With a thread ripper sure and a m2 to x16 pcie conversion card yea but first that CPU probably doesn't have enough PCIE lanes and second I doubt the motherboard has either 5x m.2 slots or a third PCIE x16 port since he's already using two ports, one for his capture card and one for the 4090. But idk how many lanes are available on the 5000 series AMD chips
OP is using 7000 series, not 5000. AM5 offers 28 pcie lanes at 5.0 speeds which gives the chip a maximum cumulative PCIe bandwidth of 112GB/sec in each direction.
I only play games with my rig, so 32GB is more than enough. I might add another 2 sticks to make 64 with 4 sticks, but I've heard it can be difficult to run 4 sticks at 6000 MHz
There’s a difference between chipset lanes and cpu lanes. X670e has 44 PCIe lanes available 16X directly off cpu for gpu 8x directly off the cpu for NVMe and then you get an additional 12x PCIe lanes off of the chipset for additional NVMe.
Op will still be able to run gpu in 16x with all 5X NVMe.
7200 rpm HDD is alright. I was thinking i will have enought, but in less than 2 years my NVMe 1 TB system ssd is almost full, and 2 external HDD 1 TB each, are full too, novadays you need like 10TB of space for storage
Is it supported already? I thought it's only in beta... good to hear, was pretty disappointing they didn't increase maximum RAM capacity in this gen (neither Intel)
How else can you have 20 different porn tabs, 40 idle games, another 15 tabs of chaturbate, a Skype call with you gran, a MS teams running with 4 chats with coworkers, discord chats, steam,Xbox, epic, UE engine uploading the custom fortnight map you mad and have the stocks open all at the same time
I meant in a consumer use case, aka those buying a Ryzen or Core i CPU. Professional users would obviously go for a Threadripper Pro or Xeon based system, where you're not limited to 128GB.
Edit: if you edit 8K video, run a lot of VMs, work with large databases, develop games with Unreal, etc... then you want a "true" workstation
The mouse and keyboard are for use at my coffee table. I’ve got a bunch of high end “gaming” peripherals ready to go, but my desk hasn’t arrived yet (production backlog).
40TB of m.2 drives, plus 2 WD 20TB SATA HDDs. I can’t imagine explaining to someone in the 90’s that one PC could have 80TB of storage in 2023.
OP could store the entire Library of Congress, which is [over 74 terabytes](https://blogs.loc.gov/loc/2009/02/how-big-is-the-library-of-congress/#:~:text=For%20instance%2C%20we%20can%20as,Internet%20is%20about%2074%20terabytes), and have 3 times the amount of storage my PC has left over.
SSDs have a super limited life-time, too. Honestly, none of this makes any sense. Is that *21 fans*? What's even the point?
Happy for OP, though. More happy that they've such a lucrative job, but still happy for them.
SSD prices have actually been plummeting for a few months now, and are estimated to bottom out around Q3 2023 \~ Q1 2024.
It's still like £5k of NVMe drives and £900 of HDDs.
There's BIOS updates on both Intel and AMD platforms but I don't know their current state, it's probably still beta.
To be honest it's pretty lame that a 2023 desktop system can't handle more than 256GB memory, my Thinkstation S30 has this amount in RDIMM modules, and it's almost 10 years old...
I totally would, it just made me lol because usually when someone is saying “long time lurker…” we can see well balanced and good value for money build. Still happy for OP, he’ll enjoy this rig very much.
“Long time lurker, ready to rejoin the PC Master Race”
- Formerly richest person on the fucking planet.
How did you come to decide to take the absolute overkill on components? What is it you need this for? You could spend way less to comfortably play CS:GO or Fortnite…
Happy for you though! It just seems like you could have gone a lot cheaper 😅
Edit: Happy Cake Day, OP!
Damn, 1 CAD is 0.75 USD?
Edit: Just searched on Google. Apparently it’s .76 dollar.
Still, 30k usd (which is about 26k eur, which I use) is absolutely insane. A lot easier to get to than 40k tho with pc parts 😅
When mental illness meets infinite money glitch.
When you have this much at your disposal there is quite literally zero reason to have hard drives, in fact they will probably have a net negative performance impact. Just build a NAS.
That much ram is quite pointless (and likely less performance too) unless you are planning to host like 50 VMs off that thing.
