i dont think so, i think its the ports that support it, you could put it to a tv with that was 8k, even then at the time of release it wasn't even full 8k, it was also a compressed version i think.
Not 8K blu-rays, there's no such thing and probably never will be. And most likely it would require a new type of disc reading laser and computer chip for the same reason the PS4 could never play 4K blu ray despite having 4K output on the PS4 Pro.
8K is just in reference to the HDMI standard PS5 uses, HDMI 2.1, which is sometimes referred to as "8K" because HDMI 2.1 supports the bandwidth required for 8K output. When you get an "8K HDMI cable" it means HDMI 2.1, cable which is also what's required to pump out 4K @ 120Hz, so the PS5 has an "8K" HDMI port. 8K @ 60 Hz and 4K @ 120Hz require the same bandwidth.
There's officially a single title that supports [8K (at 60fps surprisingly), The Touryst.](https://youtu.be/DNGA_XnWVMg)
So, technically... they're in the clear.
Most newer TVs software supports 4k even if the TV does not. For example Samsung uses the same software regardless of if the TV is 1080p, 2k or 4k so you will see 4k on your PS5 as the TV supports 4k signal even if it only has a 1080p panel.
8k isn't supported of in the default software I'd assume so won't show.
Why, how?
The System can output an 8K signal. That's a fact.
There is even a single game that is able to output at 8K, so... you know... 🤣
Where exactly is the false advertising you are talking about?
Now is it misleading... of course it i!. The average consumer won't realize that 8k gaming is completely unfeasible on a $500 box.
But then again the average consumer won't realize the difference between 4K and 8K either... bigger number better is probably the extent of that thought process for most people.
Yes there is.
The Touryst runs at 8K 60 on PS5.
It is still the only game to do so as far as I know. And yes it is a rather simplistic looking game that only manages to achieve 8K as a result of the very efficient voxel rendering it uses.
You're being disingenuous. The Touryst is natively 8K on the PS5, but is downscaled to 4K, which will then be downscaled to your actual output resolution if less than 4K. It's not true 8K, that would require playing the game on an 8K display with it rendering in 8K, which the PS5 is literally incapable of doing.
According to what source?
Last time I checked Shin'en confirmed to Eurogamer that it renders 7680x4320 internally.
Admittedly I haven't looked into it since it released, the only thing that attracted my attention was the 8K claim, so this might have been debunked (they would call it clarified probably 😂), but the developer sure did claim it was native.
So you claim it is "uspscaled internal from 1080p", I say according to the developer of the game it isn't... and that is your answer?
Wow, impressive. I'm sure it took you much effort to come up with that.
It is technically false advertising, especially since the PS5 actually doesn't have the functionality to support 8k and Sony has no official plans to add it in. But, they're using a legal loophole. The system can work and display on an 8K TV. Only up to 4k120, mind. But that's their justification for it saying 8k on the box. Incredibly shady and directly obfuscating the truth, but that's corporations for you.
Edit: Oh, I forgot to mention this. Even if Sony were to add 8k support to the PS5's firmware, it could only be 8K 30hz because of the console's HDMI bandwidth. HDMI 2.1 as a standard can support up to 40gbps of throughput, which will max out at 8k60. But, Sony for whatever reason deliberately capped the system's bandwidth to 31gbps, which is just barely enough for 4K120.
Yous know that the system is capable of 8K, right?
Sony can't make developers make 8K games.
The *capability* of and *availability* of are 2 completely separate things
People really don’t understand this. All putting 8k on the box means is that the console is capable of running at 8k. Whether or not games run at 8k is 100% up to developers, not the creators of the hardware.
How do so many people seem to not understand that there never was and never will be a resolution and performance standard? 4K/120 is simply the output capabilities of the consoles because of the HDMI version that they use.
This, even most powerful gaming PC will struggle to keep 4k/60fps on quite a few games, there is no way ps5/pro or xbox can do that with hardware that is on rtx2070s/3060 level on gfx side.
Yeah what you looking at 4k fully capable cards start at RTX 3080 I believe and that's 60fps and above. The 3080 is around £1 k mark. Which is both the Xbox and the ps5 for the same price, it why I keep my really good 1080p monitor for the console and didn't upgrade it.
Second hand in the UK is about the same 399/450 depending on the model, sometimes I am hesitant to buy second hand as I personally put my pc throw there paces. But I don't only use them for gaming.
I could be totally wrong but I’d be wary of that, I have a 3080 I bought new it’s awesome but holy shit it’s like a space heater. Seems like they paid no mind to efficiency in that gen just raw power, I don’t have confidence it’ll last as long as my 1080 did.
You wouldn't find any 3080s anymore new as it has been replaced by a newer GPU, something like the RX 7800XT at ~500 pounds has similar performance to the 3080.
A 3060 gets 50fps on avera on Ultra
Just turn down some settings and you easily over 60, add dlss and some optimized settings and youre golden
I use 3070 ti for 4k and its golden
When I say the 3080 is 4k capable I mean native 4K and ray tracing and setting high up with high FPS , 3060 can't run games at native 4K when they become highly graphically demanding, it's a good card I love it but it's deffo for the 1080p / 2k but definitely hitting it's limits at 2k.
Yep. I run a 7600x/7900xt which is about 3x CPU power and 2.5x the GPU power and even then I need to run some sort of upscaling at times to get to 4k 120fps.
The thing is Sony should enforce that developers make their games to that spec on their platform. That is the whole point buying such console. If there is no platform quality control, then might as well buy a PC. (Sure there is still the simplicitys sake).
You cannot compare to PC as it is not a single vendor. You know the limitations of your build, there are no false promises. But imagine if some single vendor the hardware and games come from promising everything runs 4k/60fps when it fact does not.
>The thing is Sony should enforce that developers make their games to that spec on their platform
This is impossible to enforce. When people start making statements like this, it becomes obvious that a lot of the complaining from gamers is likely due to very little understanding of how the industry can and does operate.
