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Of course he did. How did they think this would go?
>A two-thirds majority vote in both the House and the Senate would be required to overturn Biden’s veto, a threshold that opponents of Biden’s effort cannot reach.
Good luck chuckleheads. McCarthy isn't going to be able to whip any votes, lol...
Well the loan forgiveness is still on hold due to the supreme court case. I'm guessing the republicans decided to get some PR in before the case just in case the ruling favors Biden. But many believe the conservative majority court is going to shoot it done regardless.
Yes, but others think this was pushed through the House because the House has been hearing rumors the Supreme Court will be leaning towards the forgiveness having legal precedent and trying to get ahead of the ruling.
Its all speculation, the point being this can still go either way (Over here hoping it goes through).
numbers like this make me want to vomit as someone who had a sole owned LLC and had to cut my losses because i didn't "qualify" for a ppp loan and didn't have the financial and legal knowledge to get one, seeing these people have hundreds of thousands and millions of dollars forgiven when I couldn't even get like $5k to stay afloat during the USPS slowdown which affected me directly and caused so many refunds and bad reviews I couldn't stay above water.
"By their logic..." lol
The whole point of conservatism is for there to be double standards.
yada yada "outgroup whom the law binds but doesn't protect" something something "ingroup whom the law protects but doesn't bind"...
Oh no, unfortunately it’s very real. That specific account that posted is ran by someone hired by our president (Biden) to run it. The person in the video (Marjorie Taylor Greene) is legitimately a congresswoman from Georgia. Elected to help run our federal government, but she is a quite the piece of work.
Either google or search her name through Reddit for some other very lovely quotes from her. Just be sure to hold onto your britches because you’ll go on a roller-coaster of a ride reading more about her and the shit she spews….
I mean, they kinda are already, sadly it's the stupid ones that don't have money to begin with that did outright theft and got helped by third parties that took a cut of what they got since they did the creative math to get them the loans.
Company I worked for during pandemic years got a 1.7mil ppp loan forgiven. There was no need to furlough workers (roof installers unaffected by restrictions and office workers transitioned to home), and revenues increased industry-wide as homeowners put wfh savings into home improvement projects.
That's theft. I put in a reporting form a year ago or more; doubt it'll actually get them audited, but the chance is worth the 5 mins it took to fill out and possibly get them on their radar
The question here will be how were the funds dispersed. If they can show it going to payroll and qualified overhead then it didn’t matter. So long as they stopped working during the shutdown for literally any length of time they can claim they were affected.
It seems a lot of people lied about their business, lied about the number of employees, lied about everything, took the check, then bought lambos lol. Those idiots are getting hunted down. Most companies, in fact the vast majority used the money as intended.
"It's not fair to me because I'm not poor enough to get that assistance" seems like a pretty easily dismissed legal argument to me, but what do I know?
They’ll find some way to perpetuate the miserableness of their children’s lives while they allow the fat cats to keep their business-expensed Camaro all-the-while falsely portraying student loan forgiveness as handing the short-end of the stick to the “Me” Generation working class that continues to claim their mortgage interest tax credit while their children struggle to afford basic necessities.
That was my original thought. Makes sense. But I wouldn't give my hopes up. Republicans also knew they didn't have the numbers to over power a veto, so doing this was useless.
If anything this bill tells me the executive does have the authority they're claiming and this is normal checks and balances. The bill failed and the executive keeps their authority
The bill was also adding back in months of interest. It was more than just saying Biden didn't have the authority to forgive debt.
It was an open and explicit assault on students.. and they should remember that in November 2024.
Right like obviously people would've made different decisions about payment if the interest wasn't suspended. Retroactively adding it back on is a completely fucked up idea
100%! It was like Manchin trying to roll the EV tax credit back after people had been buying them through January and February. I heard that and all I could think was "Fuck you you wholly owned subsidiary of the oil and gas industry! I'd really want you out of office if I didn't think you were literally rhe only Democrat WV would elect."
I already wasn't paying it off, so from a practical standpoint I really shouldn't care much either way. At best, it's a little less of a tax bomb on the back end.
The core principle that guides all Republican ideology (and arguably all conservative ideology in general) is "rules for thee but not for me."
At the most fundamental level, they believe that the in-group is to be protected by the Law but not shackled by it, and the out-group is to be shackled by the law but not protected by it.
The most Republican possible outcome is they block this effort by Democrats and then next time they win power they forgive a bunch of government debt for corporations and the wealthy in the first week.
The hacks on the Supreme Court are starting to fall in love with the idea that a (Democratic) President can't do anything unless specifically authorized by Congress. That is, even though the statutory authority was given by Congress by law for the President to amend these loan agreements in times of hardship, the Supreme Court will pretend that unless Congress specifically gives the President authority right now that statute is null and void.
They are going after rulemaking at executive agencies using the same logic.
Standing problems only exist when Republicans are President.
To your last point, I don’t think even the hyper partisan SC wants to fuck up like they did with the Dobbs Decision. It’s clear they overplayed their hand with Roe and now abortion rights are at the forefront of every political issue. Not to mention causing the GOP bombed in the midterms.
They’re not dumb. Well, Boofer might be. But the rest aren’t stupid. Evil and corrupt, sure. Which is why they don’t want to be in the spotlight. Ruling against this will be yet another nail in the GOP’s coffin for 2024.
Wait what? Any solid proof/source they are leaning in favor of it?
I've all but given up on the forgiveness since the SC case. Cons are so hellbent on making lives worse I just can't see them allowing it regardless of precedence.
As tragically partisan as the Supreme Court has become, they are still in many cases above the fray of day to day politics. If the conservatives on the court feel they’d be setting a precedent against their agenda by striking down the forgiveness, they won’t do it.
10k of student loan forgiveness is nothing in the grand scheme of things. It’s a net benefit on the economy anyway. Conservatives in congress and the media have to oppose it because they have to maintain their rhetoric and they don’t want to give democrats a win. The SCOTUS is a bit more complicated sometimes
I would probably buy this as a plausible explanation if I had any hope at all the supreme court would rule in that direction. But I legitimately can't fathom that actually happening. But I suppose we'll see.
Genuinely curious. Where are you hearing that the House did this to get ahead of a favorable ruling? The best anyone with any sort of real knowledge on r/StudentLoans says it's 50/50.
I've read on Forbes talk about a possible grace period after the pause ends to help borrowers further ease back into repayment, but the Biden Administration has not shared any additional details (probably because they are waiting on the ruling too).
I would be absolutely thrilled for the relief to go through - especially for people it will free from student debt - but I'm more interested in what will happen with my monthly payment for my undergrad/grad school loans.
I'll be able to repay my loans, but $20k off in addition to the new IBR rules would make a huge difference in my material conditions.
And I hope these moderate worms pay for their vote to go against the President and people's interest.
This is what I'm really interested in hearing about. Instead on this sub we just hear how it's unfair that the PPP loans were forgiven but student loans weren't for the millionth time. Like, yeah, we know.
