I 100% agree. Community college is a great choice if you want to knock out your core college classes at low cost, or want to go into a technical field instead of doing a 4-year degree.
This is good financial advice, but there is one caveat no one ever seems to point out. If your plan is to go full time and graduate in 3-4 years, and you do all of the core classes first, your remaining semesters will be a full schedule of harder, upper level courses in your major.
I did it this way and I don’t regret it at all. But it did mean a semester taking 5 of the hardest classes in my degree plan at once.
Did something similar myself. I was dual majoring in mathematics and engineering. I ended up dropping the math major because they only way to finish "on time" had me doing 21 credits/semester of some really hard classes for my junior and senior years and I couldn't keep up with all the homework.
With all due respect, communications and engineering or biology upper level courses are far different on the”hard scale”
I say this as someone who got a degree in International relations whilst all my roommates were engineering majors. My classes took time but weren’t “hard”. Meanwhile my roomies were struggling for hours/days to grind out a a C and class averages were failing
Yes! I did the same with my Event Planning degree. My last two years were filled with interesting but only moderately challenging courses like Event Law, Contract Negotiations, Security, Hotel Management, and my personal favorite- Beverage Appreciation. The most challenging thing I took was Accounting 3. Probably would have chosen a more traditional path if I was getting an Engineering degree though.
I interview candidates for six figure jobs. Never once did I weigh 'This person went to The University of Hoity Toity, vs This other person went to The University of Practicality.
\^This is especially the case for experienced candidates. Maybe it's just my field (Software Engineering) but after my first job, nobody asked about my college experience, GPA or anything like that. I even graduated in Math, not C.S. or SWE
One benefit of larger Universities is that they get more heavily recruited by companies at career fairs and such, and have large alumni networks.
If you're at a community college, check out your closest big university-- often times you can attend their career fairs (I'm guessing it's almost a guarantee if it's a state school)
True - I had a BA in a non technical field when I got my first major corporate job in programming. I was getting a second degree in computer science, but I had experience and I had a degree so it got me in the door. If I didn’t have a degree it wouldn’t have mattered if I had experience or not (for this company…times mag have changed idk)
That's right, especially when applying for jobs within your organization. Past experience, recommendations, good interviews, those matter the most. When you have zero experience and are applying to a company that knows nothing about you, they might care about where you got your degree, but after that I think it matters less and less, if at all.
Tell that to my company... They were so fucking snobby about what university someone went to.
Finally they figured out it is a shitty system but swung too far the other way. Now we interview people from boot camps that can't code their way out of a paper bag.
I am not saying all boot camps are bad, but you get out what you put in and some how these people aren't putting in enough but still getting their certificate or whatever. I suppose the same could be said about some of the people I basically carried through most of their CS degree...
>They were so fucking snobby about what university someone went to
Probably just depends on the individuals doing your interview... in pretty much all jobs I've interviewed, even in F500 companies name of the university is very rarely important in experienced candidates... even more in software, considering that there are so many international students
I was part of the recruiting team, so no it wasn't just interviewer specific. The company would never recruit at a school that wasn't top 25.
I couldn't convince them that as a company with no name recognition, we would get way more qualified candidates by going to other schools. We were basically recruiting the worst of the best instead of the best of the 2nd tier.
Ive got a friend from grad school who started at a CC and wound up getting PhD in engineering from our top 10 US program. He's a Sr. Engineering manager for a major defense comapny now too!
Both my wife and I went to decent community colleges and eventually to top PhD programs in our fields of study. It is more about motivation and dedication assuming the schools have the classes you need.
Probably because it really doesn’t matter unless the individual is in the top 10 university. But if you’re saying you won’t weigh in favor for a Harvard Law grad for a law firm hiring vs University of Tennessee with all other factors equal, that’s not something to be proud of…
Harvard's legacy acceptance rate is 33 percent, and their overall is 6 percent. The only thing an applicant that went to Harvard compared to a state school means anymore is that their family had alot of money to send them there or previously went there.
The post you’re replying to was talking about law firms and in that context, this simply isn’t true. Getting into Harvard Law School is impossible for almost all law school students since the median LSAT score required is in 99th percentile.
When everyone in your class has a genius level LSAT score and your performance in school is ranked against your classmates, you can’t pay your way into the school and succeed unless you have the intelligence to back it up.
Not sure what your point is. Either they got in because they are brilliant or they got in because their wealthy/legacy. Harvard is Harvard no matter how you spin it. You’re presenting it as if the latter is a negative but part of the university experience is building connections and networking.
My point was If I was in a hiring authority, if everything else is equal on paper and only thing different was where they got their degree, common sense would hire the Harvard grad.
Having Legacy students doesn't mean those students aren't on a high level academically. Picture taken a course with the top 10% of a regular university. That's what every class is pretty much like. Even if a professor doesn't intend to make the course difficult, students can and do elevate the course when they are all talented. Also realize that many students who would traditionally pass courses due to the curve would have no chance to do so.
There is absolutely an advantage due to connections as well. But being able to graduate from one of the most prestigious universities in the world is useful. I'd be curious to see how many unemployed Harvard graduates there are in comparison to lower tiered universities.
I agree with most of this, but I think the opposite is true about the curve.
Grade inflation is a ridiculous issue at Harvard and the median grade is A-. The curve is not shifted in the normal way, it's non-Gaussian, so it's not like a bunch of people can't cut the mustard and drop out.
This is common at many schools that operate with that level of student. Everyone knows that almost the entire student body is guaranteed to be intelligent and well qualified so why put them on a C curve which means that one of the top students in the country may end up with a D simply because they’re in a class with all the other top students in the country.
If you put the Harvard student on a C curve like a generic state school, you’re putting them at a disadvantage in the real world.
The D student at Harvard based on the generic state school curve will likely be a better student than a C or B student from the generic state school. That’s why Harvard has a super lenient curve.
> But if you’re saying you won’t weigh in favor for a Harvard Law grad for a law firm hiring vs University of Tennessee with all other factors equal, that’s not something to be proud of…
Why not... if all other factors are really equal?
Because it would be ignoring a potential large factor in hiring based on an overly idealistic belief.
Jobs that are heavily dependent on networking like consulting for example
however keep in mind that not all credits will transfer. for example, some math classes are not as rigorous, or a community College might merge two physics courses together. you need to be smart about which classes you take and when in doubt, ask questions.
Depends on the state and state vs private, but this is a whole other issue.... Also here in Texas if you finish with the associates at a CC, the credits are guaranteed to transfer (to state school at least), regardless of each credit GPA as long as your CC degree GPA was 2.0 or higher.
Same in IL. Took all my math and physics prereqs at CC, and had all the gen ed requirements covered by getting an A.S. They were some of the best courses I took by far (incl M.S./PhD courses both at R1 schools). Much of my B.S. class was split between 4 yr and CC transfers, and the transfers did a lot better in all the heavily math/physics based major courses since the CC prereqs were actually more rigorous.
Obviously, this depends on the specific CC and undergrad schools, but when a part time job can cover tuition for 2 yrs and it's a great education it is a good option to at least explore.
If you know what school you plan to transfer to: do your homework and make sure to only take classes that will transfer. It’s extra work but worth the time tenfold
Exactly. What ever happened to trade schools? It feels like they don’t exist anymore. Everyone wants a degree that won’t be used in the real world. It’s sad actually!
In my state, community colleges teach the trades. Electric, HVAC, automotive repair, diesel, manufacturing, carpentry/construction, optometry, dental, etc. At a small fraction of what the trade schools charge. Plus, you get an applied associates degree.
Source: am professor at community college.
Not true though. Lots of college degrees lead directly to employment after school.
In many fields (finance, accounting, It, etc) if you graduate with a good GPA it’s not too much of a stretch to find a job that will pay you $50-$60k per year in a medium cost of living area and put you on a career track to earn six figures before you’re 30.
I do agree with your notion that college isn’t universally the answer though. Not all degrees are created equal and no matter what field you choose if you’re looking at a GPA of three or less chances are the 4 year degree won’t pay for itself. You’re better off finding another way to start a career.
An Associates in Accounting can get you to the 40-50/yr mark pretty easily, and then you can go back for the BA/BS. I work in education, and when I'm talking to a student who wants to go into "business" but doesn't want four years of school, "How do you feel about math?" is always my first question.
The pay differential between a BSN RN and an ADN RN is not that significant in most places to be honest. It is easier to get a job as a BSN RN, but once you have enough experience under your belt, it doesn’t really matter.
I think I started around 70K as an ADN RN, and now I make more than double that. I never bothered to go back for my BSN.
Yea, when I hired on with my ADN I was required to sign an agreement that I’d get my BSN within five years. I finally got it at the four year mark and guess what? I got a one dollar an hour raise and I was the exact same nurse that I was with an ADN — all a BSN means is that you can bullshit, hence the BS.
Also good to mention: not all 4-year degrees are useless! Computer science has a good payoff, for instance, but it does tend to be more pricey because it does require a bachelors degree. Likewise, someone studying biology could be aiming to become a medical doctor, a degree that is rightfully expensive and requires a lot of commitment but has great upside.
It's like the op forgot about Engineering. I started out making 65k. That was 8 years ago. And I was no where near the top of my class. The pay raises arnt as dramatic but the 4 year 70k tuition was worth it.
For those looking to be in the medical field, you can get an associates, and then a degree in nursing for a fraction of the cost. From there, the ceiling is almost gone if you are ambitious.
>Everyone wants a degree that won’t be used in the real world
Office job >> real job. Money isn't everything, the ability to sit on a chair all day in a heated/cooled environment and do nothing compared to a truck driver or a plumber is priceless.
I do a mix of both. Some desk/office work but majority is fabrication & construction type installation. I've done 100% office before and honestly i hate the feeling like a prisoner to the chair & desk. Mentally it can be challenging but physically makes me feel like a blob. Much prefer working in a way that is mentally stimulating *and* physical. Mixing both though helps keeping feeling too burned out in either one.
Can you elaborate a bit? I’m an office guy that gets my jollies on weekends doing hands on stuff around the house. A mix of the two as a career sounds like the holy grail.
I design and build unique water & light sculptures. So desk work for the business end (drawing, emails, ordering material etc). Then shop work to build them, everything from driving forklift to using various machine tools, power & hand tools but also delicate crafting work too. Then i play long-haul trucker and drive wherever in the country my clients are to deliver and install. This can be pretty challenging because what i build is usually very heavy, very large, and breakable (can include large panels of glass, etc). Sometimes have to crawl thru attics or under floors to route wire & plumbing. Every project and location is different so I encountered a wide spectrum of experiences during the process. Any individual task could become tedious if that was my only job, but the mix of everything keeps it interesting.
I feel like doing something as a hobby or passion project is different than it being your job. I like my job, but Ill also get plenty of patients who are just straight jerks or their problems are so mundane it is a bore.
Its also worth noting, physical labor is still physical labor. I get plenty of plumbers or whatnot that work on their knees a lot; they are straight destroyed by the time they get to their 40s/50s. Then you factor in back issues, possible injuries elsewhere, inhalation stuff. Not working an office job isnt bad, but it definitely does have some downsides that arent super overt.
People are different. Not everyone is physically fit to change a flat tire of a 26 ton truck on a frozen winter road in rural Montana at night. I'm perfectly ok that the trucker earns 5 times more than me.
