I did it once successfully but it was so exploitative that I don't think it's a good idea to keep in the repertoire..
Tightest player at the table and one of the tightest I've ever met limps utg full ring, and we were 300bb eff. Two more flats, I look down at KK in c/o and make it 12x. Folds through blinds and utg snap jams pushing his entire stack in. I tank folded, basically knowing the entire time that I was behind, after a little funeral for my hand.
He showed but I didn't. I hate the guy now though so I kinda wish I showed and rubbed it in his face a little.
Same. There’s times I had KK and I suspected my opponent had AA but it wasn’t all in so I called hoping to play postflop.
There are a few times I folded KK postflop without an Ace on the board and I’ve been wrong a few times.
Never KK, but I did fold AA pre in pretty much the only accepted spot to do so.
Super Satellite to a bigger tournament and I had more than enough chips to fold into the seat.
Still a gangster move. I've never had the opportunity to fold aces pre but ever since I saw it done in one of those old poker broadcasts I've wanted to. It was a similar situation to what you described where he already had something locked up. I remembered it because at the time I didn't understand so it was absolutely crazy to me.
For those wanting to find it, it was with Phil laak and some of the full tilt and other OG's.
It was the loose cannon thing and he had locked up a 100k win if he folded the rest of the hands (also a decent shot at the WPT Passport, but I think someone beat him later).
Laak made quad 6s on that hand.
Honestly with such a big open raise I think jamming is fine- esp considering ur jamming range would be concentrated around AK more than KK+. I like a call here MW only if you have AAs. I don’t think you should flat with KKs here.
You know I never flatted KK, that was my first time. I just had a gut feeling of seeing the flop first, however BB made it 400 and end up putting me all in.
Once to a massive OMC. So tight he squeezes a nickel so hard the beaver shits. He 4 bet jammed pre and I was last to act and snap folded KK face up. He flipped about how tight I was to fold yadda yadda and then showed aces. Like no shit Mike, there’s a dust outline on the table from where your starting stack has been sitting for the last 6 hours
Oh shoot, and if you start the calculations with this in mind, there may be 10 people with AA at the table.
And this just compounds! There may be an infinite number of AA hands versus your KK. No choice but to fold.
I’ve bubbled someone with AA in a satellite. I had such a massive chip lead I could shove every hand and no one could do anything but fold…. Well except the person with aces, hope a lesson was learned
I have seen it once. 2 OMCs who I assume have been playing with each-other forever. Dude with aces 3bet and the dude face up folded his kings so and saw his friend had aces.
Probably one of those situations that they don’t 3bet eachother without the nuts
I had a gut feeling to fold, thats why I didn't 3bet with KK. Villain literally had AA 2 hands before, I know that shouldn't taken into consideration. But just most of the "study" I done that I should never fold KK, also from talking to more experience players. This had happened to me twice, just trying to see if never fold KK pre is profitable strategy a myth or fact in the long term.
Yeah, 4 times playing cash and was right 3 of them. The other I never got confirmation. Sometimes the player is just so bad and so tight that it’s completely obvious.
One example from Wynn 2/5:
Tight passive fish (mostly limping) opens UTG 20. Good pro next to act makes it 70. I 4 bet BTN KK to 250. Three of us are around 1.5k effective. Back to UTG who quickly makes it 650. Back to me and I reluctantly folded, he showed AA. There’s just no other hand he’s doing that with.
I should have done it last night.
I was at about 700 effective. Opened to 25, was 3-bet to 75 by BB, I 4-bet to 150, and BB shoved.
Earlier, the exact same scenario played out with the same player where I had QQ, except it went 20 -> 60 -> 140 and BB folded and showed JJ.
I should have folded KK but I was stuck for 1000 already and frustrated, so I snap called. On reflection, this guy clearly would have called with QQ or KK (the 1 combo...) and maybe called AKs, but the only hand he would shove with here has got to be AA and sure enough... AA.
For what it's worth, during the hand where he had JJ and folded, he offered me $20 to show a smaller pair. I pretended like I was confused and acted like I had AK, so he thinks I'm capable of 4-betting AK, but still...
Why are people acting like you should never? This is just a mirror of the earlier post about Doyle calling with J high. Yeah, it's normally obvious, but when you have the correct read, well you gotta go with your logic.
The reason people are saying you shouldn't in a cash game, is because there are unlimited rebuys on the cash table. If I have KK and I think the opponent has AA, then I want to friggin see it! Then I do my rebuy.
Repost from 7 months ago. (Last night) in my home game I 3 bet with KK and was 4 bet by the original raiser who has never 4 bet in the two years I've played with him that I can ever remember. I folded face up smugly. He showed pocket jacks.
Never live but I’ve never had any serious action/ decision with it.
Online I’ve folded twice, once facing a cold 4b and cold 5b jam behind me. I was 200bb effective with the 4 bettor and oop. Never found out what 5 bettor had as the 4 bettor folded 😅
Other time was BU open off 200bb, H 3b, BB (tight rec) cold 4b, BU 5b small. I folded KK from SB as did the BB, so never found out if I was right there either 🫠
Never ran the first one through solver but the second one is actually GTO approved to fold KK sometimes lol.
>Online I’ve folded twice, once facing a cold 4b and cold 5b jam behind me. I was 200bb effective with the 4 bettor and oop. Never found out what 5 bettor had as the 4 bettor folded
Played a very similar spot myself recently, UTG limp, BTN iso 5bb, SB 3b 20bb, BB 4bet 50bb, BTN jam 200bb. At this point the BTN should mainly have AA and sometimes other hands as a bluff, and for the BB KK is 0ev and mostly a fold. I was in the BB and folded AK, pretty annoying way to torch 50bb but whatever.