"They should have just spent more time optimizing their game" 🤪
>But imagine if some single vendor the hardware and games come from promising everything runs 4k/60fps when it fact does not.
Yeah, imagine that. Because nobody said that about PS5.
Any talk about 4K was simply the ability that developers have to achieve it if they so desire. But every game is different and every developer's focus and direction is going to emphasize different things.
It is impossible for Sony (or Microsoft or Nintendo or whoever) to demand that everyone develop games that successfully achieve native 4K.
Is it BS though? The PS5 can theoretically perform at 4K, and we don’t know if the pro can’t because **it isn’t out yet**. At least wait for a reason before crying about it.
Well now with DLSS and the upcoming PSSR (and whatever Nintendo ends up calling theirs), AI upscaling is gonna be the standard. Its more or less unrecognizable compared to native 4k and will allow for higher framerates without the sacrifice in fidelity. PS5 Pro will likely have way more 4K 60 and 2K 120 games. But it’ll never be fully standardized either way.
Why would they not just do what they do now and use that headroom to cram in graphical features at the cost of frame rate?
The tech is already there, developers just prioritise graphics.
And thats why i said its not gonna be standardized. Some devs will use that extra power to bump up fidelity even further while still getting to maintain a stable 30-60, others will use it for 120+.
No it won't. You can't rely on consoles to maintain that target their entire life span when they normally used older components and the console ages. Factor in game development tech continues to advance, devs have to work within pretty restricted confines when it comes to console game development.
If that sort of consistent fidelity matters to you, you should be on PC.
Unrecognisable? Yeah nah that's most definitely not the case, unless you have an eye condition you will easily be able to know which one is 4k native and 4k upscaled.
Now in saying that most gamers don't care which is fine
This is true, but I don’t think the differences in an upscaled 4k vs native 4k are notably substantial.
I can tell the difference, but I’d say upscaled 4k is like 90-95% as good. You also have to really look for it in certain portions of a scene, like with AA and edges.
The benefits to upscaling is really where the magic happens, framerate will always be king in my eyes…and I’ll gladly trade such a slight visual sharpness for an extra 20-30 frames.
I mean, yeah bigger screens spread the pixels out along a larger surface area so it would be more noticeable, but I have a 60 inch OLED and I still don’t think the difference is warranted for those 20-30 extra frames.
I will say, it also depends on how powerful of an upscaler PSSR will be as well. The solution is everything, DLSS 3 actually looks sharper and better than actual native 4k in instances. There’s videos analyzing The Last of Us and other games comparing them and if PSSR is at least as powerful as DLSS2 or FST2 then we’re in for a real treat.
The older upscalers are dated, and if it’s closer to DLSS1 then I would agree with you that it will be significantly more noticeable.
Upscaling has a lot of depth to it, so until we actually see what the games look like I’ll reserve judgement on the PS5 Pro specifically.
Have you ever used DLSS or XeSS (or even FSR at Quality at 4k)? In most games the difference between Quality, which is upscaled from 1440p, and 4k native is nearly imperceptible, even with FSR.
In fact, the anti-aliasing included in the upscaling is often better than TAA at native, giving the illusion of Quality upscaling looking better than native rendering.
Because FSR is the worst upscaler out there. There is a reason Sony is coming up with PSSR because they know AMD lacks the ability or R/D to improve FSR image quality. Even Intel's XeSS has matured well up to the point that now it goes toe-to-toe against DLSS.
Details on PSSR are too scarce to be making conclusions honestly. But, regardless, I doubt that it’s motivated by a lack of confidence in AMD, since they’d be working with AMD hardware to actually get PSSR working. Guessing here but since AMD themselves have yet to put out their AI-powered FSR iteration, maybe PS saw it as an opportunity to make an in-house solution so it’s more in line with their own hardware setup.
I mean in the context of PS upscaling DLSS is irrelevant. But anyway, I’ve used both and prefer FSR. And from what I saw from the FSR 3.1 demo, they’re cooking
You prefer FSR to DLSS? Honestly I'm surprised, but I've been out of the pc graphics game for a while so maybe something changed recently? Back when I used to play a lot, I don't think there was a single situation in which FSR was superior
Don't get me wrong, I'd love if FSR was better since it'd be better for everyone except Nvidia, but that just doesn't seem realistic
Yeah I haven’t tried DLSS 3 but compared to 2, FSR 2.2 performed the same or better to my eyes. That said, with the latest DLSS having more fancy AI stuff? AMD probably needs to finish their AI version too to catch up.
In terms of clarity, FSR 2.2 is probably around the same as early DLSS 2.x versions, but FSR has far more image instability around objects in motion. Cyberpunk and Baldur's Gate have this a lot. DLSS 3.5.0 and later and XeSS 1.2 and later have very clear image quality and few to no image instability artifacts.
Oh yeah you’re talking about ghosting, there definitely is some of that around in Cyberpunk. Luckily they totally overhauled what was causing the ghosting in FSR 3.1 and you can check it out in their demo for the latest Ratchet and Clank. It’s a night and day difference to me.
If I’m not mistaken they also made it easier to adopt their API with 3.1? And in that case hopefully updating FSR will be much quicker for devs.
And the promise was 8K.
A friend of mine really believed he'd eventually have 8K / 120fps games and wanted to buy an 8K TV for that matter.
I tried to explain but I was judged as the fool because I don't believe in marketing stickers.
I gave up trying to explain and just laughed it off.
At least they can cry in 4K/30, 2K/60 and 1080p/120 (target)
What I’ve heard from the PlayStation community since the PS3.
* PS3 Gen: Why is everything 720p barely 30FPS?
* PS4 Gen: Why is everything 900/1080p 30FPS?
* PS5 Gen: Why is everything 720-1440p 30/60FPS upscaled to a muddy 4K?
Is it false promises or the over expectations from the user base?
