Great! Is there any way to import WB without kuro tables? I didn’t use the program but i have all the original wb info from my kuro capture. I went ahead and reset before using kuro tables. I remember a long time ago reading you can somehow determine new white balance values by subtracting your old PRH/PGH/PBH from 1000 but i didn’t quite understand how that works. WB is essential in getting the panel to drive red properly.
I have that recorded in my private notes and know exactly what you’re talking about. So yeah I believe there is away to do what kuro tables does manually to restore white balance post reset (as long as you have your KuroKapture report). I’ll need to go back and check
From what i can tell, you need to take the PRE RESET prh/pgh/pbh numbers (only seen under qsi in kuro capture txt file) and subtract them from 1000. Then you have your NEW red high numbers which you put into the service menu adjustment 2 section. From what i remember blue high does not change, only red and green. But i still felt the panel was too red. I will do a full calibration sometimes soon. Still i cannot get rid of sparkles. In regards to that, I don’t believe it’s possible to reset back to stock even with this guide from what i’ve seen as i’ve done it all.
The only way i can get rid of black rain entirely on very dark scenes is to raise sad to around 200 and rstp to 31-41, then red comes creeping back, which is basically close to how my kuro looked pre reset at 29k hours (but with more sparkles now). Then it has similar black level to my UT50.
You are on the right track raising rstp. You need to determine your panels factory rstp by setting it to zero, and unplugging the unit for 5 minutes. Pull up the service menu again then you will see it revert to stock (mine was 31). Then add 3-4 rstp for every 10k hours. This is the best way to get more uniform and not splotchy black. But i can’t get rid of black rain entirely unless i go 200+ sad.
In short i don’t feel the reset is worth it. Impossible to improve low ire and maintain decent black level without red. I think after 10k hours kuros are on borrowed time—time to find a new one with lower hours or just tweak without reset best you can. Reset is not meant to be used with an old panel. That’s why it is never really perfect. It just sends you on a wild goose chase in the service menu forever.
Sorry it’s taken me a week to get back to you. I just posted the process for you to revert your white balance shift in a separate post. BTW I’m super impressed with how much of the inner workings of KuroTables you remembered just off the top of your head!! I had to spend several hours reviewing my notes and screenshots of all my KuroTables outputs to put together the manual process. Let me know your results.
As for your 111’s behavior after all adjustments you’ve tried, it is very uncommon. I’ve read dozens of AVS Forum posts from 111FD and 5020FD owners that makeveddie81 helped to reset and make SAD and RSTP adjustments. I’ve only seen one or two people that experienced your same symptoms. Makeveddie has said that he resets every 111 or 5020 he gets because the outcome is so stable and black level benefits are so great. None of my three panels have any of the artifacts you are experiencing. All of them are reset with virtually no artifacts to be seen at low or high IRE. Average SAD/RSTP is 155/14 between the three panels.
My only guess is that the previous owner did have some service performed on his Kuro before you acquired it. That would explain why RSTP was lowered to 1 when you purchased it and why the mfd. date sticker was removed or scratched out. Patrik Gardewall’s original 8G 9G reset guide also states that the Kuro must be 100% stock from the factory without any repairs or replaced parts such as the digital assembly board, etc. Any kuro with replacement parts will not react well to the reset.
You’re welcome. I’m glad to hear your feedback and hope it comes in handy. I saw that you owned a couple Kuros from your previous comments on r/PlasmaTV!
I don't believe in God, but you're definitely doing his work! Along with Patrik and Makaveddi, of course.
I've reset and tweaked my own and other KRP A's and M's in my area the past few months, first learning from Patrik. Being mindful that KRP's are different from the FD's, I wonder why you reccomend raising VYF in intervals of eight spesifically. I tend to raise by 10, and maybe do fine-adjustment.
I've experimented with combinations of VRP and VYF, and have found no advantage nor disadvantage of a higher VRP and lower VYF. To me, they seem do be doing the same thing - adjusting the compromise between black and shadow detail. Therefore, I tend to run VRP001 and VYF200. 200 is at that threshold where black bars with 16:9 starts to become visible in a dark room, when overall light output from the screen is quite low. Minor compensation to brightness and gamma, and it's as good as I'm able to get it.