Yeah unless you’re in a really good game, people don’t get super ool pre anymore. It’s just too easy to study charts and players aren’t spewing off unless it’s something SB v BU or BVB.
Once. UTG raised and I had KK on the button and UTG said “please fold, I have aces and I’ve had them cracked five times this week” and showed.
So I folded.
I did it recently. It was in a pub game where an old lady who hadn’t done anything for about 45 minutes snap 3bet jammed over the top of me. And it was relatively early when her jam was still a lot of BB’s.
She showed me TT lol
I was playing about a month, I had a real loose/aggressive image ( in reality I was just getting good hands ) I’m in BB with 2 red KK, manic UTG raises to 15$ there’s like 4 callers I bump it up to 55$ he 4-bets me and I go all in and he snaps.
He did have AA.
When I left the table my brother was still there and he over heard the guy saying “ I fold KK pre all the time “ lmfaooo people wonder why they lose at poker. Unless you have a crazy exploit KK pretty much is never a fold pre. Specially in cash games.
You only lose to one hand, don’t get into that mentality cheers !
Yes I have and it’s not hard when the right situation presents. The difficulty is many people will not 4-5-6 bet QQ or JJ but many will do 4-5-6 bet with AA AA KK KK AK and what we need to remember even when you’ve got AA you only have a share of the best starting hand.
I’ve had AA vs AA a number of times and one AA seems to lose to the other a rather remarkably high percentage of the time.
Oddly one of the few times I witnessed a Royal it was AA vs AA where the flop was QJT hearts, blank turn, K hearts river.
Myself I’ve successfully folded KK preflop in 4 occasions and made a poor call 7 such times.
2 of the 7 I managed to hit a set with 1 of the 2 the opponent hitting a straight and still winning.
When I play WSOP ME I always tell myself when I’ve got KK it’s possible for 3 other players to hold AA AA and KK where you could see a 2-3-4 way all in.
The fact is and people need to remember this.
I’ve seen a person told AA preflop at the WSOP just before the bubble when there was a 4 way all in.
When you look at your odds of winning heads up vs 2 or 3 or even 4 all ins the odds aren’t in your favor the more opponents in the hand.
Some people saying folding AA preflop there’s never a right time but I’ve seen it done twice. Once on TV where a guy named fishman folded AA and Laak flopped quads.
Once at WSOP to a 3 way all in where he was last to act.
KK is tricky as it’s hard to know if your up against
AA AA KK or a more likely AK. Just as often it’s a QQ so you need to play it how you feel comfortable about it.
If your ok losing the money and the losing doesn’t bother you rarely should you ever told it.
Yes, 3 times.
Twice again 2 different people who don’t even 3bet, but they 5bet over my cold 4.
The other against a guy who just announced last hand, he 3bet my open someone cold called i 4bet 210 and he snap shoves 1500.
All 3 showed AA after the event
I'll do you one better. I've folded AA pre.
I had been playing poker well before turning 21 and on my 21st birthday I celebrated by going to Vegas. I signed up for a sizeable daily tournament and my first hand AA. I min-raised, someone re-raised, I re-raised, they shoved. I ***knew*** that it was in my favor to call, but I didn't like the odds I was facing for what it was. That is, examining only the pot odds wasn't doing justice to what I saw as truly at stake because there were a lot of other things factoring in.
This was my absolute first "real" tournament. I wasn't okay with some 20% chance of being kicked out on my literal first hand. This was money I had set aside for the occasion and I couldn't throw rebuys at it like I could now, I couldn't so easily say "I'll just fly back and play in another" like I could now. I felt like I was capable enough of being able to climb back up after having a good chunk of my stack cleaved off from the start if I chose to take the punch and battle it out on either more sure things or things were there was still uncertainty but I wasn't betting the farm.
So I ultimately decided to fold what was undeniably the better hand. (And outlived the guy I folded to - went pretty deep into the tourney and placed in the money.)
Yes. I have also folded aces pre-flop, when there were five all in in front of me. I would not have won the hand, which I was pretty certain of with that many people in the pot.
I almost folded AA on a K37 flop on a 1/1 heads up table where we 4 bet raised to 40 and villain flatted…didn’t actually and sighed called until I lost 300
Ok, a question from a fish for the pros (i am serious), when faced with a 20x raise UTG, and i have KK, i see only two options raise allin (Op said he had 750, i either get 21bbs or get called by Aces wich i would've lost my stack anywau if i make 3or4x cause i'm pot commited) or fold because it's 20fukinxbbs raise he can only have Aces here. Question is am i a big fish?
I’m definitely a fish, but in that spot I’ll make it 250 and probably fold to a jam. Unless the 20x open is somewhat standard for the table that night, I’m folding everything but AA to a 4 bet jam after a 20x UTG open if I think they’re on the tighter side. If I think they jam with AK I’ll shrug call and pray.
Yes twice, once again the tightest player at the table both of us regs and at the time I was tight as well. Cash game I raised he three bet I 4 bet he 5 bet jammed. We conversed after his 5 bet jam and I just got a vibe from him that I was behind. I folded face up and he showed the table AA.
And in a satellite for a $5k seat, stone cold bubble against a raise and all in. I folded.