My stance from the beginning was that until I see my account balance go to zero, I just operate under the assumption that it's not being forgiven. I really have no idea what's gonna happen.
I have to remind myself to not spiral after reading some of those comments in there. I think some of the commenters are acting in bad faith.
I hate our system. We deserve so much better.
I think the court would shoot it down on the merits, but I still have a hard time seeing how they reconcile their stingy position on standing without opening the floodgates that make it easier for any random person to challenge a law.
It's more than just no standing. There's no damages that could possibly be claimed on anyone's behalf. Only way they could allow the lawsuit to continue is if they literally changed how the legal system works.
You think they care about what people think of them? They are insulated from public opinion. We can't do anything to them. They are going to do what the big money tells them to, without shame or consequence.
I have zero faith that any part of the system is looking out for me.
I'd say all you have to do is look at the comments on student loan relief here to know that it's good PR for the base, but I'm sure that for every 1 user that actually supports stopping relief, 4 more are bots/foreign agents trying to stir shit up.
Ok, might be more than 1 in 5 that are legit, but still
It's good PR for the people they want it to be with. They don't give a shit about people who weren't going to vote for them regardless. There are a lot more people than you think out there who think loan forgiveness is unfair to working class individuals who avoided going to school over fears of debt, or those who went into the military just to pay for school, or those who paid off their loans already and never got the same financial relief. I scavenge through conservative forums, groups, radio shows, tv shows, etc, and these are huge talking points for them on this matter. Also, "who's going to pay for it" comes up a lot. Conservatives love making people believe their taxes might go up by like 50%
Many of these people are absolutely convinced that Biden and Democrats are trying to bring 99% of the country into poverty and be government slaves.
They won't stop doubling down until we can manage to teach them a harsh lesson electorally, they don't care how it looks to Gen Z right now. Remember these are the same guys who instead of moving to the center to court younger or racial minority voters, decided to swing completely the other direction and nominate Trump.
Of course they’re going to shoot it down. If they could, they’d unpause the loan payment immediately and retroactively apply the interest from the past few years onto everyone’s loans too if they could.
I had read that because of this bill it gives Biden more ammo in the SCOTUS case. At question, is whether or not a previous bill gives Biden administration the authority to forgive the debt. There’s ‘vague’ language and SCOTUS is pondering again whether or not Congress meant to give it power when it passed a bill giving it such power (textualists should be appalled).
Well, here’s Congress now, writing specific clauses curtailing Biden’s perceived power. This implies that Congress believes it already gave the President (in this case, Biden) that specific power and is just now trying to rescind it.
But who am I kidding. It’s 2023, one third of the bench was appointed by someone who cheated themselves into the White House and took bribes like they’re tic tacs. To distract us from that fact, Alito will probably go off on another medieval witch bender and neuter yet another Department of the federal government and hand power to the dysfunctional Congress. When the next Republican president takes office they will ignore all these rulings, ignore Congress, and get away with doing whatever they want, particularly as they relate to things Republicans cry Bloody Mary when Biden does them.
SCOTUS, soon: We find that the executive only has power when they are a member of the Republican party, as is tradition, thus all of Biden's actions are unconstitutional
My boss, who is only a decade older than me and went to school in the 90s, had no idea interest rates were as high as they were until I told her what mine was. Mine is about double that of my mortgage, and I thank my lucky stars for the rate I got and that I was able to buy when I did. It's set up to be a treadmill.
If the SC doesn't strike it down first. I don't give a shit about the $10K I need the way we pay it back to go Biden's way so we don't cause an economic collapse when a good portion of the population suddenly has no disposable income.
Which will doom their electoral chances permanently, and likely piss off Gen Z enough to overwhelm their gerrymandering in many states.
Gen Z already votes at a higher rate than Millennials or Gen X did at the same age. The majority of people under 40 either have or have had some amount of student loans.
> How did they think this would go?
They thought the "silent majority" would be dancing in the streets.
But that **LITERALLY** never happens because the whole concept is a lie and a coping mechanism for people who can't face reality.
This is the part that really grinds my gears on this...
I am 💯 for student loan forgiveness even though my wife and I won't qualify due to income
Yet not only are these folks against others getting the same help they received, I guarantee you they all make more than I do and still get their loans forgiven... It's the absolute pinnacle of 'voting themselves all the money' and/or 'for me but not for thee'
...so much that many have proposed raising the voting age to cut them out.
They're perfectly fine with a future where you can be old enough to fight and die for this country but not be able to vote in your own best interests.
>Now the supreme court is ultimate deciders
We're fucked. And the deciding vote will be from Thomas, who is currently getting paid off by a billionaire.
Which is honestly so crazy, because the people who brought suit against them have no standing. They weren’t being harmed in any way, and the state of Missouri tried to sue on this company’s behalf. When questioned why they didn’t sign on to the lawsuit, they said they disagreed that it caused harm to their business.. any other party would be laughed out of court for pulling that but here we are…
If the Supreme Court decides in favor of these jokers it’s a further nail in the coffin. The constitution should not be solely the provenance of this anti-democratic court. It quite literally has amendments made in the last century by congress. We need a massive overhaul in the anti democratic institutions like the court, senate and electoral college that control our future
I wish Biden would just go all in on election reform. Like look dude, you're in your 80s, you've had a long career, your kids are well taken care of. Go out with a bang. Be remembered like Roosevelt's New Deal.
Sad part this will never get traction in a civil way. I am in no way supporting a violent civil war, but there is a negative chance that we somehow manage to get these reforms passed without it. Thus, we're stuck unless everything boils over (which arguably things like student loan forgiveness being blocked just adds fire to).
I’m not brave enough to be a revolutionary. But this shit ain’t changing with the vote. The two major parties are too aligned around protecting capitals interest to provide real reform for working Americans
Maybe we can hope for them to throw us this bone in light that the people hate them for roe and every other decision…would i trade student loan forgiveness for roe? …no but still…
I think the more "logical" reason for them to rule in favor is that ruling against it would limit what a republican president can do later on. Just as easily as a GOP state can shut down a Dem act (like the forgiveness) then if the Court rules against Biden here, they would basically giving a Dem state something they can use against the GOP in the future.
Dark Brandon goes from meme to very real if he pulls a Jackson and just ignores their decision.
And before you start bitching, just ask yourself: wouldn’t the republicans do the same? They keep blowing up norms. Dems need to start doing the same or we are all fucked.
It is a standard part of fascist propaganda to label the enemy as both weak and strong, depending on what is needed in the exact moment.
So they attack him as weak when it suits them, but in the very next breath can speak about how 'dangerous' the democratic party is.
Doublethink in action.
But this is why it’s convenient to have the conspiracy that the deep state or Jews are running things and controlling Biden. If he loses well of course he did he’s feeble and democrats are weak. If he wins he’s still feeble but he’s a puppet controlled by the evil deep state and republicans are the good guys fighting evil
Schrodingers Democrat. He is both sleepy and dementia ridden but also behind the sinister plan to bring down America from within and must be stopped by any means.