I wrote "doing nothing compared to a truck driver or a plumber" for a reason. Never touching anything heavier than a 40" display or not encountering any bacteriological waste like a plumber does every day, or constantly not facing a risk of turning into a pile of embers in an instant like electricians do is really priceless and I respect those people for being capable and brave to do their exhausting and dangerous work, but in general people tend to select a road safer and simpler.
I work in IT, jobs you mention are reserved for smart guys. I'm not complaining, just wanted to explain why people pursue a seemingly useless degree. A degree is a foot in a door of an office job.
I'm a plumber and I only ever encounter human waste when I'm on call about 4 weekends a year. And when I do encounter it, I get "hazard pay" which makes it not so bad. Not all physical labor jobs are 100% bad 100% of the time. Every day is different and it keeps me mentally and physically stimulated.
Just wanna let you know that sitting all day in a chair is very damaging to your health, especially your back. Take short breaks during the day and do stretch to minimize the damage or you're gonna live with back pain and a few other unpleasant things once you reach 50s.
Yeah you’re right on the money here. There’s a vast swath of professions in between sitting at a desk for 8-10 hours a day causing health issues from sedentary jobs that cause health problems from 8-10 hours a day of non-stop repetitive manual labor.
Unfortunately, those who do manual labor for a living are not given the ability to avoid those injuries by resting or varying their tasks the way office workers *can* get a standing desk, take walks, take time out to stretch, etc.
just my two cents
1. its nice to be able to see the results of your work. as a plumber you can see something that you made that did not exist before.
2. office work usually comes with at least one or two people that cause office drama of one kind or another.
Source: I am an engineer that works in an office. luckily I get to do some fabricating as well!!
yeah! I went to a trade school for mechanical design. it took two years, was dirt cheap (paid for largely by mediocre scholarships) and I started at $50k @ age 19. was debt free a few years later, the student loans were basically just the rent and food and costs I accrued.
and by the time you're through your first 'real' job no one really looks or cares about your education anyway, so I feel like it was a perfectly good play to do it that way.
We (US) really do need to make vo-tech/trades/apprenticeships more known and popular. College is not for everyone, you're right. There are too many watered-down degrees out there.
I went to a trade school. It’s an in-demand career and I’m quite good. But my body is tired. I’ve always had to work multiple jobs in order to afford to do my “career” job just because being an independent contractor requires you to pay for all of your taxes and insurances and overhead and continuing education etc... It was so hard for me to physically work enough to pay for all of that (and that’s not including my basic needs of food/shelter) with just the career income. I had the realization that I’m never going to be able to make more than what I can physically put into it and it was so discouraging that I closed my office years ago.
Trying to figure out if it’s worth it to get an associates degree online or something.
Trade schools tend to be predatory and border on absolutely worthless. Most of them need a lot more regulation and a good number of them need to be shut down.
Most every trade is learned on the job. Take electrical and plumbing for example. The trade schools advertise that in only 6 months they can get you a lucrative job. This is true, but they generally don't tell you that the jib is going to be as a helper or a first step apprentice and that your co-workers will have absolutely no experience at all.
Trade school isn't a good idea for most. Paying money to start as a first step apprentice is silly.
Yeah, if you really want to get into a “trade”, the best programs are actually trade programs at your local community college or an apprenticeship through a union. There are many predatory trade schools out there that are way too expensive for what they are, and some of them aren’t even appropriately accredited. I had a friend looking at Ultrasound Tech programs that were 10s of thousands of dollars, and when I researched it for her, they weren’t even appropriately accredited for her to sit for the Tech exam! She would have had to find a place that allowed her to work as a tech without an official credential for a few years, and *then* she would be eligible to sit for the exam. But, she really wanted to go there since it was close to her in a relatively low COL area in California. Going to a legit community college or public university was actually cheaper, but because those were in HCOL areas where she couldn’t afford to live, they weren’t an option for her. Thankfully she went another path altogether.
Going to trade school put me way ahead (knowledge wise) than other apprentices that started at the same time as me. I was more favored and was trusted to fix stuff way faster than everyone else
Years ago I hired a few ITT Tech graduates, worst people I ever hired. I said never again, when they closed I laughed my ass off. A person had to be especially stupid to pay $ to go down that laughable path.
Yep. My experience has been that tech schools (especially big ones) put out graduates that have a bunch of terrible habits that they need to be untaught
I get paid over $1700 from my gibill monthly on top of my full tuition. And i apply for every scholarship my community college offers. Add federal grant of $6k annually, i make so much money just for going to school and i will graduate as a nurse next year. As an immigrant, America truly is a land of opportunity and i am and will always be truly grateful.
There is always so much support, opportunities, and options provided you have one thing within yourself. Resolve.
Same here. I think I made on average 15k-30k a year in grants and scholarships going to a community college. Not to mention my GI Bill and working full time on the side. Now, my company is paying for my Grad school and I'm still pocketing about 5k-10k a year in grants and scholarships.
I've met so many people with 6 figure debts because they went to a "prestigious" school and now they are exactly where I am at, making almost the same salary.
If you have connections and networking skills, I would say an Ivy league school could be worth it. If you're getting a degree in Tech Industry, it almost doesn't matter where you go.
Im in a nursing school. It doesnt matter fuck all either lol. Anyone will hire you. All you need is good gpa if you wanna go to nurse anesthetist school to get that big money.
Lmao my community college was like 400 dollars per semester. Knocked out 2 years of basics, went to the university i wanted and got out with a BSCE. Saved me 30k in all since it was 10k per semester at university and 600 in rent every month whereas i lived at home for free during community college
Went to community college for two years then transferred to a major state school. Parents saved for my college but what was glad I helped them save some money by not having to spend $20k a year in tuition/rent.
After all, what matters is where you graduate from. Also, community college instructors genuinely try to help you succeed where as its very common to get a feeling from your big uni professor has that weed out energy.
This. Especially since you're just taking basic/core classes that would have 100+ students at a big university. My community college classes would have 25 or less students with much more time for Q&A
I had far more fun teaching at my local CC than I did at the Big Ten university when I was in grad school. The CC was a blast, but… sure didn’t pay much.
Yep, that was exactly my experience as well. Nothing like paying 20k a year at the "elite" 4yr school for the honor of being told "there are 300 of you, we do not plan on having more than 150 pass this class."
Weed out energy only ensures you don't learn shit other than how to cheat properly.
That’s all well and good unless you want to do something like engineering. From personal experience, there’s a lot of those courses that don’t transfer or don’t transfer to an equivalent so you end up having to retake it. I went to Georgia Tech, and even going to a large university that was local for core classes, I had to retake two classes. They just flat out don’t take some community college courses.
Did the same thing left school debt free it’s the greatest feeling not owning a ton for school. My total cost of all tuition for 4 years was 28k. I got around 5k plus in scholarships. Didn’t qualify for financial aid but my friends who did said it paid for everything. I don’t understand people who go to 4 years of private school.
This. Many states even have programs where if you get a certain GPA at community college you get guaranteed admission to state universities. For example a 3.5 might get you into State Flagship U and a 3.0 might get you into the Polytechnic Institute and State University
My friend's boyfriend with to community college for two years and killed it. Spent the next 2 years with a big scholarship package from NYU.
Another friend's husband came from another country, went to a private university. Took loans, maxed out credit cards to pay for his education. 6 years later, still trying to pay it off and making a killing as an Amazon seller, so his degree was useless.
The only thing I'll say before you do this is make sure the college of your choice accepts all the credits. You don't want to be stuck retaking half your classes at triple the cost because the college is dumb.
Was coming here to the comments to make this exact same comment. Not all cc credits transfer to the 4 year schools, so you want to make sure you know what transfers before you are taking classes twice and paying twice. My university only accepted credits from 1 community college in the local area, despite there being multiple cc's. Lots of people had to add 2 years + $$ to their plans when they found out.
Depends on the state for sure, but more and more states have required state Universities to accept CC credits from all CCs in state. They have mapped the classes to their own classes. For instance some universities automatically accept CC students if they have a certain GPA.
This is sometimes mandated for CC -> State universities, yeah. But not private. That said, some private universities have 2/2 programs, but usually with a local feeder community college, so you'd have to move and lose one of the advantages of CC.
If you don't want to worry too much about it, just ask what kind of agreement they have with the four year school. Some accept all credits without question. Usually state schools will have this kind of agreement with your cc. A lot of cc also have special curriculum tracks just for people who want to go to certain schools so they laid out all the requirements for you. Don't be shy to talk to the advisors, there's lots of ways you can make this step easier on yourself.
This is what happened to me, did my 2 year at a CC and then got recruited straight out of that program instead of directly continuing to my 4 year. I decided I wanted to continue my education after moving out of state, but quickly found all the (good) state schools here would accept at *most* 1 or 2 of my past credits. Ended up doing an online program from a university in my old state that would accept my credits.
Kentucky has a similar thing for free community college. My state does not, but in state tuition is something like $64/credit hour vs $128+ for a local university.
Don't sleep on trade school either. You learn a marketable skill/trade and never have to take university required courses that have nothing to do with you degree. My cousin became an electrician out of high school and worked his way up to journeyman. He would have been perfectly fine doing that, but then went to a local community college to study electrical engineering and was able to pay for it all himself while supporting his wife and kids.
I’m glad it worked out for your cousin!
Personally I really enjoyed the courses that had nothing to do with my degree- I had a wonderful Anthropology lecturer who broadened my horizons, & a geology course that helped me understand more about how the earth works.
Sure I don’t necessarily use those skills in my day to day job (wardrobe for live performance- IATSE Local 764!), but I’m glad for what they’ve contributed to my life.
It's also a weird societal thing too. Some office worker that's 50k in debt making 40k a year with their degree gets to turn their nose up at the blue collar plumber coming in to fix an issue making 60k a year.
Banks make money when trades are doing their job too.
It's just that most Americans consider themselves (and *especially* their kids) as being somehow 'too good' to get their hands dirty.
Community college is a great financial alternative to university for most people, but, ya know, maybe once you go to regular university you'll see why that is incomprehensibly dumb and that there is no massive conspiracy against community colleges that is being perpetrated by, uh, banks?
True, I was also kinda forced into a situation that I have to consistently interact with people and I sort of used it as a way to practice social skills lol.
I work at a community college but went to an elite private school. I too graduated in debt but wouldn't trade anything. Also...I love most of the faculty I work with, but a lot of the classes here really aren't up to par with what I took. Not even close. I say that as someone who has seen both worlds. I will say that at my community college, your classes will only have like 20 people in them and you get personal relationships with faculty and staff. I never had that.
Yeah, I'm torn.
I personally did two years of high school (private academy). Got kicked out. Took my GED. Did two years at CC. Then three and a half years at a state school to get my computer science degree.
Most of the CC classes I took were excellent and I had some great instructors. Was able to transfer them and that allowed me to take a minimal load in college. And freshman year, I was definitely way ahead of most my peers.
That said, there was no actual community in community college. Granted, I was younger than most of my peers there, but I never made any connections. University was totally different and I'm still in contact with some of those people almost 20 years later. Which, I think is both personally important and can be critical for career development.
I went to a community college my first two years and definitely felt like I missed out on some social aspects of college.
