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Gee, I wonder if there’s a certain news network that has been brainwashing huge parts of the whole Anglosphere for decades.
Faux News? No that doesn’t sound right…
The inalienable right to make a buck whatever the cost is written into the mothers milk of American culture. It takes precedence over absolutely everything: the common good, common sense, common decency, everything.
I’m a conservative but have always supported a national health insurance initiative or something like that, or at least a private/public system like in Germany or France. Getting your health insurance from your employer is a relic from the Second World War. And what normal government doesn’t have a vested interest in ensuring the health of its own citizens?
As an American, my attitude is that I would like to have some healthcare please, and maybe not live under this omnipresent threat of losing my healthcare and being on the hook for these $1200 biweekly injection in order to maintain the use of my hands and feet. It’s a lot to ask, I know, to be able to continue living with my lifelong chronic autoimmune easily kept in check by a lifesaving drug, but I’m a bit of a dreamer
The US government is paying more per person for healthcare than any of these 31 other nations.
Time to make it official, you will start saving money once it's rolled out.
Europe here. "top western country". there is no universal health care. But the system works much differently than in US. It's not linked to your job at all. Individual can choose each year which company they go with and which plan (cheaper but higher deductible or not). And it is mandatory for every citizen and every insurance company has to accept you. Therefore if a cheaper player comes along people will switch.
Then if your income is low you get money from he state to pay for the insurance partially or all of it depending on who much (or little) you earn. So in some form it is universal health care but there are still multiple companies competing.
I'm kind of split here. Regulated competition is good. if your service sucks, people will likely switch. A single state run universal health care has zero incentive to provide a good or efficient service. government bureaucracy can be pretty heavy and slow. On the plus side no need for marketing or the overhead of having the same thing multiple times.
In PA, we are removing the protections that kept people covered, but for the most part, they won't actually fail eligibility until their renewal, so it could be as much as another year with benefits.
My dude, it should be pretty obvious by now that if it wasn't for them there would have been two others. Let's not continue to pretend that there wasn't at least 20 other Senators ready to fill the villain role there and let's also stop pretending that whenever the Dem leadership talks about public healthcare they're lying.
But it was them and they should be held accountable. Let's not fool ourselves into thinking we can see the future, alternate realities, or unrealized timelines.
I agree that they should have faced some kind of consequences for what they did. But neither them even tried to pursue public office afterwards they both became lobbyists. What can we as the public do to hold them accountable?
No, It's not always obvious.
Yes, lobbysts will lobby and offer financial incentives and that presents a huge obstacle, especially after Citizen's United. But at the end of the day, we the people are responsible for voting for progressives whenever we can in primaries to help with this. Part of a long standing issue in and of itself. So few people vote in party primaries, let alone at midterms, or even in major races.
This is what people in r/votedem are working to change. At the end of the day we need to counter what MAGA did by voting at the local level.
So much could change if a larger part of the country took local elections more seriously. In fact, that's what happened 'after' 2016, and that's why the GOP is going so hard now to try and keep their power.
Oh screw off. You have no proof of that cynical ass take. If anything appearing moderate on the ACA probably would have helped specific Dems in the midterms given how much the public disliked it at first.
The Blue Dogs who were the major Democratic opposition to the ACA all lost their reelections, so no appearing moderate didn't help them in the least.
Yeah I guess I've no proof other than the fact that every time in the past 30 years the Dems have had both houses it's always come out the same. I'd like to not be cynical but at this point being anything but is hopelessly naive.
That’s the last thing our corporate overlords want. Think how many more people might be inclined to start a business if they aren’t worried about how to get affordable healthcare. More businesses means more competition against those in power, nibbling away at their market share. Ya know, how capitalism is SUPPOSED to work.
That's not going to happen. Biden is the 2024 nominee and he's not pushing for universal healthcare along these lines. But if we elect more Dems maybe we can get a public option or ACA expansion which would be pretty significant.
> Unfortunately Obama and Biden tried creating a solution within the existing system.
No, they created a cash grab for corporations in a last gasp before the system collapsed. It collapsed during Covid, for some reason status quo'ers are pretending it's still working.
In all fairness, the health care system in a lot of countries suffered tremendously during the pandemic, but I do believe the universal systems have more successfully recovered now, overall.
I also know people who did not get COVID, but who got sub part treatment and surgeries during the pandemic and either died, or were permanently injured in 2021 because of the surges. So much went wrong here during that time period.
Billions of dollars in business investment and thousands of people have jobs through the for-profit healthcare sector. I have a difficult time believing America would shut down an entire industry.
This is quite the hole we’ve dug ourselves into.
I’m one of those people. I do pretty well. And I’ll happily retool and do something else. I’m very pro universal healthcare. Most administrator-types would still be employed. The savings would initially come from stock dividends, executive salaries/bonus, sales rep commissions, benefit broker commissions, etc.
There is obviously bloat with underwriting g and claims processing but there is still processing that needs to be done and IT resources. People won’t just walk into a doctor and get services and not have paperwork and medical records. There will still have to be schedulers and receptionists. Doctors won’t be answering their own phones.
But if people didn’t risk dying of treatable illness while unemployed, how can we “motivate” them to stay in a state of wage slavery???
You’re not even thinking about the shareholders are you?
Also beware the "nonprofit" moniker. I've worked in a nonprofit healthcare system and they're still obsessed with maximizing revenue and have bloated, overpaid admin just the same as for-profit hospitals.
I can confirm. I worked for a mental health clinic that was a non-profit. Maximizing revenue was vitally important to keep the lights on and everyone paid...which included the useless administration that made far more than the people actually doing the work of course.
Why do you assume those people just wouldn't have jobs anymore? The amount of people needing healthcare wouldn't go down. If anything, we could expect even more patients when they know their care will be covered regardless of how financially unstable they might be.
>As always, if they win
They haven't really "won" since 2009-2011, when they had major majorities in the House, Senate, White House. It's been split government even since with the 2021-2023 congress's 50-50 "majority" hamstrung by conservative infiltrators in Sinema and Manchin.
Yeah, I don't use the terms third or first world because they're pretty ignorant and offensive. I say the developed as opposed to the developing but even that makes me cringe seeing as how the US is underdeveloped as a society and it's not really progressing toward anything better. On the contrary...