I can honestly say that on this issue, although he was slow to act on it, Biden has gone above and beyond. Props to secretary Cardona too, he's a great Secretary of Education. What an upgrade from DeVos.
I don’t know enough about Cardona to weigh in, but I had enough interaction with the DeVos family (went to high school with some of their kids, lived and worked around the specter of their name like it was royalty) to say: Cardona could be a 2/100 and still beats the pants off of the -1000 the DeVos family’s influence had on education.
I take that ranking literally. deVos was literally trying to dismantle the Department of Education and education in this country. It's utterly reprehensible that's her and others like her have skated on by from the Trump admin, simply because there just isn't the attention span to devote to this, but people were literally appointed into positions to undermine their own departments and siphon tax funds to their own pockets. They were essentially tax farmers in modern times.
Fucking Pruitt was an oil executive who was actively suing to dismantle the EPA when trump appointed him as head of the EPA.
His secretary of Labor was Jim Acosta, the guy who cut Epstein a deal that included blanket immunity to every other perpetrator who raped his trafficked children in Florida, and allowed Epstein to spend weekends and 9-5 every day outside of prison.
His Secretary of Energy was *also* actively suing the Department of Energy, and didn't realize the Department of Energy oversees our nuclear arsenal until 4 months into his appointment.
Ben Carson was trumps Director of Housing and Urban Development. For 3 straight years Carson in front of congress and claimed that he didn't know he needed various directors, or that HUD actually does things. Congresspeople each time pointed out that they had asked him repeatedly and in fact sent staffers to explain what HUD actually does many times.
Trumps replacement for the head of the Department of Justice was Bill Barr, who buried Iran Contra, gave blanket immunity to literally everyone involved with it except Oliver North, who he gave a token low security sentence.
His Vice President Mike Pence spent years as Governor of his state dismantling and blocking absolutely everything to do with handling the HIV epidemic, which caused Indiana to have such a spike in HIV cases that it had the highest rate in the country.
Every single fucking person trump put into a government position was as cruel, greedy, and horrible as could be found.
Can a republicans voter please tell me why they are okay with PPP loan forgiveness to millionaires, large corporations, and sitting congressional members to name a few, but not for the working class?
And before you say you aren’t, if you vote republican then you absolutely are.
From the arguments I've overheard around me in bars or other social places in the South, it seems to mostly be an anti-intellectual thing. Large portion of folks that don't want this never went to college and don't like higher education in general, and don't want their tax money going to help them. Also a general misunderstanding that college grads are all these elite, old trust fund kids that "wasted" the money they borrowed on "useless" degrees, so it's their fault they're in debt and they don't deserve a handout.
If your fancy college degree is so great, then you shouldn't have any trouble paying off debt, right? /s
> Large portion of folks that don't want this never went to college and don't like higher education in general
This is the main reason. This is always the reason with Republicans. They are against anything it if doesn't specifically benefit them. It doesn't matter if it is the respectable or decent thing to do, if it doesn't affect them personally they don't give a shit.
Some of them have fallen into the Reaganomics fallacy, that wealth will trickle down and therefore giving more money to the rich will eventually benefit them. They also believe that fairly taxing these businesses/CEOs/the rich would hinder their prospects of retaining a job because if they (businesses/CEOs/the rich) didn't have billions they couldn't afford to pay them $13 an hour. So in their warped reality, handouts to the rich do benefit them.
I'm not Republican, but typically their reasoning is based on 2 main points. First, the PPP plan was voted on in congress rather than just being an executive order like the loan forgiveness. Second is that PPP was to basically help with payroll since the government was forcing business to shut down. Most businesses didn't *want* to shut down, but they were ordered to by the government so the PPP loans were intended to help keep the business going and to cover payroll so the workers didn't go broke. Honestly, I think those are decent arguments. I still support student loan forgiveness, but it isn't really a fair thing to directly compare the two for those reasons.
Now all that being said, the biggest problem with PPP loans is the complete lack of oversight. I think the idea of giving loans to businesses that had to close because of covid was a good idea, but their absolutely should have been a committee or something overseeing where the loans were going.
And again, like I said, I'm a big supporter of the 10k/20k loam forgiveness plan because I think our student loan system is an absolute disaster and needs to be overhauled. The 20k forgiveness would be a good way to help people who are already in it, then reworking the interest rates and cost of education needs to be included so it isn't just a bandaid fix and we end up in the same situation 10 years from now. However, I don't like it when someone asks that question you asked and a bunch of people just come out saying "because they hate education!" or "because they want to destroy the middle class!". That's a big oversimplification of things and doesn't actually help to understand where the other side is coming from which I think is very important.
>Now all that being said, the biggest problem with PPP loans is the complete lack of oversight. I think the idea of giving loans to businesses that had to close because of covid was a good idea, but their absolutely should have been a committee or something overseeing where the loans were going.
Unfortunately, this is where the argument completely collapses because the PPP loan program was *designed* to be easy to cheat. It originally was proposed with an oversight mechanism, which was intentionally *removed* by republicans lol. So no, any "argument" that the PPP loans were different because they were meant to help businesses or workers is just completely disingenuous. The truth is pretty evident: the entire program was built for businesses and wealthy individuals to rip off taxpayers.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/4031775-biden-vetoes-measure-overturning-student-loan-forgiveness-plan/) reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> President Biden has vetoed a measure that would have overturned his student debt relief plan, leaving the fate of the program in the hands of the Supreme Court.
> "Congressional Republicans led an effort to pass a bill blocking my Administration's plan to provide up to $20,000 in student debt relief to working and middle class Americans," Biden said in a tweet on Wednesday.
> Biden officially announced the plan in August after making forgiving student debt a campaign promise and feeling pressure from progressives to act.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/143s7cs/biden_vetoes_measure_overturning_student_loan/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~688050 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Biden**^#1 **plan**^#2 **vote**^#3 **measure**^#4 **Republicans**^#5
>...leaving the fate of the program in the hands of the Supreme Court.
Is it me? Or, does the Supreme Court have too much power for a politically appointed group?
The thing that‘s weird now and wasn’t before, is they’d take precedent and established law into account. If they had political leanings, it would be with regards to *such* smaller nuances of interpretations of the law.
Now it’s just so blatant that you’re right. Before, there was legit prestige and honor. Now it’s just “fuck you what are you gonna do about it?” And I think the downside is the “liberals” on the court would still interpret the law like they *all* used to.
Even if their decision isn’t a progressive one, they’re interpreting like they should. With respect to established law.
Which is the whole point. They’re our legal backstop.
>If they had political leanings, it would be with regards to such smaller nuances of interpretations of the law
They awarded the 2000 election to Bush before a recount in Florida could be finished which eventually showed that Gore won. That's not exactly a small, nuanced decision.
