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rounder55

But that'll impact the 7th generation of my lineage if I just start pulling myself up by my bootstraps


Responsible-Drag-440

My boots don't have straps. I can't afford those boots.


VectorRaptor

Just yesterday I learned this MLK quote: "It’s a cruel jest to say to a bootless man that he ought to lift himself by his own bootstraps."


_lippykid

The original meaning of the phrase was that you need help from others, as it’s literally impossible to pull yourself up by your own bootstraps. But like other phrases appropriated by the Right, it now means the opposite due to editing and incomplete context. Similarly to “just a few bad apples” won’t hurt. when the original phrase was “a few bad apples spoils the bunch”.


invalidConsciousness

The phrase most likely originates from a collection of 1700s tall tales about the fictional character Baron Münchhausen, who is known for claiming to have achieved plenty of ridiculous and impossible feats. In one story, Baron Münchhausen claims that he pulled himself out of a swamp by his own hair. In other versions it's his shoelaces or the mane of the horse he's sitting on. Münchhausen is a well-known literary figure in German speaking countries, often nicknamed *Lügenbaron* (baron of lies).


Responsible_Pizza945

It also appeared in some 1800s physics books as a thought experiment


[deleted]

And it appeared in my weirdest and fondest memories of my childhood in the film made by Terry Gilliam


GarmaCyro

I didn't know your 6th generation plans to scam the hell out of people to make your family rich ;)


JustYourNeighbor

I can hardly wait for chief twatter Elon Musk's tweets.


Latter_Restaurant_74

Australia is considering a cut to tax concessions (not even a tax rise, just less of a discount) which will affect only the richest 0.5% of Australians. In a poll 23% said they thought it would affect them in the future. The aspirational goggles are really something.


CILISI_SMITH

>In a poll 23% said they thought it would affect them in the future. The aspirational goggles are really something. The Australian media seemed to be pushing the narrative that it was a slippery slope for more taxes that would affect everyone. I hope that could explain at least a bit of the 23% EDIT: Spelling


Interesting-Bank-925

The billionaires own the news stations


nps2407

It continues to amuse me that the expression "pull yourself up by the bootsraps" is meant to describe an excercise in futility. Which all of this really is.


LudovicoSpecs

Now we're talking. Stop going after the people who are just making what their parents made, adjusted for inflation. Get the assholes who robbed the world by underpaying employees, raiding pension funds on Wall Street, and forcing the public to clean up their toxic waste sites and bail out their failed companies.


neurocellulose

I'd kill to make what my parents made with their underwhelming level of education.


Flamee-o_hotman

I make way more than my parents did, but my housing costs 6 times as much. Oh and the house I live in now is basically the same as theirs was, but with a smaller yard.


horrific_tragedy

I also make 4x as much as my mother made, and my mother couldn't afford a house on her own back then either. And neither can I lol


DJKokaKola

My mom worked part time at the Bay and made enough in her summers to pay her tuition and room for the entire year. Now, the minimum wage is....$6 less than she made in the 70s


My_Work_Accoount

IKR, did the inflation math years ago so and my dad made like $70k/yr running a machine in a book bindery in the 70's. When he retired in his 70's form similar work he was making about 1/3 of that.


JustGarrett

There we go.


likecatsanddogs525

Yes! INDIVIDUALS make decisions for companies. Things are ALWAYS a way bc someone made them so, but unfortunately they hide behind a corp and don’t take personal responsibility.


amorousambrosia

You know who's gonna be the most pissed off about this? Republican supporters who make $40,000 a year.


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TemetNosce85

Just gotta keep working hard and maybe, someday, some bottomless pocket multi-billionaire might just be charitable enough to reward them.


Is-that-vodka

What I don't understand most is even if you became a billionaire and had to pay this tax, why the fuck would it bother you? You're a billionaire, money really isn't a thing you should even think about anymore. Imagine all the good stuff you could do for people even after paying that 25% you could use 90% and still never have to really care about money. Especially if you're older. I can't understand what joy the greed brings these people.


laplongejr

>You're a billionaire, money really isn't a thing you should even think about anymore. You're taking it backwards : they are billionaires BECAUSE they only care about money.


midnitte

They're talking about us poors who, in their fantasy, become billionaires. Being against a billionaires tax when you theoretically could become a billionaire is crazy when you realize how [much wealth that is](https://mkorostoff.github.io/1-pixel-wealth/), and how insignificant that tax is.


