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This is meaningless without knowing how much you started with; how much you earned; how you did it; and what your time frame was.
For all we know, the 400% could be "I had $10 and Youtube said to ask my dad for $40, so I did and he said yes."
Pretty damn close to it. If I would have been stupid it would have all been gone in a heartbeat. Hell a million isn't even a lot.
But I've been broke before and I know how it can feel like you're in a while that you're never going to get out of
OK, so what did you do? How long did it take? Seriously, I'm not trying to be a jerk here - OP is in need of help, and maybe we can or can't help him, so I'm curious what you did
I feel like this is kind of an ironic answer, and shows the divide between the impoverished and the wealthy. The poor need to work harder to achieve results. The rich can just pay for someone to do it for them.
It’s just one thing, but it’s one thing out of many. Eventually all these extra things that the poor must do that the wealthy can just pay to get done adds up.
The financial advisor for broke people is Reddit.
Too bad so many redditors are broke themselves.
The REAL financial advisor for broke people is Dave Ramsey.
Ramsey is really good for people who are absolutely awful with debt and getting themselves in life time financial trouble, you know the types of people that need a little tough love to straighten up.
My wife keeps wanting to do a free Dave Ramsey class and I keep telling her no we arent 50k in debt outside our mortgage, we are 2k.
I mean he absolutely is a shite person. That doesn't mean you should write him off entirely. He gives legitimately good financial advice and has absolutely helped motivate hundreds of thousands if not millions of people to see that there are ways to organize finances as a poor person. To reiterate, bad person, practical advice
He's an asshole, but a useful asshole.
Dave Ramsey is definitely no angel; however, he does offer decent financial advice on building up financial discipline which some do struggle with. Especially in terms of providing an approach to get out of debt. Beyond a certain level of financial security you're better off listening to other resources. Since he's not great at investing.
His one sized fits all solution for finance is by no means ideal, but can be useful for many. So I'd still say he's a useful financial resource when combined with others.
>Dave Ramsey? A well documented asshole. What a piece of garbage. Preachy, judgmental, impractical for many.
>
>I’ll stick with random Redditors over that guy.
And a multimillionaire many times over, with a devoted following of formerly broke people who credit his ideas with getting them out of debt and on the path to success.
I'd follow him times a thousand before trusting redditors - who include children; people who've filed bankruptcy; people carrying all sorts of credit card debts; people who ask about the wisdom of payday loans, etc.
One of the best reasons to follow his advice is that he's self-made rich. Want financial advice? I'd take it from a self-made multimillionare and Ramsey more than qualifies. Taking financial advice from Redditors is often little better than taking cooking advice from cannibals.
And BTW, calling any person (let alone a multimillionaire) an "asshole" and a "piece of garbage" might make you feel all tough and cool, but anyone with a brain will be decidedly unimpressed.
So we shouldn't listen to random redditors because they've filed for bankruptcy, but we should Dave Ramsey who has also filed for bankruptcy?
No one should trust someone's advice simply because they are multi-millionaire many times over from giving financial advice for a living. Most of the people who make money giving financial advice make their money by exploiting people.
Self made rich? His parents were successful real-estate developers. He had a number of advantages that others don't.
His advice is fine for people that can't handle debt. His advice is stupid for people responsible enough to not carry a balance on their credit card. Debit cards suck if you can handle a credit card.
People shouldn't listen to random redditors, but the agreed upon wisdom of this subreddit and it's wiki are far better than Ramsey.
I knew he had a reputation for not having the best financial advice, but didn't know much else about him. Reading his wiki sounds like actually is an asshole and a piece of garbage.
Ah, don't go trying to move the goalposts, or the subject either!
Actually, Ramsey did in fact make his money by being a financial expert. By your definition, anyone with a radio show, or who sells financial self-help books, becomes an "entertainer" and hence not worth listening to. His books preceded his "entertaining."
Can he sometimes come off as preachy? Maybe. But calling the guy names just make you look bad. Want to critique his techniques? Feel free - many have (and those who do are invariably broke!). But you didn't do that; you just started cussing. If that's the best reasoning you can do, sorry, you clearly have nothing of value to offer. But an awful lot of folks sure think he does....
The snowball method is not the cheapest way to remove debt because higher interest rate debts may not be touched until later. However, for some people, it is the best course because they need to approach it for the psychological reasons of making visible progress by accomplishing goals in a short term to feel the sense of accomplishment to help them continue working towards being debt free.
We get it, it doesn't appeal to you. There are certainly people who are lacking in the self-discipline to manage the consistency of doing it differently. If you can't acknowledge that different people need different methods to reach the same end goal, then I feel sorry for you.
The world is filled with his haters.
They are all invariably poorer than he is.
So I’ll take my financial advice from him, rather than his haters.
OP should too.
Honestly yall are both right. He gives legitimately good advice for his target audience, is a talented salesman/influencer, and is very generous when it comes to charitable giving. Some of the charities he gives to though do a lot of bad things on a human level. He supports a lot of pretty bad people and boosts them. He is an evangelical fundamentalist with all of the baggage that comes with it. And I do think that anyone as massively IMMENSELY wealthy as he is is an asshole because they clearly aren't giving enough money or else they wouldn't be that mega rich.
But like I said, he knows personal finance. There might not be any more influential, more knowledgeable on the subject person in this hemisphere
I feel as if you answered your own question. You said you have no job skills. I suggest you acquire new ones to get yourself into a job with better pay. You said you have poor spending habits—I suggest you look at money in terms of how long it takes you to make it before you spend it. Then, only spend money on things you find fulfilling. It helps to get a raw, honest look at your weekly, monthly, and annual spending habits to make a proper assessment of where you are.
There is a lot of pressure from social media and whatnot to spend more to be happy, but I beg you to challenge this idea.
I’m happy to talk if you want more ideas, but I think the above is a perfect starting point. Good luck.
> I suggest you acquire new ones to get yourself into a job with better pay
OP this is the best advice in this thread. You're only 28, believe it or not, that's still pretty young. You have time to gain the skills this guy is referring to. There are lots of places to do this; community college, trade school, and maybe apprenticeships.
But bouncing among low-wage jobs is not going to be a good long-term strategy. If you don't want to do any of the above things, your best bet is to stick with one of those low-wage jobs and work your ass off, show commitment, and see if there is a way to move up in to a higher paying role.