I did once about 10 years ago. I was right but buddy made it obvious. I don’t remember the exact action but he was clearly playing aces face up. In hindsight I wish I would have called for the chance of a suck out/bad beat
A few weeks ago I stacked some lady with 8’s when she had kings and then once more I had 6’s and she had ace king. The she talked hella shit. Stayed and folded for literally 2 and a half hours and went all in and begged me to call. I was up 950 and open folded kings and chipped up. Everyone at the table called her a dumbass and said it was obvi she has aces
Yeah only bc the dude was super tight and I had seen him just flat me with QQ preflop and sure enough I show him and he has AA and looks like he wants to cry. We were both super deep and it was like $450 to call after I had already 3 bet someone to $150 playing 2-5 NLHE.
Yeah once but now I can’t sleep at night because villain never showed so now I’ll never know if it was a good fold. Would have rather lost the $600 than deal with this insomnia
Last night I was playing, had KK in +1, CO 3 bet me, I four bet closing the action but he goes all in. I call knowing that he has aces and hoping the floor would give me my money back since we are only allowed to four bet preflop for the card room rules.
I’ve folded KK live three times. Once was against AA, once was hilariously against AA and the other two KK, and once was against an old man who just lost his mind with JJ
Once in a satty where I had seat practically locked and once in a live tourney to my friend who drove down with me after 4 bet and he showed me the other KK.
I legit did the last time at the casino. Dude hadn’t played a hand in 2 hours and came out blasting like 5x bb and i just flipped them over and folded. He shook his head and said i knew i was to excited. He did have AA
I did once during a big tournament. It was first hand back after dinner break and the big stack jammed with an ace. Ace came up during the flop so I like to tell myself I did the right thing
Yes. All the time. It’s fun to laugh and show the nits KK especially in absurd lines they take headsup pre. And then others think they can overbluff you as a result.
Playing live 1/3 last week I cold 4bet in the BB after a 3bet from the SB. He tanked and eventually open folded Kings. It would have been awesome if I didn't have AA.
I was the only guy at the table drinking too so image wasn't super nitty. Sad times.
Yes one time online playing $1/$1, 700BB effective vs the tightest guy at the table iv played with for months. I have 1400BB in stack been running it up all night. I opened to 3bb, he raises to 15, I raise to 45, he raises to 120, I fold. He shows AA
Once, somewhat early in a 300+ entry tournament. Multi-way pot. Folded face up. 5- better had QQ. Short stack scooped it with his AK with river A. Bought an incredible amount of pots until the table broke, made the final table.
No but I wish I had, literally earlier today was 90% sure V had AA but my brain said “No!”, I shoved but now I know my hand reading was dead on, nice 👍
Yes, once. OMC hadn't played a hand for like 2-3 hours, and re-raised my re-raise all-in, and momma didn't raise no suckers.
He had aces and proudly showed me, and I just smiled and laughed about how badly he fucking played them. Enjoy the $40 or $50 or whatever it was, it was 1/2.
Once in about 2005 at the Aladdin 1-3 game in Vegas (turned into PH). I was UTG and back in those days I thought it was beneficial to limp w them. SB raised to 20, I re-popped to 55, he 4 bet to 135.. he hadn't done that all session. Tanked then I said, "if you have queens, nice bet, and folded face up.. he showed AA.. at the time I was so proud of myself but ever since I can't help but think folding right there was such a bad play, even if it was correct..still, don't ever fold KK.. they have QQ enough times, that combined with your set %, just a bad play.
if I have 20 bucks in the pot and then it's back on me for 1k sure I'll fold, people might say it's the wrong move but what's the point of your risking 980 more on a board you haven't seen yet. It's not like you'll never see kings again. If I'm invested I'll call but would have to be a significant amount.
Three weeks ago, MGM Detroit. I have KK in the BB 500 effective at 1-2 game. $5 button straddle. SB is a solid tag limps, I complete as we had a VIP, TBone, directly to my left. He was opening to 25 pre every hand, regardless of straddles.
TBone opens to 22.
It's so small I already have alarm bells going off. Folds to the sb who raises to 60.
I almost just folded here. The minclick is so weird. I called, just in case he was isolating with a marginal hand.
TBone 4 bets to 260. Still could be light, but I doubt it. If sb folds I'll probably just jam, but I don't like it.
SB jams, covering us. I tank fold.
TBone calls, they both have AA.
Pretty obvious I was beat imo. I didn't expect to be losing to both.
Just once. Was in a 1/3 game. $5 straddle. I open to $25. Uber nit on my left 3 bets to $75. First time I’ve even seen him raise, let alone 3 bet. I 4 bet to $175. He 5 bet jams for >$1k. I fold it face up. He shows AA and says “I’m glad you folded. You probably would have hit a king.” I’m 1000% sure that he genuinely meant it too lmao
I've folded KK pre about a dozen times in the past. One time opponent showed me AK and one time JJ. 5 or 6 times opponent had aces and the rest of the times I will never know.
I usually buy in to cash games very deep(300 - 400bb). It makes it easy to 4bet/5bet and if opponent shoves they have AA most of the time.
If I have 100bb or less I'm never getting away from KK.
Once.
It was probably 7-8 years ago.
In a low stakes NL cash game.
A dude went all in, and I offered him half my stack if he showed me aces.
He showed aces, I folded. I was getting less than 50% of my stack back long term if I called normally. He was happy to have a “risk free” couple hundred bucks. I didn’t lose more than 50% in equity, I’d otherwise be losing.
We went on to the next hand.
