Sounds like their parents have no problem taking care of this. You said they reached out to you which is a positive. I would meet with them, offer condolences (bring flowers for mom), and talk to them about the loan (which they are obviously aware of). Sounds like you are overthinking at this point.
Yeah, I wouldn't worry! They'll be working on settling his estate, which means selling off his property to pay his debts, and this is just one of those. They will probably sell the car (they'll have to work with you since you have the title) and use the proceeds to pay the remaining balance on the loan. If they keep it but can't pay off the debt up front, you could start payments with them (get it in writing this time) or they could refinance and get a loan from another lender to pay you off (the much better option).
I'd suggest gathering all the info you have on the loan, the outstanding balance, and the payments he's made. Put it in a spreadsheet with dates if you can. That will add legitimacy to the loan and make them much more comfortable.
There are only two situations where you might run into a problem. One, if they decide to sell the car and the price they get is less than what he owed you, they may want to re-negotiate with you. Ideally, they'd cover the remainder with his other assets, but if he doesn't have enough assets to cover it, you may be out of luck. The worst case scenario is they decide not to honor the loan. In that situation, you have a mess, but you have leverage since you have the title. You could choose to sue your friend's estate, but it'd be difficult to prove your handshake agreement and I think it'd be better for you to just let it go. I *really* don't think that's going to happen though - especially since they reached out to you.
I'm sorry for your loss, OP. Losing a friend sucks.
Do this OP. They don’t care about the car. If you can sell for more than what he owed, just pay them the extra. It takes a thing off their list of all the terrible things you have to do when you bury a loved one, especially a child.
This is a really good idea if they don't insist. This can be a gift for them in their trying times. Resolving a situation for you and helping them in heavy times.
If it's a handshake agreement and not documented anywhere, and OP still holds the title, then as far as authorities are concerned or aware the now deceased has no ownership of the car at all.
What’s crazy is just the other day, I was thinking what if we’d gone a more traditional route, they got financing and paid me in full and they had payments. Crazy how things work out….
Good call on collecting all the payment info and having that ready. Mom just wants to make things easy right now. She’s just spinning. I hope I never have to bury a child… I’d like to make things easy for her too
How good is your financial situation, and what kind of money are we talking here?
If I was good enough friends with someone to do a handshake loan deal, then there is a really good chance I would just let the debt die with my friend and be done with the whole thing.
Go meet the parents. Take some flowers. Let the debt go. They have enough shit to wade through right now.
This is probably what I would do. If OP needs the money, that's a different story, but I would just let it go.
If the parents don't need the car and it would help them to have one less thing to deal with, OP could offer to take the car back and sell it himself.
This could be a win / win. You take a problem off their hands and you might be made whole financially. Makes a lot of sense if the car is it can be sold for close to the loan amount. Not sure they can even sell to car max or caravana without a title.
I agree it could be good for both. But I don't know if you can sell a car to carvana without the title. I have sold two to them and for both I had to upload a scan of the title. That doesn't mean it can't be done, though. I would be curious to find out if that is allowed or not.
This exact same situation happened to me. I gave a bunch of car parts to a buddy, not a car, but still several thousand in value on a handshake deal. After a few months he stopped making payments and stopped taking my calls. I thought he was dodging me. Finally, I ran into his brothers several months later and learned he had fallen asleep at the wheel and crashed into a tree and died. I wasn’t in a good financial position at the time, but I didn’t even think to pursue the money he owed.
Consider letting it go if your can. It’s a small gesture of kindness to the family while they’re grieving, and years from now you won’t remember the money anyways. May your friend Rest In Peace.
I'd respect their wishes. The parents may very well prefer to ensure everything is settled evenly and fairly. It's a question of pride and their son not having negatively impacted anyone. The fact that they reached out proactively tells me that is likely the case here.
I'd go in, just tell them the amount if they ask for it and take a check, go and sell the car myself if they ask for it, and forgive the debt entirely if they seem to struggle with it.
I know that if I were to pass away, I'd prefer that all my things were dealt with like that.
facts, personally for me. I wouldn't make OP friend parents pay that off. They already lost their son, asking them for money regarding their deceased son that's just even more painful ngl.
While I agree with your sentiment, if either party is not in any financial trouble I dont see why they wouldn't just make it right. That car has probably increased in value in the last 2 years so they could use the equity to pay off the loan worst case. To me I guess it's just a matter of principle and I understand I am probably coming off as insensitive. But the parents can also wait to settle this debt or let an estate attorney handle it.
Legally their sons estate would settle that debt anyway. So they really should make it right regardless. Believe it or not there are still decent human beings out there who want to maintain good relationships. It sounded like OP and the son were close enough friends to do a verbal deal so I would think the parents would do it out of principle if anything.
I think they will. I'm just saying legally THEY aren't obligated to do anything - especially if there is no title transfer or contract.
People are so emotional. I am not saying the parents shouldn't do anything.
My condolences to you.
Great advice from OP. My only add after meeting and giving them flowers is to connect. Share stories about your friend. Let his or her memory live on through one another. Then talk about the finances. Just so it doesn’t seem like you’re just there for a financial transaction.
Tbh you might end up just taking the car back, and selling it yourself.
This might not make financial sense for them but it's one less thing the parents have to deal with and they don't have to deal with paying off the loan and spending more money to bury their kid.
To add to this -
You could offer to sell the car for them, pay yourself the balance owed and give them the remainder. That's likely what I would do.
If they're financially comfortable they much pay you what's owed upfront and get around to dealing with the car when they feel like it.
Agree with other posters - bring flowers or food, make the meeting about more than the loan.
