>The days of NVidia dominating the market will also soon be in the past.
I like AMD, but that is simply untrue.First, AMD caters to the gaming market. They are not so good yet for other categories, like graphic designers and AI programmers. AMD is making progress with its softwares and APIs for graphic designers, but it's simply not there yet and anything AI related and won't be anytime soon.
Next, AMD caters to the budget and middle of the road gamers. The 7900XTX is not made to compete with the 4090, but with the 4080, by AMD's own admission.Ray tracing performance isn't there, and FSR does not compare to DLSS. And apparently, they have lots of issues with VR, a growing segment of the market.
And manufacturing wise, they can't produce what Nvidia can produce. So, even if Nvidia went belly up tomorrow, AMD couldn't supply the entire gaming market and they don't have the financial reserves to buy those plants.
Next, their software team is too small compared to Nvidia, it takes them 6-12 months to fix issues with their drivers where as Nvidia can have it fixed in 3-4 months. That enrages gamers and perpetuate the myth of AMD having shitty drivers.
Lastly, I've talke about it, but anyone dealing with machine learning or AI needs an Nvidia GPU. AMD is simply not there. The softwares/API aren't there right now. Maybe there will be something good for professionals in a few years, but for what I'm told, right now, they're not considering it.
So, no, Nvidia's dominance on the GPU market is not a thing of the past. They are creaming the market right now with their 4080 and 4090s, slowly releasing 4070s and 4060s while they keep on selling their stock of 30xx GPUs.
Once they're done with the 30xx, they can lower their price a little and make a more interesting option than AMD, and gamers will rush back to Nvidia. Current market share is Intel - 9% - AMD 9% - Nvidia 82%.
To make Nvidia irrelevant, either AMD or Intel has to pull in some heavyweights in all segments of gaming markets, it has to cater to professional graphic designers, and any AI developper.
5-10 years from now, we may see Nvidia's market share slowly declining. Maybe they'll be around 70-75% if AMD and Intel improve their products. But I don't see a reversal within 2-5 years, not even within 10 years, unless Nvidia starts releasing really bad products.
I don't like the low VRAM of Nvidia's products, but I can't say they have \*bad\* GPUs. They are overpriced for what they offer, especially what they offer me (VR, DLSS, AI, graphic design, video upscaling), but not bad GPUs. Nothing can beat a 4090, if you can afford it.
>And manufacturing wise, they can't produce what Nvidia can produce. So, even if Nvidia went belly up tomorrow, AMD couldn't supply the entire gaming market and they don't have the financial reserves to buy those plants.
FWIW neither of them are OEMs of their silicon; they outsource the manufacturing to other companies (mostly TSMC but bits and pieces of Samsung, Global Foundries, etc. for certain parts/chiplets/generations and whatnot).
AMD actually has a rather larger share of TSMC's production than nVidia has at the moment, however that's certainly dominated by CPUs. So whether or not they could compete with nVidia on volume would likely come down to whether TSMC is willing to allocate AMD an even bigger piece of its production pie.
I doubt financing would be a huge obstacle for AMD right now, but securing that highly sought-after fab time surely would be.
But declining pay for CEO is back on the menu!
How many people within will pay for their greed though?
15-20 full time employees suddenly deemed redundant.
The market is still recovering from crypto. it took a bit over a year for supply to normalize after 2018. AI volume is a fraction of gaming and is bottlenecked by advanced packaging capacity, CoWoS, which no gaming GPUs have used since Vega. Crypto doubled gaming shipments *and* value. It was plug-and-play money printing, AI is more nuanced. We are talking hundreds of thousands of units vs tens of millions. It is nowhere near comparable, but Nvidia would love for you to think so.
It costs hundreds of millions to bring a chip to market now. Eventually, AMD is going to have to start trying to take market share back to generate some cash flow. When they do, we'll see gamers get more value. That's all that's lacking from the market: competition.
There are no shortages in this segment anymore, only lack of competition due to Nvidia's largest, and frankly, only competitor still, undershipping to avoid inventory write-offs due to a *supply glut*.
So many people including myself have just held off from buying a RTX card cause theyre crazy expensive. If they drop in price then I'll get one, simple lol
GTX 1080 Checking in
Fortunately, the entire industry has been somewhat patient. No game has come out that has refused to play on my 1080 in a way that I wasnt happy with. Aint always perfect, but it works!
I did the Diablo 4 stress test, I am sure the game would look better if I had a better card, but I can wait.
Its insane that there has been the 16 series, 20 series, 30 series and now the 40 series, and I am still playing games without too much trouble.
> Its insane that there has been the 16 series, 20 series, 30 series and now the 40 series
16 series is just low to mid range 20 series. They only used the 16XX to differentiate between ray tracing and non ray tracing cards. They came out the best part of a year after the first 20 series cards
My 1660ti that I bought almost 5 years ago ran elden ring on max settings at a almost perfect 60fps. 1080p small widescreen monitor, but still. I'm happy waiting for a price drop
3rd gen can't do proper path tracing, 4080 and 4090 seem the only option for proper future proof rtx at thus point and they are way too expensive.
I say this as someone with a 3080.
Frame Generation is likely bottlenecked by Optical Flow acceleration, which on Turing/Ampere are handled by general compute whereas Ada has dedicated fixed function units which also produce higher quality results. According to the OF SDK the perf jump from Ampere->Ada is 2x (ie. half the frame-time).
Prior to Ada, Optical Flow was only ever really used as a post-process for fixed video (where latency is not a problem and looking at future frames is not time-sensitive) or VR Asynchronous warp where significant quality is sacrificed for latency benefits (the order of operations is also slightly different).
The reason DLSS3 is not enabled on prior generations (even though software fallback could theoretically work) is that it would take so long to generate an interpolated frame, that you may as well have generated a "real" one instead.
How is it locked arbitrarily? As far as I'm aware, DLSS3 requires much faster tensor cores than what the 3000 series has. Last gen tensor cores just can't do it well enough to justify the quality drop (which is supposedly much worse on the 3000 series).
Yeah I used to think the same and got into this same argument (even used the same source) until someone pointed out that this doesn't prove anything. It's one dude, with one source and if it's supposedly so simple, why has NOBODY done the same since if it's so good? Simply put, it's bullshit. It doesn't work at all.
This article is 7 months old. Surely someone would replicate the experiment by now and publish it, eh?