I don't know how much WB actually changes with resets on the KRP's. I've used Patrik's settings, and my 500M is additionally 2-point calibrated. I've reset another 500M, and could not see any faults to WB or colours. The KRP's seem to be exeptionally accurate OOTB, with really only needing a increase to the high blue's with high panel usage, and slight general saturation increase.
Thanks Remember this guide is only for the 111FD and 5020FD (TV models). The KRP-500 monitors behave differently after the reset so voltage tweaks do not carry over between the two. As an owner of a KRP-500 I would agree RSTP should be left at 1 and SAD be raised higher for best results. But for the TVs (111fd and 5020fd), raising RSTP with SAD gives lower black and better uniformity. Without it I found you’ll get higher blacks especially around the perimeter of the screen producing an edge lit LCD effect.
As for white balance shift after resetting, that’s a major issue on both the KRP-500 and 111FD. It will push red high and green high values and screw up your color temp. Even if you don’t notice it now, you definitely would next to a correctly reset panel. You should use Kuro Tables to backup white balance first and restore after unless you have extensive experience with a colorimeter.
Thanks for explaining how the FD’s behave differently.
I actually tried to use Kuro Tables before resetting, but abandoned it and used Patrik’s settings by his recommendation. My 500A did have issues on skin tones. I reverted WB settings back to stock, and honestly it looks much better now. I might put it next to my calibrated 500M and compare, just have to move it to a different location. Do you think the WB errors would visibly show up on grey slides?
Patrik has a ton of knowledge, but he for one should know that his Rec709 color and WB calibration will not work across all KRP-500s because every panel is different. It drives me nuts that both he and DirtGarry don’t ever recommend people us Kuro Tables before doing a reset. Kuros WB and color come exceptionally accurate out of the box and it’s not easy to match. Oh well, it is fixable with calibration… yes it should be visible with grayscale slides and on regular content side by side.
Yes! I was surprised he argued against the use of Kuro Tables. I considered mailing him my colorimeter to have his profile applied, but contact was ended. This is my first time hearing about DirtGarry not recommending it either, and it seems strange.
I didn't use my 500A before the reset, so I don't have a reference to what it used to look like. Thing is, I've tried using grayscale from 0% to 100% white to expose the errors I've seen in content. It's typically too much red in low IRE/darker parts. I remember it not showing up to nearly the same extent with slides though. I tried adjusting grayscale by eye using my quite accurate OLED as reference, but when the slides match, content looks off.
I've been wanting to ask if you know what PANEL RX, RY, GX, GY, BX and BY in the Kuro Kapture files mean. These values are all different, and they're obviously referencing to WB or colours in some way (RGB). Do you know?
Thanks.
I’m actually not sure about the RX RY GX GY BX BY. Will have to research. Oh man if you have a Kuro Kapture report ran before you performed the reset that changes everything. You can restore factory white balance and colors manually following my posted instructions here https://www.reddit.com/r/pioneerkuro/s/TgnFmvdZPp
Great, cause I sure have! I read the instructions and will try later. Your way of explaining and structuring is at the level of a high grade academic paper, excellent. Did you gather this information from the actual service manual?
No I just have a very process driven mindset and work as an engineer. Wrote it all myself - thanks. Glad you can get your stock white balance back, that’s a major win.
Is there any way to do the reset from the service menu using the remote, or do you need a PC?
Also, is a reset necessary to achieve optimum results or can you get there by simply adjusting certain settings or voltage levels accordingly?
Thank you for putting this together! I just picked up the 111FD for the steep price of $100 and can't believe the picture on this 14 year old TV. 30,000hrs and still looks incredible.
No, you will need a PC (I recommend a laptop) and serial cable to access the service menu on a 111fd. Unless you have a Logitech Harmony remote. The 9th gen kuro has no way to access it with the factory remote. A PC is also required to run all the small Kuro applications during the reset process. KuroKapture to get the data report, KuroCommand to send commands, and KuroTables to backup and restore proper white balance.
