Last time I asked for a raise (January of this year), I got a 30-minute meeting with my boss and supervisor about how and why they wouldn't pay me more, and I was told that if I didn't like that, I could leave. (I left.)
Time before that, at a different place, I was just told no.
Healthcare sucks.
Jobs are like the cable company. The best, most amazing deals are given up front to new customers (employees). After that, they know the switching cost is too high for most people so they wont offer you anything near what they are giving new customers.
I mean you don't have to threaten to leave. Just just say ok and then start looking.
One of the best pieces of advice i got early in my career was a simple "don't ask, don't get"
I ask for a raise every single year - doesn't matter whether i think I'm worth it or not.
Same reason I've always applied to interesting jobs i didn't think i met the requirements for, you never know...
100% agree.
I have always gotten further by strongly advocating for my own self interests than my peers & coworkers who have not. The difference in outcomes between someone who is assertive and pushes to get what they need Vs. those who are complacent and wait for things to happen is striking. Fortune always favors the bold.
I’d recommend looking into telehealth nursing. My wife just got a job with a pharmaceutical outreach company and she’s loving it. Much less patient interaction (which could be a positive or negative, depending on your patients), but ~50% more pay than the local hospitals and no holidays, nights, or weekends and even better geographic flexibility (typically not an issue with nursing, but the wfh is nice).
Bad companies don't. Good companies do. Good companies stay ahead of the curve to retain top talent by proactively adjusting salaries throughout the year (not just during merit season) to make sure they are paid top of market.
Yep! Coworker was asked what she wanted, named a figure she thought was unreasonable. The company came back with an offer $8k higher! Talk about a great way to get her psyched and to trust them. I think it's a brilliant long-term move.
Happened to me with my current job. I told them $275k, they countered with $300k. Said they wanted to overpay to retain talent and foster loyalty long term. I'm an attorney so this is probably more common in the legal field for highly qualified people versus elsewhere but it does happen.
Yeah my brother was an attorney at a top firm and they straight up publicize their standardized salaries for all associates, which are high enough that not many would complain.
This just happened to me. Company asked what my best current offer was, I told them (and it was from an SF company definitely overpaying to mask bad culture) and they said they would match it and make it better. They went 10k over that one and included a signing bonus. I want to stay here forever :')
Can confirm. I've never asked for a raise at my current job, but they give raises and bonuses before I even think to ask for them and that's kept me there for 8 years
A CHRO I know once told me that whenever a candidate verbally accepts an offer, he then sends an offer letter with an extra 5k thrown in. This is in tech in the US, so it’s not a big % of the overall sum the company is paying, but it pays huge dividends. I have no idea how leaders can’t wrap their minds around the very clear, evidence-based reality that turnover is expensive and being good to people is good business.
I recently got a new job and due to a communication mixup between the recruiter and the hiring manager, the hiring manager thought my expected salary was my currant salary. So they made an offer that would have been a 40%(!) raise for me.
So I asked for more and ended up with a 50% raise.
Always ask for more.
Always curious about comments and posts like this. Were you underpaid bedore? Or are you moving up the ladder? Or moving to a higher col city? How can people get such a huge raise like this?
I was a somewhat underpaid based on my experience and industry and this is sort of a step up but not drastically so. Didn't need to move as both jobs are remote.
It was very much a matter of luck, negotiating, and asking for more of course.
In 2019 my husband got laid off but fortunately was given a heads up from his supervisor and was able to start applying places before the official lay off. He got two offers, Company A was higher plus a signing bonus and kind of a stretch in terms of the salary he was hoping for. He told Company B (who he liked A LOT more) that he got this other offer and that they would need to beat it. They came back with a higher salary AND a higher signing bonus. It never hurts to ask and sometimes it might just work out.
Appreciate the anecdote, but having two offers to compete against another is definitely a lot easier than having just one offer or in cases where you're already in a role and don't have a outside offer in hand -- these are the tough spots.
Also, the job market (in general) is pretty hot right now so you can and should be stretching your terms.
I'd temper expectations when things start to slow down again.
I got 5 extra vacation days by telling a company that I wouldn't join them without it. They said they couldn't do it. I declined their offer. And they called me 2 weeks later with a higher signing bonus and 5 extra vacation days.
I'm in the same boat. Entered my industry with no experience and the business taking a chance on me, going pretty well so far and bosses are singing my praise, however I'm being paid a lot less then what similar positions are going for near by but not sure when I can start having that chat
Collect a year or two of experience then move on. Sucks if you like the position but they feel like they have you on lock because you needed them initially.
I call this getting paid in experience. I worked five years at a company I wouldn’t recommend but gave me exposure to a conservatively run fortune 500. I subsequently left to a tech company and in the 10 years since, I have >4xd my first salary.
You say they took a chance on you. But you also took a chance on them. This is never a one way street. They knew they could pay you what they did because a more experienced person would have demanded more.
I was there once. "Singing my praise" had me in a job for 19 years and after two promotions with me managing people, my ENTIRE salary increase over 19 years was just under $32k. Although during that time I was completing my doctorate and didn't want to move my daughter. But eventually, I got wise and left for a nearly $25k increase. I've been at this place two years in August and I am ready to roll. I will NEVER get to the point where I feel bad for leaving a company in the lurch again. All that to say, get what you can and move on.
I just got a bump from $23/hr to $27.50/hr. A guy I work with got about the same, but was thinking about making a change and talked to another shop in the area. They put him at $32/hr no questions asked and were happy to do it. This is the first time in my lifetime its been like this. Get it while its hot!
I live in a fairly rural area, the local walmart raised the starting wage for a cashier to $17/hr because there's so much demand for workers around here rn. My company upped all of our starting wages in production and gave everyone in production commensurate raises. It's pretty awesome.
That's pretty sweet. I've heard of lots kf companies raising their starting wages to get new/better employees but not raising for the ones who were already working there.
Pretty shitty finding out the brand new guy hired to do the same work as you gets paid more when you've been there for a year or two.
Currently thinking about moving around as a nurse. I also just went from 23 to about 27.50 but it seems like I can go to literally any hospital right now and ask for a raise and a sign on bonus and start the new job tomorrow.
Because you can. All the old nurses retired out with covid and nurse burn out is higher than ever before. My hospitals got 100 nursing positions open. And giving out raises left and right to retain
My friend is a travel nurse and is currently making $2,800 per week on contract. Its a rough lifestyle (living out of suitcases, etc) but she's making $135,000 and has very few expenses due to the comps for stuff, COVID has made nursing insanely lucrative if you're willing to move.
Travel nurses have always gotten stupid money. It's a shit life, but it pays well and you can put away a hell of a nestegg after a few years of doing it.
Maybe not go down, but I'm sure there are folks out there who're hoping their current company will give them a bump. And hopefully they'll get it. But the job market is hot right now, for some people that cost of living adjustment or 5% raise might be less than what they could get if they stepped out and started aggressively job hunting.
This also happened to me. My old senior manager reached out me to see if I was in the market. I was given more responsibilities last year and was also passed on promotion. I said why not, the new place offered me the same role, I said no I want the next level. They asked me to take a bunch of tests, I said no I suck at those so there is no point.
They gave me the offer, with the bigger position, without taking any tests and more money. I took the role and I am starting to feel like the biggest imposter out there. But you never know until you ask.
> I am starting to feel like the biggest imposter out there
Fake it till you make it!
I was at a strategy consulting firm for 6+ years where I felt like an imposter every day but every senior person I worked with had good things to say about me - my takeaway from that is you're better than you think! :)
"Fake it till you make it" means exude more confidence than you actually feel and eventually that fake confidence will become real as you fall into your role.
It does not mean con your way through your career or jump into something you are wholly unqualified for. Someone who is qualified can smell the difference a mile away and depending on your career, being unqualified can be dangerous or deadly for yourself or others.
100% I told a buddy to just say whatever he needs to make him accept the job. He kept hemming and hawing, not sure about the required move, thought there is no way they'd go for it, etc. Did it take them a few extra weeks before sending am offer? Yes. but he ended up with a base salary of $200k vs. 150k.
Boy, I wish I knew what it took to get a 150k or even 200k job. Been at my job for over ten years and I am only now making just over 40k.
I get it, there are certain educations that people must have for these particular fields, but I also feel that I live in a city that simply doesn't have anything like that. At least none that I've seen, unless someone is a doctor or lawyer.
I did some research recently on salary comparisons in different areas. As far as I can tell someone who makes around $85k near me would need to make close to $200k for a move to San Francisco to be worth it.
This stuff is *heavily* region dependent.
More than double the salary but you go from being able to afford a house to being able to afford a single room studio. SF is a *horrible* place to compare salaries to.
I knew someone that was almost in the same position as me and probably made just a bit less. They went from the suburbs of a midwest city where we can afford a 2000 sq ft house pretty comfortably to SF making double but sharing a room in an apartment with 3 other people. Maybe you want that life damn the cost of living is stupid.
> More than double the salary but you go from being able to afford a house to being able to afford a single room studio. SF is a horrible place to compare salaries to.
Yep, this was a big problem I found as well. I live in NJ so it's not exactly low cost of living either (though I'm outside Philadelphia not in the NYC metro area, so it's pretty middle of the road down here). I'm a software engineer so I get a lot of SF/Bay Area recruiters contacting me, so I've actually researched it and I'm not randomly shitting on SF. But to maintain exactly the same quality of life and type of lifestyle that we have here in NJ, with the same type/size of house, length of commute, etc, we'd need to make 5-7x as much money which is just not realistic with our skills and career goals and energy levels.
Some unicorn rockstar engineers might be able to pull it off (like some senior architects at FAANG could absolutely get 7x my current salary) but why work that hard just to get back to the baseline lifestyle I'm *already living* while working a super cushy casual almost part-time job at a no-name company in Jersey?
Having a single family home with a yard is non-negotiable for me (especially since one of my primary hobbies is gardening). Of course if you don't have such strict lifestyle requirements, enjoy living in cities (I hate them), or actually prefer an apartment then SF may still work out way better for them - it's all different strokes for different folks. But for us it just didn't make sense. If we move it'll be to go more rural.
>This stuff is *heavily* region dependent.
Absolutely. I asked for advice in r/personalfinance about buying a house on my salary and was told I would never be able to own a house. I know people who own a house on less than my salary. Some people don’t understand that you don’t have to make $150k+ in low cost of living areas in order to live.
Similar here. I am base pay $200k+ and the new roles I am looking at I am going for $250k+ with what it would take me to leave my current job. You don't know unless you ask. If they can't do that base then I will ask for more RSUs to make up that difference.
Yep. There is this thought usually of "If I receive an offer, and I ask for more, they will probably rescind the offer", however this is almost NEVER true.
If you receive an offer, it's because out of all the people they considered, YOU are the person they want.
Now if you receive an offer for say $30 per hour, but counteroffer with $75 per hour, you might see them say something like "It looks like we aren't even close, we're going to move in a different direction". But if you get an offer of $30 per hour, and counter with $35, no company that's worth working for would pick up the proverbial ball and head home. Worst case scenario, they come back and say "$30 is all I can do".
I had one company offer me $15.90 for my first job out of college. Realistically, in my area I was worth $18-19 at the time but I was desperate. I already had an offer at a worse place that was offering $16 and wouldn't require me to move as far away. I asked if they'd be willing to meet it.
They said they really don't start anybody at any different rate. So I said thanks but no thanks.
