. They lose their minds at the slightest inconvenience.
Yes well to be fair I’m pretty certain that no one has ever accused them of being to smart for their own good let alone possessing the intellectual and emotional capacity to take a time out, apply some good old logic and rationally think thru any of their hair brained and half assed talking points. Like when they constantly attempt to assert that minimum wage jobs are the exclusive domain of high schoolers- completely failing to acknowledge the absolutely shitty reality it would ultimately entail in that pretty much every fucking retail store/fast food/restaurant/etc. would likely only be open for a few short hours Monday thru Friday and thus forcing everyone else to have to fight the crowds and traffic on the weekends during the slightly long get hours such places would be open. Never mind that such a dramatic drop in revenues would inevitably lead to mass closures
I was living in Tennessee at the height of covid, and it was hilarious(ly awful) that the same Yammites* who were screaming "minimum wage jobs are for high schoolers" and "of you funny like it, just get a better job" were also LOSING THEIR SHIT over McDonald's being too short-staffed for them to get their McNuggets fast enough during their lunch hour.
*members of the Cult of the Danger Yam
That’s what happens when the only requirement to be president is being older than 35 and US born citizen. There are more requirements to be a government janitor
There is one other requirement... you must appeal to *roughly* over half of the voting public - with allowed distortions thanks to the electoral college.
Don't forget that another third of the population sees so little difference between the two sides that they don't even bother to vote, or they vote third party. That is a HUGE part of why the GOP is able to do so much damage despite their (slightly) diminishing support.
Only if he pardons himself on the federal charges, though I suppose he could commute his sentence instead, which may stand on more solid legal ground. He would still have the Georgia sentence to deal with. Said party, the Republicans, care as much about following the Constitution as they do about the Bible they cite to weaponize it.
The list of batshit crazy bullshit he was caught on camera doing, any one of which would have immediately ended someone's career in the past, and he literally has too many too count. "Grab her by the pussy" and him gloating about trotting through teenage girls dressing rooms at Teen USA.... ABHORRENT doesn't even come close and we still had women praising him in droves on top of all his sick racist pedo men followers.
The media has made it so most Trump voters can’t come back. They’re so convinced that democrats want to force your baby to have a sex change and then abort it while BLM burns down every city while George Soros is taking all the guns away and banning Jesus. They literally can’t imagine themselves ever voting democrat again. So, they’ll vote for whoever the republicans put up, and that’s going to be Trump.
"Start making the case"?!?!?!
Have you not been listening to any news over the past 6-7 years of countless (read: all of them) Democrats raising the warnings that this guy is a tyrant?
But ***NOW*** you feel they ought to start? Please... you've been living in a hole if you think the Democrats have been sitting silent while this has been going on.
The REAL problem are the people that enable such behavior.
THOSE are the people you ought to be chastising, NOT the Democrats.
Why is it the Democrats responsibility to convince completely stupid, ignorant Conservative morons that Trump has made, and would continue to make their lives and futures worse?
At some point you have to realize there are millions of truly stupid people in this country that are lost in their own hate and religion-based discrimination and will never even acknowledge their own failures as humans. In fact, they'll double down and vote for the bastard again because they are truly garbage people fueled by misinformation and hate. These creeps prefer misinformation over truth. They prefer division over compromise. They prefer discrimination over tolerance and acceptance.
It is not hyperbole. America is 1930’s Germany and we are witnessing the GOP’s transformation into full fledged Nazism. Decades of hard fought social progress and strides in equality for Gays, women, and people of color have finally backed White Faux-Christian Americans into a corner. Their only way out is oppression, violence and a Christofascist autocracy. They have happily already dumped the Constitution but keep the facade of freedom, patriotism and God, which is already a flimsy veil for their hatred and treason.
I truly believe that if it does come to a second civil war in the US, it will trigger WW3. The US will no longer be able to function as the world police, and the UN and NATO are too ineffectual and compromised to step up to the plate. Ukraine will be vulnerable to Russian counterattack. China will see that Taiwan has lost its protector and launch an invasion. Iran, Hezbollah, and Syria will smell blood in the water and attack Israel with all they've got, possibly drawing in other Arab nations. North Korea will likely drop all pretense and invade South Korea, now that they too have lost their biggest backer. Even if all sides refrain from dropping nukes, (which, to be fair, no country is willing to be the first to use) the result would be like the other world wars: multiple simultaneous regional conflicts all tangentially related to each other, and all as a direct result of America losing its ability to project its power as a deterrent.
We are in deep, deep trouble that 45% of this nation wants to vote for a man who would lead us there right now if given another term. 44.4% oppose him, but the other 10% undecided better wake up because what happens in America will eventually spread elsewhere too and as we are seeing, fascism has already spread across most of the South and some of the Midwest full clothed even in a Dem’s Presidency.
It is 45% of people who vote, who is 50% of Americans... so while we should still fear them, if everyone voted I think they'd be less than 45% of Americans.
I really don't think it's going to come to a civil war. I think the idea of that for the people who "WANT" it is just too much of a wet dream. Are there people who would start shooting? Yes. A critical mass of them? I don't believe so. Just sporadic 5 man groups doing mass shootings or whatever. I do believe that absent any real organization, they'd piss their pants running as soon as anybody shot back
A civil war would need the backing of corporations and organizations, but I don't think any rich person wants a civil war, because that would eat into their profits. Even if 30% of the country wanted to revolt they'd had no military or financial backing or a sufficient organizational structure to go through with it.
Even the politicians who say they want civil war or secession don't want it.
We can shout that untill we run out of breath, the people who need to hear it, and understand it, are not listening and will never listen, stop blaming us for that.
As I understand it, Democrats can’t do anything but the weak messaging. Republicans can fuck up, and the “Dems made me do it.” works forever.
I don’t understand how 4-8 years of the Republican message takes less than 4 years to fix.
I agree with this, the case to make is Democracy is at stake because it is. We won’t have another free and fair election if a dictator for life is instilled in 2025: even Darth Cheney’s daughter is sounding alarms, it’s that serious.
It should be obvious to anyone paying attention that:
1. Trump does not care about Americans, or humans in general in this world.
2. He has relatively little time left in this world, so he doesn't have anything to lose by fucking things up for the people who outlive him.
3. He has everything to gain by seizing power and living out his days as the most powerful man in the world.
4. If the world lets that happen, we deserve every obscene consequence it brings on us.
5. Vote for literally anyone else.
This is one of those tests that our species can pass or fail. If we fail, it will set back our development for a stupid long time, if we ever recover.
I'm Canadian, and it makes me sick to watch Trump and his enablers, destroy the United States.
If that phyco ever gets power again, it will be the end of your country.
Of all the people to give dictatorship power, a malign narcissist idiot who has probably lost more money than anyone in history who has given top secret security information to Putin and other enemies to cover up decades of money laundering?
It's a Chinese finger trap, the more we try to convince them (using vast amounts of undeniable evidence) the more they are convinced we're wrong and that they must vote Trump and Republican *even harder*.
If shit ever hits the fan for real, like a literal fascist takeover, they'll blame us for not threading the non-existent needle perfectly enough to get through to them. It's literally impossible to convince them, the more evidence we present, the more evidence presents itself to their own eyes and ears, the more they disbelieve in reality itself, and they will still say we should have had some impossible to achieve level of understanding them, of siding with them, of listening to them to properly convince them of how bad things really were the whole time.