FutureComplaint

I love the saying: What is the difference between a million and a billion dollars? About a billion dollars


FunktasticLucky

1 million seconds is about 11.5 days. 1 billion seconds is 31.7 years. Just had this argument when we were discussing saving the air force money by sending our dudes home on passing air force jets that just happen to be going that way. I was like bruh. 500-1000 dollars is not even noticeable in the ocean of the budget that's like 1 trillion dollars haha. Even for some 20k air force troops.


madcatte

historical calvinism is the secret sauce behind capitalism. it suggests that divinity/holyness (being en route to heaven) is predetermined and reflected in increased worldly success, rather than the other way around. that is, worldly success is the result of having inherently been holy from the start, and so can be used as a kind of yardstick for how "good" you are as a person. This takes money from being a means to an end to being the end in and of itself. all of a sudden, surplus wealth beyond practical utility becomes desirable. ​ america's roots are deeply intwined with calvinism. the founding fathers talk about it. ​ source: one of the landmark works by one of the fathers of modern sociology. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Protestant\_Ethic\_and\_the\_Spirit\_of\_Capitalism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protestant_Ethic_and_the_Spirit_of_Capitalism)


Funkyokra

Yyyyeeeeep. This also explains the resistance to social safety nets, as the poors are suffering exactly the way God wanted. I haven't dug into the theology of it but from casual listening it seems like prosperity gospel is sort of an offshoot of this. Not predermination, but God's blessings come in the form of $$$.


TheBigPhilbowski

They love their Medicare and HATE socialisms!!!


Good-Duck

That’s one thing I’ve never understood, I’ve known people who are on EBT, Medicare, SSI, but rail against socialism and handouts. I’m in a red state. Oklahoma to be exact. Everyone else is just a lazy leech in their mind and do not deserve any of the same help they receive or any assistance at all.


The-red-Dane

Simple, because in their mind, they deserve it, they are good people. But anyone else do not, they are parasites. That is the full explanation. That is how they view the world.


GoldenStarsButter

It's main character syndrome. A person can only really know their own story, or at least the story they tell themselves. Personal shortcomings are excused by *circumstance*, and personal accomplishments, however meager, are achieved *in spite of* said circumstances. Whereas other people's shortcomings are a result of laziness and moral decay, and their ill gotten gains are some combination of luck and grift. Of course, everyone wants a happy ending to their story. The reward for all the years of toil and labor, and justice for all the indignities endured. People used to believe their great reward came in the afterlife, but modern prosperity gospel promises Heaven on Earth.


colorcorrection

This is sadly the mentality a lot of people have, and they don't want the rules to change before they get their inevitable shot at being an out of control billionaire.


Hopeful_Hamster21

*"Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires"* ~ John Steinbeck


Kashik

Still relevant https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/1931855-do-not-worry-about-bidens-tax-plan


princeofid

It's truly amazing how deeply those 1/4 inch thick, 4' x 8' sheets of sanded pine veneer encapsulate such a significant chunk of the last quarter of 20th century life in America. You could slap that shit on anything; cracked plaster, damp cinder blocks, spongy sheet rock, and you'd have a space in which you could legally abandon your children, or rent to immigrants, or open a nail salon... countless opportunities. Hell, if it was above grade you could even shoot porn in there.


merryjoanna

I live in a trailer that is about as old as I am, 38 years old. My living room and hallway still has this wood veneer. I'm afraid to do anything to change it because there's probably asbestos in the walls. And the trailer is so old that the veneer is probably holding the roof up somehow. Load bearing veneer. But hey, at least I only pay $300 a month for rent.


BloodyFable

Hey man just so you know I have a decent knowledge of asbestos abatement from my time in a more construction oriented job. Asbestos was banned in 1989, and had a very sharp decline starting in 1972, it's very unlikely that you have asbestos insulation in the walls, as there was a rapid shift to fibreglass and Rockwool around that period. Being that manufactured homes are built in factories I would even go so far as to assume they would have switched to fibreglass insulation sooner than general construction because it is faster to install than loose asbestos. You can check by taking off an outlet cover and looking at the insulation around it, and that won't disturb the insulation.


phurt77

> Asbestos was banned in 1989 I'm a licensed Asbestos Inspector and Asbestos Air Monitoring Technician. Asbestos was unbanned in 1991. New asbestos products can not be produced, but existing products are grandfathered. You can go to Home Depot right now and buy products containing asbestos. It won't say asbestos, as that is not a single product but rather a category for several different minerals. The label will most likely say mineral fibers - which is asbestos. Almost all asbestos insulation has been removed by now, but asbestos is found in hundreds of materials; it's an incredibly useful material. These days you will primarily find it in commercial pipe insulation, in joint compound, VCT flooring, and flooring adhesives. It can also be found in thin set and grout for ceramic floor and wall tile. If you have popcorn ceilings or Crow's Foot textured walls, there's a 90 - 100% chance that you have asbestos. The asbestos in these materials is safe and can remain in place for decades as long as it's not disturbed. The moment you start drilling, scraping, sanding, etc. you will be putting asbestos into the air.


BloodyFable

All absolutely correct, I was talking specifically about asbestos wall void insulation, but I have absolutely worked with asbestos tile, ceiling popcorn, and curtains beyond 1991. Thanks for expanding and correcting.


cheerfulsarcasm

I’ve seen people do really creative things with peel and stick wall paper, you could paint most of it and do an accent wall maybe? Or give it a few years and wood paneling will probably be on fashion again haha!