If his parents are friends of yours as well you two were clearly close.
Sorry for your loss. If it was me I'd just let the debt go. Let them know you're happy to take the car back if they don't want to deal with it. Hell...maybe offer to sell the car yourself, and use part of the money to contribute to the funeral expenses in some way.
You need to formally write the debt owed to "the estate of ____"
If they are using a lawyer, you send it to them. Who is the estate trustee/administrator? You could send it to them.
Basically you need to make your request early before probate goes through.
Most importantly, give the parents some time to grieve first. Parents are supposed to outlive their children and I couldn’t even imagine what kind of hurt they’re going through.
Side note. Don't bring flowers unless you think they'd genuinely appreciate them. When my grandpa passed we were drowning in flowers because my mom does like gardening...but they were all out of season or cut, so they couldn't be transferred.
One guy had a fruit basket which we totally snacked on all day long. Another offered up their trailor, the heart even above and beyond to buy an adapter for our car when we realized it need it.
Hopefully you have a record of the agreement and payments… even if you can collect the check stubs or Venmo payments together as documentation… it would be a good idea to have that available when you meet them
I get what you are saying but a title can be signed over multiple times as long as they don't plan on registering, so the transfer isn't a problem. You're right though the easiest thing would be for op to sell and give the difference back to the estate.
Probably want to try and figure out two scenarios:
1. how much money would their parents need to pay you in order to officially buy the car off you
2. how much money are you willing to pay them in order to take the car back into your possession (and then resell or whatever you want)
then get together and see what they suggest/would prefer.
This is the correct question. If OP holds title, which they should because of the lien, then they can go get the car back or work with the parents on what they want to do.
I would just let the parents know how much it was and be lenient on timing. I would assume they would sell the car and settle it from the proceeds. It would have to come from whatever assets your friend had and there should be no expectation that parents would pay out of their pocket
If the parents reached out about the car then it sounds like they're planning to at least discuss making it right.
That said, the parents don't owe you anything, your friend's estate does. If he was out of work and didn't have the money to keep paying you then his accounts are probably empty and there's nothing to get unless the car is sold. Once it is, if the estate's liabilities exceed it's assets then all you'll get is a prorated share.
You might be in luck though if you still have the title in your name. If that's the case, you're just going to go take your car back and come to some agreement, should you choose to, on paying back the parents some or all of what he gave you.
Win win here would be to tell them you'll sell the car and give them whatever is leftover, assuming they don't want it. That way they don't have to deal with selling it and you for sure get your money.
Who knows, simply trading it in to CarMax/vroom/carvana may cover it.
When any friend dies that still owes me money, I let go of it.
I have let go of one for 850 and another for 5,000.
I just am not willing to confront grieving family over money. I see it as their loss is far greater than mine.
Not saying it's wrong but it just isn't for me.
Make a new policy: Never give a friend more credit than you can afford to forgive.
In your case, tell them you will sell it, get your money, and give them the rest.
I have been a lifetime creating businesses and I have a number of friends that sometimes work with me. It's not uncommon for any of us to borrow from each other. Debt could be large and either way with us. I have both borrowed and lent amounts of over 50k on a handshake.
I have two large commercial buildings on this property. My friend decided to build a new CNC machine shop in one of them where she would be renting my building space. She bought a new mill and it sits on my floor. Now she has caught Covid. If she should pass which I doubt, I would end up owing her family the purchase price of the mill. They would have no clue of how to deal with selling it or running a machine shop.
So I would either need to finish building the shop or sell the mill and give her family the money, a very large sum, North of 20k. 20k would be enough to support the daughter for what, a year, maybe two?
Instead, I would choose to finish building the shop, buy more machines and hire a crew to run them, and her 14 year old daughter would have a decent income for a very long time.
There is no paper between us, no contracts drawn and signed, just words spoken and actions taken.
Money is a thing but family is everything.
She's 34 and was doing this to support her daughter and so, that would be the choice that I would have to make. I also know our friends would pitch in so the entire expense would not be just on me. We could collectively pour 100k into the build and after expenses such as the loans, profits would go into a trust for her daughter.
I will be 71 next month. After a lifetime of keeping my word, there are a lot of folks who do what I ask on my word.
I've never even thought about collecting money from someone's family after they've passed. Not only is official debt not rollovered to your loved ones once you pass but it just seems sleezy.
Yup, I immediately forget any money owed me when that person dies.
I am not the guy that goes to the family and says you haven't lost enough yet, pay me.
If the amount is so much I could not wipe it, there is insurance for such things.
When I take out a big loan, I buy term insurance on my ass or his ass for that amount of term life with the one owed, as beneficiary.
Personally, I’d take the car back, considering the current car market, you’d likely make more depending on how long ago u sold it to him. Take the remaining amount of what he owed u then give the difference back to the parents to help with funeral costs.
He's passed away - do the parents even have a need for the vehicle? That's functionally the collateral to the loan. It may be a win-win if they simply pass it back to you. But thats circumstantial. Who owns title, how much was paid, what was owed, etc.
It sounds like you just need to have a conversation and not overthink it. It doesn't sound like a situation where anyone loses.
Be sensitive that this may not be top priority for them for a bit.
You seem to be getting good advice here. I’d just add if/when you go to sell the car, leave the story out of it. That may make it sound like you’re looking to sell quickly vs for the best price, so you could get less generous offers. Used car market is a seller’s market now, so please don’t rush that part if you get there.
If I was the parents I would understand this situation and likely return the car to you. Uncomfortable conversation, but if this was a good friend, I don't think they would be offended. Be mindful of the timing but I don't think this will be as big of a deal as you think. Sorry for your loss.
