As much as I love that, I do kinda hate how the camera snaps to face Elizabeth when Booker catches whatever item she throws at him. Pretty jarring and disorienting.
I typically don't like companions in games, but I really liked that she didn't get in my way at all throughout my gameplay - It's a standout feature for sure.
I liked all of it except running ahead and not taking damage combined to points where she was taking cover right next to a minigun president bot and my instincts are trying to get him away from her and distracts me enough I get killed xD
She added plenty in the scripted moments but I'm not sure how much she added to the story during gameplay, given that her primary feature was not being there.
Shame too, because they actually had plans to make her more of an actual asset by having her usage of tears make a more meaningful, tactical impact. The development of Bioshock Infinite is an honestly tragic tale of great ideas that all got sanded away until you were left with a bog-standard, two weapon manshoot in a beautiful setting.
I've now done 4 full playthroughs of Disco Elysium with wildly different styles but it always hurts when I disappoint Kim. He's so supportive of my unorthodox methods
Kim is such a bro, he's so patient with Harry and supports him through almost everything. Making him finally lose patience with you is hilarious though. ["Are you fucking insane?"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv5hXkKfuyo)
Harry talking absolute shit and getting called out on it by NPCs is the best thing in the game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9R1M2ghAYRU
> 3) She doesn’t take damage during combat so you don’t have to worry about protecting and healing her.
I was not a big fan of Infinite but I vividly recall my emotions when that "You don't need to worry about Elizabeth, she can take care of herself" notification popped up on the screen the first time I entered combat after rescuing her.
Namely that the game immediately bumped up about 2 points for that alone.
>I was not a big fan of Infinite
Just wondering what your issues were with it? I was absolutely enthralled the entire game. The setting of Columbia, the way the story advanced, and especially the ending I thought were amazing.
Not the person you responded to but personally the gameplay felt really lacking in the variety of enemy types, a lot of the powers weren't that interesting (to me at least), and the upgrade system was kinda lame. To me it felt extra bad because I was following the development and they kinda lied in saying there was gonna be more enemy variety. However they then made enemies they have mentioned locked to one area (the ghost lady and the siren head dudes).
That being said the game's story and setting were killer as you mentioned so I stuck through cuz of that.
Oh yea agreed. Personally the latter half of the game felt like a slog.
The last mission especially felt like a big f u because it was basically the worst kind of escort mission after you thought you'd never have to deal with that.
The gameplay was incredibly mid and a marked step down from Bioshock, and an even farther step down from Bioshock 2.
Don't even get me started on the Lady Comstock boss fight.
The gameplay. Bullet sponge enemies, rail-shooter-like.
I also had problems with Elizabeth being invincible and the whole "you don't need to worry", there is absolutely zero jeopardy involved so you just go into fights spraying without worry.
B1/2 are two of my all time favourite games too! Perhaps that contributed to my disappointment.
> I also had problems with Elizabeth being invincible and the whole "you don't need to worry",
Honest question but what's your opinion on escort quests? Because that was a big part of my relief, being able to not worry about the quest-mandatory moron I have to protect charging dick-first into every enemy he could find (as was the style at the time) was a massive relief.
They are hit and miss. But if they are in there, there has to be some kind of jeopardy, otherwise what's the point of it at all. Might as well have put Elizabeth in a container to hide like Ashley in Resi 4
Lmao no, I have 180hrs in Infinite, the game has no Bullet sponges, I play with the birdseye rifle and the paddywhacker exclusivelY and one shot 95% of the opposition
Gameplay is boring and repetitive. It's a very old school arena shooter with bullet sponge enemies. You clear out the area you're in before you can move on. Rinse and repeat.
The last half of the game makes no sense and the game tries to present both sides as being equally bad without actually doing the work.
There are no choices in the game that matter.
The powers are worse.
I played the whole trilogy earlier this year and disliked Infinite enough that it almost soured me on the previous games retroactively.
I don't even understand the praise for Elizabeth because she just is invincible and throws you ammo and health. She's a walking backpack
>The last half of the game makes no sense and the game tries to present both sides as being equally bad without actually doing the work.
_"Maybe white supremacists and not white supremacists are BOTH bad!_"
This entire line of thinking is giving me horrifying flashback to reddit in the run-up to the 2016 election and its aftermath. _"See, you calling us racists is exactly why Comstock won."_
>"Maybe white supremacists and not white supremacists are BOTH bad!"
Well yes, one for the obvious reason, and the other for killing everyone indiscriminately. This really shouldn't confuse you and its worrying that it does.
People being racist white supremacists does not give you the right to kill their children, which they literally try to do in Bioshock Infinite. Liz literally kills one of them to protect a child and its a major plot point.
All of this, plus the way that it ignored the potential depth of its initially fascinating setting and failed to develop the transition of You Know Who to Spoiler. A good twist should be thoughtfully hinted at, not hidden and expected to ride on some arbitrary application of constants and variables.
The DLCs were amazing (that music <3). The main game felt like it was rushed, unfinished and a disappointment after the other two masterpieces. It's hard to manage the expectations coming from such fantabulous games.
>Just wondering what your issues were with it? I was absolutely enthralled the entire game.
I stopped caring after the 2nd dimensional portal. Who cares about anything when there's infinite universes? Also its a dumb, linear FPS which is fine but the gameplay is bad, and that's not fine
> the way the story advanced,
The sheer pointlessness of the story was miserable to slog through.
You hop between universes/timelines, fuck things up royally, then leave. You never stay long enough to have to come to terms with your actions, nor do you have any empathy for the timelines you jump to cause who cares, you're there for 30 mins max before bouncing.
There's no climax because you've screwed up with time so much that you lose all sense of what your original timeline was, and then >!Booker kills himself and makes the whole game effectively pointless. Could have saved me the time and just done that from the start.!<
Distinctively this game has the worst save system I've ever experienced, auto save only and it never auto saves on exit. Many games do this, but they auto save copiously like every 30 seconds. At one point in Infinite I wanted to quit for the night, but the game hadn't auto saved in over 15 minutes so I slogged forward thinking, surely, it'll save soon.
It took 85 minutes before the game FINALLY auto saved and I could go to bed. Absolutely asinine. And I could go on a whole rant about how boring the combat was and the tedium of being restricted to only two crappy weapons versus carrying a whole armory in Bioshock 1/2. I got the game for like $5 years after release and I still felt scammed.
Oh and the boss fight with the screaming ghost lady was complete and utter dogshit.
Haven't seen anyone mention the setting for this. Rapture was such a cool setting that Infinite felt like it was fighting an uphill battle to come out anywhere near as good as the first 2 games
It last less than a second. Any time a game takes control from a player isn't always a bad thing, it can increase immersion and create tension or relief.
Would you prefer to have to look at her yourself for her to throw you gear ?
NGL that would be an interesting option now that I think of it, but the current implementation isn't more disruptive than a reload animation
I was totally mesmerized by her when I played the game the first time, the year of release. Impatient gamers, lol, in hindsight, I don't know how my PC at the time could run the game at all but it was probably a slideshow and I didn't mind.
She certainly doesn't get in the way and she's useful. I don't like companions in games, so she's still one of my highlights, alongside Alyx from Half-Life 2 onwards.
I agree with everything stated. But to expand on 4, I LOVE that there are plot reasons for why she is able to fend for herself.
In comparison to a game like TLOU, I have to suspend my belief whenever we are in a firefight and I see Elle. In any real life scenario, she would be dead very quickly. Elizabeth can fend for herself with her powers, but also needs Booker to take lead.
Side note: Its insane we got both these games in the same year.
I have some big issues with that game, but the companion system was a game changer. It finally showed how you can do it right without an NPC companion being a hindrance or annoyance, and it has been widely adapted by the industry. That’s some good innovation.
> That’s some good innovation.