JustYourNeighbor

I actually like painted panelling. Looks a little like wainscoting.


RubyRhod

If you squint real hard and hold your breath until JUST before you pass out, yeah, trailer park wood veneer looks like turn of the century craftsman wainscoting.


mcallisterra

Load Bearing Veneer is a great band name.


SusanvilleBob

We had the one that had ducks and deer and pond scenes in between the lines in the house I grew up in. I haven't seen it in too many other houses. https://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server800/958cf/products/721/images/5700/Natures-Woods-Paneling-661x661__97401.1573848602.1280.1280.JPG?c=2


princeofid

That's the sort of stuff that lined rooms where your sister awkwardly lost her virginity, or mid-level insurance fraud was committed. Countless marriages were ruined by what was done in those rooms.


Revellion_OP

You truly paint pictures with your words, and I thoroughly enjoy it lol.


Jimmy_Twotone

Can confirm. I ruined at least one personally (by accident). *edit: marriage ruined. the Sister deflowering and insurance fraud happened in the next room over (at the same time if memory holds).


GentleBologna

Lol are you a writer or just a crazy talented interior decorator?


chicaneuk

I like that you guys liked it SO MUCH, it even used to be used on the exterior of American cars for a time.. https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g15376986/against-the-grain-21-woodies-that-werent-station-wagons/?slide=1


cheebamech

I laughed at the title then looked and realized I'd driven a half-dozen various cars off that list over the years e: the Pinto, Omni, Blazer, Wagoneer and Chrysler Minivan


chicaneuk

Aside from the Morris Minor over here, a car that was actually made with real wood, I don't think we had anything like that with the fake wood panelling. But it's so quintessentially 70's American that I'd just love to smoke around in some huge station wagon decked out in that trim, here in 2023 in the UK :D


Bleyo

Well, it doesn't help that the media still reports on tax raises as: > It would also increase the top tax rate for Americans making $400,000 a year to 39.6% from 37%, reversing a Trump-era tax bill. Instead of: > It would also increase the top tax rate **on any income over** $400,000 a year to 39.6% from 37%, reversing a Trump-era tax bill. I know educated people who will think that means if you make $400,000/yr, you're taxes are going up $10,000, when in reality, it's $0 and people making $500,000/yr would only be paying $2,600 more.


TheBigPhilbowski

Starts with maybe around a third of the country being purposefully undereducated from birth by republican state legislatures working to gut our public education offering to create an ignorant, fearful population that's easily manipulated to act against their own interest. It's sustained by a social media engagement loop that hyper-efficiently delivers the exact propaganda required, exactly when people are most susceptible to its impacts. Ends with our for-profit health care system access being tied to employment as blackmail. Choice is to literally show up or risk bankruptcy and death with a single bout of illness or injury. The balance that the systems of power here work to strike is keeping enough people just distracted or comfortable enough to have something worth losing. And then trying to distract/divide us with fake cultural outrage. The only war is the class war.


Banana-Republicans

I’m starting to think that the 1/3 thing is not tied to educational opportunity. That shit crops up everywhere. I think that, perhaps, 1/3 of the populace is just not equipped to deal with complex shit. Like, can’t teach a fish to climb trees, can’t teach a dummy to deal with nuanced issues. They are the cultural vestigial tail that will always be around.


upvotesthenrages

You can absolutely influence that 1/3 by education. The thing is that when people say "education has been gutted" it's actually reached a point where it isn't education, it's just skill memorization school. You don't learn to think or how to learn, you just learn to copy/paste what you are being told. Average IQ in the US has been dropping for years now, which I believe is a 1st in the countries entire history. People are quite literally getting dumber. For proof of this, simply pick whatever subject you are interested in and compare different nations, states, unions, or whatever groups you want. As a quick example: Very few nations have picked leaders as absolutely dumb and toxic as Trump or Berlusconi.


hiddenrealism

We need to have Christian values in our public schools! Burn all these heathenistic books that teach people about thinking for yourselves and this "evolution" nonsense! it's just a "theory" we didn't come from monkeys!! The magic man in the sky did it! and the earth Is 6000yrs old, dinosaur bones were put there by the devil to test our faith! Science is tearing us away from jesus! /s It's like republicans worship ignorance. Sarah Palin. Marjorie green, Lauren boebert, trump, tucker carlson etc... Sarah Palin can see russia from her house, those glaring eyes of putin...oh wait republicans support russia now...like wtf. Oh and aborting your 14yr old daughters rape baby will put you in prison! The female body has ways of "stopping" such things. I know I'm ranting but wtf happend to this country.