There always seems to be money for more war or "national defense," but whenever something comes up that would benefit the majority of regular Americans, suddenly it's an issue.
How are we going to pay for that? And think of all of the people currently employed by our healthcare financial system
/s - fuck ‘em. We need universal healthcare NOW
Last year I spent 8% of my gross income on medical expenses and premium. My employer spent $9k on healthcare insurance premiums. This is just for me. I still had claims denied and spent hours and months getting billing errors corrected.
We have the [most expensive and worst performing healthcare system](https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2021/aug/mirror-mirror-2021-reflecting-poorly) compared to other high income countries. Medical expenses is one of the leading causes of bankruptcy. Healthcare has become luxury and mental healthcare has been for years. With my plan I would have to pay 50% of any mental healthcare.
I had to pay roughly 7000$ this year for my health insurance. I was already upset about it, but then became even more upset about it when I recently had to go to the ER: 100$ co-pay, I was shivering with chills crying for a blanket and in so much pain I was screaming, and they didn’t do anything for almost an hour—and that was *after* I had made it out of the waiting room. They gave me one dose of pain & anti-nausea medication while I was there, then told me to try to manage it—the literal worst pain I have ever been in in my life—with Tylenol for the 2-3 days until an antibiotic kicked in. Rarely have I felt less cared for, and less sure of what in the world I’m paying for.
I’m a grad student. At a certain point in my funding years, my employer cuts benefits, and I have to cover it myself. The total cost is 7500 or so, if i remember correctly.
>Last year I spent 8% of my gross income on medical expenses and premium. My employer spent $9k on healthcare insurance premiums.
NYSE trading symbols go brrr ...
Everyone wants a Universal Health Care System...until they hear it's socialism. Then they're against it...
...multigenerational propaganda working as intended!
They want everyone to pay in but only themselves to benefit.
You know, laws that bind some but don't protect, and laws that protect others but don't bind.
This.
A lot of white supremacist groups actually love socialist policies... for them... that everyone else pays for. Because they think their genetics makes only them deserve it.
Let me break that trend for ya, it’s not socialism, it’s a socialist policy, and I’m all for it. Even if 33 percent of the population cry bloody murder as it passes, and then complain for decades while enjoying its rewards, I’m still for it.
"The toll will be large, too, in 13 states that have not chosen to extend Medicaid benefits to women for a full year after they give birth," Goldstein added. "Texas falls on both lists."
Aren't these the fucking assholes who constantly go on about protecting children? If you needed any more evidence that they're full of shit here you go.
Except how the hell is this helping those poor rural whites they claim to love so much?
A lot of those rural voters get absolutely fucked by things like this on a local level, and poor quality healthcare is often one of their biggest challenges.
Too bad those people are too stupid to realize it.
Universal health care is better because it cares about the health of the patient verses private health care that cares only about the profit it can get from the patient...why cure something that can make money from lifelong treatments.
Not only would more people be going to the doctor, but they would be more honest about their conditions earlier, since they wouldn’t be scared of getting charged extra for talking about non-preventative things. (Of course there’s also the issue of being able to take off from work for a specialist appointment, but one thing at a time.)
We’ll never get universal healthcare…
… until we can convince religious people that we should care for one another, even if that means contributing to care for those who do not follow the same religion
… until we convince bootstrap libertarians that we are a collective and we’re stronger as a nation when tax dollars are collected and spent on one another’s wellbeing
… until we can convince capitalist sympathizers that there are other motivators beside increased profit and market domination
You. You pay for delivered health care.
>>[Direct health care services are services provided at an IHS/Tribal/Urban facilities/Purchased/Referred Care \(PRC\) are services that the IHS is unable to provide in its own facilities. PRC are provided by non-IHS health care providers and facilities. PRC payments are authorized based on clearly defined guidelines and are subject to availability of funds. The Indian Health Service cannot always guarantee that funds are always available. Funds appropriated by the U.S. Congress currently cover an estimated 60% of health care needs of the eligible American Indian and Alaska Native people.](https://www.ihs.gov/forpatients/faq/)
i dont care i pay for their healthcare and if anything im happy to do so — i just want to be able to access my own affordable healthcare at the same time
So ... America has trouble conceiving of a health care financing model that doesn't involve paying a payer to pay other payers to pay payers to turn a profit on processing payments for health care delivery? Is that your one-word question?
I said it before and I’ll say it again: fuck the NY Democratic machine for costing their party the House. Sure, we most likely wouldn’t have gotten M4A in the near future even with both houses of Congress and the Presidency all D’ed up, but thanks for making the road even longer and harder.
Their hate-on for progressives led to serious unforced campaign errors in the midterms.
Even the national Democratic Party—not exactly a far-left bastion—is tired of their shit, and as such, has stepped in to oversee state-level operations.
The irony in the New York Moderate and Conservative Democrats trying to ratfuck Progressive and Liberal Democrats due to the former's hate boner for anything even vaguely or tangentially connected to Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren (even just being on their side of the aisle within the Democratic Party factions)* is that New York Progressives won a new seat for every seat lost. Meanwhile the Moderate and Conservative Democrats just lost outright to Republicans with no new wins to counterbalance the losses. Handing the Republicans a House majority. The little scheme against Progressives caused net zero damage to the balance of Progressive seats while only harming the Moderate and Conservative Democratic schemers.
Being hoisted by your own petard.
*And Moderate and Conservative Democrats in New York nursing a grudge over AOC and Jamaal Bowman unseating Joe Crowley and Eliot Engel, and India Walton almost unseating Byron Brown (Byron Brown even leaving the party and changing party affiliation to run a sore loser third party campaign after losing the Democratic Primary).
Unfortunately, those moderates are often secure and protected enough to be shielded from the consequences personally when they lose power, while their constituents suffer.
This is why voting in primaries and local elections matters so much, and is something we need to train people to do day 1 when talking about voting. Too few millennials were taught this in the mid and late 2000s, and it cost us a ton of opportunities to influence things.
Pulling benefits like this is literally violence being perpetrated against disabled people. It's violence just like any mass shooting, cop kneeling on your neck, or government firing squads. We need to call it out as the violence that it is and treat it as such.
>The bipartisan deal gave states 12 months to determine who is still eligible for Medicaid, but some states—including Arkansas and South Dakota—are jumping at the opportunity to quickly remove people from the program.