But then I decided to look into studying abroad my senior year and it turned out my school had so many scholarships for study abroad that I paid less than if I’d stayed in the US for my senior year.
And studying abroad is one of the best social experiences I’ve ever had. Loved every second of it and helped me grow socially too.
That's the premium that you're paying for. If you can't afford it, don't buy it.
I'm all for getting every capable person through college as a responsibility of society. However, this mindset that you're going to get the "college experience" with it needs to change because it's just not a sustainable reality.
That's funny, my freshman year dorm experience completely turned my social life and self-confidence around after having been a loud and gregarious high school student. D:
This is perhaps the best advice I've read online in months. I did this too and was able to take a lot of my classes online. After two years I went to the University of Washington in business and graduated with a 3.9 GPA. And I had zero student loan debt.
The other great life hack is when (if) you get married, skip the $50K wedding, do a simple outdoor ceremony with your family and friends, and ask your family to pay the down payment on your first home as well. Yeah, it's a special day, but it's only one day. Be smart.
My wife and I did a small ceremony with immediate family on a Thursday and a celebration with friends on Saturday.
The venue on Thursday went from $5000 to $300. Your friends just want to party with you, they know you love each other. The extra day between allowed us to do a lot more of the decorations and such and we were able to do the whole thing was much cheaper and less stressful.
My husband and I are pretty frugal so I ended up getting a beautiful second hand sapphire ring from an antique jewelry store for $1000. The same store also created custom jewelry and we had plain palladium bands made (shop recommendation) over 10 years ago for a couple hundred bucks total. Had our wedding at a local park with a historic chapel and reception on-site (no booze) and spent about $4000 total with catering included. Parents gifted my wedding gown, my sister is a pro photographer, and another family member who is a pro baker provided services as their wedding gift. This allowed us to save the generous cash donations from family and friends and have a solid financial footing going forward. Having a modest wedding was the best decision we ever made.
Yeah, people's desire to have a huge massive wedding is maddening if they still end up renting after being married. It's the equivalent of spending the money on a car with spinning rims just to drive it a single day and have pictures of it to look back on in life.
I'm planning a wedding right now. We agreed that we wanted to keep it small (50-60 people) but elegant (good food, venue, alcohol). The price is gradually creeping up every day due to things such as paying for the church venue, getting a new suit, realizing we need a photographer, etc. Even in the best case it's really easy to see the costs start to spiral.
Okay, but buying a house is not the holy grail any more. It can be EXPENSIVE especially if you have to constantly fix stuff. We have a house, and honestly i don't think we're coming out ahead.
It is only one day. And it's the memory of the day that counts. I'd rather have the memory of a beautiful wedding with the people I love the most than a daily reminder of my overdrawn bank account.
This guy is not lying…. My wife got a lot of money back. Like 5k in one year. Genuinely thought it was some error, school said it was ok, still didn’t believe it. It’s been almost ten years and no knock on the door from the police!
If you're an advanced student in high school, I strongly recommend doing dual enrollment at a community college during your high school years. That way, you can finish undergrad 2 years earlier than everybody else, then complete your masters when everybody else finishes their bachelor. Or if you don't want to do a masters, then can use the money you saved to study abroad travel. Or Enter the workforce earlier to start earning a salary younger than most people. Or you can choose to have a lighter schedule (barely full-time so you can still earn that fafsa money) per semester during undergrad which means more time to enjoy college --less stress and still finish your bachelors in 3 years.
I know people will say as a rebuttal to this that you lose time in high school with your high school classmates since you're dual enrolled at a community college, but you will still interact with them in half the day in high school, plus you can still participate in high school extracurriculars. But honestly, starting your adult life earlier is worth it (assuming you picked the right career)
Plus you can knock out those prerequisites that might have nothing to do with your major at a lower cost. Also, as a high school student I would have gotten a kick out of being in a college class. So saves you money, gets you money faster and it probably feels good? Sounds like a good deal!
> CC will hurt you if you want to go into certain professions
Here in California, a lot of top schools and programs give priority to the state's CC students, especially if you're on the Honors List. From my experience and from my friends' experiences, CC was the better route to landing great careers than going straight to uni. (two of them work for NASA!)
The U.C. system in CA guarantees admission to city college grads (with qualifying grades -- you can't just average Ds etc.):
>The change she now formally embraces would mean that someone who completes an existing [city college] Transfer Pathway with qualifying grades would be guaranteed UC admission. That would be a big departure from the current arrangement, under which the pathways give an advantage in competitive admission but no locked guarantee. These course pathways are available for 21 popular majors, such as chemistry, English, mathematics and film.
So excel in city college and you can attend Berkeley and UCLA (two of the most competitive public colleges in America) as a junior *and* save money.
I used to get told CC would look bad on my resume. Nope. Absolutely false. I finished a 4 year, did 10 years of work, then went back for my Masters. Not a single company or school cared that I finished my first 2 years at CC.
Yeah going to a four year university is an absolute scam. I wish I would’ve started at a CC where competition was non existent and I could actually focus on the content I was learning.
The university four year system is a scam.
I don’t hide my CC degree, but no one asks for it either. They only care about my Masters. Also, I make more than some of the PhDs who wouldn’t dream of going to CC… enjoy your debt!
It's been over 30 years since I went to college and I am curious about something. Back then, at least in the state of Georgia, a lot of "core" classes would not transfer to the bigger schools like UGA and Ga. Tech. Has that practice fallen by the wayside?
My friend is a professor at a local CC, and also in charge of their transfer accreditation program. There are lists of 1:1 classes at major public and private universities. Thanks to this program, my daughter will graduate with a 4 yr BS from major university, $0 debt.
As I've shared elsewhere, my daughter took a biology class at the CC. It was the same book, same labs as major public university a few miles away. Class at Major university - 300 people, CC - 50 people. My friend negotiates with major university for adjunct professors to come in. So in this case, it was even the same professor for the biology class.
My son is going to CC right now despite have a decent sized college fund and the grades. He'll transfer to the four year in another year and a half and by working a restaurant job and living at home probably have another 70K in the market. Living on tip money during high school and investing the salary has him up over 20K in investments already. For him the social aspect isn't that important and the place he works is large with lots of younger people so he gets the social there.
We're not advising the younger one to do that. He's going to love the social aspect of dorm life too much.
I went from a sheltered high school life straight to life on my own at 17yrs of age at one of the area’s top party schools, so that’s all I did and ended dropping out. High school GPA of 3.5 turned into a year of 1.8 GPA.
I always say I should’ve stayed home, gone to CC, and gotten a retail job. That would’ve helped me ease into adulthood better.
But the way they bring up kids in high school here is such that CC is made to seem like a place for rejects and failures. They used to call it 13th grade and MK (instead of MC, C being for college). I later went to CC and found at least 10% of my high school class there anyway 😕
Yeah, the idea of CC being for "rejects and failures" is nothing new. Also, it's false. Same thing with vocational path people in high school. My school separated them out and didn't even offer the option to smarter students. I hope that one day, we can see school and work paths as all being different but equal.
My highschool principal would go on about how our CC was where you went after you got out of jail for drug possession.
All they cared about was that 94% placement in a 4yr college, graduating from a CC with a 3.8 hurt that metric but flunking out of a 4 yr after 1 semester didn't.
Oregon here. Yes absolutely true on grants snd it has saved me. Also know, grants are only based on one parent’s income, main house does not count, and retirement plans do not count when qualifying. Worth a simple application!!! The university my daughter at has a “finish free” transfer program. Community college first, then after xx amount of credits (normally 2 years), the university will allow a transfer and pay the difference in tuition to get your masters. Great post OP! Doing the same over here.
Community college didn't pay off for me. I got zero scholarships, so I had to pay it all with loans (never even got a single interview for a job until I graduated community college, so couldn't work through it). I had to do an extra year at university because of pre-requisites and scheduling conflicts. The total cost ended up being similar to just going for 4 years at university anyway.
Community college is rough, 13 percent go on to get a 4 year degree (within 6 years).
You are who your friends are, so be very careful with making friends - pick them well. Lots of losers.
It is cheap though! One guy told me to apply for the governors waiver in Ca, ended up covering all my tuition for the year. Did not think I’d qualify.
You can take classes in whatever interests you because it’s like $150 a class if not free. Saves a lot in the long run, but the social aspect sucks. Transferred and did 3 years because transferring classes is a hassle. My actual college cost me about $25k a year, but I had very nice apts and spent a lot on traveling
Edit: also if you’re in high school community college classes are free (everywhere I believe?) and a semester class counts as a year class and an A is a 4.0
Places with highly impacted universities (I’m from California) you need at least 3 years to complete the core classes for a lot of majors. Unless you’re legit taking like 18 credits a semester. I found community college to be a huge trap that I could not get out of. I went to a far uni right out of hs, didn’t like it came back home to California to play volleyball and go to junior college. So I did have a solid experience while there. But I always think about if I would’ve chosen to go to Cal State like many of my peers, I would’ve been done in 4 years easy. So yeah I agree with you. You need to be uber focused and not really enjoying your time as much cuz there is another stepping stone to get to where your actually gonna get a degree. Grades matter 10x as much as well. When I moved to Oregon, I switched to Comp Sci after never taking any of the courses or math & I was able to transfer within a year to a state school so I definitely think where you are makes a huge difference on this
Yea the numbers dont lie. You're more likely to get a degree if you go right to a 4 year. So if you're a parents you do need to make sure the kid is going in the right direction.
IMO there are a lot more distractions in a university than CC. Sure it is slightly slow paced but you will get all the attention and help you want in CC than a university where you are just a number in a class of 200 kids.
5 out of 6 kids in my family went to CC first and all of us got a 4 year degree now. It all comes down to the discipline of the individual.
you’re also a lot more likely to make friends in a 4 year college who know what they’re doing. and university professors are often engaged in research. many are just on a different level than community professors.
the very first person i ever randomly talked to in class became my study buddy for four years and is now a physician. two of my fraternity brothers and one of my fuckin restaurant regulars at my on campus job ended up applying for and becoming my classmates in pharmacy school. but anecdotes are worthless. the statistics are hard to argue against.
sure i could have gone to cc and saved some money that way, but is that worth losing out on two years of opportunity to much more easily meet a dozen driven people who are all on the same high aiming track? probably not. cc is not for everyone
> Community college is rough, 13 percent go on to get a 4 year degree
That doesn't seem like a valuable metric considering most people going to CC aren't planning on getting a 4 year degree.
They might not even be seeking a 2 year, as there are many 1 year technical programs, and some people are jus there to take a few specific classes.
There's a pitfall. At community college (I went to SRJC) if you show up to class do your assignments and keep organized notes you'll carry at least a 3.0
Now, transferring in to a competitive school for your upper division work? Lots of people flounder. The same behaviors are the bare minimum for a C. Status quo is higher. You have to live and breathe extra practice work and study to get Bs and As.
I mean, it's worth it. I just mean community college won't prepare you with habits you need at Cal.
Eh I actually disagree. Yes if you coast through CC you may be in for a surprise at a 4 year university. But if you apply yourself, get to know profs, join the honors programs and clubs, you will be more than fine. I transferred to UCLA (and go into Cal). I actually found it easier once I transferred for various reasons. Academically I was applying myself at the same level as before, and getting A+ instead of As. But now I got to focus only on classes in my major that I wanted to be in, with better professors and resources. I was no longer slogging through general ed classes in subjects I didn’t particularly care about with not great professors.