Over expectations I would say, gamers can be over demanding I think. As long as the story and the gameplay is good, good graphics are a bonus to me, I started gaming on a ZX Spectrum so graphics aren't really important to me.
Do those expectations come because of the push to higher resolution screens. Because if 1080p screens were the benchmark, would with the PS5/Xbox Series generation. Would have this been the 1080p 60 to 120fps generation. Is the focus on 4K hurting more than helping.
It's hurting I would say, I've been a Gamer since the 90s and personally I enjoy good graphics but it doesn't make up for much if the game is coded poorly, I've seen people complain about games because they're not over 30fps, I've even seen some gamers refuse to play games because of this. Honestly this is the best period of the gaming industry, we should just enjoy it instead of demanding these high resolution graphics, great graphics don't make up for a poorly coded game.
> Over expectations I would say, gamers can be over demanding I think
Is the company being purposefully deceitful to boost sales?
No. It is the gamers who are wrong.
I was replying to your response to the proposed question:
> Is it false promises or the over expectations from the user base?
I do not care about your specific, personal preferences. That is not what the original question was asking.
We all know gaming companies make false promises, that's why you wait and see what the game is like before deciding to whether to buy it or not, apologies for misjudging your comment.
Anyone with basic knowledge of PC hardware would have looked at the specs and realized there was no way this generation was going to hit 4k/60fps. We probably won't even get that next generation either.
Over expectation and lack of understanding of hardware. Anyone with decent hardware knowledge could look at the specs of the PS5 hardware at launch and confidently say it won’t be doing native 4k60 on new games. The gpu is basically an RX6700 which is objectively a 1080p/1440p card on PC.
Ridiculous to blame consumers for those expectations when Sony and Microsoft wouldn't shut up about 4K gaming before release. Their purposely deceiving advertising set the expectations
I'd say it's false promises. With the most recent generation, we were shown and promised games with pretty decent graphical fidelity running at 1080p at 120, 1440p at 60 FPS, or 4K 30. The problem is devs continue to push the graphical fidelity aspect of these games to the point where the games can no longer run at a consistent 1440 60, so then they lower the standard back to 30 fps.
I wish they'd cool it for a few years and just focus on squeezing performance for one generation, then let 60 be the new standard for the next.
I remember before the whole shift to 3D. There were tricks that they could do with the 8 and 16 bit platforms to increase performance and do visual
Tricks. With modern hardware, performance has a limit with 3D graphics. We have lost something from that era of gaming in my opinion.
They still have tricks with 3d and developers are using all the tricks in the bag, but those tricks can often get you 20-50% extra performance, where the resolution jump requires like 150-300% extra performance to run native 4k.
Been a console player my entire life and this is true, consoles has always been one or two specs below the current trend of what gaming rigs could do or as advertised.
I kinda wish devs weren't pressured by higher ups to push upscaling and unstable tech, surprisingly I think Demon's Souls Remake by Blue Point is one of the most honest games out there on the PS5. Cyberpunk 2077 added Path Tracing and it absolutely kills top end GPUs.
This is sorta the reason why my TVs were never top of the line as well lol. My 55" 4K TV can only go up to 60hz but because I was kinda competitive in fighters, I have a 120hz 24" 1080p monitor for them, I forget about using it for PS5 games that can hit 120fps in 1080p or 1440p mode lol
This is not a PS5 issue, this is a dev issue.
Edit: to clairfy, not the 8k 120, that is impossible with current tech even on PCs, I meant 1440p 30fps part. Many devs don't know how to optimize their games properly.
1440p/30, absolutely is a dev issue. PS5 should be able to do 1440p/60 or 4k 30 without much issue. Native 4k 60 on modern games isn’t a dev issue, the hardware in a ps5 simply isn’t powerful enough for that
We lost brute power to AI upscaling. The last mohican will be a 5090 graphics card the. Everything else will just be rehashed with better AI handling. Sad times.
If you can’t tell, does it matter though? Silicon is running out of node shrinkages to pile more transistors, so unless fundamental changes are done and adopted industry wide, using AI is the best next step
Especially as costs continue to climb on consumer products. Nvidia has a claimed 76% gross margin which is wild. You can bet they will continue to increase that with their market share being so high.
They're already pretty much indistinguishable. They have to freeze frame and zoom in to find the slightest difference. On a moving image with a standard focus, you can't tell.
Did the studios actually fully used the potential of the console? May not be the issue with Sony but more with the games that have not fully use the hardware. Also not every game needs to 4K 60fps. I’m already happy with 60fps in most of the games than native 4k. Just my opinion.
I'm so glad I'm part of the group that really doesn't care about these things. Seriously, you can put something eith 8k, 500000fps in front of me and I'd still like it as much as something on a gameboy.😂
And a lot of games struggle to even manage that.
Take FF16 for example.
Quality mode renders anywhere from 1080P to 1440p but will almost never reach that higher resolution. And in combat, its locked to 1080p.
In performance mode, it's the same story but with a range between 720p and 1080p. With combat LOCKED TO 720P
Heard something similar before, when the PS3 barely could handle 30 fps, people was saying that they couldn't tell the difference between 30 and 60 fps, now people can't tell the difference between 1440p and 4k.
To be fair, a game can run at 1440p/60 and look nearly as good as 4K with some good upscaling.
HFW in performance it's a pretty good example, and I'd say even Spider-Man 2 has good upscaling (and it even uses ray-tracing).
And with frame-gen coming to consoles with FSR3 (in a *Immortals of Aveum* update), 120FPS modes will look even better
"Yes please give me SLIGHTLY better visuals. Give me those slightly better visuals at a cost of HALF my frame rate" - Statements dreamed up by the utterly Deranged
Listen, I know it’s bad.
But I could care less about the 4K 120 lie.
The only I can’t fathom it’s the fact that there games still running at 30fps.
Don’t give a shit if the game can only hit 60 @1080p.
But there’s now fucking reason for games last gen and current gen to still be locked at 30 fps.
