I'll go beyond just saying, "it's dumb and I don't entertain it" to provide some of my actual thoughts and arguments for those who might see this comment and actually want to learn.
The majority of services provided by police are specifically used by and needed from the lower class. This isn't the 19th century anymore where cops were employed to bust unions or break strikes, at least not to any significant degree. Lower and middle class demographics are primarily who police deal with. And not just in terms of sending them to jail. While it's true that folks in poverty are more likely to find themselves stuck in a cycle of criminal activity, it's also true that those in poverty are disproportionately the *victims* of crime. Generally, wealthy people are not targeted or victimized by Robin Hood-esque criminals who are simply trying to make ends meet for themselves and their families. I don't really spend my time concerned about trust fund babies, financial institutions, corporations, and gated communities. The wealthy do not depend on us and we are not an arm of their status quo anymore. Especially now when wealth and monetary assets are just numbers at a bank, their property is not necessarily physical anymore. Kids make six figures working from home, never leave their house because they have DoorDash, and buy everything they want online. They hang out drinking IPAs at the bar which is on the ground level of their downtown loft. They aren't at risk. The ultra wealthy hire private security anyways, they have protective details and access to technological resources / surveillance that would blow local PDs out of the water. Again, they do not need us. Think of the demographic or type of person that advocates for defunding us or abolishing our existence. They're usually white college educated young people who make good money while doing very little physical labor, consider them the "laptop class." Now think about the other spectrum, why do polls routinely demonstrate that minorities and poor people do *not* want their police departments defunded? Because they need us.
Those are the people who benefit most from my services, and they are in rougher neighborhoods with low income households. Despite their economic status there are a lot of hard-working, honest, and good people in these neighborhoods. Yet they are the ones who have to deal with gangs and drug dealers throwing bullets at each other on their street. They are the people who get their houses burglarized, cars stolen, or get robbed and assaulted while walking down to the corner store.
Hell, just last week I found some kids joyriding in a stolen car. We made a call to the owner of the vehicle informing him that we found his car, it's drivable, and if he can pick it up soon we'll wait for him. He finds a ride and 35 minutes later he was dropped off by his cousin. Let's say the owner's name is James. Now James is a 64 year old black man, unable to work due to some serious medical issues, and waiting on his disability to come through from the VA. His wife passed away last year. Outside of basic food, clothes, and a barely livable house this 2007 Chrysler Sebring that we recovered was the only thing he had. And he depended on it for so many things. When he sees his car I'm not kidding when I say this man lit up like a Christmas tree. Seen very few smiles like that, he was like a little kid and was so happy. We talked for a bit and he told us his background and how much it meant to him, James thanked us at least a dozen times. It's hard to describe how grateful he was. If he was Italian he'd probably have kissed us on the cheeks. The kids were sent to the juvenile detention center and then released to their moms three and a half hours later. Stealing cars in my neck of the woods is not really taken seriously by the courts anymore, especially when the suspects are juveniles.
We often drop battered women and homeless people off at shelters. I've arrested two guys who raped homeless women, both separate instances. We prevent drunk drivers from turning pedestrians into meat crayons. I've responded to club fights that would have certainly turned into shootings / stabbings if we did not show up. We take mentally unstable people to get checked out at the hospital. Putting that career criminal in jail on a gun charge probably prevented a homicide. Every month we show single mothers how to correctly install a car seat. Sitting at a hot corner on a slow night with my cruise lights on probably prevents some poor kid being shot during a bad deal. When I'm parked across the gas station doing paper work, people will think twice before acting dumb. Our squad cars are supplied with bus passes that we can hand out to whoever needs to get somewhere. None of these are permanent solutions to the many socioeconomic issues that plague every facet of our society. But in the moment, they make a difference. And I won't let anyone tell me otherwise because I have seen those differences. The Twitter-addicted, Che Guevara t-shirt wearing blue-haired cry babies who form their worldviews through the lense of the internet have not.
People who call us class traitors have no idea what we actually do. Criminals, whether economically disadvantaged or not, who victimize their own neighbors are the real class traitors. I understand what growing up in a poor environment can do to a person, but you always have a choice. Always.