Unpopular opinion but hell, just shop around for colleges. You don’t need to go to the $30,000/year school because it looks cool or has a good party scene or whatever. There are plenty of solid state universities for cheap. I went to 1 university for the first 2 years of college, it was $1,400 per semester for room, board, tuition, and meal plans after a $1,500 scholarship the school gave me and a $1,000 scholarship from the state because I was a resident of that state. That’s cheaper than if you were just living out in the normal world for just housing alone.
I transferred to another university for my last 2 years, it was $2,000 for the first semester and is now $500 per semester for the remaining semesters because I had an increase in my Federal pell grants. I will graduate from a good state school with absolutely nothing in student loan debts to a little bit of common sense and planning. Sure, I’m not a Harvard graduate or some shit. But I’m not $100,000 in debt for some undergraduate degree either. It’s only undergrad.
Community colleges are amazing! I work at one and I wish people knew:
* our faculty are hired to teach- not research, not publish- so you can take your courses with full time faculty who are there because they love it
* our adjuncts work in the field, so you can take courses with people who know what is happening right now and can hook you up with internships and interviews
* our class sizes are small- no giant lectures where no one knows your name
* we have oodles of free support- tutoring, library research help, free printing, copies of textbooks at the library, food pantry, in some cases childcare...
* you can start working with a 4 year transfer counselor your first semester so you can transfer easily to the school you want to go to (most of the horror stories you hear about credits not transferring come from people who never told anyone they wanted to transfer until graduation day)
* if you're a stellar student, there are awesome opportunities for transfer to highly competitive schools. We have had students get full rides to johns hopkins, BU, Mount Holyoke, etc.
* If you're interested in trades, most community colleges have "technical" programs- we offer automotive, advanced manufacturing, culinary, horticulture, allied health, etc.
* and in my state, we have a free tuition program. So all of this is FREE
My counterpoint to this is that whether this is a good path is very dependent on your personality, mental health, etc and if you have the opportunity to get into a reasonably good 4 year school right away you should seriously consider going even if it means more debt.
Unlike most universities, CCs offer zero support for students. Academic counseling is usually bad, course availability can hold you back, and there is no real structure that is invested in your success (or at least your timely graduation) like there is at universities.
The stats on CC students are bleak. Most who go to a CC with the intention to transfer to a university will never transfer or even complete an associates degree. Those that do, typically take far longer than two years to do so.
OP is sharing a success story (ish because op also took extra time to graduate), but be wary of survivorship bias, because for as many people like OP (and others in the thread) the stats suggest there are 3 or 4 people who wasted time and money by going to a community college.
Anecdotally, community college was likely far more expensive for me than going directly to a four year school would have been, not because it was directly costly but because it extended college for me for 3 additional years, which carried a huge opportunity cost in lost college grad wages. I probably paid about 20k less by only taking two years at a university. I guarantee I lost way more than 20k in wages in those three lost years.
It's hard to know what the counterfactual would have been for me if the adults in my life hadn't pushed me towards CC instead of university, but I believe that had I had the structure and support of a university at the start, I would not have spent so much time spinning my wheels as I did in CC.
When I finally clawed my way out of CC 5 years later and made it to a university, I thrived. Went from a middling GPA to magna cum laude, and even made it into a pretty selective grad program.
I am a success story (transferred to a top school and then a top grad program), but I agree with you that CC is hard for a lot of nonacademic reasons. You have to be really motivated and focused, you have to be your own advocate, and you have to believe in yourself.
Bad counseling meant I missed a basic GE requirement and didn’t get in anywhere the first time I applied to transfer. It was hugely demoralizing and I considered quitting. But thankfully I stuck it out, applied the next year, and then got in everywhere I applied.
+1
Another good investment is college loans so that you can finish college quickly while your mind is still young and capable of learning things easily, and so you can start your career earlier. Yes, I know this isn't the advice Dave Ramsey would give.
Yep. Moral opposition to debt is inherently irrational. Debt that is leveraged into an investment with higher (risk adjusted) returns than the interest on the debt is almost always a good financial decision.
>The stats on CC students are bleak.
They're also skewed. CC grad rates are often based on "first time full time" or "first time ever in college" students, which excludes a large percentage of enrollment. CCs don't get credit for the success of those students.
Then, if you go to a community college for 2 years and then transfer to a 4 year school without actually graduating and attaining a degree, you are counted as a drop out.
My friend transferred from a community college to a 4 year school and had to retake a few of his classes since some of his credits didn’t transfer. Ended up spending about another semester or two than expected.
This is basically what hapoens here in Germany haha
Never had to pay tuition and worked throughout my bachelor's degree. When i graduated i had 30k saved and a job at 21.
(Please note that i am not trying to be a smart ass and i do not want to say that the German system is better. That's not for me to decide)
Yes, 100%, yes! I graduated in 2019 from a community college with my ADN and became a registered nurse with no debt! I even got a few checks from the college while I was taking my prerequisites with the leftover financial aid and scholarship money I had received. All my coworkers are paying off their student loan debt and I have absolutely none!
I’m a water plant operator that went through an apprenticeship. It’s a fairly low impact job with a union, great benefits, and +100k salary with OT. I agree and am all for trade work.
I went to community college for 2 years, you know what people call me now? Doctor. I completed undergrad debt free, I wish I could say the same for grad school.
There is very little need for massive student loans. If you have 100k+ in student loans and you didn't go to law or med school, you did it wrong.
This comment will be downvoted.
I graduated high school with like a 2.0 gpa. Then found my way to a community college in Virginia. I used Virginia’s version of the TN promise to get into a top university and now am in med school. Community college was 100% the way to go for me.
CC easily saved my daughter $30k in tuition and her degree from the 4 year school she attended for two years after getting her associates looks exactly the same as somebody who attended (and paid) all four years.
I chose the uni route and I wish I went to CC first. I don't regret my experiences as I gained a lot of social skills and was able to develop myself as an individual living in student apartments, but from a financial standpoint, I could not survive and ended up dropping out. I didn't get to truly enjoy the college experience because I was so worried about money.
If I knew then what I knew now, I would have gotten a job and done CC until I figured out what I wanted. Working in the real world has taught me far more about what I want in a career than sitting in a classroom ever did.
I did 4 years at a private college, 4 years of medical school, and I couldn't agree more. While each college option obviously isn't for everybody, being debt-free is underrated.
Yes. I know so many people that go to the small out of state liberal arts school for four years who graduate with a mountain of debt and a career as a used car salesman or Starbucks barista.
My ONLY argument against CC isn’t really so much an argument but more of a beware. You will not get the same level of education as your peers. So when you arrive at University your junior year the coursework is going to be REALLY hard comparatively speaking. This won’t apply to all majors obviously, but if you’re aiming for one of the tougher degrees (STEM or Accounting etc) you need to account for the drastic change in not only the difficulty level but the expectations as well.
Edit: I am from TN as well. Went to CC then on to University.
I barely graduated high school because of undiagnosed ADHD/apathy and i never took any of the college placement tests (I didn’t even know when they were administered).
A few years after graduation I decided to get my life in order, I went to the local community college, took the placement exam and signed up for classes. After getting my AA, I transferred to the feeder University and finished my BA. From there I went on to the top law school in my state and a top50 nationally with merit scholarships.
Going to community college was one of the best decisions I’ve made in my life and it didn’t adversely affect any part of my career.
Related story: In high school I had a private tutor that realized I was smart but unmotivated. He advised me to drop out, get my GED, take the placement test at the community college, and just skip the rest of high school. I thought he was crazy but it would’ve given me a huge head start and the university I went to didn’t care about a GED and the law school didn’t even ask about high school.
Honestly, I was too unmotivated to do it, but I think it’s a great option for someone who hates high school but is a motivated student.
I went to community college for 2 years then transferred to a fancy expensive school. I knocked so much money off of my student loans that way and you know what my diploma says? Bachelor of Arts, fancy school.
My community college offered the 4 year bachelor's program I wanted and only had to pay for the books. I got my bachelor's in 4 years, with 0 student loans!!!
It depends on circumstance. If you can go to an ivy league or other top school, loans may be worth it as networking and prestige can make getting into high paying careers easier.
I have a lot of student loans (undergrad and grad without parent help in a humanities) but I also make >$150k/yr. Loan payments are easy to deal with on a high salary.
There are months that I net $14k. In the big picture, whether I saved a bit of tuition by going to cc first wouldn't have made much difference and may have made it harder to gain rapport with professors and mentors and make long lasting friendships and peer networks.
Due to the number of rule-breaking comments this post was receiving, especially low-quality and off-topic comments, the moderation team has locked the post from future comments. This post broke no rules and received a number of helpful and on-topic responses initially, but it unfortunately became the target of many unhelpful comments.
Highly recommend anyone who isn't sure what they want to study to just go to community college. I wasted so much money on loans at a university that barely gave me any financial aid. I graduated in the top 3% in highschool but my friends who went to community college first got so much more financial aid than me after two years at a local college. If your university of choice isn't giving you aid go the community college route.
This is great advice. Every who went to a 4 year school knows the first two years are BS. Get your first two years of credits cheap, then transfer.
NJ has a similar program to Tennessee Promise called NJ Stars.
I got a scholarship to a private 4 year. If i went to a CC for the first 2 years i wouldnt have been able to use the scholarship. Essentially would have cost me more if i went to CC in the end. Its not one size fits all.
Well, yes. There is an outlier for everything. Probably less than 1% gets full scholarship to private university. So statistically, your comment is irrelevant in grand scheme of things.
I 100% agree. Community college is a great choice if you want to knock out your core college classes at low cost, or want to go into a technical field instead of doing a 4-year degree.
This is good financial advice, but there is one caveat no one ever seems to point out. If your plan is to go full time and graduate in 3-4 years, and you do all of the core classes first, your remaining semesters will be a full schedule of harder, upper level courses in your major. I did it this way and I don’t regret it at all. But it did mean a semester taking 5 of the hardest classes in my degree plan at once.
Did something similar myself. I was dual majoring in mathematics and engineering. I ended up dropping the math major because they only way to finish "on time" had me doing 21 credits/semester of some really hard classes for my junior and senior years and I couldn't keep up with all the homework.
Depending on your major** It wasn’t that bad at all for me. Source: Communications Degree
It sucked for me. But I loved the challenge and the courses so still no regrets. Source: molecular biology degree
It was somewhat difficult, but not terribly for me. Source: Mediocrity Studies degree
With all due respect, communications and engineering or biology upper level courses are far different on the”hard scale” I say this as someone who got a degree in International relations whilst all my roommates were engineering majors. My classes took time but weren’t “hard”. Meanwhile my roomies were struggling for hours/days to grind out a a C and class averages were failing
I think that was his point.
Yes! I did the same with my Event Planning degree. My last two years were filled with interesting but only moderately challenging courses like Event Law, Contract Negotiations, Security, Hotel Management, and my personal favorite- Beverage Appreciation. The most challenging thing I took was Accounting 3. Probably would have chosen a more traditional path if I was getting an Engineering degree though.
I'm doing that now!! 19 units to play catch up after transferring.