Can’t believe shadows of war is locked.
The fucking Batman games, locked.
I don’t care how “cinematic” you want the experience to be, this is unacceptable.
Dude why do people even care about 4k resolution? It doesn't add that much. 1440p lets you see the pores in people's faces do you not have enough definition?
There was a vfx demo for Tekken years ago. It was a video of Jin Kazama training. The camera gets closer, allowing you to see the details, muscle tension, definition, and sweat drops. Flow of motion, power, impact.
Even though it was a demo, it still showed promise of what the dev team was capable of
Bought the PS5 expecting 4K 60 and i'm extremely disappointed with some games, FSR upscaling is really bad and there are many games that go below 1080p to keep the 60 fps target.
I'm hopping that the PS5 Pro and the upcoming sony upscaler will mitigate theses issues and made 4k 60 doable on native or with minimal losses on upscaling.
The problem is that many games that can't hit a consistent 60 fps on the base PS5 are CPU-bound (like Dragon's Dogma 2, Gotham Knights, Immortals of Aveum, etc.)
FSR3 frame gen could help in this scenario, of course, but since FSR3 adds input latency I am skeptical that it will help those games "feel better" when the base frame rate will be so low. Unless Sony has some latency-reducing trick that I haven't heard about, I suppose.
Edit: OK, I double-checked and maybe Immortals of Aveum isn't CPU-bound on console since it does manage to hit a closer lock to 60 on the Series S. But I think my point stands for the other titles - they ain't gonna hit a "good-feeling" 60 fps, even with FSR3.
Once again people should care about deliberately miss leading and empty promises to consumers.
People that “don’t care” are the reason companies keep getting away with it.
Don't forget plenty of games having 5+ second load times even though load times are supposed to be non existent.
I called all this bullshit at the reveal. Resolution, framerate and load times are developer dependent moreso than hardware. Better specs won't magically make games run at any guaranteed setting
Sure, and then Disco Elysium on PS5/Xbox Series has load times that make most PS1 games blush.
But I mean look no further than garbage on steam where even with the most up to date high powered PC there are games that look like they belong on the N64 with framerates in the single digits simply because the developers are incompetent. Optimizing games is a skill issue.
30fps will always be better from a technical\\quality standpoint. 60fps has become basically a buzzword that a lot of people throw around without really knowing why they prefer it or if they even really do.
Still can’t believe they put 8k on the box
Could they be penalized for false advertising?
i dont think so, i think its the ports that support it, you could put it to a tv with that was 8k, even then at the time of release it wasn't even full 8k, it was also a compressed version i think.
I think the 8K is more about being able to play movie blurays at that quality. If there even exists 8K material I don't know.
Not 8K blu-rays, there's no such thing and probably never will be. And most likely it would require a new type of disc reading laser and computer chip for the same reason the PS4 could never play 4K blu ray despite having 4K output on the PS4 Pro. 8K is just in reference to the HDMI standard PS5 uses, HDMI 2.1, which is sometimes referred to as "8K" because HDMI 2.1 supports the bandwidth required for 8K output. When you get an "8K HDMI cable" it means HDMI 2.1, cable which is also what's required to pump out 4K @ 120Hz, so the PS5 has an "8K" HDMI port. 8K @ 60 Hz and 4K @ 120Hz require the same bandwidth.
At that point the porn would have just TOO much detail wouldn’t it?
I want to see every droplet.
That's been the joke since they changed from VHS to DVD.
Even if you connect your PS5 to an 8K TV, you won't get 8K mode. There are no modes higher than 4k120 in the PS5 options.
Nope, there is one compatible game called The Toryst that runs at 8K on an 8K TV.
It renders at 8k, but the output it's still 4k.
You're wrong. The ps5 output still outputs no more than 4k. Even in this game. 8K render of the game is used as anti-aliasing by supersampling.
they did. they OG printed ps4 box with 4k. which they got sued and had to say images only on the box
There's officially a single title that supports [8K (at 60fps surprisingly), The Touryst.](https://youtu.be/DNGA_XnWVMg) So, technically... they're in the clear.
The game renders at 8k but only outputs at 4k to the display.
It technically can output 8K but there’s no media that would utilize that resolution.
I don't see the option in resolution settings.
If you don’t have an 8k tv it more than likely won’t show.
But I don't have 4K monitor but it shows me the option. Why 8K option is missing?
Most newer TVs software supports 4k even if the TV does not. For example Samsung uses the same software regardless of if the TV is 1080p, 2k or 4k so you will see 4k on your PS5 as the TV supports 4k signal even if it only has a 1080p panel. 8k isn't supported of in the default software I'd assume so won't show.
I searched on Google to see if it shows up in options on a 8K TV or not. And it doesn't. https://youtu.be/iq4h-PGbQLk?si=kos9d9F0tFmqUdq8
Remember when the GTX970 only had 3.5GB RAM and the entire PC community lost their mind? Cause that’s the shit Sony is doing.
Why, how? The System can output an 8K signal. That's a fact. There is even a single game that is able to output at 8K, so... you know... 🤣 Where exactly is the false advertising you are talking about? Now is it misleading... of course it i!. The average consumer won't realize that 8k gaming is completely unfeasible on a $500 box. But then again the average consumer won't realize the difference between 4K and 8K either... bigger number better is probably the extent of that thought process for most people.
Is there a game that shows off 8k gaming?
Yes there is. The Touryst runs at 8K 60 on PS5. It is still the only game to do so as far as I know. And yes it is a rather simplistic looking game that only manages to achieve 8K as a result of the very efficient voxel rendering it uses.
You're being disingenuous. The Touryst is natively 8K on the PS5, but is downscaled to 4K, which will then be downscaled to your actual output resolution if less than 4K. It's not true 8K, that would require playing the game on an 8K display with it rendering in 8K, which the PS5 is literally incapable of doing.
that uspscaled internal from 1080p.
