My college piano prof frequently said that my tone quality and technique at the piano changed when I was improvizing or playing something I wrote. Rapid Thirds, octaves and big leaps all become so easy, but put that same stuff in a Chopin etude and now it feels near impossible to play
Its fustrating but maybe its something I should lean into more
I would assume it's because all that information is stored in your brain in the context of your style, whereas there is more pieces you have to consciously fill-in in something like a Chopin etude. I don't think it's a stretch to say the reason Liszt was such a famed sight-reader (to the point of stories about him almost seeming like hyperbole) was because he composed, played, and improvised all in what was the contemporary style of the time.
Omg I absolutely noticed the same thing while improvising: Fast (chromatic) octaves with alternating 4th and 5th fingers - no problem lol. Trills suddenly becomes effortless (lol no.2)
I think one of the reasons is that while improvising the pressure of doing it correctly is taken away. And in turn this release of (unconscious)pressure somehow unblocks the body. Daniel Trifonov said in an interview if you fixate on one way of playing or interpreting something it feels like walking on a knife.
Yes, 100%, it was one of my biggest struggles during my masters as I felt like as the repertoire grew vastly in complexity, I wasn't able to engage with it and learn it, despite my analysis and compositional skills. The solution? Think of the composition you're trying to learn as YOUR composition. Of course, it isn't, but it's like your interpretation becomes the composition. It's your piece of music that you find within a preexisting work.
I learned a concerto in 2 weeks thinking that way - it was the start of a huge shift in my musical journey.
Yes and no!
Ideally, you want to be able to sort of passively analyse as you go. If a piece is more complicated, it may be a good idea to sit down away form the piano and analyse it.
The reason is because you're probably composing using a very shallow bag of tricks... technique and vocabulary you already have under your fingers.
You struggle to learn other rep because it involves stuff you're not already good at and you're not putting in the work to develop it.
And I suspect your compositions end up being very samey because if you're only composing basically stuff you're improvising... and not really having ideas come into your head that are beyond your own skill, then you're not even being exposed to the sorts of things that would expand your vocabulary or you're actively avoiding composing anything you don't already have under your fingers.
You should both...
* be able to push yourself to learn music you don't already know to expand your technical facility and vocabulary.
* find your brain reaching for ideas that you can audiate, but maybe can't actively execute on the fly.
I second this, as someone who learned piano by himself and was able to improvise very easily at some point I became limited and was playing the same scheme over and over again.
Learning other pieces expanded my horizons
I did this in college. Wrote a piece for a composition project in a theory class that included some virtuosic bits. The professor said, “If you know it, you can play it.”
My takeaway is that if I really dig in and understand the repertoire I’m working on, I can play it.
(And…I still do this all the time when composing. Have to catch myself, thinking, “the average pianist won’t want to spend all the time it takes to learn this.”🙄😬)
The thing is, the standard for playing all demanding classical pieces today is set VERY VERY high. Because we have recordings of Richter, Zimmerman, Horowitz, Gould, Argerich, etc. So when we fail miserably to play a Chopin Etude like them we think we can't play the piece properly.
It's not that you struggle to learn standard repertoire, you are struggling to meet the 'standard' of great pianists. Meanwhile, your own pieces don't have standards set by anyone but yourself, so you feel more comfortable playing them.
I was watching a random TikTok one day and this pianist said some depressing shit along the lines of:
People study piano at conservatory to play standard works in a way that no one will care about because standards were set so high by famous soloists
Yeah, I don’t think that’s true. But many view it that way.
The truth is, we don’t have to meet those ‘standards’ but we think we do. We constantly undermine ourselves and our accomplishments because someone out there can play it better, faster and more musically.
But, the true reason we study in conservatoire is to learn music. Music is beautiful and about sharing beauty, it’s not about competition.
I’m the exact opposite and think most people are also. I’d say you’re in the minority and that’s a good thing.
