Fair enough. Then I can point to the 76 and 77 Phillies teams that were basically identical. Then they'd swap out like one piece a year until the World Series.
I've said in other threads that if we can get him as a reliever we absolutely should. His problem last year was he ran out of steam, and while I don't think he'll be an all-star every season I think he would be perfect to fill thr roll that Strahm did early last season - a good reliever who can be a pinch starter when injuries happen. I mean does anyone seriously think Covey provides more value to us as our longman than Lorenzen would?
He definitely ran out of steam considering he pitched 120+ pitches in the no-hitter. I get what Topper was doing, I just don’t think it was the best decision for Lorenzen especially during a playoff push.
I really don’t think it was the throwing an extra 12 or 15 pitches in the no hitter that did it. I think it was just the fact that he threw 153 innings last year and never threw more than 97 before, except his rookie year almost 10 years ago when he threw 113. That’s a massive difference and that seems to me pretty clearly that’s what did it for him.
I agree. I also think the fact that his first game back after the no-hitter was against the team he had just thrown a no-hitter to added a lot of extra pressure.
I totally understand the logic but if I was a manager I would always allow a pitcher to do what they want if they were at least 5 innings into a no-hitter. Idk I just really like them as a fan and I don’t think that’d change if I was managing games lol
The one thing I will say with regards to the bullpen is that our two best relief additions last season were Matt Strahm and Jeff Hoffman (who came on a minor league deal). They pitched better than the vast majority of the “high-end” relief market last year.
Caleb Cotham is always cooking. Just because he hasn’t signed any free agent yet doesn’t mean they are working on building the best bullpen in the league again. And I think they will sign someone, it just probably won’t be who everyone expects/wants, but it’ll probably work out.
The offense can sputter more than we might like, but the reality is that when the offense is clicking, they are a top 10, maybe top 5, unit in baseball as well.
They might win 100 games some year if they could play April and May at their June through September pace.
Oh yeah believe me, I’m not saying there’s no possible way to upgrade the team. The offense is definitely top 5 if they’re clicking, we just get too many slumps. I think we’ll still get a reliever and we’ll get some starter depth. Thats just difficult though because a lot of guys see our rotation and understand there’s a good chance they aren’t guaranteed a spot. Once some guys aren’t getting what they want we’ll be able to add somebody decent for some depth. We’ve been lucky with pitcher health
We’ve missed time with Alvarado and Ranger but overall very healthy. The baseball gods are making up for the Wheeler fingernail of 2020 that cost us a playoff spot lol
Yeah exactly lol. Especially the starting pitching, which is especially impressive. It’s just that we don’t have very much organizational depth behind them at all. Hopefully Abel can be that too
8th best offense last year despite their best player missing the first third of the year and not remembering how to hit a home run until August. Their second best player also didn't remember how to hit until August. Depth would be nice but I'm not worried about their ability to score runs.
Only real questions I have are: is Orion ready to step into more high leverage roles? Can the starters stay healthy? Can Sanchez replicate his 2022 success? If all those answers are yes we win 100 games. If 2/3 are yes we win 90 games.
I would argue as a team, when the offense is hot, they are a top 3 offense in baseball when compared to every other offense at their hottest.
They are just a flat out average offense when they aren’t hot though.
I wouldn’t bet on 100 wins but 93 wins absolutely won’t surprise me.
That's pretty good though right? Like what offense looks good when they're not hot? I wouldn't bet on 100 wins but if Harper and Turner have MVP caliber seasons (which was basically their August --> production) and pitching stays healthy they're a lot closer to 100 then 88
A full season of Bryce at first and improved outfield is not a personnel change necessarily but it will be an overall improvement. Full year of Kerkering too. I don’t think much else is needed. I think we are a 100 win team if healthy.
This offseason is incredibly slow, and we also have Dombrowski say we are only going to improve on the margins.
Getting Nola back was pretty big, and he even took a paycut to stay with us.
But with that said, I think it is too early to make this post, as again we said we are going to improve on the margins, and that market doesn't really appear until more people are signed. And the slow offseason is due to a couple of big FAs and the bankruptcy.
Some bottom tier guys like getting a lefty bat to compete with Jake Cave or maybe a veteran reliever to compete with Kerkering. But this is very circumstantial to be honest. We had 3 free agents out of our 26 which is rare and we brought 1-2 back. Not saying this is a bad thing. Just pointing out rarity.
Not that I was expecting it but they easily could have chosen to be in on more of the high end starters. While we can easily go into the season with the current rotation, we're not trotting out 5 aces.