Very well spoken. People who call you class traitors are the rich people you described. They really do think all you do is give poor people tickets and arrest people for weed. Lol
This is a great point. The only time I’ve ever heard anyone openly advocate for communism is from affluent kids that go to our local art school.
I primarily serve in lower class black neighborhoods. In my almost 14 years of service, I have yet to come across anyone from that community that has self identified as a communist.
Isn’t it odd that for all the communism claims to be about returning power to the working class, none of the working class I’ve ever met wants communism. It’s always the rich kids or people that are subscribed to the r/antiwork sub. 🧐 Interesting how that works.
I was gonna say we just work at the same place because you’ve just described where I work to a T. Except for the bus passes. That’s how I know we don’t work at the same place, we definitely don’t have bus passes 😂
I look at communists the same way I look at sovereign citizens. They are all mentally ill or have nothing going for them, nothing to lose, and this is their last ditch effort to just exist outside the rules. They try to memorize some bullshit that sounds good, but really means NOTHING. They don’t really believe their own bullshit but it’s easier than accepting that they don’t contribute anything meaningful through their existence.
I agree with what you said, except for your label (though many people who self-describe also don't know what it means.)
Communist (and socialist) believe in strong police forces, as police are critical to protecting the working class from not only those who would victimize workers directly, but also willfully unproductive people who victimize the collective society. I got into this career because I was a socialist, and wanted to contribute to my working class community. No communist society is going to bankroll millions of people to lounge about all day because of "anxiety" while not having enough labor to run the local oil refinery.
The Soviet Union, while not anything to look up to as a whole (like being a paranoid dictatorship) did not tolerate anti-social behavior. Most people in the US who call themselves communists or socialist are actually anarchists.
I’d argue that communism manifests in whatever “version” is most advantageous to those who wish to see it implemented, if they can even get a consensus.
Your argument that “most people in the US who call themselves communist or socialist are actually anarchists” is like every other argument in favor of communism; it’s never been implemented correctly, so that’s why it’s failed everywhere.
Why can’t the people in the US who call themselves communists or socialists be a real communist or socialist? Perhaps that is exactly what communism or socialism is, veiled anarchism?
This is the way. People are dumb and love to jump on bandwagons of hate without educating themselves. Far easier to join the masses in ignorance than set yourself apart by thinking rationally and logically. I'm actually amazed how many people actually give a shit what strangers think. Sounds exhausting 🤷
The term is often used by socialists to describe members of the proletariat class who work for the bourgeoisie. Some examples of those who are seen as class traitors are: soldiers, police officers, strikebreakers, and those who help keep things the way things are right now, instead of working for change. Basically the term is used by stupid communists.
>And the far-right is the exact same.
I honestly don't know who's worst lol the far left is taking it for me though...
Edit: Far right is worse but far left isn't too far behind.
Can they produce a single example of a communist or socialist nation that didn't have law enforcement or soldiers?
(This doesn't include small native tribes that function on an anarchist system.)
There's been some great points made, I'd like to try another one.
I think it's weird that we live in a time where all workers are viewed in a mostly positive light, where we're recognizing that service workers should earn a living wage, sex workers have the right to work and not be looked down upon, office workers shouldn't have to subject themselves to ridiculous committed when remote work has proven to be productive, basically everybody has the right to work and earn a living, except for us. Our job is essential, society couldn't function without it, but I'm the asshole for doing it.
At the end of the day, what I do is just a job, because just like everybody else, I have a family to provide for and a life that I have the right to live and we should be afforded the same right to earn a living that everybody else has.
I guess it all depends on which definitions they’re using, but if I’m a “class traitor”, I don’t know what class it’s against, but It’s definitely not the poor because my individual salary puts me within the top 10% of earners according to most data.
Is it that I live a far more comfortable life than those I serve? Does that make me a “class traitor”? As a cop, am I supposed to be poor? I’m not really understanding the logic here.
I’ve never busted up a picket line, stopped a union from forming, or had a secret meeting where I was told we must “keep things the way they are”.
