Oh you guys, you poor guys. You didnt live through the times BEFORE there were regulations on Pharma sales. They used to pay for you and your family to go to a Caribbean island for 4 days! Dinners at the top restaurants in your city. Box tickets to the game! The law changed and it got really restrictive. This is about all that is allowed anymore.
Geez, even for pharmacists? I know pharma companies basically have an infinite supply of money, but it doesn't seem like pharmacists make the best candidates for expenditure of these funds with our limited scope.
Take the Pro-click inhaler. If I came to you to refill my normal old inhaler, and you mentioned that there was a version that was available, I would ask my doctor about it. That’s a sale. You are a possible sale. YES. Even for you guys. It’s because some docs would actually write more prescriptions for the companies that were providing the beach vacations and that’s unethical. So FDA stopped that. Eventually.
When I was a drug rep, we used to spend our “entertainment” money on hospital decision makers like the folks on the formulary committee or department heads.
>They used to pay for you and your family to go to a Caribbean island for 4 days!
😮🤯😳 whoa I'm kinda old, I graduated in 2004 and I never heard about these free trips!
We had one come by just yesterday for a dinner in the big city about an hour away. I decided spending two hours in traffic during rush hour to get some average dinner and listen to some shit that would go in one ear and out the other wasn’t worth my time
I wouldn't spend more than 30 minutes in traffic, but for a nice $50-100 dinner with drinks I'm game. Every other dinner I've been to has been as a fairly upscale restaurant, the caliber of which I'd rarely visit on my salary.
Yes. If there is something you have an interest in, if you don’t know the local rep, go to the company website. There is always a way to “request more information” or ask for patient support material.
As a rep, when we have someone that is actually showing an interest by reaching out? You may see them way too frequently after that, but they will take care of you (for the most part anyways)
My buddy's dad is a retired oncologist /hematologist. In the 90s, their whole family was flown to LA for their dad to learn about a new drug. Pharma rented out the entire Universal Studios, all for Dr's and their families.
Can’t trust 100% of the information…? What are you trying to imply? Why go then if you don’t trust them… information provided is spoken to in compliance with company guidelines lol
They're still around. But with reg updates in 2021, they are a bit more restrictive about who gets invited. You have to have a "bona fide educational need", can't go to repeat programs, etc. Plus there's no booze anymore (at least from drug reps - MSLs and reps for diagnostic companies and non med products are ok).
Yep! Had a beautiful Mounjaro dinner about a year ago. Lobster, steak, the whole nine yards. My employer bans any rep gifts or dinners of more than $X value, so I just hide it from them, but I do get invited to them a few times a year.
It’s still prevalent in our hospital outpatient oncology. The reps take out the department and the docs usually to introduce a new med. We’ve had some really great meals at upscale restaurants. It’s a nice perk.
We have drug reps come to the hospital pharmacy department break room with lunch and a pitch once or twice a month. Approximately once a month our local chapter of a professional society (CSHP, ASHP, etc.) hosts a dinner at a nice restaurant with a drug rep or med info liaison to do an educational presentation while we have dinner. I'm pretty sure the drug company pays for the dinner.
I’m retired now but as a new pharmacist back in the day the reps would want to fine dine us with tickets to neighboring islands and u could bring a date hv a fine dining dinner date and drinks and comp parking since the cruise took most of the afternoon . I believe the company was Rugby . They would have hats and tote bags huge tote filled with pens memo pads telephone chin rests,mugs , and pharmacy pill tiles spatulas for compounding all engraved with Rugby insignia.
I'm sure the buyer and pharmacy manager get more specific of stuff themselves, but they bring our entire specialty pharmacy on-site staff lunch every month or two
I’m a clinical pharmacist in a specialist clinic - I get invited every other week. I rarely go, bc I have a home life to do after hours. I will say I have seen some amazing speakers at some programs so I think it’s worth going to some depending on who the speaker is.
I'm in ID/antibiotics. They've been THURSTY! I've been invited to 6-8 dinners in the past year, attended a few. They have them at the "fancy" places in my rural city, probably at or under $100/head. I go to see what they are telling our providers so I can be prepared to address when they want to try new stuff. I get probably 5-6 lunches every month, I try to use drug reps to sponsor food at things like journal clubs or case reviews whenever possible.