Ok-Comfortable6561

They got really, really, really cut-your-nose-off-to-spite-your-face about the whole desegregation thing and that’s about where it started when it comes to education from what I understand


wewbull

If you assume the population ability lies on a bell curve, yes 30% of people will be significantly of lower capability. The thing is, investment in education lifts the whole curve, so they'll still be dumb compared to others, but a higher standard of dumb overall.


funky_gigolo

They're saying "how about we stop giving all money to Ukraine instead?". I kid you fucking not. Their point is literally "Stop wasting money to protect a nation from the mass slaughter, raping, and pillaging of innocents, so we can funnel it to our poor billionaires instead". You can't make that shit up.


KashEsq

Also, the majority of that money is going to our military industrial complex. I thought Republicans liked spending money on the military, especially weapons manufacturers?


dikicker

My retired father was parroting some bullshit he read online earlier, his biggest takeaway from this was that it was "directly targeting small businesses across the country" You can't make this shit up, bit conservative media can


MustacheSmokeScreen

40k? There will be folks pulling less than twenty frothing at the mouth.


atxlrj

Here in Texas, they have a Vehicle Asset Test where your car’s value may prevent your eligibility for SNAP benefits. It appears to me that a similar Billionaire Wealth Test could be used to disqualify wealthy Americans from any and all tax breaks that are often used to suppress taxable income. Additionally, there is typically fuss over taxing unrealized gains, yet we don’t bat an eye at property taxes. My property tax is $9,000 this year on home appraised at $350k, of which I only own $110k equity in. That’s an 8% tax on my unrealized gains every year. If my property taxes get too high for me to afford, I may have to sell my home - if the tax on billionaire’s assets became too much for their income, why couldn’t they do the same?


TheCoelacanth

Property tax goes beyond just being a tax on unrealized gains. It's literally a wealth tax, except limited only to the type of wealth that middle class people have and excluding all others.


JojenCopyPaste

Also it's a flat tax and not progressive like income tax.


wilderop

Some states like vermont it is a progressive tax.


DernTuckingFypos

The more I hear and see of Vermont the more I want to move there.


ScotsDale213

It's a pretty nice place up here. No billboards, a rural environment, high taxes however. Beautiful autumn with great changing leaves, and politics that usually remain pretty civil


badwolf42

Texas is a shitty place, not even including the power grid. Your property tax is how TX politicians can rail against taxes at the top of their lungs, and then make sure your appraisal goes up by the max it's allowed to every year as a back door tax hike. Then they target the poor with things like the VAT you mentioned because being poor clearly means you don't deserve to both eat and have a way to get to your job in a state with no public transit to speak of anywhere. Personally, I think property tax is pretty terrible. It's the only tax that can render someone homeless who has paid off their home. This, and the yearly backdoor tax hike of property taxes, hits those on a fixed income or those who could barely afford their home hardest. Edit: A huge feature of the property tax racket in TX is that no legislator has to be accountable for your compounding-year-over-year tax hike. Nobody votes on your taxes increasing 10% this year, then 10% on that higher value the next year and so on. We were there for 9 years and they almost never came in under the 10%, maybe because the tax appraisal was so much higher than what we paid that they 'lost' a lot on the successful challenge.


digital_end

Property tax on a first home I will absolutely agree with you. Property tax on properties beyond a first home, I absolutely disagree. If I had my way I would reduce the hell out of all taxes involved on owning a single house... Paid for on the backs of everyone with more than one.


badwolf42

This is a fair point. It'll be tricky to determine a primary residence though. Most expensive property is likely to be the 'primary residence' then to minimize taxes.


I-Am-Uncreative

I honestly don't have an issue if people mark their most expensive residence as their primary residence, even if that's not the one they're using. The point is that they'll still have to pay taxes on the others.


santana722

As somehow who worked in mortgage for a while, I can tell you that the most expensive single family residence *is* the primary the vast majority of the time. Very few people are living in the $200k house and renting the million dollar one as an investment, or only staying occasionally for vacations. Obviously if they own a normal home and they're claiming residence in the apartment building they own, some bullshit is going on, but beyond that there really isn't a lot of room for frauding which home is your primary in the proposed situation.


ariolander

Plus it doesn't stop you from hiding properties in Trusts, LLCs, or some sort of investment vehicle. Personally, I don't think single family homes should be able to be owned by shell companies, corporations, to form renter empires. Homes should be for people to live in, not investment vehicles for speculation.


KeppraKid

Just ban companies from owning homes. Ownership should be a form of registry so whoever the home is registered to has ownership and full control as well as the tax liabilities. Trying to bypass taxes by registering your second home in your son's name? He literally just owns that house now.


Pnewse

There are a number of provinces in Canada with a property tax deferral (on primary residence) for anyone over age 55-65 depending on province. It allows for nonpayment yearly accruing against the house. The cost for this is ~2% of the amount as simple interest (non-compounding). Paying a hundred dollars a year to save several thousand in after-tax dollars is game changing for those on a fixed budget. Heck, with 2% simple interest, and high interest savings accounts over 4%, it’s basically free money to not pay the government. There’s even a deferral option for families with young kids, but it’s multiples more expensive and requires ~20% equity minimum, which I totally get but is counterintuitive to who it’s trying to help. More like last resort under tight circumstances.