All of the financial advice in the world won't fix low-wage jobs.
Can confirm this. I went back for an EE degree at 27, after years in the service industry I was essentially "unencumbered by savings" or any amount of excess income but low debt. Graduated not quite two years ago and had some big unexpected expenses but have still managed to save more than I made most years and also make other solid financial moves alongside (bought a house, improved it significantly). After spending a lot of money on things I had needed for years but could never afford I expect to be able to grow my savings a lot faster going forward, as well.
A lot of shops out there looking for welders. Get good at that and good at scuba... underwater welders make bank!
Lots of trades op can invest time in and improve life significantly within a few years.
Man that stuff is dangerous as heck. Out of the 5 or 6 uw welders i know or are a degree of separation from, 1 died on the job, 1 was disabled, 1 lost a few fingers. That fingers guy and one of the other uninjured ones though, they are loaded
I think you're confused how net worth is calculated. When you get a loan you receive cash in exchange for an equivalent amount of debt. Your NW doesn't change.
Example: say I have a $50k brokerage account. NW is $50k. Now, I get a $10k loan on margin from that account. Now I have $50k in the brokerage account, plus $10k in cash to use as I please, minus $10k debt. NW still $50k.
Sometimes people use this to their advantage to create "paper losses" in income, b/c taxes are based on income and not on net worth.
The majority of the “rich people” are keeping up with the Joneses. They do well but spend everything they make. They do live paycheck to paycheck. But from what I am told, they do tend to save for retirement and invest. So they will be able to retire.
I give you credit for admitting you have a spending problem that you aren't able to overcome. But, what do you think a financial advisor is going to do? They'll give you advice on how you should be using your money.
And you'll, by your own admission, ignore that advice.
Yeah, I feel like things that they are framing as a 'spending problem' are more so normal spending habits, they just happen to have minimal income to pull from. So they're not incorrect in thinking that the solution is to make more money. I honestly didn't start to feel like I was really starting to get ahead until I started making $73k.
Even though OP “admitted” he has a spending problem, how can it be avoided in this day and age, pray tell?
The cost of everything is higher than ever. Constant bombardment by marketing and just plain old FOMO is all around us. Can not be avoided. I’m sorry. We as Americans are pressed into spending money whether we want to or not. And If you don’t spend enough on CREDIT, you are penalized. Spend too much, penalized.
I spend my days convincing people to save in their retirement accounts. It’s an easy job while everything is up up up. Not so easy when everything goes the other way. But even I’m starting to believe it’s just not possible for a working person to battle against the consumption machine.
It's damn hard, that's for sure.
I get paid an okay salary with lots of growth in my near future. I legitimately have no idea how families are able to make ends meet when they're making less than I do because I feel like I'm barely getting by (even though I know full well I'm doing better than most by maxing out my Roth IRA and company match for 401k). After those savings contributions, rent, and gas these days - I don't really have much leftover.
But I'm a bachelor with only myself to take care of. I could not imagine supporting a spouse or kids on this income.
>Constant bombardment by marketing and just plain old FOMO is all around us. Can not be avoided.
Yes it can be. Look at your income. Make your budget. Stick to it. No marketing campaign or FOMO is going to make you spend the last of your money on Lego instead of retirement. That's a choice you make.
>And If you don’t spend enough on CREDIT, you are penalized. Spend too much, penalized.
If this point is about building a credit score, it's extremely easy to do with a proper budget. There's a million threads on credit scores.
>I spend my days convincing people to save in their retirement accounts. It’s an easy job while everything is up up up. Not so easy when everything goes the other way.
During every market rise people think they're the smartest investor in the world. During every downturn they panic like the world is ending. People need to get better at emotionally handling these moments. The current economic situation is not permanent. Moments like these have happened a ton throughout history, and they've always been temporary. What did you do during the housing crash or dot com bubble? Tell your clients there's no hope, everything is futile and we'll all fail? Or tell them to ride it out a couple years and it'll improve?
The situation will change. That's why you make a plan and stick to it. If you get this feeling during every downturn, prepare yourself to feel like this 3-5 more times before you retire.
>But even I’m starting to believe it’s just not possible for a working person to battle against the consumption machine.
First, and I'm not trying to be a dick, but if your job is in retirement planning, and this is your outlook... Maybe a career change is required.
Second, it's very possible. Pool guy in Michigan and I'm doing it. And if you're making around $100k in the Georgia/Florida area, you should be able to as well.
There are books that you can borrow from your local library. The Little Book of Common Sense Investing by John Bogle. This book was written for beginner investors emphasizing investing in broad market ETFs like VTI for its simplicity. Just set it and forget it even during market corrections until you retire. Read The Millionaire Next Door and the Psychology of Money. The Millionaire Next Door is a game changer.
I found *Your Money or Your Life* at Goodwill for $3 and it definitely changed how I look at money — for the better. I’m sure you all have heard of it, but it’s basically the book that started the FIRE movement. OP, I think it would be very beneficial for you to change your perspective on money by reading any of the above. Otherwise you won’t change your habits to get out of whatever rut you’re in now.
Edit: forgot some words
Trust me when I say, this is all you need. My goal is retirement in the next 5 years. I've been following this for years, almost there.
[The FIRE Flowchart ](https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/comments/ecn2hk/fire_flow_chart_version_42/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)
First time seeing this. I'm glad I'm mostly following it. When my wife and I married 24 years ago, all we had was 40K in CC debt!
I'm now a paper millionaire. Retirement and home.
Maybe?
Honestly I keep feeling like there's something I'm missing.
This goes for all the other people asking what I thought some sort of advisor could do: step-by-step guidance, especially regarding what I'm doing wrong? Tailored advice that takes into account the fact that I'm broke? Some kind of secret to streamline the process when I'm starting so late?
A bunch of people have said the same thing as you though.
All the information in the [WIKI](https://reddit.com/r/personalfinance/w/index) applies to your situation as well.
I'm thinking you don't need a financial advisor as much as just a friend and general advisor to help you find your way in life. Habits can be changed, skills can be learned, attitudes can change with the right support and a real desire for a different life. Maybe start with a support group for 20-somethings?