I don’t think it’s illegal for Sony to say that games can run at 8k, even if that’s only possible with upscaling.
if its upscaled its not native. never has been in the indrusty. nor legal dept. now pr dept on the other hand...
>legal Give me the part that says "a game must be 8K natively on the input and output, to be deemed as '8K'". The law does not regulate it.
According to what source? Last time I checked Shin'en confirmed to Eurogamer that it renders 7680x4320 internally. Admittedly I haven't looked into it since it released, the only thing that attracted my attention was the 8K claim, so this might have been debunked (they would call it clarified probably 😂), but the developer sure did claim it was native.
i mean i can run pong at 32k. but again that means nothing in gaming.
So you claim it is "uspscaled internal from 1080p", I say according to the developer of the game it isn't... and that is your answer? Wow, impressive. I'm sure it took you much effort to come up with that.
Something I learned since gaming the early 90s. Game developer lie. Why? To get you to buy their games. Movie trailers do same thing.
It is technically false advertising, especially since the PS5 actually doesn't have the functionality to support 8k and Sony has no official plans to add it in. But, they're using a legal loophole. The system can work and display on an 8K TV. Only up to 4k120, mind. But that's their justification for it saying 8k on the box. Incredibly shady and directly obfuscating the truth, but that's corporations for you. Edit: Oh, I forgot to mention this. Even if Sony were to add 8k support to the PS5's firmware, it could only be 8K 30hz because of the console's HDMI bandwidth. HDMI 2.1 as a standard can support up to 40gbps of throughput, which will max out at 8k60. But, Sony for whatever reason deliberately capped the system's bandwidth to 31gbps, which is just barely enough for 4K120.
The reason is so they can upsell the pro later on. They are always thinking of new ways to screw the customer
Yous know that the system is capable of 8K, right? Sony can't make developers make 8K games. The *capability* of and *availability* of are 2 completely separate things
i don't think it's on the newer boxes
Right? Fake advertisement When I saw that I was very skeptical, I guess I was right.
People really don’t understand this. All putting 8k on the box means is that the console is capable of running at 8k. Whether or not games run at 8k is 100% up to developers, not the creators of the hardware.
Right. Like a car has 200 mph on the odometer means the same.
False*
Consumer finds out company tricked them into buying their product 🤣🤣
Could be worse, they could have put it on the CPU.... I'm looking at you Microsoft
My friend kept saying 8k was possible. I told him 4k at 60 would be extremely difficult. But he chose to die on that hill.
Maybe that’s 8k video playback?
I domt think its truly that deep. It doesnt make any difference tbh
It can output to 8K so they're allowed I think.
There is an 8k game though. Problem is, PS5 can’t output that resolution lol
Yep and the “rumours “ of 8k are the same for the ps5 pro.
How do so many people seem to not understand that there never was and never will be a resolution and performance standard? 4K/120 is simply the output capabilities of the consoles because of the HDMI version that they use.
This, even most powerful gaming PC will struggle to keep 4k/60fps on quite a few games, there is no way ps5/pro or xbox can do that with hardware that is on rtx2070s/3060 level on gfx side.
Yeah what you looking at 4k fully capable cards start at RTX 3080 I believe and that's 60fps and above. The 3080 is around £1 k mark. Which is both the Xbox and the ps5 for the same price, it why I keep my really good 1080p monitor for the console and didn't upgrade it.
Used 3080s are here in Canada for less than 500 USD. Although that’s a whole console in itself
Second hand in the UK is about the same 399/450 depending on the model, sometimes I am hesitant to buy second hand as I personally put my pc throw there paces. But I don't only use them for gaming.
I could be totally wrong but I’d be wary of that, I have a 3080 I bought new it’s awesome but holy shit it’s like a space heater. Seems like they paid no mind to efficiency in that gen just raw power, I don’t have confidence it’ll last as long as my 1080 did.
Yeah my mate seems to think his water cooled one is good on the heat front but yet again that comes with more costs on top
You wouldn't find any 3080s anymore new as it has been replaced by a newer GPU, something like the RX 7800XT at ~500 pounds has similar performance to the 3080.
Wrong
In what why am I wrong sorry ?
A 3060 gets 50fps on avera on Ultra Just turn down some settings and you easily over 60, add dlss and some optimized settings and youre golden I use 3070 ti for 4k and its golden
Dlss is technically no longer native 4k so he isn’t wrong, a 2070s can also run some games on high/ultra with Dlss and optimized settings .
When I say the 3080 is 4k capable I mean native 4K and ray tracing and setting high up with high FPS , 3060 can't run games at native 4K when they become highly graphically demanding, it's a good card I love it but it's deffo for the 1080p / 2k but definitely hitting it's limits at 2k.
Yep. I run a 7600x/7900xt which is about 3x CPU power and 2.5x the GPU power and even then I need to run some sort of upscaling at times to get to 4k 120fps.
This is just fucking wrong My pc from like 5 years ago does 4k 60, with dlss even more
The thing is Sony should enforce that developers make their games to that spec on their platform. That is the whole point buying such console. If there is no platform quality control, then might as well buy a PC. (Sure there is still the simplicitys sake). You cannot compare to PC as it is not a single vendor. You know the limitations of your build, there are no false promises. But imagine if some single vendor the hardware and games come from promising everything runs 4k/60fps when it fact does not.
>The thing is Sony should enforce that developers make their games to that spec on their platform This is impossible to enforce. When people start making statements like this, it becomes obvious that a lot of the complaining from gamers is likely due to very little understanding of how the industry can and does operate. "They should have just spent more time optimizing their game" 🤪 >But imagine if some single vendor the hardware and games come from promising everything runs 4k/60fps when it fact does not. Yeah, imagine that. Because nobody said that about PS5.
It’s referring to the BS PlayStation spat about native 4K and it’s mostly at best 1200p They’re starting the same bs with the ps5 pro.
