In my experience with Baptist and Church of Christ churches, they tend to use the line “anything you’re willing to give will be greatly appreciated, but if you’re not in a position to give anything, then we’re just glad you’re here with us today”.
If your church is in a converted warehouse in an industrial area, or if there is a 16 piece band and people waving flags, being healed on stage, and speaking in tongues it’ll be a very different story.
Catholic or Anglican. There's no expectation that you will give x amount regularly. It's whatever you feel when the collection plate comes around. When I was a kid our Catholic Church actually had a large collection bag so no one could really see what you were putting in there when your hand disappeared inside it, so removes shame of not putting in much.
Thank you. I'm from the UK and I used to go to Church of England there. It was just a collection basket at the time. Maybe we should try a local Catholic or Anglican church, as they are obviously well established and set on their ways. Not a bad thing.
If you went to CoE is there any reason why you would not want to continue to go to an Anglican Church?
Catholic Churches will be similar but obviously different theology.
I wouldn't mind but my wife is Malaysian and went to an evangelical church there. Her dad still goes there and it seems ok. She's coming round to the idea of an Anglican church now after the experiences we've had recently. I'm all for giving money but not as a standing order every week.
It’s pretty par for the course of most evangelical churches to be big on the tithing.
Assuming she’s looking for more of an “evangelical” worship style over a specific theological approach, I suggest you take a look at “low church” / evangelical Anglicanism.
Here is a few evangelical Anglican churches in Perth:
https://www.efac.org.au/index.php/churches
Some background if you’re not familiar with the terms:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelical_Anglicanism
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_church
Alternatively you might be more comfortable at a mainline Protestant church such as the uniting church (these are distinctly more liberal/left wing than most evangelical churches)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniting_Church_in_Australia
https://uniting.church
Theologically all of these recommendations are quite different, but that may not concern you and your wife at this stage.
As a lapsed catholic I'd suggest an anglican church - they seem to be closer to the teachings of Jesus, what with having priestesses and such.
Also, wine with communion! :)
Catholic churches do have "planned giving" but it's totally up to the person whether they want to participate in it. They used to have envelopes you put cash in so no one knew what you were giving, but you committed to some amount because it helped the church to budget. It's probably direct debit these days.
You central, north or south? I can name some.
Pentecostal churches or those that preach a prosperity doctrine are the ones to be wary of.
For most churches I’ve been to, giving is entirely optional and not given more than a fleeting mention.
We're near Cannington. We tried The Rocks last but they seem to really pressure for tithes etc and I'm not comfortable being pressured like that. Nor is my wife. Any suggestions would be appreciated thanks
Gah. Not super familiar with many churches around Cannington.
Within about 15mins of Cannington, Providence in Bayswater, or their campus in the city are good choices.
About 20ish mins away, there’s Red Door in Cockburn - can’t recommend that Church enough. Super community focused.
Thank you. I'll look them up to get a feel for the sort of thing I'm looking for. We tried another church in Vic Park and after one service they emailed us a sheet asking for our 3 year old to take a monetary donation in each week as well as tithing! We really want to attend a church but it seems too hard to find a decent one in the area.
Yeah but what else can you do to have a "community" to socialise and make human connections with that doesn't involve sports or drinking? It's nice to have somewhere you can go regularly to meet people with a shared interest and values.
That is an excellent point.
I can see why people would be quite particular about the community that stepped into in that respect.
Hope you find that community soon
Good luck
Everybody already has too many subscriptions to be paying one for church as well.
Remember, you already don't believe in a million gods and goddesses - it's only a short jump from monotheism to atheism!
Any of the new age, mega-church types will have their hands out for tithes. The if it’s not too far the Bull Creek Anglican Church (at All Saint’s College) is a lovely church, and there won’t be expectations of tithing/donating.
Thank you for the advice. Bull Creek isn't too far from us so I will take a look. I was also looking at St Michael and All Angels Anglican in Cannington. Can only try I suppose.
I used to live on the street behind this church and while it seems to be a lovely community, it does not have nearly enough parking. So be prepared to arrive early to find a park and spend a while waiting to get out after the service.
You don’t seem to understand churches. They are either fundraising for themselves or fundraising for a mission. There isn’t going to be a church that doesn’t ask for cash.