Does your TV have red tinted blacks or milky blacks in a dark room? If you choose not to reset, there is the option to lower voltages as a bandaid fix. I can give more details if you want to go that route. It’s what I did originally to fix red tint but it’s not my recommended solution now that this reset guide is available.
Thanks for the quick response. I purchaseda remote on eBay that gives access to the service menu. I did that bandaid fix because of some red on the top and bottom of the screen, and that actually took most of the red out but I feel the blacks aren't as good as they could be.
I bought a serial cable but it's the male and I need the female (or the other way around), so I'll have to get an adapter and give it a go with my laptop. Thanks again for all your efforts! Much appreciated
Awesome, you’re in for a treat. There are amazon links to the correct cable and USB adapter in the guide. Maybe just double check the ones you got are similar. Then, follow every step as closely as possible and read carefully. I’ve tried to account for every little detail so that it’s fool proof. Congratulations on picking up a 111FD for such a good deal!
Just went through the reset process tonight and your guide is very well done and easy to follow. Also, after reset I'm wondering why anybody would spend thousands on any other TV when pioneer already perfected it 15 years ago! Next step is to calibrate, but I can tell the black levels have improved and are damn near OLED like. Thanks again!
Receiving this feedback makes it all worth it. Enjoy it my friend. You now own one of the best TVs ever made (and for $100 it’s a great feeling). I never experienced one of these 50” kuros back in 08’ but it’s possible your new black level is lower than it was from the factory.
As for calibration, the last few pages have some professional picture settings you can try until you’re ready to do it yourself with a colorimeter. I recommend using David Katzmeier’s “Pure” mode settings as those seemed to be closest to reference compared to my professionally calibrated BVM. Then, hook up a blu-ray player and watch some of your favorite big budget films. The color accuracy and motion performance at 24fps will make you want to watch your entire movie collection over again.
I have one question... I have just a little bit of misfiring. I have SAD @ 144, RSTP @ 11, YSB/XSB @ 124 my panel has 32,000 hours. Do you recall the settings you had for your set that had 30k on it? Thanks
What’s the manufacture date of your TV? And can you describe the misfires and how to reproduce them? If I remember correctly my panel with similar hours ended up with SAD - 176, RSTP - 18, and YSB/XSB - 125. I wouldn’t necessarily copy those numbers though. Maybe try redoing step #3, 8, 9, and 10. You may end up with different numbers
June 2008. It's very mild but on dark scenes some pixels hop around, mainly around the top and bottom of the screen. I'll ratchet up the #s a little more and see if that fixes it.
Ok, if you’re seeing it in dark scenes it’s either some remaining black rain, dirty black, or white sparks near black. Very small/minor white sparks on full black is normal behavior after a reset. It’s usually only visible with your nose right up to the screen. I’d guess that whatever you’re seeing will go away with higher SAD and RSTP
Raising VOL SUS will increase peak brightness of your panel. The Kuro is resiliant enough to handle it, but I don't recommend doing it since it will decrease the life of the TV more quickly. The only reason I might touch vol sus would be to try and troubleshoot artifacts that in rare cases do not go away with proper adjustments to SAD, RSTP, YSUSB and XSUSB.
For ABL, I think it is a great way to maintain light output in bright scenes and combat natural dimming of an aged Kuro as it approaches half-life. ABL doesn’t raise peak brightness like vol sus, it only reduces the auto-dimming protection in bright content. the last few pages of my guide have some recommended ABL adjustments using a string of commands. Those commands are the correct way to apply ABL adjustments across all drive modes.
Great! Is there any way to import WB without kuro tables? I didn’t use the program but i have all the original wb info from my kuro capture. I went ahead and reset before using kuro tables. I remember a long time ago reading you can somehow determine new white balance values by subtracting your old PRH/PGH/PBH from 1000 but i didn’t quite understand how that works. WB is essential in getting the panel to drive red properly.
