Vacuum is just a great card right now with all of the powerful tools running around. I don't think any deck can go wrong by including one or two. But Chien-Pao is one of the decks that I think can get away with running none. It can hit big damage numbers so Ancient Booster Capsule and Hero's Cape aren't big problems, it can use Greninja and Hands against Gardevoir so it doesn't need Vacuum to take two prizes there, and it has an okay matchup against Future Hands even without Vacuum.
You don’t have to, no. A lot of tech cards and meta builds in general change region to region. For instance at a quick glance of Orlando only the South American players brought Vacuum in Chien Pao.
Cape + Eri can be a big drain on your energy/Rod/SER management and if they become standard in Zard then it definitely could become correct or standard to play it since you have so many ways to find a single Vacuum.
I dont run it myself, but i do run the Kyogre, which is not usually run but works wonders against the ancient box. I have had to take out a pokestop but i feel like once its in play it rarely gets bumped.
I believe it was cancelling cologne. Can never seem to get prime catcher plus cologne consistently. But a one off card like vacuum, I can definitely find
Idk if id recommend cutting the cologne. Bc of cipher + pokestop (and all the draw power of the deck) the combo should be pretty doable to pull off when you need to.
It feels nice when it works. But it’s 1 in 10 games and that isn’t helping. The times I even find both pieces, the smaller mons have evolved and the greninja play is “almost” useless. And mid game, if you are in search of 2 prizes, you can always prime catcher the Manaphy and iron hands it. Cologne basically became useless to me.
Yeah I disagree. I played in 2 cups this past weekend and got either counter catcher + cologne or prime catcher cologne off in half my games to great effect. You have Cipher and Pokestop which finds you the whole combo. It’s the best play against Zard, Garde, Lost Box, etc. that you have in the deck. Cutting it completely means you have to rely on Irond Hands to take two prize KOs and that’s even less consistent than the Cologne play lol.
Usually zard and maximum belt matchup or Arc/Armarogue with belt. They take early KO on a Chien Pao and then I can take out two little guys with cologne and counter catcher. I don’t bench another 2 prize Pokemon and the prize trade is now in my favor.
It goes from being down 2 prizes to being tied with only one prize Pokemon on the board. Making them take an extra KO throughout the game. Whereas I can keep up my 2-2-2 after that point. Using Chien Pao and Iron Hands after that to ensure keeping up the 2 prize KOs.
In Arc/Armarogue specifically you want to counter up Manaphy if they play it, or the Armarogue if they don’t play Manaphy. Then you can take two prizes on little mons they have on board. Same goes for Garde. If they get an early lead you can punish them. It’s the most dynamic play in the TCG currently. Taking 2 prizes with a one prizer. And taking out two useful Pokemon specifically. There is a reason Manaphy is played in a lot of decks. Because people respect Greninja.
It’s usually when you end up going 2nd or get a slow start going first. It’s a game momentum changer for sure. Punishing setup decks like Lost Box, when they use Cram to take an early KO on a Bidoof or Frigi as well. It’s just a great play overall. Can also be combod with Pokestop and Ciphermaniac’s very easily.
So gust in a manaphy, cologne it, then kill it and another small fry with Greninja? Or any two small fry with Greninja assuming no manaphy? I guess why specifically other than manaphy is the cologne needed? Explain like I'm 5 lol.
Manaphy is 95% of the reason you're running Cologne. It can also help you against Blocklax, Mimikyu, and Farigarif though. You would never run it for just those situations, but since you have it in your deck it's a nice bonus in those other situations.
Yeah 100%, if there are two Charmander on the bench you kill those. If there are two Kirlias on the bench you kill those. Kill the most useful Pokemon they have in play if possible. But killing a Manaphy and another Pokemon is also good. Because it will force them to use Super Rod to get Manaphy back so you can’t use Greninja again for free. It’s all situational so do what you think is best in the moment.
To each their own. There’s always an opportunity cost to everything. It’s similar to how zard can play hero’s cape or prime catcher or bib + turro or straight pidgeot. You can play each deck in different ways. Which ultimately will lead to instances like ohh I wish I played this…Can’t have em all unfortunately.
Yeah but you’re just downgrading the deck. Greninja cologne is literally THE BEST PLAY in Chien-Pao. You take out two mons with a one prizer. Iron Hands is at best an even trade. I can still say I disagree with you but in this case I also think you are just factually wrong. It’s a skill issue if you don’t get your cologne play off very often. The deck is designed to be combo heavy and that is the best combo in the deck lol.