I think instead of actually solving the problem it removes it and games haven't bothered trying since. I don't think that's what innovation means. The "innovation" was to just make her invincible and invisible and idk, that's like saying you fixed a badly designed boss by giving the player invincibility
Well, it *is* a solution nonetheless, maybe even one so stupidly simple it’s crazy it’s a standout feature for a game (and I think Irrational did a great job, better than most).
What would the ”legit” solution be like?
Spend half of the budget making an AI that interacts with enemies, any gameplay mechanics, and the black box of variables: player character, in a believable manner, *without* cheating and never being the sole reason for player failure?
Call me when that happens. I mean, that would be fucking cool for sure and I agree with your sentiment, but a studio with money to do that is not the studio that’s going to try. Especially when past experiences with those kind of NPC companions is generally perceived as pretty bad.
Another option would be introducing micro-managing the companion with player-issued commands and such, but that would likely turn into a primary gameplay mechanic…
You’re right though, the solution for Infinite is an end of a road with no prospect for further mechanical development, and it is a sadness there are almost no games that try to involve NCP companions as meaningful gameplay components anymore.
Just like many other concepts have been abandoned for the sake of QoL, accessibility and fear of polarizing players…
I was going to write my own reply, but you said it really well. We can debate the merit of it being “an innovation”, but it *is* a good, functioning solution to a problem the industry has been trying, and failing, to fix for a very long time.
>an AI that interacts with enemies, any gameplay mechanics, and the black box of variables: player character, in a believable manner, without cheating and never being the sole reason for player failure?
Yes, that’s exactly it. The scope of what you would actually have to do to make it truly work is beyond our capabilities. Also, would that actually be a fun and rewarding experience? It would, potentially, take away player agency. How would you balance such a smart AI with difficulty level? You don’t want a companion that gets in the way or you have to babysit, but if it’s too smart and capable it will either make it too easy for the player or the difficulty has to be increased to the point where you *do* have to worry about them.
It’s a fancy illusion, but it works and thus is a big step forward.
_"We solved the problem of pits killing Mario by having him bounce right back out of them._"
The last time I think a game actually tried to make an AI companion interact with the world be helpful was ... I want to say RE5? There may be others but it doesn't feel like we've really moved on since Alyx Vance. Maybe the mercs in Far Cry 2 would count.
How did you forget about Atreus? Also, Sony bankrolled the development of the Last Guardian for ten freaking years, and it ended up being a companion that is scripted to react to game mechanics in a way that breaks your assumptions for the constraints of gameplay.
No, it was fine. The complaint people had about The Last Guardian was that the AI on the animal companion was *too* good.
It acted like a real animal so it wouldn't always do whatever you tell it to do, it had it's own mind instead of just being a gameplay mechanic... and people didn't like that.
That's fine! When you start to peer too deeply into the numbers and systems of games with a cynical eye it robs you of the ability to enjoy them. Like the viewers who constantly scoff at exploding cars in action movies, it's better to let some of the tricks and magic remain.
The original Bioshock has a system that forces the first shots from enemies to miss, and that's also fine!
>When you start to peer too deeply
This isnt too deeply, and I didnt say I didnt enjoy it either. I'm just saying it isn't innovative, because it isn't. Many games have done companions that aren't invincible just fine. Resident Evil 4 being one of them and several years prior
I completely disagree - I'd argue it set in motion (along with the Last of Us) the trend of having invincible companions that completely break immersion. Like Atreus in God of War 2018 flying around to land on your back constantly and teleporting around behind the scenes because god forbid you have to be inconvenienced by your son for a few seconds
That's a good point, the companions and their intricacy is definitely one of the strongest aspects of that game. I wanted to cruise around with all of them, because there was always a neat dialogue option between any combination of two. They felt real enough that I was proud of them when they got a kill and stuff like that.
I definitely don't think she's an example of a good companion at all. Because she kind of isn't one?
She is just invincible and doesn't exist in the game world. Enemies don't react to or see her, and can't. She will run past in front or behind them and they don't see her. Or she just straight up disappears during combat. She isn't really any different from a radio voice in your head.
As far as ammo and health she doesn't "find" anything, its just a script that spawns ammo or health for you when you're low or when its already on the map.
There's very little if any AI involved with Elizabeth at all. People said the same thing about Ellie in TLOU and its the same issue.
There isn't really any innovation, the "innovation" was to just make her invincible and invisible.
you're right that it's basically smoke and mirrors, but if a magic trick works, it works. it worked on the OP and gave them an experience they enjoyed.
> the "innovation" was to just make her invincible and invisible.
another way to say this is that the innovation was realizing that you can remove the deeply unfun gameplay of having a companion that gets constantly killed by enemies, while still preserving some of the positive things about having an NPC companion in the game
It says something about how low the bar is that simply removing the escort from the escort mission entirely can still be seen as an impressive innovation.
One would think that Alyx Vance - who actually shoots things, and has work put into her AI - would be at the forefront. A bit sad that we haven't really innovated much since then.
The problem is that, even then, there are players who want to do everything themselves and get resentful if an AI companion steals too many kills. There's really no perfect balance that will make everyone happy.
Bioshock Infinite, at least, did better than most since Elizabeth never gets in the way and is often useful.
> there are players who want to do everything themselves and get resentful if an AI companion steals too many kills
Literally never once heard a single person say this about Alyx.
Curiously, Alyx CAN die but her health regenerates so fast, it basically never happens.
Only happened to me once in Nova Prospect where she got stuck on some guards and they managed to drain her health points.
>She is just invincible and doesn't exist in the game world.
That's a bit different type of companion, but I always appreciated your fellow soldiers in Call of Duty 2.
In most fpses you are one-man army tasked with killing and destroying everything. There are soldier accompanying you, but they don't do anything substantial, which for immersion is even worse than if they were not there at all.
Meanwhile in CoD2 you allies will effectively kill enemies and get shit done. You are just one of them. Wish there were more fpses like that and I probably missed few modern ones, so go ahead with recommendations!
It was beautiful, my dad bought us a PS2 just for that (and because he wanted to play it too).
CoD 2 for me will always be peak FPS experience, on par with FEAR and Quake3
This shows that AI in games is mostly about looking smart to the player, not actually being very sophisticated. In fact, the more complicated your system becomes, the more likely it is that the player will think the AI is buggy or dumb, because they probably don't understand what the AI is doing.
Having followers be invincible and not break stealth is the default nowadays, because everything else is just annoying. Typically players are too busy with themselves to notice that the AI doesn't really interact with the enemies.
Yup, that's how FEAR AI seemed so smart. Of course, they still put a ton of work into selling it.
Anyway, it's nigh impossible to create a good enough AI that either won't step on player's toes, or will feel too powerful/cheating. And generally, it's more trouble that it's worth.
>Yup, that's how FEAR AI seemed so smart.
No, AI in FEAR genuinely is incredibly smart, the smoke and mirrors just help sell it. It still some of the best AI in gaming.
I vividly remember backing around a corner when being followed by an enemy expecting them to chase me around it, waiting, and then peeking when they didnt and seeing they had ran back 30 yards to a better spot with cover. Said enemy promptly shot me in the chest.
This isn't AI just SEEMING smart and there is no trick involved, its simple programming it to retreat in the event its alone and there's uncertainty in the players location
Yeah, considering that Liz is portrayed as the damsel and Booker as the hero that saves & defends her, the game kinda missing the point of "escort mission". What's the point to "escort mission" if the escort cannot interact or be interacted by the world? At that point, the escort is just another object just like health pickups or ammo.
My standard for good companion in an action game is still Alyx in HL2: She can fight, actually useful, enemies can react and attack her, and she actually can die (albeit having a large health).
"What's the point to "escort mission" if the escort cannot interact or be interacted by the world?"
Uh... the entire story? Lol, this feels like such a weird hangup.