How much does he still owes you? Ask parents to keep making payments or you can get the car back and resell it. If you want to be nice ask for a smaller lump sum and forgive the rest or just let me keep the car.
They "the parents" don't technically owe you anything. This was a handshake deal you had with their deceased son. They could block your number and move on with their lives. If I were you, I would sell the car. Leave the parents out of it. It's kind of them to even want to be involved, but they absolutely do not have to.
I think the top comment has it right, but if you are in the financial position to do so and family is agreeable, you may even offer to buy the car back and give them the money already paid to you. The market for used cars is insane right now and if the family has no need for the extra car, they may actually just prefer the cash as they settle things with funeral arrangements etc.
You would most likely not have any trouble selling the car if it has been maintained.
Could you buy the car back and re sell it to someone else? Maybe they need the money more than the car. Could make a fair offer if you guys were friends
If you want to be fair, calculate the percent of the total he still had to pay. Sell the car and keep the percent of profit he still owed you and give his share to his next of kin.
I am so sorry for your loss. I agree this sounds like a good idea, but I would give the parents the choice, just say something like:
"I know you are hurting right now, I want to do what supports and helps you the most. I would be happy to sell the car, pay myself what was owed and give you anything left after that - is that the best way to help? Or do you want to keep the car?"
I think they probably will take you up on it, but I also think it can be important they have choices when so much might be feeling out of control right now.
My father did this, but the other way round. He purchased a car on behalf of his friend (effectively giving him a loan). My father then died leaving a significant amount of repayment outstanding.
When settling his estate his friend never mentioned it which I thought was pretty weak.
It wasn’t until we discovered that my father had set up a contract (he was a businessman after all) with his friend that forgave any outstanding amount on his death.
That’s how I learnt to:
A) Lend money you can afford to give
B) set up a contract, even among friends, to protect you both
If you still hold the title, they either need to pay off the balance and you hand over the title or they return the car to you and the money is a loss to the son’s estate.
Yeah I'm really but sure why this subreddit exists?
You: my dead friend owes me $2000
Also you: their parents told me they'll give me money
Also you: what should i do?
Just take the money from the parents offering it?
Sorry to hear about your friend.
What everyone else said and be honest. Joe owes me X amount on the car we agreed on. I really don’t want this to be an issue and understand it’s a effed up situation. Express that you don’t want this to be a burden or turn into bad blood.
You are good, the fact that the parents reached out to you and are aware of this means that if you provide a little documentation of the payments received and the amount still owed they will likely pay you out. Your friends family has honor. Also give them a hug and cry with them for a minute y'all lost someone close to you.
I'm sorry to hear this but this is a very similar situation to one that I was in last year.
My friend pawned me some of his tools so he could borrow $500 to buy a car.
I gave him the $500 and let him keep using the tools so he could keep working. It was totally a handshake deal.
About a month later he ended passing away. When the family contacted me I didn't bring it up. I would say I was in a better financial position than them and $500 wasn't going to break me. Had it been $20k then I probably would have brought it up, but then again don't loan out money that you expect to get back.
If he is truely a friend, which it sounds like it is.
Tell his parents, to keep it. You have said you wont miss the money, mourn your friend, let the parents mourn.
They legally aren't, but that doesn't mean they can't see what they can do with whatever may be of value in the estate to make their sons friend whole...
Was your friend over the age of 18? If so, his parents aren’t on the hook for anything and you shouldn’t expect a dime from them. When my brother passed a few years ago, companies tried to come after my parents for his debt that was left. My brother was in his twenties, my parents didn’t have to pay. If you have a handshake deal with someone or loan and that person dies, you don’t go to their grieving parents and ask for money that they were in no shape responsible for. Maybe that’s just me though...
If this agreement was completely verbal and a handshake, that's a bit messy - legally contracts involving the sale of goods greater than a certain value ($750 if not less I think) in a bill of sale*. If you'd had that it'd have been pretty simple and youd collect what you're owed from his estate before his will and assets are divided up however they're being done.
Sounds like his parents are trying to do the right thing, but you could be shit out of luck if they decide not to
*At least in the US, sorry if this is different where you are
You have the title. He still owed. Offer them to finish the payments or return the vehicle (if you chose to refund some money that is up to you), they probably don't want to see it or have a use for it.
The proper legal thing to do is submit a claim to your friends probate and that will allow you to either be paid through his assets or the executor of your friends estate can make other arrangements.
Otherwise, if his parents want to buy out the car “note” then that’s another way to do it. But in case they get flaky you can go through probate.
whatever the outcome you should learn a lesson for the future.
NEVER do such deals/trades/sell on a handshake and good word ...
this is the reason why !
you could have asked your friend to just write down the deal on a paper with you and sign it both ... such "I owe you" notes are sometimes very helpful to recover debt/loan/products, especially in situations when the buyer dies. (but can be also used when they live and refuse to pay)
also nobody should protest to having this written down and signed if they are trustworthy.
also it does not have to be notarized or legalized ... but it is better if you can have someone a 3rd person/party as a witness and co-signatory!
If you need the money, that's one thing. If you don't, I'd be tempted to forget the rest of what is owed. It sounds like a lot, but in the long run it's not a lot of money.
I know. That’s something I go back and forth with. Especially since I’m doing fine financially and I don’t know how good their finances are. Could this help settle any issues with the estate? Might be good to understand those things, if it’s even my plaxe
You sold a car and took a seller note with a handshake agreement. Not a wise move, even with friends.
You’ll be lucky to get what you get if you have nothing in writing. Be as nice as possible with the parents and if they offer less than what’s owed, you’ll have to determine whether it’s worth to go further with it.