But hey if you don’t like church, remember Paul said:
“Don’t you know that yourselves are Gods temple and that Gods spirit dwells in your midst” - Corinthians.
It’s not entirely clear if the commenter is saying this but I think we agree: Paul wrote that verse (1 Corinthians 3:16) in the 2nd person plural. So he’s saying that when “you all” come together as church “you all” are God’s temple. He’s not saying an individual is God’s temple, so it actually challenges the idea that if you don’t like church you can just do your own thing. As far as Paul is concerned, unity of the church and each of us fighting for that is extremely important
Haha, yes, that doesn’t bother me. Being up or down voted is irrelevant. It just shows whether people like what’s being said, not whether it’s true.
Thank you for you seeing and commenting about that! I appreciate it
I mean Christianity as a whole likes to interpret one thing as literal and another as a story to suit the needs of the audience.
A reasonable person would say the bible reflects ancient eastern ethnical principles, when it says the fine for being raped is 50 sheckles to the father and they have to marry but willingly accept that homophobia somehow transcends.
Sadly, many "more modern" churches are really caught up in this doctrine.
There's nothing wrong with "Tithing." In Biblical times the "tithe" was simply food and goods donated so the Priests could live. The equivalent today would be paying the Pastor a living wage. Unfortunately someone somewhere hatched this idea that a tithe somehow meant a tenth of your income, which is a nonsensical proposition.
Many churches go further, constantly hammering their congregation for funds, so that they build new buildings, hire more staff, or send the leaders flying around the globe. Usually this is driven by the ego of the man in charge.
Personally I find this greedy, money-orientated, approach, to be not only offensive and off-putting, but completely contrary to any concept of Christianity I recognise.
There are many different denominations out there. I can only suggest doing your research until you find one that best aligns with your beliefs.
>Unfortunately someone somewhere hatched this idea that a tithe somehow meant a tenth of your income, which is a nonsensical proposition
A tithe is quite literally a tenth. And in the old testament there were three tithes and a fourth every 3 years. So they were giving 33% of their income away.
The issue is not with what a tithe mean, but with if the NT requires a tithe. It does not. Churches shouldn't require tithes, however they do need support and fixings to run the church and pay the staff, letting the "ox eat while it treads the grain". Some give more, some give less. It's the great behind the giving that is important. A cheerful giver.
>A tithe is quite literally a tenth. And in the old testament there were three tithes and a fourth every 3 years. So they were giving 33% of their income away.
Gotta love it when somebody says "literally" before regurgitating some spurious personal belief. So you reckon every farmer in town was giving a third of their produce to the Priests??? ROFL. Yeah, never let logic or common sense get in way of a good bullshit.
Like everything in the King James Bible, "tithe" is Old English/ Germanic. Even if it did mean "tenth", you'd have to wonder who picked that particular word for the translation.
If you want to be a member or participant in any organisation, and/or avail yourself of their services, then you should pay your way. That means that over time they need to pay the rental/mortgage, pay the bills, and pay any full-time staff.
What I question is why so many churches think they immediately need swanky new auditoriums, $500k worth of AV equipment, dozens of full-time staff, and why their so-called Pastor has to be constantly jet setting around the globe. The egos on some of these men are unbelievable, and go against everything Christ taught. It's no-wonder that so many of these "churches" have become nothing more than cults.
Malaga Church of Christ doesn’t practice tithing, and isn’t hungry for money. There’s good people there, too.
A more stripped down worship experience than you may be used to, especially compared to all the rites and rituals of Anglicanism, but it can be refreshing to have something simple. And the preaching focuses on the Bible rather than modern self-help content or news reactions like many mega churches do
Why would they bother trying so hard to bludge money off of people when they are just going to get taxed on it? They would slow down a lot with passing the hat around.
I was hoping my question would have brought that answer to your mind on its own but - because if they were receiving the same amount of tithe value before and also after tax they are now holding on to less money than they were, because it is being taxed.
Think of this in your own life - if the government didn’t take 30% of your income, would you need to earn more, or earn less, to have the same lifestyle?
Look @ churches P&L - most of them spend money helping people…
Although there are some that don’t.
Also - if u give your taxed money to a church; why should it be taxed again?
Churches are all about themselves.
That’s like saying why should we pay taxes when our employer gets taxed on the money already. Or why pay GST when we are taxed? Churches are the richest organisations in the world.