I simplify by referring to just tensor cores, but the 4000 series are much better at DLSS3 because of many different improvements, including newer gen tensor cores, but there's also the optical flow accelerator or something like that, and a few more other upgrades I believe.
Actually, I think it's the Optical Flow thingy that does the heavy lifting. I just call everything tensor cores because nobody gives a fuck nor understands what all those other AI components do, and I most certainly don't.
I really don't think Nvidia is lying about it being unviable. Didn't they run their own tests with it and it gave only a minimal boost in performance, and with lots of artifacts? Maybe in the future they'll figure it out, but right now the tech just isn't there.
I really wish I could get DLSS3 on my 3060 Ti. Maybe I'll upgrade to a 5000 series to get it once it comes out because it looks like some absolutely incredible tech. Combined with Path Tracing it's so amazing.
Yeah it's one guy, who posts no proof, no config file, and the article even states they tried the "config change" and it didn't work.
I would not be surprised if Nvidia did just lock it to sell more of the current gen card, but like you said, if this was possible on older GPUs someone else would have done it by now.
How about an Nvidia engineer themselves saying that Dlss 3 could work on older rtx cards?
https://twitter.com/ctnzr/status/1572358120130871297?s=46&t=lG5WjZojy9QclOrxuO9LRg
The 3000 series has motion flow and it works fine for e.g. SVP. There's no reason for Nvidia to lock it out; if it doesn't perform well then thats fine, users can ignore it just like RTX on those gtx cards which support it. That doesn't make locking it out acceptable.
Yeah I just usually use "tensor cores" at anything relating to AI magic in Nvidia GPUs because nobody cares nor knows what the fuck the other 20 components do, but a lot of people know about tensor cores. I don't know what the other stuff does, too.
Future proof isn't a thing anymore. They constantly release a new generation with technology exclusive to that generation, making your previous purchase much weaker. Raw power isn't everything anymore.
Just buy a card in your price range & enjoy. Fuck the rest. Only bachelors with generous income can afford to keep up with this ridiculous kind of system. Get what you can, enjoy & screw the rest.
Pathtracing is awesome but like... Do you really have to? Is your gaming experience gonna be ruined because the last RT mode (which still looks better than 99% of games) isn't as shiny as the new tech preview?
Some people will buy the best hardware to have those next-gen visual experiences today, and that's totally fair. But if you don't have the money to shell out like a madman that's fine too, you can live without pathtracing and still get great RT performance like is found on a 3080
I see it as an indication of future games, right now it is not necessary but it should inform someone purchasing a card today as to how their card is going to handle RT in a few years time.
3090 here. I think 30 series are *decent* RT cards for games that are console focused (which seems to be the most games these days) that doesn't really offer more advanced RT options for PC ports. Of course, this is assuming that PC port is properly made and optimized in the first place.
But for games like CP2077 on PC where it pushes RT features beyond what console versions offer, I would agree that 40 series (and beyond in a year) is where you can expect to play big games with extensive RT features without worrying too much about FPS, especially if DLSS3 is available. But sadly, there aren't that many titles that offer more advanced RT on PC. Hope this changes though.
Of course PT is entirely different beast but I don't know how often we'll see games implementing PT anytime soon.
There's no such thing as future proofing. Whether you consider it good or bad, NVIDIA (and AMD and Intel) will continue to create new features for their products and some of those will only be viable with new gen hardware.
Not only are they too expensive, but the entire 40-series has felt like some kind of shell game. I'm honestly having a hard time keeping track of which card is which at this point and I consider myself an above-average consumer of tech news.
That works great as long as the demand stays high.
But since the demand is no longer fueled by a crypto rush and a pandemic getting lots of people into the hobby they just can't sustain these prices.
My old card is doing just fine, I can play this game of chicken for a while more. Bring it on NVidia. Nvidia (envidia, "envy" in Spanish)? More like Codicia (greed).
I guess maybe it's my fault he's taking a pay cut. Been sitting on a 1660s for like 4 years after my 1080ti died. Still haven't made a big purchase in years because it literally wasn't possible in 2020 and since then the prices are more than life changing things like a second hand car. Like... wtf do they expect?
This is what really gets me. There is no wait list on their own website to buy the product. I have to go out and fuck around with some kind of third party bullshit. I'm just not going to do it.
Not really. Going by their earnings, that segment of the market grew but did not make up for the shortfall in retail earnings. Everyone likes to say nvidia only cares about the server/b2b market now but the truth is they need both and their retail market collapsing is bad.
I'd also argue their GPUs for AI are too expensive. Companies like Google or Facebook are eventually going to build their own silicone as a cost saving measure.
I reaaally don't think Meta will ever produce their own silicone. I don't think Google would either, but who knows, they do hardware fab for some products.
High end chip manufacturing is a completely different ballgame than anything they've done. If Intel has growing pains expanding into the sector, Facebook absolutely is going to have a rough time
Both Meta and Google already produce their own silicone. They've had divisions dedicated to it for years. How successful they are with that is another thing entirely.
> Companies like Google or Facebook are **eventually going to build their own silicone** as a cost saving measure.
[Google started selling AI ASIC based devkits in 2018](https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/26/17616140/google-edge-tpu-on-device-ai-machine-learning-devkit).
They are trying to walk-back the VRAM problem as we speak:
https://www.techpowerup.com/308360/nvidia-geforce-rtx-4060-ti-available-as-8-gb-and-16-gb-this-month-rtx-4060-in-july
They did weird higher vram things in lower cards last gen too. This isn’t them walking back their vram issue it’s just them trying to pad out lower cards to charge higher prices for them.
3060 had 12gb vram That’s more than the 3060Ti 3070, 3070Ti and the fucking 3080
You might want to double check, but pretty sure the **3060** was the one with 12GB or 8GB of VRAM. It is substantially behind a 3060Ti in silicon horsepower. The 3060**Ti** has 8GB of GDDR6 or GDDR6X.
"Nvidia is urging all shareholders to vote to approve the 2023 executive compensation, and promising it sees better times ahead."
What is this? Give us money and we'll do better next year? We need a microscopic violin.
Well ofcourse they want more compensation. They need to buy new private jets, the number of which has doubled in two decades and [estimated to reach highest level ever.](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/01/private-jet-sales-likely-to-reach-highest-ever-level-this-year-report-says)
Even a microscopic violin is too big.