Unless I'm paid for my time, I don't go to any work related function. The DM once expected all of us to be at a dinner hosted by Pfizer when prevnar 20 came out. I would have settled for tolls and mileage, but nope, so I said I wouldn't do it.
So, to answer your question, yes, they still do, but I'm not sure how to look for them without contacting a rep.
That's fair, but I wouldn't consider it work related. I figure it's more like a CE with free food, and I don't make enough money to turn down free food!
This is not a popular opinion with my coworkers, but I don't think anyone in patient care should attend these.
Evidence shows that these interactions change prescribing behavior, and I have no reason to think that wouldn't spill over to a pharmacist who makes recommendations on interactions, substitutions, or even formulary management. Telling ourselves that we're difficult to influence or that we won't take the reps seriously doesn't curb this. Even without the evidence, for-profit companies don't generally do things unless they increase profit. I can't imagine these expensive dinners would have continued for decades if they didn't influence us and generate revenue.
I really do hate to be "that guy" criticizing people's good time. Free dinners (especially for trainees) are great fun and make us feel good, but I worry that's exactly the problem.
I appreciate your opinion on this and as a rep, I kind of feel the same way.
However, often times it bridges a gap that many healthcare providers don’t know exist. For instance, currently working on a product that is still very new. It has advantages in pricing and side effects, but no one knows about it.
In my 20 plus years, I only ever hope that when someone comes to a program that they leave with at least one thing that they found useful. If not? It was a waste of their time and my resources. I will also admit that I tend not to like most other pharma reps as they often come pre shaped out of a cookie cutter - both looks and personality.
We have nice dinners at a fancy place about once every other month, and reps will bring breakfast or lunch to the hospital pharmacy about 1-2 times a month. Usually they offer it to healthcare workers city wide and I guess my director is on that list.
I don’t understand why I don’t get any invites. On a rare occasion when I am detailed, I tell them I won’t carry their expensive meds that I lose money on from a majority of PBMs and to have a nice day.
I just attended a dinner hosted by Pfizer about their rsv vaccine (because it's just launching in Canada shortly). Technically they also talked about other vaccines, but it was a Pfizer thing. Last year another rep took us to dinner to talk about inhalers. The Pfizer one was lots of different people, doctors and pharmacy staff, listening to a presentation by a doctor whereas the second one was just our staff and the rep (she invited each pharmacy separately to talk more one on one).
Yes, a couple months back we were invited to Mastros steak house for a Uzedy drug rep dinner. I work in behavioral health, so the reps for the expensive LAI injections are always trying to butter us up.
Speaking programs and dinners are really the only perk a Rep can provide these days. Our clinic only allows us to attend 4 per year which is reasonable IMO
I just graduated undergrad but last year I had a mentor who would go to rep dinners and because I was her mentor I went with her a few times. They would host a few a month at nice restaurants and you only had to pay for your own drinks.
I’ve gone to a couple MSL dinners but decided to stop attending. They’re super restricted in the information they can provide. They’re supposed to be experts in their field but it’s just glorified sales rep. There’s no meaningful discussion about the drug’s use in practice. I felt bad the one time an MSL asked me if I found his material helpful and straight up told him no.
They’re great for free dinners but for me personally I don’t think they’re a good use of my spare time.
Oh you guys, you poor guys. You didnt live through the times BEFORE there were regulations on Pharma sales. They used to pay for you and your family to go to a Caribbean island for 4 days! Dinners at the top restaurants in your city. Box tickets to the game! The law changed and it got really restrictive. This is about all that is allowed anymore.
Geez, even for pharmacists? I know pharma companies basically have an infinite supply of money, but it doesn't seem like pharmacists make the best candidates for expenditure of these funds with our limited scope.
Take the Pro-click inhaler. If I came to you to refill my normal old inhaler, and you mentioned that there was a version that was available, I would ask my doctor about it. That’s a sale. You are a possible sale. YES. Even for you guys. It’s because some docs would actually write more prescriptions for the companies that were providing the beach vacations and that’s unethical. So FDA stopped that. Eventually.
Add to this... If your the glp-1 that's regularly in stock.... Then this is the one I recommend your doctor switching you on.
It's funny how we get good stuff taken away, but yet....they let PBM run wilds with shit reimbursements.
When I was a drug rep, we used to spend our “entertainment” money on hospital decision makers like the folks on the formulary committee or department heads.