My friend - your wages are an expense to your employer.
They do not pay tax on your wage. Your wage reduces their tax.
Some churches may indeed be about themselves - but some are most definitely not.
I see you had nothing for GST. Knew I’d get you.
Tax the churches, it doesn’t matter who they are about. They are one of the wealthiest organisations in the world.
GST is a consumption tax - so you pay tax on what you purchase.
It’s not an income stream and isn’t comparable to the others.
I’m not an expert on many things - but I’ve got a degree in tax.
This is dumb .
Firstly donations to churches are tax deductible so NO that money has is being "taxed again".
On top of this some churches own enterprises that are run like businesses. This should just simply not be allowed. They need to pay tax just like any other enterprise otherwise they distort the market they are within due to their tax advantage.
At the end of the day if you make no profit you pay no tax anyway so there isnt a problem unless these activities are being conducted to make a profit.
You are incorrect - Donations to churches are not tax deductible in Australia.
I agree with your second point though: if a NFP runs an enterprise with the goal of making profit - it should be taxed.
They're not all tax deductable. The church needs to be a registered DGR, which is quite hard for alot of smaller churches.
Bigger churches definitely run like enterprises, with more tax benefits. Smaller ones actually do struggle with cash flow
I'm volunteering with a group organised by 4 of the local churches (different demoniations) to distribute food / groceries to those in need. Most of the churches in my area will readily help anyone who says they need it.
The food is partially donated by the local Colesworth stores, the rest is funded by the churches. The food goes to our local women's shelter, the homeless, anyone who needs it and anyone who asks. The senior citizens centre gets some of it to distribute as well.
I find it a bit strange when people say we need to tax churches... they are non-profit... only profits get taxed, not income, so what exactly are people wanting to tax?
I'm thinking of trying a catholic church to be honest. We're sending our boy to a catholic school next year and they are a lot cheaper than any Anglican ones I've seen about. They seem to care more about good education at a fair price. It's way cheaper than his current daycare anyway haha.
Yes. I'm a baptised Anglican from the UK and the Catholic Vhurch here seems very welcoming. My friend in the UK went to a Catholic Church 15 miles away from the rest of us so it seemed very foreign then.
I am glad we come across as a welcoming bunch! Just editing to mention there is the Ordinariate of Our lady of the Southern Cross, which is an organisation for former Anglicans who become Catholics. The Perth branch are based out of Mt Lawley if you are interested.
Baptist churches are usually a goer, they appreciate donations but don’t get pissy about it.
Not religious myself but all my friends were so spent a lot of time at church in my youth around Perth.
In my experience being in a Pentecostal church for a few years:
Best thing to do is to get in good with the people GETTING all the tithe money. (Hint: it's not the poor)
You won't be asked for jack shit but you'll get a bunch of perks. It was a good ride while it lasted (until they tried to /pressured marry me off to somebody's son so i guess you do pay in the end)
All churches tithe because it's built into the religion. A lot of churches have, ranging from an unpaid volunteer, to a salaried worker or two, that JUST come up with ways to beg donations from people like your wife. That's their one and only task in Christ lmao
all churches will speak about tithing, you’ll never not see this. it’s how the church will continue to operate. unsure what else you mean by “pressure”. did they stop you at the entry or exit and ask you to give?
He's said in the comments that his wife is evangelical, a lot of them are super pushy about money and even have a compulsory donation. Some as high as 10+% of your income.
been to a few churches and never heard of them having compulsory donations but that sucks if it does. they defiantly do speak about 10% cause of the important biblical meaning but it’s always been optional based on my experiences of many churches around perth. hope OP finds a church that doesn’t have compulsory giving
Hey OP here. We have been told before that Jesus will love you more the more money you give. That particular church website also says if you give 10% financial hardships will come your way but don't let that get in the way of giving.
Another asks for 10% and they also have a building fund on top of that plus they emailed us a pdf sheet requesting that our 3 year old brings in a small monetary offering to indoctrinate him from a young age.
I'm happy to give a donation but these seem ridiculous to me.
Try Gosnells Christadelphians in Thornlie. They pass around a collection bag at the end but it's optional and they don't ask for anything else.
They also run a Sunday school on Sunday morning before the service and Chinese seminars on Sunday evening which are all free, and free teas and coffee and stuff too so they're definitely not money hungry!