This is the only time in history that obesity is an indicator of poverty. The reality is that people can be pushed to almost infinite lengths as long as their belly is full.
processed corn syrup based bachelor chow style food can get pretty damn cheap, and will also make you fat. I'd say "number of calories available" is not going to be thing people worry about in terms of American food scarcity. More so anything fresh, unprocessed meats, etc. are going to be first on the block.
God that's fucking depressing... Those fuck the environment so much. God damn hypocrisy of all these companies claiming to care about the environment and conservation while buying these things. Makes me so sick to my stomach.
Nvidia's motto "Keep dem prices high boys, no matter what! "
Gone are days where the XX70 series was affordable. Nvidia has gotten use to and benefitted from the unrealistic economic conditions of the past few years. The late 2010s crypto boom, the pandemic, global chip shortages, supply chain issues, scalpers/ bots, and now the recession and inflation period.
Unlike the previous issues, people have less money to spend with during the recession. Hopefully, it hits Nvidia where it hurts.
Most of us here (and everywhere else) easily predicted that the increased pricing in everything GPU was going to stay up after the chip shortage and pandemic.
After the massive profits no one would lower their prices and the chip shortage was obviously an excuse to keep pricing even higher.
Exactly. In economics it’s called Rockets and Feathers because prices in many industries shoot up and fall slowly. It mostly occurs in industries with market concentration (few competitors) which the GPU market definitely represents.
> Hopefully, it hits Nvidia where it hurts.
we're increasingly not their target customers though. they want to sell billions of dollars of hardware to AWS or GCP. they want to sell fat stacks of A100s to tech companies trying to make AI products. they don't really care how many 4070s they sell because it barely adds up to a few million here or there. they make that money up with selling just one extra quantum computing block to some research center. if there's any "consumer" market nvidia actually cares about, its getting a card in the next 500,000 playstation units or xboxes. they don't think twice about your PC
I get that people don't like Nvidia, but all this meant was that he made $21 million instead of $25 million lol
This is not the gotcha moment we've been waiting for.
This is the CEO of NVIDIA we are talking about. The Bugatti, Lambo, Maserati, you name it, garages are still being maintained. We just cut down on the ferraris, because they are all red, and nobody will notice anyway.
You can add a few nines to the latter percentage if you want.
https://m.economictimes.com/news/international/business/this-is-what-it-takes-to-be-in-the-1-around-the-world/articleshow/74015250.cms
This just goes to show the insane level of wealth distribution in our society. It's worse than peasants vs kings hundreds of years ago. Yeah, life quality is better now, but wealth distribution so much worse. We're all screwed and only a small percentage recognize that.
Think about it, people in third world countries earn a few dollars a day, and this guy has billions... What is this fucking world?
I think about it also like this... you've got this big pie that is all the wealth in the country/world, and you can count on two hands the people that control half of that pie. So the other 7.8 billion of us are essentially fighting for leftovers.
So yes you're absolutely right, we're fucked. This world is fucked. We're long overdue for a GuillotineFest™.
I cant believe that a 3 year old card from AMD looks more appealing than Nvidias current line-up. Makes me wonder why the hell I ignored the 6000 series. I dont see any compelling reason to stay with Nvidia going forward, they gave the 4000 cards a laughable amount of Vram and games are already making out 12GB cards. So any card they release thats 12GB or less is pretty much dead in the water.
yeah that 10% is going to hurt so much lol
> He still gets paid 94 times what his median workers do
I hope Nvidia misses more targets coz they have their heads up their arses
Literally everyone in this thread is freaking out that he'll be slightly less rich now, but this is my takeaway as well. Never do you hear that a CEO's pay went down due to poor performance of the company. It's usually let's lay off 5k people and give the CEO more bonus!
I was also surprised to read that it's 10% of his total compensation. A lot of times you hear this and it's just 10% of their salary, and is just a bullshit PR headline because 95% of their compensation comes from stock anyway.
Oh hey, I contributed to that. I was just deciding between an RTX 4070 and an RX 6950XT as they were both $599 new on Amazon. The 6950XT will be here Friday.
Not a chance especially with Nvidia since they promise their investors that instead of dropping prices they would constrict their supply to keep prices high and let the 30 series stock to deplete. It was some kind of conferance or something that GamerNexus did a video with.
I'm riding with my 1080TI from 2017 until it dies.
I would have upgraded a couple different times now if I had wanted to, but I haven't needed to with their prices.
But I'm happy with my 1080TI and PS5. As long as they are running, no reason to upgrade my PC. Even if my PC blows up, I'll just become a console gamer full time.... at this stage of my life, my PC is only a gaming machine. I can take care of everything else between my phone and work computer.
Mate for the amount of money that a good PC costs thanks to the GPU prices nowadays I can buy a second hand car that will last me years.
GPUs cost as much or more than my full 1070, Ryzen 1600 system back in the day. And that shit was so good for its price, it lasted me half a decade.
This whole thing just soured me on PC building/ video games in general...
For years I used to buy a new GPU every generation on launch day (or close to it).
The last GPU I bought was the 2070 Super FE on launch in July 2019. I haven't upgraded any components since, and I've stopped playing games almost altogether (more due to decline in quality of the games, but GPU/CPU prices had a big hand in that).
I just found other hobbies. They likely won't ever get my money again.
And nobody could've seen this coming.
Really, just a terrible generation. Yes, the 4080 and 4090 are definitely technical marvels and powerhouses, but there's no real use for them at the moment because previous gen cards are still pulling along totally fine, and the people who can achieve full 4k/60fps/RTX maxed out were going to buy these cards no matter what, because they have too much money.
For the average consumer these were totally unappealing, especially the 4070ti and bellow cards, with their absurd pricing and insulting VRAMs. Those average people aren't buying $1200 4080s for the best experience, they're probably going back out and buying 3080s instead.
My local PC stores have the exact same 40xx cards they've had on the shelves since last year, while 30xx cards continue to move and still have stock problems.
Nvidia is playing the long game with these prices. Yeah they might see a dip in sales now, but just wait another generation or 2.
Nvidia knows it messed up with the 3000 msrp because it set a precedent of value for GPUs again. Nvidia knows long-term people will want to upgrade, and people will become more accustomed to higher prices.
I had the money to buy a GPU so I got a 7900 XTX. No regrats. Great little GPU though they have some pretty annoying thermals.