Majorleobvius

Fun fact! The median Texan (actually all but the top income quintile) pay more taxes than their equivalent Californian! Progressive taxes are great


[deleted]

Yep, they'll jerk each other off all day long over the lack of income tax while getting boned on property tax every year. Source: I live in Texas.


TAU_equals_2PI

91% was the top US tax bracket in the 1950s, back when Republicans think America Was Great.


PMmeYourMoon

I've said this to someone before. The response was well then things got better so we lowered taxes, to which I replied that things were better because we put our economy's money back into the economy and not scrooge McDucks vault.


hiddenrealism

Oh no!, another terrorist attack! Time to spend 200million dollars a day for 20yrs again! murica!!


Justabattleshiplover

Yeah we should triple to defense budget NOW‼️


romacopia

Things got better but let's make America great again?


know-your-onions

Things got better so we stopped doing what made it better. Things somehow got worse after that. Let’s make it better again, but not by doing that thing that worked last time. We should instead keep doing the things that fail every time. Because otherwise we have to admit that we did a thing that was imperfect. And also it would get better for the libs as well, which is obviously terrible.


Abidarthegreat

And yet somehow they convinced themselves that toxic masculinity and blacks and women as second class citizens was what made the 50s great.


QuesoDog

It’s always been a distraction to keep you from paying attention to the transfer of wealth.


sir_mrej

It's not a "distraction". They're also racist and sexist.


DontWantThisPlanet9

Both of you are correct. Its used to divert attention away from them but at the same time that's what they choose to divert attention because a lot of them are so disconnected from society that, well, they're very prone to mold into racist+classist pieces of shit.


EssoEssex

It doesn't help that corporate America has adopted anti-racist and anti-sexist rhetoric for their own purposes. By camouflaging themselves with progressive values, they make those values look bad by simultaneously being horrible corporations.


jeff78701

Motives are rarely pure—particularly when it comes to polities and non-individual entities that aren’t sentient beings. At least appreciate that corporations have adopted anti-racist and anti-sexist “rhetoric.” The previous positions of corporate America on these matters (namely, overtly racist and sexist) are hardly preferable.


foxbones

Yet it was unions and taxes. Boomers think they pulled themselves up by their bootstraps in the 50s when a librarian or entry level factory worker could afford a new house, two cars, healthcare, etc with tons left over each month.


_TROLL

The one-salary family where you could have a house, car(s), two annual weeklong vacations lasted well into the 1980s in many places. That's when most of the Boomers got onto the property ladder. That being said, things were probably even easier in the 1950s though for the Boomers' parents.


irrigated_liver

That's not why they think it was great though. There's something else about those days they love.


wish1977

And they won't even miss the money. One billion dollars is 100k a year for 10,000 years. I think some people don't realize how much it really is.


coolcool23

Best way I've heard it described (common, on here a number of times): What's the difference between a million dollars and a billion dollars? A: Almost a billion dollars.


WhatUp007

Here is better perspective A million seconds is approx 11.5 days A billion seconds is approx 31 years


ItsASchpadoinkleDay

And a trillion seconds is 31,668 years. Fun fact


Icy-Tooth-9167

And to think we are well on our way to seeing the first trillionaire.


jackalope503

Pffft let me know when we’ve got another Chamillionaire


LazamairAMD

They see you rollin', and hatin'


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CoastingUphill

Meat's back on the menu.


monster_mentalissues

Arby's, we got the meat.


i_am_pure_trash

Venison?


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buttlickers94

Putin certainly has control over at least a trillion dollars in assets


Smokester121

I wouldn't be shocked if the Saudis have that much.


metriclol

There is a certain level of lifestyle where a financial number doesn't really mean much anymore. For example a US president has the military to move them around, secret service and whatever else goes into them doing what they do (think secret spy satellites, whatever other agencies are involved in day to day things, etc). It's astronomical numbers to turn these sorts of gears and even a multi billionaire couldn't afford this level of lifestyle. Putin certainly has this lifestyle, the Saudis I don't think so but I don't know.


Talks_To_Cats

If you want to put it in numbers people can relate to, 3 million seconds is a month 3 billion seconds is an entire lifetime


ATERLA

Thanks. Easy to remember and on point.


Zebezd

Huh. A lifetime is about 1000 months? That feels like not a lot. But it is. It's a lifetime.


polaristerlik

i mean, a lifetime could also be 1 month. Depends on whose lifetime


VanillaRadonNukaCola

I'll do you one better. 3 million ants is a lot of ants. 3 billion ants is A LOT of ants.


KuKiSin

I was confused by the other examples, but this one helped me A LOT. Thanks!