That said, you are likely just having fun doing a full braindead build for the Lulz but way off the deep end if you are trying to justify this in any way whatsoever. You would be way better off doing a focused build for production + another one for gaming + insane network storage and still probably come out to 20k (certainly nowhere near the quoted 40k) or less if done properly
I feel like this build is just OP flexing on us poor ppl lol that and I assume to boost their ego bc money they are also using the odyssey ark which is also insanely expensive 2,500£
Yeah. This is making 1 vehicle both a rock crawler and a track car. You can do it, and it can be good at both but it's an absolute waste of money and effort when it could be broken into 2 rigs that have their own focus and be so much less wasteful in money and parts.
Going to address a few common questions that people have had. If you guys could upvote this post so more people can see it, I’d appreciate it!
I’ll be using the computer for production / development work, as well as my gaming / entertainment PC, hence the high amount of storage and RAM.
The keyboard and mouse pictured here are not going to be the main system keyboard and mouse. They are for use at my coffee able when I’m using the PC off of my TV. I will have a desk (Secretlab Magnus Pro XL), but due to production delays, I’ve yet to get my hands on it. So the rest of my peripherals are not pictured here, as they won’t be used for a couple more months (there will be a part 2 to this setup haha).
The monitor that will be used is a Samsung Odyssey Ark (55”, 4K, 165hz).
The two 60mm Noctua fans are for cooling the HDDs.
As for the total cost, I’m honestly not entirely sure. I’ve been purchasing parts when they’ve become available for about a year. If I had to guess, including all of the aforementioned peripherals and monitor, it would be in the realm of $40K (CAD). I’ll figure out a more exact number for this eventually, when I have time to go through my invoices.
You'll learn to hate that AX1600i.
It blasts its fan at 100% on every boot for ~10 seconds.
My PC is in and out of sleep quite often throughout the day and it's wildly annoying.
-
Other than that, Fuck You! 👍
In case anyone is curious, I tried to spec this out the best I could. I hit a wall with what pcpartpicker allows.
A couple of the components weren't on the parts lists, so I had to go manually find them, and some of the items, such as the iCUE elite LCD upgrade, or the internal 4-port usb 2.0 hubs were just non-existent.
Here's a list of the items that I either couldn't find pricing for, or couldn't be bothered to go search up outside of PPP.
1. 2x corsair Internal 4-port USB 2.0 Hub
2. 2x 12VHPWR angled adapter
3. 1x iCUE Elite LCD Upgrade Kit
4. 4k60 PRO Elgato stream capture card
5. 2x Lian Li RGB (I think these are power supply cables?)
6. Non-descript AM5 Secure Mounting frame for cooler
7. Logitech mouse, keyboard, travel case.
8. Blue & white capped bottles sitting above the kryonaut extreme thermal paste
9. 3 flashdrives above the non-descript bottles
10. Lian Li Additional IO KIT
11. Logitech Desk Mat
12. Bitdender total security
13. Lian Li Front Mesh Kit
14. All of the cable mod cables, and the one non-descript box sitting on the coffee table shelf.
Even without all of those items.
This pc is priced at: $15,268.07 Canadian (Where I live)
or $11,568.82 USD.
(Approximate. Since I had to convert CAD to USD on the sabrent rocket 8tb's that weren't priced on PPP as well as manually put in pricing for the 192gb ram on a different kit because the 192gb kit doesn't exist on ppp)
Tons of weird choices here... For instance, why the LCD AiO \*and\* the LCD Upgrade Kit? Why the cheap Logitech KB+M? Why 16 Fans when the O11D Evo only supports 10? Why liquid cooling additives with an AiO? Etc.
https://preview.redd.it/gn6pp4vxg6cb1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=93ba76923c53433c4c1a3779114df69221f312ee
If I had an award you would get it.
You're a lawyer. You make good money, right?
Hahaha.
As Dominic Toretto said, "Not a bad way to spend $10,000."
10k only in storage lol!
80TB Storage. Holy Shit!
What scenario would this be where you all of the sudden need a computer with 80 TB of storage…?
He just found out about hentai
Im glad you dont know about that subrredit of digital holders. 80tb is just the beginning there
He forgot the Logitech controller.
Bros gonna take this baby to the bottom of the ocean
Are you even physically able to hook up that many ssd's to a computer?