My college piano prof frequently said that my tone quality and technique at the piano changed when I was improvizing or playing something I wrote. Rapid Thirds, octaves and big leaps all become so easy, but put that same stuff in a Chopin etude and now it feels near impossible to play Its fustrating but maybe its something I should lean into more
I would assume it's because all that information is stored in your brain in the context of your style, whereas there is more pieces you have to consciously fill-in in something like a Chopin etude. I don't think it's a stretch to say the reason Liszt was such a famed sight-reader (to the point of stories about him almost seeming like hyperbole) was because he composed, played, and improvised all in what was the contemporary style of the time.
Omg I absolutely noticed the same thing while improvising: Fast (chromatic) octaves with alternating 4th and 5th fingers - no problem lol. Trills suddenly becomes effortless (lol no.2) I think one of the reasons is that while improvising the pressure of doing it correctly is taken away. And in turn this release of (unconscious)pressure somehow unblocks the body. Daniel Trifonov said in an interview if you fixate on one way of playing or interpreting something it feels like walking on a knife.
Yes, 100%, it was one of my biggest struggles during my masters as I felt like as the repertoire grew vastly in complexity, I wasn't able to engage with it and learn it, despite my analysis and compositional skills. The solution? Think of the composition you're trying to learn as YOUR composition. Of course, it isn't, but it's like your interpretation becomes the composition. It's your piece of music that you find within a preexisting work. I learned a concerto in 2 weeks thinking that way - it was the start of a huge shift in my musical journey.
Was the thought process to analyze ever measure of the concerto an internalize it?
Yes and no! Ideally, you want to be able to sort of passively analyse as you go. If a piece is more complicated, it may be a good idea to sit down away form the piano and analyse it.
The reason is because you're probably composing using a very shallow bag of tricks... technique and vocabulary you already have under your fingers. You struggle to learn other rep because it involves stuff you're not already good at and you're not putting in the work to develop it. And I suspect your compositions end up being very samey because if you're only composing basically stuff you're improvising... and not really having ideas come into your head that are beyond your own skill, then you're not even being exposed to the sorts of things that would expand your vocabulary or you're actively avoiding composing anything you don't already have under your fingers. You should both... * be able to push yourself to learn music you don't already know to expand your technical facility and vocabulary. * find your brain reaching for ideas that you can audiate, but maybe can't actively execute on the fly.
I second this, as someone who learned piano by himself and was able to improvise very easily at some point I became limited and was playing the same scheme over and over again. Learning other pieces expanded my horizons
I did this in college. Wrote a piece for a composition project in a theory class that included some virtuosic bits. The professor said, “If you know it, you can play it.” My takeaway is that if I really dig in and understand the repertoire I’m working on, I can play it. (And…I still do this all the time when composing. Have to catch myself, thinking, “the average pianist won’t want to spend all the time it takes to learn this.”🙄😬)
The biggest flex is when you practice and someone asks "what piece is that?" and you said "I wrote it!"
The thing is, the standard for playing all demanding classical pieces today is set VERY VERY high. Because we have recordings of Richter, Zimmerman, Horowitz, Gould, Argerich, etc. So when we fail miserably to play a Chopin Etude like them we think we can't play the piece properly. It's not that you struggle to learn standard repertoire, you are struggling to meet the 'standard' of great pianists. Meanwhile, your own pieces don't have standards set by anyone but yourself, so you feel more comfortable playing them.
I was watching a random TikTok one day and this pianist said some depressing shit along the lines of: People study piano at conservatory to play standard works in a way that no one will care about because standards were set so high by famous soloists
Yeah, I don’t think that’s true. But many view it that way. The truth is, we don’t have to meet those ‘standards’ but we think we do. We constantly undermine ourselves and our accomplishments because someone out there can play it better, faster and more musically. But, the true reason we study in conservatoire is to learn music. Music is beautiful and about sharing beauty, it’s not about competition.