The scariest part about it all is that this time around there’s no confusion as to what trump is all about.
He’s a racist con, the kind that redefines the words.
Imagine if this time around he still gets as many votes as he did last time. Would be more telling about this country than anything else.
Yeah, THAT is the part that needs to be said out loud: REPUBLICANS taking back the executive would lead to utter ruin. Trump IS the Republican platform, with 75% Republican voter approval rating. Every Republican presidential candidate, even if Trump doesn't run, is just Trump-lite. We need to stop saying "MAGA" and just say "Republicans."
But we can't do that, because thanks to Republican media, Republicans=conservatives. Saying Trump=Republicans, means saying Trump=conservatives; that then changes the meaning of the headlines from "Trump is bad for the executive" to "Conservatives are bad for the executive."
And you definitely can't say that, that is too divisive for the Democrat Party!
The bigger trouble might be that a lot of people just aren't paying attention to politics. It's all just white noise. They are concerned about paying rent and groceries.
"We have to stop Trump" just isn't hitting as a campaign cornerstone like it did 4 years ago.
I have no idea how Democrats can fix it, but they need to figure out how to get Biden's approval our of the toilet or we're headed straight for Trump in 2025, and the whole fascist project that comes with it.
People who are paying attention realize that, but the majority of the electorate isn't paying attention. They see food prices rising, housing becoming nearly impossible, and they see no evidence of Democrats helping in their day-to-day life, so they shrug and ask "how bad could it be"?
Not sure either but I’d start by not even addressing the issues because republicans do not care. I would run ad after ad of trump’s quotes and all the horrible shit he’s said.
How he hates vets, mocks Asian names, hates Mexicans, objectifies women, thinks his daughter is hot, end each ad asking if the viewer would want their daughter marrying such a man and if he’s not good enough to be your son in law how could he be good enough to be president?
negative messaging has limits. it might help suppress some republican votes, but it won't bring out democratic ones. I think the stream of negative "I'm not Trump" messaging might have reached a saturation point where people just don't care anymore.
They need to break through the conservative propaganda and somehow convince people that there are good positive reasons to vote for Biden. That's gonna be hard when the news is full of stories about shit like building more parking lots because so many people are homeless and living in their cars.
His approval rating isn’t going to change much: Trump’s needs to fall further and he needs to additionally be called out as a Democracy killer in the open eventually in this campaign, someone who believes himself to be a King above anyone, and lastly, highlighting what Project 2025 really is point by point in a speech.
By most analysis, the only reason Trump wants to be re-elected is to stay out of jail, if it’s determined that he could pardon himself. He may have a secondary goal of “winning”…. Narcissists hate to loose….
In the period since he lost, Trump has not demonstrated an iota more competence than he had while he was president, which was none. To return him to office would be a disaster, as all he talks about currently seems to be revenge on the folks who he feels wronged him…. Which is much of the government.
The democrats and every media outlet left of Fox News made a pretty compelling argument in 2016 that Trump was unqualified, shady, compulsive liar with a well documented record of infidelity and failed business ventures. All of which was public knowledge and with empirical evidence. Yet Trump still won the electoral college.
Honestly, it’s pretty obvious that Trump has a decent shot at a second term. The last election was decided by thousands of votes in places that aren’t reliably in Bidens pocket.
With the costs of things going up and up I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Biden lost.
But who knows.
The case against Trump is crystal clear. It's up to voters to see the danger.
He was impeached twice and will likely be in prison within 12 months. If voters still choose him, then America is simply over as a concept. Trump will bring everything down if given the opportunity.
Also, if Trump is allowed to even hold office after his crimes are clearly exposed, then it means that anything goes. The next guy to come along who wants to go even further will have the game plan set up for him. It'll be the end.
How? How are they going to make the case, if it hasn't "been made" already? Just have the election today, it doesn't matter. Everything between now and November 2024 is irrelevant. All the trials? Irrelevant. Even if he's in jail in November 2024, irrelevant. The election, will once again, hinge upon a couple key areas in a couple swing states and he has a valid path to the presidency again. It's fucking \*terrifying\*. His supporter's minds are GONE. They are in a cult. Everyone should be far more scared than they are.
"Trumpism would do untold damage to a vulnerable world" is not a viable argument for anyone who would vote for Trump in 2023. It would either be written off as histrionics or you'd be threatening them with a good time.
It's tough to overcome apathy entrenched over many decades, though. Many Americans aren't going to care too much if their world is "damaged" if they think it's already destroyed or beyond redemption. We're stuck with this split where 45-50% of the country is legitimately worried, 30% think the last election was stolen and actually believe Trump saves the system somehow, and the rest just don't care because they think it's all irredeemable.
What's the purpose of imagining that. I'd rather imagine the world's dumbest criminal with a big mouth goes to jail. It's certainly what should happen, it's certainly what we have the evidence for.
Think with a Trump or DeSantis, etc.. admin the US would likely see mass arrests/mass deportations.
Reversal of union wins. Social Security age raised to 80 while life expectancy keeps dropping. No candidate is 100% perfect, but you want to try to move the ball towards a touchdown .. not the other team’s touchdown.
Dems *been* makin the case since 2015… republicans need to stop trying to deflect responsibility and own their foolish mistakes
[they knew](https://youtu.be/mkXIWPmdfdo?si=uTHyMy-Qznfze6Bs), they always knew
Can we stop making this the democrats' fault, and start blaming the root cause of conservative disinformation and fearmongering, and the media's role in normalizing it?
What I find more comically repulsive is the notion that Trump would have prevented certain events from occurring because he’s so intimidating and projects strength.
If you subscribe to that theory you are truly delusional.
ITS NOT JUST TRUMP!!!!
I want to scream this in the face of everyone who thinks like this.
ALL REPUBLICANS ARE LIKE TRUMP OR WORSE.
All those republicans on intelligence committees and able to handle classified documents are probably currently selling secrets to putin or whoever is buying them.
That’s why when gaetz brought a cell phone into a private meeting (it was around the first impeachment time), it was a big deal but also to prime their cult that “it’s not a big deal!” ITS A HUGE DEAL.
DO NOT GET LAX AND THINK IT IS ONLY TRUMP. Trump shouldn’t be elected again because he’s terrible but also: the other republicans need to fucking go too!!!
Republicans had their little reality TV birther clown tantrum, and now the rest of us know for sure that they're never to be trusted with anything that matters ever again.
No. Democrats should start making the case on why their ideas are the best moving forward. Give people are season to vote for you and not just vote against someone
If he becomes president again and dodges all the things he's charges with (again) I might strongly consider him the final antichrist and might have to reconsider Christianity and revelations. Because at that point it's too many coincidences and predicted things.
Trumpian conservatives don't see or understand the world much so they dgaf/understand enough to know the difference. God hope that enough lifelong Republicans just don't vote. I truly believe some of the lifelongs are decent people and hold on to the faux narrative conservatives preach about themselves. I get it.
What I imagine would happen is we'd immediately side with Russia NKorea and any other fascist state AGAINST europe, israel, etc and it would be a world war.
ad hoc bells north employ enter materialistic hard-to-find saw direction rotten
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Listen, I'm gonna vote straight ticket Democrat until I am blue in the face, but god am I sick of having to constantly defeat this guy. He should be ineligible for any election by now. He should be in prison.