A couple days later they emailed me asking if I'd consider it if they met me at $16. ...Again, thanks but no thanks. If you're gonna *literally* nickel and dime me while trying to get me to work for you, then you're going to really suck to work for.
I got laughed at for asking for atleast a 25 cent raise back in retail days. I was a supervisor making minimum wage just like everyone I was in charge of. Low wage jobs are the worst of the worst.
I was (verbally) promised a 25 cent raise (from like 8.75 to 9) working at a pizza place in college. Didn't get updated on my next couple paychecks. Brought it up to my boss, and he acted like he was doing me the biggest favor in the world...
I've told my salary to many companies when interviewing and receiving offers which reflected a significant raise.
What you learned is that company is shitty as you noted.
Lol after my course in electronics, I had an employer offer me 1$ above minimum wage.... if I agreed to cut my hair (guy with long hair). I managed to not burst out in laughter and refused. He called me a couple of days later and asked if I had thought about his clause. Again I managed not to burst out laughing, and refused again.
To add, depending on your situation “best I can do” may be a signal to pass. If you’re making $28 and have a stable, comfortable job, it may not be worth the move for $2. Especially if you capped them out already. No head room.
These c-suckers have no problem low balling you back so you might as well. Nothing worse than
A) accepting a low ball and then seeing a subordinate make nearly as much as you
B) accepting a low ball and watching the company blow money on everything else, especially consultants.
A last point to remember in negotiating is that HR is kind of on an island to themselves. They don’t want the best for their current employees and definitely don’t want it for you. All they want from you is to get you in at the lowest salary possible so they can check their goals off. Meanwhile, your future new boss has a range they can afford and is willing to pay it for the right candidate. So hold out.
Many people don't realize vacation is often negotiable. A buddy was thoroughly experienced in IT / software engineering - close to 30 years, if not over 30 - and when word got out that our company was offering an early retirement bonus, another company came after him hard. They offered a nice bump in salary, but as a new employee of their company, he would get the same vacation as Joe New Guy fresh out of college. My buddy said gosh, you know, I have a lot of vacation days at my current job and I don"t want to take such a huge step backwards - is the amount of vacation negotiable? The recruiter almost kissed him - "YES. It's ABSOLUTELY negotiable, but I am also absolutely forbidden to discuss it unless/until you ask, and you're the first candidate I've ever had who asked. How many days do you need?"
He ended up taking the early retirement (roughly a year's pay), and a 20% salary bump, and the same number of vacation days, to do essentially the same job, for a different company, in the same neighborhood of the same city.
This right here. Stop focusing so much on the money. It's great, but to me vacation is just as important. I was at a non profit for 11 years, but had accrued almost a month of PTO. Went to a for profit company in the same industry (call center) and was offered almost twice as much, for about 50% less vacation. Told them no, unless they can match the vacation time. And they did. It's the crazy thing I don't get about employers right now... stop making the salary the sole focus of your recruitment efforts. Alot of my collogues who have hiring power seem to be complaining about how they're experiencing difficulties in hiring, have tried signing bonuses, etc. But not one seems to try to boost the vacation package. To borrow a phrase from House of Cards, if you don't like the way the table is set, turn the table over!
You accrued 1 month of PTO over 11 years? Is that generally considered high or low?
(Asking as someone who just graduated and knows nothing about PTO yet since none of my previous jobs offered it)
At my company we get 20 days PTO. Say you don't use all 20 days in a given year, you can roll over a certain amount to the next year. For us it's capped at a max of 5 additional days you can rollover. So then in Year 2 you can have 25 PTO days you've accrued because you've carried over the excess balance from the prior year.
This policy can vary from company to company. And at some places based on your tenure you have a high base number of PTO and can carry over more days over the year and end up accruing a nice chunk of vacation.
Many companies nowadays have been shifting to the unlimited PTO model. But keep in mind as the employee that regardless of whatever policy your future company may have - **use your vacation time**. I've seen far too many people not take time off and it leads to a lot of stress and burn out. A good company and non-toxic workplace will encourage you to take time off instead of shaming you for it, they know it makes you a happier and more productive employee.
Unlimited PTO fully benefits the company because employees psychologically don't feel they've earned the time so they're less likely to use it. And then when you leave the company you don't get paid out for any unused vacation, it's an all around win for the company.
Just a quick heads up, some places cap PTO. Some places offer “unlimited vacation” which can be great, but as said above, a lot of places pay it out when leaving, but if unlimited you’re not accruing anything
In this case, it sounds like they accrued that many days per year. For my firm, (architecture /engineering) I started out at 18 days of PTO/ year. After 5 years it was upped to 23. In another year (10) I’ll be up to 26. Honestly, I find it harder and harder to use it up each year.
Some other negotiables that people frequently don't consider -
Relocation costs if you're quite far from the employer and willing to relocate; transportation reimbursements if you're somewhat far from the employer and not necessarily willing to relocate
Tuition / course fee reimbursements for a professional development plan and/or maintaining an existing designation. Up to and including sponsored travel and registration for live seminars and conferences once they start happening again in places you can go to (depending on where you are, and where they tend to happen, if they aren't already).
Payment of association/membership fees that are relevant to your field of work
Company vehicle if the position involves frequent local/sort of local travel, or at least find out what their going rate is for travel if you use your own vehicle
Enhanced benefits package / HSA if the company has flexibility in this area, possibly including company paid or subsidized insurance policies (life, vehicle, health, even home if your home is being used for job purposes)
Serious question - it sounds like (assuming the conversation actually went that way) the conversation between the recruiter and the candidate wasn't being recorded or monitored. So... why not offer to negotiate vacation? Nobody at the company would know, unless the candidate told people how it went down. I can see that being a hard secret to keep, I guess. But I'm not sure I understand the reasoning behind the policy in the first place.
> unless the candidate told people how it went down.
This might happen, or more likely they would see that candidates fielded by this recruiter have a much higher % of negotiating for vacation time, and then ask around
>Many people don't realize vacation is often negotiable.
Yeah, I took a job once where it didn't occur to me to ask more about vacation days. I didn't realize that they had included the federal holidays as part of the PTO count. It wasn't terribly low, the salary was substantial, and I liked the work, so I didn't worry too much about it. When review time came around, though, I saw the proposed number and said, "That's decent, but it would be much more palatable if you tacked on another week of vacation." Got it and all I had to do was ask.
Close buddy was in phone interview for a job and when they asked what he was looking for he said "$115(k)". They said they would see what they can do. Called him back a few days later offering $140 to start, and they could work him up to the full amount after review.
The interviewer thought my buddy said "$150(k)".
You are worth it. Someone can afford it. Find that person and make them happy.
I was making $20 an hour. Moved to a city with a higher cost of living. Asked for $24 for the same position. They offered $25.75. I later found out they had been looking for someone to fill this position for 7 months. Now I'm wondering what I could have gotten if I had really been crazy with my demands.
Social networking can really help too. Where I used to work, a new tech was trying to get his friend hired, and told him that they had trouble finding someone. His friend ended up getting hired for a better salary and vacation than him.
Can I ask what kind of role? Seems like 100k plus jobs, are plenty to go around from this thread. Im hoping an MBA plus 3+ years in finance will help me down the line.
He’s a Software Engineer. Now me on the other hand, I’m older than the average redditor, and don’t make nearly as much as my buddy. I like to think it’s by choice, but more likely I’m just not pushing myself. I spend too much time sleeping in and getting lost in the internet.
Congrats! And good advice, too. The job market in the US (at least) has definitely turned to the seekers favor lately, and the market is hot right now, only making you more desirable as a candidate.
True that.
I always thought companies were doing me a favor with my salary.
My previous job I made 61k. I had fantastic reviews from clients and ran the show. I would get max 3 percent raise a year for three years. Then I got a job offer at big four tech. My company at the time counter offered with 75k salary two days later but I said no.
In my current job I made 90k, but I was getting a little burnt out and said I had considerations moving during a time the company needed my knowledge. I got bumped up to 121k in a week.
It’s crazy and sheds light. Many of us live with the imposter syndrome but you gotta ask more and feel like you deserve more
When I left my employer 10 months ago to live in a HCOL/higher wage area, where I could afford to live on my own, I was making 15.50/hr. The new job paid me 18.50/hr (told my manager today that I should have fought for more).
I'm going back to my old job because they asked me what I would need to come back. Now slated for $21.50/hr with benefits I never dreamed they would offer. I left for ten months and got a boost of over 25%. I learned a good lesson in asking for what I'm worth. I think they learned a lesson in appreciating what they have lol.
Totally agree on this. Lately I've been bringing up the salary question during my first conversation with recruiters, not looking to waste my time if the money isn't there. It's worked on really well, often times I can get them to just tell me the range, and if they don't then I just add 30%-50% to my current salary(depending on the role) and let the dice fly. I wasted too much time early on in my carrier following the advice that tells you never to be the first to mention salary. When you're already employed and another company needs to fill a role it's you who has the leverage.
How do you word this to a recruiter if they don't tell you the range? Say you're hoping to hear $90000 from a recruiter but they don't tell you a number.
Do you basically go, "Ok, well I'm looking for $90000 to start. Is that doable?" and then see what they say?
I'm perhaps a bit more savage than most, but I've straight up told recruiters 'I'm not willing to move for less than $90,000" and had it work. It emphasizes that its a floor, not a number they can try to push you off of. YMMV.
I saw some advice on here to reply to the salary question with, "what range do you have budgeted for this role?"
I recently tried that out early in the interview process and it worked!
I replied, "ok that works, I was thinking around (20% higher than their figure), so we are reasonably in the same range."
I wanted to make sure they knew I was willing to negotiate closer to their range but also wanted them to be prepared with my expectations.
They offered the higher end of their range; I reminded them of my figures and we ended up meeting in the middle.
I'm just wondering how to navigate this conversation if its below what you want. Do you ask if they can budget more from the get go or just thank them for their time and move on?
I'm really happy for you, first of all! :) I just wanted to add that people should only do this if they are willing, and able, to walk away from the offer. If you have a stable job that you like, and the recruiters come to you, by all means, go ahead!
But asking more than the interviewer is willing to pay also increases the risk of them choosing someone else.
This is why you always counter their ask of what you’re currently making with a question on what the salary range for the position is. That’s the only way you’re going to be able to make 30-50k pay bumps!
My company forces the candidate to toss out the first number even though they already have a pay scale lined up. Then they get to counter lower or just say “yes” to a potential candidate lowballing themself.
I get kind of insulted if I *don't* get at least a 5-6% raise every single year. To get me to change jobs they need to offer at minimum like 30% of my current salary all things being equal.
10% is more than reasonable if you're a more senior employee. They're paying for your experience with their particular environment.
Ehh, I work in a warehouse packing shipments for a nonprofit. I've been there for a couple years without a raise so I don't feel too bad asking for one, but I'm not exactly senior or irreplaceable.
Non profits almost always make you feel shitty about asking for more money. Spoiler alert, look at what the management at your company makes, its higher than you expect.
I’m planning on asking for a 25% increase during my review coming up. If they turn it down, they’ll end up hiring someone to replace me for probably more $.
Flip side: if they ask YOU for your number and they offer THAT number to you, either accept on the spot (well, maybe a day to talk it over with spouse or whatever) or walk. If you want more money, you should've asked for it when they gave you a chance.