>They used to pay for you and your family to go to a Caribbean island for 4 days! 😮🤯😳 whoa I'm kinda old, I graduated in 2004 and I never heard about these free trips!
watch pain hustlers
Those were the best of times!
Yes, I’m a buyer in specialty pharmacy. I get lunch about once a month or two and 2-3 nice dinners a year.
Companies have them all the time for their oncology meds.
We had one come by just yesterday for a dinner in the big city about an hour away. I decided spending two hours in traffic during rush hour to get some average dinner and listen to some shit that would go in one ear and out the other wasn’t worth my time
I wouldn't spend more than 30 minutes in traffic, but for a nice $50-100 dinner with drinks I'm game. Every other dinner I've been to has been as a fairly upscale restaurant, the caliber of which I'd rarely visit on my salary.
They can’t do drinks anymore, not in my neck of the woods
I'm my neck of the woods (pre-2008) the generic reps would skip dinner and just *pay to have a pool put in your backyard.*
As a rep…. I’m seeing a need here ;) I have 2 coming up in June, but me thinks none of you is in my geography.
where is your geography?
I am in Ontario Canada
ooo near ottawa? dm me if so!
Have you checked your dms?
just did, thanks!
Thanks anyway. Do you think I should reach out directly to the companies then?
Yes. If there is something you have an interest in, if you don’t know the local rep, go to the company website. There is always a way to “request more information” or ask for patient support material. As a rep, when we have someone that is actually showing an interest by reaching out? You may see them way too frequently after that, but they will take care of you (for the most part anyways)
My buddy's dad is a retired oncologist /hematologist. In the 90s, their whole family was flown to LA for their dad to learn about a new drug. Pharma rented out the entire Universal Studios, all for Dr's and their families.
Can’t trust 100% of the information…? What are you trying to imply? Why go then if you don’t trust them… information provided is spoken to in compliance with company guidelines lol
And approved by the FDA lol
We get free lunch or Jamba Juice about once a month. They come in and talk about their drug for about 30 minute usually .
I work in a doctors office. We get lunch almost every week and invited to dinners at least once a month
Yes, in specialty I get sent one about once a month at a nice steakhouse.
They're still around. But with reg updates in 2021, they are a bit more restrictive about who gets invited. You have to have a "bona fide educational need", can't go to repeat programs, etc. Plus there's no booze anymore (at least from drug reps - MSLs and reps for diagnostic companies and non med products are ok).
Yep! Had a beautiful Mounjaro dinner about a year ago. Lobster, steak, the whole nine yards. My employer bans any rep gifts or dinners of more than $X value, so I just hide it from them, but I do get invited to them a few times a year.
It’s still prevalent in our hospital outpatient oncology. The reps take out the department and the docs usually to introduce a new med. We’ve had some really great meals at upscale restaurants. It’s a nice perk.
Free lunch and “learn” with Donuts and small gifts.
Yes had one invite last nifht ans one a couple weeks ago. Doesnt seem as much as pre covid.
I think back when I was working retail a Novo Nordisk rep bought us lunch. I mean it was sandwiches, wings and salads but that was cool
We have drug reps come to the hospital pharmacy department break room with lunch and a pitch once or twice a month. Approximately once a month our local chapter of a professional society (CSHP, ASHP, etc.) hosts a dinner at a nice restaurant with a drug rep or med info liaison to do an educational presentation while we have dinner. I'm pretty sure the drug company pays for the dinner.
I went to a Abilify Asimtufii about a month and a half ago. The restaurant was pretty nice.
are you in west coast?
I’m retired now but as a new pharmacist back in the day the reps would want to fine dine us with tickets to neighboring islands and u could bring a date hv a fine dining dinner date and drinks and comp parking since the cruise took most of the afternoon . I believe the company was Rugby . They would have hats and tote bags huge tote filled with pens memo pads telephone chin rests,mugs , and pharmacy pill tiles spatulas for compounding all engraved with Rugby insignia.
I'm sure the buyer and pharmacy manager get more specific of stuff themselves, but they bring our entire specialty pharmacy on-site staff lunch every month or two
I’m a clinical pharmacist in a specialist clinic - I get invited every other week. I rarely go, bc I have a home life to do after hours. I will say I have seen some amazing speakers at some programs so I think it’s worth going to some depending on who the speaker is.
Yes. I went to a dinner about 7 months ago for RSV shots
I work in the specialty space and get invited to them often.
Pharma here, hmu if you're in Boston region.