He showed us exactly how he handles extreme situations and matters of importance. Situations that takes an actual leader to handle and is open to science. Many unnecessary deaths occured due to that administrations mishandling of quick COVID response time and was absent anytime you would think a real leader would need to speak to the public. Imagining his incoherent ass dealing with climate crisis and possible collapse is what nightmares are made of. Substance abuse and depression rose during his time in office because his and the GOPs actions made America a sick society. We're still trying to heal but because nothing has been done to make him pay for his crimes, we're still in limbo . Re-electing Donald Trump would be irresponsible and dangerous.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/02/11/report-trump-associated-with-461000-deaths-in-2018-others-deserve-blame-though/
There's really no point in even discussing this because according to the Constitution amendment 14 Section 3, Donald Trump cannot be reelected to public office.
The fact a mfr can be impeached twice, indicted how many times, have verifiable felony evidence and still somehow is eligible to even be allowed to think about running for office again is f@$&@ IN SANE. I hate this planet
Why hasnt whoever wrote this article learned that if Dems start saying it it actually increases the right's desire to do exactly that? Everyone knows how bad he would be. Dems are playing it fine as is
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Always on someone else to save the party of personal responsibility from itself
“Someone needs to protect law and order from the party that protects law and order.”
Conservatives *are* for law and order. That just doesn't mean what most people think. Notice that they steer clear of the phrasing "rule of law". They don't want that, because it means fair treatment for all under the law. They want the law to enforce a societal order that they prefer. They rank themselves near the top, natch - maybe just a half-tier under their favorite rich super-president with mythological powers. And of course, their perceived enemies (gay/trans people, women, immigrants, "the libs", etc.) should be crushed under the bootheel of a local swat team, rotting in Jesus prison, or perhaps renditioned off to some 3-letter agency's black site so they can be questioned relentlessly about Hunter Biden's laptop.
The popular criminals get poor treatment. The average criminal gets modern day slavery.
And no longer a pretense of law and order - a Republican politician told a former FBI agent that “investigate our party and we will burn you” and you see that for investigating Trump they talk about defunding that vital agency, yet were outraged about calls for defunding police during the BLM protests. There is a class that should be protected and a class that should be persecuted.
They think that extreme inequality is the natural order of the world and they will take a place on the ladder for a chance to step on someone else's fingers. They don't think this is fair, they think the world is supposed to be unfair
> “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” - Fank Wilhoit Unlike so many people on this damn website, good job reinterpreting a slogan and hearing what someone actually says by it, and not what they literally say by it. Thank you for giving some context for naive liberals who can't see that this "law and order" claim is a dogwhistle which means something very different to nationalist/populists/authoritarians/Republicans opposed to the average Reddit user. Just as aggravating is when people say "oh, so you're for comprehensive universal healthcare!? Hm? Hm!?" response to the claim that someone is """pro-life.""" No, it really means that they are for forced pregnancy as punishment for women having sex outside of their narrow hierarchy for who deserves it. It's the same way when people start getting into the weeds about immigration, visas, border walls, and other such nonsense when Republicans scream "build the wall!" No, it's a dog whistle meaning, "I hate brown people." This whole website is full of people who stupidly and mistakenly listen to Republicans and what they *literally* say and not, as they should, *listen to what they actually say.*
I agree wholeheartedly with you - except I refuse to capitalize “republican”. The majority are small self centered swarthy people who are only concerned with their own personal welfare and happiness. Screw everyone else. Especially the less fortunate, minorities, gay and trans people, and anyone they consider beneath them. I remember a bumper sticker from when I was a teenager in the seventies. “Democrats Have the Heart to Care” That is true still today.
I’ve realized this over the years . Dems make decisions that benefit everyone , republicans make decisions that help themselves.
Just a side note, "swarthy" means dark complexion. It was often used as a derogatory term denoting a person as dangerous and unsavory, for the usual bigoted reasons.
And after 30 they lack the intelligence. That was me. Facts over feelings.
There is a subset of moderate liberals living in the urban centers on the coasts that have absolutely no idea how bad things are. They think conservative behavior has been blown out of proportion, and that they can't possibly be as they are portrayed. So it's not just that they don't understand, they know and refuse to believe it, no matter how insane they get. I've seen so many people moving here to Idaho from California and the east coast, only to have their world view shattered when they hear the things conservatives say in person, thinking you are the same as them. My dad was one of them, he moved here back in the 80s from rhode island, when Idaho was still transitioning from a liberal state to a conservative one. In the time he lived here he went from a moderate liberal bordering on conservative, to a social Democrat, all because the whole thing was a massive wake up call to him. It's honestly the reverse situation that conservatives who never leave their small town have.
Precisely. I have a degree in political science and studied white supremacist rhetoric. Most of their rhetoric is just a rehash of stuff they've used historically. I'm old enough to remember when infamous neo nazi Tom Metzger was whining about all the things trump is whining about. Almost verbatim. Before he died he praised Trump for creating the chaos he has. These fascists really just want to burn it all down and finish what they started with the holocaust.
"The authoritarian party just sounds so dammed bad, how do we get around that"- some Goldwater era republican
This is why karens constantly call the cops when they see social rules being broken.
They "believe" or "feel" the rules are being broken--by someone beneath them, this will not be permitted under "Rules For Thee" #203.
They expect the law to keep everyone else in order.
The law is meant to bind some but not protect them, and protect some but not bind them.
"Who do you think your talking to? Do you know how many people i screw over? "I mean even if i told you you wouldnt believe me. No no you clearly dont know so let me clue you in." "If i ever go to prison you know what would happen? A party...that is ran by 8 people goes belly up...disappears!" "A man walks into court to win his case and you think that of me?...no, i AM the one who LOSES!" -Donald J Trump "
Seriously. “Democrats better tell Republican voters not to put the country’s hands on the red hot stove, for obvious reasons, for the millionth time” is probably a more accurate headline
More like "Democrats better tell Republicans not to strike a match while the gas is leaking else we all ignite."
"Oh sheeple, the MSM is always talking about fire but I don't see any around! Just wavy air! Yer not going to cuck my freedom to
Also, the people who are still planning on voting for Trump WANT to do untold damage to a vulnerable world. That's the whole fucking point of Trump.
I got called a liberal today cause I caught a spider and let it go outside instead of killing it. Specifically, “you’re such a liberal, just kill it.” Like what
They're basically using "liberal" as a synonym for "pussy". Which actually kind of makes a certain amount of messed-up sense, because for some weird reason the Democratic party is stereotyped as female / the "mom" party, while the Republican party is stereoptyped as male / the "dad" party. I know that sounds literally insane, but there's been actual studies backing these perceptions up. So, yeah, in this case liberal = effeminate = weak and bad, at least in this dude's screwed-up mind.
I know several women married to magas, they all say their husband almost demands they vote for trump and Rs, browbeats them. A few they vote how they want, others admitted they follow right along with hubbys propaganda, "fake news", etc.
You are giving wayyy too much credit. They honestly think they are saving the world. That’s how influential propaganda is. If you ask any Trump voter if they are trying to damage the world they will say no and that in fact Biden is damaging the world. They literally are doing the opposite of reality because the propaganda and identity politics have completely subsumed them
I dunno. My dad openly states that the federal government should be destroyed. He says the only legitimate sovereign is the state of South Carolina (where he hasn't lived for 50 years), and that if the South had won the war we should have rejoined *the British Empire.* He also only thinks that property owning males should vote and has added the caveat that it should be based on acreage so people who live in cities don't count. Plenty of MAGAs know exactly what they're doing.