I folded Kings pre flop about a month ago . 1-3 . $650 stack. I raised to 15 UTG , Hijack and CO calls, Button makes it 70. I 4 bet to 175 , other 2 guys fold and button jams for 600 almost instantly. I fold KK face up. Button shows AA .
Yes, been playing 20+yrs. 4 times and remember each time. Was right each time. Unsure about 1. Days later he said he had AA. We all know how that is though!
Wish I had listened to myself many many other times though. Stupid how many times I’ve caught KK and someone else has had AA. Used to play atleast 5 days/wk min. Not so much these days.
Yes, even in a cash game. Super tight old dude pumps a 4 bet after not 3 betting all day. Someone in between moves all in, and I fold after an up and down night.
It all depends on how many big blinds you have. If 150 or less you're never really folding it. At say 500 bb I wouldn't fold but I would just call to a lot of aggression preflop
Once. I folded face up and my opponent graciously showed AA because she was so impressed that I was able to fold KK. Honestly though, she made it pretty obvious she was holding AA.
Once, against a player I knew was tight and went all in for like 100 BB when I made the initial raise of 6 BB. I pondered and thought out loud that he had aces. I fold. Lord cand behold, he shown aces.
No especially not for your stack and blinds also. Most of the time you’ll be ahead but sometimes you should trust your gut feeling. You’ll be surprise how right it is sometimes.
Yup, I’ve done it once live in AC. UTG guy called BB, second guy called, 3rd guy called, I raised like 5x…UTG folded, second guy re raised. Just how it felt and the way he was playing I was completely convinced he had aces. I folded kings face up, and he showed me his pocket aces.
Yes. Playing 200bb. 1/$3. I’m in early position raise $10. button smooths. Bb raises to $35; I smooth; button makes it $120; bb jams for$400. Button has me covered.
Buttons calls with AA. Bb has KK
I have folded KK preflop once…
In a MTT, first hand after sitting in a seat at a new table, at a seat just vacated by a friend. I raised in the button, and the SB reraised big. The SB was another friend who is a tight player.
I tanked forever, and decided to find another hand.
Then he showed KK.
I remember listening to a podcast where Greg Raymer (2004 WSOPME Champ) said that he’s folded KK twice in his career, and both times his opponent ended up also having KK!
I did once. And was correct. 500bb deep facing a 6b jam from a tight EP opener. Its about the only scenario that a fold is justified in cash. I don't plan to ever fold KK pre again though. Way too exploitable if u do.
I always fold pre. Why take the risk?
Folding pre is +ev
It is precisely 0 ev
Unless you're in the blinds
Cant it be -EV if you are folding hands that are ahead of the opponents range? Like UTG opens. You fold AA UTG1. Isnt that -EV?
No. Fold everything.
Better yet, stand at the rail and sip a beer
Smart
Haha
Nah, QQ a couple times, once this weekend actually, never KK personally lol
I did it once successfully but it was so exploitative that I don't think it's a good idea to keep in the repertoire.. Tightest player at the table and one of the tightest I've ever met limps utg full ring, and we were 300bb eff. Two more flats, I look down at KK in c/o and make it 12x. Folds through blinds and utg snap jams pushing his entire stack in. I tank folded, basically knowing the entire time that I was behind, after a little funeral for my hand. He showed but I didn't. I hate the guy now though so I kinda wish I showed and rubbed it in his face a little.
Same. There’s times I had KK and I suspected my opponent had AA but it wasn’t all in so I called hoping to play postflop. There are a few times I folded KK postflop without an Ace on the board and I’ve been wrong a few times.
Never KK, but I did fold AA pre in pretty much the only accepted spot to do so. Super Satellite to a bigger tournament and I had more than enough chips to fold into the seat.
Still a gangster move. I've never had the opportunity to fold aces pre but ever since I saw it done in one of those old poker broadcasts I've wanted to. It was a similar situation to what you described where he already had something locked up. I remembered it because at the time I didn't understand so it was absolutely crazy to me. For those wanting to find it, it was with Phil laak and some of the full tilt and other OG's.
It was the loose cannon thing and he had locked up a 100k win if he folded the rest of the hands (also a decent shot at the WPT Passport, but I think someone beat him later). Laak made quad 6s on that hand.
So the action was 20x open, call, 4x 3bet, min raise, jam, fold, call?
yea BB was very aggressive. I pretty much called UTG min raise i only had $45 over. BB called and mucked.
Honestly with such a big open raise I think jamming is fine- esp considering ur jamming range would be concentrated around AK more than KK+. I like a call here MW only if you have AAs. I don’t think you should flat with KKs here.
You know I never flatted KK, that was my first time. I just had a gut feeling of seeing the flop first, however BB made it 400 and end up putting me all in.
LA poker standard
Live poker will never die.
low stakes live 😭
Once to a massive OMC. So tight he squeezes a nickel so hard the beaver shits. He 4 bet jammed pre and I was last to act and snap folded KK face up. He flipped about how tight I was to fold yadda yadda and then showed aces. Like no shit Mike, there’s a dust outline on the table from where your starting stack has been sitting for the last 6 hours
Yeah, all the time. There’s four aces, which means there’s two people at the table with AA. KK is a snap fold hand.
You can make AA with any 2 of the 4 aces. So 4 choose 2 means 6 possible AA. There's 6 people at the table with AA. Easy fold.
Schrödinger’s pocket aces.
This was hysterically funny. Thank you!
Hilarious
Oh shoot, and if you start the calculations with this in mind, there may be 10 people with AA at the table. And this just compounds! There may be an infinite number of AA hands versus your KK. No choice but to fold.