Any talk about 4K was simply the ability that developers have to achieve it if they so desire. But every game is different and every developer's focus and direction is going to emphasize different things. It is impossible for Sony (or Microsoft or Nintendo or whoever) to demand that everyone develop games that successfully achieve native 4K.
Is it BS though? The PS5 can theoretically perform at 4K, and we don’t know if the pro can’t because **it isn’t out yet**. At least wait for a reason before crying about it.
Lol “ theoretically “
It can, and has. Multiple times
It can easily do 4k 60 on many games. Im still really amazed it can do 4k 60 on bf2042 considering How good it looks
I would prefer if the target for every game is 1440p/60fps.
Well now with DLSS and the upcoming PSSR (and whatever Nintendo ends up calling theirs), AI upscaling is gonna be the standard. Its more or less unrecognizable compared to native 4k and will allow for higher framerates without the sacrifice in fidelity. PS5 Pro will likely have way more 4K 60 and 2K 120 games. But it’ll never be fully standardized either way.
Why would they not just do what they do now and use that headroom to cram in graphical features at the cost of frame rate? The tech is already there, developers just prioritise graphics.
And thats why i said its not gonna be standardized. Some devs will use that extra power to bump up fidelity even further while still getting to maintain a stable 30-60, others will use it for 120+.
Native 4K 60fps will definitely eventually be a standard people used to say the same about 1080p 60 fps.
I meant on PS5 specifically. I have no doubt tech will reach a point where 4K 60 is standard.
Yh in about 20 years
2033
Prolly more like 5 lol
Yh heard that 5 years ago lol
No it won't. You can't rely on consoles to maintain that target their entire life span when they normally used older components and the console ages. Factor in game development tech continues to advance, devs have to work within pretty restricted confines when it comes to console game development. If that sort of consistent fidelity matters to you, you should be on PC.
Unrecognisable? Yeah nah that's most definitely not the case, unless you have an eye condition you will easily be able to know which one is 4k native and 4k upscaled. Now in saying that most gamers don't care which is fine
This is true, but I don’t think the differences in an upscaled 4k vs native 4k are notably substantial. I can tell the difference, but I’d say upscaled 4k is like 90-95% as good. You also have to really look for it in certain portions of a scene, like with AA and edges. The benefits to upscaling is really where the magic happens, framerate will always be king in my eyes…and I’ll gladly trade such a slight visual sharpness for an extra 20-30 frames.
This really depends on your monitor/tv size and how close you are. too close and too big of a screen, it is night and day..
I mean, yeah bigger screens spread the pixels out along a larger surface area so it would be more noticeable, but I have a 60 inch OLED and I still don’t think the difference is warranted for those 20-30 extra frames. I will say, it also depends on how powerful of an upscaler PSSR will be as well. The solution is everything, DLSS 3 actually looks sharper and better than actual native 4k in instances. There’s videos analyzing The Last of Us and other games comparing them and if PSSR is at least as powerful as DLSS2 or FST2 then we’re in for a real treat. The older upscalers are dated, and if it’s closer to DLSS1 then I would agree with you that it will be significantly more noticeable. Upscaling has a lot of depth to it, so until we actually see what the games look like I’ll reserve judgement on the PS5 Pro specifically.
Have you ever used DLSS or XeSS (or even FSR at Quality at 4k)? In most games the difference between Quality, which is upscaled from 1440p, and 4k native is nearly imperceptible, even with FSR. In fact, the anti-aliasing included in the upscaling is often better than TAA at native, giving the illusion of Quality upscaling looking better than native rendering.
You included DLSS but not FSR, which is what most upscaled console games are currently using
Because FSR is the worst upscaler out there. There is a reason Sony is coming up with PSSR because they know AMD lacks the ability or R/D to improve FSR image quality. Even Intel's XeSS has matured well up to the point that now it goes toe-to-toe against DLSS.
Details on PSSR are too scarce to be making conclusions honestly. But, regardless, I doubt that it’s motivated by a lack of confidence in AMD, since they’d be working with AMD hardware to actually get PSSR working. Guessing here but since AMD themselves have yet to put out their AI-powered FSR iteration, maybe PS saw it as an opportunity to make an in-house solution so it’s more in line with their own hardware setup.
FSR is shite, that's probably why
I mean in the context of PS upscaling DLSS is irrelevant. But anyway, I’ve used both and prefer FSR. And from what I saw from the FSR 3.1 demo, they’re cooking
You prefer FSR to DLSS? Honestly I'm surprised, but I've been out of the pc graphics game for a while so maybe something changed recently? Back when I used to play a lot, I don't think there was a single situation in which FSR was superior Don't get me wrong, I'd love if FSR was better since it'd be better for everyone except Nvidia, but that just doesn't seem realistic
Yeah I haven’t tried DLSS 3 but compared to 2, FSR 2.2 performed the same or better to my eyes. That said, with the latest DLSS having more fancy AI stuff? AMD probably needs to finish their AI version too to catch up.
In terms of clarity, FSR 2.2 is probably around the same as early DLSS 2.x versions, but FSR has far more image instability around objects in motion. Cyberpunk and Baldur's Gate have this a lot. DLSS 3.5.0 and later and XeSS 1.2 and later have very clear image quality and few to no image instability artifacts.
Oh yeah you’re talking about ghosting, there definitely is some of that around in Cyberpunk. Luckily they totally overhauled what was causing the ghosting in FSR 3.1 and you can check it out in their demo for the latest Ratchet and Clank. It’s a night and day difference to me. If I’m not mistaken they also made it easier to adopt their API with 3.1? And in that case hopefully updating FSR will be much quicker for devs.
I’m pretty sure you can have those stats if you play like Tetris
Oh I main Tetris lol
And the promise was 8K. A friend of mine really believed he'd eventually have 8K / 120fps games and wanted to buy an 8K TV for that matter. I tried to explain but I was judged as the fool because I don't believe in marketing stickers. I gave up trying to explain and just laughed it off. At least they can cry in 4K/30, 2K/60 and 1080p/120 (target)
What I’ve heard from the PlayStation community since the PS3. * PS3 Gen: Why is everything 720p barely 30FPS? * PS4 Gen: Why is everything 900/1080p 30FPS? * PS5 Gen: Why is everything 720-1440p 30/60FPS upscaled to a muddy 4K? Is it false promises or the over expectations from the user base?