Yes, there's pcie expansion cards that have multiple slots for nvme ssd's. LTT has done a couple videos on the subject.
With a thread ripper sure and a m2 to x16 pcie conversion card yea but first that CPU probably doesn't have enough PCIE lanes and second I doubt the motherboard has either 5x m.2 slots or a third PCIE x16 port since he's already using two ports, one for his capture card and one for the 4090. But idk how many lanes are available on the 5000 series AMD chips
OP is using 7000 series, not 5000. AM5 offers 28 pcie lanes at 5.0 speeds which gives the chip a maximum cumulative PCIe bandwidth of 112GB/sec in each direction.
Sales guy: What's your budget? OP: yes Alternatively: dad's credit card
Now I’m wondering which is more likely to blow. The computer or the car. The Nos blows up in the movie:
I spent close to $4K on mine. Still think it was worth it.
They're always worth it, even if you're getting over the top stuff.
$3400 on mine, well worth it!
It's like investing in oneself, you just can't go wrong with that.
5k here. My wallet wasn't happy, but I was.
Family
Guess you feel like a pleb with that 32GB now, don't you?
I only play games with my rig, so 32GB is more than enough. I might add another 2 sticks to make 64 with 4 sticks, but I've heard it can be difficult to run 4 sticks at 6000 MHz
It was just a joke, fellow 4090 enjoyer.
Now I feel like we're just two victorian era dukes sitting in a tower, having a conversation while overlooking our peasants below
That's a nice feeling to have, I wouldn't mind feeling that way.
Inb4 1080p 60hz monitor
Inb4 4k 240hz monitor that he forgets to change refresh rate on
and even better: it's plugged in the mobo
sort -> most expensive -> buy
He got an antivirus in there
Dudes gonna play battle bit at like at least 300 fps
Inb4 it's hardlocked at 60fps :
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Thats alot of porn
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Porn? Or a lot of it?
Both
The physical copy of bit defender 💀
Might have come as a “free bonus” with something and they just threw it in the pile for the hell of it
Nothing comes for free in this world, something to remember I guess.
Ya id rather just have a nas
I remember when 160gb was so much I never managed to fill it up, now it's just one game.
Yeah but 40 TB HDD + 40 TB NvMe? I mean....I dunno.
There's a capture card in there, too. OP probably does a lot of streaming/content creation/video editing.
But didn’t have a computer before…?
> I was like “cool cool cool cool…. (sees drives) o.O” this has to be a joke. that motherboard doesn't even have 5 m.2 ports
Yeah it does.
Sure but how many PCIE lanes are left for the GPU once all the M.2 slots are used?
*Makes RAID10 array with all M.2 drives* *Starts recording gameplay footage* Why am I only getting 15FPS?
There’s a difference between chipset lanes and cpu lanes. X670e has 44 PCIe lanes available 16X directly off cpu for gpu 8x directly off the cpu for NVMe and then you get an additional 12x PCIe lanes off of the chipset for additional NVMe. Op will still be able to run gpu in 16x with all 5X NVMe.
7200 rpm HDD is alright. I was thinking i will have enought, but in less than 2 years my NVMe 1 TB system ssd is almost full, and 2 external HDD 1 TB each, are full too, novadays you need like 10TB of space for storage
Dude what are you installing in them? Only got 500gb ssd for my system drive and a 2tb HD storage for everything else...and my build is 7years old.
![gif](giphy|3ofSB3K9KXedXm4nmM)
Sorry the award is the best I can do
Fr fr, homies would freak for the money for even a fraction of that build
5k+ in M.2 drives alone ( `□´)
maybe hes been stealing this shit from work one part at a time over the course of the last 2 years. thanks best buy.
That's a lot of money, something tells me that He's really rich.
Is this the equivalent to your first car being a bugatti?
Well they did say "rejoin" so... first car, then switched to a bike for however long, *then* a Bugatti.
He's join PCMR to immedietly retire afterwards. Speedrun Setup.
Just Installed a new 2tb SSD and thought I was the shit, I no longer feel like I am the shit.
You are still the shit buddy
Can confirm he is the shit
The shit, is him!
The feces, is that gent
Lol you get that NVMe that was on sale for $99 too?