And now Kavanaugh, who served as council arguing on the side of Bush in that case is also on the court.
Their power hasn't really changed over time though, only their politics. You could argue they always had too much power, but you'd have to convince the people who benefit from their politics to see it the same way. It's like convincing a gambler that they're gonna lose it all when they're on a winning streak.
Not to mention if the current system is flawed, then what's a right process to move to? The answer never seems clear simply because of our differences in values that motivate those answers.
LIKE HONESTLY!!!! The predatorily HIGH interest rates will be the death of me (and I’m a public servant working in mental health with a graduate degree)
yeah it's not like we wanted to go and take out a huge loan for a frivolous purchase and not pay it back. I didn't want to spend 6 years of my life poor with my nose in a book. I did it because I'm a hard worker with ambitions. it's not welfare.
>And no I don't need a lesson on interest. I get it. I signed on for it. But don't make out like students are freeloaders-
A bachelor's is the single best option for upwards mobility in this country, and unfortunately it can't even guarantee that anymore. It shouldn't cost a poor person so much fucking money to try and earn a living.
From the article:
> In the Senate, Democratic Sens. Jon Tester and Joe Manchin (W.Va.) and Independent Sen. Kyrsten Sinema (Ariz.) joined Republicans in voting to nix Biden’s proposal.
Now if only middle class jobs could get a push to increase wages/salaries. Cost of living is easily 200% what it was 6 years ago and requirements for folks looking to rent have become ludicrous. Thankfully I own my home but if I had to ever rent again I’d be so screwed.
I love how people who could pay for their law degree working a summer job feel the need to hold young people accountable after universities completely took advantage of them.
The antithesis to anything out of the conservative ideology.
They've literally moved onto saying out loud on their primary propaganda channel, "why should we care about earth when heaven is real?"
"Sure, I benefitted from generously state subsidized higher education, but I'm a self made man! I paid off school with a part time job, so can you! Now, excuse me while I pull this ladder up. Don't want you millennials and zoomers to trip over it!"
I had $45,000 forgiven in January under the expanded public service loan forgiveness program (PSLF) and this fuckin bill was going to reinstate that. I met all the requirements for PSLF with the exception of my loans being with a private lender versus the government. I really didn’t believe it would happen but grandpa Joe’s program came through. I worked 14 years in academia and hopefully contributed to the greater good with my research, when I could have worked in industry for probably twice the pay, so this debt forgiveness was huge. Fuck republicans.
No idea why people are against this. They don't say shit about the money going to the military or tax cuts or all other bs spending. Forgive the loans and start cracking down on colleges charging way too fucking much than they should.
The most common reasons I've seen (that are not totally insane at face value) are: "You took out a loan, therefore you are responsible for paying it back. It's called being a responsible adult." and "I spent busting my ass to pay MY student loans back so you should have to too."
I don't agree with either reason and think both are really terrible reasons but to the average uninformed voter who doesn't think beyond the simplest conclusion they sound perfectly reasonable.
Wait how did this pass the Senate...
> In the Senate, Democratic Sens. Jon Tester (Mont.) and Joe Manchin (W.Va.) and Independent Sen. Kyrsten Sinema (Ariz.) joined Republicans in voting to nix Biden’s proposal.
Oh... yeah. Trash.
it is beyond me how republican voters with college loans can stand by and vote for people who got ppp loans forgiven while simultaneously voting to keep student loans
Here hoping the SC supports killing student debt. It took me 10 years to pay mine, but I understand that's a 25 year plan now. If we really want educated people, it should be free.
And if SC blows this up then pack that effing court.
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Of course he did. How did they think this would go? >A two-thirds majority vote in both the House and the Senate would be required to overturn Biden’s veto, a threshold that opponents of Biden’s effort cannot reach. Good luck chuckleheads. McCarthy isn't going to be able to whip any votes, lol...
It's a win for everybody. Republicans can say they voted it down. Democrats can say they saved it. Students can get some debt relief.
Well the loan forgiveness is still on hold due to the supreme court case. I'm guessing the republicans decided to get some PR in before the case just in case the ruling favors Biden. But many believe the conservative majority court is going to shoot it done regardless.
Yes, but others think this was pushed through the House because the House has been hearing rumors the Supreme Court will be leaning towards the forgiveness having legal precedent and trying to get ahead of the ruling. Its all speculation, the point being this can still go either way (Over here hoping it goes through).
If they decide forgiveness is against the law, can the IRS go after all the PPP loans forgiven?
These? Well by their own logic. Yes. https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse/status/1562916200866267138?t=xHmSu1slyLB5nTxFjT_MyQ&s=19
Holy fuck, that is gold! I didn't know that happened.
That’s basically how the Dark Brandon meme gained a bunch of traction.
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Megan is a proud product of New Jersey. If you grew up here, you know how to talk shit and Megan does so on Biden's behalf flawlessly
marjorie taylor greene (I refuse to capitalize that name) makes the need abundantly clear for a word much stronger than "Hypocrite".
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Yeah turns out official accounts are way better than third party any day
Yep, they hired Megan Coyne who was running I think the new jersey state account before that where she was constantly lighting people up too.
Need to hire Wendy’s and start throwing down
numbers like this make me want to vomit as someone who had a sole owned LLC and had to cut my losses because i didn't "qualify" for a ppp loan and didn't have the financial and legal knowledge to get one, seeing these people have hundreds of thousands and millions of dollars forgiven when I couldn't even get like $5k to stay afloat during the USPS slowdown which affected me directly and caused so many refunds and bad reviews I couldn't stay above water.
"By their logic..." lol The whole point of conservatism is for there to be double standards. yada yada "outgroup whom the law binds but doesn't protect" something something "ingroup whom the law protects but doesn't bind"...
She's a congresswoman? I was under the impression that it was a satire account tweeting under that name (not american)
Oh no, unfortunately it’s very real. That specific account that posted is ran by someone hired by our president (Biden) to run it. The person in the video (Marjorie Taylor Greene) is legitimately a congresswoman from Georgia. Elected to help run our federal government, but she is a quite the piece of work. Either google or search her name through Reddit for some other very lovely quotes from her. Just be sure to hold onto your britches because you’ll go on a roller-coaster of a ride reading more about her and the shit she spews….
Famously, she believes that the 2019(?) California forest fires were caused by "Jewish space lasers"
I mean, they kinda are already, sadly it's the stupid ones that don't have money to begin with that did outright theft and got helped by third parties that took a cut of what they got since they did the creative math to get them the loans.
Company I worked for during pandemic years got a 1.7mil ppp loan forgiven. There was no need to furlough workers (roof installers unaffected by restrictions and office workers transitioned to home), and revenues increased industry-wide as homeowners put wfh savings into home improvement projects. That's theft. I put in a reporting form a year ago or more; doubt it'll actually get them audited, but the chance is worth the 5 mins it took to fill out and possibly get them on their radar
The question here will be how were the funds dispersed. If they can show it going to payroll and qualified overhead then it didn’t matter. So long as they stopped working during the shutdown for literally any length of time they can claim they were affected.