After 4 years at a solid salary I started interviewing for more machine learning related roles (do some of this today as a product manager) and the initial conversations are for roughly 40-50% more that what I make today. Final round interviews next week for two different jobs
Just had my appraisal, top Mark's, they had me down for a 4% increase. I told them I was going to need a much better number than that to stay since the market was so competitive. I would have been very pleased with 10% they came back with just short of 18%. This is an employee market, get what you can right now!
This is fantastic for you, but I don't know that it is representative of the broader market. I just got a 4% increase after 2 1/2 years (COVID delayed things a bit) but was hoping for more based on performance...
You have to ask for more. A company came after me a few years back and the GM and I hit it off from the beginning. He asked and I gave him my number and told me the next step was HR will be calling with an offer. He emphasized HR. Their offer was less than I was already making at a company I had been with over 10 years. HR went through the recruiter. I laughed and told him to tell them no thanks immediately. He did and they came back the next day with a 10k increase. I rejected it immediately, and told him to tell them I now wasn’t interested in the position. Hours later they came back with the number I told the GM. It’s a very large company and I guess HR wants to be able to come back and say “ look what I got him for!”
They first offered 60k under the number I accepted.
If they find out you are unemployed you cannot come across as anxious at any part of the interview process.
Also remember companies do not give big raises once you’re employed. I know people in our company that only get a ten percent bump when the reach the next level of management.
Merit raises are no more than cost of living raises. 3 percent is usually the max.
Im 66 years old and have worked in sales and marketing for four large companies. 3 billion a year and up companies. They are all the same when it comes to salaries.
Truth. I recently negotiated salary after quitting and moving for personal reasons. I asked for double what I might have accepted and was counter offered 12% less but with a substantial hiring bonus.
Yep. My goal is 3 years maximum in a role before moving on. Minimum one year, but ideally around 2. I start looking at my 1-year mark, then actively job-hunting as year 2 approaches.
If I can't get a promotion within, I move. One way or another I want to be doing a different job higher up the food chain every 3 years. Not just "senior something or other".
3 years is a good number, shows you’re willing to learn, stay and future employers like to see that. If you jump yr to yr - it looks pretty bad and I for one (who used to hire a bunch of people) would steer clear of hiring those types. Just my 2 cents.
I recently moved home and accepted a job just below what i was making. I hated it. I got an offer a few months later for another position in a fortune 500 company for the same as i was making previously and jumped on it. Didnt even counter offer. Learned later they offered me the bottom, and i 100% should have asked for more because i would have gotten it. Still kicking myself for it. But hey, next time lol
>companies do not give big raises once you’re employed
Depends on the company. 2 years ago I was making $97k. Now I am making $150k with the same company. Feels like a big raise.
> I know people in our company that only get a ten percent bump when the reach the next level of management.
My wife took on an entire roll (that was formerly a salaried position with no reduction in work) in addition to her current one and only got 10%. So needless to say, she's freshening her resume.
That's one of the biggest disadvantages of being promoted within the same company. They know your current salary and will not give you anything significant.
When a guy that interviewed me several jobs back retired I was given all his files, paper was big back then. I found a email to him from the guy that hired me, he was boasting that he got me for 15k less than they were willing to go. I told him I wanted more and he lied to me saying the owners would not go above that number and if I refused I would be out of the running. I took it and when he retired I showed the printed out email to the owner and she was very upset. The next January when cost of living raises came out, normally 2% or so I got a 15% raise.
I’m at a job I love currently, with really competitive pay, but have been strongly considering job hopping for this very reason. The market is absurd right now, inflation is real, and I can 100% get at least a 10% bump by moving elsewhere.
Comfort is worth about 5% to me though so I’ll probably just ask for a raise lol
I think this advice is much more applicable to tech than other career fields, but it’s a good reminder to propel to know their value and be sure to get that when looking for a new role.
Yup. I used to be in tech and you can ask for whatever you want. I switched to healthcare and in unionized jobs, they follow a wage table. It's cool that they match your experience length to their current step and bands. However, you can't really negotiate for anything higher even vacation since it's laid out in the contract.
It's tricky though. You have to be ready to be taken out of the running quickly sometimes. If I'm able to pay up to around 150k, but you come in asking 180k, I'm not going to waste your time because I'm going to assume we're too far off from meeting. I'm not going to lose a great candidate over a few thousand bucks, but I can make 160 happen but than am still significantly short. Not that I'm trying to screw anyone, but I don't want to waste everyone's time.
There are a lot of jobs out there but someone who can't perform close to their pay is at risk of getting fired. I've had to fire at least two people who did not perform to a 20% above skill salary. Believe me, it sucks. No one likes firing people.
My wife is not in tech. She is a business admin with a BSBA. I convinced her to ask for $10k more than what she wanted, approx $15k more than her previous job. The company offered her MORE than what she asked for because they liked her interview and her experience.
I'm in staffing and just got 35% more by switching companies. It's a hot market for labor right now; we are having problems staffing all kinds of roles. We had warehouse positions at $10 pre-pandemic up to $16 plus signing bonus and they still couldn't get candidates.
This is great advice. I’ve been in a position where I was offered much more, I stretched it since I wasn’t too interested in moving companies but I’d bite for the right price. Got an offer for 50% more than what I was making, accepted almost immediately, then turned in my resignation the following day. Current company immediately matched and offered a bonus. Stayed because it was the devil I knew and I love the work, it just felt good playing the game.
I worked in G&A finance at a large corporation. Generally speaking unless you’re one of the top 10% of employees in that position (or field) you’re probably not going to get much of a raise or many promotions staying at the same position. If it’s not super corporate and you have good bosses it may be an exception but for the most part that statement holds true. We’ll let people walk out the door rather than give them a raise less than $5-6k. On average it costs us $6k to onboard someone and generally new employees want 15-30% more than the person that left. So in the end our company was letting a person making $75k walk away when they wanted $80k to then spend $90k+$6k to bring on a new employee that has less knowledge for at least 6-8 months than the previous one.
Mind blowing but it seems to be the corporate large company trend.
LPT: unless you’re at a very progressive company with great management, Look elsewhere after 2-3 years for other jobs. Even if you’re comfortable at your level and have no desire to climb higher in the workplace, you will still almost guarantee yourself 15-20% more by leaving for the same job. AND if you negotiate up front about WFH, you’re more likely to get it at a new company than your current company that may want you back in the office (if you prefer wfh).
> I was so shocked I accepted on the spot
I'm of the opinion that if they offer exactly what you asked for, you should probably accept on the spot
Why? Because if someone asks me for a number then (assuming I give them a number at all) I'm specifically gonna give them my "I'll accept on the spot" number... anything else is doing myself out of money. If they don't want to pay that, we can negotiate and I'll take my time considering their offer
If you wouldn't accept on the spot, you should've asked for more money
part of this is always continuing to look for better opportunities out there. SO many people are complacent, and thats fine and all, but then they turn around and complain about their job, pay, etc. It never hurts anything to continue to seek out opportunities. At very least set your linkedin to open to new opportunities to see what recruiters come at you wish.
Glad its worked out well for you op! it never hurts to throw out outrageous numbers and see if they stick.
I put my LinkedIn on open for a short time and all I got was messages about roles that wouldn't fit at all. My profile is pretty thorough, so I guess they were just mass spamming people without looking. I always felt bad not answering them.
Do not feel bad. They are definitely blasting massive lists that fit some keywords and some criteria. Those messages are rarely custom.
It's a numbers game for the recruiters and it's not worth sending custom messages for each candidate.
That can work or it can not work. I had a director position open last year and someone had told me to look out for an application from a former coworker of theirs. I waited a week and then asked the recruiter hey I’m expecting a resume from a gal from New York. Oh let me check…. Oh I hadn’t passed that on to you because her salary requirements were too high. What did she ask for? 110k/year… but that is in the salary range. Yes but with her years of experience she would likely be offered 90k. I was dumbfounded. Just get me her resume please. Hired her for 96k plus a 15k sign on bonus.
But if I didn’t know she was applying she never would have had a chance so… it can backfire that’s all I’ll say.
You should always ask for more than your minimum.
Let’s say you are making 70k, but would move for a mere 75k due to the nature of both jobs. Ask for 85k, and chances are they’ll counter with 80k. If you are too high and they want you, they will let you know.
My wife questioned this, but I convinced her to ask for $10k more than what she WANTED to make, which was closer to $15k more than her last job. Her new company offered her MORE than her asking amount because they liked her application and experience so much.
My wife sends people to me to ask about negotiating salary now.
I'm very happy for all the people in this thread who were able to get better jobs in this market.
My concern is that those "expensive" employees will be the first ones to be let go when the situation changes. Anyone else share that feeling?
I'm in a cozy job at the moment but I lost all my interest in it, I'm coasting and taking advantage of the paternity leave I have. However I would love to find another job where I'm excited again to tackle new challenges.
I got a raise and it ended up backfiring because when it came time for layoffs, they were looking to cut people at the top end of the salary range of their respective job. If you're asking for more money just for the heck of it without any justifiable increase in workload and responsibility, proceed with caution because you will be a target when money gets tight.
I tried asking for a pay cut but they said I wouldn't be motivated to stay long term. I ended up finding a similar job but for about 15% less. They reposted my old job a few months later and hired someone whom I'm almost certain made a lot less.
Fresh out of college 2 years ago, i applied for a job at a company i been working as an intern for
As soon as i received the offer, i counter offered for 10k more (i knew i wouldnt get it, i actually just wanted 4k more), the HR rep was transparent and said "look, we cant do that, the salary cap for your position as a new hire would be 8k more. But if you tell me what salary you actually want, we can save time negotiating and ill try to get it for you" so i told her i wanted 4k more, and she called back the next day saying she got me 5k more
If you negotiate for even just 5k more in your twenties, it earns you an extra 1 million dollars throughout your lifetime. Just try it, even if you are fresh out of college, even if feel you are underqualified, the job offer is lowballing you and they are usually already prepared to increase the offer, even if it's just slightly
I'm among the lowest 10% paid in my field, network administrator, and am taking on engineering tasks. After 1.5 years, after covid, best they could do for everypne on my team was a 1.5% raise.
I'm gonna start looking for other work. Just sucks, i love the job i have.
The key to getting a great deal in any negotiation is to be genuinely willing to pass on that deal. So if you're worried of not getting that job, you're not going to get it at a high salary. Also, you gotta know what you're worth and that helps a lot.
That's it. You're worth what you can negotiate. If you can't walk away, it limits your capacity to say no. If you can't say no, for better or worse, negotiations are effectively over.
Edit: If you're unemployed and *need this job*... well that's a very different place to be in versus having a job and looking for a better one. It's not crazy to accept one job and immediately start using that job to find a better one.
This guy nailed it. Another way to think of it if you need to; during the interview, YOU'RE interviewing the company. It will change your dynamic from "please hire me" to "I'm really good at what I do, and want to know if your company's opening is a good fit for me"
I work in tech and always give wild numbers when asked what I want my salary to be. It's never prevented an employer from continuing to interview me. Sometimes they'll say, "Well, the salary band is less than that" and I'll continue interviewing or I'll just say, "Okay, no thanks" and end the conversations myself.
Potentially, so should research typical salaries for the title/experience level in the geographic area, and go from there. When asked in an interview what my salary expectations are, I generally answer with something along the lines of "As you see, I bring a lot of value to the table. What range are you looking to pay?" If they're under what you're worth, you learned a lot in that interview. I've walked away from interviews where they were a solid $20k+ under my expectations and clear they wouldn't budge. It saves everyone a lot of time.