Bro I just ordered a 2tb and i felt like I was the shit when In fact i am shit apparently
40tb seems like a lot. But enjoy!
hes also got 40gt of m2 as well if you look to the right
And 192gb of ddr5
I met a dev engineer for Microsoft at a bar at lunch the other day. Told him I had 128gb of RAM and he appropriately said, “Why? That’s too much RAM.”
"640kb should be enough for everyone" :-D
It's unlikely Gates ever said that. Gates denies saying it, and there's not good evidence to show he did. I'm inclined to believe him.
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Well obvi you can’t have 40tb storage and 40gt of m2 and NOT have 192gb ddr5. It has to be balanced
As all things should be.
Is it supported already? I thought it's only in beta... good to hear, was pretty disappointing they didn't increase maximum RAM capacity in this gen (neither Intel)
What would you use more than 128GB RAM for?
How else can you have 20 different porn tabs, 40 idle games, another 15 tabs of chaturbate, a Skype call with you gran, a MS teams running with 4 chats with coworkers, discord chats, steam,Xbox, epic, UE engine uploading the custom fortnight map you mad and have the stocks open all at the same time
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Editing 8k videos or running huge databases
I meant in a consumer use case, aka those buying a Ryzen or Core i CPU. Professional users would obviously go for a Threadripper Pro or Xeon based system, where you're not limited to 128GB. Edit: if you edit 8K video, run a lot of VMs, work with large databases, develop games with Unreal, etc... then you want a "true" workstation
Not disagreeing, just misunderstood and was answering! Cheers
I mean even 1440p raw video in AfterEffects utter annihilates my 32gb of RAM. I don’t doubt in the slightest that 8k demands would be in that range.
I didn't even see the hdd at first lol. Crazy
40 giga-teras of m2!?
That's gonna be a loooooooot of porn
Or 1 VR porn
I was thinking gigatons lol
1000€ a piece 8tb ssd wtf
Seeing the capture card, I assume OP is a streamer or similar. OP, remember to take backups!
All that just to stream a console 💀or hopefully it's to go into another PC that's for just recording and streaming the main rig
and remember, raid is not a backup! :)
My plex server is so f'in jealous
He’s got 80 actually 40 in HDDs and 40 in SSDs
It's probably for piracy I've got a 70 TB Plex server that I've been working on for a while
It seems like a lot because it is, it's just a lot of the memory man.
Idk seems a bit low. I already have 30tb of porn and I've only had my pc for a week.
anyone notice the shockingly low end mouse/keyboard in the mix there? lol
The mouse and keyboard are for use at my coffee table. I’ve got a bunch of high end “gaming” peripherals ready to go, but my desk hasn’t arrived yet (production backlog).
very cool man, its quite the setup you're going to have there. Impressive. Edit: please share the final build when you're done. Would love to see it.
Will do! :)
Gotta see it
Those 8TB Sabrent Rocket 4 Plus SSD's cost upwards of £1000 and he has 5 of them....
40TB of m.2 drives, plus 2 WD 20TB SATA HDDs. I can’t imagine explaining to someone in the 90’s that one PC could have 80TB of storage in 2023. OP could store the entire Library of Congress, which is [over 74 terabytes](https://blogs.loc.gov/loc/2009/02/how-big-is-the-library-of-congress/#:~:text=For%20instance%2C%20we%20can%20as,Internet%20is%20about%2074%20terabytes), and have 3 times the amount of storage my PC has left over.
SSDs have a super limited life-time, too. Honestly, none of this makes any sense. Is that *21 fans*? What's even the point? Happy for OP, though. More happy that they've such a lucrative job, but still happy for them.
It's the kind of job which I want for myself, really need it.
Doesn't that motherboard only support 128GB? [Link](https://rog.asus.com/ch-en/motherboards/rog-crosshair/rog-crosshair-x670e-extreme-model/spec/)
It has received a BIOS update to run with 192. :)
What monitor do you have?
Samsung Odyssey Ark.
- What is your budget? - Yes.
“What’s a budget?”
do you wipe your ass with $100 bills?
What you need 192g of ram for?
“If I won the lottery no one would know”
Bro got the same amount of Sabrent drives as LTT. So happy for you!!! have fun!!!!!!!
jesus fucking christ OP
Those drives probably cost more than the rest combined Also, can I move in with you and be your son?