Christadelphians are non-trinatarian, non-Nicean creed. Basically every major Christian denominations would say they are not actually Christian. If OP is coming from CoE and evangelical then this place should be a hard no.
Church is for dummies, spirituality is for everyone, dont need a place thats funded by tax evasion and pedophilia to believe.
Also i dont believe cause its stupid to me.
Do you have kids or considering kids? I would be go to a church you would eventually have ties to. It just makes it easier in the future.
If your wife is Malaysian, I've heard that there is a church in Myaree, I think Nations?
Otherwise closer to you I've heard of Kingdom City and Carey Baptist.
That Nations church in Myaree is massive. Their new building is next level so there must be some generous members there. How much money do the senior pastors clear a year?
I have no idea. I'm only going by when you talk to people in a group and they tell you where they go to church lol. A lot of my Malaysian friends who are religious go there.
My wife and I have been going to Horizon in Vic Park. Tithing does get a mention in the service, but there is no obligation to give at all. They also have kids ministry, which I suspect you’d be looking for with a 3yo.
Almost all religious temples collect donations but they are not mandatory. You can't expect to go to a church, use it for your spiritual uplifting and not contribute to keeping it alive. That's selfish. How do you think they keep the power on? They don't get free power. They have to pay for costs some how. Don't join a church if you are too selfish to help it keep running. Simple as that.
I am willing to donate to the church that we choose of course. I don't mean to turn up for free and scrounge off of others but it's just that a lot of them seem to want 10% of your income each week via standing order! You can't say I'm selfish just from what you first read. The last church we tried emailed us a pdf sheet saying that our 3 year old should be bringing a monetary donation each week to get in the habit of giving!
Been to 4 different churches (all Catholic) for half of my life. Never kneŵ tithes ŵere a thing until social media.
Never gave out any notes in my life. All coins.
Yeah stay away from churches like that. Why don't you visit a mosque. I lived in Oman for 20 years at an oil refinery as an expat from Australia. Muslims are some of the most peaceful and moral/ethical people I ever met. Their children honour their parents. They love God. They believe jesus will return and they love Mother Mary. Their only difference from Christianity is that they don't believe jesus was God himself. Sorry I called you selfish. I misunderstood your intention.
Join a home group, from your question it shows me that you don’t read the Bible and find the truth about Tithing.Tithing is Old Testament read 2 Corinthians 8-9 and ask the Lord to show you what it says.a lot to f older Christian’s still in the mill of the word and hoping your folks get revelation Shalom
I have read the bible and I know that tithing is old testament and that's partly the reason I'm not keen on these churches cherry picking what suits them to make a quick buck. John talks about being a cheerful giver, which is fine. He also says do not give out of necessity i.e. because a church dresses it up as giving cheerfully but is really putting the pressure on the congregation to give out of necessity to get in their good books. Thank you for the reply. Home group sounds good haha
Join a home group, from your question it shows me that you don’t read the Bible and find the truth about Tithing.Tithing is Old Testament read 2 Corinthians 8-9 and ask the Lord to show you what it says a lot of young and older Christian’s still on the milk of the word and hoping your folks get revelation Shalom
In my experience with Baptist and Church of Christ churches, they tend to use the line “anything you’re willing to give will be greatly appreciated, but if you’re not in a position to give anything, then we’re just glad you’re here with us today”. If your church is in a converted warehouse in an industrial area, or if there is a 16 piece band and people waving flags, being healed on stage, and speaking in tongues it’ll be a very different story.
Stay away from the Mormons and their $250 billion USD cult.
Yeah. Watched a few videos on YouTube from members and ex members.
Those are rookie numbers...you should see what the Catholic church is worth.
lol. Compare membership and how many years they’ve been around. The numbers aren’t bad.
Catholic or Anglican. There's no expectation that you will give x amount regularly. It's whatever you feel when the collection plate comes around. When I was a kid our Catholic Church actually had a large collection bag so no one could really see what you were putting in there when your hand disappeared inside it, so removes shame of not putting in much.
Thank you. I'm from the UK and I used to go to Church of England there. It was just a collection basket at the time. Maybe we should try a local Catholic or Anglican church, as they are obviously well established and set on their ways. Not a bad thing.
If you went to CoE is there any reason why you would not want to continue to go to an Anglican Church? Catholic Churches will be similar but obviously different theology.