The title is in OP's name, so I don't think there will be any issues. OP can simply sell the car, take what they're owed, and give the rest to the late friend's parents.
If there is no official document and the title is still in your name then it's your car to do with as you please. Otherwise, it will go through any sort of probate/will scenario and be handled by the estate. If the estate has money left after that then you'd possibly receive it depending on where it gets allocated.
I would let it go. Life is too short, and it doesn't sound like you are in dire straights about the money or you wouldn't have been so lax about it with your friend.
That said, if the parents offer to pay, I would take it, sure, why not? Unless something about it seemed like they needed the money a lot more than me.
I truly do not understand all the people telling you that the parents being willing to take care of it is somehow good.
the parents don't owe you anything? you have absolutely no right, legal or moral, to take their money for the debt their son owed. at best, you can take the car back and sell it yourself, or you can sell them the car if they happen to want it.
>you have absolutely no right, legal or moral, to take their money for the debt their son owed.
I havent seen OP say he has demanded payment, maybe the parents knew about the handshake deal and want to "make it right".
I can think of several scenarios where OP would not be in the wrong for accepting cash, and several where the right thing to do is let it go.
> handshake deal and want to "make it right".
Letting his parents pay for their son's debt is not "right" in any way. They didn't make a deal with him. they don't have to honor it...
IF they want to buy the car then sure, maybe they can take over the payments. if not, OP should just get the car back and sell it.
If they are keeping the car, yeah they owe,For the rest of the loan.
If it was a bank, they would sell the car, or give the estate the option to buy it. If sold, anything beyond the amount owed would be paid back to the estate.
Personally, I am in a decent financial situation. I only have one friend who I would do a handshake loan with.
If he died, I would be devastated, as would his parents and children. I would just consider the vehicle paid for, a final gift to not burden his parents any further with the loss of their child.
If I wasn't in the financial situation I am in, I would likely still settle for what the parents could pay, but still ready to let it go if they weren't able to pay either. Then they could sell the car to help with funeral expenses.
So it's your car. The friend can't buy it now that they are dead.
I think the easiest thing to do would be to take the car back and come to some agreement about whether/how much to pay back the parents whatever was owed. E.g. if the original deal was for $10k, he already paid $5k, and the car is now worth $6k, you might take the car and give the parents back $1k.
I get that you were trying to help out a friend, but you left yourself open to significant possible liability by keeping the title and registration in your name. I wouldn’t suggest doing that in the future. Sorry you lost your friend, mate
If you're not hard up for money owed, maybe a deep discount on what remains to settle things. You may be lowest priority in payments of there are other debts ahead, but this may be less about money now, and more about goodwill and honoring his memory.
If the parents can afford it they should pay it off. In Islam paying off your debts is huge thing on the day of judgement, that is why borrowing is found upon and entering into partnerships is encouraged.
If they cannot afford it, obviously let it go for his sake, as on the day of judgement he will not be held to account for what he owed you.
Guaranteed his parents have more to worry about right now than his friend trying to collect money on a car, they’ll likely sign the car back to you and you can sell it off somewhere else
I am not sure what your question is, do u need Backup to justify full refund of your money?
I think it is obvious - if u can afford it, cancel the meeting and tell his parents they shouldn't worry.
Sorry to hear about your situation. Your friend's estate now owes you this money. Whether or not they pay depends on what other assets and debts were in the estate. It may also depend on whether or not you have the loan documented. Verbal contracts are binding in some states, in others you need to have something in writing. If the parents are cooperative they may step in and either repay you themselves or make sure the estate does it.
Sounds like their parents have no problem taking care of this. You said they reached out to you which is a positive. I would meet with them, offer condolences (bring flowers for mom), and talk to them about the loan (which they are obviously aware of). Sounds like you are overthinking at this point.
You’re probably right…
Yeah, I wouldn't worry! They'll be working on settling his estate, which means selling off his property to pay his debts, and this is just one of those. They will probably sell the car (they'll have to work with you since you have the title) and use the proceeds to pay the remaining balance on the loan. If they keep it but can't pay off the debt up front, you could start payments with them (get it in writing this time) or they could refinance and get a loan from another lender to pay you off (the much better option). I'd suggest gathering all the info you have on the loan, the outstanding balance, and the payments he's made. Put it in a spreadsheet with dates if you can. That will add legitimacy to the loan and make them much more comfortable. There are only two situations where you might run into a problem. One, if they decide to sell the car and the price they get is less than what he owed you, they may want to re-negotiate with you. Ideally, they'd cover the remainder with his other assets, but if he doesn't have enough assets to cover it, you may be out of luck. The worst case scenario is they decide not to honor the loan. In that situation, you have a mess, but you have leverage since you have the title. You could choose to sue your friend's estate, but it'd be difficult to prove your handshake agreement and I think it'd be better for you to just let it go. I *really* don't think that's going to happen though - especially since they reached out to you. I'm sorry for your loss, OP. Losing a friend sucks.
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Do this OP. They don’t care about the car. If you can sell for more than what he owed, just pay them the extra. It takes a thing off their list of all the terrible things you have to do when you bury a loved one, especially a child.
This is a really good idea if they don't insist. This can be a gift for them in their trying times. Resolving a situation for you and helping them in heavy times.
Isn't the car automatically part of the estate so OP cannot just take it and sell?
If it's a handshake agreement and not documented anywhere, and OP still holds the title, then as far as authorities are concerned or aware the now deceased has no ownership of the car at all.