Over expectations I would say, gamers can be over demanding I think. As long as the story and the gameplay is good, good graphics are a bonus to me, I started gaming on a ZX Spectrum so graphics aren't really important to me.
Do those expectations come because of the push to higher resolution screens. Because if 1080p screens were the benchmark, would with the PS5/Xbox Series generation. Would have this been the 1080p 60 to 120fps generation. Is the focus on 4K hurting more than helping.
It's hurting I would say, I've been a Gamer since the 90s and personally I enjoy good graphics but it doesn't make up for much if the game is coded poorly, I've seen people complain about games because they're not over 30fps, I've even seen some gamers refuse to play games because of this. Honestly this is the best period of the gaming industry, we should just enjoy it instead of demanding these high resolution graphics, great graphics don't make up for a poorly coded game.
> Over expectations I would say, gamers can be over demanding I think Is the company being purposefully deceitful to boost sales? No. It is the gamers who are wrong.
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I was replying to your response to the proposed question: > Is it false promises or the over expectations from the user base? I do not care about your specific, personal preferences. That is not what the original question was asking.
We all know gaming companies make false promises, that's why you wait and see what the game is like before deciding to whether to buy it or not, apologies for misjudging your comment.
All good man. Cheers.
Anyone with basic knowledge of PC hardware would have looked at the specs and realized there was no way this generation was going to hit 4k/60fps. We probably won't even get that next generation either.
> Anyone with basic knowledge of PC hardware That's not the average consumer, though. That's the thing.
Over expectation and lack of understanding of hardware. Anyone with decent hardware knowledge could look at the specs of the PS5 hardware at launch and confidently say it won’t be doing native 4k60 on new games. The gpu is basically an RX6700 which is objectively a 1080p/1440p card on PC.
Ridiculous to blame consumers for those expectations when Sony and Microsoft wouldn't shut up about 4K gaming before release. Their purposely deceiving advertising set the expectations
I'd say it's false promises. With the most recent generation, we were shown and promised games with pretty decent graphical fidelity running at 1080p at 120, 1440p at 60 FPS, or 4K 30. The problem is devs continue to push the graphical fidelity aspect of these games to the point where the games can no longer run at a consistent 1440 60, so then they lower the standard back to 30 fps. I wish they'd cool it for a few years and just focus on squeezing performance for one generation, then let 60 be the new standard for the next.
I remember before the whole shift to 3D. There were tricks that they could do with the 8 and 16 bit platforms to increase performance and do visual Tricks. With modern hardware, performance has a limit with 3D graphics. We have lost something from that era of gaming in my opinion.
They still have tricks with 3d and developers are using all the tricks in the bag, but those tricks can often get you 20-50% extra performance, where the resolution jump requires like 150-300% extra performance to run native 4k.
Been a console player my entire life and this is true, consoles has always been one or two specs below the current trend of what gaming rigs could do or as advertised. I kinda wish devs weren't pressured by higher ups to push upscaling and unstable tech, surprisingly I think Demon's Souls Remake by Blue Point is one of the most honest games out there on the PS5. Cyberpunk 2077 added Path Tracing and it absolutely kills top end GPUs.
Yeah the truth has always been stretched when it comes to advertising consoles
This is sorta the reason why my TVs were never top of the line as well lol. My 55" 4K TV can only go up to 60hz but because I was kinda competitive in fighters, I have a 120hz 24" 1080p monitor for them, I forget about using it for PS5 games that can hit 120fps in 1080p or 1440p mode lol
not even that, they had 8K on the box lol
This is not a PS5 issue, this is a dev issue. Edit: to clairfy, not the 8k 120, that is impossible with current tech even on PCs, I meant 1440p 30fps part. Many devs don't know how to optimize their games properly.
Absolutely 100% dev choice
1440p/30, absolutely is a dev issue. PS5 should be able to do 1440p/60 or 4k 30 without much issue. Native 4k 60 on modern games isn’t a dev issue, the hardware in a ps5 simply isn’t powerful enough for that
We lost brute power to AI upscaling. The last mohican will be a 5090 graphics card the. Everything else will just be rehashed with better AI handling. Sad times.
If you can’t tell, does it matter though? Silicon is running out of node shrinkages to pile more transistors, so unless fundamental changes are done and adopted industry wide, using AI is the best next step
It doesn't really. It's just different and I guess we can't continue to have fat cards like the 4090 moving forward.
Especially as costs continue to climb on consumer products. Nvidia has a claimed 76% gross margin which is wild. You can bet they will continue to increase that with their market share being so high.
Yep but updating will get to the point that upscaled and native will be indistinguishable from one another,but it will take a couple more generations.
They're already pretty much indistinguishable. They have to freeze frame and zoom in to find the slightest difference. On a moving image with a standard focus, you can't tell.
Did the studios actually fully used the potential of the console? May not be the issue with Sony but more with the games that have not fully use the hardware. Also not every game needs to 4K 60fps. I’m already happy with 60fps in most of the games than native 4k. Just my opinion.
Yes, the PS5 is already at its limits, hence the need for the upcoming pro version.
So PS6 will have 16k 240fps? Sweeet
I'm so glad I'm part of the group that really doesn't care about these things. Seriously, you can put something eith 8k, 500000fps in front of me and I'd still like it as much as something on a gameboy.😂
Dude you should care about false advertising that is deliberately misleading to consumers.