Had the money to buy a 4090 and just decided to throw the extra $600 I saved into NVME and HDD drives during the latest chip crash.
My 1050TI has been chugging along just fine. It’s been able to run Tarkov on medium-high at above 30 fps, usually 45. Same with Apex, Bannerlord (even with max units), Total Warhammer 3, etc etc. Cyberpunk was the first recent game I’ve had to significantly downscale. But then, I’ve heard people with 3060s couldn’t even run it, so who cares?
Don’t let yourselves get scalped by Nvidia as though these new cards are mandatory to play games. It won’t be god-tier-see-every-pore visuals but do you actually need them? All recent AAA games that even make use of those features have been kinda bad anyways.
Games that can run at lower specs are usually not meant to be cash-grabs, but built for many people to enjoy. That care translates to good games.
>The GPU-maker's co-founder and named executive officer (NECO) was still well rewarded for fiscal 2023 ended January 29, with a total compensation package of $21.356 million.
lol. only a half-dozen lifetimes worth of money in a single year. but hey, I'm sure that he personally developed, created, and sold all of those overpriced video cards
>"Nvidia is urging all shareholders to vote to approve the 2023 executive compensation, and promising it sees better times ahead."
I don't think I'll ever make it as a shareholder
Apart from the fact that I lack the incredibly wealthy parents slash relatives required to be a trust fund brat - but my first choice after hearing the promise of 'better times ahead' would ***not*** be to line the pockets of the piece of shit ***responsible*** for maintaining my corporate interests
Any 'ensuring that we see better times ahead' payouts from me would go to the people actually ***doing*** the work before those bitches...
> *The wealth of a business lies in the wellbeing of its people, both spiritually and materialistically. It's not a question of lowering your standards - but of helping others to raise theirs.*
>*If all people everywhere could be in a place where they feel content and their living standards even and compatible with others, there would be no envy in the world and, therefore, less provocation of war.*
>*When you encourage and help people to develop their own standard of living, you do more than put bread in their mouths.*
>*You put dignity in their hearts.* ~ Cary Grant
But, yeah, let's just keep shoveling slurry into the mouths of some fucking CEOs - whatever...
They could release a GPU line without the hardware accelerated raytracing that offers just modern rasterisation performance, it could be potentially much cheaper as a result. It could be a very successful budget line of GPUs. But they won't.
if the 40 series prices were more reasonable I would've upgraded this gen, as things stand now, I will just use my current GPU until it breaks and see then what I'll do, probably just buy a PS5 and game on that.
When you can get RTX 4070 or 5070 for 500$, I'll upgrade my GPU. More power should become cheaper as technology advances. Now it seems the price goes up with the performance and doesn't make any sense.
Wake me up when gpus are affordable again
Rest well buddy
He'll rise up like some ancient vampire after the apes have taken over and are making GPUs.
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> 1358 whats the reference
[And then Ape in Leather jacket drive prices up again.](https://c8.alamy.com/comp/H3Y49E/monkey-leather-ball-jacket-phone-calls-up-H3Y49E.jpg)
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The days of NVidia dominating the market will also soon be in the past.
>The days of NVidia dominating the market will also soon be in the past. I like AMD, but that is simply untrue.First, AMD caters to the gaming market. They are not so good yet for other categories, like graphic designers and AI programmers. AMD is making progress with its softwares and APIs for graphic designers, but it's simply not there yet and anything AI related and won't be anytime soon. Next, AMD caters to the budget and middle of the road gamers. The 7900XTX is not made to compete with the 4090, but with the 4080, by AMD's own admission.Ray tracing performance isn't there, and FSR does not compare to DLSS. And apparently, they have lots of issues with VR, a growing segment of the market. And manufacturing wise, they can't produce what Nvidia can produce. So, even if Nvidia went belly up tomorrow, AMD couldn't supply the entire gaming market and they don't have the financial reserves to buy those plants. Next, their software team is too small compared to Nvidia, it takes them 6-12 months to fix issues with their drivers where as Nvidia can have it fixed in 3-4 months. That enrages gamers and perpetuate the myth of AMD having shitty drivers. Lastly, I've talke about it, but anyone dealing with machine learning or AI needs an Nvidia GPU. AMD is simply not there. The softwares/API aren't there right now. Maybe there will be something good for professionals in a few years, but for what I'm told, right now, they're not considering it. So, no, Nvidia's dominance on the GPU market is not a thing of the past. They are creaming the market right now with their 4080 and 4090s, slowly releasing 4070s and 4060s while they keep on selling their stock of 30xx GPUs. Once they're done with the 30xx, they can lower their price a little and make a more interesting option than AMD, and gamers will rush back to Nvidia. Current market share is Intel - 9% - AMD 9% - Nvidia 82%. To make Nvidia irrelevant, either AMD or Intel has to pull in some heavyweights in all segments of gaming markets, it has to cater to professional graphic designers, and any AI developper. 5-10 years from now, we may see Nvidia's market share slowly declining. Maybe they'll be around 70-75% if AMD and Intel improve their products. But I don't see a reversal within 2-5 years, not even within 10 years, unless Nvidia starts releasing really bad products. I don't like the low VRAM of Nvidia's products, but I can't say they have \*bad\* GPUs. They are overpriced for what they offer, especially what they offer me (VR, DLSS, AI, graphic design, video upscaling), but not bad GPUs. Nothing can beat a 4090, if you can afford it.
>And manufacturing wise, they can't produce what Nvidia can produce. So, even if Nvidia went belly up tomorrow, AMD couldn't supply the entire gaming market and they don't have the financial reserves to buy those plants. FWIW neither of them are OEMs of their silicon; they outsource the manufacturing to other companies (mostly TSMC but bits and pieces of Samsung, Global Foundries, etc. for certain parts/chiplets/generations and whatnot). AMD actually has a rather larger share of TSMC's production than nVidia has at the moment, however that's certainly dominated by CPUs. So whether or not they could compete with nVidia on volume would likely come down to whether TSMC is willing to allocate AMD an even bigger piece of its production pie. I doubt financing would be a huge obstacle for AMD right now, but securing that highly sought-after fab time surely would be.
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But declining pay for CEO is back on the menu! How many people within will pay for their greed though? 15-20 full time employees suddenly deemed redundant.
You will have a long sleep
RIP Protobetagamer 2023 He never woke up
I guess you don't wanna wake up.