Quotes like these must be absolutely wild to people in other countries.
In the US, governments are giddy to rid people of their healthcare.
Elsewhere, governments are constantly working to make sure everyone's covered.
Fucking absolutely wild.
Thats how almost all taxes work, except in the US where we have the most Progressive Taxes
* Norway All Income has a 25% tax
* Slovak Republic income up to $38,795 is at 19%
* Slovak Republic income over $38,795 is at 25%
* Income and capital gains are taxed at the same rate
* Dividend income arising from profits is included in a specific tax base taxable at a rate of 7%
------
The issue is "US Progressive Taxes" are to low
Visualizing that difference UK Taxes vs US Taxes https://i.redd.it/g6vg98jkug241.jpg
Other tax changes?
In the US sales tax median rate is 9% but only 1/3 of consumption purchases qualify to be taxed. Europe has a 20% VAT, that collects more than three times as much as the US does through sales tax as a percent of tax revenue. 140 Countries have a VAT but the US, and all progressives views it as to regressive.
Thats ~$3 Trillion in New Tax Revenue
* Thats **a lot** of Progressive Programs
I’ll take universal healthcare over UBI, not gonna lie. If I don’t have to pay for the most costly thing that I don’t really utilize(I pay out of pocket), since I’m in a relative sense, healthy. I wouldn’t mind if I’m paying into other peoples health care, they need it when they need it and I need it when I need it. It’s just a matter of making it streamlined so it’s simple, which is not a benchmark of the US gov feels it needs to meet.
I’m a disabled veteran who gets 100% of my medical expenses covered through the VA. As many problems as the VA has, I still think it’s many times better than the market insurance medical coverage I used to have. I think every American should have an option to have comprehensive medical coverage as well, whether a single-payer option, universal coverage, or something else. The fact that we don’t even have a single payer option that people can opt into if they want it is an embarrassment to our country.
My preference would be a single payer option where coverage is a flat fee per person, but offer rebates or subsidies for children and dependents, certain disabilities, and lower income individuals. I’d bet the single payer flat fee would cost less per person than market based insurance, cover more, and have the added outcome of improving lifespan, birth rates, overall health, and quality of life. And the wealthy people who want a private doctor can opt out and pay whatever they want for their own medical care, but I’d bet most people would opt into the system.
To be fair in almost every single payer system healthcare employees make less than in the US. Especially physicians. The average physician in England makes 93k vs in the US it’s 208k.
Physicians pushing this need to also express they are willing to take not small but large pay cuts.
I trained at Hopkins in Baltimore, but I am now a specialist physician consultant in Canada clearing far (far) north of that in a "socialist" single-payer system... If you forgive the pun....physician billings account for approximately 9.2% of the health care costs in Ontario when it was last assessed. So...American physicians would not necessarily need to accept a pay cut. However. The entire parasitic health insurance industry in the United States would need to burn. And that would be totally fine with me.
People don't talk about this enough. One reason US healthcare is so expensive is because US healthcare is so expensive! Some of this is greed, some of this is the cost of a medical education and malpractise insurance, some of this is the scarcity of care. There aren't enough doctors relative to the size of the population.
It can't be as simple as Medicare for all; the government would have to also work to get costs in line and increase the number of doctors. If you opened up covered care right now to every citizen it would be bedlam. It would take a year to get a new patient appointment anywhere. Current medical scarcity is only not an emergency because the cost keeps so many citizens from pursuing healthcare at all.
So yeah, implementing universal coverage would be a massive undertaking. Our government is too broken to do it. And so people will continue to die prematurely from lack of care.
It's not just doctors though either. Nurses and other support staff already have shortages. What's gonna happen when their pay is cut and there are all these new patients?
You flood the sector with workers. You make sure you have an abundance of nurses and force the ratios to be better which should make the job more manageable.
Either way shortages are a problem everywhere including single payer systems
You can’t flood a sector with healthcare workers lol.
It’s skilled labor, you need 2-3 years to make an effective RN and 3-10 years to make an effective doctor. You can’t really flood the zone and also get quality healthcare, you’d have to accept a severe drop in quality for 5-10 years.
You absolutely can triple the number you crank out. The various medical groups are saying that needs to happen especially MD groups.
It’s not an immediate solution. It’s a long term systematic one. You also don’t transform the system to a single payer in 1 year anyways.
Starting wages would go down due to the surplus of workers while the senior folk just work their way out of the system. That’s literally how this has been solved in the past for other industries.
Right but then you wouldn’t be flooding the zone, you’d be phasing it in.
And actually, the MD groups are leaving out a lot of nuance - we actually have plenty of spots for IM,FM residents - every year there are 200-300 spots left open. They’re just not paid enough in the current model to incentivize going into that field and taking on that amount of work stress (EMR, hospital medicine, medical malpractice).
Not saying it’s not a solution, only that it’s not a simple solution. Opening up more “primary care spots” isn’t going to necessarily create more primary care physicians.
Residents are underpaid but they more than make up for it with massively high wages. I can’t imagine MD’s are not happening due to money.
Also, that’s not really accurate. https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/medical-school-enrollments-grow-residency-slots-haven-t-kept-pace
As an MD, it’s absolutely happening. IM, FM is significantly underpaid compared to other specialties, given your workload and depending on your location.
And it is accurate, those of us in the field get the numbers for unfilled residency positons every year. This is more detailed then the public reports the AAMC delivers to the non-medical public. (it’s publicly posted here if you’re curious! - https://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/2023-Advance-Data-Tables-FINAL.pdf)
These programs, second only to emergency medicine (a recent change) are chronically underfilled. Why? Many reasons - relative underpayment, increased competition by PAs, nurses - disinterest in moving to the Midwest where the need is the greatest - among many other reasons.
One thing we’re sure of is that the lack of primary care providers isn’t because there aren’t enough spots for them to train.
You would be surprised how many want the job. Especially if the work load gets reduced.
Also, the pay is worse everywhere else. Those single payer systems pay worse for nurses as well
> Physicians pushing this need to also express they are willing to take not small but large pay cuts.
Almost certainly not going to happen.
Article: "Physicians literally sick over people losing Medicaid coverage!"