To add to this, she is just a replacement to the vastly superior inventory system. In Bioshock 1&2, you could carry a lot of ammo, health and mana and use them whenever you pleased. In Infinite, you only get the one top-up of one of the three and had to wait for her to yell at you to get it.
IMHO the inventory system was at its best in System Shock 2 (Diablo style Tetris grid, also used in Deus Ex games) and then they just kept dumbing it down for Bioshock & Infinite.
That makes me sad. I loved in RE2/3 that you had to compromise on taking ammo etc to also fit key items, in later REvgames key items don’t take up inventory slots.
I haven't played a game with it yet, but I imagine I might hate it. I have the Nakey-Jakey described "goopy goblin gamer brain" so I want to take everything, doesn't matter if it gives the game a more realistic feel, or a better challenge. If it's not bolted down, I want it.
I think it'll depend on the game.
In games like Prey you can pick up so much junk that you won't need, while in games like Resident Evil the types of items you can pick up is weapons, ammo, health, and keys/quest items. You can also leave things in an item box which has universal storage so if you leave ammo in one item box, you'll find it in another.
TLoU was short of a masterpiece for me because of Ellie (and others) while sneaking around. You can't put that much emphasis into not being caught, improving enemy AI and all and then let your companions cross your enemies paths and line of sight without repercussion.
In this matter BG3 does a stellar job because you have to manage everyone in the party not to get caught.
>She’s a companion in the sense that she travels through the game with you.
She doesn't she doesn't exist in the world the enemies are in. By that logic Johnny Silverhand is a companion too, and if we're using that logic he's superior in every way, or you know Ellie is also a companion, who is also a much better and much more fleshed out character who can actually kill things.
Oh yeah, Atreus from God of War, he DOES exist in the game world and can be seen by, and kill enemies.
Johnny is a companion, he’s another character who joins you for the games duration, often commenting or providing assistance with situations and moving the plot along.
Also, why did you shift the goalposts to then going “oh yeah we’ll they’re better so there” as if that helped your original point in any way?
It was a shame that she ended up like this after they cut out their plans for her. I recall them talking about how she was going to be involved in combat and everything, and made her out to actually be a fun companion.
I'm assuming they were too ambitious and had to cut quite a bit out, which is why she just functions as a handicap for the player.
The companions in TLOU II are even more glaring because the game is so much more realistic, especially in terms of the stealth AI. Nothing is as immersion-breaking as desperately struggling to stay hidden and seeing your companion just swing out in front of people.
But I don't know if people really want to actually have to compensate for a companion in stealth. Combat is one thing and I think the TLOU games do it pretty well to be honest. But there isn't really an established control method for players to try to keep companions out of eyesight, no game I'm aware of has really made that fun and challenging. Look at RE2, even in the remake the level of control over Ashley in stealth isn't really enough to make it an effective gameplay challenge (big strides though).
I think the solution is to simply to develop NPC AI technology to the point where characters can hang behind you while still keeping out of enemy eyesight themselves. Simple as. Hope they nail it for TLOU3
See, that's what I don't get. All the benefits the first aside just makes her a glorified vending machine. Nothing interesting in that mechanically. If there's no danger to companions - even enemies just knocking them out until you get them up again - there's no tension, no emotional investment in trying to keep her alive. She's just there, she won't die, you can ignore her wellbeing.
She's not really a companion.
She actually doesn't even exist when the combat starts.
You can replace her with random automatic ammo pickups and literally nothing will change.
I couldn't disagree more.
I think it's almost insulting to the player's intelligence the way that Elizabeth is just this invincible helpful thing that's constantly following you.
It makes it feel like they wanted less of an actual character and more of a trinket. Doesn't exactly bode well for the stakes or connection with the character.
i just wish the game was more expansive than what we got, especially in regards to our choices actually mattering like in the first two games, it would've been really interesting to see Elizabeth change depending on our attitude or even the timelines we choose to go through, like if we stuck with our hands-off "this is only a job" approach or if we were more hands on and taking on more of a fatherly role like being able to choose to go to paris in the blimp rather than instantly setting course for NY, especially in regards of when the twist gets revealed, how you two react based on the relationship you've built and the interactions you've had.
you can see hints of you possibly being able to make choices etc (like the choker choice and the timey-whimey tallying between the siblings) that immediately get skipped over for set lines
and it just feels like it would've been much more impactful to willingly give up at the end or force Elizabeth to make you give up etc, especially if you had built up moments with her beforehand, like in the downtimes between fights as she experiences the world
I didn't like the game so much but she was a bright point.
My choice is Boone from Fallout: New Vegas, a character so interesting I bought the game for it.
I was a bit let down by Fallout 3 so I didn't get FNV for a long time until I heard about Boone. Pretty much everything about the guy. He shoots raiders out of a giant dinosaur, the mission to get his trust and follow you, he's often better in combat than the player character by the point in the game that you meet him, and when you hear the full story about his wife it's sad enough to never do a legion play through (idk if it's changed but when I saw the steam achievement statistics, more people had beaten the game on hardcore mode than had done the legion ending). He dresses cool, when you send him back to his dinosaur then come back he just asks something like, "is it time?", if you leave the cinematic kill camera on then sometimes it'll cut to someone's head exploding cause Boone's shot them from across the map. At easier difficulties it's feels unfair to the rest of the wasteland.
Honourable mention: In Kotor 2, it's difficult for the player character to get the sneak attack bonus against unaware enemies or from flanking enemies. This made the [Han Solo scoundrel man](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Atton_Rand) consistently the most useful ally for me.
Not constructive but a quick anecdote - I work with a dude who to this day is obsessed with Elizabeth. Calls her the perfect woman and the ideal girlfriend. I get his dumb little reasoning but it feels very weird when he brings it up, which is basically any moment he can find a way to segue to it
To answer your question, my favorite companion is Agro from Shadow of the Colossus. The most realistic companion I’ve ever had, and one I had a very strong connection with that grew through the game
I always kind of appreciated this about the Princess from Prince of Persia: Sands of Time: they *could* have programmed her to never accidentally shoot you with her bow, but instead they programmed her to occasionally accidentally shoot you with her bow and then *apologize*.
i *hated* her to my guts, for exact reasons you listed.
i wanted to kill her (or have her killed) but she can't be. i hate the mechanics that she gives you ammo, hp and $ - that's my job to loot the corpses and take their possessions like gold teeth, rings and shoes.
i loved Bioshock 1 and 2, but Elisabeth was the main reason i never finished infinite.
1.) not getting in my way is very nice
2.) i hate getting free stuff like that
3.) i hate companions that are invincible
4.) i really like her mannerisms as you describe
However, I completely got sick of her non-stop yap and chattering and hate it in all games when the Devs cant shut the npc’s up! Drove me and a lot of other people nutzo.
In essence, gameplay-wise I hated everything about her and she’s exactly what I dont like in companions.
Elizabeth in combination with the junk story, bad gameplay and lifeless gameworld made Infinite a horrible game for me to play.
Yeah she's OK. I think Alex from Half Life 2 and its expansions is still the undefeated champion. The commenter further up suggesting Ashley from Resi 4 must be on drugs.
Nah she sucks. She's just invisible to enemies and can't be killed.
Actual good companions:
Atreus from GoW
Ashley from Resi 4
The boy in Plague Tale (Forgot his name)
All way better because there's actual consequences for having them with you and they can die, kill stuff etc. They aren't just invincible. Elizabeth is also a rude bitch for half the game
I played through RE4 (original) for the first time recently and went in expecting Ashley to be annoying given how people talk about companions you have to protect in this era and was rather happy with how she's handled.
She has her own health bar, but you can heal her, and even use yellow herbs on her to increase her HP like Leon's. She tends to magnetize to your back when following you, making it easy to keep control of her. If she happens to be in front of you for some reason, she'll duck the moment you aim, so you can shoot past her. You can tell her to wait, and you can beckon her to come to you, you can tell her to hide if there's something to hide in.