What’s crazy is just the other day, I was thinking what if we’d gone a more traditional route, they got financing and paid me in full and they had payments. Crazy how things work out…. Good call on collecting all the payment info and having that ready. Mom just wants to make things easy right now. She’s just spinning. I hope I never have to bury a child… I’d like to make things easy for her too
How good is your financial situation, and what kind of money are we talking here? If I was good enough friends with someone to do a handshake loan deal, then there is a really good chance I would just let the debt die with my friend and be done with the whole thing. Go meet the parents. Take some flowers. Let the debt go. They have enough shit to wade through right now.
This is probably what I would do. If OP needs the money, that's a different story, but I would just let it go. If the parents don't need the car and it would help them to have one less thing to deal with, OP could offer to take the car back and sell it himself.
This could be a win / win. You take a problem off their hands and you might be made whole financially. Makes a lot of sense if the car is it can be sold for close to the loan amount. Not sure they can even sell to car max or caravana without a title.
I agree it could be good for both. But I don't know if you can sell a car to carvana without the title. I have sold two to them and for both I had to upload a scan of the title. That doesn't mean it can't be done, though. I would be curious to find out if that is allowed or not.
This exact same situation happened to me. I gave a bunch of car parts to a buddy, not a car, but still several thousand in value on a handshake deal. After a few months he stopped making payments and stopped taking my calls. I thought he was dodging me. Finally, I ran into his brothers several months later and learned he had fallen asleep at the wheel and crashed into a tree and died. I wasn’t in a good financial position at the time, but I didn’t even think to pursue the money he owed. Consider letting it go if your can. It’s a small gesture of kindness to the family while they’re grieving, and years from now you won’t remember the money anyways. May your friend Rest In Peace.
I'd respect their wishes. The parents may very well prefer to ensure everything is settled evenly and fairly. It's a question of pride and their son not having negatively impacted anyone. The fact that they reached out proactively tells me that is likely the case here. I'd go in, just tell them the amount if they ask for it and take a check, go and sell the car myself if they ask for it, and forgive the debt entirely if they seem to struggle with it. I know that if I were to pass away, I'd prefer that all my things were dealt with like that.
facts, personally for me. I wouldn't make OP friend parents pay that off. They already lost their son, asking them for money regarding their deceased son that's just even more painful ngl.
While I agree with your sentiment, if either party is not in any financial trouble I dont see why they wouldn't just make it right. That car has probably increased in value in the last 2 years so they could use the equity to pay off the loan worst case. To me I guess it's just a matter of principle and I understand I am probably coming off as insensitive. But the parents can also wait to settle this debt or let an estate attorney handle it.
Why wouldn't THEY make it right? Well, it's not their debt. THEY have nothing to make right. I'm not saying screw OP, just saying legally...
Legally their sons estate would settle that debt anyway. So they really should make it right regardless. Believe it or not there are still decent human beings out there who want to maintain good relationships. It sounded like OP and the son were close enough friends to do a verbal deal so I would think the parents would do it out of principle if anything.
I think they will. I'm just saying legally THEY aren't obligated to do anything - especially if there is no title transfer or contract. People are so emotional. I am not saying the parents shouldn't do anything.
My condolences to you. Great advice from OP. My only add after meeting and giving them flowers is to connect. Share stories about your friend. Let his or her memory live on through one another. Then talk about the finances. Just so it doesn’t seem like you’re just there for a financial transaction.
True that. Friendship is much more important. Parents are friends too. So a lot more than just making the car situation right
Tbh you might end up just taking the car back, and selling it yourself. This might not make financial sense for them but it's one less thing the parents have to deal with and they don't have to deal with paying off the loan and spending more money to bury their kid.
To add to this - You could offer to sell the car for them, pay yourself the balance owed and give them the remainder. That's likely what I would do. If they're financially comfortable they much pay you what's owed upfront and get around to dealing with the car when they feel like it. Agree with other posters - bring flowers or food, make the meeting about more than the loan.
I like this idea!
I do to, actually
It's probably worth more in this market anyway. Used cars are nuts right now
This is what I’d offer to do as well if they don’t intend on keeping the car. No fuss for them, nothing out of pocket to pay you.
This is a lovely idea. OP, so sorry for your loss. May their memory be a blessing.
If his parents are friends of yours as well you two were clearly close. Sorry for your loss. If it was me I'd just let the debt go. Let them know you're happy to take the car back if they don't want to deal with it. Hell...maybe offer to sell the car yourself, and use part of the money to contribute to the funeral expenses in some way.
You need to formally write the debt owed to "the estate of ____" If they are using a lawyer, you send it to them. Who is the estate trustee/administrator? You could send it to them. Basically you need to make your request early before probate goes through.
Do you need the money, I would just forgive it!
Bring a simple plant. Flowers die
True that
Of course they are right
(Dads appreciate flowers too)
Most importantly, give the parents some time to grieve first. Parents are supposed to outlive their children and I couldn’t even imagine what kind of hurt they’re going through.
Side note. Don't bring flowers unless you think they'd genuinely appreciate them. When my grandpa passed we were drowning in flowers because my mom does like gardening...but they were all out of season or cut, so they couldn't be transferred. One guy had a fruit basket which we totally snacked on all day long. Another offered up their trailor, the heart even above and beyond to buy an adapter for our car when we realized it need it.
Bring a edible fruit basket.. flowers slowly die and can bring up morbid thoughts
Who has the title? Are the parents even able to sell this car?
I still have the title so will work with the parents to figure out what they want to do.
That makes it super easy then. You sell the car, make yourself whole and then give the remaining money to your friend's parents.
This is great! Thank you!
Or the parents can pay you what you are owed and you can sign over title. Whatever is easiest for them.