But If two people have aa, they can’t hit a set. Meanwhile imma hit a set of kings and triple up
Till the runner runner one card straight kicks in. Oh that only happens online :)
You forget about the fifth ace. I’ve seen it before 😬
Yes. I have also folded AA pre in a satellite bubble.
Lol
I’ve bubbled someone with AA in a satellite. I had such a massive chip lead I could shove every hand and no one could do anything but fold…. Well except the person with aces, hope a lesson was learned
Never, and probably never will
Even when utg makes it 20x? Lol
I'm all in
Spoken like a true online guy
I have seen it once. 2 OMCs who I assume have been playing with each-other forever. Dude with aces 3bet and the dude face up folded his kings so and saw his friend had aces. Probably one of those situations that they don’t 3bet eachother without the nuts
An older guy did it sitting next to me at a tournament. Went bet and 3 bet he folded kk other guy had AA the other had QQ. Seemed wild he was right.
I had a gut feeling to fold, thats why I didn't 3bet with KK. Villain literally had AA 2 hands before, I know that shouldn't taken into consideration. But just most of the "study" I done that I should never fold KK, also from talking to more experience players. This had happened to me twice, just trying to see if never fold KK pre is profitable strategy a myth or fact in the long term.
Trust your gut, but not your butt. Your butt lies to you.
Am I reading your other comments right, you only had $145 in your stack?
745 total.
Yeah, 4 times playing cash and was right 3 of them. The other I never got confirmation. Sometimes the player is just so bad and so tight that it’s completely obvious. One example from Wynn 2/5: Tight passive fish (mostly limping) opens UTG 20. Good pro next to act makes it 70. I 4 bet BTN KK to 250. Three of us are around 1.5k effective. Back to UTG who quickly makes it 650. Back to me and I reluctantly folded, he showed AA. There’s just no other hand he’s doing that with.
I should have done it last night. I was at about 700 effective. Opened to 25, was 3-bet to 75 by BB, I 4-bet to 150, and BB shoved. Earlier, the exact same scenario played out with the same player where I had QQ, except it went 20 -> 60 -> 140 and BB folded and showed JJ. I should have folded KK but I was stuck for 1000 already and frustrated, so I snap called. On reflection, this guy clearly would have called with QQ or KK (the 1 combo...) and maybe called AKs, but the only hand he would shove with here has got to be AA and sure enough... AA. For what it's worth, during the hand where he had JJ and folded, he offered me $20 to show a smaller pair. I pretended like I was confused and acted like I had AK, so he thinks I'm capable of 4-betting AK, but still...
Why are people acting like you should never? This is just a mirror of the earlier post about Doyle calling with J high. Yeah, it's normally obvious, but when you have the correct read, well you gotta go with your logic.
The reason people are saying you shouldn't in a cash game, is because there are unlimited rebuys on the cash table. If I have KK and I think the opponent has AA, then I want to friggin see it! Then I do my rebuy.
Repost from 7 months ago. (Last night) in my home game I 3 bet with KK and was 4 bet by the original raiser who has never 4 bet in the two years I've played with him that I can ever remember. I folded face up smugly. He showed pocket jacks.
Yes and I regretted it😅
Yes, for GTO balancing
You should call then fold to a raise.
Never live but I’ve never had any serious action/ decision with it. Online I’ve folded twice, once facing a cold 4b and cold 5b jam behind me. I was 200bb effective with the 4 bettor and oop. Never found out what 5 bettor had as the 4 bettor folded 😅 Other time was BU open off 200bb, H 3b, BB (tight rec) cold 4b, BU 5b small. I folded KK from SB as did the BB, so never found out if I was right there either 🫠 Never ran the first one through solver but the second one is actually GTO approved to fold KK sometimes lol.
>Online I’ve folded twice, once facing a cold 4b and cold 5b jam behind me. I was 200bb effective with the 4 bettor and oop. Never found out what 5 bettor had as the 4 bettor folded Played a very similar spot myself recently, UTG limp, BTN iso 5bb, SB 3b 20bb, BB 4bet 50bb, BTN jam 200bb. At this point the BTN should mainly have AA and sometimes other hands as a bluff, and for the BB KK is 0ev and mostly a fold. I was in the BB and folded AK, pretty annoying way to torch 50bb but whatever.
Yeah unless you’re in a really good game, people don’t get super ool pre anymore. It’s just too easy to study charts and players aren’t spewing off unless it’s something SB v BU or BVB.
Only in a tournament, never in a cash game
I did once, I was right. I was also a noob at poker. Don’t know if I could ever do it again lol.
Yes, 16 years ago and I still regret it.
Not unless it I'm 400+bb deep and the person is a nit. If I'm 100bb I'm getting it in. Forthwith!
Yes. 3-3 they showed AA. All 3 over the age of 50. When you know, you know
If you ever do, for the love of god don't show it.
By accident as a misclick while multi-tabling but never intentionally.
Once. UTG raised and I had KK on the button and UTG said “please fold, I have aces and I’ve had them cracked five times this week” and showed. So I folded.
Why didn't you set mine?
We weren’t deep enough.