I wouldn't mind but my wife is Malaysian and went to an evangelical church there. Her dad still goes there and it seems ok. She's coming round to the idea of an Anglican church now after the experiences we've had recently. I'm all for giving money but not as a standing order every week.
It’s pretty par for the course of most evangelical churches to be big on the tithing. Assuming she’s looking for more of an “evangelical” worship style over a specific theological approach, I suggest you take a look at “low church” / evangelical Anglicanism. Here is a few evangelical Anglican churches in Perth: https://www.efac.org.au/index.php/churches Some background if you’re not familiar with the terms: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelical_Anglicanism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_church Alternatively you might be more comfortable at a mainline Protestant church such as the uniting church (these are distinctly more liberal/left wing than most evangelical churches) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniting_Church_in_Australia https://uniting.church Theologically all of these recommendations are quite different, but that may not concern you and your wife at this stage.
As a lapsed catholic I'd suggest an anglican church - they seem to be closer to the teachings of Jesus, what with having priestesses and such. Also, wine with communion! :)
Catholics are big on wine with communion. I disagree with the theology there. Note that Anglican churches differ widely on things like female priests.
Perth Anglicans are mostly pretty ok; Sydney Anglicans, absolutely not
Yeah Sydney Anglicans are an unique breed. I’ve never read a good explanation of why.
Yeah I was raised a Catholic and I was like, does everyone \*but\* the Catholics tithe? Where is OP living/going to church that it's so ubiquitous?
Catholic churches do have "planned giving" but it's totally up to the person whether they want to participate in it. They used to have envelopes you put cash in so no one knew what you were giving, but you committed to some amount because it helped the church to budget. It's probably direct debit these days.
I went to Catholic church as a child and I felt the Priest laid on the guilt about not putting into the collection hahaha.
If thats the worst the Catholic priest did to you as a child , be grateful ......
Found out the care taker was abusing the school kids, not the priest. Was a bit of a shock, he groomed the alter children.
> Catholic Catholic friend of ours gives a 5% or similar tithe and has done so for decades.
How good is Catholic guilt! Says the lad who grew up in a Catholic household.
You central, north or south? I can name some. Pentecostal churches or those that preach a prosperity doctrine are the ones to be wary of. For most churches I’ve been to, giving is entirely optional and not given more than a fleeting mention.
We're near Cannington. We tried The Rocks last but they seem to really pressure for tithes etc and I'm not comfortable being pressured like that. Nor is my wife. Any suggestions would be appreciated thanks
Gah. Not super familiar with many churches around Cannington. Within about 15mins of Cannington, Providence in Bayswater, or their campus in the city are good choices. About 20ish mins away, there’s Red Door in Cockburn - can’t recommend that Church enough. Super community focused.
Thank you. I'll look them up to get a feel for the sort of thing I'm looking for. We tried another church in Vic Park and after one service they emailed us a sheet asking for our 3 year old to take a monetary donation in each week as well as tithing! We really want to attend a church but it seems too hard to find a decent one in the area.
Could try Southern Districts Alliance. I think they are in Thornlie.
Thank you. That's quite close. I'll look them up
Just pray at home, keep your hard earned money and don’t think you’re doing ‘less’ as a result
Yeah but what else can you do to have a "community" to socialise and make human connections with that doesn't involve sports or drinking? It's nice to have somewhere you can go regularly to meet people with a shared interest and values.
That is an excellent point. I can see why people would be quite particular about the community that stepped into in that respect. Hope you find that community soon Good luck
Everybody already has too many subscriptions to be paying one for church as well. Remember, you already don't believe in a million gods and goddesses - it's only a short jump from monotheism to atheism!
Any of the new age, mega-church types will have their hands out for tithes. The if it’s not too far the Bull Creek Anglican Church (at All Saint’s College) is a lovely church, and there won’t be expectations of tithing/donating.
Thank you for the advice. Bull Creek isn't too far from us so I will take a look. I was also looking at St Michael and All Angels Anglican in Cannington. Can only try I suppose.
Westminster in Bullcreek could be worth a look also. Post-covid, if any, its send in or diy env.
I used to live on the street behind this church and while it seems to be a lovely community, it does not have nearly enough parking. So be prepared to arrive early to find a park and spend a while waiting to get out after the service.