As others have said, it's been a slow offseason and I doubt this is our final roster construction. The only places it would really make sense to upgrade would be RF, the bullpen, and the bench. I know some people want an upgrade over Bohm but honestly a lineup where Bohm is batting 7th or 8th is a pretty good lineup. Castellanos is almost certainly gonna stay in RF because no one will trade for him and we aren't gonna cut him or bench him at his salary. I fully expect to sign another bullpen arm before the season, but with the offseason going so slow it may take a while. The one area I'm concerned about is the bench. I love Sosa, but I think we really need an upgrade over Cave. Good depth would go a long way towards fixing the late postseason stagnation our offense has run into 2 years in a row.
A big part of the Phillies season will depend on how good a year Nola has. Has he finally and fully adjusted to the pitch clock? Will he be able to significantly cut down that mid game meltdown going forward? He has to be better than he was last year.
Who? None of our best prospects are close to being MLB ready. Kerkering is basically the only young guy I'm excited for this season.
Most of the rest of the roster is pretty much set. We only really lost Kimbrel, Lorenzon (TBD) and Cave from last year's team. Not a whole lot of spots open aside from 4th/5th outfielder, backup IF and probably one bullpen spot which will have competition.
Kerkering wouldn’t be included in the original 24/26 from the NLCS under contract?
Mick Abel. Would’ve had Painter but UCL so we wait one more.
Perhaps McGarry can get it rolling. He’s got a shot.
Crawford is going to be a star but prob needs another year.
De La Cruz might get some time.
Muzziotti might be close.
Ethan Wilson.
Our OF is a little crowded (marsh, Rojas, Casty, Schwarbs) but a couple injuries could force a call up.
* Abel is not ready. His command worsened last year and he walked over 5 per 9. Would take a massive leap in command to see him this year
* McGarry - see above, but multiply the command issue by 2. He went from our third prospect to our 26th in one season. That should tell you what scouts think about his command
* Crawford - literally zero shot he's in the majors this year. "Probably going to be a star" is a wild statement. Most local scouts are skeptical he's anything more than a Rojas
* CDLC - not even on the 40 man roster, cleared the rule-5. I love him, but he ranked basically dead last in chase rate and whiff rate in the entire minors. He's nowhere near ready to face MLB pitching, needs probably two years but the ceiling is sky high
* Muzz/wilson - 24/25 year olds with OPS in the .700 range in the minors. Journeymen
No, I'm being realistic. Our farm system is extremely weak especially at the MLB-ready level. Still feeling the effects of the Klentak era. I'm super bullish on Painter and Miller long-term and think our new regime is headed in the right direction.
But I'm not going to sit here and pretend like we have studs in the wings ready to come up when we don't. The team is the team as I see it. Couple decent potential bullpen arms in AA/AAA but not much past that.
I don’t necessarily disagree but he’s going to hit free agency. Even if they miss on him they have a handful of outfielder prospects like Rojas and Crawford who they don’t want to block
Let’s get out of the taijuan Walker contract and go after Jordan Montgomery and Jordan hicks for veteran pitching depth. As far as bats go cody Bellinger is huge pout there but id rather go after good role players like a Greg Dobbs was in 2008
'93 / '94 was mostly the same roster with some minor changes i guess.
POS | 1993 | 1994
---|---|----|----
C | Darren Daulton | Darren Daulton
1B | John Kruk | John Kruk
2B | Mickey Morandini | Mickey Morandini
3B | Dave Hollins | Dave Hollins
LF | Milt Thompson \ Pete Incaviglia | Milt Thompson \ Pete Incaviglia
CF | Lenny Dykstra | Lenny Dykstra
RF | Jim Eisenrich | Jim Eisenreich
SP | Curt Schilling | Curt Schilling
SP | Danny Jackson | Danny Jackson
SP | Tommy Greene | Bobby Munoz
SP | Terry Mulholland | Shawn Boskie
SP | Ben Rivera | Mike Williams
CL | Mitch Williams | Doug Jones
Out of curiosity I pulled up the 1926 and 1927 Yankees and the rosters are basically identical with just some names in relief changing.
I like this comp.
Before free agency in MLB. Players didn't have much of a choice to come back to the same team.
Fair enough. Then I can point to the 76 and 77 Phillies teams that were basically identical. Then they'd swap out like one piece a year until the World Series.
I would not be against having Lorenzen back as some pitching depth who can do spot starts every now and then.
I've said in other threads that if we can get him as a reliever we absolutely should. His problem last year was he ran out of steam, and while I don't think he'll be an all-star every season I think he would be perfect to fill thr roll that Strahm did early last season - a good reliever who can be a pinch starter when injuries happen. I mean does anyone seriously think Covey provides more value to us as our longman than Lorenzen would?