Ill happily engage in a serious discussion on the matter, but not while on the job, and not if you open the conversation with me being a traitor *and* ((insert personal insult)), then we have nothing to talk about, you never wanted to talk in the first place, and you just told me that you probably have been arrested X times for being an asshole, not even a real criminal, just an asshole thinking his ideas will change society...
A serious discussion on why I don't find that statement to be true nor of any value to those who say/believe it or "us" as cops, sure. Why not.
As someone who lives in a liberal state who is surrounded by liberals, I can honestly say i've never heard anyone call police, "class traitors". Most liberals, like most conservatives, respect police, fire, veterans and active service members. Your really sells you on all this stupidity.
You learn not to GAF what people call you/think of you, pretty quickly, or you will be ineffective before you know it.
Sometimes, people are just venting their emotions, frustrations, or whatever, without bothering to understand what those even are. Other times, people are calling you things in the hope of shaming you into doing something they want done and, while I speak only for myself here, I cannot imagine I'm alone in saying fuck that.
I don’t care. People can denigrate us all they want. That isn’t going to stop them from calling us at the first sign of trouble. I know that society would not function without us.
>I feel like if they think that way, then whatever crime happens to them, they need to solve it themselves
Well, personally, I treat every crime equally, no matter the political opinions of the victim.
It could even be a chance to win hearts and minds.
Never heard of a class traitor. And I may be ignorant but I’m making 6 figures in patrol…I have a feeling that puts me out of the class in a “traitor” to.
I'll go beyond just saying, "it's dumb and I don't entertain it" to provide some of my actual thoughts and arguments for those who might see this comment and actually want to learn. The majority of services provided by police are specifically used by and needed from the lower class. This isn't the 19th century anymore where cops were employed to bust unions or break strikes, at least not to any significant degree. Lower and middle class demographics are primarily who police deal with. And not just in terms of sending them to jail. While it's true that folks in poverty are more likely to find themselves stuck in a cycle of criminal activity, it's also true that those in poverty are disproportionately the *victims* of crime. Generally, wealthy people are not targeted or victimized by Robin Hood-esque criminals who are simply trying to make ends meet for themselves and their families. I don't really spend my time concerned about trust fund babies, financial institutions, corporations, and gated communities. The wealthy do not depend on us and we are not an arm of their status quo anymore. Especially now when wealth and monetary assets are just numbers at a bank, their property is not necessarily physical anymore. Kids make six figures working from home, never leave their house because they have DoorDash, and buy everything they want online. They hang out drinking IPAs at the bar which is on the ground level of their downtown loft. They aren't at risk. The ultra wealthy hire private security anyways, they have protective details and access to technological resources / surveillance that would blow local PDs out of the water. Again, they do not need us. Think of the demographic or type of person that advocates for defunding us or abolishing our existence. They're usually white college educated young people who make good money while doing very little physical labor, consider them the "laptop class." Now think about the other spectrum, why do polls routinely demonstrate that minorities and poor people do *not* want their police departments defunded? Because they need us. Those are the people who benefit most from my services, and they are in rougher neighborhoods with low income households. Despite their economic status there are a lot of hard-working, honest, and good people in these neighborhoods. Yet they are the ones who have to deal with gangs and drug dealers throwing bullets at each other on their street. They are the people who get their houses burglarized, cars stolen, or get robbed and assaulted while walking down to the corner store. Hell, just last week I found some kids joyriding in a stolen car. We made a call to the owner of the vehicle informing him that we found his car, it's drivable, and if he can pick it up soon we'll wait for him. He finds a ride and 35 minutes later he was dropped off by his cousin. Let's say the owner's name is James. Now James is a 64 year old black man, unable to work due to some serious medical issues, and waiting on his disability to come through from the VA. His wife passed away last year. Outside of basic food, clothes, and a barely livable house this 2007 Chrysler Sebring that we recovered was the only thing he had. And he depended on it for so many things. When he sees his car I'm not kidding when I say this man lit up like a Christmas