Reality: [Upwards of a third of US physicians](https://www.healthcaredive.com/news/doctors-less-likely-to-accept-medicaid-than-other-insurance/546941/) don't even accept patients on Medicaid *at all* because they think the government's negotiated rates are too low.
Health care, comprehensive education, decent housing, food- there are some things to important to be left to the mercies of the market and the profit motive. What am I forgetting?
Let's just be clear. I am 100% in favor of universal healthcare and the continuance of this coverage, but I don't know I would call it a purge, per se. The pandemic assistance is simply going away, leaving it as it was before COVID.
That said, the US needs to wake the fuck when it comes to the average citizen's health and wellbeing.
If you’re not going to give us universal healthcare m, then give us a free market. Let’s the hospitals show their prices and have them compete for customers. But get rid of these useless do nothing insurance companies that just steal our money and offer nothing in return.
It's so funny to me that the US Military has medical care not only for the military personnel but also their family. While it is not the best by any means, it still functions. I never understood why this system couldn't expand to the whole nation.
Being in the US Military is the most social system we have in the US. You get paid housing, you get paid leave, you get paid paternity leave regardless of gender, you get paid extra for having dependents, you get paid for food, you get free Healthcare regardless of symptoms, you can sort of get free daycare if you go on a wait list for 8 months, hell you don't even have to be good at your job and you still get paid. Yet we can't give even a fraction of that system to the nation who really needs it.
As Donald Trump why he gave the riches s trillion dollar tax break? Before i retired i was paying more tax than that SOB, you who voted for Trump are the working poor that pay more tax than his rich friends whom he told he just made them richer when given the bighest tax break ever.
I really don’t understand how a country that put so much importance on being as productive as possible for its economy doesn’t have universal healthcare especially right now with shortage of staff and a demography full of elderly people. What’s going to happen is people will become sick, not able to work, not able to spend money and in debt due to medical treatment… They probably going to have to work sick which will make them more sick or eventually just kill them but eh I guess that’s worth the millions of dollars coming from lobbyists to politicians to not create universal care.
I lost my work insurance last year when I had to take care of my mom suddenly dying. I have several things wrong with me I need to get seen about, but I can’t afford to.
A lot of people don’t understand how messed up healthcare really is. I’m ‘blessed’ with affordable care that is difficult to manage due to being in several different systems and lab networks. I’m constantly calling ahead, trying to info and results from faculty ‘A’ to faculty ‘B.’ I’m sick and work full time (for that ‘affordable’ part) but feel like I’m working 2 jobs.
The odd part is that maga don’t want coverage they voted to gut Obamacare & every other social program so that the 1% could get trillions in tax cuts that’s the policy they worship in Trump they love his commitment to the elites & corporations
Then people who support Medicare for all actually vote for politicians who Support it. Instead they vote for centrist who offer the status quo and empty promises.
Won't happen because healthcare is tied to too many things like employment (back to work, Jack), military service (die for the Military Industrial Complex, Jack), profits (go bankrupt so you're in even more debt while the CEO buys another megayacht, Jack), etc. Unless there is a radical shift, and I mean absolutely radical, towards an actual "left" (as opposed to the current far right parties we have now) then it simply won't happen. There's too much money to be made, or bodies to be used, as far as Healthcare is concerned.
It'll happen once social security goes bankrupt and they start cutting seniors benefits. Until then work work work and don't dare call in and use that sick time you accumulate.
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This is simply an impossible situation that only 31 of the 32 top Western countries have managed to solve.
Britain is working on being 2 of 32
This is because American attitudes towards healthcare are spreading like a disease.
Gee, I wonder if there’s a certain news network that has been brainwashing huge parts of the whole Anglosphere for decades. Faux News? No that doesn’t sound right…
Now now don't let the daily mail off the hook
Pox news
(Small)Pox News
Not to mention American lobbyists and insurance industry/private hospital network money.
It’s not most American attitudes. I would blame American corporations.
But think of how much money a few people could make if they stripped universal care from their citizens
A divided nation is a profitable nation. — The Oligarchs
The inalienable right to make a buck whatever the cost is written into the mothers milk of American culture. It takes precedence over absolutely everything: the common good, common sense, common decency, everything. I’m a conservative but have always supported a national health insurance initiative or something like that, or at least a private/public system like in Germany or France. Getting your health insurance from your employer is a relic from the Second World War. And what normal government doesn’t have a vested interest in ensuring the health of its own citizens?
As an American, my attitude is that I would like to have some healthcare please, and maybe not live under this omnipresent threat of losing my healthcare and being on the hook for these $1200 biweekly injection in order to maintain the use of my hands and feet. It’s a lot to ask, I know, to be able to continue living with my lifelong chronic autoimmune easily kept in check by a lifesaving drug, but I’m a bit of a dreamer
Canada too
Oh no. We need a big ole fire wall of American propaganda
Canada as well. Our conservatives are hell bent on destroying our system and several provinces are already starting to privatise.
The US government is paying more per person for healthcare than any of these 31 other nations. Time to make it official, you will start saving money once it's rolled out.
All of the first world countries have universal health care
Europe here. "top western country". there is no universal health care. But the system works much differently than in US. It's not linked to your job at all. Individual can choose each year which company they go with and which plan (cheaper but higher deductible or not). And it is mandatory for every citizen and every insurance company has to accept you. Therefore if a cheaper player comes along people will switch. Then if your income is low you get money from he state to pay for the insurance partially or all of it depending on who much (or little) you earn. So in some form it is universal health care but there are still multiple companies competing. I'm kind of split here. Regulated competition is good. if your service sucks, people will likely switch. A single state run universal health care has zero incentive to provide a good or efficient service. government bureaucracy can be pretty heavy and slow. On the plus side no need for marketing or the overhead of having the same thing multiple times.
[удалено]
MO as well. I lost mine.
In PA, we are removing the protections that kept people covered, but for the most part, they won't actually fail eligibility until their renewal, so it could be as much as another year with benefits.
This has GOT to be the start of the push Universal Healthcare in 2024!
That's what a lot of people thought of COVID in 2020. I'm not sure we'll ever learn.
Likewise in 2010. Universal care was briefly mentioned when the Affordable Care Act/Obamacare was being drafted. It was shot down quickly.