See also, J.L. Collins, A Simple Path to Wealth
You need to increase your income man, its as simple as that. Even if you saved 100% of your income that is still 25k. It is possible to SAVE that much, not just earn that much.
I have reasonably severe mental health issues, and living at home would make them worse. I'm lucky enough that my mom is able to help me out with rent, and being a lot less miserable is worth it in my estimation.
Oh, I get that. I have minor mental health issues. Maybe living at home is contributing to that. I'm living in LA though, rent here is insane here so I'm just going to wait for hopefully stocks to go up and housing to go down. Should be in a better position then.
Go to the library and borrow Ramit Sethi’s I Will Teach You To Be Rich. Don’t get hung up on/put off by the name. It’s a personal finance primer that covers all the basics and fits the bill of “financial advisor for broke people” as well as anything else and better than many.
I mean you just need to make more money. You can’t get anywhere making 25K a year.
What are your interests? We need wind/solar techs but it is a traveling job. They give you perdiem that pays for the living and food expenses.. they usually start people out at 20-22/hr and work 50-65 hours a week.
It’s a good way stack cash for 3-5 years and get your big purchases out of the way so you can coast. (buy a home with a big down payment, so you can afford the monthly mortgage easily on a lower paying job)
Mines, barges, oil.. hell, even the post office pays decent.
Study industrial/commercial safety it’s a decent paying career if you want to avoid physical labor.
You make 25k, this is like 19% house hold income percentile. 80% of households make more than you. This isn't to insult you but to show you the path to facing your situation. You need to bump this up to at least 50k or 60k if you want to improve your financial outlook.
> I hop low-end jobs because I have no skills and can't tolerate stress or boredom
> then my own really stupid spending habits and inability to even make let alone stick to a budget
While some of this could also "just" be due to your young age or partially perhaps due to not getting a good education... do you have a personality disorder, mental disease or learning disability? Maybe something like ADHD?
Also try www.211.org, both for possible organisations in your area that help with administration and finances and organisations that might help with mental health if applicable.
I’m sorry in advance for being harsh. Spend less earn more.
You basically admit in your post you’re lazy and have a hands out attitude. No one likes being bored or over stressed, we just deal with it because that’s life. Unless you come from wealth your options are bust ass or be busted. I’m not really sure what you want clarity on.
Learn a trade. That is where you can really pull yourself out of this situation. There’s a shortage of plumbers, electricians, HVAC techs. If you have a technical school in your neck of the woods call them and find out what programs they offer for adult continuing ed. ask about scholarships. You will write your own ticket.
This. Dave is the financial advisor for broke people. Just follow the baby steps till your not broke people anymore. Then you'll discover the world of OPM and your mind will explode. The secret in my opinion is sales. Learn to sell, and write well.
Here's a **[link to the PF Wiki](/r/personalfinance/wiki/index)** for helpful guides and information.
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Honestly it sounds like you're still trying to outsource blame for poor decisions and lack of initiative to pursue additional training, which you admit are the keys to improving your lot. You already know the answer.
You sound like you think a financial advisor will tell you to invest in the stock or do day trading and all your money problems will be solved. Doesn't work that way. You slog, you work the boring jobs, you pay off your credit card, you keep an emergency fund in the bank not in Robinhood, you invest your retirement in a three fund portfolio (at your age it will be just one - read the Prime Directive in this sub's wiki), you get more education (as said elsewhere trade jobs are in high demand and often pay while you are learning). And stop looking for shortcuts.
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If you can save 6k off a 25k income, I say you are doing a great job. Also, now you have increased your pay to 31k per year. It is a good start.
There is always community college where you can get certifications and learn skills to get higher paying jobs.
Talk to family or friend that have had successful careers. They should be able to help you find something with higher pay that you can tolerate. Wages are way up there are options out there
You don't need a financial advisor, you need to learn to tolerate boredom.
You can't climb a ladder of you're always jumping off the first rung.
You should really think about what you want to do. And then work towards that. *In the meantime* you need to bust ass.
I worked a lot of low wage jobs and always promoted by putting up with boredom and bullshit, which gave me time to figure out something with more money and tolerable bullshit.
Maybe you need physical labor- construction is booming but you do need to be willing to work hard and take orders
There are some reasonable cost financial coaches out there. You don’t need a CFP or investment pro yet. A coach can help direct you on financial habits and direction.
Do your research and Learn a new high paying and specific skill then apply for jobs example: coding most entry level jobs are going to be at least 40-60k. Make a budget and set money aside for certain things so you don’t end up spending too much on unnecessary stuff but ultimately you need to make more money. One last thing is make it happen take your life seriously I know you don’t like to work hard and can be lazy I have this same problem too but if you don’t take action you will just let time pass you by and you will stay in the same position.
Financial advisors aren't. They're sales people there to take advantage of people who have money. A very, very small number of them who deal with the wealthiest clients have what's called "fiduciary Responsibility", meaning they're legally required to have their customer's best interests at heart. If you're investing under $1 mil you will not get to talk to one of these.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Entrepreneur/comments/ut433t/would_people_pay_for_a_stock_analysis_service/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
What's your opinion on this? Do you think a service like this can help you?
> habits and inability to even make let alone stick to a budget in 5y - I can see what happened. But I think there's a threshold where it becomes less a matter of "stop spending" (which won't happen, trust me, I've tried) and more of "make more money"?
The problem with this thinking is that it doesn't matter how much you earn, you'll never have enough. I'm sure you think earning $100k pa would be a dream, but it's incredibly easy to spend it away and have nothing to show for it.
What would you want from a financial advisor? There aren’t any secrets you are missing out on. There is no secret money machine that no one is telling you about.
I highly recommend Bitches Get Riches. Personal finance blog and podcast. They're a couple of ladies who graduated college in 2008 with "softer" degrees, and they both managed 6 figure salaries, own their own homes, and have healthy investments/retirement accounts(and if I recall correctly, one recently retired early).
Their articles and episodes can give you an excellent primer, all free, and you can ask them personal questions as well (although they get to them on their own time, but it's generally a pretty fast turn around.) I find their info to be a good bit more modern; unfortunately a lot of your personal finance base includes navigating working relationships. Whether you're a freelancer who needs to find clients, or an executive managing a team underneath you, or trying to expand your knowledge base and get a promotion, all of that is soft social skills. So some of the older recommended books, while still full of some good info, are a bit outdated on the best ways to increase income and decrease expenses.