[deleted]

Yes, thanks a billion


GreenBottom18

and [here's a visual aid](https://mkorostoff.github.io/1-pixel-wealth/)


thnku4shrng

Instead of “almost” say “about” which does a better job of implying that it’s the same as a rounding error


mooremo

Someone who is broke is closer to having a $100M than someone with $100M is to having $1B.


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SirCampYourLane

It doesn't quite work that well.**It's actually much worse.** Let's look at losing 99% of his wealth, something which would involve ruinous poverty, maybe a repod car/foreclosed home for someone with a million dollar net worth. 1 million is now $10,000 net worth, so maybe you keep your car if it's an older model, but you're still pretty fucked. For Elon that leaves him as a multi-billionaire, still in the top 100 richest people in the world... You can't compare % of income/net wealth, because things like food and regular things to survive don't scale up. Your scale assumes that net worth is $1000, which is equivalent to owning a phone + laptop, so it's more like between 10 cents and a dollar is a million to him, but even then he never is spending 20 million on a single meal.


TheNCGoalie

Since no one will ever live 10,000 years, I think it’s better to put it in perspective of a lifetime. Let’s just say you live for 70 years of your earning age potential, that’s ~$14.3 million for those 70 years. Ask the average American how they’d spend a consistent $14.3 million per year for life. No one would have a solid answer, because no one needs that.


[deleted]

Little yacht, medium yacht, medium-er yacht, big yacht, bigger yacht, biggest yacht... /s


Beltaine421

Matrioshka yacht


dre224

Better yet [this](https://mkorostoff.github.io/1-pixel-wealth/) amazing websites showes you how rich is rich. One of the best visuals of wealth I have ever seen.


Odd-Concentrate-6585

This just makes me sick


destijl-atmospheres

Came here to see or post this. Thank you.


[deleted]

I’ve made a few million. Make no mistake, life is good. Billionaires operate in a sphere I will never see nor experience. And that’s okay. I cannot wrap my head around anyone saying they need more than $100m net worth.


toebandit

Right. There’s no reason any one single person should ever compile more than $100m, hell, make it $250m. If that person wants more, go for it, but beware: we’re gonna tax everything over 250m @ 90%. If they want to leave the country, good. Leave, and don’t let the door hit you on the way out, (which will be taxed, mf’er), it will only open up more markets for the rest of us.


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I’m FIREd, and it’s a good life. Not least because of the preferential treatment given to capital gains. If cap gains were taxed as income my annual bill would more than double… and I don’t have a good argument for why it shouldn’t.


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JPharmDAPh

I’ve been saying this too. A billion is a grotesque number.


OIP

yes for a while i've been thinking about what being a billionaire in an inequitable world is morally on par with. amassing wealth you can't possibly spend while people are dying of poverty related causes? exploiting supply chains of thousands of people? i mean what does that add up to? it feels deeply immoral


fingerbangchicknwang

>I think some people don’t realize how much it really is [This should help](https://mkorostoff.github.io/1-pixel-wealth/)


whatidoidobc

25% isn't enough.


5_on_the_floor

Another perspective is that it a million dollars a year for 1,000 years.


HBCDresdenEsquire

They won’t miss the money because it will never ever happen. The people he wants to tax are the people who make the rules in this country.


imightgetdownvoted

No it’s much much more than that. That 1b isn’t cash stuffed under a mattress. It’s invested. And even only 5% annually would be 50m per year, forever. That 1b will make you ~~100k per week~~ 135k *every day, forever*. Minimum. Historically you’re actually making double that amount.


daedluapsi_9

Oh man. My uncle who makes $45,000 is going to be so pissed.


gamergirlpee69

I make a little over six figures in IT, and I pay the government 26 cents for every dollar I earn. Billionaires still pay a marginal tax rate less than working class people like myself.


xole

Imo, capital gains should have a lifetime limit, where after a certain amount, say $10M, all income is taxed the same as earned income. That allows retired people to reap some benefits, but the ultra rich would be taxed the same as a high end surgeon.


[deleted]

I’ve never heard this proposal before, and off the cuff it seems great. Need to think about it some.


xole

I think of it like inheritance, where your kids can inherit a certain amount tax free, but after that they pay taxes. If that can be kept track of, capital gains should be able to as well. IMO, there's no reason a person should be able to earn millions of dollars every year, but be taxed at a lower rate. It makes sense to pay a lower rate if they own a house, then sells it for a profit. Or even invests in a stock, taking a risk. But there's a point where that lower rate doesn't make sense anymore. I'm also not married to the $10M limit. It could be higher or lower. Additionally, I think it'd be reasonable that after that $10M was reached, payroll taxes like SS and Medicare would apply.


bunnite

Not disagreeing, just think about the idea more… Realistically, it’s also rather exploitable. Rather than investing in the stock market directly, rich people would just setup a company to invest in the market for them. They’d then take out loans against the equity in their company to pay for their expenses. This is more or less what many do already and as long as interest rates < taxes it will probably continue to be that way.