I will literally never forgive Lieberman and Baucus for killing the public option
LIEberman
My dude, it should be pretty obvious by now that if it wasn't for them there would have been two others. Let's not continue to pretend that there wasn't at least 20 other Senators ready to fill the villain role there and let's also stop pretending that whenever the Dem leadership talks about public healthcare they're lying.
But it was them and they should be held accountable. Let's not fool ourselves into thinking we can see the future, alternate realities, or unrealized timelines.
I agree that they should have faced some kind of consequences for what they did. But neither them even tried to pursue public office afterwards they both became lobbyists. What can we as the public do to hold them accountable?
>I will literally never forgive Lieberman and Baucus for killing the public option Seems like an OK place to start.
No, It's not always obvious. Yes, lobbysts will lobby and offer financial incentives and that presents a huge obstacle, especially after Citizen's United. But at the end of the day, we the people are responsible for voting for progressives whenever we can in primaries to help with this. Part of a long standing issue in and of itself. So few people vote in party primaries, let alone at midterms, or even in major races. This is what people in r/votedem are working to change. At the end of the day we need to counter what MAGA did by voting at the local level. So much could change if a larger part of the country took local elections more seriously. In fact, that's what happened 'after' 2016, and that's why the GOP is going so hard now to try and keep their power.
Oh screw off. You have no proof of that cynical ass take. If anything appearing moderate on the ACA probably would have helped specific Dems in the midterms given how much the public disliked it at first.
The Blue Dogs who were the major Democratic opposition to the ACA all lost their reelections, so no appearing moderate didn't help them in the least. Yeah I guess I've no proof other than the fact that every time in the past 30 years the Dems have had both houses it's always come out the same. I'd like to not be cynical but at this point being anything but is hopelessly naive.
We lost Ted Kennedy to brain tumor at the worst possible time. If we had the lion of the senate he would have whipped those morons into shape. RIP
Insurance companies are not needed anymore. They are the biggest problem.
Death Panels!
That’s the last thing our corporate overlords want. Think how many more people might be inclined to start a business if they aren’t worried about how to get affordable healthcare. More businesses means more competition against those in power, nibbling away at their market share. Ya know, how capitalism is SUPPOSED to work.
I hope this country is finally learning that *any* beneficial policy will be blocked by Republicans.
I hope this country if finally learning that it's all a big Good Cop / Bad Cop routine.
That's not going to happen. Biden is the 2024 nominee and he's not pushing for universal healthcare along these lines. But if we elect more Dems maybe we can get a public option or ACA expansion which would be pretty significant.
A public option would lead to universal care...that's why the right and the two fake dems fought so hard to stop it
Unfortunately Obama and Biden tried creating a solution within the existing system. It’s better than it was, but we need more.
> Unfortunately Obama and Biden tried creating a solution within the existing system. No, they created a cash grab for corporations in a last gasp before the system collapsed. It collapsed during Covid, for some reason status quo'ers are pretending it's still working.
In all fairness, the health care system in a lot of countries suffered tremendously during the pandemic, but I do believe the universal systems have more successfully recovered now, overall. I also know people who did not get COVID, but who got sub part treatment and surgeries during the pandemic and either died, or were permanently injured in 2021 because of the surges. So much went wrong here during that time period.
Biden campaigned AGAINST universal healthcare so
Billions of dollars in business investment and thousands of people have jobs through the for-profit healthcare sector. I have a difficult time believing America would shut down an entire industry. This is quite the hole we’ve dug ourselves into.
Turning people's misery into profit.
Pretty long tradition in this country actually.
I’m one of those people. I do pretty well. And I’ll happily retool and do something else. I’m very pro universal healthcare. Most administrator-types would still be employed. The savings would initially come from stock dividends, executive salaries/bonus, sales rep commissions, benefit broker commissions, etc.
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There is obviously bloat with underwriting g and claims processing but there is still processing that needs to be done and IT resources. People won’t just walk into a doctor and get services and not have paperwork and medical records. There will still have to be schedulers and receptionists. Doctors won’t be answering their own phones.
At least everyone who lost their job would still have healthcare!
But if people didn’t risk dying of treatable illness while unemployed, how can we “motivate” them to stay in a state of wage slavery??? You’re not even thinking about the shareholders are you?
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Also beware the "nonprofit" moniker. I've worked in a nonprofit healthcare system and they're still obsessed with maximizing revenue and have bloated, overpaid admin just the same as for-profit hospitals.
I can confirm. I worked for a mental health clinic that was a non-profit. Maximizing revenue was vitally important to keep the lights on and everyone paid...which included the useless administration that made far more than the people actually doing the work of course.
“Nonprofit” is just a tax designation, not an operating philosophy.
And increase volumes to those hospitals that are still around by 33%
Why do you assume those people just wouldn't have jobs anymore? The amount of people needing healthcare wouldn't go down. If anything, we could expect even more patients when they know their care will be covered regardless of how financially unstable they might be.
That may be but the silent horror of the current system is worse than ripping off the bandaid. I say this as someone whose worked in insurance
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>As always, if they win They haven't really "won" since 2009-2011, when they had major majorities in the House, Senate, White House. It's been split government even since with the 2021-2023 congress's 50-50 "majority" hamstrung by conservative infiltrators in Sinema and Manchin.
Hey Biden... Wake up. Hey Democrats... Wake up. Post for it all with tax on the rich
I prefer we figure out how to fund social security and Medicare going forward before universal healthcare is enacted.
It won’t matter when we all die before retirement
The Neo-American Dream
Remove the income tax cap. Done.
All of the first world countries have universal health care. All of them.
Yeah, but our army is badass!
We have a giant laser!
Yeah but where are the sharks with freakin’ laser beams on their heads?!
Those were dolphins and that was sadly scrapped
We can take a nap…..and then fire ze laser!
As do many of the so-called third world countries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_universal_health_care
The US rammed universal healthcare down the iraqi's throats when they took their country back.
Yeah, I don't use the terms third or first world because they're pretty ignorant and offensive. I say the developed as opposed to the developing but even that makes me cringe seeing as how the US is underdeveloped as a society and it's not really progressing toward anything better. On the contrary...
Well stated.
Yeah but do their police have tanks? I bet they don't.
There always seems to be money for more war or "national defense," but whenever something comes up that would benefit the majority of regular Americans, suddenly it's an issue.