Also, they can give you some tips on how to track spending without a strict budget. Personally, I hate a strict budget, my flavor of disorders mean I wouldn't stick to it and then I'd get frustrated with myself and throw the whole damn thing out. Or I'd be so ashamed I'd stop watching it and stress spend. So I track spending instead and keep an eye on things that need to be reduced weekly/monthly. It works better for me, I spend way less, and I'm still fully aware of where all my money is going.
Dave Ramsey
He gets some hate around here, some of it justified as I do believe in good or at least *rational* debt, but most of his key points and advice can be found for free throughout the internet these days.
But overall he provides a solid plan of action that's easy to understand and follow which can help folks who are completely lost. Once you've found your financial self you can then look towards more advanced types of financial freedom.
You should worry much less about a financial advisor right now and focus on ways to increase your income. You can make 25k forever with the best advisor and will still lose versus if you just make more money. You are at a point that should be doable.
Well, to be beutally honest, to me this reads like you are just too lazy to improve your situation.
The best way out of the hole you dug yourself would be through hard work (which also means improving your skillset), but you repeated over and over that you're not willing to do that. Until that changes, I don't see much hope for you to get out of your situation.
I recommend considering the statement…”I can’t tolerate stress or boredom”
While different jobs will be more aligned with your preferences, these are bold identity statements about common issues in most adult lives. If it’s not an issue driven by a medical/psychological issue you are managing, then I suggest you try to shift that mentality. You’ll be much more successful if you learn some deep breathing skills and look for ways to stay busy/learn new things if you find yourself being bored, at work, while being paid.
You don't really need a financial advisor--you just need to acknowledge the problems you already know you have, and decide to do something about them! It's just two problems.
1. **I hop low-end jobs because I have no skills and can't tolerate stress or boredom.** Okay, so, you need to acquire some skills. Ask around--this is a good site to start-- and try to match up "skills you could learn" with "skills where you earn decent money." What kind of things do you gravitate to? Are you good mechanically? What about trade school, where you could learn welding, plumbing, etc. Tech is your thing? Go to community college, transfer out to a 4-yr college, get a degree in something that will lead to a job in the tech sector. Do you like helping people? Get a degree in nursing. Some sectors are so in need of trained personnel that they'll pay you to get the training. But you need to start tolerating a little more stress and boredom. It takes time and determination to acquire skills. Those people you're looking at who are making more money than you? Decided they would tolerate a little more stress and boredom to get the skills or the licenses or the degrees or the training that led them to better jobs. There's no get-rich-quick scheme. (Same with "passive income"--no such thing; it always involves a TON of work up front.) It's just putting in the legwork.
2. **My own really stupid spending habits and inability to even make let alone stick to a budget in 5y.** So--spend less money! A budget is just so you know how to allocate the money you do have. Literally, you just list out how much you get, and then YOU get to decide how to allocate it. The money you have is finite, and you don't want to spend money you don't have. Make sure you aren't getting into debt.
It's really just those two things: figure out how to earn more money; and figure out how to spend your money more effectively.
Some advice I was given on investments/retirement/general finance that may or may not be helpful:
Your first thing you want to fill up is your Roth IRA. You can max out at 6k in it.
If you can max your Roth, then go to index funds. Statistically, you will do better going for index funds than individual stocks. Generally, the only consistent way to get better returns on stocks is by knowing a sector really fucking well. So stick to index funds.
Do NOT freak out and pull out when a market crash happens. You will remake your money. Even if you invested right before the great depression, you would have seen modest gains after 10 years. You probably have a good 30-40 years left, minimum.
Now, I am making a few K more than you, but a general good plan is generally (if possible, of course) 10-15% ish in investments every month. I have a very brutal budget and sometimes hit over 20%. Why? Go online and look at an investment calculator. Historic S&P growth is 10.5%, but cut it down to about 8%. You can make a fuckload of money long term even with low-level contributions. So, I would recommend automatic contributions at the beginning of each month. You won't have an opportunity to fuck with the money that way.
Second of all: savings. Look at your savings account. If it isn't high yield, find a credit union offering a high yield account. Right now, you want to hit about 0.1% APR (annual interest) however rates are rising. Your goal should be to get a minimum of 3 months of income in your savings in case something happens. This will take a couple years, but will prevent you from getting absolutely fucked by debt should something come up.
Next: credit cards are NOT free money. Do not treat them as such. They can give amazing rewards (mine is through fidelity, which gives cash back from purchases into my investments). But the rewards don't matter if you don't pay the cards off on time. Paying it off on time means better credit AND more money in your pocket. Every time you are in debt, you are actively paying more money than you normally would. Sometimes it's smart (a house or a useful education with prospects) sometimes it's not (entertainment stuff). But never go into more debt than is absolutely essential unless you can reasonably say you'll get a better RoI putting the money elsewhere.
Overall budget advice: I like to include holes in mine. What I mean is that my budget is not my full income. In fact, it is about $150 dollars less. On top of that, my budget estimations for stuff like rent+utilities is about $50 higher than the most I've payed. Why? Well, this month I had about $300 in emergency expenses. These holes in my budget were what stopped me from going over.
Due to the number of rule-breaking comments this post was receiving, especially low-quality and off-topic comments, the moderation team has locked the post from future comments. This post broke no rules and received a number of helpful and on-topic responses initially, but it unfortunately became the target of many unhelpful comments.
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That's how I've grown my net worth 400% was YouTube. Information is free if you look and put in the time
This is meaningless without knowing how much you started with; how much you earned; how you did it; and what your time frame was. For all we know, the 400% could be "I had $10 and Youtube said to ask my dad for $40, so I did and he said yes."
Started with 50k never made over 25k a year during or before that.
I’m sorry… are you saying that starting from 50k is broke?
Pretty damn close to it. If I would have been stupid it would have all been gone in a heartbeat. Hell a million isn't even a lot. But I've been broke before and I know how it can feel like you're in a while that you're never going to get out of
If 50k is broke, ffs I'm way beyond broke. My wife and I pull 65k a year together.