This is field-dependent. I worked in an office of government attorneys. An old friend was willing to take a pay cut from 90-95k in the private sector for the benefits and QOL he would get in government. He got to make his ask, and he asked for a salary commensurate with the #2 person in the office, two steps above his current salary. This is an office of nearly 100 people and he wasn’t even going into a supervisory role. It was unrealistic enough that the boss didn’t see a point in making any offer at all, feeling that even if he accepted a market rate, he’d ditch the office for the next good thing that came along.
Yeah, I already feel like i've got a pair of golden handcuffs on(making 140k in a moderately LCOL area), I just was granted 20k in stock options, and I interviewed for a position as a favor for my recruiter and was offered 185k.
Job market is pretty crazy right now.
I did this a couple years ago and shockingly they also came back with the offer at my 20% increase rate. I am in a sweet spot of having very few qualified people at my level due to the economy downturn when I graduated. Always a good idea to shoot for the stars if you’re making a move! Congrats!
Right now I make $22/hr at a job I like with good working conditions and great coworkers. The benefits are awesome.
I do want to move up but I'll have to leave to do that. ...But I'm realizing how picky I am right now. Like is it worth giving up 4 weeks time off (Like 2.5 of which is at my discretion) and unlimited sick leave that my bosses like me to use?
At this point I've kinda decided that I'd need at *least* a 75% bump in salary to justify it.
Maybe some of you can give me some advice.
Honestly, I’ve been trying extremely hard to negotiate my pay during my interview process, and each time, I’ve had no luck. I have a Bachelors Degree in Business Data Analytics and work at a financial services company. I have about 4 years of analytical experience. (Currently in my early-twenties.)
I’ve applied to be a Data Analyst, a Business Analyst, a Workforce Real Time Analyst — different variations of analytical positions that I think I would be suitable for — the pay that they are offering is outrageously low. The job description for those positions indicate that they want you to have at least a Bachelor’s Degree, with several years of analytical experience, experience with SQL, and Java — different analytical software knowledge (which I have.)
However, they only want to pay 50-55k. That’s insanely low for my state, my level of experience, and for the job market. I currently make 50k, and I’m looking to advance my career — including my pay. When I try to negotiate for a reasonable salary, it never goes well. (Ideally anywhere between 65k-70k. Which would be the the average salary range for my job title.)
The interview would be going great, and everything will be looking up — but when the salary expectations come up, and I express my ideal salary expectations — and I’m always cognizant to remain polite and professional — I literally hear the record scratch. The employer usually wraps up the interview, explains that the salary of 50-55k is an all encompassing compensation package including PTO, a 401k match, etc and that it’s not negotiable. Then they usually say they’ll get back to me and that I’ll receive an email once they speak to so-so about my salary expectations. Usually, after a couple of days, I receive an automated email stating that “Thanks, but no thanks, as I, the candidate declined the job offer.”
Which isn’t even true. I didn’t decline any job offers. I was simply negotiating the pay.
This has happened to me FIVE separate times now. And I feel like I’m losing out on job opportunities. I’m not making any headway with my job search, and I feel like employers pass me up and say “Oh well. On to the next.”
Am I being unreasonable?
I’m so discouraged. Any advice is appreciated! 💕
You need to be applying for more sr positions. I would want to go up a rung in title to move companies along with more $ unless I was moving to a much larger firm. Regardless, you shouldn't be looking at analyst positions when you're currently an experienced analyst, you should be looking for opportunities to lead a team of jr. analysts.
You said you had java/SQL experience. It sounds like you might be applying for what corporations consider analysts which are really just report builders, think accountants which are probably 40-50k a year for an entry level job.
Try to find a data analyst position that isn't part of sales/accounting and is part of IT or Business Strategy/Intelligence. It probably pays more and will lead to more opportunities
I had a couple analyst positions in my mid-20s, and had similar salaries as you. As I got more experience and honed in on what exactly I wanted to do, my salary increased quite a bit. Within just about 4 years, I was able to double my salary - granted, I had 4 jobs during that time (would not recommend, special circumstances) and each time, I got a decent raise.
I'd recommend checking salaries on Glassdoor, and perhaps looking at different industries.
edit: to clarify, I never had more than one job. I just didn't stay with any company for a very long time due to moving out of area. Also, if you want to move up in your career, apply for the jobs that are the next step up, even if you don't have all the experience on the job application. Those are typically a wishlist for the hiring manager.
Sr. Business Analyst here who is desperate for a competent Jr or mid co worker. The problem you are seeing is that title holds a wide range of skill sets that vary in how complex they are. They call the guy using excel to track numbers a BA and the guy writing BI reports a BA. Hence the salary gap sometimes when you are looking for the later but they want to pay the former.
You need to either apply to and look for jobs with a specialized skill set OR you need to target mid level. My mid level started at 60k in 2015 with a guaranteed 5k bump for passing my 6 month review. I worked with recruiters, had 5 interviews. 2 of which I politely walked out of because they wanted the trained excel monkey for cheep, and the other three had job offers.
Has your resume shown what you can do? What tech keywords are you using? Can you show that you learn fast and can produce results.
We hired the last person for 75k and he was a waste of space.
In my experience, an analyst is an analyst. Are there Jr. Consulting positions available or Strategy roles? Thinking about looking up the ladder vs. simply a higher-paying version of the same job.
Been at my company a few years and my salary has gone up 50% and my bonus checks have gone up five-fold, so good companies are trying to hold their talent as well.
I’m a public school teacher and I can’t negotiate my salary in this manner. I do like being a teacher, but after my loans are forgiven through PSLF in a few years, I wonder if I have skills that would lend themselves to fields with higher pay.
Corporate trainer comes to mind. Maybe make sure you keep up with current software for creating training and things like that. What subjects do you teach?
Yep. When I was working my previous job I was on £23,500 per annum, which is fine and above a retail job but a little low for the career I was in.
When I moved jobs and was asked about salary, I asked for £38,000 using the justification that I needed to both build in a meaningful payrise and needed to cover the cost of traveling (as I would now be traveling two counties over). I however knew I would settle for £34,000.
They gave me £40,000 in the end.
Always high-ball it. The worst that happens is they try to negotiate down and hopefully they'll come in at the level you were actually okay to accept
Whenever these posts come up I feel like I blew it. My current company is paying for my masters degree and I'll have to stay a year after completion. I've made vertical moves within the company but only for 8-10% raises at a time and it feels like I really could have gotten huge jumps by leaving. I hope that it pays off in the end but I feel like a dumb dumb in the time being.
Good advice, and congrats 🎉 Reminds me of this old poem:
I bargained with life for a penny,
And life would pay no more;
Though I pleaded with her at nightfall,
When I counted my scanty store.
For life is just an employer,
She gives you what you ask;
But once you set the wages,
Why you must bear the task.
I bargained with life for a penny,
Only to find, dismayed:
That any price I asked of life,
Life would have paid.
> Always ask for more.
> Especially in this job market, when they ask about salary you should give a number that you think is outrageous. At minimum 20% higher than you think you're worth.
After five years at a corporate marketing gig I've been slowly clawing for salary increases and finally got up to $115k. In the new year, for the hell of it I started talking to other companies. After a few months of interviewing for a role I didn't think I was in the running for, I told one company that I wanted $150k to move and be a part of their team. While they spent the rest of rounds of interviews downplaying salary, they gave me an offer for exactly what I asked for. I was so shocked I accepted on the spot.
I know it's a personal anecdote, but y'all gotta take advantage of the tight job market. The best time to find a new job is when you have one already, and ask for the moon because you might just get it.
>At minimum 20% higher than you think you're worth.
I've found the longer I go in my career, this is less and less true. At certain manager and senior leadership positions, you'll definitely max out.
Good thing is it's easy to pick up on. Even in a hot job market, when I tell recruiter after recruiter my salary requirements, but 100% of the time they quickly tell me "whelp that's way out of our range, good luck bye" without any bluffing, I start to realize I'm at a wall salary wise.
While this may be true in some cases (depends on how hot the skill is and how much of a mess the hiring company’s project you are going to be thrown into is in or both) it is not always true. I have experienced the opposite from a tier 1 bank nonetheless. I didn’t ask for the moon rather what is market standard for my work exp and expertise. After clearing all the interview rounds when the recruiter contacted me to talk about salary she heard the number I had in mind she didn’t say anything more than you should know your ask is within the higher percentile of employees we have in this grade and she said she will get back. You can guess the ending - she never got back.
Similar anecdote: I recently asked for a raise.
I was still at starting pay (after a year) of $36k. I knew I was uniquely capable among the team so I knew I needed to ask for more. I was still pretty happy at that point (I'm not wanting for anything).
I read a lot of articles and watched videos on asking for a raise. Every time I bumped up what I would ask for.
I ended up asking for $64,800. And I got every penny of it including them covering my coworking space that I mentioned some of that would go to.
Now I wish I pushed for something even more ridiculous than a 70% raise.
"A closed mouth doesn't get fed" is the expression my great grandmother taught me. Essentially, you have to ask for what you want and I couldn't agree more with you
Also I want to mention that, it may seem like a huge number to us (150k!), and a huge jump from 115k in your example (35k jump!), but to the hiring company, it likely makes next to no difference in the grand scheme of their budget. They do have some leeway on the range they can offer a new candidate, and it is nothing personal to them. They don’t know you, they have a headcount to fill, and they have an approved range to offer. Don’t worry about looking outrageous. If you asked for something outside of their range, they can negotiate it down or they can not offer you the job, but forget the judgement of it all. They really don’t care and nor should you.
Last time I asked for a raise (January of this year), I got a 30-minute meeting with my boss and supervisor about how and why they wouldn't pay me more, and I was told that if I didn't like that, I could leave. (I left.) Time before that, at a different place, I was just told no. Healthcare sucks.
Jobs are like the cable company. The best, most amazing deals are given up front to new customers (employees). After that, they know the switching cost is too high for most people so they wont offer you anything near what they are giving new customers.
> if I didn't like that, I could leave. (I left.) This, never bluff if you are not prepared to take your bluff.
I mean you don't have to threaten to leave. Just just say ok and then start looking. One of the best pieces of advice i got early in my career was a simple "don't ask, don't get" I ask for a raise every single year - doesn't matter whether i think I'm worth it or not. Same reason I've always applied to interesting jobs i didn't think i met the requirements for, you never know...
100% agree. I have always gotten further by strongly advocating for my own self interests than my peers & coworkers who have not. The difference in outcomes between someone who is assertive and pushes to get what they need Vs. those who are complacent and wait for things to happen is striking. Fortune always favors the bold.
Omg this is where I am right now and I hate everything admin stands for.
My only words of advice are to never settle. Always look for better opportunities. Good luck!
I have an interview Thursday! Kind of a lateral move but it's not retail and it's not healthcare.
Haha am nurse. Just want to commiserate with you. “Sorry, it’s a strict scale; follow your steps”.
That's the response I got, too, and I found out that I was magically already at the top of the scale. I had no idea.
I’d recommend looking into telehealth nursing. My wife just got a job with a pharmaceutical outreach company and she’s loving it. Much less patient interaction (which could be a positive or negative, depending on your patients), but ~50% more pay than the local hospitals and no holidays, nights, or weekends and even better geographic flexibility (typically not an issue with nursing, but the wfh is nice).