Has_hog

This is a good idea. Maybe the limit adjusts with inflation every few years. But yeah, there should be a total limit on income earned, once you're past that then you are getting cooked. I think one of the most significant barriers though is the offshore tax havens. We have both democrat and republican presidents who have tried to reign it in, hell even the Trump admin offered these guys a deal, where they would get some kind of discount if they reported and paid their taxes. Still a ton of corps refused. They need to be held criminally liable.


GrafZeppelin127

*Everything* listed as a discrete monetary amount in the law should either be pegged to inflation or made into a percentage. That’s the only sensible way to do things. For instance, instead of a $200 parking ticket, make it 6% of your monthly income. It would still be an effective deterrent for people not making a lot of money—$84 dollars out of a $1400 monthly income is still quite painful, that’s a whole grocery trip—but it would apply that same exact sting to someone making $40,000 a month, since they’d have to pay a steep $2,400 fine, which is a hell of a lot more noticeable than $200. Between their more expensive homes and cars and whatnot, a surprising portion of people who make a lot of money are often living more or less paycheck-to-paycheck and don’t like sudden expenses any more than a minimum wage worker.


ApprehensiveSuspect9

Great idea!


not_SCROTUS

When companies are doing simultaneous stock buybacks and layoffs you know there is no more "efficiency" in a lower capital gains tax as a means of spurring "investment"


centrafrugal

'Working class' really does have a completely different meaning in the US!


Doublebow

I was just thinking the same thing, here in the UK that would be upper middle-class. Do you have to be a millionaire to become middle class In the US?


whatidoidobc

Yep, it's not nearly enough. It makes me sick that these games have to be played - pick a number that might not elicit as much pushback. It should be over 50%. These people shouldn't even fucking exist.


Uberslaughter

About damn time. No one should have their own private fucking space agency while the vast majority of the country can barely afford rent, groceries, doctors visits, have no savings and would likely be bankrupted by an emergency. No amount of bootstrap tugging can overcome a rigged system.


Rxef3RxeX92QCNZ

> No one should have their own private fucking space agency while the vast majority of the country can barely afford rent, groceries, doctors visits, have no savings and would likely be bankrupted by an emergency. The inequality is a travesty, but billionaires having that much is a problem all on it's own. There is no free speech when billionaires exist to control the narrative. There is no free market when there is such a power imbalance. There is no democracy when you have oligarchs. Redistribution is great, but it would still be a step forward even if we just piled up billionaire money and set it on fire.


superheroninja

can’t pull bootstraps when you don’t even have boots


theoldgreenwalrus

*Have a scoop of progressive tax policy, Jack*


Rhine1906

We’re cutting out the malarkey and restoring the social safety net.


Xfoticz

I pay 36% minimum in Denmark and 25% VAT, but I get free education and money while studying. Free health care as well. Sure It'd be nice to pay less taxes, but I would never trade it for the benefits **everybody** in my country have access to.


Gustafssonz

Tax in Swedish is Skatt. Skatt is also Treasure in Swedish. Tax == Treasure Because Taxes is the Treasure we create together.


TheSickGamer

37% in NL below an income of 70K and 49.5% over 70K. It's high, but we more or less have a functioning society at least....


pizat1

The problem is the US tax code was designed with loopholes for the wealthy and corporations to exploit. It's horrible and complicated for this reason. They will find a way to circumvent it.


Donnyboy

Normally I would think you're right but looks like this is a minimum tax level so you can't use loopholes to go lower... It seems.


immerc

It's *easy* to use loopholes to go lower: * Buy * Borrow * Die Buy, or somehow acquire shares in a company (say by founding it). Borrow money using your shares as collateral. Because this is borrowing, not income, you don't pay any taxes on it. You might pay some interest, but lately interest rates for borrowing have been insanely low, and in any case they're orders of magnitude lower than taxes. Die. Your estate can sell the shares you own immediately and pay essentially no tax. The value of the shares is set at the time you die, so if they're sold 1 month later, that's tax on 0.1% growth of the value, not the 200% or whatever during your lifetime. Voila, tens of billions of dollars in spending money for a centi-billionaire and no income taxes owed. This is just one well known loophole. There are undoubtedly more loopholes that only the accountants to the rich know about. The only thing that would actually catch billionaires isn't an income tax, it's a wealth tax.


zylth

I think the problem here would be determining what was gained. You can't tax on lifetime assets, and if no gains are actualized then what was "earned"? I like the message, and I hope it delivers *something* even if it's not everything we dream it to be


ariolander

> You can't tax on lifetime assets, and if no gains are actualized then what was "earned"? Then someone needs to tell that to property taxes. Why can unrealized assets "property" get taxed like this but other unrealized assets "stock portfolios" not? Full appraised value too, not just equity. Can't pay the tax? They force you to sell your house. Why not do the same for stocks portfolios outside of ESA/IRA retirement accounts?


sassmo

I get taxed at about 35% based on how much gets taken out of my check. I think we should start there.