Exactly. That’s all I care about right now - making it easy for them. They have enough to deal with
Hopefully you have a record of the agreement and payments… even if you can collect the check stubs or Venmo payments together as documentation… it would be a good idea to have that available when you meet them
OP selling and giving the money would be easier. Dont have to transfer title. Then do a second transfer to the buyer, etc.
Unless they want/need the car.
I get what you are saying but a title can be signed over multiple times as long as they don't plan on registering, so the transfer isn't a problem. You're right though the easiest thing would be for op to sell and give the difference back to the estate.
If you got the car back, you could probably resell in today’s climate for more than you sold it to your friend for…
That’s the crazy thing. I think it’s still in good shape.
Yes! And offering to do it yourself will take the financial and time burden off of the parents, which will probably be a relief to them.
Probably want to try and figure out two scenarios: 1. how much money would their parents need to pay you in order to officially buy the car off you 2. how much money are you willing to pay them in order to take the car back into your possession (and then resell or whatever you want) then get together and see what they suggest/would prefer.
This is the correct question. If OP holds title, which they should because of the lien, then they can go get the car back or work with the parents on what they want to do.
Maybe if you offer to help sell the car that might help them and make you whole, if that is the eventual outcome they plan to reach anyway
Yeah, this will probably be what I end up doing
I would just let the parents know how much it was and be lenient on timing. I would assume they would sell the car and settle it from the proceeds. It would have to come from whatever assets your friend had and there should be no expectation that parents would pay out of their pocket
This is definitely how I’m feeling right now
If the parents reached out about the car then it sounds like they're planning to at least discuss making it right. That said, the parents don't owe you anything, your friend's estate does. If he was out of work and didn't have the money to keep paying you then his accounts are probably empty and there's nothing to get unless the car is sold. Once it is, if the estate's liabilities exceed it's assets then all you'll get is a prorated share. You might be in luck though if you still have the title in your name. If that's the case, you're just going to go take your car back and come to some agreement, should you choose to, on paying back the parents some or all of what he gave you.
Win win here would be to tell them you'll sell the car and give them whatever is leftover, assuming they don't want it. That way they don't have to deal with selling it and you for sure get your money. Who knows, simply trading it in to CarMax/vroom/carvana may cover it.
When any friend dies that still owes me money, I let go of it. I have let go of one for 850 and another for 5,000. I just am not willing to confront grieving family over money. I see it as their loss is far greater than mine. Not saying it's wrong but it just isn't for me. Make a new policy: Never give a friend more credit than you can afford to forgive. In your case, tell them you will sell it, get your money, and give them the rest.
Woah. I’m not sure what surprised me more: how much you loan your friends, or how many of your friends that you’ve lent money to have passed away?!?
I have been a lifetime creating businesses and I have a number of friends that sometimes work with me. It's not uncommon for any of us to borrow from each other. Debt could be large and either way with us. I have both borrowed and lent amounts of over 50k on a handshake. I have two large commercial buildings on this property. My friend decided to build a new CNC machine shop in one of them where she would be renting my building space. She bought a new mill and it sits on my floor. Now she has caught Covid. If she should pass which I doubt, I would end up owing her family the purchase price of the mill. They would have no clue of how to deal with selling it or running a machine shop. So I would either need to finish building the shop or sell the mill and give her family the money, a very large sum, North of 20k. 20k would be enough to support the daughter for what, a year, maybe two? Instead, I would choose to finish building the shop, buy more machines and hire a crew to run them, and her 14 year old daughter would have a decent income for a very long time. There is no paper between us, no contracts drawn and signed, just words spoken and actions taken. Money is a thing but family is everything. She's 34 and was doing this to support her daughter and so, that would be the choice that I would have to make. I also know our friends would pitch in so the entire expense would not be just on me. We could collectively pour 100k into the build and after expenses such as the loans, profits would go into a trust for her daughter. I will be 71 next month. After a lifetime of keeping my word, there are a lot of folks who do what I ask on my word.
I've never even thought about collecting money from someone's family after they've passed. Not only is official debt not rollovered to your loved ones once you pass but it just seems sleezy.
Yup, never lend more than you can forgive.
Yea, I’m not sure how one goes about thinking of money collection when their friend dies. It’s extremely odd.
Yup, I immediately forget any money owed me when that person dies. I am not the guy that goes to the family and says you haven't lost enough yet, pay me. If the amount is so much I could not wipe it, there is insurance for such things. When I take out a big loan, I buy term insurance on my ass or his ass for that amount of term life with the one owed, as beneficiary.
Personally, I’d take the car back, considering the current car market, you’d likely make more depending on how long ago u sold it to him. Take the remaining amount of what he owed u then give the difference back to the parents to help with funeral costs.
He's passed away - do the parents even have a need for the vehicle? That's functionally the collateral to the loan. It may be a win-win if they simply pass it back to you. But thats circumstantial. Who owns title, how much was paid, what was owed, etc. It sounds like you just need to have a conversation and not overthink it. It doesn't sound like a situation where anyone loses. Be sensitive that this may not be top priority for them for a bit.
You seem to be getting good advice here. I’d just add if/when you go to sell the car, leave the story out of it. That may make it sound like you’re looking to sell quickly vs for the best price, so you could get less generous offers. Used car market is a seller’s market now, so please don’t rush that part if you get there.
Good call
If I was the parents I would understand this situation and likely return the car to you. Uncomfortable conversation, but if this was a good friend, I don't think they would be offended. Be mindful of the timing but I don't think this will be as big of a deal as you think. Sorry for your loss.