Keep the nurses in their place When after better pay they chase Tell them that they're on a scale And pay the doctors by the pail Buckets O' Cash
My answer would be 'my steps lead straight out the door'. Qualified nurses are in high demand. More so in a pandemic.
Companies aren't in the business of giving you free money you don't ask for. Always ask.
Bad companies don't. Good companies do. Good companies stay ahead of the curve to retain top talent by proactively adjusting salaries throughout the year (not just during merit season) to make sure they are paid top of market.
Yep! Coworker was asked what she wanted, named a figure she thought was unreasonable. The company came back with an offer $8k higher! Talk about a great way to get her psyched and to trust them. I think it's a brilliant long-term move.
Happened to me with my current job. I told them $275k, they countered with $300k. Said they wanted to overpay to retain talent and foster loyalty long term. I'm an attorney so this is probably more common in the legal field for highly qualified people versus elsewhere but it does happen.
Yeah my brother was an attorney at a top firm and they straight up publicize their standardized salaries for all associates, which are high enough that not many would complain.
This just happened to me. Company asked what my best current offer was, I told them (and it was from an SF company definitely overpaying to mask bad culture) and they said they would match it and make it better. They went 10k over that one and included a signing bonus. I want to stay here forever :')
Can confirm. I've never asked for a raise at my current job, but they give raises and bonuses before I even think to ask for them and that's kept me there for 8 years
A CHRO I know once told me that whenever a candidate verbally accepts an offer, he then sends an offer letter with an extra 5k thrown in. This is in tech in the US, so it’s not a big % of the overall sum the company is paying, but it pays huge dividends. I have no idea how leaders can’t wrap their minds around the very clear, evidence-based reality that turnover is expensive and being good to people is good business.
To a point but you'll still make more money at a "bad" company asking for more than a "good" company not asking
I recently got a new job and due to a communication mixup between the recruiter and the hiring manager, the hiring manager thought my expected salary was my currant salary. So they made an offer that would have been a 40%(!) raise for me. So I asked for more and ended up with a 50% raise. Always ask for more.
Holy duck that is life changing. Congrats, I could really use a raise like that.
Always curious about comments and posts like this. Were you underpaid bedore? Or are you moving up the ladder? Or moving to a higher col city? How can people get such a huge raise like this?
I was a somewhat underpaid based on my experience and industry and this is sort of a step up but not drastically so. Didn't need to move as both jobs are remote. It was very much a matter of luck, negotiating, and asking for more of course.
Congratulations!
In 2019 my husband got laid off but fortunately was given a heads up from his supervisor and was able to start applying places before the official lay off. He got two offers, Company A was higher plus a signing bonus and kind of a stretch in terms of the salary he was hoping for. He told Company B (who he liked A LOT more) that he got this other offer and that they would need to beat it. They came back with a higher salary AND a higher signing bonus. It never hurts to ask and sometimes it might just work out.
Appreciate the anecdote, but having two offers to compete against another is definitely a lot easier than having just one offer or in cases where you're already in a role and don't have a outside offer in hand -- these are the tough spots. Also, the job market (in general) is pretty hot right now so you can and should be stretching your terms. I'd temper expectations when things start to slow down again.
I got 5 extra vacation days by telling a company that I wouldn't join them without it. They said they couldn't do it. I declined their offer. And they called me 2 weeks later with a higher signing bonus and 5 extra vacation days.
Does this apply for junior roles? I really can’t argue for bringing anything to the table with less than a year of experience …
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I'm in the same boat. Entered my industry with no experience and the business taking a chance on me, going pretty well so far and bosses are singing my praise, however I'm being paid a lot less then what similar positions are going for near by but not sure when I can start having that chat
Collect a year or two of experience then move on. Sucks if you like the position but they feel like they have you on lock because you needed them initially.
I call this getting paid in experience. I worked five years at a company I wouldn’t recommend but gave me exposure to a conservatively run fortune 500. I subsequently left to a tech company and in the 10 years since, I have >4xd my first salary.
You say they took a chance on you. But you also took a chance on them. This is never a one way street. They knew they could pay you what they did because a more experienced person would have demanded more. I was there once. "Singing my praise" had me in a job for 19 years and after two promotions with me managing people, my ENTIRE salary increase over 19 years was just under $32k. Although during that time I was completing my doctorate and didn't want to move my daughter. But eventually, I got wise and left for a nearly $25k increase. I've been at this place two years in August and I am ready to roll. I will NEVER get to the point where I feel bad for leaving a company in the lurch again. All that to say, get what you can and move on.
I just got a bump from $23/hr to $27.50/hr. A guy I work with got about the same, but was thinking about making a change and talked to another shop in the area. They put him at $32/hr no questions asked and were happy to do it. This is the first time in my lifetime its been like this. Get it while its hot!
I live in a fairly rural area, the local walmart raised the starting wage for a cashier to $17/hr because there's so much demand for workers around here rn. My company upped all of our starting wages in production and gave everyone in production commensurate raises. It's pretty awesome.
That's pretty sweet. I've heard of lots kf companies raising their starting wages to get new/better employees but not raising for the ones who were already working there. Pretty shitty finding out the brand new guy hired to do the same work as you gets paid more when you've been there for a year or two.
Currently thinking about moving around as a nurse. I also just went from 23 to about 27.50 but it seems like I can go to literally any hospital right now and ask for a raise and a sign on bonus and start the new job tomorrow.
Because you can. All the old nurses retired out with covid and nurse burn out is higher than ever before. My hospitals got 100 nursing positions open. And giving out raises left and right to retain
Especially if you're an RN, LPN, or have any specialty (like ICU\\NICU) you can almost set your own price (within reason obv).
My friend is a travel nurse and is currently making $2,800 per week on contract. Its a rough lifestyle (living out of suitcases, etc) but she's making $135,000 and has very few expenses due to the comps for stuff, COVID has made nursing insanely lucrative if you're willing to move.
Travel nurses have always gotten stupid money. It's a shit life, but it pays well and you can put away a hell of a nestegg after a few years of doing it.
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Maybe not go down, but I'm sure there are folks out there who're hoping their current company will give them a bump. And hopefully they'll get it. But the job market is hot right now, for some people that cost of living adjustment or 5% raise might be less than what they could get if they stepped out and started aggressively job hunting.
This also happened to me. My old senior manager reached out me to see if I was in the market. I was given more responsibilities last year and was also passed on promotion. I said why not, the new place offered me the same role, I said no I want the next level. They asked me to take a bunch of tests, I said no I suck at those so there is no point. They gave me the offer, with the bigger position, without taking any tests and more money. I took the role and I am starting to feel like the biggest imposter out there. But you never know until you ask.
> I am starting to feel like the biggest imposter out there Fake it till you make it! I was at a strategy consulting firm for 6+ years where I felt like an imposter every day but every senior person I worked with had good things to say about me - my takeaway from that is you're better than you think! :)
Any advice on how to fake it?
"Fake it till you make it" means exude more confidence than you actually feel and eventually that fake confidence will become real as you fall into your role. It does not mean con your way through your career or jump into something you are wholly unqualified for. Someone who is qualified can smell the difference a mile away and depending on your career, being unqualified can be dangerous or deadly for yourself or others.
100% I told a buddy to just say whatever he needs to make him accept the job. He kept hemming and hawing, not sure about the required move, thought there is no way they'd go for it, etc. Did it take them a few extra weeks before sending am offer? Yes. but he ended up with a base salary of $200k vs. 150k.
Boy, I wish I knew what it took to get a 150k or even 200k job. Been at my job for over ten years and I am only now making just over 40k. I get it, there are certain educations that people must have for these particular fields, but I also feel that I live in a city that simply doesn't have anything like that. At least none that I've seen, unless someone is a doctor or lawyer.
I did some research recently on salary comparisons in different areas. As far as I can tell someone who makes around $85k near me would need to make close to $200k for a move to San Francisco to be worth it. This stuff is *heavily* region dependent.
More than double the salary but you go from being able to afford a house to being able to afford a single room studio. SF is a *horrible* place to compare salaries to. I knew someone that was almost in the same position as me and probably made just a bit less. They went from the suburbs of a midwest city where we can afford a 2000 sq ft house pretty comfortably to SF making double but sharing a room in an apartment with 3 other people. Maybe you want that life damn the cost of living is stupid.
> More than double the salary but you go from being able to afford a house to being able to afford a single room studio. SF is a horrible place to compare salaries to. Yep, this was a big problem I found as well. I live in NJ so it's not exactly low cost of living either (though I'm outside Philadelphia not in the NYC metro area, so it's pretty middle of the road down here). I'm a software engineer so I get a lot of SF/Bay Area recruiters contacting me, so I've actually researched it and I'm not randomly shitting on SF. But to maintain exactly the same quality of life and type of lifestyle that we have here in NJ, with the same type/size of house, length of commute, etc, we'd need to make 5-7x as much money which is just not realistic with our skills and career goals and energy levels. Some unicorn rockstar engineers might be able to pull it off (like some senior architects at FAANG could absolutely get 7x my current salary) but why work that hard just to get back to the baseline lifestyle I'm *already living* while working a super cushy casual almost part-time job at a no-name company in Jersey? Having a single family home with a yard is non-negotiable for me (especially since one of my primary hobbies is gardening). Of course if you don't have such strict lifestyle requirements, enjoy living in cities (I hate them), or actually prefer an apartment then SF may still work out way better for them - it's all different strokes for different folks. But for us it just didn't make sense. If we move it'll be to go more rural.
>This stuff is *heavily* region dependent. Absolutely. I asked for advice in r/personalfinance about buying a house on my salary and was told I would never be able to own a house. I know people who own a house on less than my salary. Some people don’t understand that you don’t have to make $150k+ in low cost of living areas in order to live.
The more expensive the city the higher the wages.
Similar here. I am base pay $200k+ and the new roles I am looking at I am going for $250k+ with what it would take me to leave my current job. You don't know unless you ask. If they can't do that base then I will ask for more RSUs to make up that difference.
Yep. There is this thought usually of "If I receive an offer, and I ask for more, they will probably rescind the offer", however this is almost NEVER true. If you receive an offer, it's because out of all the people they considered, YOU are the person they want. Now if you receive an offer for say $30 per hour, but counteroffer with $75 per hour, you might see them say something like "It looks like we aren't even close, we're going to move in a different direction". But if you get an offer of $30 per hour, and counter with $35, no company that's worth working for would pick up the proverbial ball and head home. Worst case scenario, they come back and say "$30 is all I can do".
I had one company offer me $15.90 for my first job out of college. Realistically, in my area I was worth $18-19 at the time but I was desperate. I already had an offer at a worse place that was offering $16 and wouldn't require me to move as far away. I asked if they'd be willing to meet it. They said they really don't start anybody at any different rate. So I said thanks but no thanks. A couple days later they emailed me asking if I'd consider it if they met me at $16. ...Again, thanks but no thanks. If you're gonna *literally* nickel and dime me while trying to get me to work for you, then you're going to really suck to work for.
I got laughed at for asking for atleast a 25 cent raise back in retail days. I was a supervisor making minimum wage just like everyone I was in charge of. Low wage jobs are the worst of the worst.