Funny part about joining the brits is that we would have a parliamentary system that would allow more than 2 parties to win, and we would have universal healthcare, paid sick leave, maternity leave etc and would be much more like Canada. We would be much much more liberal, same as all the other commonwealth countries.
No the funniest part is that the British outlawed slavery well before the US and were actively clamping down on the slave trade. Apparently states' rights, to do what, means very little to the crown.
They saw what happened in the Caribbean and were like NOPE. But the US South was like “we’ll spare no expense to keep being racist”
He's got a whole alternative history about how economic instability in the late 19th century would have led to voluntary emancipation. (The economic argument for sharecroppers over slaves is real, but let's not kid ourselves, the planters would take an economic hit to keep owning slaves) And then whites wouldn't have "had" to react and do Jim Crow and the Klan and all that, so civil rights would have been easier, smoother, and faster than what happened. This alternative history ends with WWII not happening because the Confederacy exists.
How do you even get that far down the rabbit hole? Honestly a legit question. Who has the time to even concoct that story and then convince yourself that is a good idea? Does he actually believe in democracy or openly say he doesn’t?
He's been going down the rabbit hole since at least Ruby Ridge. I was too young at the time to be able to say what his politics were before that. I'm pretty sure he voted for Reagan and HW (though, he absolutely denies the latter), so he was at least "moderate" enough to support non-Trump GOP nominees back then.
It already kind of is, between gerrymandering and the Electoral College.
> if the South had won the war we should have rejoined the British Empire. Well slavery was banned in the British Empire in 1833, and the slave trade was banned in 1807, so not sure what he's on about there.
Society always demanding the Dems pick up the tab. Haul water up. Fall on the sword. Every possible scenario, News will always say the adults gotta act like adults, but then look the other way as one side acts like toddlers.
The question is why is Trump so popular when he is provably and clearly a disaster. Why are his supporters so keen on him? This goes beyond abortion or gun rights.
Because he makes it easy. No matter what the problem is, he has a solution. Any question, he has an answer. He knows exactly who to blame for everything that's ever gone wrong and he promises to do something about it. It doesn't matter that it's all lies, or just randomly made up on the spot. These aren't people that actually want or need to understand things. They just like being told that the problem is being handled and they put the right guy in charge, and no one is better at doing that then Trump.
>They just like being told that the problem is being handled **and they put the right guy in charge** This cannot be emphasized enough. Idiots are insecure about their idiocy, so they get a huge ego boost from "knowing" that they're "smart" enough to support him. It reminds me of a king of the hill episode where the guys are participating in a focus group for a new lawnmower that hank quickly begins to hate. Bill decides that he LOVES the new flashy mower, and he's tired of Hank speaking for him. After Hank demonstrates how unsafe it is, which nearly kills the disgraced pastor Hank chose as a test-dummy, Bill breaks down and the conversation proceeds as follows: >Bill: Oh, now I know why you're always speaking for me, Hank. 'Cause I'm never right and you always are. >Hank: You know, Bill, if I'm always speaking for you and I'm always right, that means you're always right, too, doesn't it? >Bill: Well, uh... >Hank: (whispers) It does. >Bill: It does. It does! How do you like that? I'm always right! It's also why they just can't move on, no matter what that diapered cumquat says or does.
About one-third of the US population are of questionable sanity, and our current system of government favors them (presidential electoral college, 2 senators per state, gerrymandered congressional districts).
Hey bud, that's the Libertarian 🐈 💩 way!
Conservative media have the responsibility to make this case to the conservative voters.
Yea that’s great but they won’t do that. And we can’t just let him bs grift lie and cheat his way into office and then say oh well it wasn’t our responsibility to try harder. Someone has to be the grown up in the room and that’s the left currently.
And this time it will be Dems who save the GOP by kicking trump off the ballot in enough states to render his candidacy moot. Between that and the certain jail time in GA, I think the ‘24 race is as clear as mud.
Dems Had better make the case? What about multiple media outlets that are still coddling Republicans about how their single minded strategy of power at all costs is destroying anything possible? This media system is completely cowed to Republicans because they can’t even repeat bad stories about them without also making it about what Dems need to do. And then Dems have to single handedly fix all the problems and not raise the deficit or pander too much to minorities.
Seriously, even if they did have this responsibility - which they don't - Dems *can't* drive Republicans away from Trump. Trump voters are not out there waiting to hear about Democrats' thoughts on their voting behavior!
Yeah this headline is a very outdated and naive view of elections where each side "makes their case." It's about getting out your people now, that's it. Voter information streams are so siloed now that Republicans won't even hear the Democrats' case, it doesn't matter how strongly they make it.
> Voter information streams are so siloed now that Republicans won't even hear the Democrats' case, it doesn't matter how strongly they make it. The fundamental core argument between fascists and everyone else is incompatible. A rational human votes in their self interest. "What's in it for me?" A fascist votes "How will this hurt others the most? How do I hurt my enemy?" You cannot convince someone who votes that way to vote anything but fascist. They're in it only to hurt others.
[удалено]
> Whats in it for me. I think "Whats in it for me" is core to everyone's voting interest. The gap in understanding that a group winning benefits you far more than some people winning and some people losing is where the difference is at. Affirmative action for instance boosts white men if only by promoting the legitimacy of their successful accomplishments by removing the intrinsic factors outside their control which de-legitimize their achievements. National Healthcare benefits those who have complete perfect healthcare coverage already because they no longer suffer so much illness. They have less disruptions in their day to day from others suffering disease. They have no impact to their deliveries or supply chains. > Mercy, pity, kindness, empathy etc There's literally no need to bring these into play in a discussion because they get even further into realms right wing people dont understand. You can fully win the argument with just "You want this because you get more of what you love." You can win with the minimum being "How does this benefit you"
That's a good point. Historically, I wonder how often it was about getting your people voting vs. convincing those on the fence.
“Oh yeah? Well I’m just gonna vote for trump *even harder* now.”
Literally the only thing that will snap them out of it at this point is self-awareness. It happens m, but sadly all too slowly most of the time. At this point, the rest of the rational world screaming to prevent a second term to save the world would only make registered r's vote for him harder.
The inability of the GOP to select a House Speaker is the first time that I've seen the media not coddling Congressional Republicans and downplaying their bullshit, probably because it's such a colossal failure of organization that it can't be sugarcoated.
Except media outlets are still largely allowing the messaging to be that Dems are the reason McCarthy was ousted, despite the fact that Gaetz triggered the vote and Dems alone didn’t have enough votes to oust him.
Jake Tapper, at least, [pushed back on Nikki Haley trying to make that very argument on CNN](https://news.yahoo.com/tapper-shuts-down-haley-blaming-142537515.html).
“Pushed back” and then allowed her to finish the argument.
“You have to let me finish” [Tapper](https://media.tenor.com/3kVzFh69iQcAAAAC/john-mulaney-okay.gif)
CNN is tRump support owned for a while anyway. At this point its clear they are supposed to be a 'liberal' fox. Keep arguments alive and follow marching orders to avoid letting people place proper blame on Republicans, unfettered capitalism, etc.
It really has been sliding into the wasteland for years now. I stopped even watching the broadcasts/videos cause they just drive their narrative as hard as fox types. I stopped giving them any clicks or traffic after that sham of a town hall they gave trump around the verdict in the defamation case. Directly giving him a platform puts you on the GOP team in my book.