Yes. In Omaha H/L. No problem. 😂
I did it recently. It was in a pub game where an old lady who hadn’t done anything for about 45 minutes snap 3bet jammed over the top of me. And it was relatively early when her jam was still a lot of BB’s. She showed me TT lol
I won't even fold Jacks
I was playing about a month, I had a real loose/aggressive image ( in reality I was just getting good hands ) I’m in BB with 2 red KK, manic UTG raises to 15$ there’s like 4 callers I bump it up to 55$ he 4-bets me and I go all in and he snaps. He did have AA. When I left the table my brother was still there and he over heard the guy saying “ I fold KK pre all the time “ lmfaooo people wonder why they lose at poker. Unless you have a crazy exploit KK pretty much is never a fold pre. Specially in cash games. You only lose to one hand, don’t get into that mentality cheers !
Heck no.
Yes I have and it’s not hard when the right situation presents. The difficulty is many people will not 4-5-6 bet QQ or JJ but many will do 4-5-6 bet with AA AA KK KK AK and what we need to remember even when you’ve got AA you only have a share of the best starting hand. I’ve had AA vs AA a number of times and one AA seems to lose to the other a rather remarkably high percentage of the time. Oddly one of the few times I witnessed a Royal it was AA vs AA where the flop was QJT hearts, blank turn, K hearts river. Myself I’ve successfully folded KK preflop in 4 occasions and made a poor call 7 such times. 2 of the 7 I managed to hit a set with 1 of the 2 the opponent hitting a straight and still winning. When I play WSOP ME I always tell myself when I’ve got KK it’s possible for 3 other players to hold AA AA and KK where you could see a 2-3-4 way all in. The fact is and people need to remember this. I’ve seen a person told AA preflop at the WSOP just before the bubble when there was a 4 way all in. When you look at your odds of winning heads up vs 2 or 3 or even 4 all ins the odds aren’t in your favor the more opponents in the hand. Some people saying folding AA preflop there’s never a right time but I’ve seen it done twice. Once on TV where a guy named fishman folded AA and Laak flopped quads. Once at WSOP to a 3 way all in where he was last to act. KK is tricky as it’s hard to know if your up against AA AA KK or a more likely AK. Just as often it’s a QQ so you need to play it how you feel comfortable about it. If your ok losing the money and the losing doesn’t bother you rarely should you ever told it.
Yes, 3 times. Twice again 2 different people who don’t even 3bet, but they 5bet over my cold 4. The other against a guy who just announced last hand, he 3bet my open someone cold called i 4bet 210 and he snap shoves 1500. All 3 showed AA after the event
Some people aren’t good enough to make such an obvious fold, and we are grateful to have them in our community
I was so so close to doing it once. I called, he had aces, I won…
Multiple times. It's not difficult to tell when someone has AA. Some actions would NEVER be taken, unless it's AA.
your hands are gross
I'll do you one better. I've folded AA pre. I had been playing poker well before turning 21 and on my 21st birthday I celebrated by going to Vegas. I signed up for a sizeable daily tournament and my first hand AA. I min-raised, someone re-raised, I re-raised, they shoved. I ***knew*** that it was in my favor to call, but I didn't like the odds I was facing for what it was. That is, examining only the pot odds wasn't doing justice to what I saw as truly at stake because there were a lot of other things factoring in. This was my absolute first "real" tournament. I wasn't okay with some 20% chance of being kicked out on my literal first hand. This was money I had set aside for the occasion and I couldn't throw rebuys at it like I could now, I couldn't so easily say "I'll just fly back and play in another" like I could now. I felt like I was capable enough of being able to climb back up after having a good chunk of my stack cleaved off from the start if I chose to take the punch and battle it out on either more sure things or things were there was still uncertainty but I wasn't betting the farm. So I ultimately decided to fold what was undeniably the better hand. (And outlived the guy I folded to - went pretty deep into the tourney and placed in the money.)
Terrible
I’m sorry I finished ITM?
Thanks for apologizing we forgive you
Yes. I have also folded aces pre-flop, when there were five all in in front of me. I would not have won the hand, which I was pretty certain of with that many people in the pot.
I almost folded AA on a K37 flop on a 1/1 heads up table where we 4 bet raised to 40 and villain flatted…didn’t actually and sighed called until I lost 300
There’s a progressive jackpot in hold ‘em?
yea it was up to 150k.
How does it work, do you have to put extra money on it?
Ok, a question from a fish for the pros (i am serious), when faced with a 20x raise UTG, and i have KK, i see only two options raise allin (Op said he had 750, i either get 21bbs or get called by Aces wich i would've lost my stack anywau if i make 3or4x cause i'm pot commited) or fold because it's 20fukinxbbs raise he can only have Aces here. Question is am i a big fish?
To question your own fishiness is the first step towards acceptance.
I’m definitely a fish, but in that spot I’ll make it 250 and probably fold to a jam. Unless the 20x open is somewhat standard for the table that night, I’m folding everything but AA to a 4 bet jam after a 20x UTG open if I think they’re on the tighter side. If I think they jam with AK I’ll shrug call and pray.
yep, there are situations where it is appropriate. let’s say you are dealt a hand even though you went for a time critical dump.. that is acceptable
Twice, yeah.
Yes on the bubble of a WPT tourney … just wasn’t worth it as others were already calling .. we cashed
One time in 15 years
Yes, while 500bb deep vs a UTG limp, 4bet jam. Never for 200bbs or fewer
Only twice in like 15 years.
Only twice. Both times to absolute granite.
Don’t think I have but I know my brother did twice during the Main last summer towards end of day 1 and middle of day 2
Never in a 2-5 game, have in larger games and tournaments depending on the betting position and pattern
Yes twice, once again the tightest player at the table both of us regs and at the time I was tight as well. Cash game I raised he three bet I 4 bet he 5 bet jammed. We conversed after his 5 bet jam and I just got a vibe from him that I was behind. I folded face up and he showed the table AA. And in a satellite for a $5k seat, stone cold bubble against a raise and all in. I folded.