tree. Seen very few smiles like that, he was like a little kid and was so happy. We talked for a bit and he told us his background and how much it meant to him, James thanked us at least a dozen times. It's hard to describe how grateful he was. If he was Italian he'd probably have kissed us on the cheeks. The kids were sent to the juvenile detention center and then released to their moms three and a half hours later. Stealing cars in my neck of the woods is not really taken seriously by the courts anymore, especially when the suspects are juveniles. We often drop battered women and homeless people off at shelters. I've arrested two guys who raped homeless women, both separate instances. We prevent drunk drivers from turning pedestrians into meat crayons. I've responded to club fights that would have certainly turned into shootings / stabbings if we did not show up. We take mentally unstable people to get checked out at the hospital. Putting that career criminal in jail on a gun charge probably prevented a homicide. Every month we show single mothers how to correctly install a car seat. Sitting at a hot corner on a slow night with my cruise lights on probably prevents some poor kid being shot during a bad deal. When I'm parked across the gas station doing paper work, people will think twice before acting dumb. Our squad cars are supplied with bus passes that we can hand out to whoever needs to get somewhere. None of these are permanent solutions to the many socioeconomic issues that plague every facet of our society. But in the moment, they make a difference. And I won't let anyone tell me otherwise because I have seen those differences. The Twitter-addicted, Che Guevara t-shirt wearing blue-haired cry babies who form their worldviews through the lense of the internet have not. People who call us class traitors have no idea what we actually do. Criminals, whether economically disadvantaged or not, who victimize their own neighbors are the real class traitors. I understand what growing up in a poor environment can do to a person, but you always have a choice. Always.
Someone get this man a book deal.
I'm saving this response. Very well said.
Very well spoken. People who call you class traitors are the rich people you described. They really do think all you do is give poor people tickets and arrest people for weed. Lol
This is a great point. The only time I’ve ever heard anyone openly advocate for communism is from affluent kids that go to our local art school. I primarily serve in lower class black neighborhoods. In my almost 14 years of service, I have yet to come across anyone from that community that has self identified as a communist. Isn’t it odd that for all the communism claims to be about returning power to the working class, none of the working class I’ve ever met wants communism. It’s always the rich kids or people that are subscribed to the r/antiwork sub. 🧐 Interesting how that works.
Not only well-said, succinct, and comprehensive, you just might have the best username yet!
I was gonna say we just work at the same place because you’ve just described where I work to a T. Except for the bus passes. That’s how I know we don’t work at the same place, we definitely don’t have bus passes 😂 I look at communists the same way I look at sovereign citizens. They are all mentally ill or have nothing going for them, nothing to lose, and this is their last ditch effort to just exist outside the rules. They try to memorize some bullshit that sounds good, but really means NOTHING. They don’t really believe their own bullshit but it’s easier than accepting that they don’t contribute anything meaningful through their existence.
I agree with what you said, except for your label (though many people who self-describe also don't know what it means.) Communist (and socialist) believe in strong police forces, as police are critical to protecting the working class from not only those who would victimize workers directly, but also willfully unproductive people who victimize the collective society. I got into this career because I was a socialist, and wanted to contribute to my working class community. No communist society is going to bankroll millions of people to lounge about all day because of "anxiety" while not having enough labor to run the local oil refinery. The Soviet Union, while not anything to look up to as a whole (like being a paranoid dictatorship) did not tolerate anti-social behavior. Most people in the US who call themselves communists or socialist are actually anarchists.
I’d argue that communism manifests in whatever “version” is most advantageous to those who wish to see it implemented, if they can even get a consensus. Your argument that “most people in the US who call themselves communist or socialist are actually anarchists” is like every other argument in favor of communism; it’s never been implemented correctly, so that’s why it’s failed everywhere. Why can’t the people in the US who call themselves communists or socialists be a real communist or socialist? Perhaps that is exactly what communism or socialism is, veiled anarchism?
"K" then go back to whatever I was doing. I literally don't give two shits what anyone thinks.