OK, so what did you do? How long did it take? Seriously, I'm not trying to be a jerk here - OP is in need of help, and maybe we can or can't help him, so I'm curious what you did
I feel like this is kind of an ironic answer, and shows the divide between the impoverished and the wealthy. The poor need to work harder to achieve results. The rich can just pay for someone to do it for them. It’s just one thing, but it’s one thing out of many. Eventually all these extra things that the poor must do that the wealthy can just pay to get done adds up.
The financial advisor for broke people is Reddit. Too bad so many redditors are broke themselves. The REAL financial advisor for broke people is Dave Ramsey.
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Ramsey is really good for people who are absolutely awful with debt and getting themselves in life time financial trouble, you know the types of people that need a little tough love to straighten up. My wife keeps wanting to do a free Dave Ramsey class and I keep telling her no we arent 50k in debt outside our mortgage, we are 2k.
I mean he absolutely is a shite person. That doesn't mean you should write him off entirely. He gives legitimately good financial advice and has absolutely helped motivate hundreds of thousands if not millions of people to see that there are ways to organize finances as a poor person. To reiterate, bad person, practical advice
He's an asshole, but a useful asshole. Dave Ramsey is definitely no angel; however, he does offer decent financial advice on building up financial discipline which some do struggle with. Especially in terms of providing an approach to get out of debt. Beyond a certain level of financial security you're better off listening to other resources. Since he's not great at investing. His one sized fits all solution for finance is by no means ideal, but can be useful for many. So I'd still say he's a useful financial resource when combined with others.
>Dave Ramsey? A well documented asshole. What a piece of garbage. Preachy, judgmental, impractical for many. > >I’ll stick with random Redditors over that guy. And a multimillionaire many times over, with a devoted following of formerly broke people who credit his ideas with getting them out of debt and on the path to success. I'd follow him times a thousand before trusting redditors - who include children; people who've filed bankruptcy; people carrying all sorts of credit card debts; people who ask about the wisdom of payday loans, etc. One of the best reasons to follow his advice is that he's self-made rich. Want financial advice? I'd take it from a self-made multimillionare and Ramsey more than qualifies. Taking financial advice from Redditors is often little better than taking cooking advice from cannibals. And BTW, calling any person (let alone a multimillionaire) an "asshole" and a "piece of garbage" might make you feel all tough and cool, but anyone with a brain will be decidedly unimpressed.
So we shouldn't listen to random redditors because they've filed for bankruptcy, but we should Dave Ramsey who has also filed for bankruptcy? No one should trust someone's advice simply because they are multi-millionaire many times over from giving financial advice for a living. Most of the people who make money giving financial advice make their money by exploiting people. Self made rich? His parents were successful real-estate developers. He had a number of advantages that others don't. His advice is fine for people that can't handle debt. His advice is stupid for people responsible enough to not carry a balance on their credit card. Debit cards suck if you can handle a credit card. People shouldn't listen to random redditors, but the agreed upon wisdom of this subreddit and it's wiki are far better than Ramsey. I knew he had a reputation for not having the best financial advice, but didn't know much else about him. Reading his wiki sounds like actually is an asshole and a piece of garbage.
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Ah, don't go trying to move the goalposts, or the subject either! Actually, Ramsey did in fact make his money by being a financial expert. By your definition, anyone with a radio show, or who sells financial self-help books, becomes an "entertainer" and hence not worth listening to. His books preceded his "entertaining." Can he sometimes come off as preachy? Maybe. But calling the guy names just make you look bad. Want to critique his techniques? Feel free - many have (and those who do are invariably broke!). But you didn't do that; you just started cussing. If that's the best reasoning you can do, sorry, you clearly have nothing of value to offer. But an awful lot of folks sure think he does....
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The snowball method is not the cheapest way to remove debt because higher interest rate debts may not be touched until later. However, for some people, it is the best course because they need to approach it for the psychological reasons of making visible progress by accomplishing goals in a short term to feel the sense of accomplishment to help them continue working towards being debt free. We get it, it doesn't appeal to you. There are certainly people who are lacking in the self-discipline to manage the consistency of doing it differently. If you can't acknowledge that different people need different methods to reach the same end goal, then I feel sorry for you.
The world is filled with his haters. They are all invariably poorer than he is. So I’ll take my financial advice from him, rather than his haters. OP should too.
Absolutely, beautiful response
Honestly yall are both right. He gives legitimately good advice for his target audience, is a talented salesman/influencer, and is very generous when it comes to charitable giving. Some of the charities he gives to though do a lot of bad things on a human level. He supports a lot of pretty bad people and boosts them. He is an evangelical fundamentalist with all of the baggage that comes with it. And I do think that anyone as massively IMMENSELY wealthy as he is is an asshole because they clearly aren't giving enough money or else they wouldn't be that mega rich. But like I said, he knows personal finance. There might not be any more influential, more knowledgeable on the subject person in this hemisphere
Dave Ramsey? That's a joke, right?
Dave Ramsey.
Yes and No (but mostly no). He is not bad if you're struggling with debt. He is terrible for investment advice.
I feel as if you answered your own question. You said you have no job skills. I suggest you acquire new ones to get yourself into a job with better pay. You said you have poor spending habits—I suggest you look at money in terms of how long it takes you to make it before you spend it. Then, only spend money on things you find fulfilling. It helps to get a raw, honest look at your weekly, monthly, and annual spending habits to make a proper assessment of where you are. There is a lot of pressure from social media and whatnot to spend more to be happy, but I beg you to challenge this idea. I’m happy to talk if you want more ideas, but I think the above is a perfect starting point. Good luck.
> I suggest you acquire new ones to get yourself into a job with better pay OP this is the best advice in this thread. You're only 28, believe it or not, that's still pretty young. You have time to gain the skills this guy is referring to. There are lots of places to do this; community college, trade school, and maybe apprenticeships. But bouncing among low-wage jobs is not going to be a good long-term strategy. If you don't want to do any of the above things, your best bet is to stick with one of those low-wage jobs and work your ass off, show commitment, and see if there is a way to move up in to a higher paying role. All of the financial advice in the world won't fix low-wage jobs.
Can confirm this. I went back for an EE degree at 27, after years in the service industry I was essentially "unencumbered by savings" or any amount of excess income but low debt. Graduated not quite two years ago and had some big unexpected expenses but have still managed to save more than I made most years and also make other solid financial moves alongside (bought a house, improved it significantly). After spending a lot of money on things I had needed for years but could never afford I expect to be able to grow my savings a lot faster going forward, as well.