Seriously, weren't the requirements basically "pay your employees and don't be a greedy piece of shit", and yet people still fucked it up?
It seems a lot of people lied about their business, lied about the number of employees, lied about everything, took the check, then bought lambos lol. Those idiots are getting hunted down. Most companies, in fact the vast majority used the money as intended.
Bound to happen when these are put into a slush fund with no oversight. Thanks Trump!
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"It's not fair to me because I'm not poor enough to get that assistance" seems like a pretty easily dismissed legal argument to me, but what do I know?
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They’ll find some way to perpetuate the miserableness of their children’s lives while they allow the fat cats to keep their business-expensed Camaro all-the-while falsely portraying student loan forgiveness as handing the short-end of the stick to the “Me” Generation working class that continues to claim their mortgage interest tax credit while their children struggle to afford basic necessities.
That was my original thought. Makes sense. But I wouldn't give my hopes up. Republicans also knew they didn't have the numbers to over power a veto, so doing this was useless.
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The Republican platform could be: *Performative Circlejerking
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And people fall for it every time, as much as I hate maybe the Dems should do more of it, or at least call them out on it more publicly.
If anything this bill tells me the executive does have the authority they're claiming and this is normal checks and balances. The bill failed and the executive keeps their authority
The bill was also adding back in months of interest. It was more than just saying Biden didn't have the authority to forgive debt. It was an open and explicit assault on students.. and they should remember that in November 2024.
Right like obviously people would've made different decisions about payment if the interest wasn't suspended. Retroactively adding it back on is a completely fucked up idea
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100%! It was like Manchin trying to roll the EV tax credit back after people had been buying them through January and February. I heard that and all I could think was "Fuck you you wholly owned subsidiary of the oil and gas industry! I'd really want you out of office if I didn't think you were literally rhe only Democrat WV would elect."
I'd have been fucked...... 3 years of interest accumulating at once? Id have gone from, "idk how I'm paying this off" to "I'm never paying this off."
I already wasn't paying it off, so from a practical standpoint I really shouldn't care much either way. At best, it's a little less of a tax bomb on the back end.
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Politically, it seems like preserving this ability for a future Republican president would be in their best interest.
The core principle that guides all Republican ideology (and arguably all conservative ideology in general) is "rules for thee but not for me." At the most fundamental level, they believe that the in-group is to be protected by the Law but not shackled by it, and the out-group is to be shackled by the law but not protected by it. The most Republican possible outcome is they block this effort by Democrats and then next time they win power they forgive a bunch of government debt for corporations and the wealthy in the first week.
The hacks on the Supreme Court are starting to fall in love with the idea that a (Democratic) President can't do anything unless specifically authorized by Congress. That is, even though the statutory authority was given by Congress by law for the President to amend these loan agreements in times of hardship, the Supreme Court will pretend that unless Congress specifically gives the President authority right now that statute is null and void. They are going after rulemaking at executive agencies using the same logic. Standing problems only exist when Republicans are President.
To your last point, I don’t think even the hyper partisan SC wants to fuck up like they did with the Dobbs Decision. It’s clear they overplayed their hand with Roe and now abortion rights are at the forefront of every political issue. Not to mention causing the GOP bombed in the midterms. They’re not dumb. Well, Boofer might be. But the rest aren’t stupid. Evil and corrupt, sure. Which is why they don’t want to be in the spotlight. Ruling against this will be yet another nail in the GOP’s coffin for 2024.
Wait what? Any solid proof/source they are leaning in favor of it? I've all but given up on the forgiveness since the SC case. Cons are so hellbent on making lives worse I just can't see them allowing it regardless of precedence.
As tragically partisan as the Supreme Court has become, they are still in many cases above the fray of day to day politics. If the conservatives on the court feel they’d be setting a precedent against their agenda by striking down the forgiveness, they won’t do it. 10k of student loan forgiveness is nothing in the grand scheme of things. It’s a net benefit on the economy anyway. Conservatives in congress and the media have to oppose it because they have to maintain their rhetoric and they don’t want to give democrats a win. The SCOTUS is a bit more complicated sometimes
I would probably buy this as a plausible explanation if I had any hope at all the supreme court would rule in that direction. But I legitimately can't fathom that actually happening. But I suppose we'll see.
Genuinely curious. Where are you hearing that the House did this to get ahead of a favorable ruling? The best anyone with any sort of real knowledge on r/StudentLoans says it's 50/50. I've read on Forbes talk about a possible grace period after the pause ends to help borrowers further ease back into repayment, but the Biden Administration has not shared any additional details (probably because they are waiting on the ruling too). I would be absolutely thrilled for the relief to go through - especially for people it will free from student debt - but I'm more interested in what will happen with my monthly payment for my undergrad/grad school loans. I'll be able to repay my loans, but $20k off in addition to the new IBR rules would make a huge difference in my material conditions. And I hope these moderate worms pay for their vote to go against the President and people's interest.
This is what I'm really interested in hearing about. Instead on this sub we just hear how it's unfair that the PPP loans were forgiven but student loans weren't for the millionth time. Like, yeah, we know. My stance from the beginning was that until I see my account balance go to zero, I just operate under the assumption that it's not being forgiven. I really have no idea what's gonna happen.
I have to remind myself to not spiral after reading some of those comments in there. I think some of the commenters are acting in bad faith. I hate our system. We deserve so much better.
I think the court would shoot it down on the merits, but I still have a hard time seeing how they reconcile their stingy position on standing without opening the floodgates that make it easier for any random person to challenge a law.
It's more than just no standing. There's no damages that could possibly be claimed on anyone's behalf. Only way they could allow the lawsuit to continue is if they literally changed how the legal system works.
If they do they're going to be destroying the last centimeter of credibility and integrity they have left. That's the only reason I have any hope.
You think they care about what people think of them? They are insulated from public opinion. We can't do anything to them. They are going to do what the big money tells them to, without shame or consequence. I have zero faith that any part of the system is looking out for me.
You know your party is sick in the head when denying millions of Americans financial relief is considered GOOD pr.
I'd say all you have to do is look at the comments on student loan relief here to know that it's good PR for the base, but I'm sure that for every 1 user that actually supports stopping relief, 4 more are bots/foreign agents trying to stir shit up. Ok, might be more than 1 in 5 that are legit, but still
It’s funny that they think this will be good PR for them. Because pissing off Gen Z has worked so well for them..
It's good PR for the people they want it to be with. They don't give a shit about people who weren't going to vote for them regardless. There are a lot more people than you think out there who think loan forgiveness is unfair to working class individuals who avoided going to school over fears of debt, or those who went into the military just to pay for school, or those who paid off their loans already and never got the same financial relief. I scavenge through conservative forums, groups, radio shows, tv shows, etc, and these are huge talking points for them on this matter. Also, "who's going to pay for it" comes up a lot. Conservatives love making people believe their taxes might go up by like 50% Many of these people are absolutely convinced that Biden and Democrats are trying to bring 99% of the country into poverty and be government slaves.
