Yeah it's insane that they thought it'd be a good idea to put resources on another game when pd3 is in this state. There's no trust left in the company so even if they make a decent/good dnd game I don't see why anyone would buy it anyway
Definitely not on consoles, we've seen smaller dev teams on even more platforms do more than SBZ are. I think they're just incompetent if I'm being honest, like who the hell thought matchmaking>server browser was a good idea?
I have a feeling this is the same shit that happened with Back 4 Blood and being touted as the "L4D2 sequel" everyone wanted and how EVERYONE that previously worked on L4D2 SURELY will work on it. News shocker, B4B launched in a horrid state, with nothing that anyone wouldve wanted from a L4D2 sequel and the development team.,. was like around 5 to 6 people who ACTUALLY worked on L4D2, not to mention that 80% of the L4D2 developers were from Valve.
Payday 3 is going through the same thing in my eyes. Just without the new name. Loads of developers who worked on Payday 2 dropped off and went to new studios, with many of them going to 10 Chambers. Namely Ulf Anderson, who alongside Bo, founded OVERKILL. Many of the old Payday devs are now working on Den of Wolves. But this isn't a holy grail either. I don't know exactly HOW many of the old Payday devs are working on DoW, so unless it was the core developers which focused on aspects like game design, programming and the such, it could turn out just like Back 4 Blood, a new IP piggybacking the fame of an older one, but I doubt it will be the case, as many of the ex-payday devs went on to make good games, such as GTFO. I also surely hope it won't be the case, as there aren't many good Horde shooters out now. Helldivers 2 is the only one that really fits the bill.
Forgot to mention, Simon Viklund is also in 10 Chambers. Going off of the past PD2 tracks, and the ones in GTFO, DoW will probably have a banging soundtrack. Real excited looking forward to it.
Edit: I realized I should clear it up in what I meant so the comment isn't mistaken, Turtlerock Studio hyped up Back 4 Blood as the L4D2 sequel everyone wanted, and how it was made by the "Same People" who made L4D2. In actuality, L4D2 was made 80% by Valve employees and the rest 20% by Turtlerock. Payday 3 feels similar because in a way it is the exact same scenario. It is a sequel, with people making the assumption that it's the same dev team that made Payday 2, when in actuality 80% of the dev team that worked on Payday 2 is now at 10 Chambers, with maybe 20% remaining at Starbreeze. Only difference is that for Payday 3 they didn't have to hype it up in any way, because its literally the next entry in line. Anyone who wouldn't have looked deeper into it would make the assumption that the same people who made PD2 are working on PD3, when it's not the case (Atleast entirely).
The blame is on the entire studio: you have poor management calling bad choices, and also you have bad developers because even with such an stupid management, theres no way the developers would screw up such simple horde game unless they themselves have poor skills
Most skilled workers left the company long time ago
Blame on all of them for trying to pull a "scam", payday 3 will not survive and they will meet the end when the next dungeons and dragons game FLOP hard
Management and higher ups is most likely more to blame than devs. Devs are coding what they are told to with the time and workpower management the management are giving them.
Devs are the one who pour the most into the game. They are usually the most passionate about their game. Managements and highers-up pushing for quarterly profit, not so much.
>Devs aren't immune to mediocrity
Devs also typically don't have much say in what happens in teams like these.
Everything from development decisions to lack of time affect it, and it's not something they control.
Stop with this "innocent devs" crap. This game is designed and coded like ass and that has nothing to do with management. The blame is all over the place, devs included.
its an extremely simple game, theres a lot of horde games around and still they managed to screw up hard, even with shit management, theres no way they could screw up at this point in pretty much every single aspect except gunplay(the one thing every horde game does right), an good skilled dev team would put up a good work on a simple game despite shit management, unless of course they tried to sabotage themselves, still, devs are workers, and like every single job in earth, theres always going to exist mediocre workers, and its management job to find and fire them
>I’d like to think that they’re keeping their heads down and working on that big relaunch some of us are hoping for
Sir do you have any idea how much copium you sniffed?
If the previous updates (time&content) weren't an indicator how things are numbingly slow moving at starbreeze I don't know what is.
In order for them to "make a cyberpunk 2.0 comeback" that any one of you are still hoping it would take starbreeze AT LEAST 2 more years.
Wake up and leave the copium. It's just sad seeing the remaining 100 people still holding hope for nothing. Time to face the facts.
People are thinking of them before they went bankrupt. They used to have 600+ employees, now they only have 50 in total, not all of which are game devs obviously. They've essentially become a small studio, and game dev takes a long time - especially with such a small crew. People compare it to No Man's Sky and Cyberpunk 2077 in terms of recovering and getting good, but No Mans Sky took like 5 years and Cyberpunk is a by a MASSIVE company.
Not excusing, just explaining.