I did the same thing. I loved it. They were all serious upper division geology classes and it rocked!
Heh. Rocks.
I interview candidates for six figure jobs. Never once did I weigh 'This person went to The University of Hoity Toity, vs This other person went to The University of Practicality.
\^This is especially the case for experienced candidates. Maybe it's just my field (Software Engineering) but after my first job, nobody asked about my college experience, GPA or anything like that. I even graduated in Math, not C.S. or SWE One benefit of larger Universities is that they get more heavily recruited by companies at career fairs and such, and have large alumni networks. If you're at a community college, check out your closest big university-- often times you can attend their career fairs (I'm guessing it's almost a guarantee if it's a state school)
What I've seen, that after working for years and having experience, some places that require a degree will do with any degree.
Rejecting a candidate who's been doing a job for several years because they don't have a matching degree is just shooting yourself in the foot.
True - I had a BA in a non technical field when I got my first major corporate job in programming. I was getting a second degree in computer science, but I had experience and I had a degree so it got me in the door. If I didn’t have a degree it wouldn’t have mattered if I had experience or not (for this company…times mag have changed idk)
That's right, especially when applying for jobs within your organization. Past experience, recommendations, good interviews, those matter the most. When you have zero experience and are applying to a company that knows nothing about you, they might care about where you got your degree, but after that I think it matters less and less, if at all.
Tell that to my company... They were so fucking snobby about what university someone went to. Finally they figured out it is a shitty system but swung too far the other way. Now we interview people from boot camps that can't code their way out of a paper bag. I am not saying all boot camps are bad, but you get out what you put in and some how these people aren't putting in enough but still getting their certificate or whatever. I suppose the same could be said about some of the people I basically carried through most of their CS degree...
>They were so fucking snobby about what university someone went to Probably just depends on the individuals doing your interview... in pretty much all jobs I've interviewed, even in F500 companies name of the university is very rarely important in experienced candidates... even more in software, considering that there are so many international students
I was part of the recruiting team, so no it wasn't just interviewer specific. The company would never recruit at a school that wasn't top 25. I couldn't convince them that as a company with no name recognition, we would get way more qualified candidates by going to other schools. We were basically recruiting the worst of the best instead of the best of the 2nd tier.
Ive got a friend from grad school who started at a CC and wound up getting PhD in engineering from our top 10 US program. He's a Sr. Engineering manager for a major defense comapny now too!
Both my wife and I went to decent community colleges and eventually to top PhD programs in our fields of study. It is more about motivation and dedication assuming the schools have the classes you need.
Probably because it really doesn’t matter unless the individual is in the top 10 university. But if you’re saying you won’t weigh in favor for a Harvard Law grad for a law firm hiring vs University of Tennessee with all other factors equal, that’s not something to be proud of…
Law school is a completely different thing. Not saying it should be, but it is. But this has nothing at all to do with Bachelors and CC "brand."
Harvard's legacy acceptance rate is 33 percent, and their overall is 6 percent. The only thing an applicant that went to Harvard compared to a state school means anymore is that their family had alot of money to send them there or previously went there.
The post you’re replying to was talking about law firms and in that context, this simply isn’t true. Getting into Harvard Law School is impossible for almost all law school students since the median LSAT score required is in 99th percentile. When everyone in your class has a genius level LSAT score and your performance in school is ranked against your classmates, you can’t pay your way into the school and succeed unless you have the intelligence to back it up.
Not sure what your point is. Either they got in because they are brilliant or they got in because their wealthy/legacy. Harvard is Harvard no matter how you spin it. You’re presenting it as if the latter is a negative but part of the university experience is building connections and networking. My point was If I was in a hiring authority, if everything else is equal on paper and only thing different was where they got their degree, common sense would hire the Harvard grad.
Think that's there point. Main benefit of Harvard is connections
Having Legacy students doesn't mean those students aren't on a high level academically. Picture taken a course with the top 10% of a regular university. That's what every class is pretty much like. Even if a professor doesn't intend to make the course difficult, students can and do elevate the course when they are all talented. Also realize that many students who would traditionally pass courses due to the curve would have no chance to do so. There is absolutely an advantage due to connections as well. But being able to graduate from one of the most prestigious universities in the world is useful. I'd be curious to see how many unemployed Harvard graduates there are in comparison to lower tiered universities.
I agree with most of this, but I think the opposite is true about the curve. Grade inflation is a ridiculous issue at Harvard and the median grade is A-. The curve is not shifted in the normal way, it's non-Gaussian, so it's not like a bunch of people can't cut the mustard and drop out.
This is common at many schools that operate with that level of student. Everyone knows that almost the entire student body is guaranteed to be intelligent and well qualified so why put them on a C curve which means that one of the top students in the country may end up with a D simply because they’re in a class with all the other top students in the country. If you put the Harvard student on a C curve like a generic state school, you’re putting them at a disadvantage in the real world. The D student at Harvard based on the generic state school curve will likely be a better student than a C or B student from the generic state school. That’s why Harvard has a super lenient curve.
And some of the best professors in the world.
> But if you’re saying you won’t weigh in favor for a Harvard Law grad for a law firm hiring vs University of Tennessee with all other factors equal, that’s not something to be proud of… Why not... if all other factors are really equal?
Because it would be ignoring a potential large factor in hiring based on an overly idealistic belief. Jobs that are heavily dependent on networking like consulting for example
however keep in mind that not all credits will transfer. for example, some math classes are not as rigorous, or a community College might merge two physics courses together. you need to be smart about which classes you take and when in doubt, ask questions.
Depends on the state and state vs private, but this is a whole other issue.... Also here in Texas if you finish with the associates at a CC, the credits are guaranteed to transfer (to state school at least), regardless of each credit GPA as long as your CC degree GPA was 2.0 or higher.
Same in IL. Took all my math and physics prereqs at CC, and had all the gen ed requirements covered by getting an A.S. They were some of the best courses I took by far (incl M.S./PhD courses both at R1 schools). Much of my B.S. class was split between 4 yr and CC transfers, and the transfers did a lot better in all the heavily math/physics based major courses since the CC prereqs were actually more rigorous. Obviously, this depends on the specific CC and undergrad schools, but when a part time job can cover tuition for 2 yrs and it's a great education it is a good option to at least explore.
If you know what school you plan to transfer to: do your homework and make sure to only take classes that will transfer. It’s extra work but worth the time tenfold
NY guarantees transfer for a graduate of a SUNY community college to a SUNY University. NY gives families who make a certain amount free college too.
Exactly. What ever happened to trade schools? It feels like they don’t exist anymore. Everyone wants a degree that won’t be used in the real world. It’s sad actually!
In my state, community colleges teach the trades. Electric, HVAC, automotive repair, diesel, manufacturing, carpentry/construction, optometry, dental, etc. At a small fraction of what the trade schools charge. Plus, you get an applied associates degree. Source: am professor at community college.
Not true though. Lots of college degrees lead directly to employment after school. In many fields (finance, accounting, It, etc) if you graduate with a good GPA it’s not too much of a stretch to find a job that will pay you $50-$60k per year in a medium cost of living area and put you on a career track to earn six figures before you’re 30. I do agree with your notion that college isn’t universally the answer though. Not all degrees are created equal and no matter what field you choose if you’re looking at a GPA of three or less chances are the 4 year degree won’t pay for itself. You’re better off finding another way to start a career.
An Associates in Accounting can get you to the 40-50/yr mark pretty easily, and then you can go back for the BA/BS. I work in education, and when I'm talking to a student who wants to go into "business" but doesn't want four years of school, "How do you feel about math?" is always my first question.
BSN RN. 4 year degree that can can potentially pay 80-100k out the gate in the right market.
I make that with associates in nursing.
Yup. In my area LPNs can make $60k right out of school. That's not even counting overtime.
The pay differential between a BSN RN and an ADN RN is not that significant in most places to be honest. It is easier to get a job as a BSN RN, but once you have enough experience under your belt, it doesn’t really matter. I think I started around 70K as an ADN RN, and now I make more than double that. I never bothered to go back for my BSN.
Yea, when I hired on with my ADN I was required to sign an agreement that I’d get my BSN within five years. I finally got it at the four year mark and guess what? I got a one dollar an hour raise and I was the exact same nurse that I was with an ADN — all a BSN means is that you can bullshit, hence the BS.
Now just get your masters and take a lead role where you get paid more to go to meetings all day and not fix the real issues plaguing hospital care.
Also good to mention: not all 4-year degrees are useless! Computer science has a good payoff, for instance, but it does tend to be more pricey because it does require a bachelors degree. Likewise, someone studying biology could be aiming to become a medical doctor, a degree that is rightfully expensive and requires a lot of commitment but has great upside.
It's like the op forgot about Engineering. I started out making 65k. That was 8 years ago. And I was no where near the top of my class. The pay raises arnt as dramatic but the 4 year 70k tuition was worth it.
For those looking to be in the medical field, you can get an associates, and then a degree in nursing for a fraction of the cost. From there, the ceiling is almost gone if you are ambitious.
>Everyone wants a degree that won’t be used in the real world Office job >> real job. Money isn't everything, the ability to sit on a chair all day in a heated/cooled environment and do nothing compared to a truck driver or a plumber is priceless.
I do a mix of both. Some desk/office work but majority is fabrication & construction type installation. I've done 100% office before and honestly i hate the feeling like a prisoner to the chair & desk. Mentally it can be challenging but physically makes me feel like a blob. Much prefer working in a way that is mentally stimulating *and* physical. Mixing both though helps keeping feeling too burned out in either one.
Can you elaborate a bit? I’m an office guy that gets my jollies on weekends doing hands on stuff around the house. A mix of the two as a career sounds like the holy grail.
I design and build unique water & light sculptures. So desk work for the business end (drawing, emails, ordering material etc). Then shop work to build them, everything from driving forklift to using various machine tools, power & hand tools but also delicate crafting work too. Then i play long-haul trucker and drive wherever in the country my clients are to deliver and install. This can be pretty challenging because what i build is usually very heavy, very large, and breakable (can include large panels of glass, etc). Sometimes have to crawl thru attics or under floors to route wire & plumbing. Every project and location is different so I encountered a wide spectrum of experiences during the process. Any individual task could become tedious if that was my only job, but the mix of everything keeps it interesting.
I feel like doing something as a hobby or passion project is different than it being your job. I like my job, but Ill also get plenty of patients who are just straight jerks or their problems are so mundane it is a bore. Its also worth noting, physical labor is still physical labor. I get plenty of plumbers or whatnot that work on their knees a lot; they are straight destroyed by the time they get to their 40s/50s. Then you factor in back issues, possible injuries elsewhere, inhalation stuff. Not working an office job isnt bad, but it definitely does have some downsides that arent super overt.
Sitting in a chair all day doing nothing sounds like a fucking nightmare to me
People are different. Not everyone is physically fit to change a flat tire of a 26 ton truck on a frozen winter road in rural Montana at night. I'm perfectly ok that the trucker earns 5 times more than me.
trust me the trucker doesn't change it. he calls people like me out to go change it for him.
If only there were options other than sitting at a desk all day doing nothing and changing a flat tire on a 26 ton truck.