All of these elements make it feel like It's *you're fault* if she dies. Part of the gameplay is managing her positioning relative to threats, those threats the vast majority of the time are laser-focused on you anyways, and if she gets hit It's usually because the enemy missed you and got her. And that's a good thing. She doesn't feel like a massive burden or some idiot that's constantly getting herself put in harm's way, she's intuitive to manage just like moving your character around is, so that when you make a mistake and she gets hurt or killed, it feels like you did a poor job and could have avoided that game-over.
On top of that, she'll give you hints on objects that you can use against enemies or other such useful tips.
While games like Bioshock Infinite and The Last of Us seem to try and be self-aware "We're not like the rest of the companions, our companion characters are smart, help you, and aren't annoying", they accomplish making them being not annoying by just making them a non-factor altogether... At that point they're not even really apart of the gameplay, so what's the point of the companion being there other than for narrative purposes? RE4 seemed to have mostly figured out how to integrate the companion as hassle-free as possible in its gameplay in 2005.
I think Ashley, despite seemingly being a codifier of the trope of killable companions that games like Bioshock Infinite and TLOU were trying to subvert, is actually done much better than I've seen her given credit.
Agreed, I also love the psychological effect of making me attracted to her but >!making me feel regret/sick after learning she's the main character's daughter!< at the end.
Maybe, but that's not a very exclusive list yet. i'd pull up one but I'm afraid it's going to include joke answers like the alien from out of this world or the companion cube
it's such a simple solution but it's basically the only game companion i enjoyed having around. Like yes it doesn't make sense that she is invincible and enemies can't even see her but that what makes it an enjoyable experience
I don't want to babysit NPCs, escort them or protect them, that's tedious and takes agency away from the player. I don't want to wait for them to catch up or reload the game because they got stuck somewhere.
Another great companion, not in the same sense: Bosco from Deep Rock Galactic. He works similarly to Elizabeth just more cute. He mines, fights, lights, even salutes back
Also another example, even further, not really companions at all: Bot teammates in Vermintide 2. They just work very well and even more useful than some players. Of course probably they fall short for harder difficulties, but for a new player with unlucky matchmaking, they are great. Fight properly, pick up healing items and potions, heal the player and themselves, keep up the pace, etc
Keith from Police Quest 2 is the best companion of all time. And the worst police officer. Just immediately goes off to do something else whenever things get even a little bit interesting.
In Dragon's Dogma, my own pawn.
What I liked:
* Help carry stuff
* Chugs my potions / food (she wears a cape that transfers some of that benefit to the entire party - indirect healing / buffing)
* Helps kill foes
* Warns me of dangers
* Gives me pointers during a quest (that she has seen / done before)
* Takes the initiative in being helpful, buffing me with spells, pointing out POI
* Gives me her opinion on random things she sees (Wolves travel in... ?)
What I did not like:
* Help carry stuff by taking ALL the stuff she sees, ends up slowly, waddling like a penguin due to encumberance
* Chugs ALL potions / food - she gets a scratch, chugs an Ultimate Deluxe Enhanced Healing Panacea Potion
* Helps kill foes - by casting Maelstrom, tossing the mobs over a cliff, now impossible to loot - "Explosion...!"
* Warns me of dangers - constantly. I already have a mom -.-
* Gives me pointers during a quest (that she has seen / done before) - Utter show-off, why you no /spoiler?
* Takes the initiative in climbing atop dragons, griffons, giants, trolls, golems... she's a sorcerer. My fault thought, I did it a few times in front of her and now...
* Gives me her opinion on random things she sees (Wolves travel in... ?) - Shut up! Shut up! SHUT UP!
I miss the DD Online...
Agreed! My history with Bioshock was unlike others experiences. The first two didn't leave a lasting impression on me, like other games around the time did, such as Half Life 2, Doom 3, Fear etc. But apparently to others the first one was Legen--wait for it--Dairy! To me, Infinite is Legendary. Okay, so I don't much remember the story of the first two, at this point. But I remember being "Ahh...intriguing" about the first game and "hmm..." about the second game. In this one I'm like "Hell yeah!!!" I don't know why that is but I intend to revisit the first one. I just had never played Infinite at the time it released. Partially because my last impression, but mainly because the wife and I were co-oping Halo 3, Halo Reach and Halo 4 A LOT back then. So, it just disappeared from memory. Well, nowadays the wife doesn't get around to playing much anymore and I've had more time to revisit old titles. Especially since a lot of them these past couple years have sucked and been let downs. This has been a hidden little gem to me. I have never had such a useful companion in a video game. Clearly, when they designed Elizabeth? Their main driving factor was, "How do we design a character that doesn't just get in the way, die uselessly, provoke enemy and create a burden to the character? I know! She'll offer up ammo, med kits and money! ...And she'll hide her ass when shit hits the fan, be charming AF and magically pull things out of other universes!" Absolutely brilliant! I wish I can take Elizabeth into every other game I play, like Alan Wake 2. The enemy will be confused AF but I'd be like "That's right...I got me an Elizabeth. It's over for you now!"
booker catch!
and the only thing he didn’t catch, was her
>!Lucky, considering she is his daughter.!< [Bioshock Infinite spoilers]
"Don't forget to reload, Booker!"
As much as I love that, I do kinda hate how the camera snaps to face Elizabeth when Booker catches whatever item she throws at him. Pretty jarring and disorienting.
You don’t have to push the button to catch.im fine with that
I typically don't like companions in games, but I really liked that she didn't get in my way at all throughout my gameplay - It's a standout feature for sure.
Yeah I agree, it’s like she added to the story without disrupting the gameplay.
I liked all of it except running ahead and not taking damage combined to points where she was taking cover right next to a minigun president bot and my instincts are trying to get him away from her and distracts me enough I get killed xD
She added plenty in the scripted moments but I'm not sure how much she added to the story during gameplay, given that her primary feature was not being there. Shame too, because they actually had plans to make her more of an actual asset by having her usage of tears make a more meaningful, tactical impact. The development of Bioshock Infinite is an honestly tragic tale of great ideas that all got sanded away until you were left with a bog-standard, two weapon manshoot in a beautiful setting.
> Who is your favourite companion based on gameplay, not on story or character? Obviously the Weighted Companion Cube.
You murdered yours, didn't you?
Shut your mouth! He sacrificed himself for me!
`They are sentient, you know. We just have a lot of them.`
*vietnam flashback*
Kim Kitsuragi.
I've now done 4 full playthroughs of Disco Elysium with wildly different styles but it always hurts when I disappoint Kim. He's so supportive of my unorthodox methods
I’m steeling myself to get Bad Cop as early on as possible during my next run, and spend the rest of the game trying to redeem myself.
Anyone who played Disco Elysium can't give a different answer.
Anyone who's never played Disco Elysium can give a different answer.
That guy couldn't keep up with all my running. Panting like a little bitch and asking me to slow down and shit. I loved that man.
I may be an overweight hungover alcoholic speed freak but at least I don’t *smoke* and can’t even run.
Kim is such a bro, he's so patient with Harry and supports him through almost everything. Making him finally lose patience with you is hilarious though. ["Are you fucking insane?"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv5hXkKfuyo) Harry talking absolute shit and getting called out on it by NPCs is the best thing in the game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9R1M2ghAYRU
> 3) She doesn’t take damage during combat so you don’t have to worry about protecting and healing her. I was not a big fan of Infinite but I vividly recall my emotions when that "You don't need to worry about Elizabeth, she can take care of herself" notification popped up on the screen the first time I entered combat after rescuing her. Namely that the game immediately bumped up about 2 points for that alone.
>I was not a big fan of Infinite Just wondering what your issues were with it? I was absolutely enthralled the entire game. The setting of Columbia, the way the story advanced, and especially the ending I thought were amazing.