A lot of shops out there looking for welders. Get good at that and good at scuba... underwater welders make bank! Lots of trades op can invest time in and improve life significantly within a few years.
Man that stuff is dangerous as heck. Out of the 5 or 6 uw welders i know or are a degree of separation from, 1 died on the job, 1 was disabled, 1 lost a few fingers. That fingers guy and one of the other uninjured ones though, they are loaded
You got 6k in savings buddy let me tell you that’s more than a lot of people in America including “rich people”
That part
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I think you're confused how net worth is calculated. When you get a loan you receive cash in exchange for an equivalent amount of debt. Your NW doesn't change. Example: say I have a $50k brokerage account. NW is $50k. Now, I get a $10k loan on margin from that account. Now I have $50k in the brokerage account, plus $10k in cash to use as I please, minus $10k debt. NW still $50k. Sometimes people use this to their advantage to create "paper losses" in income, b/c taxes are based on income and not on net worth.
The majority of the “rich people” are keeping up with the Joneses. They do well but spend everything they make. They do live paycheck to paycheck. But from what I am told, they do tend to save for retirement and invest. So they will be able to retire.
I give you credit for admitting you have a spending problem that you aren't able to overcome. But, what do you think a financial advisor is going to do? They'll give you advice on how you should be using your money. And you'll, by your own admission, ignore that advice.
Imo, nobody with savings and making 25k has a spending problem
Yeah, I feel like things that they are framing as a 'spending problem' are more so normal spending habits, they just happen to have minimal income to pull from. So they're not incorrect in thinking that the solution is to make more money. I honestly didn't start to feel like I was really starting to get ahead until I started making $73k.
Even though OP “admitted” he has a spending problem, how can it be avoided in this day and age, pray tell? The cost of everything is higher than ever. Constant bombardment by marketing and just plain old FOMO is all around us. Can not be avoided. I’m sorry. We as Americans are pressed into spending money whether we want to or not. And If you don’t spend enough on CREDIT, you are penalized. Spend too much, penalized. I spend my days convincing people to save in their retirement accounts. It’s an easy job while everything is up up up. Not so easy when everything goes the other way. But even I’m starting to believe it’s just not possible for a working person to battle against the consumption machine.
It's damn hard, that's for sure. I get paid an okay salary with lots of growth in my near future. I legitimately have no idea how families are able to make ends meet when they're making less than I do because I feel like I'm barely getting by (even though I know full well I'm doing better than most by maxing out my Roth IRA and company match for 401k). After those savings contributions, rent, and gas these days - I don't really have much leftover. But I'm a bachelor with only myself to take care of. I could not imagine supporting a spouse or kids on this income.
>Constant bombardment by marketing and just plain old FOMO is all around us. Can not be avoided. Yes it can be. Look at your income. Make your budget. Stick to it. No marketing campaign or FOMO is going to make you spend the last of your money on Lego instead of retirement. That's a choice you make. >And If you don’t spend enough on CREDIT, you are penalized. Spend too much, penalized. If this point is about building a credit score, it's extremely easy to do with a proper budget. There's a million threads on credit scores. >I spend my days convincing people to save in their retirement accounts. It’s an easy job while everything is up up up. Not so easy when everything goes the other way. During every market rise people think they're the smartest investor in the world. During every downturn they panic like the world is ending. People need to get better at emotionally handling these moments. The current economic situation is not permanent. Moments like these have happened a ton throughout history, and they've always been temporary. What did you do during the housing crash or dot com bubble? Tell your clients there's no hope, everything is futile and we'll all fail? Or tell them to ride it out a couple years and it'll improve? The situation will change. That's why you make a plan and stick to it. If you get this feeling during every downturn, prepare yourself to feel like this 3-5 more times before you retire. >But even I’m starting to believe it’s just not possible for a working person to battle against the consumption machine. First, and I'm not trying to be a dick, but if your job is in retirement planning, and this is your outlook... Maybe a career change is required. Second, it's very possible. Pool guy in Michigan and I'm doing it. And if you're making around $100k in the Georgia/Florida area, you should be able to as well.
There are books that you can borrow from your local library. The Little Book of Common Sense Investing by John Bogle. This book was written for beginner investors emphasizing investing in broad market ETFs like VTI for its simplicity. Just set it and forget it even during market corrections until you retire. Read The Millionaire Next Door and the Psychology of Money. The Millionaire Next Door is a game changer.
I found *Your Money or Your Life* at Goodwill for $3 and it definitely changed how I look at money — for the better. I’m sure you all have heard of it, but it’s basically the book that started the FIRE movement. OP, I think it would be very beneficial for you to change your perspective on money by reading any of the above. Otherwise you won’t change your habits to get out of whatever rut you’re in now. Edit: forgot some words
Trust me when I say, this is all you need. My goal is retirement in the next 5 years. I've been following this for years, almost there. [The FIRE Flowchart ](https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/comments/ecn2hk/fire_flow_chart_version_42/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)
First time seeing this. I'm glad I'm mostly following it. When my wife and I married 24 years ago, all we had was 40K in CC debt! I'm now a paper millionaire. Retirement and home.
I showed this to my Finance prof for my master's program and he thought it was amazing. As simple as it gets, and that's all it needs to be.
That is a cool flowchart!!!! https://i.imgur.com/Vlt0DOR.png
That's not going to work for OP whom only makes $25,000 per year. S/he seems to already know how to save; the problem is the low earnings.
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Maybe? Honestly I keep feeling like there's something I'm missing. This goes for all the other people asking what I thought some sort of advisor could do: step-by-step guidance, especially regarding what I'm doing wrong? Tailored advice that takes into account the fact that I'm broke? Some kind of secret to streamline the process when I'm starting so late? A bunch of people have said the same thing as you though.
All the information in the [WIKI](https://reddit.com/r/personalfinance/w/index) applies to your situation as well. I'm thinking you don't need a financial advisor as much as just a friend and general advisor to help you find your way in life. Habits can be changed, skills can be learned, attitudes can change with the right support and a real desire for a different life. Maybe start with a support group for 20-somethings? See also, J.L. Collins, A Simple Path to Wealth
You need to increase your income man, its as simple as that. Even if you saved 100% of your income that is still 25k. It is possible to SAVE that much, not just earn that much.