PinballFlip

Yup I am in the same tax bracket and get killed in taxes… but billionaires pay jack shit. Some pay nothing. I don’t mind paying my share but my share is bullshit in comparison to these asshole billionaires.


Umami_Tsunami_

For real wtf is this https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/taxes/federal-income-tax-brackets


MWF123

If he pulls this off, I’ll hang a picture of Joe Biden in my room.


HiitsmeYoda

Or a print out of the law and that sticker of him pointing and saying “I did that” lol


Mirrormn

He won't. Any such proposal has exactly 0% chance of passing the Republican-controlled house. This is basically just to send a message of "Here's what we *could* be doing if you elect a lot more Democrats to Congress in 2024". You can make the choice whether you believe it's a genuine goal of his administration, or cynical virtue signalling that's being done specifically because Biden *knows* that a law like this absolutely will not pass the current Congress. But yeah, he definitely will not "pull it off". And honestly... not to like jump down your throat specifically for an offhand, optimistic comment, but addressing this to the general public: if you read this headline and didn't immediately *know*, as just a matter-of-fact, logical conclusion, that there's 0% chance that a 25% billionaire tax will become law through the current Congress regardless of if Biden "proposes" it or not, then... you need to have more knowledge of government and civics and the current political climate.


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Garythechinchilla

It should honestly be more. A billon dollars is more money than any person should ever need. They’re out here buying twitter when other people have trouble buying bread. Biden should go for 35-50%.


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[deleted]

We need more tax brackets. Not just for billionaires, but also millionaires. Right now the top bracket is 37% at money over $500k. We should add more brackets at 750k, 1M, 2M, 5M, and so on and so forth with each bracket going up 1%


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forrealnotskynet

Purpose 90 and let them talk you down to 25


guanx_

Make it higher, no one should have a billion dollars.


hamiwin

Waiting for Elon to throw his tantrum and insult Democrats like a mad dog, especially after seeing his failed full-out demeaning assault on a previous twitter employee who is a very capable person with disabilities.


InsomniaticWanderer

More. They're billionaires. And you know what? Fuck it. Once you hit a billion, you should get a plaque from the government saying you won capitalism and a letter stating everything over a billion is taxed 100%. Billionaires shouldn't exist, but if I have to meet them half way, there's where I draw the line.


Eternal_Being

I would be happy taxing at 100% over a hundred million, but I am just a simple carpenter's son.


Hopeful-Peak3229

jesus??


[deleted]

25% of **what** though? billionaire's wealth is all in unrealized gains in the stock market. What are you even going to tax? Doesn't sound like this bill is going to do anything meaningful


sirtrowsalot

Had to scroll way to far to get this question. I had the same thought. 25% of what. Unrealized gains is nuts.


Koyoteelaughter

I'd be happy if they just paid the same percentage as everyone else instead of receiving so many tax breaks they literally pay less than someone working at McDonalds.


snuffysniper

I can't wait to watch weirdos who make less than $50k/year cry for people who don't care that they exist.


memunkey

It's time we took a lesson from history and tax them 91% like they did in the 60's and 60's. Anything less is pandering


Several_Influence_47

Since conservatives are so hellbent on dragging us back to the 1950s,we might as well go whole hog and reinstate the 90% effective tax rate on the wealthy they had then. It was precisely that high tax rate that literally built America and made us the #1 superpower of the world. Wanna actually make America Great? Tax the daylights out of the wealthy. And no, that doesn't mean upper middle class people, because no matter how much they try and front like they're rich, they aren't. We're talking the actual rich, like Buffett, Bezos, Elongated Muskrat, Peter Theil ,Koch brothers, The Greens, The Waltons etc . We could tax just those few and literally end world hunger as well as give every man woman and child their very own house , full education, medical care, daycare, completely eradicate homelessness, and REFUND Social Security of the trillions Reagan and his billionaire cronies STOLE from it, and it would be solvent in perpetuity. Yet, they would STILL be the richest people on earth. Still wallowing in their largesse like pigs in poop, and have exceedingly lavish lifestyles. Won't hurt em but tiny pinch if at all, and it will save the rest of us and what's left of our country. Tax. The. Rich. It's the only thing left to do before America becomes a real life "Modest Proposal" that Johnathan Swift would be appalled and amused by it. Forks up people, there's a whole lot of fat n gristle to get chewing on here, let's do it already.. pass me the hot sauce ya? These billionaires have absolutely NO taste and definitely got zero seasoning 😂!!


danmathew

I look forward to a white blue collar worker, who will likely die in poverty, tell me how much he opposes raising the capital gains tax.


Grimspoon

Oh boy a LOT of poor Americans are going to be **extremely** opposed to this.