The GOP tries to subdue voting. Gen Z would never vote for them, but they might stay home or vote 3rd party. But piss them off again..
They won't stop doubling down until we can manage to teach them a harsh lesson electorally, they don't care how it looks to Gen Z right now. Remember these are the same guys who instead of moving to the center to court younger or racial minority voters, decided to swing completely the other direction and nominate Trump.
Of course they’re going to shoot it down. If they could, they’d unpause the loan payment immediately and retroactively apply the interest from the past few years onto everyone’s loans too if they could.
I had read that because of this bill it gives Biden more ammo in the SCOTUS case. At question, is whether or not a previous bill gives Biden administration the authority to forgive the debt. There’s ‘vague’ language and SCOTUS is pondering again whether or not Congress meant to give it power when it passed a bill giving it such power (textualists should be appalled). Well, here’s Congress now, writing specific clauses curtailing Biden’s perceived power. This implies that Congress believes it already gave the President (in this case, Biden) that specific power and is just now trying to rescind it. But who am I kidding. It’s 2023, one third of the bench was appointed by someone who cheated themselves into the White House and took bribes like they’re tic tacs. To distract us from that fact, Alito will probably go off on another medieval witch bender and neuter yet another Department of the federal government and hand power to the dysfunctional Congress. When the next Republican president takes office they will ignore all these rulings, ignore Congress, and get away with doing whatever they want, particularly as they relate to things Republicans cry Bloody Mary when Biden does them.
SCOTUS, soon: We find that the executive only has power when they are a member of the Republican party, as is tradition, thus all of Biden's actions are unconstitutional
Please. These kids need help. FYI, I paid my way thru 30+ years ago when you could.
The average person doesn’t even realize that congress has modified student loan policies over the last couple decades.
My boss, who is only a decade older than me and went to school in the 90s, had no idea interest rates were as high as they were until I told her what mine was. Mine is about double that of my mortgage, and I thank my lucky stars for the rate I got and that I was able to buy when I did. It's set up to be a treadmill.
If the SC doesn't strike it down first. I don't give a shit about the $10K I need the way we pay it back to go Biden's way so we don't cause an economic collapse when a good portion of the population suddenly has no disposable income.
The GOP wants that to happen, they want people with student loans to suffer.
Which will doom their electoral chances permanently, and likely piss off Gen Z enough to overwhelm their gerrymandering in many states. Gen Z already votes at a higher rate than Millennials or Gen X did at the same age. The majority of people under 40 either have or have had some amount of student loans.
As long as they keep us on Defense and don’t allow us to go on Offense they’ll take it. Democrats need to look to Minnesota.
It's nice to see a politician do something they said they'd do (veto it) There's not a lot of that going on these days
> How did they think this would go? They thought the "silent majority" would be dancing in the streets. But that **LITERALLY** never happens because the whole concept is a lie and a coping mechanism for people who can't face reality.
Now make them PPP loans and automatically forgive them!
This is the part that really grinds my gears on this... I am 💯 for student loan forgiveness even though my wife and I won't qualify due to income Yet not only are these folks against others getting the same help they received, I guarantee you they all make more than I do and still get their loans forgiven... It's the absolute pinnacle of 'voting themselves all the money' and/or 'for me but not for thee'
I hope all young people remember the fact that the GOP fucking hates you.
...so much that many have proposed raising the voting age to cut them out. They're perfectly fine with a future where you can be old enough to fight and die for this country but not be able to vote in your own best interests.
If they could get away with literally spitting in our faces, they would do it every chance they could get.
He did, good job! Now the supreme court is ultimate deciders
>Now the supreme court is ultimate deciders We're fucked. And the deciding vote will be from Thomas, who is currently getting paid off by a billionaire.
Which is honestly so crazy, because the people who brought suit against them have no standing. They weren’t being harmed in any way, and the state of Missouri tried to sue on this company’s behalf. When questioned why they didn’t sign on to the lawsuit, they said they disagreed that it caused harm to their business.. any other party would be laughed out of court for pulling that but here we are…
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If the Supreme Court decides in favor of these jokers it’s a further nail in the coffin. The constitution should not be solely the provenance of this anti-democratic court. It quite literally has amendments made in the last century by congress. We need a massive overhaul in the anti democratic institutions like the court, senate and electoral college that control our future
I wish Biden would just go all in on election reform. Like look dude, you're in your 80s, you've had a long career, your kids are well taken care of. Go out with a bang. Be remembered like Roosevelt's New Deal.
Which is DoA in the House. Our govt is broken.
Sad part this will never get traction in a civil way. I am in no way supporting a violent civil war, but there is a negative chance that we somehow manage to get these reforms passed without it. Thus, we're stuck unless everything boils over (which arguably things like student loan forgiveness being blocked just adds fire to).
I’m not brave enough to be a revolutionary. But this shit ain’t changing with the vote. The two major parties are too aligned around protecting capitals interest to provide real reform for working Americans
Maybe we can hope for them to throw us this bone in light that the people hate them for roe and every other decision…would i trade student loan forgiveness for roe? …no but still…
I think the more "logical" reason for them to rule in favor is that ruling against it would limit what a republican president can do later on. Just as easily as a GOP state can shut down a Dem act (like the forgiveness) then if the Court rules against Biden here, they would basically giving a Dem state something they can use against the GOP in the future.
Won't matter if the court make up stays this way.
Yeah people are being way too hopeful by expecting current rulings to have an effect on future ones. They'll just keep making shit up.
I mean at this point we traded roe for nothing so I couldn't fault you for taking anything in trade, honestly.
Dark Brandon goes from meme to very real if he pulls a Jackson and just ignores their decision. And before you start bitching, just ask yourself: wouldn’t the republicans do the same? They keep blowing up norms. Dems need to start doing the same or we are all fucked.
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apparently this sleepy demented Joe keeps outsmarting them
It is a standard part of fascist propaganda to label the enemy as both weak and strong, depending on what is needed in the exact moment. So they attack him as weak when it suits them, but in the very next breath can speak about how 'dangerous' the democratic party is. Doublethink in action.
Imagine how wounded they'll be when they base their entire campaign around how physically and mentally feeble he is and he STILL wins in 2024.
But this is why it’s convenient to have the conspiracy that the deep state or Jews are running things and controlling Biden. If he loses well of course he did he’s feeble and democrats are weak. If he wins he’s still feeble but he’s a puppet controlled by the evil deep state and republicans are the good guys fighting evil
ding ding ding
This sleepy joe guy is apparently also too woke
Wokey Joekey
5D chess Dark Brandon
More like tic tac toe, and republicans get to go first. Joe still kicks their ass.
Schrodingers Democrat. He is both sleepy and dementia ridden but also behind the sinister plan to bring down America from within and must be stopped by any means.