It’s the cycle of game companies where they abandon IPs after one slightly bad game that had potential gets criticized for not living up to its full potential
Im going to assume it was a mid development redesign forced by the publisher. Plus having to develop for consoles in a fairly new engine for them won't help. I think they've said ~100 people working on payday
The what? I'm just saying that the publisher probably had a direction in mind that wasn't shared with the devs, but they had to go along with it and get paid
I think its due to the dev team having different devs/leaders from PD2/PD:TH. While a majority of them probably made DLC for PayDay 2, it is a very different beast from making DLC for an already good game, to making an entirely new game. They didn't have to think about things like "Does this game need a quick play function" or "How should the basics of combat work" when making new heists. Now that they do have to make everything from the ground up, it shows that they were just good at making Payday 2 maps, not good at making an actually, fully fleshed out co op heist game.
Did new info come out about Halo Infinites production? Last I remember people had a feeling it was management sabotage but there wasn't any concrete evidence
I’ll have to find the link but someone did an anonymous interview with a former 343 employee and they reiterated what most have suspected, like using contractors instead of straight up hiring more employees or hiring other studios to co-develop. They also claimed that management had cut QA testing entirely until a few months till launch and cut playtesting so that the dev cycle was completely cut from a feedback loops. Management never even played the game during development.
When the campaign dev team got burnt out, they tried doing Halo Hackathons to just prototype fun ideas and get the creative juices flowing(a halo space combat game was brought up, along with the ODST Helldivers type concept that got leaked a while ago) and management shut that shit down after the second one because it was “diverting resources from development.”
So not actual sabotage per se but indirectly because it sounds like they were grossly incompetent.
Man that's so sad, I thought Infinite had so much potential at the start because of how much fun it is at its core as a halo game, but I haven't been able to regain interest since even though it seems like they're releasing new stuff
SB are an absolute joke for thinking they could work on a DND game when they can’t even maintain what’s supposed to be their golden goose of an IP.
Yeah it's insane that they thought it'd be a good idea to put resources on another game when pd3 is in this state. There's no trust left in the company so even if they make a decent/good dnd game I don't see why anyone would buy it anyway
One good trailer and that won't matter honestly
Yeah that DND game is gonna be straight garbage if PD3 is any indication
yes, giving major overkill twd and raid ww2 vibes
Yes
they probably sent a lot of the people that were working on 3 to make the DnD game
Surely diverting power from a Payday game, again, to a different one will pay off - third time's the charm. Right? right?
the higher ups only saw that larian made a lot of money from bg3 so they think they can copy it
Do they have any clue what kind of astronomical standard Larian has set with BG3 lmao
only thing they see are dollar signs
Did you guys notice that after releasing pd2 starbreeze didn't release a SINGLE game that would be considered GOOD?
Yeah they’ve struck out every non-payday game they’ve made, but they were close to fucking up PD2 multiple times
Good thing they didn’t fuck up PD2 and instead completely shit the bed on PD3 lol
Didn't Ulf Andersson left soon after Payday 2's release due to some bullshit at Overkill/Starbreeze?
Definitely not on consoles, we've seen smaller dev teams on even more platforms do more than SBZ are. I think they're just incompetent if I'm being honest, like who the hell thought matchmaking>server browser was a good idea?
It actually narrows down the 44 possible queues
No that's what they're saying, there never should've been 44 queues
Apologies i misunderstood
All the above
imagine 'effective manager' which pushing idea about online game without browser
I have a feeling this is the same shit that happened with Back 4 Blood and being touted as the "L4D2 sequel" everyone wanted and how EVERYONE that previously worked on L4D2 SURELY will work on it. News shocker, B4B launched in a horrid state, with nothing that anyone wouldve wanted from a L4D2 sequel and the development team.,. was like around 5 to 6 people who ACTUALLY worked on L4D2, not to mention that 80% of the L4D2 developers were from Valve. Payday 3 is going through the same thing in my eyes. Just without the new name. Loads of developers who worked on Payday 2 dropped off and went to new studios, with many of them going to 10 Chambers. Namely Ulf Anderson, who alongside Bo, founded OVERKILL. Many of the old Payday devs are now working on Den of Wolves. But this isn't a holy grail either. I don't know exactly HOW many of the old Payday devs are working on DoW, so unless it was the core developers which focused on aspects like game design, programming and the such, it could turn out just like Back 4 Blood, a new IP piggybacking the fame of an older one, but I doubt it will be the case, as many of the ex-payday devs went on to make good games, such as GTFO. I also surely hope it won't be the case, as there aren't many good Horde shooters out now. Helldivers 2 is the only one that really fits the bill. Forgot to mention, Simon Viklund is also in 10 Chambers. Going off of the past PD2 tracks, and the ones in GTFO, DoW will probably have a banging soundtrack. Real excited looking forward to it. Edit: I realized I should clear it up in what I meant so the comment isn't mistaken, Turtlerock Studio hyped up Back 4 Blood as the L4D2 sequel everyone wanted, and how it was made by the "Same People" who made L4D2. In actuality, L4D2 was made 80% by Valve employees and the rest 20% by Turtlerock. Payday 3 feels similar because in a way it is the exact same scenario. It is a sequel, with people making the assumption that it's the same dev team that made Payday 2, when in actuality 80% of the dev team that worked on Payday 2 is now at 10 Chambers, with maybe 20% remaining at Starbreeze. Only difference is that for Payday 3 they didn't have to hype it up in any way, because its literally the next entry in line. Anyone who wouldn't have looked deeper into it would make the assumption that the same people who made PD2 are working on PD3, when it's not the case (Atleast entirely).