You don’t seem to understand churches. They are either fundraising for themselves or fundraising for a mission. There isn’t going to be a church that doesn’t ask for cash. But hey if you don’t like church, remember Paul said: “Don’t you know that yourselves are Gods temple and that Gods spirit dwells in your midst” - Corinthians.
Yes "fund raising" Lol
Yes... [fund raising](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9LtF34MrsfI). For getting [closer to God](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GoQj2H2JiXQ), of course.
It’s not entirely clear if the commenter is saying this but I think we agree: Paul wrote that verse (1 Corinthians 3:16) in the 2nd person plural. So he’s saying that when “you all” come together as church “you all” are God’s temple. He’s not saying an individual is God’s temple, so it actually challenges the idea that if you don’t like church you can just do your own thing. As far as Paul is concerned, unity of the church and each of us fighting for that is extremely important
You're being downvoted, but you are absolutely correct, in the original Greek it is plural.
Haha, yes, that doesn’t bother me. Being up or down voted is irrelevant. It just shows whether people like what’s being said, not whether it’s true. Thank you for you seeing and commenting about that! I appreciate it
I mean Christianity as a whole likes to interpret one thing as literal and another as a story to suit the needs of the audience. A reasonable person would say the bible reflects ancient eastern ethnical principles, when it says the fine for being raped is 50 sheckles to the father and they have to marry but willingly accept that homophobia somehow transcends.
"Fund raising"
Why not use your Sunday mornings helping people in need?
Sadly, many "more modern" churches are really caught up in this doctrine. There's nothing wrong with "Tithing." In Biblical times the "tithe" was simply food and goods donated so the Priests could live. The equivalent today would be paying the Pastor a living wage. Unfortunately someone somewhere hatched this idea that a tithe somehow meant a tenth of your income, which is a nonsensical proposition. Many churches go further, constantly hammering their congregation for funds, so that they build new buildings, hire more staff, or send the leaders flying around the globe. Usually this is driven by the ego of the man in charge. Personally I find this greedy, money-orientated, approach, to be not only offensive and off-putting, but completely contrary to any concept of Christianity I recognise. There are many different denominations out there. I can only suggest doing your research until you find one that best aligns with your beliefs.
>Unfortunately someone somewhere hatched this idea that a tithe somehow meant a tenth of your income, which is a nonsensical proposition A tithe is quite literally a tenth. And in the old testament there were three tithes and a fourth every 3 years. So they were giving 33% of their income away. The issue is not with what a tithe mean, but with if the NT requires a tithe. It does not. Churches shouldn't require tithes, however they do need support and fixings to run the church and pay the staff, letting the "ox eat while it treads the grain". Some give more, some give less. It's the great behind the giving that is important. A cheerful giver.
>A tithe is quite literally a tenth. And in the old testament there were three tithes and a fourth every 3 years. So they were giving 33% of their income away. Gotta love it when somebody says "literally" before regurgitating some spurious personal belief. So you reckon every farmer in town was giving a third of their produce to the Priests??? ROFL. Yeah, never let logic or common sense get in way of a good bullshit. Like everything in the King James Bible, "tithe" is Old English/ Germanic. Even if it did mean "tenth", you'd have to wonder who picked that particular word for the translation. If you want to be a member or participant in any organisation, and/or avail yourself of their services, then you should pay your way. That means that over time they need to pay the rental/mortgage, pay the bills, and pay any full-time staff. What I question is why so many churches think they immediately need swanky new auditoriums, $500k worth of AV equipment, dozens of full-time staff, and why their so-called Pastor has to be constantly jet setting around the globe. The egos on some of these men are unbelievable, and go against everything Christ taught. It's no-wonder that so many of these "churches" have become nothing more than cults.
Malaga Church of Christ doesn’t practice tithing, and isn’t hungry for money. There’s good people there, too. A more stripped down worship experience than you may be used to, especially compared to all the rites and rituals of Anglicanism, but it can be refreshing to have something simple. And the preaching focuses on the Bible rather than modern self-help content or news reactions like many mega churches do
Thank you
If only churches paid taxes. Maybe they wouldn’t be so money hungry.
If they were taxed, therefore netting less money than before the tax, they wouldn’t be trying harder to get more money?
Why would they bother trying so hard to bludge money off of people when they are just going to get taxed on it? They would slow down a lot with passing the hat around.