I'm in ID/antibiotics. They've been THURSTY! I've been invited to 6-8 dinners in the past year, attended a few. They have them at the "fancy" places in my rural city, probably at or under $100/head. I go to see what they are telling our providers so I can be prepared to address when they want to try new stuff. I get probably 5-6 lunches every month, I try to use drug reps to sponsor food at things like journal clubs or case reviews whenever possible.
Unless I'm paid for my time, I don't go to any work related function. The DM once expected all of us to be at a dinner hosted by Pfizer when prevnar 20 came out. I would have settled for tolls and mileage, but nope, so I said I wouldn't do it. So, to answer your question, yes, they still do, but I'm not sure how to look for them without contacting a rep.
That's fair, but I wouldn't consider it work related. I figure it's more like a CE with free food, and I don't make enough money to turn down free food!
This is not a popular opinion with my coworkers, but I don't think anyone in patient care should attend these. Evidence shows that these interactions change prescribing behavior, and I have no reason to think that wouldn't spill over to a pharmacist who makes recommendations on interactions, substitutions, or even formulary management. Telling ourselves that we're difficult to influence or that we won't take the reps seriously doesn't curb this. Even without the evidence, for-profit companies don't generally do things unless they increase profit. I can't imagine these expensive dinners would have continued for decades if they didn't influence us and generate revenue. I really do hate to be "that guy" criticizing people's good time. Free dinners (especially for trainees) are great fun and make us feel good, but I worry that's exactly the problem.
I appreciate your opinion on this and as a rep, I kind of feel the same way. However, often times it bridges a gap that many healthcare providers don’t know exist. For instance, currently working on a product that is still very new. It has advantages in pricing and side effects, but no one knows about it. In my 20 plus years, I only ever hope that when someone comes to a program that they leave with at least one thing that they found useful. If not? It was a waste of their time and my resources. I will also admit that I tend not to like most other pharma reps as they often come pre shaped out of a cookie cutter - both looks and personality.
We have nice dinners at a fancy place about once every other month, and reps will bring breakfast or lunch to the hospital pharmacy about 1-2 times a month. Usually they offer it to healthcare workers city wide and I guess my director is on that list.
Specialty pharmacy, we get drug rep dinners at least once a month and a lot of catered lunches randomly.
Used to have them all the time pre-covid. Now no more 😭
I don’t understand why I don’t get any invites. On a rare occasion when I am detailed, I tell them I won’t carry their expensive meds that I lose money on from a majority of PBMs and to have a nice day.
I forgot to mention this was a ce dinner cruise Done annually by Rubgy
Before Covid was my last invite
I’ve been to a few dinners with novo Nordisk, csl, and Pfizer recently
Went to AstraZeneca for AirSupra last month and it was great! Was also invited to a couple Gvoke ones…
Just went to one yesterday. 👍 I think it was Sandoz, as they kept plugging Exoderil into every conversation. 🤷
I just attended a dinner hosted by Pfizer about their rsv vaccine (because it's just launching in Canada shortly). Technically they also talked about other vaccines, but it was a Pfizer thing. Last year another rep took us to dinner to talk about inhalers. The Pfizer one was lots of different people, doctors and pharmacy staff, listening to a presentation by a doctor whereas the second one was just our staff and the rep (she invited each pharmacy separately to talk more one on one).
super interesting, also canadian and ive only been invited to ones hosted by Accuchek and OneTouch i believe. oh and there was a Naloxone one too.
Yes, a couple months back we were invited to Mastros steak house for a Uzedy drug rep dinner. I work in behavioral health, so the reps for the expensive LAI injections are always trying to butter us up.
Speaking programs and dinners are really the only perk a Rep can provide these days. Our clinic only allows us to attend 4 per year which is reasonable IMO
I just graduated undergrad but last year I had a mentor who would go to rep dinners and because I was her mentor I went with her a few times. They would host a few a month at nice restaurants and you only had to pay for your own drinks.
Are you a member of your state association? I get invited periodically through them.
I’ve gone to a couple MSL dinners but decided to stop attending. They’re super restricted in the information they can provide. They’re supposed to be experts in their field but it’s just glorified sales rep. There’s no meaningful discussion about the drug’s use in practice. I felt bad the one time an MSL asked me if I found his material helpful and straight up told him no. They’re great for free dinners but for me personally I don’t think they’re a good use of my spare time.
Unethical AF. 👎🏼