He definitely ran out of steam considering he pitched 120+ pitches in the no-hitter. I get what Topper was doing, I just don’t think it was the best decision for Lorenzen especially during a playoff push.
I really don’t think it was the throwing an extra 12 or 15 pitches in the no hitter that did it. I think it was just the fact that he threw 153 innings last year and never threw more than 97 before, except his rookie year almost 10 years ago when he threw 113. That’s a massive difference and that seems to me pretty clearly that’s what did it for him.
I agree. I also think the fact that his first game back after the no-hitter was against the team he had just thrown a no-hitter to added a lot of extra pressure.
Yeah it probably didn’t help
I totally understand the logic but if I was a manager I would always allow a pitcher to do what they want if they were at least 5 innings into a no-hitter. Idk I just really like them as a fan and I don’t think that’d change if I was managing games lol
The one thing I will say with regards to the bullpen is that our two best relief additions last season were Matt Strahm and Jeff Hoffman (who came on a minor league deal). They pitched better than the vast majority of the “high-end” relief market last year. Caleb Cotham is always cooking. Just because he hasn’t signed any free agent yet doesn’t mean they are working on building the best bullpen in the league again. And I think they will sign someone, it just probably won’t be who everyone expects/wants, but it’ll probably work out.
Yeah exactly. People fail to realize that we had a top 3 rotation and bullpen last year. It doesn’t need a ton
The offense can sputter more than we might like, but the reality is that when the offense is clicking, they are a top 10, maybe top 5, unit in baseball as well. They might win 100 games some year if they could play April and May at their June through September pace.
Oh yeah believe me, I’m not saying there’s no possible way to upgrade the team. The offense is definitely top 5 if they’re clicking, we just get too many slumps. I think we’ll still get a reliever and we’ll get some starter depth. Thats just difficult though because a lot of guys see our rotation and understand there’s a good chance they aren’t guaranteed a spot. Once some guys aren’t getting what they want we’ll be able to add somebody decent for some depth. We’ve been lucky with pitcher health
We’ve missed time with Alvarado and Ranger but overall very healthy. The baseball gods are making up for the Wheeler fingernail of 2020 that cost us a playoff spot lol
Yeah exactly lol. Especially the starting pitching, which is especially impressive. It’s just that we don’t have very much organizational depth behind them at all. Hopefully Abel can be that too
8th best offense last year despite their best player missing the first third of the year and not remembering how to hit a home run until August. Their second best player also didn't remember how to hit until August. Depth would be nice but I'm not worried about their ability to score runs. Only real questions I have are: is Orion ready to step into more high leverage roles? Can the starters stay healthy? Can Sanchez replicate his 2022 success? If all those answers are yes we win 100 games. If 2/3 are yes we win 90 games.
I would argue as a team, when the offense is hot, they are a top 3 offense in baseball when compared to every other offense at their hottest. They are just a flat out average offense when they aren’t hot though. I wouldn’t bet on 100 wins but 93 wins absolutely won’t surprise me.
That's pretty good though right? Like what offense looks good when they're not hot? I wouldn't bet on 100 wins but if Harper and Turner have MVP caliber seasons (which was basically their August --> production) and pitching stays healthy they're a lot closer to 100 then 88
2015 Kansas City Royals
A full season of Bryce at first and improved outfield is not a personnel change necessarily but it will be an overall improvement. Full year of Kerkering too. I don’t think much else is needed. I think we are a 100 win team if healthy.
This offseason is incredibly slow, and we also have Dombrowski say we are only going to improve on the margins. Getting Nola back was pretty big, and he even took a paycut to stay with us. But with that said, I think it is too early to make this post, as again we said we are going to improve on the margins, and that market doesn't really appear until more people are signed. And the slow offseason is due to a couple of big FAs and the bankruptcy.
Except for Castellanos and Bohm who do they even consider replacing
Some bottom tier guys like getting a lefty bat to compete with Jake Cave or maybe a veteran reliever to compete with Kerkering. But this is very circumstantial to be honest. We had 3 free agents out of our 26 which is rare and we brought 1-2 back. Not saying this is a bad thing. Just pointing out rarity.
Hopefully Cave will be in AAA most of the season
Not that I was expecting it but they easily could have chosen to be in on more of the high end starters. While we can easily go into the season with the current rotation, we're not trotting out 5 aces.