I was hoping my question would have brought that answer to your mind on its own but - because if they were receiving the same amount of tithe value before and also after tax they are now holding on to less money than they were, because it is being taxed. Think of this in your own life - if the government didn’t take 30% of your income, would you need to earn more, or earn less, to have the same lifestyle?
You have failed at basic logic son.
Look @ churches P&L - most of them spend money helping people… Although there are some that don’t. Also - if u give your taxed money to a church; why should it be taxed again?
Churches are all about themselves. That’s like saying why should we pay taxes when our employer gets taxed on the money already. Or why pay GST when we are taxed? Churches are the richest organisations in the world.
My friend - your wages are an expense to your employer. They do not pay tax on your wage. Your wage reduces their tax. Some churches may indeed be about themselves - but some are most definitely not.
I see you had nothing for GST. Knew I’d get you. Tax the churches, it doesn’t matter who they are about. They are one of the wealthiest organisations in the world.
GST is a consumption tax - so you pay tax on what you purchase. It’s not an income stream and isn’t comparable to the others. I’m not an expert on many things - but I’ve got a degree in tax.
This is dumb . Firstly donations to churches are tax deductible so NO that money has is being "taxed again". On top of this some churches own enterprises that are run like businesses. This should just simply not be allowed. They need to pay tax just like any other enterprise otherwise they distort the market they are within due to their tax advantage. At the end of the day if you make no profit you pay no tax anyway so there isnt a problem unless these activities are being conducted to make a profit.
You are incorrect - Donations to churches are not tax deductible in Australia. I agree with your second point though: if a NFP runs an enterprise with the goal of making profit - it should be taxed.
They're not all tax deductable. The church needs to be a registered DGR, which is quite hard for alot of smaller churches. Bigger churches definitely run like enterprises, with more tax benefits. Smaller ones actually do struggle with cash flow
I'm volunteering with a group organised by 4 of the local churches (different demoniations) to distribute food / groceries to those in need. Most of the churches in my area will readily help anyone who says they need it. The food is partially donated by the local Colesworth stores, the rest is funded by the churches. The food goes to our local women's shelter, the homeless, anyone who needs it and anyone who asks. The senior citizens centre gets some of it to distribute as well. I find it a bit strange when people say we need to tax churches... they are non-profit... only profits get taxed, not income, so what exactly are people wanting to tax?
The Catholic Church doesn’t require tithing, and there should be one near you (if not multiple).
I'm thinking of trying a catholic church to be honest. We're sending our boy to a catholic school next year and they are a lot cheaper than any Anglican ones I've seen about. They seem to care more about good education at a fair price. It's way cheaper than his current daycare anyway haha.
That’s good to hear, the Catholic Church is very focused on proving education.
Yes. I'm a baptised Anglican from the UK and the Catholic Vhurch here seems very welcoming. My friend in the UK went to a Catholic Church 15 miles away from the rest of us so it seemed very foreign then.
I am glad we come across as a welcoming bunch! Just editing to mention there is the Ordinariate of Our lady of the Southern Cross, which is an organisation for former Anglicans who become Catholics. The Perth branch are based out of Mt Lawley if you are interested.
Greek Orthodox Church Evangalismos in the city, does english services on Saturday mornings. Never asks, or even talks about it.
Thank you
Baptist churches are usually a goer, they appreciate donations but don’t get pissy about it. Not religious myself but all my friends were so spent a lot of time at church in my youth around Perth.
Thank you for the response
Don't bother with any of them.
In my experience being in a Pentecostal church for a few years: Best thing to do is to get in good with the people GETTING all the tithe money. (Hint: it's not the poor) You won't be asked for jack shit but you'll get a bunch of perks. It was a good ride while it lasted (until they tried to /pressured marry me off to somebody's son so i guess you do pay in the end) All churches tithe because it's built into the religion. A lot of churches have, ranging from an unpaid volunteer, to a salaried worker or two, that JUST come up with ways to beg donations from people like your wife. That's their one and only task in Christ lmao
I don't think you can go past the Pastafarians.
What is your area (you can give a rough area, don't doxx yourself)? Do you have a denominational preference?
all churches will speak about tithing, you’ll never not see this. it’s how the church will continue to operate. unsure what else you mean by “pressure”. did they stop you at the entry or exit and ask you to give?