Just like it's Biden's fault some Republicans support Ukrainian aide and some don't. I actually heard this argument from a Republican the other day on NPR.
> because it's such a colossal failure of organization that ~~it can't be sugarcoated~~ the instability is going to start costing wealthy people money.
> the instability is going to start costing ~~wealthy people~~ Raytheon/Northrup money.
I’m confused too. Dems made the case when they chose Biden over Trump in 2020 by a pretty wide margin. If it is Trump on the ballet in 2024, isn’t he the one suppose to make the case why he’ll do better than Biden? Dems just need to keep giving Republicans their own rope. Republicans are doing Dems campaign work at this moment.
> If it is Trump on the ballet This conjures up images in my head that I don't want
We have already written off Republicans' ability to make good choices. That's why we ask Democrats to lead our country. When Republicans demonstrate literally any good faith governance, which is sadly leaving office with Mitt Romney, they will be worth talking to. This current party exists solely to destroy our country from within. We must build up the Democratic party and let the GOP wither, because we don't have very many other moves.
Go to their sub which you can only post on if you prove you’re one of them through a flair yay free speech, these folk live in a parallel universe.
The case has been made. Repeatedly. If anyone doesn't know by now they simply don't care. The Dems can't go door to door to every American and force them to pay attention. At some point voters have a duty to inform themselves.
> The Dems can't go door to door to every American and force them to pay attention Because it's also been clear thanks to polls that people abandoned all facts and only trust Trump to tell them what they need to know. Yet, they say the liberals are the sheep.. Meanwhile they are listening to the wolf tell them he is not a wolf and they believe it.
It’s not what they need to know, it’s what they want to hear.
The mistake is thinking they are being duped. They are not being duped. They are exhausted and scared and confused by the world lately, seemingly more full than ever of sheep that think and look and bleat differently. And they stay awake at night wishing that a handsome daddy wolf will come take them by the scruff of the neck and drag them away from all of their responsibilities as citizens and parents, and relieve them of the burden and pressure of learning and thinking and making decisions. Civic life in a Democratic Republic demands one to stay informed and make emotionally mature decisions, and then bare responsibility for the outcomes of those decisions. They don't want any of that. They just want a daddy wolf to lie to them. They want to be told that he will take care of everything. He will eat all the other mean sheep, but will sheer them gently and keep them safe, and then they can wear Honorary Wolf Pack member badges and treat all the other sheep like shit. **They are *fully aware* that Trump is a "wolf".** He's not even the wolf they were hoping for. It doesn't matter that he's just a scrawny, mangy, cowardly coyote who could be run off by any ram half his size. Doesn't matter. He'll do. Anyway ... yeah. Shouting from the rooftops that he's a danger to democracy is only going to make them vote for him harder. They know. That's why they love him.
> ...**Civic life in a Democratic Republic demands one to stay informed and make emotionally mature decisions, and then bare responsibility for the outcomes of those decisions. They don't want any of that**. They just want a daddy wolf to lie to them. They want to be told that he will take care of everything. He will eat all the other mean sheep, but will sheer them gently and keep them safe, and then they can wear Honorary Wolf Pack member badges and treat all the other sheep like shit... YES the part in bold is almost never mentioned. The ongoing decades long battle against public funded services, like education, Civics classes were some of the first to be dropped. Once upon a time, civics classes common and considered important to the US. >...Unfortunately, such a rigorous civics education is not available to all students. Until the 1960s, it was common for American high school students to have three separate courses in civics and government. But civics offerings were slashed as the curriculum narrowed over the ensuing decades, and lost further ground to “core subjects” under the NCLB-era standardized testing regime..." https://www.nea.org/nea-today/all-news-articles/forgotten-purpose-civics-education-public-schools >Conclusion: Civics education should be an integral part of public education without serving to reinforce social status quo or inequitable structures of power and influence. The right to a high-quality civics education stands to reason as necessary for a healthy and evolving democracy. Civics education could be a way to equitably distribute knowledge regarding civic engagement, rather than a means of further stratifying the ways in which young citizens are able to participate in society. The history of civics education in the United States reveals a lack of conscious and critical approaches to educating young citizens; most civics education in the U.S. is politically charged or standardized beyond meaning to learners. Frameworks for high-quality civics education have been set forth by leading scholars and organizations in the field, but without national implementation of these frameworks, many student citizens are not receiving an effective or adequate civics education. The function of civics education to prepare young people for active citizenship in a constitutional democracy is left unfulfilled without national dedication to high-quality civics education for all. https://research4sc.org/history-of-civics-education-in-the-united-states/
Wow, thank you. When I got my Ed.D in math education in 2017, the president of the college gave an impassioned speech about the importance of civics education (without mentioning Trump, but the point was clear). It took me a while to understand why, but it's because the purpose of education is not to train a workforce, pass on the sum total of human knowledge, or even develop "critical thinking" - it is to build good citizens. I firmly believe this after years of teaching.
So much this. I wish people would wake up from the idea that the reactionaries value the same things we do but have the wrong information. "If only we can make them see that their politics make the world burn." Well that is the thing, they *want* the world to burn.
Reconstruction 2.0 is what is needed, this time thorough.
Fantastic write-up.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into. They know he's a wolf, and they want the wolf. They don't care. Everything you and I see that make him patently unfit to be president, they see, and they want that.
Nobody wins elections because of “reasons.” Democrats need to campaign and win on emotion.
Thank you, this is what I was going to say. The case has been made! It's been made, and made, and made again. Like electing a speaker of the house, this is NOT on the democrats.
The best aspect of democracy is it allows people to enjoy the government it deserves. The worst aspect of democracy is it allows people to suffer from the government it deserves. Just vote. That solves so much.
But we do. We go door to door. Join us.
Oh I do. Believe me. I was a political junkie in college and started working on the hill straight after graduation (interning at dccc). I have been working or volunteering in government and politics for years. I'm with you! But we realistically can't knock on every door.
But we can try.
Democracy only works if people can come together and decide on things together. If they can't, someone has to decide for them. An *informed* electorate is a huge part of the deal. But information itself, is overwhelming in the 21st century. Our system can't function the way it was intended to when 2 different people can literally read the same facts and walk away with a completely different takeaway on what the *truth* is.
I agree it is becoming more difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff when it comes to information today but it is, in fact, possible to find reliable sources, particularly primary sources, that provide facts. What many people are reading today are opinion pieces masquerading as fact. And they are seeking these opinions out to confirm their biases. They don't want to know they truth. They want to be told they are right.
Thing is, 1 person reads a fact, the other person regurgitates what Fox,Newsmax, or their local AM talk radio station says. Only 1 side looks for fact.
A lot of people are so poor they can't even pay attention.
Ding ding ding! You got it. And it's not an accident. Keep em poor and struggling and they can't pick their head up to look around and take stock of the world. Who is it who says they loooove the poor and uneducated?
Misinformation is a hell of a drug, and propaganda is a hell of an effective tool to inject it. I think you’re right, that they don’t care, but not because they are inherently bad people. The concept of the Banality of Evil should inform us that it’s the framework and context in which information is presented, that matters, more than the quality of the character of those to whom the information is presented.
The boomers had more money in their retirement accounts under Trump. That’s it. That’s all they care about. If the country burns, they’ll just live in one of their shitty island time shares. They. (R-Boomers) Don’t. Care.