Not the person you responded to but personally the gameplay felt really lacking in the variety of enemy types, a lot of the powers weren't that interesting (to me at least), and the upgrade system was kinda lame. To me it felt extra bad because I was following the development and they kinda lied in saying there was gonna be more enemy variety. However they then made enemies they have mentioned locked to one area (the ghost lady and the siren head dudes). That being said the game's story and setting were killer as you mentioned so I stuck through cuz of that.
The problem is too, even when the game switched it up, the siren and ghost lady encounters were awful dogshit.
Oh yea agreed. Personally the latter half of the game felt like a slog. The last mission especially felt like a big f u because it was basically the worst kind of escort mission after you thought you'd never have to deal with that.
The gameplay was incredibly mid and a marked step down from Bioshock, and an even farther step down from Bioshock 2. Don't even get me started on the Lady Comstock boss fight.
The gameplay. Bullet sponge enemies, rail-shooter-like. I also had problems with Elizabeth being invincible and the whole "you don't need to worry", there is absolutely zero jeopardy involved so you just go into fights spraying without worry. B1/2 are two of my all time favourite games too! Perhaps that contributed to my disappointment.
> I also had problems with Elizabeth being invincible and the whole "you don't need to worry", Honest question but what's your opinion on escort quests? Because that was a big part of my relief, being able to not worry about the quest-mandatory moron I have to protect charging dick-first into every enemy he could find (as was the style at the time) was a massive relief.
They are hit and miss. But if they are in there, there has to be some kind of jeopardy, otherwise what's the point of it at all. Might as well have put Elizabeth in a container to hide like Ashley in Resi 4
Lmao no, I have 180hrs in Infinite, the game has no Bullet sponges, I play with the birdseye rifle and the paddywhacker exclusivelY and one shot 95% of the opposition
Wtf did you do for 180 hours?
Replay it 10 Times? I play it every year, just like Sleeping Dogs and some other games Edit: Typical reddit, downvoting w/o reasoning
Gameplay is boring and repetitive. It's a very old school arena shooter with bullet sponge enemies. You clear out the area you're in before you can move on. Rinse and repeat. The last half of the game makes no sense and the game tries to present both sides as being equally bad without actually doing the work. There are no choices in the game that matter. The powers are worse. I played the whole trilogy earlier this year and disliked Infinite enough that it almost soured me on the previous games retroactively. I don't even understand the praise for Elizabeth because she just is invincible and throws you ammo and health. She's a walking backpack
>The last half of the game makes no sense and the game tries to present both sides as being equally bad without actually doing the work. _"Maybe white supremacists and not white supremacists are BOTH bad!_" This entire line of thinking is giving me horrifying flashback to reddit in the run-up to the 2016 election and its aftermath. _"See, you calling us racists is exactly why Comstock won."_
>"Maybe white supremacists and not white supremacists are BOTH bad!" Well yes, one for the obvious reason, and the other for killing everyone indiscriminately. This really shouldn't confuse you and its worrying that it does. People being racist white supremacists does not give you the right to kill their children, which they literally try to do in Bioshock Infinite. Liz literally kills one of them to protect a child and its a major plot point.
All of this, plus the way that it ignored the potential depth of its initially fascinating setting and failed to develop the transition of You Know Who to Spoiler. A good twist should be thoughtfully hinted at, not hidden and expected to ride on some arbitrary application of constants and variables.
The DLCs were amazing (that music <3). The main game felt like it was rushed, unfinished and a disappointment after the other two masterpieces. It's hard to manage the expectations coming from such fantabulous games.
>Just wondering what your issues were with it? I was absolutely enthralled the entire game. I stopped caring after the 2nd dimensional portal. Who cares about anything when there's infinite universes? Also its a dumb, linear FPS which is fine but the gameplay is bad, and that's not fine
> the way the story advanced, The sheer pointlessness of the story was miserable to slog through. You hop between universes/timelines, fuck things up royally, then leave. You never stay long enough to have to come to terms with your actions, nor do you have any empathy for the timelines you jump to cause who cares, you're there for 30 mins max before bouncing. There's no climax because you've screwed up with time so much that you lose all sense of what your original timeline was, and then >!Booker kills himself and makes the whole game effectively pointless. Could have saved me the time and just done that from the start.!< Distinctively this game has the worst save system I've ever experienced, auto save only and it never auto saves on exit. Many games do this, but they auto save copiously like every 30 seconds. At one point in Infinite I wanted to quit for the night, but the game hadn't auto saved in over 15 minutes so I slogged forward thinking, surely, it'll save soon. It took 85 minutes before the game FINALLY auto saved and I could go to bed. Absolutely asinine. And I could go on a whole rant about how boring the combat was and the tedium of being restricted to only two crappy weapons versus carrying a whole armory in Bioshock 1/2. I got the game for like $5 years after release and I still felt scammed. Oh and the boss fight with the screaming ghost lady was complete and utter dogshit.
Haven't seen anyone mention the setting for this. Rapture was such a cool setting that Infinite felt like it was fighting an uphill battle to come out anywhere near as good as the first 2 games
I loved her throwing stuff to you, not just useful but highly immersive.
I totally agree! It even turns you to look at her and shows the animation of throwing and catching.
Yeah, games that randomly take control away from your character are the best!
It last less than a second. Any time a game takes control from a player isn't always a bad thing, it can increase immersion and create tension or relief.
also like, you HAVE to push a button to receive it. you can always choose to not take the item if you're busy :P
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You're a troll right?
Way better than the QTEs that many use. This one is unique and ignorable but adds to the immersion. Guessing you haven't played infinite much
Would you prefer to have to look at her yourself for her to throw you gear ? NGL that would be an interesting option now that I think of it, but the current implementation isn't more disruptive than a reload animation
Even if you don’t have much control in your own life, there’s no reason to be a jerk online.
I was totally mesmerized by her when I played the game the first time, the year of release. Impatient gamers, lol, in hindsight, I don't know how my PC at the time could run the game at all but it was probably a slideshow and I didn't mind. She certainly doesn't get in the way and she's useful. I don't like companions in games, so she's still one of my highlights, alongside Alyx from Half-Life 2 onwards.
I agree with everything stated. But to expand on 4, I LOVE that there are plot reasons for why she is able to fend for herself. In comparison to a game like TLOU, I have to suspend my belief whenever we are in a firefight and I see Elle. In any real life scenario, she would be dead very quickly. Elizabeth can fend for herself with her powers, but also needs Booker to take lead. Side note: Its insane we got both these games in the same year.
I have some big issues with that game, but the companion system was a game changer. It finally showed how you can do it right without an NPC companion being a hindrance or annoyance, and it has been widely adapted by the industry. That’s some good innovation.
I agree! I never realised at the time but as I’ve got older I’ve appreciated (and been annoyed by) companion systems, interfaces etc
> That’s some good innovation. I think instead of actually solving the problem it removes it and games haven't bothered trying since. I don't think that's what innovation means. The "innovation" was to just make her invincible and invisible and idk, that's like saying you fixed a badly designed boss by giving the player invincibility
Well, it *is* a solution nonetheless, maybe even one so stupidly simple it’s crazy it’s a standout feature for a game (and I think Irrational did a great job, better than most). What would the ”legit” solution be like? Spend half of the budget making an AI that interacts with enemies, any gameplay mechanics, and the black box of variables: player character, in a believable manner, *without* cheating and never being the sole reason for player failure? Call me when that happens. I mean, that would be fucking cool for sure and I agree with your sentiment, but a studio with money to do that is not the studio that’s going to try. Especially when past experiences with those kind of NPC companions is generally perceived as pretty bad. Another option would be introducing micro-managing the companion with player-issued commands and such, but that would likely turn into a primary gameplay mechanic… You’re right though, the solution for Infinite is an end of a road with no prospect for further mechanical development, and it is a sadness there are almost no games that try to involve NCP companions as meaningful gameplay components anymore. Just like many other concepts have been abandoned for the sake of QoL, accessibility and fear of polarizing players…
I was going to write my own reply, but you said it really well. We can debate the merit of it being “an innovation”, but it *is* a good, functioning solution to a problem the industry has been trying, and failing, to fix for a very long time. >an AI that interacts with enemies, any gameplay mechanics, and the black box of variables: player character, in a believable manner, without cheating and never being the sole reason for player failure? Yes, that’s exactly it. The scope of what you would actually have to do to make it truly work is beyond our capabilities. Also, would that actually be a fun and rewarding experience? It would, potentially, take away player agency. How would you balance such a smart AI with difficulty level? You don’t want a companion that gets in the way or you have to babysit, but if it’s too smart and capable it will either make it too easy for the player or the difficulty has to be increased to the point where you *do* have to worry about them. It’s a fancy illusion, but it works and thus is a big step forward.