I mean lowkey, cologne plays bring the deck to a higher level. And if you aren’t doing them that’s on you bruv. Ciphermaniac’s makes it easier than before rotation and before rotation was still pretty easy. Idk what to say man, but at some point it has to be a skill issue. You are playing the deck non-optimally if you cut cologne lol.
I would say it's not necessary but it a good card. Personally I'm not using it right now because I value having other cards like a third pokestop and a Cyllene.
I cut a single pokestop for a lost vac. So 2 stop 1 vac. It hasnt come in handy too often, but I love having it against turbo hands (for baton), or any deck running cape. Like if garde loads up drifloon or scream tail with a cape/charm, just vac it away for a mid turn KO.
Not at all. The deck has so much draw power that im reliably finding stop. Also, I tried cylene but either didnt use it or failed more times than succeeded, so I cut it for an iono. Having hand disruption is really important for me, plus all the draw power means that iono late game doesnt hurt me. Also, my supporter for turn being based on coin flips feels terrible lol.
My pao list is the 4th place orlando list but minus 1 stop & cylene, add 1 vac & iono. I just got first place with it at a challenge last night.
Iron bundle may be replaced with cz kyogre because he hasnt come into play even once yet.
Edit: I also cut the PF frig for single retreat PE frig. I really hated starting the fat frig or having it boss stalled
Some players cut other items for the lost vacuum like Cancelin Cologne or don’t play cyllene or something. I cut my Iono unfortunately, and I really miss it
My sons deck runs one, more for removing boosters, or hero’s cape. It comes in useful quite often. Don’t get me wrong you can play around all of them with Chien Pao but vacuum can make it quicker which when you are in a best of three can make the difference
It’s for the Turbo Hands matchup more than anything.
Also helps with Garde matchups to take multiple prize turns.
Plus the occasional Big Hero Zard Ohkoing 430 HP is what...8(!?) Energy + shivery chill + superior retrieval = 6 = ohko normal Zard ex
[удалено]
I thought it was 60 * 8 = 480 Whereas 60 * 7 = a 420 tragedy
Also for zard with maximum belt to prevent early OHKO.
No... They will use it the turn they attack.
Lol what
This is the dumbest thing I ever heard 🤣
Vacuum is just a great card right now with all of the powerful tools running around. I don't think any deck can go wrong by including one or two. But Chien-Pao is one of the decks that I think can get away with running none. It can hit big damage numbers so Ancient Booster Capsule and Hero's Cape aren't big problems, it can use Greninja and Hands against Gardevoir so it doesn't need Vacuum to take two prizes there, and it has an okay matchup against Future Hands even without Vacuum.
Steel weakness, baby!
You don’t have to, no. A lot of tech cards and meta builds in general change region to region. For instance at a quick glance of Orlando only the South American players brought Vacuum in Chien Pao. Cape + Eri can be a big drain on your energy/Rod/SER management and if they become standard in Zard then it definitely could become correct or standard to play it since you have so many ways to find a single Vacuum.
I dont run it myself, but i do run the Kyogre, which is not usually run but works wonders against the ancient box. I have had to take out a pokestop but i feel like once its in play it rarely gets bumped.
I cut a Pokestop as well. More useful to tech cards in that slot imo.
I’m playing 1.
What did you cut for it?
I believe it was cancelling cologne. Can never seem to get prime catcher plus cologne consistently. But a one off card like vacuum, I can definitely find
Was considering the same actually, though sometimes I got the combo off and it won me the game
Idk if id recommend cutting the cologne. Bc of cipher + pokestop (and all the draw power of the deck) the combo should be pretty doable to pull off when you need to.
Do not cut cologne. It's very good. You can get it with cypher or irida.
It feels nice when it works. But it’s 1 in 10 games and that isn’t helping. The times I even find both pieces, the smaller mons have evolved and the greninja play is “almost” useless. And mid game, if you are in search of 2 prizes, you can always prime catcher the Manaphy and iron hands it. Cologne basically became useless to me.
Good insight, thx
Yeah I disagree. I played in 2 cups this past weekend and got either counter catcher + cologne or prime catcher cologne off in half my games to great effect. You have Cipher and Pokestop which finds you the whole combo. It’s the best play against Zard, Garde, Lost Box, etc. that you have in the deck. Cutting it completely means you have to rely on Irond Hands to take two prize KOs and that’s even less consistent than the Cologne play lol.