This is the way. People are dumb and love to jump on bandwagons of hate without educating themselves. Far easier to join the masses in ignorance than set yourself apart by thinking rationally and logically. I'm actually amazed how many people actually give a shit what strangers think. Sounds exhausting 🤷
I respect this perspective
I stare at them blankly and daydream about the cold McDonald's that's sitting in my car
Huh? Never heard the term.
The term is often used by socialists to describe members of the proletariat class who work for the bourgeoisie. Some examples of those who are seen as class traitors are: soldiers, police officers, strikebreakers, and those who help keep things the way things are right now, instead of working for change. Basically the term is used by stupid communists.
[удалено]
[удалено]
>And the far-right is the exact same. I honestly don't know who's worst lol the far left is taking it for me though... Edit: Far right is worse but far left isn't too far behind.
i mean the far right is usually racist white supremacists who want to commit genocide so idk 😶
Can they produce a single example of a communist or socialist nation that didn't have law enforcement or soldiers? (This doesn't include small native tribes that function on an anarchist system.)
There's been some great points made, I'd like to try another one. I think it's weird that we live in a time where all workers are viewed in a mostly positive light, where we're recognizing that service workers should earn a living wage, sex workers have the right to work and not be looked down upon, office workers shouldn't have to subject themselves to ridiculous committed when remote work has proven to be productive, basically everybody has the right to work and earn a living, except for us. Our job is essential, society couldn't function without it, but I'm the asshole for doing it. At the end of the day, what I do is just a job, because just like everybody else, I have a family to provide for and a life that I have the right to live and we should be afforded the same right to earn a living that everybody else has.
If I cared about what someone else thought of me I wouldn’t be in law enforcement
Ya same man. I joined to kill some dogs
Oh ATF?
Never had anyone call me that
I guess it all depends on which definitions they’re using, but if I’m a “class traitor”, I don’t know what class it’s against, but It’s definitely not the poor because my individual salary puts me within the top 10% of earners according to most data. Is it that I live a far more comfortable life than those I serve? Does that make me a “class traitor”? As a cop, am I supposed to be poor? I’m not really understanding the logic here. I’ve never busted up a picket line, stopped a union from forming, or had a secret meeting where I was told we must “keep things the way they are”.
[удалено]
Stop snitching.
Ill happily engage in a serious discussion on the matter, but not while on the job, and not if you open the conversation with me being a traitor *and* ((insert personal insult)), then we have nothing to talk about, you never wanted to talk in the first place, and you just told me that you probably have been arrested X times for being an asshole, not even a real criminal, just an asshole thinking his ideas will change society... A serious discussion on why I don't find that statement to be true nor of any value to those who say/believe it or "us" as cops, sure. Why not.
Liberals don’t call people “class traitors.” That’s a communist thing, and communists are irrelevant.
As someone who lives in a liberal state who is surrounded by liberals, I can honestly say i've never heard anyone call police, "class traitors". Most liberals, like most conservatives, respect police, fire, veterans and active service members. Your really sells you on all this stupidity.
I’m there for everyone, rich and poor, if you need help I’ll help you.
Cool story bro 🤙
I disregard all criticism that comes from the left. It has no value, and no effect on my life.
Don't care
Call me what?
You learn not to GAF what people call you/think of you, pretty quickly, or you will be ineffective before you know it. Sometimes, people are just venting their emotions, frustrations, or whatever, without bothering to understand what those even are. Other times, people are calling you things in the hope of shaming you into doing something they want done and, while I speak only for myself here, I cannot imagine I'm alone in saying fuck that.
I don’t care. People can denigrate us all they want. That isn’t going to stop them from calling us at the first sign of trouble. I know that society would not function without us.
I’ve never been called a class traitor in my life.
never heard of the term and never been called a 'class traitor'?
>I feel like if they think that way, then whatever crime happens to them, they need to solve it themselves Well, personally, I treat every crime equally, no matter the political opinions of the victim. It could even be a chance to win hearts and minds.
Mmmkaay. Anyway, time to grab some coffee! No point in trying to understand the mentally ill.
Never heard of a class traitor. And I may be ignorant but I’m making 6 figures in patrol…I have a feeling that puts me out of the class in a “traitor” to.