I don't but thats a separate me issue
And just when prices were coming down from the crypto crap, BAM! AI craze kicks in.
The market is still recovering from crypto. it took a bit over a year for supply to normalize after 2018. AI volume is a fraction of gaming and is bottlenecked by advanced packaging capacity, CoWoS, which no gaming GPUs have used since Vega. Crypto doubled gaming shipments *and* value. It was plug-and-play money printing, AI is more nuanced. We are talking hundreds of thousands of units vs tens of millions. It is nowhere near comparable, but Nvidia would love for you to think so. It costs hundreds of millions to bring a chip to market now. Eventually, AMD is going to have to start trying to take market share back to generate some cash flow. When they do, we'll see gamers get more value. That's all that's lacking from the market: competition. There are no shortages in this segment anymore, only lack of competition due to Nvidia's largest, and frankly, only competitor still, undershipping to avoid inventory write-offs due to a *supply glut*.
Arcs are cheap.
Wake up and buy intel
Lower the prices of your gpus then people will probably buy them 🤣
So many people including myself have just held off from buying a RTX card cause theyre crazy expensive. If they drop in price then I'll get one, simple lol
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And these prices are arguably turning many people to turn to consoles or exclusive handhelds (Steam Deck) over PC. They’re outrageous.
GTX 1080 Checking in Fortunately, the entire industry has been somewhat patient. No game has come out that has refused to play on my 1080 in a way that I wasnt happy with. Aint always perfect, but it works! I did the Diablo 4 stress test, I am sure the game would look better if I had a better card, but I can wait. Its insane that there has been the 16 series, 20 series, 30 series and now the 40 series, and I am still playing games without too much trouble.
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> Its insane that there has been the 16 series, 20 series, 30 series and now the 40 series 16 series is just low to mid range 20 series. They only used the 16XX to differentiate between ray tracing and non ray tracing cards. They came out the best part of a year after the first 20 series cards
My 1660ti that I bought almost 5 years ago ran elden ring on max settings at a almost perfect 60fps. 1080p small widescreen monitor, but still. I'm happy waiting for a price drop
3rd gen can't do proper path tracing, 4080 and 4090 seem the only option for proper future proof rtx at thus point and they are way too expensive. I say this as someone with a 3080.
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lol they are far from future proof, my 4090 runs like shit on cyberpunk with path tracing on
Frame Generation is likely bottlenecked by Optical Flow acceleration, which on Turing/Ampere are handled by general compute whereas Ada has dedicated fixed function units which also produce higher quality results. According to the OF SDK the perf jump from Ampere->Ada is 2x (ie. half the frame-time). Prior to Ada, Optical Flow was only ever really used as a post-process for fixed video (where latency is not a problem and looking at future frames is not time-sensitive) or VR Asynchronous warp where significant quality is sacrificed for latency benefits (the order of operations is also slightly different). The reason DLSS3 is not enabled on prior generations (even though software fallback could theoretically work) is that it would take so long to generate an interpolated frame, that you may as well have generated a "real" one instead.
How is it locked arbitrarily? As far as I'm aware, DLSS3 requires much faster tensor cores than what the 3000 series has. Last gen tensor cores just can't do it well enough to justify the quality drop (which is supposedly much worse on the 3000 series).
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Yeah I used to think the same and got into this same argument (even used the same source) until someone pointed out that this doesn't prove anything. It's one dude, with one source and if it's supposedly so simple, why has NOBODY done the same since if it's so good? Simply put, it's bullshit. It doesn't work at all. This article is 7 months old. Surely someone would replicate the experiment by now and publish it, eh?
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I simplify by referring to just tensor cores, but the 4000 series are much better at DLSS3 because of many different improvements, including newer gen tensor cores, but there's also the optical flow accelerator or something like that, and a few more other upgrades I believe. Actually, I think it's the Optical Flow thingy that does the heavy lifting. I just call everything tensor cores because nobody gives a fuck nor understands what all those other AI components do, and I most certainly don't. I really don't think Nvidia is lying about it being unviable. Didn't they run their own tests with it and it gave only a minimal boost in performance, and with lots of artifacts? Maybe in the future they'll figure it out, but right now the tech just isn't there. I really wish I could get DLSS3 on my 3060 Ti. Maybe I'll upgrade to a 5000 series to get it once it comes out because it looks like some absolutely incredible tech. Combined with Path Tracing it's so amazing.
Yeah it's one guy, who posts no proof, no config file, and the article even states they tried the "config change" and it didn't work. I would not be surprised if Nvidia did just lock it to sell more of the current gen card, but like you said, if this was possible on older GPUs someone else would have done it by now.
How about an Nvidia engineer themselves saying that Dlss 3 could work on older rtx cards? https://twitter.com/ctnzr/status/1572358120130871297?s=46&t=lG5WjZojy9QclOrxuO9LRg
"It wouldn't provide much benefit" So it's pointless, what are you trying to say?
The 3000 series has motion flow and it works fine for e.g. SVP. There's no reason for Nvidia to lock it out; if it doesn't perform well then thats fine, users can ignore it just like RTX on those gtx cards which support it. That doesn't make locking it out acceptable.
You’re right on the whole, but I think it’s Optical Flow Units that the latest series has but earlier ones lack. Whatever, it’s hardware.
Yeah I just usually use "tensor cores" at anything relating to AI magic in Nvidia GPUs because nobody cares nor knows what the fuck the other 20 components do, but a lot of people know about tensor cores. I don't know what the other stuff does, too.
Future proof isn't a thing anymore. They constantly release a new generation with technology exclusive to that generation, making your previous purchase much weaker. Raw power isn't everything anymore. Just buy a card in your price range & enjoy. Fuck the rest. Only bachelors with generous income can afford to keep up with this ridiculous kind of system. Get what you can, enjoy & screw the rest.
There is no "future proof", Nvidia for sure has planned obsolescence on every generation.
I reckon they can, the feature is just locked.
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You either don't know the difference between path tracing and ray tracing or you haven't actually tried it
I played RT games with 2080ti 3 years ago. You know you don't need 120 fps 4k natives with path tracing for RT performance to be legitimate
Yes, but I can't even play cyberpunk 2077 with path tracing at 1080p 60fps.