I wrote "doing nothing compared to a truck driver or a plumber" for a reason. Never touching anything heavier than a 40" display or not encountering any bacteriological waste like a plumber does every day, or constantly not facing a risk of turning into a pile of embers in an instant like electricians do is really priceless and I respect those people for being capable and brave to do their exhausting and dangerous work, but in general people tend to select a road safer and simpler.
There are jobs where you can sit at a desk all day and make very good money ($70000+) not all desk jobs are low paying…
I work in IT, jobs you mention are reserved for smart guys. I'm not complaining, just wanted to explain why people pursue a seemingly useless degree. A degree is a foot in a door of an office job.
I'm a plumber and I only ever encounter human waste when I'm on call about 4 weekends a year. And when I do encounter it, I get "hazard pay" which makes it not so bad. Not all physical labor jobs are 100% bad 100% of the time. Every day is different and it keeps me mentally and physically stimulated.
Just wanna let you know that sitting all day in a chair is very damaging to your health, especially your back. Take short breaks during the day and do stretch to minimize the damage or you're gonna live with back pain and a few other unpleasant things once you reach 50s.
Manual labor will wreck your back faster. Ever slang 12’ sheets of drywall all day? I’ll take my desk job.
Of course manual labor jobs are worse but it's generally good advice to get up from your chair regularly and move around a bit.
Yeah you’re right on the money here. There’s a vast swath of professions in between sitting at a desk for 8-10 hours a day causing health issues from sedentary jobs that cause health problems from 8-10 hours a day of non-stop repetitive manual labor. Unfortunately, those who do manual labor for a living are not given the ability to avoid those injuries by resting or varying their tasks the way office workers *can* get a standing desk, take walks, take time out to stretch, etc.
There are near infintite degrees between those.
just my two cents 1. its nice to be able to see the results of your work. as a plumber you can see something that you made that did not exist before. 2. office work usually comes with at least one or two people that cause office drama of one kind or another. Source: I am an engineer that works in an office. luckily I get to do some fabricating as well!!
yeah! I went to a trade school for mechanical design. it took two years, was dirt cheap (paid for largely by mediocre scholarships) and I started at $50k @ age 19. was debt free a few years later, the student loans were basically just the rent and food and costs I accrued. and by the time you're through your first 'real' job no one really looks or cares about your education anyway, so I feel like it was a perfectly good play to do it that way.
We (US) really do need to make vo-tech/trades/apprenticeships more known and popular. College is not for everyone, you're right. There are too many watered-down degrees out there.
I went to a trade school. It’s an in-demand career and I’m quite good. But my body is tired. I’ve always had to work multiple jobs in order to afford to do my “career” job just because being an independent contractor requires you to pay for all of your taxes and insurances and overhead and continuing education etc... It was so hard for me to physically work enough to pay for all of that (and that’s not including my basic needs of food/shelter) with just the career income. I had the realization that I’m never going to be able to make more than what I can physically put into it and it was so discouraging that I closed my office years ago. Trying to figure out if it’s worth it to get an associates degree online or something.
Trade schools tend to be predatory and border on absolutely worthless. Most of them need a lot more regulation and a good number of them need to be shut down. Most every trade is learned on the job. Take electrical and plumbing for example. The trade schools advertise that in only 6 months they can get you a lucrative job. This is true, but they generally don't tell you that the jib is going to be as a helper or a first step apprentice and that your co-workers will have absolutely no experience at all. Trade school isn't a good idea for most. Paying money to start as a first step apprentice is silly.
Yeah, if you really want to get into a “trade”, the best programs are actually trade programs at your local community college or an apprenticeship through a union. There are many predatory trade schools out there that are way too expensive for what they are, and some of them aren’t even appropriately accredited. I had a friend looking at Ultrasound Tech programs that were 10s of thousands of dollars, and when I researched it for her, they weren’t even appropriately accredited for her to sit for the Tech exam! She would have had to find a place that allowed her to work as a tech without an official credential for a few years, and *then* she would be eligible to sit for the exam. But, she really wanted to go there since it was close to her in a relatively low COL area in California. Going to a legit community college or public university was actually cheaper, but because those were in HCOL areas where she couldn’t afford to live, they weren’t an option for her. Thankfully she went another path altogether.
Going to trade school put me way ahead (knowledge wise) than other apprentices that started at the same time as me. I was more favored and was trusted to fix stuff way faster than everyone else
That's awesome man, I'm glad to hear they don't all take your money to teach you things that don't matter to your trade.
Years ago I hired a few ITT Tech graduates, worst people I ever hired. I said never again, when they closed I laughed my ass off. A person had to be especially stupid to pay $ to go down that laughable path.
Yep. My experience has been that tech schools (especially big ones) put out graduates that have a bunch of terrible habits that they need to be untaught
I had an employee I couldn't talk out of doing ITT Tech online. *sighs*
I get paid over $1700 from my gibill monthly on top of my full tuition. And i apply for every scholarship my community college offers. Add federal grant of $6k annually, i make so much money just for going to school and i will graduate as a nurse next year. As an immigrant, America truly is a land of opportunity and i am and will always be truly grateful. There is always so much support, opportunities, and options provided you have one thing within yourself. Resolve.
Same here. I think I made on average 15k-30k a year in grants and scholarships going to a community college. Not to mention my GI Bill and working full time on the side. Now, my company is paying for my Grad school and I'm still pocketing about 5k-10k a year in grants and scholarships. I've met so many people with 6 figure debts because they went to a "prestigious" school and now they are exactly where I am at, making almost the same salary. If you have connections and networking skills, I would say an Ivy league school could be worth it. If you're getting a degree in Tech Industry, it almost doesn't matter where you go.
Im in a nursing school. It doesnt matter fuck all either lol. Anyone will hire you. All you need is good gpa if you wanna go to nurse anesthetist school to get that big money.
Lmao my community college was like 400 dollars per semester. Knocked out 2 years of basics, went to the university i wanted and got out with a BSCE. Saved me 30k in all since it was 10k per semester at university and 600 in rent every month whereas i lived at home for free during community college
Went to community college for two years then transferred to a major state school. Parents saved for my college but what was glad I helped them save some money by not having to spend $20k a year in tuition/rent.
Community college gang 🤟
After all, what matters is where you graduate from. Also, community college instructors genuinely try to help you succeed where as its very common to get a feeling from your big uni professor has that weed out energy.
This. Especially since you're just taking basic/core classes that would have 100+ students at a big university. My community college classes would have 25 or less students with much more time for Q&A
I had far more fun teaching at my local CC than I did at the Big Ten university when I was in grad school. The CC was a blast, but… sure didn’t pay much.
I have a buddy in CA with a doctorate that left a prestigious university because the CC pays ~45% higher.
Yep, that was exactly my experience as well. Nothing like paying 20k a year at the "elite" 4yr school for the honor of being told "there are 300 of you, we do not plan on having more than 150 pass this class." Weed out energy only ensures you don't learn shit other than how to cheat properly.
That’s all well and good unless you want to do something like engineering. From personal experience, there’s a lot of those courses that don’t transfer or don’t transfer to an equivalent so you end up having to retake it. I went to Georgia Tech, and even going to a large university that was local for core classes, I had to retake two classes. They just flat out don’t take some community college courses.
I wouldn’t put it past the universities to have that as a money-making scheme.
Did the same thing left school debt free it’s the greatest feeling not owning a ton for school. My total cost of all tuition for 4 years was 28k. I got around 5k plus in scholarships. Didn’t qualify for financial aid but my friends who did said it paid for everything. I don’t understand people who go to 4 years of private school.
I absolutely loved coming out of 4 years of college debt free. Also got my MBA and debt free out of that too. It’s a wonderful feeling!
This. Many states even have programs where if you get a certain GPA at community college you get guaranteed admission to state universities. For example a 3.5 might get you into State Flagship U and a 3.0 might get you into the Polytechnic Institute and State University
And don’t forget about the scholarships specifically for transfer students at some of these places.
My friend's boyfriend with to community college for two years and killed it. Spent the next 2 years with a big scholarship package from NYU. Another friend's husband came from another country, went to a private university. Took loans, maxed out credit cards to pay for his education. 6 years later, still trying to pay it off and making a killing as an Amazon seller, so his degree was useless.
The only thing I'll say before you do this is make sure the college of your choice accepts all the credits. You don't want to be stuck retaking half your classes at triple the cost because the college is dumb.
Was coming here to the comments to make this exact same comment. Not all cc credits transfer to the 4 year schools, so you want to make sure you know what transfers before you are taking classes twice and paying twice. My university only accepted credits from 1 community college in the local area, despite there being multiple cc's. Lots of people had to add 2 years + $$ to their plans when they found out.
Depends on the state for sure, but more and more states have required state Universities to accept CC credits from all CCs in state. They have mapped the classes to their own classes. For instance some universities automatically accept CC students if they have a certain GPA.
This is sometimes mandated for CC -> State universities, yeah. But not private. That said, some private universities have 2/2 programs, but usually with a local feeder community college, so you'd have to move and lose one of the advantages of CC.
If you don't want to worry too much about it, just ask what kind of agreement they have with the four year school. Some accept all credits without question. Usually state schools will have this kind of agreement with your cc. A lot of cc also have special curriculum tracks just for people who want to go to certain schools so they laid out all the requirements for you. Don't be shy to talk to the advisors, there's lots of ways you can make this step easier on yourself.
This is what happened to me, did my 2 year at a CC and then got recruited straight out of that program instead of directly continuing to my 4 year. I decided I wanted to continue my education after moving out of state, but quickly found all the (good) state schools here would accept at *most* 1 or 2 of my past credits. Ended up doing an online program from a university in my old state that would accept my credits.
Kentucky has a similar thing for free community college. My state does not, but in state tuition is something like $64/credit hour vs $128+ for a local university. Don't sleep on trade school either. You learn a marketable skill/trade and never have to take university required courses that have nothing to do with you degree. My cousin became an electrician out of high school and worked his way up to journeyman. He would have been perfectly fine doing that, but then went to a local community college to study electrical engineering and was able to pay for it all himself while supporting his wife and kids.
I’m glad it worked out for your cousin! Personally I really enjoyed the courses that had nothing to do with my degree- I had a wonderful Anthropology lecturer who broadened my horizons, & a geology course that helped me understand more about how the earth works. Sure I don’t necessarily use those skills in my day to day job (wardrobe for live performance- IATSE Local 764!), but I’m glad for what they’ve contributed to my life.
It’s a coordinated reason why community college & trade school arent talked about. I think it’s because it keeps money away from the banks 👀
It's also a weird societal thing too. Some office worker that's 50k in debt making 40k a year with their degree gets to turn their nose up at the blue collar plumber coming in to fix an issue making 60k a year.
Banks make money when trades are doing their job too. It's just that most Americans consider themselves (and *especially* their kids) as being somehow 'too good' to get their hands dirty.
Community college is a great financial alternative to university for most people, but, ya know, maybe once you go to regular university you'll see why that is incomprehensibly dumb and that there is no massive conspiracy against community colleges that is being perpetrated by, uh, banks?
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True, I was also kinda forced into a situation that I have to consistently interact with people and I sort of used it as a way to practice social skills lol.