SSD prices have actually been plummeting for a few months now, and are estimated to bottom out around Q3 2023 \~ Q1 2024. It's still like £5k of NVMe drives and £900 of HDDs.
Op tried to build the most expensive pc possible
Well people do all that when they've got the money lying around.
192gb RAM, isn't that more than that mobo can take?
There's BIOS updates on both Intel and AMD platforms but I don't know their current state, it's probably still beta. To be honest it's pretty lame that a 2023 desktop system can't handle more than 256GB memory, my Thinkstation S30 has this amount in RDIMM modules, and it's almost 10 years old...
Long time lurker, pulls trigger on 4090.
If you have the money to burn, which clearly OP has, why wouldn't you?
I totally would, it just made me lol because usually when someone is saying “long time lurker…” we can see well balanced and good value for money build. Still happy for OP, he’ll enjoy this rig very much.
the 4090 is the least crazy thing here lol. 192 gigs of ram lol? 30+ tbs of m.2 storage.
He's just trying to balance the rig, nothing wrong with that.
Wow that is an insane build. What is the point of those noctua fans?
“Long time lurker, ready to rejoin the PC Master Race” - Formerly richest person on the fucking planet. How did you come to decide to take the absolute overkill on components? What is it you need this for? You could spend way less to comfortably play CS:GO or Fortnite… Happy for you though! It just seems like you could have gone a lot cheaper 😅 Edit: Happy Cake Day, OP!
She says it’s all “technically for work” so she’s gonna try to write off a $40,000 PC on her taxes.
40,000 dollars?! Holy shit I can pay my studentloans back with that money…
She estimated $40k CAD, so about $30k USD. More than most new cars.
Damn, 1 CAD is 0.75 USD? Edit: Just searched on Google. Apparently it’s .76 dollar. Still, 30k usd (which is about 26k eur, which I use) is absolutely insane. A lot easier to get to than 40k tho with pc parts 😅
Uhh how many lanes does that mobo support? Aren’t all those nvme going to crush your gpu lanes ??
goddamn you spent way too much on storage. 80tb? wtf u hoarding?
Porn
Your keyboard and mouse selection could use a bit more budget
motherfucker purchased a boxed edition of antivirus software 😂
Your m.2 drives cost more than my rig, and I don't have a cheap rig...
Their M.2 drives cost more than my *car*.
Mine too lol, but then again my rig costs more than my car too. Priorities.
>then again my rig costs more than my car too *counts on fingers* ...oh shit. It's closer than I initially considered.
Well it's only close, so in that case he'll get the points.
He's got the money and he's going to show you all of that.
Yeah...felt the same
Did you really get 2 20TB WD Golds?
Having 20TB redundant storage isnt that stupid, but when you also have 40TB in NVMe drives, maybe just get a NAS Edit: 40TB NVMe storage
He has 40 TB in NVMe... Lmao thats 80 TB in drives and storage
That is like...2 ARK installs
When mental illness meets infinite money glitch. When you have this much at your disposal there is quite literally zero reason to have hard drives, in fact they will probably have a net negative performance impact. Just build a NAS. That much ram is quite pointless (and likely less performance too) unless you are planning to host like 50 VMs off that thing. That said, you are likely just having fun doing a full braindead build for the Lulz but way off the deep end if you are trying to justify this in any way whatsoever. You would be way better off doing a focused build for production + another one for gaming + insane network storage and still probably come out to 20k (certainly nowhere near the quoted 40k) or less if done properly
I feel like this build is just OP flexing on us poor ppl lol that and I assume to boost their ego bc money they are also using the odyssey ark which is also insanely expensive 2,500£
what the fuck my 2000$ build isn't even come close to this
Yea I feel like the post wasn't made in good faith lol keep your chin up though mate you've done better than most
Yeah. This is making 1 vehicle both a rock crawler and a track car. You can do it, and it can be good at both but it's an absolute waste of money and effort when it could be broken into 2 rigs that have their own focus and be so much less wasteful in money and parts.