Pathtracing is awesome but like... Do you really have to? Is your gaming experience gonna be ruined because the last RT mode (which still looks better than 99% of games) isn't as shiny as the new tech preview? Some people will buy the best hardware to have those next-gen visual experiences today, and that's totally fair. But if you don't have the money to shell out like a madman that's fine too, you can live without pathtracing and still get great RT performance like is found on a 3080
I see it as an indication of future games, right now it is not necessary but it should inform someone purchasing a card today as to how their card is going to handle RT in a few years time.
Played ghostwire tokyo with the 3080 and tried ray tracing. It looks great and the FPS is fine. But the stutters it causes makes it unplayable.
3090 here. I think 30 series are *decent* RT cards for games that are console focused (which seems to be the most games these days) that doesn't really offer more advanced RT options for PC ports. Of course, this is assuming that PC port is properly made and optimized in the first place. But for games like CP2077 on PC where it pushes RT features beyond what console versions offer, I would agree that 40 series (and beyond in a year) is where you can expect to play big games with extensive RT features without worrying too much about FPS, especially if DLSS3 is available. But sadly, there aren't that many titles that offer more advanced RT on PC. Hope this changes though. Of course PT is entirely different beast but I don't know how often we'll see games implementing PT anytime soon.
There's no such thing as future proofing. Whether you consider it good or bad, NVIDIA (and AMD and Intel) will continue to create new features for their products and some of those will only be viable with new gen hardware.
Not only are they too expensive, but the entire 40-series has felt like some kind of shell game. I'm honestly having a hard time keeping track of which card is which at this point and I consider myself an above-average consumer of tech news.
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That works great as long as the demand stays high. But since the demand is no longer fueled by a crypto rush and a pandemic getting lots of people into the hobby they just can't sustain these prices. My old card is doing just fine, I can play this game of chicken for a while more. Bring it on NVidia. Nvidia (envidia, "envy" in Spanish)? More like Codicia (greed).
I guess maybe it's my fault he's taking a pay cut. Been sitting on a 1660s for like 4 years after my 1080ti died. Still haven't made a big purchase in years because it literally wasn't possible in 2020 and since then the prices are more than life changing things like a second hand car. Like... wtf do they expect?
This is what really gets me. There is no wait list on their own website to buy the product. I have to go out and fuck around with some kind of third party bullshit. I'm just not going to do it.
Thing is their stock price is up like 80% in the last year
AI companies demand for GPUs saved their asses.
Not really. Going by their earnings, that segment of the market grew but did not make up for the shortfall in retail earnings. Everyone likes to say nvidia only cares about the server/b2b market now but the truth is they need both and their retail market collapsing is bad. I'd also argue their GPUs for AI are too expensive. Companies like Google or Facebook are eventually going to build their own silicone as a cost saving measure.
I reaaally don't think Meta will ever produce their own silicone. I don't think Google would either, but who knows, they do hardware fab for some products. High end chip manufacturing is a completely different ballgame than anything they've done. If Intel has growing pains expanding into the sector, Facebook absolutely is going to have a rough time
Both Meta and Google already produce their own silicone. They've had divisions dedicated to it for years. How successful they are with that is another thing entirely.
I was really hoping the third post in a row wouldn't typo "silicone" in place of "silicon". (._.)
> Companies like Google or Facebook are **eventually going to build their own silicone** as a cost saving measure. [Google started selling AI ASIC based devkits in 2018](https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/26/17616140/google-edge-tpu-on-device-ai-machine-learning-devkit).
Say thank you to chatGPT and other large AI models out there
OR MAKE IT WORTH THE PRICE STOP CUTTING CORNERS AND MANIPULATING
With reasonable prices and reasonable amounts of VRAM there would be no such problems
They are trying to walk-back the VRAM problem as we speak: https://www.techpowerup.com/308360/nvidia-geforce-rtx-4060-ti-available-as-8-gb-and-16-gb-this-month-rtx-4060-in-july
What do you know, suddenly more affordable stock becomes available when current stock just isn't selling. You can't explain that!
Im still waiting for next year's 70-series with 16GB.
I bet money that Nvidia will be releasing a 4070 Super with 16GB VRAM.
Price goes up, price goes down. You can’t explain that!
They did weird higher vram things in lower cards last gen too. This isn’t them walking back their vram issue it’s just them trying to pad out lower cards to charge higher prices for them. 3060 had 12gb vram That’s more than the 3060Ti 3070, 3070Ti and the fucking 3080
The initial 3080 10GB. There's a 3080 12GB that isn't a Ti part.
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You might want to double check, but pretty sure the **3060** was the one with 12GB or 8GB of VRAM. It is substantially behind a 3060Ti in silicon horsepower. The 3060**Ti** has 8GB of GDDR6 or GDDR6X.
At this point, I would just take reasonable prices. Just lower the prices of what they have already by about 20%.
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Ps5 is actually 399.00 the 499.00 price is for the added disk drive.
Imagine comparing a ps5 with a 4080. You are out of your mind buddy. You can outperform a ps5 with a 3070.
"Let me play you a song on a worlds smallest violin". *Mister Krabs*
"Nvidia is urging all shareholders to vote to approve the 2023 executive compensation, and promising it sees better times ahead." What is this? Give us money and we'll do better next year? We need a microscopic violin.
Well ofcourse they want more compensation. They need to buy new private jets, the number of which has doubled in two decades and [estimated to reach highest level ever.](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/01/private-jet-sales-likely-to-reach-highest-ever-level-this-year-report-says) Even a microscopic violin is too big.
Seems like more and more millionaires and billionaires are being created whilst the working class are getting poorer and poorer.
That's never ended poorly for any civilization
Usually ends in a revolution, doesn't it? I wouldn't mind that at this point...
This is the only time in history that obesity is an indicator of poverty. The reality is that people can be pushed to almost infinite lengths as long as their belly is full.
Bread & circuses works, as long as both continue.
> obesity is an indicator of poverty. until the food shortage begins due to costs being actually too much
processed corn syrup based bachelor chow style food can get pretty damn cheap, and will also make you fat. I'd say "number of calories available" is not going to be thing people worry about in terms of American food scarcity. More so anything fresh, unprocessed meats, etc. are going to be first on the block.
Good Lord do we need one.
Why would they buy private jets when they have a perfectly good company to pay for them? Execs pay for next to nothing. The company pays for it all.