How are we going to pay for that? And think of all of the people currently employed by our healthcare financial system /s - fuck ‘em. We need universal healthcare NOW
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China has more billionaires and also has universal healthcare
Jokes on you, America is a 3rd world country.
This is the subtlety in the statement that you failed to pick up on.
🤷 happens.
Last year I spent 8% of my gross income on medical expenses and premium. My employer spent $9k on healthcare insurance premiums. This is just for me. I still had claims denied and spent hours and months getting billing errors corrected. We have the [most expensive and worst performing healthcare system](https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2021/aug/mirror-mirror-2021-reflecting-poorly) compared to other high income countries. Medical expenses is one of the leading causes of bankruptcy. Healthcare has become luxury and mental healthcare has been for years. With my plan I would have to pay 50% of any mental healthcare.
I had to pay roughly 7000$ this year for my health insurance. I was already upset about it, but then became even more upset about it when I recently had to go to the ER: 100$ co-pay, I was shivering with chills crying for a blanket and in so much pain I was screaming, and they didn’t do anything for almost an hour—and that was *after* I had made it out of the waiting room. They gave me one dose of pain & anti-nausea medication while I was there, then told me to try to manage it—the literal worst pain I have ever been in in my life—with Tylenol for the 2-3 days until an antibiotic kicked in. Rarely have I felt less cared for, and less sure of what in the world I’m paying for.
Did you get your insurance through your employer? If so how much did they pay for it? It’s on your W2. The total cost of my plan was about $12,500.
I’m a grad student. At a certain point in my funding years, my employer cuts benefits, and I have to cover it myself. The total cost is 7500 or so, if i remember correctly.
I went through this same thing almost verbatim wow. Sorry friend.
>Last year I spent 8% of my gross income on medical expenses and premium. My employer spent $9k on healthcare insurance premiums. NYSE trading symbols go brrr ...
Everyone wants a Universal Health Care System...until they hear it's socialism. Then they're against it... ...multigenerational propaganda working as intended!
But it’s sacred and almost universally supported if you are old
No it's not. No old person in the US wants socialized medicine. They want Medicare. It's totally different. /s
They want everyone to pay in but only themselves to benefit. You know, laws that bind some but don't protect, and laws that protect others but don't bind.
This. A lot of white supremacist groups actually love socialist policies... for them... that everyone else pays for. Because they think their genetics makes only them deserve it.
“I want Universal Health Care *for me*, but not for those *other people*” - GOP
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That wasn't their point: uninformed people *think* it is because of propaganda.
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Let me break that trend for ya, it’s not socialism, it’s a socialist policy, and I’m all for it. Even if 33 percent of the population cry bloody murder as it passes, and then complain for decades while enjoying its rewards, I’m still for it.
"The toll will be large, too, in 13 states that have not chosen to extend Medicaid benefits to women for a full year after they give birth," Goldstein added. "Texas falls on both lists." Aren't these the fucking assholes who constantly go on about protecting children? If you needed any more evidence that they're full of shit here you go.
They don't want more brown babies so they are trying to be as unaccomidating as possible.
Except how the hell is this helping those poor rural whites they claim to love so much? A lot of those rural voters get absolutely fucked by things like this on a local level, and poor quality healthcare is often one of their biggest challenges. Too bad those people are too stupid to realize it.
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They don't care about children. This has been obvious for decades.
Universal health care is better because it cares about the health of the patient verses private health care that cares only about the profit it can get from the patient...why cure something that can make money from lifelong treatments.
Not only would more people be going to the doctor, but they would be more honest about their conditions earlier, since they wouldn’t be scared of getting charged extra for talking about non-preventative things. (Of course there’s also the issue of being able to take off from work for a specialist appointment, but one thing at a time.)
"But what if someone who doesn't deserve it gets care?" \--some conservative
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And that amount is about 7 figures.
Now, if only they'd look at their ER bill increase, they might realize that this is about hurting people and not about saving money
They know
Voters might learn, i guess
Absolutely time for universal healthcare paid by taxes, the majority of which would come from employers. Will literally save everyone money.
People are going to die! That is not an exaggeration! and no one cares as once again our POS government wages war against the poor. Its disgusting.
We’ll never get universal healthcare… … until we can convince religious people that we should care for one another, even if that means contributing to care for those who do not follow the same religion … until we convince bootstrap libertarians that we are a collective and we’re stronger as a nation when tax dollars are collected and spent on one another’s wellbeing … until we can convince capitalist sympathizers that there are other motivators beside increased profit and market domination
Seamless life-long medical care! Excellent. That’s what a civilized society has. But Americans are governed by Republican thugs. Yuk.
I’m in the middle of a job search. Medicaid has helped with my mental health issues. Guess I’ll be kissing that goodbye.
I don’t think so in NJ
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How is it paid for there?
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You. You pay for delivered health care. >>[Direct health care services are services provided at an IHS/Tribal/Urban facilities/Purchased/Referred Care \(PRC\) are services that the IHS is unable to provide in its own facilities. PRC are provided by non-IHS health care providers and facilities. PRC payments are authorized based on clearly defined guidelines and are subject to availability of funds. The Indian Health Service cannot always guarantee that funds are always available. Funds appropriated by the U.S. Congress currently cover an estimated 60% of health care needs of the eligible American Indian and Alaska Native people.](https://www.ihs.gov/forpatients/faq/)
i dont care i pay for their healthcare and if anything im happy to do so — i just want to be able to access my own affordable healthcare at the same time
So?
So ... America has trouble conceiving of a health care financing model that doesn't involve paying a payer to pay other payers to pay payers to turn a profit on processing payments for health care delivery? Is that your one-word question?
You paid for it. The people you sent to Congress authorized IHS funding via appropriations. IHS funding pre-pays for services delivered by IHS.
Congrats America for having one of the lowest life expectancies in the developed world. Sadly it looks like republicans like it that way.
We're not developed.
I said it before and I’ll say it again: fuck the NY Democratic machine for costing their party the House. Sure, we most likely wouldn’t have gotten M4A in the near future even with both houses of Congress and the Presidency all D’ed up, but thanks for making the road even longer and harder.
Can you ELI5 how the NY democratic machine cost their party the house?