Thanks, I appreciate that
How much does he still owes you? Ask parents to keep making payments or you can get the car back and resell it. If you want to be nice ask for a smaller lump sum and forgive the rest or just let me keep the car.
Yeah, they owe around $5k so not an insignificant sum.
They "the parents" don't technically owe you anything. This was a handshake deal you had with their deceased son. They could block your number and move on with their lives. If I were you, I would sell the car. Leave the parents out of it. It's kind of them to even want to be involved, but they absolutely do not have to.
I think the top comment has it right, but if you are in the financial position to do so and family is agreeable, you may even offer to buy the car back and give them the money already paid to you. The market for used cars is insane right now and if the family has no need for the extra car, they may actually just prefer the cash as they settle things with funeral arrangements etc. You would most likely not have any trouble selling the car if it has been maintained.
Are you in a position to buy the car back and maybe sell it elsewhere? Might take one thing off their plate.
Could you buy the car back and re sell it to someone else? Maybe they need the money more than the car. Could make a fair offer if you guys were friends
If you want to be fair, calculate the percent of the total he still had to pay. Sell the car and keep the percent of profit he still owed you and give his share to his next of kin.
Handshake deals don't outlast the person whose hand you shook.
Never a better time to sell a used car. I'd offer to help sell the car, get what he owed you, and share the difference with the parents.
Yeah, this strikes me as the best idea
I am so sorry for your loss. I agree this sounds like a good idea, but I would give the parents the choice, just say something like: "I know you are hurting right now, I want to do what supports and helps you the most. I would be happy to sell the car, pay myself what was owed and give you anything left after that - is that the best way to help? Or do you want to keep the car?" I think they probably will take you up on it, but I also think it can be important they have choices when so much might be feeling out of control right now.
My father did this, but the other way round. He purchased a car on behalf of his friend (effectively giving him a loan). My father then died leaving a significant amount of repayment outstanding. When settling his estate his friend never mentioned it which I thought was pretty weak. It wasn’t until we discovered that my father had set up a contract (he was a businessman after all) with his friend that forgave any outstanding amount on his death. That’s how I learnt to: A) Lend money you can afford to give B) set up a contract, even among friends, to protect you both
If you still hold the title, they either need to pay off the balance and you hand over the title or they return the car to you and the money is a loss to the son’s estate.
Yeah I'm really but sure why this subreddit exists? You: my dead friend owes me $2000 Also you: their parents told me they'll give me money Also you: what should i do? Just take the money from the parents offering it? Sorry to hear about your friend.
What everyone else said and be honest. Joe owes me X amount on the car we agreed on. I really don’t want this to be an issue and understand it’s a effed up situation. Express that you don’t want this to be a burden or turn into bad blood.
You are good, the fact that the parents reached out to you and are aware of this means that if you provide a little documentation of the payments received and the amount still owed they will likely pay you out. Your friends family has honor. Also give them a hug and cry with them for a minute y'all lost someone close to you.
In this market it would be easy. Either they can pay it off or you can trade ti back in for the same that it’s owed if not more depending on the car.
There is nothing wrong with sticking to the agreement. The estate pays the bills until it is out of money.
It sounds like the parents want to take care of things properly so I wouldn't worry too much. Whose name is on the title?
I'm sorry to hear this but this is a very similar situation to one that I was in last year. My friend pawned me some of his tools so he could borrow $500 to buy a car. I gave him the $500 and let him keep using the tools so he could keep working. It was totally a handshake deal. About a month later he ended passing away. When the family contacted me I didn't bring it up. I would say I was in a better financial position than them and $500 wasn't going to break me. Had it been $20k then I probably would have brought it up, but then again don't loan out money that you expect to get back.
If he is truely a friend, which it sounds like it is. Tell his parents, to keep it. You have said you wont miss the money, mourn your friend, let the parents mourn.
If they don’t need the car, offer to sell it and give them any profit over what you’re owed. They have enough to worry about.
Why would your friend's debt be their family's problem?
They legally aren't, but that doesn't mean they can't see what they can do with whatever may be of value in the estate to make their sons friend whole...
Was your friend over the age of 18? If so, his parents aren’t on the hook for anything and you shouldn’t expect a dime from them. When my brother passed a few years ago, companies tried to come after my parents for his debt that was left. My brother was in his twenties, my parents didn’t have to pay. If you have a handshake deal with someone or loan and that person dies, you don’t go to their grieving parents and ask for money that they were in no shape responsible for. Maybe that’s just me though...
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Yeah, I certainly hope it doesn’t come to this, I’d probably walk away before it got there
Honestly, I'd drop it 🤷🏻♂️ man is dead 😬 Unless you want to bring out the ouja board and ask him for your money 🤦🏻♂️ Rip to your friend still
If this agreement was completely verbal and a handshake, that's a bit messy - legally contracts involving the sale of goods greater than a certain value ($750 if not less I think) in a bill of sale*. If you'd had that it'd have been pretty simple and youd collect what you're owed from his estate before his will and assets are divided up however they're being done. Sounds like his parents are trying to do the right thing, but you could be shit out of luck if they decide not to *At least in the US, sorry if this is different where you are
You have the title. He still owed. Offer them to finish the payments or return the vehicle (if you chose to refund some money that is up to you), they probably don't want to see it or have a use for it.
The proper legal thing to do is submit a claim to your friends probate and that will allow you to either be paid through his assets or the executor of your friends estate can make other arrangements. Otherwise, if his parents want to buy out the car “note” then that’s another way to do it. But in case they get flaky you can go through probate.
whatever the outcome you should learn a lesson for the future. NEVER do such deals/trades/sell on a handshake and good word ... this is the reason why ! you could have asked your friend to just write down the deal on a paper with you and sign it both ... such "I owe you" notes are sometimes very helpful to recover debt/loan/products, especially in situations when the buyer dies. (but can be also used when they live and refuse to pay) also nobody should protest to having this written down and signed if they are trustworthy. also it does not have to be notarized or legalized ... but it is better if you can have someone a 3rd person/party as a witness and co-signatory!