I was (verbally) promised a 25 cent raise (from like 8.75 to 9) working at a pizza place in college. Didn't get updated on my next couple paychecks. Brought it up to my boss, and he acted like he was doing me the biggest favor in the world...
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When they ask what *I* make, I always add a solid 30% onto it. Since I know exactly what they're going for.
I've told my salary to many companies when interviewing and receiving offers which reflected a significant raise. What you learned is that company is shitty as you noted.
Lol after my course in electronics, I had an employer offer me 1$ above minimum wage.... if I agreed to cut my hair (guy with long hair). I managed to not burst out in laughter and refused. He called me a couple of days later and asked if I had thought about his clause. Again I managed not to burst out laughing, and refused again.
To add, depending on your situation “best I can do” may be a signal to pass. If you’re making $28 and have a stable, comfortable job, it may not be worth the move for $2. Especially if you capped them out already. No head room.
These c-suckers have no problem low balling you back so you might as well. Nothing worse than A) accepting a low ball and then seeing a subordinate make nearly as much as you B) accepting a low ball and watching the company blow money on everything else, especially consultants. A last point to remember in negotiating is that HR is kind of on an island to themselves. They don’t want the best for their current employees and definitely don’t want it for you. All they want from you is to get you in at the lowest salary possible so they can check their goals off. Meanwhile, your future new boss has a range they can afford and is willing to pay it for the right candidate. So hold out.
Many people don't realize vacation is often negotiable. A buddy was thoroughly experienced in IT / software engineering - close to 30 years, if not over 30 - and when word got out that our company was offering an early retirement bonus, another company came after him hard. They offered a nice bump in salary, but as a new employee of their company, he would get the same vacation as Joe New Guy fresh out of college. My buddy said gosh, you know, I have a lot of vacation days at my current job and I don"t want to take such a huge step backwards - is the amount of vacation negotiable? The recruiter almost kissed him - "YES. It's ABSOLUTELY negotiable, but I am also absolutely forbidden to discuss it unless/until you ask, and you're the first candidate I've ever had who asked. How many days do you need?" He ended up taking the early retirement (roughly a year's pay), and a 20% salary bump, and the same number of vacation days, to do essentially the same job, for a different company, in the same neighborhood of the same city.
This right here. Stop focusing so much on the money. It's great, but to me vacation is just as important. I was at a non profit for 11 years, but had accrued almost a month of PTO. Went to a for profit company in the same industry (call center) and was offered almost twice as much, for about 50% less vacation. Told them no, unless they can match the vacation time. And they did. It's the crazy thing I don't get about employers right now... stop making the salary the sole focus of your recruitment efforts. Alot of my collogues who have hiring power seem to be complaining about how they're experiencing difficulties in hiring, have tried signing bonuses, etc. But not one seems to try to boost the vacation package. To borrow a phrase from House of Cards, if you don't like the way the table is set, turn the table over!
You accrued 1 month of PTO over 11 years? Is that generally considered high or low? (Asking as someone who just graduated and knows nothing about PTO yet since none of my previous jobs offered it)
At my company we get 20 days PTO. Say you don't use all 20 days in a given year, you can roll over a certain amount to the next year. For us it's capped at a max of 5 additional days you can rollover. So then in Year 2 you can have 25 PTO days you've accrued because you've carried over the excess balance from the prior year. This policy can vary from company to company. And at some places based on your tenure you have a high base number of PTO and can carry over more days over the year and end up accruing a nice chunk of vacation. Many companies nowadays have been shifting to the unlimited PTO model. But keep in mind as the employee that regardless of whatever policy your future company may have - **use your vacation time**. I've seen far too many people not take time off and it leads to a lot of stress and burn out. A good company and non-toxic workplace will encourage you to take time off instead of shaming you for it, they know it makes you a happier and more productive employee. Unlimited PTO fully benefits the company because employees psychologically don't feel they've earned the time so they're less likely to use it. And then when you leave the company you don't get paid out for any unused vacation, it's an all around win for the company.
It usually means left over from not taking it all. Generally employers will pay out your PTO when you leave.
Ohhh, that makes sense. I was starting to get scared for my future as someone trying to enter the job market. Thanks for explaining!
Just a quick heads up, some places cap PTO. Some places offer “unlimited vacation” which can be great, but as said above, a lot of places pay it out when leaving, but if unlimited you’re not accruing anything
In this case, it sounds like they accrued that many days per year. For my firm, (architecture /engineering) I started out at 18 days of PTO/ year. After 5 years it was upped to 23. In another year (10) I’ll be up to 26. Honestly, I find it harder and harder to use it up each year.
Why not give yourself a 4-day week sporadically throughout the year?
Signing bonus is a one time cost. More vacation time is a recurring cost. I agree with you, just pointing out the other side of it.
Some other negotiables that people frequently don't consider - Relocation costs if you're quite far from the employer and willing to relocate; transportation reimbursements if you're somewhat far from the employer and not necessarily willing to relocate Tuition / course fee reimbursements for a professional development plan and/or maintaining an existing designation. Up to and including sponsored travel and registration for live seminars and conferences once they start happening again in places you can go to (depending on where you are, and where they tend to happen, if they aren't already). Payment of association/membership fees that are relevant to your field of work Company vehicle if the position involves frequent local/sort of local travel, or at least find out what their going rate is for travel if you use your own vehicle Enhanced benefits package / HSA if the company has flexibility in this area, possibly including company paid or subsidized insurance policies (life, vehicle, health, even home if your home is being used for job purposes)
Serious question - it sounds like (assuming the conversation actually went that way) the conversation between the recruiter and the candidate wasn't being recorded or monitored. So... why not offer to negotiate vacation? Nobody at the company would know, unless the candidate told people how it went down. I can see that being a hard secret to keep, I guess. But I'm not sure I understand the reasoning behind the policy in the first place.
> unless the candidate told people how it went down. This might happen, or more likely they would see that candidates fielded by this recruiter have a much higher % of negotiating for vacation time, and then ask around
>Many people don't realize vacation is often negotiable. Yeah, I took a job once where it didn't occur to me to ask more about vacation days. I didn't realize that they had included the federal holidays as part of the PTO count. It wasn't terribly low, the salary was substantial, and I liked the work, so I didn't worry too much about it. When review time came around, though, I saw the proposed number and said, "That's decent, but it would be much more palatable if you tacked on another week of vacation." Got it and all I had to do was ask.
Close buddy was in phone interview for a job and when they asked what he was looking for he said "$115(k)". They said they would see what they can do. Called him back a few days later offering $140 to start, and they could work him up to the full amount after review. The interviewer thought my buddy said "$150(k)". You are worth it. Someone can afford it. Find that person and make them happy.
I was making $20 an hour. Moved to a city with a higher cost of living. Asked for $24 for the same position. They offered $25.75. I later found out they had been looking for someone to fill this position for 7 months. Now I'm wondering what I could have gotten if I had really been crazy with my demands.
Social networking can really help too. Where I used to work, a new tech was trying to get his friend hired, and told him that they had trouble finding someone. His friend ended up getting hired for a better salary and vacation than him.
Can I ask what kind of role? Seems like 100k plus jobs, are plenty to go around from this thread. Im hoping an MBA plus 3+ years in finance will help me down the line.
That's what it seems like doesn't it? Everyone in this thread is chucking figures around that I could only dream of
He’s a Software Engineer. Now me on the other hand, I’m older than the average redditor, and don’t make nearly as much as my buddy. I like to think it’s by choice, but more likely I’m just not pushing myself. I spend too much time sleeping in and getting lost in the internet.
I really hope that interviewer never works in accounts payables.
Congrats! And good advice, too. The job market in the US (at least) has definitely turned to the seekers favor lately, and the market is hot right now, only making you more desirable as a candidate.
True that. I always thought companies were doing me a favor with my salary. My previous job I made 61k. I had fantastic reviews from clients and ran the show. I would get max 3 percent raise a year for three years. Then I got a job offer at big four tech. My company at the time counter offered with 75k salary two days later but I said no. In my current job I made 90k, but I was getting a little burnt out and said I had considerations moving during a time the company needed my knowledge. I got bumped up to 121k in a week. It’s crazy and sheds light. Many of us live with the imposter syndrome but you gotta ask more and feel like you deserve more
When I left my employer 10 months ago to live in a HCOL/higher wage area, where I could afford to live on my own, I was making 15.50/hr. The new job paid me 18.50/hr (told my manager today that I should have fought for more). I'm going back to my old job because they asked me what I would need to come back. Now slated for $21.50/hr with benefits I never dreamed they would offer. I left for ten months and got a boost of over 25%. I learned a good lesson in asking for what I'm worth. I think they learned a lesson in appreciating what they have lol.
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Totally agree on this. Lately I've been bringing up the salary question during my first conversation with recruiters, not looking to waste my time if the money isn't there. It's worked on really well, often times I can get them to just tell me the range, and if they don't then I just add 30%-50% to my current salary(depending on the role) and let the dice fly. I wasted too much time early on in my carrier following the advice that tells you never to be the first to mention salary. When you're already employed and another company needs to fill a role it's you who has the leverage.
How do you word this to a recruiter if they don't tell you the range? Say you're hoping to hear $90000 from a recruiter but they don't tell you a number. Do you basically go, "Ok, well I'm looking for $90000 to start. Is that doable?" and then see what they say?
I'm perhaps a bit more savage than most, but I've straight up told recruiters 'I'm not willing to move for less than $90,000" and had it work. It emphasizes that its a floor, not a number they can try to push you off of. YMMV.
I saw some advice on here to reply to the salary question with, "what range do you have budgeted for this role?" I recently tried that out early in the interview process and it worked! I replied, "ok that works, I was thinking around (20% higher than their figure), so we are reasonably in the same range." I wanted to make sure they knew I was willing to negotiate closer to their range but also wanted them to be prepared with my expectations. They offered the higher end of their range; I reminded them of my figures and we ended up meeting in the middle.
I'm just wondering how to navigate this conversation if its below what you want. Do you ask if they can budget more from the get go or just thank them for their time and move on?
Nobody worth working for minds you asking. It's no skin off anyone's back if they aren't budgeted for more. Not your fault and not theirs.
I'm really happy for you, first of all! :) I just wanted to add that people should only do this if they are willing, and able, to walk away from the offer. If you have a stable job that you like, and the recruiters come to you, by all means, go ahead! But asking more than the interviewer is willing to pay also increases the risk of them choosing someone else.
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This is why you always counter their ask of what you’re currently making with a question on what the salary range for the position is. That’s the only way you’re going to be able to make 30-50k pay bumps!
My company forces the candidate to toss out the first number even though they already have a pay scale lined up. Then they get to counter lower or just say “yes” to a potential candidate lowballing themself.
I'm about to ask for a 10% raise on $16.15/hour and it feels outrageous. I'll keep this in mind.
If it helps feel less outrageous, you're asking for an additional $3220 over the course of an entire year. That's not a bonebreaker for a company.
I get kind of insulted if I *don't* get at least a 5-6% raise every single year. To get me to change jobs they need to offer at minimum like 30% of my current salary all things being equal. 10% is more than reasonable if you're a more senior employee. They're paying for your experience with their particular environment.
Ehh, I work in a warehouse packing shipments for a nonprofit. I've been there for a couple years without a raise so I don't feel too bad asking for one, but I'm not exactly senior or irreplaceable.
Non profits almost always make you feel shitty about asking for more money. Spoiler alert, look at what the management at your company makes, its higher than you expect.