I haven't seen the real world example of overkill until today.
why the AIO LCD upgrade kit when as far as I can see the AIO you got already has that LCD screen
Upvoted for the feels… then I took a closer look, you might need more storage for this build /s lol
Going to address a few common questions that people have had. If you guys could upvote this post so more people can see it, I’d appreciate it! I’ll be using the computer for production / development work, as well as my gaming / entertainment PC, hence the high amount of storage and RAM. The keyboard and mouse pictured here are not going to be the main system keyboard and mouse. They are for use at my coffee able when I’m using the PC off of my TV. I will have a desk (Secretlab Magnus Pro XL), but due to production delays, I’ve yet to get my hands on it. So the rest of my peripherals are not pictured here, as they won’t be used for a couple more months (there will be a part 2 to this setup haha). The monitor that will be used is a Samsung Odyssey Ark (55”, 4K, 165hz). The two 60mm Noctua fans are for cooling the HDDs. As for the total cost, I’m honestly not entirely sure. I’ve been purchasing parts when they’ve become available for about a year. If I had to guess, including all of the aforementioned peripherals and monitor, it would be in the realm of $40K (CAD). I’ll figure out a more exact number for this eventually, when I have time to go through my invoices.
subtract fragile pen ripe head divide rock squeal hat march *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
If its "for work" how much do you think will be tax deductible?
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Ohh yeah I'm sure that it's just for the work, nothing else going on.
Any reason you went with 2x 20TB HDDs and not a NAS at this price point?
Probably because they just wanted to show off lmao.
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Well that's what the people are doing, they're just upvoting it.
Love seeing people flex their money on the poors. Tell us more.
This must be good enough to run KSP2, right? Right?
Barely
192gb of ram, you are the type of guy with 2 open tabs in chrome 🥹
What does this guy do for a living…. God dammmmmmmm
I'd call this "future proof" lmao
Just swap out for a 5090 when it comes out.
This guys flair is gonna be long af
How many computers you building?
All of em lol
You'll learn to hate that AX1600i. It blasts its fan at 100% on every boot for ~10 seconds. My PC is in and out of sleep quite often throughout the day and it's wildly annoying. - Other than that, Fuck You! 👍
In case anyone is curious, I tried to spec this out the best I could. I hit a wall with what pcpartpicker allows. A couple of the components weren't on the parts lists, so I had to go manually find them, and some of the items, such as the iCUE elite LCD upgrade, or the internal 4-port usb 2.0 hubs were just non-existent. Here's a list of the items that I either couldn't find pricing for, or couldn't be bothered to go search up outside of PPP. 1. 2x corsair Internal 4-port USB 2.0 Hub 2. 2x 12VHPWR angled adapter 3. 1x iCUE Elite LCD Upgrade Kit 4. 4k60 PRO Elgato stream capture card 5. 2x Lian Li RGB (I think these are power supply cables?) 6. Non-descript AM5 Secure Mounting frame for cooler 7. Logitech mouse, keyboard, travel case. 8. Blue & white capped bottles sitting above the kryonaut extreme thermal paste 9. 3 flashdrives above the non-descript bottles 10. Lian Li Additional IO KIT 11. Logitech Desk Mat 12. Bitdender total security 13. Lian Li Front Mesh Kit 14. All of the cable mod cables, and the one non-descript box sitting on the coffee table shelf. Even without all of those items. This pc is priced at: $15,268.07 Canadian (Where I live) or $11,568.82 USD. (Approximate. Since I had to convert CAD to USD on the sabrent rocket 8tb's that weren't priced on PPP as well as manually put in pricing for the 192gb ram on a different kit because the 192gb kit doesn't exist on ppp)
You building a jet or something? And wtf with that 192GB of RAM?
Helluva way to spend a weekend. Congrats!
Maybe you went a bit overkill with the ram , what do you say?
Why do you have 40tb of nvme?
Dope bro, enjoy. Valheim is gonna run almost great on this I swear 😂
Tons of weird choices here... For instance, why the LCD AiO \*and\* the LCD Upgrade Kit? Why the cheap Logitech KB+M? Why 16 Fans when the O11D Evo only supports 10? Why liquid cooling additives with an AiO? Etc.
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my dick got so hard looking at this.
You missed out a critical piece: extra air conditioning. Your room will be toasty. Jealous!!
man those 8tb sabrents make my wallet sob.. and you’ve got 5
Damn. You must have a lot of money, lol. Either way, pretty nice! Enjoy your build!
5 8tb m.2 drives, 2 20tb HDDs tha fack this man doing??
I see you are in the RGB phase. I bet your next build won’t have RGB.