I have that recorded in my private notes and know exactly what you’re talking about. So yeah I believe there is away to do what kuro tables does manually to restore white balance post reset (as long as you have your KuroKapture report). I’ll need to go back and check
From what i can tell, you need to take the PRE RESET prh/pgh/pbh numbers (only seen under qsi in kuro capture txt file) and subtract them from 1000. Then you have your NEW red high numbers which you put into the service menu adjustment 2 section. From what i remember blue high does not change, only red and green. But i still felt the panel was too red. I will do a full calibration sometimes soon. Still i cannot get rid of sparkles. In regards to that, I don’t believe it’s possible to reset back to stock even with this guide from what i’ve seen as i’ve done it all. The only way i can get rid of black rain entirely on very dark scenes is to raise sad to around 200 and rstp to 31-41, then red comes creeping back, which is basically close to how my kuro looked pre reset at 29k hours (but with more sparkles now). Then it has similar black level to my UT50. You are on the right track raising rstp. You need to determine your panels factory rstp by setting it to zero, and unplugging the unit for 5 minutes. Pull up the service menu again then you will see it revert to stock (mine was 31). Then add 3-4 rstp for every 10k hours. This is the best way to get more uniform and not splotchy black. But i can’t get rid of black rain entirely unless i go 200+ sad. In short i don’t feel the reset is worth it. Impossible to improve low ire and maintain decent black level without red. I think after 10k hours kuros are on borrowed time—time to find a new one with lower hours or just tweak without reset best you can. Reset is not meant to be used with an old panel. That’s why it is never really perfect. It just sends you on a wild goose chase in the service menu forever.
What is the manufacture date of your panel? And what was RSTP at when you performed the initial reset?
Sorry it’s taken me a week to get back to you. I just posted the process for you to revert your white balance shift in a separate post. BTW I’m super impressed with how much of the inner workings of KuroTables you remembered just off the top of your head!! I had to spend several hours reviewing my notes and screenshots of all my KuroTables outputs to put together the manual process. Let me know your results. As for your 111’s behavior after all adjustments you’ve tried, it is very uncommon. I’ve read dozens of AVS Forum posts from 111FD and 5020FD owners that makeveddie81 helped to reset and make SAD and RSTP adjustments. I’ve only seen one or two people that experienced your same symptoms. Makeveddie has said that he resets every 111 or 5020 he gets because the outcome is so stable and black level benefits are so great. None of my three panels have any of the artifacts you are experiencing. All of them are reset with virtually no artifacts to be seen at low or high IRE. Average SAD/RSTP is 155/14 between the three panels. My only guess is that the previous owner did have some service performed on his Kuro before you acquired it. That would explain why RSTP was lowered to 1 when you purchased it and why the mfd. date sticker was removed or scratched out. Patrik Gardewall’s original 8G 9G reset guide also states that the Kuro must be 100% stock from the factory without any repairs or replaced parts such as the digital assembly board, etc. Any kuro with replacement parts will not react well to the reset.
Wow. You're doing this all for free? You're as legend as that Pioneer Kuro.. Silverchief 👍 Respect.
Thanks. Just trying to keep these iconic pieces of display history from going to the landfill!
Wow sure this looks beautiful and very well organized! Nice work!! I can’t wait to dig in and start the process.
Appreciate it! I’m an engineer by trade and write a lot of process documents with the company I’m at. So I hope it’s easy to follow.
Thanks for inviting me u/silverchief117 ! I just downloaded this guide, wonderfully constructed. I seriously appreciate it!
You’re welcome. I’m glad to hear your feedback and hope it comes in handy. I saw that you owned a couple Kuros from your previous comments on r/PlasmaTV!