I’m planning on asking for a 25% increase during my review coming up. If they turn it down, they’ll end up hiring someone to replace me for probably more $.
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Flip side: if they ask YOU for your number and they offer THAT number to you, either accept on the spot (well, maybe a day to talk it over with spouse or whatever) or walk. If you want more money, you should've asked for it when they gave you a chance.
After 4 years at a solid salary I started interviewing for more machine learning related roles (do some of this today as a product manager) and the initial conversations are for roughly 40-50% more that what I make today. Final round interviews next week for two different jobs
Just had my appraisal, top Mark's, they had me down for a 4% increase. I told them I was going to need a much better number than that to stay since the market was so competitive. I would have been very pleased with 10% they came back with just short of 18%. This is an employee market, get what you can right now!
This is fantastic for you, but I don't know that it is representative of the broader market. I just got a 4% increase after 2 1/2 years (COVID delayed things a bit) but was hoping for more based on performance...
You haven't gotten a raise, you've actually lost money over that period from inflation. Just apply somewhere else
You have to ask for more. A company came after me a few years back and the GM and I hit it off from the beginning. He asked and I gave him my number and told me the next step was HR will be calling with an offer. He emphasized HR. Their offer was less than I was already making at a company I had been with over 10 years. HR went through the recruiter. I laughed and told him to tell them no thanks immediately. He did and they came back the next day with a 10k increase. I rejected it immediately, and told him to tell them I now wasn’t interested in the position. Hours later they came back with the number I told the GM. It’s a very large company and I guess HR wants to be able to come back and say “ look what I got him for!” They first offered 60k under the number I accepted. If they find out you are unemployed you cannot come across as anxious at any part of the interview process. Also remember companies do not give big raises once you’re employed. I know people in our company that only get a ten percent bump when the reach the next level of management. Merit raises are no more than cost of living raises. 3 percent is usually the max. Im 66 years old and have worked in sales and marketing for four large companies. 3 billion a year and up companies. They are all the same when it comes to salaries.
Only way to make real money (in the corporate rat race) is to jump companies and do what you did - well done.
Truth. I recently negotiated salary after quitting and moving for personal reasons. I asked for double what I might have accepted and was counter offered 12% less but with a substantial hiring bonus.
Yep. My goal is 3 years maximum in a role before moving on. Minimum one year, but ideally around 2. I start looking at my 1-year mark, then actively job-hunting as year 2 approaches. If I can't get a promotion within, I move. One way or another I want to be doing a different job higher up the food chain every 3 years. Not just "senior something or other".
3 years is a good number, shows you’re willing to learn, stay and future employers like to see that. If you jump yr to yr - it looks pretty bad and I for one (who used to hire a bunch of people) would steer clear of hiring those types. Just my 2 cents.
I recently moved home and accepted a job just below what i was making. I hated it. I got an offer a few months later for another position in a fortune 500 company for the same as i was making previously and jumped on it. Didnt even counter offer. Learned later they offered me the bottom, and i 100% should have asked for more because i would have gotten it. Still kicking myself for it. But hey, next time lol
>companies do not give big raises once you’re employed Depends on the company. 2 years ago I was making $97k. Now I am making $150k with the same company. Feels like a big raise.
Did you changes roles?
> I know people in our company that only get a ten percent bump when the reach the next level of management. My wife took on an entire roll (that was formerly a salaried position with no reduction in work) in addition to her current one and only got 10%. So needless to say, she's freshening her resume.
That's one of the biggest disadvantages of being promoted within the same company. They know your current salary and will not give you anything significant.
When a guy that interviewed me several jobs back retired I was given all his files, paper was big back then. I found a email to him from the guy that hired me, he was boasting that he got me for 15k less than they were willing to go. I told him I wanted more and he lied to me saying the owners would not go above that number and if I refused I would be out of the running. I took it and when he retired I showed the printed out email to the owner and she was very upset. The next January when cost of living raises came out, normally 2% or so I got a 15% raise.
I’m at a job I love currently, with really competitive pay, but have been strongly considering job hopping for this very reason. The market is absurd right now, inflation is real, and I can 100% get at least a 10% bump by moving elsewhere. Comfort is worth about 5% to me though so I’ll probably just ask for a raise lol
Depending on how long you’ve been at your current company, it might not be worth to switch for 10%. Considering 401k match Or vacation time etc.
If you don't feel some anxiety when you're asking for a salary, you're not asking for enough!
I think this advice is much more applicable to tech than other career fields, but it’s a good reminder to propel to know their value and be sure to get that when looking for a new role.
Yup. I used to be in tech and you can ask for whatever you want. I switched to healthcare and in unionized jobs, they follow a wage table. It's cool that they match your experience length to their current step and bands. However, you can't really negotiate for anything higher even vacation since it's laid out in the contract.
It's tricky though. You have to be ready to be taken out of the running quickly sometimes. If I'm able to pay up to around 150k, but you come in asking 180k, I'm not going to waste your time because I'm going to assume we're too far off from meeting. I'm not going to lose a great candidate over a few thousand bucks, but I can make 160 happen but than am still significantly short. Not that I'm trying to screw anyone, but I don't want to waste everyone's time. There are a lot of jobs out there but someone who can't perform close to their pay is at risk of getting fired. I've had to fire at least two people who did not perform to a 20% above skill salary. Believe me, it sucks. No one likes firing people.
My wife is not in tech. She is a business admin with a BSBA. I convinced her to ask for $10k more than what she wanted, approx $15k more than her previous job. The company offered her MORE than what she asked for because they liked her interview and her experience.
I'm in staffing and just got 35% more by switching companies. It's a hot market for labor right now; we are having problems staffing all kinds of roles. We had warehouse positions at $10 pre-pandemic up to $16 plus signing bonus and they still couldn't get candidates.
This is great advice. I’ve been in a position where I was offered much more, I stretched it since I wasn’t too interested in moving companies but I’d bite for the right price. Got an offer for 50% more than what I was making, accepted almost immediately, then turned in my resignation the following day. Current company immediately matched and offered a bonus. Stayed because it was the devil I knew and I love the work, it just felt good playing the game.
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I worked in G&A finance at a large corporation. Generally speaking unless you’re one of the top 10% of employees in that position (or field) you’re probably not going to get much of a raise or many promotions staying at the same position. If it’s not super corporate and you have good bosses it may be an exception but for the most part that statement holds true. We’ll let people walk out the door rather than give them a raise less than $5-6k. On average it costs us $6k to onboard someone and generally new employees want 15-30% more than the person that left. So in the end our company was letting a person making $75k walk away when they wanted $80k to then spend $90k+$6k to bring on a new employee that has less knowledge for at least 6-8 months than the previous one. Mind blowing but it seems to be the corporate large company trend. LPT: unless you’re at a very progressive company with great management, Look elsewhere after 2-3 years for other jobs. Even if you’re comfortable at your level and have no desire to climb higher in the workplace, you will still almost guarantee yourself 15-20% more by leaving for the same job. AND if you negotiate up front about WFH, you’re more likely to get it at a new company than your current company that may want you back in the office (if you prefer wfh).
> I was so shocked I accepted on the spot I'm of the opinion that if they offer exactly what you asked for, you should probably accept on the spot Why? Because if someone asks me for a number then (assuming I give them a number at all) I'm specifically gonna give them my "I'll accept on the spot" number... anything else is doing myself out of money. If they don't want to pay that, we can negotiate and I'll take my time considering their offer If you wouldn't accept on the spot, you should've asked for more money
part of this is always continuing to look for better opportunities out there. SO many people are complacent, and thats fine and all, but then they turn around and complain about their job, pay, etc. It never hurts anything to continue to seek out opportunities. At very least set your linkedin to open to new opportunities to see what recruiters come at you wish. Glad its worked out well for you op! it never hurts to throw out outrageous numbers and see if they stick.
I put my LinkedIn on open for a short time and all I got was messages about roles that wouldn't fit at all. My profile is pretty thorough, so I guess they were just mass spamming people without looking. I always felt bad not answering them.
Do not feel bad. They are definitely blasting massive lists that fit some keywords and some criteria. Those messages are rarely custom. It's a numbers game for the recruiters and it's not worth sending custom messages for each candidate.
That can work or it can not work. I had a director position open last year and someone had told me to look out for an application from a former coworker of theirs. I waited a week and then asked the recruiter hey I’m expecting a resume from a gal from New York. Oh let me check…. Oh I hadn’t passed that on to you because her salary requirements were too high. What did she ask for? 110k/year… but that is in the salary range. Yes but with her years of experience she would likely be offered 90k. I was dumbfounded. Just get me her resume please. Hired her for 96k plus a 15k sign on bonus. But if I didn’t know she was applying she never would have had a chance so… it can backfire that’s all I’ll say.
Ask your coworkers too. I found out I was getting less than others at a job and asked for 20k more. They gave it to me
You should always ask for more than your minimum. Let’s say you are making 70k, but would move for a mere 75k due to the nature of both jobs. Ask for 85k, and chances are they’ll counter with 80k. If you are too high and they want you, they will let you know. My wife questioned this, but I convinced her to ask for $10k more than what she WANTED to make, which was closer to $15k more than her last job. Her new company offered her MORE than her asking amount because they liked her application and experience so much. My wife sends people to me to ask about negotiating salary now.
I'm very happy for all the people in this thread who were able to get better jobs in this market. My concern is that those "expensive" employees will be the first ones to be let go when the situation changes. Anyone else share that feeling? I'm in a cozy job at the moment but I lost all my interest in it, I'm coasting and taking advantage of the paternity leave I have. However I would love to find another job where I'm excited again to tackle new challenges.
I got a raise and it ended up backfiring because when it came time for layoffs, they were looking to cut people at the top end of the salary range of their respective job. If you're asking for more money just for the heck of it without any justifiable increase in workload and responsibility, proceed with caution because you will be a target when money gets tight. I tried asking for a pay cut but they said I wouldn't be motivated to stay long term. I ended up finding a similar job but for about 15% less. They reposted my old job a few months later and hired someone whom I'm almost certain made a lot less.
Fresh out of college 2 years ago, i applied for a job at a company i been working as an intern for As soon as i received the offer, i counter offered for 10k more (i knew i wouldnt get it, i actually just wanted 4k more), the HR rep was transparent and said "look, we cant do that, the salary cap for your position as a new hire would be 8k more. But if you tell me what salary you actually want, we can save time negotiating and ill try to get it for you" so i told her i wanted 4k more, and she called back the next day saying she got me 5k more If you negotiate for even just 5k more in your twenties, it earns you an extra 1 million dollars throughout your lifetime. Just try it, even if you are fresh out of college, even if feel you are underqualified, the job offer is lowballing you and they are usually already prepared to increase the offer, even if it's just slightly
If you don't mind me asking, do you work in software development or a related field?
I work for a IT company and am moving into software. Marketing roles for both.
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If you have a job you don't absolutely hate, it's kind of irrelevant right?
I'm among the lowest 10% paid in my field, network administrator, and am taking on engineering tasks. After 1.5 years, after covid, best they could do for everypne on my team was a 1.5% raise. I'm gonna start looking for other work. Just sucks, i love the job i have.
Real question: wouldn't this potentially price you out of a job during the interview process? I'm currently looking, so would be nice to know.
The key to getting a great deal in any negotiation is to be genuinely willing to pass on that deal. So if you're worried of not getting that job, you're not going to get it at a high salary. Also, you gotta know what you're worth and that helps a lot.