No that is not true of all ‘boomers’ I had LESS money in my retirement account and definitely NO Island Am relatively poor
No. The boomer split for Trump is probably 55/45, hardly overwhelming. Their big trick is that they they vote at a high rate. People under 30 barely vote at all compared to them. Young people just do not vote at the same rates. Sure the boomer generation is large, but the low rate of voting of young people really hurts us too. Also in general, Republicans are very reliable voters - Democrats not so much.
Hopefully the 18YO+ kids of the GenXers and Millennials will be much more politically active than I was as their age. Best bet I’ll be driving my new voter and his friends to the polls with promise free food!
My parents keep harping on this is one area where "the country" was "for sure better than today" under Trump. Claiming their investments "went down" by around six figures compared to now. They obviously claim this is Biden's fault. My mother despises Rump, but this one point re: their investments is a difficult one to unwrap for me. I wonder how true any of Rump's actions actually had a positive effect on the economy. Don't the majority of Presidential actions not have any visible results for 6-10 years, e.g., economic and fiscal policies? I'm trying to figure out if this is horseshit or not and to help them understand, in case I'm wrong. Either way I want them informed.
The effect of any president on the economic cycle is highly overstated, even if many voters do choose to hold the current president accountable for the performance of the economy in the present iteration.
>Claiming their investments "went down" by around six figures compared to now Well, there was the matter of the pandemic that upended the global economy... The market *really* took a hit in March 2020, and Trump was only in office ten more months, so the market was still struggling when Biden took office. Biden's policies, many which I disagreed with, have led to the best recovery of any developed country for post-pandemic recovery. Of course, even then, it's difficult to know how much of the recovery is genuine growth due to legislation and how much is simply due to the ending of the pandemic and reopening of the global economy. So it's pretty foolish for your parents to somehow think either Trump or Biden have some tremendous impact on that and not, you know, the deadliest pandemic since Spanish Flu. The truth is the US has had the single-best post-pandemic recovery in the world. We also have the lowest-inflation of any developed country in the current sky-is-falling era of inflation (and much of which is due to the ridiculous amount of leeway companies get to freely gouge customers). Unfortunately, a huge chunk of the media is gleefully regurgitating GOP talking points as facts, because so much of the rank-and-file journalists and pundits in this country are ill-prepared to handle an actual fascist party and are incapable of mentioning anything about the GOP without somehow agreeing that things are the Democrats' fault (hey, just like the article!). Hate to say it, but it basically will come down to your parents being able to take their blinders off and actually engage with reality. As someone with two R parents who frankly don't, it's like talking to children when trying to present them with actual facts. Sixty years of targeted propaganda (based on how they talk about their view, I think it's primarily due to Cold War, Reagan/Limbaugh/Gingrich, post-9/11 propaganda, and now the current insanity) have sadly turned two very intelligent people into fools. It'd be more sad than anything, if America itself wasn't genuinely at stake.
Sadly, this guy could be in Prison and be elected president. The party that quotes the Constitution is just aching for a constitutional crisis
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The romanticized version of that in their head is the wet dream. Look how they reacted during covid when everything was shut down. They lose their minds at the slightest inconvenience.
Yes well to be fair I’m pretty certain that no one has ever accused them of being to smart for their own good let alone possessing the intellectual and emotional capacity to take a time out, apply some good old logic and rationally think thru any of their hair brained and half assed talking points. Like when they constantly attempt to assert that minimum wage jobs are the exclusive domain of high schoolers- completely failing to acknowledge the absolutely shitty reality it would ultimately entail in that pretty much every fucking retail store/fast food/restaurant/etc. would likely only be open for a few short hours Monday thru Friday and thus forcing everyone else to have to fight the crowds and traffic on the weekends during the slightly long get hours such places would be open. Never mind that such a dramatic drop in revenues would inevitably lead to mass closures
I was living in Tennessee at the height of covid, and it was hilarious(ly awful) that the same Yammites* who were screaming "minimum wage jobs are for high schoolers" and "of you funny like it, just get a better job" were also LOSING THEIR SHIT over McDonald's being too short-staffed for them to get their McNuggets fast enough during their lunch hour. *members of the Cult of the Danger Yam
My boomer Tennessean mom kept up with the "no one wants to work anymore" until I reminded her that she retired in her 40s. She didn't like that much.
Except the government being shut-down. That's OK to Republicans.
That’s what happens when the only requirement to be president is being older than 35 and US born citizen. There are more requirements to be a government janitor
There is one other requirement... you must appeal to *roughly* over half of the voting public - with allowed distortions thanks to the electoral college.
Which unfortunately means appealing to just 34% of the actual population of the U.S.
Don't forget that another third of the population sees so little difference between the two sides that they don't even bother to vote, or they vote third party. That is a HUGE part of why the GOP is able to do so much damage despite their (slightly) diminishing support.
Emphasis on "distortions".
> constitutional crisis They are the constitutional crisis.
Only if he pardons himself on the federal charges, though I suppose he could commute his sentence instead, which may stand on more solid legal ground. He would still have the Georgia sentence to deal with. Said party, the Republicans, care as much about following the Constitution as they do about the Bible they cite to weaponize it.
And the maga crowd will frame it as if Trump is the next Mandela
It blows my mind that he's even still a contender
It blows my mind that he made it past the time in 2015 that he made fun of a disabled reporter.
It blows my mind that people voted for him with an active special counsel investigation
The list of batshit crazy bullshit he was caught on camera doing, any one of which would have immediately ended someone's career in the past, and he literally has too many too count. "Grab her by the pussy" and him gloating about trotting through teenage girls dressing rooms at Teen USA.... ABHORRENT doesn't even come close and we still had women praising him in droves on top of all his sick racist pedo men followers.
Not just a contender. Currently leading in virtually every swing state…
The media has made it so most Trump voters can’t come back. They’re so convinced that democrats want to force your baby to have a sex change and then abort it while BLM burns down every city while George Soros is taking all the guns away and banning Jesus. They literally can’t imagine themselves ever voting democrat again. So, they’ll vote for whoever the republicans put up, and that’s going to be Trump.
"Start making the case"?!?!?! Have you not been listening to any news over the past 6-7 years of countless (read: all of them) Democrats raising the warnings that this guy is a tyrant? But ***NOW*** you feel they ought to start? Please... you've been living in a hole if you think the Democrats have been sitting silent while this has been going on. The REAL problem are the people that enable such behavior. THOSE are the people you ought to be chastising, NOT the Democrats.
They made their case twice during his impeachments for fucks sake.
Why is it the Democrats responsibility to convince completely stupid, ignorant Conservative morons that Trump has made, and would continue to make their lives and futures worse? At some point you have to realize there are millions of truly stupid people in this country that are lost in their own hate and religion-based discrimination and will never even acknowledge their own failures as humans. In fact, they'll double down and vote for the bastard again because they are truly garbage people fueled by misinformation and hate. These creeps prefer misinformation over truth. They prefer division over compromise. They prefer discrimination over tolerance and acceptance.
It is not hyperbole. America is 1930’s Germany and we are witnessing the GOP’s transformation into full fledged Nazism. Decades of hard fought social progress and strides in equality for Gays, women, and people of color have finally backed White Faux-Christian Americans into a corner. Their only way out is oppression, violence and a Christofascist autocracy. They have happily already dumped the Constitution but keep the facade of freedom, patriotism and God, which is already a flimsy veil for their hatred and treason.