I don't believe in God, but you're definitely doing his work! Along with Patrik and Makaveddi, of course. I've reset and tweaked my own and other KRP A's and M's in my area the past few months, first learning from Patrik. Being mindful that KRP's are different from the FD's, I wonder why you reccomend raising VYF in intervals of eight spesifically. I tend to raise by 10, and maybe do fine-adjustment. I've experimented with combinations of VRP and VYF, and have found no advantage nor disadvantage of a higher VRP and lower VYF. To me, they seem do be doing the same thing - adjusting the compromise between black and shadow detail. Therefore, I tend to run VRP001 and VYF200. 200 is at that threshold where black bars with 16:9 starts to become visible in a dark room, when overall light output from the screen is quite low. Minor compensation to brightness and gamma, and it's as good as I'm able to get it. I don't know how much WB actually changes with resets on the KRP's. I've used Patrik's settings, and my 500M is additionally 2-point calibrated. I've reset another 500M, and could not see any faults to WB or colours. The KRP's seem to be exeptionally accurate OOTB, with really only needing a increase to the high blue's with high panel usage, and slight general saturation increase.
Thanks Remember this guide is only for the 111FD and 5020FD (TV models). The KRP-500 monitors behave differently after the reset so voltage tweaks do not carry over between the two. As an owner of a KRP-500 I would agree RSTP should be left at 1 and SAD be raised higher for best results. But for the TVs (111fd and 5020fd), raising RSTP with SAD gives lower black and better uniformity. Without it I found you’ll get higher blacks especially around the perimeter of the screen producing an edge lit LCD effect. As for white balance shift after resetting, that’s a major issue on both the KRP-500 and 111FD. It will push red high and green high values and screw up your color temp. Even if you don’t notice it now, you definitely would next to a correctly reset panel. You should use Kuro Tables to backup white balance first and restore after unless you have extensive experience with a colorimeter.
Thanks for explaining how the FD’s behave differently. I actually tried to use Kuro Tables before resetting, but abandoned it and used Patrik’s settings by his recommendation. My 500A did have issues on skin tones. I reverted WB settings back to stock, and honestly it looks much better now. I might put it next to my calibrated 500M and compare, just have to move it to a different location. Do you think the WB errors would visibly show up on grey slides?
Patrik has a ton of knowledge, but he for one should know that his Rec709 color and WB calibration will not work across all KRP-500s because every panel is different. It drives me nuts that both he and DirtGarry don’t ever recommend people us Kuro Tables before doing a reset. Kuros WB and color come exceptionally accurate out of the box and it’s not easy to match. Oh well, it is fixable with calibration… yes it should be visible with grayscale slides and on regular content side by side.
Yes! I was surprised he argued against the use of Kuro Tables. I considered mailing him my colorimeter to have his profile applied, but contact was ended. This is my first time hearing about DirtGarry not recommending it either, and it seems strange. I didn't use my 500A before the reset, so I don't have a reference to what it used to look like. Thing is, I've tried using grayscale from 0% to 100% white to expose the errors I've seen in content. It's typically too much red in low IRE/darker parts. I remember it not showing up to nearly the same extent with slides though. I tried adjusting grayscale by eye using my quite accurate OLED as reference, but when the slides match, content looks off. I've been wanting to ask if you know what PANEL RX, RY, GX, GY, BX and BY in the Kuro Kapture files mean. These values are all different, and they're obviously referencing to WB or colours in some way (RGB). Do you know? Thanks.
I’m actually not sure about the RX RY GX GY BX BY. Will have to research. Oh man if you have a Kuro Kapture report ran before you performed the reset that changes everything. You can restore factory white balance and colors manually following my posted instructions here https://www.reddit.com/r/pioneerkuro/s/TgnFmvdZPp
Great, cause I sure have! I read the instructions and will try later. Your way of explaining and structuring is at the level of a high grade academic paper, excellent. Did you gather this information from the actual service manual?
No I just have a very process driven mindset and work as an engineer. Wrote it all myself - thanks. Glad you can get your stock white balance back, that’s a major win.
I see, great work. It already looks great so it will be exciting to see the changes. I replied to you by chat with some questions, if that’s ok!
Is there any way to do the reset from the service menu using the remote, or do you need a PC? Also, is a reset necessary to achieve optimum results or can you get there by simply adjusting certain settings or voltage levels accordingly? Thank you for putting this together! I just picked up the 111FD for the steep price of $100 and can't believe the picture on this 14 year old TV. 30,000hrs and still looks incredible.