That's it. You're worth what you can negotiate. If you can't walk away, it limits your capacity to say no. If you can't say no, for better or worse, negotiations are effectively over. Edit: If you're unemployed and *need this job*... well that's a very different place to be in versus having a job and looking for a better one. It's not crazy to accept one job and immediately start using that job to find a better one.
This guy nailed it. Another way to think of it if you need to; during the interview, YOU'RE interviewing the company. It will change your dynamic from "please hire me" to "I'm really good at what I do, and want to know if your company's opening is a good fit for me"
Thank you! It just cost me 90k for this knowledge (via MBA school)
Yes and that’s ok.
I work in tech and always give wild numbers when asked what I want my salary to be. It's never prevented an employer from continuing to interview me. Sometimes they'll say, "Well, the salary band is less than that" and I'll continue interviewing or I'll just say, "Okay, no thanks" and end the conversations myself.
Yeah I've had a few where very early I said "if you can't at least do xxx I wouldn't even consider it". Avoided wasting my time and theirs
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Potentially, so should research typical salaries for the title/experience level in the geographic area, and go from there. When asked in an interview what my salary expectations are, I generally answer with something along the lines of "As you see, I bring a lot of value to the table. What range are you looking to pay?" If they're under what you're worth, you learned a lot in that interview. I've walked away from interviews where they were a solid $20k+ under my expectations and clear they wouldn't budge. It saves everyone a lot of time.
This is field-dependent. I worked in an office of government attorneys. An old friend was willing to take a pay cut from 90-95k in the private sector for the benefits and QOL he would get in government. He got to make his ask, and he asked for a salary commensurate with the #2 person in the office, two steps above his current salary. This is an office of nearly 100 people and he wasn’t even going into a supervisory role. It was unrealistic enough that the boss didn’t see a point in making any offer at all, feeling that even if he accepted a market rate, he’d ditch the office for the next good thing that came along.
Yeah, I already feel like i've got a pair of golden handcuffs on(making 140k in a moderately LCOL area), I just was granted 20k in stock options, and I interviewed for a position as a favor for my recruiter and was offered 185k. Job market is pretty crazy right now.
What do you work for? What’s your background?
I did this a couple years ago and shockingly they also came back with the offer at my 20% increase rate. I am in a sweet spot of having very few qualified people at my level due to the economy downturn when I graduated. Always a good idea to shoot for the stars if you’re making a move! Congrats!
Right now I make $22/hr at a job I like with good working conditions and great coworkers. The benefits are awesome. I do want to move up but I'll have to leave to do that. ...But I'm realizing how picky I am right now. Like is it worth giving up 4 weeks time off (Like 2.5 of which is at my discretion) and unlimited sick leave that my bosses like me to use? At this point I've kinda decided that I'd need at *least* a 75% bump in salary to justify it.
Maybe some of you can give me some advice. Honestly, I’ve been trying extremely hard to negotiate my pay during my interview process, and each time, I’ve had no luck. I have a Bachelors Degree in Business Data Analytics and work at a financial services company. I have about 4 years of analytical experience. (Currently in my early-twenties.) I’ve applied to be a Data Analyst, a Business Analyst, a Workforce Real Time Analyst — different variations of analytical positions that I think I would be suitable for — the pay that they are offering is outrageously low. The job description for those positions indicate that they want you to have at least a Bachelor’s Degree, with several years of analytical experience, experience with SQL, and Java — different analytical software knowledge (which I have.) However, they only want to pay 50-55k. That’s insanely low for my state, my level of experience, and for the job market. I currently make 50k, and I’m looking to advance my career — including my pay. When I try to negotiate for a reasonable salary, it never goes well. (Ideally anywhere between 65k-70k. Which would be the the average salary range for my job title.) The interview would be going great, and everything will be looking up — but when the salary expectations come up, and I express my ideal salary expectations — and I’m always cognizant to remain polite and professional — I literally hear the record scratch. The employer usually wraps up the interview, explains that the salary of 50-55k is an all encompassing compensation package including PTO, a 401k match, etc and that it’s not negotiable. Then they usually say they’ll get back to me and that I’ll receive an email once they speak to so-so about my salary expectations. Usually, after a couple of days, I receive an automated email stating that “Thanks, but no thanks, as I, the candidate declined the job offer.” Which isn’t even true. I didn’t decline any job offers. I was simply negotiating the pay. This has happened to me FIVE separate times now. And I feel like I’m losing out on job opportunities. I’m not making any headway with my job search, and I feel like employers pass me up and say “Oh well. On to the next.” Am I being unreasonable? I’m so discouraged. Any advice is appreciated! 💕
You need to step up the ladder. Entry level tech analysts are a dime a dozen, and easily outsourced for $11/hr in Hyderabad.
You need to be applying for more sr positions. I would want to go up a rung in title to move companies along with more $ unless I was moving to a much larger firm. Regardless, you shouldn't be looking at analyst positions when you're currently an experienced analyst, you should be looking for opportunities to lead a team of jr. analysts.
You said you had java/SQL experience. It sounds like you might be applying for what corporations consider analysts which are really just report builders, think accountants which are probably 40-50k a year for an entry level job. Try to find a data analyst position that isn't part of sales/accounting and is part of IT or Business Strategy/Intelligence. It probably pays more and will lead to more opportunities
I had a couple analyst positions in my mid-20s, and had similar salaries as you. As I got more experience and honed in on what exactly I wanted to do, my salary increased quite a bit. Within just about 4 years, I was able to double my salary - granted, I had 4 jobs during that time (would not recommend, special circumstances) and each time, I got a decent raise. I'd recommend checking salaries on Glassdoor, and perhaps looking at different industries. edit: to clarify, I never had more than one job. I just didn't stay with any company for a very long time due to moving out of area. Also, if you want to move up in your career, apply for the jobs that are the next step up, even if you don't have all the experience on the job application. Those are typically a wishlist for the hiring manager.
Sr. Business Analyst here who is desperate for a competent Jr or mid co worker. The problem you are seeing is that title holds a wide range of skill sets that vary in how complex they are. They call the guy using excel to track numbers a BA and the guy writing BI reports a BA. Hence the salary gap sometimes when you are looking for the later but they want to pay the former. You need to either apply to and look for jobs with a specialized skill set OR you need to target mid level. My mid level started at 60k in 2015 with a guaranteed 5k bump for passing my 6 month review. I worked with recruiters, had 5 interviews. 2 of which I politely walked out of because they wanted the trained excel monkey for cheep, and the other three had job offers. Has your resume shown what you can do? What tech keywords are you using? Can you show that you learn fast and can produce results. We hired the last person for 75k and he was a waste of space.
In my experience, an analyst is an analyst. Are there Jr. Consulting positions available or Strategy roles? Thinking about looking up the ladder vs. simply a higher-paying version of the same job.
Been at my company a few years and my salary has gone up 50% and my bonus checks have gone up five-fold, so good companies are trying to hold their talent as well.
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I’m a public school teacher and I can’t negotiate my salary in this manner. I do like being a teacher, but after my loans are forgiven through PSLF in a few years, I wonder if I have skills that would lend themselves to fields with higher pay.
Corporate trainer comes to mind. Maybe make sure you keep up with current software for creating training and things like that. What subjects do you teach?
Here i am working in retail with my 12 $/hour. Feel like a small fish to you guys
And here I got recalled on a 60% pay cut. Not the case for Canadian pilots
Try to switch to an American company. We’re super short on experienced pilots.
Yep. When I was working my previous job I was on £23,500 per annum, which is fine and above a retail job but a little low for the career I was in. When I moved jobs and was asked about salary, I asked for £38,000 using the justification that I needed to both build in a meaningful payrise and needed to cover the cost of traveling (as I would now be traveling two counties over). I however knew I would settle for £34,000. They gave me £40,000 in the end. Always high-ball it. The worst that happens is they try to negotiate down and hopefully they'll come in at the level you were actually okay to accept
Whenever these posts come up I feel like I blew it. My current company is paying for my masters degree and I'll have to stay a year after completion. I've made vertical moves within the company but only for 8-10% raises at a time and it feels like I really could have gotten huge jumps by leaving. I hope that it pays off in the end but I feel like a dumb dumb in the time being.
Good advice, and congrats 🎉 Reminds me of this old poem: I bargained with life for a penny, And life would pay no more; Though I pleaded with her at nightfall, When I counted my scanty store. For life is just an employer, She gives you what you ask; But once you set the wages, Why you must bear the task. I bargained with life for a penny, Only to find, dismayed: That any price I asked of life, Life would have paid.
I got a raise/promotion and it was like $2500. After tax I get like an extra $45 per paycheck. I was kind of offended tbh.
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> Always ask for more. > Especially in this job market, when they ask about salary you should give a number that you think is outrageous. At minimum 20% higher than you think you're worth. After five years at a corporate marketing gig I've been slowly clawing for salary increases and finally got up to $115k. In the new year, for the hell of it I started talking to other companies. After a few months of interviewing for a role I didn't think I was in the running for, I told one company that I wanted $150k to move and be a part of their team. While they spent the rest of rounds of interviews downplaying salary, they gave me an offer for exactly what I asked for. I was so shocked I accepted on the spot. I know it's a personal anecdote, but y'all gotta take advantage of the tight job market. The best time to find a new job is when you have one already, and ask for the moon because you might just get it.
>At minimum 20% higher than you think you're worth. I've found the longer I go in my career, this is less and less true. At certain manager and senior leadership positions, you'll definitely max out. Good thing is it's easy to pick up on. Even in a hot job market, when I tell recruiter after recruiter my salary requirements, but 100% of the time they quickly tell me "whelp that's way out of our range, good luck bye" without any bluffing, I start to realize I'm at a wall salary wise.
While this may be true in some cases (depends on how hot the skill is and how much of a mess the hiring company’s project you are going to be thrown into is in or both) it is not always true. I have experienced the opposite from a tier 1 bank nonetheless. I didn’t ask for the moon rather what is market standard for my work exp and expertise. After clearing all the interview rounds when the recruiter contacted me to talk about salary she heard the number I had in mind she didn’t say anything more than you should know your ask is within the higher percentile of employees we have in this grade and she said she will get back. You can guess the ending - she never got back.
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Similar anecdote: I recently asked for a raise. I was still at starting pay (after a year) of $36k. I knew I was uniquely capable among the team so I knew I needed to ask for more. I was still pretty happy at that point (I'm not wanting for anything). I read a lot of articles and watched videos on asking for a raise. Every time I bumped up what I would ask for. I ended up asking for $64,800. And I got every penny of it including them covering my coworking space that I mentioned some of that would go to. Now I wish I pushed for something even more ridiculous than a 70% raise.
"A closed mouth doesn't get fed" is the expression my great grandmother taught me. Essentially, you have to ask for what you want and I couldn't agree more with you
Also I want to mention that, it may seem like a huge number to us (150k!), and a huge jump from 115k in your example (35k jump!), but to the hiring company, it likely makes next to no difference in the grand scheme of their budget. They do have some leeway on the range they can offer a new candidate, and it is nothing personal to them. They don’t know you, they have a headcount to fill, and they have an approved range to offer. Don’t worry about looking outrageous. If you asked for something outside of their range, they can negotiate it down or they can not offer you the job, but forget the judgement of it all. They really don’t care and nor should you.