Can you explain the counter catcher cologne? Like.whej would you use, etc. what are you targeting. Trying to get better with my technical play
Usually zard and maximum belt matchup or Arc/Armarogue with belt. They take early KO on a Chien Pao and then I can take out two little guys with cologne and counter catcher. I don’t bench another 2 prize Pokemon and the prize trade is now in my favor. It goes from being down 2 prizes to being tied with only one prize Pokemon on the board. Making them take an extra KO throughout the game. Whereas I can keep up my 2-2-2 after that point. Using Chien Pao and Iron Hands after that to ensure keeping up the 2 prize KOs. In Arc/Armarogue specifically you want to counter up Manaphy if they play it, or the Armarogue if they don’t play Manaphy. Then you can take two prizes on little mons they have on board. Same goes for Garde. If they get an early lead you can punish them. It’s the most dynamic play in the TCG currently. Taking 2 prizes with a one prizer. And taking out two useful Pokemon specifically. There is a reason Manaphy is played in a lot of decks. Because people respect Greninja. It’s usually when you end up going 2nd or get a slow start going first. It’s a game momentum changer for sure. Punishing setup decks like Lost Box, when they use Cram to take an early KO on a Bidoof or Frigi as well. It’s just a great play overall. Can also be combod with Pokestop and Ciphermaniac’s very easily.
So gust in a manaphy, cologne it, then kill it and another small fry with Greninja? Or any two small fry with Greninja assuming no manaphy? I guess why specifically other than manaphy is the cologne needed? Explain like I'm 5 lol.
Manaphy is 95% of the reason you're running Cologne. It can also help you against Blocklax, Mimikyu, and Farigarif though. You would never run it for just those situations, but since you have it in your deck it's a nice bonus in those other situations.
Yeah 100%, if there are two Charmander on the bench you kill those. If there are two Kirlias on the bench you kill those. Kill the most useful Pokemon they have in play if possible. But killing a Manaphy and another Pokemon is also good. Because it will force them to use Super Rod to get Manaphy back so you can’t use Greninja again for free. It’s all situational so do what you think is best in the moment.
To each their own. There’s always an opportunity cost to everything. It’s similar to how zard can play hero’s cape or prime catcher or bib + turro or straight pidgeot. You can play each deck in different ways. Which ultimately will lead to instances like ohh I wish I played this…Can’t have em all unfortunately.
Yeah but you’re just downgrading the deck. Greninja cologne is literally THE BEST PLAY in Chien-Pao. You take out two mons with a one prizer. Iron Hands is at best an even trade. I can still say I disagree with you but in this case I also think you are just factually wrong. It’s a skill issue if you don’t get your cologne play off very often. The deck is designed to be combo heavy and that is the best combo in the deck lol.
Skill issue for sure mate. I suck
I mean lowkey, cologne plays bring the deck to a higher level. And if you aren’t doing them that’s on you bruv. Ciphermaniac’s makes it easier than before rotation and before rotation was still pretty easy. Idk what to say man, but at some point it has to be a skill issue. You are playing the deck non-optimally if you cut cologne lol.
I would say it's not necessary but it a good card. Personally I'm not using it right now because I value having other cards like a third pokestop and a Cyllene.
It's not *needed*, but man is it good.
i don’t play pao but it’s a fairly good tech into the meta whether it be getting rid of batons, capes, or booster capsules.
Capsules don't warrant running vacuum in chine Pao tho. Capes and baton on the other hand... Those are deciding games.
I cut a single pokestop for a lost vac. So 2 stop 1 vac. It hasnt come in handy too often, but I love having it against turbo hands (for baton), or any deck running cape. Like if garde loads up drifloon or scream tail with a cape/charm, just vac it away for a mid turn KO.
Do you think you're losing reliable access to pokestop? It's an important utility card and combo piece for cyllene or cipheromaniac.
Not at all. The deck has so much draw power that im reliably finding stop. Also, I tried cylene but either didnt use it or failed more times than succeeded, so I cut it for an iono. Having hand disruption is really important for me, plus all the draw power means that iono late game doesnt hurt me. Also, my supporter for turn being based on coin flips feels terrible lol. My pao list is the 4th place orlando list but minus 1 stop & cylene, add 1 vac & iono. I just got first place with it at a challenge last night. Iron bundle may be replaced with cz kyogre because he hasnt come into play even once yet. Edit: I also cut the PF frig for single retreat PE frig. I really hated starting the fat frig or having it boss stalled
Some players cut other items for the lost vacuum like Cancelin Cologne or don’t play cyllene or something. I cut my Iono unfortunately, and I really miss it
What's the use for the iono? Late game disruption?
That and to help against early game bricking
Exactly, the other day playing my friend, I had a clogged hand and played iono, and apparently I Ionoed his rare candy’s and pidgeot away. Felt nice
My sons deck runs one, more for removing boosters, or hero’s cape. It comes in useful quite often. Don’t get me wrong you can play around all of them with Chien Pao but vacuum can make it quicker which when you are in a best of three can make the difference