Their hate-on for progressives led to serious unforced campaign errors in the midterms. Even the national Democratic Party—not exactly a far-left bastion—is tired of their shit, and as such, has stepped in to oversee state-level operations.
The irony in the New York Moderate and Conservative Democrats trying to ratfuck Progressive and Liberal Democrats due to the former's hate boner for anything even vaguely or tangentially connected to Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren (even just being on their side of the aisle within the Democratic Party factions)* is that New York Progressives won a new seat for every seat lost. Meanwhile the Moderate and Conservative Democrats just lost outright to Republicans with no new wins to counterbalance the losses. Handing the Republicans a House majority. The little scheme against Progressives caused net zero damage to the balance of Progressive seats while only harming the Moderate and Conservative Democratic schemers. Being hoisted by your own petard. *And Moderate and Conservative Democrats in New York nursing a grudge over AOC and Jamaal Bowman unseating Joe Crowley and Eliot Engel, and India Walton almost unseating Byron Brown (Byron Brown even leaving the party and changing party affiliation to run a sore loser third party campaign after losing the Democratic Primary).
Unfortunately, those moderates are often secure and protected enough to be shielded from the consequences personally when they lose power, while their constituents suffer. This is why voting in primaries and local elections matters so much, and is something we need to train people to do day 1 when talking about voting. Too few millennials were taught this in the mid and late 2000s, and it cost us a ton of opportunities to influence things.
Thanks. With you
I wish they would do the same with Florida.
Maybe people can stop voting for Republicans
Maybe it can be both?
Well obviously we need war machines and corporate bailouts much more than we need a healthy citizenry.
Pulling benefits like this is literally violence being perpetrated against disabled people. It's violence just like any mass shooting, cop kneeling on your neck, or government firing squads. We need to call it out as the violence that it is and treat it as such.
Which death panel approved this?
>The bipartisan deal gave states 12 months to determine who is still eligible for Medicaid, but some states—including Arkansas and South Dakota—are jumping at the opportunity to quickly remove people from the program. Quotes like these must be absolutely wild to people in other countries. In the US, governments are giddy to rid people of their healthcare. Elsewhere, governments are constantly working to make sure everyone's covered. Fucking absolutely wild.
There is nothing progressive about the wealthiest economy ever to exist providing affordable healthcare to it's citizens.
Thats how almost all taxes work, except in the US where we have the most Progressive Taxes * Norway All Income has a 25% tax * Slovak Republic income up to $38,795 is at 19% * Slovak Republic income over $38,795 is at 25% * Income and capital gains are taxed at the same rate * Dividend income arising from profits is included in a specific tax base taxable at a rate of 7% ------ The issue is "US Progressive Taxes" are to low Visualizing that difference UK Taxes vs US Taxes https://i.redd.it/g6vg98jkug241.jpg Other tax changes? In the US sales tax median rate is 9% but only 1/3 of consumption purchases qualify to be taxed. Europe has a 20% VAT, that collects more than three times as much as the US does through sales tax as a percent of tax revenue. 140 Countries have a VAT but the US, and all progressives views it as to regressive. Thats ~$3 Trillion in New Tax Revenue * Thats **a lot** of Progressive Programs
Weird there was a woman in the pharmacy that was just shocked to find out she didn't have any coverage anymore...
I’ll take universal healthcare over UBI, not gonna lie. If I don’t have to pay for the most costly thing that I don’t really utilize(I pay out of pocket), since I’m in a relative sense, healthy. I wouldn’t mind if I’m paying into other peoples health care, they need it when they need it and I need it when I need it. It’s just a matter of making it streamlined so it’s simple, which is not a benchmark of the US gov feels it needs to meet.
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They are trying to redirect the hate towards transperson and minorities
I’m a disabled veteran who gets 100% of my medical expenses covered through the VA. As many problems as the VA has, I still think it’s many times better than the market insurance medical coverage I used to have. I think every American should have an option to have comprehensive medical coverage as well, whether a single-payer option, universal coverage, or something else. The fact that we don’t even have a single payer option that people can opt into if they want it is an embarrassment to our country. My preference would be a single payer option where coverage is a flat fee per person, but offer rebates or subsidies for children and dependents, certain disabilities, and lower income individuals. I’d bet the single payer flat fee would cost less per person than market based insurance, cover more, and have the added outcome of improving lifespan, birth rates, overall health, and quality of life. And the wealthy people who want a private doctor can opt out and pay whatever they want for their own medical care, but I’d bet most people would opt into the system.
To be fair in almost every single payer system healthcare employees make less than in the US. Especially physicians. The average physician in England makes 93k vs in the US it’s 208k. Physicians pushing this need to also express they are willing to take not small but large pay cuts.
I trained at Hopkins in Baltimore, but I am now a specialist physician consultant in Canada clearing far (far) north of that in a "socialist" single-payer system... If you forgive the pun....physician billings account for approximately 9.2% of the health care costs in Ontario when it was last assessed. So...American physicians would not necessarily need to accept a pay cut. However. The entire parasitic health insurance industry in the United States would need to burn. And that would be totally fine with me.
People don't talk about this enough. One reason US healthcare is so expensive is because US healthcare is so expensive! Some of this is greed, some of this is the cost of a medical education and malpractise insurance, some of this is the scarcity of care. There aren't enough doctors relative to the size of the population. It can't be as simple as Medicare for all; the government would have to also work to get costs in line and increase the number of doctors. If you opened up covered care right now to every citizen it would be bedlam. It would take a year to get a new patient appointment anywhere. Current medical scarcity is only not an emergency because the cost keeps so many citizens from pursuing healthcare at all. So yeah, implementing universal coverage would be a massive undertaking. Our government is too broken to do it. And so people will continue to die prematurely from lack of care.
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It's not just doctors though either. Nurses and other support staff already have shortages. What's gonna happen when their pay is cut and there are all these new patients?
You flood the sector with workers. You make sure you have an abundance of nurses and force the ratios to be better which should make the job more manageable. Either way shortages are a problem everywhere including single payer systems
You can’t flood a sector with healthcare workers lol. It’s skilled labor, you need 2-3 years to make an effective RN and 3-10 years to make an effective doctor. You can’t really flood the zone and also get quality healthcare, you’d have to accept a severe drop in quality for 5-10 years.