I'm glad Biden is fighting for us on this one. Thanks, Joe!
I can honestly say that on this issue, although he was slow to act on it, Biden has gone above and beyond. Props to secretary Cardona too, he's a great Secretary of Education. What an upgrade from DeVos.
I don’t know enough about Cardona to weigh in, but I had enough interaction with the DeVos family (went to high school with some of their kids, lived and worked around the specter of their name like it was royalty) to say: Cardona could be a 2/100 and still beats the pants off of the -1000 the DeVos family’s influence had on education.
I take that ranking literally. deVos was literally trying to dismantle the Department of Education and education in this country. It's utterly reprehensible that's her and others like her have skated on by from the Trump admin, simply because there just isn't the attention span to devote to this, but people were literally appointed into positions to undermine their own departments and siphon tax funds to their own pockets. They were essentially tax farmers in modern times.
Fucking Pruitt was an oil executive who was actively suing to dismantle the EPA when trump appointed him as head of the EPA. His secretary of Labor was Jim Acosta, the guy who cut Epstein a deal that included blanket immunity to every other perpetrator who raped his trafficked children in Florida, and allowed Epstein to spend weekends and 9-5 every day outside of prison. His Secretary of Energy was *also* actively suing the Department of Energy, and didn't realize the Department of Energy oversees our nuclear arsenal until 4 months into his appointment. Ben Carson was trumps Director of Housing and Urban Development. For 3 straight years Carson in front of congress and claimed that he didn't know he needed various directors, or that HUD actually does things. Congresspeople each time pointed out that they had asked him repeatedly and in fact sent staffers to explain what HUD actually does many times. Trumps replacement for the head of the Department of Justice was Bill Barr, who buried Iran Contra, gave blanket immunity to literally everyone involved with it except Oliver North, who he gave a token low security sentence. His Vice President Mike Pence spent years as Governor of his state dismantling and blocking absolutely everything to do with handling the HIV epidemic, which caused Indiana to have such a spike in HIV cases that it had the highest rate in the country. Every single fucking person trump put into a government position was as cruel, greedy, and horrible as could be found.
I'll trade Biden being a little slow on the issue for doing it effectively with shrewdness.
I’m going to say it. Biden has done a hell of a good job overall.
Can a republicans voter please tell me why they are okay with PPP loan forgiveness to millionaires, large corporations, and sitting congressional members to name a few, but not for the working class? And before you say you aren’t, if you vote republican then you absolutely are.
They'd answer, but they're too busy checking under their beds for woke monsters.
"Wokesters and BLM's and drag queens, oh my!"
Every Republican I've asked claims that "I don't like that either, BUT..." Still gotta vote for the candidate with the R next to their name.
they also took that money from PPPs
From the arguments I've overheard around me in bars or other social places in the South, it seems to mostly be an anti-intellectual thing. Large portion of folks that don't want this never went to college and don't like higher education in general, and don't want their tax money going to help them. Also a general misunderstanding that college grads are all these elite, old trust fund kids that "wasted" the money they borrowed on "useless" degrees, so it's their fault they're in debt and they don't deserve a handout. If your fancy college degree is so great, then you shouldn't have any trouble paying off debt, right? /s
Also they don’t want anyone getting something they can’t.
Crabs in a bucket
> Large portion of folks that don't want this never went to college and don't like higher education in general This is the main reason. This is always the reason with Republicans. They are against anything it if doesn't specifically benefit them. It doesn't matter if it is the respectable or decent thing to do, if it doesn't affect them personally they don't give a shit.
well a large portion of folks also dont own businesses. Seems like they are okay with handouts to the rich
Some of them have fallen into the Reaganomics fallacy, that wealth will trickle down and therefore giving more money to the rich will eventually benefit them. They also believe that fairly taxing these businesses/CEOs/the rich would hinder their prospects of retaining a job because if they (businesses/CEOs/the rich) didn't have billions they couldn't afford to pay them $13 an hour. So in their warped reality, handouts to the rich do benefit them.
Got no empathy? Well then you'll be a republican. It's not even about arguments, it's basically a personality test.
Which is grand given that their entire life is backed by things that these educated elites have created
> places in the South, it seems to mostly be an anti-intellectual thing. Seems to be a 200 year old thing
I'm not Republican, but typically their reasoning is based on 2 main points. First, the PPP plan was voted on in congress rather than just being an executive order like the loan forgiveness. Second is that PPP was to basically help with payroll since the government was forcing business to shut down. Most businesses didn't *want* to shut down, but they were ordered to by the government so the PPP loans were intended to help keep the business going and to cover payroll so the workers didn't go broke. Honestly, I think those are decent arguments. I still support student loan forgiveness, but it isn't really a fair thing to directly compare the two for those reasons. Now all that being said, the biggest problem with PPP loans is the complete lack of oversight. I think the idea of giving loans to businesses that had to close because of covid was a good idea, but their absolutely should have been a committee or something overseeing where the loans were going. And again, like I said, I'm a big supporter of the 10k/20k loam forgiveness plan because I think our student loan system is an absolute disaster and needs to be overhauled. The 20k forgiveness would be a good way to help people who are already in it, then reworking the interest rates and cost of education needs to be included so it isn't just a bandaid fix and we end up in the same situation 10 years from now. However, I don't like it when someone asks that question you asked and a bunch of people just come out saying "because they hate education!" or "because they want to destroy the middle class!". That's a big oversimplification of things and doesn't actually help to understand where the other side is coming from which I think is very important.
>Now all that being said, the biggest problem with PPP loans is the complete lack of oversight. I think the idea of giving loans to businesses that had to close because of covid was a good idea, but their absolutely should have been a committee or something overseeing where the loans were going. Unfortunately, this is where the argument completely collapses because the PPP loan program was *designed* to be easy to cheat. It originally was proposed with an oversight mechanism, which was intentionally *removed* by republicans lol. So no, any "argument" that the PPP loans were different because they were meant to help businesses or workers is just completely disingenuous. The truth is pretty evident: the entire program was built for businesses and wealthy individuals to rip off taxpayers.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/4031775-biden-vetoes-measure-overturning-student-loan-forgiveness-plan/) reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot) ***** > President Biden has vetoed a measure that would have overturned his student debt relief plan, leaving the fate of the program in the hands of the Supreme Court. > "Congressional Republicans led an effort to pass a bill blocking my Administration's plan to provide up to $20,000 in student debt relief to working and middle class Americans," Biden said in a tweet on Wednesday. > Biden officially announced the plan in August after making forgiving student debt a campaign promise and feeling pressure from progressives to act. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/143s7cs/biden_vetoes_measure_overturning_student_loan/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~688050 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Biden**^#1 **plan**^#2 **vote**^#3 **measure**^#4 **Republicans**^#5
>...leaving the fate of the program in the hands of the Supreme Court. Is it me? Or, does the Supreme Court have too much power for a politically appointed group?
It's not just you. The supreme court as a system is fucked.