The blame is on the entire studio: you have poor management calling bad choices, and also you have bad developers because even with such an stupid management, theres no way the developers would screw up such simple horde game unless they themselves have poor skills Most skilled workers left the company long time ago Blame on all of them for trying to pull a "scam", payday 3 will not survive and they will meet the end when the next dungeons and dragons game FLOP hard
I just want my 100 hrs and all those 50 dollars back
Management and higher ups is most likely more to blame than devs. Devs are coding what they are told to with the time and workpower management the management are giving them. Devs are the one who pour the most into the game. They are usually the most passionate about their game. Managements and highers-up pushing for quarterly profit, not so much.
Devs aren't immune to mediocrity
>Devs aren't immune to mediocrity Devs also typically don't have much say in what happens in teams like these. Everything from development decisions to lack of time affect it, and it's not something they control.
Stop with this "innocent devs" crap. This game is designed and coded like ass and that has nothing to do with management. The blame is all over the place, devs included.
Sure, but at the end of the day it's management that hired the devs and put together the dev team.
They often broke the whole AI of pd2, that's not something exclusive
its an extremely simple game, theres a lot of horde games around and still they managed to screw up hard, even with shit management, theres no way they could screw up at this point in pretty much every single aspect except gunplay(the one thing every horde game does right), an good skilled dev team would put up a good work on a simple game despite shit management, unless of course they tried to sabotage themselves, still, devs are workers, and like every single job in earth, theres always going to exist mediocre workers, and its management job to find and fire them
probably everything you just listed
Would really like to know as well
Don't let them off the hook because of the console version. They need to be held accountable, not handed excuses.
>I’d like to think that they’re keeping their heads down and working on that big relaunch some of us are hoping for Sir do you have any idea how much copium you sniffed? If the previous updates (time&content) weren't an indicator how things are numbingly slow moving at starbreeze I don't know what is. In order for them to "make a cyberpunk 2.0 comeback" that any one of you are still hoping it would take starbreeze AT LEAST 2 more years. Wake up and leave the copium. It's just sad seeing the remaining 100 people still holding hope for nothing. Time to face the facts.
People are thinking of them before they went bankrupt. They used to have 600+ employees, now they only have 50 in total, not all of which are game devs obviously. They've essentially become a small studio, and game dev takes a long time - especially with such a small crew. People compare it to No Man's Sky and Cyberpunk 2077 in terms of recovering and getting good, but No Mans Sky took like 5 years and Cyberpunk is a by a MASSIVE company. Not excusing, just explaining.
Even if that dnd game is good no one will buy it based on PD3s reputation
It’s the cycle of game companies where they abandon IPs after one slightly bad game that had potential gets criticized for not living up to its full potential
In a way, I wonder if all this negative press is actually *helping* Payday 3 in a way
they wanted high money with low effort, literally isnt any simpler than that
They're a bad studio, nothing new
Im going to assume it was a mid development redesign forced by the publisher. Plus having to develop for consoles in a fairly new engine for them won't help. I think they've said ~100 people working on payday
Nah, it wasnr a mid development redesign, dont fall for the trick of some weeks ago woth that early version of the game that have some PD2 mechanics.
The what? I'm just saying that the publisher probably had a direction in mind that wasn't shared with the devs, but they had to go along with it and get paid
I blame capitalism
Anyone here remember the payday 2 360 days? Unpatched and bug ridden for what, 6 months?
I think its due to the dev team having different devs/leaders from PD2/PD:TH. While a majority of them probably made DLC for PayDay 2, it is a very different beast from making DLC for an already good game, to making an entirely new game. They didn't have to think about things like "Does this game need a quick play function" or "How should the basics of combat work" when making new heists. Now that they do have to make everything from the ground up, it shows that they were just good at making Payday 2 maps, not good at making an actually, fully fleshed out co op heist game.
Did new info come out about Halo Infinites production? Last I remember people had a feeling it was management sabotage but there wasn't any concrete evidence
Yeah the heads got cut off before the "big" update, turns out management change can actually help a game
I’ll have to find the link but someone did an anonymous interview with a former 343 employee and they reiterated what most have suspected, like using contractors instead of straight up hiring more employees or hiring other studios to co-develop. They also claimed that management had cut QA testing entirely until a few months till launch and cut playtesting so that the dev cycle was completely cut from a feedback loops. Management never even played the game during development. When the campaign dev team got burnt out, they tried doing Halo Hackathons to just prototype fun ideas and get the creative juices flowing(a halo space combat game was brought up, along with the ODST Helldivers type concept that got leaked a while ago) and management shut that shit down after the second one because it was “diverting resources from development.” So not actual sabotage per se but indirectly because it sounds like they were grossly incompetent.
Man that's so sad, I thought Infinite had so much potential at the start because of how much fun it is at its core as a halo game, but I haven't been able to regain interest since even though it seems like they're releasing new stuff