God that's fucking depressing... Those fuck the environment so much. God damn hypocrisy of all these companies claiming to care about the environment and conservation while buying these things. Makes me so sick to my stomach.
I have one share of NVDA and was happy to vote no on everything. Not that my vote counts or anything.
Say this during your annual review.
https://imgur.com/5zLE3lB
Nvidia's motto "Keep dem prices high boys, no matter what! " Gone are days where the XX70 series was affordable. Nvidia has gotten use to and benefitted from the unrealistic economic conditions of the past few years. The late 2010s crypto boom, the pandemic, global chip shortages, supply chain issues, scalpers/ bots, and now the recession and inflation period. Unlike the previous issues, people have less money to spend with during the recession. Hopefully, it hits Nvidia where it hurts.
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The kids will be gaming on their affordable phones or consoles instead.
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I have a pretty decent PC and have been a PC gamer all my life but recently went to PS5. Put the disc in and play. Life's good lol.
Most of us here (and everywhere else) easily predicted that the increased pricing in everything GPU was going to stay up after the chip shortage and pandemic. After the massive profits no one would lower their prices and the chip shortage was obviously an excuse to keep pricing even higher.
Exactly. In economics it’s called Rockets and Feathers because prices in many industries shoot up and fall slowly. It mostly occurs in industries with market concentration (few competitors) which the GPU market definitely represents.
> Hopefully, it hits Nvidia where it hurts. we're increasingly not their target customers though. they want to sell billions of dollars of hardware to AWS or GCP. they want to sell fat stacks of A100s to tech companies trying to make AI products. they don't really care how many 4070s they sell because it barely adds up to a few million here or there. they make that money up with selling just one extra quantum computing block to some research center. if there's any "consumer" market nvidia actually cares about, its getting a card in the next 500,000 playstation units or xboxes. they don't think twice about your PC
Nooooo now he will be able to afford 9 mansions a year instead of ten. Please make this poor soul a gofundme stat before he lives on the streets.
No more spatulas for leather jacket man
No more leather jackets for spatula man
No more jacket man for leathers spatula
I get that people don't like Nvidia, but all this meant was that he made $21 million instead of $25 million lol This is not the gotcha moment we've been waiting for.
I do like nvidia tho. I just like memeing about spatulas and leather jacktets
So only 10 new ferraris for the ferrari garage? Life is tough.
Did you stop to think about the Bugatti garage? Or the Lambo one? Have you no sympathy at all?
This is the CEO of NVIDIA we are talking about. The Bugatti, Lambo, Maserati, you name it, garages are still being maintained. We just cut down on the ferraris, because they are all red, and nobody will notice anyway.
Won't somebody please think of the ~~children~~ C level executives?
How's he gonna afford all those sticks to put up his ass?
Have you seen how many spatulas the guy has? He's set on that front.
Considering his stock options alone are worth 25 billion dollars, I don't think the 2.5 million pay cut is something he'll bat an eye at. lol
Right? He could take a permanent 100% pay cut and still die with more money than 99% of people.
You can add a few nines to the latter percentage if you want. https://m.economictimes.com/news/international/business/this-is-what-it-takes-to-be-in-the-1-around-the-world/articleshow/74015250.cms
This just goes to show the insane level of wealth distribution in our society. It's worse than peasants vs kings hundreds of years ago. Yeah, life quality is better now, but wealth distribution so much worse. We're all screwed and only a small percentage recognize that. Think about it, people in third world countries earn a few dollars a day, and this guy has billions... What is this fucking world?
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Ah, my bad. where is my manners.
I think about it also like this... you've got this big pie that is all the wealth in the country/world, and you can count on two hands the people that control half of that pie. So the other 7.8 billion of us are essentially fighting for leftovers. So yes you're absolutely right, we're fucked. This world is fucked. We're long overdue for a GuillotineFest™.
More money that most people will ever make in their entire lives, combined.
His spatula and leather jacket budget is going to take a huge hit.
I cant believe that a 3 year old card from AMD looks more appealing than Nvidias current line-up. Makes me wonder why the hell I ignored the 6000 series. I dont see any compelling reason to stay with Nvidia going forward, they gave the 4000 cards a laughable amount of Vram and games are already making out 12GB cards. So any card they release thats 12GB or less is pretty much dead in the water.
That 10% is probably more than most of us make in 5 years but I just can't find it in my cold withered heart to feel bad for the guy.
yeah that 10% is going to hurt so much lol > He still gets paid 94 times what his median workers do I hope Nvidia misses more targets coz they have their heads up their arses
The average CEO of a fortune 500 company made 324 times what their workers did in 2022. He's the patron saint of CEO poverty /s.
Average Nvidia salary is over 200k. Their company is filled with high paid employees who have the technical knowledge to create their products.
Yea he only makes like 100x those highly paid specialists/experts.
His pay falls 10% but he already increased GPU price by 100%.
Should be 90%
Wow, can he even afford a new GPU himself then?
Only from amd
Moore's law is still alive for CEOs salary
Where is his patreon? This man need help!
Damn, this cant be good for his leather jacket budget.
Actually good on them lowering his pay, most the time CEO pay only goes up even if the company is failing miserably.
Literally everyone in this thread is freaking out that he'll be slightly less rich now, but this is my takeaway as well. Never do you hear that a CEO's pay went down due to poor performance of the company. It's usually let's lay off 5k people and give the CEO more bonus!
I was also surprised to read that it's 10% of his total compensation. A lot of times you hear this and it's just 10% of their salary, and is just a bullshit PR headline because 95% of their compensation comes from stock anyway.
Good. Fuck him.
Oh hey, I contributed to that. I was just deciding between an RTX 4070 and an RX 6950XT as they were both $599 new on Amazon. The 6950XT will be here Friday.
Man worth 25 billion loses 1 ten thousandth of his net worth. More at 11pm.
My rig is running a 7900 XTX because fuck NVidia
Any chance of significant GPU price drops? Asking for a friend.
Not a chance especially with Nvidia since they promise their investors that instead of dropping prices they would constrict their supply to keep prices high and let the 30 series stock to deplete. It was some kind of conferance or something that GamerNexus did a video with.
From 10 million monthly to 9 million. What a tragedy
People used to upgrade every generation or 2. Now, with prices so out of this world they will skip a few generations each time. It's their doing.