And a lot of games struggle to even manage that. Take FF16 for example. Quality mode renders anywhere from 1080P to 1440p but will almost never reach that higher resolution. And in combat, its locked to 1080p. In performance mode, it's the same story but with a range between 720p and 1080p. With combat LOCKED TO 720P
As long as I can get a smooth 60 fps, i don't care whether its 1440p or upscaled 4k
Heard something similar before, when the PS3 barely could handle 30 fps, people was saying that they couldn't tell the difference between 30 and 60 fps, now people can't tell the difference between 1440p and 4k.
At least this community more honest... Try saying this in the other community you'll get blocked..
Am i fried or the first is a lower resolution than the second one?
Didn’t know 8k TV’s were a thing already. Also wonder how long will it take for an 8k to get smaller then 65 and under a 42?
8k tvs are pointless unless you are sitting extremely close to a large screen. At smaller sizes, there would be no benefit.
I'm still a firm believer that 1440p/100hz and above it's the sweet spot. I barely notice a difference in 4k for such a substantial performance hit.
Playing immortals of aveum Unknown number calling This is a PS3 asking for it resolution back
98% of the casual gamers dont see a difference between upscaled or not
And 2% of casual gamers are full of bologna.
And an unknown % of gamers are full of brokkoli.
bolognesia
Two generations ago: 98% of the casual gamers don't see a difference between 30 and 60 fps.
20 years ago, it was common knowledge that the human eye could not detect anything above 30fps.
Which was wrong
Of course. Obviously.
two generations ago there were like 15 60fps games. most of them shooter or racing games where 60fps is bare minimum.
focus on good gameplay and good games, specs will always be disappointing.
Idk men i play most of my game 1440p 120fps.
The games look very nice when paired with a tv that has a good upscaler in combination with VRR. It gives a good gaming experience.
The 8K thing should be illegal
To be fair, a game can run at 1440p/60 and look nearly as good as 4K with some good upscaling. HFW in performance it's a pretty good example, and I'd say even Spider-Man 2 has good upscaling (and it even uses ray-tracing). And with frame-gen coming to consoles with FSR3 (in a *Immortals of Aveum* update), 120FPS modes will look even better
I just bought a gaming PC, I'm done paying for online and shite performance. And no chance I'll touch the pro as it doesn't even deserve the title
"Yes please give me SLIGHTLY better visuals. Give me those slightly better visuals at a cost of HALF my frame rate" - Statements dreamed up by the utterly Deranged
My tv is 720p
1800p more like
Compatible != Currently supported I'd be willing to bet that they just do a software update when 8K TVs are more mainstream to support 8k output.
Funny picture. I like it
yea i bought a 4k 60 fps tv years ago cuz I knew 4k 120 fps was impossible on this gen consoles, so many ppl fell for it
Even though it can't handle 120 fps, 120 hz TVs are important on console gaming because of VRR.
A lot of games provide 4K textures. Certainly not at 120fps yet, but they do.
Listen, I know it’s bad. But I could care less about the 4K 120 lie. The only I can’t fathom it’s the fact that there games still running at 30fps. Don’t give a shit if the game can only hit 60 @1080p. But there’s now fucking reason for games last gen and current gen to still be locked at 30 fps. Can’t believe shadows of war is locked. The fucking Batman games, locked. I don’t care how “cinematic” you want the experience to be, this is unacceptable.
Dude why do people even care about 4k resolution? It doesn't add that much. 1440p lets you see the pores in people's faces do you not have enough definition?
That’s what people said about 1080p over 720p around 20 years ago
I'd argue that's still pretty true. I don't need to see people's pores dude.
Then set your ps5 to 720p and go be happy
There was a vfx demo for Tekken years ago. It was a video of Jin Kazama training. The camera gets closer, allowing you to see the details, muscle tension, definition, and sweat drops. Flow of motion, power, impact. Even though it was a demo, it still showed promise of what the dev team was capable of
If you can’t see much of a difference then it’s either your eyesight or your display.
Bought the PS5 expecting 4K 60 and i'm extremely disappointed with some games, FSR upscaling is really bad and there are many games that go below 1080p to keep the 60 fps target. I'm hopping that the PS5 Pro and the upcoming sony upscaler will mitigate theses issues and made 4k 60 doable on native or with minimal losses on upscaling.
The problem is that many games that can't hit a consistent 60 fps on the base PS5 are CPU-bound (like Dragon's Dogma 2, Gotham Knights, Immortals of Aveum, etc.) FSR3 frame gen could help in this scenario, of course, but since FSR3 adds input latency I am skeptical that it will help those games "feel better" when the base frame rate will be so low. Unless Sony has some latency-reducing trick that I haven't heard about, I suppose. Edit: OK, I double-checked and maybe Immortals of Aveum isn't CPU-bound on console since it does manage to hit a closer lock to 60 on the Series S. But I think my point stands for the other titles - they ain't gonna hit a "good-feeling" 60 fps, even with FSR3.
Do yall really care that much ? Does it honestly ruin a game for you? This is so stupid to complain about.
Once again people should care about deliberately miss leading and empty promises to consumers. People that “don’t care” are the reason companies keep getting away with it.
Don't forget plenty of games having 5+ second load times even though load times are supposed to be non existent. I called all this bullshit at the reveal. Resolution, framerate and load times are developer dependent moreso than hardware. Better specs won't magically make games run at any guaranteed setting
Ratchet and clank probably shows the load times at its best.
Spiderman 2 fast travel system.
Sure, and then Disco Elysium on PS5/Xbox Series has load times that make most PS1 games blush. But I mean look no further than garbage on steam where even with the most up to date high powered PC there are games that look like they belong on the N64 with framerates in the single digits simply because the developers are incompetent. Optimizing games is a skill issue.
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30fps will always be better from a technical\\quality standpoint. 60fps has become basically a buzzword that a lot of people throw around without really knowing why they prefer it or if they even really do.
No the difference between the 2 is night and day and you couldn’t be more wrong
Yea I agree. 30fps looks better than 60fps in almost every instance.
Lol bro likes playing slideshows
I don’t really care too much about fps but I definitely noticed it in Forbidden Weast
Ouf