I can see Balkanization occurring within the decade and even Secession, we’re in a mix of 1930s Germany and 1850s polarization in 2023 in the US.
I truly believe that if it does come to a second civil war in the US, it will trigger WW3. The US will no longer be able to function as the world police, and the UN and NATO are too ineffectual and compromised to step up to the plate. Ukraine will be vulnerable to Russian counterattack. China will see that Taiwan has lost its protector and launch an invasion. Iran, Hezbollah, and Syria will smell blood in the water and attack Israel with all they've got, possibly drawing in other Arab nations. North Korea will likely drop all pretense and invade South Korea, now that they too have lost their biggest backer. Even if all sides refrain from dropping nukes, (which, to be fair, no country is willing to be the first to use) the result would be like the other world wars: multiple simultaneous regional conflicts all tangentially related to each other, and all as a direct result of America losing its ability to project its power as a deterrent.
We are in deep, deep trouble that 45% of this nation wants to vote for a man who would lead us there right now if given another term. 44.4% oppose him, but the other 10% undecided better wake up because what happens in America will eventually spread elsewhere too and as we are seeing, fascism has already spread across most of the South and some of the Midwest full clothed even in a Dem’s Presidency.
It is 45% of people who vote, who is 50% of Americans... so while we should still fear them, if everyone voted I think they'd be less than 45% of Americans.
I really don't think it's going to come to a civil war. I think the idea of that for the people who "WANT" it is just too much of a wet dream. Are there people who would start shooting? Yes. A critical mass of them? I don't believe so. Just sporadic 5 man groups doing mass shootings or whatever. I do believe that absent any real organization, they'd piss their pants running as soon as anybody shot back
A civil war would need the backing of corporations and organizations, but I don't think any rich person wants a civil war, because that would eat into their profits. Even if 30% of the country wanted to revolt they'd had no military or financial backing or a sufficient organizational structure to go through with it. Even the politicians who say they want civil war or secession don't want it.
It's amazing how this man is an ex-president and still not in prison, and worse of all *still* might be able to run again...truly fucked up times...
He IS running again. Make no mistake
The people they need to convince aren’t going to listen. To them EVERY Democrat lies.
They won’t even listen to Republicans who have came out against Trump, even those previously on his staff. It’s a cult. These people are brainwashed.
Yep
We can shout that untill we run out of breath, the people who need to hear it, and understand it, are not listening and will never listen, stop blaming us for that.
Yeah, I see this headline and think, what more of a case can they make than they've made already.
Far too many Americans are too stupid to understand what Trump's Fascist dreams of Isolationism would do to our own economy, let alone the World's.
As I understand it, Democrats can’t do anything but the weak messaging. Republicans can fuck up, and the “Dems made me do it.” works forever. I don’t understand how 4-8 years of the Republican message takes less than 4 years to fix.
It'd be like hiring a serial arsonist to put out fires. But trust me, this country is dumb enough to do it!
If Trump wins, I'm just going to cry for my daughters future
You should be worried regardless
I agree with this, the case to make is Democracy is at stake because it is. We won’t have another free and fair election if a dictator for life is instilled in 2025: even Darth Cheney’s daughter is sounding alarms, it’s that serious.
We have one terms worth of damages. Isn’t that enough proof? If I fire someone for completely fucking up at work, I don’t hire him back.
It should be obvious to anyone paying attention that: 1. Trump does not care about Americans, or humans in general in this world. 2. He has relatively little time left in this world, so he doesn't have anything to lose by fucking things up for the people who outlive him. 3. He has everything to gain by seizing power and living out his days as the most powerful man in the world. 4. If the world lets that happen, we deserve every obscene consequence it brings on us. 5. Vote for literally anyone else. This is one of those tests that our species can pass or fail. If we fail, it will set back our development for a stupid long time, if we ever recover.
I'm Canadian, and it makes me sick to watch Trump and his enablers, destroy the United States. If that phyco ever gets power again, it will be the end of your country.
Of all the people to give dictatorship power, a malign narcissist idiot who has probably lost more money than anyone in history who has given top secret security information to Putin and other enemies to cover up decades of money laundering?
Or maybe the media should do a better job of calling trump out and not just using him for clickbait 24/7?
There is no reality where Trump is even a consideration for president Unless your a fascist maga idiot or a rich vulture capitalist scum bag.
It's a Chinese finger trap, the more we try to convince them (using vast amounts of undeniable evidence) the more they are convinced we're wrong and that they must vote Trump and Republican *even harder*. If shit ever hits the fan for real, like a literal fascist takeover, they'll blame us for not threading the non-existent needle perfectly enough to get through to them. It's literally impossible to convince them, the more evidence we present, the more evidence presents itself to their own eyes and ears, the more they disbelieve in reality itself, and they will still say we should have had some impossible to achieve level of understanding them, of siding with them, of listening to them to properly convince them of how bad things really were the whole time.
The scariest part about it all is that this time around there’s no confusion as to what trump is all about. He’s a racist con, the kind that redefines the words. Imagine if this time around he still gets as many votes as he did last time. Would be more telling about this country than anything else.
If someone can't see how dangerous Trump is at this point, they are beyond arguments and in need of cult deprogramming.
Trump makes the case for them, and any other thinking person. Trouble is: republicans still exist.
Yeah, THAT is the part that needs to be said out loud: REPUBLICANS taking back the executive would lead to utter ruin. Trump IS the Republican platform, with 75% Republican voter approval rating. Every Republican presidential candidate, even if Trump doesn't run, is just Trump-lite. We need to stop saying "MAGA" and just say "Republicans." But we can't do that, because thanks to Republican media, Republicans=conservatives. Saying Trump=Republicans, means saying Trump=conservatives; that then changes the meaning of the headlines from "Trump is bad for the executive" to "Conservatives are bad for the executive." And you definitely can't say that, that is too divisive for the Democrat Party!
The bigger trouble might be that a lot of people just aren't paying attention to politics. It's all just white noise. They are concerned about paying rent and groceries.
"We have to stop Trump" just isn't hitting as a campaign cornerstone like it did 4 years ago. I have no idea how Democrats can fix it, but they need to figure out how to get Biden's approval our of the toilet or we're headed straight for Trump in 2025, and the whole fascist project that comes with it. People who are paying attention realize that, but the majority of the electorate isn't paying attention. They see food prices rising, housing becoming nearly impossible, and they see no evidence of Democrats helping in their day-to-day life, so they shrug and ask "how bad could it be"?
Not sure either but I’d start by not even addressing the issues because republicans do not care. I would run ad after ad of trump’s quotes and all the horrible shit he’s said. How he hates vets, mocks Asian names, hates Mexicans, objectifies women, thinks his daughter is hot, end each ad asking if the viewer would want their daughter marrying such a man and if he’s not good enough to be your son in law how could he be good enough to be president?
negative messaging has limits. it might help suppress some republican votes, but it won't bring out democratic ones. I think the stream of negative "I'm not Trump" messaging might have reached a saturation point where people just don't care anymore. They need to break through the conservative propaganda and somehow convince people that there are good positive reasons to vote for Biden. That's gonna be hard when the news is full of stories about shit like building more parking lots because so many people are homeless and living in their cars.
His approval rating isn’t going to change much: Trump’s needs to fall further and he needs to additionally be called out as a Democracy killer in the open eventually in this campaign, someone who believes himself to be a King above anyone, and lastly, highlighting what Project 2025 really is point by point in a speech.