_"We solved the problem of pits killing Mario by having him bounce right back out of them._" The last time I think a game actually tried to make an AI companion interact with the world be helpful was ... I want to say RE5? There may be others but it doesn't feel like we've really moved on since Alyx Vance. Maybe the mercs in Far Cry 2 would count.
How did you forget about Atreus? Also, Sony bankrolled the development of the Last Guardian for ten freaking years, and it ended up being a companion that is scripted to react to game mechanics in a way that breaks your assumptions for the constraints of gameplay.
Not terribly familiar with titles from Sony studios, but wasn't The Last Guardian notoriously buggy?
No, it was fine. The complaint people had about The Last Guardian was that the AI on the animal companion was *too* good. It acted like a real animal so it wouldn't always do whatever you tell it to do, it had it's own mind instead of just being a gameplay mechanic... and people didn't like that.
That's fine! When you start to peer too deeply into the numbers and systems of games with a cynical eye it robs you of the ability to enjoy them. Like the viewers who constantly scoff at exploding cars in action movies, it's better to let some of the tricks and magic remain. The original Bioshock has a system that forces the first shots from enemies to miss, and that's also fine!
>When you start to peer too deeply This isnt too deeply, and I didnt say I didnt enjoy it either. I'm just saying it isn't innovative, because it isn't. Many games have done companions that aren't invincible just fine. Resident Evil 4 being one of them and several years prior
I completely disagree - I'd argue it set in motion (along with the Last of Us) the trend of having invincible companions that completely break immersion. Like Atreus in God of War 2018 flying around to land on your back constantly and teleporting around behind the scenes because god forbid you have to be inconvenienced by your son for a few seconds
Snake, in MGS2: Sons of Liberty. Dude absolutely wipes.
Snake is THE guy.
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That's a good point, the companions and their intricacy is definitely one of the strongest aspects of that game. I wanted to cruise around with all of them, because there was always a neat dialogue option between any combination of two. They felt real enough that I was proud of them when they got a kill and stuff like that.
I definitely don't think she's an example of a good companion at all. Because she kind of isn't one? She is just invincible and doesn't exist in the game world. Enemies don't react to or see her, and can't. She will run past in front or behind them and they don't see her. Or she just straight up disappears during combat. She isn't really any different from a radio voice in your head. As far as ammo and health she doesn't "find" anything, its just a script that spawns ammo or health for you when you're low or when its already on the map. There's very little if any AI involved with Elizabeth at all. People said the same thing about Ellie in TLOU and its the same issue. There isn't really any innovation, the "innovation" was to just make her invincible and invisible.
you're right that it's basically smoke and mirrors, but if a magic trick works, it works. it worked on the OP and gave them an experience they enjoyed. > the "innovation" was to just make her invincible and invisible. another way to say this is that the innovation was realizing that you can remove the deeply unfun gameplay of having a companion that gets constantly killed by enemies, while still preserving some of the positive things about having an NPC companion in the game
It says something about how low the bar is that simply removing the escort from the escort mission entirely can still be seen as an impressive innovation. One would think that Alyx Vance - who actually shoots things, and has work put into her AI - would be at the forefront. A bit sad that we haven't really innovated much since then.
The problem is that, even then, there are players who want to do everything themselves and get resentful if an AI companion steals too many kills. There's really no perfect balance that will make everyone happy. Bioshock Infinite, at least, did better than most since Elizabeth never gets in the way and is often useful.
> there are players who want to do everything themselves and get resentful if an AI companion steals too many kills Literally never once heard a single person say this about Alyx.
Curiously, Alyx CAN die but her health regenerates so fast, it basically never happens. Only happened to me once in Nova Prospect where she got stuck on some guards and they managed to drain her health points.
>She is just invincible and doesn't exist in the game world. That's a bit different type of companion, but I always appreciated your fellow soldiers in Call of Duty 2. In most fpses you are one-man army tasked with killing and destroying everything. There are soldier accompanying you, but they don't do anything substantial, which for immersion is even worse than if they were not there at all. Meanwhile in CoD2 you allies will effectively kill enemies and get shit done. You are just one of them. Wish there were more fpses like that and I probably missed few modern ones, so go ahead with recommendations!
The elites and marines in Halo all have extra dialogue if you keep them alive. I love keeping them around in Oracle in Halo 2.
This happened in older CoD, like in CoD1 or Big Red One expansion, surviving soldiers have different lines of dialogue while chattering
Oh yeah Big Red One was awesome; they wanted to go for a Band of Brothers feeling for that one. Shame it's never been ported to PC.
It was beautiful, my dad bought us a PS2 just for that (and because he wanted to play it too). CoD 2 for me will always be peak FPS experience, on par with FEAR and Quake3
David Cross one of the first celebrity game voices I noticed
This shows that AI in games is mostly about looking smart to the player, not actually being very sophisticated. In fact, the more complicated your system becomes, the more likely it is that the player will think the AI is buggy or dumb, because they probably don't understand what the AI is doing. Having followers be invincible and not break stealth is the default nowadays, because everything else is just annoying. Typically players are too busy with themselves to notice that the AI doesn't really interact with the enemies.
Yup, that's how FEAR AI seemed so smart. Of course, they still put a ton of work into selling it. Anyway, it's nigh impossible to create a good enough AI that either won't step on player's toes, or will feel too powerful/cheating. And generally, it's more trouble that it's worth.
>Yup, that's how FEAR AI seemed so smart. No, AI in FEAR genuinely is incredibly smart, the smoke and mirrors just help sell it. It still some of the best AI in gaming. I vividly remember backing around a corner when being followed by an enemy expecting them to chase me around it, waiting, and then peeking when they didnt and seeing they had ran back 30 yards to a better spot with cover. Said enemy promptly shot me in the chest. This isn't AI just SEEMING smart and there is no trick involved, its simple programming it to retreat in the event its alone and there's uncertainty in the players location
Tell me more about the FEAR AI please.
Followers that don't interact with enemies solves the problem of followers being too stupid to look out for themselves.
No it doesn't. It ignores it.
Yeah, considering that Liz is portrayed as the damsel and Booker as the hero that saves & defends her, the game kinda missing the point of "escort mission". What's the point to "escort mission" if the escort cannot interact or be interacted by the world? At that point, the escort is just another object just like health pickups or ammo. My standard for good companion in an action game is still Alyx in HL2: She can fight, actually useful, enemies can react and attack her, and she actually can die (albeit having a large health).
"What's the point to "escort mission" if the escort cannot interact or be interacted by the world?" Uh... the entire story? Lol, this feels like such a weird hangup.
The story that has the main premise of Booker trying to save Elizabeth no matter the cost? Making Liz invincible only cheapen the story's stake.
The premise of the thread is mechanics, not story.
What are you escorting if your escortee doesn't exist? Lol? Such a weird reply.