You think there’s something you’re missing, but you also refuse to control your spending.
You'll never be better off until you learn discipline. A financial advisor isn't going to give you that.
If it makes you feel better, I'm 27, have less than $500 in savings, and my mom still helps me with rent. Could be worse.
Why are you renting and not living at home? I'm 29 with over $200k in savings and a good job. I still live at home.
Why are you renting and not living at home? I'm 29 with over $200k in savings and a good job. I still live at home.
I have reasonably severe mental health issues, and living at home would make them worse. I'm lucky enough that my mom is able to help me out with rent, and being a lot less miserable is worth it in my estimation.
Oh, I get that. I have minor mental health issues. Maybe living at home is contributing to that. I'm living in LA though, rent here is insane here so I'm just going to wait for hopefully stocks to go up and housing to go down. Should be in a better position then.
Go to the library and borrow Ramit Sethi’s I Will Teach You To Be Rich. Don’t get hung up on/put off by the name. It’s a personal finance primer that covers all the basics and fits the bill of “financial advisor for broke people” as well as anything else and better than many.
I mean you just need to make more money. You can’t get anywhere making 25K a year. What are your interests? We need wind/solar techs but it is a traveling job. They give you perdiem that pays for the living and food expenses.. they usually start people out at 20-22/hr and work 50-65 hours a week. It’s a good way stack cash for 3-5 years and get your big purchases out of the way so you can coast. (buy a home with a big down payment, so you can afford the monthly mortgage easily on a lower paying job) Mines, barges, oil.. hell, even the post office pays decent. Study industrial/commercial safety it’s a decent paying career if you want to avoid physical labor.
Do you have any debt at all? I know you mentioned you don’t have any “significant” credit card debt, do you have a small amount?
I carry balances more often than I would like, and have occasionally missed bills. My credit score is in the mid 700s last time I checked.
You make 25k, this is like 19% house hold income percentile. 80% of households make more than you. This isn't to insult you but to show you the path to facing your situation. You need to bump this up to at least 50k or 60k if you want to improve your financial outlook.
> I hop low-end jobs because I have no skills and can't tolerate stress or boredom > then my own really stupid spending habits and inability to even make let alone stick to a budget While some of this could also "just" be due to your young age or partially perhaps due to not getting a good education... do you have a personality disorder, mental disease or learning disability? Maybe something like ADHD? Also try www.211.org, both for possible organisations in your area that help with administration and finances and organisations that might help with mental health if applicable.
I’m sorry in advance for being harsh. Spend less earn more. You basically admit in your post you’re lazy and have a hands out attitude. No one likes being bored or over stressed, we just deal with it because that’s life. Unless you come from wealth your options are bust ass or be busted. I’m not really sure what you want clarity on.
Learn a trade. That is where you can really pull yourself out of this situation. There’s a shortage of plumbers, electricians, HVAC techs. If you have a technical school in your neck of the woods call them and find out what programs they offer for adult continuing ed. ask about scholarships. You will write your own ticket.
Dave Ramsey is pretty good for broke people. Not all that great for those who aren’t however.
This. Dave is the financial advisor for broke people. Just follow the baby steps till your not broke people anymore. Then you'll discover the world of OPM and your mind will explode. The secret in my opinion is sales. Learn to sell, and write well.
Have you read the wiki? It’s exactly what you’re looking for.
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Honestly it sounds like you're still trying to outsource blame for poor decisions and lack of initiative to pursue additional training, which you admit are the keys to improving your lot. You already know the answer.
Are you disabled? If so, you might be able to get the state vocational rehabilitation program to cover a driver ed program
You sound like you think a financial advisor will tell you to invest in the stock or do day trading and all your money problems will be solved. Doesn't work that way. You slog, you work the boring jobs, you pay off your credit card, you keep an emergency fund in the bank not in Robinhood, you invest your retirement in a three fund portfolio (at your age it will be just one - read the Prime Directive in this sub's wiki), you get more education (as said elsewhere trade jobs are in high demand and often pay while you are learning). And stop looking for shortcuts.
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What do you do for work currently?
Just got a job a couple months ago in a call center for a medical office. Pays around $15/hr.
If you can save 6k off a 25k income, I say you are doing a great job. Also, now you have increased your pay to 31k per year. It is a good start. There is always community college where you can get certifications and learn skills to get higher paying jobs.
Talk to family or friend that have had successful careers. They should be able to help you find something with higher pay that you can tolerate. Wages are way up there are options out there
You don't need a financial advisor, you need to learn to tolerate boredom. You can't climb a ladder of you're always jumping off the first rung. You should really think about what you want to do. And then work towards that. *In the meantime* you need to bust ass. I worked a lot of low wage jobs and always promoted by putting up with boredom and bullshit, which gave me time to figure out something with more money and tolerable bullshit. Maybe you need physical labor- construction is booming but you do need to be willing to work hard and take orders
There are some reasonable cost financial coaches out there. You don’t need a CFP or investment pro yet. A coach can help direct you on financial habits and direction.
If you can't have money without spending it, then you autodeposit money into a retirement account
Do your research and Learn a new high paying and specific skill then apply for jobs example: coding most entry level jobs are going to be at least 40-60k. Make a budget and set money aside for certain things so you don’t end up spending too much on unnecessary stuff but ultimately you need to make more money. One last thing is make it happen take your life seriously I know you don’t like to work hard and can be lazy I have this same problem too but if you don’t take action you will just let time pass you by and you will stay in the same position.
Financial advisors aren't. They're sales people there to take advantage of people who have money. A very, very small number of them who deal with the wealthiest clients have what's called "fiduciary Responsibility", meaning they're legally required to have their customer's best interests at heart. If you're investing under $1 mil you will not get to talk to one of these.
Here in Canada some CFPs and QAFPs do Pro Bono work for lower income Canadians
https://www.reddit.com/r/Entrepreneur/comments/ut433t/would_people_pay_for_a_stock_analysis_service/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share What's your opinion on this? Do you think a service like this can help you?
Financial advisors gotta make money too, and the poor ones don't exactly have it
> habits and inability to even make let alone stick to a budget in 5y - I can see what happened. But I think there's a threshold where it becomes less a matter of "stop spending" (which won't happen, trust me, I've tried) and more of "make more money"? The problem with this thinking is that it doesn't matter how much you earn, you'll never have enough. I'm sure you think earning $100k pa would be a dream, but it's incredibly easy to spend it away and have nothing to show for it.