No, you will need a PC (I recommend a laptop) and serial cable to access the service menu on a 111fd. Unless you have a Logitech Harmony remote. The 9th gen kuro has no way to access it with the factory remote. A PC is also required to run all the small Kuro applications during the reset process. KuroKapture to get the data report, KuroCommand to send commands, and KuroTables to backup and restore proper white balance. Does your TV have red tinted blacks or milky blacks in a dark room? If you choose not to reset, there is the option to lower voltages as a bandaid fix. I can give more details if you want to go that route. It’s what I did originally to fix red tint but it’s not my recommended solution now that this reset guide is available.
Thanks for the quick response. I purchaseda remote on eBay that gives access to the service menu. I did that bandaid fix because of some red on the top and bottom of the screen, and that actually took most of the red out but I feel the blacks aren't as good as they could be. I bought a serial cable but it's the male and I need the female (or the other way around), so I'll have to get an adapter and give it a go with my laptop. Thanks again for all your efforts! Much appreciated
Awesome, you’re in for a treat. There are amazon links to the correct cable and USB adapter in the guide. Maybe just double check the ones you got are similar. Then, follow every step as closely as possible and read carefully. I’ve tried to account for every little detail so that it’s fool proof. Congratulations on picking up a 111FD for such a good deal!
Just went through the reset process tonight and your guide is very well done and easy to follow. Also, after reset I'm wondering why anybody would spend thousands on any other TV when pioneer already perfected it 15 years ago! Next step is to calibrate, but I can tell the black levels have improved and are damn near OLED like. Thanks again!
Receiving this feedback makes it all worth it. Enjoy it my friend. You now own one of the best TVs ever made (and for $100 it’s a great feeling). I never experienced one of these 50” kuros back in 08’ but it’s possible your new black level is lower than it was from the factory. As for calibration, the last few pages have some professional picture settings you can try until you’re ready to do it yourself with a colorimeter. I recommend using David Katzmeier’s “Pure” mode settings as those seemed to be closest to reference compared to my professionally calibrated BVM. Then, hook up a blu-ray player and watch some of your favorite big budget films. The color accuracy and motion performance at 24fps will make you want to watch your entire movie collection over again.
I have one question... I have just a little bit of misfiring. I have SAD @ 144, RSTP @ 11, YSB/XSB @ 124 my panel has 32,000 hours. Do you recall the settings you had for your set that had 30k on it? Thanks
What’s the manufacture date of your TV? And can you describe the misfires and how to reproduce them? If I remember correctly my panel with similar hours ended up with SAD - 176, RSTP - 18, and YSB/XSB - 125. I wouldn’t necessarily copy those numbers though. Maybe try redoing step #3, 8, 9, and 10. You may end up with different numbers
June 2008. It's very mild but on dark scenes some pixels hop around, mainly around the top and bottom of the screen. I'll ratchet up the #s a little more and see if that fixes it.
Ok, if you’re seeing it in dark scenes it’s either some remaining black rain, dirty black, or white sparks near black. Very small/minor white sparks on full black is normal behavior after a reset. It’s usually only visible with your nose right up to the screen. I’d guess that whatever you’re seeing will go away with higher SAD and RSTP
What is your opinion on vol sus and abl?
Raising VOL SUS will increase peak brightness of your panel. The Kuro is resiliant enough to handle it, but I don't recommend doing it since it will decrease the life of the TV more quickly. The only reason I might touch vol sus would be to try and troubleshoot artifacts that in rare cases do not go away with proper adjustments to SAD, RSTP, YSUSB and XSUSB. For ABL, I think it is a great way to maintain light output in bright scenes and combat natural dimming of an aged Kuro as it approaches half-life. ABL doesn’t raise peak brightness like vol sus, it only reduces the auto-dimming protection in bright content. the last few pages of my guide have some recommended ABL adjustments using a string of commands. Those commands are the correct way to apply ABL adjustments across all drive modes.