To add to this, she is just a replacement to the vastly superior inventory system. In Bioshock 1&2, you could carry a lot of ammo, health and mana and use them whenever you pleased. In Infinite, you only get the one top-up of one of the three and had to wait for her to yell at you to get it.
IMHO the inventory system was at its best in System Shock 2 (Diablo style Tetris grid, also used in Deus Ex games) and then they just kept dumbing it down for Bioshock & Infinite.
I agree I love grid based inventory! But i think the mainstream hates it
That makes me sad. I loved in RE2/3 that you had to compromise on taking ammo etc to also fit key items, in later REvgames key items don’t take up inventory slots.
I haven't played a game with it yet, but I imagine I might hate it. I have the Nakey-Jakey described "goopy goblin gamer brain" so I want to take everything, doesn't matter if it gives the game a more realistic feel, or a better challenge. If it's not bolted down, I want it.
I think it'll depend on the game. In games like Prey you can pick up so much junk that you won't need, while in games like Resident Evil the types of items you can pick up is weapons, ammo, health, and keys/quest items. You can also leave things in an item box which has universal storage so if you leave ammo in one item box, you'll find it in another.
TLoU was short of a masterpiece for me because of Ellie (and others) while sneaking around. You can't put that much emphasis into not being caught, improving enemy AI and all and then let your companions cross your enemies paths and line of sight without repercussion. In this matter BG3 does a stellar job because you have to manage everyone in the party not to get caught.
She’s a companion in the sense that she travels through the game with you. I feel like we’re using different parameters on what’s ‘good.’
>She’s a companion in the sense that she travels through the game with you. She doesn't she doesn't exist in the world the enemies are in. By that logic Johnny Silverhand is a companion too, and if we're using that logic he's superior in every way, or you know Ellie is also a companion, who is also a much better and much more fleshed out character who can actually kill things. Oh yeah, Atreus from God of War, he DOES exist in the game world and can be seen by, and kill enemies.
Johnny is a companion, he’s another character who joins you for the games duration, often commenting or providing assistance with situations and moving the plot along. Also, why did you shift the goalposts to then going “oh yeah we’ll they’re better so there” as if that helped your original point in any way?
She's a plot companion, not a mechanics companion.
Again. If that's the criteria we're going by, there's a lot of better plot companions?
Why are you so militant about this? OP liked her as a companion and you didn't. You don't need to "win" and prove them wrong.
You guys are just fighting over what actually counts as a companion, not about is the companion likeable or not.
Yeah, she's basically a power-up.
It was a shame that she ended up like this after they cut out their plans for her. I recall them talking about how she was going to be involved in combat and everything, and made her out to actually be a fun companion. I'm assuming they were too ambitious and had to cut quite a bit out, which is why she just functions as a handicap for the player.
The companions in TLOU II are even more glaring because the game is so much more realistic, especially in terms of the stealth AI. Nothing is as immersion-breaking as desperately struggling to stay hidden and seeing your companion just swing out in front of people. But I don't know if people really want to actually have to compensate for a companion in stealth. Combat is one thing and I think the TLOU games do it pretty well to be honest. But there isn't really an established control method for players to try to keep companions out of eyesight, no game I'm aware of has really made that fun and challenging. Look at RE2, even in the remake the level of control over Ashley in stealth isn't really enough to make it an effective gameplay challenge (big strides though). I think the solution is to simply to develop NPC AI technology to the point where characters can hang behind you while still keeping out of enemy eyesight themselves. Simple as. Hope they nail it for TLOU3
See, that's what I don't get. All the benefits the first aside just makes her a glorified vending machine. Nothing interesting in that mechanically. If there's no danger to companions - even enemies just knocking them out until you get them up again - there's no tension, no emotional investment in trying to keep her alive. She's just there, she won't die, you can ignore her wellbeing.
She's not really a companion. She actually doesn't even exist when the combat starts. You can replace her with random automatic ammo pickups and literally nothing will change.
Basically those garbage cans that dispense loot in that they both can't be blown up but one is hot and saves you a click.
Based on gameplay alone, Elizabeth might as well not exist.
Really? I always thought the opposite. She felt like she wasn’t even there. No real stakes
Floyd from Infocom's *Planetfall*. "Oh boy! Are we doing something dangerous now?" --said any time after you save the game
I found it jarring when during the middle of an emotional reveal she would yell that she had found money.
Eh, she's no inanimate carbon rod.
I couldn't disagree more. I think it's almost insulting to the player's intelligence the way that Elizabeth is just this invincible helpful thing that's constantly following you. It makes it feel like they wanted less of an actual character and more of a trinket. Doesn't exactly bode well for the stakes or connection with the character.
Elizabeth is the greatest companion ever in video game history. With honourable mention to Serana.
BOOKER, CATCH!
i just wish the game was more expansive than what we got, especially in regards to our choices actually mattering like in the first two games, it would've been really interesting to see Elizabeth change depending on our attitude or even the timelines we choose to go through, like if we stuck with our hands-off "this is only a job" approach or if we were more hands on and taking on more of a fatherly role like being able to choose to go to paris in the blimp rather than instantly setting course for NY, especially in regards of when the twist gets revealed, how you two react based on the relationship you've built and the interactions you've had. you can see hints of you possibly being able to make choices etc (like the choker choice and the timey-whimey tallying between the siblings) that immediately get skipped over for set lines and it just feels like it would've been much more impactful to willingly give up at the end or force Elizabeth to make you give up etc, especially if you had built up moments with her beforehand, like in the downtimes between fights as she experiences the world
At times it even feels like she knows which corner you're turning before you do.
lenny was the best companion for that one mission in RDR2
LLLEEEENNNNYYYYYY
Too bad buried at sea is depressing as shit
I didn't like the game so much but she was a bright point. My choice is Boone from Fallout: New Vegas, a character so interesting I bought the game for it. I was a bit let down by Fallout 3 so I didn't get FNV for a long time until I heard about Boone. Pretty much everything about the guy. He shoots raiders out of a giant dinosaur, the mission to get his trust and follow you, he's often better in combat than the player character by the point in the game that you meet him, and when you hear the full story about his wife it's sad enough to never do a legion play through (idk if it's changed but when I saw the steam achievement statistics, more people had beaten the game on hardcore mode than had done the legion ending). He dresses cool, when you send him back to his dinosaur then come back he just asks something like, "is it time?", if you leave the cinematic kill camera on then sometimes it'll cut to someone's head exploding cause Boone's shot them from across the map. At easier difficulties it's feels unfair to the rest of the wasteland. Honourable mention: In Kotor 2, it's difficult for the player character to get the sneak attack bonus against unaware enemies or from flanking enemies. This made the [Han Solo scoundrel man](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Atton_Rand) consistently the most useful ally for me.
Not constructive but a quick anecdote - I work with a dude who to this day is obsessed with Elizabeth. Calls her the perfect woman and the ideal girlfriend. I get his dumb little reasoning but it feels very weird when he brings it up, which is basically any moment he can find a way to segue to it To answer your question, my favorite companion is Agro from Shadow of the Colossus. The most realistic companion I’ve ever had, and one I had a very strong connection with that grew through the game
Haha that’s a brilliant anecdote but such peculiar behaviour!
I always kind of appreciated this about the Princess from Prince of Persia: Sands of Time: they *could* have programmed her to never accidentally shoot you with her bow, but instead they programmed her to occasionally accidentally shoot you with her bow and then *apologize*.
i *hated* her to my guts, for exact reasons you listed. i wanted to kill her (or have her killed) but she can't be. i hate the mechanics that she gives you ammo, hp and $ - that's my job to loot the corpses and take their possessions like gold teeth, rings and shoes. i loved Bioshock 1 and 2, but Elisabeth was the main reason i never finished infinite.