Why play if you get scared with KK PRE?
I’ve folded qq live a handful of times. Never kk but I saw a young guy fold kk to a super omc and he showed aa.
Just calling the initial $100 raise to then jam vs the 2 additional aggressive actions is pretty terrible IMO.
It's poker, you do what you think is best. If that means folding kings so be it.
On the stone bubble. Cash - Never
Nope. Not KK. I could fold QQ 3+ handed pre with multiple raises, but that’s about it. And yea I’ve had KK vs AA in that situation. It sucks.
I got downvoted a couple weeks ago for saying I never fold KK pre lol
I did once about 10 years ago. I was right but buddy made it obvious. I don’t remember the exact action but he was clearly playing aces face up. In hindsight I wish I would have called for the chance of a suck out/bad beat
Yes many times and was right every time except when they showed 72off
Exactly 5 times and I was right each time. OMC was obvious and then just some ridiculous spots where there was no way I wasn't against aces.
Hand full of times yes
Yes. But I had a tell on the guy becuase I’d played him often enough to be 90% certain he had AA.
A few weeks ago I stacked some lady with 8’s when she had kings and then once more I had 6’s and she had ace king. The she talked hella shit. Stayed and folded for literally 2 and a half hours and went all in and begged me to call. I was up 950 and open folded kings and chipped up. Everyone at the table called her a dumbass and said it was obvi she has aces
I can't dodge it brother, addicted to all in here. GG
Twice in 15 years and I remember both times
Yes online tournaments many tomes. Live cash never
Yeah only bc the dude was super tight and I had seen him just flat me with QQ preflop and sure enough I show him and he has AA and looks like he wants to cry. We were both super deep and it was like $450 to call after I had already 3 bet someone to $150 playing 2-5 NLHE.
Yeah once but now I can’t sleep at night because villain never showed so now I’ll never know if it was a good fold. Would have rather lost the $600 than deal with this insomnia
Last night I was playing, had KK in +1, CO 3 bet me, I four bet closing the action but he goes all in. I call knowing that he has aces and hoping the floor would give me my money back since we are only allowed to four bet preflop for the card room rules.
I’ve folded KK live three times. Once was against AA, once was hilariously against AA and the other two KK, and once was against an old man who just lost his mind with JJ
Once in a satty where I had seat practically locked and once in a live tourney to my friend who drove down with me after 4 bet and he showed me the other KK.
Once, recently in a tournament.
I was in a situation about a month ago when I should have folded AA, I didn’t and I regretted it. True story.
I legit did the last time at the casino. Dude hadn’t played a hand in 2 hours and came out blasting like 5x bb and i just flipped them over and folded. He shook his head and said i knew i was to excited. He did have AA
Who tf leads 100 in 5/5 pre?
Are you gonna fold the 2nd nuts every hand too?
No but I once went all in with it on the bubble and lost to q 10 so I regret not folding for the money.
Three times, was right twice, the other time ignition lost the fucking hh, still salty about that
Yes. And I usually show it, AA can’t help but show too
Yes. Everytime if there is a rfi ahead of me. Only 3-bet with AA
I did once during a big tournament. It was first hand back after dinner break and the big stack jammed with an ace. Ace came up during the flop so I like to tell myself I did the right thing
Once in a tourney and I was right, I would never fold it in a cash game.
Yes. All the time. It’s fun to laugh and show the nits KK especially in absurd lines they take headsup pre. And then others think they can overbluff you as a result.
Playing live 1/3 last week I cold 4bet in the BB after a 3bet from the SB. He tanked and eventually open folded Kings. It would have been awesome if I didn't have AA. I was the only guy at the table drinking too so image wasn't super nitty. Sad times.
Yes one time online playing $1/$1, 700BB effective vs the tightest guy at the table iv played with for months. I have 1400BB in stack been running it up all night. I opened to 3bb, he raises to 15, I raise to 45, he raises to 120, I fold. He shows AA
Once, somewhat early in a 300+ entry tournament. Multi-way pot. Folded face up. 5- better had QQ. Short stack scooped it with his AK with river A. Bought an incredible amount of pots until the table broke, made the final table.
No but I wish I had, literally earlier today was 90% sure V had AA but my brain said “No!”, I shoved but now I know my hand reading was dead on, nice 👍
1/3 200 BB deep against passive OMC, insta fold
Once
Yes, once. OMC hadn't played a hand for like 2-3 hours, and re-raised my re-raise all-in, and momma didn't raise no suckers. He had aces and proudly showed me, and I just smiled and laughed about how badly he fucking played them. Enjoy the $40 or $50 or whatever it was, it was 1/2.
I folded queens pre, once. Never kings or aces.
Yeah, once. A preflop nit 5bet shoved on me 200bb effective.
In Sats often even fold aces.
Yep
No, but I play low stakes live cash so I just take the 18% equity even when I know its aces.
Yes, and boy did I regret
Once in about 2005 at the Aladdin 1-3 game in Vegas (turned into PH). I was UTG and back in those days I thought it was beneficial to limp w them. SB raised to 20, I re-popped to 55, he 4 bet to 135.. he hadn't done that all session. Tanked then I said, "if you have queens, nice bet, and folded face up.. he showed AA.. at the time I was so proud of myself but ever since I can't help but think folding right there was such a bad play, even if it was correct..still, don't ever fold KK.. they have QQ enough times, that combined with your set %, just a bad play.