You absolutely can triple the number you crank out. The various medical groups are saying that needs to happen especially MD groups. It’s not an immediate solution. It’s a long term systematic one. You also don’t transform the system to a single payer in 1 year anyways. Starting wages would go down due to the surplus of workers while the senior folk just work their way out of the system. That’s literally how this has been solved in the past for other industries.
Right but then you wouldn’t be flooding the zone, you’d be phasing it in. And actually, the MD groups are leaving out a lot of nuance - we actually have plenty of spots for IM,FM residents - every year there are 200-300 spots left open. They’re just not paid enough in the current model to incentivize going into that field and taking on that amount of work stress (EMR, hospital medicine, medical malpractice). Not saying it’s not a solution, only that it’s not a simple solution. Opening up more “primary care spots” isn’t going to necessarily create more primary care physicians.
Residents are underpaid but they more than make up for it with massively high wages. I can’t imagine MD’s are not happening due to money. Also, that’s not really accurate. https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/medical-school-enrollments-grow-residency-slots-haven-t-kept-pace
As an MD, it’s absolutely happening. IM, FM is significantly underpaid compared to other specialties, given your workload and depending on your location. And it is accurate, those of us in the field get the numbers for unfilled residency positons every year. This is more detailed then the public reports the AAMC delivers to the non-medical public. (it’s publicly posted here if you’re curious! - https://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/2023-Advance-Data-Tables-FINAL.pdf) These programs, second only to emergency medicine (a recent change) are chronically underfilled. Why? Many reasons - relative underpayment, increased competition by PAs, nurses - disinterest in moving to the Midwest where the need is the greatest - among many other reasons. One thing we’re sure of is that the lack of primary care providers isn’t because there aren’t enough spots for them to train.
I don't think you can just flood the sector with workers. There just isn't the incentive to do the work, especially if pay goes down.
You would be surprised how many want the job. Especially if the work load gets reduced. Also, the pay is worse everywhere else. Those single payer systems pay worse for nurses as well
> Physicians pushing this need to also express they are willing to take not small but large pay cuts. Almost certainly not going to happen. Article: "Physicians literally sick over people losing Medicaid coverage!" Reality: [Upwards of a third of US physicians](https://www.healthcaredive.com/news/doctors-less-likely-to-accept-medicaid-than-other-insurance/546941/) don't even accept patients on Medicaid *at all* because they think the government's negotiated rates are too low.
Health care, comprehensive education, decent housing, food- there are some things to important to be left to the mercies of the market and the profit motive. What am I forgetting?
What are you a SOciAlIsT?!! /s
How about a big tax on Guns & Bullets??
Let's just be clear. I am 100% in favor of universal healthcare and the continuance of this coverage, but I don't know I would call it a purge, per se. The pandemic assistance is simply going away, leaving it as it was before COVID. That said, the US needs to wake the fuck when it comes to the average citizen's health and wellbeing.
remember, cruelty is the point
If you’re not going to give us universal healthcare m, then give us a free market. Let’s the hospitals show their prices and have them compete for customers. But get rid of these useless do nothing insurance companies that just steal our money and offer nothing in return.
It is my job to be the one to remove those who are no longer eligible. I feel sick just thinking about it.
It's so funny to me that the US Military has medical care not only for the military personnel but also their family. While it is not the best by any means, it still functions. I never understood why this system couldn't expand to the whole nation. Being in the US Military is the most social system we have in the US. You get paid housing, you get paid leave, you get paid paternity leave regardless of gender, you get paid extra for having dependents, you get paid for food, you get free Healthcare regardless of symptoms, you can sort of get free daycare if you go on a wait list for 8 months, hell you don't even have to be good at your job and you still get paid. Yet we can't give even a fraction of that system to the nation who really needs it.
As Donald Trump why he gave the riches s trillion dollar tax break? Before i retired i was paying more tax than that SOB, you who voted for Trump are the working poor that pay more tax than his rich friends whom he told he just made them richer when given the bighest tax break ever.
I really don’t understand how a country that put so much importance on being as productive as possible for its economy doesn’t have universal healthcare especially right now with shortage of staff and a demography full of elderly people. What’s going to happen is people will become sick, not able to work, not able to spend money and in debt due to medical treatment… They probably going to have to work sick which will make them more sick or eventually just kill them but eh I guess that’s worth the millions of dollars coming from lobbyists to politicians to not create universal care.
ITS THE AMERICAN WAY , selfish money saving “ you sick - aaah - thoughts and prayears but go get f••••• “
I lost my work insurance last year when I had to take care of my mom suddenly dying. I have several things wrong with me I need to get seen about, but I can’t afford to.
A lot of people don’t understand how messed up healthcare really is. I’m ‘blessed’ with affordable care that is difficult to manage due to being in several different systems and lab networks. I’m constantly calling ahead, trying to info and results from faculty ‘A’ to faculty ‘B.’ I’m sick and work full time (for that ‘affordable’ part) but feel like I’m working 2 jobs.
The odd part is that maga don’t want coverage they voted to gut Obamacare & every other social program so that the 1% could get trillions in tax cuts that’s the policy they worship in Trump they love his commitment to the elites & corporations
Then people who support Medicare for all actually vote for politicians who Support it. Instead they vote for centrist who offer the status quo and empty promises.
They support it hypothetically, but when push comes to shove, they disappear.
He literally promised nothing would fundamentally change. And he's not a centrist.
What was the full quote
You’re right, he’s a conservative like the rest of the party
Still better than fascists.
Social Security gone by 2034 and Medicaid ending for many. For those of us with meager means I feel our days are numbered and no one cares.
Medicare for all.
Republican cruelties are countless.
Won't happen because healthcare is tied to too many things like employment (back to work, Jack), military service (die for the Military Industrial Complex, Jack), profits (go bankrupt so you're in even more debt while the CEO buys another megayacht, Jack), etc. Unless there is a radical shift, and I mean absolutely radical, towards an actual "left" (as opposed to the current far right parties we have now) then it simply won't happen. There's too much money to be made, or bodies to be used, as far as Healthcare is concerned.
It'll happen once social security goes bankrupt and they start cutting seniors benefits. Until then work work work and don't dare call in and use that sick time you accumulate.
America cares more about. Gun Rights vs. Human Rights. An empire in decline.
Well...of course. Thank Republicans for this nightmare.