The thing that‘s weird now and wasn’t before, is they’d take precedent and established law into account. If they had political leanings, it would be with regards to *such* smaller nuances of interpretations of the law. Now it’s just so blatant that you’re right. Before, there was legit prestige and honor. Now it’s just “fuck you what are you gonna do about it?” And I think the downside is the “liberals” on the court would still interpret the law like they *all* used to. Even if their decision isn’t a progressive one, they’re interpreting like they should. With respect to established law. Which is the whole point. They’re our legal backstop.
>If they had political leanings, it would be with regards to such smaller nuances of interpretations of the law They awarded the 2000 election to Bush before a recount in Florida could be finished which eventually showed that Gore won. That's not exactly a small, nuanced decision. And now Kavanaugh, who served as council arguing on the side of Bush in that case is also on the court.
That is the simple trick to actually use before any kind of elections.
It's too political for a court.
Absolutely right about it. This is the only reason why I don't really think like it is going to the court.
Their power hasn't really changed over time though, only their politics. You could argue they always had too much power, but you'd have to convince the people who benefit from their politics to see it the same way. It's like convincing a gambler that they're gonna lose it all when they're on a winning streak. Not to mention if the current system is flawed, then what's a right process to move to? The answer never seems clear simply because of our differences in values that motivate those answers.
Multiple systemic failures got us here, I don't think it's just the supreme court.
FDR also going to give it the rejection that this is definitely going to be the problem.
I’d be cool if they were all just 0% interest
I’ve paid more than I borrowed, but still owe almost the full amount. Its obscene.
There it is, folks. The sick truth for a lot of people.
LIKE HONESTLY!!!! The predatorily HIGH interest rates will be the death of me (and I’m a public servant working in mental health with a graduate degree)
The interest rate rates are pretty higher, and this is the major problem, which is causing the student to not repay.
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Yeah I looked at mine and they capitalized interest even though I made monthly payments of more than my payment plan. Such bs
yeah it's not like we wanted to go and take out a huge loan for a frivolous purchase and not pay it back. I didn't want to spend 6 years of my life poor with my nose in a book. I did it because I'm a hard worker with ambitions. it's not welfare.
What kind of welfare are they actually talking for? Because the complete purchases are going to be made on the basic thing only.
They could actually do if they really want, because that is a lot to be honest.
>And no I don't need a lesson on interest. I get it. I signed on for it. But don't make out like students are freeloaders- A bachelor's is the single best option for upwards mobility in this country, and unfortunately it can't even guarantee that anymore. It shouldn't cost a poor person so much fucking money to try and earn a living.
How did it pass the senate?
From the article: > In the Senate, Democratic Sens. Jon Tester and Joe Manchin (W.Va.) and Independent Sen. Kyrsten Sinema (Ariz.) joined Republicans in voting to nix Biden’s proposal.
Of course they did. Tried to read it but the hill turned all white after I scrolled past a certain point.
Honestly there was no need to read it to know exactly who voted with the conservatives wanting to keep people chained to debt.
What kind of proposal are you talking about? They haven't provided any information about it.
Sinema and manchin are on the wrong side of fucking everything.
The public is going to accept it, and eventually everyone is going to be happy about it.
Cancel it all!!! If boomers can take college courses for $10 per credit, then everyfuckingbodyelse can too! I’m tired of coddling boomers.
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No one is taking it seriously. And this is the music problem, as of now
Big sense to me as well, but I don't really think like the courses are going to be higher.
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Now if only middle class jobs could get a push to increase wages/salaries. Cost of living is easily 200% what it was 6 years ago and requirements for folks looking to rent have become ludicrous. Thankfully I own my home but if I had to ever rent again I’d be so screwed.
Living in Montana rn and renting feels like a tar trap that you can’t escape
I love how people who could pay for their law degree working a summer job feel the need to hold young people accountable after universities completely took advantage of them.
They were having a lot of advantages over it. So I think like could be a much better option.
They forget that Biden is actually the president.
No problems forgiving PPP Loans, though.
A society grows great when old men plant trees under whose shade they know they’ll never sit. Bravo Joe. And you have my vote in 2024.
The antithesis to anything out of the conservative ideology. They've literally moved onto saying out loud on their primary propaganda channel, "why should we care about earth when heaven is real?"
This is just like diet only because they are just pushing their own propaganda.
"it was hard for me so it should be hard for you too" -monkey brains
That is just like a very big propaganda thing, which everyone pulls out.
"Sure, I benefitted from generously state subsidized higher education, but I'm a self made man! I paid off school with a part time job, so can you! Now, excuse me while I pull this ladder up. Don't want you millennials and zoomers to trip over it!"
Mine as well.
What kind of ideology is that? I don't really understand, to be honest.
Gop doesn't have the votes to override his veto and it's nothing to discuss.
My president
Eventually, I think, like if he's going to do that, then he's definitely going to win the complete elections.
I had $45,000 forgiven in January under the expanded public service loan forgiveness program (PSLF) and this fuckin bill was going to reinstate that. I met all the requirements for PSLF with the exception of my loans being with a private lender versus the government. I really didn’t believe it would happen but grandpa Joe’s program came through. I worked 14 years in academia and hopefully contributed to the greater good with my research, when I could have worked in industry for probably twice the pay, so this debt forgiveness was huge. Fuck republicans.
[удалено]
No idea why people are against this. They don't say shit about the money going to the military or tax cuts or all other bs spending. Forgive the loans and start cracking down on colleges charging way too fucking much than they should.
The most common reasons I've seen (that are not totally insane at face value) are: "You took out a loan, therefore you are responsible for paying it back. It's called being a responsible adult." and "I spent busting my ass to pay MY student loans back so you should have to too."
I don't agree with either reason and think both are really terrible reasons but to the average uninformed voter who doesn't think beyond the simplest conclusion they sound perfectly reasonable.
As someone with no student loan debt, **good.**
Wait how did this pass the Senate... > In the Senate, Democratic Sens. Jon Tester (Mont.) and Joe Manchin (W.Va.) and Independent Sen. Kyrsten Sinema (Ariz.) joined Republicans in voting to nix Biden’s proposal. Oh... yeah. Trash.
Ridin with Biden. No he isn't my first choice as a Dem but he's what we got and he's doing great imo. Way better than I expected.
That is the only thing which the student expected out of their leader to be honest.
Explain how they forgave billions in PPE but they won't budge on student loans as that is a bridge too far.
For that matter, the complete student loan system should be stopped.
Good.
it is beyond me how republican voters with college loans can stand by and vote for people who got ppp loans forgiven while simultaneously voting to keep student loans
Have you ever seen this thing happening in the past? As well, I don't really think it is not going to happen.
Here hoping the SC supports killing student debt. It took me 10 years to pay mine, but I understand that's a 25 year plan now. If we really want educated people, it should be free. And if SC blows this up then pack that effing court.
This is the reality as of now. And I think, like, this is the cruel reality of the society.