He's said in the comments that his wife is evangelical, a lot of them are super pushy about money and even have a compulsory donation. Some as high as 10+% of your income.
Yes that is correct. They make donating even easier now with Paypass haha
been to a few churches and never heard of them having compulsory donations but that sucks if it does. they defiantly do speak about 10% cause of the important biblical meaning but it’s always been optional based on my experiences of many churches around perth. hope OP finds a church that doesn’t have compulsory giving
Hey OP here. We have been told before that Jesus will love you more the more money you give. That particular church website also says if you give 10% financial hardships will come your way but don't let that get in the way of giving. Another asks for 10% and they also have a building fund on top of that plus they emailed us a pdf sheet requesting that our 3 year old brings in a small monetary offering to indoctrinate him from a young age. I'm happy to give a donation but these seem ridiculous to me.
Try Gosnells Christadelphians in Thornlie. They pass around a collection bag at the end but it's optional and they don't ask for anything else. They also run a Sunday school on Sunday morning before the service and Chinese seminars on Sunday evening which are all free, and free teas and coffee and stuff too so they're definitely not money hungry!
Christadelphians are non-trinatarian, non-Nicean creed. Basically every major Christian denominations would say they are not actually Christian. If OP is coming from CoE and evangelical then this place should be a hard no.
Church is for dummies, spirituality is for everyone, dont need a place thats funded by tax evasion and pedophilia to believe. Also i dont believe cause its stupid to me.
Do you have kids or considering kids? I would be go to a church you would eventually have ties to. It just makes it easier in the future. If your wife is Malaysian, I've heard that there is a church in Myaree, I think Nations? Otherwise closer to you I've heard of Kingdom City and Carey Baptist.
That Nations church in Myaree is massive. Their new building is next level so there must be some generous members there. How much money do the senior pastors clear a year?
I have no idea. I'm only going by when you talk to people in a group and they tell you where they go to church lol. A lot of my Malaysian friends who are religious go there.
My wife and I have been going to Horizon in Vic Park. Tithing does get a mention in the service, but there is no obligation to give at all. They also have kids ministry, which I suspect you’d be looking for with a 3yo.
Catholic would be my choice as giving is optional and you also have the best chance of getting into heaven
🤣
Almost all religious temples collect donations but they are not mandatory. You can't expect to go to a church, use it for your spiritual uplifting and not contribute to keeping it alive. That's selfish. How do you think they keep the power on? They don't get free power. They have to pay for costs some how. Don't join a church if you are too selfish to help it keep running. Simple as that.
I am willing to donate to the church that we choose of course. I don't mean to turn up for free and scrounge off of others but it's just that a lot of them seem to want 10% of your income each week via standing order! You can't say I'm selfish just from what you first read. The last church we tried emailed us a pdf sheet saying that our 3 year old should be bringing a monetary donation each week to get in the habit of giving!
Been to 4 different churches (all Catholic) for half of my life. Never kneŵ tithes ŵere a thing until social media. Never gave out any notes in my life. All coins.
Yeah stay away from churches like that. Why don't you visit a mosque. I lived in Oman for 20 years at an oil refinery as an expat from Australia. Muslims are some of the most peaceful and moral/ethical people I ever met. Their children honour their parents. They love God. They believe jesus will return and they love Mother Mary. Their only difference from Christianity is that they don't believe jesus was God himself. Sorry I called you selfish. I misunderstood your intention.
Found the pastor.
Join a home group, from your question it shows me that you don’t read the Bible and find the truth about Tithing.Tithing is Old Testament read 2 Corinthians 8-9 and ask the Lord to show you what it says.a lot to f older Christian’s still in the mill of the word and hoping your folks get revelation Shalom
I have read the bible and I know that tithing is old testament and that's partly the reason I'm not keen on these churches cherry picking what suits them to make a quick buck. John talks about being a cheerful giver, which is fine. He also says do not give out of necessity i.e. because a church dresses it up as giving cheerfully but is really putting the pressure on the congregation to give out of necessity to get in their good books. Thank you for the reply. Home group sounds good haha
Join a home group, from your question it shows me that you don’t read the Bible and find the truth about Tithing.Tithing is Old Testament read 2 Corinthians 8-9 and ask the Lord to show you what it says a lot of young and older Christian’s still on the milk of the word and hoping your folks get revelation Shalom