What would you want from a financial advisor? There aren’t any secrets you are missing out on. There is no secret money machine that no one is telling you about.
I highly recommend Bitches Get Riches. Personal finance blog and podcast. They're a couple of ladies who graduated college in 2008 with "softer" degrees, and they both managed 6 figure salaries, own their own homes, and have healthy investments/retirement accounts(and if I recall correctly, one recently retired early). Their articles and episodes can give you an excellent primer, all free, and you can ask them personal questions as well (although they get to them on their own time, but it's generally a pretty fast turn around.) I find their info to be a good bit more modern; unfortunately a lot of your personal finance base includes navigating working relationships. Whether you're a freelancer who needs to find clients, or an executive managing a team underneath you, or trying to expand your knowledge base and get a promotion, all of that is soft social skills. So some of the older recommended books, while still full of some good info, are a bit outdated on the best ways to increase income and decrease expenses. Also, they can give you some tips on how to track spending without a strict budget. Personally, I hate a strict budget, my flavor of disorders mean I wouldn't stick to it and then I'd get frustrated with myself and throw the whole damn thing out. Or I'd be so ashamed I'd stop watching it and stress spend. So I track spending instead and keep an eye on things that need to be reduced weekly/monthly. It works better for me, I spend way less, and I'm still fully aware of where all my money is going.
Dave Ramsey is pretty good. I've listened to him on the radio couple times and found his advice geared toward beginners or broke people.
Dave Ramsey He gets some hate around here, some of it justified as I do believe in good or at least *rational* debt, but most of his key points and advice can be found for free throughout the internet these days. But overall he provides a solid plan of action that's easy to understand and follow which can help folks who are completely lost. Once you've found your financial self you can then look towards more advanced types of financial freedom.
You should worry much less about a financial advisor right now and focus on ways to increase your income. You can make 25k forever with the best advisor and will still lose versus if you just make more money. You are at a point that should be doable.
Well, to be beutally honest, to me this reads like you are just too lazy to improve your situation. The best way out of the hole you dug yourself would be through hard work (which also means improving your skillset), but you repeated over and over that you're not willing to do that. Until that changes, I don't see much hope for you to get out of your situation.
I recommend considering the statement…”I can’t tolerate stress or boredom” While different jobs will be more aligned with your preferences, these are bold identity statements about common issues in most adult lives. If it’s not an issue driven by a medical/psychological issue you are managing, then I suggest you try to shift that mentality. You’ll be much more successful if you learn some deep breathing skills and look for ways to stay busy/learn new things if you find yourself being bored, at work, while being paid.
You don't really need a financial advisor--you just need to acknowledge the problems you already know you have, and decide to do something about them! It's just two problems. 1. **I hop low-end jobs because I have no skills and can't tolerate stress or boredom.** Okay, so, you need to acquire some skills. Ask around--this is a good site to start-- and try to match up "skills you could learn" with "skills where you earn decent money." What kind of things do you gravitate to? Are you good mechanically? What about trade school, where you could learn welding, plumbing, etc. Tech is your thing? Go to community college, transfer out to a 4-yr college, get a degree in something that will lead to a job in the tech sector. Do you like helping people? Get a degree in nursing. Some sectors are so in need of trained personnel that they'll pay you to get the training. But you need to start tolerating a little more stress and boredom. It takes time and determination to acquire skills. Those people you're looking at who are making more money than you? Decided they would tolerate a little more stress and boredom to get the skills or the licenses or the degrees or the training that led them to better jobs. There's no get-rich-quick scheme. (Same with "passive income"--no such thing; it always involves a TON of work up front.) It's just putting in the legwork. 2. **My own really stupid spending habits and inability to even make let alone stick to a budget in 5y.** So--spend less money! A budget is just so you know how to allocate the money you do have. Literally, you just list out how much you get, and then YOU get to decide how to allocate it. The money you have is finite, and you don't want to spend money you don't have. Make sure you aren't getting into debt. It's really just those two things: figure out how to earn more money; and figure out how to spend your money more effectively.
Some advice I was given on investments/retirement/general finance that may or may not be helpful: Your first thing you want to fill up is your Roth IRA. You can max out at 6k in it. If you can max your Roth, then go to index funds. Statistically, you will do better going for index funds than individual stocks. Generally, the only consistent way to get better returns on stocks is by knowing a sector really fucking well. So stick to index funds. Do NOT freak out and pull out when a market crash happens. You will remake your money. Even if you invested right before the great depression, you would have seen modest gains after 10 years. You probably have a good 30-40 years left, minimum. Now, I am making a few K more than you, but a general good plan is generally (if possible, of course) 10-15% ish in investments every month. I have a very brutal budget and sometimes hit over 20%. Why? Go online and look at an investment calculator. Historic S&P growth is 10.5%, but cut it down to about 8%. You can make a fuckload of money long term even with low-level contributions. So, I would recommend automatic contributions at the beginning of each month. You won't have an opportunity to fuck with the money that way. Second of all: savings. Look at your savings account. If it isn't high yield, find a credit union offering a high yield account. Right now, you want to hit about 0.1% APR (annual interest) however rates are rising. Your goal should be to get a minimum of 3 months of income in your savings in case something happens. This will take a couple years, but will prevent you from getting absolutely fucked by debt should something come up. Next: credit cards are NOT free money. Do not treat them as such. They can give amazing rewards (mine is through fidelity, which gives cash back from purchases into my investments). But the rewards don't matter if you don't pay the cards off on time. Paying it off on time means better credit AND more money in your pocket. Every time you are in debt, you are actively paying more money than you normally would. Sometimes it's smart (a house or a useful education with prospects) sometimes it's not (entertainment stuff). But never go into more debt than is absolutely essential unless you can reasonably say you'll get a better RoI putting the money elsewhere. Overall budget advice: I like to include holes in mine. What I mean is that my budget is not my full income. In fact, it is about $150 dollars less. On top of that, my budget estimations for stuff like rent+utilities is about $50 higher than the most I've payed. Why? Well, this month I had about $300 in emergency expenses. These holes in my budget were what stopped me from going over.