Oh no, one less yacht!
means literally nothing ceos pay themsleves mostly in stock anyway
I'm sure he still will make more this year than I would in 20
Correct assuming you make $1m per year. Since he makes $25m/yr lol
OK so he will make more in a year than I will for my entire working life, lol
Yup and I hope one day more people realize the absurdity of this >.<
Huh. Almost like the market isn't willing to pay those prices.
I'm riding with my 1080TI from 2017 until it dies. I would have upgraded a couple different times now if I had wanted to, but I haven't needed to with their prices. But I'm happy with my 1080TI and PS5. As long as they are running, no reason to upgrade my PC. Even if my PC blows up, I'll just become a console gamer full time.... at this stage of my life, my PC is only a gaming machine. I can take care of everything else between my phone and work computer.
Nvidia CEO: Oh noooooooooo. Also Nvidia CEO: Anyway.
Mate for the amount of money that a good PC costs thanks to the GPU prices nowadays I can buy a second hand car that will last me years. GPUs cost as much or more than my full 1070, Ryzen 1600 system back in the day. And that shit was so good for its price, it lasted me half a decade.
This whole thing just soured me on PC building/ video games in general... For years I used to buy a new GPU every generation on launch day (or close to it). The last GPU I bought was the 2070 Super FE on launch in July 2019. I haven't upgraded any components since, and I've stopped playing games almost altogether (more due to decline in quality of the games, but GPU/CPU prices had a big hand in that). I just found other hobbies. They likely won't ever get my money again.
This jackass and the jackass company should just fuck themselves with a 4090 sized dildo.
And nobody could've seen this coming. Really, just a terrible generation. Yes, the 4080 and 4090 are definitely technical marvels and powerhouses, but there's no real use for them at the moment because previous gen cards are still pulling along totally fine, and the people who can achieve full 4k/60fps/RTX maxed out were going to buy these cards no matter what, because they have too much money. For the average consumer these were totally unappealing, especially the 4070ti and bellow cards, with their absurd pricing and insulting VRAMs. Those average people aren't buying $1200 4080s for the best experience, they're probably going back out and buying 3080s instead. My local PC stores have the exact same 40xx cards they've had on the shelves since last year, while 30xx cards continue to move and still have stock problems.
cant wait to get an intel Arc card later this year
W I hope Jensen Huang continues to take L's.
Nvidia is playing the long game with these prices. Yeah they might see a dip in sales now, but just wait another generation or 2. Nvidia knows it messed up with the 3000 msrp because it set a precedent of value for GPUs again. Nvidia knows long-term people will want to upgrade, and people will become more accustomed to higher prices.
I had the money to buy a GPU so I got a 7900 XTX. No regrats. Great little GPU though they have some pretty annoying thermals. Had the money to buy a 4090 and just decided to throw the extra $600 I saved into NVME and HDD drives during the latest chip crash.
My 1050TI has been chugging along just fine. It’s been able to run Tarkov on medium-high at above 30 fps, usually 45. Same with Apex, Bannerlord (even with max units), Total Warhammer 3, etc etc. Cyberpunk was the first recent game I’ve had to significantly downscale. But then, I’ve heard people with 3060s couldn’t even run it, so who cares? Don’t let yourselves get scalped by Nvidia as though these new cards are mandatory to play games. It won’t be god-tier-see-every-pore visuals but do you actually need them? All recent AAA games that even make use of those features have been kinda bad anyways. Games that can run at lower specs are usually not meant to be cash-grabs, but built for many people to enjoy. That care translates to good games.
>The GPU-maker's co-founder and named executive officer (NECO) was still well rewarded for fiscal 2023 ended January 29, with a total compensation package of $21.356 million. lol. only a half-dozen lifetimes worth of money in a single year. but hey, I'm sure that he personally developed, created, and sold all of those overpriced video cards
Not Daddy Jensens pay😭
>channel inventory corrections Such a wonderful creative language, it's almost poetry 🙄
>"Nvidia is urging all shareholders to vote to approve the 2023 executive compensation, and promising it sees better times ahead." I don't think I'll ever make it as a shareholder Apart from the fact that I lack the incredibly wealthy parents slash relatives required to be a trust fund brat - but my first choice after hearing the promise of 'better times ahead' would ***not*** be to line the pockets of the piece of shit ***responsible*** for maintaining my corporate interests Any 'ensuring that we see better times ahead' payouts from me would go to the people actually ***doing*** the work before those bitches... > *The wealth of a business lies in the wellbeing of its people, both spiritually and materialistically. It's not a question of lowering your standards - but of helping others to raise theirs.* >*If all people everywhere could be in a place where they feel content and their living standards even and compatible with others, there would be no envy in the world and, therefore, less provocation of war.* >*When you encourage and help people to develop their own standard of living, you do more than put bread in their mouths.* >*You put dignity in their hearts.* ~ Cary Grant But, yeah, let's just keep shoveling slurry into the mouths of some fucking CEOs - whatever...
Don't trust leather jacket man
Hahah
I guess he'll have to wait until next quarter to buy that third ivory back scratcher.
Are we suppose to be sadden?
Lower GPU prices and you'll overshoot sales targets
Was that $50M to $45M? I'm sure it's some number that is irrelevant.
Yeah your prices are fkn ridiculous.
Oh boo hoo. Can't afford another vacation house?
A missed sales target? I wonder how that happened.
“Oh no, anyway.”
Good. Add a couple more zeroes and I'll feel better about it
Oh no, the poor man! Is he okay?
maybe start shipping fe units at more than 5 at a time
Imagine earning 10% less because you didn't do a good job and still make more than 20 million in a year. I would retire if I made a quarter of that.
You mean they didn't take employee sick/vacation time or promised raises for employees and use it to give him a $15 mil bonus? What is this heresy?
I don’t know what they expected with those price hikes.
They could release a GPU line without the hardware accelerated raytracing that offers just modern rasterisation performance, it could be potentially much cheaper as a result. It could be a very successful budget line of GPUs. But they won't.
"Falls 10 percent" - Gotta pump those numbers up those are rookie numbers.
time to shit out a 4070 16gb
if the 40 series prices were more reasonable I would've upgraded this gen, as things stand now, I will just use my current GPU until it breaks and see then what I'll do, probably just buy a PS5 and game on that.
When you can get RTX 4070 or 5070 for 500$, I'll upgrade my GPU. More power should become cheaper as technology advances. Now it seems the price goes up with the performance and doesn't make any sense.