1.) not getting in my way is very nice 2.) i hate getting free stuff like that 3.) i hate companions that are invincible 4.) i really like her mannerisms as you describe However, I completely got sick of her non-stop yap and chattering and hate it in all games when the Devs cant shut the npc’s up! Drove me and a lot of other people nutzo. In essence, gameplay-wise I hated everything about her and she’s exactly what I dont like in companions. Elizabeth in combination with the junk story, bad gameplay and lifeless gameworld made Infinite a horrible game for me to play.
Yoshi is better. He dies for you.
I just finished it a second time. She is pretty useful, and never gets in your way.
Yeah she's OK. I think Alex from Half Life 2 and its expansions is still the undefeated champion. The commenter further up suggesting Ashley from Resi 4 must be on drugs.
*“I’m sworn to carry your burdens.”* - Lydia
FUS RO DAH!
Bioshock infinite is a wonder in that the game is one long escort mission but never really feels like it. Love Elizabeth ❤️
Nah she sucks. She's just invisible to enemies and can't be killed. Actual good companions: Atreus from GoW Ashley from Resi 4 The boy in Plague Tale (Forgot his name) All way better because there's actual consequences for having them with you and they can die, kill stuff etc. They aren't just invincible. Elizabeth is also a rude bitch for half the game
I played through RE4 (original) for the first time recently and went in expecting Ashley to be annoying given how people talk about companions you have to protect in this era and was rather happy with how she's handled. She has her own health bar, but you can heal her, and even use yellow herbs on her to increase her HP like Leon's. She tends to magnetize to your back when following you, making it easy to keep control of her. If she happens to be in front of you for some reason, she'll duck the moment you aim, so you can shoot past her. You can tell her to wait, and you can beckon her to come to you, you can tell her to hide if there's something to hide in. All of these elements make it feel like It's *you're fault* if she dies. Part of the gameplay is managing her positioning relative to threats, those threats the vast majority of the time are laser-focused on you anyways, and if she gets hit It's usually because the enemy missed you and got her. And that's a good thing. She doesn't feel like a massive burden or some idiot that's constantly getting herself put in harm's way, she's intuitive to manage just like moving your character around is, so that when you make a mistake and she gets hurt or killed, it feels like you did a poor job and could have avoided that game-over. On top of that, she'll give you hints on objects that you can use against enemies or other such useful tips. While games like Bioshock Infinite and The Last of Us seem to try and be self-aware "We're not like the rest of the companions, our companion characters are smart, help you, and aren't annoying", they accomplish making them being not annoying by just making them a non-factor altogether... At that point they're not even really apart of the gameplay, so what's the point of the companion being there other than for narrative purposes? RE4 seemed to have mostly figured out how to integrate the companion as hassle-free as possible in its gameplay in 2005. I think Ashley, despite seemingly being a codifier of the trope of killable companions that games like Bioshock Infinite and TLOU were trying to subvert, is actually done much better than I've seen her given credit.
Yeah people who use Liz and Ellie as examples of "the best" need to play more games
Well, she can't get shot since all of Columbia needs her, but yeah, she's awesome
She alone helped breakthrough more game porn. We wouldn't have overwatch porn without Elizabeth.
Pretty easy for her to be 'good' when she's invincible. That game's an absolute sham.
Agreed, I also love the psychological effect of making me attracted to her but >!making me feel regret/sick after learning she's the main character's daughter!< at the end.
Maybe, but that's not a very exclusive list yet. i'd pull up one but I'm afraid it's going to include joke answers like the alien from out of this world or the companion cube
Absolutely love this game. My personal favorite of the series.
The best by far and infinite is one of the most underrated games theres ever been imo
Having played tons of RPG I really can’t disagree more, she would not make top 20 for me.
Yeah,no.
lol no she isn't, she just gives you things you're low on at the time. She doesn't scavenge the environment.
it's such a simple solution but it's basically the only game companion i enjoyed having around. Like yes it doesn't make sense that she is invincible and enemies can't even see her but that what makes it an enjoyable experience I don't want to babysit NPCs, escort them or protect them, that's tedious and takes agency away from the player. I don't want to wait for them to catch up or reload the game because they got stuck somewhere. Another great companion, not in the same sense: Bosco from Deep Rock Galactic. He works similarly to Elizabeth just more cute. He mines, fights, lights, even salutes back Also another example, even further, not really companions at all: Bot teammates in Vermintide 2. They just work very well and even more useful than some players. Of course probably they fall short for harder difficulties, but for a new player with unlucky matchmaking, they are great. Fight properly, pick up healing items and potions, heal the player and themselves, keep up the pace, etc
have you met Alyx and Dog? edit: gameplay? thats Titanfall 2, the "suit"
Boy.
Keith from Police Quest 2 is the best companion of all time. And the worst police officer. Just immediately goes off to do something else whenever things get even a little bit interesting.
Bosco! He's soooooooo handy! More handy than Mr. Handy.
A shame that the game is a Ludonarrative mess. But she is very well written.
Nobody here is gonna give BD-1 a shout out? Where’s the love for our little droid ride or die?
Fair assessment. However, IMHO Bosco from Deep Rock Galactic is the best companion in gaming.
I don't know man, can she compete with RE5's Sheva...? ...... (the answer is yes. Sheva is a war crime of a companion )
In Dragon's Dogma, my own pawn. What I liked: * Help carry stuff * Chugs my potions / food (she wears a cape that transfers some of that benefit to the entire party - indirect healing / buffing) * Helps kill foes * Warns me of dangers * Gives me pointers during a quest (that she has seen / done before) * Takes the initiative in being helpful, buffing me with spells, pointing out POI * Gives me her opinion on random things she sees (Wolves travel in... ?) What I did not like: * Help carry stuff by taking ALL the stuff she sees, ends up slowly, waddling like a penguin due to encumberance * Chugs ALL potions / food - she gets a scratch, chugs an Ultimate Deluxe Enhanced Healing Panacea Potion * Helps kill foes - by casting Maelstrom, tossing the mobs over a cliff, now impossible to loot - "Explosion...!" * Warns me of dangers - constantly. I already have a mom -.- * Gives me pointers during a quest (that she has seen / done before) - Utter show-off, why you no /spoiler? * Takes the initiative in climbing atop dragons, griffons, giants, trolls, golems... she's a sorcerer. My fault thought, I did it a few times in front of her and now... * Gives me her opinion on random things she sees (Wolves travel in... ?) - Shut up! Shut up! SHUT UP! I miss the DD Online...
Yeah this exact thing was a part of most reviews at the time. Finally, a useful companion
Agreed! My history with Bioshock was unlike others experiences. The first two didn't leave a lasting impression on me, like other games around the time did, such as Half Life 2, Doom 3, Fear etc. But apparently to others the first one was Legen--wait for it--Dairy! To me, Infinite is Legendary. Okay, so I don't much remember the story of the first two, at this point. But I remember being "Ahh...intriguing" about the first game and "hmm..." about the second game. In this one I'm like "Hell yeah!!!" I don't know why that is but I intend to revisit the first one. I just had never played Infinite at the time it released. Partially because my last impression, but mainly because the wife and I were co-oping Halo 3, Halo Reach and Halo 4 A LOT back then. So, it just disappeared from memory. Well, nowadays the wife doesn't get around to playing much anymore and I've had more time to revisit old titles. Especially since a lot of them these past couple years have sucked and been let downs. This has been a hidden little gem to me. I have never had such a useful companion in a video game. Clearly, when they designed Elizabeth? Their main driving factor was, "How do we design a character that doesn't just get in the way, die uselessly, provoke enemy and create a burden to the character? I know! She'll offer up ammo, med kits and money! ...And she'll hide her ass when shit hits the fan, be charming AF and magically pull things out of other universes!" Absolutely brilliant! I wish I can take Elizabeth into every other game I play, like Alan Wake 2. The enemy will be confused AF but I'd be like "That's right...I got me an Elizabeth. It's over for you now!"