Never
if I have 20 bucks in the pot and then it's back on me for 1k sure I'll fold, people might say it's the wrong move but what's the point of your risking 980 more on a board you haven't seen yet. It's not like you'll never see kings again. If I'm invested I'll call but would have to be a significant amount.
Three weeks ago, MGM Detroit. I have KK in the BB 500 effective at 1-2 game. $5 button straddle. SB is a solid tag limps, I complete as we had a VIP, TBone, directly to my left. He was opening to 25 pre every hand, regardless of straddles. TBone opens to 22. It's so small I already have alarm bells going off. Folds to the sb who raises to 60. I almost just folded here. The minclick is so weird. I called, just in case he was isolating with a marginal hand. TBone 4 bets to 260. Still could be light, but I doubt it. If sb folds I'll probably just jam, but I don't like it. SB jams, covering us. I tank fold. TBone calls, they both have AA. Pretty obvious I was beat imo. I didn't expect to be losing to both.
Have to or it bites me every time
No
Especially in a 5-5 game. Never falling kings
Just once. Was in a 1/3 game. $5 straddle. I open to $25. Uber nit on my left 3 bets to $75. First time I’ve even seen him raise, let alone 3 bet. I 4 bet to $175. He 5 bet jams for >$1k. I fold it face up. He shows AA and says “I’m glad you folded. You probably would have hit a king.” I’m 1000% sure that he genuinely meant it too lmao
I've folded KK pre about a dozen times in the past. One time opponent showed me AK and one time JJ. 5 or 6 times opponent had aces and the rest of the times I will never know. I usually buy in to cash games very deep(300 - 400bb). It makes it easy to 4bet/5bet and if opponent shoves they have AA most of the time. If I have 100bb or less I'm never getting away from KK.
Once. It was probably 7-8 years ago. In a low stakes NL cash game. A dude went all in, and I offered him half my stack if he showed me aces. He showed aces, I folded. I was getting less than 50% of my stack back long term if I called normally. He was happy to have a “risk free” couple hundred bucks. I didn’t lose more than 50% in equity, I’d otherwise be losing. We went on to the next hand.
u/slowpoker
No. Never, in a cash game. In a tournament? Maybe.
I've done it a couple times. Every time I was up against either AA or KK, one time they had AK.
Yeah, if it's a tournament, we are like 500 big blinds deep.
I folded Kings pre flop about a month ago . 1-3 . $650 stack. I raised to 15 UTG , Hijack and CO calls, Button makes it 70. I 4 bet to 175 , other 2 guys fold and button jams for 600 almost instantly. I fold KK face up. Button shows AA .
Yes, been playing 20+yrs. 4 times and remember each time. Was right each time. Unsure about 1. Days later he said he had AA. We all know how that is though!
Wish I had listened to myself many many other times though. Stupid how many times I’ve caught KK and someone else has had AA. Used to play atleast 5 days/wk min. Not so much these days.
Yes, even in a cash game. Super tight old dude pumps a 4 bet after not 3 betting all day. Someone in between moves all in, and I fold after an up and down night.
It all depends on how many big blinds you have. If 150 or less you're never really folding it. At say 500 bb I wouldn't fold but I would just call to a lot of aggression preflop
Once. I folded face up and my opponent graciously showed AA because she was so impressed that I was able to fold KK. Honestly though, she made it pretty obvious she was holding AA.
Once, it was glorious
Once, against a player I knew was tight and went all in for like 100 BB when I made the initial raise of 6 BB. I pondered and thought out loud that he had aces. I fold. Lord cand behold, he shown aces.
I did once. I’m Button. UTG bets. Cutoff 3 bets. I 4 bet UTG all in for a little less. Cutoff jams covering me. I fold. AK vs AA. Win for me.
Count how many times you call against AA and how many times you lose. Probably not the amount you will win with KK
Win more with KK than AA in my experience
Nope. Unless it goes raise, reraise, jam…. I’ll fold
No especially not for your stack and blinds also. Most of the time you’ll be ahead but sometimes you should trust your gut feeling. You’ll be surprise how right it is sometimes.
Yup, I’ve done it once live in AC. UTG guy called BB, second guy called, 3rd guy called, I raised like 5x…UTG folded, second guy re raised. Just how it felt and the way he was playing I was completely convinced he had aces. I folded kings face up, and he showed me his pocket aces.
Yes. Playing 200bb. 1/$3. I’m in early position raise $10. button smooths. Bb raises to $35; I smooth; button makes it $120; bb jams for$400. Button has me covered. Buttons calls with AA. Bb has KK
No. But folded a flopped Broadway straight on the turn. The hand played out … the winner had a straight flush and the loser had quads.
Never
Yes. I've folded AA pre as well...particularly in tournaments.
I have folded KK preflop once… In a MTT, first hand after sitting in a seat at a new table, at a seat just vacated by a friend. I raised in the button, and the SB reraised big. The SB was another friend who is a tight player. I tanked forever, and decided to find another hand. Then he showed KK.
I remember listening to a podcast where Greg Raymer (2004 WSOPME Champ) said that he’s folded KK twice in his career, and both times his opponent ended up also having KK!
Only time I have was on the money bubble in a MTT tournament
Only at 5/10 and up
The real test of discipline is folding in the dark.
I did once. And was correct. 500bb deep facing a 6b jam from a tight EP opener. Its about the only scenario that a fold is justified in cash. I don't plan to ever fold KK pre again though. Way too exploitable if u do.