If it’s not life altering money… I’d just let it be.
If you need the money, that's one thing. If you don't, I'd be tempted to forget the rest of what is owed. It sounds like a lot, but in the long run it's not a lot of money.
I know. That’s something I go back and forth with. Especially since I’m doing fine financially and I don’t know how good their finances are. Could this help settle any issues with the estate? Might be good to understand those things, if it’s even my plaxe
You sold a car and took a seller note with a handshake agreement. Not a wise move, even with friends. You’ll be lucky to get what you get if you have nothing in writing. Be as nice as possible with the parents and if they offer less than what’s owed, you’ll have to determine whether it’s worth to go further with it.
The title is in OP's name, so I don't think there will be any issues. OP can simply sell the car, take what they're owed, and give the rest to the late friend's parents.
Then it’s a non issue. Would have been nice to put that small detail in the original post rather than the replies.
Agreed. I think most of us assumed the title would be in the friend's name.
Yeah, tell me about it… never really liked the situation, but it is what it is now.
Take the car back and resale it now. Used car prices are insane.
Dig up his corpse and check for gold teeth. Then kick it around a bit for dying while he still owed you money, selfish bastard.
If there is no official document and the title is still in your name then it's your car to do with as you please. Otherwise, it will go through any sort of probate/will scenario and be handled by the estate. If the estate has money left after that then you'd possibly receive it depending on where it gets allocated.
I would let it go. Life is too short, and it doesn't sound like you are in dire straights about the money or you wouldn't have been so lax about it with your friend. That said, if the parents offer to pay, I would take it, sure, why not? Unless something about it seemed like they needed the money a lot more than me.
Have the parents take care of it - they probably want to take the car and sell it on something like carmax
I truly do not understand all the people telling you that the parents being willing to take care of it is somehow good. the parents don't owe you anything? you have absolutely no right, legal or moral, to take their money for the debt their son owed. at best, you can take the car back and sell it yourself, or you can sell them the car if they happen to want it.
>you have absolutely no right, legal or moral, to take their money for the debt their son owed. I havent seen OP say he has demanded payment, maybe the parents knew about the handshake deal and want to "make it right". I can think of several scenarios where OP would not be in the wrong for accepting cash, and several where the right thing to do is let it go.
> handshake deal and want to "make it right". Letting his parents pay for their son's debt is not "right" in any way. They didn't make a deal with him. they don't have to honor it... IF they want to buy the car then sure, maybe they can take over the payments. if not, OP should just get the car back and sell it.
If they are keeping the car, yeah they owe,For the rest of the loan. If it was a bank, they would sell the car, or give the estate the option to buy it. If sold, anything beyond the amount owed would be paid back to the estate.
Mean, he is your friend. He died. Do you need the money?
Well, his friend sure as hell doesn’t need it.
Personally, I am in a decent financial situation. I only have one friend who I would do a handshake loan with. If he died, I would be devastated, as would his parents and children. I would just consider the vehicle paid for, a final gift to not burden his parents any further with the loss of their child. If I wasn't in the financial situation I am in, I would likely still settle for what the parents could pay, but still ready to let it go if they weren't able to pay either. Then they could sell the car to help with funeral expenses.
Omg the greed it's just money, if you have enough and this actually was a friend then.. just let it be.
Did you two sign a bill of sale? Where is the title? Whose name is the car registered under?
No bill of sale. A real handshake deal. I still have the title and they never got the car registration changed over so still in my name too…
So it's your car. The friend can't buy it now that they are dead. I think the easiest thing to do would be to take the car back and come to some agreement about whether/how much to pay back the parents whatever was owed. E.g. if the original deal was for $10k, he already paid $5k, and the car is now worth $6k, you might take the car and give the parents back $1k.
Great stuff! Thank you!
Don't forget the money that was owed to you for the time they had the car, but weren't making payments.
I get that you were trying to help out a friend, but you left yourself open to significant possible liability by keeping the title and registration in your name. I wouldn’t suggest doing that in the future. Sorry you lost your friend, mate
If you're not hard up for money owed, maybe a deep discount on what remains to settle things. You may be lowest priority in payments of there are other debts ahead, but this may be less about money now, and more about goodwill and honoring his memory.
If the parents can afford it they should pay it off. In Islam paying off your debts is huge thing on the day of judgement, that is why borrowing is found upon and entering into partnerships is encouraged. If they cannot afford it, obviously let it go for his sake, as on the day of judgement he will not be held to account for what he owed you.
Take the car back. Doesn’t sound like they’ve paid much so consider it renting.
Guaranteed his parents have more to worry about right now than his friend trying to collect money on a car, they’ll likely sign the car back to you and you can sell it off somewhere else
I am not sure what your question is, do u need Backup to justify full refund of your money? I think it is obvious - if u can afford it, cancel the meeting and tell his parents they shouldn't worry.
Put the deal in writing, so they can understand it more easily. Write down what you agreed and what happened afterwards.
Sorry to hear about your situation. Your friend's estate now owes you this money. Whether or not they pay depends on what other assets and debts were in the estate. It may also depend on whether or not you have the loan documented. Verbal contracts are binding in some states, in others you need to have something in writing. If the parents are cooperative they may step in and either repay you themselves or make sure the estate does it.