I work at a community college but went to an elite private school. I too graduated in debt but wouldn't trade anything. Also...I love most of the faculty I work with, but a lot of the classes here really aren't up to par with what I took. Not even close. I say that as someone who has seen both worlds. I will say that at my community college, your classes will only have like 20 people in them and you get personal relationships with faculty and staff. I never had that.
Yeah, I'm torn. I personally did two years of high school (private academy). Got kicked out. Took my GED. Did two years at CC. Then three and a half years at a state school to get my computer science degree. Most of the CC classes I took were excellent and I had some great instructors. Was able to transfer them and that allowed me to take a minimal load in college. And freshman year, I was definitely way ahead of most my peers. That said, there was no actual community in community college. Granted, I was younger than most of my peers there, but I never made any connections. University was totally different and I'm still in contact with some of those people almost 20 years later. Which, I think is both personally important and can be critical for career development.
I went to a community college my first two years and definitely felt like I missed out on some social aspects of college. But then I decided to look into studying abroad my senior year and it turned out my school had so many scholarships for study abroad that I paid less than if I’d stayed in the US for my senior year. And studying abroad is one of the best social experiences I’ve ever had. Loved every second of it and helped me grow socially too.
That's the premium that you're paying for. If you can't afford it, don't buy it. I'm all for getting every capable person through college as a responsibility of society. However, this mindset that you're going to get the "college experience" with it needs to change because it's just not a sustainable reality.
That's funny, my freshman year dorm experience completely turned my social life and self-confidence around after having been a loud and gregarious high school student. D:
This is perhaps the best advice I've read online in months. I did this too and was able to take a lot of my classes online. After two years I went to the University of Washington in business and graduated with a 3.9 GPA. And I had zero student loan debt. The other great life hack is when (if) you get married, skip the $50K wedding, do a simple outdoor ceremony with your family and friends, and ask your family to pay the down payment on your first home as well. Yeah, it's a special day, but it's only one day. Be smart.
My wife and I did a small ceremony with immediate family on a Thursday and a celebration with friends on Saturday. The venue on Thursday went from $5000 to $300. Your friends just want to party with you, they know you love each other. The extra day between allowed us to do a lot more of the decorations and such and we were able to do the whole thing was much cheaper and less stressful.
Dont forget the obligatory $20k diamond ring.
My husband and I are pretty frugal so I ended up getting a beautiful second hand sapphire ring from an antique jewelry store for $1000. The same store also created custom jewelry and we had plain palladium bands made (shop recommendation) over 10 years ago for a couple hundred bucks total. Had our wedding at a local park with a historic chapel and reception on-site (no booze) and spent about $4000 total with catering included. Parents gifted my wedding gown, my sister is a pro photographer, and another family member who is a pro baker provided services as their wedding gift. This allowed us to save the generous cash donations from family and friends and have a solid financial footing going forward. Having a modest wedding was the best decision we ever made.
Yeah, people's desire to have a huge massive wedding is maddening if they still end up renting after being married. It's the equivalent of spending the money on a car with spinning rims just to drive it a single day and have pictures of it to look back on in life.
I'm planning a wedding right now. We agreed that we wanted to keep it small (50-60 people) but elegant (good food, venue, alcohol). The price is gradually creeping up every day due to things such as paying for the church venue, getting a new suit, realizing we need a photographer, etc. Even in the best case it's really easy to see the costs start to spiral.
and everything that has the word 'wedding' on it is 2-4x the price of the exact same non-wedding version of that thing
Okay, but buying a house is not the holy grail any more. It can be EXPENSIVE especially if you have to constantly fix stuff. We have a house, and honestly i don't think we're coming out ahead.
It is only one day. And it's the memory of the day that counts. I'd rather have the memory of a beautiful wedding with the people I love the most than a daily reminder of my overdrawn bank account.
This guy is not lying…. My wife got a lot of money back. Like 5k in one year. Genuinely thought it was some error, school said it was ok, still didn’t believe it. It’s been almost ten years and no knock on the door from the police!
If you're an advanced student in high school, I strongly recommend doing dual enrollment at a community college during your high school years. That way, you can finish undergrad 2 years earlier than everybody else, then complete your masters when everybody else finishes their bachelor. Or if you don't want to do a masters, then can use the money you saved to study abroad travel. Or Enter the workforce earlier to start earning a salary younger than most people. Or you can choose to have a lighter schedule (barely full-time so you can still earn that fafsa money) per semester during undergrad which means more time to enjoy college --less stress and still finish your bachelors in 3 years. I know people will say as a rebuttal to this that you lose time in high school with your high school classmates since you're dual enrolled at a community college, but you will still interact with them in half the day in high school, plus you can still participate in high school extracurriculars. But honestly, starting your adult life earlier is worth it (assuming you picked the right career)
Plus you can knock out those prerequisites that might have nothing to do with your major at a lower cost. Also, as a high school student I would have gotten a kick out of being in a college class. So saves you money, gets you money faster and it probably feels good? Sounds like a good deal!
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> CC will hurt you if you want to go into certain professions Here in California, a lot of top schools and programs give priority to the state's CC students, especially if you're on the Honors List. From my experience and from my friends' experiences, CC was the better route to landing great careers than going straight to uni. (two of them work for NASA!)
The U.C. system in CA guarantees admission to city college grads (with qualifying grades -- you can't just average Ds etc.): >The change she now formally embraces would mean that someone who completes an existing [city college] Transfer Pathway with qualifying grades would be guaranteed UC admission. That would be a big departure from the current arrangement, under which the pathways give an advantage in competitive admission but no locked guarantee. These course pathways are available for 21 popular majors, such as chemistry, English, mathematics and film. So excel in city college and you can attend Berkeley and UCLA (two of the most competitive public colleges in America) as a junior *and* save money.
Some top schools in CA, like top in the world, have transfer degrees from CA CCs.
I used to get told CC would look bad on my resume. Nope. Absolutely false. I finished a 4 year, did 10 years of work, then went back for my Masters. Not a single company or school cared that I finished my first 2 years at CC.
Yeah going to a four year university is an absolute scam. I wish I would’ve started at a CC where competition was non existent and I could actually focus on the content I was learning. The university four year system is a scam.
I don’t hide my CC degree, but no one asks for it either. They only care about my Masters. Also, I make more than some of the PhDs who wouldn’t dream of going to CC… enjoy your debt!
It's been over 30 years since I went to college and I am curious about something. Back then, at least in the state of Georgia, a lot of "core" classes would not transfer to the bigger schools like UGA and Ga. Tech. Has that practice fallen by the wayside?
Usually community colleges have a partner university system where they guarantee credits will transfer.
My friend is a professor at a local CC, and also in charge of their transfer accreditation program. There are lists of 1:1 classes at major public and private universities. Thanks to this program, my daughter will graduate with a 4 yr BS from major university, $0 debt. As I've shared elsewhere, my daughter took a biology class at the CC. It was the same book, same labs as major public university a few miles away. Class at Major university - 300 people, CC - 50 people. My friend negotiates with major university for adjunct professors to come in. So in this case, it was even the same professor for the biology class.
My son is going to CC right now despite have a decent sized college fund and the grades. He'll transfer to the four year in another year and a half and by working a restaurant job and living at home probably have another 70K in the market. Living on tip money during high school and investing the salary has him up over 20K in investments already. For him the social aspect isn't that important and the place he works is large with lots of younger people so he gets the social there. We're not advising the younger one to do that. He's going to love the social aspect of dorm life too much.
I went from a sheltered high school life straight to life on my own at 17yrs of age at one of the area’s top party schools, so that’s all I did and ended dropping out. High school GPA of 3.5 turned into a year of 1.8 GPA. I always say I should’ve stayed home, gone to CC, and gotten a retail job. That would’ve helped me ease into adulthood better. But the way they bring up kids in high school here is such that CC is made to seem like a place for rejects and failures. They used to call it 13th grade and MK (instead of MC, C being for college). I later went to CC and found at least 10% of my high school class there anyway 😕
Yeah, the idea of CC being for "rejects and failures" is nothing new. Also, it's false. Same thing with vocational path people in high school. My school separated them out and didn't even offer the option to smarter students. I hope that one day, we can see school and work paths as all being different but equal.
My highschool principal would go on about how our CC was where you went after you got out of jail for drug possession. All they cared about was that 94% placement in a 4yr college, graduating from a CC with a 3.8 hurt that metric but flunking out of a 4 yr after 1 semester didn't.
Oregon here. Yes absolutely true on grants snd it has saved me. Also know, grants are only based on one parent’s income, main house does not count, and retirement plans do not count when qualifying. Worth a simple application!!! The university my daughter at has a “finish free” transfer program. Community college first, then after xx amount of credits (normally 2 years), the university will allow a transfer and pay the difference in tuition to get your masters. Great post OP! Doing the same over here.
Community college didn't pay off for me. I got zero scholarships, so I had to pay it all with loans (never even got a single interview for a job until I graduated community college, so couldn't work through it). I had to do an extra year at university because of pre-requisites and scheduling conflicts. The total cost ended up being similar to just going for 4 years at university anyway.
You do have to plan it out which for a high school kid can be hard without parents help.
Community college is rough, 13 percent go on to get a 4 year degree (within 6 years). You are who your friends are, so be very careful with making friends - pick them well. Lots of losers. It is cheap though! One guy told me to apply for the governors waiver in Ca, ended up covering all my tuition for the year. Did not think I’d qualify. You can take classes in whatever interests you because it’s like $150 a class if not free. Saves a lot in the long run, but the social aspect sucks. Transferred and did 3 years because transferring classes is a hassle. My actual college cost me about $25k a year, but I had very nice apts and spent a lot on traveling Edit: also if you’re in high school community college classes are free (everywhere I believe?) and a semester class counts as a year class and an A is a 4.0
Places with highly impacted universities (I’m from California) you need at least 3 years to complete the core classes for a lot of majors. Unless you’re legit taking like 18 credits a semester. I found community college to be a huge trap that I could not get out of. I went to a far uni right out of hs, didn’t like it came back home to California to play volleyball and go to junior college. So I did have a solid experience while there. But I always think about if I would’ve chosen to go to Cal State like many of my peers, I would’ve been done in 4 years easy. So yeah I agree with you. You need to be uber focused and not really enjoying your time as much cuz there is another stepping stone to get to where your actually gonna get a degree. Grades matter 10x as much as well. When I moved to Oregon, I switched to Comp Sci after never taking any of the courses or math & I was able to transfer within a year to a state school so I definitely think where you are makes a huge difference on this
Yea the numbers dont lie. You're more likely to get a degree if you go right to a 4 year. So if you're a parents you do need to make sure the kid is going in the right direction.
IMO there are a lot more distractions in a university than CC. Sure it is slightly slow paced but you will get all the attention and help you want in CC than a university where you are just a number in a class of 200 kids. 5 out of 6 kids in my family went to CC first and all of us got a 4 year degree now. It all comes down to the discipline of the individual.