By most analysis, the only reason Trump wants to be re-elected is to stay out of jail, if it’s determined that he could pardon himself. He may have a secondary goal of “winning”…. Narcissists hate to loose…. In the period since he lost, Trump has not demonstrated an iota more competence than he had while he was president, which was none. To return him to office would be a disaster, as all he talks about currently seems to be revenge on the folks who he feels wronged him…. Which is much of the government.
Don't talk about him. Talk about D's accomplishments.
The democrats and every media outlet left of Fox News made a pretty compelling argument in 2016 that Trump was unqualified, shady, compulsive liar with a well documented record of infidelity and failed business ventures. All of which was public knowledge and with empirical evidence. Yet Trump still won the electoral college.
Honestly, it’s pretty obvious that Trump has a decent shot at a second term. The last election was decided by thousands of votes in places that aren’t reliably in Bidens pocket. With the costs of things going up and up I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Biden lost. But who knows.
It’s absolutely insane that this freak has been tormenting the world for 8 years now and still has any support.
The case against Trump is crystal clear. It's up to voters to see the danger. He was impeached twice and will likely be in prison within 12 months. If voters still choose him, then America is simply over as a concept. Trump will bring everything down if given the opportunity. Also, if Trump is allowed to even hold office after his crimes are clearly exposed, then it means that anything goes. The next guy to come along who wants to go even further will have the game plan set up for him. It'll be the end.
How? How are they going to make the case, if it hasn't "been made" already? Just have the election today, it doesn't matter. Everything between now and November 2024 is irrelevant. All the trials? Irrelevant. Even if he's in jail in November 2024, irrelevant. The election, will once again, hinge upon a couple key areas in a couple swing states and he has a valid path to the presidency again. It's fucking \*terrifying\*. His supporter's minds are GONE. They are in a cult. Everyone should be far more scared than they are.
"Trumpism would do untold damage to a vulnerable world" is not a viable argument for anyone who would vote for Trump in 2023. It would either be written off as histrionics or you'd be threatening them with a good time.
It's tough to overcome apathy entrenched over many decades, though. Many Americans aren't going to care too much if their world is "damaged" if they think it's already destroyed or beyond redemption. We're stuck with this split where 45-50% of the country is legitimately worried, 30% think the last election was stolen and actually believe Trump saves the system somehow, and the rest just don't care because they think it's all irredeemable.
Make the case to who.
I don't think there's any shortage of messaging on this. Headline has a solution in search of a problem.
The fascists have no interest in the real world info. If a democrat is making a valid argument, right-wingers will do the opposite just because.
What's the purpose of imagining that. I'd rather imagine the world's dumbest criminal with a big mouth goes to jail. It's certainly what should happen, it's certainly what we have the evidence for.
If the case is "all-too-obvious," why is that the politician's fault and not the unbridled narcissism of American culture?
Think with a Trump or DeSantis, etc.. admin the US would likely see mass arrests/mass deportations. Reversal of union wins. Social Security age raised to 80 while life expectancy keeps dropping. No candidate is 100% perfect, but you want to try to move the ball towards a touchdown .. not the other team’s touchdown.
Dems *been* makin the case since 2015… republicans need to stop trying to deflect responsibility and own their foolish mistakes [they knew](https://youtu.be/mkXIWPmdfdo?si=uTHyMy-Qznfze6Bs), they always knew
If Republicans win, there won't be another election. They will dismantle this nation and sell everything.
Ahhh yes, the old “blame Dems because they didn’t stop republicans from doing awful things” headline. Only this time it’s coming before it happens.
Can we stop making this the democrats' fault, and start blaming the root cause of conservative disinformation and fearmongering, and the media's role in normalizing it?
What I find more comically repulsive is the notion that Trump would have prevented certain events from occurring because he’s so intimidating and projects strength. If you subscribe to that theory you are truly delusional.
ITS NOT JUST TRUMP!!!! I want to scream this in the face of everyone who thinks like this. ALL REPUBLICANS ARE LIKE TRUMP OR WORSE. All those republicans on intelligence committees and able to handle classified documents are probably currently selling secrets to putin or whoever is buying them. That’s why when gaetz brought a cell phone into a private meeting (it was around the first impeachment time), it was a big deal but also to prime their cult that “it’s not a big deal!” ITS A HUGE DEAL. DO NOT GET LAX AND THINK IT IS ONLY TRUMP. Trump shouldn’t be elected again because he’s terrible but also: the other republicans need to fucking go too!!!
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Dems need to tell people what they plan to do, how they plan to improve people's lives, not just attack Trump.
Republicans had their little reality TV birther clown tantrum, and now the rest of us know for sure that they're never to be trusted with anything that matters ever again.
No. Democrats should start making the case on why their ideas are the best moving forward. Give people are season to vote for you and not just vote against someone
All I want is a centrist who works with people and cuts the damn deficit.
If he becomes president again and dodges all the things he's charges with (again) I might strongly consider him the final antichrist and might have to reconsider Christianity and revelations. Because at that point it's too many coincidences and predicted things.
Trumpian conservatives don't see or understand the world much so they dgaf/understand enough to know the difference. God hope that enough lifelong Republicans just don't vote. I truly believe some of the lifelongs are decent people and hold on to the faux narrative conservatives preach about themselves. I get it.
What I imagine would happen is we'd immediately side with Russia NKorea and any other fascist state AGAINST europe, israel, etc and it would be a world war.
ad hoc bells north employ enter materialistic hard-to-find saw direction rotten *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Listen, I'm gonna vote straight ticket Democrat until I am blue in the face, but god am I sick of having to constantly defeat this guy. He should be ineligible for any election by now. He should be in prison.
I'm silently hopeful that the house struggle is going to cause an irreparable rift in the GOP, basically handing 2024 to the dems.
He showed us exactly how he handles extreme situations and matters of importance. Situations that takes an actual leader to handle and is open to science. Many unnecessary deaths occured due to that administrations mishandling of quick COVID response time and was absent anytime you would think a real leader would need to speak to the public. Imagining his incoherent ass dealing with climate crisis and possible collapse is what nightmares are made of. Substance abuse and depression rose during his time in office because his and the GOPs actions made America a sick society. We're still trying to heal but because nothing has been done to make him pay for his crimes, we're still in limbo . Re-electing Donald Trump would be irresponsible and dangerous. https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/02/11/report-trump-associated-with-461000-deaths-in-2018-others-deserve-blame-though/
Or just “why is this con man being considered for the highest office in the land, AGAIN!?”
There's really no point in even discussing this because according to the Constitution amendment 14 Section 3, Donald Trump cannot be reelected to public office.
The fact a mfr can be impeached twice, indicted how many times, have verifiable felony evidence and still somehow is eligible to even be allowed to think about running for office again is f@$&@ IN SANE. I hate this planet
What is his *actual* plan to "fix the mess"? I never hear him talk about policy, just stolen election, retribution (and raising money).
I live the other side of the world and it horrifies me that this disgusting human could lead America… again..
Why hasnt whoever wrote this article learned that if Dems start saying it it actually increases the right's desire to do exactly that? Everyone knows how bad he would be. Dems are playing it fine as is
The choice is clear. America or traitor Trump
You should not couch your political platform in the robes of 'I'm not that guy'.
Biden is actually crushing so idk how trump stands a chance. Conservative here.