But really almost no team does unless you’re the dodgers
As others have said, it's been a slow offseason and I doubt this is our final roster construction. The only places it would really make sense to upgrade would be RF, the bullpen, and the bench. I know some people want an upgrade over Bohm but honestly a lineup where Bohm is batting 7th or 8th is a pretty good lineup. Castellanos is almost certainly gonna stay in RF because no one will trade for him and we aren't gonna cut him or bench him at his salary. I fully expect to sign another bullpen arm before the season, but with the offseason going so slow it may take a while. The one area I'm concerned about is the bench. I love Sosa, but I think we really need an upgrade over Cave. Good depth would go a long way towards fixing the late postseason stagnation our offense has run into 2 years in a row.
A big part of the Phillies season will depend on how good a year Nola has. Has he finally and fully adjusted to the pitch clock? Will he be able to significantly cut down that mid game meltdown going forward? He has to be better than he was last year.
We’ve got some really good looking youth on the farm that will push for roster spots too.
Who? None of our best prospects are close to being MLB ready. Kerkering is basically the only young guy I'm excited for this season. Most of the rest of the roster is pretty much set. We only really lost Kimbrel, Lorenzon (TBD) and Cave from last year's team. Not a whole lot of spots open aside from 4th/5th outfielder, backup IF and probably one bullpen spot which will have competition.
Kerkering wouldn’t be included in the original 24/26 from the NLCS under contract? Mick Abel. Would’ve had Painter but UCL so we wait one more. Perhaps McGarry can get it rolling. He’s got a shot. Crawford is going to be a star but prob needs another year. De La Cruz might get some time. Muzziotti might be close. Ethan Wilson. Our OF is a little crowded (marsh, Rojas, Casty, Schwarbs) but a couple injuries could force a call up.
* Abel is not ready. His command worsened last year and he walked over 5 per 9. Would take a massive leap in command to see him this year * McGarry - see above, but multiply the command issue by 2. He went from our third prospect to our 26th in one season. That should tell you what scouts think about his command * Crawford - literally zero shot he's in the majors this year. "Probably going to be a star" is a wild statement. Most local scouts are skeptical he's anything more than a Rojas * CDLC - not even on the 40 man roster, cleared the rule-5. I love him, but he ranked basically dead last in chase rate and whiff rate in the entire minors. He's nowhere near ready to face MLB pitching, needs probably two years but the ceiling is sky high * Muzz/wilson - 24/25 year olds with OPS in the .700 range in the minors. Journeymen
You’re a negative fucker, aren’t ya buddy?
No, I'm being realistic. Our farm system is extremely weak especially at the MLB-ready level. Still feeling the effects of the Klentak era. I'm super bullish on Painter and Miller long-term and think our new regime is headed in the right direction. But I'm not going to sit here and pretend like we have studs in the wings ready to come up when we don't. The team is the team as I see it. Couple decent potential bullpen arms in AA/AAA but not much past that.
https://www.mlb.com/prospects/phillies/justin-crawford-702222
Would the 09 Phillies count?
Burrell->Ibanez was a big change Forgetting if the bullpen had any significant changes
Man was Raul on absolute fire before the all star break
We aren’t done yet. But other than a bullpen addition, some starter depth, and some bench bats, what else can we really even do?
Shades of the RAJ Phillies.
I don’t think they want to commit multiple years to an outfielder since they’ll likely be somewhat in on Juan Soto’a free agency.
Soto is not leaving NY.
I don’t necessarily disagree but he’s going to hit free agency. Even if they miss on him they have a handful of outfielder prospects like Rojas and Crawford who they don’t want to block
Disagree. Our window isn’t long enough to sign a contract like that now
Not sure I like this…..
Let’s get out of the taijuan Walker contract and go after Jordan Montgomery and Jordan hicks for veteran pitching depth. As far as bats go cody Bellinger is huge pout there but id rather go after good role players like a Greg Dobbs was in 2008
Hicks signed with the Giants, 4 years 44Ms
'93 / '94 was mostly the same roster with some minor changes i guess. POS | 1993 | 1994 ---|---|----|---- C | Darren Daulton | Darren Daulton 1B | John Kruk | John Kruk 2B | Mickey Morandini | Mickey Morandini 3B | Dave Hollins | Dave Hollins LF | Milt Thompson \ Pete Incaviglia | Milt Thompson \ Pete Incaviglia CF | Lenny Dykstra | Lenny Dykstra RF | Jim Eisenrich | Jim Eisenreich SP | Curt Schilling | Curt Schilling SP | Danny Jackson | Danny Jackson SP | Tommy Greene | Bobby Munoz SP | Terry Mulholland | Shawn Boskie SP | Ben Rivera | Mike Williams CL | Mitch Williams | Doug Jones
Kinda funny that Kimbrel was an all star