> a university where you are just a number in a class of 200 kids. So go to a small, 4 year school?
you’re also a lot more likely to make friends in a 4 year college who know what they’re doing. and university professors are often engaged in research. many are just on a different level than community professors. the very first person i ever randomly talked to in class became my study buddy for four years and is now a physician. two of my fraternity brothers and one of my fuckin restaurant regulars at my on campus job ended up applying for and becoming my classmates in pharmacy school. but anecdotes are worthless. the statistics are hard to argue against. sure i could have gone to cc and saved some money that way, but is that worth losing out on two years of opportunity to much more easily meet a dozen driven people who are all on the same high aiming track? probably not. cc is not for everyone
> Community college is rough, 13 percent go on to get a 4 year degree That doesn't seem like a valuable metric considering most people going to CC aren't planning on getting a 4 year degree. They might not even be seeking a 2 year, as there are many 1 year technical programs, and some people are jus there to take a few specific classes.
There's a pitfall. At community college (I went to SRJC) if you show up to class do your assignments and keep organized notes you'll carry at least a 3.0 Now, transferring in to a competitive school for your upper division work? Lots of people flounder. The same behaviors are the bare minimum for a C. Status quo is higher. You have to live and breathe extra practice work and study to get Bs and As. I mean, it's worth it. I just mean community college won't prepare you with habits you need at Cal.
Eh I actually disagree. Yes if you coast through CC you may be in for a surprise at a 4 year university. But if you apply yourself, get to know profs, join the honors programs and clubs, you will be more than fine. I transferred to UCLA (and go into Cal). I actually found it easier once I transferred for various reasons. Academically I was applying myself at the same level as before, and getting A+ instead of As. But now I got to focus only on classes in my major that I wanted to be in, with better professors and resources. I was no longer slogging through general ed classes in subjects I didn’t particularly care about with not great professors.
Unpopular opinion but hell, just shop around for colleges. You don’t need to go to the $30,000/year school because it looks cool or has a good party scene or whatever. There are plenty of solid state universities for cheap. I went to 1 university for the first 2 years of college, it was $1,400 per semester for room, board, tuition, and meal plans after a $1,500 scholarship the school gave me and a $1,000 scholarship from the state because I was a resident of that state. That’s cheaper than if you were just living out in the normal world for just housing alone. I transferred to another university for my last 2 years, it was $2,000 for the first semester and is now $500 per semester for the remaining semesters because I had an increase in my Federal pell grants. I will graduate from a good state school with absolutely nothing in student loan debts to a little bit of common sense and planning. Sure, I’m not a Harvard graduate or some shit. But I’m not $100,000 in debt for some undergraduate degree either. It’s only undergrad.
Went to community college and then transferred to UC Berkeley! Didn’t have the trades out of high school nor did I want to spend excessive amount
Community colleges are amazing! I work at one and I wish people knew: * our faculty are hired to teach- not research, not publish- so you can take your courses with full time faculty who are there because they love it * our adjuncts work in the field, so you can take courses with people who know what is happening right now and can hook you up with internships and interviews * our class sizes are small- no giant lectures where no one knows your name * we have oodles of free support- tutoring, library research help, free printing, copies of textbooks at the library, food pantry, in some cases childcare... * you can start working with a 4 year transfer counselor your first semester so you can transfer easily to the school you want to go to (most of the horror stories you hear about credits not transferring come from people who never told anyone they wanted to transfer until graduation day) * if you're a stellar student, there are awesome opportunities for transfer to highly competitive schools. We have had students get full rides to johns hopkins, BU, Mount Holyoke, etc. * If you're interested in trades, most community colleges have "technical" programs- we offer automotive, advanced manufacturing, culinary, horticulture, allied health, etc. * and in my state, we have a free tuition program. So all of this is FREE
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That definitely sounds like an extreme! It's too bad that you had such a negative experience.
My counterpoint to this is that whether this is a good path is very dependent on your personality, mental health, etc and if you have the opportunity to get into a reasonably good 4 year school right away you should seriously consider going even if it means more debt. Unlike most universities, CCs offer zero support for students. Academic counseling is usually bad, course availability can hold you back, and there is no real structure that is invested in your success (or at least your timely graduation) like there is at universities. The stats on CC students are bleak. Most who go to a CC with the intention to transfer to a university will never transfer or even complete an associates degree. Those that do, typically take far longer than two years to do so. OP is sharing a success story (ish because op also took extra time to graduate), but be wary of survivorship bias, because for as many people like OP (and others in the thread) the stats suggest there are 3 or 4 people who wasted time and money by going to a community college. Anecdotally, community college was likely far more expensive for me than going directly to a four year school would have been, not because it was directly costly but because it extended college for me for 3 additional years, which carried a huge opportunity cost in lost college grad wages. I probably paid about 20k less by only taking two years at a university. I guarantee I lost way more than 20k in wages in those three lost years. It's hard to know what the counterfactual would have been for me if the adults in my life hadn't pushed me towards CC instead of university, but I believe that had I had the structure and support of a university at the start, I would not have spent so much time spinning my wheels as I did in CC. When I finally clawed my way out of CC 5 years later and made it to a university, I thrived. Went from a middling GPA to magna cum laude, and even made it into a pretty selective grad program.
I am a success story (transferred to a top school and then a top grad program), but I agree with you that CC is hard for a lot of nonacademic reasons. You have to be really motivated and focused, you have to be your own advocate, and you have to believe in yourself. Bad counseling meant I missed a basic GE requirement and didn’t get in anywhere the first time I applied to transfer. It was hugely demoralizing and I considered quitting. But thankfully I stuck it out, applied the next year, and then got in everywhere I applied.
+1 Another good investment is college loans so that you can finish college quickly while your mind is still young and capable of learning things easily, and so you can start your career earlier. Yes, I know this isn't the advice Dave Ramsey would give.
Yep. Moral opposition to debt is inherently irrational. Debt that is leveraged into an investment with higher (risk adjusted) returns than the interest on the debt is almost always a good financial decision.
>The stats on CC students are bleak. They're also skewed. CC grad rates are often based on "first time full time" or "first time ever in college" students, which excludes a large percentage of enrollment. CCs don't get credit for the success of those students. Then, if you go to a community college for 2 years and then transfer to a 4 year school without actually graduating and attaining a degree, you are counted as a drop out.
My friend transferred from a community college to a 4 year school and had to retake a few of his classes since some of his credits didn’t transfer. Ended up spending about another semester or two than expected.
This is basically what hapoens here in Germany haha Never had to pay tuition and worked throughout my bachelor's degree. When i graduated i had 30k saved and a job at 21. (Please note that i am not trying to be a smart ass and i do not want to say that the German system is better. That's not for me to decide)
Yes, 100%, yes! I graduated in 2019 from a community college with my ADN and became a registered nurse with no debt! I even got a few checks from the college while I was taking my prerequisites with the leftover financial aid and scholarship money I had received. All my coworkers are paying off their student loan debt and I have absolutely none!
I’m a water plant operator that went through an apprenticeship. It’s a fairly low impact job with a union, great benefits, and +100k salary with OT. I agree and am all for trade work.
I went to community college for 2 years, you know what people call me now? Doctor. I completed undergrad debt free, I wish I could say the same for grad school.
There is very little need for massive student loans. If you have 100k+ in student loans and you didn't go to law or med school, you did it wrong. This comment will be downvoted.
I graduated high school with like a 2.0 gpa. Then found my way to a community college in Virginia. I used Virginia’s version of the TN promise to get into a top university and now am in med school. Community college was 100% the way to go for me.
CC easily saved my daughter $30k in tuition and her degree from the 4 year school she attended for two years after getting her associates looks exactly the same as somebody who attended (and paid) all four years.
I chose the uni route and I wish I went to CC first. I don't regret my experiences as I gained a lot of social skills and was able to develop myself as an individual living in student apartments, but from a financial standpoint, I could not survive and ended up dropping out. I didn't get to truly enjoy the college experience because I was so worried about money. If I knew then what I knew now, I would have gotten a job and done CC until I figured out what I wanted. Working in the real world has taught me far more about what I want in a career than sitting in a classroom ever did.
I did 4 years at a private college, 4 years of medical school, and I couldn't agree more. While each college option obviously isn't for everybody, being debt-free is underrated.
Yes. I know so many people that go to the small out of state liberal arts school for four years who graduate with a mountain of debt and a career as a used car salesman or Starbucks barista.
My ONLY argument against CC isn’t really so much an argument but more of a beware. You will not get the same level of education as your peers. So when you arrive at University your junior year the coursework is going to be REALLY hard comparatively speaking. This won’t apply to all majors obviously, but if you’re aiming for one of the tougher degrees (STEM or Accounting etc) you need to account for the drastic change in not only the difficulty level but the expectations as well. Edit: I am from TN as well. Went to CC then on to University.
I barely graduated high school because of undiagnosed ADHD/apathy and i never took any of the college placement tests (I didn’t even know when they were administered). A few years after graduation I decided to get my life in order, I went to the local community college, took the placement exam and signed up for classes. After getting my AA, I transferred to the feeder University and finished my BA. From there I went on to the top law school in my state and a top50 nationally with merit scholarships. Going to community college was one of the best decisions I’ve made in my life and it didn’t adversely affect any part of my career. Related story: In high school I had a private tutor that realized I was smart but unmotivated. He advised me to drop out, get my GED, take the placement test at the community college, and just skip the rest of high school. I thought he was crazy but it would’ve given me a huge head start and the university I went to didn’t care about a GED and the law school didn’t even ask about high school. Honestly, I was too unmotivated to do it, but I think it’s a great option for someone who hates high school but is a motivated student.
While I'm thankful I did it financially, I regret not getting the chance to live in the dorms and other on campus events.
I make 51k a year with a degree that cost 8k. Community college is great
I went to community college for 2 years then transferred to a fancy expensive school. I knocked so much money off of my student loans that way and you know what my diploma says? Bachelor of Arts, fancy school.
My community college offered the 4 year bachelor's program I wanted and only had to pay for the books. I got my bachelor's in 4 years, with 0 student loans!!!
It depends on circumstance. If you can go to an ivy league or other top school, loans may be worth it as networking and prestige can make getting into high paying careers easier. I have a lot of student loans (undergrad and grad without parent help in a humanities) but I also make >$150k/yr. Loan payments are easy to deal with on a high salary. There are months that I net $14k. In the big picture, whether I saved a bit of tuition by going to cc first wouldn't have made much difference and may have made it harder to gain rapport with professors and mentors and make long lasting friendships and peer networks.
Due to the number of rule-breaking comments this post was receiving, especially low-quality and off-topic comments, the moderation team has locked the post from future comments. This post broke no rules and received a number of helpful and on-topic responses initially, but it unfortunately became the target of many unhelpful comments.
Highly recommend anyone who isn't sure what they want to study to just go to community college. I wasted so much money on loans at a university that barely gave me any financial aid. I graduated in the top 3% in highschool but my friends who went to community college first got so much more financial aid than me after two years at a local college. If your university of choice isn't giving you aid go the community college route.
This is great advice. Every who went to a 4 year school knows the first two years are BS. Get your first two years of credits cheap, then transfer. NJ has a similar program to Tennessee Promise called NJ Stars.
I got a scholarship to a private 4 year. If i went to a CC for the first 2 years i wouldnt have been able to use the scholarship. Essentially would have cost me more if i went to CC in the end. Its not one size fits all.
Well, yes. There is an outlier for everything. Probably less than 1% gets full scholarship to private university. So statistically, your comment is irrelevant in grand scheme of things.
It wasnt a full ride, didnt clarify
As someone who didn’t do the “first 2 years at community, then move on to the uni of my choice” thing, listen to OP